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Grit, Growth, and Building Something That Lasts with Gloria Campos · Tits, Wit, & Grit

• Sara Frasca: Well, hello ladies. So excited to see you this afternoon and ⁓ ready to kick off Tits, Wit and Grit. So let's dive right in today. Laura, let's tee up our guest Laura: Awesome, great. Drum roll please. Our first guest today, Gloria Campos. Gloria Campos: Yeah. Laura: Gloria is a chief operating officer and firm administrator at McCraw law firm out of Texas. And they have six offices, so not a small job. A lot of places to cover that she's got to be. Are you cloned six different times, by the way? I'm going to ask you that question later. Well, she's been recognized in regional publications as a notable business leader. So she's not only good at what she does in the professional space, she's also good at what she does at home. She's a mom. Sara Frasca: Tits Wit and Grit is a podcast created to hold honest, intelligent conversations with women who lead, build, and navigate demanding professional lives. This podcast was born from a belief that women benefit from spaces where experience is honored, perspective is shared openly, and leadership can be discussed in both depth and candor, and maybe even a little laughter. Each episode brings forth voices that will offer insight Gloria Campos: Ha ha ha. Laura: She's speaker and she's one hell of a gardener and a cook. So Gloria, thank you so much for being on our podcast. We appreciate it and we're ready to dive into it. Gloria Campos: you Tracy Laskos: Great! Gloria Campos: Thank you guys so much for having me. Appreciate it. Sara Frasca: drawn from their experience, and we will all speak honestly about leadership, resilience, ambition, and personal evolution. So let's get started. Tits, wit, and grit. Tracy Laskos: Gloria, that's amazing. Hearing your bio is just phenomenal. I guess I'm wondering, my friend, can you kind of tell us where you were and what your journey of evolution was to where you are today? Gloria Campos: So many things. Career wise, over 20 years in legal operations, I grew up problem solving, right, to this executive role. I'm now in leadership. I wasn't out looking ⁓ for specific titles. In fact, I think chief operating officer is very new for the legal space. ⁓ I looked for problems to solve. That's as simple as I can make it. There were often problems other people didn't have time to solve and or didn't want to own it right to get it resolved. I've had a desire all my life to just learn and over time that developed into strategy and planning. Culture was foreign years ago and now I mean that is that's all the talk and performance and leadership. Yeah that's kind of been my journey kind of broad. Tracy Laskos: Amazing. Yeah. Laura: That's fantastic. Gloria Campos: But in between that, I love to cook. Yes, I love to explore, go outdoors. I have a family. have three kids ⁓ and a husband that's super supportive, which is super, which is very important to have, right, ⁓ in your home base. And I don't know, it's just been a really incredible journey to date. Sara Frasca: That's great. Gosh. Laura: Awesome. So Gloria, your husband will put him aside, your kids will put aside. I want to hear, since again, Tits, and Grit were about women. I want to hear about amazing women that have been in your life and either that they're still in your lives today or they have influenced you at a young age. I'd just love to hear that story. Gloria Campos: Sure. Yeah. Sure. Yeah. One thing, know, both my, on my mom's side and my father's side, there's a ton of women. Father's side, he had eight brothers and sisters, mother's side, nine brothers and sisters. And so the female presence was loud on both ends. My grandmother, side, grandmother Lucy. was a huge inspiration, grew up next door. ⁓ She was next door to me as I grew up. We just recently celebrated her 96th birthday. ⁓ She is a woman of ⁓ faith, strength. She was resilient. She challenged everything. She didn't expect more of others that she wasn't willing to do herself. She was a business owner. She had restaurants. She even ministered at a church. I mean, she was just constantly, you know, at it with something. She was just always on the go, always on the move. And that was the example that was in front of me all the time. So just Challenging herself in life and business is what I took away from her and and what I think my sister so I have four sisters five women growing up five young girls growing up and there's a lot of leadership there I'll tell you a lot of influence and a lot of drive I think all my sisters are very career driven all different avenues, but all lead themselves and lead others And and so I think that that combination ⁓ Taught me, you know high standards Right? Have high standards for yourself and empathy for others. Tracy Laskos: Yep, that's great. Laura: Wow, that's amazing. So Grandma Lucy, so we got to get her on the podcast. Sounds like she needs to be on. At a future date. ⁓ Sara Frasca: Great. Yes. Gloria Campos: ⁓ absolutely. Let's do that. She's amazing. And I learned my cooking from her. yeah. Yeah. ⁓ Laura: ⁓ see? Awesome. That's great. ⁓ And awesome having sisters. I have two sisters as well. ⁓ Tracy, I know, does as well. Sarah doesn't have that privilege, but that's okay. She didn't have to share anything like we all did. So that's great. A follow up on that would be, know, with the five women strong in your family, like, how do you like celebrate and lift each other up? Do you do that? Do you like call each other and say, Sara Frasca: Mm. Tracy Laskos: Amen. Gloria Campos: Hehehehehe Tracy Laskos: Hmm. Laura: Was a terrible day or how do you deal with certain situations that you might have? Any advice? Gloria Campos: I think the things that I've learned professionally has really helped in how I respond personally to things. And everyone's going different directions. My oldest sister, she's an immigration attorney. So she's in the legal field, ⁓ had a really good example set for me with her. Another sister of mine, she's a regional. ⁓ manager for property property management. And I mean, she's she's a she's strong. She's extremely strong. And then you have to be that in that arena to have another sister who's in the medical field, another one who's a police officer. So when it comes to like influencing, I think we're also individually driven