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#HURDLEMOMENT: An Expert On How to Maintain Weight Loss · Hurdle with Emily Abbate

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Speaker 1: Whether you're on the weight loss maintenance side or just
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Speaker 1: beginning to approach this by practicing self compassion. And what
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Speaker 1: I mean by that is to believe, at this moment,
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Speaker 1: independent of what you weigh or what you're run away
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Speaker 1: forget all, you have value as you are right this millisecond.
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Speaker 1: What that does is it turns the journey and the
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Speaker 1: way you think about it upside down, so we have
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Speaker 1: what we're thinking about ourselves, I'm fundamentally worth taking care
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Speaker 1: of that instead of I can't eat this, I can
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Speaker 1: only eat that turns into one of the ways that
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Speaker 1: I want to treat my body with reverence and respect.
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Speaker 2: Hey guys, Emily Abadi here coming to you live from
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Speaker 2: the AG Studio. You are listening to Hurdle a while
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Speaker 2: this Focus podcast reconnect with everyone from your favorite athletes
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Speaker 2: to top experts and industry CEOs, their highest ties, toughest moments,
1:02
Speaker 2: and everything in between.
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Speaker 3: We all go through hurdles in life, and.
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Speaker 2: My goal through these discussions is to empower you to
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Speaker 2: better navigate yours and move with intention so that you
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Speaker 2: can stride towards your own big potential and of course
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Speaker 2: have some fun along the way.
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Speaker 3: For this week's installment of Hurdle Moment.
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Speaker 2: I am so elated to bring you my conversation with
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Speaker 2: doctor Gary Foster. He's the chief science officer over at
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Speaker 2: WW as well as a psychologist, obesity researcher, and behavior
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Speaker 2: change expert, and what we are getting into is talking
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Speaker 2: all about best practice, tips, tricks and tools for weight
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Speaker 2: loss maintenance. Of course, you're miss if I didn't lead
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Speaker 2: off this conversation by making sure that it is one
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Speaker 2: hundred percent clear. I am not saying in any way,
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Speaker 2: shape or form that anyone listening to this episode needs
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Speaker 2: to lose weight. I simply know from my interactions with
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Speaker 2: the Hurdle community, based on my story and what I
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Speaker 2: have been through a sizeable weight loss in college, that
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Speaker 2: a lot of individuals really seek out these tips and
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Speaker 2: the strategies to upkeep the hard work and effort that
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Speaker 2: they have put into their bodies their journey. With that said,
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Speaker 2: I think it is an interesting space that we're in
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Speaker 2: today with the body positivity movement, the body and neutrality movement.
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Speaker 3: Body acceptance. A lot of people have a lot.
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Speaker 2: Of different opinions on how we should be talking about
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Speaker 2: weight loss. If it's a good thing, if it's a
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Speaker 2: bad thing. I'm going to leave that opinion completely up
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Speaker 2: to you. All I'm here to do is arm you with.
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Speaker 3: The tips, tricks and tools.
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Speaker 2: As I said, if weight loss maintenance is something that
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Speaker 2: you are interested.
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Speaker 3: In in today's conversation, I mean it's not just.
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Speaker 2: For people that are really looking to maintain a weight loss.
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Speaker 2: I would say there's a lot of really helpful takeaways
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Speaker 2: from doctor Foster that are applicable to just a healthier
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Speaker 2: way of life.
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Speaker 3: This man is a wealth of knowledge.
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Speaker 2: He gives us strategies for everything from keeping a positive
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Speaker 2: mindset to journaling to overall mindfulness and opening up about
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Speaker 2: your journey with friends or perhaps even a therapist. There's
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Speaker 2: so much, so much, so much goodness in here, and
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Speaker 2: I'm happy it's now living on the feed. Make sure
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Speaker 2: you're following along with Hurdle over on social It's at
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Speaker 2: Hurdle Podcast. I am over at Emily a Body and
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Speaker 2: we still have a few spots in tonight's goal setting
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Speaker 2: workshop as well as a few spots and next week's
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Speaker 2: goal Setting workshop.
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Speaker 3: I would love to have you join us.
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Speaker 2: Use the code grateful at the link in the show
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Speaker 2: notes to get ten percent off and snag your spot today,
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Speaker 2: and with that, let's get to hurdling.
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Speaker 3: Today.
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Speaker 2: I'm sitting down with doctor Gary Foster. He's the chief
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Speaker 2: of Science Officer at WW. He's also an adjunct professor
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Speaker 2: at U Penn. How are you doing.
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Speaker 1: Today, I'm doing great, pleasure be with you.
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Speaker 2: I'm so excited to have you with me today to
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Speaker 2: talk about weight loss maintenance. Now, before we dive right
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Speaker 2: into helpful tricks, tips, all that kind of good stuff,
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Speaker 2: I'd love to learn a little bit more about your
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Speaker 2: background so that the hurdlers know exactly who they're dealing
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Speaker 2: with here.
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Speaker 3: So give me some information.
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Speaker 2: I know you said you've been with WW before we
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Speaker 2: hopped into this recording for eight years now, so talk
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Speaker 2: to me about how you got into this line of work.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, it was actually right after I graduated college. I
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Speaker 1: knew I wanted to be a psychologist, at least that's
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Speaker 1: what I thought, and I got some good advice from
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Speaker 1: an undergraduate mentor who said, if you want to be
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Speaker 1: a psychologist, go work with psychologists first. And I went
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Speaker 1: to school in Pittsburgh, came back home to Philadelphia and
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Speaker 1: got a job quite by accident at the University of
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Speaker 1: Penn and it turned out with three luminaries in the field,
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Speaker 1: Kelly Brown, l Mickey Stunkert and Tom Watton, who really
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Speaker 1: from then to now, there are two things that really
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Speaker 1: pressed me about the field. One is how nasty and
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Speaker 1: unkind and unhelpful weight based stigma is. And so those
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Speaker 1: three mentors open my eyes to that my own experiences
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Speaker 1: with people struggling with their weight. So that's the thing
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Speaker 1: that continues to drive me to today and the work
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Speaker 1: that we do at WW around research around weight stigma
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Speaker 1: and lots of other things that we can get into
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Speaker 1: if you're interested. The other piece is that science based
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Speaker 1: approaches can make a difference, and it's a category that
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Speaker 1: unfortunately is characterized by a lot of false promises, quick fixes,
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Speaker 1: fad diets, and there is a lot of science that
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Speaker 1: can help people both in the short and the long term.
