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Barry Stagner: How Concerned Should The Church Be About AI? · Worldview Matters With David Fiorazo

• 0:00
  Hey, friends, family and Christ. Thank you for watching, listening, and sharing the podcast today. Great guest, very staggers with us.
• 0:07
  But I want to ask you about this. Are you concerned or how concerned should the church be about AI?
• 0:12
  In the not too distant future, you may find yourself in a church service where songs have been written by AI, where prayers have been written by AI.
• 0:22
  And even the pastor's sermon that he uses is from AI. Is that a problem?
• 0:27
  We'll talk about that plus a brand new devotional from Pastor Barry in Amir Sarafati that's coming up on World View Matters.
• 0:36
  Welcome to World View Matters, discussing controversial issues, discerning current events, defending biblical Christianity.
• 0:46
  No topic, off limits. And now here's your host, David Firazzo.
• 0:53
  All right, brothers and sisters, we're going to jump right into this because we're getting close to Christmas and we just want to get some important stories out there and get pastors perspective on it from Barry Stagner.
• 1:04
  Brother, so good to see you. Thanks for your time today. Great to be with you again, David.
• 1:09
  All right, I want to give your website, of course, friends, Barry Stagner.com. And where is the best place to get the brand new devotional until he comes?
• 1:20
  Well, Amazon is a great place for Christian book distributors, I think.
• 1:25
  There's also a Christian book.com has been running a sale. And David, this, this has just blown all of our minds to receptivity to this particular devotion because, you know, devotions, the devotional are, you know, kind of a niche type audience.
• 1:43
  But this thing, as a matter of fact, right as we came on, I got a text from a mirror that the devotional is number one on publishers weekly.
• 1:53
  And, you know, this is just unheard of for a Bible based devotional. So we're very, very excited.
• 1:59
  Yeah, praise God. There's a need for it. Yeah, there's a need for it. And I didn't give the subtitle 365 daily devotional as we await his return.
• 2:09
  And Barry, let's, before we jump into AI and a couple of the things I wanted to ask you about today, let's talk about the season that we're in, meaning Christmas season. But as we await his return, we know it could happen at any time.
• 2:21
  But I think a lot of people with all the news and the junk that's bombarding us, some have grown weary. And I would just love your pastures encouragement on the importance, not only this devotional, but just keeping our minds on seeking first his kingdom and just staying in the word.
• 2:37
  But also keeping everything in perspective when it comes to what's happening in our country and around the world.
• 2:43
  You know, David, it's interesting because I think the solution for, you know, getting caught up in the season in the, you know, worldly sense and all the gifting and, and the other things that take up and consume our time Black Friday.
• 2:59
  And the things of that nature is telling people about Jesus. I mean, that's the remedy at any time of year because when you start talking about the Lord, you know, the Holy Spirit is obviously going to engage in the conversation, inspire you to say things.
• 3:13
  And excuse me, David, I think, you know, especially at this time of year, I've been encouraging our church. People are expecting you to invite them to church. People are expecting you to talk about the birth of Christ.
• 3:25
  And so let's meet that need and that expectation and tell people about the Lord. And you know, again, you know, just looking at all the things that we're being inundated with right now, the tips, things typical of the season.
• 3:40
  Again, the focus is all about Jesus. And we had our churches annual Christmas conference concert last night. And you know, it's kind of interesting because I just watched a kind of a expose on further proof that the shroud of terrain is the face of Jesus.
• 3:59
  And now they've incorporated in kind of to segue into the other subject. They said, now we've had AI created three dimensional figure from the shot of turn of the face of Jesus.
• 4:12
  The interesting thing about that is he had a full beard. There wasn't a mark on him. And so, you know, I had to comment on there. I just couldn't not say anything is said, well, the Bible says Jesus beard was ripped from his face.
• 4:24
  Yeah.
• 4:25
  He was blindside punched by the Roman soldiers had a crown of thorns pressed on on his head. This is not Jesus. Jesus. Visage, according to Michael was more than any man barely recognizable as a human.
• 4:38
  So we're getting all this stuff. And we have to stay on point. Yeah, the story of Christmas is a story of Jesus.