that sometimes we forget it's okay to put that guard down and to show vulnerability even amongst our own Sara Frasca: Mm. Gloria Campos: ⁓ you know, family and that's something that we talk a lot about. So we're actually right now trying to practice that more to say it's okay, you know, that I don't have to be tough. This is just us. Let's have this conversation, be more candid about things. And ⁓ we've always supported each other. We're together all the time, especially like, you know, holidays and ⁓ gatherings, special occasions. But again, we're so used to at times being very, strong that that you know even in the dynamics of siblings it sometimes stays there so you've got to remind each other that it's okay to let your guard down. Laura: sure. Sara Frasca: It's interesting, all of you are in very male dominated, traditionally male dominated industries. And so I was just thinking through, you know, how you were shaped by almost having a, I'll just say a pack of women, right? Like a really tight, I would assume, ⁓ supporting each other, pushing each other, those sorts of things. Do you think that played a role at all? Laura: Awesome. Gloria Campos: Yes. Yes. I think it did. So my mom, she was a stay at home mom, like obviously having five kiddos at that time. So she didn't work. My father was the primary breadwinner and made a lot of the big decisions. I think with all of us, we didn't really give her a whole lot of room to talk. We were all so loud and opinionated. My mom's probably one of the quietest. Kindest doesn't hurt a fly type of woman and you know I really don't know like we're probably a lot more like my father because we saw that and we would try to Empower her encourage her to speak up to say more but you know I almost feel like all the odds were against her at that point because you know with a group of women everyone has something to say But she took it like a champ for sure Tracy Laskos: Yeah. Sara Frasca: cute. Got. Okay, so changing gears a little bit. Is there a decision or a move in your career that has paid off because you trusted your gut and your intuition, even over kind of trends or popular advice? Gloria Campos: Mm-hmm. there. I would say, and this is a funny story or just kind of ironic that we're having this conversation because I shared this at our 10 year anniversary at the company I'm at now. ⁓ So about 10 years ago, I hit a real true crossroads in my career. I had an opportunity to join a much larger established firm. They kind of move where it looks really safe on paper, right? Bigger name, more research, Tracy Laskos: Thank Gloria Campos: resources, a very, very predictable path. And I'd given my notice and was preparing it to take that next step. And then something really unexpected happened. One of the partners who Sarah, know, and I deeply respect, he is really someone that I respect in leadership. His character, I watched up close. He asked me a very simple question. if I start my own firm, would you take that leap with me and build it and run it? There was absolutely no blueprint, no guarantees, no safety net, just vision and trust. Now, if you guys have ever taken the disc profile to kind of know, I'm a C, okay? Like I'm a C and a little D, I do have the D there, but. Tracy Laskos: Thank Gloria Campos: taking risks is not easy for someone like me. I plan everything. ⁓ So I just remember thinking, okay, this is like the riskiest decision that I'm going to make, right? And, and, ⁓ can be a really defining one ⁓ because one of the things that I struggle with and I think many people do is walking away from things that are secure, right? It's extremely uncomfortable. ⁓ Tracy Laskos: Thank Gloria Campos: you're betting not just on the business, you're betting on yourself, you're betting on the people that are around you and on the possibility of it working out. It's just a possibility. It hasn't even been planted yet. So walking away from that was hard, but I chose to trust my instincts and the partnership over a safer path. Sara Frasca: That's it for today's episode of Tits, Wit and Grit, where bold women, big ideas, and a little bit of fearless attitude collide. music. Wow. Gloria Campos: We started from the ground up, know, teams. processes, everything. And we built something from ground zero. And you know, when you do that, you're wearing a lot of hats, you learn super quick. I was doing finance operations, crisis hiring and interviewing. And a lot of times, a lot of that in the same day. So ⁓ it gave me wonderful exposure, right, to business and how it runs in areas I wouldn't normally have had an opportunity to dive into. Tracy Laskos: If today's conversation sparked something for you, share it with someone who needs it and make sure you're subscribed so you don't miss what's coming next. Gloria Campos: I think it really shaped who I show up to be every day today. ⁓ I'm just incredibly proud of the people that we have here and the culture and ⁓ everything behind it. Laura: you Tracy Laskos: That's great. So, Gloria, you were not just building a beautiful business, but you also had, you know, family at home. I'm curious how you navigated that during that season for yourself. Gloria Campos: Well. think we just do. feel sometimes, you know, at the end of the, could be one o'clock in the morning and my brain's still going and processing. And then I'm thinking, okay, did I check all the boxes that I do everything? And it's good to surround yourself around good people too in these moments, having a good support system around, because I do have to have those reminders that it's my daughter's game or my son has this that I've got to do. And so everything's got to be in a schedule so that I... Sara Frasca: you Gloria Campos: I can stay engaged and I can have what I would consider the best of both worlds. ⁓ I've always, I never dreamt of not having a career. It's always been something that is extremely meaningful and important to me and I wanna be my best self for them too. So I think that just making sure that that's communicated in advance with the people that are gonna be a part of that story of yours and I think it just sort of works out. Laura Raether: Remember, show up with confidence, trust your wit, and never underestimate the of grit. Tracy Laskos: Absolutely, absolutely. Gloria Campos: There's some things we got to work through. But either way, I think as long as the pictures