Latest / So There I Was / That's Not Our Runway! Episode 205

Transcript

That's Not Our Runway! Episode 205 · So There I Was

0:42
So there I was, routine approach at night, somewhere between 100 feet and 50
0:49
feet before touchdown, I froze.
0:53
Well, I didn't freeze. The simulator froze, and the instructor says to me, you see an issue here?
1:00
Said i don't he says look carefully looked forward i'm
1:05
sorry i'm just not seeing it so he changed the conditions from nighttime to
1:08
daylight and there it was bigger and shit an airplane sitting in position oh
1:15
geez ready for takeoff oh man about that in a second terrifying my blood ran
1:21
cold And it was a simulator. Yeah.
1:25
Well, and, and, you know, to, to add to that, just so there's a little detail,
1:33
the simulator visibility, the simulators are so, you're there.
1:38
Yeah, they really are. I mean, it feels like you're there. The,
1:41
the, the, the visuals are so dynamic now.
1:45
The blood pressure comes up, the heart starts pumping, the palms start sweating.
1:48
Yeah, it's, it's, it's real.
1:52
There's a lot to unpack there, and I can't wait to unpack that.
1:56
Yeah, there really is, which was, I found important this week,
2:01
a good story to relate into it, obviously, because of the LaGuardia crash.
2:06
And, you know, we lost two of our brethren in that crash, and that was so hard to watch.
2:12
And we know very little about it. We know some about it, obviously,
2:16
from what's been out there.
2:17
Of course, the keyboard commandos are out there. They've got it solved.
2:21
Which is always frustrating to watch but a couple of things i've gotten questions about,
2:28
and i'm sure you've gotten questions from friends too you know one is how did
2:32
this happen and obviously layers of protection broke down it wasn't one any
2:38
one thing that failed but a number of things that came together to line that
2:42
swiss cheese up right swiss cheese model right just,
2:45
right and there was a hole all the way through it's it's so rare and that's
2:50
what has to happen because like you said there's so many chinks that it has to go through.
2:56
So many layers. From distractions in the tower cab, you know,
3:00
there was another airplane on the field with an emergency that had some of the
3:05
controller's attention.
3:06
It was night. My understanding is maybe they had just come on shift.
3:10
But again, going back to my story, there are lights everywhere at night.
3:17
And I've got the runway lights lined up at that point, but I'm just not seeing
3:23
the airplane. and it, in fairness, that airplane was not lit up.
3:28
It had its strobe lights on and its navigation lights on, but trying to pick
3:34
out one white taillight in the mix of all the white runway lights,
3:39
center line, all, man, tough to do.
3:41
And I think the same thing is probably true in that tower cab.
3:43
There are lights everywhere and trying to deal with distractions and who's been
3:46
cleared and who hasn't been cleared.
3:48
And at one point he even asked, what frequency are you on? Are you on ground
3:52
or tower? Or who's asking me to cross and which frequency are you on?
3:56
Hey, I got a couple of questions to fire at you under that scenario that you
4:00
described. Was it, so obviously it was nighttime, yes?
4:03
Yep. And was it, you know, was it raining?
4:07
Was everything shiny? Like the, you know what I mean? That adds to the confusion too.
4:12
Yeah. So my recollection, my recollection is we had done an ILS and again,
4:19
this is probably 15 years ago or more, but we had done an ILS and broken out
4:24
probably right at minimums.
4:26
And so we, you know, we had a hundred and 200 feet to look at the runway before
4:32
landing, which isn't much. You're three quarters of a mile.
4:37
Maybe really probably half a mile at a hundred at 140, 145 knots, you know? Yeah.
4:44
Yeah. It's so, so my recollection was.
4:48
I don't know if that it was rainy or not, but it certainly was a short time
4:52
to look and a short time to get there and just did not see it.
4:58
Man, let me tell you, after that, well, let me go back to my days in the DC-10.
5:03
I would, as an engineer, as a flight engineer, I played the old LSO,
5:07
LSS game, and I would put my hand
5:09
on top of my head in the engineer's seat when there was a foul runway.
5:13
If someone was on the runway, either in a vehicle or a...
5:20
Aircraft out in front of us, even though we'd been cleared to land,
5:22
I'd put my hand up on top of my head to say, Hey, foul deck.
5:25
And I would tell the pilots clear deck as soon as that traffic cleared or,
5:30
or at, you know, below 500 feet, I call foul deck, go around.
5:35
Foul what? What? What deck? What, what are you saying? Go. Oh,
5:38
you air force guys. Yeah. There's someone on the runway go around.
5:41
That's a great technique.
5:43
What? Yeah. I can't do it. technique in the
5:47
in the pilot monitoring seat as you could in the engineer seat
5:50
because you didn't have any controls but but even
5:53
then all well there's there's spring-loaded to
5:56
look i i have a similar technique when
5:59
we're when when we're not cleared to land
6:02
i won't turn on the taxi light if
6:06
i'm in the left seat or i won't turn on the you know
6:09
the wheel well lights in the right seat just as a
6:11
trigger and then if there's and you know they don't normally clear you the land
6:16
until right you know there's traffic off the runway so that's like 30 minutes
6:21
out you get the announcement in the cabin all the time oh we've been clear to
6:25
land put your seat backs and trade yeah right yeah that that works great yeah
6:29
you're still talking to center no you're not,
6:33
we're not clear to land you bozos yeah that's hey they're not even talking to approach yet Yeah.
6:39
We're on an active taxiway. Well, guess what? They're all active.
6:47
We're on an active. Yeah, come on.
6:49
All right. Well, okay. So back to, uh, back to where I was going with that nighttime
6:54
rain, you know, for our listeners that aren't pilots, but obviously drive cars
7:00
and, you know, everything's different at night.
7:03
Number one, everything looks different at night and then add in a shiny road
7:08
from rain, you know, when the streets are wet and shiny,
7:11
reflecting off the road, right yes yeah shit
7:14
even looks more different so so factor that
7:17
flying into a place that maybe you've never
7:20
been or only been in the daytime or maybe haven't landed on their same on this
7:25
particular runway before yeah and then that's a varsity airport no two ways
7:30
about it it just is oh shit yeah and let's say we let's let's unpack that a
7:34
little bit we won't finish this but but But then you factor in, you're not going to see,
7:39
especially on a low-vis, low-ceiling approach, you're going to break out.
