Latest / The Gill Athletics Track and Field Connections Podcast / #208: Logan Sharpe-Ashland University

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#208: Logan Sharpe-Ashland University · The Gill Athletics Track and Field Connections Podcast

• 0:10
  Track and field coach, the ones that point
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  people most every season. He's the voice of reason.
• 0:27
  Speaking, the growth gotta prep for you carry the load.
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  Talk to the stove. For those of us, stay on the go
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  pop, the handle, staying in the zone.
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  What you packing for the role is more than one way to go taking
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  those tests. And you told it ain't practice
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  it before it became clear. You can't happen to you.
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  Listen with both ears, can't Mentor, without a mentor, kids
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  of experience, you can reinvent those kids.
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  Every plans got to stand and deliver in the price sacrifice,
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  can you give up Hugh its choice and to fight not to win or lose?
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  It's not a boy, but if I see, y'all can make more movies, not
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  about how to All about why you don't know what you're you know
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  who you are inside. Six, many ways to die.
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  She's not absorb. Your faults Finish Line.
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  The work ain't done. So we learn from the experts to.
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  Y'all got to put in the legwork Gil athletic shoes Network.
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  It's all about Connections put together for the profession to
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  every track coach could be blessed.
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  All right, we're here back on the Gila FedEx connections
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  podcast, I am your host. So humbled here.
• 1:38
  Mike Cunningham your humble host here of the national, not the
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  national. That's my title, that was dumb.
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  I'm the host of the Gill Athletics track and field
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  connections podcast. I guess my title is National
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  Business Villa manager overall though.
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  I'm just so happy that I'm here, you're here.
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  And today's guest is here, we're going to have a lot of fun.
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  It is if you're listening during the week, that this is being a
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  weakness being record that this was published its NCAA,
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  Championship time. So I'm actually I'm in Pueblo
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  right now. The magic of podcast world, I'm
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  in Pueblo getting set up for NCAA division, 2 s.
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  We've got a crew out in Rochester for division threes,
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  we've got crews in West and East what North Florida and
• 2:17
  Sacramento State for first round and suitably division ones.
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  We are all over the place and we're kicking off this
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  Championship. What a better way to kick off
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  this Championship. We then one of the perennial
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  championship teams in the division. 2 era from Ashland
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  University's, help me. Welcome From Ashland University,
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  the Eagles, Screaming Eagle, the Eagles, the Eagles, the
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  assistant coach, mr. Logan, sharp Logan.
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  How are you, man? I'm doing well.
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  How are you? I almost said Screaming Eagles.
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  But who is that? That's somebody else.
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  Someone's a screaming eagle. Yeah, I've always always
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  wondered, like someone was like, oh, okay, we want to be the
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  Eagles but you know, there's a lot of ego.
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  So let's make ourselves the screaming eagles, which, you
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  know, I guess exo-k. See, we just ran into tangents
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  here. Have you actually heard what an
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  eagle? He's like, yeah, I did.
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  Yeah. Not-not-not.
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  The movie, not the movie, Eagles like that.
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  Not like what you see a movie? Like, what a real eagle sounds
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  like, ya know. I've, I've been an avid
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  Outdoorsman oh, so yeah, okay, yeah.
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  We'll probably get inside if you have it, if you're listening and
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  you only know of an eagle from like, what you see in a movie,
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  well, that's actually a hawk Go YouTube in Eagle.
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  It will surprise you. Like screaming eagle actually is
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  a pretty good description. It's an odd sound for people who
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  like me group, Watching TV shows and movies.
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  And like I had this idea of what an eagle sounds like.
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  It ain't what an eagle sounds like and that's why you come to
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  the Gil connections podcast to find out what Eagles actually
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  sound like Logan, man. Thanks for being here today,
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  man. This is a real Autry.
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  You know when we started the podcast up you know we had a
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  very specific angle of what when who and how to record for
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  guests. Here.
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  And you know, through that time we get a lot of people that
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  reach out and say hey I'd love to be a guest and things like
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  that and I'm always like I'll put you on the list.
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  I'll put you on the list but I only get 50 to a year so that
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  you know so you think about if I have a list of 52, if I tell you
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  on the list and your number 52 it's a year from now that I'll
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  get to you Logan you and I connected.
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  I mean years ago and I was like, Logan, you're on the list and
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  I'm sure you either thought, okay, well, Michael call soon or
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  after I didn't call soon, you're like Mike, whatever.
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  Yeah, sure. The list.
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  As young as young coach, I was nobody at the time.
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  No. Oh wait.
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  Oh wait my years. This is it is early.
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  It is 9:00 my time when we recording this and now this is
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  twice, I have to have this conversation today.
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  I had this conversation on Twitter this morning and now I'm
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  going to have to have it with you.
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  You were not in. Still are not any kind of lowly
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  assistant coach or lowly new coach at such.
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  I had a coach today. Message me and say, oh, I'm just
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  a low-impact to use the word loli, loli pole, vault /
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  distance, coach and I was like, never, never, ever, ever, you
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  are not just, you are not lowly what you do, as a coach, whether
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  you're in the high school college level, whether you're on
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  the Nei, Juco power 5, it doesn't matter what you do, as a
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  track coach is mg. Measurable the positivity that
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  you give young people, it's there is no amount of value that
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  we can give and we We undervalue what we do as coaches from pay
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  and even our own cells, exactly what you said there.
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  I knew it was a little loose, okay, well, crab day, one of of
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  a track coach day, 1000 of a track coach, you are awesome.
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  My friend, you really are you deserve to be in the podcast
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  back, then you deserve to be in the podcast.
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  Now you will deserve to be on the podcast.
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  These are way more than this little podcast.
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  Trust me, man. So that's my rant.
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  I will always When someone tells me I'm just a track coach.
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  I'm just that Throws coach, or I'm a little, like, bullcrap.
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  You are for me, and my other teammates, your Gil.
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  You're at the highest of the mountain buddy, no one is better
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  than a track coach. All right.
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  Can we go? Will you promise me?
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  You will stop. You will never say that counting
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  again. Alright, alright, let's say I've
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  made success in the podcast already.
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  Just in the first five minutes here.
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  All right, Logan. Let's get into it, man.
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  Let's find out you and your journey and kind of just
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  explore. You know, how you got to where
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  you are today? I'm Janine, that there's some
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  pretty interesting turns already know, there's some Outdoorsman
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  side to here. So let's jump in our way back
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  machine and talk to us about where does coaching for track
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  and field maybe and maybe it's other sports that builds into
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  it, but we're just coaching begin for you.
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  I so I actually started coaching back at Southern Connecticut
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  State. I was fifth-year student athlete
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  getting getting done with my fifth year going into my
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  six-year-old. A grad school my second year,
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  grad school basically and still want to train post-collegiate.
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  Lee head around 51 3 in the hurdles and said coach I want to
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  keep going and he was a hey he's like he's like let's move.
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  It was funny because during during my time at Southern as an
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  athlete I drained the 800 a little bit former and on the 4x8
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  seems like he's like, let's move you up in events.
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  So did a year training with him more as 800 Runner, hated my
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  life, not going to do not like mileage Fusion, I wish I had
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  Getting, get my mileage up and it's not a fan of losing weight.
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  Couldn't keep weight on to begin with us.
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  I was on those things, like not coaches, this isn't for me but
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  during that time he said, hey I need some extra hands on deck.
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  Coach Walton is always had a couple quotes around but then
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  keeps a lot of alumni around him and basically keeps the team
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  going with the same, the same pride and the southern owls that
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  he's had since he started there and it was one of those things
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  where he's right. Here's a stop, watch you work.
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  The hurdlers you work with a foreigner Runners?
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  Let's keep that going on. So that's that's where I started
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  training and coaching athletes. I did that for two years and
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  then decide to move on. What was the plan.
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  So this was, you know, at the tail end of your athletic career
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  and your college career, what was the plant up to that point?
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  What were you majoring in, what did you think you were going to
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  become? So when I started college, I had
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  gone in think he's gonna be athletic trainer.
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  Okay. Yeah, I switch that my freshman
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  year from Athletics. You need to stay in exercise,
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  science field and just go more huge performance route.
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  So I wasn't sure if I was going to go Human Performance and be a
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  shrink auditioning coach or go into Physical Therapy, a lot of
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  Southerners Human Performance program, especially undergrad,
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  and then going into grad, school is more based around cardiac
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  rehab. So one of the one professors
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  really pushed me to go into the hospital and work with basically
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  heart heart attack, patients, with stroke patients and stuff
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  like that. But I realized As quickly as
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  athletic training major, and once I'd gotten banged up my
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  freshman year, as I do not want to work with help on healthy or
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  sick people my entire life and that's when I was like let me go
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  him performs. Let me help prevent people from
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  being that way. Oh yeah, that's interesting.
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  Yeah, it sounds like knob not want to work with that started.
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  Going back from that route and I started thinking physical
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  therapy and it had a little internship that I was doing
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  locally. It near Southern and what
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  stopped me from doing that was I had to take A cast off a woman's
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  foot. That was 6 months late.
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  You got to cut that cast off and the skin peeled off with it and
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  the smell of it. I, we had to shut the room down
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  the therapy room for the entire day have special cleaning
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  service come in. It was probably the worst
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  smelling thing I've ever witnessed and that point is
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  like, nope, not dealing with physical therapy.
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  I listen, I'm a big obviously, maybe not obviously podcast
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  listener. And one of my favorite podcast
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  is stuff. You should know and the other
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  day there episode was on smell-o-vision.
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  And I'm so thankful that is never not more than right now.
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  In my more thankful that that is never become a thing because you
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  literally you just described it there for like 20 seconds and I
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  was like, oh yeah, that but I can't, I can't imagine like oh
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  yeah, yeah, that would change some careers, some thoughts on
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  careers there, that's for sure. How are you?
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  It's interesting. The for your afford, a hurdler.
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  And by the way, 50/50 130. Yep, you know, little know Fact,
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  I actually, in high school ran 5130, that's actually my PR as
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  well. Okay, now that was in 110
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  hurdles though, so I'm not sure how that fares, but it was that
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  actually maybe my close to my actual PR in the the 110 hurdles
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  terrible, it's terrible. But what it's interesting and we
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  don't talk as his nose but as a philosophy of coaching and we're
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  going to step back to your high school coaching as well.
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  You know that 404 and a hurdle to 800 and not 15 x 15.
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  Hundred I think is universally one from Dorsey.
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  Yeah kind of like universally like that's a distance event.
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  It's a fast distance of it but it's a distance but that 800 is
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  that bridge of like some people like nope you got to be a 400
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  person to run the inner fast or nope.
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  You got to be a 1500 M Mi person to run the enemy too fast.
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  So it's just interesting there. What was your experience like
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  coming out of high school coaching wise and then inside of
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  college coaching wise? In terms of me being trained or
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  yeah, you know more like how you were trained and not how like oh
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  I was trained as a sprinter or distance person but like you
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  know did you know there's a lot of different styles of coaching
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  from nurturing to military ask, you know, my way or the highway
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  collaboratively, what kind of you know, kind of as you are
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  coming out of your you know, your last couple years and
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  you're going into coaching your built based on how you were
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  coached. So I'm I want to figure out like
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  how weird you coached, what kind of what did you see a coach was
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  and so there you for you probably mimicked either towards
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  it or completely opposite of it. If it was you know style that
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  you didn't like do high school. I had a I had a young coach, he
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  was ejected out of college and he did not know anything about
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  the hurdles to not knowing about 400 years.
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  Actually, more of a hundred guy that he was dating.
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  The older sister of one of our top girls that end up going to
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  Hartford for the multi. Why.
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  So he was big into knowing the jumps, knowing short, Sprint's,
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  knowing and trying to figure out the hurdles for the multi and we
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  I was in school here in New York, Upstate New York.
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  We didn't have a all of the track.
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  And at the time we had one of the old Cinder track strain on,
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  I think we had maybe three or four hurdles and we had the
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  traditional schedule where you have some of the multiplier,
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  some of the invitations, go to on Saturdays.
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  But we really compete a lot Tuesdays and Thursdays at Your
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  hand time. So it was one of those things
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  where a Tuesdays and Thursdays, where workout days, Monday?
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  Wednesday was kind of the up, go 4:20 minute run it just go for
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  easy, our number. Let's try to fix something of
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  what you're doing over hurdle, but him not really understanding
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  hurdles. Hey, you just get comfortable,
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  jumping them comfortable running between and going at them fast.
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  So high school, I manager on 54 seconds in the form of hurdles
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  and I joke, I did it running on the road did not my senior year,
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  junior year chose not to do any winners winter sport.
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  So it's kind of like, oh, how do I get better?
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  Well, people talk about how I look like a distance Runner, so
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  let me put something on him, Willie.
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  Let me put a mask on. With the weight room, didn't
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  have a shrink condition coaches, kind of going into what I felt
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  like, put a hurdle in the gym. Got in trouble because I was
• 13:54
  straight from the gym floor, smashing hurdles break and
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  Harold's, having the metal scratching up the, call your
• 14:00
  opinion. So that that was always fun,
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  getting yelled at for that stuff but He was a coach that made me
• 14:06
  fall in love with this work. Yeah.
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  How so because you're saying is you hear about it?
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  Yeah. I mean and it was it was me my
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  junior year. There was a there's actually a
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  freshman or sophomore forward a hurdler girl, that when I would
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  look back a couple years ago, she ran 63 seconds as a freshman
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  or sophomore, What year she was. So she was pretty quick and
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  probably could have gone places. I think she just got overwhelmed
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  with a sport in high school and it's kind of quit and went on to
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  do other stuff. There's myself there was her and
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  then there was the multi to end up going to University of
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  Hartford. And it was like us, three with a
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  coach that every Saturday was. Okay, this is your big me, go,
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  come key. And it was one of those things
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  where we had fun doing it. He, it was the lifestyle that we
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  had created with. Oh this is a fun thing to do.
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  He's my other sport was soccer which I had started early on in
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  my life that was my family sport so it was going to college.
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  It was deciding to do my going to go play soccer.
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  Am I going to go on? On track and so that's what I
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  mean about like style. So this feels like you correct.
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  Me were appropriate. This wasn't necessarily this
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  High School coach of yours wasn't necessarily a technical
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  coach, maybe wasn't the jobs, but as far as your events, but
• 15:21
  was, was very nurturing in competitive driven for you guys
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  are like, okay, it's Saturday, go component.
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  Yeah, go when, and that is what helped you.
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  Your words. There I fell in love with the
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  sport because of that. Yep.
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  Yeah, that's it's interesting because when we talk about
• 15:38
  different styles of coaches and again not the X's and O's
• 15:41
  portion but the you know, the style that you're going to be
• 15:43
  are you going to be the type of coach that knows every in and
• 15:46
  out every angle where the body supposed to be and shin angles
• 15:50
  and Bubba although you know those things are important or
• 15:53
  are you going to be a the stereotypical raw cheerleading
• 15:58
  type of coach that is also important.
• 16:00
  Having trust built with your athletes is important and
• 16:03
  positivity is important. I think the truly Elite coaches
• 16:07
  and you can define a lead in different ways.
• 16:10
  Do both in a very competent manner, but this seemed like
• 16:13
  someone who was like, all right. Maybe I don't know everything
• 16:15
  about the hurdles and because of a lot of other factors, maybe
• 16:20
  I'm not going to get into every little thing about the hurdles.
• 16:23
  I know, Sprints and jumps almost over there, but I got to coach
• 16:26
  these kids. So, okay, if I can't technically
• 16:29
  teach them. Well then I'm going to, I'm
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  going to make them believe in themselves and I'm gonna make
• 16:32
  them get hyped up for the And with the actual race itself.
• 16:36
  Yeah. Go ahead.
• 16:38
  It's always visitors on the podcast, everybody trying to get
• 16:41
  on I and I could comes. Got an answer.
• 16:43
  Exactly. Yeah.
• 16:44
  Well, that's very true. Yeah, coach.
• 16:46
  How are you doing? We need to pause and need to do
• 16:48
  something. I get it.
• 16:51
  Yeah. So but that's interest that's
• 16:53
  where I'm trying to get at is like okay because so that's how
• 16:55
  your base going into colleges. Your you gotta like, okay I may
• 16:59
  be working on, I recognize that my coach maybe doesn't know air
• 17:03
  quotes there, everything but boy, Boy, I probably run through
• 17:06
  a brick wall for them if they told me that was the right thing
• 17:09
  to do. Now go into your college
• 17:11
  coaching, how did that? So you kind of have like, this
• 17:14
  is what a track coach does. Did it follow suit in college?
• 17:17
  Or did you get his different style?
• 17:20
  It's debatable. So it was, it was interesting
• 17:24
  getting recruited out of high school and I was told by
• 17:26
  Southern Connecticut, former coaches, the way to get a
• 17:31
  scholarship, which 154 flat in the front of her house.
• 17:35
  Us. And I was okay, set my goals.
• 17:39
  Nobody else in really knew about that, like 54 flash my goal,
• 17:42
  like I'm going to prove this case.
• 17:43
  There was one of those things were, I was looking at a couple
• 17:46
  different schools and what bunch of D3 school has reached out to.
• 17:49
  Hey, look expecting New York, come here, come here and like I
• 17:52
  don't want to run division, three nothing against that.
• 17:54
  I just need some Aid to help pay for going to other than my
• 17:59
  academics. Let me have some a to help pay
• 18:01
  for what I'm about to do is looking at military academies.
• 18:05
  Something That and just got told hey, that the military's most
• 18:08
  important, it's not going to be running track very well.
• 18:11
  That turned me away from that it was so I actually narrowed it
• 18:14
  down to a couple different schools and it was either
• 18:17
  Southern Connecticut or Yukon and what turn me away from Yukon
• 18:21
  was coach, Roy love him to death.
• 18:23
  He's awesome guy. He had sent me an email.
• 18:27
  That said that, let me know how your indoor season goes.
• 18:30
  And I was like, okay, I was like, coach Roy.
• 18:32
  Hey, tell you. Unfortunately, my school is in
• 18:34
  sponsor and or Accurate, not a big enough, school got the email
• 18:37
  back. Best luck to your future and I
• 18:40
  was like, okay, now I'm going to go to Southern Connecticut,
• 18:43
  another school in Connecticut, it's going to compete a lot
• 18:47
  against Uconn and I had a little bit of a vendetta against you
• 18:50
  guys yet sounds like everything. Yeah, I got through my heat.
• 18:54
  I'm not losing to that. Yeah and it was it was a thing
• 18:56
  where that was that was the case I choose to lose them but will
• 19:01
  write was the sprinters coach at Southern Connecticut and He had
• 19:05
  got my contact from going to a Springfield College Fair for
• 19:09
  athletic trainers. He wrote me a handwritten letter
• 19:12
  saying. Hey, I'd really like to have you
• 19:13
  here, but here's a goal. You gotta run 54 flat to get a
• 19:16
  squirt. It's a scholarship money.
• 19:18
  There's another hurdle that we have was running 52 seconds.
• 19:21
  He's like, so he's going to be here next year.
• 19:24
  Turns out they use his eligibility at the conference
• 19:26
  Championship, so he was going to get his fifth year because they
• 19:28
  need a 4x4. Hmm.
• 19:30
  So he went ran the 40 for me to help him make National meet
• 19:34
  coach, right? Retired.
• 19:36
  Hmm. The day after he retired, Iran
• 19:38
  54 clap Oh wow! Me not knowing I call him up.
• 19:43
  Hey, I'm at the, I'm at the New York state has a art class
• 19:46
  Championship to go to the state championship and call him up.
• 19:50
  But hey, I just ran a 54 flat. Well, I'll let the next coach
• 19:54
  know. He's like great.
• 19:55
  I'm heading to the beach. Unfortunately.
• 19:59
  Coach Malone and I just decided we're retiring from Southern
• 20:02
  Connecticut yesterday. What did you feel?
• 20:05
  I mean because, you know, I love the.
• 20:07
  I was really fearful that you were going to give me the story
• 20:09
  of they told, you run 54 flat, and you did it and they didn't
• 20:12
  give you what they said. That's always a fear of mine.
• 20:14
  That's that's not the case here at some case.
• 20:16
  But you're, you know, the words a coach.
• 20:18
  So this is why you're not a lowly coach and all this kind of
• 20:21
  things because the words, you say to young people mean
• 20:25
  something else. Is this coach said, you run, 54,
• 20:29
  flat, and that it feels like that that 54 burned in your
• 20:32
  head, like, okay. I've got a goal.
• 20:35
  I am I had on a dartboard in my bedroom.
• 20:37
  Yeah, I will turn every if I don't hit 54, it ain't good
• 20:39
  because I didn't do everything for right.
• 20:42
  Because that coach said that, that coach said 5353 would have
• 20:45
  been your number 55, whatever, you know, that burned in your
• 20:48
  head. And so, you've been driving
• 20:50
  driving driving towards that. You hit it, you call the coach
• 20:54
  friendly. I love that.
• 20:55
  Yeah, and they say, yeah, hey, congratulations, I'll let the
• 21:00
  next staff know. Number, you're an 18 year old
• 21:02
  kid whenever we eat. Your kids know nothing.
• 21:05
  I know in 80 90 I thought I knew everything but you know nothing.
