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Ghost Hunters Murder - Debbie and Mark Constantino · Wicked and Grim: A True Crime Podcast

0:07
Speaker 1: They built a career investigating haunted locations, communicating with the dead,
0:12
Speaker 1: and appearing on one of television's most popular paranormal shows.
0:17
Speaker 1: But behind the cameras, their marriage was unraveling amidst allegations
0:22
Speaker 1: of domestic violence, bitter confrontations, and a separation that became
0:27
Speaker 1: increasingly dangerous. Then on September 2nd, 2015, it all came
0:33
Speaker 1: to a violent end, leaving behind a disturbing story of obsession, betrayal,
0:39
Speaker 1: and the demons that haunted a seemingly ordinary marriage. This
0:44
Speaker 1: is the story of Mark and Debbie Constantino. My name's Ben.
0:51
Speaker 2: I'm Nicole, and you're listening to Wicked and Grim, a
0:54
Speaker 2: true crime podcast.
1:05
Speaker 3: We did something earlier this week we haven't done in
1:16
Speaker 3: a long time on this show, and we missed an episode.
1:35
Speaker 1: For good reason, we got ridiculously sick. In fact, we
1:39
Speaker 1: are still sick. I'm recovering, but Nicole caught it later
1:42
Speaker 1: than me. So she's still in the midst of it.
1:46
Speaker 2: She's surviving. Yeah, I'm doing okay. My voice is just
1:49
Speaker 2: like pretty weak. So I don't know if it's going
1:52
Speaker 2: to last the whole episode. So we're going to just
1:54
Speaker 2: have me in the intro and the outro and Ben's
1:56
Speaker 2: going to guide you through the case.
1:58
Speaker 1: Yeah. So it's most like at the beginning here right now,
2:01
Speaker 1: how we're kind of chatting, Nicole's here. And then I'm
2:04
Speaker 1: going to go through the whole case with just you
2:07
Speaker 1: guys and me. Nicole's going to be here listening too.
2:10
Speaker 1: But she's not going to chime in like she usually does.
2:12
Speaker 1: And then at the end, she'll talk with us a
2:14
Speaker 1: little bit again about the case and the story. I mean,
2:17
Speaker 1: if you do have something you want to say in
2:19
Speaker 1: the meantime, feel free. But we're not expecting you to
2:23
Speaker 1: chime in in the middle of the episode this time.
2:25
Speaker 2: Pop up from the couch and wait, wait, I have
2:27
Speaker 2: something to say.
2:28
Speaker 1: You might do that.
2:29
Speaker 4: Who knows?
2:30
Speaker 1: That's totally fine if that's the case.
2:31
Speaker 4: Yeah.
2:33
Speaker 1: But I do want to say one thing before I
2:34
Speaker 1: do forget. With us not doing Tuesday's episode, we missed
2:39
Speaker 1: shouting out our patrons who signed up over on Patreon
2:42
Speaker 1: this week. So a big shout out, it's a big list,
2:45
Speaker 1: to Marissa Shoemate, Big Meg, Ben Morton Corre, Christina Brooks, Alejandro,
2:53
Speaker 1: Brittany Bradley, Lisa McMaster, Evelyn Grove, Curb, Melissa Medley, and
3:00
Speaker 1: Miss Melz. Thank you very much for signing up on Patreon.
3:04
Speaker 1: You guys are incredible. And they're going to have some
3:07
Speaker 1: cool stuff for Halloween week, which we are going to
3:10
Speaker 1: hopefully be healed up just in time for. That starts
3:13
Speaker 1: in two days.
3:14
Speaker 2: That is such an exciting list of people. And honestly,
3:18
Speaker 2: it's never the right time to get sick, but it
3:19
Speaker 2: was better to get sick this week than next.
3:22
Speaker 1: That's true. I mean, if we were to throw a
3:24
Speaker 1: dart at a dartboard and the bullseye was us getting
3:29
Speaker 1: sick on Halloween week, we would have hit the metal
3:32
Speaker 1: rim on the outside of the bullseye is how our
3:35
Speaker 1: shot would have been. We were that freaking close.
3:39
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's terrifying because I don't know what that would mean.
3:42
Speaker 2: But anyway, we don't have to worry. It's good. Oh, yeah.
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Speaker 1: Thankfully, it's all good. And we're going to have a
3:47
Speaker 1: great Halloween week. But I think we should not put
3:50
Speaker 1: your voice on too much stress and I should just
3:53
Speaker 1: dive into the story. How's that sound?
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Speaker 2: Let's do that.
3:55
Speaker 1: Okay, go get comfy over on the couch and let's
3:58
Speaker 1: get into the story. Deborah Angelo, or better known as Debbie,
4:03
Speaker 1: was born on October 17th in 1962 in New Jersey,
4:07
Speaker 1: where she reportedly spent much of her childhood in the
4:10
Speaker 1: town of Totowa. And according to her accounts of her upbringing,
4:14
Speaker 1: her family experienced some considerable financial difficulties. Now, at one point,
4:20
Speaker 1: they lived in a modest house situated beside a cemetery,
4:23
Speaker 1: something that would actually become an important part of Debbie's
4:27
Speaker 1: fascination with the supernatural. Now, Debbie claimed that her childhood
4:31
Speaker 1: home was haunted. And beginning when she was approximately five
4:35
Speaker 1: or even six years old, she described experiencing unexplained temperature changes,
4:41
Speaker 1: hearing whispers or voices, and seeing unusual shadows moving all
4:46
Speaker 1: around the house. She also recalled objects seemingly moving or
4:50
Speaker 1: disappearing with no explanations at all. Now, although these were
4:57
Speaker 1: her personal experiences rather than independently established paranormal events, Debbie
5:03
Speaker 1: maintained that they had a lasting influence on her and
5:07
Speaker 1: her interests. So as she grew older, Debbie began reading
5:11
Speaker 1: extensively about ghosts, hauntings, and the possibility of life after death.
5:16
Speaker 1: She became fascinated with the infamous Amityville Horror House in
5:20
Speaker 1: Long Island, New York, and wanted to go visit the
5:23
Speaker 1: property even when she was just 14 years old. Now, eventually,
5:28
Speaker 1: Debbie even came to believe that she herself possessed an
5:31
Speaker 1: unusual sensitivity to supernatural activity. She explained in interviews that
5:36
Speaker 1: similar experiences seemed to follow her between her residences, wherever
5:41
Speaker 1: she lived, leading her to believe that rather than the
5:44
Speaker 1: building being haunted, she might actually be responsible for attracting
5:49
Speaker 1: the paranormal phenomena. Now, despite her interests in the supernatural, though,
5:55
Speaker 1: Debbie initially supported herself through very conventional employment. She worked
6:00
Speaker 1: in retail and other positions before finding employment at a
6:03
Speaker 1: bar called Churchill's in her early 20s. And it was
6:07
Speaker 1: there that she met Mark Anthony Constantino. Mark was born
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Speaker 1: on January 30th, 1962 in New Jersey. He reportedly grew
6:17
Speaker 1: up in a large Catholic family as one of eight
6:19
Speaker 1: children and had considerably more traditional religious upbringings than Debbie
6:25
Speaker 1: ever did. And although he was interested in some unusual
6:28
Speaker 1: things himself, Mark was initially skeptical of ghosts and paranormal investigations.