painted, you know, I think that's probably what's helped me. Laura: you Laura Raether: See you next time. Tracy Laskos: That's amazing. Yeah, that's great. That's really great. So Gloria, I'm sure throughout this, you know, beautiful 10 years that you've had, there's been lessons, whether it's a leadership lesson, a growth lesson that you learned, but the hard way. And you're almost grateful now that it was the hard way and you truly stand beside it now. Is there something along those lines that you've gone through? Sara Frasca: Okay. Gloria Campos: Sure. I would say and something Sarah Lynn will probably laugh at it if he sees this, but you you can't want growth for people more than they want it for themselves. And that is such a hard pill for me to swallow. For a very, very long time, I have overextended myself trying to fix everything for everyone. ⁓ But there's no way that I can grow, right? Because it's kind of like pulling you back, like an anchor. And ⁓ but there's so there's no way that I can grow and focus on the things that I need to, unless I, you know, set very clear expectations and let people Laura: Mm-hmm. Gloria Campos: know, hey, this is where you need to meet me, right? This is where you have to rise to meet. I will be your biggest advocate, your biggest cheerleader, no question. But that desire to grow and to learn really does have to come from within. And I think that was a hard lesson for me to have to, you know, kind of learn and adapt to a new way of thinking and supporting someone else. Sara Frasca: There's almost an instinct, I feel like, you know, whether it's maternal or empathetic or like we just, want people to fly, but can't make them do it. You've got to create the opportunity and then they have to launch themselves into it. Tracy Laskos: Sure, yeah. Gloria Campos: Yeah. Tracy Laskos: Mm-hmm. Gloria Campos: And then in business, you hear it a lot of times. Well, it's like, it's like you're for so many. The people they work with are like their family, right? And ⁓ we're in this space half of the day of our lives. It just seems, it consumes a lot. And so we put a lot of time and effort and investment. And so it just seems like the most reasonable thing to do. Okay, you need a help here. Let me help you here. You need this, let me support you this way. But it becomes almost too much. You don't have the bandwidth to keep going. Tracy Laskos: Mm-hmm. Sara Frasca: So as another lens on this, mean, one of the interesting things about your role at the McCraw law firm is that you're at the top. mean, obviously you work very closely with the owner founder, ⁓ but you are responsible for everyone, including the attorneys is my understanding. Yeah. Gloria Campos: Yeah, so the, in legal operations, the chief legal officer, he and I work well together. We have the chief of marketer, her and I work well together. And then administration, you have some chiefs and heads in there, right from the financial side, IT, ⁓ HR director. And so, yes, there's a lot of... ⁓ I think there's a lot of collaboration and making sure that we're on track. That's just part of my role here. Help and support. Sara Frasca: Mm-hmm. You're being humble, but I'm just going to keep on this a little bit more because I have found, and this isn't always the case, of course, but that attorneys have a hard time reporting to a non-attorney. And so, again, I'm just like commending you and I mean, it's an awesome, awesome job that you've done to both build the... ⁓ influence to be able to navigate that, especially in what has traditionally been a male-dominated industry. Gloria Campos: And I'm, yeah. My answer to that would be there's strong personalities, right? And I think that that's true for a lot of male dominated industries, healthcare, tech, ⁓ legal. It's just, if you can get through that strong personality, at least for me, I try to approach it really with a ⁓ stoic mindset, which I didn't have before, right? Years before I would find myself in some, facing some serious Tracy Laskos: . Gloria Campos: various challenges, but I can, I have to focus on what I can control, right? I have to assume that there's positive intent behind it and that really is what helps me stay grounded and how I communicate with them to solve problems. I think, I think attorneys in general, I mean, they really do have extremely strong personality. Some of them are, don't, and some of them do, but I just, I just, I appreciate you know, someone being direct with me, I appreciate honesty. And I think that they do as well. And so I think that's what creates that mutual respect between me and them. Tracy Laskos: Hmm. Laura: So Gloria, do you have any, I wouldn't say weird because they're all yours, but do you have any habits? know, habits at work like every day I come into the office and I'm doing X, Y, and Z first. Some might say superstitious behavior if you're an athlete, but anything you have. Gloria Campos: Thank you. Tracy Laskos: you Gloria Campos: anything too. Too interesting. mean, I think that I am disciplined. There's certain things that I do. We're all kind of creatures of habit, you know, whether it's coffee in my special cup, you know, or, or it's like making sure that I've journaled ⁓ at the end of the day for five minutes or, you know, I'm checking my emails for this much time. And I think the, the boundary that I've set for myself is not everything's an emergency, right? ⁓ law practice and I imagine in a lot of industries, but there's a lot of noise in this business and ⁓ everything is an urgency, right? And for me, have to ⁓ just because it's loud, it doesn't mean that it deserves my attention. And so I have to be very focused to ⁓ if I'm going to be a good leader, right? If I'm going to make good decisions, I can't be reactive to all of the noise. So I think that I do try to set hard boundaries with that. I try to consume what I'm hearing and okay, I'm going to put that in the parking lot and I'm going to come back to that and I'm going to try to stay focused and I think it's the discipline behind. Otherwise, how can we do it all, right? Like there's just so much going on. Laura: Thanks. Tracy Laskos: Right? Right. Laura: Do you think we can do it all? Gloria Campos: Yes absolutely yes we'll be really tired but nothing that cucumbers can't fix over our eyes a nice nice paint job you know with the hair salon I think it should be fine Laura: Smoking