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Stirring the Plot—Why Food Writing Matters · Reality Writes

0:04
SPEAKER_00: Hey, hey, hey, and welcome back to another episode of Reality Rights.
0:09
SPEAKER_00: I am author Ellie Alexander and I am here with the Tech Guy.
0:13
SPEAKER_01: I am the Tech Guy.
0:14
SPEAKER_01: Hello, hello.
0:16
SPEAKER_00: Hey.
0:18
SPEAKER_00: This is the podcast where we pull back the curtain on all things bookish writing and answer any questions that readers have as well.
0:27
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0:28
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0:31
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SPEAKER_01: Um wherever you like to listen or watch your podcasts.
0:54
SPEAKER_00: Podcast.
0:55
SPEAKER_00: Podcasts.
0:56
SPEAKER_00: Podcasts.
0:57
SPEAKER_00: Podcasts.
0:58
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
0:58
SPEAKER_00: I think we should call it a podcast.
1:00
SPEAKER_01: Podcast, yeah.
1:01
SPEAKER_01: That was uh I made up a new word there for a second.
1:04
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:04
SPEAKER_01: Totally.
1:05
SPEAKER_00: I like it.
1:08
SPEAKER_00: Well, uh, this week we're gonna talk about food, food, and food writing and everything that goes into a culinary mystery in particular, which is like its own subset of mysteries.
1:22
SPEAKER_00: And the darlings out there may or may not know this, but if you look at mysteries as a whole, that's a big category.
1:29
SPEAKER_00: And then within the genre, there are subgenres.
1:32
SPEAKER_00: So, you know, true crime, noir, um, kind of a traditional mystery, thrillers, and then cozy.
1:39
SPEAKER_00: And then within the cozy, there is a subset of sort of crafts or focus, and culinary is probably the biggest.
1:47
SPEAKER_00: It's the granddaddy of them all.
1:49
SPEAKER_01: It's the granddaddy of them all, yeah.
1:50
SPEAKER_01: Um now, so is the food the mystery, or is there a mystery on top of the food?
1:58
SPEAKER_00: It's a good question.
2:00
SPEAKER_01: I know the answer, but I just don't I don't know if all the darlings out there.
2:02
SPEAKER_00: Maybe they're I mean, maybe the mystery is.
2:04
SPEAKER_00: I mean, that that could be its own thing, right?
2:06
SPEAKER_00: You might have just invented a new genre.
2:09
SPEAKER_01: I don't know if I like mystery food.
2:12
SPEAKER_01: Um, yeah.
2:13
SPEAKER_00: I mean, there's the whole like dining in the dark trend.
2:16
SPEAKER_00: I think we should do that.
2:17
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's a that's a thing, I guess.
2:19
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
2:20
SPEAKER_00: You don't sound very enthusiastic somehow.
2:22
SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
2:23
SPEAKER_01: I there's just something about not being able to see what uh what you're putting in your mouth.
2:28
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's just these, yeah.
2:30
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
2:31
SPEAKER_00: No, so um the mystery is always first and foremost, and then the secondary piece is a focus on perhaps, like in my case, because I write a long-running bake shop mystery series, there's a lot of baking and coffee involved.
2:48
SPEAKER_00: Um, and then you know, you can whittle that down and get really specific in terms of the food.
2:52
SPEAKER_00: You know, there's some there are cheese shop mysteries and spice shop mysteries and wine mysteries and coffee mysteries.
2:59
SPEAKER_00: Uh so you know, whatever you have a craving for, you can probably find in the pages of a book.
3:05
SPEAKER_01: Uh to like so find your favorite food and then pair it with murder.
3:10
SPEAKER_00: Why not?
3:11
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
3:11
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, okay.
3:13
SPEAKER_00: And a lot of these, not always, but 99% of the time in the cozy.
3:18
SPEAKER_00: The other bonus for readers is that you're going to get recipes in the back.
3:22
SPEAKER_00: So that's kind of the focus of our episode today to talk about how that comes to be.
3:27
SPEAKER_00: And one of the first questions that I always get asked from readers is are you a professional chef?
3:32
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
3:35
SPEAKER_00: And this one for me.
3:37
SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
3:38
SPEAKER_01: Um it feels like a trap.
3:41
SPEAKER_01: It's a trap.
3:42
SPEAKER_00: It's a trap.
3:43
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
3:43
SPEAKER_01: Um, no, you're not.
3:45
SPEAKER_01: No.
3:46
SPEAKER_01: Uh you've learned a tremendous amount uh over the years from um which I imagine you're going to talk about.
3:53
SPEAKER_01: Uh but yeah, but you are not.
3:55
SPEAKER_00: Um I was gonna say um just enough to be dangerous, like a tremendous amount to be able to pretend like an a real history shop.
4:03
SPEAKER_00: And I definitely am not.
4:04
SPEAKER_01: Right.
4:04
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
4:05
SPEAKER_01: Truth be told, uh more than once you've created a recipe that you know you we've had for dinner or whatever, and or dessert.
4:15
SPEAKER_01: And and you know, we've been like, wow, this is really good.
4:19
SPEAKER_01: What's in it?
4:19
SPEAKER_01: And you're like, oh, a little this, a little that.
4:21
SPEAKER_01: And we're like, did you write it down?
4:23
SPEAKER_01: No.
4:23
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, no, no.
4:25
SPEAKER_01: Uh you never write it, you never write your your uh recipes down.
4:29
SPEAKER_00: Never, no, I don't believe in it until I have to at the end.
4:32
SPEAKER_00: And then I'm like, shoot, I should have much earlier on.
4:35
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
4:36
SPEAKER_02: Right.
4:36
SPEAKER_00: So um the other funny thing is I have a number of writer friends who also, like me, write culinary cozy mysteries, and I'm not gonna throw anyone under the bus here.
4:47
SPEAKER_00: I mean, some of them are out about it, but a few of them don't actually cook or bake at all.
4:53
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's um, well, I mean, I think there's I yeah, right.
4:58
SPEAKER_01: I think there's a lot of I think there's a lot of that.
5:00
SPEAKER_01: Um, not not just in writing, but just in anything, you know, you like it it's funny you find like you know, a typecast actor, for example, that is like a big action star or whatever, but never like goes outside or rides motorcycles or anything like that.
5:16
SPEAKER_01: You know, it just like they're just good at what they do.
5:19
SPEAKER_01: And exactly, yeah, they're very creative.
5:22
SPEAKER_00: You can be a great food writer and not have to, you know, be a professional or even semi-professional baker.
