Latest / The Lone Gunman Podcast : JFK Assassination / JFK Assassination - Ep. 273 - Bugs and Red Herrings??

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JFK Assassination - Ep. 273 - Bugs and Red Herrings?? · The Lone Gunman Podcast : JFK Assassination

0:01
Here is umble Bee and Joey, Joey and the numb Bammy and Joby,
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Hello, Drama, Ride dandum Be and Joby, Joby Sam, job and
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Joby Slone Drama by Dad and Drama a singing podcast, The No Comment Dad,
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and you we go and here we go. What's up? Everybody?
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Welcome to the show. This is episode number two hundred and seventy three,
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Bugs and Red Herrings. Yeah, we'll give all that, I promise,
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But if you know this show by now, if you know me by now,
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if you know Joe by now, we can't just let a perfectly good
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slap in the face go unnoticed. So I guess. A mutual listener of
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both this show and America's Untold Stories asked a question of the two over there,
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hunt Lean and Kruber. And let's just say we didn't take too kindly
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to it, because I don't like disingenuous people or liars. And we're gonna
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explain some things because obviously some people just don't get it. Okay, everybody
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that listens to this show knows that we have a sense of humor. We
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like to you know, we even make fun of ourselves, right, Yeah,
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we have merch making fun of ourselves. Yeah, in fact, So
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to explain this thing fully, let's first for those of you who don't listen,
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and I don't blame you, but to their show, let's see what
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they said about us first. So here we go, the Lone Gunman podcast
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accuse your show of ripping them off in the first ninety seconds of their last
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podcast. Oh why so spicy? Who I saw this that came in before?
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Now, let me pause it right there, because we didn't accuse them
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of ripping off our show. Okay, it is not what we did.
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Trey had good intentions with his comment asking a question, but that's not exactly
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what we were inferring. What we were inferring, uh was something else.
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And we'll get that to in a second. But let's continue with the clip
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before. Why it's there's a Also, let me point this out real quick.
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You hear Gruber saying who who are they? Who? And my patent
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response in the past year whenever anybody mentions them in my comments section on any
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of our videos, I I always say never heard of them? And that
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hearkens back to the Lauren Hall aj Weberman telephone interviews when he's being asked about
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himmy and Lauren Hall said, never heard of him, Never of him.
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Anybody with a name like that's got to be an asshole. And it's funny
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or comedy or c I A, yeah, and it's it's funny because you
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know, Lauren Hall is just a comical character to to me, Doug,
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Joe and several other people. But let's continue with the clip. And I
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think that but I'm pointing that out because I think that's what Gruber's doing here
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when he's going who who are They? Podcast called the Lone Gunman Podcast.
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I did find it and I found a show and there's like a micro clip
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where you stated that like a micro penis. We were just talking about him,
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the the guy, not David Atlee Phillips, but mister x who mister
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yeah, that Fletcher Prouty was a maniac, scientologist, et cetera. I
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didn't say he was a maniac. I said he was a scientologist. No,
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but you said this guy is a maniac. He was a scidente.
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But it was just off tough stuff, Okay. And they pulled this.
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There's this little snippet and an Oscar Wild quote that they say the imitation is
5:05
the sincerest form of flattery. I've never even heard of these people. I
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know. I really don't understand it, And honestly, I wouldn't watch it
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because it's the Lone Gunman Podcast. Who give us a shit about these people?
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Let's move on? Fuck these people? Are you kidding me? All
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right? Fuck these people? All right? And look, I wouldn't listen
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to the show because that's called the Lone Gunman Podcast, and I don't believe
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that point of view. Uh, the show is nothing about promoting the lone
5:44
Gunman theory at all. It was meant from the origins ten years ago to
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be an ironic title because that's not what I believe. But I'm doing the
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show by myself, and now that I'm not doing the show by myself,
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I'm doing it with Joe. It's even a more ironic title because there's two
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of us. I should change the name to the Lone Gunmen, I guess,
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instead of the Lone Gunman. But I'm not because it's always been the
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Lone gun Man Podcast. But for these two to say that they've never listened
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and they don't know who we are is disingenuous at best. Okay, because
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shockingly enough, you know two weeks two weeks ago, Joe, what did
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I put out on on the vault? On the vault stream you put radio
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the full radio interval interview with Oswald? Yeah, and the INCA guy and
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yeah in full and what was their last show about Joe? The INCA guy
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and some of Lee Harvey Oswald in his own words, Yeah, imagine that.
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What a point do you think? So? But you don't listen and
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you don't know who we are. I think part of the blame. I
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mean that, first of all, if there's somewhat hijacking anything, it's not
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us. We do our own research. We go through our own documents,
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one hundreds a week, thousands within the past year. I can guarantee you
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more than can we post him for all to see. Yes, And I
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guarantee you I've gone through more than in two years than he has in fifty
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like, I can guarantee it. And we back everything up with our research
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and our documents. That is why we turned heads at Lancer with our research
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the biggest, most respected names in the communities. Heads were blown, minds
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were blown. I'm sorry by some of the research that we came up with.
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You know, I'm gonna have to do this, Rob, So the
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name Martin's gonna come up a few times. But and actually finding the John
8:15
T. Martin who took the video, we did more research on him than
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anyone else to finding that James Herbert Martin, who Marina moved in with,
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had a direct line installed to the White House. Uh, and I can
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go on. We do our own research, and this is a research based
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show. We don't take ourselves seriously, obviously, but we take our research
8:39
seriously. And essentially this was a joke because Rob has you know, it's
8:48
been a long standing joke of liberty lobbedy, right even to the point that
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we've merched of it. So when Grobert said it liberty lobbedy, we thought
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it was hilariou and I think I said something to the effects it was a
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joke. This is why we put up this quote from Oscar Wilde. Imitation
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is the sincerest form of flattery, and that's where Huntley stopped. But it
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says that mediocrity can pay to greatness, and it was meant to be a
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dig at them, because look at the screen, folks, The very bottom
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says liberty lobbedy. You know why it says liberty lobbity because I can't pronounce
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liberty lobby without very much concentration and effort because I originally I screwed up like
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what five times in a row many years ago, okay, many years ago.
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So for them joke, yeah, it's an inside running joke. We
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even have it on our merch, you know. So we thought it was
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funny when he said it that way, and that was, you know,
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the little that was why we played the clip of him saying liberty lobbedy.