6:35
Speaker 1: But that began to change as he became more involved
6:38
Speaker 1: with Debbie, who introduced him to her beliefs and her
6:42
Speaker 1: interests in communicating with the dead. Now, the couple developed
6:46
Speaker 1: their relationship together during the late 1980s and got married
6:48
Speaker 1: in in 1989, with Debra changing her last name from
6:53
Speaker 1: Angelo to Constantino. Their family history isn't entirely clear from
6:59
Speaker 1: what I could find, as they kept their personal life
7:02
Speaker 1: quite private. But I did find that Debbie reportedly gave
7:05
Speaker 1: birth to a set of twin daughters named Sienna and
7:09
Speaker 1: Alyssa in 1991. And unfortunately, tragedy would strike as Sienna
7:16
Speaker 1: died when she was approximately only six months old. The
7:19
Speaker 1: couple did also have another daughter together, and they named
7:22
Speaker 1: her Raquel. Now, the loss of their baby daughter, Sienna,
7:27
Speaker 1: became an important influence on the couple's interest in life
7:30
Speaker 1: after death. Deborah already believed in spirits and that they
7:34
Speaker 1: could communicate with the living, and Mark reportedly became increasingly
7:37
Speaker 1: interested in whether some form of consciousness might actually survive
7:42
Speaker 1: physical death. So soon, their paranormal interests, and even subsequent investigations,
7:49
Speaker 1: soon developed into a shared pursuit. So by approximately the
7:55
Speaker 1: year 2000, the Constantinos were living in Reno, Nevada, where
7:59
Speaker 1: they began becoming more and more involved in the regional
8:03
Speaker 1: paranormal community. They attended conferences, visited reportedly haunted locations, and
8:10
Speaker 1: developed an interest particularly in electronic voice phenomena, or commonly
8:14
Speaker 1: abbreviated to EVP. Now an EVP Well, this refers to
8:20
Speaker 1: an unexplained sound, noises, or even apparent voices that are
8:25
Speaker 1: captured on audio recordings that paranormal investigators interpret as possible
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Speaker 1: communications from spirits. So how it works is investigators typically
8:36
Speaker 1: record audio in locations that they believe, or someone believes,
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Speaker 1: is haunted in some way. They can leave the recorder
8:43
Speaker 1: just recording at all times on its own, quiet, Or
8:48
Speaker 1: they can be asking questions during a questioning type session.
8:52
Speaker 1: Then after it's all done, they play back the recordings.
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Speaker 1: They try to identify any sounds as they listen closely.
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Speaker 1: Sounds that were not noticed during the original sessions. Sounds
9:04
Speaker 1: that can't be explained. Things like disembodied voices, footsteps, or
9:10
Speaker 1: even direct answers to questions that were asked. Mark and
9:14
Speaker 1: Debbie became particularly interested in this technique, eventually building up
9:18
Speaker 1: much of their professional identity around capturing and interpreting these
9:23
Speaker 1: alleged spiritual voices. Now, an important figure in their development
9:28
Speaker 1: was paranormal researcher and author Janice Oberding, who became acquainted
9:32
Speaker 1: with the couple through Nevada's paranormal community. In 2004, Mark
9:37
Speaker 1: reportedly attended a ghost hunting class at Truckee Meadows Community College,
9:43
Speaker 1: taught by Janice. Debbie, however, didn't attend the class herself,
9:47
Speaker 1: so Mark recorded the material for her. The couple subsequently
9:52
Speaker 1: attended paranormal gatherings and investigations associated with Janice, including events
9:57
Speaker 1: in Virginia City, Nevada. Janice helped introduce the Constantinos to
10:02
Speaker 1: other people involved in paranormal research and entertainment, and through
10:06
Speaker 1: these connections they expanded their investigations beyond the Nevada area,
10:10
Speaker 1: visiting locations with reputations for supernatural activity and attending events
10:15
Speaker 1: where investigators could exchange techniques recordings, and experiences. At some
10:21
Speaker 1: point during their investigations, Mark and Debbie also claimed to
10:26
Speaker 1: have captured, though, an EVP recording that they believed contained
10:30
Speaker 1: the voice of their deceased daughter, Sienna. Now, the recorded
10:34
Speaker 1: voice sounded considerably older than a six-month-old infant would, but
10:40
Speaker 1: Debbie reportedly explained that this could be that spirits might
10:45
Speaker 1: continue to age after death in some situations. Now, this
10:49
Speaker 1: recording became extremely personal and very meaningful to the couple,
10:53
Speaker 1: who did share it with other investigators and acquaintances. Now,
10:57
Speaker 1: as their experience grew, the Constantinos began offering paranormal investigation
11:03
Speaker 1: services to members of the public. Their promotional material reportedly
11:08
Speaker 1: included the statement, quote, End quote. And they investigated.
11:16
Speaker 1: Private residences, businesses, and locations associated with unexplained occurrences, increasingly
11:23
Speaker 1: establishing themselves as specializing in EVP recordings. Now, eventually their
11:29
Speaker 1: work even attracted attention from paranormal television producers. So by
11:34
Speaker 1: the late 2000s, Mark and Debbie were appearing in paranormal programming,
11:39
Speaker 1: most notably on the Travel Channel, in the series you
11:42
Speaker 1: might know, Ghost Adventures. which premiered in October of 2008.
11:47
Speaker 1: The show was hosted by Zach Baggins, alongside investigators Nick
11:54
Speaker 1: Groff and Aaron Goodwin, and the series followed the team
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Speaker 1: as they investigated locations reputed to be haunted. Now, Mark
12:02
Speaker 1: and Debbie appeared as guest EVP specialists, bringing recording equipment
12:08
Speaker 1: and participating in investigations at locations including Nevada's Goldfield Hotel,
12:13
Speaker 1: the Mustang Ranch, and San Francisco's Market Street Cinema. Their
12:19
Speaker 1: TV appearances continued through approximately 2011, introducing them to a
12:24
Speaker 1: much larger audience than they had reached through independent investigations
12:28
Speaker 1: on their own. Between the two, Debbie was generally the
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Speaker 1: more outspoken of them, and she was very enthusiastic too.
12:38
Speaker 1: She was frequently discussing her claims of sensitivity to spirits
12:42
Speaker 1: and interpreting the recordings and going on and being so excited,
12:46
Speaker 1: but Mark, well, he was much more reserved. He was
12:49
Speaker 1: concentrating on the equipment, the technical aspects of their investigations,
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Speaker 1: but together they developed a very easily recognizable working relationship.