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Speaker 1: So those two things I learned some thirty years ago
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Speaker 1: are still the things that drive me today.
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Speaker 2: And I think it would be also really helpful as
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Speaker 2: we kind of jump into this conversation aside from knowing
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Speaker 2: your background, now, maybe talk a little bit about some
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Speaker 2: statistics if you will, for us have a better understanding
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Speaker 2: of what's going on at least here in the US.
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Speaker 2: I know that statistic I found from twenty nineteen from
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Speaker 2: market research dot com the weight loss market reached a
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Speaker 2: record worth of seventy eight billion dollars. And I also
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Speaker 2: know that on the total opposite side, nothing to do
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Speaker 2: with money, losing five to ten percent of your total
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Speaker 2: body weight can do a whole lot of benefit for
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Speaker 2: your body, ranging from improving your blood pressure, cholesterol, and
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Speaker 2: your blood sugar levels. Do you have any other insight
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Speaker 2: into some of the statistics that we should know about
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Speaker 2: what's going on with our population as we see it today.
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Speaker 1: Yeah. I think one orienting statistic is that nearly upwards
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Speaker 1: of seventy percent of the population has overweight or obesity,
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Speaker 1: and the number for obesity and overweight has been increasing. Partly,
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Speaker 1: it's just a secular trend that's been happening over the
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Speaker 1: last thirty years, particularly in adults, but now also in children.
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Speaker 1: And the other thing is that COVID has exastated the
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Speaker 1: problem for reasons that are predictable. Right, you get out
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Speaker 1: of routines, it's tough to take care of yourself. You
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Speaker 1: have the added stress. So the combination of stress and
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Speaker 1: the uncertainty of when will this be over the destruction
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Speaker 1: of routines has really exacerbated a problem that's already pretty significant.
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Speaker 1: I think the other thing to consider is when people
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Speaker 1: talk about the weight loss industry, that that's a pretty
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Speaker 1: big category that can include things like diet drinks and
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Speaker 1: low calorie foods. When you actually look at the number
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Speaker 1: of people who are enrolling in structured weight management program
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Speaker 1: it's actually very few. It's only about five percent of
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Speaker 1: the people who are trying to lose weight. About thirty
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Speaker 1: five to forty percent of people in the US are
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Speaker 1: trying to lose weight at any one time. Most people
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Speaker 1: are trying to do that on their own. And that's
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Speaker 1: where people can get attracted for sort of natural human
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Speaker 1: reasons that this sounds great, I'll try it. That sounds great,
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Speaker 1: But then they end up going on and off things that,
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Speaker 1: for reasons we could talk about are usually pretty onerous
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Speaker 1: and draconian. Although they seemed like they would bring motivation
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Speaker 1: in the short term, they actually sat.
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Speaker 2: And what I do also want to throw into the
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Speaker 2: mix here before we keep going is, as I mentioned
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Speaker 2: at the top of this, we are here to talk
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Speaker 2: about strategies for weight loss maintenance. In no way is
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Speaker 2: this me sitting here telling everyone that's listening to this
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Speaker 2: show that they should lose weight. But in the context
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Speaker 2: to my story, I actually personally used WW back when
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Speaker 2: I was in college to lose something like about seventy pounds,
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Speaker 2: and that weight loss dramatically impacted my life for the
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Speaker 2: better because not only of the health benefits I got
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Speaker 2: from kind of taking ownership over my circumstance and plus
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Speaker 2: mental health benefits that came hand in hand with executing
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Speaker 2: and living a healthier lifestyle. But I understand and recognize
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Speaker 2: that I am in a small category of people that
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Speaker 2: are able to keep off weight after losing a significant
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Speaker 2: amount of it. Do you have any insight about how
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Speaker 2: many people that lose weight are successful at keeping it
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Speaker 2: off long term?
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Speaker 1: Yeah? I think the data we have from clinical trials,
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Speaker 1: you know, I would say twenty years ago, a statistic
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Speaker 1: that was often cited is most people won't be able
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Speaker 1: to lose weight. Of those you know, less than five
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Speaker 1: percent will be able to maintain it. The field has
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Speaker 1: improved significantly since then, and trials that we've done at WW,
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Speaker 1: for example, would show that when you give people exposure
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Speaker 1: to or a program either for twelve or fifty two
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Speaker 1: weeks and follow them up two years later that they're
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Speaker 1: able to maintain about two thirds of their weight loss.
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Speaker 1: So there is some weight regain, But it's not like
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Speaker 1: everybody goes back to baseline or every goes up. But
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Speaker 1: the experience that you described, not for yourself because you've
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Speaker 1: been incredibly successful, congrats on that, designs that there are
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Speaker 1: people who lose weight very quickly and rebound and lots
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Speaker 1: of reasons for that. There could be biology involved, life
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Speaker 1: could get in the way. The approach that people pick
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Speaker 1: is often very strict and just a lot of work,
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Speaker 1: and it's not sustainable. So not suggesting this is an
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Speaker 1: easy problem to manage, but I think science based strategies
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Speaker 1: can play a much more helpful role than sort of
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Speaker 1: what's the latest I am sort of diet are.
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Speaker 3: In my weight loss?
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Speaker 2: What was helpful incorporating a program like WW into the
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Speaker 2: mix was that I learned a lot about food, and
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Speaker 2: I learned a lot about foods that made me feel
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Speaker 2: good and what types of foods I should be leaning
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Speaker 2: into more than others. Perhaps, I mean, the program has
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Speaker 2: drastically changed that you guys offer since when I was
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Speaker 2: an active member, But again, it was a really educational
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Speaker 2: time for me, and it helped me lay a foundation
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Speaker 2: which aided me in keeping off a majority I would
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Speaker 2: say of this weight loss even to this day. So
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Speaker 2: again that's what we're here to talk about. We're here
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Speaker 2: to talk about weight loss maintenance. So right off the bat,
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Speaker 2: for someone that has lost a significant amount of weight,
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Speaker 2: what would you say is probably the point where they
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Speaker 2: may like understand, like okay, it's time to transition into maintenance,
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Speaker 2: and like be okay with like what has happened here.
