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Streets Dept. Podcast feat. Conrad Benner · philly has heART

0:40
And today we have Streets Department. Conrad
0:45
Benner. Hi. Welcome, welcome. Thanks for having
0:48
me. It's a beautiful little Sunday. Yes, it is.
0:50
Yes, it is. So we're so excited for you to have
0:53
us join the podcast. Fun fact, you were one of
0:56
our Pie in the Sky guests that we declared at
0:58
the beginning of 2026. The pie is here. Yes.
1:01
The pie is here in a sweater, no less. And so
1:06
as we do with each of our guests, could you take
1:08
us through your journey that brought to you?
1:10
to your role as project manager of Neural Arts,
1:14
streets department podcaster, WHYY host, etc.
1:18
Those moments both big and small that directed
1:21
you to where you are today. Yeah, and I could
1:23
probably talk about that for five hours. So what's
1:25
like the shortest, most interesting version?
1:27
Let me think. I think my honest answer is I got
1:30
mono my junior year of high school, right? Okay,
1:33
so I went to Central High School and I was on
1:36
track to go to college. I would have been like
1:38
the second person in my family to go to college.
1:40
And I think I wanted to be an architect, and
1:42
that's probably the path I would have gone down
1:44
or something like that. But I got mono, and it
1:46
was a really tricky case, what we'd call long
1:49
mono now, where I had it for two years instead
1:51
of just a few weeks. Wow. So I had to leave school
1:54
and get effectively homeschooled. There was this
1:56
program through Philadelphia Public Schools called
1:58
Homeward Bound. So I still got my diploma on
2:01
time, but my transcript was a mess and I didn't
2:03
apply to college. So instead, I moved to South
2:05
Street at 19, worked at Whole Foods, met a bunch
2:08
of weird artists, and just started exploring
2:11
the art world. So who knows what my life would
2:13
be if I didn't get mono. You know, that's the
2:16
big and small. And then it was just like many,
2:18
many, many steps from there. You began Streets
2:21
Department as a digital guy in circa 2011, a
2:24
true pioneer. And did podcasts come shortly thereafter,
2:29
or did the podcast in WHYY form come first and
2:34
to be followed by Streets Department podcasts?
2:36
It started even before then. Like I said, the
2:38
friends I had growing up, we would go to the
2:40
movies, we'd walk down South Street, we'd go,
2:42
you know, to the... to the gallery. But the new
2:44
friends I was meeting when I was 19, 20, who
2:46
worked at Whole Foods were a little bit weirder.
2:48
And they wanted to go to art shows. And I thought,
2:50
why? What does that even mean? So we'd go to
2:53
First Friday shows. And at first I went for the
2:54
wine. Yep. Three glasses of wine. But then I
2:57
thought the art was really cool. You know, I
2:58
was one of those people who grew up with very
3:00
little exposure to the arts. So I thought the
3:03
arts were just like over there, you know, people
3:05
who wear suits and go to the ballet sort of thing.
3:08
In going to First Friday shows in my early 20s,
3:10
I found it really exciting. And I ended up just
3:12
bumping into people who offered me opportunities
3:13
to write freelance for different arts and culture
3:16
journalism projects around the city. So I wrote
3:18
for Philly Mag and Philly Weekly over the course
3:20
of a handful of years. And then when I was 24,
3:23
a van hit me biking up. Yeah, a lot of my story,
3:26
I have a lot of... Oh my gosh. Oh my gosh. How's
3:30
your health insurance right now? The more you
3:33
hear it, the more your, like, tragedy does just,
3:35
like, shift people's lives in different ways.
3:37
Yeah, I didn't have health insurance. I was 24.
3:39
A van hit me. I was in the hospital for a week.
3:41
I rotted my leg. $165 ,000 hospital bill. Oh,
3:44
my God. Obama had just become president, but
3:46
Obamacare wasn't a thing yet, so I got Medicaid.
