Latest / Networking Unleashed: Building Profitable Connections / Networking Unleashed: S1E56 An Interview with Craig Taylor and Michael A Forman, Public Speaker

Transcript

Networking Unleashed: S1E56 An Interview with Craig Taylor and Michael A Forman, Public Speaker · Networking Unleashed: Building Profitable Connections

0:13
Welcome back to Networking Unleashed, where we
0:17
explore the real power of relationships and how
0:21
they drive business success. I'm your host, Michael
0:24
Foreman, and today we're diving into a conversation
0:27
that bridges behavior, communication, and cybersecurity
0:32
in a way you've probably never heard before.
0:35
My guest is an expert in using positive reinforcement
0:39
training method. positive reinforcement training
0:43
methods to teach cyber literacy, challenging
0:47
the fear -based tactics we often see in fake
0:50
phishing tests. He believes that how we train
0:53
people to protect data is deeply connected to
0:56
how we build trust, communicate, and network
1:00
in the digital world. If you've ever wondered
1:03
how human behavior impacts everything from password
1:07
habits to professional partnerships, this is
1:10
the episode for you. So let's explore how a more
1:13
positive, connected approach could be the future
1:16
of both cybersecurity and networking. I would
1:20
like to welcome Craig onto the podcast today,
1:24
and he is the expert that I was so diligently
1:27
speaking about. Craig. How are you? Welcome to
1:31
the show. And give us a little bit about your
1:33
background. Michael, that is a wonderful introduction.
1:37
Thank you for having me today. I'm really excited
1:39
to be here. And I do agree with you in that introduction
1:43
how positive reinforcement and experiences between
1:48
professionals, between IT departments and employees,
1:51
between partnerships. really has the ability
1:55
to solidify, strengthen, and enhance relationships.
2:00
So it makes a perfect fit in my mind for being
2:04
on Networking Unleashed. This is exactly the
2:08
kind of thing we need more of. And so thank you
2:10
for that. My background, just a brief introduction.
2:13
I've been doing cybersecurity after I got a psychology
2:16
degree in the early 90s. Before there was a World
2:20
Wide Web, I got into cybersecurity. My first
2:23
job out of college after a psychology degree
2:25
was for a firewall vendor. And I must have bought
2:28
a stack of books that would go up about three,
2:31
four feet off the floor. They were all the O
2:34
'Reilly books. I don't know if anyone would remember
2:36
those, but they had an animal on each cover.
2:38
So there was Sendmail and there was DNS and Bind
2:41
and all these different internet protocols. I
2:43
had to read and learn because I didn't have a
2:45
computer science degree. But I'd been on the
2:47
internet since the early days, since before modems,
2:50
when you had fixed connections and we had to
2:53
convince companies to when they're networking
2:56
into the internet to change the sense of that.
2:59
to put a firewall in place. Since that time,
3:02
I've worked at many Fortune 5000 companies like
3:04
CSC, Computer Sciences Corporation is what that
3:07
is, and Vistaprint, JPMorgan Chase. And then
3:11
I've really branched out 10 years ago. I founded
3:13
CyberHoop to bring cyber literacy to the masses.
3:17
And we have this big, hairy, audacious goal or
3:20
a BHAG of training a billion people with a B
3:23
on cyber literacy skills. We'll see how far we
3:27
get. That's me in a nutshell, though. Now, I
3:31
want to tell you that I remember the Internet
3:33
when it was strictly for military and teachers.
3:38
The hard wire for those, it was really incredible
3:42
to see where it's come and where it's going to
3:45
go. But you're going to help us with that. So
3:48
let me hit the first question. You approach cyber
3:52
literacy using positive reinforcement. How do
3:55
those same principles apply to how we build and
3:59
maintain professional networks? Positive reinforcement
4:04
theory is defined. It might help to explain that
4:07
a little bit. When you're trying to affect human
4:09
behavior, you can use negative reinforcement
4:12
or positive reinforcement. Negative reinforcement,
4:15
by its very definition, is designed to reduce
4:19
some behavior. thing you don't like. If you put
4:22
a shock collar on a dog and it zaps the dog when
4:25
they bark or when they get too close to the edge
4:27
of your property, that's reducing those behaviors.
