Latest / Random Heathen Ramblings / Random Heathen Ramblings: S2, EP34 - Theodish Heathenry Ramblings w/ James Davey

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Random Heathen Ramblings: S2, EP34 - Theodish Heathenry Ramblings w/ James Davey · Random Heathen Ramblings

0:12
Dylan, welcome back everyone to another random Heathen.
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Ramblings podcast, big Garden music production, my name's
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Jesse. Welcome back.
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Get to the Zone here for another minute or two rock out to some
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some Don Hines. low 30 yard, I think is the name of this track
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load girl off of the Scapa near album.
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Released in 2020. if some night of the Roxbury action going on,
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Alright, yeah, folks, hail and welcome back.
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So you know, for all you new folks and newcomers here looking
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to, you know, support what I do. If you enjoy talks like this,
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this is a random podcast of heat and related subjects the the
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topics can go into some really. You know, we go down some rabbit
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hole sometimes as the saying goes and but I usually, you
2:49
know, I will ramble on for about an hour or so.
2:51
With either a guest or just myself depending on how the
2:53
thing go. But here lately, we've had some
2:55
really awesome guests and today's guest is a fellow who I
2:59
met actually right around the time that I started midgard
3:02
musings, you know, social media and all that stuff, several
3:06
years ago. So we're going to welcome in
3:09
welcoming, we're going to welcome him in, get it out.
3:13
Eventually here in just a moment.
3:15
So, here, now in the meantime, Let's get into the show Dietz
3:20
scope. Oh right.
3:38
Yeah so I said Deets, what did I say that?
3:41
Yeah, I'm not trying, you're not trying to hook up here.
3:44
The details of the show is what I really meant to say not.
3:47
Like, anyway it's Monday here now recording this and now
3:53
you're gettin it on Thursday. So hopefully by the time, you
3:56
know, you guys are here in this and listen to this.
3:58
I've regained a few of my brain cells, but it's been a rough
4:03
weekend because I am getting older and I apparently twisted.
4:07
Or sprained. Well, I did, I sprain my ankle
4:11
by twisting or doing something in such a way that it didn't
4:14
hurt me at all when it happened, it took like almost full 24
4:19
hours for it to really start aggravate me.
4:21
So basically from Friday afternoon, Friday night all the
4:27
way until today I've been hobbling around my ankles
4:31
swollen. It's trying to get around on
4:34
crutches and it's just it's a rough rough go But that's not
4:40
what you here for but that's the nature of the podcast.
4:42
You get random stuff like this from time to time that you know,
4:45
you just can't where you going to do not, listen sure you can
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do that but you also miss the really awesome, cool things that
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that I have to offer, you know? All Which is just a random
5:01
podcast. Anyways, guys, gals ladies and
5:03
gentleman, boys and girls everybody out here on midgard.
5:06
Listening streaming. Thank you so much.
5:08
Like I said, the the guests that we have coming in today, his
5:11
name's is his name. His name's is James.
5:17
So we're going to welcome in James and want to hold the
5:20
surname off for now and see how we go into introducing him, when
5:25
he joins us here in just a moment.
5:29
But he is been like I said a social media friend of mine.
5:33
I don't have, you know, a lot of the guests that I have on this
5:37
show have our actual friends in life, you know, real life
5:40
friends. That I know in person and a lot
5:41
of them are friends of mine who I've met through social media
5:45
and James, here is someone who I would consider from a friend and
5:49
friendly, but it's interesting the way our relationship kind of
5:53
started out on social media sites.
5:55
We've never met in person but the way things started out, I
5:59
first started, you know, midgard musings years ago and what kind
6:03
of heat and he is. I'm just going to leave that
6:08
open for right now, and I want to hopefully talk about it and
6:12
some other things with him. So let's stop delaying.
6:15
Any further and welcome in James.
6:20
So let's get him on. All right, folks welcoming to
6:26
the podcast today. Like I said, this guy that I met
6:30
some years ago. On social media, never actually
6:32
met in person. Welcome to the show James, hey,
6:35
what's up. Hey, everybody.
6:36
I'm James Davey. And I am a member of the White
6:42
Marsh. We're still working on what
6:47
we're called now. We used to be White.
6:48
Marsh said yeah you're just in the marsh now right?
6:52
It's the marshmallow I'm gonna say it's been now for A little
6:57
over 10 years or a little under 10 years as some period.
7:02
Closely resembling a decade. Okay, so you come, at, least
7:07
from a place of experience, if nothing else.
7:10
We can say you've definitely got the experience and when you talk
7:14
me start talking about practicing anything or doing
7:16
anything, for digits that, you know, equal to her, or get into
7:20
the decade or decades, I'd say that you've got some miles under
7:23
the tires and then have come from a place of being able to
7:25
speak about something intelligently, you know?
7:31
Which is you know man like you you hang out online.
7:34
You do the the Online Social Media stuff.
7:36
That's how we met. We're going to kind of dive into
7:39
that a little bit and you see all kinds of man I just picked
7:42
up, you know, the poetic Edda and now let me, you know, start
7:46
a YouTube channel. Very lot of that.
7:50
Yes. Yeah, I mean, it's like, it's
7:51
all over the place. Like, you have really nothing to
7:54
and I, you know, when you and I first met and this is going to
7:58
be for some of the like, alumni. Members because this is like on
8:02
YouTube and Spotify and a bunch of other places.
8:05
But for anybody who's been with what I do on midgard musings for
8:09
like from the beginning, James here was right there, but in a
8:13
different sort of way and the the one thing that I don't think
8:19
a lot of people know is unless you were there around back then
8:23
at the time and followed my videos and stuff is that I was
8:28
going to get into doing like a book.
8:30
Discussion series or my own personal ideas on what it means
8:34
in a book that I recommend to a lot of newcomers to Heathen.
8:40
Ritu dramatic, even read his. We are our Deeds by are quoting.
8:47
So I had like made this announcement or whatever.
8:51
Like, oh guys, I'm going to be reading from this book, it's a
8:53
great book, I think it has a lot of great points but here's my
8:56
here's what I think, the guys saying and James is one of the
9:00
guys who basically through the roadblock up and was like pump
9:05
the brakes there bub? No you're not and James you
9:09
remember. Yeah cause I liked what was what
9:12
was so we've never really talked in depth about this except what
9:15
the Iowa we went through back on.
9:17
Back and forth and like messages and comments on Facebook.
9:20
Statuses, and what was your initial take on when you saw
9:24
that? Not knowing me from Adam.
9:26
Well, so the thing about we are our Deeds, it's a great book and
9:30
it's one of the, you know, it's I owed.
9:34
I would almost say it's one of the required reading reading
9:37
books for modern Heathen during. But there are a couple of things
9:41
about it that make me immediately and immediately
9:45
hesitant towards. People who have just picked it
9:48
up or just picked up Heathen re and then going and trying to
9:50
share their thoughts on it. And the first of those things is
9:53
that it is dated, you know, opening wrote this book some
9:58
time ago and danish belief, which is, you know, that is one
10:02
of the foundational texts of Vader's believe or not
10:04
foundational. But one of the most important
10:08
state of belief has evolved grandly since those ideas were
10:13
written down and there was talk for I'm of may be convincing
10:18
Eric to do an a second edition version of that book just to
10:24
sort of show everything that's been updated.
10:26
So I always want to caution people when they see that book
10:29
like it. This book has some great ideas
10:31
in it but some of those ideas have turned out through
10:35
discoveries that have happened over the past 10 years to over
10:38
15 years. Actually to have not been
10:41
accurate linguistically and then the other big thing that I
10:46
always want to ooh, when I see somebody who's using that book
10:50
is We My Tribe are quoting is is also light machine gun.