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Speaker 1: That's a really great question because in my years of
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Speaker 1: working with individuals and groups and now in my work
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Speaker 1: at WW where it's millions of people who I've access
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Speaker 1: to digitally and in person. So I spend a lot
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Speaker 1: of time listening to folks, and it's the rare person
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Speaker 1: who can say, or who does say, it's time for
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Speaker 1: me to maintain my weight. It's always just another five
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Speaker 1: to ten, let me get a buffer. And that constant
11:35
Speaker 1: pursuit of the next stage has some bad effects. It
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Speaker 1: deprives you of the ability to celebrate the significant accomplishment
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Speaker 1: that people have when they have lost weight, whether it's
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Speaker 1: five pounds or fifty pounds, is sort of immateial. They're
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Speaker 1: different processes. But the psychological process is that, Okay, I've
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Speaker 1: reached the goal that I had. And for many people
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Speaker 1: it's not so much about weight, it's how they're feeling,
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Speaker 1: how they're moving. I can get up steps with less
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Speaker 1: shortness of breath, I can roll around the floor with
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Speaker 1: my kids or my grand kids. It's not some specific
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Speaker 1: number on a scale. So that's part of the process.
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Speaker 1: And then I think from there, then you can say, Okay,
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Speaker 1: I'm going to go to a place where I'm happy
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Speaker 1: maintaining this current state. And there's a lot of factors
12:23
Speaker 1: that go to One that I often talk to people
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Speaker 1: about is how hard is this? Like if you're already
12:28
Speaker 1: working at a ten plus, like that should create some
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Speaker 1: pause about whether this weight is actually realistically sustainable, and
12:36
Speaker 1: then further weight loss would almost be off the table.
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Speaker 1: But if you're working at a seven or an eight,
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Speaker 1: that's probably a great place because you can back down
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Speaker 1: a little bit. You can give yourself some latitude to
12:47
Speaker 1: eat slightly more because you'll be going from a weight
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Speaker 1: loss mode to a weight maintenance mode. But you also
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Speaker 1: have for overall health reasons, but also because it's the
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Speaker 1: single best predictor of who keeps weight often who doesn't
13:00
Speaker 1: going to need to engage in more physical activity. So
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Speaker 1: first step is just to get your head wrapped around
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Speaker 1: not this relentless chasing of some silly number on a scale.
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Speaker 1: Get it grounded in things that are important to you,
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Speaker 1: not so number, and then give yourself sort of a
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Speaker 1: temperature check about does this feel like something I can
13:19
Speaker 1: do for a long time? And if it doesn't, then
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Speaker 1: I think you need to reevaluate.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, and I can definitely relate to the idea of
13:26
Speaker 2: chasing you know, that buffer, those extra five to ten pounds.
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Speaker 2: And what I found in my journey was that although
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Speaker 2: my lowest weight may be about ten to twelve pounds
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Speaker 2: less than I am right now, that was a weight
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Speaker 2: that like felt okay in college, that's not a weight
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Speaker 2: that feels okay for me now at thirty three. At
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Speaker 2: thirty three, I know what feels good in my body,
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Speaker 2: and sure, like I think we can all get caught
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Speaker 2: up at times with like that number on the scale.
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Speaker 2: But to go back to your point you just made,
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Speaker 2: it's about that feeling and like what feels right.
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Speaker 3: I don't feel good.
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Speaker 2: I trying to deprive myself to that college goal weight
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Speaker 2: like that doesn't feel good for me anymore.
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Speaker 1: That's a great way to think about it as we
14:09
Speaker 1: think about the process of weight management. It's really a
14:12
Speaker 1: way to take care of yourself. And if you start
14:15
Speaker 1: with that position in the journey, whether you're in the beginning,
14:17
Speaker 1: middle and or it's an ongoing journey, if this is
14:21
Speaker 1: something that's feeling like you're doing something for yourself, not
14:24
Speaker 1: against yourself, something that's positive not punitive, something that literally
14:29
Speaker 1: is a gift to yourself, that changes the frame. So
14:32
Speaker 1: it gets to the question you're asking, is what feels
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Speaker 1: good to me, not how do I chase some unrealistic
14:38
Speaker 1: goal on the scale.
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Speaker 3: Definitely, definitely, Okay.
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Speaker 2: So the first step to weight maintenance is getting to
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Speaker 2: a point where you're like, okay, I am ready to maintain,
14:47
Speaker 2: putting it into the universe, speaking it in to existence.
14:51
Speaker 2: After we get to this point, what are some of
14:54
Speaker 2: the steps that we should take. You mentioned the importance
14:56
Speaker 2: of physical activity, for example.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, physical activity is certainly important in the short term.
15:02
Speaker 1: You get about twenty percent more weight loss with activity
15:05
Speaker 1: than without, but that could be trivial on a weekly basis.
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Speaker 1: That could be like, instead of one pounds one point
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Speaker 1: two pounds, right, So it's not overly compelling. And the
15:14
Speaker 1: single most important reason to do physical activity is for
15:17
Speaker 1: all of the benefits. Going back to does it feel good,
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Speaker 1: There's lots of emotional benefits. It reduces stress and improves
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Speaker 1: self esteem. There's lots of medical benefits. It prevents diabetes,
15:28
Speaker 1: it helps manage diabetes, heart disease, blood pressure, cholesterol. I mean,
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Speaker 1: it is the single most impactful behavior you can do
15:38
Speaker 1: for your health. Forget about weight when it comes to
15:41
Speaker 1: weight loss maintenance. The studies are really clear that people
15:44
Speaker 1: who are more active do much better. And it doesn't
15:47
Speaker 1: mean you have to be running marathons. Marathons are great
15:49
Speaker 1: if you're so disposed, but simply walking ten, fifteen, twenty
15:54
Speaker 1: thirty minutes, not every single day of your life, but
15:57
Speaker 1: on a regular basis actually predict who does better and
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Speaker 1: who doesn't. And importantly for physical activity, and this goes
16:05
Speaker 1: just to the whole mindset of when you're approaching weight
16:09
Speaker 1: and particularly weight loss maintenance is move in ways that
16:13
Speaker 1: move you. So if you love running, go for it.
