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From Workplace Transitions to BDSM: Everything We Aren't Supposed to Talk About-ISH · Surviving-ISH Podcast

• 0:15
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to Surviving Ish, where we talk about the things that just gets on our nerves a little bit.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_00: And maybe, maybe it's not a big deal, but at the time it seems.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm really excited about the guest that we have on today.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_00: We have met through TikTok.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_00: She has been a guest on the Unholier podcast with Jenny, and she's become a great friend and supporter.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm so glad that we finally get to do this.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_00: We've talked about it, I feel like, for months.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_02: We have, David.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_02: It's good to be on and finally to be able to record with you.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_00: It was going to be such a great conversation.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_00: Your um episode with Unholier, I will put in the show notes for everyone to listen to your and story, your your story and and what you went through is it's something.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_00: And but you know what?
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_00: You're surviving it, you're getting through it, and we just adore you here.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_02: I'm excited because at least this one will be a little bit more lighthearted.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you know what though?
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_00: I was recording one day last week, and we were like, yeah, this is gonna be, you know, fun and lighthearted.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_00: And it still was, but it got a little deeper than uh we originally intended, but it's just what good happens with good conversation, you know?
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_00: So that's what that's what I like about this.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_00: We're just gonna go wherever it takes us.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_02: That's true.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_02: And sometimes the lightheartedness, like you said, it goes deep because you're getting comfortable, you're just you're reflecting about how it all really plays and connects.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_00: All right, a what what are you barely surviving this past week or so?
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, so where I work, we're switching from paper to electronic notes.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_02: However, in order to do that, like the county that we're in, they're requiring us that we still do electronic and paper.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_02: So it's double the work.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_02: It's learning a whole new system, and it's driving me completely insane because after work, it's like I have to come home and do my notes.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_02: So it's just eating at my time and it's driving me insane, and it's been making me so irritable with people.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_00: I worked for a company where we had to where we were paper and then was going electronic, and part of my department was doing exactly what you're doing.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_00: And and you're right, you're doing double the work, but it's not double the pay.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_02: It's not, it's not, and that irritates me too, because it's like my time is money, and like I even sassed off to my supervisor, and I'm like, this is double the work, like we're paid, but like not nearly enough for this.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_02: It's like you're eating into my personal time now.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_02: Like I have like a little boy, and I just want to go home.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_02: And after work is done, I want it to be done.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_02: I don't want to come home and have to think about it.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_00: I know.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_00: Well, and and this is where I get irritated with companies, and I hope that I never become this kind of company, you know, where you forget where you come from, kind of thing, you know, as as I grow and things change, because there has to be a work-life balance, and things like this is what gets people burnt out.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_00: And when you start entertaining my personal time, you know, you had mentioned you have a a son, right?
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_00: A year ago, I was in a a relationship, and sometimes work would interfere with that.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_00: And I couldn't imagine if I had a child, but when exposed but especially when I became single or people when people knew at work that I didn't have a child, I was always the first one they would nominate to oh, well, you can do holidays, you could do the extra work because you have no reason to go home.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't I've got bot away now.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_00: I've got plenty of reasons to go home.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you still have a family even if you don't have kids.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_02: And it's like just because you have kids, you can't have that entitlement.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_02: That's how I feel about it.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_02: There's holidays that I've worked and I have a kid.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_02: It's like they really, if they're young enough, they really don't understand the concept of what days holidays fall on.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_02: Just you decided to have the kid.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe you didn't, okay, but like you decided to keep going with the responsibility.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_02: So it doesn't exempt you from like, oh well, I get my holidays off because I have a kid.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_00: And in it, I just felt so unseen and and less than it was almost like it's almost like my lifestyle and who I am as a person.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_00: They found almost a way to use it against me for their advantage.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_00: Like, oh well, you're not allowed to get married.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_00: Of course, this was a long time ago, but you're not allowed to get married, you don't have children, you're you're not as good as us, and so therefore, your needs and wants and desires doesn't matter as much.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, you should be wanting to put kids first, and that means our kids come first, which means we get to have the holidays off and you have to work.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_02: So, what's funny is what I would tell them is I'm still a person, I can still put my first my myself first, and I'm not a part of your relationship.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_02: I am not the parent.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_02: I don't have to put your kids first.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_00: Not make the decision to have children.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you know exactly and but one thing that I will say about me is I'm really good at not letting people do that too many times.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's like you get your one try, you know, and then you can't hear me out and you do it again, we're gonna have a problem.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_00: And and I stand up for myself.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_00: And and so I don't know.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_00: I just hope that as my company grows, you know, and as I hopefully grow in podcasting world, that I never forget the lessons along the way that I've loved working corporate jobs being the bottom line, the bottom of the totem pole.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I hate that work is not giving you a break right now, but hopefully you get recognized.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_00: Hopefully, there's some good that comes out of it for you.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_00: And if not, you know where to come bitch about it.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_03: I do, I do.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so here is what I'm barely surviving, what I'm surviving-ish this week.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_00: And I say this week, but this has been an ongoing thing.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know if I say my name weird when someone asks me my name, or like if I answer my office phone, I say, you know, this is Steven.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_00: And everyone's always like, hey Steven.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_00: I have been called Steven after telling someone my name.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_00: It has been written on my Starbucks cup.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_00: It has been said to my face, you know.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, oh, I'm uh uh like on Zooms and stuff like that, like uh like with work where someone probably, you know, maybe is just seeing me for the first time, like for my actual real day job.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_00: Or if I answer my office phone, like this is David.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_00: They're like, hey Steven, is David there?
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, this is David.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_00: And then sometimes I just don't even correct them.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, whatever, you know, but then they end up becoming clients and they think my name is Steven.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_00: And so I have had it with that.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_00: I have recorded myself saying it.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_00: I've tried to pay attention to how I say it, I've tried to say it differently.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, but people hear Steven when I say this is David, do you hear Steven?
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_02: I don't.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_02: However, it makes me wonder if like it's the connection, like if it's funny, like if the connection's like fuzzy or something like that.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_00: But this happens on a daily basis.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_00: It was happened for years with different people.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_00: Like, this is not a brand new thing.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_00: It's something that has always people will call my company and talk about this Steven guy, and they have no idea who the hell they're talking about.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_00: Like it this happen, like it was it will I will going through the drive-thru, someone said, Can I get a name for the order?
