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Battleship Potemkin · The Next Reel Film Podcast

• 0:04
  Pete Wright: I'm Pete Wright.
• 0:05
  Andy Nelson: And I'm Andy Nelson.
• 0:07
  Pete Wright: Welcome to the next reel. When the movie ends,
• 0:09
  Andy Nelson: our conversation begins.
• 0:12
  Pete Wright: Battleship Potemkin is over.
• 0:13
  We've had enough rotten meat. Even a dog wouldn't eat this.
• 0:17
  Pete Wright: It could crawl overboard on its own.
• 0:26
  Pete Wright: And that's just a preview of more unfortunate accents coming from me later in the show.
• 0:32
  Andy Nelson: Oh, yeah. And me. I've yeah. Both of us are, yeah, clearly tapping into the same Yeah. The same creative juices.
• 0:44
  Pete Wright: So Battleship Potempkin, Andy. Please set the stage. Why are we talking about this movie at this time?
• 0:50
  Andy Nelson: This is kicking off our new series. So this so far, this season largely, not completely, but largely has been an exploration of the last hundred years of film starting in '9 in 2025 with Ballerina. Then we did 2,000, and we looked at the Ju On series, which started in the year 2000. Then we went to 1975 and looked at some pioneering visions from around the world in 1975. 1950, we did the best actress Oscar race.
• 1:18
  And here, we're ending this run with the cinema centennial, nineteen twenty five's pioneering visions series. And we're gonna be looking at some key silent films from the year 1925. Not, you know, the start of cinema, but certainly early. We're gonna be looking at Battleship Potemkin. We'll be looking at The Big Parade.
• 1:39
  We'll be looking at The Phantom of the Opera. We'll be looking at Seven Chances. We'll be looking at The Gold Rush. And members voted for our member bonus episode, we'll be looking at Ben Hur, a tale of the Christ. So, it should be a really interesting series to kind of jump back this far.
• 1:56
  We've never really had a series that's completely silent films. We've covered a few silent films like in our Fritz Lang series. But this is kind of this is this will be an interesting one to just really dig into what filmmakers were doing in the silent era. Starting with, you know, Sergei Eisenstein, jumping all the
• 2:14
  Pete Wright: way to Russia to talk about Battleship Potemkin. The whole time I'm watching this movie, I'm thinking, who would I like to throw overboard in the in government right now? Wait. This isn't a political
• 2:28
  Andy Nelson: show, sir.
• 2:29
  Pete Wright: But there is a little bit of shot in front of watching these guys throw these these commanders over overboard. That was a little delightful. This movie is crazy.
• 2:38
  Andy Nelson: Yeah. Because you hadn't seen this before. Right?
• 2:40
  Pete Wright: No. Man, come on. But I saw the untouchables. So isn't that the same thing? It's really the same thing.
• 2:45
  Andy Nelson: Well, and and certainly you've seen clips of the Odessa steps. That's what always gets shown. You've seen clips on countless, you know, montages.
• 2:53
  Pete Wright: But I've never seen the whole sequence. Right? These clips do not do it justice. They step on that child repeatedly in close-up. They step on a child.
• 3:05
  Yes. Who's not yeah. This is it's extraordinary. That that Odessa's sepsis sequence is is extraordinary to watch. And and the just action the active nature of the camera, the way the camera moves up and down the stairs as it follows the soldiers.
• 3:19
  I mean, it was really it's horrible. It's horrific. I can understand why countries early on would have banned the movie because of this sequence, but it is truly a feat of cinema to watch. I'm deeply impressed.
• 3:34
  Andy Nelson: And Sergei Eisenstein is an interesting filmmaker. You know, he had been making films for for quite some time in or I shouldn't say quite some time. It's all very early in cinema. But he had been making films and had the opportunity to to make this and use his skills that he had been learning and really kind of the study of montage, which is, you know, this whole theory of montage that the Russians had been studying and figuring out how how can we cut images next to each other that create a new like, you you cut a next to b. Now by cutting those together, you've now created c.
• 4:21
  You've now created a new feeling, a new emotion, whatever it is. And that was a very big part of the early Russian film theory that they had been studying is this work in montage, and Eisenstein is very much one of the key players in that. And you see that on work here. Like, one of the examples often brought up is the shot, the three shots of lion statues that are cut quickly from one to the next to the next. First, it's a lion sleeping, then it's a lion awake, and then it's a lion, like, standing up.
• 4:54
  Pete Wright: Those lion Andy, those lions were terrified. Standing up, that lion had a comically scared look on its face.
• 5:00
  Andy Nelson: They were very cute lions. I'm like, they're not more of lion.
• 5:03
  Pete Wright: That lion that last lion was yeah. He was roaring zoinks is what he was roaring. Anyway, I'm sorry to interrupt you,
• 5:10
  Andy Nelson: please. I but I agree. It is kind of funny. But the but the intention is, like, by cutting those images together at that point in the film, it's representing kind of like the awakening of the people and this revolution. And that's that was the whole study of montage that they were working on at this time.
• 5:29
  And and through films like Strike, which he did the same year, October, Ten Days That Shook the World, he did a few years later, Alexander Nevsky, Ivan the Terrible, you're really starting to see him playing around with some of these some of these tools of how montage and how cutting images next to each other can create entirely new meanings.
• 5:49
  Pete Wright: A a sidebar film history question. When I think of montage, this is not what I think of. When I think of this, I think of editing. Right? Editing for story.
• 6:02
  And montage has evolved to mean something something more discreet. Right? When did that happen?
• 6:10
  Andy Nelson: Was it was it Trey Parker and Matt Stone and that song? No. You're right. Right. No.
• 6:15
  But it's just an evolution of the term. I mean, was always like there were two terms, montage and mise en scene that were the elements of film. Montage is creating meaning by cutting, by putting images next to each other. And that is the basis of editing entirely. It's like, you know, cut it's it can be from cutting a conversation of two people back and forth.
• 6:39
  By doing that, you're emphasizing different emotions, whether it's a close shot or a wide shot or a two shot or over the shoulder, however you're You're you're changing how you approach that as opposed to mise en scene, which is like what you're seeing in the frame. And that would be like a conversation just on a on a oner where you're only just seeing that from one angle for the entire time. And you're no longer creating any additional cinematic meaning by using the edits in the process of that. And so that's the initial meaning of montage and mise en scene. Montage though has kind of evolved to include anytime you're just cutting things together for for a purpose, that is now a montage and hence the song.