10:57
He is a member of White Marsh and he why you really had the
11:02
the where you came from the position where you came from, is
11:05
as a member of that tribe. Your is like, you was almost a
11:09
call to action of like, hold up. What's going on here?
11:11
Well, I mean not necessarily call to action, but the book has
11:14
become so widespread, and he than re and we so frequently,
11:17
see people just take his ideas completely out of context, use
11:22
them totally, And then that ends up flapping back on us because
11:25
people are like, goes White Marsh beliefs this.
11:27
Yeah, we always like to see if everybody's open to talking to
11:33
us before. We're not going to tell you not
11:34
to discuss a book. It's a book, you can do whatever
11:36
you want your grown-up. But what we will say is that if
11:38
you have the opportunity to chat with us ahead of time, we'd love
11:41
to answer questions about it just because we don't want Eric
11:44
to be misrepresented. We don't want White Marsh to be
11:46
misrepresented and we really want the ideas that are in this
11:49
book to become prevalent in the Healer community.
11:52
So we'd Love to have discussions about those.
11:56
That's wholesome, man. I could mean that really kind of
11:59
just that getting all mushy or whatever, you know, warms my
12:01
heart to think that the information that is obviously
12:05
out there for the public, right? I mean, anybody can get online
12:08
and buy it and but that, you know, the source that it comes
12:12
from is like willing to and wanting to and being receptive
12:16
to building some conversation around it.
12:20
And I think that's really where the value of it shines is it's
12:23
not like a how-to. Guidon really anything.
12:27
It's like, you know, stuff to think about and incorporate into
12:32
your practices. And I'm, you know, I don't know
12:35
a lot when I, when I get on here and I talked to different
12:38
heathens, you do most of the folks that I talked to.
12:41
Actually, I don't think I've talked to anyone that I'm aware
12:43
of who claims they dish beliefs, these not to my knowledge.
12:51
But from my knowledge, like, from from you.
12:53
And I James like, when I see like some Your social media
12:56
posts and I go. Hmm, here's a guy who's, you
12:59
know, got like I said before miles under the tires and
13:02
mileage to come from a position of, I know what I'm talking
13:05
about from experience and other things.
13:07
You know, when you say something like they just belief is dying.
13:12
I'm really curious as to what, like, where that comes from.
13:16
And, and, because again, being be what little, I know about it.
13:20
It's a, an incorrect me again, Saxon Heathen ring or necklace.
13:26
Exactly, right? So, let's I'd like to maybe like
13:30
get into some of that if you want.
13:31
Sure, sure, sure. So first, I think that it's
13:33
important that what you're referencing is is a post.
13:36
I made on my wall on my Facebook wall.
13:38
I don't post much on Facebook anymore, but I posted something
13:41
about a few months ago where and I said, please don't ever call
13:47
me. If they had some it again, I am
13:49
quite the machine gunner. Day is just a dish.
13:52
Belief is, is dying or is dead? To me and specifically what I'm
13:58
talking about is that for a very long time and data should
14:02
believe this sort of necessary and of theaters believe, if you
14:06
think about what it is which is these, these this collection of
14:13
six or seven different roughly, analogous Anglo-Saxon tribes,
14:20
but who have pretty significant differences in their ritual
14:24
practice in there. They're liturgical practice
14:28
pretty different understandings of the things that they believe.
14:34
Basically it was like it was like a league of these little
14:38
these little mini tribes when I say many tribes, some of these
14:42
things are you know, I know that Ethel and and Texas has like I
14:48
don't want to misrepresent but I think they have like 30 or 40.
14:50
They have these things are pretty big.
14:53
But these little these little mini tribes Of anywhere from 10
14:58
to 50 heathens that are Loosely connected in the way that they
15:03
do things. But the necessary end to that is
15:06
that those tribes are going to drift more and more apart in
15:09
those practices. I mean, if White Marsh is doing
15:13
something where we believe we are liturgically correct, and we
15:15
are getting good results. And Ethel, 'and is doing the
15:19
same ritual in a different way. And they got good results to
15:23
that, we don't want to come together.
15:25
We want to keep Doing what our tribes are doing.
15:27
That is working for us. So you're going to get this
15:30
natural drift away. So Theta, disbelief.
15:35
They just believe there was no single one, my people's belief,
15:39
it was, it was a series of different little tribes and this
15:42
is was true back in ancient he than him as well.
15:45
It really was Villages these epic unit Villages that would
15:48
have their own practices and they'd be sort of loosely
15:51
connected to everybody else but the village was where it
15:54
started. And so we that's part of us,
16:00
that one, that one half of it is that we feel like, theaters
16:02
belief always is going to lead towards Basically your try being
16:07
your religion bars faults and all that.
16:12
Yeah, it's hard. It's and even apart from Hearth
16:15
called just that the bigger concepts of the cultists, your
16:18
cultist is going to be your religion.
16:20
And so I can say it's kind of the same way if you'll, excuse
16:25
the analogy, it's kind of the same way that when you say
16:28
Christian today, nobody knows what the hell you're talking
16:31
about because Catholics that acosta's.
16:34
As there's unitarians there's laddered you know there's so
16:38
many different branches. So many different belief
16:42
systems. Yeah yeah and so you kind of
16:44
have this thing where it's like Christianity doesn't really have
16:47
a real identity and in the same way.
16:50
Theaters belief that term doesn't really have its own
16:52
identity attached to it. Yeah, we're all Anguirus
16:55
Anglo-Saxon which is not actually true because I know of
16:58
to Frisian so and one Continental sex and so actually
17:04
let me Wine and say, we're all heat, and that's about where it
17:07
ends. We do.
17:08
Tend to be obviously heavily reconstruction.
17:10
As focused, we do tend to use a lot of Old English rituals, but
17:17
for the most part, every everything was its own religion.
17:22
Yeah. And let me just let me just
17:24
clarify something because I think some if some people heard
17:27
something that you said might raise some eyebrows and I want
17:29
to catch it while it's fresh. When you say Rican
17:31
reconstruction is focused, you mean focused?
17:34
On reconstruction and not focused.
17:37
Oh yeah we're not focused now we're not focused.
17:39
No absolutely not and I do want to make that clear because a lot
17:44
of people do think that about their disbelief they see while
17:47
you guys are these tiny little tribes and our exclusive
17:51
exclusive to who can enter, how are you not focused?
17:55
Well, first and foremost. There are no race requirements
17:58
to be a heathen. None of us think that no.
18:01
Yeah. There are no gender.
18:04
Requirements or sex requirements.
18:06
That's, that's not. We are exclusive and that we say
18:12
who, or who cannot be in the club, but what, what ends up
18:17
deciding that for us is really, you know, how much they impress
18:23
us with their dedication to learning how how interested they
18:28
really are in being a part of this with us.
18:30
And then we have a years long period where we get to observe.
18:34
Give them and make sure we trust them and then they come into the
18:37
club but it's not like you can't be in our club because you're
18:42
not the right skin color. We don't do that now and I knew
18:46
that but I just wanted to go, I was like wow, he just said
18:48
something that if anybody is listening and can't respond in
18:51
real-time like what do you what do you mean?
18:52
And then it's like everybody gets shot like the whole thing
18:55
just like gets shut down. I was like I know what you meant
18:58
and I know what you said but like if in case you thought he
19:00
said something let's let's just clear that are right off the
19:03
back and that's exactly. And so That's actually the other
19:05
point that I was going to bring up the other reason when I said
19:07
you know the theaters belief is dying is that the what we you
19:16
know we don't own the term data belief and neither does the man
19:20
who began who began their disbelief, he still alive.