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We can make fun of them, we make fun of ourselves like and then
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for him to say, fuck you guys. Okay, well now let's continue.
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You know they're there. You can't take yourself too seriously in this thing.
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I mean, the reason my name is big bad Bob. I've never
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went by Bob in my life. Okay until you remember, like Bob Clark
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and Doug Campbell they actually go to the show what was it called The Lives
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of right? Yeah, what an embarrassment. I mean those and then Carmer
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came back and bit Jim d. Eugenio in the ass on National Television.
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John D. D Angeel is the writer behind Oliver Soon is that manny JFK
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revisited. You can't make this stuff up. It's funny. It's funny to
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me. Call me childish if you wish, but it's funny. You know.
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We're just busting balls here. Yeah, we didn't address any of their
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content or anything like that. And by the way, we will now we
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all were going to get there, by the way. But yeah, for
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the super Chatter to say hijack right, everybody in the YouTube arena are taking
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their shows live, from true crime to gaming to sports trading cards. It's
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the trend. Also, the trend is to make a separate community because this
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amazing place isn't the nicest to people who cover topics like we do. So
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we didn't hijack anything. We do our own thing, We do our own
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research, and we back it up. So real quick, we gotta thank
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Paul and Jack for the super Chat superstickers much appreciated, and Johnny and Colonel
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Reb from earlier and I have a request from Colonel Reb real quick. I
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have to thank him in my d A. G. O. Garner voice,
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So here we go. Hey there, Colonel rib, it's your boy.
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D A. G. O. Gardner h much appreciated for the super
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Chat there. It's going to go towards I need to go buy a six
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pack of some Schlitz in a pack of Winstance so they will be put to
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good use. I assure you that, Colonel rib again. Anybody want to
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contribute to the d A. G. O. Winston Fund be much appreciated.
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I might even get a new tattoo. Who knows, but yeah,
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thank you, thank you, colonel, appreciate it. Okay, man,
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we're back. I think that you actually brought up a good idea. If
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we reach a certain amount of followers at some point, you should get a
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tattoo. We could decide on that number. But I'll do it. No
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you won't, Yeah I will. Okay, it is. It is now
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on the record. People. We just got to figure out a good one.
13:41
Maybe like you know Steve O or no that yeah, he has a
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he has a tattoo of himself on his back, like very very very very
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big. I'll get a picture of Jack Ruby back there. This is he
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would just eat him and stuff. That would be amazing. That would be
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amazing. Oh wow, but that's gonna that's gonna take a lot of listeners.
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We will get there though. How'd Eve from Scotland Graham Graham Keenan caught
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man. I so a couple of things when it comes to Gruber, and
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I'm intentionally mispronouncing the name because he ain't French Gruber. Uh. For those
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that can't pick up on the sarcas, yes, you know, when it
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comes to the content of their shows. I think Joe's pointed out because I
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never listened to the show Joe did. He was a faithful listener. I
14:52
was a fan. Yeah, I thought it was an entertaining m Yeah,
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because he there's a difference between telling stories and giving out factual information and doing
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actual research. Okay, difference. Now I went back and I did watch
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one show because the subject of it is a very obscure subject that not too
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many people have done deep dives and research on. But I happen to be
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one of them that has done this deep dive research on this individual. And
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that man is Larry Crayford. Okay, but we'll get there. You know,
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it's just like anybody else with like Judy Baker or James Files, anybody
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with a good story but no substance. You know, That's that's what we're
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looking at here. That's your correlation factor. Okay, it's the name of
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of their show, America's Untold Stories, So I want to act, Yeah
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Stories. So I went back and I watched the Crayford episode, and twenty
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minutes in he says that Jack Ruby introduces Crayford as Oswald. Wherever they go,
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according to who, According to Who, Mark he's mistaken for Oswald.
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A lot of places that him and Jack Ruby go. But other than Beverly
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Oliver, who's ever said this? I mean, you can say whatever you
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want, but when you don't source you know, your your your comments and
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you don't cite where you've got your information from, some researcher said this,
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Well that's I mean, that's sus Well. The best thing is whenever someone
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asks him a question, he'll be like, oh, I don't have time
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to address that. He's a deep state actor. That's the line. So
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yeah, go ahead. No, And I was just gonna say, like
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I listened to especially a lot of their early shows. I enjoyed them,
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but it's obvious that you know, I don't know what Q and A,
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JFKQ and A they're on now ten eleven, that they've ran out of stories,
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and you know, uh, well, here's how it went from what
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I see, they've been around two years. Okay, they garnered a ton
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of followers, not because of their JFK content, but because of what they
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started talking about at the beginning, which was baseball and the rust Alec Baldwin
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shooting when the topic was hot two years ago. Oh and they'll get back
17:53
to that soon. They well, yeah, whatever, But I'm saying they
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didn't get to one hundred thousand followers from JFK. Okay, that's I'm just
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pointing that out. They they they stumbled upon a subject that got them a
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you know, a ton of views, and they stuck with it. And
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I don't blame it for that, you know, hey whatever, but don't
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sit here and act like you're the greatest thing since slice bread and your JFK
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information is groundbreaking and this and that and the other. When so thirty minutes
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into the Crayford episode, they misidentified George Senator standing next to Jack Ruby and
18:37
some news footage. Okay, now I agree it was Jack Ruby in the
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footage, but they say, look, there's George Senator with a Minox spy
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camera taking pictures of the jazz band. Is not George Senator? If you've
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ever seen the picture of George Senator. That ain't him, folks. Uh
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Forty two minutes in they say that uh Ruby shot JD. Tippett in the
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back of the head. Okay, the back of the head. There is
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no wound on JD. Tippet in the back of the head. Now,
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if you want to speculate that Jack Ruby was there and he did the coup
19:17
day draw, the coup de grass shot, that's fine, but it actually
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went in right here in his head, not the back. Get your fact
19:29
straight. And then they taught they call him Crawford the whole show Crawford,
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right, and they say that he was intentionally misspelling his name, But that's
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not the fact. No, no, no, his name was always c
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R A F O R D. Okay. The reason it shows up in
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the Warrant Commission because they misspelled it, and due to their misspelling, the
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HSC eight couldn't find this guy despite them trying. It wasn't because they didn't
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care about Larry Crayford. I mean, like you pointed out in the show,
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they he was one of the most questions asked witnesses to the Warrant Commission
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other than Ruth Payne. M hm. So the AGENCA would have definitely wanted
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to talk to this guy, but they couldn't find him because the warrant commission
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from the get go misspelled his name. And if you're looking at a if
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you're looking at a a cursive written name, you know, you can definitely
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mistake an A and an O. Okay, but there's no W in the
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name. It's not Crawford either. It's Crayford, but it's either spelled with
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an A or an O. And it's just these these small little factual things
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that you know, yeah, you can tell a great story and this and
20:52
that and and claim that you know you found the dry cleaning tag off of
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the off of the uh the jack. I think that was found under the
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car after the Tippet shooting fifteen years ago in some obscure Australian forum. Uh.