like a chimney. Tracy Laskos: You Laura: Good. Yeah, that's a fair point. Spoken like a true woman. We can do it all. Sara Frasca: That's cute. Gloria Campos: So we do. Sara Frasca: Would you recommend to your daughters or to young women go into this industry? Like this legal space is good for us. Gloria Campos: the legal space or any industry. Sara Frasca: I was thinking the legal space, but you can answer both. Gloria Campos: So. My oldest is actually a senior in college. She's graduating this year, actually in May 8th, we got her graduation date, and she's going into healthcare. She's in pre-med and I often, I have talked to her about opening her own practice and ways I can help her and support her in doing that. And right now she's not looking for that, right? She's not looking for a leadership position. but she is, She feels empowered and I think ultimately that's what we can do is just kind of pass down what we've experienced, show support, but she's very strong willed too. it's, you know, maybe you guys have experienced this, but you know, they often need to go through that mistake themselves, you know, and you can, you know, sound the alarms and raise flags, but. Tracy Laskos: Yeah. Gloria Campos: You know, that's just kind of how it goes. But she's she's great. My my other daughter, she's 14 and I do think she's going to go so far. I do think she's going to go in the legal space. She sometimes goes head to head with some of the counsel that we have here. She's in debate. She's in softball. She is a a hard hitter. She's she's a lot. She's a lot. She's obsessed with like all of the legal shows out there. She's watched everything. Law and Order or CSC, CSI. Laura: Wow. Sara Frasca: Thank Gloria Campos: She's, Judge Judy was one of her favorite, all of the judges. She's super dramatic. She's just a, to me she inspires me because nothing really stops her. Tracy Laskos: Mm-hmm. Laura: Yeah. Tracy Laskos: Hmm. Gloria Campos: And I, I can't, I wasn't courageous like she was when she was 14. So I definitely am just in off her every day. Now my son, he's very comfortable. He doesn't like, he plays sports and he does well in school, but he doesn't like a lot of pressure. He doesn't want to have to go out and do more than, than he asked to. So he's a little bit of, he's my home body. But the girls, yeah, they definitely run the show. He, he often complains that his voice isn't heard. So we've got to, Try to balance that out between the three. Tracy Laskos: That's great. Your middle daughter, how old is she? 14, so she's a freshman. Sara Frasca: That's cute. Laura: Thanks. Gloria Campos: 14. 14, yes. She's about to, next year she'll be a freshman in the fall. Yes, yeah. Tracy Laskos: Okay. That's exciting. That's exciting. Is there opportunity for her to test out what it is that she desires and see how she does or? Gloria Campos: Well, you know, as. probably many parents out there. We just try to inspire them, coach them, help them, put them in front of opportunities and see if they will do the rest. so she's had public speaking training. Like I said, she does debate. She's played softball for years before that, soccer. She's an art. She loves crafts. There's really nothing that stops her. Bob Ross, like the famous painter, is someone who Tracy Laskos: Thanks. ⁓ Sara Frasca: Mm-hmm. Laura: Okay. Gloria Campos: she adores and she paints. She's really good at it. So she's into so many different hobbies she plays. She taught herself the piano. She got it downloaded an app and she plays piano. She's just so creative. So while I think that she's going to go the legal path, we'll see. Anything's possible. Yeah. Sara Frasca: Yeah. Gosh, that's great. Gloria Campos: I mean, she didn't want to really want to be a lawyer. She said, I want to be a judge, mom. That's what I want to be. And I said, well, you know, you got to start here before you go there. So she's like, OK, well, I'll do that. And then that's that's really her long term goal. Funny. Yeah. Yeah. Tracy Laskos: Good. Laura: There you go. Tracy Laskos: Yeah. Sara Frasca: Wow, that's still very impressive. Okay, this is kind of a funny question, but when we sent you the information about tits, wit and grit, what did you think? Like, what was your reaction? Were you like, ⁓ my God, this sounds crazy or what was your thought? Laura: Wow. Tracy Laskos: expressive. Gloria Campos: No, no, I mean, I was smiling from cheek to cheek. was I think it's moving. think it calls to action, you know. Sara Frasca: You Gloria Campos: empowerment and to sharing stories and people who have had to put a lot of grit, women who have had to have a lot of grit to get through the day, to get through their journey. I don't know, if I can say this word, I thought it was ballsy. liked it. Yes, yeah. Tracy Laskos: Mm. Laura: You for sure can say that one. If we can say Tess, you can say Balzy. Sara Frasca: You can. Tracy Laskos: I'm Gloria Campos: That's true, right? Yeah, I was all in. Let's do it. I don't even know what to expect. Let's go. Sara Frasca: That's great, Gloria. Let's go. Laura: But, Gloria, how do you, I mean, since wit is kind of part of it too. ⁓ And, you know, typically when people think of law firms, it's not really witty. It's maybe sarcastic, but maybe witty. But like, what's your firm like? Like, how do you guys encourage kind of some of that playful culture that doesn't cross the line, but yet it's fun? Tracy Laskos: That's really good. Gloria Campos: Yeah. Yeah. We have a lot of that here, believe it or not. I think that's how we keep our sanity. There are a lot of firms out there that maybe are more traditional and I mean, it's a serious practice, but you've got to find ways to lighten up. I mean, the partners here will tell you I have put them through the wringer in ⁓ presenting to the team in fun ways. Sara Frasca: is that. you Gloria Campos: that's putting on a costume, we're gonna give them a show, like we're gonna have fun with this because if they see as leaders, you're allowing yourself to be playful, right? And that gives them permission to do that too. Tracy Laskos: Mm-hmm. Gloria Campos: So I think that we have a really great culture here. mean, I, Lynn's probably the CEO founder here. He's probably, he has about 10 costumes I've made him put on for one reason or another, on the other ones. But we're always trying to find a way to make light of, you know, serious things