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_00: And I and I say, uh, I'll say David.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_00: And they'll say, Okay, thanks, Steven.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I don't know about it.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_02: So weird.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_00: I know.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_02: Like I hear David just fine, like ever since day one.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_00: I know.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_00: I just cannot wrap my mind around it.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_00: And then there's another part to this story with well, not to the actual Steven part of the story, but for names.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_00: So I had recently decided I was gonna put myself back out into the dating world.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, because I was in a seven-year relationship until a little over a year ago.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_00: And the past, I don't know, I would say maybe two or three months.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_00: I've been like, you know what?
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna put myself back out in the dating world and see what that's like.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_03: Wow, that's a whole other podcast, but I'll just say this there is P in the dating pool.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_00: Listen, and so I started seeing this guy.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_00: We went out several times, and I have two friends that were driving through, and they were staying here for a few days, and uh, the guy that I was seeing stopped by, and the two people that were staying with me were in the living area, and so when he came in, I introduced him.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_00: I said, Hey guys, you know, this is Mason, and then he and I came back to the bedroom, and you know, we're gonna watch the movie or whatever.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_00: And so when we get to the bedroom, he said, David, you called me Mason.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_00: And I said, Yeah, like you're in my phone as Mason.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_00: I've called you Mason for the past two weeks, but I don't really use people's names often, you know.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and he was like, Well, you've called me Mason a time or two, but he was like, I always thought you're just trying to be funny, like you're trying to call me another dude's name.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_00: Like, hey Mason, do you want something else to drink?
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_00: And you want to, you know, we want a soda or something, you know, trying to act like you're calling me a different name just to be silly.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but he was like, My name is Matthew.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_02: Oh my goodness.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_00: I had him in my phone as Mason.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_00: I have called him and told anybody that I've mentioned about him, you know, any stories I've shared, I've I've said Mason.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_00: And his name is Matthew.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_00: And I said at this point, I think it's just easier that you change your name because Exactly.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_02: Kind of funny story to play off of yours.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_02: I have this friend that I've had ever since kindergarten, and it's a similar situation, but ever since kindergarten, up until like our 20s, I have always called him Brandon, and it was like a few years after we graduated, and he looks at me and he goes, You know my real name, right?
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, Yeah, it's Brandon.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_02: And he was like, No, it's Josh.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, How did I go all these years without saying, without you saying anything?
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_00: And like, they're not even close.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_02: They're not.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_02: I do that all the time, and I wonder if it's just something that we do because I can see people and I'll look at them.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_02: And at first, if I don't know their names, like I have neighbors down the street, we just wave, they're my favorite neighbors.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_02: I'll drive past, we wave, they wave.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_02: I name them Dan and Linda.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_02: So it's like I can't imagine if we start talking and I just start calling them Dan and Linda.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_02: Like in my head, I name people.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so I wonder if you do the same thing.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, they're always gonna be Dan and Linda, even if you find out their name is Bob and Charlene.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_00: You know, like they're Dan and Linda.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_03: It's just Dan and Linda.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_00: Another part of that story is I don't know this for sure, but I have enough evidence that I believe he did tell me his name was Mason, but then he started liking me more than he realized and tried to find a way to correct it.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_00: And he corrected it by gaslighting me.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, and so that kind of started like the next day after I was thinking about the Mason Matthew thing, I was like scratching my head with it.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_00: I was going back through text messages and all kinds of things.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_00: I think that he's still married, I think that he's still married, and um, I called him out on it and I haven't heard from him since.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's a big red flag.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and but how dare he think that I'm dumb enough?
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_00: Now, I will give you the name thing because the reason I can't get too mad about the David slash Stephen thing is because I'm horrible at names.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like you in my phone.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_00: Like people, if you go through my contacts, it's like I'm trying to think of a funny one, like guy at Walmart, construction worker, you know.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I I barely have even real names on my phone because I'm horrible at names, I just have a bunch of descriptives.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, because you need that sometimes.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_00: How do I know this person?
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_00: But so with that being said, how is it life on your end on a deeper scale with the dating and and relationships and and being a survivor of a traumatic event that because I know that personally mine has affected good and bad ups and downs in all of my relationships, not just my romantic ones.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_02: Um, it's been hard, isn't even the word.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_02: If you can think past difficult, it I struggle with it.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_02: I struggle with it because like there's a part of me, so I'm kind of a mix.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_02: Like, if you've heard of the anxious attachment style and the avoidant attachment style, I'm a mix of both, but it depends on the person.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_02: Of course, like um growing up up in the IFB, like um, you've heard like books and movies and stuff like uh I kissed Stadium Goodbye.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_02: So in my mind, it was always long term, and then you were always taught, like, oh well, you know, you can't date too many people because it's like practicing divorce.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_02: I'm 36, never been married, but it's like I've I've had my fair share of relationships.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_02: My longest was like seven and a half years, very complicated relationship because you could tell that we were both traumatized.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_00: Were they part of the IFB?
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_00: Were they part of like the cult like no it was a different kind of trauma?
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_00: So you all wasn't so but but you can still trauma bond with people who didn't have the same kind of trauma as you.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_00: So was it one of those situations?
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_02: It was definitely like a sexual assault situation, and I found that any person I've dated has that behind them, you know, that or they're struggling with their sexual identity, which was basically for me because at first it was like, oh, I'm straight, I'm bi.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_02: No, I'm a lesbian, I don't want to even look at a guy anymore, and then it's like, oh, I'm pansexual.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_02: So if it flows, it goes.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_02: So it's like I'm just tired of the labels, especially whenever it comes to sexuality, because I learned that it's just so fluid.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, and you know, I I recently found a different pattern that's changed in my life, and it's like the more that I've come to terms with the situation of everything that happened at the Haven, um, I started attracting people that were either adopted or in a similar situation and things like that.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_02: So it's like, oh wow, like, you know, you meet somebody, you're like, this person can actually understand.
• 14:56
  unknown: Yeah.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_02: You know, especially if they're adopted, because it's like at 16, it's like, oh, I'm dropped off.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_02: You know, that breaks a lot of trust.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_02: And then it's like you have a partner that's been adopted, so they have like the same, maybe not exactly the same, but similar abandonment issues as you.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_02: So it's like I attract the people with abandonment issues, sexual trauma, mommy and daddy issues.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_02: Great, I have them both.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_02: So it's like part of love language is understanding, and I think we don't talk about that enough or see that enough as a love language.
