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The Self-Care Mistake That's Leaving Moms Burned Out · That Mom

• Maria Woods: Welcome back. Today I'm sitting with Jessica Spaman, who has a radical definition of self-care that moms need to hear. Welcome Jessica to that mom. Welcome, Jessica. Thank you so much for joining me. Thank you so much for having me. Will you tell our audience a little bit about the work that you do and also how you got started? Yeah, definitely. So I am a licensed independent clinical social worker. I've been a therapist for almost 15 years now. And I am the owner of my ⁓ Emotions Emotion. It's holistic health and wellness ⁓ practice. And I ⁓ has b have been a therapist for 15 years and started my business in 2020 when the world shut down, and we all needed safe ways to support our mental health, and we needed community and connection more than ever. And so it was kind of long in the making, but in 2020, when there was just so much going on and so much need, it's really when my my practice blossomed. ⁓ I'm also a personal trainer ⁓ and a yoga teacher, and so I started off emotions emotion more. ⁓ with movement involvement and helping people connect through fitness and ⁓ building community for moms and moms and children and and and babies. ⁓ and it's kind of grown and evolved as I grow grow and evolve personally and professionally. So has my my business. And so now I don't do as much movement things, ⁓ but I I'm a therapist. I have my practice and I'm really a very passionate about Building community and connections. So I offer a lot of different groups and ⁓ retreats and workshops and places where where women can come together and gather in intentional ways to support their well-being. Yes. Well, thank you for all you do to support. That was a lot. That was a massive thing. I'm like, wow, how do you fit that one? Thank you for the work that you do. What is the major need that you see or the needs that mothers come to you with? Yeah, so moms come to me in different ways. Like sometimes I'm seeing them in my practice for individual therapy. Sometimes they're coming to my I have a postpartum support group. I have retreats. ⁓ I think I think moms collectively are needing validation and each other. And they need to feel seen and understood and connected, both to themselves and each other. And I think we live in a loneliest epidemic. ⁓ where we're more connected than ever, but s but more disconnected than ever. So I think a lot of my group offerings, that's what people are looking for. They're looking to feel more connected. In my clinical practice, I see a ride wide range of people. many of them are moms, most of them are moms. I also see dads, and I also see women that aren't moms. ⁓ and I would say there, you know, it really varies. ⁓ but I think there's a lot of ⁓ moms are just struggling with the demands of life and this world and mothering and neglecting their their own needs and their own self-care. And so they're they're burning out, they're overwhelmed. oftentimes, you know, in motherhood, all of our stuff comes up from childhood, all of our unresolved traumas and things that need to healing and attention. And and moms are just forced to confront those things and they get to choose how they respond to it. ⁓ but often, and this is some of the work I really love doing, is having ⁓ you know, helping moms do their own inner healing so that they can show up more fully for their kids and for themselves. ⁓ and like I said, mother kind of forces them to confront that. Yes, it really does. And there's so many things that you said, let's start by unpacking You said you think there's a loneliness epid epidemic going on now. Can we double click into how you see that happening for moms? Yeah. I mean, it's across the board as humans ⁓ in our modern world, but I think moms especially, because when we're struggling, when we're having a hard time, the tendency is to withdraw and isolate, right? And moms are s their struggles right now. And ⁓ there's a lot of pressure in motherhood to be f to be perfect and to enjoy every moment of it and all these messages that moms get implicitly and explicitly. And so when they're feeling anything but that, there's not a lot of space for that. ⁓ I think we live in a very ⁓ busyness society and it's almost glamorized. ⁓ just the fast paced nature of our lifestyles. People are around people, but they're not present. Like you need to have presence and you need to be. able to be emotionally available and vulnerable. To have connection. To have connection. Exactly. And those are two things people struggle with. Right. You're it it's people are just moving so fast. They're on autopilot. So there's not that presence there. They might physically be there, but they're mentally and emotionally somewhere else. I'm sure so many moms listening can relate because you're physically someplace, but you're thinking about all the things you have to do tomorrow, or you're mentally doing a grocery order. how do you work with moms that are looking to find more connection? You said presence is one thing and vulnerability. ⁓ are