7:44
And if you're hand flying, so you break out, you know, at, I don't know,
7:50
100 feet and maybe have 15 or 20 seconds to go, yep, I'm lined up. This looks good.
7:58
And we're going to be in the touchdown zone. We're going to make a safe landing.
8:01
Yeah, we're going to do it. Or, yeah, no, this isn't good. We need to go around.
8:04
Not a lot of time. Maybe even less than that. Maybe 10 seconds, right?
8:09
And so then you get all the cultural lighting all of a sudden,
8:13
because you didn't see it before.
8:14
Shiny pavement, and it's easy to miss.
8:19
A couple lights sitting on the runway. Holy shit. Totally.
8:24
And my recollection on this was, is there, truck one was on ground frequency, right? Not tower?
8:32
Or do you know? I don't know. So now. Now, the only reason I'm asking that is
8:37
I think it matters because Jazz didn't have an opportunity to hear them request.
8:42
Now, they certainly would have heard tower.
8:44
If it was one controller working ground and tower, they certainly would have
8:48
heard the clearance to cross.
8:51
We don't even know that that was the case. No, but as a standard,
8:56
normally ground control doesn't clear anybody to cross a runway.
9:00
That's true. It has to be a tower frequency. Tower controller clears.
9:03
And ground may clear you across, but only after talking to tower.
9:07
A local controller is what it's called. Local. Yeah.
9:10
So I don't know the details.
9:13
I've seen the YouTube and I've listened to a couple different ATC tapes.
9:18
There's different voices.
9:21
And, you know, first of all, it's just horrific to watch because,
9:25
well, it's horrific. You know what happens, and you see it happening,
9:29
and it's like, oh, God, that's horrible.
9:33
And, you know, those guys, by the time they did see that truck out in front
9:38
of them, there was literally nothing they could do.
9:43
Dead men riding. Yeah. They were dead men riding at that point.
9:47
Yeah. And I mean, there was someone asked about changing control of the aircraft
9:51
two seconds after touchdown.
9:53
I get it. The captain saw it and said, I've got it. And, you know,
9:56
it was already standing on the brakes.
9:58
And I'm willing to bet a month's salary that the first officer didn't let off the brakes either.
10:03
No, no. They were both breaking for their lives.
10:07
And so all modern aircraft have anti-skid brakes, anti-lock brakes,
10:12
whatever you want to call them.
10:13
And so you know they're i'm sure
10:16
they were both you know standing on the brakes which
10:19
the brakes were doing the best they could but remember it was
10:21
wet and you know
10:24
you lose a little braking effectiveness on a wet runway yeah and taxiway d delta
10:30
is about looks to me about a third of the way down the runway so you don't have
10:35
my ipad it would have been i could pull that up really yeah they would have
10:38
still been really moving along no matter what i mean well here eight seconds after touchdown.
10:45
Yeah is is impact let's assume they touch down
10:48
130 really slow let's say
10:51
110 knots eight seconds later yeah they're
10:55
still they're probably still doing set 60 70 knots 60
10:58
70 knots yeah times 1.15 would give
11:01
you miles per hour you know so 80
11:04
miles an hour yeah it was one
11:08
of the podcasters that does the you know
11:10
he's captain jim or whatever whatever you know it's
11:13
somebody like that i saw a clip and and he said well somebody said they were
11:18
doing about 25 or 30 30 knots and i'm i saw the video i'm like bullshit they're
11:25
going a lot faster than that because when something big is when something you
11:29
know when something big looks like it's going fast it's it's going fast.
11:34
Yeah, it is. So it was. Yeah, it is. And it was nice.
11:38
And then a couple other things that come to mind on that are,
11:41
you know, the runway, what do they call it?
11:43
The runway alerting, hang on, let me hit there.
11:47
Yeah, runway alert, RAS, runway alert and advisory system. Well,
11:51
there's runway status lights.
11:52
Yeah. So there's the ASD, which is the airport surface detection system,
11:56
which relies on a transponder in the truck, which truck one did not have, it says.
12:00
Yeah. So that wasn't helpful. But there's also runway status lights,
12:05
which turn red and green, which in theory,
12:08
even if truck one was clear to cross, if runway status lights were working,
12:12
those lights should have been red, in which case truck one should have said,
12:18
I got red lights in front of me. Are you sure I'm clear to cross?
12:22
But, you know, we don't know. That's how it should have worked,
12:26
assuming those lights were there. I'm not, I don't know if those lights were
12:29
there or not, but that's, that's the modern system.
12:33
And it's actually pretty amazing. The first time I ever saw him working,
12:36
I'm like, well, this is cool.
12:38
Like the first time I ever noticed him was at Logan. We were going to take off
12:41
on like runway nine and had an airplane landing on four and we were cleared
12:46
in the position and hold and line up.
12:49
And there's a bunch of red lights in front of us.
12:51
Yeah. We weren't going anywhere anyway, but it wasn't until the aircraft crossed
12:55
in front of us on runway four landing.
12:58
That our red lights went out, and then we got our clearance to go.
13:01
It's like, oh, that's slick. Yeah, I like those lights.
13:05
Hey, Scott's asking if we know what the ATC staffing was at,
13:11
and I think they were – I don't know that they – Have they released that? Did you see that?
13:17
I haven't seen that.
13:20
I don't know. I mean, you have to –.
13:25
We can't make any assumptions, but we all know that ATC staffing is tough right now.
13:33
Nationwide. We've had, we've had air traffic controllers on and they talk about
13:37
it. It's, it's in rough shape.
13:39
They are thousands of controllers, hundreds of controllers short, I think they said.
13:43
And, you know, just get hired and start controlling airplanes next week.
13:48
So, especially not at LaGuardia, at Kennedy, at DC, you know.
13:53
No, those are varsity. those are varsity airports it's in
13:56
a high high living area
13:59
so it's not popular place for people to move if they're
14:02
moving from you know a low cost living area it's
14:06
it's it's tough it's a tough market for them absolutely absolutely so i uh get
14:14
dizzy and scotty scotty's a professional pilot so yeah he he said he he heard
14:19
from oh disney said he heard from two in the cab so yeah and work in multiple frequencies.
14:23
That was my question about that. Was he on ground? Was he on tower? Right.
14:27
They should have heard the truck clear to cross, but they would have not heard
14:30
the request to cross jazz.