that we're dealing with because it can be a lot of pressure. So yeah, I think we do a good job with that. Laura: Thank Gloria Campos: I'm happy with it. Sara Frasca: One of my reflections as I've gotten to know you, as I've gotten to know Lynn and other folks at the firm is that sometimes in business, people choose money over people. And I have found that you either have found the perfect balance or have maybe even leaned more on the people side, which I think is pretty impressive again, or... ⁓ Tracy Laskos: Mm. Sara Frasca: So I don't know if you want to talk about that at all, but I just find that you guys are really focused on not only the clients, but your team. Gloria Campos: Yes, yes and that was even through, ⁓ I would say that one thing that We have to give ourselves permission for us to accept we've got one. We don't know anything. It's okay to vocalize that and to learn from others. And we have had and Lynn has had some great mentorship in this area, some colleagues and partners that are willing to share what's worked, what's not worked. And then having somebody that's creative on the other end, right? The two have to work. Lynn can tell me as CEO or founder of an organization can tell you what the vision looks like. But like in my seat as a COO, have to figure out how to bring that to life. So there's a lot of creativity that has to go into that. Then it's also the culture that you want to have. There are businesses out there that, ⁓ you know, they're going to run a much tighter shift and it is serious to the bone. There's a lot of personality profiles that fit within that. It's just a matter of what do you want to live by? What do you value? Laura: Thank you. Gloria Campos: what's the culture you want in your organization and then you just have to find the people that can appreciate that, want to be a part of it and want to add to it to cultivate it. When you have 10 people, fine, two of you can do a lot of the work, most of the work to really influence the culture. wanna see when you have 25, 58, like it's, you can't have it to just one or two people anymore. it's, they've got it. The people you're bringing in really do have to be the ones cultivating that and pushing it forward. So I think that's kind of what, does that answer your question? Sara Frasca: Yeah, it does. mean, I would say, again, I think you just knowing you guys a little bit, you're not just always making decisions based off of profit. You're also making decisions that balance the people involved. Gloria Campos: Yeah. Yeah. And I think it's transparency behind it too, that we have with our team. We all know we have to show up to work and we have a job to do. That's fair in any industry, no matter what you choose to do, even if you have your own business, you've got to show up and open those doors, right? ⁓ And for us, it's a balance. Look, we need you to have a skillset to perform the role that this seat has designed to do, but we also want you to be a really good culture fit too. ⁓ And it doesn't come easy. And when you are really pushing that agenda out, you lose a few people, right? Along the way, you have some turnover, you experienced some matrician there. That's just due to alignment, right? You might have some people that come in off the bat and they might align with two of your values, but the other two, that's a challenge for them, right? And even through conversation and through time, they might realize this really isn't a fit for me. That's okay. Laura: Mm-hmm. Tracy Laskos: Yeah. Yeah. Gloria Campos: We appreciate that, right? Because our journey is gonna continue and this is what we value and we have to find it. when it comes to, okay, let's say for instance, an example, you have a ⁓ high performer, someone who's bringing in a lot of financial value to an organization, but if they're toxic, right? And you have an organization designed much like ours where every seat here has a purpose and contributes to that bottom line. then now you're a risk of impacting, you know, the rest of the design. And so we look at it that way more than we look at it, okay, this one performer might do well, but you don't get along with anyone. We can't really be a team and move forward together. So ⁓ that's our bigger picture that we look at when we are facing a challenge with an individual person. We go back to that. Sara Frasca: Yes. Gloria Campos: we analyze that situation both ways. Tracy Laskos: I love that. I love that. And you guys have built a beautiful business, Gloria. ⁓ I'm gonna pivot for a second though, cause I'd love to learn a little bit more like about you. Like where do you see Gloria in five, 10 years? Like what does the future hold for you? What's exciting to you? Gloria Campos: Yeah, maybe on this podcast. Is there there room? Laura: Yeah, you better. Tracy Laskos: Thank you! Sara Frasca: Yeah. ⁓ Gloria Campos: I can get dressed up. Yeah, lots of fun. think continuing to, I don't know necessarily that I have carved out a final plan for me. I still very much see that I'm like learning and I'm meeting so many new people and trying to see where that evolves to. But I do envision whatever institutional knowledge that I have. Sara Frasca: you Laura: Yeah. Gloria Campos: that I pass that forward and help other people develop. That's probably what I think for myself right now is what the future looks like. Sara Frasca: Thank Tracy Laskos: Yeah, absolutely. that's targeting females? Are you just leadership in general? What is, what are you passionate about in that regard? Gloria Campos: say I love bridging. Like I love to bridge issues so if a problem comes let's find how we can find a middle ground. You need Tracy Laskos: Hmm. Gloria Campos: this person, that person needs you, right? You have alignment here. Most everything makes and breaks with communication. So I think I would find myself there. I love the seat that I'm in now. Again, chief operating officer didn't exist for many years. And at the end, it's just carrying many hats, you know, and I enjoy it. I enjoy doing it. I really don't know what I would be doing otherwise. Sara Frasca: . Laura: Yeah, that's right. Sara Frasca: Thank So you talked. Laura: So Gloria, I'm gonna give you an out. Cause if Lynn does listen to this podcast, you're never retiring, right? Let's pretend you win the lottery. What's Gloria doing? What's the first thing? Okay, what's the first place you're gonna