though do you start working on those kind of one by one? Yeah. So looking at patterns of like, so you know, the busyness, it you can be an autopilot and it's it's also a way of coping. Like, you know, there's fear of like, what if I slow down? Like what am I gonna feel? Yeah. Right. Or what if things don't get done? Is that what if that's my Yeah. That would be my fear. So I really help women and moms look at what their values are. Because if you're not living your values, you're living somebody else's. And and if you're on autopilot, you're list you know, people are gonna be pulling you for your time and your energy. So an attention, right? Like our attentions are constantly being pull like pulled at different places. So I really in my coaching and in my pr clinical work helping moms identify like what's most important to you and then how can you start living in alignment to that and making choices. And and then things come up, like different parts of moms of you know, like the people pleasing parts or perfection, like understanding different parts of themselves that get in the way of being able to do that. and so it's it's, you know, it's a journey. But I think so in terms of presence of like the pressure of like letting go of expectations, learning like understanding where like where that pressure is coming from, internally, externally, learning tools to shut out that noise and to turn in again to that more what are your values? Right. You know, and so everything is you know slowing down so they can be more intentional. Yes. So being present has to do with being more intentional. understanding your own values. ⁓ and there's some tools you mentioned. What what do those look like? ⁓ does the values piece come first? Yeah. So I I definitely think, yeah, values can kind of be your guideposts, right? And you're kind of I use it ⁓ in my coaching program rooted I you know talk about it as like the compass, right? It's gonna help you navigate life and make choices on a daily basis, on a minute to be minute basis of like what is most important to me right now? What are my top values and how can I live more in alignment with that? I think that's interesting because you mentioned autopilot and you mentioned this busyness and I think that personally, if I'm not very intentional about what my priorities or values are in the moment, I can easily get swept into busy and pulled in a million directions. And I have to wonder if other moms feel the same way because there are so many things going on that for me it does take me to really stop and pause and realize what I want to focus on. So i is that pretty common? Yeah, definitely. ⁓ You know, busyness can be for a variety of reasons. It could be like, well, this is just like what we do, right? And it's like kind of like the socially, you know, and this is I mean, it's been glorified. It's like it people don't even when you say how are you, we people don't even say good anymore. It's just like busy. It's like the auto thing to say. ⁓ so should mom stop wearing busy as a badge of honor. Yes. Yes. I do not I take that word out of my vocabulary. And whenever I know if I noticing I'm going to say that, it's a it's for me that's like a red flag of like something. I need to slow down. Like this isn't sustainable. ⁓ I will say like I'm in a full season right now and I am personally right now. Like things are really full ⁓ but with exciting things, things that are very intentional that I want to be doing that energize me. And it's also like being mindful of like, okay, like how much am I giving and receiving? What do I how's my self-care? so we have we're gonna have busy or full seasons. ⁓ it's but if that's like your con that's just your kind of norm, like you're no wonder why you're feeling dysregulated and you know, burnt out and overwhelmed because it's just not sustainable. Yeah. And you focus a lot in your work. On self-care. Yes. So I'd love to dive into what's just start. What does self-care mean to you for moms? Yeah. So it can so you know, we hear that word. It's very buzzy. ⁓ I think we're like sold that like self-care looks like something like a spa day or something like our nails done or something you have to like pay for and have time to go, you know, off the job, you know, off mom hours to do. Self-care for me is in any given moment identifying how you're feeling physically, mentally, emotionally, and asking yourself, what do you need? What you want? And tending to those needs. Wow. ⁓ because how can you take care of yourself if you don't even know how you're feeling? Right. So that's like the first step ⁓ of just and again, that's like slowing down and being able to like pause long enough to be like, how am I feeling? ⁓ wow, I've been holding my bladder for two hours. Like I need to Go to bathroom. Yeah. Right. And we're doing these things for our kids all the time. We're saying, like, ⁓ they're gonna need a little break after school before they go, you know, to their next activity and they're gonna need a snack. Like that's caring for them. And so moms need to do a U-turn and do those same basic things. I love this new