Latest / Chef's PSA Podcast / Chef Kyle Knall on Simplicity, Seasonality & Restaurant Culture Ep. 155

Transcript

Chef Kyle Knall on Simplicity, Seasonality & Restaurant Culture Ep. 155 · Chef's PSA Podcast

0:00
Hello chefs, this is Chefs PSA. I'm your host Andre Natera.
0:03
Today I'm joined by chef Kyle Nall, the culinary director at
0:06
Stone Bank Farms and the chef at Birch in Milwaukee.
0:09
He's a three time James Beard semi finalist known for
0:12
redefining Midwestern cuisine. We talk about balance, opening
0:16
restaurants and what hospitality really means.
0:20
Stay tuned. Great restaurants don't always
0:36
bring customers in. Great stories do, because in
0:39
food, beverage and hospitality, what you sell is only part of
0:42
the story. It's the why behind it, the
0:46
authority you create and the experience that you built.
0:52
Market scale turns expertise into content that connects
0:56
podcasts, video series and industry education, not ads.
1:00
Assets. Market scale has brought run the
1:05
past and how to manage like an executive chef to life real
1:08
world examples How great content leads the conversation because
1:13
attention is earned and the industry doesn't need more
1:15
noise, it needs more leaders. So October, new new restaurant,
1:26
huh? Yeah, So what?
1:27
What's the new place going to be?
1:29
So it's going to be called Cassis.
1:30
Yeah. And we fought.
1:34
So my wife and I are building this one together, which is
1:37
pretty exciting. We've never actually done a full
1:39
project together. What about the current
1:41
restaurant? Well, so we moved to Milwaukee.
1:44
We opened Birch. Our son was 2, we had a daughter
1:49
two years later. So she's been the core of our
1:52
family to make sure it it stays together.
1:55
So she really focused on on, on that part of it.
1:58
Now they're at the age where they're in school and preschool
2:01
and all that good stuff. So she can fall back into to
2:03
participating, which she always said she would never want to do.
2:06
Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
2:07
But now, you know, it actually goes to show, like moving from
2:11
New York to Milwaukee, life's better.
2:13
And it's like, no, I think we can do this.
2:16
It's a little different here. And it it feels better.
2:19
Milwaukee is a great Food City. What is What's going to be the
2:21
major differences between Birch and Kassis?
2:23
So Kassis is going to be a French Bistro.
2:27
We say the inspiration is like Balthazar Pastis and La Merceri
2:34
in New York. And to me those are like,
2:37
they're totally different. Well, Pastis and La Merceri are
2:40
totally different, but I love so much about each in different
2:43
ways. Where we're drawing drawing
2:46
inspiration for from both but an all day browser E big 200 seat
2:51
restaurant yeah whoa that's big lunch and dinner.
2:55
Hopefully we'll feel like you're in Paris.
2:57
Yeah, so. What what's, what's exciting you
2:59
right now about what's going to be on the menu?
3:02
Well, the fun thing is over for about 6 months we've done a pop
3:06
up once a week or once a month at Birch for Kassis.
3:10
OK. And so we've like, we've already
3:12
been through maybe 35 dishes. So are you doing the pop ups so
3:15
you can work through some of the dishes and like test the concept
3:17
a little bit? Yeah, yeah.
3:18
Exactly, and it's like, you know, like walking through the
3:21
dining room as Birch, I talk to people and I'm like, hey, how's
3:24
everything? And that's a conversation we
3:26
want to have. But when I do it for these pop
3:28
ups, it's like, no, truly, let's have these conversations so that
3:31
we can change some dishes. You know, we did like a shoot
3:34
cat with flaw for a little bit and we ended up going with
3:38
Eclair, like a small Eclair because people like that better
3:42
and we can understood that. And so now that's like that will
3:45
be probably on the opening menu is like a little Eclair filled
3:47
with like a farm moose. So we're using it as a tool to
3:51
learn to test stuff. I'm sure we'll probably redo it
3:54
all. Yeah, but it's also like super
3:57
cooled for Milwaukee to be like, oh, our new restaurant is
4:00
opening. And by ours, I mean Milwaukee.
4:03
Let's go check it out tonight. And it's just it's fun.
4:06
It's all it's about. It's fun.
4:07
How far apart are they in terms of distance?
4:10
Yeah, like 2 miles. OK, so.
4:12
They're down the street. Have you like started thinking
4:15
about how your day is going to? Go.
4:16
No, that's, that's where I'm, it's the most exciting part.
4:19
Yeah. So my mentor Frank Stit in
4:23
Birmingham had has four restaurants and they're all
4:25
pretty close. And you can see Frank, Chiffon,
4:29
Fond, Bottega and Highlands all in the same night.
4:32
And to me, that's pretty awesome.
4:35
And I hope that's how it works out for me.
4:37
Yeah. Yeah.
4:38
Are you going to chef at both places?
4:40
Are you going to have a chef as as you're expanding the empire
4:44
kind of, right? Yeah, I think we're definitely
4:47
create different structure now. Great opportunity for the
4:50
current chef, Zach at at Birch. But I think with Cassius, I'll
4:55
definitely open with someone who is like truly like the chef.
5:00
We have someone that's on board now to help develop and I think
5:04
he'll bounce back and forth as like a corporate chef type.
5:10
But I really want to see the team like take it as their own,
5:16
which is hard for Birch. I think actually more than
5:19
anything because Birch is like who I am.
5:21
On a plate. On a plate in the the
5:24
hospitality, the wine list, everything about it, like it's
5:28
become the core of my family and who I am and everybody, you
5:33
know, there's been a few interviews like, well, what's
5:35
going to happen with Birch this year?
5:36
Because people think like Carl's opening a new restaurant.
5:39
He's not going to be a Birch. Is it going to change?
5:42
My answer to that is I my goal is that Birch and takes on a new
5:47
level over the next year and actually becomes better.
5:53
And that's the whole idea of expanding is that, and I told my
5:56
landlord this, it's like, look for Birch to be here in 25
5:59
years, we have to grow so I don't have to rely on this one
6:04
restaurant to support my family. What is something that you
6:08
learned that was difficult, like a difficult lesson when you open
6:11
Birch that you're going to definitely make sure doesn't
6:14
happen when you open Cassis? You know, so Birch, was this
6:20
like kind of crazy thing? 2020 moving to Milwaukee,
6:26
newborn left, I open a hotel and restaurant in New York with
6:29
Stephen Starr before I left, which took like 2 years writing
6:35
recipes, tasting 110 dishes with Steven and there's just so much
6:40
development through it. Where we moved to Milwaukee
6:44
Birch was a restaurant that closed.
6:45
I reopened it and we, it was just like really me and this,
6:50
this cook named Jack that worked at Gramercy as well long after I
6:53
did. And we kind of just did it and
6:55
it was like really easy and no pressure.
6:58
And then we just evolved from there and it was like it was
7:01
great. It was like the organic it's the
7:03
perfect organic situation where the old owner could get out.
7:07
I could find a job after moving from the New York.
7:11
So it's really easy. So I would say like I learned a
7:14
lot at Star that I want to make sure I do and don't Eckasis.
7:20
And I do think, I think some chefs think you can put all this
7:24
work into recipe development and systems and kind of overdo it.
7:29
To me, it sucks a little bit out of it.
7:31
Like the excitement and the soul of it.
7:35
I guess like when guests finally come to the restaurant, you're
7:38
like, well, we've been doing this for like 6 months.
7:40
There's not this excitement anymore.
7:42
To me. I want to make sure that when we
7:43
open, it's new to us still and is, is, and it is exciting,
7:49
which is like for some people and some chefs even that work
7:52
with me and they're like, that's a lot.