16:17
Speaker 1: If you love yoga, go for it. But don't think
16:20
Speaker 1: that I've got to do something that it's sort of
16:23
Speaker 1: this dated thing like no pain, no gain. That's nonsense.
16:27
Speaker 1: If there's pain, it won't be sustainable, so why would
16:30
Speaker 1: you do it? So I think it's yeah, physical activity,
16:32
Speaker 1: but abandon the ideas that it has to hurt to help,
16:36
Speaker 1: no pain, no gain, and find ways that are enjoyable.
16:38
Speaker 1: And for lots of folks that we work with, it's
16:42
Speaker 1: connecting some other social aspect to that or something that's reinforcing.
16:46
Speaker 1: So instead of saying I have to go to the gym,
16:48
Speaker 1: I have to go walk a mile or whatever, I'm
16:50
Speaker 1: going to do that with a friend, or I'm going
16:52
Speaker 1: to do that in the kid with the kids with
16:55
Speaker 1: my kids in the park, or I'm going to listen
16:58
Speaker 1: to my favorite podcast on the treadmill. To couple those
17:02
Speaker 1: things that initially aren't maybe or maybe neutral or tad
17:06
Speaker 1: unpleasant to you with things that are pleasant will lead
17:09
Speaker 1: to habit formation. And it really means those things now
17:12
Speaker 1: become automatic, they don't become work.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, And I love what you said about the podcast
17:16
Speaker 2: and the treadmill, like if you start to stack your habits,
17:19
Speaker 2: then they're going to be something that are even more
17:21
Speaker 2: attractive to you for sure. And of course do what
17:25
Speaker 2: you like, do what you love. The activity will be
17:28
Speaker 2: better the more ways that you can make.
17:30
Speaker 3: It enjoyable for yourself.
17:32
Speaker 2: You also mentioned a buzzword here which will transition us
17:35
Speaker 2: into the next part, which is mindset. I think mindset
17:39
Speaker 2: is a huge part, a huge piece to the puzzle
17:42
Speaker 2: when it comes to weight loss maintenance. Let's talk a
17:45
Speaker 2: little bit about that and how what kind of mindset
17:49
Speaker 2: or what kind of self talk is going to help
17:52
Speaker 2: you on your journey to maintaining all of that hard work.
17:57
Speaker 1: I think, in some ways the keys of mindset, and
18:00
Speaker 1: I'll just define mindset for a second, and the way,
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Speaker 1: at least in my mind and the science would bear
18:07
Speaker 1: this out. It's the way you think about yourself and
18:10
Speaker 1: the way you think about the journey, and both of
18:12
Speaker 1: those are critically important. Because of the weight and shape
18:16
Speaker 1: based stigma that we talked about earlier. A lot of
18:18
Speaker 1: people start from a position of denigrating themselves, of saying,
18:23
Speaker 1: here I go again, how did I get myself in
18:25
Speaker 1: this position? And to somehow think that their weight or
18:28
Speaker 1: their worth is contingent on their weight. And that's a
18:32
Speaker 1: really fragile position to start in, and that data don't
18:36
Speaker 1: support it, and it's not effective. So the first thing
18:39
Speaker 1: about mindset is, again whether you're on the weight loss
18:42
Speaker 1: maintenance side or just beginning, is to approach this by
18:46
Speaker 1: practicing self compassion. And what I mean by that is
18:49
Speaker 1: to believe at this moment, independent of what you weigh
18:52
Speaker 1: or what you run away forget, you have value as
18:56
Speaker 1: you are right this millisecond. What that does is it
19:00
Speaker 1: turns the journey and the way you think about it
19:02
Speaker 1: upside down. So we have what we're thinking about ourselves,
19:05
Speaker 1: I'm fundamentally worth taking care of that instead of I
19:09
Speaker 1: can't eat this, I can only eat that turns into
19:13
Speaker 1: one of the ways that I want to treat my
19:14
Speaker 1: body with reverence and respect. And that's a different way
19:19
Speaker 1: to look at physical activity or what food you're going
19:21
Speaker 1: to have for dinner rather than what's on my diet checklist.
19:25
Speaker 1: So that's a fundamental underpinning of any successful weight loss
19:29
Speaker 1: maint in its journey, is treating yourself with self compassion.
19:33
Speaker 1: I think another thing is, and you talked about self talk,
19:36
Speaker 1: is that there are many different types probably three central
19:40
Speaker 1: types of thinking styles that can get in the way.
19:43
Speaker 1: One is all or unthinking. So I'm a success or
19:45
Speaker 1: I'm a failure, I'm on a diet, I'm off a diet.
19:48
Speaker 1: That's just not real life, and it actually allows people
19:52
Speaker 1: to take an offering from the journey. Other ways that
19:55
Speaker 1: derail people are ways that they focus on the negative.
19:58
Speaker 1: They focus on the one or two days they didn't
20:00
Speaker 1: work out versus two or three that they did. And
20:04
Speaker 1: then finally there's this catastrophizing. So you know, you take
20:09
Speaker 1: one event and you know it's just going to happen forever.
20:12
Speaker 1: So how you talk to yourself during the journey is
20:15
Speaker 1: critically important, and I think that comes to allowing yourself
20:19
Speaker 1: to expect, expect fully expect setbacks. They happen to one
20:24
Speaker 1: hundred percent of the people, one hundred percent of the time.
20:27
Speaker 1: What can you learn from those and get right back
20:29
Speaker 1: on track. So a thing that has really been useful,
20:32
Speaker 1: and this is from cognitive behavioral therapy, is that when
20:36
Speaker 1: you have a setback, the goal is not to overcompensate
20:39
Speaker 1: for that. So if you ate more than you planned
20:41
Speaker 1: or move less than you plan, that's fine. Go back
20:43
Speaker 1: to whatever you were doing the next day, or the
20:45
Speaker 1: next meal or the next hour. This over compensation leads
20:49
Speaker 1: to over restriction, deprivation and then there's a bouncepect effect.