definition of self-care. Can you can you repeat those questions again to make sure everyone's got them? So very basic of, you know, taking a pause like. How am I feeling? How am I feeling? Number one. Physically, mentally, emotionally. And what do I need? What do I need is number two. What do I want? And what do I want? And that really changes, you know, it's self-care. One moment could be like, I'm lonely. I need connection. And another day could be like, I want some alone time. Right. And I don't want to go out and see other people right now. And that's that's gonna help me. Like, so it's really. it's individualized and it's really about what you are in that moment and it's not a one size fit all. you know, it's especially with movement in my background, like movement is medicine. But I often would see like moms like, I have to move this way and do this class, but they're not meeting them where they're at in that moment or that season of motherhood. And they're comparing themselves to like, I needed this back, you know, six months ago. So this means I need this now. It's like you might be physically feeling differently or emotionally and ⁓ like mentally like And so again, it's in that moment, what does self-care look like for you? Yeah. And how does that integrate into living better daily? Are you asking yourself these questions every single day? Yes. So I am a huge believer and there's lots of books on it and research that, you know, how you start your day is how you live your day. And that's just the power of a morning routine. And so I can't stress that enough of having intentional time in the morning first thing. You have the time. It's it's about prioritizing it. It's you know, when I'm talking small, like five minutes, you have five minutes. Okay. Everyone has five minutes. Okay. And it can grow from there. But just being intentional of like checking in with yourself. Like, how do I how am I feeling? What do I need? What do you want? Setting a basic intention for the day. And this isn't like I need a to-do list, like I want to accomplish this. It's like, how do I want to be today? Just again, giving that little ⁓ space to connect with yourself, you know, it's gonna start to, you know, ideally it's multi, you know, throughout the day, little pauses. ⁓ this isn't adding to, you know, it's something you're just a way of being. It, you know, people think it's ⁓ this is another thing I have to add to my list. But it's for me, self-care is a different it's a way of relating to yourself. ⁓ you're already relating to yourself in a certain way. The way you talk to yourself is the way you care for yourself. ⁓ and so you're, you know, learning to be more self-compassionate. I do a lot of self-compassion work with moms. ⁓ we're all inherently like much harder on ourselves than we would on anybody, you know, any we would talk the way we do to other to ourselves, to anybody else, right? Yeah. And so that you know, that's self-care. Yeah. Let's let's talk a little more about that, about how is how you speak to yourself a form of self-care or not? Yeah. So we all have an inner critic. We have many different parts of us. ⁓ one of them is an inner critic and it's there for a reason. It's there to protect us in some way. ⁓ so as a therapist who's ⁓ I'm an IFS therapist, internal family systems therapist. ⁓ so this belief that we have many different parts to us. So I help moms understand their different parts, and one of them being the inner critic. Okay. And whatever part it is, we we I help them learn to you know, meet themselves with more self-compassion. We all have compassion in us as our true nature, our true selves. It's about accessing that and bringing that healing, ⁓ compassionate self to our different parts. ⁓ and so it's something that, you know, where it's it takes practice, it takes being intentional, it takes doing that inner work because Of you know, our inner critic is often the voice of someone younger, you know, when we were younger and our a caregiver or parent that we've internalized often. so in terms of self-care, you know, if you were to see somebody else struggling, right? Or feeling flawed or whatever situation, ⁓ you how would you talk to them, right? It's self-compassion in basic terms is you know, talking to yourself you would a friend. So caring for yourself at that moment when you're feeling like, you know, you, you know, I don't know, you forgot some, you know, you forgot your kids' lunch or something that moms are beating themselves up about. It's like, yeah, I'm imperfect human. We all struggle. We all make mistakes. We all forget things. We don't have to beat ourselves up about it. It's not, ⁓ we don't have to over identify with it. You know, there's a lot of tendency to want to over identify with our imperfections. ⁓ say we are our imperfections if we're late, we're always like we're a late person, for example. Yeah, or just this feeling of just not being good enough be not being enough. It's just so pervasive in motherhood of just feeling like they're never enough. and just the yeah, the the level of perfectionism expectations that are