5:29
SPEAKER_00: I just have always happened to love baking and food and and you do too.
5:32
SPEAKER_00: You're a great cook.
5:33
SPEAKER_00: Um, so that's just sort of part of our family and what we do.
5:37
SPEAKER_00: But um, yeah, it's uh it's sort of um you can see yeah.
5:41
SPEAKER_01: Also not a professional uh baker though.
5:44
SPEAKER_00: Although you worked in a commercial kitchen, whereas I did not.
5:48
SPEAKER_00: You were a line cook in college.
5:50
SPEAKER_01: I did, yeah.
5:51
SPEAKER_01: Well, I started out as a dishwasher, but I worked my way up.
5:55
SPEAKER_00: You worked your way up, yeah.
5:56
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
5:59
SPEAKER_00: Um, so the first thing I think we should talk about is why food.
6:04
SPEAKER_00: Um, and I have thoughts on that, but I will be super interested to hear from the darlings at the end of this episode why food resonates with you and why you keep coming back to reading culinary cozy's.
6:19
SPEAKER_00: I think that food is a love language.
6:22
SPEAKER_00: I think it's this point of connection.
6:24
SPEAKER_00: It's also a really sensory experience.
6:27
SPEAKER_00: So for me, it adds this other layer not only to the writing, but to the experience of writing it.
6:34
SPEAKER_00: And then hopefully that comes through with the reader that you're getting this other worldly piece of a story.
6:41
SPEAKER_00: Um, and you get to be immersed in the smells and the textures and maybe even the tastes of Tort, my fictional bake shop, when you're reading this series.
6:54
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
6:55
SPEAKER_01: And it's um it's a wildly popular subject.
7:00
SPEAKER_01: Um, I I there there probably wouldn't be an Instagram without food, uh, I would have to say.
7:05
SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's just it definitely wouldn't be what it is today without uh without food and food pictures and and things.
7:13
SPEAKER_01: So um taking that the visual of food and and transforming it into just words so that people can get a mental image of what you're talking about, that is definitely um something that you know a lot of writers are good at.
7:28
SPEAKER_01: And um and I think that's one of the reasons it's it's super popular in the cozy, in the cozy space.
7:36
SPEAKER_00: I think so too.
7:36
SPEAKER_00: And then it also taps into this fantasy that I think a lot of us have about, you know, owning a small bake shop or a coffee shop or a winery or a brew pub.
7:47
SPEAKER_00: I mean, you and exactly you and I have had a zillion conversations about this over the years, and it's so easy to romanticize it.
7:54
SPEAKER_00: Um, and then you know, when I'm out in the real world interviewing pastry chefs, or you know, we're we're visiting a brewery and um talking to the brewers and the owners, and you're like, oh no, this is a ton of work.
8:06
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, totally.
8:07
SPEAKER_01: Totally.
8:08
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, those research trips always kind of um douse the uh the uh dream fire a little bit, um, just because you're you do realize, oh yeah, it is a lot of work.
8:19
SPEAKER_01: It's probably a little bit easier to write about food than it is to kind of uh pull off the perfect recipe, um, you know, unless that's your thing, uh right.
8:28
SPEAKER_00: So yeah.
8:29
SPEAKER_00: And then do it again and again every day and wake up and have those bakeries, you know, like in the series for hundreds of people.
8:35
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, for hundreds of series, exactly.
8:37
SPEAKER_00: Like, I'm just getting ready to um like dive deeper into book 21 for the bake shop mysteries, and I always start them out with Jules like taking this lovely morning walk to the bake shop, and she loves it being quiet in Ashland.
8:51
SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, she has to be there at 4 a.m.
8:53
SPEAKER_00: Like, that's also not so romantic in the real world.
8:57
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, I think uh um, and there are a bunch of a bunch of great um movies and and TV shows about you know restaurants and and the bakeries and the food industry and stuff.
9:08
SPEAKER_01: But I think if for all the darlings out there, like if you haven't seen the bear, just watch the bear at on it's on Hulu, right?
9:16
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think it's Hulu, yeah.
9:18
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, watch the bear, just a couple episodes of that, and you'll realize like it is it is a lot of work to run a restaurant or a bakery or you know, a brew pub or coffee shop or anything.
9:30
SPEAKER_01: That it is a lot of work.
9:32
SPEAKER_01: Um and uh so yeah, I think the fantasy of that for everyone is like, oh, it'd be so romantic to be able to do this.
9:39
SPEAKER_01: And and it would, it really would, but um yeah, you'd be getting up early every day.
9:45
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you'd be getting up early.
9:46
SPEAKER_00: And we we've had the um fortune, the good fortune of having friends who own coffee shops and getting to really pick their brain and see what that process is like.
9:55
SPEAKER_00: And then the same even for uh wineries, you know, our favorite winery in Ashland.
10:00
SPEAKER_00: Um seeing like, because I've always thought, like, oh, it would be so amazing to own our own vineyard and you're out like looking at the grapes and the beautiful sunset.
10:10
SPEAKER_00: Oh no, that's also just a ton of physical labor, stress, worrying about wildfires and weather and you know, bugs and crops, and yeah.
10:20
SPEAKER_01: So yeah.
10:21
SPEAKER_01: No, the the the trick is if you want to do that, like um, I guess for me, it would be like win the lottery, become independently wealthy, and then do that and just be able to sit back and do all those things that you dreamed about doing without actually doing the work, the day-to-day work.
10:35
SPEAKER_01: Right.
10:36
SPEAKER_01: Probably still stress about it.
10:37
SPEAKER_00: I don't know, but maybe not.
10:40
SPEAKER_00: Or or setting up a good segue, you could do what I have done and you could just write about these and make it all fictional, and um, it's fantastic.
10:48
SPEAKER_00: So I think those are sort of all of the reasons that food resonate.
10:52
SPEAKER_00: And um, I also think it's such a point of connection.
10:55
SPEAKER_00: We we have so much disconnection in the world right now, and um, food is kind of this level, leveling space where we can all come to the table um and enjoy a meal and the experience of that in a way that um kind of sloughs off some of the other stuff, which I think is important.
11:15
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, totally.
11:17
SPEAKER_01: Um, yeah, well, and I mean, you I all all dreams aside, in all seriousness, like you knew you knew a fair amount about baking and cooking before you started writing.
11:30
SPEAKER_01: But I think like it, I mean, you should talk a little bit about the research that has gone into just writing the the Bait Shop mystery series, um, you know, and and everything you've learned and the things that have surprised you, I think, more than anything.
11:45
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
11:46
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
11:46
SPEAKER_00: So that's always part of the process.
