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GT and the Quest to Unravel Science's Most Perplexing Myths · In Moderation

• 0:18
  Speaker 1: Now, before we start this episode of In Moderation hey you, you, yeah, you.
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: You're listening right now.
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: I just want you to know you're my favorite.
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: Don't tell any of the other listeners.
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: Welcome back to In Moderation.
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: And we're here today with a very sleepy Liam.
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: Oh boy, howdy, that is very much the case.
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: Had to force him to get out of Bedway too early.
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: Poor Liam Damn.
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: And our special guest today is GT.
• 0:48
  Speaker 3: Yep, hi, I run a Bear Bait official on TikTok and YouTube.
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: So tell us all about yourself, because, as it's well known, we suck at telling people about people.
• 0:58
  Speaker 3: Yeah, sure, I'm a molecular biologist and I made an account in part because I really just want to make science accessible.
• 1:06
  Speaker 3: There's a lot of really complicated topics that people don't know how to learn about because they never learn to read scientific articles.
• 1:13
  Speaker 3: So I just like to cover all sorts of news topics, especially controversial ones, and just explain what's actually going on.
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: That's actually something we hear a lot is people asking how do we find science to read?
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: How do you read science, all of those types of things, how read?
• 1:32
  Speaker 3: science.
• 1:32
  Speaker 3: I can answer that.
• 1:34
  Speaker 3: So we don't really learn to read scientific articles in high school, and not even in undergrad, unless you're pursuing a science degree.
• 1:43
  Speaker 3: I would recommend starting on Wikipedia.
• 1:45
  Speaker 3: The people who actually write those articles, like me, are scientists, and it's just a great way to get familiar with the kinds of topics, how they're written.
• 1:53
  Speaker 3: There's usually an abstract at the beginning which is like a paragraph that explains all of it, and then, once you get more familiar with those topics, just go to the citations at the bottom and start clicking on those.
• 2:02
  Speaker 3: It's going to take practice, but I promise the longer you spend reading it, the easier it gets.
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: You know, funny enough, that's actually how I got started way back in the day, way back in the early days of the internet, because I'm old as fuck.
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: I would go around reading with the PDF articles and I would link, jump from one to the other, to the other, to the other, and I'd look down at the citations and I'd look through those and I'd just read everything, while everybody else is sitting there watching cat videos, they're sending me cat videos and I'm like.
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: They're like Rob watch this cat video and I'm like but I'm reading Wikipedia.
• 2:38
  Speaker 3: Yeah, in grad school I just started writing them.
• 2:40
  Speaker 3: If I wanted to learn a new topic, I would just hop over to Wikipedia and start a new page.
• 2:43
  Speaker 3: Usually I mean, there weren't as many esoteric topics in there like a decade ago I still correct them all the time.
• 2:52
  Speaker 3: It is a self-correcting system.
• 2:53
  Speaker 3: I write pages and then people will come in and say, well, that's not really how it is, and then we have an argument about it.
• 2:59
  Speaker 3: But you may not be able to use it as a primary source.
• 3:02
  Speaker 3: But if you go down to the citations, those are primary sources.
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: Do people argue on the internet?
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: How often does that happen?
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: Once in a while.
• 3:08
  Speaker 3: Never, never happens we don't have arguments on the internet.
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: Finding Wikipedia and then the little things and then the citation at the bottom.
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: It was the greatest thing ever when I was in high school.
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: That was the greatest thing, because you just write whatever it says in the Wikipedia page and they're like oh yeah, just copy paste that over.
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: It's like yes, I'm basically a scientist.
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: Now I don't know if you know this, but check out my term paper.
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: I just wrote it.
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: Well, I heard that you are the certifying body for rocket scientists, scientists.
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: No, no rocket science.
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: I am a rocket science scientist.
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: It is a sub-scientist.
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: It's very complex.
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: It would talk way too long to explain it, but it's fancy.
• 3:51
  Speaker 3: That's all you really need to know Are you a rocket scientist?
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: No, just a rocket science scientist.
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: Again, it's too much to really get into and people really wouldn't understand.
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: I really don't want to hurt their brains by me talking about it.
• 4:06
  Speaker 3: You get to be a molecular biologist if you actually spend time in a lab.
• 4:11
  Speaker 3: Other than that, you're just a professor.
• 4:14
  Speaker 3: I will say that something people don't understand is that science is not monolithic.
• 4:20
  Speaker 3: In their field there's arguments all the time over everything.
• 4:23
  Speaker 3: That's one of the cool things science tries to correct itself.
• 4:27
  Speaker 2: Let me ask you something because I want you to try and get this across to people Whenever there's one person.
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: If people can find one person saying something they're like oh yeah, this is the way it is.
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: I don't know, dr Fung, I guess maybe one of these people that are just kind of the outliers.
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: Maybe we can just get across to people like, hey, just because one person in that field says that often it's just because they're not making enough money.
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: If they completely switch sides and say the opposite, they will make a lot more money than if they're saying the same thing that 10,000 other people in their field are saying.
• 5:05
  Speaker 3: I'm not going to name names, but there have been a few scientists who have been paid by outside forces maybe a corporation to say something Like sugar doesn't cause cavities and they were promoted Interesting.
• 5:17
  Speaker 3: But yeah, if you've come up with an idea that's an outlier, you then have to prove it.
• 5:23
  Speaker 3: You have to do an experiment and show that it happened.
• 5:25
  Speaker 3: And then other scientists are going to go in and then repeat your experiment and see that it actually holds salt until it's been repeated by other labs and they say, hey, we got the exact same result.
• 5:35
  Speaker 3: It's not true.
• 5:36
  Speaker 3: A great example of that one is memories are inherited.
• 5:39
  Speaker 3: I know it sounds bizarre.
• 5:40
  Speaker 3: It did to everyone when the experiment was first done.
• 5:43
  Speaker 3: If you shock mice in the presence of a stimulus that's not otherwise unpleasant, like the smell of lavender or the color red, their offspring will be afraid of it for generations to come.
• 5:53
  Speaker 3: The first article said seven generations and everyone said no frickin way.
• 5:57
  Speaker 3: And it was repeated and other people found well, yeah, it worked for four generations or three generations.
• 6:01
  Speaker 3: So now that previously really weird claim has been proven.
• 6:07
  Speaker 3: Yeah, this phenomenon is good.
• 6:08
  Speaker 3: We don't know how, but we got to figure it out.
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: So the important note here is that my offspring will know to hate bananas.
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: I knew that the moment you said a word, the first word I was like this is going to banana direction and the banana direction is not what most people think it is.
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: That's a different thing.
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: But yeah, that's.
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I honestly did not know that.
• 6:31
  Speaker 2: I honestly didn't know that.
• 6:34
  Speaker 3: Really incredible.
• 6:35
  Speaker 3: We can't make a whole lot of claims about it, other than this phenomenon has been observed until we figure out the mechanism, because theories are great but mechanisms are golden.
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: So like yeah, and that's the thing is.
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: If you bring, if you say like, okay, this person is like an outlier, you know they'll say, but oh, other people have been right before.
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: And you're like, yeah, like, listen, I totally get that.
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: Like I think it's good to have other theories, but when just one and I'm just going off on tangents here already, but it's just so frustrating they're like oh yeah, you're just paid by like big pharma, big, whatever, big, big, big, your big, big page.
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: And then it's like you realize this one person that like you're citing they've been paid by like everybody, like the re, the, there's a good chance.
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: The reason they're saying what they're saying is because they're getting paid by corporations, by whatever, like that's much more lucrative, just crazy.