20:53
Speaker 1: So that's where I think mindset can really be important
20:55
Speaker 1: in terms of how you think about yourself with self compassion,
20:58
Speaker 1: but also how you think about the journey. And that's
21:00
Speaker 1: setbacks are an inevitable part of the journey. Expect them,
21:04
Speaker 1: recover from them, and don't overcompensate.
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Speaker 2: no code necessary. Let's get back to it. Something you
24:44
Speaker 2: mentioned toward the beginning there was talking about investing in
24:48
Speaker 2: yourself and understanding that, regardless of your size, that you
24:51
Speaker 2: are worthy of that investment. When I was overweight, when
24:55
Speaker 2: I was over two hundred pounds from me, I didn't
24:58
Speaker 2: understand that right. I hadn't felt as though, whether it
25:03
Speaker 2: be you know, myself talk or what was going on
25:06
Speaker 2: in the society and the world around me, that I
25:08
Speaker 2: was worthy of that kind of energy. And what I
25:11
Speaker 2: realized through investing in myself was that I deserved my
25:15
Speaker 2: own energy. I deserved my own attention and my own affection.
25:18
Speaker 2: And now, regardless of what happens here, if I keep
25:21
Speaker 2: this weight off, if I don't keep this weight off,
25:23
Speaker 2: although it's been you know, a nice chunk of time
25:25
Speaker 2: that I've been maintaining this for myself, but I know that,
25:29
Speaker 2: like I am always worthy of that investment. And I
25:32
Speaker 2: think that that again, is just a theme to run
25:34
Speaker 2: home here, regardless of who's listening to this, where you
25:37
Speaker 2: are in your personal journey, is that you are worthy
25:40
Speaker 2: of that energy, no matter your size, no matter where
25:43
Speaker 2: you're out, no matter where you're at, whether things are
25:45
Speaker 2: going quote unquote well or if they're not going well,
25:48
Speaker 2: Which brings us back to your point just now about
25:51
Speaker 2: making sure that if you hit those hurdles, you're not
25:54
Speaker 2: completely nose diving in this like extreme deprivation space, because
25:59
Speaker 2: that's going to do any good for anybody.
26:02
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, it's really it's this realistic view of the journey.
26:05
Speaker 1: But also this, as you expressed it so eloquently, there
26:09
Speaker 1: is that you are worth taking care of, that you
26:12
Speaker 1: do have value, and you deserve to treat yourself well.
26:14
Speaker 1: That's a nice buffer for the ups and downs which
26:18
Speaker 1: will absolutely happen, not just in a weight management journey,
26:21
Speaker 1: but in life. If you think about people are going
26:24
Speaker 1: to work on their relationships or work on their work performance,
26:27
Speaker 1: it's the same thing. There will be setbacks, and your
26:29
Speaker 1: worth isn't determined on that. But if you're saying I
26:33
Speaker 1: want to improve in this way or another, I want
26:35
Speaker 1: to treat my body differently, I want to treat it
26:38
Speaker 1: with the respect and reverence it deserves. Again, coming at
26:41
Speaker 1: that is something you're doing for yourself makes all the difference,
26:45
Speaker 1: rather than something that's being imposed.
26:46
Speaker 2: We would be remiss if we didn't cover or speak
26:49
Speaker 2: about food, because food and intake of food is a
26:53
Speaker 2: important thing to talk about when it comes to maintaining
26:56
Speaker 2: weight loss. I love what you said before about them
27:00
Speaker 2: leorrance of us after a large weight loss, reframing the
27:03
Speaker 2: way that we look at food in general, instead of
27:06
Speaker 2: putting things on a cannot eat list or these are
27:10
Speaker 2: good foods versus bad foods list, it's learning how to
27:13
Speaker 2: look at food holistically as it applies to our lives
27:16
Speaker 2: and our every day.
27:18
Speaker 1: Absolutely, a mantra at WW for us, again because it's
27:21
Speaker 1: based in science, is that all foods are on the menu.
27:25
Speaker 1: It has to be as soon as you say I
27:26
Speaker 1: can't have that, psychologically you want it. You know why
27:29
Speaker 1: wouldn't you. It's a model based on deprivation. And I
27:34
Speaker 1: think the other problem to solve, whether it's early in
27:36
Speaker 1: the journey or later in the journey, is that we're
27:39
Speaker 1: bombarded with information about foods. If you just look at
27:43
Speaker 1: a food label, it must have twelve or thirteen lines
27:45
Speaker 1: of data, and it's got milligrams and gramps and percent
27:48
Speaker 1: of the RDAs. You need to be a registered dietitian
27:52
Speaker 1: and you have to have a PhD in calculus to
27:54
Speaker 1: figure out exactly what you're supposed to eat. And so
27:58
Speaker 1: what we've done is develop a system, call it a
28:00
Speaker 1: personal point system, which takes a lot of the science
28:03
Speaker 1: about that all fats aren't the same, there's a difference
28:06
Speaker 1: between healthy fats and saturated fats. All sugar is not
28:08
Speaker 1: the same, there's a difference between added sugar and natural sugar.
28:12
Speaker 1: And puts six seven of things into a firmat and
28:15
Speaker 1: distill that into one number. So there has to be
28:17
Speaker 1: a way to take that complexity and make it simple.
28:21
Speaker 1: And then to your point, which is critically important, these
28:24
Speaker 1: points values that don't represent this is a good food
28:27
Speaker 1: and a bad food. Like if that's the way you're thinking,
28:29
Speaker 1: that's all or none thinking. Right, that's definitely a cognitive
28:33
Speaker 1: landmind for you to not do well, because then that's
28:35
Speaker 1: sort of even the words good and bad or moral.