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Yes, we have an honored guest. Who's that oh sound? And
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hello Doug. This is and this is another comment that followed it, that
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is, uh. I think sums up. We are going to get there,
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I promise, because like I said, they had no desire and I
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wasn't there, but I have people that I know that were there, including
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this guy. Right here who said that these two Hanlen Gruber couldn't care less
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about what anybody else was saying or presenting at the conference. They were being
22:04
very disrespectful, being very loud, especially when Robert Groden was up there talking.
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And you know this is uh, you know, I think who wasn't
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the pointed that out earlier about the Recruiter film. Yeah, cat Daddy Steve
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said Marcus a groden z film fanboy, Well he should have been listening to
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what the hell Groden was saying instead of being an asshole. But I know
22:36
that that Huntley was being an asshole, not Gruber. But Gruber wasn't even
22:41
in there listening to Groden. No, Grobert was outside, like behind the
22:48
bar area with a whole group of his little kind of cultish followers. And
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they were then told to leave that area and then went down to the hotel
23:02
bar, in which they were later kicked out as well. And this is
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from Gruber's own mouth in the episode post Lancer. Uh, I don't know,
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I think they'll get invited back. And don't even get me started on
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Ai Oswald and using Ai to Yeah, what did that have to do with
23:23
anything about the assassination you're not AI is not going to solve the case.
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I mean, come on, now, what are you doing it hasn't That
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presentation had no place at Lancer. I'm sorry, but they won't be invited
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back. Yeah, but well, this is another example of their great research.
23:45
Ready for this, Joe, I'm right, Kennedy was shot but he
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survived. Was there a black backup plan to make sure he didn't leave the
23:52
hospital alive? I don't know. The backup plan was to go to the
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LBJ ranch the following day, where he would never have been allowed to escape.
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There was a fundraising barbecue. Very few people know about this, a
24:07
Democratic fundraiser schedule for the LBJ ranch on Sunday, and I from what I
24:15
understand, there was a plan there with multiple snipers to not let him leave
24:21
the ranch. According to who who's ever said this maybe mac Wallace's fourth cousin
24:33
in law. But this is what I'm This is the kind of information that
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just gets thrown out to the multitudes of their followers then muddies the waters.
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This was actually a clip rob So this is one of the short I mean,
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so this is one of the things that comes up when you're scrolling and
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if you were to hear that, not knowing much about the case, you
24:56
might believe it. And while I do give them credit for getting people interested
25:04
in the JFK case, two then put it out like this, which I
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mean obviously the goals to get clips with such a you know, crazy statement,
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it does muddy the waters, and we are here to unmuddy the waters.
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And that is the difference research stories. Research stories subtle difference to some
25:34
not to others. Yeah, and just to cap us off, we do
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have audio, thanks to Doug Campbell, of Huntley being disrespectful at the Dallas
25:48
conference, and here it is he that is the only alteration to MYNDE.
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So what you just heard there is some brave man who deserves a medal shouting
26:19
down Huntley and his group of subordinates being unruly and disrespectful during your presentation by
26:29
Robert Groden at Lancer. If you're going to do that, dumb shit,
26:33
go to the bar, leave the conference area. These two just I don't
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even have words for how disrespectful that is. I would know. And when
26:45
people you know, pay two hundred dollars to get into these Lancer conferences and
26:51
listen to the presentations, I would have done the same thing. This guy
26:56
was pissed, yeah, and he had a right to be. And what
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I was going to say is I was sitting kind of front middle with uh
27:03
with with the crew at the time during uh, you know, the the
27:10
banquet speeches, and being in the first the front middle part of the room,
27:15
I could hear the disturbance and the laughing and the drunkenness going on from
27:22
the back corner, which is where they were. They didn't even Hunley could
27:26
not even see the stage from where he was sitting. UH had not,
27:30
like you said, no interest in anything, just wanted to you know,
27:37
talk to his uh, his little band of loyal listeners. And uh yeah,
27:42
reading a book is not the same as researching and going through NARA,
27:48
or or paying uh for access to for Mary Ferrol to look up documents,
27:53
or paying for ancestry dot com on a monthly basis. Those are the type
27:57
of things that we do. Two get the most research possible, and we
28:04
make mistakes. We're not perfect. And I think in one of the last
28:08
episodes, Rob had made a little minor mistake and correct commenter said no,
28:15
it was Quilla Clemens, and he was like, oh, yes, right,
28:18
and that's that's why we do this, to interact and to get things
28:23
straight, because this is the most confusing case either ever, and you know
28:30
we're trying to demuddy it and we I'm not saying all books are bad,
28:37
but you have to read the right books. How many books are out there
28:40
on LBJ? Did it? I mean, good lord? Yes, where's
28:45
the where's the proof? You know, there's a lot of uh, what
28:52
do you call it? Circumstantial evidence that you can pin on the man?
28:56
Sure, but as far you when you start going to saying that macam Wallace
29:02
was his personal hit man, and this, that and the other, I
29:06
mean, come on, man and that. Now all these snipers are in
29:10
the bushes around the lbj's ranch, and you know, how are you going
29:14
to cover that one? Where's your patsy at the LBJ ranch, Richard Nixon?