3:49
I always forget which is which. Yeah, Medicaid
3:50
for, like, a year, which brought it down, and
3:53
then it kind of just disappeared, half ignoring
3:55
it, half, like, the insurance companies and Medicare
3:57
and a lawyer figuring it out. I think I paid
4:00
a little bit out of pocket, but it... was a while
4:03
many many years but through that experience you
4:05
know I went through a bout of depression I had
4:07
to move home for a little bit and I was looking
4:10
for a creative outlet I decided at that point
4:11
to start going to community college I was turning
4:14
25 and I thought I wanted some direction in my
4:16
life I was before that just working at a coffee
4:18
shop gelato shop for you know seven dollars an
4:21
hour and while I was doing this I couldn't really
4:23
do the journalism stuff anymore the arts and
4:26
culture writing it was just too much on my plate
4:28
but I wanted some creative outlet and I Recently,
4:31
I got a camera. A boyfriend had bought me a camera
4:33
for Christmas the previous year. And I thought,
4:36
well, I'm walking around everywhere because I
4:37
was not biking anymore. And, you know, walking
4:41
around, slower pace, you see a lot more. And
4:42
plus, I'm walking to community college from Fishtown
4:45
to the Gaperhood where my dollar shop was, seeing
4:47
a lot of stuff. And that was 2011 was when I
4:50
started the blog. And, yeah, it was a photo blog
4:53
at first. A lot of attention that first year.
4:55
Time Magazine republished one of my articles.
4:57
The podcast came many years later in 2017. Streets
5:00
Department podcast that ran for five years until
5:02
I then worked with WHOI for two years on Art
5:05
Outside. But now I'm back with the Streets Department
5:08
podcast. I'm so excited to be back. Due to many
5:11
things. Working with WHOI was wonderful, but
5:13
the Trump cuts did affect sort of their funding.
5:16
And I was one of the podcasts that got cut through
5:18
that decision. But, you know, everything's a
5:21
blessing and a curse in a way. You know, the
5:23
art outside was wonderful, but it was just conversations
5:25
with artists, which I found really interesting.
5:27
But the Streets Department podcast was conversations
5:30
with creative minds shaping the world around
5:32
us. So, yes, we talk with people from the arts,
5:34
but we also talk with politicians and other creative
5:36
minds. So I like that we're back to that. We're
5:38
back to a biweekly thing. There's 25 episodes
5:41
a year where with art outside, it was just five.
5:43
So, I mean, you know, the more you have to publish
5:46
a lot to get listeners. So I'm excited to bring
5:48
it back. and then meal arts is a whole other
5:50
conversation but I can talk about it too yeah
5:51
please please it's great so By the end of 2011,
5:55
I was invited to curate a show with street artists
5:58
at Philomoka. So it was the first time I curated
6:00
a project and did very little curation between
6:03
then and 2015, 2016. But by 2015, 2016, just
6:08
different opportunities came up with like Visit
6:10
Philly, different art galleries to curate things.
6:13
So I was curating regularly by like 2018 when
6:16
I got the idea to pitch a mural project to Mural
6:18
Arts called To the Poles, where we would hire
6:20
local artists. to paint murals about why they
6:22
vote, why voting is an important value for them.
6:25
And this was around the 2018 midterm elections.
6:29
Blue Wave. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Big one, too. Jane
6:33
Golden, like, gratefully said, yes, can you do
6:35
it with, like, XYZ money? And I said, that's
6:37
more money than I've ever been given for a project,
6:39
so yeah. Still, in the scheme of things, not
6:41
a lot. It was $30 ,000. But, you know, you have
6:44
to buy the wood, pay the artists, everything
6:45
costs money. Pay myself. And that was the first
6:48
big... project I did with Mural Arts, and then
6:50
it just kind of slowly ticked up from there.
6:52
And then post -pandemic, in 2023, they asked
6:57
me if I wanted to work there part -time and curate
6:58
projects. So I said, yeah, and I've loved working
7:00
with Mural Arts since. So yeah, part -time at
7:02
Mural Arts, full -time at Streets Department,
7:04
and I see my boyfriend whenever I'm not doing
7:09
all that. Yes. Work -life balance is in there.