11:48
SPEAKER_00: When I was first starting the series, I did a deep dive into food.
11:52
SPEAKER_00: So, you know, the mystery, of course, is first and foremost.
11:55
SPEAKER_00: And when I'm working on a draft, the first draft is just whatever is top of mind.
12:02
SPEAKER_00: Um, whatever I'm thinking about, I don't always go in with a vision of a recipe.
12:07
SPEAKER_00: I definitely go in with an idea of seasonality in mind because I know like when the book is being set.
12:13
SPEAKER_00: So I want the food to reflect whatever's happening, happening in terms of weather.
12:17
SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, you don't want to be making some big hearty stew and it's 108 outside.
12:23
SPEAKER_00: Although we'll talk about that because that's usually what happens.
12:27
SPEAKER_00: Um, but when I was first starting out, I felt fairly confident about putting the mystery together because I had already written a few mysteries, but I felt less confident about making sure that I got the food writing right.
12:41
SPEAKER_00: And I think the best compliment I ever get is when an actual pastry chef or baker will email me and say, like, were you a professional chef?
12:50
SPEAKER_00: You you've gotten this right.
12:52
SPEAKER_00: Like you're you're nailing it.
12:53
SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, yes, okay, good.
12:55
SPEAKER_00: Uh, that's all just research.
12:56
SPEAKER_00: So some of that is even just hours and hours of YouTube videos and watching every single baking show I could find on Netflix early on.
13:07
SPEAKER_00: And then um again, having the amazing gift of having friends and colleagues who are talented.
13:16
SPEAKER_00: Uh, and I had some pastry muses early on in the day.
13:18
SPEAKER_00: Chrissy from Tear comes to mind.
13:21
SPEAKER_00: Um, so I tried to take everything I could and then research as much as possible about also the operational piece of running a baked shop because there's the baking piece, but then there's everything else that goes into running and managing a shop behind the scenes.
13:37
SPEAKER_00: So inventory and staffing and um all of the not so sexy piece of it.
13:42
SPEAKER_01: Right.
13:42
SPEAKER_01: Totally.
13:43
SPEAKER_01: Food inspections, cleanliness, that sort of thing.
13:46
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, exactly.
13:47
SPEAKER_00: Uh-huh.
13:48
SPEAKER_00: Making sure, you know, allergies and how things would be stored and uh processes, remodels, hours.
13:55
SPEAKER_00: I have so much more information in my brain and in a zillion journals here in my office that don't ever make it to the page.
14:04
SPEAKER_00: But I I think it's important as a writer, you want to know more than less, always, right?
14:10
SPEAKER_00: And so what ends up on the page is an amalgam of what maybe I know on a broader level, I guess.
14:18
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, well, how do you decide that?
14:20
SPEAKER_01: Like you you go like Chrissy is a great example, um, extremely talented uh um, you know, baker that that we uh pastry chef, I should say, that that we knew from very early on.
14:34
SPEAKER_01: She made a fabulous birthday cake for me when you're gonna be able to do that.
14:36
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, we talked about that.
14:37
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, fantastic.
14:38
SPEAKER_01: But um how do you like obviously you can't put every step like one through 100 that they do uh, you know, in making a recipe.
14:49
SPEAKER_01: So how do you decide as a writer to like how much detail to include versus leaving things out?
14:55
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so I think for me, what I do, and this is definitely different for some of my friends who write in the genre, but uh when I do that first draft, I'm just picking up top of mind, like what am I craving at this moment?
15:07
SPEAKER_00: What also makes sense seasonally, you know?
15:09
SPEAKER_00: So if I'm writing a book about um Halloween that I'm gonna be thinking like fall and pumpkin and that sort of thing.
15:16
SPEAKER_00: So once I have finished a first draft, and there's there's barely anything in a first draft, Jules is in the kitchen kitchen and it is bare bones.
15:24
SPEAKER_00: It's like, and she's baking a chocolate banana cake.
15:27
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
15:28
SPEAKER_00: Once I have finished the first draft, I go back through and then I really concentrate on a these little things that have just come up top of mind.
15:38
SPEAKER_00: Do they make sense?
15:40
SPEAKER_00: First of all.
15:42
SPEAKER_00: Second of all, is it something that I think I can actually bake?
15:45
SPEAKER_00: Is it like how involved is it?
15:48
SPEAKER_00: Because some of what she's baking is next level, you know, like laminating her own croissant dough and things like that, where I'm like, I don't really have time to tackle that, but love it.
15:58
SPEAKER_00: Uh, what will resonate with readers and the darlings?
16:01
SPEAKER_00: What like, because one thing that I've learned going back to that question to you, that um surprises me a lot is um I do think that a lot of readers come to me now for baking advice and input, which is really cool.
16:15
SPEAKER_00: Um, I always have to respond, like, I'm not really a pastry chef, so I'll tell you like what I know, but be careful.
16:20
SPEAKER_00: But um, so many readers who have never attempted even something like a cookie recipe before reading the books.
16:27
SPEAKER_00: So I also want to make sure that it's accessible to readers.
16:31
SPEAKER_00: So those are kind of like the three things I'm thinking about then when I'm like, all right, how are we doing?
16:35
SPEAKER_01: That makes sense.
16:36
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
16:38
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
16:38
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
16:39
SPEAKER_01: Cool.
16:40
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, not using uh the names of kitchen tools and things that wouldn't be commonplace in like an everyday kitchen, you know, that you might yeah, yeah.
16:51
SPEAKER_00: Right.
16:52
SPEAKER_00: And I mean, you know that from um even some of the tort test kitchen videos we were doing back in the day when we were going heavy on uh sharing baking videos, which was so much fun.
17:00
SPEAKER_00: But um I was always surprised by comments that we would get.
17:03
SPEAKER_00: Well, like, I don't like what's a I don't have a a KitchenAid mixer or an electric light.
17:08
SPEAKER_00: Can I do that by hand?
17:09
SPEAKER_00: You know, like, oh yeah, of course you can.
17:12
SPEAKER_00: Um, and again, like not being a professional chef, we don't have fancy, fancy equipment, but right uh knowing that everybody's coming in at a different level and wanting to meet each reader where they're at so they can feel like, oh, if I got inspired to bake something from this book, there's there's something in there that I can actually try.
17:29
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, totally.
17:31
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I know.
17:32
SPEAKER_01: And I and you get so many comments from you know readers who are have like uh I've seen, you know, write in that that haven't really been cookers or you know, uh they haven't been into cooking or baking before, and then they read one of your books and they try one of the recipes and they're just blown away.