• 4:45
  Yeah, the word became flesh. And yeah, Mel Gibson's the passion of the Christ did probably one of the best jobs of depicting the brutality that Jesus endured and the torture he endured and the just he was just a bloody mess.
• 5:01
  But let's talk before we jump into AI. I wanted to ask you, has there been an uptick in church attendance where you're concerned where in your church there? I know there's Bible sales. There's other things that are really increasing since the assassination of Charlie Kirk.
• 5:19
  And I don't want people to forget. We're in a busy Christmas season. There's all kinds of stuff. We're looking at Islam and China and what's happening in our own government and just the left and their agendas. But we aren't a very interesting season where the church and free speech in the first amendment is concerned in America.
• 5:38
  But more people are going to church and are maybe curious or open about spiritual things. What are you seeing Barry?
• 5:46
  Well, the interesting thing about that, David, is that many of the people that are showing up at church are Gen Z. Young people are saying the emptiness of many of the things that have been happening in the church.
• 5:58
  And the interesting trend among that particular each bracket is they're headed for more liturgical or orthodox type settings. And that's because, you know, the really what the church is concentration has been over the past 30 to 40 years has been almost to be more worldly and to set like a.
• 6:20
  You know, almost a party atmosphere in the church and lasers and smoke machines and fog machines and all this other stuff. And you know, it seems like Gen Z is saying, you know, we can get that anywhere.
• 6:31
  We need something that we can sink our teeth into something more traditional. Something that is, you know, got an element of reverence to it.
• 6:40
  So we are seeing an influx of people at the church and I will say very happily the majority of them are young people.
• 6:48
  That's what we've seen college campuses and across the country, very interesting movements around youth. Maybe you might say pockets of revival.
• 6:59
  And, you know, so we want to kind of work along with the Holy Spirit and we can't manufacture revival, but we certainly can see God moving and a new openness to spiritual things.
• 7:11
  I hope that increases. And I think as you said at the beginning, Pastor Barry, I think this is an opportunity for the church to invite people, especially around Christmas time, but also to be more open about, you know, opportunities we have to just find that in when we talk in our everyday lives.
• 7:28
  With people when we're out and about and I think we could see things that might surprise us, but yeah, I think the youth want some structure.
• 7:37
  I think they've seen so much chaos. I think they want some maybe maybe peace and stability. Maybe that's another reason maybe they might be going the Orthodox route. What do you think?
• 7:49
  Well, it is interesting. You know, you mentioned revival David and you know that word only appears in the Bible one time and it's an Ezra chapter nine where he is praying that the Lord would give them a measure of revival in the midst of their, you know, the return from the Babylonian captivity.
• 8:06
  But the interesting thing about that is the word revival means to renew the validity. And I think that's exactly what this generation is looking for.
• 8:16
  The valid work of the church and communicating truth, hope, the love of God and all these other things that have been replaced with, you know, a lot of things that you listen.
• 8:26
  I like a wonderful time of worship. Our church has an incredible band and they love Jesus and they sing scripture and, you know, all those things are wonderful.
• 8:40
  But, you know, when there's no content, you know, to the sermon other than something to make you feel better or, you know, tell you how to have a health and prosperity and all those other things, you know, you can get that from Tony Robbins.
• 8:54
  And what people are looking for today is something concrete, something that helps them get through the trials and tribulations of life. And that comes from the word of God exclusively.
• 9:07
  Yeah, and there's another indirect plug for your devotional to have something every morning. We've gone through so many different devotional as you know, we need, we do need something new.
• 9:17
  And it's good that you guys came out with us at this time. I think a lot of people are hungry for something that'll kind of get them centered in the morning.
• 9:25
  So, before we get to AI Pastor Barry, what else maybe after looking back at this year concerns you as a pastor or maybe concerns you about the church.
• 9:37
  Could it be Islam? Could it be anti-Semitism, false teachings? Could it be China? What are your thoughts? What else do you see that's a concern of yours or something you can take away from this year?
• 9:50
  I'll have to check the all the above box. I think all those things are concerning. You know, for me, my heart has always been to just rightly divide the word of God.