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Speaker 1: They regularly exchanged remarks, disagreed over interpretations, and occasionally even
13:04
Speaker 1: teased one another during appearances on TV, which honestly doesn't
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Speaker 1: sound too far off from what we kind of do
13:11
Speaker 1: on the show. I mean, I'm sitting here with Sicko
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Speaker 1: over on the couch. She's listening and flipping me the
13:16
Speaker 1: bird now, but she's there. Anyways, I digress. By the
13:21
Speaker 1: beginning of the 2010s, the Constantinos had become recognizable personalities
13:26
Speaker 1: within the paranormal community, quite established in fact. And as
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Speaker 1: Mark and Debbie Constantino became more and more involved, they
13:35
Speaker 1: developed friendships with other investigators too, who regularly accompanied them
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Speaker 1: to conferences, investigations, and events all across the United States.
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Speaker 1: Among them was Janice Oberding, who had worked with them before.
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Speaker 1: And although Mark and Debbie generally presented themselves as an
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Speaker 1: enthusiastic married couple, Janice gradually became familiar with the more
13:58
Speaker 1: complicated side of their relationship. According to Janice, Debbie was
14:03
Speaker 1: particularly sensitive about her appearance and worried about Mark's attention
14:07
Speaker 1: towards other women. During one conversation when Debbie was reportedly
14:12
Speaker 1: around 43 years old, she discussed the possibility of even
14:16
Speaker 1: undergoing cosmetic surgery. She claimed Mark had told her that
14:19
Speaker 1: she reached an age where her appearance was deteriorating, which
14:23
Speaker 1: was something that left her feeling increasingly insecure about herself.
14:28
Speaker 1: Debbie reportedly went ahead with the procedure, although exactly what
14:31
Speaker 1: surgery she underwent is unclear, and honestly, I didn't dig
14:35
Speaker 1: because it's a personal matter of hers, and I thought
14:38
Speaker 1: I'd just leave it that way. But Janice also described
14:41
Speaker 1: witnessing arguments between the couple, too. On one occasion in Alabama,
14:46
Speaker 1: while riding in a vehicle with Mark, Debbie, Janice, and
14:49
Speaker 1: Janice's husband, the conversation reportedly turned to Mark's previous marriage.
14:55
Speaker 1: Debbie began complaining about his former wife, who she accused
14:59
Speaker 1: of attempting to try and contact their children, likely from
15:03
Speaker 1: my assumption, in order to try and find out details
15:06
Speaker 1: of their life. She explained that she did not want
15:10
Speaker 1: the woman knowing where the family lived, and was particularly
15:13
Speaker 1: upset that she had previously contacted their kids even. Mark, however,
15:18
Speaker 1: dismissed the subject. It was an old disagreement, but Debbie
15:22
Speaker 1: continued questioning whether he was still in contact with his
15:26
Speaker 1: ex-wife or not. The exchange escalated more and became increasingly hostile,
15:31
Speaker 1: with Mark eventually swearing at Debbie. Other incidents also reportedly
15:36
Speaker 1: involved Debbie's suspicion about women speaking with Mark during paranormal
15:40
Speaker 1: events too. According to one account, she became very angry
15:44
Speaker 1: after observing Mark discussing astrology with two women at a gathering,
15:49
Speaker 1: and soon the conversation escalated into an argument between the
15:52
Speaker 1: couple in front of other attendees. Janice was becoming more
15:57
Speaker 1: and more concerned that the increasingly public disputes were affecting
16:01
Speaker 1: the Constantinos' reputation. Their professional work required them to travel,
16:05
Speaker 1: cooperate with other investigators, and participate in events where attendees
16:10
Speaker 1: even had to pay to spend time with them. So
16:14
Speaker 1: as their disagreements became more frequent, those relationships grew increasingly
16:19
Speaker 1: difficult to maintain. Then in June of 2012, the Constantinos
16:25
Speaker 1: reportedly participated in a paranormal investigation at the historic Wash
16:30
Speaker 1: U Club in Virginia City, Nevada. Guests had paid approximately
16:35
Speaker 1: $ 100 each to attend this event. which included an opportunity
16:39
Speaker 1: to investigate the supposedly haunted building with the couple directly. However,
16:47
Speaker 1: Debbie reportedly consumed a considerable amount of alcohol that night
16:51
Speaker 1: and became visibly intoxicated. She reportedly struggled to remain steady
16:56
Speaker 1: on her feet and began arguing loudly with Mark in
16:59
Speaker 1: front of these paying attendees. Now, despite her condition, though,
17:03
Speaker 1: she participated in one EVP session. but some guests were
17:08
Speaker 1: reportedly so dissatisfied with the experience that they requested refunds
17:12
Speaker 1: almost immediately. Then the following month, in July of 2012,
17:16
Speaker 1: the couple's marital problems resulted in the police getting involved.
17:23
Speaker 1: According to police and court records, an argument involving Mark, Debbie,
17:28
Speaker 1: and one of their daughters escalated inside the family's home.
17:32
Speaker 1: According to the reports... Debbie had been drinking when a
17:35
Speaker 1: disagreement developed between her and her daughter. The argument escalated
17:41
Speaker 1: to a point that Debbie allegedly attempted to force the
17:44
Speaker 1: daughter out of the house. Then, Mark intervened. Debbie reportedly
17:49
Speaker 1: pushed him and the confrontation resulted in her arrest on
17:53
Speaker 1: suspicion of domestic violence. Other accounts of the incident describe
17:57
Speaker 1: Mark suffering scratches and alleged injuries even involving a knife.
18:02
Speaker 1: Although the precise circumstances surrounding those claims, it's a little unclear.
18:07
Speaker 1: But following the confrontation, Mark actually applied for a temporary
18:11
Speaker 1: protective order against Debbie, telling the court that he was
18:15
Speaker 1: afraid she might stab him while intoxicated. However, he withdrew
18:20
Speaker 1: the application the following day. This arrest and withdrawn protective
18:25
Speaker 1: order application marked the documented escalation in their marital disputes.
18:31
Speaker 1: And unfortunately, their professional relationship also continued to experience more
18:36
Speaker 1: difficulties as well. You see, during an appearance at the
18:40
Speaker 1: Stanley Hotel in Estes Park, Colorado, where paranormal investigator Dave
18:45
Speaker 1: Schrader was reportedly hosting an event, Mark and Debbie became
18:49
Speaker 1: involved in another serious argument. Reportedly, Mark left the hotel
18:54
Speaker 1: and returned to Reno without participating in the event as planned.
18:57
Speaker 1: Dave was frustrated over this incident and their behavior to
19:01
Speaker 1: say the least. And he warned them that their disagreements
19:05
Speaker 1: could damage their careers if they continued interfering with professional
19:09
Speaker 1: commitments like this. And he was right. In fact, by
19:13
Speaker 1: this period, the Constantinos were already experiencing problems maintaining relationships
19:18
Speaker 1: with the paranormal community. Janice reportedly questioned some of the
19:22
Speaker 1: EVP recordings that the couple presented as evidence of supernatural communication.
19:28
Speaker 1: And during an investigation, at Nevada's Goldfield Hotel, she believed
19:33
Speaker 1: certain sounds identified as spirit voices were actually recordings of
19:39
Speaker 1: her own voice. According to her account, she challenged these
19:43
Speaker 1: EVPs but was unable to persuade the couple. They stood firm.