• 7:27
  And so it's it kind of came from that, but that's it's just kind of an evolution of kind of like how that word meant, how it changed because of how people started actually creating these types of montages.
• 7:42
  Pete Wright: Yeah. But I which I think is fascinating because I'd I hadn't I I just hadn't considered it in so long that montage started somewhere as a cinematic tool, learning to edit for story in a certain in in this kind of of practiced approach. And and you can really tell. I mean, the the sequence that jumps out for me when they're throwing the doctor, we'll call him RFK, overboard. They cut back to they they do all kinds of wonderful little cuts.
• 8:13
  Like, once he's finally overboard, they cut back to a close-up of the ropes, and his glasses are hanging from the ropes. Like, those sorts of of bits, you realize, oh my goodness. Like, they're learning to do that sort of editing on this film. Right? They're they're learning to master the craft of these these kinds of cutaways and and sequences in this film.
• 8:35
  It's pretty special.
• 8:36
  Andy Nelson: And I think that's one of I mean, that there are many reasons this film stands out, but that's one of the moments that makes this stand out so much is is how much they were cutting. Like, there are a lot of really rapid cuts. Now I just wanna step back real quick and just note that this is a film because over the course of its history, had been banned a number of times and or segments cut out because certain countries said, well, you can't show that in our country or whatever. And over the last century of this film's existence, there have been film preservationists who have worked at trying to fully restore it the way that Eisenstein had initially cut it. Not entirely sure they're getting it exactly right, but thinking that it's pretty close.
• 9:27
  So they think that it this is a close representation of what Eisenstein wanted. But like even in the version I saw, like there was one cut that was all of like, I don't know, probably 10 frames. It was very quick. It might have even been fewer. And so it's, you know, it's it's like early Michael Bay is what we're seeing here.
• 9:48
  I don't know. I I I don't know how much
• 9:50
  Pete Wright: of this is is in its grave.
• 9:53
  Andy Nelson: I know. But but seriously, but even knowing that that it's possible that there are some changes in the way that it was edited, you're still seeing some incredibly fast editing and cuts the way that that Eisenstein chose to tell this story where he's using fast edits to create a rhythm and emphasize the chaos and the carnage, especially on the Odessa steps, but also on the battleship and really kind of emphasize emotions and how we're getting images and stuff like like a clenched fist or things like that that give us an an opportunity to, like, jump in there. And so it's interesting to see how energetic and smart the editing is in this film. And then to think about how once sound came in, filmmakers kind of forgot how to use that tool. And it took them a while to get back to a place where they're like, oh, yeah.
• 10:54
  We can still do these other things. It's just a little more complicated with sound now.
• 10:59
  Pete Wright: Well, I I you know, as the greats have said, if you wanna show a lot of things, have that at once. Remind everyone what's going on, and with every shot, show a little improvement. To show that it all would take too long, it's called a montage. Oh, you need a montage. You're welcome.
• 11:16
  Andy Nelson: Yes. I'm not surprised that that came in here, but there it is.
• 11:21
  Pete Wright: I'm an empty husk if I don't get that in during this conversation. Right. I'm not doing my job on this show. Okay. So the story, it is one of the time.
• 11:35
  The time this movie came out, I mean, man, Lennon had just died the year before. And there was turmoil in the area. And Stalin and Trotsky and others are all vying for control. It is a confusing time to be a citizen of the country which was struggling to find its identity.
• 12:02
  Andy Nelson: Yeah. And as a as a side note, we should just refer people to the death of Stalin. People should check that out. Very funny glimpse into this world. And on the nose.
• 12:15
  Darkly funny. Yeah. Yes. Yeah.
• 12:16
  Pete Wright: Yeah. Yeah. Also, if you wanna hear the real history, look at the Rest is History podcast. They do they just finished a whole series on Lenin and Marx, and it's yeah. I've it's fascinating.
• 12:29
  It's just fascinating. So Timing is perfect. Timing is perfect for sure.
• 12:35
  Andy Nelson: Well, this is interesting because this happened on the twenty eighth or this film, because it was the twentieth anniversary of the first Russian revolution in nineteen o five, they actually had a commission who wanted to do a number of different events dedicated to that first Russian revolution. And one of the things that they wanted to do is create quote, a grand film be shown in a special program with an oratory introduction, musical, solo, and orchestral, and a dramatic accompaniment based on especially written text. A whole script was written. Eisenstein was hired to actually do this whole thing. And they realized I mean, the script was much more expansive.
• 13:19
  It featured the Russo Japanese war, Armenian Tatar Tatar massacres of nineteen o five to nineteen o six, revolution revolutionary events in Saint Petersburg, and the Moscow uprising. So they were doing a ton of these stories. He realized, like, if we do all of this, this there's no way it's gonna hit the deadline. And so he opted to, like, chop everything out and only do this one portion of the story. And that's what we ended up getting so that they could have it in time for the screening, which took place late in 1925.
• 13:54
  And so it was created with the intent to celebrate again that first Russian revolution. There is very much a sense of propaganda with the film. It wasn't like out and out. It needs to be propagandist. But the intention of the entire thing, we are looking back and we're celebrating this first Russian revolution.
• 14:18
  They're changing facts. They're doing a lot of things in this story to create something that is more inspirational. And a big part of it was that they did not want to have a central protagonist. They wanted the masses, the battleship, all to be kind of the protagonist of the story. With all of that in mind, like, how does that play when you're watching this film?
• 14:41
  Does it feel propagandist? Does it feel like I don't know who I'm supposed
• 14:45
  Pete Wright: to be following? Well, I was actually wondering that the whole time and just waiting for that question to come in. Andy, who is the protagonist? Joke's on you. There really isn't one.
• 14:55
  There's no one hero because the hero is the populace, and that true revolution comes when the people stand together. I found the politics of this movie sincere. Right? And and that, I think, is what makes it feel not like a propaganda film per se. I feel like Eisenstein believes this stuff authentically, and this sort of wish fulfillment, it it's a little bit Tarantino.