19:25
Garmin Lord is still alive and well, and Garmin Lord has
19:32
decided for reasons. Ins that I don't care to
19:36
speculate on that he is going to be directly supportive of the
19:46
the I can't God. What's the name of the the the
19:50
Elder teacher? The Elder, the Elder.
19:54
Each is absolutely full of Nazis.
19:58
They have had so much problem with I'll rephrase that.
20:03
That's, that's probably react. Mary, they're absolutely full of
20:06
racists and they've had a ton of problems with their, they're
20:11
racist things that they've said they are full ksh.
20:14
They're they're you know, explicitly focus and Garmin Lord
20:22
has decided that that is what theaters belief is.
20:25
And so we have decided that we're not going to fight over a
20:30
term with him. It he's welcome to it.
20:35
We are not part of that anymore. We were never knowingly.
20:42
A part of anything that would be construed as a racist sexist,
20:45
misogynist organization. We are much more open than that
20:52
and I mean I know that's why some of the Lord's have decided
20:55
to sort of part ways. I think some other Lords
20:58
moralizer. Like just, you don't get to tell
21:00
me what to do. So, yeah.
21:02
Well so That's the thing about it right?
21:04
Like you talking about how heavily focused you guys, tend
21:08
to be on reconstructionism and the focus on the Saxon side of
21:13
hidenori, whether it be Continental Germania or
21:16
Anglo-Saxon, right? They'd was the name was the oil
21:20
is the old English name for King, right?
21:23
So Theta is amorth a dish beliefs has this sort of and you
21:27
can coming again, you're the expert here as far as my
21:29
understanding is as like a king Kingdom monarch.
21:35
Saki-chan shh? Yeah yeah.
21:36
Thank you, right. So, so, actually Theta this
21:39
belief, the term Theta that is not from King.
21:42
It's from people people to stand.
21:45
So, a, when you would say, I am in 8th, Ed, you would be saying
21:49
I am in a group of people. And so theaters, belief or in
21:54
Old English mind. They too shall Ava would be my
22:00
people's belief, but it is, I think that astute observation
22:05
that they'd King and with a odd, people are related
22:08
linguistically and that's part of our religion is that kingship
22:14
cannot be removed from from Divinity.
22:19
Divinity was the original kingship those Lords think the
22:24
sacred us. So hold on I think I do.
22:29
Yep. Sorry.
22:31
So we believe Eve in a line of what we call luck, which is
22:39
probably more closely resembles. Fortune in the Greek sense, it
22:43
is the sort of lines of divine influence that come down from
22:51
the gods themselves. And we believe that that has to
22:55
flow in a direction, usually through a leader of a people,
23:00
being a king, or as the Norse would have called Goethe the
23:05
leader of the people or I guess URLs to but yeah, I see you sort
23:11
of see my point here that we believe there is a progression
23:14
of power that comes down through the gods and threw an egg at a
23:19
mortal intercessor between the Gods in the tribe.
23:21
I feel that the the term king or the term, the chieftain the go
23:27
the whatever the whatever that sacred role.
23:30
That that position there like the caretakers of of the look
23:35
that you're talking about they are they are caretakers of it
23:38
and so it is absolutely their responsibility to protect it and
23:41
preserve it and to do the things that maintain that lie under the
23:49
next one that carries, they're not just the Protectors of the
23:51
luck there. Also the dispensers of the lock
23:53
because yes, because they act in that role as mortal intercessor,
23:57
between God and tribe. It is their sacred and solemn
24:02
duty to Dispense that luck where it should go based on generally
24:08
that you know the worthiness of the person who is receiving it
24:14
and work through this. I'm sorry, go ahead.
24:17
No, I didn't want to interrupt you man.
24:19
I was just trying. I think like, which goes back to
24:21
what you were saying with when like how you gatekeeper or and
24:26
that's what that's a horrible term.
24:27
I shouldn't, you know, be gatekeeper is, you know, how you
24:29
protect that tribes luck in inviting new members.
24:31
Is that Worthing Process that year of like probation or
24:35
whatever. Like we got to make sure that
24:36
you're that you're cut from the right jib and that you're doing,
24:38
the things that are going to add two.
24:42
The luck. Yeah.
24:43
Like that gets distributed. Get like you were talking about.
24:45
Right? If for I mean I don't think
24:47
gatekeeping is the wrong word. I mean, I think a keeping has
24:50
obviously a very negative connotation.
24:51
Yeah. Exactly.
24:53
But it was our turn to some extent.
24:55
I think that negative connotation maybe deserved in
24:57
this case. I mean, yes, the job of the
25:01
chieftain or goatee or in our case, the week we have Lords,
25:06
the job of the Lord is to make sure that he's not letting
25:10
Grendel enter the Hall. And in if Grendel gets in the
25:14
hall then it's nobody else's fault in that room besides the
25:21
the lord of the hall who led a man.
25:23
And so the Lord has to be very Discerning to make sure that
25:27
he's not inviting. Not just a person who's going to
25:30
burn everything down on the way out, but just a person who won't
25:34
fit with the tribe because if the Lord invites, this person
25:37
who doesn't fit well with the tribe nobody really likes them.
25:41
He may be very He's smart but he's just not getting along with
25:43
anybody at the lord loves them. He ends up getting through his
25:47
worth in process and becoming if they had salmon that man is my
25:51
brother, no matter how I feel about him, he is a part of my
25:55
tribe now and so that can cause a lot of very, very painful
26:01
destructive divisions. So yeah, the Lord is
26:06
exclusionary, they say--it's are exclusive and they are exclusive
26:11
because not because we're like We don't want you to be a part
26:13
of our religion. It's more like, hey, man.
26:16
There are 14 of us who meet relatively frequently and three
26:20
of us, just don't like talking to you.
26:23
And if we bring you in, they're still not going to like talking
26:26
to you and it's going to cause shit inside of our thiet.
26:29
It's not because we're hateful. It's not because we're cruel or
26:33
that we don't want other people to have what we have.
26:36
It's just because you're not a good fit, you might not be a
26:40
good fit for our theater, you know, and so that That is why we
26:42
are as exclusive as we are. And I've, you know what, you
26:46
know, I think that this is an important thing to discuss
26:50
because in the 21st century in 2021, you know, and so much of
26:54
this, you know, cancel culture. And you can't say this, you
26:57
can't do that. You you know you're such and
27:00
such for for for putting up these not guidelines.
27:04
But like for saying, the certain thing or for doing this certain
27:06
thing and just I like the fact that what we talked about
27:11
earlier is how Everything you are of everybody, and anybody in
27:16
that none is like religion, race, sex, gender, none of that
27:18
matters. But what the like, what value do
27:21
you bring? What is your worth and how that
27:23
process is done? And I see that more and more
27:25
being looked at. There's, there's not a lot of
27:29
people I think that that I know of at least that don't see it.
27:33
So you see some value in that, you know, you want to make sure
27:35
that you're protecting those that are nearest and dearest to
27:38
you. And if you, you know, you let
27:39
him like you say that, Grendel, which for anyone not aware.
27:42
Are you know, Beowulf read it? Yeah, I kind of like it because
27:49
NY, right? Because I mean we see, you know
27:51
yes it's a saga but I mean we see the actual, you know, ritual
27:56
of of sambal being executed. We learned so many fundamental
28:01
working, Heathen re things being displayed in a saga, right?
28:06
So one of the things I do want to, I do want to point out is
28:09
that, I think one of the things that, that I have seen A lot of
28:13
newer heathens because we see the game has changed when I came
28:16
into Heathen or a especially online hidenori.
28:21
Every Facebook page every back it was before Facebook.