29:18
I mean someone someone's snuck in or something. Who knows. But it's
29:25
that's what we're talking about here. And we weren't even planning on addressing this
29:33
until Gruber told us to go fuck ourselves. So now we won't return the
29:37
favor, sir, Fuck you, yes and double fuck you Gruber. So
29:47
let's let's move on. He said, Yeah, let's do what we do
29:49
best, Joe, and that's doing little research and enlightened the viewers about something
29:56
they may not have known about. And hey, we got documents to back
30:00
it up. So Joe, without further ado, I've added my friend,
30:07
thank you south West. If you give me a second here, no seconds
30:15
for you. I'm all Joe Ball, ain't got all damn day, Joe
30:21
Ball. That was talking, all right. So I'm gonna be talking a
30:29
little about a little bit about the surveillance on Marina Oswalt after she moved out
30:37
of James Herbert Martin's home. So this is a New York Times article on
30:44
the FBI and Marina's house apartment being tapped and bugged in nineteen seventy five,
30:52
and I highlighted this little thing. You know. It talks about a former
30:56
FBI guy and how they had microphones and telephone taps set up. But the
31:03
surveillance, for the former official said, continued for some months after the death
31:08
of November twenty second, of Kennedy on November twenty second, nineteen sixty three.
31:15
And that is a very interesting line because I have long speculated and I
31:26
think our research on James Heber Martin, sorry, Rob proved that they were
31:33
really surveilling Marina, just like they were surveilling Mark Lane. And if they're
31:41
surveilling Marina like I'm going to show you like they were in the end of
31:47
February and March of nineteen sixty four, what do you think they were doing
31:52
before she testified the first time to the Warrant Commission in early February when she
31:59
was moving to James, when she was living at James Herbert Martin's house.
32:01
This goes back to the idea of control and narrative, and they needed her
32:07
to say certain things to implicate Oswald. So if I'm going to I'm going
32:13
to talk about the e I also wanted to know what she was saying,
32:17
you know, in the comfort of her own home when she didn't think anybody
32:22
was listening, right, So of course the first thing they tried to do
32:31
was bug the Ford residents. The Fords were white Russians and this is a
32:38
memo February twenty fourth. They got to be white? What well are they
32:45
got to be white? What has to be what? Oh? What has
32:50
to be white? White Russians? Oh? That was just what they called
32:54
them. Oh, Okay, I believe so the uh there continue the balls.
33:04
Yeah, the Russian community in Texas and other places, I'm guessing.
33:08
But they're talking about for a telephone number, and uh, you know,
33:14
he's requesting authorization to install technical surveillance at the Ford residence where Marina is currently
33:21
residing, or any other address to which Marina may move to in the future.
33:25
So I'm gonna move to this real quick. Uh. So this is
33:35
a memo, an FBI memo. Uh. The day after that when uh
33:43
specialation charged Shanklin of Dallas, FBI called this morning to advise of unusual obstacles
33:51
there which they are trying hard to remove. Relative to place in technical coverage
33:55
on the present residence of Marina Oswald aka the four residents. The closest place
34:00
which they can get to her residence is fourteen miles away, and because of
34:06
the telegraphic mechanics in this particular exchange, the lines need to go through different
34:12
stations. As a result, it is not possible to get any reception either
34:16
in the Dallas office eighteen miles away or in the nearest place to rent fourteen
34:22
miles in distance. So they're actually looking for places to rent near the Ford's
34:29
home to try to get a surveillance on Marina, and Dallas points out that
34:37
Marina Oswald has rented a home at six twenty nine Beltline Road in Richardson,
34:45
Texas, eighteen miles out of Dallas, and plants to move into this home
34:47
tomorrow. If she does, this means that we, even if we overcome
34:52
the obstacles today, this line will have to be removed to cover her new
34:55
phone. Essentially, there's this guy saying, Shank, why bug the Ford's
35:00
home, Let's bug her new home. Advises he does not anticipate any technical
35:07
problems at the new address. Okay, so issues at the Ford's home.
35:13
This is the end of that document recommendation. I'm going to skip to this
35:17
and then the effort in the for time purposes. It seems the presidential the
35:23
practical thing to do is to place the installation in her new residence in Richardson,
35:30
Texas, and then give this coverage adequate time to see if anything relevant
35:35
can be deployed. So they're trying to bug the Ford residents, they can't
35:40
do it. They're for a place to rent it. But then they learn
35:45
Marina is moving out of the Ford residence. And it's getting her own apartment.
35:50
So what do you think they do? Then rob go bug that place.
35:57
That is exactly what they do. And let me get this straight right.
36:06
So the operation to bug Marina's place was named June Sinisterly which is the
36:20
name of Marina's daughter, one of her daughters, and enclosed, you know,
36:25
it gives technical and microphone insallations were made at her new apartment in Richardson,
36:31
Texas on the night of February twenty eighth, nineteen sixty four. The
36:36
technical installation was completed in place in operation this time, and the microphone was
36:42
installed completely and placed at the plant. So they had microphones and were bugging
36:46
the telephones. What better place to put a microphone than any little baby dolls
36:52
head or something like that, you know. And Junie's toys. Yeah,
36:58
people were giving giving, you know, Marina, here's some toys for June.
37:04
Don't cut them open. It is necessary to utilize eight agents daily in
37:09
the operation of the plant, including translator and coordinator. In addition, eight
37:15
agents used on physical surveillance and cars, making a total I'm sorry, of
37:22
sixteen agents a day. So we're talking in late February, they are assigning
37:30
sixteen agents a day to surveil Marina in addition to the wiretap and microphones they
37:39
have in her car, I mean in her apartment. So that will give
37:47
you an idea of what the efforts the FBI was making after she testified to
37:55
the Warrant Commission in early February. So this brings me back to James Herbert
38:01
Martin. What kind of surveillance or control was she under before then, because
38:08
that time would have been, in theory more crucial, right before she testified
38:14
to the Warren Commission, before it became part of the public record. That's
38:17
why James Herbert Martin has been of such interest to me and why our research
38:23
on him has been pretty groundbreaking and new. So you followed me, do
38:34
is this making sense? Got you cool? And real quick? Southwest?