4:31
But it doesn't teach the dog anything positive
4:33
or valuable. So to do that, you would need to
4:37
have treat -based approach with that dog. You
4:39
take it to the dog park and you give it treats
4:41
when it does the behaviors you want to see. And
4:44
so when you're talking about relationships, and
4:47
this is right out of Stephen Covey and some of
4:50
the other great books that have been written
4:52
you want to reinforce in the other person or
4:55
in the relationship the good things that you
4:57
want to see it makes no sense to me to try to
5:01
control another person with negative reinforcement
5:04
by cajoling them by embarrassing them by shaming
5:07
them and so if you wouldn't do that in a personal
5:10
relationship or in a partnership or a friendship
5:13
why would you do it in a business to try to affect
5:17
behaviors of your employees it doesn't make sense
5:20
so applying the any of the best practices that
5:23
you and i have both read about right listen first
5:26
to understand your friend your partner your colleague
5:31
and then to be understood if you apply that principle
5:35
you're going to be very successful in business
5:37
and networking and all of the all the good things
5:40
that come from that because other people just
5:42
want to be heard And so you need to do that in
5:45
the same sense with your employees. And that's
5:47
what we've taken a strategic approach towards
5:50
in my company. Does that answer your question?
5:54
Yeah, it does. Being a former business owner
5:57
in pizzerias, restaurants and things like that.
6:01
And really the relationship you have with your
6:04
employees is that positive reinforcement. There's
6:08
a big difference between a boss and a leader.
6:11
Yes. If you're a boss, you're just shouting whatever
6:15
that the upper management is doing. And negatively,
6:18
however it affects, it doesn't really matter
6:19
to you. You just go on your way. But being a
6:22
leader helps you with that positive reinforcement.
6:28
It teaches those people under you to be leaders.
6:32
Right. And that's really the major difference.
6:35
But okay. So why do you believe negative reinforcement
6:39
like... fake phishing emails does more harm than
6:44
good in cybersecurity training, and how might
6:47
that mindset also impact business relationships?
6:51
Okay, great. So that's a two -part question.
6:54
The first part is very simple. When you send
6:58
fake email messages to your employees to test
7:02
their cyber literacy skills, a bunch of different
7:06
negative outcomes occur. First, for anyone that
7:10
hasn't been trained previously and that's anyone
7:13
that's come out of an educational institution
7:15
whether it's high school or university they have
7:17
zero cyber literacy training they may have computer
7:20
literacy so they can read the email they can
7:23
respond to these emails they can click on things
7:25
but they don't know anything about why they shouldn't
7:30
click on links they probably know There are links
7:33
out there that I shouldn't click on, but they
7:35
don't know how to identify them. And so they're
7:37
full of anxiety and fear. And when you send these
7:40
messages, it just increases those negative affects,
7:44
the feelings of inadequacy, insecurity, anxiety,
7:48
and shame if they were to make a mistake. Some
7:51
companies go so far as to say you have a three
7:53
strikes rule. If you click on three fake emails,
7:55
you're fired. And that's common in banking industry
7:58
where they have zero tolerance for risk. That
8:01
just alienates the employee from their IT department
8:04
or their managed service provider. It's eroding
8:08
that relationship every single time they get
8:11
an email. And it's not always because they clicked
8:13
on it. Sometimes the emails are so simple minded
8:17
that the employees enraged at how stupid. The
8:21
IT department thinks I am that I would click
8:23
on that. It's too easy to identify as a fake
8:26
email and it's of questionable value, right?
8:29
Why are they wasting my time with these things?
8:31
On the other hand, there are IT departments who've
8:35
had a mandate to catch as many people as possible
8:37
to boost our false. click rates on fake emails
8:42
so that we can justify our budget and they make
8:45
things like holiday bonus emails and everybody
8:48
clicks everybody fails and everybody's irate
8:51
chaos ensues you don't have to believe me you
8:54
can go to reddit and search phishing p -h -i
8:57
-s -h email chaos and you'll see dozens of reddit
9:01
threads where people are like Who does this?