14:32
I'm talking about the airplane pilots and jazz could have heard a clearance
14:36
to cross the only way in front of them, but man, you would think on short final,
14:42
you hear somebody, Hey, you're clear to cross. We're like, Whoa,
14:44
Whoa, Hey, we're, we're landed.
14:46
Yeah. Whoa. Everybody slow down. Yeah.
14:50
And uh yeah i have
14:54
a so there i was story you triggered it
14:56
actually you triggered it when you told yours
15:00
in the opening and i wrote it down real quick so i wouldn't forget it i'll
15:03
tell it if you want yeah man it's it's along
15:06
the same lines as this it happened in afghanistan and
15:10
the night before the incident happened i
15:13
landed at this little airfield that
15:17
of course we're flying at night we're on uh night vision
15:20
goggles mvgs and it was
15:23
a very bright night big moon light illumination we're
15:27
flying in there it's uncontrolled we're flying in
15:30
there i could see the runway i could see everything perfectly they they
15:33
didn't have the ir lights on and infrared lights when
15:36
you're looking through goggles look like normal lights a little light it would
15:39
be lit like the battle story glass but it wasn't and so.
15:43
You know co-pilot called the called the
15:46
the guy that's not the tower but you know the the
15:49
airfield you know unicom guy and said hey
15:52
can you turn the lights on and and the guy says yeah
15:55
it's gonna take a while i gotta get a kid on
15:58
a four-wheeler he's gotta go fill up the generator and
16:01
we're like you know i tell him fuck it we're
16:04
good we're gonna land right so we land it's so
16:07
so this fob uh forward operating base was
16:10
had a long runway it was like 7 000 feet
16:13
which was long for afghanistan and it was
16:16
paved was one of the new it was one of the new ones okay yeah
16:19
and across the field from the fob like
16:23
so the runway it's a north south oriented on the east side on
16:26
the other side of the fob they had a little 1500 foot gravel dirt strip that
16:32
and that's where all the helicopters were sitting on a ramp just to the side
16:35
of that 1500 foot strip and it was a it was an army fob they were out you know
16:40
operating out there so i had to tell you that because the very next night we had a crew.
16:47
A c-130 crew go in there same scenario but it wasn't very it wasn't a big illumination night,
16:55
so okay and so they could see it
16:57
but they asked for the runway lights and the
17:00
guy says yeah it's going to be a minute the guy's got to get on the
17:03
four-wheeler and the gas and you know yeah
17:07
and so and so they go okay you know
17:10
fire it up and what they think they
17:13
see is the lights of the
17:16
runway but what they are actually seeing is
17:19
the the lights of the fob and the
17:23
lights on the 1500 foot runway okay
17:26
so they line up to land on the 1500 foot runway and what they don't do it yeah
17:34
what they don't know is there were three ch-47s full of paratroopers turning.
17:44
Uh right at the edge of the runway and a couple
17:47
of uh uh 60s also full
17:49
they were getting ready to conduct a night raid these guys
17:53
touched down on that 1500 foot strip the wing of the c-130 went over the top
17:59
of all the rotors sitting on the side of the runway they as soon as they touched
18:05
down the pilots realized oh fuck this is not the right runway and they went
18:09
they went around In the process of going around,
18:12
they barely got airborne and ripped.
18:14
There was a big six-foot...
18:17
You know, fence at the other end, kind of a, the fob perimeter.
18:21
And one of the, one of the posts ripped through the bottom of the C-130 and
18:25
actually ripped through a pressure bulkhead in the belly towards the aft.
18:30
Oh, and they, and they made it back. They made it back to Bagram.
18:34
And then we all got to look at it the next day.
18:36
And then I flew the accident investigation team the following day out there to this fob.
18:42
And so that's how I, I kind of knew a lot of the details about it.
18:46
But what happened is they rolled in, they are seeing what they want to see, right?
18:53
They got it all figured out. But really, the navigator had built an approach
18:59
to the big runway, and it was showing everything off to the right.
19:03
And the navigator's trying to say, hey, boys, you're not lined up on the runway.
19:06
And they're like, shut up. Shut the fuck up. We got it. We see it right here.
19:09
You're done, Nav. Shut up.
19:12
And yeah anyway it would have had they had they hit those helicopters which
19:18
they were so close it would have been the largest loss of life in one event
19:23
in the whole war because it was,
19:27
347s full of army guys a couple uh 60s and this in the c-130 had 60 paratroopers in the back,
19:34
it would have been massive it would have been mass casualty event oh that's
19:39
horrific just to think about holy shiza but it was at night and you know cultural
19:46
lighting they thought they saw what they wanted to see they you know they were
19:50
convinced they had convinced themselves you know of what they were seeing,
19:55
Yep. And then there you go. Yeah. So there you go.
19:59
And then in the comments, we've got a bunch of folks in here today, which is outstanding.
20:03
Weiser jumps in. He says he instructs at a UK airport recently after he was
20:07
cleared for a touch and go with a student, a trainee controller cleared another
20:11
light aircraft to line up on the runway in front of him.
20:14
So he started to go around, called it on the radio and the supervising controller
20:17
sorted it out as I completed the go around. I doubt the trainee will do that again.
20:21
Yeah. Fortunately, that's, that's a hard lesson to learn, but I bet you're right.
20:26
I bet it was learned completely and fully.
20:31
And you can always tell when there's the supervising controller steps in.
20:35
Real quick, so there I was for me, and this one wasn't dangerous, but it was funny.
20:40
We were taking off from Los Angeles one morning, and we were going to take off on runway 25 right.
20:48
So this is still in the days of Jepson paper charts.
20:53
You said morning. You're saying morning. Are we talking wee hours when it's dark?
20:57
No, daytime, like 7 a.m. local, something like that. Yeah, so it's bright daylight.
21:03
But get out there, and we get cleared in position hole 2-5 right at Foxtrot.
21:07
Okay, we line up, sitting there, and our clearance is there.
21:11
We've got our squawk, and we're going to take off on, like, the Loop 9.
21:17
I think it was what it was. And we've got the chart right there in front of me.
21:21
And tower controller comes up and says, DC-10, clear for takeoff,
21:28
Windsor this, clear for takeoff runway 25R, change from the Loop 9 to the LAC 7 departure.
21:36
I'm like, oh, okay. Well, we haven't got that in the computer.
21:40
And I'm just sitting there. And, of course, there's this huge question mark
21:44
over our jet. Oh, yeah. Down there on the end of the runway.
21:48
And another voice comes on about three seconds later and goes.