visit? Gloria Campos: Excuse me. That's okay. The good thing is they're here and I often talk about this. Laura: and that you can take all your sisters, all your family, all your friends. Hopefully us will do the live version of the TWG at some amazing place. so where's the first place you're gonna visit? And then second of all, what's the first thing you're gonna buy for yourself? Gloria Campos: podcast. Yeah. Sara Frasca: Yep. Tracy Laskos: Hahaha Mmm. Gloria Campos: Wow, that's super hard because I will tell you that the first thing because don't we have these kind of scenarios in our mind sometimes if this happens and what would I do? So this is definitely one that I've thought about and I would definitely want to make sure that ⁓ I I give to my family give to the people that you know are here at work where I would want to travel Italy I have not been there yet, but it's in my next two-year picture. So my love Italian food. So I just Laura: Bonjour! Gloria Campos: want to stuff my face with Italian food and bread and get all bloated that's just so much fun doesn't that sound fun you know sitting on a couch with a big bowl you know no judgment that's yes absolutely yes have some wine with it of course Laura: You Tracy Laskos: Yes. Laura: You forgot drink wine. ⁓ Some wine with that? Some wine? Okay. Go ahead. Sara Frasca: you Gloria Campos: And you know travel, do love traveling. I'm a fan of the outdoors. I love hiking. I love the beach. It's just anything that can get me into an open space hearing nature. At night I sleep with ocean sounds and ⁓ I don't know, I just love being outside. It's probably one of my favorite things. Laura: Okay, what are you gonna buy for yourself? Come on, what are you buying? Sara Frasca: Awesome. Gloria Campos: What would I buy for myself? I don't know. I don't know. It couldn't be an irresponsible purchase like, you know? All right. Maybe like a little, not a big one, but like a little boat. That would be fun. Like a little sailboat, like a sailboat. I think I would get me a sailboat. That's what I would get. Laura: Yes! You've won the frickin' lottery! My God! Go crazy! Sara Frasca: Of course! ⁓ Laura: ⁓ no. ⁓ Tracy Laskos: ⁓ Sara Frasca: Well. Laura: Okay, not a yacht. Sara Frasca: Do you know how to stand? Gloria Campos: No, but I've been on them and I love the beach. And so I think I would get a self vote, yes. And I'll hire somebody because I will have won the lottery. So I won't technically need to learn how to do it. I'll hire someone to do it while I have my wine and pasta. Perfect world. Perfect world. ⁓ that's true. Sara Frasca: Okay. Tracy Laskos: love it. Sara Frasca: Okay. Laura: Okay. Sara Frasca: That's very cool. I love it. would maybe. Laura: I like it. Sara Frasca: Right. Tracy Laskos: Yes. Sara Frasca: Perfect. And if you wanted to learn a piece of it, you could learn like all the knots. Just in case that comes up and you need to know. No, no, knots. Laura: So, I'm in. never. Gloria Campos: No, Laura: And Gloria, just a little to make you feel even better about Italy, because of how they make their pasta and not so much processed stuff as a part of it, you do not get bloated. Gloria Campos: Yeah. Tracy Laskos: Mm. Gloria Campos: That's what I heard that it's like, it doesn't have the gluten or something. Yeah. So I get to go there, have all the pasta and bread that I want and I won't get bloated. I mean, yeah, that's amazing. Laura: It's amazing. yeah, so don't not feel, but again, you've won the lottery. So who cares? Sara Frasca: Yeah. Tracy Laskos: Perfect. That's perfect. Laura: Correct. Done. Sara Frasca: Laura, you've been to Italy? Tracy, have you been to Italy? Okay, okay, okay. I lived in Rome for about nine months. Yeah, so I love it also. And I concur. And I think that the wine flows from the fountains, basically. It's cheaper than buying soda. So you might as well just keep drinking wine. It's wonderful. Tracy Laskos: I have. Yep. Have you? ⁓ yeah, that's right. Laura: Amazing. Tracy Laskos: Literally. Gloria Campos: Wow. I'm excited, I can't wait. I haven't been to Europe at all, so that's the next destination. Sara Frasca: Hmm. Very good. ⁓ Tracy Laskos: All right, so next five years, that's it. ⁓ Laura: I see lot of places for this podcast to go. love it. Mm-hmm. For sure. Gloria Campos: Yeah, yeah, that's Yes. Sara Frasca: Me too. Tissuit and grit from, where would we do it from? Sicily, maybe? Or a Maltese, love it. Okay, good. Tracy Laskos: A Malfi, the Malfi Coast. Laura: There. could be on the beach. I'm not sure the Vatican would take us. I'm not sure. We'd have to change the title a little bit. Gloria Campos: I'm there. Tracy Laskos: Yes, you'd be on the beach. It's supposed to be beautiful. Sara Frasca: Ooh, no. ⁓ Tracy Laskos: ⁓ Gloria Campos: We cannot, we cannot, we can take your podcast to the streets and, you know, talk to women, you know, ask them questions. We go interview them. That'd be fun. You know, yeah. Ask them that they need an attorney share the law firm while I'm at it, you know, market it, put my T-shirt and logo on. It all works out. Laura: Yeah. Tracy Laskos: be perfect. Walk around with the wine. Sara Frasca: I like it. Good brainstorming. Tracy Laskos: That's perfect. Sara Frasca: Really great. ⁓ Okay, what show are you watching right now? Anything you're really into? Okay, good luck. Gloria Campos: Yes, yes, which I'm sort of embarrassed to share because ⁓ One it's been out forever. So when I say it people are like, ⁓ that's been out forever So the crown I am right now and I'm in season four and it's been out for so long and I I just wanted to watch it and and learn kind of okay the history behind it compare it to what happened in real life So it's taken me a while to finish because when some big, you know event happens, I look it up Sara Frasca: ⁓ Tracy Laskos: Yes! Gloria Campos: to see if it was true. And so, I mean, it takes research, you know, it's history, but I'm obsessed with that right now. I even found myself talking a little bit like it too when I was texting and trying to sound a little bit mysterious, you know, and it's catchy, it's catchy. I like it, you know? Yeah, that's a great show. Sara Frasca: That's awesome. Awesome. I remember looking, I watched it a little while ago, maybe a year or two ago, but looking it up thinking, this cannot be real. And it is, it's a very historically accurate show. Pretty