• 21:07
  So here's this person. You're kind of going to use the
• 21:11
  word idolizing. I don't want to put words in my
• 21:13
  mouth but I'm saying, you know, like you're like oh man, you
• 21:14
  said 50 54 then 54 is the number and they say, hey, I'm not going
• 21:19
  to be here. I'll let the next coaching staff
• 21:20
  knows, how did that feel? I wasn't sure.
• 21:23
  Like I was like, okay, I'm so like we had already deposited at
• 21:26
  the school of cell like that it was I mean it's met at this
• 21:29
  point. So almost June and I was like,
• 21:32
  rarely deposit. It's okay like I'm Gonna go
• 21:34
  there and my parents like, well, if you don't get the scholarship
• 21:37
  money we'll figure it out like we had already decided we're
• 21:39
  going there. Yeah, so make it work, you know.
• 21:42
  Yeah. So I end up there and then I
• 21:47
  think within the first couple days they decided to school, I
• 21:52
  had hired coach want to be the assistant coach for the year and
• 21:56
  he was told by the new head coach they hey he's like he's
• 21:58
  like I got this hurdler. Coming in, he was told he's
• 22:00
  running back. I tried to talk to the head
• 22:01
  coach then you want and he was like, I just told That he's
• 22:05
  hearing a 54 and he was promised.
• 22:06
  Money is like I want you to meet with him and see what we decide.
• 22:10
  So I just walk across the street to more field house, right?
• 22:13
  And I didn't I didn't know anything about how I walk and
• 22:15
  stuff like that and he it was a funny.
• 22:18
  He he could see out the window to watch me walk across.
• 22:20
  Oh, I'm texting back and forth like yeah, I'm on my way.
• 22:23
  So I go over there and he described it at like a year or
• 22:27
  two later described. As like yeah, kid.
• 22:28
  Wayne probably 140 pounds comes bouncing across the track or
• 22:33
  across the road. He's Like, he didn't, he didn't
• 22:35
  look like he had any sort of like, no spring in him.
• 22:38
  He was like, it was all Springs, ready to go?
• 22:41
  And so he knew I had that had the Springs.
• 22:44
  He's like, we just had to put some more power behind him.
• 22:47
  So he's like, yeah, we can give you give you whatever money we
• 22:50
  had left, and was it was it necessarily enough ruin and now
• 22:54
  they're coaching like, well, dang, I wish I had gotten more,
• 22:56
  you know, it, but there's just the every kid, but I was just so
• 22:58
  happy to, oh, shoot this. This is still true.
• 23:01
  I can still get this money that I was promised for I did, you
• 23:04
  know, she was a quick connection took all year that year to run
• 23:09
  54 again until it pops Championship to win as a
• 23:11
  freshman. But luckily UMass Lowell had a
• 23:14
  bunch of kids redshirted so that was able to happen.
• 23:16
  But there's one of those things where I went into Southern
• 23:20
  Connecticut with what which like you took said it's another
• 23:24
  perennial Powerhouse, division 2 and not not understanding track.
• 23:30
  Hmm, ever run against fast people and now all of a sudden
• 23:33
  I'm throwing Into running with kids that had run just as fast
• 23:37
  me if not faster, some little bit slower and everybody
• 23:39
  something like yeah, you're going to be the next best guy
• 23:41
  and like there's no way. Like I don't know what I'm
• 23:43
  doing, I'm a lost freshman, but I was fortunate enough to catch
• 23:47
  any kind of be able to be like their fourth or fifth.
• 23:50
  Best guy to be able to throw on relays every single weekend and
• 23:54
  one of my favorite best friends chain partner.
• 23:56
  I remember hearing him in the background, be like, coach get
• 23:59
  Logan off the relay He's not running well and Coach, moans
• 24:02
  like no, trust me. He's going to come through like
• 24:04
  this is going to work and so I see the my train party music.
• 24:08
  Not he's terrible right now, get rid of them but we can't we
• 24:11
  can't run the 40 for with them. Well, ended up, All-American
• 24:14
  leadoff leg freshman year outdoors and were like, okay?
• 24:19
  So then that trickle together throughout my whole career like
• 24:21
  okay, I'm a 4x4 guy, running the four-legged dmr's.
• 24:25
  Mmm, we're top three in the nation, but what was burning me
• 24:30
  was Well, the neck, the next goal is to make the national
• 24:33
  meet in the Fallen hurdles which didn't happen to my junior year
• 24:37
  and it was one of those things where in the east coast you're
• 24:40
  running 52 seconds at that time. And you one of the top guys, and
• 24:46
  it's back to what I was facing high school or it's like, what
• 24:48
  who had to race? Who can I go beep?
• 24:51
  Then that's why I had gotten into it like okay, I can go in a
• 24:53
  race. But am I prepared for the next
• 24:56
  level? And it turned into get to
• 24:59
  Nationals and yeah, I'd run. Well, I'd be a little bit tired,
• 25:02
  but I'd compete and I didn't top 10.
• 25:05
  I'd play stopping become an All-American, so it was back and
• 25:09
  forth the last two years with that sort of mindset.
• 25:12
  That's cool. I'm curious.
• 25:13
  This is a little fast forward to here because we haven't even
• 25:16
  started the actual coaching Journey here yet, but you said
• 25:20
  it is just kind of popped my head when you said you were in
• 25:22
  54 out of high school. School and then that freshman
• 25:25
  year and he described yourself as a lost freshman, which I
• 25:28
  think if we all think about to our freshman year, we were all
• 25:31
  lost in some form or fashion, some of the longer than others
• 25:35
  and some shorter. But boy freshman year college is
• 25:37
  a whole different ball. I don't care how big of a high
• 25:39
  school you went to, but responsibilities had no
• 25:41
  knowledge is different. Yeah, but you said, it took
• 25:44
  until I think you said either. I think he's a conference when
• 25:47
  you ran 54 again. Do you see that often?
• 25:52
  Where it takes? Someone regardless of talent
• 25:57
  like whether they were a superstar or you know beginner
• 26:00
  that it takes later into their freshman year for them to start
• 26:04
  hitting their PRS is that common?
• 26:06
  I believe so yeah I think why is that?
• 26:09
  I have a theory but I want to hear what you think.
• 26:13
  I think there's different training philosophy is going on.
• 26:15
  There's different styles, different volumes of training
• 26:19
  different intensities. More specificity going on And
• 26:25
  one of the biggest things I always look at is they're no
• 26:28
  longer as a coach, I realized it.
• 26:30
  Now you no longer with Mom and Dad at night, there's other
• 26:34
  outside factors, then the coach as a whole is trying to figure
• 26:38
  out, okay? Are they sleeping the same way?
• 26:40
  Are they eating the same way? What's their extracurricular
• 26:44
  activities looking like? You know what I mean?
• 26:47
  And yeah, that there's so much that plays into it.
• 26:49
  It's trying to help them get back to and they may never get
• 26:53
  back to the same way that they were in high.
• 26:54
  In terms of their lifestyle but now we just make them better as
• 26:58
  athletes. So that's that's good.
• 27:00
  That's, that's not my was that my I guess that's.
• 27:06
  That's important though. I think you're right.
• 27:07
  You know, you think about, it's much easier to stay up till 1:00
• 27:10
  2:00 o'clock at night passed that in college.
• 27:13
  It's easier to access to alcohol is easier.
• 27:16
  Not everybody's doing that understand but, you know, that's
• 27:18
  a part of it stress of exams and the same, if not more More
• 27:24
  generally being away from home. Yeah, yeah.
• 27:27
  And good point about stress of like, you know, Mom Mom dad's
• 27:31
  not home when I go, you know, when I go back to my dorm their
• 27:33
  mothers not there you don't get to talk to him every day or see
• 27:36
  them every day. You're getting hugged every day.
• 27:37
  Yeah, that's interesting because, you know, it on the
• 27:40
  outside you would think like, okay, you have a kid who you
• 27:43
  know most track kids, most not all are still only doing track
• 27:49
  call. It may be a February or March
• 27:51
  through May or June depending on the state.
• 27:54
  It maybe they're playing another sport, maybe they're not some
• 27:57
  are not so some are not doing any sport until March and then
• 28:01
  they're doing track and then they get recruited and you think
• 28:03
  oh man. Now you're in start practice
• 28:05
  that call it Labor Day. We have all this fall to
• 28:09
  compete, you're going to go through indoor season, you're
• 28:12
  going to compete going to compete at a higher.
• 28:14
  Like you're going to have, you're going to have to be
• 28:16
  better because you're going to competing, it's more better
• 28:18
  kids, why aren't you PR in from the jump?
• 28:22
  And, and I, and You know, and it can be discouraging as well.
• 28:26
  Here's my my thought, here's my guest.
• 28:28
  You tell me is the co I've been coached in forever.
• 28:31
  So you're the, you're the expert here on this one.
• 28:33
  I think there is a difference in motivation.
• 28:38
  I can give you that as well. Yeah, when you're coaching or
• 28:40
  when you're competing in high school, Mom and Dad.
• 28:44
  Generally speaking are at every meet friends and families,
• 28:47
  friends and Friends families are there.
• 28:51
  You know, that's why when you go to a high school me there's a
• 28:52
  lot of people in the stands and the college.
• 28:54
  Not, you know, we don't our families.
• 28:56
  Look at the travel as much. We don't have as many fans as
• 28:58
  other sports, unfortunately, at this point.
• 29:00
  So there's a different motivation to it.
• 29:03
  And I think that takes a while to find out.
• 29:06
  Like, oh, I used to run track because I like when Mom and Dad
• 29:09
  clap for me or my, my teammate was happy for me and now because
• 29:13
  like you did you just described them as an example of where the
• 29:17
  teammate was not rooting for you.
• 29:18
  Get Logan off the floor by floor and that would almost never
• 29:22
  happen in high school. Now Yeah, yeah, right, yeah,
• 29:25
  absolutely. In high schools, probably like,
• 29:27
  oh man, I wish we could do an 8 by 4 because I want Joey and
• 29:31
  Tommy on the team too, right? So I think there is a change
• 29:35
  that has to occur for athletes. Again, generally speaking where
• 29:39
  they are competing for others, like, oh, I, you know, my mom's
• 29:44
  happy friends, are happy. I'm happy to be part of a team
• 29:47
  to like, oh, there's no one else here.
• 29:49
  It's me. I know, I'm on this team.
• 29:51
  And yes, there's for before. There's team, there's Conference
• 29:53
  teams. And Things like that.
• 29:55
  But I have to be a better. 100 meter Runner or 800-meter
• 29:58
  Runner. Like there's no one else here.
• 30:00
  It's me. I gotta do the things, which
• 30:02
  then starts playing into. I got to sleep, I got to eat
• 30:04
  right things like that, that's how I've always thought, it's
• 30:06
  just different and even different when you go to the
• 30:10
  next level, like for the elites and stuff, I think that's why
• 30:13
  you see amazing things happen at like World Champs and Olympics
• 30:20
  because as an elite Runner you have no team.
• 30:22
  There are no teams at this point.
• 30:24
  You know, you can say you run for team Adidas, or team Nike,
• 30:26
  but yelling a team. Sorry, it's just who you you're
• 30:29
  employed. But when we get to, to World
• 30:32
  Champs team in Olympics, we have Team.
• 30:35
  You say, we're all wearing that USA flag.
• 30:38
  Now I'm running for someone like is becomes a camaraderie effect.
• 30:42
  So anyway, I just thought about that.
• 30:44
  When you said that, I was like, man, it's like that's hard.
• 30:46
  I completely agree because I even looking back or what we're
• 30:50
  the transition we're in right now.
• 30:51
  Like we had a conference last week.
• 30:54
  And then we're getting a last chance need this week, but more
• 30:57
  than half the team is now home because finals were done and so
• 31:01
  I write him put the message out to Tim lahaye.
• 31:03
  Now is where you got to find that intrinsic motivation like
• 31:05
  yeah. Driving you.
• 31:06
  If you're if you're in a last chance me trying to hit another
• 31:09
  fashion Mark how are we going to do that without your teammates
• 31:11
  with you? Yeah, there's less people now.
• 31:13
  Yeah, absolutely. Alright so so the Connecticut
• 31:17
  state, you your your last few years, you kind of coaches,
• 31:22
  giving you a stopwatch the coaches.
• 31:23
  Big on having alumni stay around.
• 31:25
  So are you at this point? Now I'm going to be a track
• 31:29
  coach or you still may be exploring different products.
• 31:31
  I mean absolutely I was like it's definitely I'm want to go
• 31:34
  into chat coaching in one of the things that he pushed for me was
• 31:38
  to start paying. We had a job and Gilder was
• 31:40
  there at the time as an assistant coach and he was
• 31:43
  coaching more the short Sprint's, short hurdles and
• 31:45
  Coach volunteers a hazy. I understand.
• 31:48
  He's like, you had, you understand my ways right now
• 31:50
  with the 400 400 hurdles. He's like, but I need you to
• 31:53
  Kind of be monitoring and shadowing other coaches to help
• 31:58
  you understand more than just one event or that's because I
• 32:01
  need you to be able to if you move on and when you move on to
• 32:05
  be able to be valuable enough to know there, then she's like, I'm
• 32:08
  not sure you want to go to jumps.
• 32:09
  Make sure you want to go and watch just more multi stuff.
• 32:12
  He's like, buddies, they need no other event.
• 32:13
  So, I me being Sprinter mindset and against at the time against
• 32:20
  jumpers printer mentality or sprinted versus distance.
• 32:23
  I do. I'm going to watch Justice
• 32:24
  friends at the time so it we had some pretty good hurdlers and
• 32:29
  stuff and shorts Runners going on at Southern.
• 32:31
  It was the kind of like the rebuilding of that what's been
• 32:34
  seen, the success there recently.
• 32:37
  So it's kind of able to just hang out a practice, how help
• 32:40
  Joe with all the moving wickets around and understanding
• 32:43
  haywire. And that's where I started
• 32:45
  learning. Why are we doing this stuff?
• 32:48
  So at that point, it was like a year year and a half of working
• 32:52
  with him. And that's where he's like.
• 32:54
  Okay, this this is gonna be my Niche.
• 32:56
  This is I'm going to be Sprint's hurdles and definitely go that
• 33:00
  route with coaching. So so a lot of coaching
• 33:04
  education to me, is what I call formal and informal formal be in
• 33:07
  the you know, certificate route, the u.s. atf's USTA Altius out
• 33:12
  this things like that informal. I consider like peer to peer and
• 33:18
  things like that. So you're doing a lot of
• 33:20
  informal coaching education like your now instead of just like
• 33:23
  being Barked at Logan go, run this.
• 33:25
  Go do this. It's like, okay.
• 33:26
  Now I'm administering workouts and it sounded like your mind
• 33:30
  flipped of like, oh well, I'm now.
• 33:31
  Let me understand why we're doing this as well.
• 33:34
  I think that it was perfect timing, just because I was still
• 33:37
  a student, finishing my grad school, and I had do Vin a lot
• 33:42
  with the exercise science in knowing the science of how the
• 33:46
  bodies what's going on in the body, given certain workouts
• 33:49
  given certain changes the blood. It was like, wait a second, why
• 33:53
  are we doing? In this with the shorts friends,
• 33:55
  put this with the long Sprints and others Tennessee's volume
• 33:58
  differences. Like why is this app?
• 34:00
  You need this versus this happy even though they're in the same
• 34:03
  event. Oh yeah.
• 34:04
  Yeah, since interest it was a good it was I don't think I
• 34:09
  actually went to grad school for to go just a fragile thing was
• 34:14
  more so that time building of me being and we say hey the grass
• 34:18
  was important. It's going to definitely help me
• 34:19
  with my career, different coaching different types of
• 34:21
  athletes with knowing the science behind.
• 34:23
  Him. But I was also knowing more of
• 34:25
  the wise, through the actual coaching side and learning more
• 34:28
  of the art of the coaching of itself.
• 34:31
  Yeah. There's the, the books, I like
• 34:33
  learning the things and then there's the lab and getting in
• 34:35
  there and getting your hands dirty and figuring out.
• 34:37
  Yeah, so what did you do after that time?
• 34:39
  What was the first step to getting into actual coaching,
• 34:43
  like, like paid coaching? So I was at Yale University at
• 34:46
  the springtime. Meet rainy day, just standing
• 34:49
  there. I think we're watching jumps and
• 34:51
  Shanae Williams Susan did. Do ads, New Haven.
• 34:54
  She came out to me as I hey, welcome to the dark side.
• 34:58
  I was like, what does that mean? And she's like, you want to come
• 35:02
  across the road and help me coach?
• 35:04
  He Kevin the sure I left there a couple years before that, a gone
• 35:08
  coaching issues. So they were looking for a new
• 35:11
  Sprint's coach and I was like, and I was like, what's the
• 35:14
  position? So, head men's coach doing no
• 35:16
  way. There's no way.
• 35:17
  I'm ready for that. I'm like, I'm 20.
• 35:18
  Wow, I'm 25 years old. Should know.
• 35:21
  Shit. I got you don't worry.
• 35:23
  So, She's like just fill out the application.
• 35:25
  She's like, and we'll get things moving.
• 35:27
  I was like, okay, so not me. Like, yeah, like, I want to make
• 35:30
  money. I don't want to just sit here
• 35:32
  being a not even named G, a couple, right?
• 35:37
  Volunteer volunteer, and working all these, Physical Therapy
• 35:40
  stuff all day then trying to come back and train and I was
• 35:43
  like, I can go make money and it was interesting because that
• 35:46
  year I had actually run well enough to get to get not
• 35:51
  necessarily A Center for USA's but I knew I was hanging up on
• 35:54
  the list that I can go out to USA's, and for the fauna hurdles
• 35:58
  and I was like, I started booking everything up and
• 36:02
  getting ready to go to that meet and Debbie Trinity University
• 36:05
  New Haven her and Robin Salters. They called me up one day and
• 36:07
  they're like, hey, like like schedule you for an interview
• 36:10
  for this date, and that date was the same day.
• 36:12
  I was about to fly out, of course.
• 36:14
  Uh, and I was like, so decision time.
• 36:17
  I was like, am I ready to go run really fast?
• 36:20
  Or am I ready to go? Make some money and I I honestly
• 36:24
  have no idea what I would have chosen.
• 36:25
  What did you do? So, I went to try to make money.
• 36:28
  Yeah, why? Wow.
• 36:29
  That year, I was living off of credit card and living life a
• 36:33
  dumb way of just yeah. Everything's I was just noise.
• 36:36
  Make enough money to deliver. I had enough to pay rent.
• 36:40
  What would you have done? I'm always, I mean, that's I
• 36:43
  think that's interesting these Forks in the road where we have
• 36:47
  decisions to make and it's one thing when an athlete wants to
• 36:51
  pursue making the world. Or the Olympics.
• 36:54
  Of course, my, it's hard to say, no.
• 36:58
  I think what I was realizing is 51 wasn't going to cut it, ok?
• 37:02
  That's what I'm going to ask you because they do you want to slow
• 37:04
  because when a girl when I when I guess a a kid when a young
• 37:07
  person says, Hey I want to pursue the Olympics and they
• 37:11
  have a shot. And it's like man, even if they
• 37:12
  don't make it, I don't want them to be a 35, 40 year old and
• 37:15
  regret it. I'm here.
• 37:17
  Having a conversation with a good friend of mine.
• 37:18
  Dexter fog, Dexter was one of the top earners in the country
• 37:21
  here which made him still. L like, you know, seventh in the
• 37:25
  country, he was 1311, I think was his PR or something like
• 37:28
  that and and I came over the years but basically he had not
• 37:31
  made the Olympic team from the trials and he's like, yeah, I'm
• 37:33
  trying to decide, am I still going to do this and I was like,
• 37:36
  you know you're not making a one-year decision.
• 37:38
  I was like in track your but you're making a for your
• 37:39
  decision. I can you go to the next Olympic
• 37:41
  trials and try to make that team and things like that.
• 37:44
  He ended up going over the next four years.
• 37:46
  I can't did not make the Olympic team.
• 37:47
  But, you know, again, 1311 who's he's one of the greatest
• 37:50
  herders. We never had, you know, 13 11,
• 37:52
  13, 14 We had a young man here, who work force, a javelin
• 37:58
  thrower, Tim Glover. And he was like me and he goes,
• 38:02
  I think I think I need to stop working here and pursue the
• 38:06
  Olympics and he's at 85 + m to throw her.
• 38:09
  So it's like he's got an actual shot here and it's like, man
• 38:12
  loved him. He so valuable to us, But I
• 38:16
  don't want him as a 40-year going, man.
• 38:18
  Why did I do this? Why did I go to perfect?
• 38:19
  Can always go back and profession to make money, you
• 38:22
  know. And so he did quit and he made
• 38:24
  the world Champs team. Which I mean like oh my God like
• 38:26
  you know you didn't make the Olympics but oh my God she made
• 38:28
  the number two, right? I mean you were super legit
• 38:31
  there. The number of people made World
• 38:32
  Champs team is still this many, right?
• 38:34
  So what I was wondering and you kind of touched on Logan you're
• 38:37
  51 seconds so you knew okay. I'm not making the team at 51
• 38:44
  assumably. I'm not making finals as a as a
• 38:47
  51. So I like your decision like to
• 38:50
  me that was a very smart and it's a tough decision for 25.
• 38:52
  People because still to compete in the u.s.