21:52
Take your time there, DC-10.
21:54
The LAX-7 is actually on the back of the Loop 9 departure.
21:58
If you just want to flip that page over, it'll be there. and
22:01
your only difference is you know you're going to turn it at three
22:04
miles instead of five miles down to the next you're
22:07
like oh okay good to go so but
22:10
yeah you can't just change so clearly it was
22:13
a controller who was under training who was like uh yeah
22:16
you can't do that to pilots when they're on
22:19
the runway so oh
22:23
well that's a small detail it's a
22:26
small thing right yeah i was like i have no idea
22:29
what this you know where this isn't it was funny that the
22:32
controller knew no it's right on the back page of that one you're looking at
22:34
so like all right and he was right it was flip the page over there it is oh
22:39
we can do that go so but yeah that's a massive and fortunately it was dc10 where
22:45
we had two clocks and a vor no no ians computers or any of that stuff to right
22:51
program It was real flying.
22:54
Yeah. That's an emergency. Stick and rudder, baby. Stick and rudder.
22:58
So anyway. Oh, that's terrifying that that 130 almost hit those guys.
23:03
Yeah. Yeah. Did anyone ever sort out that maybe they ought to have the IR lights available?
23:10
Yeah. Well, you know, in a very small paragraph at the bottom of one of the many Air Force.
23:19
You know publications that you're required to know every word of
23:22
it it does say thou shalt not land at
23:25
night on nvgs without ir lights
23:29
oh okay so it's
23:32
on the pilots right out that you know they violated well the
23:35
thing is they thought they saw it that that was
23:38
the thing they they thought the lights got turned on and
23:40
they were like yep there it is the navigator had
23:44
built a self-contained approach to
23:47
the real runway and he was going hey no hey you guys are
23:49
lined up on something i don't know what you guys are looking at and they shut them down so
23:53
there was this lot of cr there was a crm cockpit resource
23:56
management difficulty going on there and then
23:59
they had convinced themselves what they were seeing was what they wanted to
24:02
see and and they weren't listening to anybody anymore because they got what
24:06
they want and next thing you know bob's your uncle you about take out up 200
24:10
dudes and you know you run your airplane and run your run your day life and oh yeah But, hey,
24:17
everything came out okay. By the way, the airplane didn't fly again eventually.
24:21
You mentioned CRM. What does that stand for? Well, cockpit resource management.
24:26
It's the mental part of how you communicate with your crew.
24:33
So everybody has a shared mental model of what's going on, what you intend to
24:39
do, what your plan is, right? So there's no surprise.
24:46
And 80% of all accidents and incidents can be tied back to a lack or a mistake-making in CRM.
24:57
Yeah, it's sad but true. And in fact, I recall the one fatal 747 crash for Flying
25:05
Tigers back in the early 90s.
25:08
There was a language barrier, and it was like cleared level.
25:14
And of course, over here, flight levels are 180 and above, 18,000 feet and above.
25:19
And various countries you go to, flight levels can be, you know, as low as 2,000 feet.
25:26
And I think they said clear, it doesn't matter specifically what they said,
25:33
but it was something like, you know, cleared to 240 or, you know, 2,400.
25:41
And yeah.
25:43
They read it back as cleared to four zero, 400.
25:47
And the flight engineer actually said, I'm uncomfortable with this.
25:52
I think we're too low. To which the captain replied, no, I think we're good
25:58
here. If you get uncomfortable, just say something and we'll go around.
26:01
He already did, right? Just did. He just did.
26:06
Yeah. And sadly, a few minutes later, they were dead.
26:10
They hit the side of a hill. So, so CRM is, is, you know, we're learning to
26:16
actually listen to the other guys on the flight deck.
26:18
They might have a picture, better picture than we do.
26:21
Right. Even though, you know, the captain is the one in charge and the ultimate
26:25
authority and responsibility.
26:28
I learned early on to, you know, let those guys speak up and,
26:32
and listen to what they had to say.
26:35
Wasn't their first day on the job likely.
26:38
Right. Tenerife. Tenerife, the two 747s that collided.
26:44
That's the biggest mass casualty event in airline history.
26:49
It was all CRM related. I don't think we were cleared. No, we were good.
26:55
Up come the throttles. We are good to go.
26:59
Serious case of get-home-itis. They were all worried about timing out and hotel rooms and all that.
27:06
Yeah, it was horrific. Oh, man. And yeah, and then Cali-Columbia in the 90s.
27:11
That was a mode confusion, language barrier.
27:14
You're right, Scotty. Lack of CRM, the whole thing. And, you know,
27:19
had they gotten the speed, the go around or, you know, the climb, get the speed brakes in.
27:24
And there was some guesstimates that they might have made it had they gotten
27:27
the speed brakes in. They were starting to climb out with the boards out.
27:30
So, yeah.
27:33
Oh, yeah. Yeah, that's rough.
27:37
That's another one that's totally, yeah. That became part of our...
27:45
Go around and winch your escape maneuver and all that to check the speed brakes right after that.
27:51
Max rust, those speed brakes, max rust, those speed brakes.
27:55
That's, that's a, we, I think we all have.
27:58
Yeah. Configure written in blood. You know, we often say those,
28:02
those are manuals are all written in, in blood and that's, that's one of them there.
28:08
So rough. That's what, man. Happy topics today.
28:12
Fig. Well, let's lighten it up a little bit. What do you say? What do you say?
28:18
Right? What? Well, I got a happy topic. I was down in Houston last week for
28:22
the, went to see the rodeo and got to see Lainey Wilson in concert. That was a fun show.
28:28
She actually rode off, at the end of the show, rode off the stage on her own horse. Hey!
28:35
Don't see performers ride away on their own horse very often,
28:38
but when you're performing at the rodeo, I guess you'd get to do that.
28:42
What does that have to do with aviation? Well...
28:46
Two days later, I was at the airport. You got some airport appreciation time, didn't you?
28:53
Yes, I did. And having been a known crew member for years and years,
28:57
and wisely, they let you bypass security with known crew member because,
29:03
you know, occasionally you get randomized and you have to go through security anyway.
29:06
But why waste time, energy, and all that looking at the pilots who could take
29:11
the airplane down in their underwear to see if they have extra long blades on
29:15
their nail clippers or, you know, what have you.
29:19
But I digress. I got to spend four hours, 15 minutes in a line waiting to get to TSA security.
29:27
I wound up missing two flights.
29:29
Oh, my God. Yeah.