7:13
Or whatever it is. What is it about murals for
7:19
you as opposed to museums and galleries or larger
7:22
scale performing arts? Yeah. How do those murals
7:25
speak to you the most? I mean, I think it was
7:28
funny you say scale because I think scale is
7:30
part of it. Like there's just, when you walk
7:32
down a, you know, Philly street, Philly is a
7:34
beautiful, it's the best city in the world. Go
7:35
birds. Okay. And it's really walkable and it's
7:38
a walkable city. It's scaled for like. a human
7:41
to walk down you know we have rural homes with
7:44
the exception of center city most of our streets
7:46
are pretty tiny so when you're on like a human
7:50
scale street which architects talk about a lot
7:52
and then you come to an intersection where there's
7:54
a two or three story mural i mean that's impressive
7:56
it's oftentimes maybe the largest work of art
7:59
you've ever seen or In the case of a lot of people,
8:02
sometimes the first work of art they've seen,
8:04
you know, outside of movies and TVs and books
8:06
and all that, right? There is like an attendance
8:08
issue at certain museums and galleries. So a
8:12
lot of times public art is one of the best ways
8:16
for people to access the arts. And in Philadelphia,
8:19
we are the mural capital of the world because
8:21
with Mural Arts Philadelphia and just the spirit
8:23
of mural making here in the city, we've created
8:26
some 4 ,000 to 5 ,000 murals. They don't even
8:28
know. We have so many of them, right? So they're
8:29
everywhere. And other cities have districts.
8:32
You know, other cities, it's like economically
8:34
driven, driven by developers, where it'll be
8:37
in a neighborhood around a bunch of businesses
8:39
or on a street where developers want people to
8:42
slow down and shop. You know, for example, we're
8:45
in Philadelphia, decent amount of public funding
8:46
mixed with grant funding and some individual
8:49
donors. So the spirit and the leadership over
8:53
the last 40 years has been to get it into neighborhoods
8:55
and get it kind of all over the place. Which
8:57
makes it a challenge running a street art blog,
8:58
because people come to Philly, they say, where
9:00
can I just say, you have to live here. Walk outside.
9:03
Yeah, well, walk outside for sure. But, like,
9:05
there's no, like, Wynwood Walls here. There's
9:07
no, like, murals in the market in Detroit. There's
9:09
no place you can go in 30 murals in one little
9:12
location. They're really all over the place.
9:14
The Gabor Hood's probably your best place to
9:16
go. You know, zigzag up and down 13th Street
9:18
between, like, Walnut and Locust. You'll see
9:22
a bunch, but for the most part, they're all over
9:24
the place, and that's great. So yeah, why murals?
9:26
I think because murals found me. Then I investigated
9:29
why I liked them. And my whole career will be
9:31
understanding why I like murals and why I like
9:33
public art and why I like art in the public space.
9:35
And it really was the door that opened to me
9:38
to this arts world. And I don't even think I'd
9:41
be going to museums and galleries as much as
9:42
I do now if I didn't have the door that was opened
9:45
to me by the public art in our city. So it's
9:48
valuable. What's next for Connor? Conrad. I'm
9:53
so sorry. Oh my gosh. What's next for Conrad?
10:01
What's next for me? I'm very much promoting this
10:03
podcast. That's next. Current and next. So, okay,
10:07
this episode comes out June 26th. Is that right?
10:10
So, drumroll please. Today. Literally today,
10:15
the day this comes out, we are revealing a project
10:18
I've been leading. whose name we have yet to
10:20
announce, but it's an LGBTQ leaders mural project
10:23
with Mural Arts Philadelphia and lead artist
10:25
Santiago Galeas. You might know there was a Gloria
10:28
Castro's mural in the neighborhood a number of
10:29
years ago that came down because of development.
10:32
It came down in a really shitty way. That's another
10:34
conversation. Google it. You will learn a lot
10:37
about that and how it came down and how murals
10:40
come down in Philly all the time. That came down
10:41
in a really unusually bad way. But since the
10:45
loss of that mural, there have been friends of
10:47
Gloria. family members of Gloria that have been
10:50
looking to find a place where we could redo a
10:52
Gloria mural, Gloria Castro's mural. And the
10:55
criteria there are, can we find a building owner
10:59
who we can almost guarantee wouldn't have it
11:01
come down anytime soon? So it's been a many years
11:04
struggle to figure out where this could happen
11:06
and where the funding would come from. But that's
11:08
been figured out. We've been working on this
11:10
for the past two years. We had an open call for
11:12
artists to apply and submit ideas. Santiago Galeas
11:16
won that competition. And we expanded it to not
11:19
just Gloria Castro's, but five honorees, five
11:22
folks that we'll be honoring in the mural. So
11:24
I would love for folks to go check it out. It's
11:27
in the back of Voyeur Nightclub on, I always
11:30
forget those alleys. I know. So the mural was
11:33
created with Mural Arts Philadelphia, lead artist
11:35
Santiago Galeas. We have terrific support from
11:38
council members Mark Squilla and Rue Landau.
