Latest / Living Uncertain an OCD Podcast / When in doubt, write it out (OCD) (Episode 11)

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When in doubt, write it out (OCD) (Episode 11) · Living Uncertain an OCD Podcast

• Marc & Stacee: Hey, y'all, my name is Stacey, along with my husband, Mark. We'd like to thank you for living uncertain with us. Of course, as you all know by now, this is the podcast that addresses anything and everything related to OCD and ERP. Welcome to episode 11. When in doubt, write it out. So a couple of podcasts ago, we introduced the topic of discussing the different strategies that we learned both in therapy and then were able to implement in Thank you for joining us on today's episode and Living Uncertain with us. We are not therapists and this podcast is intended to provide information and support. It should not replace traditional means of seeking help from a licensed mental health professional. If you like this episode or would like to hear more, please like, subscribe or share with someone you think may benefit. Here at Living Uncertain, we're building a community of support. Opening: Hello, and welcome to the podcast, Living Uncertain. This podcast is dedicated to obsessive compulsive disorder, OCD, and the primary treatment, exposure response prevention, ERP. OCD comes in many forms, such as contamination, perfectionism, checking, harm, superstitious, religious or moral, sexual orientation, and or relationship. ERP is the gold standard to treating OCD. and it focuses on deliberately confronting fears, the exposure, while refraining from compulsive rituals, the response prevention. With repeated exposures and without engaging in compulsions, we learn to tolerate anxiety and break the cycle of intrusive thoughts. We are a married couple that have faced both the challenges of OCD and the incredible healing that ERP can provide to your marriage, family, and your home. As a person who lives with OCD, Marc & Stacee: our home to help with those layers of my OCD that we were discovering in therapy. And that was a really great episode in particular because we really got to take those real life strategies that we learned and be able to share them with you guys, our listeners, and hope that maybe they helped in a way to If you and your significant other would like to share your story, we would love to have you on the podcast. Please click on the link in the episode description and fill out the interest form. Opening: I am much more than this diagnosis. We all can be. Marc & Stacee: give other people out there who might be suffering from OCD or have a significant other with OCD some more ideas to put in their toolbox kind of to help support in the home environment. And so we thought today's episode might be a good one to talk about another strategy, is not something so uncommon in today's day and age, which is writing, journaling, really taking the moment to pen words that are significant in helping to grow, heal, ⁓ even describing different scenarios within your home that might make you uncomfortable when you have to live in that uncertainty and that uncomfortability. Just take the time to sit down, pen to paper and write it down and write it out. And as a true lover of writing that I am, that strategy really spoke to me and it really ⁓ was one I felt like I could bring very consistently into our home as well. And I thought that I was or had an idea of how to do it until my therapist introduced different ways in which I should be doing it or the scenarios in our home that would come up and how to implement the journaling and the writing surrounding those different ⁓ scenarios. And that might not be the best strategy for everybody, because somebody like me that does not really necessarily like to write, I would not necessarily pick up on that as a great strategy for me. So as you work through your therapist, they're going to suggest different types of strategies that will work best for you. you are an absolute writer and love to write and yes, we're very passionate about it. So it was easy for you to sit down and start to journal out kind of what was happening. then sometimes you would allow me to even read them. Yep. And it would give me a little bit deeper understanding of what might have been happening during that time. You know, and that becomes very sometimes when you're going through an OCD episode per se, it becomes can become very frustrating to me. And then once we get through it and you sit down and you journal it out and when you shared them with me. it brings that aha moment. Sure. To be able to think about that later down the road if that type of scenario were to come up again. Yeah. To have a little bit more compassion and understanding of how or why you're going through that. Because a lot of your, I mean, a lot of the thoughts in OCD are irrational thoughts and it's hard to take in. Yes. And it's so hard because... when you're having those intrusive thoughts and you have OCD in the moment, they feel so real and it all feels so real. And the idea that someone else doesn't feel that same way is unfathomable. But to then step back, journal it out and then recognize, ⁓ yeah, not everyone is dealing with those intrusive thoughts like I am. And I need the opportunity to articulate what that does, what that means to me, to someone else. And in this case, my most trusted partner and the person who is helping guide