• 15:25
  Right? It's a little bit like we're gonna we're gonna do a dopamine frenzied alternative ending to the real Potemkin mutiny. In real life, the Potemkin goes to Romania, and the crew surrenders. But in lore, right, propagated by this film, it is a symbol of defiance and of authentic sort of rise of the people. And I think that is I think there's a lot to be said for it.
• 15:52
  These ordinary workers turning against their imperial oppression is is delightfully sincere in this movie.
• 16:01
  Andy Nelson: Well, and also, you didn't mention in in some of the other things that they changed, that, yes, they do mutiny because of the rotten food that they are served. Yes. That's that all speaks to exactly why they revolt. And they you know, there is there are elements going on in Odessa that they're fighting against. And they do fire upon the theater where the higher ups are meeting and they miss, which I think is funny because they certainly don't miss here.
• 16:33
  But, again, the little propagandist changes to history. They're They're gonna celebrate the fact that look us look at us standing up and and fighting back. And so I think that's interesting.
• 16:44
  Pete Wright: But but I I mean, I I think it's interesting watching this movie. Like, at the time so I watched Tarantino do a movie like bastards. Right? And I know how history played out, and I know that that's a fever dream. Right?
• 17:04
  And it's just good movie. And there's a lot about it that I appreciate. Wish wish wish fulfillment. That's what this movie is. Right?
• 17:12
  This is wish fulfillment that they hit the theater, that they get off, and that they unify the final the the the big ending of this movie is that the military unifies in its effort to sort of take control of its own destiny at sea. And it's it's it's joyful. I wonder, given communication at the time and Internet speeds in 1925 were terrible, I wonder just how real this felt to people even just twenty years after the real the real thing happened. Like, I wonder if people saw this and and this is how lore became so cemented into the the history, the populace.
• 17:53
  Andy Nelson: Well, and that's always the case because, I mean, you see that even in things like social network, you know. It's the nature of film is there's the sense of of lying, but people don't really know the backstory of Mark Zuckerberg. So as far as I'm concerned, yeah, he really did do this whole thing because he had a failed date. You know, it's like the same thing. And and you kind of buy into it, and it does make you you're right.
• 18:18
  It does make you wonder like how accessible was news of what actually happened to the people who were living in 1925 about what had gone on in nineteen o five. Did they realize all of these different things? Or was it something where where it was a little bit of that wish fulfillment where they're like, hell yeah. We because again, this is, as Lennon said, this was a dress rehearsal for the Russian revolution of nineteen seventeen. And these are people who are living in that world, and are they saying, hell, yeah.
• 18:51
  We know how to stand up and fight. And it's it is that celebratory view looking at things in a very positive way.
• 19:00
  Pete Wright: Hell, yeah. We're gonna actually hit the theater this time. That's right. I think it was the that was the old tagline. Great.
• 19:09
  So all of that, I mean, just this this sort of art as propaganda. Yeah. I mean, I guess, in its strictest sense, to get back to your question, in its strictest sense, this is this feels this can feel propagandistic. But I think Eisenstein is making a a piece that speaks more to his his experience, his his truth, for lack of a better word. I don't like using that word, but feels like he believes this very, very much.
• 19:34
  Andy Nelson: I I do agree. I think that he believes this, but I do think that he sees the message as being an important one. And and, you know, honestly, it's the sort of message that can apply throughout time. It is kind of a universal message about if you're being oppressed, if you're if the system is is coming down upon you and and telling you eat this borscht made of rotting meat because it's just bugs. You can just wipe it off.
• 20:04
  It's not really anything that's gonna make you sick. And they are, not letting you have your memorial funeral, all of these different things. If if the system has become so oppressive that you need to revolt, then do it. Like, this is it's it's a timeless story in that sense. I can see it being propagandistic for the 1925 Russia looking at all this, but it does feel like he was making something that was meant to just evoke remember the remember the November 5 sort of mentality.
• 20:37
  Like, always just remember that there's time and a place to stand up against the oppressor. Right? And to the point where he actually wanted this film to be rescored every twenty years with a new set a new music to keep it current and to keep it fitting the times. And I think that's a really interesting view toward the longevity of this message that he saw it as something that could potentially continue to speak to people through history. It's a funny time.
• 21:09
  This is my last point on this specific year because I
• 21:12
  Pete Wright: think it really, really matters that that this movie happens on the heels of Marx pre Lenin, Stalin, Lenin, and et al. Because Marx Karl Marx is a guy. I just have this sense that Karl Marx is is saying, god, man, why was I so misunderstood? Like, these people, come on. Like, he is he is the model for the emoji face palm.
• 21:41
  I think that's Karl Marx in my head because he as a philosopher, as a thinker, he's so interesting to me and so sad that so much of what he what he wrote about, right, what his his the this idea of exploitation of the masses is is just an equation that he hadn't quite solved yet to make it all work in a way that couldn't be exploited so horrifically and distorted so horrifically by authoritarian leaders to come. And this movie is almost a love letter to the to the story of exploitation being overthrown that I think Marx would have really appreciated. I don't know. Missed it by that much. That much.
• 22:30
  That's exactly it. That's the subtitle of this movie too. Marx missed it by
• 22:35
  Andy Nelson: the bunch. Oh my gosh. Oh my gosh. Well, okay. Well, let's talk through the different sequences.
• 22:43
  We the story is broken up into five segments, and we start with the the reason for the revolt. Act one is called Men and Maggots, which is a a fantastic sequence where we meet some sailors, we meet some officers. One of the first things that we see an officer do as he's walking through the all the, like, the sleeping room with all the sailors in the hammocks, is he, like, bumps into he bumps into one of the guys, and then proceeds to, like, just, like, smack him. Like, smack the hell out of him because this guy was, like, got in his way when he was trying to walk by him or something. And, like, that's one of the first triggers because that's kind of like what awakens, Vekulnachuk, who becomes kind of the voice of these people as they as we move into the segment where they're shouting about let's not eat the meat and everything.
• 23:36
  But that's the first moment that we have. And this and then he kind of, like, tells the sailor, hey. It's okay. It's okay. Well, no.
• 23:43
  That's when he wakes up, he says, comrades, the time has come when we too must speak out. Why wait? All of Russia has risen. Are we to be the last? And so there's already rumblings afoot amongst the people, amongst these soldiers as they're realizing these officers.