38:40
Wasn't Marina Lee Oswald's first romantic relationship? Actually no, I don't know about
38:50
anybody before the Marines or he was allowed to have a relationship with some Japanese
39:00
what do you call those people that run like whorehouses adams? Yeah, some
39:06
Japanese madam while he was in the Marines. It may or may not be
39:09
true. Yeah, and he actually yeah, he actually proposed to another chick
39:15
in Russia before Marina took the words out of my mouth. Yeah. So,
39:21
I mean, I don't know if the bunked her, but I mean
39:24
he must have. She must have put it down on him if he was
39:28
trying to marry her in a relatively short amount of time countless. Sorry I
39:43
highlighted a comment. Yeah, I did that when you were talking, and
39:45
I went down like this, my head off screen while you were talking.
39:50
Oh, I don't see that. I'm sorry. That's why he was busy.
39:52
I was busy. So let me continue here on my little It's gonna
40:00
be pretty short. Forgot about so uh. Marina's lawyer, after John Martin
40:07
Thorne, was a guy by the name of William McKenzie, and he had
40:14
indicated to the DPD that and the FBI that he would keep them fully informed
40:22
of all information that would be of interest to the government concerning Marina Oswalt activities.
40:28
He was also advised at suitable blah blah blah. He was unusual activities.
40:34
He was Willie mack so I so this lawyer was found by Robert Oswalt
40:43
for Marina post h James Herbert's literal screw up in d C and both their
40:52
contracts being terminated. This is the new lawyer McKay. She didn't really trust
41:02
him. The only people that I can tell by reading hundreds and hundreds of
41:07
pages of documents on the aftermath and Marina is the force. Declin and Catherine
41:14
Ford was really the only people she trusted. And she wanted Thorn to be
41:22
or she wanted Declin Ford to be her business manager at some point, but
41:29
he thought it was a conflict of interest, so he never became one.
41:31
So as I'm going through these hundreds of documents like I do every week,
41:37
I identified a surveillance code. So essentially the DPD open files for the technical
41:46
surveillance under d L thirty three s h little star thing for the name of
41:53
it and uh d L thirty four d s uh asterisk asterisk is related to
42:01
the thank you Rob for the microphone surveillance. So when looking through all these
42:07
files, you know that this is thirty three S is related to the telephone
42:16
and thirty four S is information that is received by that source is from microphone
42:23
surveillance. Also on another dl T one is DL thirty three S. So
42:32
then again here we are with another name probably to confuse the operation. Right.
42:38
So these both here that I highlighted are both a microphone and the telephone,
42:45
and they're also referred to as DL T one and T two. Now
42:50
someone like d L thirty five thirty three DASH five asterisk is a personal confidential
42:59
informant leave. So there's a lot of informing going on to Marina up until
43:07
April. The documents kind of fall off there, So this is one of
43:12
my last documents here, and this is an internal FBI memo by Special Agent
43:20
Newsom. On April seven, sixty four, the surveillances were placed on Marina
43:28
Oswald following the director's conversation with jay Lee Rankin on February twenty fourth, at
43:32
which time Rankin asked what we could do to cover the activities of Marina,
43:37
as she stated he would hate to have her just run out on us,
43:40
like she was go back to Russia or something, and he was wondering about
43:45
covering her activities to see who was visiting her for a while. At that
43:49
time, mister Rankin was advised we could consider getting a telephone tap on her.
43:53
We have no objections to giving this report to the Commission, however,
43:58
if it is made part of the public record for review at a later date
44:04
US what we're doing. It will become apparent to the reader aka us even
44:08
though we cover the source that we'll find that the information came from a technology
44:15
that we did find came from a tech technolo technical surveillance. Even though the
44:21
technical was placed in response to the Commission's request to cover Marina's activities, it
44:27
does not appear Commission specifically asked for a technical surveillance. Therefore, if there
44:32
is public criticism about placing a wiretap on Marina Oswalt, it would be directed
44:37
at the Bureau rather than the commission recommendation. In as much as we have
44:45
furnished the Commission with a pertinent information from these sources, they're talking obviously about
44:52
the wiretapping and the microphones by separate letters, we recommend that this report not
44:58
be sent to the Commission. Mm hmm. Because why Joe Jack asked the
45:04
question, Because everyone was in c y A mode and and the Commission or
45:12
the FBI thought the Commission was going to make the breau look bad, and
45:17
they knew that Marina actually has a lawsuit here regarding that or potentially does.
45:24
Yes, because they are they were illegal, and that's why I believe,
45:30
Joe. I believe that they were assigning them h d L, d L
45:35
T one and d L T two identities so that possibly if the if the
45:42
proverbial ship hits the fan, they can say that their information came from a
45:45
confidential informant instead of from technical surveillance. Yeah, that's a great point.
45:51
And uh, you know, I went through uh a lot of long documents,
45:57
and it was only the second or third time through that I started recognizing
46:02
these patterns of T one, T two, thirty three, thirty four s
46:09
that I started paying attention to it. And we have that now figured out
46:19
why they were named that way, and then in future research, because we
46:23
know our community is serious about researching, keep that in mind when reading documents
46:34
about the aftermath and possibly the surveillance, that those T one and T two
46:40
were the same. So this is a little timeline essentially late February Hoover February
46:49
fourteenth, Marine and the kids moving the Fords home. Hoover authorized the FBI
46:52
to install technical surveillance at the Fords home. The next day, the urgent
46:57
memo is sent describing the obstacles and boring the in bugging the Ford residents.
47:02
In February twenty ninth, the surveillance starts, so Marina moves in to her
47:08
new apartment in this timeframe here probably to twenty sixth, twenty seventh to twenty
47:15
eighth, and telephone surveillance starts on February twenty ninth. The microphone starts on
47:22
three two sixty four. They probably had to install them separately. On March
47:27
twelfth, Rank and actually sent a memo saying to stop the surveillance on Marina.
47:36
That's March twelfth, And the memo I refer to about not telling the
47:42
Warrant Commission about some of this info was on April seventh, nineteen sixty four.
47:49
So I recently kind of started researching the aftermath because I'm helping another researcher
47:58
on a project we are, the Long Gunman podcast, that is, And
48:02
I didn't know little things like this, And I hope you guys learned something
48:08
factual today by this little my little presentation on some of the aftermath surveillance on
48:17
Marina and how it was done and why it was done. Now to go
48:24
from the factual to the non factual, and you'll see what I mean.