me within our home environment too, through a lot of these. different strategies and scenarios, which is you, babe. And so I'm really appreciative that you are willing to ⁓ read all of that because goodness knows we know you don't like to do that much either. Reading and writing, not my favorite thing. But it was nice for me to be able to share that with you. And if I couldn't articulate it verbally, to be able to have you read what I wrote was another form of having you understand more. ⁓ And the idea that you would show grace and compassion my direction was truly appreciated. Because sometimes when we would talk about like a scenario, I would get frustrated even as we're talking about it. Yeah. And that frustration, you know, then my ears stop listening and emotions kind of take over and the same thing with you and potentially could could go down that direction in an argument. But we, you know, with the writing piece, You verbalize it through the writing and then I could read it and then we can have a dialogue. Yes. And that was really helpful. Yeah. So, for example, one of the things that I've shared in previous episodes too, in terms of a layer of OCD that has come up, that's always been present for me, but really come up more so after I've become into my 20s and into my 30s. even into my 40s was this concept of just right OCD. So having to leave things feeling just right. And there wasn't necessarily a number or associated with it for me or anything like that. It was just in my own head. I had to leave it feeling just right. ⁓ For instance, I've talked about leaving a conversation or a text message feeling just right and having to do certain things during those conversations and texting in order for me to walk away feeling like it was just right. There are other aspects within our home, ⁓ different things like the cleaning and organizing that we touched on last week. I will do that until it feels just right. ⁓ So it becomes more than just a way to assuage the anxiety like we talked about last week, but then it becomes more of ⁓ now I have to do it. Do I have to touch that a few more times just until it feels just right or until I get it right there? ⁓ When I drove, this is in past tense now because I drive now much more successfully. But when I did drive before in my life, I would have if I passed a person walking, I would have to check my mirrors ⁓ frequently until I couldn't see them anymore or until that moment passed and I felt like it was just right. ⁓ So yeah, there's a lot of those moments of the just right tendencies that I have. And that's very closely related to this feeling of needing perfectionism. And perfectionism is another concept that comes up for a lot of people. But for those of us who have OCD, it's very similar to how it might come up for someone else. And it takes on a life of its own because it takes on a very intrusive, it becomes part of our intrusive thoughts. And it becomes part of our need to engage in the compulsions in order to maintain perfectionism and the fear of losing that perfectionism, the uncomfortability that you feel losing that perfectionism is sometimes too overwhelming. And so I had to take on the idea of letting go of perfectionism. And that's when I started writing more and journaling more was when it when I had to leave things that weren't perfect. Because right now you're going through and you are. You have that passion to write and you are working on writing a couple of books. I am. And which is exciting. It is exciting for you. Yes, for me. Because I mean, it's what you it's your passion. It's what I've had that passion of yours. But idea for a long time. But there are times where you're like, hey, will you read this? you know, the opening or read that or read, know, and I did the first time around, but now I don't because I will, I will read it on the final version. I know. Because you don't necessarily like to leave them sloppy or not just, they have to be just right. Absolutely. Or you rewrite them over and over again. And I'm sure if you were to look at some of your books that you've started, you've done 20, 30 different scenarios of that book or rewritten sections of it. in that fact, yes. And that's the idea of the journaling too, is I had to do an exercise where I just wrote. I couldn't stop. I couldn't go back and correct. I couldn't go back and fix. I couldn't go back and edit. ⁓ I just had to write. Or for example, another night my therapist recommended make your kitchen a complete mess. Everything's out, everything's dirty, everything's messy. Before you touch anything to clean it up, sit down and you write. You write in that room, in the kitchen, amongst all of the dirty and the unkemptness of it and describe how that makes you feel. Like take that opportunity to write and to express all of those feelings before you, while you're sitting in the uncomfortable moment. And so I did. We did an exercise where I wrote in a very messy kitchen, and that was very uncomfortable for me. But I did it because the writing definitely helped and was a strategy. And it still is a strategy in my life, in my OCD journey that is really helpful towards healing. And I'll say that I have now, that's one of those tools in the toolbox that I end up utilizing. for her too, like when she, her anxiety starts to come up, you know, and I see it going in a direction that I cannot engage with you. ⁓ I'll say, go