• 7:25
  Speaker 3: One of my grants is from Monsanto Bayer, and that means that there's a lot of stuff that I can't talk about in detail.
• 7:30
  Speaker 3: I hate it, and I wish that science was funded more by the government and not corporations, but here we are.
• 7:38
  Speaker 2: It doesn't matter.
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: No, no, no, no.
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: It doesn't matter if it's funded by the government.
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: That's even worse.
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: Somehow I don't.
• 7:44
  Speaker 2: It doesn't make any sense, but on social, media it's somehow worse because big government controls everything and it's less it's funded.
• 7:54
  Speaker 2: I don't even know what it has to be funded by.
• 7:55
  Speaker 2: It has to come out of thin air that has to be funded by my basement obviously.
• 8:01
  Speaker 3: I got the stack of money in my basement.
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: I'm just handing it out to whoever agrees with me.
• 8:07
  Speaker 3: I just wish the science was better funded, because it is so hard to get grants for anything, and that's why a lot of people like go to corporations Well, the government's not giving me money, so maybe Coca Cola will.
• 8:17
  Speaker 2: Absolutely.
• 8:18
  Speaker 3: It's not as bad as it used to be, like in the early days of nutrition, companies just told scientists what to say and gave them money for it.
• 8:27
  Speaker 3: We have a lot more ethics with it now, but there's still things I'm not allowed to talk about.
• 8:31
  Speaker 3: I mean, I don't really work with genetically modified crops.
• 8:35
  Speaker 3: I don't talk about them.
• 8:36
  Speaker 3: There's other programs that I didn't want to be a part of, which is like making suicide seeds seeds that once you grow them, they can't then have offspring, and those are given to foreign countries.
• 8:49
  Speaker 3: They end up dependent on something that can go away.
• 8:53
  Speaker 3: If there's ever a supply chain disruption, that one, I think, is borderline, truly evil.
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 9:00
  Speaker 3: I agree with that.
• 9:03
  Speaker 2: That's not how to joke I reckon alternative fertilizers.
• 9:07
  Speaker 3: I'm making better GMO bacteria to replace fertilizers which are hugely wasteful and detrimental to the environment.
• 9:14
  Speaker 3: I think that's not evil.
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: But going back to people not understanding the processes behind science, there's a lot of people who read the abstract and they read that one sentence at the bottom that gives a very vague conclusion that's more clickbait than anything else.
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: They don't understand the process of that science.
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: They don't understand the mechanism behind it.
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: They don't look at the materials or how they actually did this study or anything like that.
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: Do you have any advice for people in regards to looking at these studies?
• 10:23
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I do.
• 10:23
  Speaker 3: I had a previous title for an article that was like plant slaves of something, something bacteria.
• 10:30
  Speaker 3: The plants were essentially farming the bacteria and I came up with a silly headline.
• 10:35
  Speaker 3: I realized since then the silly headlines that we sometimes like to use can divert from what's actually happening.
• 10:42
  Speaker 3: The abstracts are great to be able to read.
• 10:46
  Speaker 3: That's a start, but it's better if you start to understand the methods.
• 10:53
  Speaker 3: Right after the abstract there's going to be the introduction that's going to give you the background on that.
• 10:58
  Speaker 3: It's not going to be super complicated.
• 10:59
  Speaker 3: I think that would go a long way to helping, something I do when I make my videos, especially if I'm talking about a topic that's outside of my field.
• 11:09
  Speaker 3: I'll contact the researchers directly and even send them my video and say hey, do you think this is a good description of what's actually happening?
• 11:16
  Speaker 3: Do you have any commentary?
• 11:16
  Speaker 3: Do you think something's missing?
• 11:18
  Speaker 3: I think for science presenters like myself, it's important to make sure that you're giving the best picture of what's actually going on for the average person.
• 11:27
  Speaker 3: Yeah, you just got to read.
• 11:28
  Speaker 3: Keep reading and it'll start to make more sense, and maybe talk to people who actually know the field and ask them if you have a good idea of what it's really saying.
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: I like that Reach out to the actual researchers.
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: A lot of people don't realize that these people love discussing science.
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: They absolutely love it, and if you want access to an article or a study that you don't have the subscription to the journal for, or whatever, you can email the people that were involved.
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: Most of the time they will happily send you the entire study, because they don't make any money off the journals.
• 12:05
  Speaker 3: There is a slightly controversial website that I'm not going to say I do or don't use SciHub F-T-I-H-U-B.
• 12:10
  Speaker 3: If there is a copy of your article anywhere on the internet, they will find it and you can read it.
• 12:16
  Speaker 3: It's a lot easier than going through university libraries and requesting stuff.
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: For legal reasons, I have to tell you that this podcast does not endorse you using SciHub, because you certainly wouldn't want free, unlimited access to all scientific stuff.
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: We wouldn't want you to have that wink.
• 12:41
  Speaker 3: Scientific stuff, that's another point of contention for me.
• 12:43
  Speaker 3: I think that if research is funded by public dollars, it should be public, like everyone should be able to read it.
• 12:49
  Speaker 3: It's just another barrier that makes science inaccessible and makes people decide that handwashing doesn't work, or vaccines don't work, or masks don't work.
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: I think that's great, but I think also almost no one's going to contact the researchers and look up.
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: Why don't you give people and this guy can help them up hierarchy?
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: of evidence.
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: Give them that, because that's really just where you need to start.
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: I think that's where you can see a lot of these fun people on the internet trying to convince you of something with some interesting research.
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: I'm basically playing Mad Libs with descriptions here, so you can move a little bit on that.
• 13:31
  Speaker 3: Hop over to Google Scholar, type in your topic, see what comes up.
• 13:35
  Speaker 3: Look for stuff that's been posted in high-quality journals like Cell Science is a great one.
• 13:44
  Speaker 3: They post all sorts of fields, but one journal article in a journal that's privately owned out of China.
• 13:50
  Speaker 3: That has 70 papers probably not the best one to go to.
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: But also I'm talking about what's the best form of evidence.
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: You got your case studies.
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: I'm certainly like, is that case studies at the bottom, and then you got your animal studies.
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: Are you telling me?
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: Paul's animal studies aren't the best source of information.
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: So you got your case studies at the bottom, then you got your animal studies and then, as you kind of go up, then you got your kind of traditional studies and at the very top you got your meta-analyses.
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: So meta-analyses are based studies of studies.
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: They take a bunch of studies together and they look for themes.
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: Now and it drives me kind of crazy, just when you cite a meta-analyses and someone comes back at you with, oh but what about this rat study?
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: So you're like, well one you know what's even a better tool.
• 14:45
  Speaker 3: Look for reviews.
• 14:46
  Speaker 3: These are articles that go over all of the current research in the field and they will talk about.
• 14:52
  Speaker 3: Well, there is this weird outlier.
• 14:54
  Speaker 3: We don't understand it.
• 14:55
  Speaker 3: This is why it's not important my own articles.
• 14:58
  Speaker 3: I can't tell you how many times I have to write, at least under these conditions, under this timeframe, like I don't know if it's going to hold true for every single soil type condition place like those are important words to kind of tune into, like just because one person found this really wacky result doesn't mean that it's going to hold true everywhere.
• 15:18
  Speaker 3: So it's best to pop over to review article and check out a lot of the research in the field.
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: But man, that wacky one wacky review will give you like a ton of headlines.
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: I still remember the farts curing cancer.
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: That was the greatest thing.
• 15:33
  Speaker 3: What.
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: There was a bunch of.