19:48
Speaker 1: The disagreement continued. contributed to a huge deterioration in their friendship,
19:53
Speaker 1: and Janice eventually began to distance herself from both Mark
19:58
Speaker 1: and Debbie. Other paranormal investigators reportedly became reluctant to include
20:03
Speaker 1: the Constantinos in public events too, and as the opportunities declined,
20:07
Speaker 1: the couple faced increasing financial difficulties. Later accounts describe Mark
20:12
Speaker 1: and Debbie having to begin taking conventional jobs once again.
20:17
Speaker 1: They reportedly sold some of their paranormal investigation equipment to
20:20
Speaker 1: just raise additional funds. But their financial problems were occurring
20:25
Speaker 1: alongside the continuing arguments at home. And police were apparently
20:30
Speaker 1: repeatedly involved in incidents involving the couple, with claims that
20:34
Speaker 1: officers were called to their residences approximately 12 times between
20:38
Speaker 1: 2012 and 2015 alone. And by early 2015, the arguments
20:45
Speaker 1: between the two were becoming increasingly serious. The financial disagreements
20:49
Speaker 1: contributing to an already troubled marriage, it was a boiling pot.
20:55
Speaker 1: And in March of that year, police reportedly responded to
20:58
Speaker 1: another disturbance at the Constantino residence after a neighbor heard
21:02
Speaker 1: shouting and dialed 911. According to reporting by the New
21:07
Speaker 1: York Post, the couple had been arguing in their kitchen
21:10
Speaker 1: about money when Debbie, who had allegedly been drinking, grabbed
21:14
Speaker 1: a grapefruit knife and slashed Mark across the forearm with it.
21:19
Speaker 1: Mark reportedly told officers that these kinds of arguments were
21:23
Speaker 1: an everyday occurrence in their household. So Debbie was subsequently
21:27
Speaker 1: arrested on suspicion of domestic battery. Then in July of 2015,
21:31
Speaker 1: Mark filed another application for for a temporary protective order
21:35
Speaker 1: against Debbie in Washoe County District Court. This one described
21:40
Speaker 1: the incident, which reportedly involved a credit card debt. Then
21:44
Speaker 1: Debbie grabbed a knife and swung it towards him. In
21:48
Speaker 1: his written statement, Mark described the confrontation, saying, quote, she
21:52
Speaker 1: grabbed a knife, swiped at me, end quote. And he
21:57
Speaker 1: claimed that after threatening to call police, Debbie began screaming
22:01
Speaker 1: and went into another room. According to Mark, she then
22:04
Speaker 1: shouted accusations that he had threatened to rape her. Now
22:09
Speaker 1: although Mark initially obtained temporary protection, the court ultimately declined
22:14
Speaker 1: to extend the order when he failed to attend the
22:17
Speaker 1: scheduled meeting. Now around this period, Debbie began working more
22:21
Speaker 1: closely with a spiritual advisor and life coach named Rebecca Evans.
22:27
Speaker 1: And according to her later accounts, Rebecca had been advising
22:30
Speaker 1: Debbie for approximately three years before and had become increasingly
22:34
Speaker 1: concerned about her marriage. So Rebecca reportedly encouraged her to
22:38
Speaker 1: consult attorneys, develop a plan for leaving, and establish somewhere
22:43
Speaker 1: safe that she can go live. And by the summer
22:46
Speaker 1: of 2015, Debbie had moved out of the home and
22:49
Speaker 1: was now staying with friends in northwest Reno. Among them
22:54
Speaker 1: were Summer Myers and James Anderson, also known as Jimmy.
23:00
Speaker 1: It was an arrangement that provided Debbie with somewhere to
23:02
Speaker 1: stay while she attempted to separate her personal life from Mark's.
23:06
Speaker 1: But despite the separation, the couple remained connected through their children,
23:10
Speaker 1: their pets, their belongings. And in early August, Mark began
23:14
Speaker 1: contacting Debbie, reportedly sending her messages, encouraging her to return home.
23:21
Speaker 1: He also told her that one of their dogs, well,
23:24
Speaker 1: he got out, he escaped, which prompted Debbie to consider
23:27
Speaker 1: returning to help search for the dog. She was concerned,
23:31
Speaker 1: you know, about the animal, who wouldn't be concerned about
23:33
Speaker 1: their dog. But she was reluctant to visit Mark alone.
23:37
Speaker 1: So she therefore arranged for Summer to accompany her. And
23:42
Speaker 1: the confrontation that followed was reported to Reno police on
23:46
Speaker 1: August 7th, 2015. According to an official police statement, when
23:52
Speaker 1: Debbie and Summer arrived to help look for the dog,
23:55
Speaker 1: Mark and the Constantino's 23-year-old daughter, Raquel, they were at home.
24:02
Speaker 1: And according to Debbie's subsequent application for a protective order,
24:05
Speaker 1: her daughter Raquel opened the vehicle door and began physically
24:09
Speaker 1: attacking her friend Summer. Then Mark approached Debbie and forcibly
24:14
Speaker 1: removed her from the vehicle. In her written statement, Debbie
24:18
Speaker 1: described being dragged into the home, saying that Mark handled
24:22
Speaker 1: her like a rag doll. Then once inside, Debbie alleged
24:27
Speaker 1: that Mark repeatedly attacked punched and assaulted her, while Raquel
24:32
Speaker 1: was also participating in the attack too. And according to
24:35
Speaker 1: Debbie's account, the assault continued for approximately an hour, during
24:39
Speaker 1: which she was dragged between rooms and repeatedly even strangled.
24:44
Speaker 1: She reported losing consciousness and even suffered a broken nose
24:48
Speaker 1: through it all. Debbie described Mark making repeated threats against
24:53
Speaker 1: her life, and in her protective order statement, she claimed
24:57
Speaker 1: he said, quote, She also reported noticing that a razor
25:08
Speaker 1: Mark normally kept among his work belongings was missing from
25:12
Speaker 1: its usual spot. And given his threats, Debbie feared he
25:15
Speaker 1: might use it against her. Meanwhile, Summer was attempting to
25:20
Speaker 1: escape the confrontation on hand. Raquel had attacked her outside
25:24
Speaker 1: the residence, leaving her with injuries, which included a black eye,
25:27
Speaker 1: but Summer eventually managed to get away and called the
25:30
Speaker 1: police for assistance. Officers arrived while Debbie was still at
25:34
Speaker 1: the property, and in her subsequent statement, Debbie expressed her
25:38
Speaker 1: belief that the police intervention had saved her life, writing,
25:44
Speaker 1: if the police had not gotten there in time, I
25:47
Speaker 1: absolutely would have been dead. Now, police arrested both Mark
25:54
Speaker 1: and Raquel after this incident. Mark was accused of first-degree kidnapping,
25:59
Speaker 1: domestic battery by strangulation, and first-degree domestic battery, while Raquel
26:04
Speaker 1: faced allegations including kidnapping, domestic battery, and vehicular burglary. Now,
26:11
Speaker 1: these were serious charges, particularly the allegation that Mark had
26:15
Speaker 1: strangled Debbie until she lost consciousness. Now, following their arrest, though,
26:20
Speaker 1: both Mark and Raquel were were released on bail, just
26:24
Speaker 1: simply waiting for further court proceedings. And following the incident,
26:29
Speaker 1: Debbie sought additional legal protection from Mark and Raquel both.