right. I'll direct you to go right because I know I can't engage with you because you're not, and you're necessarily in your conversational mind. Absolutely. I remember one specific time when you did that and... It was, and you could just feel as I wrote and I wrote, I could feel the anxiety kind of melting away. I could feel those intrusive thoughts going where I didn't have to do a compulsion in order for them to go away. Because I could feel it going away with every word that I wrote. And then after I wrote for X amount of minutes, I thought, man, wow, he was really, that was a good call for him to do that. And that's one of the things that I think you and I, talk about a lot is to have that very trusted person who's actively involved in the process, who knows exactly what you should be doing versus shouldn't be doing in the moments of anxiety or intrusive thoughts, who is willing to sit through the exhaustive moments, but to keep the clear head to make sure that you can get to where you need to be. For example, in that moment for us, the writing. ⁓ And it also takes a lot of trust on the person who has OCD too, in order to not get upset or angry about those things and say, you know what? Yes, that's what I'm supposed to be doing. And so I'm going to redirect my attention in that way. And that's one of the things like sitting through the therapy with Stacey as we go through it. I'm learning different tools that I get to put in my toolbox to help work with you. as you are going through OCD outside of ⁓ our therapy sessions. And it's something that continues to continue to have to work on. It's a daily battle. I'm not gonna say struggle because I think we're beyond struggle now. We are, yes. And I'm not even gonna say even a battle. It's a daily part of our life anymore that we have to take in ⁓ help manage. You know, it's just like me taking medication in the morning for my blood pressure. That's something I have to do to keep it down. And if I don't, then it's going to go through the roof. it's a maintenance piece for myself and your OCD, us working through the ERP on a daily basis is maintenance. And it might be something very, very small, or it might be something even larger. every day something new slaps us in the face, feels like. with that, we're learning new pieces about each other as we go through it. We are. We definitely are. It's just, the writing has become such a big part of my journey and my healing. And that's been a really big for me to want to share. Again, I shared my empty chair letter a little while ago as well. That became a really significant moment in my treatment process. And so it just, the writing just kind of flowed from there and it just kind of kept flowing. And I also, the guidance of my therapist too, I've... I've been dating all of my entries, my journal entries that I make and I keep them all and I'm very thoughtful and mindful about occasionally going back because when you kind of get frustrated with your own progress or your own self again and think, I slipped or ⁓ I didn't do that well enough or and it's important to have a record of... how far you really have come so you can go back and say, listen, I might have slipped a couple rungs down, but I didn't slide all the way back. There's definitely still growth that's been happening. And I'm going to stop myself here so I can keep climbing the rungs of the ladder to more success. And so to go back and look and read for me personally, that was helpful to say, gosh, wow, that was incredible that I was there and now I'm here. And I have to remind her too. where she was to where she is now. And that's a big piece too, is to, because she can get discouraged. You know, can get discouraged about the progress that you've made through the ERP and your journey. And, you know, yeah, sometimes we might fall back a little bit, but we're not at the bottom of the hill. No. We're definitely three quarters of the way for, you know. Yeah. or 80%, 90 % up the hill. Definitely. Even though you might every now and then slip and fall back down 5%, 10%. Yeah. You're still not at zero. No. And I think that the writing, the grace that I've given myself, the grace that Mark gives me when things don't always go to plan and the OCD takes over in those moments has been a huge part of our growth as well. in our marriage and in this journey, you know, fighting this kind of beast that is OCD. It's even helped us as parenting our kids together. yeah. You you're more present with it. Yes. You know, when we sit down and have conversations with our kids, it's now both of us having a conversation. ⁓ I'm much more present than I ever was and have been. And that also is a really great thought to have too is that once you overcome the intrusive thoughts, all of sudden you can be more present. And I realize now how much I've lost and sometimes that gets me down too. And so I have to remember what the goals are, where the focus is and to give grace on what has been lost, knowing that things are so much better and we're over that. I think that this is a good time in our podcast journey as well to talk about the fact that, you know, the ERP, the therapy completely saved my life. I know that we talked a lot, especially in our first episode, about what prompted our closing of one door, opening another door, essentially. And while I was in business ownership, I had gone to a very dark place ⁓ as the business started