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Motherhood, Creativity, and the Courage to Not Know with Jennifer Hinton · Motherhood Uncut

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_03: Welcome to the Motherhood Uncut podcast, where we talk honestly about the reality of motherhood.
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_03: I'm your host, Kate Kripke.
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_03: This is a space for mothers to feel seen, heard, and understood, especially those navigating the intersection of raising young kids while also maintaining passions, purpose, and work outside of motherhood.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_03: And it's called Uncut because we do not hold back here.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_03: Through expert conversations, personal stories, practical tools, and honest reflection, we explore what it means to care for ourselves, stay connected to our kids, and remember that we can feel hard things and still be okay.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_03: I'm so glad you're here.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_03: More than 20 years ago, a surf trip to Mexico sparked an idea that would become one of the most respected women's clothing apparel brands in the country.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_03: Jen has spent her career designing clothing that helps women feel strong, comfortable, and authentically themselves while building a company rooted in sustainability, adventure, and a genuine love for the outdoors.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_03: Jen also happens to be one of my closest friends from college, and we've been a part of each other's lives for more than 30 years.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_03: I think you will hear that history in this conversation.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_03: Today's conversation explores the idea of creativity, what it really is, and what it asks of us in motherhood, in our work, and in the way we move through the world.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_03: Together we explore why so many of us lose touch with creativity as adults and why it may be one of the most important capacities we can reclaim, especially in motherhood.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_03: Jen shares why she believes creativity isn't something reserved for artists, but it's something we are all born with.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_03: We talk about the surprising relationship between creativity and psychological safety, how perfectionism and performance can quietly suffocate our imagination, and how slowing down creates the spaciousness, our minds and need to think differently.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_03: As our conversation unfolds, we realize we're actually talking about something even deeper the openness, the willingness to let go of certainty, to tolerate vulnerability, and stay curious enough to discover something new.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_03: Whether you're raising children, leading a team, building a business, or simply trying to feel more alive in your everyday life, that openness may be one of the greatest gifts you can cultivate.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_03: I adored this conversation.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_03: And I think you will too.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_03: So let's dive in.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_03: The women I work with are often deeply thoughtful, capable, ambitious mothers who care tremendously about their children and also about the work, passions, and purpose they hold outside of motherhood.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_03: But somewhere along the way, anxiety, guilt, overwhelm, and pressure begin pulling them out of the present moment and away from the experience they long to be having.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_03: The Calm Connection Accelerator is my 12-week experience designed to help mothers move from survival mode into greater calm, confidence, steadiness, and connection, both with themselves and with their children.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_03: If that resonates with you, I'd love to invite you to book a call with me.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_03: We'll talk through what's feeling hardest right now, what you most want for yourself and your family, and whether the Calm Connection Accelerator feels like the right next step for you.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_03: You can find more information and the link to book a call in the show notes.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I mean just like to you know record it.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_03: Well, you and I had such an interesting conversation in the hot tub.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_03: Sounds we were such a sexy conversation in the hot tub.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_03: We really did.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_03: Um I know, look at us.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_03: I wore it for you.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_02: No, I love it.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_03: For anyone who is watching this later, I'll point them in your direction of the carved designs.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_03: Amazing accessory.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_03: Um anyway, I have been thinking a lot about this idea of creativity and how important it is right now in life in general.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_03: And it's been coming up a lot in the work I'm doing with some, you know, my clients.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_03: So I was like, let's do it.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_03: Let's just like dive right in.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I love it.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_01: I love it.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_03: I love it.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_03: Do it.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_03: Before I do that, how are you?
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I'm good.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_03: How are you?
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_03: I'm actually good.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_03: I'm good.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_03: I've got my little birdies best back in the nest.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_03: So I'm like so happy to have everyone home.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_03: I know.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_03: It's really awesome.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_01: Very that's the best.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_01: It's gotta be the best.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_03: It's really great.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, as you know, like this stage of parenting is so bizarre when kids just start going in all their own directions.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_03: So it's it is just a total treat.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_03: I love it.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_01: Definitely feel lost a lot, but all good.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_03: Like, yeah, tell me.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_03: Well, meet me too.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_03: Me too.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_03: Um, okay, Jen.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_03: So um we'll do a more formal introduction before um I'm just we're just we're already recording.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_03: So let's just jump right in and we'll do kind of a more formal introduction before we pop before this conversation starts.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_03: But um I think I want to start with I've done, I've prepared a little bit differently for this conversation.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_03: I actually came up with like four or five questions that I think you and I might be able to answer together that have to do with creativity and why it's important.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_03: And we may not get to all of them, but there are sort of some core ideas that keep coming up for me in my work that I would love to get your take on.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_03: So I have my notes in front of me, but I'm probably gonna like, we're gonna move around a lot.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but I have like one question I want to start with with you today.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_03: Um, do you believe that creativity is something people have and others don't?
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_03: Or is it something that we're born with?
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_01: I can everyone's creative.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_03: Tell me more.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_03: What do you mean?
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_03: And maybe like, can you tell us what your definition of creative is?