placed in moms and then People that have perfectionism parts and tendencies, those can really ⁓ flare in in motherhood because they're hearing, you know, already getting that pressure externally as well. Let's talk about that perfectionism, because I think I might be guilty. Yeah. And when I say think, I know. Yeah. So we all have perfectionism part. We all do. Okay. ⁓ I would say most of most of us. Yeah, I would say we all have yeah. And in motherhood, like you said, there are a lot of pressures. ⁓ Tell me how does perfectionism usually show up with the women, the mothers you work with, and how do people start to work through that or make some progress towards a better way of being? Yeah, so perfectionism is a part of us that works really hard to protect us from some more from a part that carries more vulnerable burdens that we've experienced sometimes in life. So it could be, you know, feeling a part of us that. carries rejection or feeling unworthy or not enough. So if we feel these things, ⁓ maybe we feel unworthy or not enough, or we felt that at some point in our life or we've internalized that message, we're now trying to be perfect to prove to ourselves that we are enough. Is that right? Yeah. So perfection perfectionism ⁓ is often protecting us from feeling shame. ⁓ or s one of those other things I ex I talked about. Yeah. So it's more of a s like proactive like part that's working really hard. So it can be pretty tired and exhausted. and so it's not about getting rid of our parts, it's about understanding them and their what they're trying to protect you from and build that relationship so they can start to trust you more, yourself and And then they they learn to not have to do, you know, they can trust you and not have to work so hard. And when you ⁓ do that healing and unburden those parts that carry the shame or the feelings of not enoughness ⁓ or unworthiness, ⁓ they don't have to work. They can relax, they can find some other job to do that ⁓ that so there's more balance and harmony in your system. Do you have a specific example like where you work with someone to let go of something or to realize where this ⁓ perfection tendency was coming in and they were able to maybe understand where that was coming from and therefore release a little bit of that standard that they're holding themselves to. Yeah. I mean I see it in motherhood, you know, just because we're talking about mothers, you know, a lot about like being perfect in terms of parenting and like having to have perfect emotions at all times. not giving themselves permission to feel like I don't like this or I want space for my kid or having any kind of emotion that they don't feel like is socially acceptable. ⁓ feeling perfect around you know perfectionism with their appearance or their house, relationships, a lot of perfectionism around like their child's behavior ⁓ and their motherhood experience. So under you know learning where it's showing up and Again, like bringing that curiosity and compassion that we all have in us, accessing more of that self-energy to this part. These are our parts are gonna tell us more about them. If and if they feel like we're there, you know, when we meet them with our self-energy, they're gonna start to trust us and they're gonna share kind of their stories and their burdens and their roles and what they're working really hard. ⁓ so in terms of an example of parent, you know, it's you know, having moms and look back at like, where where did I get these messages? Where's this part that feels that shame, you know, from early from an earlier experience in life? And really looking at like perfectionism again is a well meaning part. Mm-hmm. I think the first part is even for people moms get so much relief of like there's so much over-identification, like I'm a perfectionist. When you can start to say, like, I have a perfectionist part, ⁓ right? And it's a well-meaning part. And it's well meaning. But that doesn't mean I have to do everything that that's gonna drive me to do. Exactly. Yeah. And so what happens is, you know, we have these parts and we have these burdens, and then moms are put in mother culture where all these messages about perfectionism, so all these parts are like an overdrive. Like the people pleasing is another part. that often is an adaptive response to childhood experiences of, you know, I need to please and take care of other people so I can feel safe and loved and worthy. And so then mother culture and just being a woman in this in this world that we, you know, kind of move through, we're told to please others, right? And to put everyone else's needs before our own. And so it's really reinforcing that that system of parts that of, you know, of trying to To get needs met, right. Yes. And I'm also a bit of a people pleaser, I'll say. And I think that resonates for me that people pleasing is learned early. And then ⁓ you know, my studying of of culture and anthropology is like there is a motherhood culture and there are a lot of these messages, right? So we're if you are a people pleaser, it's very understandable. It's very common, I think, in women, like you said. ⁓ so understanding that this is where it comes from, I think gives a little bit of space to say, but do I really want to continue these tendencies or are they serving me? Maybe sometimes yes, but I'm sure other times no. Yeah, absolutely. At one point they did, otherwise they wouldn't exist. Yeah. And so having appreciation for them, like our parts want to feel appreciated, and that in itself can really help them rely. A bit and just feel seen and understood. Yes. Like the tendency to want to do that is not bad or it's not, you know, strange, but it just means it might not be serving you in this moment. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. ⁓ you also mentioned emotions and your work, part of what you do is called emotions in motion. Tell me about that, about the emotions and the motion, how those are connected for you. And what that means. Yeah. So emotions are energy in the body. And so I take a holistic mind body approach. When I s I mentioned I started my business six years ago, I was really big into the fitness and movement. And it's one of the most potent anti anxiety, antidepressants, ⁓ you know, moving, exercising. I'm a huge and I'm still a huge Yeah. I feel the difference. I know if I can do a quick walk in the mornings, we're in New England. So sometimes it's inside in the middle of the winter on a treadmill, but it just kind of changes my whole day and it puts me in such a positive mindset, even if it's like 15 minutes. Exactly. Now, you know, so I I started that now, you know, I and I do a lot more somatic work. So working with a body and ⁓ you know, there's more traditional therapy and kind of a top down approach where you're more cognitive and we live in our heads ninety percent of the day. ⁓ but things get you know, trauma and emotions get stored and stuck in our bodies if we're not processing it. And so and it's gonna show up with anxiety and depression and pain and inflammation. really so I've never heard it put that way that emotions are actually stored in your body. Yeah. So emotions are energy and and it's sh in our body. So if you think about it, When you're happy, you r produce endorphins, right? And those are chemicals in our body. When we're stressed, we produce cortisol and that's in our body. Yeah. Real scientific things happening that can be measured. Absolutely. So you know, I take a mind body approach and a lot of my work is helping moms and women ⁓ work with their bodies. You know, all those different parts we talked about are gonna are inner body as well. So sometimes that's the entry point or ⁓ an IFS is called like the trailhead of like where these parts are showing up. and being able so ⁓ movement and different somatic practices, different embodiment practices, breath work, tapping, different intentional ways of moving the body can help release those that stored emotion ⁓ and trauma. And so ⁓ Yeah, that's kind of kind of the story behind the emotions, emotion. Yeah. And how would a woman know if she is storing emotions in her body? Is that something that you help women discover? I wouldn't imagine a lot of people show up like with that knowledge, or maybe they do. Is it because you feel the stress or you feel the anxiety? I mean, we all have emotions in our body, right? You know, you're notice you know, So our body can tell us a lot about how we're feeling. So kind of going back to that self-care of like our bodies are gonna tell us how we're feeling. Okay. Right? Like, ooh, I'm feeling like butterflies in my belly. I'm little nervous or I have tension in my shoulders, or my you know, I'm ⁓ my sh my breath is short and you know, and ⁓ sure you know, so those are kind of we're all we all have emotions that are going through our body. it's about Becoming more self-aware of like what you're noticing. Okay. So paying attention to all these signals that are already there. We just may not be tuned into what they're telling us. Our bodies whisper before they scream. Okay. Yeah. That's a great that's a great visualization to remember. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Ours, you know, it's gonna give us little cues of like, you know, you know, even think about like your hunger cue, right? It's gonna show up subtly and then If you become really hangry, it's like really obvious, right? Then like it gets louder. it gets in the way of you functioning and managing your emotions. But it's been there for a while. You were just moving and you know, busy and doing other things and maybe not tending to it. Kind of neglecting those signs. Yeah. Yeah. ⁓ and then usually I kind of start with a personal journey, but we haven't really talked about yours. So I'd love to understand. How you got so interested in helping moms in particular. Yeah. ⁓ where does that passion of yours come from? It's a great question. So I've been a therapist, as I mentioned, about 14, 15 years now. I actually, for the first 10 years, were ⁓ even before that, was like working primarily with children. So I was a child and adolescent therapist and family therapist. And that's why, like in grad school, that's what I majored, like