fascinating. ⁓ Gloria Campos: Yeah, it is. It is extremely accurate. A lot of juicy stuff in there too, let me add. Geez, yes. Tracy Laskos: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Laura: Mm-hmm. Sara Frasca: Truly, truly. Gosh. And it doesn't end there. They're going to have a show forever, think, those... We're just monarchs. No, I just mean... Gloria Campos: Really? Well, they've got a lifelong viewer right here because it's intense. good. Yeah, it's like one o'clock in the morning and I'm just watching it. I have to be really quiet, but I just can't let it go. Yeah. I only had three hours of sleep. That's fine. Yeah. Yeah. A lot of it. A lot of it. I actually went on a Sara Frasca: Yeah. Tracy Laskos: front row with with popcorn. Laura: Hahaha! Sara Frasca: That's great. ⁓ Tracy Laskos: It's fun. That's why we have caffeine. Coffee. Sara Frasca: I think Laura: It's all right. It's all good. Awesome. Tracy Laskos: Yeah. Sara Frasca: So you. Gloria Campos: a challenge. So funny story, a couple of people in our admin team brought to my, asked me if I wanted to go on this coffee challenge with them. No coffee. In fact, it was like a fasting, not even eating and going three days with nothing but water. And so I said, okay, fine. And they'd been talking about it for like months. So they finally, they reached out on a Sunday and said, okay, we're going to do it. Will you do it with us? And I said, okay, I'll do it with you guys. Let's say that Monday the next day, 10, 30, 11, the first person came in and she said, I can't do this anymore. I tried, I need to have my coffee and I just wanna know, do you want me to make you one? mind you, she's the one that actually texted me and was like, I need your support, let's do this, right? I looked at her and I smiled and I said, no, I'm going to try to get through this day. Let me just, right. The other person as well slowly gave up. In fact, funny story on that. One of them actually brought their lunch just in case they were not going to make it. Sara Frasca: How funny. Gloria Campos: ⁓ you plan not to get through this challenge by lunchtime. Wonderful. Okay. So I said, no, now I have something to prove to you guys. Now I've got to do this. And so I went all day, ⁓ all night. I allowed myself a couple of almonds and nuts that night. And ⁓ I will admit, I felt dizzy into that. I had a headache. It just wasn't a great experience. Tracy Laskos: Yes. Gloria Campos: The next day I switched it up and I said, okay, I'm just going to fast till noon. That will prevent me from the craving of coffee, which is what I drink the morning, like as soon as I get up in the morning. So I am now 13 or 14, 14 days in of no coffee, no caffeine, and I feel fine. But it is hard because everywhere you go, you smell it, you hear it. Laura: Sure. Tracy Laskos: ⁓ wow. Gloria Campos: And it's like, I'm not over the addiction at all. So I'm gonna go, I'm gonna try to go through this Sunday and then I'm gonna gradually get back in it. But they're all super proud of me because I know coffee's the staple in my life. And now they're like, we can't let you fail, we can't. Like, yeah, that's fine. I'll keep going, but that's what I'm doing right now. Tracy Laskos: Yeah. Sara Frasca: Thank Nice. Tracy Laskos: That's, are you sub? Gloria Campos: Small challenges, that's what we have to do for ourselves though, right? Little small wins. Tracy Laskos: Yep. Yep. Are you substituting it with something? Like I stopped coffee for probably about two months and had like hot water with a lemon. So like I had something to look forward to, but it wasn't the coffee. Sara Frasca: I like it. Laura: Yeah. Gloria Campos: At night, eight o'clock, I will have a decaf ⁓ chai tea and I'll put a little splash of oat milk, some cinnamon and a little honey. And it kind of gives me the fix, but because I'm fasting until noon and just not having anything that by noon, I'm ready to eat the cow. Like I don't even want the coffee. I'm going all in. ⁓ Sara Frasca: Thank Tracy Laskos: Okay. Yep. Sara Frasca: Hmm. Tracy Laskos: Ha ha! Laura: Hahaha Gloria Campos: Which is funny because some of the ladies I go to lunch with, they make fun of me now. They think I attack my plate. I'm like, I'm starving, let's go. Sara Frasca: That's cute. ⁓ Laura: You Gloria Campos: experience. ⁓ Tracy Laskos: That's great. Laura: That's Sara Frasca: I did a juice cleanse once with my husband when we were first dating and he thought I was crazy. anyway, it was a good experience. It was very difficult. The treat at the end of the day is like an almond water and it tastes like a cupcake by the time you get through the day. Yeah. Anyway. Gloria Campos: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Tracy Laskos: you Gloria Campos: ⁓ yeah, absolutely. I was like dreaming of bananas the first night. I'm like, geez, I need a banana. That's not typically my go-to unless I'm having a smoothie or something, but geez, was probably, it just sounded like cheesecake on a plate. But I got over it. I started watching Crown and I got into that, the intensity of the drama that I was able to forget about it. Laura: Yeah. Sara Frasca: Okay. It's great. It's a good crutch. A healthy crutch for you. Yeah. Wow. Gloria Campos: It's good times, good times. Tracy Laskos: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Laura: That's awesome. Gloria, in our few minutes that we have left, a little bit of a rapid fire. I'm gonna ask you some questions. ⁓ What's a mantra or phrase that you live by? Gloria Campos: Oh, everyone in this office will tell you, believe in doing what you say you're going to do. Follow through matters. And I hold myself to that. That's typically where things kind of fall between when there's issues that arise or problems that come up. Oftentimes it's that follow through. And so I say that a lot. Do what you say you're going to do. Tracy Laskos: Mm. Laura: Yep, awesome. That's a good one for sure. How about a favorite book? Or a book that you're reading that you love that everybody should know. Sara Frasca: great. Gloria Campos: there's there's so much that the intentional journey is my favorite. ⁓ Laura: Yes! Sara Frasca: We know that one! Gloria! That's awesome! Laura: That's fantastic. Gloria Campos: Yes, that's a good one. Also, lean in with Sheryl Sandberg, I think I had shared with you guys. It's been, I think, four or five years since I read that one, but