• 15:30
  unknown: Yeah.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_02: So then I get attracted to that.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_02: But then it's also bad because it's like then your traumas are conflicting and you're triggering each other without meaning to.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_00: So it's a crazy world, you know, and and I found that after my trauma that I was attracted to and and people were being attracted to me that and and kind of drawn to me, and that attraction didn't always have to be sexual, right?
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_00: But it's like everyone else coming into my life had um some kind of sexual assault, uh, a big T.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that I think that our bodies and minds do just know where is maybe safe in some situations, and that's where they're drawn, we're drawn to each other, you know.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's just like that statistic of if it's happened, if sexual assault has happened to you one time, you're at higher risk of it happening again than it than it being a one and done.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_00: And so when you hear these stories of this girl is saying she's been raped three times, and there's no way that's true, there's a big way that that's true.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_02: I've heard that a lot, and what people don't understand is somebody who's recovering from sexual assault, they're like, oh, it happened once, so they'll know better.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_02: What they don't understand is predators look for that.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, they look for that and they're like, oh, well, it's already happened once, like she's already this or that.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's like she's going to start thinking it's a her problem.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_02: And that's the way that they think.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_02: Because in society today, they're like, oh, well, people who were sexually assaulted with me, it was, what were you wearing?
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_02: And you've seen that picture.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_02: I'm covered from neck down to ankle.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's not what I did that I was wearing.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_02: Because if we think about it, infants, animals, and corpses are right, you know.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so it's it's not a wearing problem.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_02: It's a personal.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_00: And you're right.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_00: Like I think predators, if if they know that this person has been sexually assaulted at least one time and and that it's publicly known, you know, uh regardless of how big they're publicly known is, then they're the prime target for it to happen again because odds are they were dealing with victim blaming already.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_00: They've already been shamed, they've already been asked what they were wearing, you know, and and how is this their fault, which means the second time you may be a little bit more quieter.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and that's what they want to do, is they want to try to take away your voice.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_02: And like whenever I'm at the Haven, whenever that happened, it's like you're setting children up for that, especially whenever you are telling strangers, like, hey, my parents didn't believe me, my parents don't trust me, I'm out of state, they're across state lines, and here I am.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_02: You know, so they're like, they're opportunists.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_02: They're opportunists, and a lot of people don't understand that predators prey upon the support system too.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_00: Mm-hmm.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_02: They do.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, that the I I talk about the victim blaming a lot, and you know, we're we're trained and groomed to say certain and to have certain responses to things, I think, because we're we've got to have the bad guy.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_00: Like if I hear a bad story about a bad, ugly man or or woman, I need to have a way to justify it, to have them put away, to have a way to blame someone because it makes me feel better.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_00: And so when you hear the stories of, you know, breaking news, college girl walking to her dorm, dark outside, and uh backpack on, and some frat guys find her, abduct her, and rape her.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_00: The first thing that we say is, why was she out in the dark by herself?
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_02: Yep, and it shouldn't be that way.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_00: Why was she in her cheerleading outfit?
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_00: Was she was she drunk?
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_00: I don't give a damn.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it doesn't matter.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_02: But we'll she could be walking around in pasties and a thong.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_02: That's still not consent.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_00: But we have to say these things because then we're able to say if we can put the blame on the victim, then we I think we maybe feel like we have more control over it.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_00: Well, next time we just do the buddy system, next time we don't have as much to drink, next time I don't wear my cheerleading outfit from my cheerleading practice to my car to my dorm room.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_00: So now all the responsibility is on the victim.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_00: And and if you do wear your cheerleading outfit again in the dark and it happens to you again, well, you should have learned the first time, baby.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_00: And it's so mad because that is not true.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_00: And and the fact that, like what was it, the 80s, I think, is when it was determined that a husband could still rape uh rape his wife.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_00: So I don't care if you are agreeing to sex and everything is consensual, and three or five minutes into it, you say, you know what, I'm not feeling it, stop, and they don't, it's rape.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you still have to stop.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_00: The moment you're told to stop.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_00: That's why I think safe words are so important.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_00: Because sometimes you can misunderstand a stop, right?
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_00: Like, and I just mean that because that those video I was watching of people that are into like the what is it, like the BDSM kind of stuff.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_00: And so there's role playings to things, which is why the safe word is important.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_00: I've never done anything like that, so I'm kind of um foreign to it.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_00: But if it is two consensual, I don't care if it's ten consensual adults, as long as everyone is consenting and there's a safe word or that they understand stop when then have at it.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_00: I would I all I mind, all I care about is that it's two or more.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_00: Anyone involved, right?
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, are all consensual adults, preferably human.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_02: I I laughed because I actually know a lot about BDSM.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_02: Oh yeah.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_02: And like it's more than just a safe word.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_02: Like a lot of people think BDSM and they think sexual, but you actually have to build a trust.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_02: Because if you have a dominant and a submissive, and I've seen this a Lot people automatically think the dominant is in control.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_02: No, not I it's the submissive because they're the one offering themselves to you as a gift.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_02: Domination is a responsibility.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_02: You know, you have to have that trust, communication, consent.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_02: Consent is big.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_02: And like you have to go over the boundaries, what's hard and what's soft.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_02: So whenever I hear people go, oh, I'm a dominant, and like you just have to do this because I said so.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_02: No, it's it's the submissive in charge because with no submissive, you're not a dominant, there's nothing that you can do.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_02: Because submission is a gift at the end of the day, it is a gift that is earned, and as a dominant, you are creating a safe space for your submissive to explore and you know have that fun with you and that intimacy.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_02: And then there is aftercare because you want to prevent the sub drop.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_00: All right, I've got a lot to learn, and I'm interested.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_03: You're like, we gotta talk about this more.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, we just figure out a new subject to talk about on another show.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_01: We definitely did.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_00: Because I think that I've never done like an actual like role playing thing, I guess.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I know the people that have, and I've always had a curiosity about it because like I'm a faithful person, but sometimes you know it's like we're told that you're only supposed to have one partner unless you're a man.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_00: Now, if you are a straight man, you get to have all the partners and want to have Fabio.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_00: However, I don't know who you're supposed to be having sex with because you can't have sex with gay men because they're awful and they're slots, and you can't have sex with women because if they have sex with more than one man, they're slots.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_00: So, all right, men, so who y'all fucking?