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: There was a ton of shit going around like all the media outlets brought it up.
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: It was farts cure cancer.
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: They didn't know that because, basically, yeah, there were some scientists studying some gases and their relationship to cancer and some of those gases were in farts and somehow, through a game of telephone, that got eventually transformed into smelling.
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: The farts can prevent or cure cancer.
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: And so much so that other media outlets had to put out statements.
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: They put out articles go, farts don't cure cancer.
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: There was multiple of those.
• 16:12
  Speaker 2: And still to this day, the people who ran the original study get calls from morning shows like beefcake and hot wing in the morning or wherever the fuck their names are.
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: Like, hey, can you talk about how farts cure cancer?
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: And they're like we've gone over this a thousand times they don't, but it doesn't matter.
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: As soon as that lead, that breakthrough, have that leak happens, it's over, it's.
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: It's it's because we just love it.
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: We love that fucking headline that says some crazy shit so much we really do Did you?
• 16:41
  Speaker 3: guys see the headline that said that scientists discover city light 70 million years or light years away.
• 16:48
  Speaker 3: And that was not what happened.
• 16:49
  Speaker 3: It's just the satellite telescope that could potentially see artificial light that far away.
• 16:53
  Speaker 3: And now everyone sending me messages like, did you hear they found artificial light in another galaxy, it's like, no, that's not what happened.
• 17:00
  Speaker 3: Please stop saying it.
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: That's great too.
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: Please the headlines yeah.
• 17:07
  Speaker 3: A more sinister example of that is bitter almonds.
• 17:10
  Speaker 3: I've been seeing that going around as a cure for cancer.
• 17:13
  Speaker 3: So bitter almonds have somewhat similar activity to chemotherapy.
• 17:16
  Speaker 3: It's not specific and it is poisonous.
• 17:20
  Speaker 3: It has arsenic in them.
• 17:21
  Speaker 3: They're the pits from the pits from things like peaches, stone fruit.
• 17:26
  Speaker 3: They look like almonds.
• 17:26
  Speaker 3: They're chock full of arsenic.
• 17:28
  Speaker 3: They are poisonous.
• 17:29
  Speaker 3: So I had a family friend who is going through cancer treatment and it is terminal so they didn't want to do chemo because he has tumors everywhere.
• 17:39
  Speaker 3: And he said well, yeah, he bought like a two pound bag of bitter almonds.
• 17:42
  Speaker 3: He's going to try.
• 17:43
  Speaker 3: Like please don't, you could end up killing yourself that way and there's better treatments out there than eating arsenic.
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: When has there ever been a single treatment better than eating arsenic?
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 17:57
  Speaker 3: That sounds a little fishy to me.
• 17:58
  Speaker 3: Yeah, these things are dangerous.
• 18:00
  Speaker 3: People die because they hear something stupid on the internet.
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: Oh, the alternative, then, cancer is like.
• 18:06
  Speaker 2: I think cancer treatments is one of the biggest ones of them, you know, like the alkaline diet or whatever it is Living water.
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: It stops feeding cancer.
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: I mean, there's a million and one things out there.
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: Just make up something that cures cancer and sell us a yeah if you want to go, Okay.
• 18:24
  Speaker 3: I actually have a great suggestion for people who have diseases that are not easily cured by conventional methods Check out clinical trials.
• 18:33
  Speaker 3: There is always a lot of clinical trials going on in every country in the world.
• 18:37
  Speaker 3: You can sort by your disease I think there's like clinical trialscom and then you can actually reach out to them and find out if there's a place or if there's a wait list.
• 18:47
  Speaker 3: I have a shattered l4, but I am too young to get stem cell treatment, but I am on a wait list for a clinical trial that is trying to repair these breaks with stem cells.
• 18:58
  Speaker 3: I have to be 34, though.
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: And if you're in Canada, check out be the cureca.
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: That will give you a list of all the clinical trials going on.
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: Man, I want to be in some clinical trials now.
• 19:09
  Speaker 3: Yeah, one of the things that I have been able to do for good with my TikTok is I get people reaching out to me who have obscure diseases, and I've actually managed to link people up to clinical trials at Mayo Clinic Nice.
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: It's pretty fucking neat.
• 19:22
  Speaker 2: I want to be in, I want to try.
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: I want to try something.
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: It sounds so cool and I don't want the disease part, though that part doesn't sound like it.
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: You just want to be in the trial.
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: I just want to be in the trial for the disease aspect.
• 19:37
  Speaker 3: I will plug another creator, megan.
• 19:40
  Speaker 3: She runs the page for Rafiki's rescue but she takes cats that have obscure diseases.
• 19:47
  Speaker 3: She had a cat with feline sarcoidosis and I managed to get her ahold of UC Davis who was willing to treat that cat.
• 19:56
  Speaker 3: Unfortunately the cat perished of the disease first and only case of sarcoidosis in a cat.
• 20:02
  Speaker 3: But having that relationship means that if another cat comes up with a really weird problem, then she already has contact with them.
• 20:09
  Speaker 3: It is helpful.
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: Nice.
• 20:13
  Speaker 3: Social media can be something for good.
• 20:15
  Speaker 3: It doesn't have to be for evil.
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: But the rest of the time it's for evil.
• 20:20
  Speaker 2: And yeah, that just goes back to the we love the outlandish crazy headlines.
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: Man, if you're like an expert in your field, I'm telling you, just forget the science aspect.
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: That's dumb.
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: Science can be manipulated.
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: Anybody inside they know.
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: If you, just if you change enough values, if you skew the numbers enough, you can make it say pretty much whatever you want to say.
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: I mean, look at the whole vaccines and autism thing, forget about it.
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: So if you it just just switch and you'll make so much money you'll be completely evil and everyone will hate you, but you'll be rich, so you know you guys want to hear about some cool research that came out of my lab about autism and gut microbiome.
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: Interesting.
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, that's cool.
• 21:03
  Speaker 3: There is no link.
• 21:04
  Speaker 3: Apparently, kids who have autism tend to eat limited diets and that changes their gut microbiome.
• 21:10
  Speaker 3: It is.
• 21:11
  Speaker 3: Makes sense Correlation, not a causation.
• 21:13
  Speaker 3: They actually took voles, which are social creatures, and gave them different diets with some of the microbes they found in autistic children's guts.
• 21:21
  Speaker 3: It made no difference whatsoever and when they actually looked at the literature it clicked that like, okay, these kids are eating really weird diets because they have sensory issues.
• 21:32
  Speaker 3: But that still ends up in the media and people are saying like feed your kid a raw diet to cure their autism or do at worst things like enema and switches.
• 21:42
  Speaker 3: Really upsetting to hear.
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, what is up with the enema things?
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: Why are we Okay guys?
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: Why are we obsessed with shoving things up our butt?
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: That doesn't go there.
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: Like I mean, if you go back to like Kellogg I think a lot of people have heard of Kellogg and like his whole like bland diet to stop kids from masturbating If you haven't heard that you're, the rest of your day will be just that.
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: Go look it up.
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: And like he believed in yogurt enemas.
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: Daily yogurt enemas is what he did.
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: Now he also lived at like 94.
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: So I'm just saying, like you know, I don't know.
• 22:16
  Speaker 3: But a great way to give yourself something like candy-o-sist in your intestines.
• 22:21
  Speaker 3: I don't recommend that.
• 22:22
  Speaker 3: What is it?
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: And is it just because, okay, we think like poop bad, we get rid of the poop with is the poop is the stuff we're getting rid of.
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: So if we flush that out like faster or better things will be better, Like I.