9:04
Why would they do this to us right around Christmas
9:06
or the holidays or this time of year or that
9:08
time of year? So it's causing this negative affect.
9:12
But the second problem with it is the technology
9:15
itself is broken. You cannot send a phishing
9:19
email to the inbox of a user as a fake email
9:23
test with any resemblance to the vendor you're
9:27
impersonating for the simple reason that one
9:29
spam report will. lead that email to the owner
9:34
of the correct domain. So if it was a Microsoft
9:37
impersonation attempt to see if someone would
9:40
click on a reset your password for Microsoft,
9:42
and it had anything related to Microsoft in the
9:45
domain name of the fake email sent to the inbox,
9:48
Microsoft lawyers will contact the vendor of
9:50
that technology and say, cease and desist. You
9:53
cannot impersonate us. And I know this from personal
9:57
firsthand experience. We've had three companies
10:00
sue us or threatened to sue us if we didn't stop
10:03
using a domain name that had some minor resemblance
10:07
to their company name in it. Zoom, I don't have
10:10
any problems telling you this because some companies
10:13
won't bother with you, others will. Zoom, the
10:16
IRS, and Facebook, Meta, all threatened us with
10:19
lawsuits if we didn't stop impersonating them.
10:22
Now, why does that matter, Michael? In the grand
10:24
scheme of things, realism matters. And if you
10:30
can't impersonate a domain name as a hacker would,
10:33
the end users are going to be dumbed down. By
10:38
that, I mean they'll learn that an obviously
10:40
wrong domain name from Microsoft email is all
10:43
I need to know. And so when a hacker sends a
10:46
Microsoft domain name that they managed to register
10:48
for a short period of time, maybe a week or two,
10:50
and they've taken the M. And now visualize this
10:54
if you're listening to this. Take that M in Microsoft
10:57
and change it into an R and an N. Leave the iCrosoft
11:02
in there and put on an account reset or something
11:05
in the middle so that people see Microsoft .com
11:08
in there. And suddenly you've got everyone clicking
11:11
because they haven't been trained to look for
11:13
typosquatted domain names or for a domain that
11:15
is off by a single letter. So that also flaws
11:19
the... traditional fake email testing. We're
11:22
getting into the weeds here. But suffice it to
11:25
say this, I'll conclude this point with the following.
11:27
A study by the University of Zurich in 2020 of
11:30
14 ,000 people over 15 months concluded that
11:33
unexpectedly, fake email phish testing leads
11:36
employees to click more, not less. Full stop.
11:40
So it doesn't work. And it's a $6 billion exercise.
11:44
And it leads to negative experiences for your
11:47
employees. and for your clients. So why are we
11:50
doing this? It doesn't make any sense. So the
11:54
opposite is also true. If you were to do, as
11:58
we do at CyberHoot, a fake email phishing simulation
12:01
that doesn't send the email to the inbox, but
12:04
brings you to a website where we can impersonate
12:07
the rnicrosoft .com. And in the moment, if you
12:11
don't know what to look for, we have a help you
12:13
guide that gives you the answer. in sort of an
12:17
open book test, ensuring that the stimulus is
12:20
this domain safe and the response, here's the
12:23
answer, are paired closely together. That's the
12:26
best of operant conditioning or human behavior
12:29
modification, giving you the answer and the information
12:33
in a realistic setting that allows you to learn
12:37
how to fish. So all of that's to say that. The
12:42
employees actually appreciate being taught how
12:45
to fish instead of being tricked with realistic
12:48
examples. And best of all, it's 100 % automated.
12:53
You don't have to punch holes in your infrastructure.
12:56
Secondly, you get metrics on every last person
12:59
doing this because we track the delivery. You're
13:03
providing every employee a positive experience,
13:07
an educational experience, and a reward system.