28:39
Speaker 1: Your character is not measured by how many M and
28:42
Speaker 1: ms you ate today or not. The eating is not
28:45
Speaker 1: a moral issue. So the more we can get away
28:48
Speaker 1: from judgment or character assassination somehow that's an indication of
28:54
Speaker 1: who I am by what I eat. That's just not
28:56
Speaker 1: going to work. And to your other point, this broad
28:59
Speaker 1: holistic view of eating a variety of foods, of picking
29:02
Speaker 1: your spots. Sometimes they'll be holiday times, there could be
29:06
Speaker 1: a Saturday night, they will be different, and that's okay.
29:10
Speaker 1: Real life is not that you eat the same on
29:12
Speaker 1: a Monday as a Saturday and allowing yourself some psychologists.
29:17
Speaker 1: Scientific psychologists call this flexible restraint, so that you're mindful
29:22
Speaker 1: about what you're choosing, but you have some flexibility. You're nectually.
29:26
Speaker 1: I'm going to eat the same thing, the same calories,
29:29
Speaker 1: the same points every single day.
29:30
Speaker 3: That's not real life, right right?
29:32
Speaker 2: And I think although it might not be the same
29:35
Speaker 2: every day for me, something that's been super helpful is
29:38
Speaker 2: having certain things that I know I love to have
29:40
Speaker 2: around that promote me taking care of myself and my body.
29:45
Speaker 2: Whether that's you know, the ag one I shake up
29:48
Speaker 2: first thing in the morning, or if it's having fresh
29:51
Speaker 2: berries in my fridge so that I can eat those
29:53
Speaker 2: from my afternoon snack instead of like opening the pint
29:55
Speaker 2: of ice cream, which I still do keep in the freezer,
29:58
Speaker 2: but I'll save that for like my like couple of
30:01
Speaker 2: spoonfuls when it gets to deserve time, instead of like
30:04
Speaker 2: hitting that mid afternoon sugar craving in that other way.
30:07
Speaker 2: So I feel like, you know, keeping things around the
30:10
Speaker 2: home that promote who you want to be. Not to
30:13
Speaker 2: say that, like I can't keep the ice cream in
30:15
Speaker 2: the freezer, I can't have a thing of cookies in
30:17
Speaker 2: my closet. But for me, when it comes to weight
30:20
Speaker 2: loss maintenance, I'm often better off if I'm like usually
30:24
Speaker 2: seeking those things.
30:25
Speaker 3: Outside of my home.
30:26
Speaker 2: It doesn't mean that I can't have them, in fact,
30:28
Speaker 2: I have them pretty regularly, but it just is a
30:31
Speaker 2: better strategy for me to you know, feel better in
30:34
Speaker 2: my own body.
30:35
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think you said two things that are really
30:37
Speaker 1: helpful there. One is that it's a way you're promoting
30:39
Speaker 1: your own health. This again is turning the journey around.
30:42
Speaker 1: It's not like you're going to Dieter's prison, all right,
30:45
Speaker 1: I have to do all this onerous work to keep
30:48
Speaker 1: my weight off where to This is about taking care
30:51
Speaker 1: of yourself and it feels different. So it's not like
30:53
Speaker 1: berries or a punishment, right, it's these are foods that
30:57
Speaker 1: make me feel good. The other thing that the way
30:59
Speaker 1: you're setting up your environment is just going to promote habits.
31:02
Speaker 1: Foods that are more accessible will be eaten more frequently.
31:05
Speaker 1: And if you just it sounds simple, right, but it's
31:08
Speaker 1: not so simple. It requires a little bit of setup time,
31:11
Speaker 1: right and to thinking about it. So again, how you
31:13
Speaker 1: think about you, I'm worth taking care of. I want
31:16
Speaker 1: to do things to promote my health, And how you
31:18
Speaker 1: think about the journey is how I set up my environment.
31:21
Speaker 1: I know for a lot of people that I've worked
31:23
Speaker 1: with that COVID provided a real big challenge just because
31:29
Speaker 1: of the foods. People were doing zoom calls like three
31:32
Speaker 1: feet from their kitchen. That changes the environment. So after
31:36
Speaker 1: a zoom call, you get into a routine is oh
31:38
Speaker 1: I'll go through the kitchen, I'll check what's in the pantry.
31:41
Speaker 1: Those kind of things make a difference. So setting your
31:43
Speaker 1: household up in ways that are as you describe it,
31:46
Speaker 1: I think really well, in ways to take care of
31:49
Speaker 1: yourself is really a tip for success.
31:52
Speaker 3: Yeah.
31:52
Speaker 2: I mean I definitely went through a period like you
31:54
Speaker 2: described during COVID where I felt as though I was
31:57
Speaker 2: getting like a little out of control in that like
32:00
Speaker 2: literally every zoom call and.
32:02
Speaker 3: Okay, time to go look at what's in the fridge.
32:04
Speaker 2: And I finally got to a point, as I think
32:07
Speaker 2: many people who have gone through similar experience as I have,
32:11
Speaker 2: where I got like fed up with my own bs
32:14
Speaker 2: and I saw that I kept making excuses and excuses
32:17
Speaker 2: as to why I was bringing things into my home
32:20
Speaker 2: that like may have in the moment tasted good, but
32:22
Speaker 2: didn't make me feel good. And to take back that
32:25
Speaker 2: agency and to realize and really like savor the feelings
32:30
Speaker 2: that I experienced when I took back control over what
32:33
Speaker 2: I was putting into my body. It wasn't obscenely restrictive,
32:36
Speaker 2: it wasn't like I wasn't eating Like let's make that clear.
32:39
Speaker 2: What I did was stopped eating a bunch of stuff
32:43
Speaker 2: that didn't make me feel good. And I was so
32:46
Speaker 2: thankful to get to that place of ownership and agency
32:50
Speaker 2: and control and like satisfaction. And I think that that
32:54
Speaker 2: is something that in today's society can be looked at
32:58
Speaker 2: so many different ways. But all I knew, and you know,
33:02
Speaker 2: it's self worth, it's self talk. It's that my self
33:05
Speaker 2: talk got better when I took back control.