28:26
But every social media page every internet page you would
28:29
see would be, they would even be talking about reconstruction.
28:34
It would be esoteric it would be out there, you know, with no
28:39
real art accrue. Yeah.
28:42
Yeah, a lot of that. And so, you know, now that's
28:45
kind of, its kind of the norm for most Heathen spaces online
28:51
to have at least some reconstruction and them or at
28:53
least talk about the merits of reconstruction.
28:55
And and so, the game is really changed from what I first
28:58
started, dipping my toes into online Heathen or e, but one of
29:02
the things that's great in a lot of ways, but in another way,
29:05
it's kind of bad and it's bad in that a lot of newer heathens are
29:09
learning terms Without Really learning what they mean.
29:12
And sometimes those terms can sound a lot like things, you
29:14
think, you know, but they don't actually mean the same thing.
29:18
And so, it's very important for me.
29:21
I see worth used very, very wrong on most Heathen spaces
29:26
right now. Connor, what about Britt?
29:28
Those are some real, all of those things.
29:30
All of those words are consistently misused, because
29:32
people don't understand that it that Englishmen in 800 ad had a
29:38
different understanding of that word.
29:40
Then When Gutenberg did, when he made the printing press.
29:44
So like those words changed a lot in that time period.
29:49
And so when we say worth, when we say that a person is not or
29:56
does not have Worth to us. We are not saying that that
29:59
person is not a valuable human being worth does not mean value.
30:07
So if you will, you will cut you.
30:09
I will say constantly but you will frequently hear data.
30:12
People say things like, I don't care what that dude says he's
30:15
worthless. And if you're outside of our
30:19
spheres, then your first thought is what we're saying is that
30:22
person. We are saying that person has no
30:24
value. As subhuman is not you know is
30:27
awful. Yeah we're not saying that that
30:30
person is completely valuable, they are valuable to society
30:33
into their family but they do not have Worth to us worth in
30:37
the Old English sense of it. Meaning they have not gone
30:41
through any ordeal with us whatsoever, we don't trust them.
30:47
Don't know them. Yes they're somebody but they
30:49
have no Worth to us. Glad you said I'm glad you said
30:55
I'm sorry to cut you off. I'm glad you said that not
30:57
having gone through ordeal. I'll come back to that in a
31:00
minute, but go ahead and continue well.
31:01
So and we have a saying in White Marsh were thing is ordeal and I
31:05
that might not just be a White Marsh saying it might be a
31:08
greater Theta Shane. But when we say were thing is
31:11
ordeal, first of all, to were thing process, a thrall does not
31:15
come into theaters belief. Valueless they come in worthless
31:19
and we call them worthless thrall again, because they have
31:22
not gone through or deal with us.
31:24
They have not established trust and lines of communication with
31:27
us. There are valuable people, but
31:29
they're worthless to us. And so they have to go through
31:34
if a person tries to join White Marsh and they are accepted into
31:39
our work. Will call it, our work, study
31:41
training program, AKA thraldom, If they are accepted into
31:49
thraldom than they have a year and a day period where they go
31:54
through or deal with us they talk with us when we get
31:58
together at at an event, they are going to wash the dishes.
32:03
They are going to carry the trash outside.
32:05
They're going to do all the grunt work for that year.
32:08
If they're capable of it, if you know, if they're physically fit
32:11
enough to do those things, if not we're just going to make
32:13
them read a bunch of stuff and that's also where deal but
32:16
ordeal. Liz going through stuff together
32:18
as a people, even if it is as simple as making a meal and
32:21
carrying the trash out, it is that ordeal it is that, that
32:25
time of learning one another, and going through stuff together
32:30
that builds worth between people and I get long-winded so please
32:35
cut me off. No no I'm glad you're going into
32:37
this because going back to what I said earlier about the whole
32:40
ordeal thing, your phrase that you're the White Marsh you say
32:46
is coined or What? I've heard ordeal breeds worth.
32:52
Yeah yeah. I mean yeah and and some of the
32:55
things that you're talking about because like let's let's let's
32:58
kind of like try to take like an outsider's or third parties per
33:01
second perspective. It's like oh you're probating.
33:03
You know, you want me to be the kitchen bitch, you want me to do
33:06
this, you want me to do you want me to all these stupid little
33:08
things? Yes, but there's a purpose
33:10
behind it which is going to touch on a topic that I talked
33:13
about last week with another guest of mine on last week's,
33:15
podcast about the differences. Has of intent and purpose.
33:19
The intent with what you're talking about is to build that
33:23
trust. The purpose is because again,
33:24
goes back to the whole luck thing and that you are, you are,
33:28
you are, you are becoming part of a web, you are your threads
33:31
of weird are being tied together.
33:34
Now, at that point. So it's not just what you do.
33:36
You're now doing things that are going to affect the people
33:38
around you, your brethren, your folk your tribe.
33:40
Whatever. And that's why you're doing us a
33:43
purpose behind you're doing and that's what's going to determine
33:46
your worth. Which is placed upon you by the
33:49
people, right? Worth is determined in and
33:51
placed upon you by the people. Yeah, through ordeal.
33:55
And then when the big things hit, you know, when family
33:57
members die, or when a house just you know, becomes the
34:00
decrepit or you have to, you know, dig out a well or you have
34:04
to do these things. Those trivial seemingly trivial
34:06
things at the beginning of that, thraldom, all right, when you're
34:09
doing all that probating, as it were peaches, those values,
34:13
teaches those perspective teaches that worldview in a way
34:16
and make XU appreciate and understand now, when the bigger
34:19
things hit your, your Fokker there, your Theta.
34:22
Is there your your people are there?
34:24
I really actually like the the, the analogy of probating like
34:28
probating into an MC. Yeah, exactly.
34:31
Or at basic training, in the military, I mean, yeah.
34:34
You basic training in the military.
34:35
What do you do? You learn how to be a soldier?
34:40
What do you do during thraldom? You learn how to be a Statesman
34:44
and you know, what is the downside of Being in basic
34:47
training and they're going to make you do KP, they're going to
34:49
make you about the floors. All the shit they don't want to
34:51
do. They're going to make you do it
34:54
and you know then thraldom that electrician is alive and well.
34:58
But it's also a situation where like if a person were to come in
35:01
and they were physically disabled in a way where they
35:04
couldn't do the physical grunt work.
35:06
We you know, it is not a prerequisite, we're not telling
35:09
a person with asthma, you have to do this or you can't be at
35:12
they it's mean it's just sort of it's a tradition and I'm lazy
35:17
man, I'm 43 years old. And if I have a thrall Who Wants
35:20
to Be in My Tribe and I don't want to walk in the other room
35:22
and get myself a beer. I mean, come on.
35:25
Yeah man. You can prove to me that you
35:27
deserve to be my man, go get me a beer, right?
35:32
So yeah, I mean and and they do over that period of time.
35:34
These people I have been a thrall and I have I have raised
35:39
a thrall and I have been around many thralls.
35:42
And the thing is, I guess we go for the term sale on now because
35:46
it Less negative connotations but I've been around many teyla.
35:51
And what I have found is that these people come in and you
35:55
don't know them from Adam, you may have had some interaction
35:58
with them online. You may have met them at one or
36:00
two Heathen events, but you don't really know them.
36:02
Most of the time and a year and a day later you would die for
36:08
these people. They're your best friends.
36:11
It is like I think about the people who went through thraldom
36:15
with me and White Marsh, and, There's nothing that I wouldn't
36:20
do now. One of them I came in with he
36:22
was my friend long before that, but another, I had only ever
36:25
seen her online. I'd never met her before I'm
36:28
talking about my sister. Ashley, I don't know if she
36:30
listens but if she does what's up, Ashley?