26:32
Speaker 1: And by August 10th, she had reportedly submitted applications for
26:36
Speaker 1: temporary protective orders against the two of them. In those documents,
26:41
Speaker 1: Debbie described the physical violence, the threats, and the circumstances
26:44
Speaker 1: that led her to fear for her safety. She also
26:47
Speaker 1: explained that she had already been living away from Mark
26:50
Speaker 1: when she returned to the residence because of concerns for
26:52
Speaker 1: the dog. Summer likewise had to deal with the consequences
26:57
Speaker 1: of the confrontation, and she even sought out therapy afterwards
27:00
Speaker 1: to deal with the emotional effects of the assault. Now,
27:04
Speaker 1: following that August 2015 assault, Debbie continued living with her
27:08
Speaker 1: friends in Northwest Reno, where she was attempting to establish
27:12
Speaker 1: some independence after years of these marital problems, while the
27:15
Speaker 1: criminal proceedings against her husband and her daughter were moving forward.
27:20
Speaker 1: The residence was located at 2305 Escalera Court in a
27:25
Speaker 1: residential neighborhood of Reno, Nevada. And these friends that Debbie
27:29
Speaker 1: shared the home with were Summer Myers and James Anderson, who,
27:32
Speaker 1: as I said, was commonly known as Jimmy. Now, Jimmy
27:35
Speaker 1: was born on January 14th, 1960. He was 55 years old.
27:40
Speaker 1: He was described as very generous, friendly, dependable. He was
27:44
Speaker 1: someone who enjoyed bringing food to social gatherings and making
27:47
Speaker 1: sure those around him were looked after. which is likely
27:51
Speaker 1: exactly why he welcomed Debbie to stay in the house. Now,
27:54
Speaker 1: Debbie was also working towards formally ending her marriage. And
27:59
Speaker 1: September 10th, 2015, marked an important development in those proceedings.
28:05
Speaker 1: Debbie requested a dissolution of her marriage to Mark, along
28:10
Speaker 1: with temporary spousal support and payment of her attorney's fees.
28:15
Speaker 1: Financial concerns formed a substantial part of her application. Debbie
28:20
Speaker 1: reported that Mark controlled the couple's money and he was
28:23
Speaker 1: rapidly draining their accounts. Now the two had worked together
28:27
Speaker 1: as years as paranormal investigators and their professional activities had
28:32
Speaker 1: become intertwined with their personal finances. And with the marriage ending,
28:37
Speaker 1: Debbie wanted to retain the control of the paranormal investigation business.
28:42
Speaker 1: After all, it's what she had always been so passionate about.
28:46
Speaker 1: And in her court paperwork, She reportedly argued that she
28:49
Speaker 1: had created the business, and that Mark had become involved
28:53
Speaker 1: through their relationship. She also claimed that his professional reputation
28:58
Speaker 1: had deteriorated, making him less credible within the paranormal community.
29:03
Speaker 1: Her relationship with Rebecca Evans as her spiritual advisor and
29:06
Speaker 1: life coach also continued during this period, too. And according
29:10
Speaker 1: to her later interviews with her, Rebecca had spent several
29:13
Speaker 1: years encouraging Debbie to consider leaving Mark. because she had
29:17
Speaker 1: become more and more worried about the violence within the marriage.
29:21
Speaker 1: She had said that she even discussed possible legal options
29:25
Speaker 1: and arrangements for Debbie's safety. And after the August confrontation,
29:28
Speaker 1: Debbie had reportedly spoke with Rebecca about feeling more comfortable
29:32
Speaker 1: with her decision to separate. In fact, she even told
29:35
Speaker 1: Rebecca that she was beginning to feel genuinely happy again afterwards.
29:40
Speaker 1: after so long. So the legal separation continued progressing throughout
29:44
Speaker 1: September and Debbie didn't in fact obtain a protective order
29:48
Speaker 1: against Mark, which was reportedly served to him during the
29:51
Speaker 1: week preceding September 22nd. And a divorce hearing was also
29:56
Speaker 1: scheduled for December of 2015. Meanwhile, the criminal case from
30:00
Speaker 1: August remained pending regarding both Mark and Raquel. But for Debbie,
30:04
Speaker 1: the combination of protective orders, criminal proceedings, divorce paperwork, it
30:09
Speaker 1: all represented several separate legal efforts to address the circumstances
30:14
Speaker 1: of her marriage and her life. Each involved its own process,
30:18
Speaker 1: and none provided an immediate resolution to the disputes between
30:22
Speaker 1: the family members. But she was just left juggling them.
30:26
Speaker 2: Alone.
30:27
Speaker 1: But she did her best. And outside the legal proceedings,
30:31
Speaker 1: Debbie continued maintaining an interest in the paranormal community. But unfortunately,
30:36
Speaker 1: it wasn't as it used to be. It seemed as
30:39
Speaker 1: though there were some difficulties securing professional opportunities independently for her. Reportedly,
30:45
Speaker 1: Debbie even contacted former Ghost Adventurers investigator Nick Groff about
30:50
Speaker 1: participating in a paranormal event in Virginia City. She explained
30:54
Speaker 1: that her marriage was ending and that she would attend
30:56
Speaker 1: without Mark, though. But Nick, well, he said he would
31:01
Speaker 1: have to decline because of the concerns that have been
31:04
Speaker 1: brought up over the couple's previous disputes and the possibility
31:08
Speaker 1: of a disruption at the event. Now, on September 21st, 2015,
31:15
Speaker 1: Debbie reportedly shared a troubling message on Facebook about living
31:18
Speaker 1: with evil spirits and negative influences. And it read as follows, quote,
31:26
Speaker 1: When you live with evil spirits... slash attachments. It's like
31:32
Speaker 1: every breath you take, a toxic one. Every negative emotion
31:37
Speaker 1: is magnified. Every good memory is erased. It is like
31:42
Speaker 1: having a venomous snake hiding somewhere. You just don't know where.
31:49
Speaker 1: End quote. Now, it's unclear whether Debbie wrote this message
31:53
Speaker 1: herself or was sharing someone else's words or but it
31:57
Speaker 1: was posted to her Facebook page. Then the next day,
32:00
Speaker 1: early on Tuesday, September 22, 2015, Summer Myers returned to
32:05
Speaker 1: the home she shared with Debbie and Jimmy at 2305
32:09
Speaker 1: Escalara Court in northwest Reno, Nevada. Summer had spent the
32:13
Speaker 1: previous night at her boyfriend's place and noticed something was
32:17
Speaker 1: unusual when she returned home. The garage door was left
32:21
Speaker 1: open and the bathroom light, well, it was left on.