• 24:00
  unknown: Yeah.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_00: What are you not talking about?
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I can't I just don't get it.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_00: And so one thing that really appreciate about the gay community is you know, we are known to be sexual, but it's because we don't shame people for having sex.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_00: It is a natural thing.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, safe with it.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_00: We I I I say we, but I'm sure there are plenty of cases where you know there are bad gay people too, right?
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_03: Like I Oh yeah, for sure.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_00: But people want to think that if like my attacker, he is a straight man.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_00: He didn't rape me because of attraction, he raped me because that dominance and power.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_03: Mm-hmm.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's a power thing.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's not an attraction thing.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_00: Like he had a girlfriend, had a baby mama, has three kids, you know, and he identifies as heterosexual.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_00: But him raping did not make him gay.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_00: But of course, when we hear about a man doing something to a man, they're gay.
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's the gay people.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_00: That's not what rape is.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_00: That's I mean, that that's not their reasoning behind it.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_00: Now, I do think that you know, there there's generations of being told that being gay is wrong and religion is better and great, and so there are people that have hid in the closet and hid behind their Bible and and what society teaches them to where they probably do have some build-up aggression and they act out on it in a very dangerous way.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_00: And that's not justifying it, but if we would stop being so judgmental about who the fuck is in my bed, yeah, I think a little maybe not a drastic amount of change would happen in the world, but I think a lot would a lot of change could happen and a lot of good change.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and I feel like in America we sexualize everything.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_02: We sexualize everything, like, okay, so you know, you see a pair of titties on TV and it's like cover your eyes, like, oh my god, you can't see that.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_02: And it's like, it's literally just balls of fat on a woman's on a woman's chest that feed babies.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_02: Because we've also seen this as far as breasts, like if a woman's breastfeeding, I know you've had to see it like, oh my god, you shouldn't be doing that.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_02: Like out in public, it's like I don't want to have to explain that to my kid.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_02: What that it's a natural thing that you're feeding a child and that is what they were made for.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I don't want to explain things to my children, piss me off.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_00: Like, why do you not want to have discussions with your child about things that happen in real life?
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_00: If you see me and my husband walking lovingly, holding hands, and grocery shopping and doing whatever, and you don't want to talk to your kids about how love is love, shame on you.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_00: That just shows how you're that shows how you're trying, you're you're hiding behind your ignorance or your religion or your fears or who maybe you are closeted that you don't want to talk to your child about.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_00: Well, not talking to your children about it is gonna make them have a curiosity.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_00: And what happens when a child has a curious mind about something, they do it behind your back.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_00: I never I never had to sink out of my window.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_00: When I'm growing up as a kid, I never had to sink out of my window.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_00: I never not I didn't have I didn't get drunk my first time until I was 22.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_00: Because if I if I wanted to try something, like I wanted to try a cigarette and I went to my parents, they set me down and I had a cigarette and I hated it.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_00: I exactly sink out of the window, out of my bedroom window.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_00: If I wanted to go do something, I was able to go do it with my parents' permission.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_00: But their thing is, is you do have a curfew, and if you do stay out this late, you're still going to school tomorrow.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_00: You still have chores and things to do tomorrow and and their repercussions if that does not happen.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_00: Not one time I suck out of my window.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't have to.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_02: Because you had that relationship with your parents to where they learned to trust you and make some of your own decisions, but they also let you explore safely, right?
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_02: Which I think is the biggest key because there's so many parents that want to control what their child does because I do believe that they want to protect them, but you're not protecting them in the right way.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_02: And another thing like that you touched on, now this pisses a lot of people off whenever it comes to gay marriage, and it absolutely destroys them, especially whenever they see a gay couple and they don't want to explain it to their child.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_02: I look at them and I've said it to my own parents that I'm like, so you believe that a relationship is only sexual and in the bedroom.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_02: That's what I'm hearing.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_02: Because a relationship is so much more than that.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_02: So it's like they hate it whenever I point out that you're even sexualizing relationships.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_02: Like you are putting that at the top of relationships, that it's only about sex and procreation when it's commitment and loyalty and everything else in between.
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_02: They don't like that.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_02: So it's like, so you're the pervert.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_00: That's the word I was about to use.
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_00: It gets to be a perversion, you know.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_00: It's so funny to me.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_00: Like, people don't realize that the town that I live in is as big as it is.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_00: Like I live in Knoxville, Tennessee, and college campus or college town.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_00: And of course, I'm very blue in a very red state, but there's more diversity here than people realize, especially the area that I live in.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_00: Like when you get close to like the college campus area and like the downtown area where there's a lot of like local restaurants and stuff, very like you can walk through Market Square, which is one of my favorite places, and excuse me, and you can see two guys with two girls holding hands.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_00: And for the most part, no one pays attention or cares.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_00: But I have seen where someone would like look at them and kind of raise, like if two men were walking by holding hands, there was always gonna be someone looking at them and raising their eyebrow and rolling their eye.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_00: Now, if you don't like it, fine.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um, they didn't cause a huge scene about it.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, they rolled their eyes, fine.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_00: I see things I don't like, like I saw someone not tip their server, and I rolled my eyes, and then I went and put$5 on that table for the server, you know.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_00: So, but I didn't say anything to that person.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_00: So fine.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_00: If you if that if this person that rolled their eyes and raised their eyebrow made a scene, that would be different, and where a lot of people there would step in and be like, the fuck.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_00: But what I found very interesting is the person that rolled their eyes was sitting across from their partner, their spouse.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_00: They didn't talk the whole dinner.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_00: Like that says a lot, you know, and and so like when you start like people watching, the ones that roll their eyes, they're so lonely because their spouse is not talking to them.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_00: You're not seeing someone that is like happy and loving and skipping along market square with their opposite sex partner and then screeching breaks and and smoke because two other guys are holding hands.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_00: Those people are not even looking at the two guys holding the hands because they're happy in their own life.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_00: The ones that are rolling their eyes are the ones that have set up across from the same person for 30 years and haven't spoken in 10.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_00: And they're going to bed every night with a stranger.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_00: You're going to bed with someone that you don't even know anymore.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_02: That's exactly it.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_02: And you're not even showing your partner affection.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_02: Like, you know, you have to have that mental connection, and you need to be able to mentally stimulate each other.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_02: So that says a lot.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_02: Like you're not even talking to your partner anymore.
