Latest / Executive Careers with Fexingo: VP, C-Suite, and Senior Leadership Career Strategy / How Senior Leaders Use Internal Transfers to Avoid Lateral Moves
Transcript
- Lucas: There's a number that's been bouncing around my head since I read a Gartner study from late 2024 — internal candidates who apply for a role outside their current function are 47 percent more likely to get the job than an external candidate with comparable experience. Luna: Forty-seven percent — that's not a small edge. But it also tells me that most senior leaders aren't using that channel well, because the default move is still to polish the resume and start talking to recruiters. Lucas: Exactly. And the irony is that for vp level and above, the external hire failure rate hovers around 40 percent in the first 18 months. Internal transfers — when done right — have a significantly lower failure rate. But there's a catch: most internal moves at that level are lateral, not upward. You shift chairs but not trajectory. Luna: So the question becomes: how do you engineer an internal transfer that isn't just a lateral move with a different org chart? Lucas: Right. And the key is to stop thinking of it as a transfer and start thinking of it as a strategic pivot within the same building. I want to walk through a specific case — a former JPMorgan managing director I'll call David. He was in wholesale credit risk, and he wanted to move into the asset management division. But he wasn't willing to take a demotion or a lateral title. Luna: And I'm guessing he didn't just email HR and ask for a switch. Lucas: No. What he did was a three-phase process that took about 14 months. Phase one: planting the seed with his boss's boss. He scheduled a career-development conversation — not a performance review — and said, 'I want to understand where the firm's growth is heading over the next two years and how I might contribute in a different capacity.' That conversation wasn't about leaving his current role; it was about signalling ambition and flexibility. Luna: That's smart because it gives the senior leader time to process. If you spring a transfer request in a formal setting, the instinct is to block it — you're valuable where you are. Lucas: Right. And David's boss's boss didn't say yes or no. He said, 'Keep me posted on what you learn.' Which is actually a green light. Phase two was the build phase — he needed a cross-functional portfolio project that demonstrated capability in the target area. He volunteered for a post-merger integration task force that required coordination between credit risk and asset management. That gave him visibility, relationships, and a tangible deliverable. Luna: So he essentially created a proof of concept of his ability to work in the new function, without asking for permission first. Lucas: Exactly. And that project ran for about six months. By the end, the head of asset management knew his name and had seen his work product. Phase three was the timing — he waited until a strategic gap appeared. The asset management division was launching a new product line tied to private credit, and they needed someone who understood credit risk inside the firm. David was the only internal candidate with that exact combination. Luna: Which is a beautiful example of what I call 'becoming the obvious choice.' He didn't compete against external candidates — he made the cost of hiring someone else higher than the cost of moving him. Lucas: And the result — he moved into a senior director role in asset management, which was technically a lateral title but came with a broader scope: he was responsible for building the credit risk framework for the new product line, which didn't exist before. That's the kind of internal move that compounds over time. Luna: I want to push back on one thing, though. There's a narrative that internal moves are lower risk — and they are, in terms of learning the culture and the systems. But I've seen senior leaders fail in internal transfers because they underestimated the political friction. Moving functions inside the same company can be harder than joining a new company, because your reputation precedes you, and you have to re-earn trust in a different context. Lucas: That's a really important point. The failure mode for internal transfers isn't usually competence — it's assuming that because you know the company, you know the new team. David spent a lot of time in phase two building one-on-one relationships with people in asset management. He didn't rely on his existing network. He actively built new bridges. Lucas: Exactly. And this connects to a broader principle I think is worth sitting with: the best internal transfer is not a promotion in title — it's a promotion in scope. If you can find a role that gives you a broader span of control, a bigger budget, or exposure to a new part of the business that the CEO cares about, that's worth more than a vp to svp bump on a linear path. Luna: And scope is harder for external recruiters to replicate. You can't just go out and hire someone who has exactly that combination of internal relationships and domain knowledge. Lucas: Which is exactly why internal transfers, when executed strategically, are one of the most underused career levers at the senior level. Most executives spend their energy on the external market, but the highest-leverage move might be two floors up and one wing over. Luna: I want to zoom out for a second. If a senior leader is listening right now and thinking about making an internal move, what's the one thing they should do this week? Lucas: Schedule a career-development conversation with someone two levels above you — not your direct boss — and ask them where the business is heading. Don't mention a transfer. Just listen. That conversation will tell you whether there's a strategic gap you can fill. If there is, you've planted the seed. Luna: And if there isn't? Lucas: Then you know the internal route is probably not viable in the near term, and you can focus your energy externally. But at least you're not guessing. Luna: Before we wrap, I want to circle back to something you said about leverage. Because a lot of what we talk about on this show is about building career leverage — creating options so you're not dependent on any single path. And I think that's actually a good moment to mention that this show exists because of listeners who find value in that kind of conversation. Lucas: Yeah, and we keep the show ad-free and focused on substance — no sponsors, no filler. If you've gotten something useful from episodes like this and want to help keep it going, you can support the show at buy me a coffee dot com slash fexingo. That's buy me a coffee dot com slash fexingo. And honestly, even if you never contribute, we're glad you're here. The goal is just to make the content worth your time. Luna: Absolutely. And on that note, let's get back to the tactical question: once you've planted the seed and built the project, how do you actually time the ask? Because I think that's where a lot of people stumble. Lucas: The timing is everything. You want to make your move when the target function has a clear pain point — a new initiative, a departure, a regulatory change, a product launch. That's when the cost of hiring externally is highest because they need someone who can start contributing immediately. David's timing around the private credit launch was perfect because the asset management team was under pressure to move fast. Luna: So the ask becomes: 'I can solve this problem for you right now, and I already know how this firm works.' That's almost impossible for an external candidate to compete with. Lucas: Right. And you frame it not as a personal request but as a solution to a business problem. That's the difference between sounding like you want a change and sounding like you have something to offer. Luna: I think that's a great place to leave it. The internal transfer is not a lateral move if you treat it as a strategic pivot — plant the seed, build the proof, and time the ask around a real business need. Lucas: And remember: the goal is not just a new title. It's a broader scope that compounds over time. Thanks for listening, and we'll see you next episode.