• 22:36
  Speaker 2: What is it about?
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: The enema makes people.
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: Well, it's not even just the enema Like.
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: There's also the people that are selling the detoxes and stuff that just make you shit your brains out.
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: Apparently, we just think pooping is the answer to everything.
• 22:52
  Speaker 3: You'll actually gain weight If you do that temporarily.
• 22:54
  Speaker 3: Your body will try to hold on to more water, so you'll end up with extra water weight for a couple days.
• 22:59
  Speaker 2: You know what I think it is.
• 23:01
  Speaker 2: Okay, I have a theory and people back me up here, don't back me up on here.
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: So, like back in the day, like I love, like the, I love history and I love medicine, so I love the history, medicine is great.
• 23:10
  Speaker 2: And so, basically, when, like doctors, and when they're old time, they come along to your house with a little old timey doctor bag, right, okay.
• 23:17
  Speaker 2: And they're like, oh, my, my child or my husband is sick from this thing, and he looks at him and he's like, well, fuck, I don't know what the hell this is, but like he needs to charge them, right.
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: Like you need to make money as a doctor, of course, right.
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: So what do you do?
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: Do you just tell them like, hey, there's nothing I can do.
• 23:31
  Speaker 2: Can you pay me please?
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: No, that's not going to work.
• 23:33
  Speaker 2: You're not going to make shit doing that you got some leeches on that kid?
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Leeches, definitely an option, for sure.
• 23:39
  Speaker 2: But like, yeah, those are alive, you got to carry them around.
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: So you just take little.
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: You know a medics that just make people throw up or poop or both, you know whichever.
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: As long as it comes out and end, it doesn't matter, and so I think that's just.
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: It's the idea that we're just like flushing things out.
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: I think it's the idea that there's bad visually seeing something expelled from your body or seeing something.
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: That's the thing.
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: What people want is to see something happen.
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: So as long as if there's stuff coming out of your nose, mouth, anus, it doesn't matter.
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: As long as things are leaving your body, people can say, hey, that's the bad stuff.
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: You know, I'm, I'm, things are clicking.
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: Guys, I'm on a roll here.
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: So then there's like the people who do like the parasite cleanses and they're like look at my poop, there's all these parasites.
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: It's like no, that's just bits of your intestines because you've been taken like I don't know, it's a whole bunch of shit you shouldn't be.
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: And so it just looks like worms and so we need to see that we were, we're dumb, ape people.
• 24:34
  Speaker 2: Basically is what I'm saying and we need to see little.
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: We need to be able to see things in order to say, yes, that works.
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: If you take something, you don't see anything.
• 24:42
  Speaker 2: That it doesn't work.
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: That's my theory.
• 24:44
  Speaker 3: When I hear something funny on that one.
• 24:46
  Speaker 3: I had tapeworms in November and I had to take a anti-helmetic like I've remectant.
• 24:51
  Speaker 3: I immediately got COVID after that, like within two weeks, Didn't help.
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: So you're saying that horse medicine isn't going to be the cure for COVID?
• 25:02
  Speaker 3: Nope, it is likely not.
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: Dun, dun dun.
• 25:06
  Speaker 3: Although my veterinarian did turn me on to one animal medication that I will say works, and that is a ringworm spray.
• 25:12
  Speaker 3: It works really, really well on athletes, but Really.
• 25:17
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so actually I have a funny story about that.
• 25:18
  Speaker 3: When my partner was deployed, he gets he has chronic athlete's foot because I think he needs to work better on keeping his feet clean.
• 25:27
  Speaker 3: But I sent him the horse ringworm spray and it became really popular on base.
• 25:32
  Speaker 3: So he handed it out to people and said if you share this with anyone you have to say it's dog medicine.
• 25:39
  Speaker 2: That's.
• 25:39
  Speaker 2: That's awesome.
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: Sometimes cigarettes go around.
• 25:41
  Speaker 2: Sometimes you know playing cards.
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: Sometimes it's athlete foot spray.
• 25:45
  Speaker 2: That's for a dog like you never.
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: I feel like I need to go take a visit to my vet and keep some of that on hand for going out hiking.
• 25:59
  Speaker 3: You can buy it on Amazon.
• 26:00
  Speaker 3: I'll link you to it.
• 26:00
  Speaker 3: It works really well After like 10 years.
• 26:03
  Speaker 3: We have finally cured my partner's athletes, but because it was just not going away.
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: That is really good.
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: I think after a good day of hiking.
• 26:15
  Speaker 3: I don't recommend people listening take any medication made for animals, like when you do the dosages you have to calculate, like the molecular weight of the substance and your body to try and convert it.
• 26:26
  Speaker 3: And we don't have the same levers or kidneys or like just don't take animal medication, please.
• 26:30
  Speaker 3: The spray is okay, it's not going in you.
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: It's.
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: It's terrible we have to put a disclaimer like that you know, that's one thing, though is when, looking at studies in rats, people forget that there's that conversion you have to make If it's if something.
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: The dose of something is 300 milligrams per kilogram in a rat.
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: It is not 300 milligrams per kilogram in a human.
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: Or if you just dump some shit on a Petri dish, that's a little bit different than your body.
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: So basically what we're saying is don't listen to headlines only and don't take animal medication in moderation.
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: See you guys later.
• 27:13
  Speaker 3: You know what does cure or kills cancer cells Firearms.
• 27:17
  Speaker 3: It works too.
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: Oh, that got dark.
• 27:20
  Speaker 3: Yeah, oh.
• 27:21
  Speaker 3: I'm just saying like when people are thinking like, oh, better almonds cure cancer, like a lot of stuff kills cells, it doesn't mean you should try and use them.
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, a lot of people definitely like.
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: They get desperate looking for a cure for cancer and they fall prey to the scams and stuff of alternative medicine and they would have done so much better just taking whatever treatment is appropriate according to science.
• 27:50
  Speaker 3: I'm okay with adults doing that, but people have killed their children trying to give them alternative medications rather than actual medicine.
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: Yes, they have.
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: It's kind of frightening.
• 28:02
  Speaker 2: But when something doesn't have a cure, people get desperate, like and desperation is really, I think, the key here, because I mean when, when you're in that situation, you'll try anything.
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: And if somebody online says like this worked for me and you know, and like I'd love to just go back and say, like the hierarchy of evidence, like yes, you might have this meta analysis with all these studies and tons of people and all this, that is nothing compared to.
• 28:25
  Speaker 2: I cured my neighbor, my child, my friend, myself with this.
• 28:31
  Speaker 2: The anecdotes are so powerful to your average person, like to your person, who's actually?
• 28:38
  Speaker 2: Who's actually like?
• 28:39
  Speaker 2: Who's looked at scientific literature and like does this on a daily basis, whatever?
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: It's like, yeah, no, that's nothing.
• 28:44
  Speaker 2: But to your average person, a fucking anecdote, is the world Like wait, hold on, you're cured.
• 28:51
  Speaker 2: Who with what?
• 28:52
  Speaker 2: That's what I'm suffering from.
• 28:54
  Speaker 2: It's, it's so powerful, it's so unbelievably powerful.
• 28:58
  Speaker 3: I was going to just say there's one other problem with animal models, because animals are different than us.
• 29:02
  Speaker 3: So when you hear that something cured something in rats, it's not a direct comparison and that's why we have to go through animals like macaques or chimpanzees before we get to us, because we don't know if the same effect is going to be seen in humans.
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, what was it?
