Latest / The Richard Sherman Podcast / Jeff Hafley on REBUILDING Dolphins, roster cuts, 2026 Draft Picks & NFL coaching philosophy | Sherman

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Jeff Hafley on REBUILDING Dolphins, roster cuts, 2026 Draft Picks & NFL coaching philosophy | Sherman · The Richard Sherman Podcast

0:05
Speaker 1: Welcome back to the Richard Sherman Podcast. We got an
0:07
Speaker 1: incredible guest today, one of my favorite coaches. He got
0:11
Speaker 1: to start as a dB coach with the Bucks, the Browns,
0:14
Speaker 1: then he was my dB coach in San Francisco, went
0:17
Speaker 1: back to college to Ohio State, then the head coach
0:20
Speaker 1: at Boston College, then the defensive coordinator for the Green
0:23
Speaker 1: Bay Packers, and now the head coach for the Miami Dolphins.
0:27
Speaker 1: I want to welcome the great defensive mind and a
0:29
Speaker 1: good friend of mine, Jeff Affley. Appreciate you joining me, brother.
0:32
Speaker 2: Thanks Sherman. It's good to have you on. Cool to
0:35
Speaker 2: see you doing this, even though you could probably still
0:37
Speaker 2: be playing or coaching, which you never take me up
0:41
Speaker 2: on my offers. But one day you will. One day
0:43
Speaker 2: I will day time yet not that time yet, But
0:46
Speaker 2: eventually you're gonna get the itch and you're gonna be
0:49
Speaker 2: off the podcast deal and you're gonna be the one
0:50
Speaker 2: being interviewed.
0:51
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, you're gonna be off your second Super Bowl.
0:53
Speaker 1: I'm gonna be like, yeah, this is probably about the
0:55
Speaker 1: time I should probably go ahead and dust it off
0:58
Speaker 1: my shoulders and get involved. You've coached college, You've worked
1:03
Speaker 1: as a coordinator in Green Band. Now you're leading the
1:05
Speaker 1: team in Miami. Which part of your journey do you
1:07
Speaker 1: think has has had the greatest impact, because it's it
1:10
Speaker 1: seems like such a quick trajectory, but there's so much
1:14
Speaker 1: work and so much work you've put in behind the scenes,
1:16
Speaker 1: so many man hours that you've put in, so much,
1:18
Speaker 1: so much dedication, so much lockey in and you're finally
1:21
Speaker 1: getting to see the fruits of your labor.
1:24
Speaker 2: I you know, I think I've been lucky with all
1:25
Speaker 2: the stops. You know. I think one thing that you know,
1:30
Speaker 2: I've been fortunate. It's been a long journey, and it's
1:32
Speaker 2: been you know, there's been some ups and downs, but
1:36
Speaker 2: you know, just coaching a position, for example, I think,
1:40
Speaker 2: you know, I learned I was able to coach from
1:41
Speaker 2: a young age, whether I was coaching you or Ronde
1:44
Speaker 2: or Revis. I've been around some really, really good players,
1:47
Speaker 2: and I learned how to connect with those players, and
1:49
Speaker 2: I learned how to pick their brains. And I've learned
1:52
Speaker 2: from really good players kind of like you and I
1:54
Speaker 2: would always have conversations. You'd ask me questions, I'd ask
1:57
Speaker 2: you questions. I took a lot of pride and always
2:00
Speaker 2: learning and never stop learning. And then I took a
2:03
Speaker 2: lot of pride in teaching. So I think, you know,
2:06
Speaker 2: being a position coach, I learned how to connect with players,
2:08
Speaker 2: I learned a game, I learned how to teach. I
2:12
Speaker 2: think that was huge. And then, you know, even I
2:14
Speaker 2: had to make that hard decision when I left the
2:16
Speaker 2: Niners after my time with you, I wanted to call
2:20
Speaker 2: plays and I was ready to call plays, and I think,
2:23
Speaker 2: you know, sometimes people get caught up and you know,
2:25
Speaker 2: staying in the NFL or being in a certain place
2:27
Speaker 2: or being a certain level. You know, I got fortunate
2:30
Speaker 2: to have the opportunity to go to Ohio State, and
2:32
Speaker 2: you know, I learned how to be really a coordinator
2:34
Speaker 2: there and then quickly I became a head coach. Right,
2:38
Speaker 2: So then I had to learn that And was I
2:40
Speaker 2: ready for that at thirty nine forty years old. Probably not.
2:45
Speaker 2: You know, you're not. You're not. You're not as ready
2:48
Speaker 2: as you think you are. But you kind of go
2:50
Speaker 2: through the you go through the years and you grow
2:52
Speaker 2: and you learn, and so then I kind of got
2:55
Speaker 2: prepared in that sense, right, and then I took I left.
2:58
Speaker 2: Obviously everybody kind of know was that story, and then
3:01
Speaker 2: I got to coordinate again, but this time in the NFL.
3:05
Speaker 2: But I think with the head coaching experience, I was
3:08
Speaker 2: even more prepared to do that, you know. And then
3:12
Speaker 2: obviously now I get a second goal round. But kind
3:14
Speaker 2: of a strange journey going back and forth. But I
3:19
Speaker 2: think I'm much more prepared this go around, you know,
3:22
Speaker 2: after those experiences. So it's been great.
3:26
Speaker 1: You've been around some of the what most would consider
3:28
Speaker 1: some of the best coaches in the National Football League
3:30
Speaker 1: in terms of head coaches. Uh with with Kyle Shanahan
3:33
Speaker 1: and Lafloor even at at Ohio State, you know, one
3:37
Speaker 1: of the best college head coaches. What do you think
3:40
Speaker 1: you've learned or what is one thing that you've taken
3:43
Speaker 1: from each of those coaches that's helped you in your journey.
3:47
Speaker 2: Yeah. I think with Kyle, just the accountability he held
3:50
Speaker 2: his staff to and how demanding he was. And I mean,
3:54
Speaker 2: I mean, you know, you had you had to know
3:55
Speaker 2: your stuff. I mean he'd come in and he'd challenged
3:58
Speaker 2: you in a good way, but he would challenge you.