• 31:38
  unknown: Yeah.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_02: You're literally using them as an object, and it's all because you don't want to be alone.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_02: You're trying to fit into the cookie cutter mold that you've been told all these years.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_00: And so these are the same people that are like, how will I ever explain this to my children?
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_00: Well, what you're showing your children is that your home is already broken.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_00: Your home is surviving-ish.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_00: Your home is held together with duct tape and a prayer, and it's become just a routine and a cycle.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_00: So you're telling your daughter that she's to stay in this marriage when her husband doesn't fuck her anymore or love her anymore.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_00: Or you're telling your son how to treat a woman or how a woman is allowed to treat a man because it can be flipped.
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_00: So you don't want to explain that to your child and what you're teaching to your child, but you want to throw a fit over trying to explain what love and respect and caring for someone is when it goes on and happy.
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_02: Because like my son asks things all the time.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_02: Because he's in this phase to where he's in school, and all of his friends like their parents live together.
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_02: And it's like I left a long time ago, and he is just like, Well, can't we just and I'm like, okay, and I was like, let's walk through this.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_02: Sometimes some people meet and they confuse love with friendship, and things happen.
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_02: It's like I'm it's not that I don't care.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, but would you really want to be in a house where your mom and dad are fighting all the time and ignoring each other?
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_02: And and he's like, no.
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, sometimes you can meet somebody, have a form of love for them, and still wish them the best and not be together.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_02: Because now he's seen that cookie cutter mold as well.
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, Aren't you just happy with both of us separately?
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_02: And he's like, Yeah.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, but would you be miserable like if we were in the same house and we ignore each other and we're always arguing?
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_02: He's like, No.
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, Yeah, your life would be miserable.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_02: And it's like he's six, so it's like I broke it down as much as possible.
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you can still child proof, you know, these conversations, and and they can be told what is appropriate for them to know.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you don't have to go into the whole like two men holding hands because, you know, and what God says.
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_00: You don't have to go into all that.
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_00: You don't have to go into the reasons why you and your partner decided to separate, which caused your son to now have two different homes and one day maybe four parents, you know.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you don't go into all of the the fighting, if there was any or any of the destruction, it's just that here we are right now, and your life is so much better, and so is mine, and I'm able to be a better mom for you because uh of I'm happy now, and that does not mean your dad is a bad person, you know.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_00: It's just that was right for me.
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_00: And and here's the thing I'm not a parent, so I have a hard time speaking about children, but then I have a lot of children in my life.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_00: I have godchildren and nieces and nephews, and and they have the questions.
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_00: What you need to be as a parent is the place where they're not afraid to ask you the question.
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_00: Because the question is going to be there about two guys because they're gonna they're gonna sit in TV, they're gonna have someone at school, they may have that has parents that are are same sex, they may have a curiosity themselves because most people do, even if it is just a I think he's kind of cute kind of thing or whatever, you know.
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_00: We have those curiosities even in pubescent years, they have the questions.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_01: They do.
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_02: You just need to be the safe place for them to come get the fucking answers, exactly, and they need to see that it's completely normal.
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_02: Like we went to a festival on Friday, and we went into this little bakery, it was amazing, and you know, it was a gay guy and his husband who own it, and my son absolutely loved them, yeah, and it's like you know, like they even had like a little flash tattoo in the bakery, and it's like so.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_02: I'm getting my flash tattoo, and then he's sitting down with the owner and his husband, and he's showing them this book, and they're both reading to him, and I'm like, This is what people are sexualizing, right?
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_00: Like what they're saying is getting us to hell, yeah.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_00: Listen, if hell is still people like me, it can't be that bad of a place, you know.
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_02: It's not, and then like after, like, he's showing us where he bakes everything and where he sells everything.
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_00: I love that, yeah.
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_02: And then he's like, Oh, I want to come back all the time, and he's like, You're hired as a greeter, and he was like, Will you teach me how to bake?
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_02: And he was like, Yeah.
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, This is this is the agenda that people are like, Oh, your children are in danger.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, your son's in a bakery one day, and he learned from a very nice person how to exactly, and now that's all he talks about is Evan is my best friend.
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_03: I have a job now.
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, well, you know what?
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_00: This podcast is over.
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_00: You saw the gay agenda.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_00: That's it, that's all we got for the day.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_00: Gosh, I just I I can't wrap my mind around things, and the I don't know what date this episode will be released because we're not even released the podcast yet.
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_00: And um, but uh at the time of recording it is September 28th, and I think it was September 24th, is when the rapture was supposed to come.
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_00: And something about I think Charlie Kirk and his murder, which was awful, you know, regardless of if I didn't do with him or not.
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_00: That is it is awful.
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_00: I would never want that on anyone.
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_00: The reason I vote, and the the reason in the way that I vote is for him to be able to have his freedom of speech because it was exactly whether I did or not, and I do not think that he should have been shot and killed and and the world to even witness.
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_00: I I hate that it happened to him, but then you gotta think of like the trickle effect of how that's gonna traumatize the people that were also there.
• 37:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, and of course his family, and so it was completely uncalled for, but I didn't mean to get on that tangent.
• 37:52
  SPEAKER_00: I just wanted to make sure that I said that as a reminder because I know that I come at things pretty harsh, yeah, and uh when it comes to the things that he preached on and believed in.
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_00: So I just wanted to preface with no matter what, should not have happened.
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_00: But there was a part of me that was like if the rapture does happen and people like me are the ones that get left behind, and a certain group of people that are everything but godly are the ones leaving, I kinda want the rapture to happen.
• 38:32
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, exactly.
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_03: And you know what?
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_02: That is not the first rapture I've lived through because like I've talked about this with other friends too.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_02: I remember when I was younger and it was the Y2K.
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_02: I shit you not when I tell you we went to the church when the rapture was supposed to happen, and we sat there, we had a little party, we had to watch the whole Left Behind series.
• 38:55
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know if you've ever seen it.
• 38:56
  SPEAKER_00: Uh-huh.
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_02: Oh my goodness.
• 38:59
  SPEAKER_02: Worst Y2K party ever.
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my gosh.
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_00: So I uh that there's a bit of an age difference, and so the first one I remember was 1999, the ball dropping into 2000.
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, I remember that one too.
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_00: Uh-huh.
• 39:15
  SPEAKER_00: And but yeah, the there's so many.
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_00: And then and then, of course, the goalpost gets moved.