• 38:54
  TPM chips is again, that that group is still very small that
• 38:57
  competes in it so I can see it. I'm going to say easier but
• 39:02
  still hard decision. Yeah, I wonder if you were a 50
• 39:05
  flat. So that's on the cuss.
• 39:07
  You still be making the team at 50 flat.
• 39:09
  We had a lot of pretty girls thinking her turbines, but I
• 39:12
  think and I could be wrong here. I don't pay attention to it.
• 39:15
  This my new shh fifty or forty nine, nine might make finals,
• 39:18
  that they are Japan the yeah. It depends.
• 39:22
  Okay. So I wonder like if you were on
• 39:24
  that cusp of like okay like 50 that's another so that's a
• 39:27
  different Realms like okay? I know I'm not going to be
• 39:28
  tough, 3y can make finals. What what what do you think your
• 39:33
  decision would have been then you know, I don't know.
• 39:36
  I like going through my head at the time and yeah, I was tired
• 39:40
  of training. Fire training.
• 39:42
  I was like bye time to move on it's but obviously, I knew I was
• 39:47
  still going to be in the sport. It was just not doing it for
• 39:51
  just me. I was I maybe maybe this time.
• 39:53
  Just. Yeah.
• 39:54
  That so it turned into course my first big job interview, right?
• 40:01
  And I'm nervous as all it could be.
• 40:04
  And I remember going through the it was I show up and Debbie Chen
• 40:09
  who was 80th time Josh. Now retired.
• 40:11
  She works within the until he still so she might she might pop
• 40:14
  out and hear me. Yeah.
• 40:17
  She was selling her car. She was selling her BMW, so I
• 40:20
  show up and she's outside. It's she must had a post on
• 40:24
  Craigslist or something. She's put, she's outside,
• 40:26
  cleaning the windshield of her, and I'm like, I recognized her.
• 40:28
  She's like, she's supposed to be my interview.
• 40:30
  She not. What is she doing?
• 40:31
  You know. And so I sat down in her office,
• 40:34
  I real sitting and they're all waiting for than they're trying
• 40:36
  to college though. No one was telling you come to
• 40:38
  show you up just hold my BMW. I'm like We're like five minutes
• 40:42
  late on this interview, like it's what's this time on?
• 40:45
  You know, and so I we get through the whole thing.
• 40:48
  I'm sweating through the whole thing but they're asking me
• 40:51
  about training and I'm like, all right my education's gonna get
• 40:54
  me through this like before I learned an undergrad grad
• 40:57
  school, how I drink trans athlete learned honestly.
• 41:00
  Learning from coach Juan coaching and guilders like I'm
• 41:03
  setting this like I can answer these questions.
• 41:06
  Pass Me By recruiting, like, good luck.
• 41:07
  Never done it. Like hmmm it out though and
• 41:12
  we're getting through those types of conversations might
• 41:13
  never had to deal with it but I'll figure it out and that do
• 41:16
  is kind of like my motto going through a whole interview was
• 41:18
  like, I you kidding, you guys know I'm young, you know, I
• 41:22
  haven't had any experience with any of this sort of stuff other
• 41:25
  than training but we can figure it out and out.
• 41:30
  That was when I got done with that part, I'm walking out and
• 41:32
  ignore him or who was the distance coach there and And he
• 41:35
  said, oh yeah, he's like, show me all around campus.
• 41:37
  I'm like, okay. Like I don't think this went
• 41:39
  well, because they just realized I don't have the experience, you
• 41:42
  know, and day later. I get the phone call.
• 41:45
  Hey, yeah, we if you want the job, it's yours.
• 41:49
  And I was like, what did you think?
• 41:50
  When you get that call? I was that happy as I could
• 41:53
  possibly be. Because I'm like, here I am in
• 41:55
  my first job with then. At the same time I oh shoot, I'm
• 41:57
  a little nervous because I'm now the head men's track and field
• 42:00
  coach. Do you get either guys on the
• 42:02
  team that year that were older than me by out your eyes?
• 42:05
  Yeah, we had military guy. Come in, there's like, hey, I
• 42:07
  never use my eligibility. I want to, I want to rock right
• 42:11
  there. He's 33, 34 years old, I'm 25
• 42:13
  micro second. Yeah, what was the, the women's
• 42:18
  Coach That approached you about coming to the dark side.
• 42:21
  Hey, Williams Shanaya Linnaeus in a wheels.
• 42:25
  So, you know, a real superpower of coaches.
• 42:28
  And again, while you're never just a coach or just a lowly
• 42:31
  coach, I'll stop picking on you here in a little bit on that
• 42:34
  Stephen. But real superpower of a coach
• 42:37
  is being able to see something in someone else.
• 42:39
  Typically a young person as a coach down to an athlete that
• 42:42
  they can't yet see in themselves right.
• 42:45
  Shinae, this sounds like an issue.
• 42:50
  An example of where she saw something in you that you
• 42:53
  couldn't yet. See in yourself, what was, what
• 42:56
  was your relationship with Shanae?
• 42:57
  Like that? She she had watched you compete
• 43:00
  through as an athlete. Like she didn't just randomly go
• 43:03
  up to some guy named Logan and say, hey do you want to be the
• 43:05
  head men's coats? Like she had to have had some
• 43:07
  like, oh yeah, this guy can do it.
• 43:09
  So she she started coaching at a young age as well.
• 43:12
  Adding a recent New Haven and so she had watched me all through
• 43:15
  my college career running and it was okay.
• 43:19
  He's now in a coaching he's at a good school and I'm not sure if
• 43:23
  she's like, let's take him from the Rival school.
• 43:25
  I don't know. But she knew that, I was hungry
• 43:29
  here to start moving on and so it with when that all changed
• 43:34
  ish indeed like it was awesome. It was my first experience.
• 43:39
  We're going her. Obviously me being my first year
• 43:42
  doing it or first. Couple years coaching by myself
• 43:45
  at. Right.
• 43:46
  Not having to really I was being Being able to head a program
• 43:50
  where she was ahead of the women's.
• 43:52
  It was when the same through her and I definitely had our
• 43:54
  battles. We definitely went through some
• 43:56
  personal stuff for dealing with how to work with each other.
• 44:00
  And looking back at some situations are like, man, I was
• 44:04
  I way I wish you gu we could go back and change way but like
• 44:08
  like everything that happened with my career might happen for
• 44:10
  a reason. There's a reason why we had to
• 44:12
  deal with certain things. So it worked out.
• 44:14
  I think for both of us. How did you have battles?
• 44:17
  And what I mean by that, is, You're in a maybe this is
• 44:21
  perspective of you know, Logan today versus Logan that day
• 44:25
  because you're like, oh yeah, you know, I knew nothing.
• 44:27
  You know. I first time I was my first
• 44:29
  professional coaching job and I'm the head coach.
• 44:33
  It would seem like again these all from the outside looking in.
• 44:36
  So we're just kind of trying to dive it to the inside here that
• 44:38
  it would be like ocean a. Okay, what do you want me to do?
• 44:41
  Like not as her assistant coach because you're the head coach
• 44:44
  was like, oh man, you're welcome that into here.
• 44:46
  I was a young young man working with a female and it was almost
• 44:54
  seems like, no, I'm going to be in charge.
• 44:55
  I'm going to do this my way. I think is the best way, you
• 44:58
  know. Oops.
• 44:59
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 45:01
  So in that, I now again perspective looking back you
• 45:04
  know hindsight's 20/20 but now you have experienced things like
• 45:07
  that how did that shape you like when you talk about battles like
• 45:11
  maybe had to take your licks appropriately, like you had to
• 45:14
  you know were wrong and all up in some situations.
• 45:17
  How is that had that experience evolved?
• 45:21
  You not change you because you got to be something for your not
• 45:24
  even a coach at this wall help. Well, I didn't involve you,
• 45:27
  we're working with her working with Debbie chin, erotic
• 45:30
  Salters, as being the Ada. One of the biggest things about
• 45:33
  them being the ideas, they came right out and say, Hey, listen,
• 45:35
  we're going to make you learn how to do everything.
• 45:38
  So no matter what other job you ever have to go to, it's going
• 45:41
  to be easier. Mmm.
• 45:42
  I knew with working with Administration are like this is
• 45:46
  going to be one of my toughest Administration so work that I
• 45:49
  actually have to do. So I was like okay brand-new to
• 45:52
  it. This is a lot of work.
• 45:53
  Now now I'm sitting here in Ashland and it's like, hey, I
• 45:55
  won't work. Don't tell her Edmund that.
• 45:58
  But do I want to be able to But it was only things where I knew
• 46:04
  and I now know how to do it all. In terms of looking at different
• 46:08
  ways to work with the compliance and obviously, it's always ever
• 46:11
  change something to kind of continue learning, but it was
• 46:13
  one of those things where it was like, wait a second, there's
• 46:16
  people that have gone through their whole career, not doing
• 46:19
  the stuff. Where is my dad?
• 46:20
  This is easy. But I know the facts behind this
• 46:23
  because I was forced to literally read through the books
• 46:26
  and for signing allies and stuff of how to how to go to For
• 46:32
  people within the Department's to get that stuff down there.
• 46:34
  Looking at the different rules of Eligibility, like it wasn't
• 46:37
  like clients just happen. I said, oh yeah, this is yes or
• 46:39
  no answers. There was no figured out.
• 46:42
  You're going to have to figure this out because press your
• 46:44
  career, if you're going to be in coaching you're going to want to
• 46:46
  know this because you may not have the same opportunities with
• 46:50
  needing to know, you know, you know that in a typical journey
• 46:54
  in a coach it's their 10th or 15th or 20th year, they become
• 46:59
  their first time head coach and my favorite question to all.
• 47:01
  Ways ask when we get to that point.
• 47:03
  Is were you ready? This is your first job out the
• 47:06
  gate. So I'm not going to ask that
• 47:07
  because I will assume and probably know you are not ready.
• 47:12
  When you look back at it now, how many years were you there at
• 47:15
  New Haven? Stay there for 22.
• 47:17
  So, in those two years now look about a quarter tank and looking
• 47:20
  back at it, what was one of the hardest things for you to learn?
• 47:24
  Like, when you talked about compliance and recruiting, and,
• 47:27
  you know, paperwork things like that.
• 47:29
  When you look, so you did scheduling budgeting you do
• 47:31
  things out. Never like, you didn't even
• 47:33
  think that a coach did that probably because, you know,
• 47:34
  you've never done it for me. It's so easy on his.
• 47:37
  Yeah, exactly. And now looking back, what was,
• 47:42
  you know, is people that are listening right now, there's
• 47:45
  going to be future head coaches. There's people who want to be a
• 47:47
  coach and don't know all the things that are entailed to do
• 47:50
  it when you look back now, like man, you know, what was the
• 47:51
  hardest part figuring out this was challenging for me.
• 47:55
  What would that be? You know what?
• 47:57
  It was was the interpersonal relationships.
• 47:59
  Oh interesting. Okay.
• 48:01
  Tell me. Any more, hey, you just knowing
• 48:04
  how to talk communicate. And not only just with the
• 48:09
  athletes but with the coaching staff and working through
• 48:13
  whatever, whatever issues were going to arise.
• 48:16
  We that time we dealt with disciplinary issues with
• 48:23
  athletes. And one person, one coach wanted
• 48:26
  to go this route with it one. Want to go this route
• 48:28
  administration, had their view on it and it was like, whee
• 48:32
  Spiritually. We dealt with a rape case and an
• 48:35
  accusation of rape. And it was like, okay, who's
• 48:39
  going to take the role like, like, I'm Amanda right to
• 48:42
  report. That's all I got to do.
• 48:43
  That's that's what you want, right?
• 48:44
  Just record it and hands are clean, but then it turned into.
• 48:48
  No, you have to decide what you want to do with your team, by
• 48:51
  the way, if this comes back this way, then you could this happen.
• 48:54
  You and I was in, and I was like, I'm too young to be
• 48:56
  dealing with this. I did not want to have to deal
• 48:58
  with. That at that time and too much
• 49:02
  going on in life to have to worry about that.
• 49:04
  But also understanding, hey, there's this could turn into
• 49:06
  lawsuits, this could turn into more accusations, that coming
• 49:11
  down the road if you don't do it the right way.
• 49:13
  And so I want to lean on Administration and the
• 49:15
  administration did not want that on their responsibilities.
• 49:19
  So, it came to kind of really touchy subject to, like, how do
• 49:22
  we get through this not through out here today, so coaching so
• 49:27
  spoiler. Don't know who worked out, huh?
• 49:29
  That one out, you know, it's interesting that that's where
• 49:32
  you went to first, and I love that, that's where you went to.
• 49:35
  We had the athletic director of Iowa State University on the
• 49:38
  podcast. And I asked him, I was like,
• 49:40
  hey, you know, you hire a lot of track coaches, you know, what do
• 49:43
  you, what do you look for when hiring a track coach?
• 49:46
  And, you know, he talked about he goes, you know, he goes
• 49:48
  honestly to X's and O's. He goes, That's table Stakes
• 49:50
  because I expect especially at this level of Big, 12, Etc.
• 49:54
  You know, I'm not even talking to you, if you don't, if I
• 49:56
  haven't seen that, you've made athletes better, he goes but Ely
• 50:00
  he goes this is a Athletics and you know specifically as we
• 50:04
  talked about coaching track and field is a people person's
• 50:07
  profession. He's like you're not just
• 50:10
  because you have to absolutely work with 18 to 22 and 17 to 22
• 50:13
  year. Old kid got to recruit right?
• 50:14
  He's like so absolutely you need to know how to work with young
• 50:17
  people. He's like but you also are going
• 50:19
  to be working with our compliance team and our
• 50:21
  admissions office, and our marketing team and you know are
• 50:25
  different associate ades. And deputies is like if you
• 50:28
  don't if you can I work within a team with other people.
• 50:32
  It doesn't matter how good you are at Exit.
• 50:34
  Oh, so that's an interesting. That's where you went.
• 50:36
  I love that favorite quote from the New Haven Administration.
• 50:39
  Was that your livelihood was in the minds and actions
• 50:44
  livelihood? You're okay.
• 50:46
  Oh, say that again I want to hear that again your your your
• 50:50
  livelihood was in the minds and actions of a 17 18 year old kid
• 50:57
  and they'll do anything they want to do.
• 51:00
  And that is why I got out of coaching.
• 51:04
  I was told he was like, man, when you're like I said I used
• 51:07
  say the word livelihood and your livelihood is based on the
• 51:09
  decisions of 17, 18 year old kids.
• 51:11
  Oh that's tough. You know.
• 51:13
  Now my livelihood is based on you guys making decision.
• 51:16
  It's a little better. It's a little better.
• 51:19
  I love that. Well so okay.
• 51:22
  So I'm gonna ask the inverse now there had to be, I'm assuming
• 51:26
  some part of the job that you've never done before that for you.
• 51:29
  You like butter, you just like, oh okay.
• 51:33
  I figured this out pretty quick. What was, maybe the more easier
• 51:36
  part or maybe more than natural part to learn of becoming a head
• 51:41
  coach of all the different duties that you have to do as a
• 51:43
  head coach? I would say the two would be
• 51:48
  first one to be periodization to training, but yeah, I'd studied
• 51:51
  that for basically six years. So it was me like, okay, I got
• 51:56
  it right training, no, big deal like an do they have to perform
• 51:59
  at Benson Nationals. How do you get somebody to be at
• 52:02
  their best? The 8 and the obviously gets
• 52:05
  trickier as you get into the faster times and stuff like that
• 52:08
  but when you're working with people that were a bunch of
• 52:10
  Walk-Ons, it's like okay how do you get them to perform?
• 52:14
  Or how do you get a walk-on to be able to maybe prepare to
• 52:16
  provisional marks like okay? That's some pretty General
• 52:18
  training. So that I would say that was
• 52:21
  one. The other one was honestly
• 52:23
  recruiting and early on. I was like, okay, at New Haven,
• 52:28
  it was one of those things where Where your scholarship?
• 52:31
  Budget wasn't all that high. She had a really convince people
• 52:34
  that they wanted to be there. Not only just for academics but
• 52:37
  they want to be able to run and we're in a competitive it was
• 52:40
  competitive at the conference at the time, the region.
• 52:44
  So it was one of those things of I hate losing.
• 52:48
  So how am I going to find enough people?
• 52:50
  And the team is small when I first got there and they were
• 52:53
  big thing, was how you got to go to bring the numbers or 30
• 52:55
  people. Hmm.
• 52:56
  And so they commit, my whole thing was like, all right, I got
• 52:59
  to convince them. 30 people to love love of sport as much as I
• 53:01
  do and we can talk about it all day long.
• 53:05
  And you can call them up at any time of day and say, hey, this,
• 53:08
  this is why you should come here.
• 53:09
  This is why I love it here. This is why you want to do this
• 53:11
  this way when work. Me because I'm this what we're
• 53:14
  going to do, it became very easy to build roster but what I
• 53:19
  quickly realized that building a roster was that without the aid
• 53:24
  to be in that conference. So we that for at the time, the
• 53:28
  way it was set up, it was like we're recruiting a bunch of
• 53:30
  students, not just students that were really invested in there.
• 53:35
  Academics which obviously they're going to college.
• 53:37
  They need to be, but how man, how much of that was going to be
• 53:40
  Talent? How much did that was going to
• 53:42
  be have the ability to really progress to be where I wanted to
• 53:46
  be? We're all through the other than
• 53:48
  my freshman indoor season. I was at the national
• 53:52
  championship every single year into an outdoor.
• 53:54
  So to me, Nationals is part of part of the trip, part of what
• 53:59
  you do in college. You make the national me, right?
• 54:03
  So now I'm at a school where Where my first year coaching, is
• 54:06
  a head coach into an outdoor. We don't make the national meat,
• 54:09
  and I'm sitting there watching all my friends that also went on
• 54:13
  in coaching, or watching. I coach is watching my own old
• 54:16
  teammates, they're still at Nationals.
• 54:19
  And I'm just sitting at home, twiddle, my thumb's trying to go
• 54:21
  to Memorial Day stuff, right? And I was okay, this is not fun.
• 54:26
  So it became a drive for mine of might go in my second year, how
• 54:29
  am I getting so many Nationals? And luckily, I had a girl that
• 54:32
  had been genetically meet on a 4x4.
• 54:35
  Who who felt that same way and if she had to drive the blood to
• 54:39
  do it. So it was one of those things
• 54:41
  where coach I want to be there too.
• 54:43
  So she didn't make it into a 42. Not all American had to deal
• 54:46
  with her going in ranked last at Nationals and coming in right
• 54:51
  around there and say, hey remember you're not a foreigner,
• 54:54
  an earphone, a hurdler. Hmm and so she made outdoorsy
• 54:57
  and of All American outdoors and it was like okay we made an
• 55:00
  indoor and outdoor now she graduated, what do we do?
• 55:04
  And I'm looking at the team like it's me rough-hewn.
• 55:07
  Telegraph year their recruits coming in just are not ready for
• 55:11
  it yet. They're going to need to be
• 55:12
  Juniors or seniors before they can think about it and like this
• 55:15
  is not where I want to be. So that's when I to be honest
• 55:18
  with a, all right, New Haven. It was a good learning.
• 55:21
  I don't want to be head coach. Right now, I want to, I want to
• 55:24
  be able to be in a good program and, and grow.
• 55:27
  So I had been talking with coaches and leiomyoma American
• 55:31
  and Nationals. Hey my assistants leaving.
• 55:34
  I need Assistant. You want to be my assistant, it
• 55:36
  was a strength coach position. So you want to be my friends
• 55:38
  coach and I'm like, you know, a, I see another school and the
• 55:42
  conference mmm. Lot of a lot of schools that
• 55:45
  there was one of the younger teams in the conference.
• 55:47
  They came in with a pretty, pretty good budget for
• 55:50
  recruiting and so a lot of teams in the conference like American
• 55:54
  and National all the international kids in the
• 55:56
  conference. And so, you know, as like this,
• 55:58
  this could be interesting, I would didn't know what was going
• 56:00
  to pay when start going to interview and I had actually
• 56:03
  asked coach Walton for ation at the time.
• 56:07
  Was a coach of the I don't know if I'm going to go there.
• 56:09
  I'm just looking around. It could try to get a pay raise
• 56:12
  at New Haven, but just don't know what I'm doing and week
• 56:15
  goes by and the old call me up. We went through the interview
• 56:19
  wasn't gonna be paid as much so I'm like, all right.
• 56:21
  I'm a young single guy. Let me let me look at what the
• 56:24
  cut and paste me look like a. Do I have is it going to be
• 56:26
  enough to live my sure? Okay.
• 56:28
  Enough to live but now all of a sudden I can take the stress of
• 56:31
  having to worry about dealing with The athletes and dealing
• 56:35
  with the program 24/7. And now I can just kind of coach
• 56:40
  my kids, the longer they stay out of trouble.
• 56:43
  Just do whatever my boss asked me and I'm safe.
• 56:46
  I'm good. Just coach fast kids and that
• 56:49
  was the big click was I was like now, I'm going to go to marry
• 56:52
  International. They recruit internationally I
• 56:54
  can bring in as long as he gives me the go about to do it.
• 56:57
  If I can find somebody fast internationally, bring them in
• 57:00
  and we're going to we're going to go to Nationals like that was
• 57:02
  the plan and With a week turnaround.