32:26
Speaker 1: Debbie was reportedly very particular about security, which made the
32:30
Speaker 1: garage door look especially concerning. So Summer entered the house confused,
32:36
Speaker 1: and as she did, that's when she found Jimmy. He
32:40
Speaker 1: was lying on the hallway floor. When Summer first saw
32:45
Speaker 1: Jimmy laying there, she thought initially that he must have
32:49
Speaker 1: just collapsed, so she approached him to help at That's
32:53
Speaker 1: when she noticed the pool of blood around his body,
32:57
Speaker 1: and the blood splattered up the side of the wall. Jimmy,
33:01
Speaker 1: who was 55 years old, had been shot in the head.
33:05
Speaker 1: Summer was in shock, and she immediately began to search
33:08
Speaker 1: their home for Debbie, calling out her name and checking
33:12
Speaker 1: whether she was somewhere else inside the house. But the
33:15
Speaker 1: worry built up even more when she couldn't find her.
33:19
Speaker 1: And that's because she didn't suspect Debbie was the one
33:22
Speaker 1: responsible for Jimmy's death. In fact, Summer immediately suspected Mark
33:27
Speaker 1: was the gunman, which meant he would clearly be after Debbie.
33:32
Speaker 1: So she dialed 911. At 6.31 a.m., the Reno Police
33:38
Speaker 1: Department received a call classified as a trouble unknown at
33:42
Speaker 1: the Escalera Court address. Responding officers entered the residence and
33:46
Speaker 1: confirmed that Jimmy was in fact dead, from a gunshot
33:49
Speaker 1: wound to his head. And investigators also swept the property
33:52
Speaker 1: and established that Debbie was in fact missing. Now, as
33:57
Speaker 1: officers began the foundation of the investigation on Jimmy's death,
34:01
Speaker 1: they reviewed Debbie's background and discovered the previous domestic violent
34:05
Speaker 1: complaints involving her estranged husband. And among them was the
34:09
Speaker 1: August 2015 case in which Mark had been accused of kidnapping, assaulting,
34:14
Speaker 1: and strangling Debbie himself. as well as the couple's recent
34:17
Speaker 1: separation and continuing legal disputes. So police knew where to start.
34:24
Speaker 1: They immediately obtained cell phone location information for both Debbie
34:28
Speaker 1: and Mark, and the data placed their phones in the
34:31
Speaker 1: vicinity of 1100 15th Street in Sparks, Nevada, a neighboring
34:37
Speaker 1: city east of Reno. And their daughter, Raquel? Well, she
34:41
Speaker 1: just so happened to live in an apartment at that location.
34:45
Speaker 1: So investigators traveled to the complex named Courtside Gardens Apartment
34:50
Speaker 1: and located Mark's vehicle parked outside. And shortly before 11 a.m.,
34:55
Speaker 1: Reno police investigators and Sparks police officers approached the apartment.
35:00
Speaker 1: Their immediate objective was to make contact with its occupants
35:04
Speaker 1: and try to check on Debbie's welfare. But as they
35:07
Speaker 1: attempted to make contact through the door, gunfire erupted from
35:12
Speaker 1: inside the apartment. Police stammered back and immediately took cover,
35:16
Speaker 1: and the shots were accompanied by a man's voice shouting
35:19
Speaker 1: warnings to the officers to retreat and announce that they
35:22
Speaker 1: were dealing with a hostage situation, saying, quote, give me
35:25
Speaker 1: 15 minutes to gather my thoughts or I'll kill her,
35:29
Speaker 1: end quote. Mark was quickly identified as the voice of
35:33
Speaker 1: the man inside. Officers quickly established a perimeter around the apartment,
35:39
Speaker 1: and thankfully no responding officers were injured in the incident. Now,
35:43
Speaker 1: the statement he shouted confirmed that Mark was threatening to
35:46
Speaker 1: hurt Debbie, although officers still had limited information about her
35:50
Speaker 1: physical condition inside that apartment. They didn't know if she
35:53
Speaker 1: was alive or well, or if she was dead and
35:56
Speaker 1: it was a bluff. Additional personnel from the Reno and
36:00
Speaker 1: Sparks Police Department soon responded too, including patrol officers, investigators,
36:05
Speaker 1: crisis negotiators, and special weapons and tactics teams. The agencies
36:11
Speaker 1: even coordinated... their response with SWAT officers assuming responsibility for
36:15
Speaker 1: the tactical operation while negotiators attempted to establish communication directly
36:21
Speaker 1: with Mark. Police maintained a firm perimeter around the apartment
36:25
Speaker 1: complex as the situation continued on. Security measures also affected
36:29
Speaker 1: nearby schools as well, just as a precaution. Now, negotiators
36:34
Speaker 1: established phone contact with Mark almost immediately after the perimeter
36:38
Speaker 1: was secured. Their objective was to persuade him to release
36:42
Speaker 1: Debbie and surrender peacefully. Over the following two hours, officers
36:49
Speaker 1: continued communicating with him while tactical personnel remained positioned outside.
36:54
Speaker 1: At approximately 1.15 p.m., Mark was still speaking with a
36:58
Speaker 1: police negotiator by phone. And then a short time afterwards,
37:03
Speaker 1: officers heard the sound of a single gunshot ring out
37:06
Speaker 1: from inside the apartment. The sound prompted an immediate emergency response.
37:11
Speaker 1: SWAT officers moved to enter the residence right away with
37:14
Speaker 1: explosives to breach the apartment door. And once inside, they
37:18
Speaker 1: began clearing the rooms and locating the occupants. Tactical medics
37:23
Speaker 1: from the Regional Emergency Medical Service Authority, or REMSA, were
37:27
Speaker 1: also stationed at the scene, and they entered immediately after
37:30
Speaker 1: SWAT officers secured the rooms. The move into the apartment
37:34
Speaker 1: happened fast. It was surgical precision. What they discovered inside
37:40
Speaker 1: were the bodies of both Mark and Debbie Constantino. Both
37:44
Speaker 1: had sustained gunshot wounds to the head and were pronounced dead.
37:49
Speaker 1: No officers discharged their firearms at all during this whole confrontation,
37:54
Speaker 1: so they were able to easily rule out that the
37:57
Speaker 1: injuries were not caused by their hand. The discovery brought
38:02
Speaker 1: the hostage operation to an end shortly after 1.15 p.m.
38:06
Speaker 1: approximately two and a half hours after officers first approached
38:11
Speaker 1: the Sparks apartment. So now police had three deaths to
38:16
Speaker 1: investigate across two locations, James, a.k.a. Jimmy Anderson, at the
38:21
Speaker 1: Escalara Court residence in Reno, and Mark and Debbie Constantino
38:25
Speaker 1: inside the apartment in Sparks. And the two investigations were
38:30
Speaker 1: being conducted by law enforcement personnel for neighboring jurisdictions. Sparks
38:35
Speaker 1: Police Lieutenant Rocky Triplett confirmed that the incidents were directly
38:38
Speaker 1: connected while Reno Police Lieutenant William Rula provided information concerning
38:43
Speaker 1: the initial discovery of Jimmy's body. At that stage, investigators
38:47
Speaker 1: had established that Jimmy had suffered a fatal gunshot wound
38:50
Speaker 1: to the head, and that Mark and Debbie had been
38:52
Speaker 1: found dead following the standoff. However, the circumstances surrounding Jimmy's shooting,
38:58
Speaker 1: how Debbie had been taken from the Reno residence, and
39:01
Speaker 1: the precise sequence of the gunshots inside the Sparks' apartment.