• 24:00
  It it I mean, this little tiny gesture of an officer kind of hitting this soldier was kind of like the last straw. Right? Like, it's just like you guys are just cruel.
• 24:12
  Pete Wright: Yeah. Right. Do you want to like really go into the detail of the meat though?
• 24:18
  Andy Nelson: Yeah. Because that's the next morning when now they're they're looking at the meat, and we get that fantastic close-up shot of all the maggots crawling on the slab of meat.
• 24:28
  Pete Wright: There are multiple close-up shots, and that's it's the it's the last one that I think is so delightful in especially given our discussion of montage. We'll talk about that in a second. But the the slow it it's actually not slow, but I'll I'll use the term sort of from from the perspective of kind of narrative pacing, the slow revolution that builds on the ship as people they they just sort of wake up, and they realize that their lives are different today than they were before, that they're angry, that they they are hostile, that they feel like they are taken advantage of. All of that happens over a space of of a short amount of time, but I do love just how effective that building animosity is in this group without necessarily a central protagonist. You feel that this is a navy.
• 25:21
  It was already on edge, and it has just been pushed over. And they are waking up to the fact that they feel different than they did before, that they have power. They have agency that they did not have before. And that becomes scary to those in power on the ship.
• 25:40
  Andy Nelson: Yeah. Who all they have is their position. They're relying on the military, just the militaristic rank system of I'm higher than you, so you have to listen to me and do what I say. Like, that's all they have. And there aren't that many officers.
• 25:57
  I think we see maybe less than a dozen who actually get thrown overboard. And there are, you know, potentially a 100 men on the ship. And yet, that's the design of these systems is the military should be able to run because you have these few people who, when they're strong leaders, the rest of the people will follow. We've hit a point where they no longer want to follow them. And that's really what happens here as these sailors refuse to eat the meat, and then the the captain tells everybody to get out of the way, and they make the cook make this borscht with this meat.
• 26:31
  Even the cook is like, I don't know what the hell I'm He's like, this is awful. Nobody will eat the borscht. Then you have kind of the the end of that vibe when you have soldiers cleaning the dishes. And you have the one look at the plate, and around the rim of the plate is inscribed, give us this day our daily bread. And he thinks about it and then just smashes it on the floor.
• 26:56
  And that's like the moment. This is like we have broken, and now it's come to a head, which all of that is is brought up moments after that as we jump into act two. Anything else on act one, or are we just gonna jump into act two?
• 27:09
  Pete Wright: Yeah. No. I just just the last shot where they throw RFK overboard, who was the doctor who says
• 27:15
  Andy Nelson: Well, we haven't gotten to him him getting thrown overboard.
• 27:17
  Pete Wright: Oh, no. That's later. That's right.
• 27:19
  Andy Nelson: That's okay. I think that's fair. Yeah. Yep. Right.
• 27:21
  Pete Wright: Right. So now now we move into drama on the quarter deck.
• 27:25
  Andy Nelson: Drama. Yeah. And this is where it's shocking. Like, the the way that the military's decisions work are shocking to me. And this really did happen on the boat, on the real battleship at Tempkin.
• 27:38
  The only real difference is that they put the tarp under the men because they didn't want the blood to stain the deck. In the film, they actually kind of almost more horrifying. They take the men who refuse to eat the borscht, and they drape a tarp over them, and then they order the troops to to shoot them all. And it's just like taking all the humanity out of it. It's just it's shocking.
• 28:03
  It's shocking the way that that plays.
• 28:04
  Pete Wright: The tarp over them, is it because they don't wanna be, like, splattered? That's gross. Why do you think they put the tarp over them so they can't
• 28:13
  Andy Nelson: Well, that took it to a different place than I was thinking.
• 28:16
  Pete Wright: I thought it was see it coming. It's like blindfolding.
• 28:19
  Andy Nelson: But also so that the the people who are shooting them don't have to say, oh my god. I just killed Vladimir. Yeah. Yeah. That's fair.
• 28:27
  I get it. That's that's what how I was interpreting it. So it's actually even worse on the real battleship, the Temkin, because because they did know they killed Vladimir. It's just a tarp under them saying, I'm about to kill Vladimir Vladimir, but at least his blood won't be on the deck. I'm I'm sorry, Vladimir.
• 28:43
  Pete Wright: I've just he's been killed several times just in our conversation alone.
• 28:46
  Andy Nelson: I know. Poor Vladimir.
• 28:48
  Pete Wright: It's rough. So yes. So that is a that's yet another data point in the breaking point of the men.
• 28:53
  Andy Nelson: Right. And then this is where we have Valunichuk pleading for the firing squad to stop and to not do this. And they listen to him. And so clearly, we've hit a point where people have now shifted. And these these, sailors and the soldiers listen.
• 29:11
  They get the people get out from under the tarp, and now they take control of the ship. They also, they start throwing officers overboard. My favorite bit is the ship's priest who I thought was an insane man when he came out. I'm like, who's the old crazy man with all the hair? Oh, he's wearing a cross.
• 29:28
  I guess he's their priest. I don't know. I'm like, is this what Russian priests look like? Massacre. It's hair.
• 29:35
  Wow. I wasn't sure if that was also something they were saying about, like, their depiction of of a priest. Was there a little insane? Because I mean, he had kind of like just an insane massive hair. He looked pretty pretty crazed, I think, is a way to describe him.
• 29:54
  He was. And and perfectly appropriate for a country that's noted notably atheist. Right? Like, there's that let's make the priest the lunatic fringe. And what I guess that was a question that I had because I'm not sure when that happened.
• 30:08
  Like, up to this point had it been Christian? Is is it like around these revolutions, is this the point where they make that change?
• 30:15
  Pete Wright: That's a good question. Yeah. It seems weird to have him on the ship if it's not if they're atheist at all.
• 30:21
  Andy Nelson: Like, that's what I was wondering. I'm like, maybe that's what they're saying about Christianity and their beliefs is that it's just a bunch of crazed lunatics. You know? Because he's kind of depicted that way. If so, might be a little on the nose.
• 30:34
  Yeah.
• 30:35
  Pete Wright: Right. Okay. Quick research. Look what I did. Re field research on the fly.