33:08
Speaker 1: Absolutely. You know, it's the scientific fact that the self
33:12
Speaker 1: efficacy or the your ability in the belief to affect
33:16
Speaker 1: change for yourself is highly predictive of success. And it
33:20
Speaker 1: goes to this agency and control that you're talking about.
33:23
Speaker 1: And again this goes back to this central thesis is
33:26
Speaker 1: that I'm in charge of this journey, and I view
33:29
Speaker 1: this journey as something that's nurturing to myself. If you
33:33
Speaker 1: start there, you're eighty percent of the way there, because
33:36
Speaker 1: the whole process feels different. It doesn't feel like work.
33:39
Speaker 1: It feels like, as you said, you're grateful that you're
33:41
Speaker 1: able to make these changes in ways that feel kind
33:46
Speaker 1: to yourself and give yourself grace. And giving yourself grace
33:49
Speaker 1: is really important on a long term journey of any
33:52
Speaker 1: sort again, whether it's work, relationships or managing your weight
33:56
Speaker 1: and wellness journey, because you will have these setbacks. If
34:00
Speaker 1: you have really harsh talk to yourself every time you
34:03
Speaker 1: have a setback, that's going to be a long haul
34:06
Speaker 1: and it just won't be sustained.
34:07
Speaker 2: Yeah, So we've talked about the importance of environment. We've
34:10
Speaker 2: talked about being smart about the foods that you keep
34:12
Speaker 2: around and what you're putting into your body, the importance
34:14
Speaker 2: of movement.
34:15
Speaker 3: Self talk.
34:16
Speaker 2: One other habit that we haven't touched on yet, which
34:18
Speaker 2: I know that has been really helpful for me when
34:20
Speaker 2: it comes to articulating how I'm feeling and being honest
34:24
Speaker 2: about what's happening with me and my body and my
34:26
Speaker 2: thought process is journaling. Can you talk to me a
34:28
Speaker 2: little bit about why journaling and like kind of writing
34:31
Speaker 2: things out and seeing where you're at can be really helpful.
34:34
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it can be helpful for a couple
34:36
Speaker 1: of reasons. One is that it just increases awareness, and
34:39
Speaker 1: that's in our busy day to day lives and also
34:42
Speaker 1: in which things can become very automatic or habitualized, we
34:47
Speaker 1: might not be aware of the kind of things we're doing.
34:50
Speaker 1: And it could be on the very tactical side that
34:53
Speaker 1: it's well known that we do a lot of mindless eating.
34:56
Speaker 1: So while we're watching a favorite show or listening to
34:59
Speaker 1: the this or doing that, or doing work, you just
35:02
Speaker 1: sort of mindlessly eat. You sort of tasting of but
35:05
Speaker 1: sort of not getting much enjoyment from it. And so
35:10
Speaker 1: journaling can just increase your awareness of the food you're eating.
35:14
Speaker 1: That's sort of food journaling, but there's also the benefit
35:17
Speaker 1: of journaling just how you're feeling, and it gets to
35:20
Speaker 1: be very therapeutic just to be able to it takes
35:23
Speaker 1: a process, right, so you have to think about how
35:25
Speaker 1: you're feeling, you get the words, you have to write
35:27
Speaker 1: it down. That's a process. Now you're reading, that's a process,
35:31
Speaker 1: and it's cathartic in a way to be able just
35:34
Speaker 1: to get some clarity about I'm having a rough day,
35:38
Speaker 1: what's happening, And just to get that, whether it's on
35:42
Speaker 1: a piece of paper or on your phone or wherever
35:45
Speaker 1: it is, can be really really helpful. Another technique that
35:48
Speaker 1: we know scientifically really makes a difference, which is a
35:51
Speaker 1: form of tracking. It's called the three good Things technique,
35:55
Speaker 1: which you're probably familiar with, but it's basically at the
35:58
Speaker 1: end of the day. You can do it any time
35:59
Speaker 1: of day, just write down three things you're grateful for.
36:02
Speaker 1: It could be trivial, could be the smell of a good,
36:04
Speaker 1: great cup of coffee in the morning. It could be
36:06
Speaker 1: heard from an old friend, it could be pride in
36:09
Speaker 1: some accomplishment of you, family members, et cetera. And just
36:13
Speaker 1: for three minutes wallow around in that feeling about what
36:17
Speaker 1: it was like to smell that cup of coffee, what
36:19
Speaker 1: it was like to get some good news, to get
36:22
Speaker 1: some compliment, and that actually makes people happy. So it's
36:26
Speaker 1: a form of tracking that can ground you in reality.
36:30
Speaker 1: It's another good thing tracking does because sometimes people say like, oh,
36:33
Speaker 1: I've blown it, I'm out of control. Well, you write
36:36
Speaker 1: it down and you track it. So it's truly about awareness,
36:39
Speaker 1: and it's about normalizing, and it's about reminding yourself of
36:44
Speaker 1: you know, it's probably not as bad as you think,
36:47
Speaker 1: or if it's not exactly where you want, at least
36:48
Speaker 1: you have a roadmap of where you want.
36:50
Speaker 2: To make some changes, right, And I think in that
36:52
Speaker 2: I love that one of the examples that you listed
36:55
Speaker 2: was like smelling the coffee, right, because it doesn't need
36:58
Speaker 2: to be like this massive, huge accomplishment like moment you know,
37:03
Speaker 2: you know what I'm saying here, Just the smell of
37:05
Speaker 2: the coffee could be something, a small thing that you
37:07
Speaker 2: have gratitude for. And this is definitely a practice that
37:11
Speaker 2: I've kind of adopted as well. I do it most
37:13
Speaker 2: often in the morning, if not first thing when I'm journaling,
37:16
Speaker 2: just normally before I get into my morning exercise. I
37:20
Speaker 2: sit down at my desk and literally at the top
37:22
Speaker 2: of my to do list every day when I get
37:24
Speaker 2: into this room, when I get into this studio is
37:26
Speaker 2: a place to write three bullets of gratitude and to
37:29
Speaker 2: be able to sit there if I have trouble articulating
37:32
Speaker 2: three different things, and I kind of have like a
37:34
Speaker 2: moment where I take a step back and I'm like,
37:36
Speaker 2: what are you so wrapped up in that you can't
37:39
Speaker 2: find this in bold joys in your day and like.