4:01
Speaker 2: Do you want to see how convicted you were? You
4:03
Speaker 2: want to make sure you were on your stuff? And
4:05
Speaker 2: you know, I take I take a lot of that
4:07
Speaker 2: and just how he approaches the staff, and you know
4:10
Speaker 2: how demanding he is to make sure that you know
4:12
Speaker 2: he's preparing the players. You're preparing the players. They're preparing
4:15
Speaker 2: the players in a really high quality way, and that
4:20
Speaker 2: you're on your stuff. I always appreciated Kyle for that.
4:23
Speaker 2: He just he made sure you knew what you were
4:26
Speaker 2: doing and if you if you didn't, it was not
4:28
Speaker 2: going to be a very good day. And then I
4:31
Speaker 2: thought he was really good in front of the team.
4:33
Speaker 2: I thought the way that he coached the whole team,
4:35
Speaker 2: so we could see him coaching the offense, the defense,
4:38
Speaker 2: the special teams. He was up there, you remember in
4:40
Speaker 2: those meetings. I try to I tried to emulate that
4:44
Speaker 2: the best that I can, so when you're up in
4:47
Speaker 2: the front, you're not just a defensive guy or an
4:48
Speaker 2: offensive guy. I'm coaching everybody. I'm coaching the offensive players,
4:52
Speaker 2: I'm coaching the scheme on both sides of the ball.
4:53
Speaker 2: I'm coaching the special team. So the players can all
4:55
Speaker 2: feel me in that regard. I thought Matt's it's such
4:59
Speaker 2: a good job of you know, holding the players accountable.
5:02
Speaker 2: I think you know, Matt had a standard. He set
5:05
Speaker 2: the standard and he didn't deviate from it. And I
5:08
Speaker 2: think in this league a lot of times people kind
5:11
Speaker 2: of walk by some stuff, but Matt wouldn't do that.
5:14
Speaker 2: And at times you back, ay, Matt, that's just a
5:16
Speaker 2: little thing, but it wasn't to him, and I think
5:20
Speaker 2: he really taught me that lesson as I go through
5:22
Speaker 2: this now and I'm meeting with the team and I'm
5:24
Speaker 2: having these conversations that you know, the standard you walk
5:27
Speaker 2: by is a standard you set and you can't walk
5:29
Speaker 2: by anything, especially NATIONERM as we're trying to build this
5:32
Speaker 2: the right way and build the culture the way that
5:35
Speaker 2: we want it, especially that we're going to have a
5:37
Speaker 2: lot of really really young players. I just I think
5:40
Speaker 2: Matt did such a great job of that, and I
5:43
Speaker 2: think that's one of the reasons they've consistently won and
5:46
Speaker 2: been a playoff team. And then they'll take the next
5:48
Speaker 2: step soon.
5:50
Speaker 1: Yeah. That takes me to my next point about what
5:53
Speaker 1: you're walking into in Miami, because it seems like you
5:56
Speaker 1: guys have made such huge, monumental foundational changes, but in
6:02
Speaker 1: terms of restarting and establishing a new culture, it's it's
6:07
Speaker 1: it was necessary. It was necessary to get some of
6:09
Speaker 1: the the you know, the their big money, big name guys.
6:12
Speaker 1: But in order to start the culture that you you
6:15
Speaker 1: want to achieve, sometimes you got to make hard decisions
6:18
Speaker 1: to get that, to get that started. So you guys
6:21
Speaker 1: got rid of Tyreek, you got rid of to a
6:23
Speaker 1: tongue of Ailoa. What went into those decisions as you
6:27
Speaker 1: as you started to see the kind of landscape of
6:30
Speaker 1: the Miami Dolphins and what what was necessary?
6:33
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, you know, obviously John, Eric and I
6:35
Speaker 2: had a lot of conversations about that, and you know,
6:38
Speaker 2: it's truly the situation that we walked into. I think
6:40
Speaker 2: there was there was over thirty three free agents on
6:43
Speaker 2: the on the roster when we got here. The cap
6:45
Speaker 2: situation was really difficult. So we we had to get
6:48
Speaker 2: in a healthier spot as far as the cap goes.
6:51
Speaker 2: So so we had to make some really hard decision
6:53
Speaker 2: with some really good players who I have a ton
6:55
Speaker 2: of respect for and they're still going to have a
6:57
Speaker 2: lot of success in this league. We just weren't in
6:59
Speaker 2: the situation suation where we were able to keep them
7:01
Speaker 2: as we build this thing going forward, you know, so
7:05
Speaker 2: hard decisions are made really good players had to leave
7:08
Speaker 2: the team, and now we find ourselves in a position
7:11
Speaker 2: where we just drafted thirteen players. I mean, just think
7:14
Speaker 2: about that. I mean Saturday, I felt like we were
7:16
Speaker 2: picking every five minutes in there. But what does it
7:20
Speaker 2: do it? You know, we're going to be young. I
7:23
Speaker 2: mean we have some really we have some really good pieces,
7:25
Speaker 2: don't get me wrong. I mean we got some vets
7:27
Speaker 2: on the team that you know, are as good as
7:29
Speaker 2: players as I've been around, and there are awesome people
7:31
Speaker 2: and they have great leadership qualities. But with that, I mean,
7:34
Speaker 2: we'll probably be one of the youngest, if not the
7:37
Speaker 2: youngest team in the National Football League with all the
7:39
Speaker 2: rookies that we are going to bring in, And you know,
7:42
Speaker 2: will that be hard? Shure? I think playing a lot
7:44
Speaker 2: of rookies is difficult at times. But at the same time,
7:48
Speaker 2: we get a chance to develop those players, and we
7:50
Speaker 2: get a chance to teach them and have them grow
7:53
Speaker 2: up and teach them the way that we want to
7:55
Speaker 2: do things. As we build this thing for the future,
7:57
Speaker 2: I think it's going to be about the foundation and
8:00
Speaker 2: what we want that to look like, and in some
8:03
Speaker 2: ways it will be It will be nice to start fresh.
8:05
Speaker 1: Like that, no question about it. I mean, because you
8:08
Speaker 1: don't have the kind of skeletons and ghosts of the
8:11
Speaker 1: past regime and the past uh staff kind of kind
8:15
Speaker 1: of still hanging and lingering around the building, for whatever
8:18
Speaker 1: that's worth. But you did bring him, Malik Willis. You
8:21
Speaker 1: brought him in. You guys made him your your number
8:24
Speaker 1: one quarterback. You got to see him kind of develop
8:26
Speaker 1: and grow in Green Bay. What what did it mean
8:29
Speaker 1: to kind of bring him in and be able to
8:31
Speaker 1: target him early on and know that you you had
8:33
Speaker 1: a guy that you can trust and believe in going forward.