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_03: Let's start with that.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_01: I think it varies, honestly.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_01: And I had a feeling you would ask me this question, so I've been thinking about it because I I I obviously love to think about this kind of stuff, but I think everyone is born of creativity.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's allowing yourself to be super open to the possibility that things aren't one way, and I think that is creative, and that means that we all have it.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_01: And I think the more open you are, like your husband, for example, he's I think he's a super receptive, creative, like collaborator with the universe and whatever, and he's just open to it because he's allowing himself and he's not scared.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_01: Potentially, I mean, that's my point of view of some of some like great artists um, but I really believe that you have to do two things.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_01: One, be wildly open to like the possibility of surprise.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_01: Cause I think if you are creativity, flows like fully, and two, you need to put your ego over to the right.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_01: Because I think that creativity increases and multiplies with collaboration, and I don't mean just with like other human beings with the universe, with whatever.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_01: I think you just have to kind of be like a I don't know, like a receiver and receptacle and interpreter and all that stuff.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_01: You just have to be really open.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_01: I just think you have to be open.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_01: And if you're not open, I think you just don't feel creative.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_01: And but I'm a creative person, also like maybe I'm just a big thinker, I don't know.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_01: But and I don't know if it's maybe my mom that was creative in a creative field, so she always allowed me to like or force me to keep my mind open.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's nature nurture.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_01: It's like I do think everyone has it though.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_01: You just have to like be open to accessing it.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, but you just said a couple of really important things.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_01: So I don't remember.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_03: You I remember because I wrote them down.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_03: First, you said you were talking about Jamie, my husband Jamie, and you said he's not scared.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_03: So in order to be open, we have to feel safe.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_03: I think that's actually worth mentioning here at the top of this conversation that fear creates rigidity.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_03: And you just said that creativity is the opposite of rigidity.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_03: It's like an openness, it's like a willingness to not know the answer.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_03: You said open to surprise.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_03: It's a willingness to lean into uncertainty and unpredictability.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_03: So I do think it's worth saying that if for some reason we feel threatened in any way, whether it's a real or perceived threat, we're much less likely to be able to access creativity.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, I I I believe that to be true.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_03: So, because the other thing that I think you just said creativity requires, which I would agree with, is vulnerability.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, right?
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_03: 100%.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_03: We need to like like create, we may all be born with the capacity for creativity, but I do think that those of us who fear not knowing think that we need to know the answers, think that we need to have everything in control, are probably less likely to be able to tap into creativity because the idea of uncertainty feels so scary.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_03: What do you think about that?
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I I agree.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_01: And I've been there.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_01: Like I feel like that's normal for a lot a lot of people.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um but when you do let go, like you can feel it in your body, and then all of a sudden things just start to to flow out.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_01: So I I think that yeah, allowing yourself to be vulnerable is a huge part of it.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's one of the hardest things to do.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_01: And I feel like I'm still working, like I still have to work on that on it on the daily because it's it's scary to say I don't know.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_01: But when you get on the other side of that, I don't know, it's like kind of epic, you know, because it becomes I don't know becomes like fun.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_01: Do you know what I mean?
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_01: It's just becomes like what could happen?
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_01: Anything, what's the worst?
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_01: I I don't know, someone gets mad, who cares?
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_01: I I don't know.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_01: Like I always I have to say sometimes I have to when I'm training myself out of that in a specific situation.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, what's the worst that's gonna happen?
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_01: They're gonna get mad, or I'm gonna mess up my words, or I what what is it that I'm holding on to once I talk myself through it?
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_01: And I feel like you kind of taught me this years and years ago.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if you remember, but you would you were like just get to the other side and you relax, like and I it's always stuck with me, and it's very much a true feeling.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_01: Like once you just let yourself do it, your whole body relaxes, and then your brain can just really access.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_01: It's like it's called getting into flow state, and a lot of artists get can get there because they're used to it, it's their habit now.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and for those of us that have to work a little bit harder at it, it's like figate to you make it, just keep telling yourself, and then one day it's like where I wear these rose color glasses.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_01: I do it for a reason.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_03: I love it.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_03: If for anyone who's listening and not watching, you do have rose covered rose colour glasses on it.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_03: I I love that.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_01: It's like for me, I'm like get in the mindset at all times so I can be just open.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_01: And when I'm open, everything becomes magical.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_01: Like yesterday, I was on a photo shoot, and I I was a little bit worried about the temperatures, and I was a little bit, and I was just like, stop gripping and let it flow.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_01: And it became this beautiful collaborative experience between all the players, the model, the photographer, the assistant.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_01: Everyone just had this influx of creativity because we just allowed, I allowed myself to say something and be wrong about it.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_01: I the the photographer was like, should we go this direction?
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_01: I think this.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_01: And I was, you know, she wasn't afraid.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_01: No, everyone just kind of let their inhibitions go.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_01: And all of a sudden we were like, wow, this is magic.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_01: Everything is working out, is because you're just letting it happen and not being afraid of not doing it right.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_01: Because there is no there in the end of the day, there's no wrong or there's no right or wrong.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_03: There really well, you're letting go.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_03: That is such a great example of letting go of the agenda, right?
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_03: There's no and nothing in the end that you're attached to, and you're talking about co-creation.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_03: You've used that word collaborative so many times, and it's clearly such an important word to you.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_03: Like it is interesting.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, the a question I want to ask you is do you think as a culture that we're losing creativity?
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_03: And I think in many ways, our culture, and I mean by culture, I mean like American US culture, is so individualistic.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_03: It's not collaborative in nature.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_03: And you keep using that word, that co-creation, that word.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_03: So, like, what's your take on that?
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_03: Do you think as a culture we're losing creativity?