48:31
That's why the term red herrings is in the title of this show. I
48:37
found, well, I didn't find it. I came across it, and
48:42
I've seen it for a while because various things out of this newspaper article have
48:47
been put forth by various researchers over the years. And I just want to
48:53
show you that's a legit newspaper article that I copied, and but it made
49:01
me think as I started reading it, that this thing has got to be
49:07
a red herring somewhere on the level of like the the Macone rally document,
49:15
the DPD incident report of Jack Ruby and Lee Oswald getting in a fight at
49:22
Oswald's rooming house. You know, stuff like that that that has been you
49:29
know, kind of tucked tucked in places by tricksters to hopefully trip up or
49:38
you know, conspiracy theorists and expose them. And you'll see what I mean.
49:45
As I start reading this, I couldn't believe it as I started reading
49:49
it. So the title of the yeah, the title of the article is
49:52
captured. It's all over now. And this is a supposedly from the New
49:59
York Tribune on November twenty third, nineteen sixty three. So this is from
50:02
the day after the assassination. So it starts off. It's all over now,
50:09
said Lee Harvey Oswald softly. He had just been dragged screaming from a
50:15
movie theater in Dallas's Oak Cliff suburb where police say he shot a policeman and
50:22
was now submissive as the dead policeman's partner brought him to headquarters for questioning in
50:29
the rifle slaying of the President. Now, the opening paragraph here, there's
50:36
two very wrong facts in it. That the partner of the dead policeman brought
50:45
Oswald to headquarters. Okay, that didn't happen, and he wasn't arrested for
50:52
questioning in the rifle slang of the President. He was arrested for the murder
50:58
of a police officer, JD. Tippett. They had not charged him with
51:00
the murder of the president at the time of his arrest at the theater.
51:06
Here we go. Less than three hours later, the twenty four year old
51:08
ex marine was jailed as the quote prime suspect in the assassination. That's not
51:15
right either. Okay, he was not charged with that yet. And what
51:27
I'm talking about three hours after the assassination. The theater is four miles from
51:32
where President Kennedy was shot at Houston and Elm Streets. This may be true,
51:37
I don't know. Then police got a call that a man answering the
51:43
description of the suspected assassin had entered the Texas Theater. And if I'm remembering
51:52
things correctly, Johnny Brewer, you know it called because the guy was acting
52:00
suspicious. I don't think Brewer knew about the murder of JD. Tippet at
52:06
that time. All right, let's go. Patrolman JD. Tippett and Marion
52:17
N. McDonald followed. I thought you were gonna say, Mary a meehawk.
52:23
No, and Usher told them the shabbily dressed man had run into the
52:30
theater a short time before, they spotted the slim, balding five foot nine
52:36
inch man crouched near a red lighted exit door, and they yelled. So
52:43
now this is saying that JD. Tippett and patrolman McDonald followed Oswald into the
52:50
theater and they saw him crouching near a red lighted exit door and they yelled.
52:59
Now this does not even remotely follow the kind of events that have been
53:05
described inside the theater. But okay, because you know JD. Tippet is
53:12
dead by now, so I don't think he was part of following Oswald into
53:17
the theater. So to continue, Patrolman Tippett fired once. Oswald fired once
53:27
and Patrolman Tippett fell dead. Patrolman McDonald then rushed Oswald and they struggled.
53:34
Oswald was subdued and Patrollman McDonald was slashed several times across the face with a
53:39
gun butt in the struggle. He said, so now we have JD.
53:44
Tippett being killed in the theater from one shot by Oswalt. Okay sure.
53:54
As Patrolman McDonald led the red shirted to suspect red Shirted from the theater,
54:02
a crowd of several hundred people milled around the entrance. Rumor had spread that
54:08
President Kennedy's killer was in the movie theater. To the people outside, Oswald
54:13
was Kennedy's killer. They milled about thoroughly or threateningly as other police were called
54:19
to hold them back. The suspect was rushed to buy squad car to headquarters,
54:24
where Dallas Captain Ganaway said late yesterday that Oswald had worked for the Texas
54:30
Textbook Depository at Elman, Maine for about a month, so it wasn't I
54:38
mean, I guess technically it was a textbook company, but that's not what
54:43
it was called. It was a Texas school book depository. And it wasn't
54:46
at Elman Maine. It was at Elman Houston, so it was from the
54:58
firm six floor offices. Now, there was no offices on the sixth floor
55:04
that the shots which killed the President were thought to have come. Captain Ganaway
55:08
said a Mauser rifle was found on a fifth floor landing of the building,
55:15
which overlooks Elman Houston and is a scant one hundred feet from where the president
55:21
was shot. So now we have the sixth floor being offices and the Mauser
55:27
being found on the fifth floor landing, according to Captain Ganaway. Ocus Campbell,
55:35
now the next part of this. I know that that friend of the
55:39
show, bart camp likes to portray as evidence of Oswald being on the first
55:49
floor, But in the context of this article, I would say everything that
55:55
is mentioned in this article is suspect as hell. Sus yes, sus very.
56:02
And I thought Officer MacDonald was the hero that lodged his gun in between
56:09
uh you know, yeah trigger, so he couldn't shoot. But you know,
56:14
I think you said it mentioned that he had scars on his face.
56:16
Do you think that they would maybe be pictures of that to help their case?
56:23
Oh, there, there are, there are. He was scratched in
56:25
the face by the scuffle. Well, the back part of the gun that
56:31
he cocked. Oh, I did not know that. I've never seen a
56:37
picture of that. So, yeah, it exists, it's legit. I
56:40
stand corrected. M So the reason I mentioned this is because ocus Campbell right,
56:46
he's a According to this article, the vice president of the textbook firm
56:52
said Oswald's duties were to fill orders and wrap books, and which he didn't
56:57
That was Troy West wrapped books, and that the sixth floor of the seven
57:01
story building would have been easily accessible to Oswald. But the part of this
57:07
article that I know that that Bart uses sometimes shortly after the shooting. This
57:15
is mister Campbell speaking shortly after the shooting, we raced back into the building.
57:19
Now Campbell was standing out front with Roy Truley during the motorcade. He
57:25
says, shortly after the shooting, we ran back into the building. We
57:29
had been outside watching the parade, and we saw him Oswald in a small
57:34
storage room on the ground floor. Then we noticed that he was gone.