36:32
I love you. Yeah, I would 1000% die for any
36:36
member of Ashley's family now and that is that, that is worth,
36:41
that's what worth means. You know, it's not about value.
36:46
It's about what I'm willing to put.
36:48
A line for that other person and when I tell you about it like
36:52
one of the things that makes me so sad about about you know,
36:56
regular Heathen groups, I say regular Heathen groups.
36:59
I mean like Heathen groups, where they meet like you know
37:03
ever so often but they don't really talk and they're not
37:05
really friends and Catherine let that one Weirdo And we don't
37:08
like camp like yeah, it's so sad to me because they don't have
37:12
what I've got. And what I have is that if I get
37:16
like I haven't been able to do ritual with White Marsh.
37:18
Now for the whole pandemic and I feel like there's something
37:22
physically missing from my body dude and I will not feel whole
37:26
again until I do my rituals with my people and I am sad that more
37:30
groups don't have that and that that right there, what you just
37:34
said, man, hit in a way that I can't.
37:40
I can't put into words like similarly, like our tribe, which
37:44
is a when I say Drive, I don't mean like, oh you got about
37:47
15-20 people. Like it's I can count on one
37:50
hand like the amount of people that are my tribe and the last
37:55
thing that we did ritually was, so you're blue.
38:01
We didn't even get the chance to get together for veteran after
38:06
the winter nights. Yeah.
38:07
This past couple of weeks ago you know which I know that like
38:10
for a lot of historical dramatic heathens you know depending on
38:15
if you're you know focus is like the Scandinavian or Or Mainland
38:19
Germania, like a lot of it falls close.
38:21
Like the months the moons are called something different but
38:25
you know, for us, like winter nights was a big deal.
38:28
We had a big fire thing last year and we you know, we it was
38:32
great because we formulated a quote wicker, man.
38:36
And I say wicker, man, with a very loose hair quotes it going
38:38
on here, but it was basically just a stick.
38:40
Figure sticks that we gathered with our hands bundles of
38:44
kindling that we gather with our hands.
38:45
We wrapped them with twine and then because it was a Fair ball.
38:48
Or, you know, like it was for Freire for winter nights.
38:51
We found you know those big, they're not crap why they are
38:55
not crab apples but they looked they looked like the size of
38:57
softballs big green gnarly things I do, you know I'm
38:59
talking about. But anyway, we like we got a big
39:03
old branch and we tied it off at like the waste of the waiver man
39:06
and like, tied in the the to, you know, who nods there.
39:10
You know what I'm talking about. So you get it right, you know?
39:15
And so like that was our thing list last year we didn't get to
39:18
do it. This year, pandemic aside but it
39:21
actually turned into a thing where it was like one of our
39:24
tribe members got the got got the big you know, covid-19 old
39:31
thing damn thing you know. So you know, I hear what you say
39:35
and I'm like, I feel that and and that you can't replicate
39:38
online. You don't have frith online
39:40
people. You don't, you don't have.
39:43
You have an illusion of you have a something like basic
39:46
understanding or sense of it from because let's face.
39:48
Dude, you've never met in person, but we've shot enough of
39:52
the shit together. And I think, we understand, at
39:54
least, on a loose level about each other, where it's like, We
39:58
get a loose understanding of what for, if means from that,
40:01
but we don't really get it without tying that weird or or
40:06
exchanging those worth type moments.
40:09
You know what I'm saying? Like, you can't do that online.
40:11
It has to be in person and yeah. And like so one of the things
40:18
about theaters belief that I think we're really, really known
40:21
for unfortunately, is that years and years ago running into a
40:27
say, it's Line could be a very dicey proposition because we're
40:31
assholes. We are.
40:35
I can cause right. Yeah.
40:37
Oh yeah. Oh yeah.
40:40
We can be very Brusque. We can be very irritable.
40:44
We're much like a badger and that we will come out of our
40:47
holes, cut you apart with our Claws and go away.
40:51
And so we've rubbed a lot of people a lot of wrong ways over
40:54
the years and you know I would love to sit here and tell you
40:57
You that there's a great excuse for that.
41:00
There isn't. We were irritated.
41:05
All Scorpios are meaner like, what are you not?
41:08
I'm a Scorpio not. None of us.
41:09
Yeah, dude. Scorpio power, man, we go
41:13
actually. That's my be like, no.
41:15
No. So I was a part of the original.
41:18
Do you even Heathen, bro, and I was there for all of it.
41:23
I mean, not for all of it. I was there for most of it and
41:27
It's actually why I'm theaters now.
41:29
Believe it or not, but but we hurt people, I mean, you know,
41:34
now that we are starting to understand the real world
41:40
ramifications of social media better, you know, ten years
41:44
long. We're starting to realize these
41:46
things that we did. We thought they were funny.
41:49
We thought they didn't have a real-world repercussion.
41:52
They did, we hurt people's feelings?
41:55
We made people doubt themselves, we made.
41:57
People feel bad about themselves in ways that I know that some of
42:01
my theaters fellows will hear me saying this and be like, fuck
42:05
that. I don't care.
42:06
But that we do. We do care.
42:08
I care. And so you have noticed I think
42:12
probably over the past 45 years we've really softened art own
42:17
online. The the knobs been dialed down a
42:20
bit. Are you in the, the ausa true
42:22
academic even re group? They recently changed their
42:27
Group name. It's a Facebook group if they
42:29
used to just be plain old also true.
42:31
Oh yeah, yeah. Used to be.
42:32
No, I left. I used to.
42:33
I was on the eggman's of that. For God.
42:36
I was an admin of that for like eight years and recently
42:38
surprise me. Yeah, recently I just, I got in
42:42
an argument with one of the other mods and I was like, I
42:47
could like this dude up, I could kick him off the mod team, but
42:50
the truth is, I don't really like being here.
42:52
It's so I'm just gonna bail. Yeah, no, but I mean like The,
42:57
the overall tone of that group at one time, like it's been
43:00
dialed back down a bit. And even I can say, man, like I
43:04
going back to like, when we first talked about was how we
43:06
met, right? Because I was about to talk
43:08
about, we are our deeds and it was like pump the brake, you
43:11
know, pump the brakes dude. Like, let's talk about this
43:13
first or you really have no business.
43:15
I appreciated that, but I also recognized right that had, I not
43:20
been gone through the ordeals that I had gone through in my
43:23
life experiences, things that I had up to that point outside of
43:26
heathen re I would have been like, well, excuse me, but who
43:30
do you think you are? I'll run my Facebook, the way I
43:33
want and then all like butthurt about it.
43:36
But instead I was like, Well, let me hear what this guy's got
43:41
to say and because of that we've not lost connection, you know?
43:48
I mean like you've not like banned me from your Facebook
43:50
friends. I've not banned you from my and
43:52
you know what I mean? And we still like even though we
43:54
don't talk regularly it's like here we are now all these years
43:57
later, you know, knowing the fat chew on the cud, whatever you
44:00
want to call it about. He then re-type stuff and it's
44:03
like Hey guys, you know, don't don't, don't, don't take it.
44:07
So, personal the time, like words are just words like you
44:10
can do, here's the cool thing. If you don't like it, you can
44:13
ignore it, you know? Like so, you don't have to say
44:16
anything. If you really, you know what I
44:17
mean? Like, if it's just try to prove
44:19
what I would say to, to a certain extent, it's like
44:22
sometimes you get your feelings hurt.
44:24
And if you get your feelings hurt, then that's okay.
44:27
And it is perfectly acceptable to say to someone online.