• 57:07
  Everything changed like, yep, go ahead.
• 57:08
  I see this is like November, but this is cross country.
• 57:11
  Oh wow, yeah, I meant, I'm up in Franklin, Pierce, for one cross
• 57:15
  country meet with New Haven, two weeks later, we go to the
• 57:18
  conference Championship and I'm showing up a completely
• 57:20
  different colors. Not so it didn't rub well with a
• 57:24
  lot of people in the conference. It's particularly my old head
• 57:28
  coach. The coached me for six years.
• 57:31
  He, we never really Talked it out but we it was mutual and I
• 57:37
  understood like, yeah, it was probably a jerk move to not let
• 57:39
  him know. Hey, I'm from the Rival, the
• 57:41
  closer rival in terms of competition because the STI just
• 57:46
  on the triple crown for the first time in the conference.
• 57:48
  And now all of a sudden, a guy that you coached is going to
• 57:51
  have good health, coach there sprinters and knowing, okay.
• 57:56
  Now all his knowledge that he had taught me in, this Prince is
• 57:59
  now going to go move to a hold of the school.
• 58:01
  You know, it's so funny to hear you explain.
• 58:04
  Lane that. And it's very common that it is
• 58:06
  not unique or whatever. So when I first did it was like,
• 58:09
  why is he mad at me? Like and it was more so
• 58:12
  interpersonal, communication. I was okay, I'm to myself.
• 58:16
  Let me just make my switch and yeah, but you would and it
• 58:20
  wasn't like people could just deal with it easily.
• 58:21
  It was wait a second. We never talk this out like he
• 58:24
  was my second dad for six years. Yeah, my parents were three
• 58:28
  hours away. It's just it's just interesting
• 58:30
  to tribalism that we have in sports for that.
• 58:33
  Because like, as your You're describing, I think and that's
• 58:36
  not uncommon heard that story for people like, oh, then I went
• 58:38
  to the conference and I didn't sit well with people above all
• 58:40
  this kind of stuff. And I'm thinking, you know, when
• 58:42
  a kid goes from Burger, King McDonald's, no one blinks an
• 58:46
  eye, no one says, always, you went to the competition when you
• 58:49
  go from IBM to Google. No one says Ah, you know,
• 58:52
  they'll say, maybe you got poached or whatever, but no
• 58:54
  one's like. I can't believe you know that I
• 58:57
  don't care that it was better for you and your family or
• 58:59
  desires my whole look towards Emily but like Look at the NFL,
• 59:07
  right? I was like this happens all the
• 59:09
  time all the time wet and I'm looking back on it.
• 59:13
  I was like what? I didn't do.
• 59:15
  We sit down and call up coach Bombay.
• 59:17
  Hey coached like this is what I'm getting to is.
• 59:20
  Did you need to I think if we had had don't know that, but I
• 59:27
  don't know because on one hand I'm with you on when you talk
• 59:32
  with interpersonal relationships, you know,
• 59:34
  relationships with people, on the other hand, I go back to
• 59:39
  what our most popular episode, Boo, schexnayder and blue.
• 59:42
  And that's how you know Logan if you haven't listened to it and
• 59:44
  if you're listening right now and you haven't listened to its
• 59:46
  it is there's a reason why it's our most popular episode.
• 59:48
  I will highly encourage you to go listen to it.
• 59:52
  If you've listened to Listen to it again.
• 59:54
  And what we had a really Frank discussion about the coat, the
• 59:59
  profession of coaching, get away from what's on your chest, and
• 1:00:03
  knowledge of x's and o's your, your you are perfect.
• 1:00:07
  You are making money for yourself, your family, your
• 1:00:09
  passions, your Charity's etcetera.
• 1:00:10
  Just like someone who works for IBM Gil, Wendy's whatever,
• 1:00:14
  right? You money is important, right?
• 1:00:17
  I will never not say that. and what he talked about was, you
• 1:00:25
  know, you've got to do better for yourself when you have the
• 1:00:27
  opportunity, especially as a younger coach for your to
• 1:00:30
  retire, one day and things like that.
• 1:00:32
  So if you're moved to a I see where I know you said it was
• 1:00:36
  less money in that sense, but it was better for you.
• 1:00:39
  It sounded like it was better for you for mental health, for
• 1:00:41
  you what you thought professionally for yourself.
• 1:00:42
  At that point it cetera. When I valued in, what I want to
• 1:00:45
  coach stuff. Yeah.
• 1:00:47
  So instead of the tribalism of like oh they went to another
• 1:00:51
  school in the conference or I can't believe they did.
• 1:00:54
  Not throwing coach wrong under the bus here, either.
• 1:00:57
  This is again, this is very, very common, especially in
• 1:01:01
  track, and specially in sports instead of being like, Oh, I'm
• 1:01:04
  so happy for you. Are you happy?
• 1:01:06
  Logan? Great.
• 1:01:06
  Then I'm happy for you. The tribalism?
• 1:01:08
  Like all he went to, you know, like the audacity of the, you
• 1:01:12
  went inside conference. Think it's the same with
• 1:01:14
  Athletics by the way, with athletes.
• 1:01:16
  Like I'm a I don't like the you know you can transfer any.
• 1:01:19
  You want anywhere you want? Except for in our conference I
• 1:01:21
  think like that but that's make much of the GMAC now.
• 1:01:24
  Yeah, it's like it makes no sense to me.
• 1:01:26
  Like what do you mean it's if I want to go from LSU to Florida.
• 1:01:29
  God bless you, great. Okay.
• 1:01:30
  If it's in the same conference, I don't care if I'm going to see
• 1:01:33
  you twice a year minimally at the conference meet, who it's
• 1:01:38
  your education, it's your life knock yourself out here.
• 1:01:41
  I mean, what are we talking about here?
• 1:01:43
  So it's just interesting as you're as you're describing that
• 1:01:47
  sorry. This is you're describing that
• 1:01:48
  it's just like, why it's this tribalism.
• 1:01:51
  I think the difference is because it's Sports because when
• 1:01:54
  it's The other examples I gave IBM Facebook, Etc, while we do
• 1:01:59
  have pride of having Facebook, you know, as our employer, it
• 1:02:02
  ain't like heaven Ashland over there or Florida State, you
• 1:02:06
  know? It's like, oh, there's people
• 1:02:08
  that support me because I'm a Seminole, and only because of
• 1:02:12
  that, you know, there's that tribalism with it.
• 1:02:15
  So, it's just interesting, the dynamic and Sport as a
• 1:02:18
  profession coaching here and how that, you know, that relates to
• 1:02:23
  being happy for some Owen or I can't believe they didn't talk
• 1:02:26
  to me and it's like, I don't know.
• 1:02:29
  It's just odd to me. And it's easier for it to be odd
• 1:02:32
  to me because I'm outside the circle.
• 1:02:33
  And I coach for 10 years. Went to five different
• 1:02:35
  institutions. So, trust me, I'm the guy who
• 1:02:37
  hopped around to with different places.
• 1:02:39
  I never went. Yeah, I never went inside
• 1:02:41
  conference though, but I don't know that it would have been
• 1:02:43
  weird to me. I don't know that.
• 1:02:44
  I can't think back. I was a long time ago, now,
• 1:02:47
  where I was where I was, I don't think there was ever a situation
• 1:02:49
  was like, ooh, I can't even like consider that job because it's
• 1:02:53
  inside the conference. We got, this is, is that we now,
• 1:02:56
  okay, so you go to a, I see. Now this is where you actually
• 1:02:59
  reached out. To me is when you're at a I see.
• 1:03:01
  Tell us about this. I don't know much about a, I see
• 1:03:03
  either tell us about the school and maybe some cultural
• 1:03:07
  difference in. How did it go switching to that
• 1:03:09
  school? For you professionally say it's
• 1:03:11
  it's a small school primarily athletes.
• 1:03:16
  I think while we were talking there's only like 700 800 people
• 1:03:20
  on campus. Wow.
• 1:03:21
  Yeah. It's a tiny school.
• 1:03:23
  Majority of them. Like I said, our ass Athletes.
• 1:03:26
  And when I got there it wasn't a well-known that track and field
• 1:03:30
  was one of the newer sports but also one of the powerhouses
• 1:03:33
  sports in the school. So it was kind of the one.
• 1:03:36
  Where is it located Springfield, Massachusetts?
• 1:03:39
  Oh, are you in Springfield? I've been there once.
• 1:03:41
  Yeah, okay, so I like the Basketball Hall of fame's,
• 1:03:44
  bottom of the hill, the casino now, and then go up to the top
• 1:03:47
  of the hill and there's a school, right?
• 1:03:49
  So the city I've got to admit, the reason I was in Springfield
• 1:03:52
  because I was at that casino. And I was right by campus.
• 1:03:56
  Okay. All right, you're probably about
• 1:03:58
  three minute drive thing, it's shoot, okay.
• 1:04:01
  All right, but it was one of those things where the biggest
• 1:04:04
  dry that I had there was to go. There was one, I don't have to
• 1:04:08
  be a head coach. Hmm.
• 1:04:09
  At the time was like what I can just sit and coach and my basis
• 1:04:14
  I want to learn at the time. I didn't want to have to focus
• 1:04:17
  all my time and energy into doing the budgeting and gravel
• 1:04:21
  and like more so hey, head coach.
• 1:04:24
  Says this one, he done this week or this one he done today is
• 1:04:27
  when he done within the next five minutes, all right.
• 1:04:29
  I'm free to do it. Let's do it.
• 1:04:31
  But it was more so I could spend time researching training
• 1:04:34
  researching different techniques, looking at different
• 1:04:38
  drills and she spent time learning how to be a better
• 1:04:42
  Coach overall for the athletes and the scientific side again.
• 1:04:46
  And that also got me into more of, hey, like, hey, I she's
• 1:04:50
  like, let's let me get help you go to the conventions, let me
• 1:04:54
  Give you some higher ed with doing some of the professional
• 1:04:58
  development stuff. So I had fun usatf, once we're
• 1:05:02
  done with a, I see. So there's one less thing to
• 1:05:05
  read. It was a little learn more.
• 1:05:07
  And then my whole biggest part was, I was now able to say, I
• 1:05:12
  didn't just have to recruit in u.s.
• 1:05:14
  Hmm. We were, hey, let's bring in two
• 1:05:17
  or three international kids each year that way, this is seems
• 1:05:21
  always be funded coach Mayo loves Crush.
• 1:05:24
  Country love is in doing outdoor track.
• 1:05:26
  He knew to have a good team, all three seasons.
• 1:05:29
  He had to have his distance Runners, so he would make sure
• 1:05:32
  he had at least seven to nine. Nine athletes.
• 1:05:36
  That weren't paying a dime for school that were funded through
• 1:05:39
  athletic Aid. FAFSA 8, if they were domestic
• 1:05:42
  and then their academic Aid and he did a heck of a job with it
• 1:05:46
  was cross country team, he found International kids in Canada.
• 1:05:49
  France, England, and I'm sitting back my first year like
• 1:05:53
  Washington do. I mean A.
• 1:05:55
  So I know you've had some Jamaican sprinter as you've had
• 1:05:57
  some Jamaican hurdlers. You had some people from Haiti,
• 1:06:00
  it was like one can I get? Mine is like, when can we start
• 1:06:04
  recruiting for? The sprinters is like we don't
• 1:06:05
  have right now and the biggest drive that Administration told
• 1:06:09
  me, like, hey, we need you to help build the women's team like
• 1:06:12
  funny. Your, you hire a guy that it was
• 1:06:14
  just that men's Head code right coach a woman's to basically,
• 1:06:18
  build a women's program and so Leo.
• 1:06:20
  And I sat down to have the conversations with
• 1:06:21
  Administration like wired, why are the men doing so?
• 1:06:24
  Well, but the women are. And he's his the big thing came
• 1:06:27
  down to he was trying to recruit a bunch of distance women and
• 1:06:30
  that just wasn't panning out. And so they're like why don't
• 1:06:32
  you put recruiting women Logan I was like okay I'm like no big
• 1:06:37
  deal and find one or two internationalism will find a
• 1:06:40
  bunch of people in the area and so I were quickly going on to
• 1:06:44
  look at who are the top female sprinters in the area and down
• 1:06:47
  in New Haven. Connecticut.
• 1:06:49
  There's fun recruiting out of there because my oh, that's
• 1:06:51
  Southern Connecticut's. Backyard, that's New Haven's
• 1:06:53
  backyard like this is fun. Pull kids out of there appeared
• 1:06:56
  kids, right in Springfield Mass, local homegrown people and then
• 1:07:01
  up in Lowell. And I was like it's weird how he
• 1:07:03
  found those three areas because there's more of the less.
• 1:07:07
  I mean, they're very developed areas, but less funded areas of
• 1:07:11
  the states and so I'm like I'm looking at the nation like okay.
• 1:07:16
  So they they get better fast with packages and now I'm
• 1:07:20
  finding people that have 30's and higher out of these groups.
• 1:07:23
  But a I see Wanting people to come to school.
• 1:07:26
  We're willing to take people at to Oaks.
• 1:07:28
  So, now, Senators influx of II. Can I can recruit quite a bit of
• 1:07:31
  people, so our women's team within the year to we built it
• 1:07:34
  up and unfortunately, a couple of and bad attitudes and didn't
• 1:07:40
  want that to go with the way, the future of the program, where
• 1:07:42
  the way we wanted the program to go.
• 1:07:43
  So we we had said our good-byes, a couple of girls as they came
• 1:07:48
  in and had left and went on to do other things or they just
• 1:07:50
  stay within the school. They had coached, Runnings not
• 1:07:52
  for me anymore. After they got to college.
• 1:07:54
  But you'll die like this and we're going to build a dominant
• 1:07:58
  women's team and he's like, I'm gonna let you do it with your
• 1:08:00
  with the budget. He's like, you need some
• 1:08:01
  sprinters, go ahead, get him. He's like if we can get a couple
• 1:08:04
  distance Runners that get such great will make sure we have a
• 1:08:06
  cross country team at first, but we need something but build it
• 1:08:11
  with the Sprint's injunction so. Okay, so that my first years all
• 1:08:15
  of a sudden we get to met and were like hey we saw us and I'm
• 1:08:17
  quite a bit of money because we weren't hadn't gone in a
• 1:08:20
  nationally at for the women. I was like, all right, let's
• 1:08:23
  doing fine next, you know. I think I was at home word in up
• 1:08:26
  in New York or someplace and he goes, he was hey, check out the
• 1:08:29
  name, Roxanne Foster So I type a name and I was like, doesn't
• 1:08:33
  come up anywhere he goes. No, I wa f it, so I put it on.
• 1:08:38
  I wif all of a sudden her time, she come up and she's like a
• 1:08:40
  14-1 hurdler and I was like, I was like, yeah, like let's get
• 1:08:45
  her. And he's like, he said, oh, what
• 1:08:47
  makes you think we can get her? I'm like, he's from Jamaica was,
• 1:08:50
  like, do you have a connection at like, why'd you come up with
• 1:08:52
  her? He's like, yep.
• 1:08:53
  He's like, he's like one of my coaching friends has connection
• 1:08:56
  to her coach, and she's looking for a school night.
• 1:08:59
  All right, look, let's get her. So I work with We having
• 1:09:01
  conversation with sure enough. She sign And she came in and
• 1:09:06
  rocks and I had quite the history of three years ago.
• 1:09:09
  We went through covid together found out a lot about people
• 1:09:12
  with during covid of how I summer either going to train or
• 1:09:15
  some are going to take time off and come up with excuses.
• 1:09:17
  She I think with more of the latter route, unfortunately, but
• 1:09:21
  it was always one of those things where she was competitor
• 1:09:23
  and she knew I loved to win and she loved to win.
• 1:09:26
  So is it was always one to when were away from each other.
• 1:09:30
  She's not going to train as hard when we're back.
• 1:09:32
  Together is Ok, Rock. Rocks.
• 1:09:33
  Let's get ready. Championships are coming
• 1:09:35
  conferences. Coming now Nationals coming,
• 1:09:37
  like, what are we going to do to get there?
• 1:09:39
  And she always found a way to get there.
• 1:09:40
  She was on her way to PR the end of the season.
• 1:09:41
  So it was fun to work with. And she's now I'm in a sort of
• 1:09:44
  state with crisp are no. So, oh yeah, that's final for
• 1:09:47
  having her. Hopefully, she ends up this
• 1:09:51
  year. I think this year next year
• 1:09:53
  might be her last year eligibility.
• 1:09:54
  So I think next year is so hopefully she can turn their
• 1:09:57
  season around a little bit, you know, Logan.
• 1:09:59
  Somebody said I got to check myself for the way I responded.
• 1:10:02
  You a Little bit ago, you said, you know they said, hey we're
• 1:10:06
  going to, you know, we haven't been doing great on the women's
• 1:10:08
  side. So why don't we put Logan's
• 1:10:10
  Focus over there? Yes, and you said, you know,
• 1:10:13
  kind of funny they hired, you know, they told us to a guy who
• 1:10:16
  was the head men's coach to do that and I kind of like uh yeah
• 1:10:20
  I have to check myself because if there were reverse was true,
• 1:10:22
  I would not have blinked an eye. I think if someone like Gil
• 1:10:26
  podcast the lung best Alfred Sullivan, you know, she gets the
• 1:10:29
  job of a men's program. I don't go home, kind of funny.
• 1:10:32
  They hired a woman. And who was the woman's head
• 1:10:34
  coach, you know, I'm like, oh, of course, it's great coach.
• 1:10:36
  So, I just had to check myself. They're like, oh yeah, that's
• 1:10:38
  not. I mean, you coach and Coach, do
• 1:10:40
  you know, on the track and field side at the very least, I'd
• 1:10:43
  already? I don't pretend to know anything
• 1:10:44
  about basketball and baseball, softball, Etc.
• 1:10:47
  But I do believe in the power of track coaches, like the
• 1:10:50
  leadership and knowledge and experience that they have, that
• 1:10:53
  they can coach any sport to be real Frank with you.
• 1:10:56
  So just had to check myself as like, well why did I have that
• 1:10:58
  reaction? That's not true at all for this
• 1:11:01
  example or the reverse. So how Did it go, you talked
• 1:11:05
  about International recruiting, you know, recruiting is its own
• 1:11:09
  skill set, right? International career which I did
• 1:11:11
  not do very much at all as a college coach.
• 1:11:15
  I don't have much experience there.
• 1:11:17
  Is it different? You know, it's kind of funny.
• 1:11:19
  I think about when we have women coaches on the podcast, I work
• 1:11:22
  really hard at not asking a stereotypic question of like,
• 1:11:25
  well, what's it like coaching men?
• 1:11:26
  What was your experience, you know, because it's again, a
• 1:11:27
  hundred meters, 100 m in certainly there are some
• 1:11:30
  differences in how you coach a male versus female even in the
• 1:11:32
  same event, but you Was a woman, doesn't necessarily change how
• 1:11:35
  you might coach versus a man might coach.
• 1:11:37
  It, is it an unfair question again?
• 1:11:39
  I don't have experience with International recruiting.
• 1:11:42
  Is it an unfair question to say? Well how was it coaching or
• 1:11:45
  national or I'm sorry recruiting International because that is it
• 1:11:49
  the same? It's just different tackling and
• 1:11:52
  because it's a, you know, there's visas and things like
• 1:11:54
  that, I don't know. I think there's more workload
• 1:11:58
  with it, there's more workload but I personally as long as you
• 1:12:01
  have the connections, To the coaches or clubs overseas.
• 1:12:07
  I think it's it might be easier. His those coaches are saying,
• 1:12:10
  hey, this person, they already know what budgets are they like,
• 1:12:14
  depending on what country looking at were either.
• 1:12:16
  No. Okay.
• 1:12:17
  They don't have a budget. You're going to have to figure
• 1:12:19
  out a way to completely fund this student athlete.
• 1:12:21
  So if you're going to get more from there, they better be good.
• 1:12:24
  You're not going to want to put all the all the athletic a doll,
• 1:12:29
  the academic eating one person, that doesn't pan out to be able
• 1:12:32
  to do Either multiple events or get to the highest level.
• 1:12:36
  So that's the cool part I think with International recruiting is
• 1:12:40
  most majority of the time. The kosher saying, hey, these
• 1:12:43
  are who we have is what their budgets are and you can either
• 1:12:45
  say yes or no right versus with on the domestic side.
• 1:12:49
  It's more. So there's other avenues to get
• 1:12:53
  the money so it's okay. They might not have the complete
• 1:12:56
  budget but can we put this scholarship on?
• 1:12:58
  Or can we get this diversity? Grant honored house there fast
• 1:13:02
  for a book? Look, and it creates a little
• 1:13:05
  more of a little more of a web, I guess of where everything come
• 1:13:10
  from. But there's more schools now
• 1:13:14
  that can recruit domestically than they can recruit
• 1:13:16
  internationally. So now you're fighting with
• 1:13:18
  other schools. Now you have to turn in and say,
• 1:13:20
  okay, what's our facilities like compared to theirs.
• 1:13:22
  What's our academic programs compared to theirs?
• 1:13:24
  Where are we located? And so at a, I see, we are
• 1:13:27
  pretty unique with the international kids.