• 10:02
  You know, hear a little there, a little precept upon precept and just, you know, focus on the scripture. And I had a chance not too long ago to speak to a group of pastors.
• 10:11
  And I reminded them that there's a huge difference in teaching from the Bible and teaching the Bible, you know, because basically if you're going to isolate a scripture outside of its context, you can almost make it say anything.
• 10:24
  But when we follow the model that's set for us in scripture, then we can, you know, basically, as Paul said, I am innocent of the blood of all men because I have not shunned to declare to you the whole council of God.
• 10:37
  So, you know, my heart is always that, you know, the pastors in church are just teaching the Bible, not just from it. And, you know, of course we have concerns with Islam watching the things that are happening over in Europe.
• 10:52
  We see places that are, you know, pretty soon we're going to have the Islamic State of England, France, all these other things that are that are happening under the banner of immigration, which is really infiltration.
• 11:05
  And watching that happen here in the States. And, you know, you mentioned the first amendment earlier, David. And I think, you know, one of the other concerns is that, you know, we don't follow the Constitution here in the United States anymore.
• 11:19
  Because, you know, you and I, I think, are old enough to remember days where it was illegal to be a communist. And you couldn't hold to communist type resets. And, you know, there was some overstepping in the bounds there historically as well.
• 11:33
  But the reality is, you know, immigrants, when they used to come to this country, they came to this country because of what this country stood for. Now we have many immigrants who come to this country who want to change it into the type of country that they fled from.
• 11:47
  It just doesn't make any sense. So, I think all of those things are of a concern. And you know, we as a church are the only group on the planet that has the truth that can change lives and eternal destinies for the better.
• 12:01
  So, we have to, we have to state a course. Yeah, we're seeing some very concerning things. We've got to be grounded in the word of God. I'm thankful that you mentioned what you did about teaching through the scriptures and verse by verse because we Christians have to need to, we need to be prepared because I mean, a communist got elected in New York. We've got mosques in Texas. We've got whatever is happening in Minneapolis. You know, St Paul, we've got Dearborn Michigan. We got things around the country that that should be eye opening. But as you said, I mean, immigration has been a problem.
• 12:30
  I don't know what's going to happen. I'm glad the Trump administration is doing what they're doing. But yeah, we just have to be on guard friends and the word of God has to be our stability.
• 12:42
  So, I wanted to ask you about AI. Time magazine just came out with the word of the year. A person of the year, I should say, I'm thinking about the Oxford dictionary.
• 12:54
  Time came out with the person of the year. And it is the architects of AI. So this is their 2025 person of the year.
• 13:04
  The magazine sites the potential when the potential of artificial intelligence, roared into view and has no turning back.
• 13:12
  It says for delivering the age of thinking machines for wowing and worrying humanity for transforming the present and transcending the possible, the architects of AI are times 2025 person of the year.
• 13:30
  They said in a social media post. So that's, that's interesting. Everybody's got their, their at least one eye on AI. But some people are recognizing this. What are your thoughts on that, Barry?
• 13:44
  Because I already read to you before we started the podcast, how AI pastors are using it, worship teams might be using it. And this is a very dangerous and concerning time. But I know there are some advantages to it. How do we find a bounce perspective on AI?
• 14:00
  Well, this is a very sensitive subject for myself that Pastor Jack gives in a mirror because we've all had videos created that have been put on YouTube that thousands of people have watched that weren't us. Wow.
• 14:14
  The conversation supposedly that took place between a mirror and I, Pastor Jack, there's one recently where, you know, basically it says shows a picture of Jack that was created by AI where he just, he almost looks demonic.
• 14:29
  So angry and mean and hateful. And it wasn't him. And, you know, all the content was AI generated. And, you know, so this is a real thing. This is something to be concerned about. And you know, there's no question in my mind, David, that this is all
• 14:45
  repertoire for what's going to happen during the tribulation. You've got revelation 13 that talks about an image that seems to be alive and has breath breed then to it. And I think most likely obviously that's figurative.
• 14:59
  But the reality is there is a generation now where you've got 75% of Gen Zers today said that they would be interested in a romantic relationship with an AI created being.