57:40
So this is ocus Campbell saying that when they went back into the school book
57:45
depository they saw Oswald in the Domino room on the first floor, which if
57:52
true, yeah, you know, it does lend credence to Oswald being prayer
57:57
man and Oswald not being on the sixth floor during time of the shooting.
58:00
Mister Campbell added, of course, Oswald to the others were on their lunch
58:06
hour, but he did not have permission to leave the building, and we
58:08
haven't seen him since. Dallas police said Oswald was a chairman of a local
58:14
fair Play for Cuba committee. He had come home, they said, from
58:20
more than three years in the Soviet Union, between the late fall last year,
58:23
when he his Russian wife and their child were granted exit permits and this
58:30
year. Police could not immediately account for his whereabouts for the last year.
58:34
He went to work at the Texas Textbook Depository about thirty days ago. His
58:39
fellow employees speak of him as being shabby most of the time. They described
58:45
his rather limp red or brown shirt and his rumpled trousers. Information about Oswald's
58:54
wife and child was not available. Police said, I'm pretty sure it was
58:59
a vailed, but okay, It was in the first two and a half
59:06
weeks after he went there as a tourist that Oswald said he wanted to become
59:08
a Soviet citizen purely for political reasons. He told reporters, I will never
59:14
return to the United States. He said that he would not give his reasons
59:19
until after I rescind my citizenship. He apparently had flown to the Russian capital
59:31
October fifteenth from Fort Worth, Texas, and the next day wrote to the
59:36
Supreme Soviet Commission asking for Soviet citizenship. So now we have Oswald flying from
59:44
Fort Worth, Texas to Moscow. Jeez, okay. He told reporters he
59:52
would not discuss his application because I'm afraid what I say may be distorted by
59:58
the newspapers. As he walked away from the American embassy in Moscow, he
1:00:02
said, I'm through. A year later, Oswald was reported working in Russia,
1:00:07
but there had been no word from him, despite him writing his mother
1:00:12
and brother many different letters. Later, he was quoted as saying, I
1:00:19
saw my mother as a worker, always with less than we could use,
1:00:23
But he said his childhood was happy. He said he thought his mother would
1:00:29
not understand why he fled to Russia. His mother was identified as Missus Marguerite
1:00:34
Oswald, a widow. Her address in nineteen fifty nine was whatever whatever.
1:00:38
He returned to Fort Worth from Russia last year. He said. He spent
1:00:42
his time in Soviet Union working in a factory im Minsk, and left only
1:00:45
after he became disillusioned with life under communist rule. His change of heart came
1:00:52
in the fall of sixty two, he said, and he applied for a
1:00:53
passport with his Russian wife and their child. The passport was logged are issued
1:01:00
in the Soviet Union granted exit permits for the Oswald family. He became a
1:01:06
rapper and handyman at the Texas Textbook Depository. A rapper, yeah, mc
1:01:15
mc lee. W wait a wr app e r like a rap Yes,
1:01:22
not in the beastie boys sense of the word. Yes, all right,
1:01:27
thank you. UH. Police said Oswald had a brother, R. L.
1:01:32
Oswald, living in Fort Worth. It was his sister in law,
1:01:37
Missus R. L. Oswald, who said, in nineteen fifty nine,
1:01:42
I always thought he was an average guy, but I sure don't know.
1:01:45
Missus Oswald was then unable to be reached yesterday for additional comment. UH.
1:01:51
New York Police said they have no record of Oswald in any crimes here.
1:01:57
And according to Carlos Bringier of the Cuban Student Directory the Directory in New Orleans,
1:02:02
Oswald was in New Orleans two months ago as the chairman of a pro
1:02:10
Castro fair Play for Cuba committee. Pretty sure it was more than two months
1:02:15
prior, more like three four three. And he never said he was a
1:02:22
chairman. He was always the secretary. Interesting, yes, Oswald said.
1:02:31
Several Cubans were allegedly arrested two months ago in New Orleans for passing out pro
1:02:36
communist literature. When Oswald was in Moscow in nineteen fifty nine, he said
1:02:42
it was like getting out of prison. When he left America to seek Soviet
1:02:45
citizenship, he was denied Soviet citizenship, though, but he is reported to
1:02:52
have said that he would like to go to Cuba to join Fidel Castro.
1:02:58
Ed Butler, the Information Council of the American said he once debated communism with
1:03:04
Oswald, but he did not say when or where. A photograph, Yeah,
1:03:12
yeah, Butler, we might be hijacking something. A photograph in the
1:03:19
New York offices of United Press International shows Oswald in a Moscow hotel room on
1:03:24
November fourteenth, nineteen fifty nine. He had a crew cut and looks every
1:03:29
inch the marine that he was for three years. Now. I don't recall
1:03:34
ever seeing a picture of Oswald with a crew cut in Russia. But I
1:03:37
could be mistaken, but I don't think no. The fort Worth Star Telegram
1:03:45
says Oswald was reported en route home from Russia June eighth, nineteen sixty two.
1:03:52
The next day he was put aboard the boat with his wife and child.
1:03:54
No information on when they arrived has been released yet. Lee Harvey Oswald
1:04:00
came home to Dallas to pack textbooks. You know, that's what he wanted
1:04:03
to do, So why he came home yesterday? His brownish colored jacket was
1:04:09
found in a parking lot near the theater. Pretty sure that was a white
1:04:15
jacket, but okay, it wasn't his. By the way, where he
1:04:21
is accused of shooting Patrol and Tippett, the crowd left the movie theater,
1:04:29
but the Marquee lights were still on. The program cry Battle and war as
1:04:33
hell. Now, there's a lot of factual errors in this newspaper article.
1:04:41
Joe, and I mean not just one or two, but damn near the
1:04:45
whole thing. Which made me think this has got to be horseshit, like
1:04:50
this is probably to me, like some another put this together with a bunch
1:04:56
of obscure factoids in it to make conspiracy Theoris look like gidiots. Of course,
1:05:01
because I don't see how a respectable newspaper could get so many facts wrong.