37:41
Speaker 3: Kind of do a little little pulse check, have a
37:44
Speaker 3: little moment.
37:45
Speaker 1: Yep, Yeah, that's beautiful.
37:47
Speaker 3: It's important.
37:48
Speaker 1: I think you're right important. Yeah, And it's a way
37:51
Speaker 1: to ground your day. I was talking to somebody recently
37:53
Speaker 1: who said that they have a teenage children and that
37:57
Speaker 1: at dinner time, it's it's sort of like pulling teeth,
37:59
Speaker 1: how was your fine? How was school? Find And they
38:02
Speaker 1: started a ritual where each person just went around and
38:05
Speaker 1: said one thing and it changed the whole tone of
38:07
Speaker 1: dinner and just to your point in the beginning of
38:11
Speaker 1: the day, it changes your day. Is it a pulse
38:13
Speaker 1: check that I can't find some things or if you
38:15
Speaker 1: get anchored in those things, even for a few minutes,
38:17
Speaker 1: it actually makes your day better. It's a powerful, powerful technique.
38:21
Speaker 3: Super powerful technique.
38:22
Speaker 2: And one thing we did mention earlier, which I think
38:24
Speaker 2: is important for us to highlight before I do let
38:27
Speaker 2: you go today, is the importance of bringing other people
38:30
Speaker 2: into the fold, or talking about your experience with others,
38:33
Speaker 2: whether that's a friend or perhaps some sort of therapist.
38:38
Speaker 2: We talked about it in relevance to having an activity partner,
38:41
Speaker 2: but beyond that, why is it important to talk about
38:43
Speaker 2: your experience if you're hoping to maintain a weight loss.
38:49
Speaker 1: I think because sometimes we get and this goes back
38:52
Speaker 1: to what we discussed earlier. You get lost in your
38:54
Speaker 1: own self talk, and our self talk tends to be automatic, irrational,
38:58
Speaker 1: and quite negative. And one of the techniques for self
39:01
Speaker 1: compassion actually is talk to yourself like a friend would
39:04
Speaker 1: so and it does not have to be your best friend.
39:06
Speaker 1: But if you can think about ww we have a
39:08
Speaker 1: very robust digital community. We have face to face. It
39:10
Speaker 1: could be people who are close to you, it could
39:13
Speaker 1: be people more distant, but they actually have this sense
39:16
Speaker 1: of normalizing. Like I've heard people say, you know, they've
39:21
Speaker 1: lost fifty pounds and they regain five and I've blown
39:23
Speaker 1: it and I'm right back where I started. And it's like,
39:25
Speaker 1: if you said that to somebody else, or if somebody
39:28
Speaker 1: else said that to you, your response would be, you know, realistic,
39:31
Speaker 1: like a friend would be, but it would be kind.
39:34
Speaker 1: Then it would be balanced, not the harsh self talk.
39:37
Speaker 1: So I think the most powerful thing about a community
39:41
Speaker 1: is it can be normalizing the way a good friend was.
39:44
Speaker 1: That doesn't mean everything's great, don't worry about it to
39:46
Speaker 1: get better by itself. It won't. But this compassionate realism
39:52
Speaker 1: that you can get from virtual and physical communities can
39:55
Speaker 1: be really powerful, and it really gets at the heart
39:58
Speaker 1: of the issue of how people talk to themselves. And
40:03
Speaker 1: what's very clear from the science is that despite what
40:06
Speaker 1: people think, because people often think, the harder I am
40:09
Speaker 1: on myself, you know, if tough love is good, self
40:12
Speaker 1: tough love is twice as good. The data are very clear.
40:15
Speaker 1: It robs you of motivation and self compassion beats self
40:19
Speaker 1: criticism every single time.
40:23
Speaker 3: Oh what a line? What a line?
40:26
Speaker 2: I want to ask you if there's anything else that
40:28
Speaker 2: we should address here.
40:29
Speaker 3: It's so easy to end on like that sucker punch.
40:31
Speaker 2: Great note, but is there anything else that you think
40:34
Speaker 2: we should address before I let you go today?
40:37
Speaker 1: I think just to give yourself grace to think about
40:42
Speaker 1: wherever you are, whether it's a weight loss, maintenance journey
40:45
Speaker 1: or other any other journey, that there will be bumps
40:48
Speaker 1: in the road, and that, especially when it comes to
40:50
Speaker 1: weight loss maintenance, it's tougher than weight loss because the
40:54
Speaker 1: dynamics change from a reinforcement perspective. Nobody's saying, oh, you
40:59
Speaker 1: look free, kept your weight off for two years. You're
41:02
Speaker 1: getting lots of Benny's during the process. Close sizes are changing,
41:06
Speaker 1: people are noticing, You're starting to get dramatic differences in
41:10
Speaker 1: how you feel, how you move. Where maintenance is just
41:14
Speaker 1: that it's maintenance, and people don't notice change. So that's
41:17
Speaker 1: why this fundamental belief in your own self worth and
41:21
Speaker 1: finding ways in the journey to take care of yourself
41:23
Speaker 1: and nurture yourself, that's what this journey is about, not
41:26
Speaker 1: chasing some number on the scale, I think is just
41:29
Speaker 1: central to being successful in the long home.
41:32
Speaker 3: I loved this conversation, doctor Foster.
41:34
Speaker 2: Thanks so much for your time and oh my god,
41:36
Speaker 2: your wealth of knowledge. I definitely would not be surprised
41:39
Speaker 2: hurdler's if you hear from him again on the show
41:42
Speaker 2: how How do hurdlers follow along with you, learn more
41:45
Speaker 2: from you, keep up with you, give us all the info. Yeah.
41:48
Speaker 1: At doctor Gary Foster on Twitter.
41:50
Speaker 3: Awesome again, I'm over.
41:52
Speaker 2: At Emily Abadi and at Hurdle Podcast Another hurdle conquered.
41:56
Speaker 3: Catch you guys, next time.
42:01
Speaker 1: To a
42:04
Speaker 2: Man Lie