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: Smeglotide, I think, was the one that people got worried about it causing throat cancer in rats, but it was binding to a receptor in rats that humans literally do not have.
• 29:29
  Speaker 3: I'm also really concerned about people taking diabetes medication to lose weight for a variety of reasons.
• 29:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah, interesting.
• 29:36
  Speaker 2: What are your thoughts on that?
• 29:38
  Speaker 3: Okay, so, first and foremost, this is a medication that people need to treat diabetes and the popularity has resulted in shortages where people can't get diabetes medication.
• 29:50
  Speaker 3: We also don't know the long term consequences.
• 29:52
  Speaker 3: I mean, when you have diabetes, you're going to probably try to avoid other things like high blood sugar, which can damage your body and make you go blind.
• 30:00
  Speaker 3: So in an average person, what is it going to do to them 10 years down the road?
• 30:05
  Speaker 3: They weren't trying to avoid something terrible.
• 30:08
  Speaker 3: They're just giving themselves the substance that they don't need.
• 30:11
  Speaker 3: It also doesn't change their behavior.
• 30:12
  Speaker 3: They're going to gain weight later.
• 30:16
  Speaker 3: There's also one issue gastroparesis which I have because I took Cyprus foreign.
• 30:19
  Speaker 3: I'm not saying don't take your antibiotics, but I have a contradiction that the doctor didn't notice.
• 30:24
  Speaker 3: It gave me gastroparesis, which means my guts move too slow.
• 30:28
  Speaker 3: It's not fixable.
• 30:28
  Speaker 3: We don't know how to cure it.
• 30:30
  Speaker 3: I have to live with that.
• 30:31
  Speaker 3: I've gotten a little bit better over the years, but I cannot imagine taking a medication that could cause that to lose weight and then having to live with it forever.
• 30:42
  Speaker 3: Interesting.
• 30:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: A lot of people don't take notice of what the side effects of their choices could possibly be.
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: But weight loss, again, is one of those things that a lot of people have been saying, things that a lot of people have been searching for for a long time, and they've struggled and they've lost weight and gained weight.
• 30:58
  Speaker 2: So, again, if you find something that actually works, you say, oh, side effects, fuck it, it's working.
• 31:05
  Speaker 2: So I understand, I get where they're coming from.
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: Right it's definitely important to point that out that just because somebody said something worked for them, or just because something like a weight loss thing is a side effect of a drug, doesn't mean that you should go out and take it.
• 31:24
  Speaker 3: Yeah, Kind of like when people decide to take Adderall to lose weight.
• 31:27
  Speaker 3: They end up addicted to it and it doesn't help once they stop taking it.
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah, the best thing you can do for losing weight is just developing better habits in your life.
• 31:39
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I wanted to ask you about that because you point out a lot of really bad advice on social media.
• 31:46
  Speaker 3: Do you have any thoughts on that, like the consequences of people saying oh just, you need to go on a raw diet or a meat diet, which either way can cause kidney failure?
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they're reinforcing these habits that people are forming that are, first of all, they're unnecessary, because we know that, like, a little bit of sugar is just fuel for your body, it's not going to harm you.
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: A little bit of fat just helps your body absorb fat-soluble vitamins, it's not going to harm you.
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: It's always these extremes that are the bad things.
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: Usually, what happens with those various advices like going carnivore, going keto, all that they usually are advising people to go extreme in one way or another.
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: They're developing these habits that could be damaging to them in the long run, or they're trying to force their life into a style of living that they can't sustain in the first place.
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: They can't actually form habits around it.
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: They're not enjoying it.
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: They're going to give it up and then they're just going to go back to the way they were eating in the first place.
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: Thank you.
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: Which is the way they got the weight on or the way they got unhealthy to start with?
• 33:13
  Speaker 3: I've watched my dad be on a diet for like literally the last 30 years and just gains it all back every time I managed to improve my diet.
• 33:23
  Speaker 3: I have maintained the exact same weight for just about 10 years now and I'm still watching him yoyo Like have the doughnut.
• 33:30
  Speaker 3: Just try to maintain it over time so you're not overeating every day, but the allure of losing 10 pounds in a week is just still there.
• 33:40
  Speaker 2: Listen, let me break it down for everybody.
• 33:42
  Speaker 2: Listen, I'm going to tell you how it works.
• 33:43
  Speaker 2: This is how it works.
• 33:44
  Speaker 2: Okay, right, so there's a person.
• 33:47
  Speaker 2: We're going to call him Phil and Phil has I'm Phil.
• 33:50
  Speaker 2: Phil.
• 33:50
  Speaker 2: His name is Phil, I've already decided.
• 33:52
  Speaker 2: All right.
• 33:53
  Speaker 2: So there's Phil, and Phil has lost a bunch of weight doing a diet.
• 33:57
  Speaker 2: We're going to use keto because I hate it.
• 33:58
  Speaker 2: And so Phil lost a bunch of weight doing keto.
• 34:02
  Speaker 2: Now he tells his friend, george George, you got to try this.
• 34:06
  Speaker 2: Holy shit, like I lost so much weight.
• 34:07
  Speaker 2: George tries it, he loses a bunch of weight.
• 34:09
  Speaker 2: Now he gets online, he starts telling people about this diet.
• 34:12
  Speaker 2: He's starting to like, hey, keto is the way to go and here's where it really happens.
• 34:17
  Speaker 2: Okay, then you start getting clients, you start selling supplements, you start whatever.
• 34:23
  Speaker 2: You start making money in some way off the keto diet.
• 34:27
  Speaker 2: And now your whole personality and your whole media, social media presence has tied to keto.
• 34:33
  Speaker 2: So now you have this massive confirmation bias where everything it has to be keto.
• 34:39
  Speaker 2: If it's not keto, then you are wrong, then you don't make money.
• 34:43
  Speaker 2: So now it doesn't matter.
• 34:45
  Speaker 2: It truly does not matter what evidence people show you.
• 34:51
  Speaker 2: If it doesn't work for someone else, it doesn't matter, because everything around you is revolved around this one diet.
• 34:59
  Speaker 2: So if somebody didn't did keto and it didn't work out for them, they just did it wrong.
• 35:04
  Speaker 2: That's just on them, because they didn't do the diet right.
• 35:08
  Speaker 2: They didn't do whatever special rules you fucking came up with, phil came up with.
• 35:12
  Speaker 2: So now and you can see this through literally anybody you look at like someone like Paul Saladino, carnivore MD, like it's all about this animal-based diet, so everything all his.
• 35:25
  Speaker 2: If you point out research showing like, hey, a lot of what you're saying is not founded in the literature, it doesn't matter, because his whole presence has become animal-based, and here's my supplements and here's every other way I make money off it.
• 35:39
  Speaker 2: So you have to just keep pounding away at whatever the fuck you came up with in the first place.
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, the confirmation bias is real.
• 35:49
  Speaker 3: I want to tell people about the Carnivore diet and the only way you can make it work.
• 35:53
  Speaker 3: So I will take my cat for an example.
• 35:55
  Speaker 3: My cat is an obligate carnivore.
• 35:57
  Speaker 3: I have to supplement her diet with plants because normally she would be getting that plant material from the guts of her prey.
• 36:04
  Speaker 3: So if you really want to make a Carnivore diet work, you have to eat it raw, because cooking can destroy a lot of the nutrients, including vitamin C, and you have to eat their guts because that's where you're going to get plant matter.
• 36:14
  Speaker 3: Might be a lot safer to just cook your meat and eat vegetables.
• 36:17
  Speaker 3: I love that.
• 36:19
  Speaker 3: That sounds dumb.