8:36
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think you know this because you know
8:39
Speaker 2: you're around the league for so long. It's so important
8:41
Speaker 2: that when you when you get any free agent, that
8:44
Speaker 2: you know exactly what you're getting, right. I mean, you've
8:47
Speaker 2: been in locker rooms. I've been in locker rooms where
8:49
Speaker 2: you watch tape, you fall in love with the tape,
8:51
Speaker 2: and you get a guy and he might not fit
8:54
Speaker 2: your locker room, he might not fit your culture, he
8:56
Speaker 2: might not fit you. We people know what Moleek's like
9:01
Speaker 2: as a player in a small sample size. He's went
9:03
Speaker 2: out in the two years that I was with him,
9:05
Speaker 2: and he did a really nice job in some very
9:07
Speaker 2: big moments in some big games. I got to see
9:10
Speaker 2: him in practice every day, so he was our scout
9:13
Speaker 2: team quarterback. So I was actually I communicated with him
9:16
Speaker 2: more than I communicated with Jordan, because each week I
9:18
Speaker 2: wanted a certain look. I wanted him to play a
9:20
Speaker 2: certain way I wanted him. I wanted him to be
9:22
Speaker 2: free and play the game because I didn't want to
9:24
Speaker 2: tell him who to throw to. But there are weeks
9:26
Speaker 2: I wanted him to stay in the pocket because that's
9:28
Speaker 2: quarterback we're going to play. There's weeks when I wanted
9:30
Speaker 2: him to run around and scramble. There are weeks where
9:32
Speaker 2: I wanted him to operate in a certain manner. So
9:34
Speaker 2: him and I developed a really good relationship. And then
9:37
Speaker 2: obviously I got to see him play. And he's competitive,
9:39
Speaker 2: he's tough, he can throw the ball, he's accurate. He's
9:42
Speaker 2: really accurate down the field, and he's really athletic. I mean,
9:46
Speaker 2: he's strong, he can make plays with his feet, and
9:48
Speaker 2: when he breaks the pocket, he's really accurate. And then
9:52
Speaker 2: on top of all that, I love the person on
9:56
Speaker 2: the field. Off the field, he's got this unique way
9:59
Speaker 2: that he leads he's not this outspoken, loud guy, but
10:03
Speaker 2: people kind of gravitate to him. So to get a
10:06
Speaker 2: quarterback like that, which is the key position of our
10:10
Speaker 2: team that you trust as we build this foundation and
10:13
Speaker 2: we have a type of leader that we want, I
10:15
Speaker 2: think that's.
10:15
Speaker 1: Huge, no questions, it's colossal, especially when you talk about
10:20
Speaker 1: the leader of your team and establishing a culture and
10:23
Speaker 1: having people buy in. If the guy who touches the
10:26
Speaker 1: ball every play is bought in, everybody else usually follows.
10:29
Speaker 1: And do you think as a head coach your approach
10:32
Speaker 1: is different than a coordinator, because in Green Bay, you
10:36
Speaker 1: guys grew from year one to year two. You got
10:38
Speaker 1: better in terms of the rankings down the board. Your
10:41
Speaker 1: players spoke very highly of you, and you talked about
10:44
Speaker 1: your relationship with players and the input that you accept
10:47
Speaker 1: from those players. And I think that has been something
10:49
Speaker 1: I always respected and admired about you, is that you
10:52
Speaker 1: do sit and listen. You know, you'll sit there and
10:55
Speaker 1: listen to a player's opinion and have the conversation. Unlike
10:59
Speaker 1: there's some coaches that are saying, hey, it's my way
11:02
Speaker 1: or the highway, Like I may hear you out, but
11:04
Speaker 1: I'm not going to change anything based on those conversations.
11:06
Speaker 1: But if you listen to Xavier McKinney, you look at
11:09
Speaker 1: listen to Keshawn Nixon, Quay, Michael Parsons and how they
11:13
Speaker 1: talk about you. I think that had an incredible impact
11:15
Speaker 1: on those guys. So do you try to keep that
11:17
Speaker 1: approach as a head coach?
11:19
Speaker 2: Yeah? And and and for sure, especially you know, maybe
11:22
Speaker 2: not so much with a rookie who's just trying to
11:24
Speaker 2: figure it out, but like like you, for example, right
11:26
Speaker 2: like after after plays, I'd run up to you and
11:29
Speaker 2: be like, hey, what'd you see because I'd want to
11:32
Speaker 2: you might have done something that you know, by the
11:34
Speaker 2: letter of the law wasn't correct. But I would ask
11:37
Speaker 2: you what you see, and I'd ask you why, And
11:39
Speaker 2: a lot of times you would give me a really
11:40
Speaker 2: good explanation and I'd kind of smirk and be like, yeah,
11:43
Speaker 2: that makes sense. And then there's sometimes be like, okay,
11:45
Speaker 2: but please don't do that again because I'm going to
11:47
Speaker 2: hear from solid Kyle and it's just, hey, you know,
11:50
Speaker 2: we can't be doing that, but I do want I'm
11:53
Speaker 2: always asking why. I want to know what people see.
11:56
Speaker 2: I want to know what they think because Ultimately, I
11:58
Speaker 2: want I've always wanted players to be comfortable within the scheme, right,
12:01
Speaker 2: and it's like, sure, what do you think on third
12:03
Speaker 2: and seven? Coverage wise? What do you think of this
12:05
Speaker 2: wide out? And what do you within a series? And
12:08
Speaker 2: let's go have a conversation and try to get it called.
12:10
Speaker 2: I mean, you're the one out there playing, so it's
12:12
Speaker 2: as long as it fits within the scheme. Like I
12:14
Speaker 2: like all the calls. Like if I asked Micah, like, hey,
12:17
Speaker 2: where do you want to line up? I can create
12:19
Speaker 2: a one on one with the guard to tackle, Like
12:21
Speaker 2: who do you want to line up against? I mean
12:23
Speaker 2: he's gonna have more ownership than it. He's gonna want
12:26
Speaker 2: to go out there and he's gonna have success whatever
12:28
Speaker 2: he does anyway. But it's those conversations that we have
12:31
Speaker 2: or you know, Quai, I want you to pick this
12:33
Speaker 2: guard or this running back, Like what do you think
12:36
Speaker 2: on this one? I like these three calls? How would
12:38
Speaker 2: you rank him? I like him all so I'm gonna
12:40
Speaker 2: but if a player knows that he's got some input
12:42
Speaker 2: and he has some ownership, he's gonna put his best
12:45
Speaker 2: foot forward. And I want guys to play the game
12:47
Speaker 2: like that that's that's really really important to me.