13:10
we haven't even talked about rewards, but gamification,
13:13
certificates of completion, continuing education
13:15
credits, and an avatar that grows in ferocity
13:20
that you can compare yourself with your peers,
13:23
your colleagues, your employees, and you can
13:26
show growth and improvement in cyber literacy
13:29
maturity. All of those things are positive reinforcements,
13:33
no different than taking a dog to the dog park
13:36
to have fun and teach them skills with treats
13:39
instead of throwing a shock collar on. And when
13:41
they bark, boom, zap them. Or when they get too
13:44
close to the property edge, zap them. That's
13:48
great. That's great. And there are so many things
13:50
that I wanted to ask you, but because of time,
13:55
I'm going to have to go to the next question.
13:56
You always answer. In the entirety of the question,
14:01
and that I really appreciate. From your experience,
14:05
how can business leaders create a culture of
14:08
trust, both in networking and cybersecurity,
14:11
without relying on fear -based tactics? It's
14:16
communication. we started out this conversation
14:19
today michael with communication and making it
14:21
listening to understand and being good leaders
14:23
to communicate the goals and objectives of your
14:26
company and if you do that in the goals and objectives
14:29
of cyber literacy you're going to reward the
14:32
relationships that you have with your employees
14:35
If instead you send no notice fake email phishing
14:38
tests and people get caught up in that and then
14:41
they're punished or shamed or even fired for
14:44
multiple offenses, you're creating a culture
14:46
of fear, anxiety, and deceit. And no one wants
14:52
to work in those places. If you go deep into
14:54
those Reddit threads I mentioned, you'll see
14:56
people who threaten to quit. They said, this
14:58
is the last straw. I can't believe they're doing
15:01
this to us. I'm going to start looking for work
15:03
elsewhere. Is that the kind of culture a leader
15:06
wants to have in their company or in their networked
15:09
French, the networking that they establish? It's
15:12
anathema to great relationships. And so when
15:16
you focus on good communication, education before
15:20
testing. I'm not suggesting you never send a
15:23
fake email test to verify. There was an old saying
15:26
in the 80s, Reagan, about, I forget what it was
15:28
in context of, maybe Star Wars at the time, but
15:30
trust but verify. Yes, you can send a fake email
15:34
at some point in the future to measure that they've
15:36
learned how to fish, but that's after you've
15:41
taught them the skill set. Then it's perfectly
15:43
fair to ask them to prove that they know. But
15:46
in the beginning, before anyone's received training,
15:49
that's not good leadership or good relationship
15:51
building. Training is the key amongst everything
15:55
else, even more so in what we're talking about.
15:58
But if you have a properly trained employee,
16:03
you'll get far better results. But going along
16:06
the communication thread, you've said cyber breaches
16:12
haven't changed much in 25 years. What do you
16:15
think about the communication gaps in organizations
16:18
today? There's been a study that a company called
16:25
Verizon, you probably heard of them. They do
16:28
a report every year on the breaches that have
16:30
occurred in the previous year. They do it every
16:33
year for 25 years now. And they did a longitudinal
16:35
study that said in 2003, the number one way companies
16:40
were breached was social engineering delivered
16:41
via email. That's called phishing. And in 2023,
16:45
the same thing is true. The breaches we see are
16:50
sourced from phishing attacks, caused by phishing
16:54
attacks and people that are unaware of it. And
16:56
yet businesses are still focused on this communication
17:00
style of gotcha. Let's send those gotcha emails
17:04
to see if people click because we've got to tamp
17:06
down clicks. We got to stop the bad behaviors.
17:09
But in anything, if you don't communicate the
17:12
good behaviors that you're looking for, people
17:15
are going to be fearful, anxious, and disillusioned
17:18
with the leadership in this company, in your
17:21
company. And so you're doing your company a disservice
17:24
by not communicating the behaviors you want to
17:28
see. And we can go back into it, but I've described
17:31
it. Looking through the email indicators of a
17:33
phishing attack. teaching those skills and saying
17:37
we want to see more of the knowledge that protects
17:40
our company and if you see something say something
17:43
on other events as well so communication all
17:46
boils back down to communication michael and
17:48
the problem with the industry of cyber security
17:51
is it's so immature it doesn't recognize this
17:53
yet it's almost like growing pains where that
17:56
you know seven -year -old who doesn't want to
17:59
go to bed in cybersecurity, I'm not tired, but
18:02
they are tired. And it's clear. The industry
18:04
doesn't realize, I don't want to stop. I want
18:08
to stop the clicks without recognizing there's
18:11
a positive way to go about that, that everyone
18:13
will actually pay attention to. One final point
18:17
on this. Psychology is my background. Psychologists
18:20
have studied human behavior and they've concluded
18:23
that positive reinforcement methods are the most
18:27
powerful behavior modification methods on the
18:30
planet. Put in real terms, a slot machine has
18:35
a variable rate positive reinforcement schedule
18:38
that really encourages people to keep pulling
18:41
that slot machine lever to see if they're going
18:44
to win something, even as paltry as 50 cents,
18:48
10 nickels. And that reinforces that behavior.