29:32
My wife is a travel agent and very good at quickly rebooking so that when I
29:36
got up there, I didn't have an expired, you know, oh, your flight left 20 minutes
29:39
ago. No, no security for you.
29:42
Um, so she had me with a current boarding pass slash seat request,
29:46
but man, let me tell you with my, my current medical condition,
29:49
standing in line for four hours plus was undoable at best and miserable.
29:56
Just so i don't know if you've had any passengers have
29:59
you dealt with any passengers that have come through any of that yet or
30:02
so i i have been blessed enough not
30:05
to have had to operate a flight
30:08
since february so
30:11
it's april or i'm sorry march odd month you know
30:13
i give check rides and sim yeah i haven't had
30:16
any issues but so this month uh well
30:19
this month coming up is a flying month for me so i'll i'll let
30:22
you know how it goes hopefully we're going to square this shit away here soon
30:26
because this is yeah this is getting untenable and i don't know how i'm surprised
30:30
there haven't been more incidents with short tempers and everything else everyone
30:34
was really good about it in line and you know it was miserable that that sucks.
30:40
Oh, yeah, it was horrible. Lady in front of me had, little boy appeared to be
30:45
about four or five years old.
30:47
And it snaked back and forth, back and forth, back and forth so much.
30:51
I'm like, and I tried to tell her, go sit down over there.
30:54
You know, and when the line gets over there, I'll pull you back in line.
30:57
You guys can have a few minutes off your feet.
31:00
But her English wasn't good enough and my Spanish wasn't good enough to properly communicate that.
31:05
So she'd let him sit down. He'd get four or five minutes of sitting down at
31:09
the end of a loop and such. but it was horrible.
31:12
And there were a lot of elderly people there and a lot of people,
31:14
I don't know how they did it.
31:16
Some people in that line, I have no idea how they managed to do it that long.
31:20
Yeah. That's rough. Yeah. Go take a bathroom break, go to the end of the line.
31:26
Yeah. Unless you got somebody kind enough to go, Hey, you can get back in.
31:30
So Scotty, Scotty's saying SWA is going to hire a thousand pilots this year
31:36
and upgrade 700. So if any of our listeners out there are waffling on whether
31:41
or not to apply, he says, get your applications in.
31:45
Great. I can do that.
31:49
No, I'm a geezer. I'm afraid my time's done.
31:53
But yeah, that's fantastic news.
31:58
And in fact, the young gent, I'm not going to say his name at this point because
32:05
I haven't got permission to.
32:06
And I can't remember a call sign for him, but he'll helped my daughter get hired
32:12
by the Air National Guard going through interviews and all that stuff.
32:15
He just got picked up by American.
32:17
So airlines are actually hiring. That's a, it's a beautiful thing.
32:22
Yeah. We need to get our air traffic controllers trained up,
32:24
right? That's part of the, that's part of the system as well. Yeah.
32:29
Let's get that fixed. That's, that's terrifying that that was,
32:32
you know, that that's getting there.
32:36
Oh, hey, you know what? I'll give you a second to think of a story.
32:40
Well, I want to take a minute to...
32:44
To thank Derek, I think. I think I do. DC?
32:50
DCartworks.com? DCartworks, yeah.
32:53
So, there I was, not planning to buy anything, just taking a look.
32:58
Yeah, that lasted about 60 seconds on DCartworks.net because here's what happens.
33:03
You go there thinking you'll casually browse, and then your brain immediately
33:07
starts designing something. What if I did my call sign or squadron logo or something
33:13
for the hangar or the fighter bar downstairs and now you're in it?
33:17
Well, that's exactly what Derek is built for. DC Artworks is American-made,
33:22
veteran-owned, and Derek specializes in turning your half-formed idea into something
33:26
you didn't even realize was possible.
33:29
This isn't picking from a catalog. This is, hey, Derek, here's what I'm thinking
33:32
and then watching it come to life.
33:35
Everything starts with CNC cut hardened steel, so it's precise,
33:39
clean, and strong, and then it's hand-finished, which is why every single piece
33:44
has its own personality.
33:45
No flimsy metal, no cheap feel.
33:48
These are pieces you hang once and then never replace them.
33:53
And here's the kicker. 95% of what he builds is custom.
33:57
That means the real product is your idea. The design library on dcartworks.net
34:03
is constantly updated and yeah, you'll see stuff that looks awesome, but the real move?
34:08
Don't just browse. Reach out. Start the conversation.
34:12
That's where this gets fun. I've got a set of naval aviator wings about two
34:16
feet across and they are ridiculous in the best way.
34:20
People stop mid-conversation when they see them.
34:22
That's what happens when something is actually built and not mass-produced.
34:28
He also does powder coating and multi-material engraving, so you can get color,
34:32
contrast, and depth that turns a simple idea into something people notice immediately.
34:37
He's a military GPC vendor, offers bulk and repeat discounts,
34:41
and is one of the lowest-priced guys doing this work at this level.
34:45
And for you, our listeners, go to dstartworks.net, use code STIW,
34:51
Sierra Tango, India Whiskey, and get 20% off every order.
34:57
Forever even if something else is on sale but seriously don't overthink it go
35:02
to dcartworks.net spend a minute looking and then message Derek and say here's
35:06
my idea that's where the magic starts and thanks to dcartworks.net for sponsoring this episode.
35:16
All right thanks Derek yeah man cool stuff we had him on last week's show in fact 204,
35:25
Another, I don't think we covered it in there, but he is the senior enlisted
35:30
flight engineer in the Air National Guard Bureau in the United States.
35:35
So, he knows his stuff. He's getting some shit done over there.
35:40
Yeah, he is. Helping out good folks.
35:44
So, man, what else? So, you've been given check rides in the simulator,
35:49
man. How many unsats? I know you're a hard ass in there. Yeah.
35:54
You ever give them a chat? Yeah. Yes. And, and, you know, it's,
35:59
it's not because I didn't like them.
36:01
I thought this crew was where they were nice people. They just needed,
36:05
they weren't, they didn't meet the standard, you know, and the standard is the standard.
36:08
So they just need a little extra training and they got through it eventually.
36:14
Not with me, somebody else. And then, you know, every once in a while,
36:17
somebody does something really, really stupid. Boneheaded.