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_01: I that that makes me sad if that's the case.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_01: But I have moments where I do think that that's happening, and then I have moments where I don't think that that's happening.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um it's such an integral part of how I want to exist as a human being and how I want to operate in the workforce or in my job.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_01: So I don't an alternative world is kind of like, what are you talking about?
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_01: But yes, like I do feel like I see it happening through AI, but we're also we live in a capitalistic world.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_01: So it's like it it just kind of can feel that way too.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_01: Plus, after COVID, everyone's working from home, everyone's in their silos, and you know, yes, it can feel that way, but the flip side is like we do have people who are scared of AI.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not so scared of it because I think that there are places.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_01: I was just on a phone call with this new platform that we're using, and it's gonna help integrate my entire my creativity with sales, with marketing, and we can share, we can ideate in one place.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's cool.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_01: Well, there's that word again, which is collaboration, right?
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_01: There it is again.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_02: It's bringing lots of things together.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, bringing lots of things together, and and and in the nature, in the spirit of creativity, I I have to keep my mind open to these new things that are coming.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_01: And I know it's hard because it is scary, but also if you keep your mind open, all this stuff isn't going to be as scary and hard.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_01: And it's just, I think collaboration could really be on the other side of this scary place that we might all find ourselves kind of dealing with right now or just contemplating or envisioning, and it's not, it doesn't have to be that way.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_01: And then I also think like with this idea of like keeping your mind open, like I think that we don't know enough about the how the brain works.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_01: And if can you imagine if we just kept opening and opening, like we're stronger than AI could ever be?
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_01: Like just let your it's I I don't know how to, I don't know if I'm even making any sense, but it's just like I keep being like, just keep your mind open, open, and more will come.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_01: More creativity and more more creativity will continue to come.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_01: And no robot and no computer and no AI can like match that.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_03: And I think I'm struck by something though, right?
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_03: Because I I can like I'm watching you say this and I can like feel it in my body.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_03: And I think allowing our mind to open and open actually really requires a slowing down, right?
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_03: And modern life, constant stimulation, constant productivity, optimization, like performance.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_03: There's very little quiet, right?
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_03: And I think part of what you're saying is that creativity requires spaciousness.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_03: And our culture rewards busyness.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_03: It does not reward space.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my god, it rewards busyness.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_01: People are scared to not be busy.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_01: But you have to be like, who cares?
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I didn't I read a book all day on Saturday, and then I like laid on my bed because I was just like tired.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, that's awesome.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_01: But also, am I should I be like, oh, I did something too, and like whatever.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_01: And I had to fight that urge, and then I was like, no, I I read a book and I like laid on my bed.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_01: It's really comfortable.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_01: And I had the space because I had a photo shoot coming in and I wanted to think about it and pontificate and just whatever.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that was the key.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_01: It's like quieting down, giving yourself space before you walk into a for me, which for me this week was hugely like a huge creative pull in a week where I was going to be giving all my energy.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_01: And so I did have to slow down this weekend.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_01: I almost didn't realize I did pay it's like part of my process.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_01: Like I didn't, I was kind of like, I don't want to do anything because I'm tired and I need my brain to be focused for this week.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_01: And I do that typically.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_01: I slow myself down, I read a lot of books.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like you, like it's like I I know I have to quiet everything, and then I can walk into the week and be like, okay, here we go.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_03: But even that is creative, right?
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_03: Like I really you're describing like a creative process, right?
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_03: You're creating you're you're like your intuitive sense, knowing you have this big photo shoot coming up, knowing that your mind, you're you are, you will be challenging your mind, right?
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_03: You'll need to be open to new ideas and less rigid and ready to like quote unquote go with the flow, right?
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_03: You're sort of like collaborating.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_03: And and so you're like the intuitive sense, you you this wasn't like a strategic move for you to read your book.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_03: You just knew you just needed it, and you followed that intuitive sense, which is creativity.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, right.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, 100%.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_01: And and everyone has that ability.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_01: Everyone.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_01: Because I feel like like back when you in the beginning you were like, how do you define creativity?
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_01: And I think for every different type, like Ther and I are not the same creative in the same way.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_01: But she, you know, in business, she has the ability to step outside of a situation, look at it from a different angle, and be like, let's solve it this way.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_01: And that is creative.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_01: Just the allowing yourself to be like, it doesn't have to be this way, it can be this way, let's try it this way.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_01: And this way might not work.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_01: We might fall flat on our face, we might, whatever.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's um important because she's a business mind, and I'm a full, like crew, you know, creative mind.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_03: I love how you just said she just uses her creativity in a different way.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_03: Cause I do think there's sort of a stereotype of what is creativity?
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_03: What does a creative person look like?
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_03: How does she move through the world?
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_03: And but I would say that it's interesting because I think you and Ther both have that innate ability to know what you need and to do it without it being part of some rigid structure of doing, right?
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_03: Like she's being creative, but she also can sort of follow her like intuitive sense of like, what do I need to be doing right now to get ready for that thing?
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_03: For you, it might be reading a book.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_03: For her, it might be something entirely different, but you're both working with your creative mind so that you can be more fluid and flexible and collaborative when you need to be.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_03: Would you agree with that?
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, 100%.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_01: I absolutely would agree with that.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_01: it's it's funny like in today's world like people will be like oh she's the head of creative for curve and she's like are you are you a great drawer?