7:54
And like, why would you do that? But I do think you create this
7:56
organic energy, yeah, that you want guests to experience just
8:01
like you experience. Yeah, yeah.
8:03
That's that's an interesting way to approach it.
8:07
How do you, what's the R&D process look like currently for
8:10
you? Like, is it, is it just you or
8:12
do you have a team and everyone's coming with notebooks
8:14
and ideas of what, what's the brainstorming creative process
8:16
look like? So yeah, we, I hired this guy
8:19
named Matt. He's like culinary director.
8:24
Since I've hired him, our Patriot chef actually left
8:26
Birch. So he now runs the Patriot
8:27
program and he has a great experience with it.
8:30
So he does that. But when we sit down the Friday
8:34
after the cuz he's pop up, we say, OK, what's going to be what
8:38
are your next dishes you want to do and what do you want to
8:40
repeat? So we talked through that like
8:43
probably 18 dishes. And then if they're new things
8:48
and the desserts always change, he'll put the desserts together,
8:51
we'll taste them. The other things we'll talk
8:55
about, we'll look through cookbooks and we'll taste them.
9:01
But they're like, it's really trial and error for most of
9:04
them. But now there's like probably
9:07
like 8 things that are like we love this and we should keep it
9:10
on this menu through these pop ups so that guest coming in that
9:14
have now been to a few can start to feel OK, this is what Kassis
9:18
will be. So for people listening, like
9:20
let's say I'm a, I'm a young cook and I want to open up my
9:22
first restaurant. What are some things like what,
9:25
what is the what is like the first few steps that you need to
9:28
take to get your restaurant going from a business
9:31
standpoint? You know, I think like having a
9:38
cohesive idea from like the front door to the back and I, I
9:44
learned that a lot through trial and error.
9:47
Opening a restaurants in New York and New Orleans to where
9:50
Birch was. We'd have AGM for like 2 years
9:55
because I never found anybody that I love and trusted.
9:58
So I just did it. We had a great service team and
10:02
I trusted them. But like the decor, the wine
10:05
list, the hospitality, the food, it was all something that I
10:09
touched and felt good about. And I think restaurants can lose
10:13
that or not achieve that where it's like, well, the food is
10:17
awesome, but how does the front house feel?
10:19
Does it feel genuine? Like we we talked about the
10:23
statement, be thoughtful. We have it taped above every
10:27
sink. So when you get AC fold out, you
10:29
see it. And the idea is that truly the
10:32
seafold. It's like, OK, you see that
10:34
don't waste any seafolds. Use what you need.
10:37
But when you think about be thoughtful, obviously that means
10:41
hospitality and take care of the guests, but it also means treat
10:44
the vegetables and all the museum plah as well.
10:48
Treat the farmers well, treat everybody in a great way.
10:52
And so like you have great food. But if you don't have that, that
10:56
part of it, I think in the whole restaurant, it doesn't work.
10:59
So I do believe in this like common thread across the board.
11:04
And I think with Wyatt, like Jeff, RGM writes the wine less.
11:09
I try and taste probably 80% with him what he tastes.
11:14
But like we have probably 1 California cab on our list.
11:17
And the idea is that like the the wine goes with our food.
11:21
It's not about really anything else.
11:24
And so I think having that common thread is is like is
11:27
totally key. What about like, how do you go
11:33
from like, sorry, let me, I'm going to backtrack.
11:39
I want to make sure I asked this correctly.
11:43
When when you're looking at a new restaurant, you're looking
11:45
at the the real estate. How do you, how do you raise the
11:50
capital to get in there? And, and you know, are you, are
11:53
you trying to be the only partner?
11:55
Are you looking for investors? And then when you, when you do
11:59
get in the, in the building, maybe it's a second Gen. space,
12:04
are, are, are you looking for used equipment or you're going
12:05
brand new? Like what?
12:07
What is some of that process look like?
12:09
So I, I personally, I've, I think I've had like, so like we
12:14
open Maysville in New York and I came on two months before we
12:18
opened as the chef and partner and I left Currency Tavern to be
12:21
the chef there. And I was really young and it
12:23
was an opportunity and it was awesome.
12:27
So I didn't do any designing. The funds are raised.
12:29
It was a restaurant that was already basically ready to go.
12:32
It just needed a menu. So I got to do that and feel
12:37
that out, which was great. And it really worked out well.
12:40
We opened a second restaurant in New Orleans and I got to design
12:42
the kitchen and do what I wanted, but honestly, like it
12:47
didn't feel as great as it organically did When we opened
12:52
Maysville and then opening with Steven Starr, we had like the
12:55
bells and whistles every like the kid.
12:58
We had like 4 kitchens. We had a room that was for
13:00
butchering and there was no soul to it.
13:05
So it's like, yeah, is that, is that what you want?
13:08
I remember telling a friend that worked with me for a long time,
13:11
I was like, yeah, Bill's like, who?
13:13
How's it going? I was like, I think I have my
13:15
dream job. I'm opening a restaurant with
13:16
Stephen Starr. And he said, well, I thought
13:18
your dream job would be what you did at Maysville, like an
13:21
independent restaurant. You get to do what you want.
13:24
It's not in a hotel. And it made me realize he was
13:29
like, I think he's right. It's like I was much happier in
13:32
that space. And I think Birch has become the
13:35
thing that was kind of the, the, the medium of them all is like,
13:40
it was already set up and it's a kitchen that was poorly
13:43
designed. But that's fine.
13:45
I mean, I, I think if it sucks that cooks have to deal with it
13:49
sometimes and they get frustrated and I can see it and
13:51
it's like, well, it's out of our control.
13:53
Yeah. But it's like, that's not what
13:55
matters. It's like, let's just, I don't
13:57
know. The food is what matters.
13:59
The hospitality is what matters. But I think I think it's OK to
14:04
deal with things. I think it's OK not to.
14:08
I don't know. At this, at the same time, yeah,
14:12
designed something like Cassius. I'm designing it, doing it all.
14:15
I want it to be efficient. Is it all new equipment going in
14:18
there? I mean, it's brand new space.
14:19
Everything. I mean, the concrete's getting
14:20
poured next week. Oh wow.
14:22
Yeah. So it's like ground up real
14:26
estate, everything. So it's like they decked off.
14:28
So Birch was in a restaurant for two years.
14:31
Closed in 2020. Husband and wife bad breakup.
14:36
She was stuck with a restaurant and then I actually operated it
14:39
for for six months and said, hey, let me buy it from you 6
14:43
months in I will let me run it all I want.
14:45
And then it was like a like a dream story.
14:49
It was perfect. She was successful.
14:52
I got to have a restaurant in Milwaukee and it truly is like
14:56
the best restaurant I've ever been a part of.
14:58
Yeah, well, that's that's incredible, chef.
15:00
But like, the difference is like, you're handed this, deal
15:05
with it. Yeah.
15:07
Design it and make it what you want.
15:08
They're both awesome. I think it's interesting.
15:12
It's like, just focus on what actually matters.
15:14
I'm actually just making, making things good.
15:18
Like, don't sweat the small stuff.
15:20
It's funny to say. And after having kids, I really
15:23
like kind of changed my way of thinking.
15:25
It's like, let's not overthink things and let it be about
15:28
ingredients. And I don't know, I think you
15:33
can feel it and like great food. You don't.
15:36
I know we've talked a lot about hospitality.
15:38
How do you go about curating a great hospitality experience?
15:42
And what I mean, I guess maybe a better question would be is like
15:45
first, how do you define hospitality you?