36:22
Yeah. And then that's out of my hands. you know it's completely out of my hands
36:25
when when somebody does something really stupid,
36:29
yeah yeah well i thought that's why there
36:31
were two pilots in one pilot there to keep the other one
36:34
from doing something really stupid well we hope they just talk them
36:37
into it well so the problem is is when
36:40
one pilot does something really stupid and the other pilot
36:43
is unaware that this is
36:46
going to happen there's the problem right yeah
36:49
that's a complete breakdown in what we were already
36:52
talking about shared metal model here's the
36:54
thing though here's the thing though in in
36:57
my humble opinion that that's super rare one even
37:01
more rare out on the line than it is in the simulator because the simulator
37:05
is designed to con guys into doing stupid shit so they learn something right
37:10
right so no that's spot on that's absolutely right and and the events events
37:17
like that that have personally happened to me when I've been.
37:22
Evaluating the crew has been rare, extremely rare the majority of time.
37:27
And I mean, 95% of the time, I'm always impressed at how, how good we really
37:33
are as, as professionals.
37:35
You know, you come together, you've never, you've never seen each other before
37:38
you come together, you sit down in a little cockpit or big cockpit, whatever.
37:44
And everybody knows the first time you met is literally an hour before pushback. Yeah.
37:49
You know, your job, you know what they're supposed to do. you know
37:52
what you're supposed to do you know the you know how the checklist goes
37:55
you you procedurally you know what's supposed
37:58
to happen it's it's really it's it's
38:01
impressive it it break when it breaks down that's so when it does break down
38:07
and it will when when you get out of sequence when something goes off script
38:11
that's when it's really important to be good at crm so you can catch those errors
38:18
and get back on script, so to speak.
38:21
Yeah. Well, and even then those errors aren't, I'm just trying to put the public's mind at ease.
38:27
Even then those errors aren't necessarily going to lead to a,
38:31
you know, a fatal accident or something like that.
38:33
I mean, for instance, I remember being in a simulator one time and here's one
38:39
that's terrifying and I'm sure you guys do it too, but it's unreliable airspeed indicator.
38:45
And once you realize that someone's airspeed ain't
38:48
quite right and then you start troubleshooting it and all that stuff and just
38:53
follow the damn checklist but i was smarter than the checklist in the airplane
38:57
and so i you know i wound up like over speeding the flaps it's like okay where
39:05
did you deviate from the checklist here,
39:08
Okay. And do you, you know, now do you see why that probably wasn't a good idea? Uh-huh.
39:19
So now, you know, don't, don't, don't go guessing, follow the checklist and
39:24
you'll be fine. Yeah. Lesson learned.
39:26
I mean, that was, that was pretty stupid, but would that have led to a fatal?
39:29
No, I, it would have in theory led to an, a maintenance inspection on the airplane.
39:34
I mean, fortunately it was in the simulator and, you know, it was like,
39:37
eh, okay, don't do that again.
39:39
But, you know, lesson learned. But, yeah, it's, but was it, was that a mistake?
39:44
Yeah. And I'm sure the instructor's just sitting there going,
39:47
man, this is like the fourth time I've seen that this week. Yeah.
39:52
So, well, tell me how your check rides go, being as you are the instructor that gives them.
39:57
So you have probably have to have a standards check airman to give your check rides.
40:02
And do you, they probably go pretty smoothly because you know all the scenarios
40:06
that are going to throw at you.
40:08
Well, so the way we do it is we conduct our checks on the next year's profile.
40:20
Ah, so you haven't given them yet. We, so we give them to each other,
40:24
but when it's in the development stage, you know, the, uh, so the scenario is a city pair.
40:30
You're going to go from Chicago to Newark.
40:33
And then the, you know, all these non-normal things, off script things are going
40:37
to happen so that we can, we can assess a crew's ability to navigate through
40:43
all these different distractions.
40:46
You know, it's basically how is their crm we
40:49
we know they can fly an airplane and uh
40:52
so we we test those and then we tweak them
40:55
as we go through our own checks and training so that that's the loft phase the
41:00
line-oriented flight training loft the day before is when we get recertified
41:07
on all the maneuvers right the single engine go around the single engine approach
41:12
all that stuff yeah so that's
41:14
like we we get evaluated on that like every pilot does.
41:20
The only difference is when we do the loft for the loft phase
41:23
the evaluators you know the standards guys
41:26
are the ones that test it and then
41:29
refine it because some some of the scenarios are our subject matter experts
41:35
come up with are completely off the chart and a line crew would come in and
41:42
you know vapor lock and never they say no we're going to divert right now we're like no no, no, no.
41:46
You know, we don't want, we don't, we, we wanted this to come.
41:49
So that's, that's kind of how we, that's kind of how we do it. Right. Yeah.
41:53
You game in the system to find out. Well, and I imagine probably after three
41:57
or four crews do it, they go, okay, that isn't going to work.
42:02
So we need to, yeah, we need to refine the scenario that we, that we give folks here.
42:06
So what are you doing, man? You're trying to rip your microphone off the wall
42:09
there. It looks like that.
42:10
I got, I got a lot of shit going on here all right all right i'm back i'm back
42:15
so it's gone for a while now always something i'm back yeah so all right well
42:22
we got uh we got quantico coming up next month we're going to go down to the
42:26
marine corps heritage foundation i'm looking forward to that dinner,
42:30
yeah i'm that's going to be a lot of fun i'm looking forward to that myself in fact we may.
42:35
Especially if this tsa stuff isn't figured out i'll probably fly down in my
42:39
tiger because I'm done with getting stranded at airports where I'm going to
42:43
have to wait forever just to get on an airplane.
42:47
No, that's no bueno.
42:50
Listen, we're a month out from that or a little less than a month out.
42:54
I have a high level of confidence that this shit's going to be ironed out by then.
42:59
Oh, man, I probably just put the nail in there.
43:03
I put the nail in the coffin, didn't I? Great.
43:10
Nicely done. Yeah. Sorry about that. Yeah.
43:13
And so then the 25th is the Marine Corps Heritage Foundation black tie event.
43:19
And hopefully we will get a story or two from that and maybe line up some talent
43:27
to come on and tell stories.
43:30
Absolutely. I'm thinking we will. And then a month after that,
43:33
holy shit, here comes the sundown week. That's going to be a big week.
43:38
Last Harriers to go. So yeah, that's, that's, that's going to be very bittersweet.
43:44
It's going to be fun to get down there and see a bunch of old faces and watch
43:48
the Harrier fly one last time.
43:50
But, oh man, it's hard to believe it's, it's going away.