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like no it's not a drawing that's not that that's not a create like that's not always how creativity like falls out of people like I can't draw a stick figure like no no no no you know like my creativity comes in an in a different way um but yeah it's just funny how the world kind of puts a lens on it for you and you have to kind of understand that like it took me a long time to understand that it's okay I'm not I I can't draw like can't draw at all like also I haven't yeah that that doesn't like I really put my head down and did it like I really you don't care enough.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_01: I don't that's just not where it like outpoured you know from me.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_03: So so I want to ask another question because this is really interesting.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_03: I hear a lot uh in my work where people and again we're talking about like women who are mothers often mothers of young kids a lot of us I'm curious to know what your experience was because I'll speak for myself I hated playing with my children when they were young like the idea of playing dolls just made me want to regurgitate.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_03: Like I could not stand it.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_03: And what I've heard from a lot of women who I work with is that play feels really hard.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_03: And I have something I take everyone through and it's called the non-pharmaceutical prescription for mental health and play is on that prescription.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_03: And the question I'm curious to know your answer to is what does creativity actually do for us?
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_03: Because we know that creative expression improves emotional regulation and psychological flexibility and resilience and overall well-being like we have the research and data that supports that.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_03: But I'm curious to know how you might answer that question from your perspective what does creativity do for us as humans?
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_03: What does it do for you?
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_03: How does being creative as a creative human, how does that support you in your life?
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_01: I mean it's like the air I breathe, you know um being creative for me and is is literally like everything.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_01: So and that can look I think it can look different on a day-to-day basis but just kind of sinking your mind or your hands or your body into something that is not kind of of today's world news Instagram whatever Excel sheets that kind of stuff I think that it's like I need it for my soul essentially and I think I too struggled playing with my kids at like I did it and I forced myself a lot of times to like do it.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_01: The only thing I did like was building Legos could and I would follow the rules me too I would just be like let's build a whatever because I was like no one's gonna put baby in a corner I'm not building the ship it I also loved Legos and you're right I wasn't following the instructions to make the Legos either yeah I think though I think it's scary though to like play dolls or whatever the thing was that we didn't want to play with our kids because I think our culture like kind of poo-poos like that like soft playfulness the baby talk the all that and it's it's you have to get comfortable with yourself to like be like Marcy and Dana are at a you know they're you take two barbies and you're whatever like I like oh but I did that as a kid because I was I was uninhibited I didn't care what anyone thought yeah and we lose that as we get older and I see it in I see it in my kids too.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_03: I always like I little things like when I see Boone he's 13 I see him watching cartoons I'm like yes because it still means he's seeing the world through a a a youthful lens right and I think the youthfulness is great because you're not you're less afraid and then as we get older we get into this like performative living and and I mean that's the word I think that's why I didn't like playing dolls because I had to perform I was performing something and it's uncomfortable and it's it's uncomfortable and it's weird and it's vulnerable and it's like you sound weird and then quite frankly half the time my doll said the wrong thing according to my daughter and she corrected me.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_03: So it was a constant like thing it was not fun.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_01: It was not fun not fun.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah so I think that like yeah I think that whatever the creativity means to somebody if you're not doing it every day I I don't know how people get through like I don't and I'm lucky because my work my work is creative but even just sitting in a meeting where I'm talking with my design team about like a detail or whatever I mean that's that's enough for me that's like gets me excited because I see them get excited and and so that that's the kind of little thing and I think you also have to remember that it's the creativity isn't a huge gesture.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_01: It can be just this one 10 minute two minute moment whatever it is like it doesn't need to be this sweeping piece of artwork or whatever.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_01: It can be something very small.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes like I like I'll just see like a weird like someone dressed really weird and funky and I'm like yeah that's awesome.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_01: You know it's like yes they're in it they feel it or someone in their car like totally dancing at the light like those little those are awesome moments and those are those like surprise like keeping like instead of being like I'd never do that.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_01: It's like yeah so you're talk you're talking about I think the creativity comp that comes when we don't care what people think of us which is what kids have until they hit a certain age right yeah so uh one of the questions I have here which I think we've already answered but it it's an interesting question because I think a lot of our listeners would call themselves perfectionists does perfectionism suffocate creativity in your mind how what's the relationship to you for you between perfectionism and creativity um I'm not a perfectionist in I will okay I am I have yes okay I can't say that because like I do things and I'm like um I think it's helped keep the wheels on the bus for me perfectionism but and allowed me to be make space for the creativity I guess I don't know if that makes any sense but I I I just said I'm not a perfectionist because I've worked on I've it's taken me 20 years to like get to this place where I'm like I can walk into a photo shoot and be like kumbaya let's whatever flows flows that is not the case that was not the case 15 years ago I was like you're not type you're not type A.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_03: I think I was I actually I don't want to I kind of like it my you and I think it's worth saying that you and I both grew up in a culture yes that supports perfectionist type A thinking we both grew up in a culture where things are so there's a certain way of doing things.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_03: And in many ways Jen I actually what I hear you saying is that you have rebelled against that or resisted that in many ways, which I know to be true about you in general.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_03: I mean you and I have had enough conversations over the decades of friendship to know that you're the last person who's going to be like okay you want me to be like that I'll go be like that.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah right but we do grow up in that culture right but I do think it was helpful in putting into place a little bit of structure so I could then allow myself to be creative.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_01: So I feel very lucky that I grew up with that structure and a mom who's an absolute still to this day perfectionist.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm always like oh mom you know yes and but I also like am very grateful for that of course perfectionism to define because I don't think without that I'm not sure I would have had the confidence to just be interesting whatever like I to try things I I was very lucky that way and my mom had enough creativity to be like okay go go girl you know well well the structure created the safety for you you just already said creativity requires safety and the structure made it safe for you to then let go in these other places 100% yeah and it's yeah I I think that's a huge component of how I've been able to be the way I am now is just that whole perfectionist upbringing that I don't identify with but I needed to get me here.