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_00: And what they don't remember and or seem to forget about is didn't the Bible say, and granted, I'm atheists, like I but I just know a little bit of the Bible, but didn't the Bible say that no one's ever gonna know the day?
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_00: And anyway that the like Christian children would kind of get keep the world here another day is before they would go to bed, they'd be like, Well, the world might end tomorrow, so that way it can't end tomorrow because they've guessed it and God says they can't, and it gives them another day to figure out how to get their God to love them.
• 39:51
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and not only that, but I don't think that Christians realize that they were talking about the fall of Jerusalem, the end of times for that era, because even if you look in other religions, there's end of times for them like Ragnarok and so on and so forth.
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_02: It's the end of an era, it's the end of times for that thing or that prophet or that government system that a lot of people don't comprehend.
• 40:18
  SPEAKER_02: It's like it's it's not meant for you.
• 40:21
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 40:21
  SPEAKER_02: It's just, you know, you're going to go through so many different, let's put it, end times.
• 40:27
  SPEAKER_02: You're going to go through different phases of it.
• 40:29
  SPEAKER_02: And it's just the turn of an era, and the world is going to change and shift as you knew it.
• 40:36
  SPEAKER_00: And we have found a way, which I think that religion has always been.
• 40:46
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 40:48
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, I'll say what I'm gonna say, and then you can help help me dissect it and correct it in any way because you've been through more religious stuff than I have.
• 40:55
  SPEAKER_00: But I feel like now and for the longest time, and potentially always, has been more of a fear factor, of you know, a fear tactic and a form of control.
• 41:07
  SPEAKER_00: It's never been about really saving someone's soul.
• 41:11
  SPEAKER_00: It's about me taking your soul to corrupt you to do whatever it is, especially if you're a woman, especially if you're a minority, especially if I'm the one that gets the control.
• 41:24
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, for sure.
• 41:25
  unknown: Okay, okay.
• 41:26
  SPEAKER_02: And that's all this religion is, and that's why they preach so much about sin, hellfire, and the end times.
• 41:33
  SPEAKER_02: They want you to believe it's real.
• 41:35
  SPEAKER_02: There are even some religions that'll tell you that you're not allowed to read the Bible without your pastor or like, you know, somebody there.
• 41:45
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, they don't want you to understand it, and they will encourage you not to read the book of Revelation.
• 41:52
  SPEAKER_02: It's like, I've read it from cover to cover several different times.
• 41:56
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I can't tell you how many times.
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_02: But it's like the more you'd read through it, and this is why they don't want you to, the more you read through it, the more it contradicts itself.
• 42:06
  SPEAKER_00: The more questions you're gonna have.
• 42:08
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's why I would think that that's why they'd want you to read it with the preacher.
• 42:11
  SPEAKER_00: So that way the preacher could give you that, well, this is where you just have faith, and they give you some like toxic answer of yeah, that's one of those political non-answers.
• 42:23
  SPEAKER_02: I believe that the government, even though there's separation of church and state, the government and the church work hand in hand.
• 42:29
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah.
• 42:30
  SPEAKER_02: Even even though there's the separation, it's really not separated, and it's controlled the masses.
• 42:36
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I was gonna say you say that that there's separation.
• 42:39
  SPEAKER_00: I think that they tell us that, but there's absolutely no the churches, uh which is like the richest scam and and business in the world, and that you have to pay a tax.
• 42:54
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, they don't have to pay tax at all.
• 42:57
  SPEAKER_02: And it's like, so you're getting all this money tax-free, you're being able to do whatever.
• 43:02
  SPEAKER_02: You also don't have state inspections like any other business, because technically church is a business, right?
• 43:09
  SPEAKER_02: It's a business, yeah.
• 43:11
  SPEAKER_00: It's almost that you shouldn't be allowed to go until you're 18.
• 43:18
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 43:18
  SPEAKER_02: It's like I don't want my son in church up until he can think for himself, and like I've had my parents try to like force the Bible on my kid, and it's like, no, because you didn't meet my kid up until he was six months old, and it's like you know that I can leave, go ghost, and you won't see either of us again.
• 43:37
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and at the end of the day, it's not because I don't want them around, it's like you need to learn boundaries, you can't push your beliefs onto others because look what you did to me, and look what happens because you didn't think for yourself.
• 43:52
  SPEAKER_02: And like kids need to learn to think for themselves.
• 43:55
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm glad that's it.
• 43:57
  SPEAKER_02: It is a fear tactic, and it makes me.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_02: Want to question like Christians, like why do you believe?
• 44:03
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, well, he saved me from this, he saved me from that.
• 44:06
  SPEAKER_02: Are you sure you didn't save yourself from it?
• 44:09
  SPEAKER_02: You know, type of thing.
• 44:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I know that you you may have heard me say this before because I know that we do a lot of TikTok lives, and I'm sure some of the listeners have heard me say this too.
• 44:23
  SPEAKER_00: But I used to get, and I still do, get so pissed off when someone hears about my attempted murder and they want to say, But look how strong you are now.
• 44:32
  SPEAKER_00: Look what God did.
• 44:34
  SPEAKER_00: God left you here for a reason.
• 44:35
  SPEAKER_00: God did this.
• 44:36
  SPEAKER_00: Nope, that was already strong.
• 44:39
  SPEAKER_00: That is why I'm here today.
• 44:40
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
• 44:42
  SPEAKER_00: Because I was already strong.
• 44:43
  SPEAKER_00: And I will give you, I learned a lot and I'm stronger, but I was not some weak little duckling and uh until the day that God came into my life after he allowed someone to open the door and rape me and murder me and attempt to murder me.
• 44:57
  SPEAKER_00: Because where were you then, dude?
• 44:59
  SPEAKER_02: If they think about it, they want to say that God is all powerful.
• 45:03
  SPEAKER_02: Well, then God caused that if you want to play that number.
• 45:06
  SPEAKER_02: So why would God go ahead, cause it to happen, and then turn around and be like, oh no, I changed my mind.
• 45:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's a contradiction, and it's right out of the narcissistic playbook.
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I want to create turmoil into your life, and then I'm gonna come in and make it better.
• 45:27
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna create a problem, and then I'm gonna come in and be the band-aid and the cure of that problem.
• 45:33
  SPEAKER_00: Well, you know what?
• 45:34
  SPEAKER_00: Don't create it, and I will love you.