15:50
So you want people. So I think there's like
15:54
requirements for a good restaurant, great food, great
15:58
service. Those are the technical aspects.
16:01
It's like a restaurant should have that.
16:04
Obviously restaurants don't all have that and it's disappointing
16:07
and it sucks, but what hospitality is, You make people
16:11
feel seen and special. Mike Anthony said one time about
16:18
like asparagus. So, you know, cooking is the
16:21
first asparagus of the season at home on a Wednesday night.
16:24
Can make a dinner on a Wednesday night dinner feel something very
16:28
special. So like, there's so many
16:29
opportunities in my head to do that for a guest.
16:33
So yeah, we can get excited about the first Sun gold
16:36
tomatoes and like sort of as a canape with our ricotta that we
16:40
make and just something simple that's delicious.
16:43
But the hospital, like that's hospitality, but I think it is
16:46
like really making sure people feel special.
16:50
How do you go about teaching that though to to new people
16:54
coming through the door? And it's like maybe they're
16:56
maybe they don't have a ton of experience and maybe they don't
16:59
have a ton of experience at that level, right.
17:02
So what are some things that some tangible things that you
17:04
teach people right away that might not fully get it yet?
17:11
I think it's like, First off, be yourself.
17:13
I think it's like, I think people can sense.
17:16
I think you have to be confident.
17:18
I think you have to be genuine. And even if you aren't like
17:21
great at something that's fine. That doesn't to me doesn't
17:25
really matter. Like we talked about, well,
17:27
let's serve from the right and clear from yeah, that's great.
17:30
And like let's think about that. When we're busy, it's like we
17:33
always talk about like, let's control what we could control
17:37
because when we're busy, there's so much we can't.
17:39
So like, let's focus on things, but at the end of the day, like
17:42
don't let doing something not quite proper affect the and
17:49
affect the experience. So like just be yourself.
17:52
We've had, I've had like meals at Michelin restaurants where
17:55
it's amazing and the food is incredible.
17:58
What you can sense the service team kind of break their act and
18:02
it ruins a whole experience to me to where like the best meal
18:05
of my life. What do you mean?
18:07
Like break their act. Well, they're like.
18:09
Without saying the restaurant, can you give me an example?
18:11
What they like, you know, they're like happy and it feels
18:13
like, oh, they're great and they love what they do and then like
18:16
towards in the meal. And this is, is this isn't even
18:19
like the service declines. It's just like their smile
18:23
changed and like their voice changed and it's like what's
18:27
going on here? And so my wife worked at Kortan,
18:30
she worked at Tabla and then Kortan in Muskwarm house in
18:33
front of the house. And she really drives her nuts,
18:37
which obviously has changed the way I think about it and drives
18:41
me nuts, where like she doesn't love eating at like 2 or 3
18:45
Michelin restaurants because it feels so forced a lot of the
18:50
time. I think the amazing ones don't
18:53
have that. My favorite meal of my life has
18:56
was at quints in San Francisco and we're on the way to Napa for
19:01
a week with my wife's siblings to have a good time.
19:05
And the first night, my brother's sister-in-law who
19:09
lived in New York as well, we all had dinner.
19:12
We had a great time riding like the go karts around the city and
19:15
just had a great day. And we had dinner and we were
19:17
like making jokes, laughing. And I can like still remember
19:21
the server like reaching in and adding to our commentary in a
19:26
great way and like laughing with us.
19:27
And it's like, that's, that's what it's about, you know, like
19:30
that feeling and like, I don't know, that's real, you know?
19:34
Yeah. And that's what's special you.
19:37
Just reminded me of something that's not, it's not related,
19:39
but I went to a restaurant. I was with some chefs and the
19:43
server was so awkward. We were all laughing at the
19:45
table. And then he walked up and says
19:46
how what? What are we laughing about?
19:48
What's the joke? Yeah.
19:49
I was like, what? It was like, wait, what's what's
19:52
happening? And he wanted it like, and he
19:55
was dead serious. He wanted to know what the joke
19:56
was. Yeah, it was like, like is this
19:59
is like a fucking sketch from a SNL or yeah, and it was weird.
20:03
When that's how like this moment at this Michelin restaurant
20:06
that's there was this moment where I was like, wow, this I
20:08
think my wife, I think Megan might have said feels like an
20:12
SNL sketch. Like for real.
20:13
It's like, and this sketch just kind of sucked.
20:15
Most of the time. It's like, why am I wanting to
20:19
watch this? Because it's not great.
20:20
But that sucks, you know? Like, it sucks when food is
20:25
awesome. And that's why I think I've
20:28
always felt like this because of my mentors.
20:30
But like, the hospitality is more important, Yeah, than
20:33
anything. So when was the last time you
20:36
had a great experience and what were some of the like, what's
20:39
the story? What was the last great
20:40
experience with hospitality that you had?
20:45
So it actually wasn't in the restaurant, which is like a
20:50
funny thing to talk about. Like this is a a side remark
20:54
before I get to it. But like last week I was at a
20:57
birthday party at Chuck E Cheese and I was talking to.
20:59
Great pizza by. The I was talking to a dad who
21:03
just like, yeah, I just bought these businesses.
21:06
They're like tutoring spaces for kids.
21:08
And we started talking about hospitality.
21:10
And you could tell his look changed and he looked me in the
21:12
eye when he heard me talk about it.
21:14
And he's like, oh, he's he's like, you're right.
21:17
It doesn't just apply to restaurants.
21:19
And that's what's cool about it is like, and we all know that
21:21
now, like I think Will Kadara does that and Danny, like their
21:26
skills are being used now in so many businesses, right?
21:32
The most hospitable thing, thing or experience.
21:36
Actually, I'm going to, it's going to be hardest to say, but
21:42
I was in Philly at the chef conference and good friends of
21:45
mine tracing our job showed up, showed up to the hotel and our
21:49
job pulled out two hats from birdies and they had my
21:52
brother's initials on the side and all of our aprons and Birch
21:56
have his initials here. He died of a heart attack last
21:58
year and he was a chef, but our job did that.
22:03
He's like, these are your hats to to so that you can think
22:07
about your brother. It's like, to me, that's like,
22:09
that's hospitality. Wow, like you can't you And even
22:14
coming up here or coming down to Austin, I was like, OK, when am
22:17
I going to bring Tracy and Ardroff?
22:18
You know, like, what'd you bring?
22:20
A wheel of roulette that it's made like 30 minutes from the
22:24
restaurant. It's a French guy that married a
22:26
girl from Wisconsin. And it's it's like incredible.
22:30
But like, it wasn't the ACT. I was like, OK, what should I
22:34
do? Look what he did for me.
22:35
But that's not what it's about. But that that moment is like,
22:39
man, it's fucking that's an. Incredible story.
22:41
Yeah. Like, wow.
22:42
I mean our jobs. But it's like that, that's
22:45
great. That's the, I mean, that's it,
22:49
right? It's like you can't explain
22:51
that. You can't teach it.
22:52
It also is just like, I think hospitality have these moments
22:56
where like, duh, meaning like, yeah, just do this, just treat
23:00
people in a genuine way and it works.
23:03
Yeah. And be thoughtful.
23:04
And that's that's our thing. Be thoughtful.
23:06
Yeah. Something for you, meant for you
23:08
that's going to be special to you.
23:09
Yeah, right. It's a one of one, yeah.
23:11
It's a one of one experience like this has to fit my big
23:13
head. So I'm like, shit, I can't wait.
23:16
But you know, I'm like, it's, it's, it's just, yeah, it's, you
23:22
can't, you can't replicate it. No, that's that's an incredible
23:25
story that and that's a great and our jobs, like I'd put them
23:28
up there. It's like one of the best, one
23:31
of the best at hospitality. And Tracy.