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_03: Wow that's so interesting.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_03: And that's not everyone has that by the way like not everyone has that and I right or the structure and rigidity is so scary right that the idea like there can be different forms of structure and rigidity.
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_03: And I think what I hear you saying is it's such a both and right I mean to me that's the definition of health and wellbeing is when we can move fluidly fluid fluidly between things that we can both have structure and openness or uncertainty or in our words creativity.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_03: Like we can move through that given what the moment requires.
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_03: 100% 100% yeah so I want to I want to talk about motherhood for a minute because this is the motherhood uncut podcast.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_03: And I want to just kind of recognize with you that motherhood changes our brain like we know that we have biological physiological research that shows that literally motherhood changes the way our brains look under brain scans.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_03: And we won't take time to go into the neuroscience of that but it's worth just saying like this is a major shift for us when we become mothers.
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_03: What motherhood increases for so many people is vigilance and responsibility and like major mental load right so it changes like the the the the the support caregiving can crowd out all this spatialness spaciousness that creativity needs but I want to kind of brainstorm with you a little bit right because motherhood I think it's unfair for us to suggest that motherhood eliminates creativity right it changes where it's needed because back to your point about structure create safety like if we have no most of the women I know if there is no routine and no structure in early motherhood their fight and flight response is so high.
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_03: They feel so much anxiety.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_03: So we need the structure but we also know that we as moms we need to be able to improvise and adapt and reimagine things and kind of move into this creative place.
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_03: So I guess I'm just curious to know if you were to describe your thoughts about this how first question is is motherhood a creative act second question might be how has motherhood changed your sense of creativity okay so I think motherhood is creative.
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_01: Can you say more why what what comes up for you I mean it just forces you to look at the world completely differently and I love that saying when people say um through a child's eyes you know it's like like the first time like that's I love that and I loved that process of being a mom because I had forgotten some of the little things that like made me happy which is for me inherently creative because right there you're allowing yourself to look at the world differently and so yes I think motherhood's creative I think it just gets overwhelmingly like um hard because you think you're always doing the bad job or you're messing up or whatever.
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_03: And that that takes over I think well it's it's a little bit of a I don't know if contradiction is the right word, but it's interesting, right?
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_03: There is limitless uncertainty in motherhood.
• 35:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_03: So you and I could say there's limitless opportunity to be creative because of the uncertainty.
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_03: At the same time most of the women that I work with are terrified of uncertainty.
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_03: The idea of not knowing the answer the idea of of not knowing what's coming next is so such a threat to their nervous system.
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_03: 100% I mean that's a scary place to to to be and yeah and you know what most of those women will say to me is I am not having fun.
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_03: I am not feeling joy.
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah so but they want to have fun they want to feel joy.
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_03: So it's a there's something funny that happens here for most of us right where we have this opportunity for creativity because there's all this uncertainty but even the the opportunity creates a threat response inside our nervous system.
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_01: 100% I mean I feel like I still have those I have those moments still um today just because like it's yes those and I think that I think what happens is is that it because it's so like it's so scary it just overwhelms you that you can't let go.
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_01: And so then that ability to access your creative side or a creative point of view or a creative experience becomes so like non existent inaccessible and rigid right because when we're scared we will become rigid and rigid is the opposite of creativity.
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah yeah and how do it's kind of a clusterfuck actually it is a clusterfuck because I just feel like even young moms and old moms I I feel like you it you it ebbs and flows too like now I have a son about to drive like I have found myself really white knuckling everything because I'm like why am I gripping so hard holy crap like things aren't flowing out the way I want and I'm a little unhappy and it's because I don't know there's so much uncertainty and it's scary.
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_01: And you can't control it.
• 37:52
  SPEAKER_01: You're not the one driving the yeah it's hard to say that again it's just hard to walk your brain back from telling yourself creating a narrative around your uncertainty I don't know I mean I I think that I people that's the only way I know how to describe that where you're like I'm so nervous this freaking mean he's gonna get in a car is going to die like blah and that takes over and I think it takes over it could be a full body takeover and then you're white knuckling your life and there's no room for anything else which is a bummer.
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah actually how do you pull back from that how do you well let and that goes back to you gotta put your rose glasses on and you gotta start talking yourself wait I want to talk about that for a moment because I actually think that you are describing the way many many many women feel in motherhood where they're so far into that realization of lack of control and uncertainty and unpredictability and the very universal fear-based response of trying to control trying to feel better and less free of flow by trying to get more control right once you're in that that becomes your entire uh it's the water you're swimming in right it's so hard to even see anything outside of it.
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_03: I think it's probably fair to say and our listeners could ask themselves do you want more play in your life?
• 39:28
  SPEAKER_03: Do you want more creativity?
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_03: Do you want more joy?
• 39:31
  SPEAKER_03: My guess is most people would say yes.
• 39:33
  SPEAKER_03: But then the question you just but it's hard you're in it it's hard.