12:51
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14:02
Speaker 1: And you talked about how young your team is and
14:05
Speaker 1: how drastic there's big changes being made. I think there's
14:08
Speaker 1: a team in your division, the New England Patriots, who
14:10
Speaker 1: had a similar amount of turnover and a new staff
14:13
Speaker 1: and everything, and they were able to have some success
14:15
Speaker 1: early on with you, with young guys just early establishing
14:19
Speaker 1: their culture, a lot of buy in from the guys,
14:21
Speaker 1: maybe a few select veterans here and there, you know,
14:24
Speaker 1: some journeymen who were just able to put together a
14:26
Speaker 1: really good season. And and does that give you a
14:28
Speaker 1: little bit of confidence of what's possible within the division,
14:33
Speaker 1: even though you know people may have a little bit
14:35
Speaker 1: lower expectations just because of the cap situation. You lost
14:38
Speaker 1: so many veterans, et cetera, et cetera. Do you still
14:41
Speaker 1: feel like, hey, we'll have a chance to battle and
14:43
Speaker 1: compete each and every week.
14:44
Speaker 2: Well, I think, I mean, just like anything you would do,
14:47
Speaker 2: I mean any situation I want to go in. I
14:49
Speaker 2: want to win in everything that we do. You know,
14:53
Speaker 2: I think the expectations for right now or like you
14:55
Speaker 2: talked about, we have to build this foundation and build
14:58
Speaker 2: this culture the right way. And I know people don't
15:01
Speaker 2: want to hear like me say that, but I think
15:04
Speaker 2: that's really important. And then you and I always talked
15:06
Speaker 2: about competition, like you always talk I remember to this
15:09
Speaker 2: day you always talked about to me when we first
15:12
Speaker 2: got to San Francisco, we didn't quite have the competition
15:15
Speaker 2: that you did in Seattle, and you talked about how
15:16
Speaker 2: those best teams and the best defense is you have
15:18
Speaker 2: to create that competition to push guys to improve every
15:22
Speaker 2: single day. We need to create that by drafting these
15:25
Speaker 2: players and signing some free agents. We need to create
15:28
Speaker 2: that competitive way right now. And I think that's really important.
15:32
Speaker 2: And then the other thing for me, it's going to
15:34
Speaker 2: be I just I want to play harder than everybody
15:37
Speaker 2: that we play against and if they're not living up
15:39
Speaker 2: to that standard, there's going to be someone else in
15:41
Speaker 2: back that I'm going to put in. So as long
15:43
Speaker 2: as we start to do that, and we play hard
15:45
Speaker 2: and we play smart and we coach well, then yeah,
15:48
Speaker 2: I want to win in everything we can. What's that
15:50
Speaker 2: going to look like, you're one, I'm not sure, you know,
15:52
Speaker 2: but I'm excited to build it the right way, and
15:56
Speaker 2: i want this thing to be built so we can
15:59
Speaker 2: have sustain, sustained success over time. And that's really part
16:05
Speaker 2: of the reason I liked his job so much is because,
16:08
Speaker 2: you know, ownership has been awesome. Working with Sully's been awesome.
16:11
Speaker 2: I think we have a shared vision, and you know,
16:14
Speaker 2: I'm excited to start building it that way.
16:17
Speaker 1: You guys end up drafting thirteen players, like you said,
16:20
Speaker 1: and I'm sure you know, the the draft boards kind
16:23
Speaker 1: of fluct you out way throughout that day. You know,
16:25
Speaker 1: there's obviously surprises here and there, but you guys were
16:28
Speaker 1: able to get Caden Proctor, Chris Johnson, Jacob Rodriguez, Caleb Douglas,
16:34
Speaker 1: which one of these guys, you know, out of thirteen guys,
16:36
Speaker 1: was probably the most surprising. Where you guys were like, man,
16:39
Speaker 1: we weren't expecting him to be there, and he was
16:41
Speaker 1: and it worked out.
16:42
Speaker 2: Oh it's good. Probably if one guy I didn't think
16:48
Speaker 2: would be there when we took him was probably Rodriguez.
16:50
Speaker 2: I would have thought I would have been thought. I
16:52
Speaker 2: thought he would have been picked sooner, just his college tape.
16:57
Speaker 2: I think the upside. I think the potential. I think
17:00
Speaker 2: leadership capability, the playmaking ability, the production. I thought he
17:05
Speaker 2: would have been gone by that pick. So he was
17:07
Speaker 2: when he was still there that one. We were all
17:09
Speaker 2: pretty excited about that pick. I mean you could you
17:12
Speaker 2: could even say the same. I mean, I know for
17:15
Speaker 2: us like Procter, I mean that when he was still
17:19
Speaker 2: available for us to pick, then when we picked, because
17:21
Speaker 2: we moved back and got two extra picks, and he
17:23
Speaker 2: was going to be the guy we took at eleven,
17:25
Speaker 2: but we got him at twelve with two extra picks
17:27
Speaker 2: on top of it, which I thought was an awesome
17:28
Speaker 2: job by John Eric with his size and his potential
17:32
Speaker 2: and how young he is. He's a guy that we
17:35
Speaker 2: could be looking at down the road and people say, Wow,
17:38
Speaker 2: how'd that guy get drafted at twelve at a premium
17:41
Speaker 2: position with how young he is, how big he is,
17:43
Speaker 2: and how talented he is. That one I think people
17:47
Speaker 2: might look back on in a few years and try
17:49
Speaker 2: to figure out what made him fall to right.
17:52
Speaker 1: I think there's so much, you know, so much guesswork
17:56
Speaker 1: in this draft because he's are human beings and you
17:58
Speaker 1: just never know how they're going to react to the lead.
18:00
Speaker 1: But I think a lot of that and a lot
18:02
Speaker 1: of these projections kind of kind of get lost in that.