23:33
Yeah. And Tracy, I mean, we were
23:34
talking about that earlier. Yeah.
23:35
I mean, it's great. And I think and he, you know,
23:38
he's her bigger supporter. They're up for a James spirit,
23:41
right? He yeah, yeah, he is.
23:42
Yeah, yeah. I love them.
23:45
We're in the same. My wife and I like she's from
23:47
the house. I'm back to the house.
23:49
Yeah, we have kids. It's kind of I, I, I respect who
23:53
they are and what they do. We also connect so well with
23:56
them and they're, they're special.
23:57
Yeah. What do they do?
24:00
They have the like the roulette warmer.
24:02
Well, that's the thing. I was like, there I go.
24:04
We're just going to give this family.
24:06
I'm like, no, like, slice it. Well, he's like, we'll we'll
24:09
slice it and charge like 20 bucks.
24:10
He's like, no, like we use it. It's a cool story.
24:14
There's a show, a PBS show called Wisconsin Foodie.
24:18
Yeah, like 2 years ago they called me and they're like, hey,
24:22
Tuesday, we're making this cheese and we need to bring it
24:24
somewhere that the cheesemaker can bring it and hand it to a
24:27
chef and make a dish. It's like, OK, great.
24:30
And I was like, oh, I'm going to shave it over a salad.
24:33
Like we love dishes, vegetable dishes covered in cheese.
24:36
It's like, oh, great. And like the night before I was
24:39
like, you know, we had this dish of gram received back in the
24:42
day. It was a sweet bread dish.
24:44
It was gross. Sweet bread with a bacon broth
24:46
that. Sounds good.
24:48
And, and some Brussels leaves or something.
24:50
I was like, I just loved it so much.
24:53
And so actually took like a wedge.
24:55
And everybody loves wedges of cabbage now too.
24:58
That's like obviously thing. So we grilled over our fire at
25:01
Birch and then separated it in three sections.
25:04
Layered this racket with some sliced apple.
25:07
Inside the cabbage, yeah, and a bunch of.
25:09
Fresh herbs and it melted and then you pour the bacon broth
25:12
over it and then so that dish has become like.
25:14
That sounds good. You know, what's cool about
25:18
Wisconsin is like, you go to Far's market and civilians are
25:21
there fighting you for cucumbers and Peppers.
25:23
That's crazy. But like, we get all these
25:25
people that watch that episode to come in, do you?
25:27
Have a photo of that. The Dish.
25:28
Yeah. Oh, yeah.
25:29
Will you send it to me so when we're doing the podcast, I could
25:31
put up so people could see what you're talking?
25:32
About I mean, it's it's awesome, yeah, but what's cool is like so
25:36
we do that every winter now, which like I'm 100% cool with
25:41
repeating things yeah, people love that define a restaurant.
25:45
I think it's a lot of, I think chefs struggle with that are
25:47
like, hey, let's not repeat. And I have that mentality kind
25:52
of, but also like, no, like this is a dish that represents Birch
25:56
and it makes people so happy and it's some delicious.
25:59
And I think a lot of the time you put dishes together like,
26:01
oh, this is pretty good. I agree with you like when chefs
26:05
say don't don't repeat ingredients and things like I
26:08
get it. But at the end of the day,
26:09
sometimes I think we get caught up too much and like what what
26:12
our rules are like the chef. Paradigm is, I think it messes
26:15
us up up. Here, yeah.
26:16
And like, we forget. Like fucking people love it.
26:19
Yeah, Keep giving them what they love.
26:20
But like when you taste a good dish and then you taste
26:23
something that's banging, yeah, there's a moment when you have
26:26
that banging dish. Yeah, that's like, fuck, yeah,
26:30
yeah. So if you have that dish and you
26:31
can do it. Don't take it off the bat.
26:34
Yeah, it's great. We'll come back for it, yeah.
26:35
So we do it like 3 months of the year or whatever.
26:38
So that cheese is awesome there. But we actually a cassis dish is
26:42
a play on a croak with that cheese.
26:44
Yeah. And now that's like our favorite
26:46
dish for the new restaurant. So it's a special cheese and the
26:49
the guy that made it. Is.
26:50
I mean, it's pretty stinky. I mean, you should've like, I
26:53
threw her TSA yesterday. Even in Wisconsin, the guards
26:57
are like, like, yeah, it's like, you know, but it's, it's
27:03
awesome. You know, we tried, so we tried
27:04
this dish with Rush Creek, which is this cheese, kind of like 1A
27:10
mirror that Jasper Hill makes. So it's wrapped in bark.
27:12
It's made in like with winter milk.
27:15
So it's like made in like December and January.
27:18
It's really special. So we tried it making these this
27:21
croak with that and it was delicious.
27:24
But then I was like, you know, let's try it with the roulette.
27:26
We love this cheese and we love to the the couple that makes it.
27:30
And it's like, oh, this is banging.
27:31
And it's like, it's awesome. I mean, you're, you're right
27:34
there in Wisconsin. I mean, people fucking love
27:36
cheese up. There I mean it.
27:39
They love cheese, but like I said, like going to the market,
27:42
bushels of Peppers, everything, you know, 75 year old woman and
27:47
and couples are taking it away actually, like I don't see any
27:51
chefs at the markets. I like fight with them.
27:53
But then like I I walk away with, you know, we bought all of
27:58
our produce come from this one market, like everything and
28:01
these, you know, old Midwesterners who never probably
28:04
would eat in a nice restaurant. Yeah, they're like Jerry,
28:06
where's I going? Like Birch.
28:08
Will they come to Birch? By the way, I don't think I've
28:10
ever seen a a chef at the market ever.
28:13
And like in my entire life, I've never bumped into another chef
28:16
at A. Party so like going to so
28:19
whatever 2000 8 to 2020 I went to the Union Square market that
28:25
was my home the only time I cried when I left New York was
28:29
actually I said bye to Zaid from Norwich Meadows.
28:32
I went and got my car. I was like, no, this is hot.
28:36
This is tough. Is like this is a part of this
28:40
changed my life and how I think. But you go to that market at
28:44
7:00 AM and it's like you see Dan Bart, you see everybody
28:47
really. It's it's, it's, it's pretty
28:49
cool, like everyone. Everyone's there shopping for.
28:53
Like, shopping, trying to get there, you know, like, Lonnie's
28:56
one of the coolest farms. They'll have, like, burpless
28:59
cucumbers and, like, March before really anything happens.
29:02
Yeah. And you're like, we just need
29:04
those. We need some life right now.
29:08
So. Yeah.
29:10
You're lucky, man. I've, I've never bumped into
29:12
another chef at the farmers market.
29:14
I'm, I'm lying. I probably have, but it's, it's
29:16
just funny because there's a lot of chefs that do it and there's
29:18
a lot of chefs that say they do it and they don't do it.
29:20
Which is like, you know, I when our job was on your show, he I
29:26
think he said like great food should be part of a great
29:30
restaurant. And we already said that sitting
29:31
here. We're like, to me, people ask
29:34
me, oh, what, what kind of restaurant is Birch?
29:37
It's boring and sucks to try to say because it's like what
29:40
everybody says, but our food is like really driven by produce.
29:45
Like you, I think Magnus Nelson said, like, you can't make
29:51
delicious food without great produce.
29:53
And like, to me, it's so easy. It's just like, how why don't
29:58
people do it? And that people don't love
30:00
produce like like we do. But like, this tastes so much
30:03
different than this. So like, why not let that help?