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_03: So let's actually slow down for a moment the conversation like really what advice can you offer people who are listening if they're if they're like I am not creative anymore I've lost that part of myself I'm stressed out all the time if they're seeing themselves in this version that we just painted which is so easy to get into because whether your kid is a teenager and about to drive or like a baby and you're trying to get them to sleep, right?
• 40:03
  SPEAKER_03: There can be a million times that this happens how would you how would you respond to them?
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_03: What would you say to them?
• 40:11
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my God I I know your experience you don't have to be my experience what work for me yeah um is I I think I'm trying to remember because I'm I remember those years and actually I don't remember them fully because I think I was like blackout like oh this is so hard and like trying to get my babies to sleep and all that stuff and it is so hard and that's all you're concerned about.
• 40:38
  SPEAKER_01: But I do think I talked it was a lot of self-talk like I talked to myself in the car I write in my journal and I think and I would my self-talk was like this is what do you want how do you want to feel where we like that kind of stuff like that that saying fake it till you make it like one day you believe it and you do it.
• 41:07
  SPEAKER_01: Do you know what I mean?
• 41:08
  SPEAKER_01: I like I feel like for me I mean obviously obviously I also had a therapist and you know like all the things but I I think it also boiled down to like practice what you're think like think what you want practice it and just fake it till you make it in one day you're like oh oh I I was able to go and make some jewelry today and that felt really good and then it becomes more and I don't like that is how I did it also a really great friend network and yes you do we all do thank goodness network and a supportive partner and um you know and there's lots of ands but I think at the end of the day and I do it all the time still to this day I like talk about how I want to feel at the the next milestone that I've set or that I have loosely set because I don't really I don't I'm not like oh in two weeks I'm here it's like how do I want to feel in two weeks how am I how do I want to feel and I want to feel like this not like how I'm feeling today.
• 42:14
  SPEAKER_01: So it's the the self-talk I think is really powerful because you believe your thoughts and I've always been a self-talker like since day since day one.
• 42:26
  SPEAKER_01: Like I remember being in Boulder Colorado no job and I would I was like I'm gonna own my own company one day and I just kept saying it saying it to myself and it happened.
• 42:39
  SPEAKER_01: So it's like I you just and you have to believe in yourself too you just have to believe and also it doesn't always work out the way you want it to so it's like if you can that goes back to like just staying open and so if you can allow yourself those little moments and keep talking to yourself it does expand and it does open.
• 42:58
  SPEAKER_01: But you do have to hold on because it's the long game it's always the long game don't forget it's always the long game it's never the short game.
• 43:06
  SPEAKER_01: So it's like think long term don't think don't think like I have to be here by this time I have to be whatever it's like just think long term and maybe let let go of the reins let go of the loot the the calendar part of it I guess I don't that's how I just like I did it.
• 43:27
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah yeah I mean I ironically you just circled back to I think everything we said here which also the research backs up right you said number one you you you knew Jen that you needed to not believe every thought you had yeah that you needed to pay attention to your thinking and adjust your thinking to fit the way you wanted to feel so that's number two is that I heard that you were like using the feeling as the lighthouse not Not the doing.
• 44:01
  SPEAKER_03: You weren't saying, what do I want to do by next Thursday?
• 44:04
  SPEAKER_03: You were saying, how do I want to feel by the end of next Thursday?
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_03: It's such a different uh place to lead from.
• 44:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 44:13
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 44:13
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 44:14
  SPEAKER_03: And then you also said, and I didn't do it alone.
• 44:17
  SPEAKER_03: You're like, I had a therapist, I have a partner, and I have friends.
• 44:20
  SPEAKER_03: And I do think, again, you it's that's a collaborative effort.
• 44:23
  SPEAKER_03: That's your life.
• 44:24
  SPEAKER_03: Your life is a creative act.
• 44:26
  SPEAKER_03: You you are, I mean, I think that's one.
• 44:30
  SPEAKER_03: It's like one of the things I walked out of that hot tub when we were having this first conversation with.
• 44:35
  SPEAKER_03: It's like, oh, Jen Hinton, your life is a creative act.
• 44:40
  SPEAKER_03: It's not just that your job is creative, it's not just that your wardrobe is creative.
• 44:45
  SPEAKER_03: It's that like your whole life follows the recipe of creativity.
• 44:53
  SPEAKER_03: It's fucking awesome.
• 44:56
  SPEAKER_01: That's beautiful.
• 44:56
  SPEAKER_01: That's like gonna make me cry.
• 44:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and everyone's is too.
• 45:02
  SPEAKER_03: If they if they allow it to be because I think what we said earlier is that creativity can be scary because it requires vulnerability, it requires uncertainty.
• 45:14
  SPEAKER_03: These things that a lot of women, a lot of us will kind of work against, will work against the uncertainty, we'll work against the vulnerability.
• 45:22
  SPEAKER_03: And really to access creativity, we have to lean into it, all of it.
• 45:26
  SPEAKER_03: We can't resist it.
• 45:27
  SPEAKER_03: We have to use it to be creative.
• 45:30
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 45:31
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 45:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 45:32
  SPEAKER_01: And then everything just becomes like looser and easier.
• 45:36
  SPEAKER_01: It's just, yeah.
• 45:37
  SPEAKER_01: When you start what stop white-neckling it, you you release and it's like such a better feeling.
• 45:45
  SPEAKER_01: I think once you experience that the first time, then you're you're like, oh, that's right.
• 45:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 45:52
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, one final question.
• 45:55
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 45:56
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 45:57
  SPEAKER_03: Let me pull it up because it feels really important.