17:50
SPEAKER_01: So that's always fun to see like somebody's you know, maybe starting something new that they had always thought was out of uh reach, but um, but saw a recipe in one of the bake shop mysteries and and is now uh rolling with it.
18:06
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, exactly.
18:07
SPEAKER_00: So after that second pass, when I go through and I start thinking like, okay, this recipe is something I can do.
18:13
SPEAKER_00: This recipe feels like something that uh a reader might want to try.
18:17
SPEAKER_00: This recipe also makes sense in terms of the storyline, the setting, the time of year.
18:22
SPEAKER_00: Then what I will do is I will attempt to make all of these recipes.
18:27
SPEAKER_00: And each book has somewhere between six and eight recipes in it.
18:32
SPEAKER_00: Every book has also a coffee recipe.
18:35
SPEAKER_00: I try to mix up a few savory recipes and sweet recipes.
18:40
SPEAKER_00: So, but on average, each book has somewhere between six and eight recipes.
18:45
SPEAKER_01: Of course, they have uh coffee in them because the U that's one thing you test more than anything, I think.
18:52
SPEAKER_01: Coffee recipes.
18:55
SPEAKER_00: Um so I would say, even though there are six or eight recipes that make the final cut, I am often testing more like 10.
19:06
SPEAKER_00: Um, because there are often things that bomb.
19:13
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, there have been some.
19:16
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, there have been and most of the recipes are amazing.
19:19
SPEAKER_01: I will say that.
19:20
SPEAKER_01: But yes, there are some that it's good that they didn't make the cut.
19:25
SPEAKER_01: It's good that they didn't finish that they didn't make it into the books.
19:29
SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
19:30
SPEAKER_00: No, you don't want to taste something that's terrible.
19:32
SPEAKER_00: Um, the first thing that comes to mind is in Meet Your Baker.
19:36
SPEAKER_00: Oh, it might have been a batter of life or death, one of the early books.
19:40
SPEAKER_00: We were living in Vancouver and we had the fig tree in the backyard.
19:44
SPEAKER_01: The figs, yeah.
19:47
SPEAKER_00: And uh Tort is an artisan bake shop too.
19:50
SPEAKER_00: So Julie's always trying to elevate, you know, like she's she's doing things that are kind of cutting edge, incorporating organic ingredients, you know, what's locally sourced.
20:02
SPEAKER_00: So I thought, okay, figs.
20:03
SPEAKER_00: I will make a fig cake with olive oil and chocolate, and it'll be kind of Mediterranean and really like dense and delicious.
20:12
SPEAKER_00: And as you know, a lot of what I bake tastes good.
20:16
SPEAKER_00: Like anything that makes the final cut, I feel very confident.
20:20
SPEAKER_00: Like, okay, if you bake this, you're gonna enjoy it.
20:23
SPEAKER_00: My skill set is not the aesthetics like jewels.
20:27
SPEAKER_00: She is also a pastry artist, as are many of the people who we've met along the way, like Chrissy from here.
20:34
SPEAKER_00: Um, my things do not always look beautiful, they look definitely homemade, which is fine.
20:39
SPEAKER_00: Uh, but this fig cake, I felt so good about because I make made them um in these little rambikins.
20:47
SPEAKER_00: We picked things from our own fig tree.
20:50
SPEAKER_00: They came out beautifully.
20:51
SPEAKER_00: I dusted them with powdered sugar and a little cocoa powder.
20:54
SPEAKER_00: They looked so gorgeous.
20:55
SPEAKER_00: And I thought, like, wow, this is the pinnacle of my baking success.
21:00
SPEAKER_00: And then we all took a bite.
21:04
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that was something.
21:06
SPEAKER_01: Um I I guess the the easiest way they they tasted good.
21:11
SPEAKER_01: The the the easiest way to um to describe them would be like you had gone to the beach real quick and dipped them in sand.
21:20
SPEAKER_00: And just grainy.
21:22
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, they were super grainy, super grainy.
21:25
SPEAKER_01: Oh, it was just like, and for hours afterwards, you'd just be like crunching, like just getting little little bits of the the grain.
21:33
SPEAKER_01: So yeah, that wasn't that wasn't the best.
21:36
SPEAKER_01: That wasn't the best recipe.
21:38
SPEAKER_00: That did not make the cut.
21:39
SPEAKER_00: Instead, there is a recipe for bacon wrapped figs because I was also on deadline for the recipe, so I didn't have a lot of time to go back to the drawing board.
21:48
SPEAKER_00: So instead, it's a grilled fig with like wrapped in bacon.
21:51
SPEAKER_00: It's a perfect little savory appetizer.
21:54
SPEAKER_00: Done.
21:54
SPEAKER_00: Easy.
21:54
SPEAKER_01: Well, and you wrap anything in bacon, it'd be okay.
21:56
SPEAKER_01: So you could wrap sand in bacon, it'd be probably pretty good.
22:00
SPEAKER_00: Maybe.
22:01
SPEAKER_00: Maybe.
22:03
SPEAKER_00: Um, but yeah, so then I'm in the kitchen.
22:05
SPEAKER_00: I am not only baking and testing all of these recipes because I want to make sure that the final product is something that a reader can do and achieve and that the final product also tastes delicious.
22:18
SPEAKER_00: But I am also at that stage of my writing taking sensory notes myself because that's like another layer of editing for the book.
22:27
SPEAKER_00: So I'm thinking about like, ooh, what does it actually smell like?
22:31
SPEAKER_00: How does it feel when my hands are in the Joe?
22:34
SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, is the kitchen steaming up?
22:37
SPEAKER_00: Is it, you know, like all of those things?
22:40
SPEAKER_00: And that, ooh, there goes my microphone.
22:43
SPEAKER_00: Here we go.
22:44
SPEAKER_00: Uh, that all ends up being another layer of editing and sensory detail, which hopefully then again gives the jarling the experience of really being in the kitchen with Jules.
22:57
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and and again, that the the combination of the writing about the food itself and then the environment that the food's being made in, like I I know a lot of a lot of readers have commented just on the fact that it you make them feel like they're at tort, like they're right there next to Jules making whatever it is she's making and and kind of getting that sensory input, which is really cool.
23:22
SPEAKER_00: But then back to your other question, like how do you know how much is too much or not enough?
23:28
SPEAKER_00: Um, because obviously, first and foremost, the focus has to be on the mystery.
23:32
SPEAKER_00: We gotta, we gotta get to the body.
23:34
SPEAKER_00: We she needs to be interviewing suspects.