39:05
Speaker 2: It was still... unknown.
39:08
Speaker 1: Then on Wednesday, September 23rd, 2015, the WashU County Medical
39:13
Speaker 1: Examiner Office performed autopsies both on Mark and Deborah Constantino,
39:18
Speaker 1: whose bodies had been recovered from the Sparks apartment the
39:21
Speaker 1: previous afternoon. Medical examiners confirmed both identities and determined that
39:26
Speaker 1: each had died from gunshot wounds, and it seemed that
39:29
Speaker 1: the situation... was a murder-suicide, with Mark having shot Debbie
39:33
Speaker 1: before turning the firearm on himself. Debbie sustained two gunshot
39:38
Speaker 1: wounds to her face, while Mark reportedly died from a
39:41
Speaker 1: single gunshot wound to the head. Now, these details raised
39:46
Speaker 1: serious questions about exactly when the shooting occurred during the standoff.
39:51
Speaker 1: Officers had initially encountered gunfire when they first approached the
39:55
Speaker 1: apartment shortly before 11 a.m., but Mark was still communicating
39:59
Speaker 1: with a police negotiator at 1.15 p.m. Then shortly after that,
40:05
Speaker 1: there was a single gunshot, which prompted SWAT to enter
40:08
Speaker 1: the apartment. Now, given the reported injuries, Debbie would have
40:12
Speaker 1: been shot before Mark fired the fatal shot on himself. However,
40:17
Speaker 1: investigators did not publicly establish whether Debbie was shot during
40:20
Speaker 1: the initial confrontation with police, sometime during the negotiations, or
40:24
Speaker 1: shortly before the final gunshot was heard. All we can do, unfortunately,
40:29
Speaker 1: is have a best guess on how it all played
40:33
Speaker 1: out behind that locked door. And your guess is probably
40:38
Speaker 1: just as good as mine. Now, Summer Myers, who had
40:43
Speaker 1: discovered Jimmy's body, subsequently discussed her own suspicion about the events.
40:49
Speaker 1: According to later accounts attributed to Summer, she believed Mark
40:53
Speaker 1: may have approached Debbie while she was outside the house
40:57
Speaker 1: for a smoke. She thought this because Debbie separated from
41:01
Speaker 1: Mark and previously expressed her fear directly of him, and
41:04
Speaker 1: Summer doubted that she would have voluntarily allowed him inside
41:07
Speaker 1: the house. So she theorized that Mark would have confronted
41:12
Speaker 1: Debbie with a firearm and and forced her to enter
41:15
Speaker 1: the residence with him. Summer believed Jimmy could have encountered
41:20
Speaker 1: the confrontation and attempted to intervene, resulting in his death.
41:26
Speaker 1: Summer also reportedly described unusual objects inside the home, including
41:31
Speaker 1: wine glasses on the kitchen counter, a bottle of vodka,
41:34
Speaker 1: and cigarette butts as well. These items were inconsistent with
41:38
Speaker 1: the household's normal routines, particularly regarding the smoking cigarette butts
41:43
Speaker 1: because they didn't smoke inside their house. It was prohibited.
41:49
Speaker 1: These observations raised questions about who had been inside the
41:52
Speaker 1: residence and what had occurred before Jimmy was shot. And
41:56
Speaker 1: her interpretation of the circumstances are just that though. Unfortunately,
42:01
Speaker 1: they're not established by any sort of forensic evidence, but
42:05
Speaker 1: she believed Mark showed up with a gun forces way
42:09
Speaker 1: inside killing Jimmy and then kidnapping his ex-wife and following
42:13
Speaker 1: through with a murder-suicide. Now, Summer also considered the possibility
42:18
Speaker 1: that Debbie had agreed to leave the residence, though, with
42:20
Speaker 1: Mark because she knew Summer would be returning and wanted
42:23
Speaker 1: to prevent another confrontation. But again, that is only speculation. Now,
42:29
Speaker 1: as news of the deaths spread on September 22nd and 23rd,
42:33
Speaker 1: reactions emerged throughout the paranormal community as their deaths attracted
42:36
Speaker 1: considerable attention, from fans and fellow investigators alike. Members of
42:42
Speaker 1: the TV program Ghost Adventures on the Travel Channel publicly
42:45
Speaker 1: expressed condolences. Other paranormal enthusiasts discussed the couple's history, even
42:51
Speaker 1: including history of domestic violence and the circumstances of the
42:54
Speaker 1: police standoff too. Some individuals even began suggesting that demonic
42:59
Speaker 1: possession or supernatural influence might have contributed to Mark's actions.
43:04
Speaker 1: And those suggestions were particularly prominent because of the couple's
43:08
Speaker 1: professional involvement with supposedly haunted locations and spiritual communications. I mean,
43:15
Speaker 1: who knows what sort of entity could have latched onto
43:18
Speaker 1: them or followed them home. But there's no investigative evidence
43:22
Speaker 1: supporting those theories. The criminal proceedings, though, and police records
43:26
Speaker 1: instead documented years of marital conflict, allegations of violence, and
43:31
Speaker 1: serious criminal charges arising from the August confrontations. The deaths
43:36
Speaker 1: also exposed the deep division within the Constantino family. You see,
43:40
Speaker 1: on September 25th, 2015, the paranormal news website, Paranormal Horror,
43:46
Speaker 1: published a statement reportedly made on Facebook by Mark and
43:50
Speaker 1: Debbie's daughter, Raquel. And it goes as such, quote, This
43:57
Speaker 1: is Mark and Debbie's daughter. None of you knew my
44:00
Speaker 1: family or the abuse we lived through. My daddy is
44:04
Speaker 1: in heaven. watching out for me and my sister. My
44:08
Speaker 1: mother is burning in hell where she belongs. The statement
44:15
Speaker 1: reflected the hostility that Raquel reportedly felt towards her mother,
44:21
Speaker 1: even after Debbie's death. But regardless of her emotions and
44:25
Speaker 1: her feelings, the criminal proceedings against Mark ended with his death,
44:29
Speaker 1: but hers continued on. On March 14, 2016, Raquel appeared
44:36
Speaker 1: in Reno Justice Court concerning the August 2015 confrontation involving
44:41
Speaker 1: Summer Myers. The case was heard by Judge Peter Sfereza,
44:46
Speaker 1: with Prosecutor Nick Graham presenting the state and defense attorney,
44:50
Speaker 1: Wal Fay representing Raquel. Raquel pleaded guilty to misdemeanor battery
44:55
Speaker 1: involving Summer, and prosecutors dismissed the remaining felony burglary allegation
45:01
Speaker 1: as part of the agreement. The charges involving Debbie had
45:05
Speaker 1: been dismissed following her death. Judge Safaraza imposed a 175-day
45:13
Speaker 1: jail sentence suspended, meaning Raquel would not serve jail time,
45:18
Speaker 1: provided she complied with the court's conditions. She was required
45:23
Speaker 1: to complete anger management treatment and an alcohol-related program within
45:28
Speaker 1: five months. There was no restitution order for Summer. Now,
45:34
Speaker 1: in the years after the murders, paranormal investigator Janice Oberding
45:38
Speaker 1: discussed her experiences with the Constantinos in her book Demon Song,
45:43
Speaker 1: Mark and Debbie Constantino as I Knew Them. The book
45:48
Speaker 1: examined the couple's professional lives and troubled relationship, rejecting supernatural
45:53
Speaker 1: explanations for the violence. The case also remained a subject
45:57
Speaker 1: of discussion within Paranormal TV. In 2020, Zach Bagans revisited
46:03
Speaker 1: the Constantinos' history during an episode of Ghost Adventurers, a
46:07
Speaker 1: screening room filmed in connection with the WashU Club in Virginia.