• 1:13:29
  Everybody knows a Boston, everybody knows about New York
• 1:13:31
  City. So you tell them how close you
• 1:13:34
  are to both of those and it's funny, we had a place called
• 1:13:37
  Forest Park near near a I see and a lot of kids thought when
• 1:13:42
  you, when we were mentioned oh yeah, Hardison trying to go at
• 1:13:44
  Forest Park to train. They thought we had a number of
• 1:13:48
  recent recruiter, we are solving with couple years ago.
• 1:13:51
  Yeah, coach every time you Forest Park was mentioned, we
• 1:13:54
  thought we were talking about Central Park that they wanted to
• 1:13:57
  go run in Central Park because it's known overseas.
• 1:14:00
  Oh, it's all right. It's a beautiful place to run.
• 1:14:03
  Yeah we want to go run Central Park.
• 1:14:04
  They never got to run central part of me can see but they
• 1:14:07
  never ask that question. We can use one part know, they
• 1:14:09
  just report Park, but ya know beans out random parks and you
• 1:14:13
  weren't inferring Central Park. So, yeah.
• 1:14:15
  We're we're just talkin about Porsha Hannah.
• 1:14:18
  Now, it's interesting. I heard you say, two different
• 1:14:20
  things that feel on opposite ends of the spectrum, but maybe
• 1:14:25
  you can help me tie together. You started off and I hear this
• 1:14:28
  a lot with International recruiting you talked about the
• 1:14:31
  relationships. If you have a relationship with
• 1:14:32
  a A club or coach. And what's interesting is, I
• 1:14:35
  hear that a lot and I'm like, especially like, could be used
• 1:14:37
  like a country, like Jamaica as an example.
• 1:14:39
  You know, it's a very small populated country compared to,
• 1:14:42
  you know, the whole of us. And I swear every coach, I
• 1:14:45
  talked to that, when we talk about International recruiting
• 1:14:48
  will say, oh yeah, well I've got a relationship Jamaican like
• 1:14:49
  well, how many relationships? You know, like all got my guy in
• 1:14:52
  like well, how many? There's always somebody, guys.
• 1:14:55
  There's mostly guys down there. Look at everybody's got a god,
• 1:14:57
  there's only so many coaches down there.
• 1:15:00
  So, for when you talk about relationship, which I think
• 1:15:01
  that's important because you gotta have Trust and who you
• 1:15:04
  know that club her High School coach in Jamaica is going to
• 1:15:06
  send their kids to, you know, to it's a big trip to go
• 1:15:11
  internationally for school. So I get that.
• 1:15:14
  Then you also said, what I think is on the other side Spectrum.
• 1:15:16
  You talked about the the aid package.
• 1:15:19
  So the word screen full ride because I need that and things
• 1:15:22
  like that and and I've heard of the examples of where someone's
• 1:15:26
  like, hey I'm I'd love to go to your school but I can't cuz I
• 1:15:29
  need a full ride. So I'm gonna go to whatever's
• 1:15:30
  team. Does this lesser or school,
• 1:15:32
  right? Right.
• 1:15:33
  That that seems to different things.
• 1:15:35
  Relationships versus just straight-up financial situation.
• 1:15:38
  How are those two married together in your experience?
• 1:15:42
  On the international side? Yeah, it's like I said, it's
• 1:15:45
  kind of like, a yes-or-no thing like, hey, like do we have money
• 1:15:49
  for that person? And the like there is one coach
• 1:15:53
  during covid. I was talking with and he had
• 1:15:56
  to, for me to hurt others men. That I was recruiting and it was
• 1:16:01
  one was a 54. Second guy and 1252 second guy,
• 1:16:05
  out of high school. And I'm talking to Leo, like,
• 1:16:09
  hey I got the opportunity to get two different, guys.
• 1:16:11
  What money do we have just shoot for and hurdle Guy.
• 1:16:15
  Come on. Both you know, let's let's
• 1:16:17
  Fairway. Training together.
• 1:16:18
  They're from the same High School in Jamaica.
• 1:16:21
  The like, let's keep them together and he's like,
• 1:16:23
  unfortunately, only get one. So not not being able to see
• 1:16:26
  really see the kid, not watch them train understanding, both
• 1:16:30
  of them, want to come. Now you gotta make a decision
• 1:16:33
  and yes the coach. Hey, which one are you taking
• 1:16:36
  the The coach like, well, once two seconds faster, that's a
• 1:16:40
  no-brainer, right? So we went with the one that was
• 1:16:42
  2, seconds faster, and are. Now I look back at it and the
• 1:16:46
  other one and of going to Lincoln University of Missouri
• 1:16:51
  and he's an All-American, the other one is living in New York.
• 1:16:54
  Some, we're not doing track and he came in and he had
• 1:17:00
  transferred out after us for a year.
• 1:17:01
  And we're like, listen, this isn't going to work out, you're
• 1:17:04
  not running. Whoa, what you You could run,
• 1:17:07
  I'm not and I maybe it was Kobe. That God.
• 1:17:10
  We all joke about covid. Got it, got an athlete that he
• 1:17:13
  didn't train through it. How about a bunch of weight.
• 1:17:16
  I saw the signs. He had legitimately ran 52
• 1:17:19
  seconds. And with us first year, working
• 1:17:23
  really hard with him. I'm like I can barely get you to
• 1:17:25
  58, you just wasn't fit costly an injured costly going through
• 1:17:29
  things that 19 20 year-old kids are going to go through and run
• 1:17:33
  Havoc as excuses, you know. So I was like, Daniel's like
• 1:17:37
  could have went with 54 guy, your friend right now.
• 1:17:40
  Yeah. See, that's why you just that's
• 1:17:41
  why you just go get all of them. All right.
• 1:17:42
  That's really never turn. Never turn a kid down.
• 1:17:46
  Can we have one less distance Runners?
• 1:17:48
  You don't have nine guys, farted.
• 1:17:50
  You only need seven for cross-country.
• 1:17:51
  Can you give me one of those guys?
• 1:17:55
  Now, we can have to hurdlers. What is your experience?
• 1:17:58
  What can you help us? Understand what international
• 1:18:01
  with coaching International kids?
• 1:18:03
  And what I mean by that is a little bit to what we alluded to
• 1:18:05
  earlier about What we just look at domestically when a kid comes
• 1:18:08
  from high school to college, even if it's like the most
• 1:18:13
  smallest travel. So let's say there's a kid that
• 1:18:15
  went to Springfield High School and then goes to a, I see same
• 1:18:18
  town, so there's no travel concerns.
• 1:18:22
  They know the whether their friends are still there.
• 1:18:26
  So I'd be a very easy transition all the way to, you know, a kid
• 1:18:30
  is coming to a I see when you were there from California.
• 1:18:33
  It's like, oh man, maybe the weather is extremely different.
• 1:18:35
  The cultures different, the accents are different.
• 1:18:38
  You know, away from Mom and Dad time zones are different, that
• 1:18:41
  they'll be a little harder transition and even harder
• 1:18:44
  transition, in my mind would be someone coming from an
• 1:18:47
  international country. You know, I've traveled slightly
• 1:18:49
  internationally and I know there are times where it's like, oh
• 1:18:51
  man, I don't speak the language natively, I can't read a street
• 1:18:57
  sign. I can't even call back home
• 1:19:00
  because of the international calling rates, or whatever
• 1:19:02
  things like that, SIM cards and all that kind of stuff.
• 1:19:06
  What do you have to be most cognizant about about your
• 1:19:10
  International athletes, as they come to you to help them
• 1:19:14
  acclimate? Be satisfied and happy with
• 1:19:17
  their lives, athletically academically.
• 1:19:18
  And socially, honestly, I think he's being there for them
• 1:19:22
  because the biggest thing that are the one memory I have of
• 1:19:26
  when our first group Internationals, I was there for
• 1:19:29
  was, brought in brought in has removed.
• 1:19:31
  I went up went into national titles for us and we brought it
• 1:19:34
  in Titus skip to Azure one. 10K outdoors and 10K cross-country
• 1:19:38
  race, and they had came the night before.
• 1:19:43
  And the next morning I think it was like a Saturday morning.
• 1:19:45
  I'm just driving around campus. Not not paying any attention.
• 1:19:48
  All of a sudden. He's you two guys.
• 1:19:50
  Just standing in the middle of State Street, stay true to the
• 1:19:53
  biggest road going through the Springfield and they're standing
• 1:19:57
  in the middle of it. Just looking back and forth and
• 1:20:01
  it divides State Street divides where our athletic facilities
• 1:20:05
  are and our academic buildings are and kids.
• 1:20:08
  Either usually take a shuttle across there, they drive across
• 1:20:10
  themselves or they'll use a crosswalk.
• 1:20:12
  They're not. So these two kids are not seeing
• 1:20:13
  across with mind you. This is, this is beginning of
• 1:20:15
  August. This isn't middle of school
• 1:20:17
  year, you know, where you can see other people moving around.
• 1:20:20
  There's no weapons on campus other than a couple of the teams
• 1:20:22
  moving in that, don't know these two, you know.
• 1:20:26
  Here, these two guys are still in the middle and I pulled my
• 1:20:27
  Jeep. And I'm looking at them like
• 1:20:30
  they don't look like they know what they're doing.
• 1:20:33
  They're just lost and to pull out my guys and they both look
• 1:20:37
  that yes sir I was like you guys need help and like yes and
• 1:20:42
  nobody where you headed there. Like you don't know you know
• 1:20:45
  because they had moved into the dorm late at night they don't
• 1:20:49
  have any bedding and we we had our grad assistant at the time.
• 1:20:53
  Go pick them up from the airport and bring them back with the
• 1:20:58
  whole transportation. Tatian stuff that we had to go
• 1:21:00
  through the school. And so they know where they're
• 1:21:03
  going. They know where to find anything
• 1:21:07
  and they were if came to find out, they had found food.
• 1:21:10
  They went to the some some grocery store that we had with
• 1:21:13
  the label data that they had walked in and just ask for food,
• 1:21:16
  even though you just get free food this when I've been, hey,
• 1:21:19
  we're hungry. And luckily, the people are kind
• 1:21:21
  enough to give them food. They knew that they had to be
• 1:21:23
  athletes and walking around. So yeah, they needed something
• 1:21:25
  so they were fed there but they know what else to do.
• 1:21:28
  They know. Do it today.
• 1:21:29
  Their phones had been switched over yet to be able to work.
• 1:21:32
  They know how to hook up to the Wi-Fi.
• 1:21:33
  Nothing. Yeah.
• 1:21:35
  So they're lost and to me, not knowing exactly who they were
• 1:21:40
  yet, not recognize all these are Kenyans that we picked up, you
• 1:21:44
  know. And I we were, we're going to be
• 1:21:46
  coaching and I'm like, what's your guys names?
• 1:21:50
  And as yours, like I'm as rat and I was and usually Titus and
• 1:21:55
  like, oh like you're are to recruit nice to meet you, I'm
• 1:21:57
  coach Drivin. They even know who I was because
• 1:22:00
  I wasn't on any of the right then it was all lie up and it
• 1:22:04
  solves that I coach Sprints and hurdles.
• 1:22:05
  I was like, I'll be around all the time for cross-country.
• 1:22:08
  Like you guys ever need anything.
• 1:22:09
  Here's my number two, like how does that work?
• 1:22:12
  I was like, what do you mean? Has it worked like our phones
• 1:22:13
  don't work normally and that's why it dawned on me.
• 1:22:16
  They were completely lost. I was like, all right, I was
• 1:22:18
  like, I'll get your phones work on Wi-Fi of that.
• 1:22:20
  I don't know how to connect right now to get your American
• 1:22:23
  numbers, working her for him to do that.
• 1:22:26
  Like that's all I'm coach Mayo, like, I'll get it.
• 1:22:28
  And we'll start figuring stuff out.
• 1:22:30
  So then in turn into, hey, they need bedding.
• 1:22:33
  They neither, they neither IDs for the school.
• 1:22:35
  They had nothing. They looked like, two people
• 1:22:38
  just not allowed to be around, you know?
• 1:22:42
  And but it was a whole first week of every day.
• 1:22:44
  All they knew is come to the office.
• 1:22:46
  Come to the office at 8:00 a.m. one of us was going to be there
• 1:22:48
  and they would come in. Okay, what's the next thing we
• 1:22:50
  can work on? And that's I think the biggest
• 1:22:53
  thing I learned about the international kids, once they
• 1:22:54
  get to campus, it's you have to guide them through each and
• 1:22:58
  every step. Up until they stop coming by to
• 1:23:01
  ask you for that, but you have to tell them, hey, you have to
• 1:23:03
  come to me every day. Hmm, but otherwise they're just,
• 1:23:07
  it's just be like you being dropped off in some random
• 1:23:09
  country. Oh, 100%.
• 1:23:11
  That's what I tell you. You know, I said, you know, I
• 1:23:14
  went to Springfield was, I went to the MGM.
• 1:23:16
  They re I'm, I'm a like to play poker a lot, and I was down in
• 1:23:22
  Costa Rica. And I went to a poker room
• 1:23:25
  there. And it was one of the more
• 1:23:28
  humbling learning experiences I've ever had, you know, sitting
• 1:23:31
  at a table with eight other people and they're speaking
• 1:23:35
  Spanish because that's the native language down there.
• 1:23:37
  You know there's a TV on sodding.
• 1:23:39
  Soccer was on, of course that stereotypical but it soccer was
• 1:23:42
  on and it's in Spanish. And I remember I know nothing in
• 1:23:47
  Spanish and I just, you know, see that's all I know.
• 1:23:49
  I'm sorry. And so I remember like, every
• 1:23:52
  time I go to bed, I look at the dealer, I'm like 25.
• 1:23:54
  Like I want to make sure I wouldn't bet in the wrong
• 1:23:56
  amounts and You know, in it's a poker game.
• 1:23:58
  So these guys are all chatting and laughing and and I'm just
• 1:24:01
  like I know nothing like it made me realize that I might even
• 1:24:05
  take advantage of right now. Well, I didn't want to, I didn't
• 1:24:08
  think that necessarily. Yeah, because it was a legit
• 1:24:11
  Casino, you know, something like that was.
• 1:24:12
  Okay. But it was just like, you're
• 1:24:14
  isolated. I can't contribute to that
• 1:24:17
  story. I can't understand, right?
• 1:24:20
  That's, you know, when you think about, like, when I think about
• 1:24:21
  my other times, when I'm at poker, to, when you think about
• 1:24:23
  your times around your buddies and stuff and their side
• 1:24:25
  conversations going on, you know, Overhear the conversation
• 1:24:27
  like oh they're talking about that game.
• 1:24:29
  Two years ago. Our oh, they're talking about
• 1:24:31
  their old girlfriend. I remember Lisa, whatever blah
• 1:24:33
  blah. Nothing.
• 1:24:35
  I could do no, I can understand tones.
• 1:24:38
  But when they still, when the punch line was given, they
• 1:24:41
  started laughing. I didn't understand the
• 1:24:42
  punchline. And I started thinking about
• 1:24:45
  when, you know, when I lived in Vegas and was playing poker
• 1:24:47
  professionally and we'd have, you know, eight English-speaking
• 1:24:50
  people there in one person from Asia or from Mexico or wherever,
• 1:24:54
  that was not a native speaker and they're always quite Ed's
• 1:24:57
  and it's like, oh, now I get it. The rest of us were speaking in
• 1:25:01
  English, talking about, whatever the game relationships travels,
• 1:25:05
  ha, ha jokes. And they were like, I don't
• 1:25:08
  understand a word. And it mean, am I do anything
• 1:25:11
  wrong? My betting wrong?
• 1:25:12
  I'm trying to get this back. It was really like, it really
• 1:25:14
  taught me a lot. It was the most impactful and I
• 1:25:18
  played it for. I've played it, almost 400
• 1:25:20
  different places around the country and now Costa Rica.
• 1:25:24
  It was the one that it was the most impactful poker game I've
• 1:25:26
  ever played. Cuz it's times like oh this is
• 1:25:28
  what other people are going through.
• 1:25:30
  This is what Titus and Ezra were going through.
• 1:25:32
  They were in the middle of the street.
• 1:25:35
  I can't call Coach, I don't even, I don't know where to go.
• 1:25:40
  I don't even have bedding. I don't have money for food.
• 1:25:45
  They have literally none of the basics, right?
• 1:25:47
  Food, safety shelter. They don't have any of that.
• 1:25:51
  Yep. All they have is each other.
• 1:25:53
  Thank goodness, I can only imagine I can't imagine how
• 1:25:55
  scary had to be free. And so that's where I learned.
• 1:25:59
  Like, when we're International recruiting I have noticed, we
• 1:26:02
  always got two or more people from One region, one country.
• 1:26:06
  Hmm. And they may not know each other
• 1:26:09
  but we would try to plan it so they arrived at the same time.
• 1:26:13
  So it became okay. This is going to be your friend.
• 1:26:15
  It was your first friend here but can you imagine?
• 1:26:17
  And I think that's important, probably helped for sure.
• 1:26:19
  I could feel I feel like that would help but can you imagine
• 1:26:22
  the same and reverse? So let's use Costa Rica Logan,
• 1:26:26
  we're shipping you. Down to Costa Rica and you know,
• 1:26:29
  we know you don't know, Spanish and read the street signs.
• 1:26:32
  So we're going to send someone from Montana to also go down
• 1:26:36
  there because they're American and you to meet up in your like,
• 1:26:39
  Hey, Joe. Hi Logan.
• 1:26:41
  Did your phone work now? Mine either.
• 1:26:43
  Do you have any money? No, I don't either.
• 1:26:44
  What are we gonna do? I don't know.
• 1:26:45
  But we can least amazed a need. I guess we can understand each
• 1:26:47
  other. So that's cool but but also
• 1:26:51
  don't know who you are, Joe. Like, I mean, I'm supposed to
• 1:26:53
  automatically trust you just because you're also an American
• 1:26:56
  like I could see where could help his least you have a
• 1:26:58
  communication there still like? I don't know who the heck you
• 1:27:00
  are. You know, Titus in Hazzard.
• 1:27:02
  Not knowing if they were from the same way, there's the same
• 1:27:04
  training. Yeah, but think about the same
• 1:27:06
  like yeah, okay, you're also from Kenya but whatever your
• 1:27:08
  from 100 Mike and he's a big country, you're from 100 miles
• 1:27:12
  of that. I don't know who you are.
• 1:27:13
  We speak the same country but we have different accents and
• 1:27:15
  dilate you know, it helps but it still it's ruff ruff like I have
• 1:27:21
  a lot. I'm literally kind of you
• 1:27:23
  painted a great picture because I'm literally in my head.
• 1:27:24
  See in this picture of these two guys standing They're like.
• 1:27:28
  What if we're going by those into?
• 1:27:30
  You're just standing there. Yeah.
• 1:27:32
  And then the stranger pulls up in a Jeep and it's you know,
• 1:27:34
  there's a little bit like okay someone's going to help but
• 1:27:36
  there's also a little bit of like are they coming to help
• 1:27:39
  right? You know and then I can't
• 1:27:42
  imagine the relief when you said oh hey I'm also a track coach.
• 1:27:45
  Oh oh oh okay little bit more trust now he's one of us, he's
• 1:27:49
  track so okay, that's good, he's a coach.
• 1:27:52
  Okay, you know, that's amazing. That's amazing.
• 1:27:55
  Wow then they contrary to we When I re brought into Jamaicans
• 1:28:00
  in mid-January. Oh yeah.
• 1:28:03
  See, they're going to Greece. Yeah, I can week, there was a
• 1:28:08
  negative 5 and they are, is the funniest thing.
• 1:28:11
  Watch them walk in and like I felt so bad when walks in, with
• 1:28:13
  shorts into the airport. Like my you up hands?
• 1:28:17
  Like no. He's like white pants were like,
• 1:28:21
  you. Sure.
• 1:28:21
  And I was like, okay, we gotta, I'm gonna have to get you to the
• 1:28:24
  story really quickly. Yeah, yeah.
• 1:28:26
  I was like, you do any currency exchange?
• 1:28:28
  Like are you ready? And he's like, oh, I got money,
• 1:28:30
  but with the money still, not the American money, so you're
• 1:28:33
  trying to change over currencies on you.
• 1:28:36
  Oh, this is rough. The first I swear the first
• 1:28:39
  couple weeks for them once they get through that it's like he's
• 1:28:42
  now you're looking at shots they have to get to be.
• 1:28:45
  Yeah all the organizations and they why am I getting this time?
• 1:28:48
  Like you guys, I don't know. And table a requires.
• 1:28:51
  It got to do it. I am very anti - recruiting but
• 1:28:59
  this seems like one word be fair if they were trying to choose
• 1:29:02
  between Springfield Massachusetts and I'll say, Troy
• 1:29:06
  Alabama that's where I'm from. And they're like, yeah, mister
• 1:29:10
  Jamaican athlete. You know, it's going to be
• 1:29:12
  negative 5. When you go up there, right?
• 1:29:14
  And like, it'll be 80 down. Like that feels like a fair
• 1:29:16
  that's not - Rudy. That's just laying out the facts
• 1:29:19
  and you may be able to maybe you want to go experience.
• 1:29:21
  No. Because you lived in Jamaica
• 1:29:23
  whole life, but you just need to know man.