• 30:40
  Atheism was absolutely a big part of the Soviet Union in the nineteen twenties, both politically and culturally. The Russian Orthodox Church, of which this guy was a member, wasn't just a faith tradition. It was a part of the machinery of the state. And the revolution against the czar was a part of a much larger ideological campaign to overthrow every form of old world authority, including the church. So it does make it it makes a lot of sense.
• 31:11
  Make him a lunatic who's literally sleeping through the revolution.
• 31:16
  Andy Nelson: Yeah. Right. Right. Fascinating. That's really interesting.
• 31:20
  And this is where also so people are getting thrown overboard. I can't remember which I know the doctor gets thrown overboard. I'm trying to remember who is the one who ends up killing Vikolnichuk. Like, he shoots Vikolnichuk in the back. Vikolnichuk falls and lands on the the the rigging and dies there.
• 31:38
  I can't remember which person that is. Anyway, one of the officers officers kills kills Vikolnichuk. Vikolnichuk. That's the end of this act, and it's kind of like the big moment that we have here. They've successfully and they've taken over battleship Potemkin, which just as a side note, the fantastic double barrel guns that it has makes for some beautiful shots.
• 31:59
  So dramatic. Yeah. It's it's just beautiful. Then we get to act three, a dead man calls for justice, and this is where it arrives at the Port Of Odessa. They take Vekulnachuk's body ashore, and they create a display for him with a sign on his chest saying for a spoonful of borscht.
• 32:15
  And this is what, like, all the citizens start coming around here very sad about the sacrifice, and they really, they're also pissed off and upset against the czar, the government, and they it really starts you can feel the energy of the revolt starting. One interesting moment in here is you have somebody who says, let's bring down the Jews, something like that. And everybody kind of like beats this guy down. And that was another interesting moment. I'm like, oh, okay.
• 32:46
  Is this another element of what was going on at the time? Because I know there were pogroms that were going on and a lot of Jewish people ended up getting killed during these revolutions. And I wasn't sure if that was something Eisenstein was saying about it or just was putting something in as a little historical note that, yes, this was also there.
• 33:05
  Pete Wright: Yeah. This was the May maybe the slow churn of antisemitism that we deal with later in history. And and, you you know, the Russian part of of that history, the Soviet part of that history comes later. But it is interesting that it that it rears its head here.
• 33:22
  Andy Nelson: Yeah. I thought so. It was it was an interesting little note to have. And we we had the elements that had been going on on the ship and the leadership that led to them overthrowing the officers and taking over the the ship. Now we have it's just a symbolic element of all of that on the shore of this body lying here that becomes the symbol for the people to also want to stand up and revolt.
• 33:50
  Like, we don't see the same thing happen on the shores of these people being oppressed. We just know that there has been oppression because this is the system. We've seen it on the boat. We assume it's happening here, but this person is enough for these people to want to stand up. They welcome the soldiers.
• 34:06
  They give the soldiers food, but it also ends up bringing the Cossacks, the police force.
• 34:13
  Pete Wright: I I like the way you put that because I think structurally, it makes so much sense. We already have the shorthand for oppression. It's taken place on the ship. We don't need it anymore because we just get to know this is the fabric of their reality. And let's go ahead and move on to retaliation, which is the, you know, bringing the Cossacks in.
• 34:33
  The Cossacks who are completely depersonalized. Right? You see so many boots and guns and boots and backs, and they move in absolute precision. They are the representation of the machine of tyranny. Right?
• 34:49
  Like, they are the machine of authoritarianism. And we don't need to see who they are. We just know that they represent that sort of hate of the people, disdain of the people, and and action against the people.
• 35:01
  Andy Nelson: Yeah. It's it's a powerful sequence, and it really does feel like the calm before the storm. You know? You really feel the the the rumblings and everything. And that leads to act four, the Odessa steps, which we've talked about already.
• 35:14
  But this is like the central sequence of this film that is, it's brilliantly crafted together.
• 35:21
  Pete Wright: Shot shot in one take out here. I'm pretty sure
• 35:24
  Andy Nelson: that's true. One take. They just One take. Cut it all up really.
• 35:27
  Pete Wright: That's what they call him. One take Eisenstein.
• 35:31
  Andy Nelson: These Cossacks are they form a line at the top of these steps. These are the Odessa Steps, which I think now they've renamed the Potemkin Stairs. All these people, all these citizens, unarmed note, nobody is armed here. Nobody is armed. You have old people.
• 35:49
  You have amputees who are on the steps. You have children. You have mothers. Really, there's no one here. Like, all the soldiers, they're all back on the boat.
• 35:59
  Right? They all, like, welcomed all these people. They've these people all boated out to them, gave them tons of food. It's just civilians. But because they're en masse in this particular location, and because of this relationship that they have with these mutineering soldiers, these Cossacks advance down the stairs, and they just start opening fire.
• 36:21
  They walk down, open fire, kill a bunch of people. Walk down, open fire, kill a bunch of people. One of the first people we see killed is that little kid that you talked about that gets trampled repeatedly. It's shocking.
• 36:35
  Pete Wright: There are there are a couple of sort of hero people that we that Eisenstein focuses on the kid, the kid's mom. There is the amputee who is moving around on the stairs bunch. Those are some of the standouts. And then obviously, the babe the mom of the baby carriage with the baby carriage, that stands out at the very end of the sequence.
• 36:55
  Andy Nelson: And the old woman with the wearing the Pince Nez. Yep. Absolutely. She's she is
• 36:59
  Pete Wright: the generic response shot to the trauma. Whenever anything happens, it comes back to her, and she's like, oh my god.
• 37:06
  Andy Nelson: Well and she's one of the people who's trying to say, let's go up and talk to them and tell them, like, we're not armed. Let's just say, please stop. And so she's trying to lead a group of people back up the stairs to stop these people from just shooting everybody, which doesn't go so well.
• 37:22
  Pete Wright: But there is no reasoning with, with the authoritarian regime. There is no reasoning. And and this this sequence, the end of this sequence when the mom comes up the stairs alone with her trampled child in her arms, and the response of the firing line is to kill her, is the horrifying punch line to this entire sort of nationalist sequence violence.
• 37:50
  Andy Nelson: Yeah. And that's just the start, because then again, you have the the the mother with the baby carriage who gets shot and hits, falls and hits her baby carriage, which then is the famous shot of it rolling down the stairs.
• 38:01
  Pete Wright: Which we never see resolved.