23:36
SPEAKER_00: Um, and so there's that delicate balance point in terms of okay, now she's in the kitchen.
23:40
SPEAKER_00: The kitchen, you know, from a writer's lens and her baking is really, I feel like sometimes cheating.
23:48
SPEAKER_00: Like it's a great tool for her to have time to be in her head so she can be, you know, making a batch of homemade cinnamon rolls and she's rolling out the dough and she's spreading layers of buttercream over the cinnamon.
24:02
SPEAKER_00: And then she's also thinking and processing, like, oh, you know, this conversation with this suspect makes me think X and blah, blah, blah.
24:09
SPEAKER_00: So really it's it's a tool to make sure that readers are able to be in her headspace and know what she's knowing at that point in time.
24:18
SPEAKER_00: And often the baking scenes are an opportunity for her to um review suspects, for her to kind of rank who she thinks um did it in order.
24:29
SPEAKER_00: Um, and maybe even to shift some suspicion somewhere else.
24:34
SPEAKER_00: If she had had a suspect that she was really hummed in on and now um she's learned some other new piece of information, she might be thinking about that while she's baking.
24:44
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's good.
24:46
SPEAKER_01: All right, that makes sense.
24:47
SPEAKER_01: And and uh um can do you think that that translates into other because I I haven't read other cozy genres, but I know you have.
24:57
SPEAKER_01: Is is that the same for other hobby or or topic-based cozies, like uh knitting, I know is a big one.
25:07
SPEAKER_01: Um, like would that be the same thing?
25:09
SPEAKER_00: I think it's the same thing.
25:11
SPEAKER_00: I think it's slightly, I think in the culinary cozy world, you spend a little more time than you do with other hobbies just because of the nature of baking, you know?
25:21
SPEAKER_00: And um, when I go through and decide which recipes make the final cut, those recipes, Jules is actually physically baking in the book.
25:31
SPEAKER_00: Because I also could never come up, I wouldn't have space.
25:36
SPEAKER_00: You need an entire cookbook for everything that she references, even just in one book, because Tort is putting out so many things every day, right?
25:45
SPEAKER_00: Um, so when I know, okay, this recipe is gonna be in the back of the book, then I go back to that section, and it might be, you know, like I said, she's reviewing suspects while she's also cracking eggs and cutting fresh strawberries and whatever.
25:58
SPEAKER_00: So those scenes have fleshed out baking details at a different level for sure.
26:05
SPEAKER_01: That makes sense.
26:06
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
26:07
SPEAKER_01: Um, you realize you just said the C word though, right?
26:11
SPEAKER_01: What did I say?
26:12
SPEAKER_01: Cookbook.
26:13
SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah, no.
26:18
SPEAKER_01: So now, so now the darlings out there who stopped listening right at that moment are gonna now it's gonna release a cookbook.
26:27
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's yeah, it's yeah, totally.
26:30
SPEAKER_00: That's that's up there with like the number one request I get by email.
26:34
SPEAKER_00: Pretty much, I I don't want to say on a daily basis, but a weekly basis for sure.
26:38
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
26:38
SPEAKER_01: Oh, definitely weekly.
26:40
SPEAKER_00: When are we doing a cookbook?
26:41
SPEAKER_00: What are we doing a cookbook, Tekai?
26:43
SPEAKER_00: When's that happening?
26:44
SPEAKER_00: Tell me.
26:45
SPEAKER_01: I mean, are we gonna talk about it right now?
26:47
SPEAKER_00: Okay, yeah, we can segue.
26:49
SPEAKER_00: It's all about writing.
26:50
SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's yeah, so I think I think what we we've talked a lot on this podcast about um the writing process and the publishing process and a little bit about book cover design and everything.
27:05
SPEAKER_01: Um, I just think the one thing that the the darlings out there who are asking for a cookbook, um well, the one thing I would like to them to understand more than anything else is just how much work a cookbook would be.
27:21
SPEAKER_01: Yes, you've made the recipes.
27:23
SPEAKER_01: Yes, we have those written down, yes, we have all that.
27:27
SPEAKER_01: But the layout and photography of a cookbook is so much different than writing a cozy mystery or anything else that we've done.
27:39
SPEAKER_01: Um, it is next level.
27:40
SPEAKER_01: And and it would involve, it would need to involve, well, first, first and foremost, we probably need a professional pastry chef and a professional cook to make the recipes.
27:51
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
27:51
SPEAKER_01: And and then we need a professional photographer to take pictures of those recipes, and then we need somebody to lay out the cook.
27:58
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it would, I mean, it's it's an expensive endeavor.
28:02
SPEAKER_01: Um, it's very expensive.
28:04
SPEAKER_00: Um and the vision that I have for a cookbook, it would have to be like a Jamie Oliver cookbook.
28:11
SPEAKER_00: You know, I think about like his Christmas and his holiday cookbook.
28:14
SPEAKER_00: So we also would need a set designer, someone who would bring tort to life.
28:20
SPEAKER_00: I mean, could we make a cookbook just you and me with um, you know, the skills we have?
28:24
SPEAKER_00: Sure.
28:25
SPEAKER_00: But I that would not be an enjoyable experience for the darlings out there.
28:29
SPEAKER_00: No, um, or for us, we might end up murdering each other in that process, right?
28:34
SPEAKER_01: Well, and for so for the darlings out there who are inevitably going to comment or you know, write in and say, Oh, you don't need to do all that extra stuff, just put together a list of the recipes.
28:45
SPEAKER_01: And it's like, no, thank you.
28:48
SPEAKER_01: I that's great.
28:49
SPEAKER_01: But for every one person that says that that's okay, there'd be 20 people that would just flame that book in the reviews about how terrible it was, and where are the pictures and why, you know, why why isn't this laid out better?
29:04
SPEAKER_01: I mean, it would just, yeah, it's gotta be, it has to be, like you said, like Jamie's.
29:09
SPEAKER_01: The one thing about um uh modern cookbooks, um, Ben Jamie Oliver is a is a great example of that.
29:18
SPEAKER_01: And you know, he's one of, if not my favorite, um, which is why we have so many of his cookbooks.
29:24
SPEAKER_01: They're just he tells a story as he as he's laying out the recipes and everything.
29:30
SPEAKER_01: And and again, he goes around and and interviews people and spends time in their spaces making the recipes with them and everything.
29:41
SPEAKER_01: So something like that is what I would want, and I know you too would want the tort cookbook to be.
29:50
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, I can see it in my head.
29:52
SPEAKER_00: I I want it to happen.
29:53
SPEAKER_00: Don't get me wrong.