43:54
You know we we floated this idea and i
43:58
thought it had some traction then it kind of it seems
44:01
like it it might have got it might have
44:03
got dropped in a crack but we at one point said we might have open an open night
44:10
open mic so to speak i'll get back with 223 guys we need to try and do that
44:16
yeah they're going to get the vma 223 pilots to have a have a virtual happy hour on Zoom with us.
44:21
There is a, so I've been in contact with one of them quite a bit lately.
44:26
And I asked them what squadron of life's like right now.
44:30
And they have a debt out. They have a debt down in the Caribbean.
44:34
Right now they won't let them come home because they want them there and so there's literally,
44:40
seven pilots at the squadron oh wow so it's pretty quiet wow yeah so we we might
44:48
be able to get two or three of them on that'd be for a happy hour which would
44:52
be so which would be perfect you know talk about real time talk about life in
44:56
in the last harrier squadron you know as it's winding down,
45:00
what it's like, what your plans are, what's going to look like for the squadron, so on and so forth.
45:08
I was still shocked, though. I got to go back to when we were there.
45:11
Gosh, I guess it was two years ago now when we were there for the 231 demo last year.
45:18
Level three demo. Yes. That I think they call it a heritage room,
45:23
but that there's a bar in the squadrons. What the hell?
45:27
Who, who, who, that was so verboten when we were there. Are you kidding me?
45:32
Now I think they've done it probably because the, because the officer club system is kaput. Yeah.
45:38
With the shit, right? The dirty shames no more.
45:41
And I think the club's an all hands club now.
45:45
Yeah. I'm not, I'm not sure, but I know it's not, it, It's not the quaint little
45:51
dirty shame type bar, which we all knew and loved.
45:55
Right. The worst part of it being all hands is I know the troopers didn't want
46:02
the staff NCOs and the officers watching them.
46:04
And staff NCOs didn't want officers and troopers watching them.
46:07
And I mean, it's just not the best place to socialize. So that makes it tough.
46:11
But, you know, who am I? They didn't make me commandant, so I couldn't reverse that, you know.
46:18
Well i'll fix that damn it they made
46:20
one of my tbs classmates coming out but i don't think he gives
46:23
two shits about the officers club at cherry point right i'm
46:27
thinking you're right i'm thinking you're right yeah what do i know what do
46:31
i know maybe he does i don't know well he's going to be uh the guest the military
46:36
guest thanks month well i will ask him when i see him there you go what are
46:41
you going to do about this fix it hey what are we doing do your job what the hell,
46:46
Come on, General. Do your damn job.
46:50
It blows my mind that, guys, our seniority are all four stars or retired. I know. It's crazy.
46:56
And, you know, when we were lieutenants and captains, those senior officers
47:03
look like somebody's grandfather.
47:06
Who is this old guy? How can he pass a PT test, right?
47:10
Right. Exactly. And here we are.
47:13
That being said, and now I can't remember the name of the town.
47:17
It was where the Audubon Society was formed over in Louisiana,
47:21
west of the Mississippi.
47:22
Anyway, a friend of mine had a cabin on a lake up there.
47:28
And Shea, my wife, and I were driving up there.
47:34
And guys pulled in a gas station. This guy's running by, and I go,
47:38
it's coming down to the Marine Corps. She's like, that's bullshit.
47:41
I go, General Kelly. px
47:44
kelly yeah it was px kelly he was
47:47
getting gas no he was running by he was
47:50
pting oh no shit yeah it that was his hometown i can't think of the name of
47:55
the hometown oh yeah it's wherever the audubon society was born it wasn't new
47:59
iberia somewhere else there out in louisiana yeah general kelly out home for
48:04
a weekend and out for a run and i'm going general kelly that you how you doing,
48:09
Lieutenant Marine Corps going to TBS next week that's awesome,
48:16
And then I met him two more times. I met him at my first Marine Corps ball,
48:19
uh, eight weeks later and then in Hawk Missiles, I was down at LZ Bluebird for
48:25
a, for a CAC's combined arms demo.
48:27
And he came up when I was a platoon commander in Hawk Missiles.
48:31
Wow. Neat guy. Fun to talk to.
48:34
One of those guys who seemed like he actually gave a damn who you were and what you had to say.
48:38
Now I was the second lieutenant platoon commander. He didn't much care,
48:41
but he acted like he did. Well, that's all right.
48:45
Right on. So that's all right.
48:48
So man, we've been going at this, uh, close to an hour.
48:51
I think we probably ought to land the airplane and let people get out of here
48:54
this week. Yeah, man. Let's land the plane.
48:57
That was good. Good discussion. We, we, uh, I didn't know where exactly it was
49:01
going to go, but it went, it went somewhere.
49:04
Yeah. You know, because as soon as there's an accident or an incident,
49:07
all my non-aviation friends will call or when I see them, they go,
49:12
Hey, what do you think happened?
49:13
What, you know, cause we're the experts, right? And I, like you,
49:17
don't like to speculate.
49:18
I like to stick with, hey, this is what we know. And I can honestly say watching it is horrific.
49:25
And I can only imagine what those pilots saw coming at the last second.
49:29
And they knew it was over. They knew it was done. Yeah.
49:34
And I got to tell you, you know, so I did aviation safety for the union for
49:38
years and all that. But that third course, there's three courses you go through
49:42
for accident investigation with the Airline Pilots Association.
49:46
And the last one, they're like, you know, yeah, this is more of what we call
49:49
the hair, teeth, and eyeballs, walking through the crash site,
49:51
picking up remains, that kind of stuff.
49:53
And I said, yeah, I've done enough of that in my career. I'm not doing that anymore.
49:57
I've got people here that do that, and I'm not going to even bother going to
50:01
that course. And I've also found that I just don't even watch,
50:05
I had to force myself to go back and watch this LaGuardia one and the evaluation on that.
50:12
That one and, and Louisville, Kentucky with, uh, UPS last fall. Oh yeah. Oh boy.
50:18
It's, it's all I can do to watch those because I just don't even do it anymore.
50:22
It's just not something that I want to see, need to see, you know, it's heartbreaking.
50:26
And I know a little bit about what, what they were going through and,
50:30
and yeah, I just, it's hard to watch.
50:35
So it is. Don't feel bad if you can't go watch it folks. It's, it's hard.