I picked my specialty of like children, youth, and families. This is before I had my own kids. ⁓ and I really enjoyed the work. ⁓ I think it was a culmination of then I had my own two kids. My kids are now almost 10 and 12. to you know, it was a combination of feeling like I didn't have the energy to work with other people's kids. I had my own. ⁓ a little bit of honestly like working with kids, it just wasn't mom-friendly hours. ⁓ because I was seeing kids in the evenings and those are kind of became like my mom hours. ⁓ but honestly also beh I just saw how much moms were struggling and they you know, often the kid is like the identified patient and like brought in of like they're struggling with their behaviors or this and that. And you can only do so much with kids. Like if a kid is coming in and but the p behind every kid is a a parent, right? And if the parents are struggling and can't regulate their emotions and their nervous systems are dysregulated. Like how can you expect a child to be, you know, managing their emotions? Like kids learn about their feelings and how to take care of themselves from the parents. And like I said, during co like the cro COVID crisis, like parents are struggling. And I just was, yeah, naturally like just had ideas about how to bring people together collectively. You know, I think it was a period of time when there was so much, you know, it was like that collective trauma and we're all in it together. and so I started my business and then just my own personal ex motherhood journey experience. I found it very isolating and lonely and finding it hard to find my people in motherhood and find space like my going through my own matrescence. So it's something we haven't I haven't talked about here yet. But just kind of matrescence is this huge developmental transition all moms go through. I ⁓ unfortunately didn't learn about matrescence until like five years ago. So my kids, you know, are older a bit older already, but having a language to identify what I was experiencing. So similar to adolescence, where you know, a child kind of moves through adolescence, their identity is changing, their emotions are changing, they're physically changing, their brain, their hormones are changing, their values are changing. Their relationships, all those things are changing. So matrescence is a mother's transition and it lasts a lifetime, really. ⁓ obviously during the first several years, there's like much more of it that transition. Yeah. you know, I support a lot of moms that have like postpartum mood and anxiety disorders. ⁓ but you know, that's one in five moms experience that statistically. Five out of five moms experience matrescence. Yeah. And it's everyone have you are you familiar with tressens? I I'm familiar with the term, yes. And it but I find it fascinating because, like you said, even as someone who's working in the field and really focused on moms, you only learned about it five years ago. And the fact that in terms of hormones and value changes and physical changes, all these things are happening that are akin to how big the changes are that happen in adolescence. I mean, that's a huge concept, right? If we're not even acknowledging that every woman who becomes a mother goes through this period, we're really just missing something huge. Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, I'm going my son is twelve almost twelve and he's now, you know, preteen. Like, I wanna be with friends. I don't wanna like h kiss mom in public anymore. And I'm going through my own like feelings around that, right? So yeah, that you know, for me, like that early ch ⁓ motherhood time, my cr I had a my a big part of my identity was wrapped up into my career and my work. And then at some point I was unexpectedly staying at home with my kids and that was really difficult for me. It's a huge shift. It was a huge shift and just this disorientation of like what are my values now? But society probably expects well that's pretty natural. You're a mom, you have kids, and now you're staying home with them. No big deal. Yeah. And for some people that works and that's a beautiful thing for them and and is an alignment. And and for me it wasn't. I'm such a better mom. ⁓ w n working and I think definitely I was getting messages and I come from a f you know, my mom was stayed at home and My sister had kids and she was like, I'm staying at home and this is great. And I was like, This is not great. But we get that message of like at least, you know, it should be free. It should be. Yes. And your kids should be your everything. And that first of all, that's a lot of pressure on a child to be their parents everything at any age. ⁓ but you have to do what's in alignment for you. ⁓ and so I think just my own journey of like, yeah, finding confidence in how I want a mother and I do make choices that are pretty like not the social norm. I'm a status quo disruptor. And so I do challenge social norms and it's very empowering. I I want to build community because when one mom gives, you know, permission to do something different, like she's giving other people