18:51
Gambling is a very powerful reinforcement structure
18:53
because it's variable rate. Negative reinforcement
18:56
only works when the negative outcome is a certainty
19:01
and just doesn't change behaviors. And we know
19:04
this from psychology. So apply that to the way
19:08
you operate your business, the way you network,
19:10
the way you communicate with people. And you'll
19:12
see that if you want people to really value your
19:17
relationship, you need to treat them with positive,
19:20
good communication, listening skills, and that
19:23
sort of thing. Okay. All right. Great. In what
19:27
ways are our digital behaviors, like how we handle
19:32
emails and passwords, reflections of our professional
19:36
communication habits? Let me think about this.
19:40
So professional communication habits. Sorry,
19:44
Michael, can we repeat that question? And I'm
19:47
trying to wrap my mind around it. Okay. In what
19:50
ways are our digital behaviors? like how we handle
19:54
emails and passwords reflections of our professional
19:57
communication habits so for that i'm going to
20:03
say that if you comport yourself or behave in
20:07
a way that is a win -win scenario for the person
20:11
on the other end of the communication you're
20:13
following up in what in my books is the best
20:17
leadership style available i see a lot of this
20:20
and i don't think we want to get into politics
20:22
but i see a lot of win -lose in our politics
20:25
today in order for one side to win the other
20:28
has to lose and in communications in a corporate
20:31
environment or on a business to business environment
20:34
you can never win with a win -lose communication
20:38
style You have to find common ground. You have
20:42
to find the overlapping concentric circles that
20:45
say, hey, if we do it this way, you're going
20:48
to win and we're going to win. And together,
20:50
the result is more than the sum of the parts.
20:53
So I think if you follow the approach of trying
20:56
to find win -win scenarios with your colleagues,
21:00
with your communication style, you're going to
21:02
be successful in business. You're going to be
21:04
successful in life as opposed to any sort of
21:07
a win -lose scenario. Does that? Yeah, that explains
21:12
it just a little bit. But if, let's say, a company
21:15
who did not hire CyberHoot and all of their employees
21:19
go on their emails and everything else and they're
21:22
getting into bad habits and they continually
21:26
do everything they're not supposed to do, but
21:29
they're doing it habitually. So they can do it
21:33
by getting negative results and say, ah. So what?
21:36
And they go on forth and do it again until Cyberhood
21:39
comes in and says, you're doing this all the
21:41
wrong way. And you get them to correct their
21:45
habits. So the difference between having a company
21:50
like Cyberhood and a company just not having
21:53
anybody is a huge difference. And you're really
21:57
putting the company at risk by just having all
22:03
the employees just go willy -nilly. by themselves.
22:06
So the habits are very important. Sure, absolutely.
22:12
I'll just add on to that. I think I agree completely
22:15
with you. The reality is people don't know what
22:19
they don't know with regards to cybersecurity.
22:21
And so they may worry to some extent about it,
22:26
but without knowledge of what the consequences
22:28
are, they have no reinforcement. positive or
22:33
negative to change their habits but if you give
22:36
them the why if you explain to your staff with
22:40
a tool like cyberhood or with any sort of cyber
22:42
literacy training why you don't want to use passwords
22:46
everywhere you go the same password why you need
22:49
to adopt a password manager why you need to learn
22:51
how to fish because these are clear and present
22:55
dangers we all face the third largest economy
22:58
in the world last year was cyber crime in terms
23:02
of revenue generated by email compromise, ransomware,
23:06
extortion, wire fraud. That's after only the
23:10
United States and China's economies, and they're
23:12
in the multiple trillions. Cybercrime was in
23:14
the trillion dollars of benefit to the hackers,
23:17
which is attracting more hackers to that profession.