• 36:20
  Speaker 3: That sounds like a lot of work.
• 36:23
  Speaker 2: I give you one thing, I want one thing.
• 36:25
  Speaker 2: So you just said I have to eat raw meat.
• 36:26
  Speaker 2: There you go.
• 36:27
  Speaker 3: Boom, you have to eat the entire animal.
• 36:29
  Speaker 2: Okay, so I have to eat a whole thing You're going to eat the pancreas and it's part of his liver.
• 36:33
  Speaker 3: Don't eat a lot of liver because it has toxins and a ton of vitamin A in it.
• 36:36
  Speaker 3: You got to eat the lungs, you got to eat the brain and hope that you don't get a prion disease.
• 36:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, what do you think?
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: Lungs taste like?
• 36:46
  Speaker 3: I've had haggis, but I've had haggis.
• 36:48
  Speaker 2: Oh, haggis is a good one, but haggis is just like everything.
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: They're kind of just like blend the whole animal up and just like throw it in there, right.
• 36:56
  Speaker 3: Yeah, you can't actually eat lungs in the United States because they don't consider it suitable for human consumption.
• 37:00
  Speaker 2: Interesting.
• 37:01
  Speaker 2: So then we just have to speculate.
• 37:03
  Speaker 2: I think it tastes airy, I think it tastes like a little spongy and like it's light, like an angel food cake.
• 37:09
  Speaker 2: I think that's what lungs taste like, minus being so sweet and tasting like cake.
• 37:17
  Speaker 3: I know that I've had pancreas, but actually does kind of taste sweet and spongy.
• 37:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so I think it's kind of like lungs.
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: Well, there we go.
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: What?
• 37:27
  Speaker 2: do you think of appendix?
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: Pancreas is sweet huh the what tastes like Appendix.
• 37:32
  Speaker 2: What do you think an appendix tastes like?
• 37:33
  Speaker 2: It's kind of small, right, so is it just something you kind of pop in there with one go, or do you have, to like, cut it?
• 37:39
  Speaker 3: Probably taste the same as tripe, because it's just like another little hole in your intestine, because yeah, it doesn't have like collect stuff.
• 37:46
  Speaker 2: We don't really use our appendix anymore, but like that theory, was it used to like collect some of the whatever fucking stuff you ate and then you did things with it?
• 37:53
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 37:54
  Speaker 2: Appendix is yeah.
• 37:56
  Speaker 3: I can tell you humans are a very strange animal.
• 37:58
  Speaker 3: So in most animals, like carnivores, they have a functional appendix because that collects bacteria.
• 38:03
  Speaker 3: So when you poop you don't lose all of your bacteria, it just kind of holds onto it so you can digest stuff.
• 38:07
  Speaker 3: So humans have the part of the gut of a carnivore.
• 38:11
  Speaker 3: Our stomachs are very, very acidic, but the rest of our guts just aren't adapted for a meat diet.
• 38:19
  Speaker 3: If you try to eat just meat you'll end up constipated and get diverticulated.
• 38:25
  Speaker 2: So do you think it tastes good?
• 38:26
  Speaker 2: Is that what you're saying?
• 38:28
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I like tripe, I like bargain meats.
• 38:32
  Speaker 2: Okay, what about?
• 38:32
  Speaker 2: Like a stomach, is that?
• 38:33
  Speaker 2: Like kind of like a lemon or a lime, like is it acidic?
• 38:36
  Speaker 2: Is it like, because you know, stomachs are acidic, lemon acidic.
• 38:39
  Speaker 2: I feel like those two things are the same.
• 38:40
  Speaker 2: Probably just a tripe.
• 38:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 38:46
  Speaker 3: You're not eating the stomach acid.
• 38:48
  Speaker 2: Oh right, I guess you probably don't eat the stomach acid.
• 38:50
  Speaker 2: You gotta drain it first.
• 38:51
  Speaker 2: But like what if?
• 38:55
  Speaker 2: You just kind of cook the whole thing whole and then you just eat it Like I'm just saying listen, these are the questions we need to ask, that's.
• 39:02
  Speaker 2: You know, I everybody's too afraid to ask these questions.
• 39:04
  Speaker 3: Fun fact our guts are capable of eating rotting meat, but because we have such a sterile diet in life, we can't eat it.
• 39:12
  Speaker 3: If you grew up in a country where they didn't have refrigeration and you had to eat a lot of rotting meat, you wouldn't die because your body has gotten used to those microbes.
• 39:20
  Speaker 3: When people die a horrible diarrhea, death it's dehydration that gets them because your body is reacting to something it's never seen before.
• 39:27
  Speaker 3: It's a little bit like an allergic reaction.
• 39:29
  Speaker 3: So you're saying Traveller's diarrhea.
• 39:32
  Speaker 2: Okay, so what you're saying is we've gotten soft, is basically what you're saying America has gone soft and we need to go back to our eating rotten meat ways.
• 39:40
  Speaker 3: Please don't feed your children rotten meat.
• 39:42
  Speaker 3: I don't feel like that needs to be said, but yeah, don't do that?
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: No, that definitely needs to be said.
• 39:50
  Speaker 2: With the videos we make and go over.
• 39:52
  Speaker 2: It does need to be said that you shouldn't eat rotten meat.
• 39:55
  Speaker 2: Oh shit.
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: Actually no, morticia.
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: After we were done with our episode with her, we started talking about the fads going around of people eating rotten meat.
• 40:09
  Speaker 3: I don't know if you remember that that was a thing People did this.
• 40:13
  Speaker 1: It's a thing People will like.
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: They set meat aside for like a year and then they will eat it.
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: What doesn't kill you, makes you stronger right?
• 40:27
  Speaker 2: Isn't that the old saying?
• 40:28
  Speaker 2: No, actually, no, it just makes you really weak until you eventually.
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: What doesn't kill you leaves you in a hospital bed, in a coma.
• 40:40
  Speaker 2: What doesn't kill you makes me fucking miserable and wish you didn't do the thing that you did.
• 40:46
  Speaker 3: Oh, that's actually kind of an interesting topic.
• 40:48
  Speaker 3: Since we started storing food, we have a host of new diseases that we wouldn't have experienced before, like botulism.
• 40:56
  Speaker 2: That's true.
• 40:56
  Speaker 2: No good deed goes unpunished.
• 40:59
  Speaker 2: Hey look, I figured out a way to preserve food.
• 41:01
  Speaker 2: Well, fuck, now we got more problems.
• 41:03
  Speaker 2: Well, we got other problems.
• 41:05
  Speaker 2: They're just different problems.
• 41:06
  Speaker 2: They're always just different problems.
• 41:09
  Speaker 3: That's kind of the motto of humanity, isn't it?
• 41:11
  Speaker 2: Right, you solve looking that, and now you got to work on more shit.
• 41:14
  Speaker 2: Yep, what do you think a nose tastes like?
• 41:17
  Speaker 2: See, I feel like it's real cartilagey, you know.
• 41:20
  Speaker 2: So it's like real hard, like pigs.
• 41:22
  Speaker 3: Now, Are you with the grit cannibal?
• 41:25
  Speaker 2: I'm starting to feel like that.
• 41:26
  Speaker 2: No, I'm sorry I didn't hear what you said there, I just got to keep talking.
• 41:29
  Speaker 2: Um.
• 41:29
  Speaker 2: So like I think, like ears and nose like probably be pretty similar, right, like it's just like that cartilage, I feel like that's something.
• 41:36
  Speaker 2: I feel like a nose is a slow roast situation, like a slow cooker you know what I'm saying.