struggling and my OCD was getting out of control and it was pretty unmanageable. Because I went to that dark place and I did talk a lot about that in the first episode. ⁓ I did make the decision ⁓ with help from my therapist as well as encouragement from Mark. We did make the decision that the best course of action for me would be to go on medication, which I did. So I have been on medication for several months at this point. ⁓ And while the medication dried the tears, because there was a lot of tears. ⁓ man, y'all tears upon tears, especially late 2024, early 2025. I was drowning in a sea of my own tears and panic attacks every day, tears, panic attacks, ⁓ anxiety that was crippling. ⁓ And so to take away the the acuteness of what that situation was, the meds were the best route to take. So start taking the meds, the meds dried the tears. The meds kind of freed up a little bit of brain space. But the ERP and the OCD therapy, and this journey that I have been on with Mark, and with my therapist and with my my kids, my family, all of it. That is what changed my life. But the meds allowed you to access Yes, they freed up the brain space. Yes, it allowed you to access the therapy. I think if you did not go on medication, for everybody that was also a struggle to talk with her about going on it because as we were talking about going on them, her fear of death was at a 10 and the thought of taking some medication where you might have a negative reaction to it because when you take and read all the side effects of a medication, there's a laundry list of stuff. And in the past, when you've taken other medications, you've had some significant side effects. Yes, I have, but nothing like where my intrusive thoughts go. Like starting a new medication, all of sudden the thought was, it's going to kill me and I'm going to die because I'll be one of the ones that has the negative reaction, et cetera. And so I'm scared to pieces to even take anything. ⁓ So that stopped me for a little while until they finally convinced me because I got to such a dark place. And dark places are not good places. And so I'm grateful that with the support of our therapist and with Mark that I went on the meds, that I stayed that course. I was able to dry the tears. And I was able to free up that brain space. Like Mark said, I was able to activate that part of my brain that was like, OK, now you're ready. Had I stopped there at the medication? No, the OCD would have still run rampant. It would still take in over. It would have still. It was not going to be the end all for me. It was going to be the the thing that allowed my brain to be accepting of what the ERP was going to give me, because the ERP was going to be tough. Yeah. And it was tough. And it still is tough. ⁓ 100 percent. Yes, it is. And but it was the exposures, the constant consistent exposures. The knowledge that uncertainty wasn't the end all the knowledge that I could sit in uncomfortable moments. That is what changed my life. And so this journey, this ERP is what truly saved my life and what truly changed everything. I feel 100 % like a different person than I was certainly a year ago. And I feel much more like a different person than I was five, 10, 20 years ago. ⁓ My brain operates differently now. ERP rewired my brain. I truly believe that. I'm sitting here today on this podcast with Mark telling you all about this because I earnestly believe that ERP rewired my brain so that I can do things differently now. And it has opened up my entire world. And that's why I want to share my story. And that's why I want to tell it to all of you, to share it with all of you, because it's been that impactful. And my hope, and Mark's hope, that we can make a difference for someone else out there listening, that is just the most rewarding thing that we could ever. even imagine. I want other people to feel how you and I feel. Me too. Because it is one of the most extraordinary feelings. when we've been in the other place where we are now, it is absolutely life-changing, life-altering. It's like winning the lottery. We're able to be together and have conversations. And I don't have to sit there and worry about when the next shoe is gonna drop. Because of... whatever check-in you were gonna do or I might not have. checking in. And it wasn't even just the checking in, but that just right piece. Yeah. If I didn't give you that just right response, it turned into a fight. With the checking in, yeah. Yeah. The OCD was overriding your rational thoughts and it was creating turmoil between the two of us. Yes. And we didn't want to go that direction. So the fact that you jumped on board and you were willing to participate in the ERP, the part that you were willing to take the medication to help access the ERP was absolutely a game changer for our relationship. I am doing things now in my life that I can unequivocally say I never thought I would do. It's almost like, you know, no life is a normal life, but it almost feels more normal. It's even better than that. I had a long time ago, basically... won't say given up. That's not really the term I want to use, I had settled, I suppose, with the idea that there were just certain things in my life that I was just never going to do. And I just thought, okay, I can handle that. I can deal with that. And it'll be okay. And it just is what it is. But it was always this little part of my brain that was