23:21
And so people don't know this. It's good to hear
23:24
this on our podcast today and to learn that because
23:27
it provides the necessary reinforcement that
23:31
you have to do something. An ounce of prevention
23:34
on cyber literacy training with your employees
23:36
is going to be worth and solve a pound of cure
23:39
down the road with an incident. You want to avoid
23:42
those incidents if at all possible. The operative
23:46
word that I keep hearing is training. You have
23:49
to be trained. And again, that's where CyberHoot
23:53
comes in. It's to train your employees for these
23:58
types of things, but training is the key. Now,
24:01
can you share a real world example of where a
24:05
more empathetic or positive approach led to both
24:08
cyber hygiene and stronger workplace or client
24:13
relationships? Certainly. I have a minor study
24:17
that we did a few years back with one of our
24:20
IT providers. They had about 50 clients and they
24:25
put 40 of them into CyberHoot, 10 refused. And
24:30
then we monitored what happened over the subsequent
24:32
three -year period. Now, keep in mind, this is
24:35
an MSP, a managed service provider who provides
24:38
IT support to 50 companies around New England.
24:42
After three years, 40 of the companies remained
24:46
clients. The 40 that were in CyberHoot receiving
24:50
positive reinforcement, receiving... training,
24:54
educational training that was gamified, rewarding,
24:57
and all of that good stuff, they remained clients
25:01
of the MSP. Of the 10 who refused that positive
25:06
relationship and the benefits that came with
25:09
it, with training and with positive reinforcement,
25:11
of the 10, two canceled their MSP agreements
25:15
in that three -year period. It's a small study,
25:18
but what does that mean? it means there was real
25:21
value being delivered to each and every individual
25:25
receiving training from the tool each month potentially
25:28
perhaps there were other reasons here's the other
25:31
statistic that was really eye -opening for the
25:34
business owners of the 40 that were in cyber
25:37
who there wasn't one major security incident
25:41
in the 10 that refused cyber who there were two
25:45
major security incidents that led to downtime
25:48
and costly recovery efforts and the loss of clients
25:52
from a lack of protection of data. If you have
25:56
a ransomware event today, it's a double extortion
25:59
conundrum, right? The hackers are going to encrypt
26:01
your data, which you can hopefully restore from
26:03
backup, but they're going to exfiltrate it or
26:05
take it out of your company and publish it to
26:07
the internet to embarrass you or threaten to
26:10
embarrass you unless you pay that ransom. And
26:12
so the loss of I just this year went through
26:15
it with a client who had a ransomware event.
26:17
The data was being threatened to be released.
26:20
They had to notify all their clients that they
26:23
had been breached and explain how they were going
26:25
to prevent that from happening again. And I guess
26:27
the moral of this story or the lesson learned
26:30
is that through positive reinforcement, but through
26:32
positive interactions with your clients, you
26:36
can both increase retention. reduce the threat
26:40
of a breach, a costly breach, either as your
26:43
own company or at the companies you support,
26:45
and build those relationships and those networks
26:48
where people actually talk to other companies
26:52
in the area. And we got new business because
26:55
of this positive reinforcement training that
26:58
we delivered at that MSP to other businesses.