30:06
I and I don't think, I think part of it is because I don't
30:08
think people know that. Like I think they know it, but
30:10
they don't really know it. And there's a moment for me as a
30:13
chef when I was in San Francisco, I was going through
30:15
the farmers market and I was with a group of chefs and
30:19
there's a great vendor and they're like, hey, try this
30:22
grape. I'm like, I'm all right.
30:24
I've had a grape before. And the, you know, to placate
30:28
them, the chef that I was with took the grape and he's like,
30:30
fuck, try this grape. Yeah.
30:31
And I'm like, no, I'm all right. Like.
30:33
And and they kept pestering me. I was like, fine, I'll try the
30:35
grape. But I was kind of annoyed by it.
30:36
And I remember it was like, like a ratatouille moment.
30:38
I tried the grape and I was like a fucking grape times 10.
30:41
Yeah. And I never had a grape that
30:42
good. And it blew my mind.
30:43
And I was like, what the fuck did I just have?
30:45
Yeah, I've never had a grape that and I've never had a grape
30:47
that good since. And it was at that moment, and I
30:50
was young, I was maybe like 25. But it was at that moment in my
30:54
career as a chef that I realized, wow, ingredients do
30:58
the heavy lifting. Yeah.
30:59
Like I, I, I, I heard it, but I understood it.
31:01
Yeah, it was that it was at that moment that I understood.
31:04
And then you try the olive oils, like that olive oil is way
31:06
better than that olive oil. And you know this tomato is way
31:09
better than that tomato. Where like you can use, you can
31:17
use butter to make things taste good.
31:19
Like we don't use barely any butter at Birch, just in our few
31:22
pastas. But like to me, you want things
31:25
that taste like the best version of that ingredient to where like
31:32
if you this farmer in New York told me I went to London for
31:35
like 3 months to open a restaurant with another chef.
31:38
I came back and Zaid from this restaurant in New York.
31:41
Farm in New York is like London was great.
31:43
But I think European produce actually all kind of taste the
31:46
same like a green bean, asparagus, a snap pea.
31:50
They all like, taste like a green vegetable and they don't
31:53
have like these defining characteristics and flavors.
31:56
And it's 100% true. So like if you want to make
32:00
tasty food, yeah. It's like, and also I think most
32:05
of us, our attention span is like, OK, I'm tired of this,
32:08
move on. Tired of this move on.
32:10
So like if you do cook properly in the season when you're like I
32:15
love asparagus so much and I only cook and eat it like 2
32:18
months but I'm ready for the next thing.
32:21
Yeah, and it's not, it's not just the produce, but it's also
32:23
the dairy and it's also good cheese and and it's also the
32:26
good seafood and beef and bread. I mean, it's like when, when,
32:32
when everything is clicking and you got that and you got all
32:34
these great ingredients and they're in season and they're
32:36
fresh and then you know how to cook.
32:39
Yeah, right. And that's like, and that's the
32:41
other part, like you got to know how to cook.
32:42
Like, OK, you got all this paint, but you know how to
32:44
fucking paint, right? Right.
32:46
Right. And it's like, I like, recall a
32:48
moment seeing like, like a steelhead tartare in a mixing
32:53
bowl. And I like to dress it with,
32:56
like, really good olive oil and a little lemon.
32:59
And like, there's not much in the bowl but the fish, but it's
33:01
dressed properly to where I've seen where it's like, there's so
33:04
much like the liquid and other stuff in the bowl.
33:07
Yeah. What's it gonna like?
33:09
You're losing it. All right.
33:10
It's all draining out. And like, there's no, like,
33:14
there's no restraint, obviously. But there's like, there's
33:16
nothing pure about it to where, like, you, you hit those dishes
33:19
that are like, simple, clean and pure.
33:21
You're like. Man, that's glossy, not wet.
33:23
Yeah. Yeah, like.
33:25
And like, don't get me wrong. Yeah, there's olive oil and it's
33:27
like shiny and beautiful and the fish isn't cooked from salt or
33:31
acid. And that's that's what's
33:35
delicious. And it took me like, I use a lot
33:37
of lemon. We squeezers like crazy.
33:41
And it took me a while to, it wasn't actually until Birch, I
33:45
was like, let's not actually put lemon in the spark because it
33:49
covers up the steelhead. Let's just put it on top, which
33:53
is interesting. Like if you mix it in it changes
33:56
it to where if you don't season it all, like season it with acid
33:59
and just squeeze on top, you get the pop of acidity but then the
34:04
fish actually tastes more like itself.
34:06
Do you are you a fan of all types of citrus, like for
34:09
finishing or do you like lemon? Lemon.
34:11
Lemon, lime and always like the beverage director we had at
34:17
Maysville said when I he makes cocktails, if he uses lime, he
34:20
always uses a little lemon because I think lime can create
34:25
this a little almost sweetness a little bit where like a little
34:29
squeeze of lemon balances it well.
34:31
But like lemon, lemon is like. Is massive for me.
34:35
It's your go to. Like huge, like I events before
34:39
our chefs are like, yeah, we go through like 6 lbs of butter.
34:43
When I work at station the other day I'm like like that's not to
34:47
me. That's you're covering flavor
34:49
up, but I don't even know what station they're talking about or
34:51
whatnot, but a chef flexing about that, it's just like,
34:54
really? What the fuck?
34:56
To where? Like us, Yeah, we'll go through
34:57
like 6 quarts of lemon squeezers like on our pasta station.
35:00
Yeah. Interesting, so you're not a fan
35:04
of butter? Oh, I I I like butter.
35:07
You like butter on bread and stuff like that?
35:09
And I like we glazed like we have a we so like with dairy and
35:14
in Wisconsin or ricotta that we make.
35:16
Yeah, I think it's like feel like it's a Gavin Casein recipe.
35:19
So whatever. We cook it in the bag at a low
35:23
temperature. The curds are like really small.
35:25
We drain it overnight and then we whip incredible cream back
35:29
into it. But that's like always a filled
35:31
pasta. We always have.
35:33
And it changes whatever 15 * a year of what's with it.
35:38
And it's glazed with pasta water and butter, but there's a fucked
35:41
ton of lemon juice. And it's like, that's
35:43
everybody's. That's the flavor of like that
35:46
that works. And like as a young cook member,
35:49
Blanc is like boring but incredible.
35:52
Yeah, it's it's funny, I worked for a chef years ago and then
35:55
this chef that I had worked under was like a Dukas person.
35:59
Like they had come up in in the Dukas kitchens.
36:01
And one of the things that I picked up from from working
36:05
there was what they did with butter and what they would like,
36:11
I mean, this work what we did. I don't know how like Dukas,
36:14
this was this what we did. They would simmer like chicken
36:17
bones and butter. And then they'd, you know, use
36:19
the chicken bones for stock or whatever, but they'd save the
36:21
chicken butter. So you'd have like this chicken
36:25
brown butter or or they'd have I think it was great like you.
36:29
I think I've heard you talk about this.
36:30
Yeah, it was fucking delicious. We at Maysville, we would cook.
36:35
So I love chicken in our brick. Yeah.
36:37
And so we'd cook like a young chicken, no bones under a brick
36:41
and baste it with brown butter. Yeah.
36:42
And I was like, oh, we're pouring off a lot of brown
36:44
butter. So we started to save that
36:46
butter. Yeah.
36:46
And we made canopies and we called them baster biscuits.
36:49
Yeah. And it was that butter that we
36:51
basted the chicken with. We'd put in the biscuit and it
36:52
was like, wow, this is. Yeah.
36:54
So flavorful. Yeah, well, that's the thing.