• 15:15
  There's no real person there. And basically what they're what they're saying is is what they want is that relationship where the other party agrees with everything they say. And there's never any conflict and they just get along fine.
• 15:28
  And, you know, it's just, it's an artificial relationship created by artificial intelligence. So, yeah. And I, you know, we've already had a test drive, so to speak in Germany where there was an AI created
• 15:42
  personage and an AI created message that was spoken in a church and everybody sat and watched it on a screen. And some of the comments were, you know, almost comical. Some were, oh, it's just wonderful. It was a wonderful service. And then, you know, another one, one comment I remember particular somebody said, you know, it just, it just didn't seem real.
• 16:07
  It's like, well, no kidding. That's because it wasn't, you know, but I mean, that's, that's where we're at. Yeah, we want to talk more about this. We got to take a brief pause with Pastor Barry Stegner. By the way, I just want to mention his other book. And that is called The Time of the Signs.
• 16:22
  And, Barry, I used to say this years ago when it comes to Photoshop, I would say, you know, I'd warn people that the people that follow me or my podcast. If you see something where I'm doing something immoral or unbiblical, chances are it might not be me. Same with you, Jack Hibbs, Amir.
• 16:40
  What they're doing now, it's not Photoshop. Now it's AI. So they can take our voice. They can take, they can create a video. So friends, you know, the people we have on this podcast are grounded and we're sound doctrine in the biblical worldview. But you're going to see things probably that are going to make you think, wow, did someone fall away from God? No, just so that's be discerning. We'll be right back on World View Matters.
• 17:06
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• 17:15
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• 17:59
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• 18:17
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• 19:28
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• 20:06
  Alright, Pastor Barry back back to the fun stuff right what we're talking about where where AI is concerned. I don't want to close the door on that topic too quickly because I think this caught a lot of us maybe a little off guard in the past couple years.
• 20:20
  It seems like this is a very real issue that not only Americans or just people but the church needs to be concerned about because some pastors and I've been disappointed to hear. Yeah, my pastor got a sermon on AI and it sounded it was great.
• 20:38
  So I guess you don't need to really be led by the Holy Spirit to go verse by verse just type in a topic right what are your concerns other than that or maybe that is one of your concerns for the church in America when it comes to AI.
• 20:51
  Well, it's funny you mentioned that David because when chat GPT came out and other platforms that enable you to do what you just said just type in something say give me a thousand words on that subject and within seconds it pops out.
• 21:06
  Yeah, and I remember telling our staff. I think there's a lot of pastors whose sermons are going to change rather dramatically in the very future and I think what you said is the real key because chat GPT does not have the Holy Spirit.
• 21:21
  And God asked something that he wants to say through us as individuals as we apply the things that we have learned and David right now at the church we're going through the book of Hebrews which in our years as a church I think this is our third trip through the book of Hebrews specifically because it's so rich and so deep.
• 21:40
  And the interesting thing that I have found is that each time I teach it I find new things and you know chat GPT isn't going to do that it's going to search and come up with the same thing every time it's not going to be led by the spirit to talk to the people about the things that are going on culturally.
• 21:58
  The things that individuals may be going through and you know all the depth and wisdom of the Holy Spirit is really going to be absent and even though the content may be organized and well structured and to a degree even accurate.
• 22:13
  It is going to lack the inspiration of the spirit that allows you and I think this is one of my favorite parts of preaching and you know it's and I ask God for it.
• 22:24
  And my wife and I talk about it often and that's the stuff that's not on the page. I spent a lot of time in preparation wanting to make sure that I'm well studied and well prepared when it's time go time so to speak.
• 22:35
  But the stuff I treasure more than anything I think is the stuff that's in the moment that God is speaking to somebody in a seat things that they needed to hear that I didn't know they needed to hear.
• 22:47
  And yet the Holy Spirit is moving in that capacity so you can't get that to a download or a chat GPT inspired maybe that's portraits words not inspired.
• 23:00
  Yeah, sermon.
• 23:01
  Yeah, it's it's a serious concern.
• 23:04
  Yeah.
• 23:05
  Well, keep an eye on that, friends.