18:04
Speaker 1: You know, they get away from the tape. So you
18:06
Speaker 1: see Jacob right Reguez, his tape looked incredible, but then
18:09
Speaker 1: you get into the nuance and they're like, well you
18:10
Speaker 1: ran this forty times? His ten yards split is this?
18:13
Speaker 1: And it's like his tape looks like he could be
18:15
Speaker 1: one of the best linebackers in the National Football League.
18:17
Speaker 1: When do we get away from that?
18:19
Speaker 2: Like but no, but you're sure you're right though, But
18:22
Speaker 2: like if you look, like if you look at the
18:24
Speaker 2: guys we drafted, like just take a look at that
18:26
Speaker 2: list and who we drafted on defense, like to try
18:30
Speaker 2: up your ally. They're smart guys who love football. And
18:32
Speaker 2: you know how we know they love football because watch
18:34
Speaker 2: how hard they all play. I mean, you're talking about
18:37
Speaker 2: some tough dudes. They're productive dudes, even like we took
18:40
Speaker 2: the safety pretty late in the draft Taff from Texas.
18:43
Speaker 2: I mean, you look at his production, how hard he plays,
18:46
Speaker 2: and how instinctive he is, and the type of person
18:49
Speaker 2: that he is. I just I think he did a
18:51
Speaker 2: really great job with drafting competitive, smart, productive players who
18:56
Speaker 2: the tape says they're already good football players.
19:00
Speaker 1: Yeah. I was just about to ask you something. You
19:01
Speaker 1: pretty much answered my question. But I was going to
19:03
Speaker 1: ask what traits were you looking at in these players
19:06
Speaker 1: and what similarities did they have? But like you just said,
19:08
Speaker 1: it's production, it's dog, it's you know that.
19:11
Speaker 2: Yeah, I want guys who love football, and like every
19:13
Speaker 2: time I want tough guys who love football, and every
19:16
Speaker 2: time we talk about well, how do you figure that out?
19:18
Speaker 2: I can't figure that out on a zoom and I
19:19
Speaker 2: can't figure that out if I spend a thirty visit
19:22
Speaker 2: for an hour in my office. The way I can
19:23
Speaker 2: figure it out is when I turn on the tape.
19:25
Speaker 2: How hard does he play? Does he run to the ball,
19:27
Speaker 2: What does it look like in the fourth quarter when
19:29
Speaker 2: he's tired? How competitive is the guy? Is he one
19:32
Speaker 2: of these guys putting his hands up and pointing at
19:34
Speaker 2: a teammate. Is he clapping when he makes a mistake
19:37
Speaker 2: and looking all around? Does he take the next playoff?
19:40
Speaker 2: Is he you know? Is he turning stuff down?
19:43
Speaker 1: Like?
19:43
Speaker 2: Those are the guys that is we build it for this.
19:45
Speaker 2: I don't want that. It's just I want the guys
19:48
Speaker 2: who are going to be competitive on every down and
19:51
Speaker 2: give everything that they have. I mean, shoot, man, you
19:54
Speaker 2: were coming off of your achilles and you were running
19:56
Speaker 2: on the backside. You know, I still tell people of
19:58
Speaker 2: those stories. Man you were, you were running on the backside,
20:01
Speaker 2: and I mean like like you were ten years earlier.
20:05
Speaker 2: I mean I remember one of your first one on ones,
20:07
Speaker 2: like you're not ready to go, and I remember you
20:09
Speaker 2: got beat on a route. But man, the coolest part
20:12
Speaker 2: in the world is you put your head down and
20:13
Speaker 2: you just finished because you didn't care. Man, That's who
20:16
Speaker 2: you were. And you know, not to make this about you,
20:19
Speaker 2: but those are the type of guys that you win with.
20:23
Speaker 1: After the season's all said and done, you know, you're
20:25
Speaker 1: in February, We're fast forward and down the line. What
20:28
Speaker 1: do you want people to say about the team and
20:30
Speaker 1: the season? Your team just had.
20:31
Speaker 2: I want to see I want to see one all
20:33
Speaker 2: the things that I talked about when they turn on
20:35
Speaker 2: the tape. I want them to see a bunch of
20:36
Speaker 2: guys that fly around, that play for each other, that
20:39
Speaker 2: play smart, physical, tough football, and I want to see
20:41
Speaker 2: improvement throughout the year. We got to be playing our
20:44
Speaker 2: best football in the last game of the season. That
20:46
Speaker 2: that's going to be so important, you know, and that
20:50
Speaker 2: we celebrate some of those, you know, successes that we
20:53
Speaker 2: have along the way, understanding that we're building this thing,
20:57
Speaker 2: and those are the things that are really really important
21:00
Speaker 2: to me.
21:01
Speaker 1: It sounds like great things to talk about. Now. We
21:04
Speaker 1: talked about your staff a bit off camera, but you're
21:07
Speaker 1: able to bring some of the guys from Green Bay
21:10
Speaker 1: with you Downard and Dugan, and you talked about the
21:13
Speaker 1: time that you spent with them, and I think you
21:15
Speaker 1: brought an offensive line assistant from maybe Boston College with you.
21:20
Speaker 1: Talk about the way those relationships have manifested and how
21:23
Speaker 1: important that is to continuity and just you know who
21:27
Speaker 1: you are as a coach and a person.
21:29
Speaker 2: Yeah, one, I think you win with people. Right, We're
21:33
Speaker 2: going to go through We're going to go through adversity,
21:36
Speaker 2: it's coming, right, you're either in it or it's coming.
21:39
Speaker 2: It's going to happen. And when you go through hard moments,
21:42
Speaker 2: I think you got to have people you trust, and
21:44
Speaker 2: you got to have people that you know how they're
21:46
Speaker 2: going to respond when bad things happen to get through them.
21:50
Speaker 2: And when you go through the fire with people, it's
21:52
Speaker 2: always nice to know who you're dealing with, so you know.
21:55
Speaker 2: And Sean Duggan, who's our defensive coordinator. I met him
21:59
Speaker 2: at Ohio State. He was he was my graduate assistant
22:02
Speaker 2: and he sat next to me in the booth. And
22:04
Speaker 2: when I tell you, like, after spending one year with him,
22:07
Speaker 2: like he's a guy that in between series I'd ask
22:09
Speaker 2: him the questions right, really super impressive, super smart. Played
22:12
Speaker 2: the position at Boston College. So when I got the
22:14
Speaker 2: BC job, I was like, he's definitely coming with me.