44:30
Hey man, your tone it down. Please don't talk to me that
44:34
way. But I would I caution against
44:38
just throwing what they're telling you out the window
44:40
because they were mean to you about it because sometimes
44:43
people are mean to you about it because it's the ninth time
44:45
today. They've had to explain the same
44:47
thing to a newbie and they're just irritated and they actually
44:51
do know what they're talking about.
44:52
And I will tell you a story because one of the things I
44:55
liked about you and the early days you told me your story and
44:58
it reminded me so much of how I got where I am and I see you
45:03
sort of following that. Same trajectory.
45:05
And what happened with me is I just come back from Iraq.
45:09
I had. So I was us a true when I was
45:13
14. I think from the time I was 14
45:16
until the time I was 21 and I was a member of a very, very
45:21
large asset or Kindred in eastern Georgia that ended up
45:26
falling apart. But I went back to Catholicism
45:31
while I was in the Army because Take the the like the Pagan
45:36
version that doesn't want to be Pagan.
45:38
That doesn't want to admit. I went back because there
45:42
weren't a lot of Asatru priests hanging out in Iraq and I was
45:46
getting shot at a lot. So I was like, I need a God, to
45:49
talk to stat. You know, it was, it was an
45:53
anxiety response, but I went back to Catholicism and when I
45:55
got out of the army, I was like, what was I thinking?
45:58
That was never what I wanted, and I started transitioning back
46:02
into Heathen or e but I accepted at that time.
46:04
That I really know anything. I had not had been a kid when I
46:08
was in Asatru before, and I was, I wasn't great at it, but every
46:13
time I would go to a in this was the earliest days of Facebook
46:18
every time I go to a Facebook group And be like, hey, I'm
46:22
pretty new to this. I want somebody to talk to you
46:24
about it. It wouldn't be people being
46:27
like, we don't want to talk to you, it would be just straight
46:30
up Nazis being like, yeah, man. You know, what's great about our
46:34
religion Hitler and you're like, what the fuck?
46:37
Man, this is not, this is not what I signed on for dude, all
46:40
right. Yeah, and so, I started this
46:42
scratch, you know, I didn't know heathens United Against Racism,
46:47
was already a thing, but I didn't know about it at the
46:49
time. So I just created this.
46:51
Little Facebook group, called asset ruse Against Racism or
46:58
some. I don't remember something like
46:59
that and I got like yeah, three or four hundred people join it
47:03
and we were having a little discussions and then a member of
47:06
who are did find out about us and sort of brought us into the
47:10
fold a little bit and one day he was like Hey I just want to let
47:13
you know, some people have targeted you for harassment and
47:19
I'm like really Because nobody's bothered me.
47:22
Is it really harassing me if they're not talking to me?
47:25
But he was like, it's this group and he tagged me to do you even
47:29
Heathen, bro? And they'd been about around for
47:32
about three months and maybe more than that and maybe I'm
47:35
like Mike six months to a year, but but I joined them and I was
47:39
like, hey, what's up guys? Want to fucking fight and they
47:42
were just like, whatever kid kid, who the fuck cares?
47:45
You just another dumb ass huge, because do you even eat them?
47:48
Bro. Was an open group you could see
47:49
what was posted and they Stop you if you wanted to join and
47:52
talk to them and so I was just another idiot West.
47:56
Yeah. And I just another like I was an
47:58
idiot but another newbie who wanted more know where to find
48:03
it and I wanted to pick a fight with these dudes and so I
48:07
thought I was going to be real smart and be like, oh yeah.
48:09
Well what about this concept? And they were like look if you
48:12
really want to know, here's where to go.
48:14
Find out about it. If you can't do that shit, then
48:16
don't bother us. So I'm like, I'm gonna go and
48:18
I'm going to read that book. I'm going to prove these
48:20
motherfuckers wrong. Ang and I went read that book
48:22
and I was like, oh no, I think I might have been wrong.
48:26
So I went back to the group at 45 days later I'm like, hey
48:30
guys, y'all still suck but could you explain this thing a little
48:33
bit better? Because it sounds like what you
48:35
were talking about and then just over the course of about four or
48:39
five months of doing this. With these guys, they're still
48:43
they were still Gruff, they were still rude.
48:46
But I they would also be like look man you're trying to learn
48:48
so we're going to help you and I I learned so much more about he
48:54
the Nori and those four five months that I had learned in 20
48:58
years before and they were pointing and it wasn't just
49:00
dudes telling me what they believed.
49:02
They were pointing me towards these resources, they were
49:05
cross-checking with these resources and I was going and I
49:08
was doing the work and reading it.
49:09
And one of the primary members of do you even either, bro, was
49:13
Brian Smith, who is the Lord of White Marsh?
49:16
And so after about three years of bashing my head against this,
49:20
I I asked to to be bought end and here I am.
49:25
So if I had just been like fuck these dues and given up and
49:29
thrown away all these stuff that I could tell that they were
49:32
saying made sense just because they were mean to me then I
49:36
wouldn't be here. I would not have the exact, I
49:38
would have probably gone about to Catholicism some point.
49:41
Yeah because I wasn't finding the meaning that I was looking
49:44
for but because I was able to sort of I don't want to say I
49:48
have a thick skin. I don't they fucking hurt my
49:50
feelings, man. Well, yeah, look like, you know,
49:54
you can be all, bro, whatever Macho, you know.
49:58
Hulk Hogan anything like you can you can put up any kind of
50:02
facade that you want. But like, point point, like case
50:06
in point. I'll say, you know, when, when,
50:08
when you came to me I was like, okay what you know like I mean I
50:13
was like, you know, get my feathers ruffled a little bit.
50:16
I was like, you know, why I did, you know.
50:20
And then like The delivery of it I was like well but again like I
50:24
had had experiences in my life before I was like I'm used to
50:27
getting this sort of treatment because what does it do?
50:29
It challenges your your ego and really does, you know what I
50:35
mean? Like it really freaking does
50:37
man. And and you're not always right,
50:40
you're not and you know what? Sometimes you got to be put in
50:44
your place and you got to be checked and that's part of
50:47
learning, that's part of growth, that's part of living and that's
50:49
part of life. And I would that would be my
50:52
advice to the newer Heathen coming in is that they have to
50:55
be willing to take a few licks from time to time.
50:59
But but I also want to say on the flip side to, I don't want
51:04
to give a piece of advice to fellows like you who are tilting
51:08
past that edge. Now who have tilted towards
51:11
being the people that the newbies come toward come to?
51:14
You know what I'm saying? Like you you're not, you're
51:16
definitely not a newbie and you're not a nobody.
51:18
There are people who come to you.
51:21
My advice to people like you and to Elder heathens is you don't
51:26
have to be a dick about it. And you know, I understand I get
51:31
irritated too and I have been a dick to people online but I look
51:36
back on that and I regret it and I think that you will too, you
51:40
know, if you don't feel like talking to the person, don't
51:42
talk to them. You don't like you said, you
51:44
don't have to respond to everything.
51:46
So if somebody comes in and says something that you know is
51:50
absolutely wrong. Long, you have two choices.
51:53
You can either let them be wrong or you can try to help them.
51:57
We don't need to be dicks, right?
51:59
And, and if you're going to take that plunge, and you're going to
52:02
like put yourself out there as the like I'm willing to help
52:05
approach or I'm willing to like insert myself into that.
52:09
I like I've I've chosen to withdraw so many times because
52:15
I'm like I'm not ready to get into the depths that this is
52:19
about to go. It's like you got to pick those
52:23
kind of say pick those battles but like you got to be picky and
52:25
choosy about it because and because it does it's like you
52:31
going to say something you're going to want to plant that seed
52:33
and it's like now you're ready to water that tree.