27:02
So it helped you win new business. Okay, so let's
27:06
move to the leaders and the professionals in
27:10
whatever environment. How can leaders and professionals
27:14
train themselves and their teams to be more cyber
27:18
aware and more relationally intelligent at the
27:22
same time? When you understand this coin that
27:28
I like to call negative and positive reinforcement,
27:31
you understand that. there are so many benefits
27:35
to creating relationships based on positive experiences
27:39
right there's an old sales strategy i'm sure
27:41
you're aware of it you want to give your client
27:44
something three times three different ways maybe
27:48
even three different methods an email or a phone
27:51
call or some other benefit that you can extend
27:54
to them before you make your first request for
27:57
something on your side and in building that relationship
28:01
through those positive give give scenarios you're
28:06
going to be heard and perhaps reciprocated on
28:09
that request let's do business together why don't
28:12
you buy our service our product and if you've
28:16
done a great job of providing value to that relationship
28:21
ahead of time through positive interactions you're
28:24
going to be successful in business and if on
28:27
the other hand you don't follow that approach
28:30
and your first thing the first request out of
28:33
your relationship is an ask give me something
28:36
that's viewed as a negative or a negative reinforcement
28:39
to that relationship and people won't pay attention
28:42
to it they won't respond to your email they won't
28:44
engage and so i think it's a common psychological
28:49
phenomenon that for the world to work effectively
28:54
together You have to be asking yourself and as
28:57
a leader in your company, showing your employees
29:00
and your partners, your clients, that you're
29:03
out looking out for them and demonstrate that
29:06
over and over again, probably before you make
29:10
your first request for assistance or for a purchase
29:12
or for some relationship building connection.
29:16
In the networking world, going to networking
29:20
events or meeting with people. You should always
29:24
think to give and not receive. That's if you
29:28
have a servant's heart. Zig Ziglar really said
29:32
this the best, but when you are looking to give,
29:36
it takes all the stress, all the anxiety, all
29:40
the negative feelings out whenever you're going
29:43
to a networking event or something else like
29:45
that, because you're just saying, look, when
29:48
I sit down with somebody, when I'm interested
29:50
in creating that relationship, My question to
29:54
him or her is, how can I make you more successful?
29:59
How can I be a good referral source for you?
30:02
And I usually blows them away. Like, I don't
30:05
even know what you do yet. It doesn't matter.
30:08
So after he goes or she goes through the entire
30:11
process, we exchange business cards and everything
30:14
else, but they walk away. They're going to remember
30:16
me, but you have to follow through with. helping
30:21
them, referring them or something else. But that
30:24
line of how can I make you more successful? If
30:28
you have that as a mindset, really have it, not
30:34
just like blowing smoke, then it'll change your
30:37
world. And it will really change the way that
30:40
people view you as well. Okay. May I just comment
30:45
on that? Absolutely. Look at what you're doing
30:47
for us today at CyberHoot. Michael, you've invited
30:49
me onto your podcast. You've asked for nothing.
30:52
You've offered to highlight my company. You've
30:55
highlighted some of the high points and the benefits
30:59
of my company, all without ever asking me for
31:02
anything other than to be a guest on your show.
31:05
You're living and breathing the Zig Ziglar approach.
31:09
to networking. And that's why your podcast called
31:12
Networking Unleashed. This is very empathetic
31:15
or a great example of that comment. Thank you.
31:20
And thank you. I try to live that way. If it
31:23
lands on people, that's fine. If not, that's
31:25
fine too. But let's bring this whole podcast
31:28
full circle. Okay. What's your vision for the
31:31
future? where networking, communication, and
31:35
cybersecurity are all aligned to build safer,
31:39
smarter, and more connected organizations. I
31:43
would really love if the cybersecurity industry
31:48
as a whole grew up past its tantrum years and
31:54
said, we're going to embrace positivity. We're
31:56
going to follow Zig Ziglar's give before asking
32:00
approach. zero in on the positive behaviors we
32:05
want to see in the world of employees, email
32:09
processing, password hygiene, all the cybersecurity
32:13
skills. Because by adopting the positive measures
32:17
that we're talking about, by reinforcing through
32:20
benefits and giving employees kudos for accomplishing
32:26
things and certificates of completion, all the
32:29
things that we've tried to focus in on within
32:31
cyber who to teach cyber literacy skills and
32:35
then some that we haven't think thought of i'd
32:37
love to expand into other areas we're going to
32:39
be a model to the industry to help course correct
32:44
from this negative reinforcement approach of
32:46
reducing bad behaviors which leads to poor relationships
32:50
which leads to broken partnerships And instead,
32:54
course correct to a positive experience, to a
32:57
win -win scenario, to building and strengthening
33:00
client retention through all of these good things
33:03
that make people feel good. Learning and protecting
33:07
themselves and understanding the whys, why all
33:11
of cybersecurity matters so much, which is still
33:14
a vacuum for most people. I think that would
33:17
be my heart's goal of... cyber hoot. And if I
33:22
had a legacy, it would be to move us from negative
33:25
to positive. And I think that would be a really
33:27
good approach for most companies to embrace,
33:30
to really reward and benefit their employees.