• 38:02
  Andy Nelson: Well, at the you do see it tip. It kind of tips up, and then it cuts. And that's like, we don't get to see, but we can assume what's happened because it tips. And that's right before the old woman with the Pince Nez gets shot through the eye. It's an incredibly violent sequence.
• 38:19
  And I don't think as you said, in the clips that have played in various montages and and whatnot through about film history, it never emphasizes just the like, as much violence as there really is here. And it's pre code. I mean, obviously, it's not really they're not using the Hays code in Russia, but still, it's pre code. So a lot of that stuff is just they were just showing it as this sort of stuff was. And it's horrifying, and it's really frightening as to, like, just how brutal the whole thing really became.
• 38:52
  Pete Wright: Well, and again, from the perspective of the story, it brings us to this feeling of of just rage against the state. Right? Once you see this kind of dehumanization, it makes you want to fight back. And so the movie gives us that opportunity to feel it.
• 39:13
  Andy Nelson: Yeah. It really does. It shows us, through all of this, a sense of just feeling enraged at everything going on. And you can see why this has become so used in homages. And I still think the best one that I have, seen is Terry Gilliam's use of it with the oppressive system in Brazil as they are marching through the halls of the Ministry of Justice.
• 39:39
  It just it it speaks to the nature of just how terrifying and and overwhelming these these forces can be, and it really, you know, puts you in the place of siding with those who are fighting against this sort of brutality. And that's what we get here. And it's because again, at the end of this, Potemkin, realizing what's going on, they fire at the theater and take down the theater where military leaders are meeting. And again, in the film, they blow it up.
• 40:10
  Pete Wright: I have to say that was a very effective sequence of just effects. The explosions, the destruction, I I found it very believable.
• 40:20
  Andy Nelson: Yeah. And it's just all of that, I think, plays exceptionally. And we haven't even mentioned, like, the moments of that I even found inspiring. But when they raised the flag on the ship and Eisenstein hand painted that flag in every one of its 141 frames, I think, that it appears, he hand painted it red. So that it really is I mean, it hits when that thing comes up and you just in a black and white image, you just see this bright bright red flag.
• 40:51
  It's inspiring. Like, felt that. It's it's amazing to see how that usage can especially with everything going on, every time we would cut to that flag waving over the the Potemkin, it is inspiring, and it gives me hope that they are going to, you know, find a way through all of this.
• 41:10
  Pete Wright: I find it so interesting that that flag I totally agree with you, first of all, that that that the bright red is such a representation of the people and the people's rise to agency in this experience of the movie, and that that color was so quickly co opted as the color of the state. Right? As the color of the authoritarian, which is what a sad testament to the people's uprising.
• 41:40
  Andy Nelson: Yeah. Truly. That's how things go though. Take they take a symbol and they find a way to reuse it in their own way. Yeah.
• 41:50
  Take it back. Yeah. The last act is one against all. It's very much a a three musketeers sort of thing because you have all against one, one against all repeated throughout the film. Now you have the sailors of the Potemkin.
• 42:03
  They go leave the port to face the fleet, but they're flying the red flag. They're getting ready to fight, but hoping that what has gone on on their ship, the mutiny, is going to go on on the rest of them. And sure enough, no one else is no one fires upon them. They realize that all of the boats have been taken over, and it's a sea of solidarity as the Potemkin sails out to sea. And that's an inspiring way to end this story where you have this uprising that has led to some horrific, horrific deaths.
• 42:38
  But through all of it, it has created something that can't be stopped. And I think that's the power of the of what the story is. And the way, again, Eisenstein chose to tell it where we're just following the masses. We're following the ship. We're not following a Vekolaunchuk or or any of the other individual soldiers as a an example.
• 42:59
  It's really a story about the people. Yeah. Right. I
• 43:04
  Pete Wright: I I guess we'll talk about it in sequels and remakes. Because I just wanna know how long did it last. How long did this this the piece of the people, the the unification of the people last? Because if I know anything, we can screw stuff up pretty fast.
• 43:24
  Andy Nelson: Yes. Isn't that the truth? Isn't that the truth? No. It's it's a fascinating film.
• 43:28
  It really it really stands out as a unique example of how cinema can use the tools. And I think that's what I find so exciting about watching this. It doesn't feel dated in the slightest. Like, this film, it has just energy. It moves.
• 43:46
  It's a it's an interesting gripping tale. And I just think that it plays really well. And I don't know. I had a great time and great time revisiting it. Yeah.
• 43:56
  Me too. Me too. Out of curiosity, with all of the different scores, do you remember do you did you pay attention to, like, which version you watched as far as which score you ended up listening to? I don't know which score I listened to,
• 44:09
  Pete Wright: but I know you you have an opinion. I I listened to the I
• 44:13
  Andy Nelson: rented it from Apple. Gotcha.
• 44:17
  Pete Wright: So I guess I can check.
• 44:18
  Andy Nelson: I am gonna assume that, like, one of the main ones that that is out there right now is the rescored version of the original score by Edmund Meisel. I think that an orchestral version of that was created in, the eighties. I can't actually, I can't remember. But I think that that's a score that generally is used with it. I went back and listened to sequences of it with that original score to hear how well it worked, and it works really well.
• 44:48
  I'm gonna say because they're also integrating like sound effects like gunshots and and blasts from the cannons and things like that into the score. Oh, I
• 44:56
  Pete Wright: definitely didn't have all that stuff.
• 44:58
  Andy Nelson: Oh, okay. Interesting. I but what I watched is the actual the Pet Shop Boys, Neil Tennant and Chris Lowe, in 2004 with an orchestra. They composed a version of the score and have played it a number of times on live performances and everything, and it's since been released. And I listened to their version, which is really interesting because the way that Eisenstein described it, hoping that there would be a new score every twenty years, I was curious how in kind of a modern age would people view that.
• 45:34
  And it was kind of exciting to see, and it was interesting to Pet Shop Boys, of all people, to hear what they would do and how they would interpret it. And I liked it. It played it played well. So Cool. Very cool.
• 45:47
  Lots of fun.
• 45:48
  Pete Wright: Is it and so was the was the movie actually released with their score, or did you have to do the
• 45:52
  Andy Nelson: thing where you play it in silent and just play the score behind it? It has been released on disc, I think, by the BBC. I can't remember who it was who released their version. I couldn't find their version streaming anywhere. And so I did play the score and listen and watch the movie at the same time.