• 23:08
  This is all, you know, there's all prophetic implications when it comes to a revelation 13 and other things, Mark of the Beast, AI technology.
• 23:15
  But I want to jump to we've just got four minutes left, Barry.
• 23:19
  We talked about free speech. We know what happened to Charlie Kirk.
• 23:22
  A lot of us I just said Seth Gruberon the podcast a lot of people are more bold than I am and a lot of people are out there in public more than I am.
• 23:30
  We believe the same thing the true God Jesus is the only way it is the biblical world view and some call that hate speech particularly when it comes to sexual issues sexuality.
• 23:44
  And this disturbing is a lot of surveys that have come out now since the assassination of Charlie Kirk more than 90% of college students believe that words are violence.
• 23:57
  I'm thinking wow, so they not only disagree with what you say, but if they think your words are violent, how do they think they should respond to that?
• 24:05
  Baring your thoughts on that issue.
• 24:08
  Well, obviously an act of violence is a criminal act and they want it prosecuted and punished for saying things that hurt somebody else's feelings.
• 24:17
  And this is one of those strangest things I think that has come down the bike in recent years, David.
• 24:23
  And that is that there's no room to disagree agreeably anymore.
• 24:28
  If you disagree, you're a hater. You disagree with the moral position of the unsafe.
• 24:33
  You're a bigot and homophobic and all these other phrases that they'd like to throw at us for believing what the Bible says.
• 24:42
  David, I think one of the interesting things that we have to remember as Christians is that persecution is what spread the gospel in the early church more than anything else.
• 24:52
  Yes, Christian on the run, but they took the gospel with them.
• 24:56
  And you know, this is one of the important things I think about the what Jesus said in the parable of the sewer.
• 25:02
  He's got four types of soil, soil that he mentions, you know, the hard ground, the thorny ground, you know, the wayside and then the good soil.
• 25:10
  But what we as Christians need to remember, especially today is there's only one seed that wasn't a seed specific to the soil or the needs or desires of the soil.
• 25:23
  It was one gospel that was sewn to all types of soil. So we cannot abandon what it is we've been called to go to the world, reach the gospel to every creature.
• 25:34
  Yeah, and it's really out of our hands how they receive it and how they determine what our words are and what words are hateful, but this is where we're at.
• 25:42
  I guess Barry, it just surprises us a little bit maybe being in the country that we're in with our constitution and the First Amendment and how we were founded to where we are today.
• 25:52
  It's a little disappointing, not maybe not surprising, I should say, disappointing though that we are here.
• 25:59
  And that tells me that the church hasn't done a great job of teaching their congregations, equipping the saints and being salt and light, something we don't hear emphasized enough in my opinion.
• 26:11
  That means getting outside of church walls Monday through Saturday and having an impact and speaking sharing the gospel, but also addressing these these cultural controversial, you might say, issues that some deem political, but they are moral issues that the Bible speaks to all of these.
• 26:29
  Barry, in the last minute, just some encouragement for we head into Christmas for our viewers and listeners.
• 26:36
  Well, David, like you just mentioned, I think a couple of things have flipped in previous generation or recent generation and that is the understanding of roles of responsibility.
• 26:47
  I think if we're going to look at the biblical model, the everyday believer goes out and leads people to Christ and then they invite them to church so the pastor can teach them how to live for him.
• 26:57
  But it seems like the responsibility of preaching to gospel has been laid on the shoulders exclusively almost to the pastor where it's supposed to be all of us who are sharing the gospel.
• 27:07
  So in this season, I would encourage your listeners and viewers, tell people about Jesus, tell them about the child and lay in a manger and why he did that.
• 27:17
  And you know, I was mentioning and have mentioned of late several times that the Christmas story and the Easter story are the same story.
• 27:26
  You can't separate the two. That's why he came into the world to save centers. Amen.
• 27:32
  Brother, thank you and friends again, the devotional by Amir and Barry until he comes.
• 27:39
  It's 365 daily devotions as we await his return. Brother, thank you. Good to see you, Amir Christmas.
• 27:44
  Amir Christmas to you, David. Thanks for having me.
• 27:47
  Friends, God bless you and as always, keep speaking the truth about things that matter.