• 45:36
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly, and that's what abusers do because that's how I view their God, is an abuser, because it's like, oh, you're gaining trust, and then you do something horrible, and then you make it better.
• 45:49
  SPEAKER_02: But another thing I want to bring up because Christians are always into this.
• 45:53
  SPEAKER_02: I I like to also bring real life into it.
• 45:56
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, how do you determine that somebody's telling the truth?
• 46:00
  SPEAKER_02: Well, you have to look at both sides, keep this inside, you have to hear both sides, and then look at the evidence and then make your decision.
• 46:11
  SPEAKER_02: I want to know how many Christians sat there and heard Satan's side.
• 46:16
  SPEAKER_02: Because even if you go through the Bible and you haven't heard Satan's side, so you're in the Garden of Eden, you have these people walking around naked, they don't even realize that they're naked.
• 46:27
  SPEAKER_02: They're told not to eat a piece of fruit.
• 46:30
  SPEAKER_02: Or fruit is so many different things, it could even be sex because it's like a mystery, there's something forbidden.
• 46:37
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 46:38
  SPEAKER_02: And then it's not up until after the tree of life they realize that they're naked.
• 46:42
  SPEAKER_02: Then they're making clothes, and God gets upset over it.
• 46:46
  SPEAKER_02: They didn't die the way God said that they would.
• 46:50
  SPEAKER_02: Their eyes were opened to their nakedness.
• 46:54
  SPEAKER_02: It just sounds creepy.
• 46:55
  SPEAKER_02: Like it makes me think of like, imagine like being in the hospital because you have amnesia and you have like this weird doctor that abducts you and puts you in his basement and you're naked and you don't know any better, and you think that's life.
• 47:09
  SPEAKER_02: It's like that's kind of creepy that you want to keep somebody naked.
• 47:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I have I have so many things to say about that.
• 47:17
  SPEAKER_00: Like, one of the things I've said quite often is I almost feel like that's how women became quote unquote less than is that Eve didn't eat the forbidden fruit.
• 47:30
  SPEAKER_00: I think some people say it's an apple, some people whatever, whatever it is in your mind, Eve didn't eat the for forbidden fruit or bring it to Adam.
• 47:39
  SPEAKER_00: I think Adam did it, and and then was like, oh, let's blame Eve.
• 47:45
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly, because that's what happens, especially in religion.
• 47:48
  SPEAKER_02: The woman the woman is always blamed.
• 47:51
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 47:51
  SPEAKER_02: And it always talks about how the man is the head of the household.
• 47:54
  SPEAKER_02: And I always like to piss people off and be like, yeah, but we're the women and we're the neck, and we can turn that head any way we want.
• 48:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, ma'am.
• 48:02
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 48:03
  SPEAKER_02: So it's like you're walking down the aisle to go get married.
• 48:07
  SPEAKER_02: You see the aisle, and then you see him.
• 48:10
  SPEAKER_02: I'll alter him.
• 48:12
  SPEAKER_00: Uh-huh.
• 48:13
  SPEAKER_00: That is amazing.
• 48:14
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 48:16
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
• 48:17
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 48:18
  SPEAKER_02: I think that they want women down, especially in religion, because they don't realize the power that women have.
• 48:25
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, they realize the power, and that's why they want to suppress it.
• 48:31
  SPEAKER_00: They know the power.
• 48:33
  SPEAKER_02: I should more say some women don't realize it, especially the women in these cults.
• 48:37
  SPEAKER_02: Sure.
• 48:37
  SPEAKER_02: They really they need to wake up to it.
• 48:40
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, now that I can give you.
• 48:42
  SPEAKER_00: That I can give you.
• 48:44
  SPEAKER_00: I think generations are changing.
• 48:48
  SPEAKER_00: I almost wish we lived in a place where we could try this new administration that we're in with Donald Trump and his administration for four years and then go back and do it with Kamala.
• 49:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 49:04
  SPEAKER_00: And and see uh what the difference would be.
• 49:08
  SPEAKER_00: The fact that people would vote for him over her because she's a woman and a woman of color, when I'm sorry, but when you get a woman of color, she's been through it.
• 49:20
  SPEAKER_00: This would be she would clean house.
• 49:24
  SPEAKER_01: She would.
• 49:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 49:26
  SPEAKER_00: I miss her.
• 49:28
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, me too.
• 49:30
  SPEAKER_01: Just I can't wait for this four years to be over.
• 49:34
  SPEAKER_01: I can't.
• 49:35
  SPEAKER_00: Oh man, me too.
• 49:37
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my gosh, I've really enjoyed this conversation.
• 49:39
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like I'm gonna have you back a hundred times.
• 49:42
  SPEAKER_00: And and you know, we uh you've been a guest on Unholier, and just a reminder, show notes, uh, your link will be in the show notes.
• 49:50
  SPEAKER_00: And then uh you've been on TikTok live with us some too.
• 49:53
  SPEAKER_00: So if you all are not following us on TikTok, please do.
• 49:57
  SPEAKER_00: If you're not following Unholier, please do.
• 50:00
  SPEAKER_00: And I have a rapid fire question for you just to bring it back to a fun kind of ending.
• 50:07
  SPEAKER_00: So the question I want to ask you is would you change what happened to you if you could?
• 50:16
  SPEAKER_02: I probably would.
• 50:18
  SPEAKER_02: It's a mix of yes and no.
• 50:20
  SPEAKER_02: There's certain things I would change because I feel like I wouldn't be as held back in life.
• 50:27
  SPEAKER_02: You know, like there's times like I've I won't go outside.
• 50:31
  SPEAKER_02: I'll stay, I'll go to work, I'll come home, I'll stay inside.
• 50:34
  SPEAKER_02: I don't want anything to do with socials, like social interaction in person.
• 50:39
  SPEAKER_02: I have to force myself for that.
• 50:42
  SPEAKER_02: I feel like I would have better relationships and better trust in people instead of thinking like not everybody's out to get me, you know, and I probably wouldn't view myself as a sexual object because you know, like that type of trauma can sometimes I go both ways.
• 51:01
  SPEAKER_02: Either I'll be hypersexual or I don't want it at all, you know, and like after you go through something like that, like there's a high stake with like whenever it comes to sex and intimacy.
• 51:12
  SPEAKER_02: So it's like I I think there's a few things I would change, you know.
• 51:17
  SPEAKER_00: I love that, and I and I respect that.