33:34
Thank you so much. This was all very insightful
33:39
for those people that didn't have this in mind
33:42
for their employees, or even for them just working
33:46
by themselves. It gave them food for thought.
33:49
So if you wanted to have somebody contact you,
33:53
either just to talk to you about cybersecurity
33:56
or to hire you, what's the best way to do it?
34:00
There's three things I'll share with you. One
34:02
is we give Cyberhood away to any individual for
34:06
free for life. So if you're sitting out there
34:08
and you don't have a company or even if you do,
34:10
but you're not sure about things, sign up for
34:13
free to learn about cyber literacy. We'll give
34:17
you our... positive reinforcement, HootFish and
34:19
our awareness training videos for free, go to
34:22
cyberhoot .com slash individuals with an S on
34:25
the end, and you'll get everything we do for
34:27
free. The second thing I'll say is that as a
34:30
thank you for being on your show, anyone that
34:34
registers for a trial, a free trial, 30 days,
34:38
and we're month to month after that, we'll get
34:40
a 20 % discount on their rates. whether it's
34:43
a reseller or a direct, if they use the code
34:46
NETWORKINGUNLEASHED in honor of Michael Foreman,
34:51
we'll give you a 20 % discount code for life.
34:53
It won't go away. It'll be there forever. And
34:56
then thirdly, if you really just want to find
34:59
out more, email sales at cyberhoot .com and we'll
35:03
reach out to you. We can do a demo. We can share
35:05
whatever information you're after. So thank you
35:08
for the opportunity to give you those things
35:10
as a listener of this wonderful podcast. Craig,
35:14
thank you very much. Thank you for coming on
35:16
the show. And you've been a great guest. My pleasure.
35:20
Thank you, Michael. Well, hold on, folks. Don't
35:25
go anywhere. Let me just read a few of our sponsors
35:28
that we have. Struggling to read success? Maybe
35:31
it's time to quit. In Quit Your Way to Success
35:34
by Rodney Davis. This reveals 27 steps to breaking
35:39
bad habits that hold you back. This powerful
35:42
book helps you rewire your mindset, take control
35:46
of your actions, and turn setbacks into stepping
35:49
stones. With real -life examples. motivational
35:52
quotes, and actionable lessons, especially for
35:56
sales professionals. You'll gain the tools to
35:59
quit, what's stopping you, and start winning.
36:01
Transform your future today. So Quit Your Way
36:05
to Success by Rodney Davis, available now on
36:08
Amazon. And this is a non -profit called Revved
36:12
Up Kids. This is something I believe in wholeheartedly.
36:17
Revved Up Kids is on a mission to protect children
36:20
and teens from sexual abuse, exploitation, and
36:24
trafficking. They provide prevention training
36:26
programs for children, teens, and adults. To
36:29
learn more, go to revvedupkids .org. That's R
36:33
-E -V -V -E -D -U -P -K -I -D -S dot org. A huge
36:40
thank you to our guests for sharing such incredible
36:43
insights today. And of course, a big shout out
36:46
to you, our amazing listeners, for tuning in
36:50
and spending your time with us. If you're interested
36:52
in my digital courses, being coached, or having
36:56
me come and talk to your company, just go to
36:59
Michael and fill out the request form. Remember,
37:02
networking isn't about being perfect. It's about
37:06
being present. So take what you've learned today,
37:09
get out there, and make some meaningful connections.
37:12
If you've enjoyed this episode, please don't
37:15
forget to subscribe, leave us a review, and share
37:18
it with someone who could use a little networking
37:21
inspiration. Let's keep the conversation going.
37:24
You can find me on Apple, Spotify, Pandora, YouTube,
37:29
or my website, foreman .com slash podcasts.