1:05:09
Now. I understand this is shortly after the assassination, but my god,
1:05:15
I mean, there's so much wrong in that article. It could be
1:05:21
an attempt to muddy the waters from the start. And I've been doing a
1:05:29
little thinking about, you know, our episode with Gavin about Markham and some
1:05:34
of the follow up we did on the Mark Them boys, and the different
1:05:41
statements that every tippet witness had to scene. It's all conflicting. Maybe that
1:05:47
was the point. It's just let's just make this so conflicting that no one
1:05:54
will ever figure it out, and let's just put everyone up there with differ
1:06:00
statements and uh say, throw our hands up like whatever. So my first
1:06:06
question just made me think was is this a real newspaper? Because I'm not
1:06:14
from New York, I don't know shit about newspapers in New York. So
1:06:18
I googled New York Herald Tribune, and it's was a real newspaper. Now
1:06:27
it was a combination of one taking over the other. The New York Herald
1:06:30
I think bought the New York Tribune of course their biggest competitors in New York
1:06:35
Times and probably the Post to New York Post. Yeah, they went out
1:06:42
of business in nineteen sixty seven, like totally the four years after this article
1:06:46
was written. They're out of business. They're gone by I see you later.
1:06:50
I wonder why. So after I established it this was a real newspaper,
1:06:58
of course, I had to do a little digging and make sure that
1:07:00
this was a real article out of said newspaper. And you know what,
1:07:04
Joe, what have a look? Looks it is? Yeah, the section
1:07:16
I read is the middle rate there capture it's all over. Now, that's
1:07:20
exactly what I read is in that article or in this route. It could
1:07:26
have been AI making it. I forgot that. Yeah, that's sarcasm and
1:07:33
a joke for people that are picking up. So it was a legit newspaper
1:07:39
article. So either the idiot that wrote this article this paper. This is
1:07:47
just one article with several articles in it. I didn't read in these other
1:07:51
ones, but if there is factually accurate as this crap article. I mean,
1:08:00
that's that's pretty bad. I mean, that's like very very, very
1:08:05
very bad. Yeah. So you know you was that November twenty seventh?
1:08:12
Just is that what it said? No? No, November twenty third,
1:08:15
third edition. Wow. Yeah, okay, day after Wow. So by
1:08:19
this time, of course, you know, all these wire services have have
1:08:23
all this information disseminated to them, you know, uh, you know,
1:08:28
from Dallas. And there's no reason to have this level of messed up facts
1:08:34
and misinformation in an article written that day. That just it's just I mean,
1:08:41
Tipic getting shot in the theater, I mean, come on, I
1:08:44
mean, what the hell. That's why you know, you know, I
1:08:47
love bart And and the whole idea of prayer Man, but this this blurb
1:08:51
about Ocus Campbell, uh see and Oswald I couldn't use it based on the
1:08:58
rest of this article being so ridiculous, you know, you know what I
1:09:01
mean, yes, I do. And actually that reminds me of another tidbit
1:09:08
I didn't put up, but that I was reading and some of the documents,
1:09:14
so the microphone picked up a conversation. This is in a report.
1:09:20
We'll put it on locals between robert Oswalt and Marina at Marina's apartment, and
1:09:29
robert Oswalt comes to Marina and says, I just heard that Leo was seen
1:09:33
with a coke five or ten minutes after the assassination, and so they're kind
1:09:42
of on their own, having their doubts, right, And Marina says,
1:09:47
well, I doubt he would have been quote that calm. I will share
1:09:53
the document after he did that. I remember she said he was shaking uncontrollably
1:09:59
when returned from the Walker shooting, right, So she said he would not
1:10:08
have been calm, if you know, drinking a co cola outside the TSPD
1:10:13
minutes after. So that was another tidbit. I ran into and reading a
1:10:18
lot about the aftermath and some of Marina's statements, just to add on to
1:10:21
what you're saying. Yes, thank you, Joe, but uh yeah,
1:10:29
So that's pretty much it for for this week. I think we addressed what
1:10:34
we needed to address. You know, when you tell us fuck those guys,
1:10:42
uh now, fuck you basically, and uh you know, there's our
1:10:47
shows are very different, very and we try to bring you as much factual
1:10:53
information as possible, not just colorful stories. Sure we can get on here
1:10:58
and tell all kinds of stories, but we want to bring the truth and
1:11:03
facts about the case to make you think, to get you intrigued, to
1:11:08
make you want to do some more digging on your own, you know,
1:11:10
do a little research, you know, get on Mary Ferrell, get in
1:11:14
the Wisburg archives, get in the Baylor archives, get into narrow Yeah,
1:11:19
and do a little research, because that is where the truth lies, and
1:11:24
that's where the pieces of the puzzle that we're trying to put together here to
1:11:29
solve this case are going to be found. Whether or not thereose documents exist
1:11:34
or not anymore, who knows. I have my doubts, but yeah,
1:11:41
I think we can put together a very circumstantial truth as to what happened concerning
1:11:49
a lot of different things. You know, once you clear up all the
1:11:54
little nooks and crannies that were the questions, most of the questions about this
1:11:58
case lie. Once you unmuddy the waters, Once you have enough context to
1:12:05
put little pieces together, you have more of an ability to when you're reading
1:12:14
documents, to pick out certain things, to pick out patterns, to do
1:12:19
statement analysis, intentions analysis, all these type of tools that a researcher should
1:12:30
use critical thinking. It's one of the things that the other people we were
1:12:36
talking about lack and we will continue to bring you great research, new research,
1:12:47
and the truth and the facts as we know it, damn straight,
1:12:56
Joseph. So, folks, that's going to do it for this episode.
1:13:00
But before we go, if you're not already subscribed to this channel, make
1:13:03
sure you hit the subscribe button ring the bell to get notified. And when
1:13:06
we go live and new episodes drop our locals community as links are in the
1:13:12
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1:13:15
over there. We're trying to build that up. Also, if you want
1:13:18
any merch, it's link for that is down below as well. Liberty Lovity
1:13:29
ours or some delicious hot sauce. We love the folks over at Silk City,
1:13:35
baby, we do, and they produce nothing but delicious freaking hot sauce.
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So spice up your life and get you some and use the code Gunman
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for twenty percent off your entire order. So for Silk City. For Joe
1:13:54
Borelli, this is your boy, Big Bad Vibe. Thanking you for two
1:14:00
Innian, thank you for participating in the show. Thank you for all the
1:14:02
super chats and superstickers. We love you guys. It's always a blast until
1:14:06
next time folks pop up, pup up up out fuck those guys. H
1:14:21
m hm yes, sir,