• 51:19
  SPEAKER_00: Here's my answer to that is I've had more good from the aftermath come out than bad.
• 51:31
  SPEAKER_00: I've learned so many lessons.
• 51:33
  SPEAKER_00: I have a new career path and I'm happy with you know, creating this podcast and being a part of others.
• 51:38
  SPEAKER_00: Everyone in my life now would not be in my life now had it not been for that event.
• 51:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um I don't know that I would change anything about what happened to me.
• 51:50
  SPEAKER_00: I just want to make sure that I'm part of the change to prevent it from happening to others.
• 51:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 51:56
  SPEAKER_00: That's what is extremely important to me.
• 51:59
  SPEAKER_00: And so when when I meet people like you who will laugh when it's appropriate at your own journey and cry when it's appropriate at your own journey and sharing your story and still doing it respectful to yourself and and to some others that may play a role in that.
• 52:20
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm not saying to the to the complete bad guys, but you know, there are some people that has played a role in our story that maybe led us up to the the big T, you know, but that wasn't necessarily their fault kind of thing.
• 52:33
  SPEAKER_00: And and I think that we're good at placing that.
• 52:36
  SPEAKER_00: And I you're you're you're being part of the change, and I think that is amazing.
• 52:42
  SPEAKER_00: And I just adore you and our friendship, and I want to have you back.
• 52:47
  SPEAKER_02: Let's let's do that.
• 52:49
  SPEAKER_02: We could even create our own podcast if you want.
• 52:52
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not mad at the idea.
• 52:53
  SPEAKER_00: You know me, I've got 10 of them floating around out there somewhere.
• 52:56
  SPEAKER_02: I am all for it.
• 52:58
  SPEAKER_02: I am all for it.
• 53:00
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, but like you said, like my experience, it's brought understanding, it's made me want to advocate for others, you know, it's it's made me want to do this change, so it's like it's a good and bad, you know, it's a mix, and some days it's like I just wish that I could just be normal.
• 53:15
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, but nobody is ever normal.
• 53:18
  SPEAKER_02: Because another thing, and I'll play devil's advocate here.
• 53:22
  SPEAKER_02: If that trauma didn't happen to me, what other type of trauma would have happened?
• 53:28
  SPEAKER_00: And it's just like plain I know, and that's why we get into those like double-edged swords, right?
• 53:34
  SPEAKER_00: Because that means it's almost a trauma response for us to know that we have to have some other big T because somehow we're not deserving to just have a cool, calm, collective life, you know.
• 53:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and but then we're also realists at knowing that we all have our big T's, just your T is gonna be different than mine.
• 53:55
  SPEAKER_00: My T was not greater than less than yours, and yours isn't greater than or less than mine.
• 53:59
  SPEAKER_00: What was the big thing for me is my big thing.
• 54:02
  SPEAKER_00: I can't compare yours or the person over here who broke a fingernail.
• 54:06
  SPEAKER_00: If that's their big T, that's their big T.
• 54:10
  SPEAKER_00: I'm jealous.
• 54:11
  SPEAKER_00: Although breaking fingernails, I I got like a little quick in one the other day, and it was painful.
• 54:16
  SPEAKER_00: So I don't know.
• 54:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I don't know if I would want that.
• 54:18
  SPEAKER_00: That does sound like a big terrible tea.
• 54:20
  SPEAKER_02: So I mean, I've I've had fake nails before, and there's times to where I will get so sick of them, I will rip them off myself.
• 54:28
  SPEAKER_02: So maybe I'm just as sensitized towards pain.
• 54:31
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
• 54:32
  SPEAKER_00: I was gonna say, maybe that's what our big T taught us, is because people are like, David, you're a lot stronger than you look, like physically, you know.
• 54:38
  SPEAKER_00: Like the dresser moved, I will move that damn dresser, you know.
• 54:42
  SPEAKER_01: Oh yeah.
• 54:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um and and that there's just so many things that will come up, they're like, huh, I never would have suspect that from you or expect that to happen with you.
• 54:51
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, it's what I learned, it's a strength that I developed because of.
• 54:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 54:56
  SPEAKER_00: So I was able to get through something that would be considered a big T for someone that it was a small T for me because of what I had already been through.
• 55:05
  SPEAKER_00: But that's only me comparing it to my T's, not anyone else's T's.
• 55:09
  SPEAKER_00: I think that is what is so important.
• 55:10
  SPEAKER_00: I can't compare, you know, like I had people when I first started doing survivor stories, I had people say, Well, I feel bad coming and being a guest on your show because someone raped and attempted to murder you.
• 55:20
  SPEAKER_00: That did not happen to me.
• 55:22
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what happened to me is nowhere near what happened to you, but yes, it is.
• 55:27
  SPEAKER_00: It is your big trauma that you're surviving.
• 55:30
  SPEAKER_00: You cannot minimize yours because of mine.
• 55:34
  SPEAKER_02: That and people need to realize trauma is not a competition, it's not, and you can't compare it because, like, we're going to go through our own bullshit.
• 55:45
  SPEAKER_02: And like I said, I would be afraid to change it.
• 55:49
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I wish it never happens, but in my mind, I know that everybody is going to face their own trauma.
• 55:55
  SPEAKER_02: So it's like, then if that didn't happen, what's the other trauma going to be?
• 56:00
  SPEAKER_02: Is it going to be more or is it going to be less?
• 56:03
  SPEAKER_02: You said it earlier yourself.
• 56:05
  SPEAKER_02: It's a double-edged sword because something happens to everybody and it's just as valid because it happened to you.
• 56:12
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 56:13
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 56:14
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I think that is a place for us to end with this obviously going to be an ongoing conversation.
• 56:20
  SPEAKER_00: Do you have places like social medias that you like people to find you and follow you on?
• 56:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um, are you active on anything like that?
• 56:27
  SPEAKER_02: I'm on Facebook and Instagram under Astaria Grace.
• 56:31
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I do have a cosplay account.
• 56:33
  SPEAKER_02: Um, it's on TikTok.
• 56:35
  SPEAKER_02: Again, it's just cosplay, but sometimes people find me there.
• 56:38
  SPEAKER_02: It's a lot of mass talk, but that's call sign biohazard.
• 56:41
  SPEAKER_02: That's where I get to be goofy and stuff and just do my own bullshit.
• 56:47
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, either one.
• 56:49
  SPEAKER_00: Heck yeah, I love that.