29:54
SPEAKER_00: I think we both do, but it's just that's a that is like a next level undertaking, as you said.
30:01
SPEAKER_00: And um yeah, it would have to feel like I would want everyone and myself included when I opened the pages to feel like this is the tort that I have known and loved for 21 books now.
30:13
SPEAKER_00: Like, oh this is what an Andy Coffee would look like.
30:16
SPEAKER_00: This is what a string flatbread would look like.
30:18
SPEAKER_00: Here's a jewels, like four-layer tort.
30:21
SPEAKER_00: Like it would just, it would need to tell a story.
30:24
SPEAKER_00: It would be super fun to tell the story with some of the chefs who we and you know, baristas who we've known over the years too, to uh to bring them in, um, to have it styled, to set up scenes like, you know, you there could be a picnic dinner at Uva outside and something at Lithia Pars.
30:42
SPEAKER_00: And I mean, it would be magical, but it would also be a million dollars to make that.
30:46
SPEAKER_00: I know.
30:46
SPEAKER_01: I was just like, as you're as you're listing off all those things, I'm like, yes, yes, I would want that to be yes.
30:51
SPEAKER_01: And then I'm like, okay, darlings, this cookbook's gonna cost$178.
30:56
SPEAKER_01: So yeah, I mean, that, yeah, I mean, it's gonna be a$50 book for sure.
31:04
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I I would imagine, like when when all is said and done.
31:09
SPEAKER_01: Um the case, yeah, it's it's it's just a lot.
31:13
SPEAKER_01: It's a lot to it's a lot to do.
31:15
SPEAKER_01: And um, I know people want it and they'd love it, but um, but the one thing I will say, and I'm going back through and reformating all the like not all, but a lot of the recipes that you've shared over the years and everything are on your blog.
31:34
SPEAKER_01: And I'm in the process of pulling all those over into a new recipe plugin that makes it really easy to um print them out uh and you know, or pin them on Pinterest if that's your thing.
31:48
SPEAKER_01: So um, so hopefully that'll be done in the next couple weeks here, and all those will be there.
31:54
SPEAKER_01: I mean, they're already there, but they're just blog posts.
31:56
SPEAKER_01: Now they're gonna be actually formatted recipes that'll be a lot easier to to use.
32:01
SPEAKER_01: They're really cool.
32:01
SPEAKER_01: You can like tap on the ingredients and they'll cross it out.
32:05
SPEAKER_01: So as you're mixing stuff, you can go, oh yeah, I put a quarter of a cup of that in, cross it out.
32:10
SPEAKER_01: But um yeah, but yeah, cookbook, I don't know.
32:15
SPEAKER_00: No, I love that.
32:16
SPEAKER_00: I feel like that's one step closer to the food button.
32:18
SPEAKER_00: It is, and we're on we're on the path, we're manifesting it slowly but surely.
32:22
SPEAKER_00: And the fun thing about a lot of those recipes is many of them are from the books, but then there are also quite a few that are from the test kitchen that didn't make that too.
32:31
SPEAKER_00: So you you get to get a little sense of that as well, which is fine.
32:34
SPEAKER_01: Well, that and there are hundreds from like the 31 days of pie and 31 days of cookies and all the all the holiday stuff that we've done in the past.
32:44
SPEAKER_01: I mean, there's there are a lot of recipes there.
32:46
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you can bake your way through the books with us, right?
32:50
SPEAKER_00: Um, the other thing in terms of recipes is sometimes I will go into a book with a family recipe that I know that I want to share, and that's kind of a center point of the book.
33:02
SPEAKER_00: And that happened with Meet Your Baker.
33:04
SPEAKER_00: So the first recipe in that is for my mom's Raspberry Danish.
33:07
SPEAKER_00: And then um, the second recipe, or you know, I don't know where it actually falls, but the other recipe from that book is my dad's mocha almond buttercream tort with apricot preserves.
33:18
SPEAKER_00: Um, so a lot of times I will go in with an idea in mind.
33:23
SPEAKER_00: Um, I get a lot of recipes from readers, which is super fun.
33:27
SPEAKER_00: Um, but uh I can't usually put those in a book because they don't belong to me and there are copyright issues and things like that.
33:36
SPEAKER_00: Um, I was able to partner with my friend Miri, who is gluten-free and dairy-free, and um, she put together a special cake recipe for Catch Me a Few Candy.
33:48
SPEAKER_00: And we were talking a lot about how um if you have food allergy allergies and you go into a bakery, or even if you go into a bakery that specializes in food allergies, sometimes it's just you get like a basic chocolate or vanilla.
34:03
SPEAKER_00: There are one or two options.
34:04
SPEAKER_00: And so for her, she wanted to make sure that the recipe felt as like decadent and and inclusive as something with tort.
34:11
SPEAKER_00: Um, so getting to do some of those partnerships is fun.
34:15
SPEAKER_00: Um we would often oh yeah, go ahead.
34:17
SPEAKER_01: Oh no, I was gonna say that that uh that actually brings up a good point, though, is that just um, you know, uh the and this you've talked a lot about like right way you know.
34:28
SPEAKER_01: And so your recipes are written from your lens, right?
34:31
SPEAKER_01: So exactly you're not always gonna know like what every possible substitute of you know an ingredient is.
34:40
SPEAKER_01: So can you make this recipe gluten-free?
34:42
SPEAKER_01: Like, probably, but I you know, I don't know.
34:46
SPEAKER_01: And so I guess I all that uh just a quick aside to say, like the darlings out there, these recipes are all born out of testing.
34:54
SPEAKER_01: So just test, like just try it.
34:57
SPEAKER_01: And and and if it works, great.
34:59
SPEAKER_01: If it doesn't, you have a funny story to tell.
35:00
SPEAKER_01: And be sure to post and tag Ellie and say, hey, FYI, try this and and and the successes and the failures, because oh, we've had some failures, but yeah, anyway, go ahead.
35:10
SPEAKER_00: Yes, no, great baking fails.
35:12
SPEAKER_00: Oh my gosh, we have some miles and miles of footage for that.
35:16
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, and um, I think because I'm I don't have those similar food allergies, or you know, I'm not a practicing vegan.
35:24
SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, I try to work in like some vegan recipes every now and then.
35:28
SPEAKER_00: Um, I mean, we love to incorporate vegan recipes in our own cooking, um, or same thing with gluten-free, but um, especially with baking, there's such a science to it.
35:38
SPEAKER_00: And like flour ratios don't always match up.
35:41
SPEAKER_00: The same thing goes for if you're substituting some kind of oil or alternative milk.