52:35
Ryan are you in at position? Are you ready to at least be
52:39
that sort of, you know, influence that that continues to
52:43
nurture because you plant the seed and you can be, I'm not
52:47
saying don't be Brusque about it.
52:49
I you know that's fine because sometimes Got to know that the
52:51
guy that you're talking to you like with you if I could comment
52:54
on, have been like, hey buddy, like maybe don't you like you
52:56
would have blown me completely off you to pay me, no attention.
52:59
But sort of coming at you with like, hey, look, you should
53:01
probably talk to me before you go do that because you're going
53:03
to you're going to step in some shit.
53:04
You know, we're talking about, you could have easily turned me
53:07
away and you know what, if you had it's really no skin off my
53:09
back but I didn't have to approach you that way and look
53:12
to it. People out there, they're going
53:13
to be people. I've seen your number your
53:15
numbers, they're going to be people in your audience that I
53:18
have been addicted to online. I'm James.
53:21
Davey. It was me.
53:23
And you'll notice, I haven't done it in a couple of years
53:26
now, because I started implementing a rule and the rule
53:30
was before I hit send, type it out, man, type it out to your
53:34
heart's fucking content, write a novel, if you want to, but don't
53:36
hit send before you answer this. Simple question to yourself, is
53:40
it, is it possible when I hit send that?
53:42
I'm going to change this person's mind.
53:45
Now there are a bunch of reasons why you not gonna be able to
53:48
change somebody's mind. One is there to sold in, they
53:51
are sold in on being on believing what they believe.
53:55
There is no way to talk them out of it.
53:57
So then there's no reason to hit send because all you're doing at
54:00
that point is stroking, your own ego.
54:02
They're not going to change their mind.
54:03
The other thing is, if you wrote that in such a way where a
54:06
reasonable person would read it and be like, fuck this dude, I
54:09
will never believe what he believes.
54:10
You're still not going to change their mind, don't hit send.
54:13
So if you read that and you I think this person has a
54:15
reasonable chance of having their mind changed and I've
54:18
approached them in a way where I think it might work.
54:20
Then hit send and I learned that I hit send about 95% less often
54:28
than I did before. And honestly, man, my blood
54:32
pressure has gone down. I'm not as angry about things
54:35
anymore. Nobody is anymore right?
54:38
Or less wrong on the internet. So, you know, Let it go.
54:43
If you're a new guy and a Older, if you're a new Heathen and
54:46
older heathens kind of Brusque with you online, brush it off
54:49
your shoulders, pick up the knowledge that you can.
54:51
If you're an old Heathen and you want to be mean to somebody
54:54
online, just this don't like this.
54:57
Don't ya now and I you know I create it or I give credit where
55:03
credit's due man and I appreciate that.
55:06
I appreciate it from both ways, you know because again at the
55:08
time when you and I first met like again you it was probably
55:11
one of those times in your life. I think that was You were just
55:15
kind of that way. Pretty much everybody.
55:18
And I just so happen to choose to not let it get to me to the
55:22
point where I wasn't willing to learn because I'm like, who the
55:24
hell am I to not be able to learn from anybody?
55:28
Because what is it is it? I mean it's bundle manga saga.
55:31
Mean, wisdom is wisdom wherever it comes from and and I I said
55:36
Bond Amanda. That sounds like some Booga
55:38
Booga like I did. Like I didn't say it right?
55:41
He's not even try. I don't speak nor sick.
55:43
But you know, the one Icelandic friends have him.
55:45
Say it Banda Munga Saga or something like that.
55:49
It's one of those things that wisdom is wisdom from wherever
55:54
it comes. And, you know, one of the
55:56
commonalities and we'll wrap it up here soon because I know
55:58
we're getting probably to time or past it, but is, you know,
56:02
Olden, whether it's Odin woden, you know, wisdom is is what
56:09
you're looking for and it, and it comes from wherever it comes
56:14
from places that You may not expect an egg comes from
56:16
sources. That you may not necessarily
56:18
think that that has any value to or whatever at the moment.
56:22
And I you know we are in such that the digital and technology
56:27
age where so much of this stuff gets.
56:29
I mean this is this right here is going out on almost a dozen
56:32
platforms. You know, this is the world that
56:35
we live in, we don't live in the world of, you know, 800-1000
56:41
whatever more years ago when you know, people were riding on
56:44
Horseback and Reverend messages because like it's a different
56:49
time. Yeah, absolutely.
56:50
And some of the stuff, you know, that we talked about earlier,
56:53
you were, you were mentioning and this is almost like, stuff
56:55
for another podcast, even if you ever willing or wanting to come
56:57
back on, but like we were talking earlier about some of
57:00
the things and we are our Deeds, like, that was honestly, one of
57:03
the most influential pieces of written work that helped shape
57:08
me or her, or helped me adopt a worldview.
57:11
That is shaped me into the person that I'm in today.
57:14
Like it was it was a start of things for me to to pursue and
57:20
learn about. It was very first book to do.
57:22
You need, do you even heat? Heat them, both through it.
57:24
Me and for anybody who hasn't read it, I'm obviously going to
57:28
show it because if you buy it through Lulu you we own it.
57:32
So you'll be you ain't in the description, you'll be filling
57:35
out. You'll be paying into the White
57:37
Marsh coffers. But that said I recommend it
57:40
because it is the easiest like you could go read culture.
57:44
Two times. But I'm going to ask you for
57:46
your own sake, to bring a, 2x4 to smash yourself in the head
57:49
with ever. So often still have your edit.
57:51
It is, I don't recommend my new thralls read.
57:55
What was the price of? Lumber is so high.
57:56
Frankly, you're gonna go through so many to by force - my
58:00
thralls. I've always just pulled out
58:02
specific chapters because also, you know, culture the Teutons
58:06
like 100 years old and it hasn't held up parts of it have other
58:09
parts haven't. But, you know, if you go and you
58:13
re culture the Teutons, If you are going to be crossing your
58:17
eyes, trying to read it, if you go and read really, any of the,
58:23
the other big reconstruction texts you're going to have
58:27
trouble, you're going to be struggling, you're going to be
58:29
drooling, trying to keep your damn eyes open, but we are our
58:33
Deeds is like 120 Pages, it is. And that's Big Font and it is
58:42
simple to read it. Does introduce it.
58:44
Concepts that are in Old English, but it does it in a
58:47
very accessible way. And so I always recommend it to
58:50
New he that's because the concepts are well laid out in a
58:53
way that you won't want to kill yourself reading.
58:57
Like I'm just going to try to like hold up a book here for
59:01
scale if it'll even show like we are our Deeds is half of that.
59:05
Yeah half that and in terms of thickness, you know what I'm
59:07
saying? So like when we talk about like
59:09
in this is this is a study version of the poetic Edda which
59:13
has a bunch of myths and sagas. Has contained in it.
59:16
So when we talk about like reading material, I'm not that
59:19
big of a reader. You don't have to be.
59:21
You don't like you. You can literally finish this in
59:24
on a Friday night. If you wanted to, like power
59:27
read through it, if you really want to sit down and tear it
59:29
apart and take notes, I mean you could do it over the course of a
59:33
weekend. Yeah, I'm easily.
59:35
Yeah yeah. So I recommend it I highly
59:39
highly recommend. It's going to intrude but I also
59:41
recommend like I said earlier, keeping in mind that it also
59:44
thing. Change and grow and evolve.
59:46
And you know, one of the oldest bizarre is criticisms that they
59:49
had his belief. People used to accuse us of
59:52
being very dogmatic and we never change.