22:17
Speaker 2: He was a captain there, made him a linebacker coach,
22:19
Speaker 2: really good with the players, was still learning defense, and
22:23
Speaker 2: by my fourth year there, I named him my defensive coordinator.
22:26
Speaker 2: So obviously a ton of respect for him and his knowledge.
22:29
Speaker 2: I saw him as a rising star. And then when
22:31
Speaker 2: I got when I left and took the Green Bay job.
22:33
Speaker 2: I told Matt. I was like, Matt, we're going to
22:36
Speaker 2: hire the staff. And then at the end, I was like,
22:38
Speaker 2: I need this guy, like he's I got to get him.
22:40
Speaker 2: We'll name him the assistant linebacker coach, whatever we need,
22:43
Speaker 2: but I need this guy. He's going to be a star.
22:45
Speaker 2: And then Campy Anthony Campanell, he was my linebacker coach.
22:47
Speaker 2: He left went to the Jags be there coordinator and
22:50
Speaker 2: I said, Matt, we got to promote Shawn. And by
22:52
Speaker 2: that point Matt was like, absolutely, this guy's a stud.
22:55
Speaker 2: So he named Sean linebacker coach. And then when I
22:58
Speaker 2: got the Miami job, you know, Matt interviewed him for
23:02
Speaker 2: the coordinator job, and you know, I totally get that.
23:05
Speaker 2: And if he named Sean the coordinator, understand he gets
23:08
Speaker 2: to coordinate the Green Bay Packers. And he didn't. So
23:11
Speaker 2: I asked Matt if, obviously, you know, I could take
23:14
Speaker 2: him with me and be my coordinator. And Matt wasn't
23:16
Speaker 2: going to hold him back to do that. So I
23:18
Speaker 2: got a chance to bring Sean, which is so huge
23:20
Speaker 2: for me because he's been with me for eight straight years.
23:24
Speaker 2: He knows the scheme inside and out. He knows how
23:26
Speaker 2: I think he knows what I want. So what he's
23:29
Speaker 2: done now is he's organized it all for me. He's
23:31
Speaker 2: presenting in front of the defense so I can go
23:33
Speaker 2: in with the offense be the head coach right now.
23:36
Speaker 2: We'll sit down and we'll talk, we'll meet, and then
23:38
Speaker 2: once training camp hits, I'll take it back over. But
23:41
Speaker 2: that allows me to be the head coach right now,
23:42
Speaker 2: and I think, I think that's huge. I'm sitting in
23:45
Speaker 2: the quarterback meetings, I'm sitting on the offense installs because
23:48
Speaker 2: what I learned this go around is I got to
23:50
Speaker 2: know everything that's going on. I just can't be the
23:52
Speaker 2: defensive coach. I don't want the players just to see
23:55
Speaker 2: me as the defensive coordinator. I want them to see
23:57
Speaker 2: me and feel me as the head coach. And I
23:59
Speaker 2: want to know. I want to know all the scheme.
24:01
Speaker 2: So he's really allowed me to do that. And like
24:04
Speaker 2: I said, I think he's a star and I'm very
24:06
Speaker 2: grateful that he's with me. And then getting Ryan Downer.
24:09
Speaker 2: Ryan was my dB coach in Green Bay and he
24:12
Speaker 2: was with me in Cleveland too when I was with
24:14
Speaker 2: the Browns. He was one of the assistants we actually
24:16
Speaker 2: assure him. We had Aaron Glenn was my assistant dB coach,
24:19
Speaker 2: Bobby Babbage was my assistant dB coach, and Ryan Down
24:22
Speaker 2: of us. We had a really good dB group for
24:25
Speaker 2: that year. So then Ryan, you know, Jonathan Gannon, wanted
24:29
Speaker 2: to bring his dB coach and some guys on his staff,
24:33
Speaker 2: which Matt told me. He's like, hey, you want Down,
24:35
Speaker 2: I said, want him? Are you kidding me? This is
24:38
Speaker 2: this is unbelievable because now I got the guy that
24:40
Speaker 2: I've been with and sat in all those meetings for
24:42
Speaker 2: two years. Now I'm totally I mean, he knows exactly
24:46
Speaker 2: how I want it, he knows the details, he's a stud,
24:49
Speaker 2: and I don't have to sit in. So I got
24:50
Speaker 2: the linebacker guy, the dB guy, which has freed me
24:53
Speaker 2: up so much. And Ryan will be a coordinator down
24:56
Speaker 2: the road here pretty soon too. He's a great, great
24:58
Speaker 2: human and he's a really good football coach. And then
25:01
Speaker 2: Matt Applebaum. He was my on line coach at Boston
25:04
Speaker 2: College with NFL experience, so to get him as the
25:07
Speaker 2: assistant online coach is huge. And then I also brought
25:10
Speaker 2: Al Washington. I was the coaching at Notre Dame. He
25:14
Speaker 2: was my linebacker coach at Ohio State. Al's got an
25:17
Speaker 2: edge to him. Man, He'll get those guys run through
25:20
Speaker 2: a wall. And that's what you need. Oh it is.
25:23
Speaker 2: It is like him in camp. He are a lot
25:26
Speaker 2: of like two of my favorite guys, but really good coach,
25:29
Speaker 2: awesome person, and he'll get those linebackers playing run through people,
25:33
Speaker 2: which is what we need.
25:34
Speaker 1: And then you you, you get to retain our guy
25:37
Speaker 1: Bobby Slowick, Yeah, and promote him the coordinator, which yeah.
25:40
Speaker 1: I love to see his ascension. I love to see
25:42
Speaker 1: all these guys get the respect. He's such a great
25:45
Speaker 1: offensive line and a brilliant, brilliant man. How cool was
25:49
Speaker 1: that you know, somebody, another person that you've kind of
25:51
Speaker 1: come full circle with.
25:53
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's huge. I mean, think about it. Bobby was
25:55
Speaker 2: coaching defense with us those first couple of years. It
25:58
Speaker 2: was like me and him and Salah in the room.