36:56
Like at the same time, butter can take a lot of flavor from
37:00
something. Yes, and I think that's what you
37:01
are. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
37:02
The chicken brown butter was like the secret weapon that we
37:04
would use and then sometimes we'd mix it with a, you know,
37:07
whatever little acid or the cherry vinegar or something.
37:09
But it was one of those like it was like the we put in the pipe
37:12
and no one's yet garnish the chicken with a little bit before
37:16
it goes out. I think one of the things that's
37:19
missing from the conversation today with a lot of chefs, but I
37:23
but I think I think it's an important topic that needs to be
37:27
discussed and I'm curious to get your take on it.
37:31
Balance what? How do you balance being
37:34
successful But I also know you know you got a family, So how do
37:39
you How do you balance 2 restaurants soon to be of being
37:43
a great chef, pushing for excellence but also being
37:47
present when you're not chef. Sure.
37:50
Yeah, like balance is huge and I think maybe we'll I'll talk
37:55
backwards with it. So to answer your, your question
37:57
is like to have a team that you can trust and like, obviously
38:04
like trust them to do the job, but trust them to motivate and
38:11
obviously to make sure guests are taken care of.
38:14
And to me, like, that really means like last summer, I, we
38:19
travel a lot for food stuff, for family stuff, for not great
38:24
stuff. But I was away from Birch a lot
38:28
And our CDC, Zach and our GM Jeff, I guess love them as much
38:32
as they love talking to them and seeing them as much as they feel
38:37
the same way as if I'm there. And that's like, that's gold to
38:40
me, like. So you're able to go away.
38:42
Yeah, but like me too, it's gold meaning like it's the Birch way
38:48
and people will say I hate it when people say like, well,
38:51
that's all chef wanted or that's it's like, no, like what
38:56
happened to Birch is what's best for Birch and it's the Birch way
38:59
Who created that? I did.
39:01
But it's not like what I want. It's what I think the Birch way
39:05
is until like it's amazing that that hospitality people being
39:12
driven by hospitality have like that's the that's that's come
39:16
from Birch and like Birch has foster that and the people.
39:19
So to me about being at the restaurant and seeing that it
39:24
was like, OK, yeah, we can definitely opening a new, open a
39:26
new restaurant. I think that is key is like
39:33
finding those people like not about making this dish properly.
39:36
Of course that matters and that can vary.
39:39
And it's frustrating to like, I was at James Beer Boot Camp last
39:44
week, so I got back to Birch. I was at Birch two days this
39:47
week before coming down here. And there are some things I was
39:49
like, yeah, this isn't exactly right, but it's delicious.
39:55
And like, that's not what's important.
39:58
What's important is, like, the team's humming.
40:02
The front house is humming. We're an open kitchen.
40:05
And the whole restaurant is like, everything feels great.
40:07
And that's hard as a chef, I think, to, like, realize that.
40:10
Because if in those moments at service, let's say Wednesday
40:15
night, I was like, oh, that's fucked up.
40:16
That's fucked up, That's fucked up.
40:18
And I was running the board has like, it's just going to take me
40:20
down. It's going to change the whole
40:22
dynamic of, First off, the restaurant tonight and the
40:25
guests are there tonight. What does that means?
40:28
Also, I'm changing the dynamic of this restaurant before I go
40:31
down to Austin for four days, which is like I can't do that.
40:35
I need this place to be where it should be when I'm not there.
40:39
And so finding those people that are hospitality driven and you
40:44
can trust, it's like by far what's giving me balance for
40:50
sure. And how do you, how do you
40:53
disconnect? Because I'm, I'm, I'm certain
40:56
you're probably always on, I would imagine, but there's other
41:00
times that you got to be present with what's in front of you and
41:03
not that might not be the restaurant.
41:09
I think, I think it's interesting, like this guy Matt,
41:15
who we hired in December to be like, help me develop cuz he's
41:19
and stuff he's like, and he's been in restaurants for a long
41:22
time, work for, he's worked for a lot of great chefs.
41:24
He's like, man, you have the perfect life.
41:26
And he said it, it could be a smart, it could come across as
41:30
someone being a smart ass or something.
41:31
But I looked at him as like, I truly do.
41:34
And like, what he meant was like, he knows I, I love my kids
41:37
and my wife and I have a great life out of work.
41:41
He knows that Burch is amazing and what we do there is great.
41:44
He sees me come in and he's like, it feels so great when you
41:47
walk around and talk to to coax the gas or whatever.
41:50
But like to me, when I leave work, my car ride home at night,
41:57
I call Meg, my wife and talk to her.
42:01
And I would say 98% of the time it's like, how was your night?
42:04
It was fucking awesome. Like, awesome on the way to
42:09
work. Oh, my God, I hate leaving, like
42:12
my kids, but I'm fucking excited to go to work.
42:15
Yeah. I just told you.
42:16
Like, I listen to podcasts. It's like, it's fun to.
42:20
I feel like I was like a basketball player or something
42:23
on the way to the game where it's like, I'm gonna get hyped
42:25
up. Yeah.
42:26
So I walk in there, I'm hit. Like, I'm ready to roll, you
42:29
know, So like cutting off. I don't know.
42:33
I I feel very fortunate to like, leave and be excited and the
42:39
same time know things are great and you know, yeah, I think that
42:44
comes with like the team and all that good stuff.
42:46
Do you do anything in particular like like ritual or anything
42:50
like that for you to to stay centered?
42:53
So my the one thing I care like my my one moment of the week
43:00
that I have to have. And if I'm traveling or what, I
43:03
don't get to have it on Sundays, I like to stay home, make dinner
43:09
and drink like killer wine. If I don't do that, I don't feel
43:16
like I ever reset. That's like my thing.
43:18
And like talking to the team about taking care of themselves
43:22
out of work and going out and drinking too much and stuff.
43:27
I bring that up a lot. It's like, look, you know, it's
43:29
OK to go out and drink. That's fine.
43:31
Like I'm telling you, I, I do it, you know, but find your,
43:37
find your thing that you release that you can look forward to.
43:42
1st off I think is important. But then do and and do it you
43:48
know? Like if you could go back in
43:51
time and and give that young version of you advice, like
43:54
maybe don't do this or do this, like what, what sort of course
44:00
correction would you give advice to yourself that might save you
44:05
some headaches later on, whether it's opening the restaurant or
44:08
even as a young chef when you were, you know, in New York?
44:15
I think this is a common thing I take.
44:19
I wish I took care of myself a little bit more out of work.
44:22
So after I opened it was Mazeville, New York and Kintons
44:26
New Orleans. I left the company after like 7
44:28
years and I created good habits. I lost a lot of weight.
44:35
I quit drinking a ton. And it showed me like, yeah, I'd
44:39
like did a great job before. I could have only done so much
44:43
better if I did that. And I think creating real
44:48
habits, I think they're like the probably the the shittiest thing
44:52
that when someone says like, oh, what?
44:53
What else do you love besides cooking?
44:57
There's not much there. It's like I love music, no
45:00
doubt, like I love my family and I love work and I love food and
45:05
I don't like I love wine. Very simple, you know, like I
45:09
don't play guitar and I like I like the bucks actually, I like
45:12
the NBA and that's like my my go to to really focus on.
45:15
But I wish earlier I would have found time to dig into something
45:24
to keep with me for a while. I'm.
45:28
Going to ask you just some random chef questions as we as
45:33
we start kind of getting close to to the anterior.
45:36
Let let's go through like your station, right, Your your work
45:40
in the past. Is that where you work normally?
45:46
I've actually tried not to as a recent we actually had a guest
45:50
who's a he comes in once a week and his wife, they own a awesome
45:54
coffee company in Milwaukee. He said at the counter by
45:58
himself and he's like, oh, you're ex rating tonight.