permission. Yes. So if you could give moms permission to disrupt the status quo with their motherhood, what would you give them permission to do? Yeah, to take care of themselves, to prioritize their well-being, to fill their own cup. I mean, I know it's cliche, but like the more you pour into yourself, the more you have to offer your kids. You're a better y you're better for your kids by filling your own cup. And what have you done to kind of disrupt and fill your own cup at the same time? Yeah, so Part of it is like prioritizing my career because it was really important and meaningful to me. ⁓ and so I think during, you know, the 2020 period, I was that was when I was primarily staying at home and I was really unfulfilled and I found a lot of purpose in it and really had more to then offer my kids because I was feeling more whole and and happier overall. so I, you know, I'm modeling for my kids how I want them to t treat themselves. Yes. ⁓ and I've been, as I mentioned, like starting off with a fitness, I've always ⁓ included my kids in my self-care. You know, it's it's sometimes self-care is not being with your kids, but also like I love to exercise and move with my kids. When I was younger, ⁓ when they were younger rather, I would meditate every morning. I start I kind of got introduced to meditation mindfulness when my kids were Like three and five. And it really transformed my life. And I l I was meditating 45 minutes a day. It was part of this program I was in. And I would sit there and they my kids would sometimes come in and crawl over me. And it was a very perfectly imperfect meditation session. Yeah. But I would just keep showing up for myself in those ways. and then they learned like to, you know, expect that, you know, and Now I, you know, would love if they came and interrupted me more. And ⁓ but yeah, it's just so I think it's just you know, prioritizing how you're spending your time, s setting those boundaries, kind of redefining what self-care is for you. ⁓ yeah, and just I just kind of go back to being like really intentional about, you know, how you're living your life, what you need. And and yeah. Well, thank you for that permission. Yeah. ⁓ I've been calling it recently ruthless prioritization. Okay. Because for me it just means, yeah, you can't do everything and it it might seem ruthless, but choosing more of what matters most and that has been my self care lately. Yeah. ⁓ will you let everyone know where they can find you? ⁓ if they're looking to learn more about your work or your programs. Yeah, definitely. I just want to back up one more yeah. Yeah. I think also permission of like, yeah, the more you porn to yourself, like that's what your kids need. I just think like all these things around I'm just thinking school, my kids are in school, just like all these, I don't know, I'm just extracurricular things and all these mess my parents think they have to do it all. Like around the holidays, they have to get their kids all these things. It's just like Do it if it feels good for you and it's in alignment, but like if it's not serving you, like don't do it. Yeah. And sometimes that it that's really, really hard because you're breaking family traditions, right? Your generational things. ⁓ obviously the societal pressures. ⁓ but yeah, just kind of going back to like your child. You know, yeah, your child doesn't need those things. They need you ⁓ healthy and present and and feeling whole. Like so choosing yourself, choosing and your self-care over stressing yourself out or putting yourself through something that doesn't feel good to you. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And like I said, you know, I going back to like the parts work in the childhood, like the stuff runs deep it's deep. It's sometimes that's not as o easy as saying, like, you know. These are patterns. These are longstanding patterns. And so doing some of that inner work is a gift to yourself. Yeah. But also a real gift to your child. I can see how that transfers. And as you've seen from your social work with children. Yeah. Yeah. So sorry. So to go back to your question about how people can find me. Great. Yeah. So I am on social media. it's a love hate relationship. I don't want to be on there, but I also For me personally, I you know what my work with moms, I encourage people to get off social media. I think it plays it's a huge piece of people's mental health, ⁓ especially in motherhood. ⁓ but I also, you know, moms, I love what I'm doing and people find me that way. So yeah, I am on social media, emotions and motion wellness on Instagram and Facebook, and my website. you can find me on there. ⁓ yeah. Amazing. Thank you so much, Jessica, for spending time with us and sharing all your knowledge. I really appreciate it and had a great conversation with you today. I really appreciate Maria. This is Maria, and you've been listening to That Mom. Thank you for being here. If this episode resonated, share it with a mom who needs it too. And if you're ready for more, your next episode is waiting. Because every conversation here is meant to empower you to live better.