26:00
Speaker 2: He so he knows all the defensive rules. I mean,
26:02
Speaker 2: you know him. He's so smart. I mean and as
26:05
Speaker 2: a person, I mean, I mean what a stud is
26:08
Speaker 2: a guy? So to have that on the other side
26:11
Speaker 2: of the ball, knowing how detailed he's going to be organized,
26:14
Speaker 2: He's going to be I mean he's been trained by arguably,
26:18
Speaker 2: you know, one of the best play callers in the
26:19
Speaker 2: last however many years, and just to have that in
26:23
Speaker 2: the room and listen to him do it, I mean,
26:25
Speaker 2: it's really it's really cool to be back with him
26:27
Speaker 2: and have a guy I truly trust on the other
26:29
Speaker 2: side of the ball. I mean, I even think when
26:31
Speaker 2: I coached Agains him when he was at Houston. I mean,
26:33
Speaker 2: he did a really good job there. I mean, he
26:35
Speaker 2: really did. And I know things don't always work out,
26:38
Speaker 2: but he's a guy who deserves another shot. And shoot,
26:42
Speaker 2: he interviewed for head jobs after his first or second
26:44
Speaker 2: year there, and you know, I'm hopeful that he'll have
26:47
Speaker 2: success here and he'll have a chance because I think
26:49
Speaker 2: he'd be an awesome head coach as well.
26:51
Speaker 1: I think sometimes when you when you get to play
26:53
Speaker 1: without the burden of expectation, it like frees you. You know,
26:56
Speaker 1: it frees a lot of people to really be who
26:58
Speaker 1: they are. I think sometimes the burden of expectation people don't.
27:02
Speaker 1: They feel constrained. So I look forward to getting to
27:04
Speaker 1: see him kind of go out there and be free
27:06
Speaker 1: and coaches tail off and watch guys grow and mature.
27:12
Speaker 1: Another question I got, because you're moving out of the booth.
27:14
Speaker 1: He's moving out of the booth back to the field.
27:17
Speaker 1: You can't be a head coach in the booth. How's
27:19
Speaker 1: that feel?
27:20
Speaker 2: Well you probably don't remember this, but Salo wanted me
27:24
Speaker 2: up in the booth when you were that year in
27:27
Speaker 2: San Francisco, and you came and you were like, no,
27:29
Speaker 2: I need you to be on the field, No way.
27:32
Speaker 2: So I had to be on the field there, which
27:34
Speaker 2: was which was great. It would be fun to be
27:38
Speaker 2: back on the field. Honestly, the last few years, I
27:40
Speaker 2: just felt I felt it was best for who we
27:43
Speaker 2: had on defense for me to be up there. See it,
27:45
Speaker 2: take my notes, be calm about it. There were times
27:49
Speaker 2: I wanted to be down on the field, like there
27:50
Speaker 2: were moments, especially when adversity hits and you want to
27:53
Speaker 2: get get your hands on them and be with them.
27:56
Speaker 2: So there's pluses and minuses. But I'm excited to get
27:59
Speaker 2: back I got down the field. It'll be fun. I'll
28:02
Speaker 2: keep my cool and be level headed and and uh
28:05
Speaker 2: and and try not to cause any problems down there.
28:08
Speaker 2: But I'll never forget. I was all fired up to
28:10
Speaker 2: go to the booth and I said, Salah.
28:13
Speaker 1: Sure wants me now, so hold him down here.
28:15
Speaker 2: Now I'm going down. I gotta be with him on
28:17
Speaker 2: the sideline.
28:18
Speaker 1: I appreciate that. I appreciate you you doing that for me.
28:22
Speaker 1: Are you going to because because right now, I mean,
28:24
Speaker 1: I guess most of the league is analytics guys, but
28:26
Speaker 1: you know there's still a couple of old school, you
28:28
Speaker 1: know guys that don't really live by the analytics that way.
28:32
Speaker 1: But are you gonna be an analytics guy? Are you
28:34
Speaker 1: gonna be a look at the page and see should
28:36
Speaker 1: you go for it on fourth and one? Or are
28:38
Speaker 1: you gonna be a feel by the you know, feel
28:41
Speaker 1: good guy.
28:42
Speaker 2: I'm gonna want to know. I'm gonna want to know
28:44
Speaker 2: what the analytics says, but I'm gonna go on. I'm
28:46
Speaker 2: gonna go based on what I think is best for
28:48
Speaker 2: our team in the moment in the game. I think
28:51
Speaker 2: just you know, for some guys, just going off the
28:53
Speaker 2: paper and off the numbers is fine. I just no,
28:57
Speaker 2: I want to. I want to. I want to get
28:58
Speaker 2: a feel for the game. That's kind of how I
29:01
Speaker 2: ended up my last couple of years at PC. Just
29:04
Speaker 2: tell me what the analytics say and then let me
29:06
Speaker 2: make a decision based on the flow of the game,
29:07
Speaker 2: how I feel, and what the team needs for me
29:10
Speaker 2: in the moment. I mean there's some moments, man, when
29:13
Speaker 2: you decide not to go for it, your team's going
29:15
Speaker 2: to kind of look at you sideways too. And when
29:17
Speaker 2: those guys are telling you to go forward at times
29:19
Speaker 2: it's you know they're going to get it for you. You
29:21
Speaker 2: got to make some decisions like that too. And then
29:23
Speaker 2: there's others where they're going to say go from like,
29:25
Speaker 2: no way, guys, chill out. We got to pump the
29:26
Speaker 2: ball right here. But I got to make those decisions
29:29
Speaker 2: on what's best for each individual game and how I feel.
29:33
Speaker 1: Yeah, you got guys like Dan Campbell and Ben Johnson
29:36
Speaker 1: who are kind of like becoming the poster boys for
29:38
Speaker 1: just like a different kind of NFL where these used
29:41
Speaker 1: to be just a guaranteed punt situation. With these guys,
29:44
Speaker 1: you just like, you really never know. Dan Campbell might
29:47
Speaker 1: just go for it and might just say, screw the rules,
29:49
Speaker 1: screw the analytics. It's fourth and three. We could tie it,
29:53
Speaker 1: but we want to win and we're going for it. It's
29:55
Speaker 1: worked out sometimes and at times it hasn't but you
29:57
Speaker 1: know that you live by what you live by.
30:00
Speaker 2: Defense on the on the plus thirty to start a
30:03
Speaker 2: series either so if we can punt it, we're gonna
30:06
Speaker 2: punt it. It's already hard enough show. And we get
30:08
Speaker 2: the ball on the thirty five. Now on a touchback,
30:10
Speaker 2: so I mean, you get one first down, and now
30:12
Speaker 2: with these kickers, one first down, one explosive play is
30:15
Speaker 2: three points. So I mean, it's crazy.