46:12
Speaker 1: But for the people who knew Jimmy Anderson and Debbie Constantino,
46:17
Speaker 1: the consequences extended far beyond the paranormal community. Jimmy had
46:21
Speaker 1: provided Debbie with accommodations during a difficult separation, while Summer
46:26
Speaker 1: had attempted to support her friend and had also become
46:29
Speaker 1: a victim of violence. the investigation documented three deaths, an
46:34
Speaker 1: earlier assault, protective order proceedings, and a marriage marked by
46:38
Speaker 1: repeated police intervention. And although the official records established important
46:45
Speaker 1: parts of the final days, the precise circumstances of Jimmy's
46:50
Speaker 1: shooting and Debbie's last hours inside the Reno residence remain
46:55
Speaker 1: unresolved in the public available material. All we know is
47:00
Speaker 1: that Mark shot Jimmy. Then he shot Debbie. And then
47:06
Speaker 1: he finally shot himself. Whether or not he was being
47:10
Speaker 1: haunted by some kind of entity that drove him to
47:13
Speaker 1: commit these horrific acts, we'll never know. But one thing
47:17
Speaker 1: is for certain. Mark Constantino had demons of his own.
47:24
Speaker 1: And that's the story of Debbie and Mark Constantino.
47:30
Speaker 2: My voice got a little bit worse as you were
47:32
Speaker 2: recording that, but I do have two thoughts. I find
47:36
Speaker 2: it really particularly interesting, the theory of the entity that
47:41
Speaker 2: potentially entered Mark. Because they were putting themselves in quite
47:46
Speaker 2: the situations.
47:47
Speaker 1: They certainly were. And I don't think that there was
47:50
Speaker 1: any sort of entity that entered Mark or entered Debbie
47:53
Speaker 1: or anything like that. I don't think that there was
47:56
Speaker 1: an entity even in their home. But you can't tell
47:59
Speaker 1: me that those entities that they were potentially encountering while
48:03
Speaker 1: at work weren't affecting the positive energy in their regular life, right?
48:10
Speaker 4: Yeah.
48:11
Speaker 2: See, I don't really think that Mark was possessed or anything,
48:15
Speaker 2: but I just thought that was like kind of a
48:17
Speaker 2: unique theory, I suppose. And then I also thought it
48:21
Speaker 2: was crazy weird how Like the daughter, Raquel, had turned
48:26
Speaker 2: so much on her mom.
48:27
Speaker 1: Well, there's clearly a lot more family dynamics that we
48:31
Speaker 1: don't understand.
48:32
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah.
48:34
Speaker 4: Geez.
48:34
Speaker 2: Well, because, yeah, she kind of like alluded that it
48:37
Speaker 2: wasn't a good environment like growing up, really. Yeah.
48:43
Speaker 1: So, I mean, none of us know what's going on
48:46
Speaker 1: behind closed doors in someone else's life. And that's clearly
48:50
Speaker 1: certainly the situation here.
48:51
Speaker 2: I don't think.
48:53
Speaker 1: Debbie is completely innocent of anything regarding a difficult marriage.
49:00
Speaker 1: I don't think Mark is completely innocent on anything regarding
49:02
Speaker 1: the difficult marriage either, or family life, however you want
49:05
Speaker 1: to put it. What we do know is that the
49:08
Speaker 1: police have attributed Mark to being the one responsible for
49:12
Speaker 1: all three deaths, um, his own included, of course. Um,
49:18
Speaker 1: and murder is simply not the answer.
49:22
Speaker 3: Yeah.
49:22
Speaker 2: This whole thing honestly was just like a mess.
49:25
Speaker 1: It was, but I did think it was kind of
49:28
Speaker 1: interesting with the whole paranormal aspect. Um, I actually do
49:32
Speaker 1: remember this, this couple, I was a, a big fan
49:35
Speaker 1: back in the day of, um, all the freaking ghost
49:38
Speaker 1: hunting shows that was on TV and all that sort
49:40
Speaker 1: of stuff. So I actually did, um, see Debbie and
49:43
Speaker 1: Mark on, on TV, uh, in some of these episodes. Um,
49:48
Speaker 1: I wasn't like, I didn't know them by name or,
49:50
Speaker 1: but I was like, Oh yeah, I've seen those guys before.
49:53
Speaker 1: So when I saw this case, I actually, I didn't
49:55
Speaker 1: even remember them, but I saw their faces and I
49:58
Speaker 1: was like, Oh, I recognize them. They're dead.
50:00
Speaker 2: What happened?
50:01
Speaker 1: And yeah, I just, I know. I thought it was
50:04
Speaker 1: interesting to bring up, especially paranormal Halloween, you know?
50:07
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, I thought it was super interesting and you
50:10
Speaker 2: did a really good job.
50:11
Speaker 1: Thank you. My voice is strained a little bit, but
50:13
Speaker 1: not nearly like yours. Hopefully I came through decent enough
50:17
Speaker 1: that you didn't really get distracted throughout the whole podcast.
50:22
Speaker 1: And hopefully by Halloween week, which is in two freaking days,
50:26
Speaker 1: our sixth annual Halloween week. hopefully by then we should
50:32
Speaker 1: be completely 100% and we can have an alcoholic beverage.
50:37
Speaker 1: We can laugh and chat and have a grand old
50:41
Speaker 1: time through these seven straight days of podcasting. But I
50:46
Speaker 1: can tell you right now, whether we are any better
50:49
Speaker 1: or not, it's going to happen. It's going to be amazing.
50:52
Speaker 1: We're not going to miss our sixth year running, doing
50:55
Speaker 1: this event.
50:56
Speaker 2: It's great.
50:57
Speaker 1: Also, if you haven't heard of this before, You should
51:00
Speaker 1: check out our social medias because we do an annual
51:02
Speaker 1: Halloween photo shoot every year too. So yeah, we are
51:07
Speaker 1: dropping our Halloween photo shoot on Halloween week. You can
51:11
Speaker 1: go see our little setup that we did this year.
51:14
Speaker 1: It's a pretty good one. I think it's going to
51:16
Speaker 1: be a shining star on the wall as far as
51:21
Speaker 1: all the shoots go. That's what I'm going to say.
51:24
Speaker 1: But anyways, I'm stoked for Halloween week. And until next time.
51:28
Speaker 2: Stay wicked.