what I took away from that was stop second guessing yourself. If you're in the room, you have permission to speak and not shrinking yourself. Sara Frasca: You Laura: Yep. Sara Frasca: great one. Gloria Campos: And I say that often at times when I get asked to step into leadership management, coaching a program that we have here. And I tell that to our ladies, don't shrink yourself. Don't put yourself in the sidelines, just because you might be dealing with a personality that's stronger than yours. she's such an inspiration, just her entire journey and everything that she has done. Laura: Mm-hmm. Gloria Campos: I think she's empowered so many, definitely me. Don't wait until, not all of the stars are gonna align. ⁓ Don't wait until you feel ready because you're never gonna feel 100 % ready and you just gotta go. You gotta go with it even if it feels uncomfortable. Tracy Laskos: Mm. Sara Frasca: That's awesome. Laura: Yeah, it's a little bit kind of like this podcast. We were talking about it, talking about it. We're like, let's just do it. Let's just see. Let's just see where it goes. Gloria Campos: Little bit. Little bit. How did that get started to like how did the idea started. Sara Frasca: How? Well, Laura named it and I couldn't see them yet. And I couldn't say the full title for like three months. I was like, with and grit. And the reason is that Laura and I are both from Minnesota. So there's like this like prude, very innocent, very like naive quality that I have. And I wasn't I wasn't allowed to say, but in my household until I was 18 years old. So there you go. So that was hard for me. Gloria Campos: ⁓ you did? Laura: It's so funny. Gloria Campos: Hahaha! Yeah. Yeah. Sara Frasca: But it is, I'm telling you, is everything that we as women need to be right now, in my opinion, is proud of who we are and leaning in, just like Cheryl says in her book, and full of some laughter because what the heck, we only get one time to do this, right? So pretty fun. Laura: And I think... Gloria Campos: Well, when I saw the name, I thought that is different for Sarah, but I'm into it. Let's do it. Now that I know it's Laura, I can see that. Love it. Love it. Laura: Right Sara Frasca: ⁓ no, Gloria! I'm glad you figured that one out. That's good. Laura: But it was literally one of those shower moments or when you wake up at 1 AM. I just was like, because we were talking about it, and we kind of were like some dorky corporate things. And I'm like, I don't want to be dorky corporate. I want to have some fun with this. So that's so, yes. ⁓ But I am trained. am. Gloria Campos: Yeah. Yeah, there's so much personality. There's so much personality. Yeah. Laura: Yeah, I am trademarking it or we are trademarking it. But the other thing to add on for Sarah, what she said is we kind of want a legacy for our, you know, we all have daughters and not that you, if you don't have a daughter, doesn't mean you can't listen to this podcast, but it was a little bit of, you know, we're better than our mom's generation. We want them to be leaps and bounds better than our generation. And, you know, talking about stuff and, and understanding it's okay to talk about stuff. Gloria Campos: Sure, yeah. Laura: and it's okay to talk about what you do if you win the lottery. And I think that was important. We are gonna have our daughters on, which will be great on a future like this. Yeah, so that'll be kind of Gloria Campos: Yeah. I that. Yes. That'll be very interesting. I hope that they have some freedom to share some embarrassing stories. I love that. Totally. Tracy Laskos: Yeah. Yeah. Sara Frasca: Thank Tracy Laskos: Yeah. Yeah. I think also just come. Sorry. Also just kind of compounding what Sarah and Laura said. It's we wanted to make sure that our our stories were reflected and shared, right? We've all had several seasons of growth through leadership, personal experiences and so forth. And we really wanted to create space similar to what you said before about Laura: ⁓ they will. Yeah. Okay, Gloria, one more. ⁓ go ahead, Tracy. Yeah. Tracy Laskos: ⁓ showing up, creates permission for them to do likewise. And so making sure we were paving a way for other women, whether they're in leadership space, desire to be in leadership space, they're in a male dominated vertical or not, but just allowing them to know that they have the right to take up space in whatever area of their life they desire and giving them that kind of permission slip by having honest and radical conversations with other amazing women. Gloria Campos: I love it. I'm moved by it. We're all having to be so proper at all times and what's an acceptable standard. I think it's great. I think it's going to empower a lot of people. Certainly did me. I've had a blast. Yeah. Laura: Okay, Gloria. So we after this, it's not for public consumption, but we might be doing a happy hour, the three of us to celebrate this first episode. And if you happy hour, what would be your drink of choice? It could be non alcoholic, doesn't matter. There's no judging, but always curious to hear. Sara Frasca: Thank you, ⁓ Gloria Campos: Nice. This one might shock you, but typically my drink of choice is a Crown Royal and ginger ale on ice with lime. That's my go-to. That's my signature drink. Pretty much it's a staple. Everybody knows that's my alcoholic beverage. Our choice of beverage is alcohol. Yeah. I like wine. Love it. Tracy Laskos: Nice. Laura: Nice. Sara Frasca: Google. I love it. Laura: All right, that's great. Sara Frasca: It's great. Laura: That's all. Gloria Campos: That other one's my go-to. I feel very controlled with the other one. I feel pretty good about it. Wine makes me very relaxed. I feel like I almost can't do anything else but just relax when I have wine. No? Yeah. What are you doing? Laura: All right. Yeah, that's good. That's great. Yeah. That's awesome. ⁓ Sara Frasca: Sounds like good wine. Well, that's great. And again, I mean, we are just so happy to kick off this series with you, Gloria. It's an honor to watch you, you know, kind of through your leadership, build a culture and a business that is thriving and growing and providing a path for your people to build careers, build their skills. So bravo to you again, and thank you for joining us in this conversation. It's just really been a blast to chat with you, get to know you a little bit better, and thanks for being on. Gloria Campos: Absolutely.