• 1:29:25
  His yeah, cold is cool. Some things aren't always
• 1:29:30
  mentioned, Henry food. Okay, I was about to say some
• 1:29:50
  things aren't sitting in recruiting I get that it's one
• 1:29:52
  of those I think it's one of those little dirty little
• 1:29:55
  secrets of coaching and we're going to talk specifically about
• 1:29:57
  track but I'm not sure that it's not for All Sports as well, but
• 1:30:02
  when they don't mention something, it's like, wow I'm
• 1:30:04
  not lying because I didn't say the opposite.
• 1:30:07
  I I didn't tell them that it was going to be negative 5.
• 1:30:10
  There's they're smart kids. They can Google the temperature
• 1:30:14
  and Springfield. It's like hmm.
• 1:30:16
  I don't think that's cool. Yeah, I don't.
• 1:30:19
  And I'm not saying that's what you did there.
• 1:30:20
  Yeah. I'm just saying, in general
• 1:30:21
  coaching with that goes on, I just I don't think that's right
• 1:30:24
  for a couple reasons, one while it may not be lying.
• 1:30:28
  As the definition of line emission of fact is also great
• 1:30:32
  honor of lying, right? But the other part of it is 2 is
• 1:30:36
  you know a coach. I'll also complain about kids
• 1:30:39
  transferring out of their program for whatever reasons and
• 1:30:42
  it's like well were you upfront completely honest with them from
• 1:30:45
  the get-go? I mean like, literally.
• 1:30:47
  Hey mister Jamaica athlete. Just letting you know, it's
• 1:30:49
  going to be negative five. Now we're happy.
• 1:30:50
  We have an indoor facility and things like that, but you gotta
• 1:30:53
  walk through it to go to class and, you know, you might be in a
• 1:30:56
  snowball fight from, you know, just kids being kids, that's
• 1:30:59
  going to suck baby for you. Have you thought about that and
• 1:31:01
  let it in let them make decision?
• 1:31:03
  Because if they make a decision, hey I coach, I love you.
• 1:31:06
  I think the school would be For me I just can't see myself
• 1:31:10
  surviving in that weather. Even I know it's just you told
• 1:31:13
  me it's basically Thanksgiving through March or whatever.
• 1:31:15
  I just I just can't good for you kid you made you made the right
• 1:31:19
  decision because you didn't come to my place and then transfer,
• 1:31:21
  which is worse, in my opinion. I know it hurts as a coach to
• 1:31:24
  hear the no. But that's actually your second
• 1:31:26
  best answer because then you can move on to the next recruit.
• 1:31:29
  How many times the recruits don't tell, you know, when
• 1:31:31
  you're like me and look at this, I know, just tell me it's like
• 1:31:32
  move on, right? Yes, is the best answer.
• 1:31:36
  So, I think being that of runt completely upfront.
• 1:31:39
  We had a kid, we're hiring and I we just were hired.
• 1:31:42
  In fact, when you're listening to this our new hire start next
• 1:31:46
  week and I'm super super excited.
• 1:31:48
  Ones from division to actually by the way yeah you're going to
• 1:31:52
  excited about her. She's amazing and one I actually
• 1:31:55
  kind of a little hint I alluded to earlier in today's podcast
• 1:31:58
  but we were interviewed another young man and he would be
• 1:32:03
  checked. All the boxes, culturally
• 1:32:06
  education, like We've I think he would have been really, really
• 1:32:10
  good and he couldn't see himself living in Illinois.
• 1:32:14
  That's funny. He's from the Jersey area but
• 1:32:16
  now had moved down to Florida for some jobs and he loved he
• 1:32:18
  likes Florida, he likes the beaches and stuff, he's like,
• 1:32:21
  yeah, I don't know. Champagne, it's cold again and
• 1:32:24
  college town. I kind of like the big city and
• 1:32:26
  he ended up turning. We offered him and he turned us
• 1:32:28
  down and a couple of us were like oh, that sucks.
• 1:32:31
  I was like no! That's awesome.
• 1:32:32
  And so it was like, what do you mind?
• 1:32:34
  What do you mean we need help. We're short-handed and it's like
• 1:32:37
  no, no, no. No, he would have come here and
• 1:32:39
  been gone in a year, which is no good for any of him or us.
• 1:32:43
  I was like he made the right decision if he can't see myself.
• 1:32:45
  Living here. I'm so happy for that.
• 1:32:47
  Like I'm so proud that he made the smart decision.
• 1:32:50
  It didn't take the more money to come here and stayed where he
• 1:32:52
  was. That's awesome friends.
• 1:32:54
  Same with recruits. If they don't come to you
• 1:32:56
  because of whatever whatever, what you think might be a dumb
• 1:32:59
  reason, whether and you're like well dude, I've lived a whole
• 1:33:01
  life, you can do this. Hey, they made the right.
• 1:33:04
  They made the right decision. Look at it like rocks and it
• 1:33:06
  came from Jamaica. Lived in Springfield Mass for
• 1:33:09
  three years with me now. She's a Minnesota.
• 1:33:13
  Weather wasn't an issue for her. No, no, it's not for everybody.
• 1:33:16
  Because, I mean, it's a, I mean, you know, I'm from Alabama.
• 1:33:18
  So I always joke all the time. I hate the winners as well.
• 1:33:20
  And I was joking. No, during travel so much in
• 1:33:23
  December January, February because I go down to Texas,
• 1:33:24
  then. Yeah.
• 1:33:25
  Texas gets a lot of my attention during those times because the
• 1:33:27
  hot weather bubble ball, that kind of stuff, right?
• 1:33:29
  But it is day. Yes, we can all survive in these
• 1:33:31
  type. We're not talking about.
• 1:33:33
  Go weather and we're not talking about Sahara.
• 1:33:34
  Desert on the hot side. You can survive in Austin,
• 1:33:37
  Texas, as well. If you're from New Jersey, you
• 1:33:40
  can do it right, you know, it's not always weather but it is the
• 1:33:43
  weather for some people write it exactly as.
• 1:33:46
  Yeah. All right.
• 1:33:47
  So, how long were you at a I see?
• 1:33:49
  And why are you still at a? I see where we are.
• 1:33:51
  Actually there for three years as an assistant, fourth year was
• 1:33:57
  a transition, they would you have left going my fourth year,
• 1:34:02
  they decided met me. In term director, which is your
• 1:34:06
  back to the head coach. Yeah, I'm back to the head coach
• 1:34:08
  a lot more knowledgeable now than you were four years.
• 1:34:11
  Earlier still Thursday, I told me, oh, I don't want this.
• 1:34:15
  Like, I don't want to be a head coach and he's like I said,
• 1:34:17
  you'll be fine as they easily. I prepared you for.
• 1:34:19
  He said, you know, as he batting it most the coaches, they're
• 1:34:21
  like, okay, like they just hire good people around you, my old
• 1:34:24
  guy so I'd kept Rich, heart around me who has been all over
• 1:34:28
  the East Coast recruiting coaching and has Do you
• 1:34:33
  experience? Just knew a lot of stuff and I
• 1:34:35
  was. Okay, this is the probably the
• 1:34:36
  best guy to keep around to help me out, you know.
• 1:34:40
  So it's him and I for a good portion of it, we had hired.
• 1:34:43
  So I did end up having to coach cross country because we didn't
• 1:34:45
  get a distance Goshen in time, we hired a distance coach,
• 1:34:48
  literally at the end of cross-country.
• 1:34:50
  And so my lat, the last year there's British took kind of the
• 1:34:54
  back burner because I'm like, all right, I can coach for it's
• 1:34:56
  like, we'll figure that out as this when the season gets here,
• 1:35:00
  as long as you guys are going through the hall training, I
• 1:35:02
  don't need To be there to necessarily to see that we can
• 1:35:05
  get some technical work in here and there, but you're going to
• 1:35:07
  be getting your Fitness and working on being ready to run
• 1:35:11
  fast. Right?
• 1:35:12
  And I got to focus on coaching distances.
• 1:35:15
  That's not my thing, you know? So we won the women's and the
• 1:35:18
  Men's Conference in each region title in cross country are
• 1:35:22
  Century. Yeah.
• 1:35:23
  Do you got us? You know, it's Prince hurdles
• 1:35:24
  koecher your distance. Coach don't say that area and it
• 1:35:32
  was. We'll see if I actually heard
• 1:35:33
  that if in the maybe he makes me edit that out.
• 1:35:35
  We'll see. We'll see.
• 1:35:36
  It was funny because Leo had told me they all.
• 1:35:39
  If you want my training, feel free, I'll send it to you.
• 1:35:41
  And I never once asked for it and it was because I was like,
• 1:35:43
  nope, I'm going to, I'm going to do this myself, which is going
• 1:35:46
  to help me wearing it. Put this together, we're going
• 1:35:48
  to make the team successful and sure enough it did.
• 1:35:52
  Now mind you knowing that that was happening, we brought in to
• 1:35:55
  Kenyan female distance Runners that went 1-2 in the region, but
• 1:35:58
  we knew, hey, we got the money. Let's go through some pretty
• 1:36:02
  good at. Fleets.
• 1:36:03
  We had a cow males and come in who end up winning the mile
• 1:36:07
  after the DQ and 1500 Outdoors that year, but we knew we had
• 1:36:12
  some talent and we built up the rest of the team around it.
• 1:36:14
  So it worked we probably we looked at it at our conference
• 1:36:18
  meet in a regional meet we didn't have to run as row or
• 1:36:20
  column and we still would have won it.
• 1:36:22
  So it was it was a good year for the men.
• 1:36:25
  Women who is the first time everyone in conference Regional
• 1:36:27
  Title so that was great see who's going to talk a lot about
• 1:36:30
  International recruiting. So what's interesting.
• 1:36:33
  And I'm assuming to you, you can you correct me?
• 1:36:36
  The reason you just said what you just said.
• 1:36:38
  You said you'll be brought into Kenyans.
• 1:36:40
  We brought in two kids from Kenya and we won but if we would
• 1:36:45
  if they would not have run we still would have won.
• 1:36:47
  No one makes that qualify for anything else.
• 1:36:49
  No one says hey, we need to take our to Floridians off.
• 1:36:52
  We still would have won. I believe you said it because
• 1:36:55
  there is a stigma that you are. I'm doing air quotes for those
• 1:36:58
  who are not watching us on YouTube that you by
• 1:37:01
  International athletes. Oh, they went and kin they went
• 1:37:04
  to Kenya and Bot their Championship because we never
• 1:37:06
  went there. No, no, no, that's what I'm
• 1:37:09
  asking. But why is there that stigma?
• 1:37:11
  Why is it just because a kid is from International, there is
• 1:37:14
  this thought of you went and bought your Champion.
• 1:37:16
  You wouldn't buy your 100 meter Champion you and by your cruise
• 1:37:18
  control, no one says that about anybody know what?
• 1:37:21
  If they I see went and got a bunch of kids from California,
• 1:37:23
  great track state, arguably a top three tracks.
• 1:37:26
  They no one was said, well, yeah, they went and bought it
• 1:37:28
  because they want to get a bunch of Californians.
• 1:37:29
  Why is there's this stigmatism to International recruiting?
• 1:37:32
  That I think especially in division 2, there's not a budget
• 1:37:36
  to travel. All the international kids over
• 1:37:40
  to do over make visited, do an official visit that we're kind
• 1:37:43
  of saying, hey, here's the money, here's what we have to
• 1:37:46
  offer. And there, it didn't happen and
• 1:37:50
  I see we got them all progression run faster, but
• 1:37:53
  there's does that not occur domestically, to we're talking
• 1:37:56
  to you, you said to division two specifically, I know there's the
• 1:37:59
  budgets are less, are there? What percentage do you think?
• 1:38:02
  Think of domestic recruits. Are you actually either a going
• 1:38:05
  to see home visit or see him at a track meet it during their
• 1:38:08
  High School time or be bringing them on campus for phishing
• 1:38:11
  sites. Thank you like, currently, I'm a
• 1:38:13
  ash, I think, every recruit that we're bringing it, we're
• 1:38:15
  bringing over 50 kids. Next year, we'll get to that.
• 1:38:17
  But I think of all those 50-something, the recruits that
• 1:38:21
  we have. They've all seen campus.
• 1:38:23
  Okay. All right.
• 1:38:24
  Okay, well, I think that's a, that's a big difference.
• 1:38:26
  There's a disparity between domestic and we're globally.
• 1:38:30
  Speaking, we're speaking for everybody which is never fair.
• 1:38:32
  Right. So there is a difference between
• 1:38:34
  domestic people coming to campus or getting a home.
• 1:38:37
  Visit versus International. Maybe more sight unseen.
• 1:38:41
  Yeah. Okay.
• 1:38:42
  But first, and I think that there's a whole signal with
• 1:38:45
  there's some distance runners or International kids specifically
• 1:38:48
  this trend in art what we're talking about right now with the
• 1:38:50
  cross country, that they run really well in their home
• 1:38:55
  country and then come to the u.s. and don't actually run
• 1:38:57
  faster. Oh no I do that.
• 1:38:59
  Okay. And and you have to look at the
• 1:39:02
  altitude and rage And so like that, but I know, like looking
• 1:39:05
  at the ones that we brought in, and yeah, they definitely ran a
• 1:39:07
  lot faster. So I guess I have heard that
• 1:39:10
  because I think I was like, I don't know if I heard that, but
• 1:39:11
  I have heard that would likes Persian jumpers because there
• 1:39:13
  is, there was for a while, kind of a cultural shift from
• 1:39:17
  specifically Jamaica and Caribbean of athletes.
• 1:39:20
  Like, you don't have to go to the u.s. to become, you know,
• 1:39:23
  like Usain Bolt and go, you know, wasn't running, he
• 1:39:25
  obviously became he's pretty good.
• 1:39:28
  So it became as like you don't have to go to the US, you can
• 1:39:30
  stay here on their domestic soil.
• 1:39:32
  And still become a superstar. So because, you know, again, the
• 1:39:36
  The Stereotype was you go to college.
• 1:39:37
  Well, they're going to run you and five events every year, a
• 1:39:40
  you're going to get burned out when that's not necessarily true
• 1:39:44
  globally. Speaking foreign language that
• 1:39:46
  do with the Kenyans is, like, a lot of them going on to be
• 1:39:48
  doctors, oh yeah, I'm bringing our medicine ideology back to
• 1:39:53
  the yeah. Yeah.
• 1:39:54
  Right Kenya and stuff like that. So yeah, that was one of the
• 1:39:57
  coolest things when I went, because came from Southern
• 1:40:00
  Connecticut State School, not much International recruiting if
• 1:40:02
  Any to go to see there like one of my sermons.
• 1:40:06
  I was like, hey, I see yet. It's your National recruiting,
• 1:40:08
  but it wasn't necessarily just bringing a Theatres what made it
• 1:40:12
  unique to have in there that there's people looking for a
• 1:40:15
  whole new way of life. Getting out of third world
• 1:40:17
  country, being able right? Have the American dream.
• 1:40:20
  Yeah, no, I'm with, that's why I asked.
• 1:40:22
  Why is there that stigma? Because to me, like, I don't
• 1:40:25
  like borders. Like, I don't believe you know,
• 1:40:27
  for my faith. I don't believe God, made
• 1:40:29
  borders, from state borders to country borders, he made this
• 1:40:32
  list. Alright.
• 1:40:33
  So a person from Kenya is to me no different than a person
• 1:40:37
  California. Did he pick up in California
• 1:40:39
  from a person from Georgia? You know, it's like you're a 18
• 1:40:42
  year old kid and in our world of track and field you run X Y and
• 1:40:45
  Z in the event. I'd love to have you on the
• 1:40:46
  team. If it's Uncle Gary King the
• 1:40:48
  European countries in undergrad they're not allowed to do Sports
• 1:40:51
  fire so then they come to the u.s. oh I want to do grad
• 1:40:55
  school. Yeah so some schools grad school
• 1:40:57
  at ASU is cheaper than was you want to grab their as a distance
• 1:41:02
  Runner they've had More years of running because they running for
• 1:41:04
  a club, right? Right.
• 1:41:05
  They weren't competing at a high level.
• 1:41:07
  So, yeah. I just don't really get your
• 1:41:09
  mileage in. I just don't like that stigma
• 1:41:12
  because you deserve two years. Yeah.
• 1:41:13
  Yeah. That the other difference.
• 1:41:15
  There is the same thing to me is like okay for people who want to
• 1:41:18
  call out that that stigma of like, well you wouldn't bought
• 1:41:20
  some shows like Okay. So let's let's take, we're just
• 1:41:23
  using these 219 by name. These two cross country Runners
• 1:41:27
  distance Runners from Kenya. But let's say they're same times
• 1:41:30
  and and makeup and build and academics.
• 1:41:32
  But instead of them being from Kenya, they were from Miami
• 1:41:35
  Florida. That's far from Springfield and
• 1:41:39
  it was whatever there was late in recruiting resources.
• 1:41:42
  They couldn't come visit. So they also signed sight.
• 1:41:44
  Unseen, no one, I've never heard this.
• 1:41:48
  No one would say, oh, they bought their Championship.
• 1:41:50
  They went out and got some kids from Florida.
• 1:41:52
  No, they would be like, you know, they got kids for Florida
• 1:41:55
  but was soon as it becomes International, it's this it
• 1:41:58
  would not. I can't stand him.
• 1:42:00
  We realize it at a I see you is that R, if we were to go that
• 1:42:04
  route with different regions of the country, it would say it
• 1:42:08
  would be a little more difficult just because there's more people
• 1:42:12
  more schools, where there's a difference in culture
• 1:42:14
  domestically, and but there's that knowledge base of you have
• 1:42:18
  all these schools in Florida or schools near floor.
• 1:42:20
  For example, if we're using part of the example of everybody
• 1:42:23
  trying to recruit those top kids.
• 1:42:25
  Mmm. Now, we have a limited selection
• 1:42:27
  of how many people know about these brought that's what some
• 1:42:30
  of the culture. There's, there's more knowledge.
• 1:42:32
  Easier knowledge of colleges because you're here, right here,
• 1:42:35
  you're right in the states and that Connecticut.
• 1:42:37
  Yeah, no. It's just always fascinates me.
• 1:42:39
  And you brought up the, I wasn't saying you were doing it, but
• 1:42:42
  the way you said it, I know it was almost like you were, it was
• 1:42:44
  a it's a natural defense for because I'm sure you heard there
• 1:42:47
  was a natural defensively. But even if we wouldn't had him,
• 1:42:50
  we would have one. It's like I don't care like no
• 1:42:52
  one would have said that the Florida.
• 1:42:53
  Yeah, that's why. I was just like, I understood
• 1:42:55
  what you're doing is like oh this natural defense.
• 1:42:56
  So that's why. When I had the discussion of
• 1:42:57
  like, why do we again globally? We do this.
• 1:43:01
  Why do we say we Bought, it's just, that's so not true.
• 1:43:04
  And I think that's just a terrible terrible way to talk
• 1:43:07
  about young kids and Athletics and athletic scholarships, by
• 1:43:10
  the way, as well. When people say that it's like,
• 1:43:12
  oh, cringe to think about what you're actually saying.
• 1:43:16
  I love Italian out of school to get recruited.
• 1:43:19
  And I think what you really, really, really nailed the point
• 1:43:23
  of, you know, I know where coaches, but we are in the
• 1:43:25
  education system here in four colleges in those.
• 1:43:28
  Kids are still coming here and getting great education's and
• 1:43:31
  they're either stay in Here in the states and helping our
• 1:43:34
  economy. Our society are met our medicine
• 1:43:37
  or they're going home and they're helping their society,
• 1:43:41
  their economy, their their hospitals, their health.
• 1:43:43
  That's a like Bravo you made a. I see made the world better
• 1:43:47
  because these two people got it operations on them.
• 1:43:49
  Got married. Stay in the u.s. became in the
• 1:43:52
  military. Yeah.
• 1:43:54
  That's what I'm saying? That's lovely.
• 1:43:56
  All right, we're going to Ashland.
• 1:43:57
  So how did you get that? So thanks for indulging me on
• 1:44:01
  these guys, I have these conversations.
• 1:44:02
  I'm just like I really want people to like I really think
• 1:44:05
  the conversation we just had their Logan.
• 1:44:07
  I truly truly think people are listening right now and they're
• 1:44:10
  like yeah, wait a minute, why do I say that?
• 1:44:13
  Like I think that's what I love about challenging beliefs as it
• 1:44:17
  relates to track and field and Society I think there's people
• 1:44:20
  are now gone. Wait a minute.
• 1:44:22
  I do say that. I kind of say that off the cuff
• 1:44:23
  because I don't know, it's what I was supposed to say.
• 1:44:25
  Oh, that's what I was taught to say.
• 1:44:26
  That's what my old coach used to say to me.
• 1:44:28
  So that's why I said, it's like now that and I think the
• 1:44:30
  conversation we just had their, I think people have said, Can I
• 1:44:33
  like wait a minute? That's true.
• 1:44:35
  They are just 18 year old kids whether they're from Miami
• 1:44:39
  Minneapolis or Nairobi why does it matter why does it matter?
• 1:44:43
  It doesn't it doesn't so I just really appreciate you being open
• 1:44:47
  with that conversation cause it's not a easy necessarily
• 1:44:50
  conversation have so you did great and I'm super, super
• 1:44:52
  thankful. Now, I will allow you to say why
• 1:44:54
  did you go to Ashland? Yeah, so so I was told that a I
• 1:44:58
  see to get the interim tag removed, I had to have a pretty
• 1:45:01
  good year, so, Let's write a turnaround about the coaching.