• 41:41
  Speaker 2: Like it would have to, you'd have to break down, break it down for a long time, right, and maybe add some of the stomach acid or whatever, just to like kind of soften it a little.
• 41:51
  Speaker 2: No, am I?
• 41:53
  Speaker 2: I'm alone.
• 41:53
  Speaker 2: Okay, that's fine.
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: You've gone from eating grass to eating noses.
• 42:00
  Speaker 2: We say eat a wide variety of foods, Rob, I've, and you and you get mad at me for sticking to that.
• 42:04
  Speaker 2: That's no, that's cool, Like whatever you know, I just try to do what we say.
• 42:11
  Speaker 1: I uh.
• 42:11
  Speaker 1: Fair point, that's a fair point.
• 42:13
  Speaker 1: Fair play to you, liam.
• 42:16
  Speaker 2: Say eat variety, and then get all mad at me.
• 42:20
  Speaker 3: I'm going to brain dump all that.
• 42:22
  Speaker 1: That's going to be most people after this episode, I think.
• 42:31
  Speaker 2: Give us a fun like fact thing that you found in like I don't know throughout your work that, but you tell people and they're like what?
• 42:36
  Speaker 2: That's crazy, I didn't know that was a thing, and you're like it's totally a thing.
• 42:40
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so you know that thing where we have chloroplasts and plants and mitochondria in both and they were likely their own organism at some point my model organism is an intermediate.
• 42:54
  Speaker 3: It's on its way to becoming a plant organ.
• 42:56
  Speaker 3: I work with Rhizobia, which are nitrogen fixing bacteria, and for some of them they go inside of the plant and then they become plant organoids.
• 43:05
  Speaker 3: Like they're never able to resume free living life.
• 43:07
  Speaker 3: Some of them do escape, but it's really easy to see how they could just not escape at some point and stay inside the plant cells.
• 43:16
  Speaker 3: So when people talk about transitions and evolution, they don't realize that everything is still in the process of transitioning.
• 43:22
  Speaker 3: Good point it's so cool when you find an intermediate that can show this is how this thing likely happened.
• 43:30
  Speaker 2: So how long do you think it's going to take?
• 43:31
  Speaker 2: Like a couple months a year, maybe another a few years, like.
• 43:35
  Speaker 3: I don't know, but I bet I could engineer them to stay inside of the plant and just be a GMO plant with the plant organoid bacteria.
• 43:43
  Speaker 3: I've heard GMOs are bad though.
• 43:45
  Speaker 2: I've heard those things are the reason that we're fat.
• 43:48
  Speaker 3: Why aren't people afraid of GMOs Like?
• 43:50
  Speaker 2: because it's no, no, no, no, I listen, I know this, I know.
• 43:52
  Speaker 2: This is why it's GMOs.
• 43:54
  Speaker 2: People don't like GMOs because it's scary science.
• 43:57
  Speaker 2: We're in the stage of getting back to nature, guys.
• 44:00
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 44:00
  Speaker 2: So everything natural is good, and the more artificial it is, the worse it is.
• 44:06
  Speaker 2: Let me look at vaccines.
• 44:08
  Speaker 2: Look at anything with like science-y stuff.
• 44:10
  Speaker 2: Science-y stuff is bad.
• 44:11
  Speaker 2: Now, okay, and it doesn't matter if you can show hey, here's all this research, it's totally fine, it's safe.
• 44:16
  Speaker 2: Millions of lives no, that's fucking dog shit.
• 44:18
  Speaker 2: That doesn't matter.
• 44:18
  Speaker 2: We are at the stage where we have to just start eating.
• 44:22
  Speaker 2: Everything immediately comes from the ground.
• 44:25
  Speaker 2: Fuck cleaning it off, just shove that shit in your mouth.
• 44:27
  Speaker 2: That's the stage we're at right now.
• 44:30
  Speaker 3: You know, at least with genetic engineering it's targeted.
• 44:33
  Speaker 3: We know what we're putting in when we take mutations like, hey, this broccoli is just really resistant to fungus.
• 44:38
  Speaker 3: We don't know if that's going to be a compound that's going to be toxic to us.
• 44:41
  Speaker 3: But I do have a really fun fact, and after World War II the United States wanted to change the view of nuclear bombs, so they decided to implement a bunch of science programs, one of which was tossing cadmium 60, a radioactive compound, into fields and just letting the plants mutate, and that ended up giving us most of the plants we eat today Like.
• 45:00
  Speaker 3: This one looks a little bit better.
• 45:02
  Speaker 3: We're just going to use this one.
• 45:03
  Speaker 3: This one's bigger, this one has more fruit Like wheat barley.
• 45:07
  Speaker 3: Everything on our shelves came from the nuclear program, which is just incredible.
• 45:11
  Speaker 2: That's awesome.
• 45:11
  Speaker 2: Just throw a bunch of shit at the wall and see what sticks basically.
• 45:15
  Speaker 3: Yeah, people actually started buying cadmium 60 and growing them in their own yards, which I'm guessing was not a good idea.
• 45:22
  Speaker 1: We don't know that.
• 45:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah, probably not a good idea.
• 45:25
  Speaker 1: We'll let Liam test that out.
• 45:29
  Speaker 2: What do you think a radiated meat tastes like?
• 45:31
  Speaker 2: What do you think after something's been irradiated, does it give it a slight tang, or like what's the deal I have?
• 45:37
  Speaker 3: irradiated meat in my body.
• 45:38
  Speaker 3: I had a cartilage transplant from a cadaver and they irradiated it, so all the cells were gone and then just shoved it in there.
• 45:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's holy shit, that's smart actually.
• 45:49
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and I don't have to take like immunosuppressants because all the donor cells were gone, it was just the cartilaginous structure.
• 45:54
  Speaker 2: Sucks only works for cartilages is not like hearts, because I feel like if you did that to a heart it wouldn't work.
• 46:00
  Speaker 3: Okay, that is a topic I would love to talk about, because somebody decided to just throw stuff at the wall and see if it worked and ended up setting back that research by decades.
• 46:09
  Speaker 3: So if you know the story of Dr Death, there was an Italian surgeon who decided to start taking 3D printed tracheas, doing no research.
• 46:19
  Speaker 3: She actually falsified his research and said he did animal models and started putting them in people's windpipes and I think all of it one of them perished, ended up going to jail for a while, kept his medical license, amazingly.
• 46:31
  Speaker 3: But that is the danger of taking something that sounds good and just doing it.
• 46:34
  Speaker 3: There's a reason that we have to do tests.
• 46:36
  Speaker 3: So I would caution people because eating this diet or this substance sounds good, maybe actually look at what it really does, but then you don't know if it were like if you just throw shit at the wall.
• 46:49
  Speaker 2: it might stick, though, like it might work, or you might kill a bunch of people.
• 46:54
  Speaker 3: Yeah, he lied about it and covered it up and just kept performing the procedure.
• 46:57
  Speaker 2: Wait, was he in Italy or was he an Italian doctor in America, or was he doing?
• 47:01
  Speaker 3: this.
• 47:02
  Speaker 3: He was an Italian doctor in Italy, but he falsified his research and ended up going to Sweden, I think, and establishing a lab and said, hey, this stuff works.
• 47:09
  Speaker 3: And they thought it did until they realized it didn't.
• 47:12
  Speaker 3: So he claimed that he was seeding them with stem cells and they grew and like ciliated, and in fact it was just a piece of hunk of plastic.