• 46:09
  Okay. BFI, they're the ones who issued the a Blu ray with that one. Nice. So, I mean, it's a fantastic movie. I had a great time revisiting it, and I'm glad to have you finally actually see the film.
• 46:22
  Pete Wright: I know. Check this one off the list. I love it. Had a blast.
• 46:26
  Andy Nelson: Indeed. Indeed. Indeed.
• 46:27
  Pete Wright: Oh, I didn't even talk about what I love so much about that shot when they do RFK over. The next cut after the glasses is the meat again. It's a close-up of meat, and the maggots are falling off of it as he's falling into the sea. And I thought that was that is touching.
• 46:45
  Andy Nelson: That speaks to a fun way to use the editing to emphasize that sort of thing. Right. Like yeah. I love it. Really, really great.
• 46:55
  Okay. Well, then we will be right back. But first, our credits.
• 47:12
  Pete Wright: The next reel is a production of True Story FM, engineering by Andy Nelson, music by Mr Mustache, Matthias Forster, Ace, Oriole Novella, and Eli Catlin. Andy usually finds all of the stats for the awards and numbers at d-numbers.com, boxofficemojo.com, indb.com, and wikipedia.org. Find the show at truestory.fm, and if your podcast app allows ratings and reviews, please consider doing that for our show.
• 47:51
  Pete Wright: Comrades of cinema, hear me. The time has come to rise against disorganization. No more half remembered movies. No more wondering where you saw that one actor that one time before. The revolution has a name, and that name is Letterboxd.
• 48:10
  Here, every film you watch is recorded, rated, and remembered. Your lists are your manifestos, your reviews, your call to arms. Together, we march through film history frame by frame, side by side. And for those ready to take command, Letterbox Pro awaits, ad free with glorious statistics and analytics. Join the uprising now.
• 48:37
  Use the code next real for 20% off your pro or Patreon membership. Yes. Even for renewals. Comrades, the cinema belongs to the people. Log your battles, raise your stars, and let the revolution of film logging begin.
• 49:00
  Pete Wright: Sequels and remakes, Andy. Do we get a Potemkin two?
• 49:03
  Andy Nelson: Back in action. Yeah. You know, I I don't have any sequels, sadly. I we already talked about the scores. There's a lot of versions of of the film with many, many different scores over the decades.
• 49:16
  And, you know, I'd annoyingly, I don't think any release, on Blu ray or four k has issued it where they just tried to collect as many of the scores as possible. It would be great to just have a version with like all the different scores so you can just hear everything about. But there interestingly was a version of this story told earlier, actually from France. In France, they made a film called Revolution in Russia or Revolution in Odessa, depending on what you're seeing. Made actually the year that this came out, nineteen o or may the year that it happened, nineteen o five, directed by Lucien Nongueh Nongueh?
• 49:53
  I'm not sure how to say that last name. It was the first film to to show this mutiny. And, yeah, twenty years before Eisenstein made his version. Wow. Crazy.
• 50:04
  Yeah. Pretty interesting. How to do an awards season? You know, there weren't film awards going on back in 1925. There are a few other things that are interesting worth talking about.
• 50:16
  One, the online film and television awards in 2013 inducted the film into their hall of fame. So that's an important thing to note. Sight and Sound magazine, they started in 1952 doing the every ten years, asking critics and filmmakers about their favorite films, and Battleship Potemkin in 1952 is number four. Every decade from '62 to 2002, it had been in the top 10. In 2012, it ended up at number 11.
• 50:42
  In 2022, it ended up at number 54. A number of directors have said it's in list of their favorite films, including Orson Welles, Michael Mann, Paul Greengrass. Billy Wilder had it listed as his number one. Last but not least, I thought this was interesting. It's on a list called the Brussels 12.
• 50:59
  This was at the World Expo in 1958 in Brussels. They actually asked thousands of critics and filmmakers from all over the world to do a poll. It was the first time that they did a poll like this. They got nominations, ended up from a 117 critics from 26 different nations, listing what they said were their 12 most important films in in film history. This was number one.
• 51:27
  Goldrush is number two. Bicycle Thieves, number three. Passion of of Joan of Arc, number four. Grand Illusion, Greed, Intolerance, Mother, Citizen Kane, Earth, The Last Laugh, and Doctor Cabinet of Doctor. Caligari came in number 12.
• 51:43
  And and then they also asked them to pick a number one. The all the filmmakers who is the jury, they opted to not include or not to pick their number one, indicating that Battleship Potemkin, Grand Delusion, Mother, Passion of Jodor Jodorvark, Gold Rush, and Bicycle Sea Thieves all still hold value to young filmmakers. Fantastic. I guess the others don't, but I don't know.
• 52:06
  Pete Wright: Yeah. They don't. They're all trash films.
• 52:08
  Andy Nelson: But, yeah, it's an interesting an interesting thing to, like, do this list at one of the world's fairs. That's very cool. Yeah.
• 52:16
  Pete Wright: And now we bring you our segment, the numbers, brought to you by why are we doing this still?
• 52:27
  Andy Nelson: Andy? Because you love to laugh. This is why we do it. 100 year old films, man. I tell you, I walked into honestly, I walked into the series not expecting to be able to find anything.
• 52:40
  So I guess the big surprises as I go through this will be if I find anything. This film was released 12/05/1925 or maybe 12/21/1925. Then again, it could be 12/24/1925 after a premiere in Paris, 11/12/1925. Hard to tell exactly when it prepared. It could have been all of those dates.
• 53:01
  No one really knows. From what I can tell, it didn't play in The United States until 12/05/1926, about a year later. And that's all I have. Outstanding.
• 53:13
  Pete Wright: Could do this all day. Well, I had a blast with this movie. I'm so glad it's on the list. And I know you are doing the the good work by filling in some holes on my letterboxed diary. So I appreciate you by for putting this on the list.
• 53:30
  Andy Nelson: Yeah. I'm glad that we had a chance to to dig into this one and just really kind of explore explore this movie a little bit. So, and I'm I'm glad to have checked it off your list. I think it's a I think it's it's worthy of list checking.
• 53:45
  Pete Wright: Yeah. For sure.