11:41
Of course, Warrior Nightclub, Washington Square
11:44
West Civic Association. I mean, you have to name
11:46
all the partners because incredible works of
11:48
public art like this don't just happen overnight.
11:49
They are the result of people really pushing
11:51
forward. And the people that are going to be
11:53
honored in the mural include, as I mentioned,
11:55
Gloria Caceres, Michael Henson Jr., Don Marano,
11:59
Tyrone Smith. and Nisa Morris. If you're hearing
12:03
this, it means the mural's up. We are dedicating
12:05
it today. I mean, if you're catching this first
12:06
thing, come step by. We'll be dedicating from
12:08
11 a .m. to 1 p .m., but it'll be there for,
12:10
you know, as long as it's there. We're very proud
12:12
of it, and I hope we continue to make more murals
12:14
in the neighborhood that represent real queer
12:17
history and culture. 4 ,000, 5 ,000 murals in
12:19
this city. There are very, very few that honor
12:22
queer history, so very happy to work on this
12:24
and thankful to everyone involved. Conrad, have
12:27
you ever... created a mural yourself or has been
12:30
a part of a group that has created a mural and
12:34
what mural would you create in the future? That's
12:39
a good question. Well, I've curated a lot of
12:41
murals. A lot of them are temporary and I often
12:44
help the artists to paint those. So I've certainly
12:46
helped paint a mural. Yeah, maybe one day. I
12:49
mean, it's like the journalists who run for...
12:52
To become a politician one day, like maybe one
12:53
day after curating for 20 years, I'll become
12:56
an artist too. What would my mural be? I don't
12:58
know. I really do not know. I don't have a good
13:00
answer to that. And I saw it in your notes beforehand,
13:02
so I appreciate you saying it. But I don't know.
13:06
I just have to feel it. Yeah. I want more fun,
13:10
weird stuff. Yeah. 40 years old. I grew up with
13:13
Nickelodeon. Oh, that splat of orange. Yeah,
13:17
like, you know. One of the blessings of living
13:20
in a city like Philadelphia and having a community
13:21
mural program is that the community really leads
13:24
a lot of the decisions about what murals are
13:26
made in the city. So what it means is that a
13:29
lot of the murals are like the ones I just described
13:31
that are honoring real people and we want to
13:33
hold those murals with a lot of deference and
13:35
you're not going to paint. you know, a big booger
13:38
on a mural. But I like to see some dumb murals,
13:42
too. Yes, exactly. And dumb maybe isn't the word
13:45
for it, but, you know, just silly, silly, silly.
13:47
In my work with Mule Arts Philadelphia, I'm trying
13:50
to find walls like that. We do the thing called
13:52
Front Street Walls in Fishtown, where we let
13:54
the artists kind of lead those walls there. I
13:57
don't know why booger is the thing I'm stuck
13:59
on right now. Oh, it's because it's out. Because
14:01
we're thinking of Ren and Stimpy. Yeah, Ren and
14:03
Stimpy. Yeah, he's the guy with the eyes, like
14:05
all the gross little angels. But yeah, Front
14:10
Street Walls is an example of a project where
14:12
artists sort of lead the decisions. And we've
14:15
done two iterations there, eight different murals.
14:17
They're temporary. They rotate over the year.
14:19
And, you know, you can see some examples of like
14:21
artist -driven work there. One of my favorites
14:25
was El Toro, who we just lost, actually. But
14:27
he was a really pioneering sticker artist here
14:29
in Philadelphia who had yet to create his first
14:33
permanent mural. So in my mind, this was like
14:35
a step in that direction, this temporary mural.