30:19
Speaker 1: It's really crazy. It's really crazy, and everybody's trying to
30:21
Speaker 1: find a loophole in it a way to kick. You know,
30:23
Speaker 1: the NFL took out the little small loophole of kicking
30:27
Speaker 1: it out of bounds at the certain spot, and you know,
30:29
Speaker 1: but it just sucks. They taking they're taking away great defense.
30:34
Speaker 1: Like you want to score points. You've done everything to
30:36
Speaker 1: handicap the defense. Now you're just saying, hey, offense, here's
30:39
Speaker 1: fifteen free yards. Well you don't even have to earn
30:41
Speaker 1: them anymore. This is just for you guys. But and
30:45
Speaker 1: now kickers can kick it from this kick it sixty
30:47
Speaker 1: five yard field goal.
30:48
Speaker 2: So it's like, just get it first down, you get
30:50
Speaker 2: a first down and got a chance.
30:52
Speaker 1: That's crazy. Last question, and then I'll let you go.
30:56
Speaker 1: I've had I don't want to hold you all day.
30:59
Speaker 1: But we've had some great dvs on the show the
31:03
Speaker 1: past few weeks. We had Charles Woodson, we had Rod Woodson,
31:06
Speaker 1: we had Champ Bailey, We've had Prime. We'll have Prime again,
31:10
Speaker 1: I'm sure. But who is like you're a a as
31:13
Speaker 1: a football mind, as great defensive coach. Who's your top
31:17
Speaker 1: five dbs of all time?
31:19
Speaker 2: Oh gosh, how about I just named it to three?
31:22
Speaker 2: How about I named how many? Here's the three I'm
31:24
Speaker 2: gonna name Darrelle Reeves, Rendez Barber, Richard Sherman because I
31:29
Speaker 2: got a chance to work with all three, so I
31:30
Speaker 2: know exactly what it looked like. And this is take you.
31:34
Speaker 2: We'll take you out of the equation sor everybody doesn't
31:36
Speaker 2: think I'm just being nice to you. Like the difference
31:39
Speaker 2: between the guys that I'm talking about and the rest
31:43
Speaker 2: is the mindset and how they all practiced. And what
31:46
Speaker 2: I've learned and what I try to tell people is
31:49
Speaker 2: it's not just talent. It's not what it looks like
31:51
Speaker 2: when we just go out and do individual it's a
31:54
Speaker 2: mindset and a competitive edge that most people don't have.
31:58
Speaker 2: It's and I joke about it all the time, but
32:00
Speaker 2: it's when the head coach says it's a walk through
32:02
Speaker 2: and the ball belongs to the offense and they're going
32:04
Speaker 2: to catch the ball, and there's no PBUs. Those guys
32:07
Speaker 2: weren't okay with that, and they weren't going to let
32:09
Speaker 2: a guy ever catch a ball on them. That's just
32:12
Speaker 2: not how it was. And you know exactly what I'm
32:14
Speaker 2: talking about, because we'd have to get yelled at for
32:16
Speaker 2: it because you'd be breaking the ball up and Revis
32:19
Speaker 2: wouldn't be okay if a guy caught a ball on them,
32:20
Speaker 2: and Rondez Barber was not okay if a guy ever
32:22
Speaker 2: caught a ball on them. There's too many guys right
32:25
Speaker 2: now that it's okay. I just got a ball cut
32:27
Speaker 2: on me, No big deal. Yeah it is a big deal.
32:29
Speaker 2: Like take it personal. That's your job. Don't let them
32:32
Speaker 2: catch the ball on you, ever, and if not, line
32:34
Speaker 2: up and do something about it. I just certain guys
32:38
Speaker 2: have that mindset. There's just there's not many of them.
32:41
Speaker 2: So I've been fortunate enough to see it firsthand and
32:43
Speaker 2: learn from it and try to teach from it and
32:45
Speaker 2: use those guys as examples. But I mean that's three
32:50
Speaker 2: Hall of Fame guys that I got a chance to
32:52
Speaker 2: be around, observed, ask questions, coach them, whatever you want
32:55
Speaker 2: to call it, But I've been I've been lucky to
32:58
Speaker 2: be on some good ones.
33:00
Speaker 1: Appreciate that. I appreciate that. That means a lot to me.
33:02
Speaker 1: Have it means a lot. You know, our friendship means
33:04
Speaker 1: a lot. You know, you're one of my favorite coaches
33:06
Speaker 1: of all time, and I'm grateful for the time that
33:09
Speaker 1: we had together in San Francisco. I'm great to be
33:11
Speaker 1: able to be a fan and watch you continue to
33:14
Speaker 1: grow and flourish on your journey and get the head
33:16
Speaker 1: coaching position that you deserve. And you know, I know
33:19
Speaker 1: you'll you'll turn this franchise around and get them winning
33:23
Speaker 1: and get them back to where they deserve to be.
33:26
Speaker 1: If you got anything else you want to tell the
33:28
Speaker 1: fans or you want to say, feel free, But I'm
33:30
Speaker 1: just grateful for the time that you spent with me
33:32
Speaker 1: and giving me this interview during what I know is
33:35
Speaker 1: a chaotic off season for you.
33:37
Speaker 2: No, it's all good, man. I'm I'm happy to see
33:39
Speaker 2: you and no, just excited about what we're gonna build.
33:44
Speaker 2: We're gonna do it the right way with the right
33:45
Speaker 2: type of people. And I'm just I'm really glad to
33:48
Speaker 2: be here. I mean, the support has been awesome. I
33:51
Speaker 2: just I am really fired up to be here and
33:53
Speaker 2: get this thing started. I can't wait for Rotias to start,
33:56
Speaker 2: can't wait for training camp and eventually I'll be fired
33:59
Speaker 2: up to kick off. Thank you for having me on
34:01
Speaker 2: Sherman and hopefully we'll talk soon.
34:03
Speaker 1: Yes, we will definitely talk soon. I mean, the weather
34:05
Speaker 1: in December in South Beach is gonna be a lot
34:07
Speaker 1: different than Green Bay. But you know, I'll let you
34:10
Speaker 1: get there. I'll let you cross that bridge when you
34:12
Speaker 1: get there.
34:13
Speaker 2: Oh man, all right, Well, I'll talk to you soon.
34:16
Speaker 1: Talk to you soon. Man. I appreciate you.