46:01
I'm like, yeah, he's like, I'm nervous.
46:03
You do that. I'm like really.
46:05
I think like a year ago. I really is like if we're going
46:09
to grow the CDC, Zach or when the sous chefs needs to to do
46:13
it. But I like, yeah, I will still
46:17
Expo and and do it And I think I'm very specific about
46:23
everything. So let's just say you're on the
46:27
line. Yeah, your work in the past.
46:29
You're calling tickets tonight. What's on your station?
46:33
A A cutting board. Is towel is there?
46:37
Is there a specific cutting board that you like?
46:39
Yeah, it's the. Hand one Yeah, yeah, yeah, the.
46:44
It has my initial polyethylene. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
46:46
So there's a towel that's clean, drenched and rolled up tight
46:51
that my knife sits on. If I use it, the chances are
46:55
probably not. Specific type of knife.
46:58
It's yeah, it's an Enoch slicer like, but I've, it's something
47:02
I've done for 15 years now. So yeah, like always, even like
47:09
Wednesday I was packing up food to come down here.
47:13
So the 1st 20 minutes, which I hate not starting service.
47:18
Like to me, someone told me a long time ago, it's like, get
47:22
your station prepped, grab espresso, go outside and drink
47:25
it OK and come back in. That's like the best thing
47:28
that's that's the best advice I've ever been given, I think.
47:31
Prep espresso, back, back. Yeah. 3-5 minutes, whatever it
47:35
is, just go like go do that and like that.
47:40
For me, I drink it and then I just walk around the dining room
47:43
and just even through service, I've always, if I have a harder
47:48
service, those are services. I didn't walk around the dining
47:53
room where I'm just, like, glued to, I don't know, you know, like
47:58
for service to work, the successful ones that are a
48:01
killer or like, I walked around the dining room 1015 times,
48:04
looked everybody in the eye and make sure we knew everybody that
48:07
was there. But.
48:08
So there's always a towel rolled up my slicer that makes me feel
48:13
like safe. Yeah.
48:15
And then you said you have your towels.
48:16
Folded next to you? Is that what you?
48:17
Said, oh, it's a towel rolled up and the knife tilted like the
48:21
tip sitting on the towel. Yeah, so that the knife doesn't
48:23
move. Yeah.
48:25
And is there whatever it needs to be, you know?
48:27
And like, to me, it's like, hey, like we have lamb ribs on the
48:30
menu. If the guy working the hearth
48:33
can't size them, he'll pass them up.
48:35
I'll pop them down. But then that towel in one
48:38
motion can wipe clean. Yeah.
48:40
And you can roll the other way. So it looks the exact same it
48:43
did right when you started, right?
48:44
So it looks like a little finance.
48:46
That's a little finance. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
48:48
It's, yeah, that's 100%. Somebody from Per SE taught me
48:52
that. Yeah.
48:53
Which means that's finesse, you know?
48:55
Yeah, Yeah. The clock's always in the exact
48:58
same spot. Everything's the same to where
49:00
like I went to stab a ticket on the server side the other night
49:04
and I'm like, where's the, where's the spike?
49:07
Like where why is that not there?
49:09
Yeah. And that's like we're.
49:11
Very you stack your tickets like very meticulously.
49:14
They're all straight, or not really.
49:17
It depends. I like getting throwing my
49:19
tickets away. Yeah.
49:20
So if I get 5 tickets on there, yeah, I'll throw them away.
49:24
Less clutter the better. Yeah.
49:25
Like one thing I struggle with the chefs that are wax right at
49:30
Birch now, they'll keep the yellow and white ticket the
49:32
whole time through someone's meal.
49:34
Yeah, like get rid of the white when you don't need it after
49:36
appetizers. Like that's an added piece of
49:39
something that could fuck shit up.
49:41
Yeah. And also like.
49:43
Visual clutter. Yeah, yeah.
49:44
Yeah, it's like get rid of that. What Salter is on your station?
49:49
Malden. Malden, Yeah.
49:52
What? What is the kitchen use?
49:55
Diamond crystal, which I after I moved to New York, so we, we
50:01
always used Morton's when I worked for Frank, moved to New
50:04
York, used diamond crystal. I never thought about it.
50:07
I was just a clock. I was like, yeah, whatever.
50:09
I went to help my mentor, Frank Thomas Keller was doing a book
50:13
tour for Ad Hoc and Dave Cruz is the chef.
50:18
And I remember them. I remember him saying, though
50:20
you only have Morton's. We had to figure this out.
50:23
I can't do this. And I was like, oh, that's
50:25
weird. Me now, like I can't, I can't
50:29
cope with it. It's like a handy.
50:31
It's like I fuck shit up. With Morton's, yeah, it's funny.
50:35
At home right now, I have Morton's, and I haven't had
50:37
Morton's in a long time, and it's so weird.
50:41
Like it. I don't know why every single
50:43
piece of Morton salt looks like it was mechanically cut.
50:45
Yeah, like it just has a weird Dexter.
50:48
To it and also like yeah you have no control with it yeah
50:50
like I don't I don't think I always when diamond crystals in
50:54
my fingers like grind it a little bit yeah but I.
50:57
Probably do a little bit. Yeah, yeah, yeah, this.
50:59
And it like it's just a habit. I do the same thing with mold on
51:02
before it goes on any meter. Oh yeah, yeah, just a little
51:04
crunch. But if I have Morton's at home,
51:08
I probably won't actually season the food because I'm like, I
51:11
don't want to do it because I'll, it'll be too salty.
51:13
I'm like, yeah, which Megan will be like, oh, dinner's good.
51:16
It's like, yeah, well. Yeah, Morton's.
51:19
I'm not a fan of Morton's. I like, I like diamond crystal.
51:21
Anyway, we digress. Acid, lemon, vinegar.
51:27
What do you? Do.
51:29
Or a combination of both. Combination like lemon is is
51:33
massive. My hat is acid and herbs and.
51:38
Cool hat by the way, who made it?
51:40
I did. You did?
51:40
Yeah. It's my handwriting.
51:41
Yeah, acid nerves. I have a lot of ideas and
51:46
thoughts behind where this could go, but yeah, right now it's
51:49
just the hat I wear. I gave them to everybody and no
51:52
one wear them. Yeah.
51:53
And it's like, oh, that's your hat.
51:55
Like a like a concert reference. Yeah, it's funny, like dads at
52:01
my son's school are like, yeah, acid nerves.
52:03
I'm like, no, I, I'm, I'm not going to the dead show like
52:07
that. You are, even though you're
52:08
like, whatever, but we get lemons 100%.
52:12
And what's cool obviously with the squeezer, the oils that
52:15
shoot off when you use it, it's like so like to me, lemon juice
52:19
in a bottle was like 100,000%. No, no.
52:22
So you, you bring something up. And so the other day I was in a
52:25
kitchen and I know what you mean by lemon squeezer, but I noticed
52:29
the other day is like fucking people have seeds in them.
52:32
And every single chef that I talked to that's like lemon
52:34
citrus, like we all know lemon squeezers.
52:37
No seats. Yeah.
52:38
But can you explain to people that are listening, how do you,
52:41
how do you cut a lemon squeezer where you're at?
52:44
Well, it's funny, like I had a sous chef that worked at the
52:47
Essex House when I worked at GT. His name was Joe.
52:50
He opened a restaurant called Dover in Battersby.
52:53
One of I think, most badass chefs I've ever worked with.