• 1:45:04
  You mention the Ada at the time or still ad calls me up says,
• 1:45:08
  Hey, based off of how your cross country season.
• 1:45:11
  When I think you're more than fit for the job my god let's say
• 1:45:13
  you don't tell me she said no because you want yeah she's a in
• 1:45:16
  the coming weeks at you're going to have that removed like he
• 1:45:19
  asking me for quotes and stuff like that.
• 1:45:21
  So I know it's gonna be posted. So are you pumped?
• 1:45:24
  Were you excited about this? Yeah, ma'am excitedly.
• 1:45:25
  Good in my mind, I'm like, okay, this is where my future is.
• 1:45:29
  I'm going to be the director here, I want to be able to build
• 1:45:32
  Program my way and still go off the success.
• 1:45:36
  That the owner had built before me the successively when I had
• 1:45:39
  together. Like we're going to continue
• 1:45:41
  that but now we just had a storybook fall with winning both
• 1:45:46
  Congress and regionals together, men and women with his friends,
• 1:45:49
  coach doing it. Now what can we do when we bring
• 1:45:51
  in more people? And in the direction that I
• 1:45:53
  could see it, right? And some ecstatic, get it
• 1:45:57
  removed. We now that okay, we had to hire
• 1:46:02
  to do. Essence coach start coach
• 1:46:03
  distance. Now, I'm back with the spread of
• 1:46:05
  time, you'll comfortable again, you know, and had we had Richard
• 1:46:09
  their coaching with me with the jumps and he was also working
• 1:46:11
  throws. And so was I okay.
• 1:46:14
  We start to have little bit staff.
• 1:46:15
  They give me the opportunity, yet another assistant coach and
• 1:46:18
  then I'm a G A. So I hired a ga on couldn't at
• 1:46:21
  that time around January February, you don't see many
• 1:46:27
  many assistant coaches that you're looking to hire has
• 1:46:28
  evolved and higher, right? The or they have stopped looking
• 1:46:31
  because you're like, alright, let's wait.
• 1:46:32
  So, May June comes around with all when the domino effect of
• 1:46:36
  jobs happens, right? So I was like, let's hold off on
• 1:46:40
  that one. We have women with indoor
• 1:46:43
  conference for the first time indoors bring people to
• 1:46:47
  Nationals. We had one of the best finishes
• 1:46:49
  ever Internationals, get Outdoors while going through all
• 1:46:52
  that. We had a new vice president
• 1:46:54
  Athletics hired and he wanted to kind of change the way things
• 1:46:58
  were going so and not in his mind, it wasn't necessarily
• 1:47:02
  Changing it for a bad, it was changing for good.
• 1:47:04
  He's trying to help the school out and saying, hey, this is my
• 1:47:07
  way of making revenue for the school.
• 1:47:09
  This is what we're going to do now and that's where we got
• 1:47:11
  lemon. No more International recruiting
• 1:47:14
  couldn't go to certain Meats, budget.
• 1:47:16
  We're all going to be cut and it was in my mind.
• 1:47:19
  I'm like, all right, we're taking away, and I was like, in
• 1:47:22
  my mind, I'm not a business major, but I know you got to
• 1:47:24
  spend money to make some money sometimes.
• 1:47:26
  So I'm like, we're taking all this money away and then we're
• 1:47:28
  telling kids, hey what you no longer going to get this
• 1:47:31
  scholarship. Next year.
• 1:47:33
  And I know that she will lay is on this whole thing of no
• 1:47:37
  scholarship has to be renewed its year to year basis, which I
• 1:47:40
  completely agree with. But now he's telling kids that
• 1:47:42
  have had success. There are not doing bad in
• 1:47:44
  school, he's telling me you have to figure out how you're going
• 1:47:47
  to make up the scholarship deficit with what's what we
• 1:47:50
  have. And I'm like this.
• 1:47:52
  This looks messed up. So I'm going to kids that are
• 1:47:55
  from Kenya from Jamaica. That we had made.
• 1:47:58
  Sure they were fully funded because they needed in order to
• 1:48:00
  go to school. They needed a full They didn't
• 1:48:02
  have any money, I'm telling you, it's hey, I have to take a
• 1:48:05
  thousand dollars, two thousand dollars or 5,000 or 10,000 from
• 1:48:09
  you even though you have done nothing wrong.
• 1:48:13
  And in my mind and my this is Batman was these kids.
• 1:48:15
  Can you for Education? Didn't come here just to run?
• 1:48:19
  Even our domestic kids. Now they're going to be stacked
• 1:48:22
  so now we're going to now I'm telling these kids hey you're
• 1:48:24
  getting your same scholarship but no it's going to say that
• 1:48:26
  you're not getting much athletic. 8 even though we told
• 1:48:28
  you because your athletic ability you're getting this out,
• 1:48:31
  okay? Now you're getting more in
• 1:48:32
  academic 8 because we don't have that athletic 8 and it was just
• 1:48:36
  a weird scenario. I being a young guy was like,
• 1:48:41
  no, I'm gonna fight back on this.
• 1:48:42
  I'm gonna fight for my My program.
• 1:48:43
  Like this program looks really good right now, we're really
• 1:48:46
  talented. We're building from this.
• 1:48:48
  Let's let's keep moving forward. Let's not have to take steps
• 1:48:50
  back and and I told the guy I'm all times like, Hey listen like
• 1:48:56
  this, this is the right way. I don't like this and we got
• 1:49:00
  through outdoor track. Everything's going well.
• 1:49:02
  Go to the golf tournament the next day after golf tournament I
• 1:49:04
  get an email from our and mind. You I talked with Ernie Clark
• 1:49:08
  back in like March about what is going on Ashland and he's out of
• 1:49:12
  San Jose, Santa Actually your help is I get your one guy if I
• 1:49:15
  would say they could use a coat. She's like your one guy would
• 1:49:18
  call to, have you go to Ashland to go coach you and I talked
• 1:49:21
  about moving on to different jobs and what it?
• 1:49:24
  What it did for it him to go to San Jose.
• 1:49:26
  Now, he's like, I want you to be able to go there.
• 1:49:28
  He's like, if you can go there in the spring, go coach to
• 1:49:31
  Ashland Street, my journey I can't leave my team like I'm
• 1:49:33
  director of, it's me. There's no way I can go over
• 1:49:35
  there and just being assistant right now.
• 1:49:37
  It's not happening. Can't just step in that role,
• 1:49:40
  you know. So we get to golf tournament
• 1:49:43
  right after it outdoor Nationals and goes fine.
• 1:49:46
  The next day an email from HR. Please report to HR for Urgent
• 1:49:50
  matter 8:30 tomorrow morning. Never the email.
• 1:49:53
  You want to get. I've never gotten an email like
• 1:49:55
  that right now. I'm like, what just happened?
• 1:49:57
  So, I'm good what's running through your mind because
• 1:50:00
  there's 1,000 scenarios, you can paint their.
• 1:50:01
  Oh, a kid. Something's wrong with it.
• 1:50:03
  Yeah, in my mind, I'm like, what did I do wrong weird?
• 1:50:06
  Yeah, right. What did I do wrong?
• 1:50:07
  An assistant. Do quite a billion things.
• 1:50:09
  Yeah, right. So So I'm like, what just
• 1:50:11
  happened? And so I'm calling it, my
• 1:50:13
  assistant coach and I was a, have you heard anything that
• 1:50:15
  what's up, right? Athletes say something.
• 1:50:17
  You did you report something like what's going on?
• 1:50:19
  Do I was like, this doesn't sound good though so I'm calling
• 1:50:21
  for oversized. He's bored.
• 1:50:23
  Oh, there's like this. Don't sound good for you.
• 1:50:24
  Right. I call my store owners say and
• 1:50:26
  he was always more of a positive value so maybe just maybe
• 1:50:29
  they're just trying to look at something that Administration
• 1:50:30
  that you would say to comment or a huge come up with different
• 1:50:34
  scenarios of what it could be. And so I called nutrition
• 1:50:37
  ignored like straight to voicemail.
• 1:50:39
  Yeah - 4 over. The ad.
• 1:50:42
  Yeah, I'm calling everybody who but when you think about it you
• 1:50:45
  know. That's what they had to do that.
• 1:50:47
  Right? Hold you know.
• 1:50:48
  Yeah the coaches like hey you have this.
• 1:50:50
  No. But I've heard of this with this
• 1:50:52
  person that didn't go. Well, just go luck.
• 1:50:54
  Let me know what happens. Okay, nothing sending easing.
• 1:50:57
  Talk to my parents about it. Really.
• 1:50:59
  Oh the like my parents like what did you do wrong?
• 1:51:02
  Oh my God. Thanks Mom.
• 1:51:04
  We just had a career, the season.
• 1:51:07
  Like this is probably the best season as he's ever had, like
• 1:51:10
  what I do. No, what happened and like none
• 1:51:13
  of the kids left, really mad? Like they're all pretty good and
• 1:51:18
  talking to Leo. He's like, yeah, he's like, I
• 1:51:19
  don't know. He's like, he's like they can't
• 1:51:20
  do anything to you that you probably.
• 1:51:22
  All right. Show up to a try and explore.
• 1:51:24
  Were you more nervous? Because I remember you talking
• 1:51:26
  about, when you went in for your interview at New Haven, you
• 1:51:28
  know, first interview your super nervous when you think about in
• 1:51:31
  just nerves and nervousness, more nervous, going into the
• 1:51:34
  interview or more nervous, walking into the HR department,
• 1:51:36
  one arishok, nhi. Because I in my mind, I'm like,
• 1:51:41
  My life's over. Like here's what I put all my
• 1:51:44
  time and energy into this one position this year.
• 1:51:48
  And now all of a sudden I don't know what's going on, I'll walk
• 1:51:51
  in and there's a cop in there. Billy.
• 1:51:54
  Wait a second. I'm not getting arrested what
• 1:51:56
  like what has happened. And so, and I'm friends with a
• 1:52:00
  cop, the cop said all the track meets some time we met I was
• 1:52:02
  going on. He's like, he's I'm here for a
• 1:52:04
  meeting at 8:30 a.m. like me too because I was there early,
• 1:52:07
  right? Like this is really awkward HR
• 1:52:10
  walks in sits down and unfortunately we're terminating
• 1:52:14
  your position. Your there's no longer director
• 1:52:16
  track and field. A I see.
• 1:52:18
  And I was like, that's okay. I was like, so I'm going to be
• 1:52:20
  the head coach. Like that's fine, just put me
• 1:52:22
  back down. And Coach like no because you
• 1:52:24
  had hired a head coach underneath you, for track.
• 1:52:28
  Your position is gone. You no longer have a position
• 1:52:30
  here. Be like, please turn in your
• 1:52:32
  keys and was a week. I asked why the like, like, we
• 1:52:35
  don't have to have reasons why it's a hire and fire at will do
• 1:52:39
  the right to work or something. Yeah.
• 1:52:40
  Our fire be. I will ya.
• 1:52:42
  And I was like, did I do anything wrong?
• 1:52:43
  Like, you did nothing wrong. It's just, we're removing your
• 1:52:46
  position. So of course I'm like, okay, I
• 1:52:50
  was like, what was the cop? Therefore was that more just
• 1:52:52
  like Kiss you flipped out or something?
• 1:52:55
  I asked the HIV have a police officer here, and for all these
• 1:52:59
  types of situations in case something happens, basically
• 1:53:01
  flip out. She was scared of me.
• 1:53:04
  I don't think you said that. Yeah, that you're sort of.
• 1:53:07
  Oh, good, we're not scared. He's here to escort you off
• 1:53:13
  campus. It was like, okay, I'm like,
• 1:53:16
  that's fine. I was like, can I go back to my
• 1:53:17
  office? To grab my stuff.
• 1:53:20
  Can I go to the track shed to get all my equipment?
• 1:53:21
  I get your stuff. Yeah, Oh no, you're not going to
• 1:53:24
  play here. So that's considered trespassing
• 1:53:26
  and we'll pack it up for you. Do Logan.
• 1:53:31
  Nope, you are guest number 208 and I thought, you know, I
• 1:53:37
  figured after 100. I might have heard every story.
• 1:53:39
  Definitely after 200, I have heard every story, no one has,
• 1:53:43
  come on the show. And said, I was escorted off my
• 1:53:46
  campus and if anybody, anybody would have said they would like,
• 1:53:51
  oh, it's because you did something really bad that you
• 1:53:53
  stole from that, like, none of that Logan.
• 1:53:57
  I know it's a short career But this, I can't imagine that this
• 1:54:02
  is not like the lowest of low lights like never imagined of
• 1:54:05
  all the bad things you think could have happened in a career,
• 1:54:08
  right? This never even came.
• 1:54:10
  Like, this is absurdity. This ain't happening.
• 1:54:12
  How are you feeling during this? I didn't know what to feel.
• 1:54:17
  I was like, all right, I'm like now, I am like numbness.
• 1:54:22
  Yeah, like I was calling people laughing.
• 1:54:24
  I was like, huh, I'm done. No like what was like?
• 1:54:26
  Yeah, this is what happened and so did it look?
• 1:54:30
  Even real, like they feel like, okay they're going to call me
• 1:54:32
  tomorrow and be like, I even fools or something right now or
• 1:54:34
  I'm gonna wake up from this dream and it's like, what a
• 1:54:36
  terrible dream? Yep.
• 1:54:38
  No, that's exactly how I was kind of feeling.
• 1:54:40
  And So within the next day, like talking with video talking Rich,
• 1:54:43
  there was a okay what's your next move?
• 1:54:45
  And there it was. Okay, I got apply places like
• 1:54:49
  luckily there is the Nugget of that story.
• 1:54:53
  You didn't know I love this this.
• 1:54:56
  Yeah, this this Bears digging in here a little bit.
• 1:54:59
  It and how it, you know, I want to be respectful your time.
• 1:55:02
  We are at our time. Are you good?
• 1:55:04
  Okay, we got, we have practice at one.
• 1:55:07
  I've been here, too. So, we're gone.
• 1:55:08
  What will be good there? But what's interesting is, I
• 1:55:11
  mean, this is a pretty low part of your career.
• 1:55:14
  Not a pretty low. Come on, let's not sugarcoat.
• 1:55:16
  This, this is, I can't imagine, I can't imagine I can't imagine
• 1:55:21
  in there again. There's a fork in the road.
• 1:55:23
  You have a lot of decisions, you can make here, and I think, a
• 1:55:25
  lot of people would take time to lick.
• 1:55:28
  Their wounds woe is me. I've been wronged all troops by
• 1:55:33
  the way, but instead you called your people, in the people, your
• 1:55:37
  mentors, your advisors your network, that you surround
• 1:55:40
  yourself. Both of y'all together are like,
• 1:55:43
  I was our next move, like no time for feeling sad.
• 1:55:47
  What's my next move? That's that's important.
• 1:55:50
  So is interesting. I met up with I think there's
• 1:55:53
  two or three days later. I met up with Leo and Nick, no
• 1:55:55
  Heimer, who's at New Haven. When I was there coaching, he
• 1:55:57
  still there, and we sat at, A Starbucks for probably about
• 1:56:01
  four or five hours. They were writing training my,
• 1:56:03
  well, I don't have any summer training to write, and I just
• 1:56:05
  sat there, filling out job applications for all different
• 1:56:08
  schools, all over the country there where you want to go.
• 1:56:09
  Like, I don't know. Anyway, And that it was that
• 1:56:13
  same morning. Before I got Leo, could pick me
• 1:56:16
  up as I listen to, I don't want you spending gas money, I don't
• 1:56:18
  want you doing anything and I was sitting outside waiting to
• 1:56:21
  pick me up and in my phone, I had I had already talked to
• 1:56:24
  Ernie Clark about and he's like well he's like called the new
• 1:56:26
  head coach at Ashland call of age.
• 1:56:27
  He's uh got going on and so I was randomly like and I talked
• 1:56:31
  to Eric Evans he was saying the same things like he's aged, he's
• 1:56:33
  waiting for a phone call from you and I just didn't know how
• 1:56:35
  to approach it saying. Oh yeah, just got.
• 1:56:37
  Let go to place. How do I go and just talk to it
• 1:56:39
  but yeah, I'm hire me. You know, did before.
• 1:56:42
  Before you get to AG, who I love by the way, I am a, I've been a
• 1:56:46
  huge AG fan. Since I met him at division to
• 1:56:49
  Nationals with Judd, Logan, by the way.
• 1:56:50
  Okay, I was so naive. I don't know who AG was and
• 1:56:53
  rehearsing thrower. And I'm talking with Judd who I
• 1:56:56
  hired Jud, son here at gil. My first hire Nate Logan.
• 1:56:59
  Yeah, so I became really good friends with Judd again, Judd
• 1:57:02
  another podcast along here, and if you haven't listened to his
• 1:57:04
  episode get fired up and get ready.
• 1:57:07
  We mentioned a couple of you in order to go to the interview.
• 1:57:09
  Yeah. By the way, you mentioned it, I
• 1:57:13
  can't not mention Pascal podcast, alums that.
• 1:57:16
  We've also mentioned. Crisp are no Paco, castellum
• 1:57:18
  Ernie, Clark. Yep, podcast loan.
• 1:57:20
  Go back, great again, where an episode 208, you got 207 to
• 1:57:23
  catch up on if this is your first episode.
• 1:57:28
  So, I got to tell the story real quick, so I go to division two
• 1:57:30
  national as I'm talking with Judd and there's AG there.
• 1:57:34
  And in his badge, says was an athletic trainer, something like
• 1:57:38
  that. I'm like dude I was like you're
• 1:57:40
  a pretty big athletic trainer and easy and he was like, well
• 1:57:43
  actually I'm a kind of help Jed coach and I'm a thrower and this
• 1:57:46
  is how I got into the, you know. I'm and I was like, oh and then
• 1:57:49
  I found out who EG was like, oh dude, that was so dumb.
• 1:57:53
  Like he's with its best and I'm just like their big ol athletic
• 1:57:56
  trainer. Yeah.
• 1:57:58
  So before we get to AG because again, I didn't I now since
• 1:58:01
  then, I've gone to known and just loving that could buy some
• 1:58:04
  for that later on when I go, please do say, hey, Mike said,
• 1:58:07
  you weren't athletic trainer when he mentioned he won't even
• 1:58:09
  ever the story. Don't remember.
• 1:58:10
  Anyway, but at this point, before you we'd get to AG any
• 1:58:14
  creep into your mind of like, like disillusionment
• 1:58:18
  disenchantment of the profession of coaching is like, why am I
• 1:58:21
  doing this? Should I just go go?
• 1:58:23
  Let me go. Lean back on my exercise.
• 1:58:25
  Fizz education, Dallas. So, when I'm applying for jobs,
• 1:58:29
  I'm looking online and like, Yale New Haven Hospital up.
• 1:58:31
  Cardiac rehab specialist. I'm like maybe going to spend a
• 1:58:35
  year doing this maybe and started just looking at things
• 1:58:38
  like because I was like, I'm I'd already been told.
• 1:58:41
  Hey, make sure you collect unemployment and be get it
• 1:58:43
  filled out immediately there, like Massachusetts takes
• 1:58:44
  forever. That AIC takes forever with us.
• 1:58:46
  We'll make sure you get that done.
• 1:58:47
  So that was done day one, and it probably took a month for
• 1:58:50
  anything to kick in with that. So I went the whole month with
• 1:58:53
  nothing and I think, I think you, but thank you, for being
• 1:58:57
  honest there, because Yeah, you know, same thing.
• 1:58:59
  I had a big thing on my tenth year of coaching in Mississippi
• 1:59:01
  State, and I was like, maybe this isn't for me.
• 1:59:04
  I thought I wanted to be a big time.
• 1:59:05
  You know, my whole career was to get to the SEC as I thought.
• 1:59:07
  This is what I wanted. So we get completely.
• 1:59:09
  That's how I got the biggest. Let me can completely away and
• 1:59:11
  see if it brings me back and thank God it did.
• 1:59:13
  So I appreciate you being honest been out in the private sector
• 1:59:16
  and like yeah I'm like I'm Ashley I say like I'm too young
• 1:59:20
  and I'm not known well enough yet to get a really good athlete
• 1:59:24
  literature that high level. So my opened a trout doing it.
• 1:59:28
  Club and my all this is going to cost money.
• 1:59:30
  Yeah. All these things are going
• 1:59:31
  through your head. What are my options?
• 1:59:33
  What are my options? I love that.
• 1:59:34
  It was funny because I went back to my memory, I was like you
• 1:59:37
  know what will write when when he after he retired he went on
• 1:59:40
  to other schools to coach after Southern and I remember seeing
• 1:59:42
  him at meetings I gave me two three, golden rules to live by.
• 1:59:46
  He passed away to a year or so ago and he's like if you're
• 1:59:49
  going to go into coaching, get a real job first.
• 1:59:52
  The number one, I didn't do that.
• 1:59:54
  I didn't listen to them. That second one.
• 1:59:57
  If you're going to go into coaching, make sure you have a
• 1:59:58
  bucket hat because he had a bunch of issues with skin cancer
• 2:00:02
  I think with his year. So that's I love that because we
• 2:00:05
  don't take care of ourselves. We don't use sunscreen, we don't
• 2:00:08
  do that. Yes, I love that.