like, gosh, it's not like you can't do it. It's just that you're scared. and your thoughts are intrusive and you have to then do this very. kind of interesting ritual, you will, of mental compulsions and other compulsions in order to convince yourself that you're okay or to get beyond the anxiety. And I just always thought that that was gonna be my life. mean, I driving was the one piece Driving is a huge one in that category. I always worried about that. Like, you know, here we are a family of one car back then and we're taking and we're- You know, I'm driving everybody everywhere. I know. And I I would think to myself, would happen if something happened to me? How would you get around? And I know now we have Uber and all of that stuff and you could, But even your back then, your your OCD and the fear of death, like I'm not going to get a car with a stranger, I don't know. And because what would happen if they did X, Y and Z to me? Yep. Because they're going to. Right. Because every Uber driver that's out there is going to do something to me. again, and I know we've touched on this on different episodes of our podcast as well, but just hearing that come from Mark, come from you, babe, just, it's so heartbreaking to me that that's how you were feeling and that that's what you were saying to yourself, but couldn't confide in me because goodness gracious, I wasn't going be able to handle that. It's heartbreaking that that's what I was putting onto you and that's how you were feeling. And now I drive. I drive pretty frequently and I drive quite a ways in different times of day. And had you asked me a couple of years ago if I was ever going to be able to do that, I would have said not on your life. And now here I am. And there were parts, you know, before you even started the ERP, you said, I want to start driving. Now, anybody that has a teenager that's getting ready to drive, it was very similar to that again for me and you. Here I am sitting in the passenger seat, you're sitting in the driver's seat, and we're driving around the block. We're driving through our neighborhood. We're not even getting in on the busier streets. It was back way to... go to Starbucks or whatever, we could never just drive out of our neighborhood onto the busy street and go there. Right. You know, and so we did a lot of that practice. I know. Oh, now we can go anywhere. Now we get on the freeways even. Right. You know, and again, the driving is just one of those examples that if you said if if I ever if you asked me if I could do that, I wouldn't have said no way. Something as simple And this is so. of me to even think about, but the idea that you would have, maybe somebody would have said a couple years ago, hey, maybe not put those emojis in that text message. I've been like, no way, how in your life would I ever stop doing that? And now don't do that. I'm very cautious of those kinds of things now. I've almost changed the other direction where I have an issue using them because I know what that has meant in my life. I know that I use those as a compulsion in order to leave something feeling just right. And now I'm comfortable not. It's these little winds and these little situations that come up, the emojis, the driving, et cetera, that had you asked me. I would have said, this is just what I have to do. This is just who I am, what I have to do, and this is just gonna be the way it is. And those wins now are in your journal, in your living document that you have that you can go back and check in on. So I can't wait for another 10 years down the To be able to have you go back and read like your first couple of them. Yeah, absolutely. To see where you were to where you are in 10 years from now. Yeah. Which I can see that being light years. Yes, I hope so. And to have a written record and to be able to reflect on that is truly a gift that now I've given myself. because it is a lot of work. It is a lot of challenges and the road ahead looks and feels long, but to be able to see where I've come and to remember where I was and where I am now. And also just to be able to, again, for me, because I love to write, to be able to write. and really express myself through words on a page has also been very beneficial for me. And as Mark said, for him to read it has been beneficial for him. So again, just another strategy that we were able to use and bring into our home and use in the right way. And you've also brought them into therapy too, to where you share it then too. So it's also that document that helps our therapists learn how to adjust. Treatment strategies. Yes. Based on that too. Yes. Because if I wasn't there, you probably would be not telling 100 % the truth. Okay, all right. Maybe like 95-ish. I would try. 90. Okay. You'd try to sneak out 10 % if not, because you didn't want to live, you didn't want to feel uncomfortable. Right. But at least that document helps as well. Yeah. as we move forward. And that's why we're here, y'all. We're here to share our story and to share what's worked for us and to put it out there in the world and hope that someone's getting something out of it. And we're really excited to hear from you too. So please contact us, let us know that you'd like to share your story. We'd love to have you as a part of this journey on living uncertain with us. Thank you for joining tonight. Yes. Thank you all for living uncertain with us every day. Appreciate you.