35:46
SPEAKER_00: So yeah, that's uh that's like its own beast.
35:48
SPEAKER_00: Um, I was thinking back to, you know, we're we're in September now, however, uh it is still warm and we're gonna have a heat wave this week.
35:59
SPEAKER_00: Um, and I feel like every time I am working on the recipes, they are almost always to the letter off season.
36:07
SPEAKER_02: Oh yeah, totally.
36:09
SPEAKER_00: I feel like I go back to um on thin icing, and you know, this is set at Lake of the Woods in southern Oregon.
36:16
SPEAKER_00: It's a snowstorm, it's cozy, it's winter, they're crackling fireplaces.
36:20
SPEAKER_00: This is like, you know, hearty soups and stews and chocolate muffins.
36:26
SPEAKER_00: And I was writing that book when we were in the middle of a heat wave in July in Vancouver, and I'm just sweating like crazy and trying to describe, and then having to bake, like, hey, who wants a coop night?
36:41
SPEAKER_01: Sorry, like dinner.
36:44
SPEAKER_01: We smelled like Luke and I smelled something that uh in the coming out of the kitchen.
36:49
SPEAKER_01: We're like, oh, you know, let's go see what's for dinner.
36:51
SPEAKER_01: And and uh uh we came because we knew you were in there baking some test recipes that we were gonna be having that night for dinner, and so we we came up and you're like, Oh uh it's like you know, almost a hundred degrees outside, and we had like beef stew, some some sort of stew that night.
37:08
SPEAKER_01: We were like, What?
37:09
SPEAKER_01: Ohm.
37:12
SPEAKER_01: It was delicious, but it was like just kind of like I can't eat another bite.
37:16
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
37:18
SPEAKER_00: Right.
37:18
SPEAKER_00: And so that's the other reality of um, this is why it's called reality rights.
37:23
SPEAKER_00: That's the other reality of writing recipes.
37:26
SPEAKER_00: I am um buying all those ingredients, I'm testing those ingredients, we're having that food for dinner, or we're sharing with friends or neighbors.
37:34
SPEAKER_00: Like, it's not like I get some bonus budget from the publishing house for like recipe testing.
37:40
SPEAKER_00: That's just that's all on us.
37:42
SPEAKER_01: Right, right.
37:43
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, well, and I mean that's a good point, though.
37:45
SPEAKER_01: And so that the darlings know out there that, you know, all the readers, like everything that's in your books has been tried.
37:53
SPEAKER_01: Like it's been tested, it's been and it's been iterated on, you know, very few of these recipes are perfect the first try.
38:02
SPEAKER_01: Like you're you're pretty you you like you're less of a perfectionist than I am, but when it comes to stuff that goes in your books, you want it to be just right.
38:11
SPEAKER_01: And yeah, just right doesn't always mean perfect, but it it does mean that you know, if if you you're making like a bunt and it doesn't release correctly or something, it's like, oh, scrape that out and time to start again, you know, and and just um you know, going and trying and and trying to improve what goes in the books.
38:31
SPEAKER_01: And so I think that's important to point out because now, you know, with the advent of AI and everything, you can grab a list of ingredients and go over to Chat GPT or Claude or anything and say, hey, here's what I have, make a recipe for me.
38:45
SPEAKER_01: And that's great, but if you haven't made that recipe, you don't know what you're getting.
38:50
SPEAKER_01: Like you I mean, it is really it could be fun, it could be terrible, it could be amazing.
38:57
SPEAKER_01: You just never know.
38:58
SPEAKER_01: But but just the point is that like you have physically baked or cooked everything that has gone into the books, or is available on your blog or in the tortest kitchen videos.
39:09
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's like dining in the dark.
39:11
SPEAKER_00: It's uh dining with AI.
39:14
SPEAKER_00: Although our friends had a really fun party where uh they plugged in everything they had in their liquor cabinet, as well as like, you know, their coverage.
39:23
SPEAKER_01: The mixers, yeah.
39:24
SPEAKER_00: All the mixers and stuff and then invited all of us over, and then they put it into chat and they had like a cocktail list based on whatever ingredients they had in their house.
39:35
SPEAKER_00: You could choose, you could pick any of those.
39:36
SPEAKER_00: It was super fun.
39:37
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, ChatGPT came up with a list of like 14 different drink ideas uh using the ingredients that they had, and then step-by-step instructions on how to make all of them because they they're not big like you know, mixologists, so they didn't like they wouldn't have known how to make 99% of the drinks that it spit out, but um, but they were able to do that, and it was pretty good.
40:00
SPEAKER_00: But I'm just saying you have to be careful because it is not perfect, and yeah well, and uh like the bunt makes me think of one of the things that's been such a delight is getting to learn actual baking tips myself that I get to weave into the books.
40:18
SPEAKER_00: So I never understood the process of getting a bunt out of the pan correctly in till I started writing the series and speaking to actual pastry chefs.
40:28
SPEAKER_00: You have to spray that like you know, you're spraying 1980s aquanet to get your giant hair, like you have to grease that bunt forever.
40:38
SPEAKER_00: And then the the big key is when you take a bunt out of the oven, you have to let it rest for five to ten minutes before you invert it and flip it over, but not much longer, because if you let it sit in there for too long, then it starts to cling to the sides.
40:55
SPEAKER_00: But if you do it immediately, it's too hot and it'll just crumple and fall into pieces, which you know not too hot, not too cold.
41:01
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
41:02
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
41:03
SPEAKER_01: Well, the uh what were those guys?
41:05
SPEAKER_01: The the bros that bunt.
41:07
SPEAKER_01: Yes, those that you partnered with uh for nothing but trouble.
41:12
SPEAKER_01: That was fun.
41:13
SPEAKER_01: That was I I learned a lot about bunt baking from from those guys.
41:17
SPEAKER_01: So um, yeah, it well, and with the bunt pans, they get so intricate in their designs and everything.
41:24
SPEAKER_01: I mean, I think if you know, if you just quickly spray it, you think ah I got everything, but no, you didn't.
41:28
SPEAKER_01: You didn't get that little crevice down there or the the left tower of Hogwarts Castle was still like not uh sprayed enough.
41:37
SPEAKER_01: So yeah.
41:38
SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
41:39
SPEAKER_00: Um, but we have some great footage over the years of short test kitchen videos where things like that have happened.
41:47
SPEAKER_00: So many baking fails where uh, you know, we've filmed the whole thing.
41:52
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you put the butt in the oven to bake.
41:55
SPEAKER_00: Now it's ready for the big reveal.