• 2:00:10
  And the third one was with her decisions.
• 2:00:12
  With touchdown times, I got to know the touchdown times.
• 2:00:15
  Is it touchdown times, right? They're not running.
• 2:00:17
  Well, he's a you got me sometimes your bed but that
• 2:00:19
  really ran the gamut there. Yeah.
• 2:00:22
  Good-o every meet you bring us three things up to me.
• 2:00:25
  And I got things like, man, I didn't get a real job, like
• 2:00:30
  track coaching High real job, it's fun.
• 2:00:33
  It's not the 9 to 5 or part-time thing that's going to make you a
• 2:00:37
  lot of money. And if that was the reason why
• 2:00:38
  you said it was like you want to be able to make you money first.
• 2:00:41
  If you have Loans pay your loans off because his coach you're not
• 2:00:44
  gonna be making the right amount of money I was like okay and
• 2:00:46
  sure enough he was right at that point it was like this is a
• 2:00:49
  rough rough time period to be in And now, everything's open back
• 2:00:53
  up with because it covid, it's like things, you might have more
• 2:00:55
  expensive to do, like it would. And so I talked to AG that
• 2:01:01
  morning before I got in the car and Leo Dash music.
• 2:01:05
  How'd that go my pretty good. He's just asked me.
• 2:01:07
  What my coach philosophy was you like?
• 2:01:08
  What would you tell him is like, depends.
• 2:01:10
  I was like, depends on the athlete.
• 2:01:13
  He's like, he's like see group, a got.
• 2:01:14
  My gal, like coaching is very big lie.
• 2:01:16
  There's a lot of different ways to skin a cat.
• 2:01:18
  I wasn't going to tell him how much speed based guy.
• 2:01:20
  I'm a strength-based guy like Okay, I have got punched her
• 2:01:23
  philosophies that I work through, and depends on the
• 2:01:26
  athlete. Depends what I find in them and
• 2:01:28
  I was like, and it may change as they go through their career.
• 2:01:30
  And through their Seasons, he's like, oh, okay, is it?
• 2:01:33
  What'd he say, he said, he'd get back to me, it's wrong that
• 2:01:36
  whole morning all afternoon online iPhone applications and
• 2:01:40
  I'm looking at schools and I do not want to be at the school but
• 2:01:43
  it's a spot. Don't want to be at this school
• 2:01:44
  but it'll get me through for a year.
• 2:01:47
  It will get me through six months.
• 2:01:48
  Like that's the way I was looking at it.
• 2:01:50
  Like what can I do? Looking at all the other jobs.
• 2:01:52
  Mine. Do this for the summer and it
• 2:01:54
  was in a loft space of. What do I do?
• 2:01:58
  You know, but it was people that call me or my hey, did you do
• 2:02:01
  this? Did you do this?
• 2:02:02
  Did you see this job? Are you all right?
• 2:02:04
  It was a, it was a vigorous couple weeks and then a week
• 2:02:06
  later AG called me and was like, Hey, going to get an email like
• 2:02:11
  okay he's like, yep. Don't get email and watch on
• 2:02:14
  campus next week and he basically hung up It was like
• 2:02:18
  okay I'm like I don't know what this is about so I get an email
• 2:02:22
  him Elizabeth Hope should I'm in straighter and it was the email
• 2:02:25
  was hey we like teacher on campus we're gonna schedule you
• 2:02:28
  a flight. Now I mind you I've never really
• 2:02:30
  been outside the East Coast for coaching.
• 2:02:32
  My well they're flying me out there.
• 2:02:33
  This is big-time. This is how many really nervous
• 2:02:36
  oh by the way we're gonna book you a hotel where you get your
• 2:02:38
  rental car and it was the big kicker was put this stuff on
• 2:02:41
  your card and will reimburse you Wait, and I'm like, wait a
• 2:02:46
  minute. I'm I'm supposed to be
• 2:02:47
  collecting unemployment right now, and that's not even kicking
• 2:02:49
  in and I took the pay cut for a. I see I've been living like a
• 2:02:53
  month. Like whoa, this is a big, this
• 2:02:55
  guy hurt night. I'm not one of those guys.
• 2:02:57
  It's going to go to Mom and Dad say, hey Mom, Dad, I need a
• 2:03:01
  thousand dollars to do this. Like, just going to stay humble,
• 2:03:04
  figure it out, you know, here I am expecting the credit card,
• 2:03:09
  they liked it, and they reimburse it really quickly, but
• 2:03:11
  a week later, they for me on campus and it was However is
• 2:03:15
  last Big Workout cover basses. Last Big Workout.
• 2:03:18
  Another Gil podcast Alum. I'm I'm Facebook and Instagram
• 2:03:23
  messaging him and my hey like what's Ashland life and talking
• 2:03:25
  to Shane Phillips like hey what's Ash on Mike?
• 2:03:28
  What is it to do out there? And really all it's a nice,
• 2:03:31
  small community and am I okay? And so I'm looking around.
• 2:03:35
  So I pull up and I was like, are we going to get the school
• 2:03:37
  working out? And he needs workout time and I
• 2:03:40
  pulled up right in the middle to work out.
• 2:03:42
  And by the way, I was talking to Eric Evans.
• 2:03:43
  Like, yeah, I'm coming the day ahead of time.
• 2:03:45
  I want to really explore and figure out what I'm looking at
• 2:03:47
  before. It's to Eric and I had went had
• 2:03:50
  dinner and stuff like that, but I go out to the track and curves
• 2:03:53
  out there working out, he's like, man, this is the first
• 2:03:56
  time I've ever been over eight hurdles and practice at once was
• 2:03:59
  like, oh and I got thinking like Ernie Clark Training in this.
• 2:04:04
  This is where we're sitting and he's like yeah he's like a
• 2:04:07
  hurdles in. He had done work out.
• 2:04:08
  I think it was eight hurdles, five hurdles for hurdles or
• 2:04:10
  three hurdles. I don't know.
• 2:04:12
  Exactly. Remember, but we had sat there
• 2:04:13
  for a long time, talked to a couple of the athletes were out
• 2:04:15
  there and a couple of the alumni were still out hanging out and I
• 2:04:20
  was like okay this is pretty comfortable with it.
• 2:04:22
  Trevor Ed first nature? Did he say I don't have time to
• 2:04:25
  give you a tour but that's the tallest building.
• 2:04:27
  In Ashland right there. Ashland County there was a
• 2:04:29
  library. Yeah.
• 2:04:30
  No. Like that's not a big building
• 2:04:31
  that here. I am actually feel you got boss
• 2:04:36
  and you got New York City. Am I?
• 2:04:38
  That's the tallest building. Okay.
• 2:04:40
  Well, I grew up in Upstate New York.
• 2:04:42
  The next day, we go to the interview and a Gtech interviews
• 2:04:46
  at 8:30, which I'm like 8:30 interview that's early.
• 2:04:49
  Like that means for me to get ready at the hotel.
• 2:04:52
  Having breakfast. Feel good about everything.
• 2:04:54
  I'm getting up early, so I'm of 8 a.m. he texts me.
• 2:04:57
  Hey, it was literally like, hey, see you at the at the troops
• 2:05:01
  enter? 8:30 a.m. can't wait to meet
• 2:05:03
  you. I'm like, okay, and I was like,
• 2:05:06
  it's the parking. Lot is the one across the
• 2:05:08
  street, correct? He's like, yep.
• 2:05:10
  And so I pull up a fight. Tenderly, he goes, I'll be here,
• 2:05:13
  waiting. I'm like, I just pulled in.
• 2:05:15
  He's okay, come on in. So I go in and we sit down and
• 2:05:17
  his officers cross your mind right now and about an hour
• 2:05:21
  worth with him, he's like, explain yourself.
• 2:05:24
  It's been who you are. And I'm like, okay, they got
• 2:05:27
  coach puffy, he mentioned the same exact thing on the phone.
• 2:05:30
  He's and it was very, he had few words to say, very quick to the
• 2:05:35
  point where I just wanted. Listen.
• 2:05:37
  I got done is okay, so you're gonna go into her gonna go meet
• 2:05:40
  with ad and afterwards you're going to have you meet with the
• 2:05:43
  athletes on Zoom like okay goes and we had lunch and we go
• 2:05:47
  through all that and on the way out he said yeah it's like if I
• 2:05:49
  hire you they want to coach Maltese, you want to go to
• 2:05:52
  deliver the jumps. You like, we need through.
• 2:05:54
  We're missing some coaches, where I need you to fill some
• 2:05:55
  shots when. Yeah, I've worked with some
• 2:05:57
  jumpers worked with small size, would be all right.
• 2:05:59
  I think we can manage until we get more questions.
• 2:06:01
  Okay, it was well, let me know when you're home.
• 2:06:03
  Safe and give me a call. Okay, so I go to the airport.
• 2:06:07
  Work at, I drove around more a shame, just to get my general
• 2:06:10
  senses, it go to the airport and I'm calling parents and like,
• 2:06:15
  weird thing is, I was never asked an interview question and
• 2:06:18
  they're like what? And I was like, no interview
• 2:06:20
  question at all is why we want you here.
• 2:06:23
  How King the athletic director? This is why we want you here.
• 2:06:26
  The athletes were, what are you going to do for us?
• 2:06:29
  There was never a Aid. Are you good at this?
• 2:06:32
  Are you most? What's your what's your
• 2:06:34
  philosophy with this and only assistant coaches outside?
• 2:06:39
  They saw us and it turned into me realizing that go to the
• 2:06:44
  airport. And then all of a sudden flight
• 2:06:46
  cancelled, I'm stuck in Ohio. Oh no, I'm apology and my hey,
• 2:06:51
  I'm sucking Ohio and you're not going to get the phone that
• 2:06:53
  Phone call that. Hey, I'm back.
• 2:06:54
  All right. Yeah, I'm not safe.
• 2:06:55
  I'm not home. Don't be waiting for that.
• 2:06:59
  It was like a whole thing in my up, want me to leave, so I get
• 2:07:01
  home and call him finally. And he goes, yeah, he's like
• 2:07:05
  one, offer you okay. Ainsley, he's like, when can you
• 2:07:10
  start? I'm like, I gotta move
• 2:07:11
  everything from Massachusetts to Ohio, so it, but it was very
• 2:07:16
  quick. I got you realize, who he was
• 2:07:18
  because it was very, and he joked.
• 2:07:20
  He's like, yo, I'm very much like Judd, but I got my own
• 2:07:23
  waste. And the very short to the point
• 2:07:27
  and got how to get things done. And his day is set up.
• 2:07:30
  Still to the day was like, when he was training, every 10
• 2:07:32
  minutes is planned out. If you're over that 10 minutes,
• 2:07:35
  he's moving on and some of that within our program that's
• 2:07:38
  adjusting to now. So, it's a duo with the biggest
• 2:07:43
  question that I was asked, when I came here is, are you going to
• 2:07:45
  be able to be here? Hmm.
• 2:07:46
  And I was like, what do you mean they're like?
• 2:07:48
  Do you like this town? Like I grew up in town like this
• 2:07:50
  and they were concerned because they knew I was from cities.
• 2:07:53
  And right, like we don't want to bring in somebody to halfway
• 2:07:55
  through the years homesick like no like this like my hometown.
• 2:07:58
  So It's very parallel to how you recruit the questions.
• 2:08:04
  You ask the concerns, you have to how you recruit an assistant
• 2:08:08
  coach as well as within a month of AAC saying.
• 2:08:13
  Hey we're going this direction a month later I was at Ashland.
• 2:08:17
  Wow, that's amazing. Quick to you know, when we
• 2:08:23
  started today lookin I always think I have a sense of how the
• 2:08:28
  story is going to go. I don't do.
• 2:08:30
  We didn't mention this, tell you about this in the pre-interview,
• 2:08:33
  but in the pre-interview typically, I'll tell our guests.
• 2:08:36
  Hey, I don't do any pre-research.
• 2:08:38
  It allows me to kind of keep my curiosity cap on and just ask
• 2:08:41
  questions. So, I don't know where you've
• 2:08:42
  been and why and all those kind of things.
• 2:08:44
  So, but I'm kind of a pretty like most, you know, we're gonna
• 2:08:47
  go this direction, the directions we took today my
• 2:08:50
  friend, holy cow, man, and I love it because that's what
• 2:08:54
  first of all I love lifting up and honoring.
• 2:08:56
  What you've done? You mean the things that you've
• 2:08:58
  done not only positively, Really, but the things that
• 2:09:01
  you've been through negatively professionally, those are what
• 2:09:03
  makes you who you are today. And then on the same token for
• 2:09:07
  listeners who will listen to this today.
• 2:09:09
  And two years, five years from now, someone will listen to this
• 2:09:13
  podcast. And they'll, they'll hear a
• 2:09:16
  story of like, never giving up. No feeling.
• 2:09:19
  Sorry for yourself, something. Something's going to happen to
• 2:09:22
  you bad. At some point in your life,
• 2:09:23
  you're going to lose a loved one.
• 2:09:25
  You're going to lose a job. Hopefully, you're not called an
• 2:09:27
  HR with a cop. That's pretty low on the totem
• 2:09:29
  pole. But even hitting a low Point
• 2:09:32
  like that positivity bounce back can come from that and you're a
• 2:09:36
  great example of that as we round out today knowing that
• 2:09:40
  this is published on the Monday of division, two national.
• 2:09:45
  So you and I are both in Pueblo at this point when this
• 2:09:49
  publishes give us a prediction. I want to hear in this is on wax
• 2:09:54
  so you can take this back and I'll let and I'm going to open
• 2:09:57
  it up to whatever prediction you want meaning whether it's
• 2:09:59
  specific. Akley for Ashland and Ashland
• 2:10:01
  athlete or just a meat in general.
• 2:10:03
  Just what do you think about this week?
• 2:10:05
  As soon as your first time in Pueblo as well.
• 2:10:08
  Okay. All right.
• 2:10:09
  Yeah. No.
• 2:10:09
  It's a good. It's a good place.
• 2:10:11
  Oh, that's right. Well, you had Nationals there
• 2:10:13
  before, right? Yeah, that's right.
• 2:10:14
  Susie said that as I have course, what do you what do you
• 2:10:17
  thinking about for this week? Let's get too excited heading
• 2:10:20
  into Pueblo for division to Nationals.
• 2:10:23
  It's so I it was one of my favorite Meats back when I was a
• 2:10:26
  college athlete around the corner, hurdles are in the 4x4
• 2:10:28
  there. So knowing for Ashland it's a
• 2:10:33
  growing year for us. Like I said we're going to have
• 2:10:35
  50 plus your troops next year. We lost a number of them last
• 2:10:39
  year before I was able to get here, a couple kids said,
• 2:10:41
  transfer out, go kids had to leave because family issues, but
• 2:10:46
  we realize in this year's you going here.
• 2:10:49
  So it's more. So what we have going in I think
• 2:10:53
  that this group is pretty dominant for what we have and I
• 2:10:58
  mean we're talking about this before our last chance me that
• 2:11:00
  we have this coming week, we had what they were doing.
• 2:11:03
  So I'm also right now, trying to kind of look at what, what could
• 2:11:08
  transpire in these, but it was the year that we've had Ashland
• 2:11:12
  has been remarkable. Lots of top 10 marks.
• 2:11:15
  All-time school records for y1 and women's 400, which we're
• 2:11:20
  going to this last chance me, we're still trying to get Get
• 2:11:22
  our 401 inward it's the best the GMAC has ever seen 4590 yet.
• 2:11:27
  It's still sitting 16. So it's one of those things
• 2:11:29
  where we're going to have one of our best years.
• 2:11:33
  Overall and Sprint's throws. The people keep crying, but it's
• 2:11:40
  still. It's exciting to see where
• 2:11:41
  division 2 is gone through. Yeah.
• 2:11:43
  Like you look at the times. I used to go into the hurdles,
• 2:11:46
  top three in the nation. I 51.
• 2:11:48
  That does he make top 10? Hmm.
• 2:11:49
  You know, for by ones, like last year, I had a team that ran
• 2:11:55
  about five tenths of a second half, a second slower, and we
• 2:11:59
  were only like the third team out.
• 2:12:02
  And now a sudden, Daddy's on the Virgin, I'm making it.
• 2:12:05
  And I keep telling the girls, now we gotta run faster, so I'm
• 2:12:08
  not maybe at this point. We are in there.
• 2:12:10
  I don't know. We'll see going to that by our
• 2:12:13
  4x4. We ran it three and 342 at a
• 2:12:17
  conference in which again not it's not our school record but
• 2:12:20
  facility record. So like that.
• 2:12:22
  And that's thing temp which there's teams run through 35.
• 2:12:27
  So it's crazy how fast and develop the vision.
• 2:12:30
  She's gone. I'm not sure because you covid,
• 2:12:32
  if it's going to stay that way, Yeah, I think if it stays that
• 2:12:34
  way for another year it's going to be permanent but it's
• 2:12:37
  exciting me. We got to watch Court dealt inch
• 2:12:39
  from Pitt State run second time on all time while condition.
• 2:12:43
  So it's it's an event for me to watch.
• 2:12:45
  I that's why I've stayed in division 2 so far, I've been
• 2:12:48
  really want to move on division one.
• 2:12:49
  But it's been exciting thing to see that Development Division 2.
• 2:12:53
  So it's a fantastic meet. I've attended the division, two
• 2:12:57
  indoor and outdoor Nationals. Now, for the past couple of
• 2:12:59
  years and it's phenomenal. I mean, it's literally that's
• 2:13:03
  Like I've stopped thinking about this like I don't like that.
• 2:13:06
  It's called D1 D2 D3 because there's a hierarchy of numbers.
• 2:13:09
  It's like man it's just a different division, different
• 2:13:11
  collection of schools. But there are coaches there
• 2:13:15
  buddy and just go look at the results and that will tell you
• 2:13:18
  all you need to know their you don't go to D2 because you like
• 2:13:20
  to like well I'll just, you know, I'll be an okay Coach.
• 2:13:22
  I'll still get kids Nationals. Oh, you still got to bring your
• 2:13:24
  A game because to make it in any of these events from 10K down to
• 2:13:28
  the only one to put in the 110 hurdles to this just stupid this
• 2:13:31
  year with tantrum. And I mean, it's just I mean
• 2:13:34
  unbelievable. I mean in the 100 and 200 last
• 2:13:36
  year and I mean it's just that means it would be easier legit,
• 2:13:39
  you should feel a say like 14 to is going to be around the cost
• 2:13:44
  right now, right? 30s.
• 2:13:46
  So amazing. So I'm super excited to watch
• 2:13:49
  watch the Ashland Eagles and to see you and honestly to see you
• 2:13:53
  coaching because, you know, you could have and no one would have
• 2:13:57
  blamed you gotten out of coaching out of the bad
• 2:13:59
  experience, that you had, so glad you put it in the past and
• 2:14:02
  you continue to move. Lord man.
• 2:14:04
  So Logan man, thank you for being here today.
• 2:14:06
  I mean this is absolutely phenomenal.
• 2:14:08
  Great conversation about International recruiting and
• 2:14:11
  Athletics and then great conversation about just
• 2:14:14
  professional hardships and how to bounce back from them.
• 2:14:19
  And what's awesome is you're still so young.
• 2:14:22
  I know, it seems like so long ago that first head job at New
• 2:14:25
  Haven. That seems like yeah, to Life's
• 2:14:28
  ago. That was yesterday.
• 2:14:29
  My friend, you have so much in front of you.
• 2:14:31
  I'm super excited to see what the next. 10 20, 30 years is
• 2:14:35
  going to look like for you and the coaching Journey that you're
• 2:14:37
  going to continue to go on and the young people that you're
• 2:14:40
  going to continually positively impact, man.
• 2:14:43
  That is the ultimate nugget of what you do as a track coach.
• 2:14:47
  So I can't wait to see the athletes.
• 2:14:49
  That come from your your coaching that would become moms
• 2:14:52
  and dads and doctors and business owners of coaches and
• 2:14:56
  teachers. It's going to be it's
• 2:14:59
  life-changing what you do and so I'm just excited to be along and
• 2:15:02
  share the journey. With, with others out there.
• 2:15:05
  So, thank you so much for being here today.
• 2:15:07
  My man, rob, thank you. All right, man, good luck this
• 2:15:09
  week. I'll tell, you know, I'm sure as
• 2:15:10
  soon as this is published, I'll go see you at the track.
• 2:15:12
  So we'll see you see you there. All right, looking man, thanks
• 2:15:15
  for being here. Thank you for being here,
• 2:15:16
  listening this week. It is championship week as we
• 2:15:19
  get into closer to division one championships in a couple weeks
• 2:15:21
  as well. And then you have USA, Champs
• 2:15:23
  Etc and Nike val-d'or high school Nationals at Oregon, it's
• 2:15:28
  quite an amazing time frame. There is no better time than
• 2:15:30
  Championship season in track and field.
• 2:15:32
  So go out. Enjoy it.
• 2:15:33
  Go find it. Track meet near you and then
• 2:15:34
  join us. Come back here next week.
• 2:15:36
  We'll do it all over again. Here all over again here at the
• 2:15:38
  Gil connections podcast. Thanks everybody.