50:41
Yeah it's a fact yeah yeah so hey for everybody out there on the front lines
50:47
and there's a crap ton of them including I've got a nephew out there in the
50:52
Middle East now in the Persian Gulf with the with the Marines,
50:55
thank you for your service thank you for stepping up thanks for what you do
50:59
for signing your name on the on the bottom line there we blank check deeply
51:04
grateful yeah it is a blank check they signed a blank check Right.
51:11
Right. And I think that's something that we as a civilian population lose sight
51:18
of sometimes when people are serving, they are literally writing a blank check to our country,
51:24
payable with up to your life.
51:27
And that's that's no small thing.
51:31
No. And, and the other people involved in that are, are the families who support
51:37
that and may, may wind up greeting a flag draped casket.
51:41
And that's a big sacrifice for them to put up with.
51:45
So we're thankful for all of them who allow them to do it distraction free. Grateful for that. So.
51:53
Go ahead, man. What else? Hey, shout out to BackBeat Media, Dave Hamilton,
52:02
my man Dave at BackBeat Media.
52:04
He gives us the bandwidth, the knowledge, and he also is the coordinator of
52:13
some of our advertisers that we get from time to time, which helps us keep the lights on.
52:18
Absolutely. And it looks like they're in the deal. I'll talk to you about offline.
52:22
It looks like they're in the works for a deal that may come on for a while.
52:26
So that would be cool. Yeah. Yeah.
52:30
And to all the people who've lost all sense of financial responsibility, God bless you.
52:36
So there I was at US slash Patreon where you give us your money for no apparent
52:42
reason, but other than to keep these shows coming to you.
52:45
And we're grateful you do that. If you are interested in helping support financially,
52:49
we don't know why you would do that, but we're humbly grateful when you do.
52:53
Go to sothereiwas.us slash donate, and there are several ways to donate.
52:58
Patreon, direct donation through DonorBox, and or Venmo, where we get a larger
53:03
cut of what it is that you donate than through DonorBox or Patreon.
53:09
But Venmo doesn't offer a regular, you know, donate every month.
53:13
So we're grateful to all of you as you do that. We question your judgment.
53:20
Seriously your financial judgment but we so much appreciate you yeah what is your nuts.
53:27
Hey we got a merch store i don't know if you're aware
53:30
of this or not repeat but we have a merch store you know
53:33
i heard goodies hats t-shirts koozies shot glasses beer glasses a bikini there
53:42
you go that's right it's beginning it's beginning to begin the beginning of
53:47
bikini season again in North America. Woo-hoo-hoo-hoo!
53:52
Yeah, it is. That's what I'm talking about.
53:55
Make it so. Yeah. Yeah, so there I was, .us slash merch.
54:01
That'll do it. Go get some cool stuff. The graphics on that,
54:06
our show logo, all designed by Styx.
54:09
Fantastic. Who knew that guy was so talented? Great. Exactly.
54:14
I don't think even he knew. Just saying. so could
54:18
you go to solaris.us slash rate and
54:23
give us five stars please helps other people find the
54:25
show believe it or not it really does so any ratings
54:28
you can give us i haven't gone and checked on ratings in a long time
54:31
but i'm i'm assuming we're not getting many or i wouldn't keep asking yeah just
54:36
kidding yeah hey we're trainable if you can't give us five tell us why and if
54:40
you can't give us five give it to somebody else give us some other podcast but
54:44
great to fig So there I was.us and tell him why he's all screwed up and how to fix it. Yeah.
54:50
I need, I need fixing.
54:54
So didn't use any images today, but sometimes we use them from badass.
55:01
BDSaviationphotography.com. Guy's an artist. He is true artist. Thanks, badass.
55:06
Right. I don't know how he comes up with that stuff, but he does.
55:10
He's got an eye. He's got an eye for it. Apparently, he's got some big lenses
55:13
because he gets some photos that are incredible.
55:16
It's like he's standing. I mean, I swear to God, you're looking at Pilot's acne
55:20
as he's going by at 300 knots on departure.
55:23
Yeah. Not a blur. Nothing. It's really, really true art. Exactly.
55:31
Then, of course, Sticks and Bago aren't here because we sneaked this one in on him.
55:35
Didn't tell him we were even going to do it. We decided at the last minute we
55:38
had some time. We're going to bang this out and get this show to you this week.
55:41
We don't know what we're doing for next week yet. We'll figure that out eventually, we hope.
55:45
But so that's where we're at on that.
55:49
I don't know. I feel like I'm hearing something in the background. Oh, buddy.
55:54
That's the two Air Force F-16 pilots that make the whole damn service sound
55:59
good. That's the Dos Gringos.
56:05
Yeah, they've been guests on our podcast. They have four amazing albums with
56:10
music that will brighten your day.
56:12
If you're having a bad day, listen to one of their songs because they're quite— You'll howl.
56:17
You'll howl. It's great stuff.
56:21
One last quick thank you again to Derek over at dcartworks.net for sponsoring
56:25
this episode. I'm telling you, his stuff is amazing.
56:27
You're going to get to see it up close and personal if you go to the Harrier
56:30
Sundown the first week of June.
56:32
He's making nine. count them, nine four-foot steel squadron patches so that
56:38
people will be able to go and get their photo taken by their old squadron patch.
56:43
Full color, cut steel, hand finished. That's awesome.
56:47
Yeah. That is really awesome. Yeah, just amazing.
56:51
Just amazing. I'm getting a bulldog patch done for my fighter bar,
56:56
but I'm only getting it done in like two feet instead of four feet.
57:00
And, you know. That's okay. Well, four feet's bitty. That takes up a lot of
57:05
wall space right there, buddy.
57:07
You got to have a lot of wall space for a four-footer.
57:09
Yeah. Two feet, that's doable. You can fit that in.
57:13
Right? Yeah. And it's going to be cool.
57:16
I'm not doing the regular patch, the Bulldog with the, you know,
57:18
the one that Walt Disney designed, the Bulldog with the wings and the boxing gloves.
57:22
I'm doing the one with the Bulldog smoking a cigar.
57:26
Ah, that's right. The great American Bulldogs.
58:16
Oh, hold on. What? He said it's over. Gentlemen, you can't fight in here. This is the war room.
58:24
We are out.
58:26
That was from Dr. Strangelove. Yeah, man. You can't fight in here. I mean, my president.
58:37
Of course, the whole point of having the doomsday machine is to tell the other side you have it.
58:47
I got to watch that again. Peter Sellers. What a talent. Yep.