14:37
He just painted a large version of his sticker
14:39
character. So more space for fun and play, and
14:42
in addition to all the great... work that we
14:45
do and can I just clarify my last answer too
14:47
I just want to say like what I mean by that I'm
14:49
saying burger just to be like silly right now
14:51
but what I mean is I just want artists to have
14:52
more freedom I love that we have a community
14:54
you know mural program I love that so many of
14:57
the public artworks in Philly are creative and
14:59
led by community. And I love our community of
15:01
artists, and I would just love more opportunity
15:02
for them to kind of do whatever they want. And,
15:04
you know, I think we get to learn what we like
15:07
through that, you know, artist leading decision.
15:09
So I'd like to see more of that. Do you, and
15:11
this, we can cut this out if it gets a little
15:14
too political or controversial, but through working
15:18
with mural arts, right, a lot of the times it
15:23
comes down to the funding. opportunities that
15:26
are out there to then be able to continue them
15:28
do you think that that has helped the city in
15:35
their creation of these murals to get those dollars
15:39
with maybe those dollars come with a certain
15:43
direction or does it hurt the city so arts funding
15:49
is A gigantic topic right now. And it's never
15:53
been tougher than it is now. Philadelphia and
15:57
Pennsylvania spend less money on arts and culture
16:00
funding than really any one of our neighbors.
16:02
Neighboring cities, neighboring states. If you
16:04
look at like the state level, we spend like 82
16:07
cents per capita on arts and culture funding.
16:09
Like even Ohio, God bless Ohio. In the $2, everywhere
16:13
else, Maryland, New Jersey, New York is in $5
16:16
capita. Wow. So we spend it next to nothing as
16:18
it is. One of my guests, by the time this is
16:21
out, we'll be talking with him, is Nikhil Saval,
16:23
state senator. We talk about arts funding. He's
16:25
really dedicated to that. He comes from not only
16:28
journalism, but writing, cares deeply about the
16:30
arts. And we talk about that challenge at the
16:32
state level, how he's in rooms with some of his
16:36
colleagues. And they have really challenging
16:38
conversations about this, that, and the other
16:41
thing. But he was like, arts almost never comes
16:43
up one way or the other, which is so disappointing
16:45
to me. And we've understood this as a country,
16:48
as a city, as a state. We fund arts and culture
16:51
the same way Tesla gets $20 billion, right? Like,
16:54
this is soft power. This is, it's a million things.
16:58
We're living in this world that is so complex
17:01
that one way to process everything and to move
17:04
ourselves forward is a... people is through the
17:07
arts. Everyone's work is important. The work
17:09
of artists is important as well. And I think
17:11
it's very undervalued in Philly and in Pennsylvania
17:14
particularly. So yeah, when funding from the
17:17
city, state, and federal government becomes lesser
17:20
than what it was in the past, you have to look
17:22
in other places. Grants are also really hard
17:24
to get money from right now. individual donors
17:26
you know we need the people with money who live
17:28
in philly well all the kids who work at comcast
17:30
who listen to this go support these non -profits
17:33
that are facing financial challenges that are
17:36
new and they need your support if you want to
17:39
live in a city with the arts go donate to mural
17:41
arts philadelphia and a number of the other arts
17:43
organizations in the city don't take these non
17:45
-profits for granted they do incredible work
17:48
The closer I've worked with Mural Arts, the more
17:49
I'm interested in all of it, including their
17:51
funding. And I went to a city council hearing
17:53
once about their work. And like three of the
17:56
city council people were like, every dollar we
17:57
give Mural Arts, we get $10 in return. Now I'm
18:00
paraphrasing. But what they were saying was Mural
18:02
Arts does so much with the money that they get
18:04
that it blows their mind every time. Okay. That's,
18:07
I believe, every arts and cultural organization.
18:09
Right. And yeah, the unrestricted funding, which
18:12
is what a lot of government money is, is beautiful.
18:13
It allows the organization, the artists, the
18:16
community to lead the decisions about what the
18:17
artwork is. And when you have to go to grant
18:20
funding or other funding, yeah, there are like
18:22
limitations or it has to fit into a certain shape,
18:25
which isn't bad or good, you know, I mean, necessarily.
18:28
But as someone who's worked on various different
18:31
kinds of projects, unrestricted funding. It's
18:34
the best. Yeah. For all the reasons you're smiling.