• 47:19
  Speaker 3: So one thing that we are all working on in the scientific community not me personally is taking irradiated tissue like my cartilage and growing stem cells on them to try to replace the structures of things like Hearts.
• 47:32
  Speaker 3: Unfortunately, a lot of that stuff lost funding after that research came out on the tracheas and no one wanted to touch it.
• 47:40
  Speaker 1: Understandable.
• 47:41
  Speaker 1: Is this the same guy that Barbara O'Neill tells people to go to to get baking soda injected into their veins?
• 47:56
  Speaker 2: They're things.
• 47:56
  Speaker 2: I don't want to know what those things are.
• 47:58
  Speaker 2: I was waiting for that last word and I'm very curious.
• 48:00
  Speaker 3: Is that to inject baking soda?
• 48:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 48:06
  Speaker 2: This podcast is just going to be us.
• 48:08
  Speaker 2: You remember the guy that said inject the thing into the thing, you go look it up.
• 48:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah, no, it was this, was this happened?
• 48:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it was baking soda.
• 48:18
  Speaker 1: Trying to look it up super quick, rob's just a bunch of like recipes on baking soda.
• 48:29
  Speaker 1: How much do?
• 48:30
  Speaker 2: you need to use for this cake.
• 48:35
  Speaker 1: Can't find the guy's name.
• 48:36
  Speaker 3: I would caution a viewer who wants to inject anything into anything.
• 48:38
  Speaker 3: Understand that your blood is liquid and if you're going to put anything in there that's not liquid, it could kill you.
• 48:43
  Speaker 3: But, yeah, I can't find the guy's name.
• 48:47
  Speaker 1: But she was, barbara O'Neill would talk about this guy in Italy who they they were doing the whole.
• 48:55
  Speaker 1: Cancer is a fungus and you can kill it with baking soda smart.
• 48:59
  Speaker 1: And so he would inject baking soda into his patients to kill the cancer.
• 49:07
  Speaker 3: They should arrest people for no, that's big government getting in the way of people curing cancer.
• 49:14
  Speaker 2: What are you talking about?
• 49:15
  Speaker 2: That's?
• 49:15
  Speaker 2: That's the man trying to put these people down who are trying to help others.
• 49:19
  Speaker 2: That's the least one.
• 49:25
  Speaker 3: Yeah, go on.
• 49:27
  Speaker 1: Supposedly he was like on the run from the law because he actually did kill people doing this.
• 49:34
  Speaker 3: obviously that's not, that doesn't come as a surprise.
• 49:39
  Speaker 1: But yeah, he, apparently he was like doing this while trying to evade being captured by the police.
• 49:46
  Speaker 1: I don't know if I don't know if it's the same person, but it sounds like it probably could be, because he was practicing in Italy as well.
• 49:56
  Speaker 3: I will look it up.
• 49:57
  Speaker 3: That is horrifying yeah interesting.
• 50:00
  Speaker 2: Wow, I think we should leave people with don't read headlines.
• 50:04
  Speaker 2: And what does an eyeball taste like?
• 50:06
  Speaker 2: Because I mean is it you?
• 50:09
  Speaker 3: just does it pop?
• 50:10
  Speaker 2: is my question.
• 50:10
  Speaker 2: That's really all I want to know.
• 50:13
  Speaker 3: I will say that if all the people were paying me that people say are paying me I could probably pay off my car and my student loans.
• 50:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you and me both.
• 50:24
  Speaker 3: Yeah, how do I go on a big farmers payroll?
• 50:26
  Speaker 3: And there you go.
• 50:27
  Speaker 2: That's the fucking now.
• 50:29
  Speaker 2: That's the question.
• 50:30
  Speaker 2: That's the question right there.
• 50:33
  Speaker 3: Yeah, thanks for having me.
• 50:35
  Speaker 3: This was a lot of fun.
• 50:38
  Speaker 2: I got asked questions I've never been asked before in my life.
• 50:40
  Speaker 2: It was a good time.
• 50:45
  Speaker 1: We spent half the podcast just wondering what different body parts tasted like.
• 50:49
  Speaker 1: That was the question Liam did, anyway, but you said it at the start, but you can say it again when can everybody find you?
• 50:57
  Speaker 3: Yeah, you can find me on tiktok or YouTube.
• 50:59
  Speaker 3: My username is bare bait official.
• 51:01
  Speaker 3: I am definitely the only thing that pops up when you type that into tiktok.
• 51:03
  Speaker 3: I'm still growing my YouTube, but I just like to explain complicated science topics, and I have an interest in spooky diseases.
• 51:11
  Speaker 1: You know, it's a fun fact People like going hiking with me, taking me hiking on trips with them because they know if they ever stumble on a bear, they all know that they will be able to run away because I will be busy trying to hug it.
• 51:27
  Speaker 1: I am the bear bait bear.
• 51:29
  Speaker 1: True story.
• 51:32
  Speaker 2: That was a long way to go for joke.
• 51:33
  Speaker 2: That's all I'm going to say.
• 51:34
  Speaker 2: That was like you had to go through some dips and valleys in order to get to that punch line it's not a fucking joke, it's the truth.
• 51:46
  Speaker 1: It's a legitimate thing that people will say when they want to go hiking with me.
• 51:52
  Speaker 3: I have one other really hilarious story about that.
• 51:55
  Speaker 3: My nickname is Bear bait.
• 51:57
  Speaker 3: I do a lot of hiking.
• 51:58
  Speaker 3: I encounter a lot of bears, one of my ex-boyfriends.
• 52:00
  Speaker 3: We were hiking and it got to be nighttime.
• 52:02
  Speaker 3: We were just trying to get back to the car.
• 52:04
  Speaker 3: We came across these two glowing eyes and then another pop of some other smaller glowing eyes popped up.
• 52:11
  Speaker 3: I shined my headlamp on it.
• 52:13
  Speaker 3: It was a mother bear.
• 52:14
  Speaker 3: I was just like all right, we're just going to back away, we're going to leave her alone.
• 52:17
  Speaker 3: My ex-boyfriend is freaking out.
• 52:20
  Speaker 3: He turned tail to run.
• 52:21
  Speaker 3: In the process he stabbed me through my foot, through my shoe, with a trekking pole and then promptly tripped and fell on his face.
• 52:27
  Speaker 1: Well, now we know why he's an ex.
• 52:29
  Speaker 3: Yeah, he fell on his face.
• 52:31
  Speaker 3: I'm concerned about somebody's abilities, maybe character.
• 52:37
  Speaker 3: If that's your first reaction to danger, stab someone and run.
• 52:40
  Speaker 2: All I can think is if that was filmed and then was uploaded to like Instagram, it would have 30 million views by the next day.
• 52:47
  Speaker 2: That's all you would be rich.
• 52:48
  Speaker 3: Oh God, I wish, I wish that was filmed.
• 52:51
  Speaker 3: Bear had no interest.
• 52:53
  Speaker 2: I just walked away calmly, thinking like Bear was just laughing its ass off, like what am I thinking?
• 52:58
  Speaker 3: In the moment I was hoping that the bear ate him alive.
• 53:01
  Speaker 3: Oh yeah, he had the keys, though I would be hanging out at the trailhead for a while, but in the moment I was just hoping for that.
• 53:08
  Speaker 1: So take away from this podcast, everybody.
• 53:11
  Speaker 1: Don't stab people in the feet when you're running from a bear Good, or if you do.
• 53:17
  Speaker 3: Good night everybody.
• 53:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, thanks for having me.
• 53:21
  Speaker 1: Don't trip and fall on your face.