• 53:46
  Andy Nelson: Yeah. Alright. Well, that is it for today's conversation, everybody. Next week, we are looking at King Vidor's The Big Parade. We'll be right back for our ratings.
• 53:57
  Have you heard of The big parade?
• 53:58
  Pete Wright: Yeah. I've heard of it. Not seen it. Guess what? I haven't seen it.
• 54:02
  Andy Nelson: It's one it's the one on this list I have never seen before, so I'm curious to check that out. Awesome. Should be interesting.
• 54:26
  Andy Nelson: Comrades, brothers and sisters, lend me your ears. For too long, we have been oppressed by the tyranny of bad cinema. For too long, we have been forced fed a steady diet of mindless drivel, of films without substance, without soul, but no more. Today, we take a stand. Today, we join the revolution.
• 54:49
  And our weapon in this fight, the Next Real Film Podcast. With a membership to The Next Real, you will have access to a treasure trove of cinematic knowledge, early access to episodes, ad free listening, exclusive bonus content. These are the tools of our revolution. And it's not just The Next Real. Cinemascope, the film board, movies we like, sitting in the dark, they're all a part of the same movement, all fighting for the same cause.
• 55:18
  But this isn't just about perks, comrade. This is about the power of cinema. The power to educate, to inspire, to change the world. With the next reel as our guide, we will learn to see films not just as entertainment, but as art, as a reflection of our lives, our struggles, our triumphs. So join us, brothers and sisters.
• 55:40
  Join the cinema revolution. Head to truestory.fm/join and sign up. $5 a month or $55 a year. A small price to pay for the chance to be part of something bigger than ourselves. The bourgeoisie of bad cinema, they think they can keep us down forever, but they are wrong.
• 55:59
  With the next reel, we have the power. The power of knowledge, the power of community, the power of revolutionary cinema. The next reel, truestory.fm/joy. Long live the revolution.
• 56:31
  Pete Wright: Let's unboxed. Andyletterbox.com/thenextreel. That's where you can find all of our reviews and ratings for the movies past. What are you gonna do on a five star scale and a a one heart scale? What are you gonna do for this movie?
• 56:46
  Andy Nelson: I really enjoy this film. I forget how engaging it is, how how how it moves, how it just the energy and everything in it. And just like, it's it's kind of a magical film to watch. I'm gonna give it five stars on a heart. I really, really enjoy this.
• 57:01
  Pete Wright: I'm gonna give it five stars too, Andy. That would surprise you, I bet. I'm gonna get but maybe a
• 57:05
  Andy Nelson: half a heart. Psych. You can't do that
• 57:07
  Pete Wright: on Letterboxd. It's full hearts only. Yes. I'm giving it a heart.
• 57:11
  Andy Nelson: Excellent. Well, that will average out to five stars and a heart. Over at our account on Letterboxd at the next reel, you can find me there at soda creek film, and you can find Pete there at Pete Wright. So what did you think about Battleship Potemkin? We would love to hear your thoughts.
• 57:25
  Hop into the ShowTalk channel over on our Discord community, where we will be talking about the movie this week. When the movie ends, our conversation begins. Letterbox giveth, Andrew. As Letterboxd always doeth.
• 57:53
  Pete Wright: There are some people who really hate this movie.
• 57:55
  Andy Nelson: Yeah. That really are. I'm at
• 57:57
  Pete Wright: the I'm I'm meeting you down at the bottom of the barrel.
• 58:00
  Andy Nelson: I don't know where you went. I didn't go to the bottom. I'm I'm midway, so we're we're not quite meeting. I'll just say, I'm
• 58:06
  Pete Wright: not gonna I'm not gonna read it, but Conpecki Kino, if you happen to go to the bottom of the barrel, has a has a delightfully low brow half star review. But I'm gonna go with Mirabel Lee's half star review who says, nobody hates this movie more than me. The scenes were literally all over the place, and the conclusion was the dumbest thing I've ever seen. They just embrace makeup? What about the war?
• 58:32
  What the hell? I despise this film. Wow. The scenes were literally, Andy, all over the place. Somewhere at sea, somewhere on land, all over the place.
• 58:43
  Andy Nelson: You know, I this is an interesting point that I suppose is worth just discussing very briefly. It's just that through today's eyes, like, just putting this movie on with no context might be hard, might be difficult if you don't really well, I guess that's a question. Is it hard? Should it be hard? Can you jump into this film and just understand that this is a little slice of rise of the revolution?
• 59:10
  Pete Wright: I think so.
• 59:12
  Andy Nelson: I think so. I'm gonna like, if you're just an average Joe moviegoer who jumps into this expecting kind of a real story and a cinematic modern telling of a tale, you really don't get that here.
• 59:24
  Pete Wright: That's fair. I mean, that's fair. You could be like Ian from PVCC with a half star review. No sex scene. No deus ex machina.
• 59:33
  What the hell is even a montage? Wow. I think that's that might be your point.
• 59:39
  Andy Nelson: Yeah. I think some people just are not getting it. Well, I've got a three and a half by Siobhan who says, yes. I indeed watched this Soviet silent film from the nineteen twenties on my phone during a bus ride at 07:30 this morning, exactly the way the director and father of montage Sergei Eisenstein intended. Three and a half stars.
• 59:59
  Pete Wright: Thank you, Chavon. Really good. I actually, I will say, I did watch it headset bound. On the big screen, it's quite delightful. It is really beautiful.
• 1:00:10
  Andy Nelson: I would love to see this played with like a live orchestra. I think that would really be a thrill. You know? Yeah.
• 1:00:17
  Pete Wright: This would be perfect for my symphony, for the for the Oregon Symphony, because it's a it's a weird enough choice for like, I think Portland is a weird enough town that this movie would play very very well to a lot of people who haven't seen it. Yeah. I don't know you can get away with it in Phoenix.
• 1:00:36
  Andy Nelson: I don't know. We used to actually have silent silent Sundays where down in the theater downtown, they have a big organ and they would play silent movies on Sunday with the organist performing live. Okay. It wasn't popular enough. It didn't keep going.
• 1:00:51
  But but this this could have been a really fun one to have seen there. It would have been really fun. I'm sorry it wasn't popular enough.
• 1:01:00
  Pete Wright: Alright. Thanks, Letterboxd.