• 46:01
  SPEAKER_03: What do you think the world loses every time one person stops believing that they're creative?
• 46:13
  SPEAKER_03: Every time one woman, one mother stops believing that they're created, what does the world lose?
• 46:22
  SPEAKER_01: That energy.
• 46:24
  SPEAKER_01: Like, can you imagine if we all felt boundless?
• 46:27
  SPEAKER_01: That energy would just be undeniable.
• 46:32
  SPEAKER_01: It's like when we're all together with our group of friends, our energy is so our high, our vibrations up here.
• 46:38
  SPEAKER_01: Can you imagine if we all were up?
• 46:40
  SPEAKER_01: I think, I think maybe the patriarchy wants to keep us scared.
• 46:45
  SPEAKER_01: That's another podcast episode.
• 46:49
  SPEAKER_01: But I just think about how you are with women that you work with or women that you're best friends with, and you're on a girls week, and that vibration is always here.
• 46:59
  SPEAKER_01: Can you imagine what that's like if we were always not all, I mean, because obviously that's a lot of energy, but like if we operated up at that vibration, we allowed ourselves to go there more.
• 47:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 47:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 47:11
  SPEAKER_01: Like it would just be insane and and magical and wonderful.
• 47:19
  SPEAKER_01: And I I I firmly believe we could probably solve all the problems.
• 47:24
  SPEAKER_01: I think we probably could too.
• 47:25
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I mean, but but but I just that that energy is what we we start missing, and and I think that's a tragedy because women are amazing.
• 47:39
  SPEAKER_03: Women are amazing.
• 47:40
  SPEAKER_03: I often am talking about how when we live, when we continue to live from a place of fear, which again, that a lot of valid reason to feel fearful right now.
• 47:54
  SPEAKER_03: And there are a lot of people out there who are very stressed and very anxious.
• 48:00
  SPEAKER_03: And it all makes sense for so many reasons.
• 48:03
  SPEAKER_03: But if we continue to live in that constrained tight place, I'm often thinking about like how many amazing ideas are locked inside those people, those women.
• 48:17
  SPEAKER_03: Like many of our listeners might be sitting there, like, even if to be to your point, it doesn't have to be like the giant painting idea.
• 48:24
  SPEAKER_03: It could just be a little thing, but an amazing idea that we hold, we we keep the world from experiencing when we are too scared to be vulnerable or uncertain.
• 48:36
  SPEAKER_03: And I I just think to your point, I think we all have so much to offer, and we need, we need more women to get out there and be a little more courageous about sharing an idea, even if someone might think it's silly.
• 48:53
  SPEAKER_01: So 100%, Kate.
• 48:56
  SPEAKER_01: I I agree, I couldn't agree with you more.
• 48:59
  SPEAKER_01: Is let's I mean, it's why I hire mostly women, and I think I Sarah and I've always said this women that stay at home with their kids and want to come back slowly to the workforce.
• 49:14
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like they are the most beautiful elementary resource because it helping them give them life, but then they can also fulfill their, you know, what they want to do as a mom.
• 49:29
  SPEAKER_01: And I love that balance because I think that's where I get some of my strongest employees and like women that work with me and their ideas, and it you know, they want to come back and be at work long.
• 49:46
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's just it's it's it's awesome.
• 49:48
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, I 100% agree with you.
• 49:51
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, there's actually a really fascinating report that came out recently that talked about how women who were come back to the workforce or who continue to work, either way, when they are at work, if they allow themselves to tap into the way of being in motherhood that is required, which I think we're also talking about is we have to be creative in order to get through motherhood.
• 50:15
  SPEAKER_03: We have to tap into these parts of ourselves that may have been dormant for a long time.
• 50:20
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 50:21
  SPEAKER_03: When we come into the workforce, we bring all that with us.
• 50:25
  SPEAKER_03: Like there's research out there that's basically saying, you know, it's fine to not have children, by the way, if you don't want to have children.
• 50:32
  SPEAKER_03: But if you do have children, you get to bring all of those resources you have to tap into back to work, which serves the organizations that hire you, right?
• 50:42
  SPEAKER_03: Which is what you're saying right now.
• 50:44
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, because you you access those different ways of thinking.
• 50:47
  SPEAKER_03: You have just a different way of thinking.
• 50:50
  SPEAKER_03: It's inevitable.
• 50:51
  SPEAKER_03: Beautiful.
• 50:52
  SPEAKER_03: I love it.
• 50:53
  SPEAKER_03: Jen, anything about creativity that I didn't ask you about today that you want to share?
• 51:01
  SPEAKER_01: No, I feel like we I feel like we covered it.
• 51:03
  SPEAKER_01: I I'm um, I mean, I I would say there's one other thing that I have it that I do that has really helped me get out of my head in moments where I want to get back to is like always if I have a creative thought or I have a unique thought that I want to be able to share or act on or utilize, I I voice memo it or I write it down and I find that to be really useful because I can go back and be like, oh yeah, that was a great idea.
• 51:39
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm I can't because I forget because I'm in my freak outness of whatever I'm freaking out about at the moment with my kids or whatever, and nervous or and I'm like, oh, and that releases my grip sometimes when I go back and read it.
• 51:55
  SPEAKER_03: And I I do the same thing.
• 51:59
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and I love it.