41:57
SPEAKER_00: You've got the cameras, the whole the lights, like the kitchen has been taken over.
42:00
SPEAKER_00: It looks like a movie set, and then I go to flip the buttons and no, it's not coming out, it's coming out chunks.
42:08
SPEAKER_01: In fact, I think one whole at least one whole episode of the tort test kitchen videos that we have on YouTube is just fails, like just the the kitchen fails.
42:18
SPEAKER_01: Um, but yeah, so when people talk about the tort test kitchen, and for the darlings out there who don't know what that is, and so video series that Ellie and I uh had done in the past, um, we talked about bringing it back, but uh um but it was basically we take one recipe or one theme and and you would bake like it was you know not real time.
42:39
SPEAKER_01: Uh we would we would uh do clips together.
42:43
SPEAKER_01: But the situation you just described is one of the reasons that that we, you know, we just ran out of time and being able to do these things because you know, at that point, we're an hour and a half, two hours into making that video, and then the end product fails at the end.
43:01
SPEAKER_01: Now you've got to go back and make another once.
43:03
SPEAKER_01: Now we've got to just put everything on hold and wait another like 45 minutes while this thing's baking and hope that it comes out the second time.
43:11
SPEAKER_01: Um that happened more often, like I wouldn't say more often than not, it happened more than once.
43:18
SPEAKER_01: Let's just say that.
43:19
SPEAKER_00: It happened more than once, and then um you have to start from scratch with all the ingredients.
43:24
SPEAKER_00: Sometimes that meant running to the store, sometimes that meant like, oh, well, now it's six o'clock at night, and that was gonna be dinner for tonight, so we're getting pizza because whatever burned in the oven, or yeah.
43:37
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
43:38
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, in fact, uh, I think I think at one point we switched the set because we used to have you at the beginning of the videos standing and there was a window behind you, but we quickly realized that we couldn't do that because if if something took it not not because of fails or anything, but if it just took long enough, it would go from being light outside.
44:00
SPEAKER_01: Beginning of the video to be in dark outside at the end, and it'd be like, Yeah, this took six hours, you know?
44:05
SPEAKER_01: Like yeah, yeah, yeah.
44:08
SPEAKER_00: Um, but I think the baking fails are fun and important because that is really part of the process, and that's something that Jules and the team talk about throughout the series, and it's something that um real chefs have spoken with me about that sometimes you find your best and most famous recipe or most beloved dish by you know trial and error and messing around and not having everything turn out, which I think is a good metaphor for life.
44:38
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, definitely.
44:39
SPEAKER_01: I mean, I think some of the some of the most famous foods, definitely some of the uh most successful beers have been accidents.
44:48
SPEAKER_01: Like they, you know, somebody put too much of something in and didn't realize it until the end, and they thought it was going to be ruined, and then they're just like, oh wow, this tastes amazing, you know.
44:57
SPEAKER_01: So this is actually genius.
44:59
SPEAKER_01: Right.
45:00
SPEAKER_01: I meant to do it.
45:01
SPEAKER_01: It's totally planned.
45:03
SPEAKER_00: Um, and then the last thing I will say is it uh always warms my heart, and it's so fun when I get email from you, the darlings, when you have baked something and it is turned out, it's been something that then becomes part of your family recipes, traditions, like that is just incredible.
45:25
SPEAKER_00: Um, and especially it's especially true if it's a recipe that means a lot to me.
45:29
SPEAKER_00: You know, if I've shared a recipe of my mom's or my dad's or my grandma or somebody like that, and then uh you you try it and you feel the same way, like ah, that's chef's kiss.
45:39
SPEAKER_00: Nothing better, nothing better at all.
45:41
SPEAKER_01: I think you've gotten a lot of those comments about the Berlin bars.
45:45
SPEAKER_00: Berlin bars are like those are the I would say all-time favorite, all-time favorite.
45:51
SPEAKER_00: Those are from Sloan Krause, but fun fact, Sloan Krause, even though um she does some baking and some baking with beer and some German recipes, because those were in hardcover, they didn't end up having recipes, which I don't know why from the publishing house standpoint, but that was that was what they decided.
46:07
SPEAKER_00: Um so we have been able to share on social and the blog uh some recipes like that that weren't that they were talked about in the book, but the actual recipe wasn't part of it.
46:18
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
46:19
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I don't know why they didn't do it either, but yeah, it's been fun because you've gotten a lot of email and Facebook comments and comments, Instagram, everywhere.
46:30
SPEAKER_01: People are like, where's the recipe for this?
46:32
SPEAKER_01: Because they're so used to uh the bake shop series that you know they they the second you talk about food in any of your uh books, they're you know, readers are like, Where's where's the recipe?
46:44
SPEAKER_01: Where is it?
46:45
SPEAKER_00: Which I love, like, okay, yeah.
46:47
SPEAKER_00: Bring it on.
46:49
SPEAKER_00: Or or there's a whole subplot of mystery writer, you know, gets murdered by fans for not producing recipes.
46:58
SPEAKER_01: It's just it's top secret, yeah.
47:00
SPEAKER_00: That's right.
47:02
SPEAKER_01: It's awesome.
47:03
SPEAKER_00: Um, well, on that note, I have some more recipe testing to do this week.
47:09
SPEAKER_00: You all tasted a potential recipe last night.
47:14
SPEAKER_01: Oh, that wheeler's that soup that was delicious.
47:17
SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah.
47:18
SPEAKER_01: Um, we finished all of it.
47:21
SPEAKER_00: I need a giant pot and it was gone.
47:24
SPEAKER_00: I thought you would have leftovers for a couple days.
47:26
SPEAKER_01: No, that was really good.
47:28
SPEAKER_01: I really liked that one.
47:29
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it was really good.
47:31
SPEAKER_00: It's an Italian soup with Yukon gold potatoes and sausage and kale, a little splash of wine.
47:38
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it was it was delicious.
47:40
SPEAKER_01: Um, I'm a little nervous about the recipes coming up this week, though, knowing that it's going to be like in the high 90s.
47:47
SPEAKER_01: So I can't wait to try the pot roast and uh baked potatoes with heavy gravy that you probably have coming.
47:57
SPEAKER_00: Maybe Jules will be like, we're having a winter picnic inside in front of the fire.
48:02
SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna gruel hot dogs on the fire.
48:04
SPEAKER_01: Okay, yeah, I can go for that.
48:09
SPEAKER_00: All right, well, on that note, um, until next time, darlings, happy reading and baking.
48:16
SPEAKER_01: Happy reading and baking until next time.