59:54
When we change all the time we change constantly, we've changed
59:58
so much. Since those books were written
1:00:00
that if we wrote them today, they probably would be as big as
1:00:06
these other texts. Because we've, we've learned a
1:00:09
lot of our eyes. Yeah, right, right.
1:00:11
We've learned a lot, we've also, you know, our thoughts and
1:00:13
theories have changed since then, but it is still even with
1:00:18
that said, you know, grain of salt.
1:00:20
But it is still foundational for understanding concepts, like the
1:00:26
DNR yard, the outer yard, what that actually means because a
1:00:29
lot of people don't really get what that means.
1:00:32
Yeah. And what it means to, you know,
1:00:34
they talk about Frisk quite a lot and look quite a lot.
1:00:37
And so it is it is a really, really strong book for the
1:00:40
beginner. Yeah, yeah.
1:00:42
Highly. I mean, I still I Men that like
1:00:45
when people are like, oh well I'm new to this what should I
1:00:47
you know what should I read? And that like for some reason
1:00:50
you know, like the first thing like and I don't know.
1:00:53
Like I'm going to ask as we wrap this up like the first thing
1:00:55
that a lot of the like the Norse heathens are like, oh what's the
1:01:00
first things I should do? You should get the poetic Edda,
1:01:02
is there an equivalent to that in Anglo-Saxon?
1:01:04
Do the just like everybody just like hey read the alien like
1:01:07
that's your go-to thing. Well that was so not really I
1:01:12
mean I guess Beowulf obviously is the sort of Of the
1:01:15
Anglo-Saxon Heathen text. There's a lot of I mean a lot of
1:01:19
what we know it comes from the words of bead who wrote about,
1:01:25
you know, but he wrote after the end of heathendom but yeah,
1:01:29
Beowulf definitely, but you will never hear.
1:01:32
I think any flavor of anglo-saxon Heathen, be they
1:01:35
foreign Sid or be, they assure White Marsh, any of us we're not
1:01:42
going to be like, well, the first thing you should do is go
1:01:44
Read Beowulf, that'll tell you everything.
1:01:46
And that's the thing is like the poetic that is, right?
1:01:50
And the poetic Edda is also are not like they are a great source
1:01:55
of ideas and understanding about the time in which they were
1:01:59
written. But they are not an instruction
1:02:04
manual for how to be Heathen. And, you know, so it's very
1:02:08
important for us that the first thing that we or will normally
1:02:12
tell you to read. When you come in will tell you
1:02:14
like, they wolf is fine, but you're probably going to want to
1:02:16
read that last. Because if you don't understand
1:02:18
the foundational Concepts going in, you're just going to get
1:02:20
confused. So we'll probably, we usually
1:02:22
probably have them read. We are Deeds first and then
1:02:24
we'll have them read like a toe household spirits will have them
1:02:29
read, you know, we've got a bunch of will Road to Hell by a
1:02:34
thread. Fantastic I'd know that I read
1:02:37
that and say oh I say Odom, yeah, any any sort land that's
1:02:42
that's a big topic of like, you know, death and the afterlife.
1:02:44
Like you want to understand anything about the concepts of
1:02:47
that the road to hell is is like critical reading absolutely
1:02:50
Critical Hits again, though, you know, bring it to buy for its
1:02:54
well, again, it's like, it's not your introductory level stuff
1:02:57
like and I mentioned the alien before, but I'm like is that?
1:03:01
That's even a weird one because it's the gospel.
1:03:04
So, it's gospel but it's like Christ is is a Brighton or
1:03:10
whatever. Like he's a war chief and the
1:03:12
disciples, the apostles are Stains, you know, and that's
1:03:16
Rita reads, it's outdated. But there was a book for a while
1:03:21
that I really liked called D germanization of early medieval
1:03:27
Christianity. And again, it is, it is, it is
1:03:32
somewhat outdated at this point but it talks specifically about
1:03:34
that yet. How in early England
1:03:37
Christianity, the way that they got people to convert was
1:03:39
literally they just they just painted Christianity on top of
1:03:45
Heathen, family structure and and they had structure.
1:03:48
So, yes. Jesus was a sacral King and that
1:03:51
was why you followed him? And so everybody's like well
1:03:53
yeah you gotta follow me. Sacral king of course you have
1:03:55
to follow me sick. Okay.
1:03:56
Switch do and so and that's actually there's a whole, I
1:04:01
cannot remember the name of this paper.
1:04:03
I am so sorry. If you Google it you'll probably
1:04:04
find it. But it discusses, how Jesus was
1:04:07
a warrior king to early medieval English people.
1:04:11
And that has translated directly into the sort of Almost militant
1:04:16
Christianity that we have today, where, as Christianity was very
1:04:19
much, a religious of Christ soldiers in Christ, all of that
1:04:22
came from being change, the the christiany, sorry, the
1:04:26
christianization of England and Saxony because it turns out
1:04:30
we're a warlike people. Wow, imagine that.
1:04:37
Imagine that man. You know what?
1:04:38
We could go on forever about this and I feel like this is
1:04:41
probably a great point to like just say thanks to everyone
1:04:47
listening and watching and stuff like that because I feel like
1:04:49
this could become a three-hour long podcast.
1:04:52
If he wanted to, maybe we have you back and we talked about
1:04:54
some of these other neat things but I'm sure.
1:04:57
Yeah, this is this is really intriguing and and really fun
1:05:01
and I would like, you know. So I'm going to ask the The the
1:05:04
audience, they'll be a poll that I want you guys to check out and
1:05:10
if you want James here to come back and let's talk about some
1:05:14
more more of these types of things, you know, Lefty to see
1:05:17
your feedback about it. But but for now I think that
1:05:22
this is a great kind of like point to just say let's just hit
1:05:26
the buzzer, you know. Let's just talk about jacked.
1:05:29
Yeah I'll touch base with you here in just a second.
1:05:32
James that Don't like Drop for me here.
1:05:34
But for everybody that's listening watching and joining
1:05:38
the premier today on YouTube. Thank you so much.
1:05:41
I hope you guys enjoyed it. If you do not forget to, you
1:05:43
know, upvote the video or up, folk the podcast, on whatever
1:05:46
platform it is that you are streaming watching listening
1:05:50
tuning in from be sure to vote it and engage in that sort of
1:05:53
way. It helps get stuff like this out
1:05:55
to more people. Share, comment, subscribe,
1:05:58
whatever it is, that the platform that you're absorbing
1:06:01
this on calls for you to do. We urge you to, please do it.
1:06:05
Don't forget to check the show notes or description for the
1:06:07
ways that you can support. Not just midgard musings.
1:06:10
Well, yeah, it's a midgard music production.
1:06:13
So the support the podcast support, what I do, you know,
1:06:16
all that funky stuff that I gotta say, but I thank you James
1:06:20
for being here today. Thank you, ma'am.
1:06:22
And to everybody who participates in that poll, don't
1:06:24
worry, it's not gonna hurt my feelings.
1:06:26
You can down vote me all day long.
1:06:28
We're gonna do what we're going to do.
1:06:29
Anyway. You know what's right?
1:06:30
The people are be like, we don't want him back and I'm like,
1:06:32
yeah, but I do. And I run this so you can you
1:06:36
can be here if you want to or not.
1:06:37
But no seriously, your opinions matter.
1:06:39
Your thoughts are very much appreciated.
1:06:42
So Sharon below or over here there where I don't know where
1:06:44
the hell ever shows up. But anyway, you guys are
1:06:47
awesome. Thank you so much hail to you.
1:06:49
All stay safe out there. Stay healthy.
1:06:52
May your hearth fire is always continue to burn bright and
1:06:56
we'll see you in the next episode.
1:06:57
Take care.