52:56
I remember him like yelling at somebody and it's like you're
52:58
wasting so much. Could you think you're because
53:02
it's it's easier, but to me you cut the barely cut the top off
53:05
the bottom off and you stand them up and you'll do it 1 by 1
53:09
because that's obviously dumb. So you line them all up and then
53:12
you cut them in quarters and then you take the inside out
53:18
just a little bit like barely great lemons.
53:22
You don't have to sit there and fuck with the seeds much, but
53:25
right and then you just pop the seeds out with their knife.
53:28
That's. It So they're not exactly lemon
53:30
cheeks then? Oh, no, no, these are like,
53:32
yeah, these are squeezers. Yeah, OK.
53:34
And there's. More where I'm like who fucking
53:36
cut these squeezers when they're like half I'm like yeah, this is
53:38
stupid yeah, this takes 8 to use on the dish and we're like I
53:43
mean my when we're flowing and having a great service you.
53:47
Ever just squeeze the lemon juice in advance?
53:48
Just put in bottles. No, I I hate it.
53:50
You hate it? Yeah.
53:51
Yeah, Big, big time. Why?
53:54
Like, you smell the bottle and you're like, yeah, Mike Anthony
53:58
would walk over to your station and he was cooking for AVIP.
54:02
You take your squeezer. Yeah.
54:04
He was squeezing his hand and taste it.
54:06
If you cut those squeezers the day before, it's like.
54:09
Really. Yeah, which is like.
54:11
I've never done that. I I don't do the juice in the
54:13
bottle, but I've seen people do it.
54:15
I know certain people like call me comes in juice for everybody.
54:18
I'm not a fan of it. I I definitely would never use
54:20
the lazy lemon. So I'm talking about the screen
54:24
over it. No, no, you buy it comes in a
54:26
jug like I would never use that. I always cut my lemons, but I've
54:31
seen, you know, some people I I know like the juice, like they,
54:34
they juice it and it goes out. I'm not a fan of that.
54:36
What about your tape? What's the tape in the kitchen,
54:39
chef? Is it green or is it blue or is
54:40
it Nah? It's blue and it's blue.
54:42
A lot of times I'm when I the last restaurant in New York that
54:46
I opened, it was green. Yeah, yeah.
54:50
And I was like, OK, we're we's blue at Gray.
54:52
And I was like, I'm one of the dupe blue.
54:53
And a lot of times I'm like, I want to switch back to green and
54:57
I was like, it would be a lot of work.
54:59
I was talking about Aaron Bluder and I were talking about this.
55:02
He's like team, team Blue like this Danielle Blue or Thomas
55:05
Keller Green. Yeah, right.
55:06
That's true. Like. 100% and like Mike Anthony
55:10
came from Danielle and it's like that's why we use blue a GTIS,
55:14
you know the Green's tighter but.
55:17
I like, it's easier to read. It's a that's why, Yeah.
55:20
So you're in a walk in. Yeah.
55:21
And like, you know, yeah. But we have like so many Pickles
55:25
and shit. It's like I don't want blue and
55:27
green. So we're not changing.
55:29
What's something that you do in the kitchen that you think a lot
55:33
of people would benefit from knowing this?
55:35
Like is there? Is there something that's very
55:37
unique to your kitchen? Like a processor?
55:40
A procedure? I mean, I do think like the
55:42
lemon squeezer is ever. A lot of people do it.
55:45
Yeah. To us, it's like, like we go
55:50
through probably 12 quarts of squeezers a night.
55:52
So it's like really big when I make like when we make any kind
55:59
of soup or I like using canola oil and stuff where the guy that
56:06
works with me now it's like, well, you're just hiding the
56:09
flavor with canola. My answer is like canola doesn't
56:12
have any flavor. So like use canola as a tool to
56:17
make something have great mouthfeel?
56:19
Yeah, like unctuousness. Yeah, yeah.
56:21
I think that's important to like when I make a chilled soup or or
56:25
whatever, we always use a little bit of XG, just a tiny, tiny
56:29
bit, but then definitely a canola oil.
56:36
If you had like Mount Rushmore chefs out there.
56:38
Yeah. Who'd you?
56:39
Who'd you put up there? Yeah, why you laugh.
56:42
Because I've listened to your episodes, I'm like, well, what?
56:45
Who's your yeah? Who's the Mount Rushmore?
56:48
I mean, I think Thomas Keller, like, yeah, to me, I didn't
56:54
change 80% of American chefs lives.
57:00
I'd say maybe more. I mean, I I'm fortunate and it's
57:06
according to say, but like Frank Stitt and Mike Anthony are my
57:09
mentors and to me they're on there.
57:15
They they obviously changed my life.
57:18
Alice Waters I think Jose Andreas is like is like has
57:25
taken the thought of like we've said a few times of restaurants
57:28
should have great food that should be understood.
57:31
Man. This guy has like fun, amazing
57:34
restaurants. The food is incredible and fun,
57:38
but he's changing the world that's like that he's.
57:41
Living it right like he's fucking walking the talk.
57:44
Yeah. And like everything he does is
57:46
great. It's like, how does he do this?
57:48
Now? If you're in Mexico City in a
57:49
hotel and you're at whatever the restaurant is, it's not just
57:54
delicious, but like pretty and fun.
57:56
Because I, I always like in New York, we go out to a fancy
58:01
restaurant and it's like, oh, it's good.
58:02
But you can tell they don't use grape produce.
58:06
Always love La Berne and Den because it's seafood focused
58:09
until it's like great, you know, it sucks to go have an amazing
58:12
meal and be like, these vegetables kind of suck.
58:16
Jose Andres food always has a ton of flavor.
58:20
It doesn't rely on produce, obviously, but he's like, he's
58:24
he's fucking awesome. Yeah.
58:25
Yeah, he's, he's good. If you had a chef's PSA out
58:28
there, what what is it? Be thoughtful and treat
58:34
everything and everyone how you want to be treated.
58:37
Awesome. I know it's like a easy thing,
58:40
but it's true, you know? Golden Rule.
58:42
Yeah, to me, if I you don't want to feel isolated, you don't
58:47
want, you don't want people working for you to feel like
58:52
afraid, threatened or isolated because they're not going to
58:55
cook with love. Yeah.
58:58
And so it's going to suck. So like, don't put anyone in in
59:01
don't put anyone in that position.
59:04
Well, where can people find you if they want to continue to
59:06
follow along? My Instagram is Kyle naul y'all
59:10
my wife came up with it. One of the best handles I think
59:13
out there. Birch, Unpleasant, Kassis, Mke
59:20
and yeah, Birch, Yeah, in Milwaukee.
59:22
We'll have to come see you, Chef.
59:23
Yeah, please. Yeah.
59:24
We'll have you back on soon. I.
59:25
Love that. Awesome.
59:26
Thanks so much. Yeah.
59:27
Well, I hope you enjoyed the show.
59:29
You know what to do and make sure you leave five stars if
59:31
you're listening on Spotify or anywhere really.
59:33
If you're watching on YouTube, hit the like and subscribe
59:34
button. I'd completely revamped the
59:37
chef's PSA store, shop.chefspsa.com.
59:40
My team added a ton of new items.
59:43
I advise you to go check it out. Just peruse, look around, maybe
59:46
you see something nice that you like.
59:47
Keep supporting the show. Go to chefspsa.com You get
59:50
books, obviously the merch, early access to episodes on sub
59:54
stack and Spotify for premium members.
59:56
We'll see you next week. Hit the porno music.
59:59
No small drink in the kitchen. Mix it.
1:00:01
Drop the chef knowledge. No fiction.
1:00:03
Stirring up the BT enough the session.
1:00:06
Listen. Close classes in session.