18:37
Right. Exactly. It makes sense. And I think you
18:39
get some of the best work out of it, too. I don't
18:41
think you can run any kind of nonprofit the size
18:43
of Mural Arts without having different funding
18:45
streams and different funding structures, but
18:46
the unrestricted funding is important, and I
18:48
wish we had more of it. I wish they had more
18:50
of it. Yes. While I work there. Yes. You can
18:53
say it. So we're going to find you online. Oh
18:56
my God. Okay. Streets .com is the main place,
19:02
but websites might be dead. So, I mean, you can
19:04
find me on all social media platforms at streets
19:06
with an S D E P T like short for department and
19:09
go listen to the streets department podcast.
19:11
It's streets D E P T like short for department
19:13
podcast. You can find it. wherever you get your
19:16
podcasts. And don't forget to rate and review.
19:18
I'm going to rate and review your podcast too.
19:20
I don't think I've done that yet. I love it.
19:22
We'll link all those in the show notes. Yes.
19:24
Excellent. And we'll be right back with rapid
19:26
fire questions. And we're back with rapid fire
19:32
questions. This episode is going live Friday,
19:35
June 26th, National Mural Day is the last Saturday
19:39
of June. So if you're listening to this episode
19:42
drop date, that would be tomorrow. Do you have
19:45
any fun plans? For Mural Day? Yeah. I don't work
19:49
on the weekend. That's the best. No, I mean,
19:54
I'm dedicating the mural on that Friday. I'll
19:56
probably rest. I try to rest as much as I can.
19:58
Or, you know, plans with friends or my boyfriend
20:00
or something. No, I don't have any official plans
20:02
for Mural Day. That's my whole damn life. Mural
20:06
Day, Monday through Friday. Favorite place to
20:11
score a cheesesteak? Next. All right. No, I'm
20:18
vegetarian. Okay. When I was younger, there was
20:21
a place on Broad and South. I should face the
20:24
microphone. There was a place on Broad and South.
20:25
Was it Govinda's? They did really good fake cheesesteak.
20:28
Yeah. My go -to, I want to feel good food, is
20:31
Circles, just like Thai food. Circles Thai? Yeah.
20:34
From Northern Liberties? They have one in South
20:37
Philly, too. Oh, okay. If you could pick any
20:40
artist dead or alive to produce a portrait of
20:43
you, who would it be? I mean, the obvious answer
20:44
is, like, Basquiat. But, like, does that even
20:46
make sense? Oh, that's so hard. I knew these
20:52
questions were coming. I should have thought
20:54
harder. We switch them out. You never know what
20:57
you're getting. I'm going to say something weird.
20:59
Portrait, right? But it can be anything. Yes.
21:01
I would love to spend a day with Nina Simone.
21:07
And have her write a song about me as a portrait.
21:10
Oh, I love that. That's a lot to ask her. She
21:12
doesn't need to do that. Favorite Philadelphia
21:14
neighborhood? Okay, I'm from Fishtown. I live
21:17
in South Philly. I love walking through West
21:20
Philly. I mean, some of my best days are just
21:23
walking through West Philly, Baltimore Avenue.
21:26
I think West is best, unfortunately. Wow. What
21:28
am I doing right now? I don't know. I got one
21:31
more. Favorite mural outside of Philadelphia?
21:35
One that always sticks with me is I was in Boston
21:36
like 10 years ago. It's not there anymore, but
21:38
Os Chimos had a mural in Boston for an exhibition
21:41
they were hosting there. I love their brothers
21:44
from South America, I believe. You can talk over
21:48
me at this point if I'm ever wrong. But they
21:50
just had a great exhibition last year at the
21:51
Smithsonian. They come from a graffiti background.
21:55
They have murals all over the globe. Probably
21:57
no spoiler to say, like, Mural Arts has been
21:59
trying to work with them for many years to get
22:00
a mural here. I think it'll happen eventually,
22:02
but they're very picky, as they should be. I
22:04
love their work. Excellent. Conrad, thank you
22:07
so much for your time today. Thank you so much.
22:09
Pie in the sky. Pie in the sky. Everyone check
22:13
out Streets Department online and take a listen
22:15
to Conrad. It's cool as my podcast, y 'all. I
22:18
love it. And go like every reel. That I post
22:20
on social media. Yes. All right. Thanks, y 'all.
22:23
Thank you. Thanks for tuning in to Philly Has
22:37
Heart. Don't forget to follow, share, and spread
22:41
the love. Philly has heart. And art.