• 52:00
  SPEAKER_03: And I actually speaking of AI, I actually it's a place that I use um Claude and ChatGPT is I have I store my ideas someplace because quite frankly, if I just store them in my notes, I lose it.
• 52:12
  SPEAKER_03: But I but I do think there's something to be said for getting it out, even if no one ever sees it, at least in the short game, just getting it out.
• 52:21
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, I love that.
• 52:22
  SPEAKER_01: And it makes you feel it really it's got to release endorphins because I do always feel like, and then going back to read it, I'm like, oh yeah.
• 52:29
  SPEAKER_01: And that gets me excited, and that's also fun, you know.
• 52:33
  SPEAKER_01: So um I love that little habit that is new for me, actually.
• 52:38
  SPEAKER_01: Like I used to be like, where'd that thought go?
• 52:41
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, too, you know, I can't remember it.
• 52:44
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I mean, you started it's kind of a perfect suggestion if we to give our listeners because you started it by saying that creativity is a it's a collaborative act with the universe, right?
• 52:54
  SPEAKER_03: It's a it we sort of we have to be at work, we have to be working with something that we can't explain.
• 52:59
  SPEAKER_03: And sometimes call it the universe or something else, a creative idea just like drops in.
• 53:05
  SPEAKER_03: Totally.
• 53:05
  SPEAKER_03: Gotta put it somewhere.
• 53:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 53:08
  SPEAKER_01: It's totally the universe.
• 53:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 53:11
  SPEAKER_01: I I love it.
• 53:12
  SPEAKER_01: I love it.
• 53:12
  SPEAKER_01: Co-collaboration with the universe.
• 53:14
  SPEAKER_01: I love it.
• 53:15
  SPEAKER_01: It's my favorite thing.
• 53:16
  SPEAKER_03: Jen, if people want to find you or see more of you or explore your incredible creative design work at Carved Designs, where can they find you?
• 53:28
  SPEAKER_01: I'm mostly on Instagram, Jenny Baker Hanson.
• 53:32
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm also on the Carve Instagram.
• 53:36
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe too much.
• 53:38
  SPEAKER_03: Um I love watching those, I have to say.
• 53:40
  SPEAKER_03: They make me so happy.
• 53:42
  SPEAKER_03: Every time I see one of those, they make me so happy.
• 53:46
  SPEAKER_01: They stress me out a little bit, but also most of the time I'm like, whatever.
• 53:51
  SPEAKER_01: It's like whatever.
• 53:52
  SPEAKER_01: I've a like a sometimes.
• 53:54
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like sweaty lip or cimbletoe or whatever.
• 53:56
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, oh my God.
• 53:57
  SPEAKER_01: And then I'm like, who cares?
• 53:59
  SPEAKER_01: Like I that's creativity work.
• 54:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 54:02
  SPEAKER_01: So that's where I am mostly.
• 54:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then obviously carbdesigns.com.
• 54:09
  SPEAKER_01: We just launched a new line, so it's really exciting.
• 54:12
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I'm gonna go check it out.
• 54:14
  SPEAKER_03: And I have said to you, I don't know who is in charge of your actual design and your your cataloging, but you guys really nail it in every single catalog.
• 54:25
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, they're great.
• 54:27
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, so inclusive and so playful, and I just really you guys just do such a great job.
• 54:33
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 54:34
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you, thank you.
• 54:36
  SPEAKER_01: Well, Kate, talking about creative life, uh, you have also made a beautiful creative life, and I love it.
• 54:43
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 54:44
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 54:46
  SPEAKER_03: Um I appreciate that.
• 54:47
  SPEAKER_03: I think I have um learned to be more creative as I have entered my 50s because we don't give a shit quite the same much as we do.
• 54:56
  SPEAKER_01: And that's part of it too.
• 54:57
  SPEAKER_01: Like getting into your 50s, you release a lot too, which is so fucking great.
• 55:02
  SPEAKER_03: It's pretty great to be in our 50s, isn't it?
• 55:05
  SPEAKER_03: So great.
• 55:05
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, man.
• 55:07
  SPEAKER_03: Love it.
• 55:08
  SPEAKER_03: Um, all right, Jen, I love you so much.
• 55:10
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you for taking this time.
• 55:12
  SPEAKER_03: I really appreciate it.
• 55:12
  SPEAKER_03: Sorry about the glitches and the no apologies.
• 55:16
  SPEAKER_01: We rolled with it.
• 55:18
  SPEAKER_01: We did.
• 55:18
  SPEAKER_01: I'll talk to you later.
• 55:19
  SPEAKER_01: It's so great to see your face.
• 55:21
  SPEAKER_01: Bye.
• 55:21
  SPEAKER_01: Love you too.
• 55:22
  SPEAKER_03: Bye.
• 55:32
  SPEAKER_03: All right, listeners.
• 55:33
  SPEAKER_03: If you found this episode helpful in any way, or if there's someone in your life who you think might benefit from hearing it, I would be so grateful if you take just a moment to subscribe, rate, review, or share this episode with a friend.
• 55:47
  SPEAKER_03: Of course, it does feel good to know that the podcast is resonating with you, but honestly, the bigger reason I ask is because the more subscriptions and the ratings and reviews the podcast receives, the more accessible it becomes to mothers who may really need this kind of support and conversation.
• 56:03
  SPEAKER_03: And as we all know, motherhood was never meant to be done alone, but it really does take a village to raise a mom too.
• 56:10
  SPEAKER_03: So thank you for helping us grow this community one conversation at a time.