Latest / WGKM / The Erin Molan Show - She Went to EXPOSE “Zionist Propaganda”… Then She LOST Everything

Transcript

The Erin Molan Show - She Went to EXPOSE “Zionist Propaganda”… Then She LOST Everything · WGKM

• 0:09
  Speaker 1: I lost pretty much all of my friends straight to
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: no contact. He stopped talking to me. I was like,
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: what is this Zionist propaganda doing in my inbox? Like
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: I was so confused and I was almost going to
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: delete it.
• 0:23
  Speaker 2: Every single young person, not just in the West, in
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: the world must watch this. Every parent must watch this.
• 0:38
  Speaker 2: And I don't say that lightly. This young woman, she
• 0:44
  Speaker 2: is changing the world. She will change the world in
• 0:47
  Speaker 2: an even more extraordinary way. This is a little bit
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: of what she said at Stanford College recently.
• 0:56
  Speaker 3: Go.
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: A year ago, I would have been on the other
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: side of campus participating in a counter protest armed with
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: megaphone and a conviction I thought was absolute. After October 7th, 2023,
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: social media flattened a century of history into two opposing hashtags.
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: Soon supporting the Palestinian cause became a litmus test for
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: activists like myself. I was told that the Palestinian struggle
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: paralleled my African-American ancestor struggle with colonial subjugation. But in
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: my progressive circles, my questions about the slaughtered civilians and
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: hostages were met with whataboutisms and slogans such as resistance
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: is justified when Palestine is occupied. And I found myself
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: in an echo chamber so loud, it was deafening. The
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: first crack in that echo chamber came in the form
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: of an email.
• 1:45
  Speaker 3: But something changed everything. And I need you to see
• 1:50
  Speaker 3: it too.
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: Go.
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: Taryn Thomas, it is so lovely to welcome you to
• 1:55
  Speaker 2: the Erin Moland Show. Thank you so much for joining me.
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: Thank you for having me. I'm really excited to share
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: my story.
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: I'm so excited to hear it and I've seen little
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: bits and pieces, but I'd love to start by asking you,
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: who were you prior to going to that event to
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: commemorate the Nova victims prior to October 7? What did
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: you believe about the world and what were you passionate about?
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: I want to know the woman before or the girl even,
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: you're still so young.
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I come from a Christian family. I
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: grew up in a very conservative, Trump-supporting town in Southern California.
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: I think the racism that I had dealt with growing
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: up kind of pushed me too far to the left,
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: as I thought, like, you know, oh, Trump supporters are
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: the problem. And I thought I found a home in activism.
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: It's just, however... That obviously led me to becoming very
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: radicalized at a very young age. Before Stanford, before all
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: of this, I was pretty involved with the Black Lives
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: Matter movement. I first joined when I was 16 years old,
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: and that was where I saw my first Palestinian flag.
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: And I remember hearing chants like, no one is free
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: until Palestine is free, and how black liberation is bound
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: to Palestinian liberation. And so to me, at the time,
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: it made sense. I'm not Jewish. I don't have any
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: connection to Israel. But there's an oppressor and then there's
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: the oppressed. So it's like if you care about justice
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: at all, you know what side you're on.
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: And I think that's really interesting because I think I've
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: become more aware in recent times. I think I used
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: to think there was a bigger proportion of people who
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: who were malicious and maybe actually supported evil than there
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: were just, and useful idiots, I don't know if that's
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: the right term, but people who genuinely believed that they
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: were doing good. I think there's a much bigger portion
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: of people who genuinely believe they're doing good than maybe
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: we even realise. What was the moment that woke you
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: up to the fact that, yes, you can care deeply,
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: but if you're supporting the wrong people, side in this,
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: you are not helping any innocent child in Gaza, let
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: alone anywhere.
• 4:18
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: I mean, like first we would have to start with, uh,
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: at Stanford, I had joined our encampment. We had set
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: it up 13 days after October 7th. So you can
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: imagine the speed that it took, um, without any time
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: for grieving. we called it a sit-in to stop the genocide.
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: And this is like one week before Israel's ground invasion
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: had even began. And we were calling it a genocide.
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: So it's like seeing overnight Stanford University undergrad students become
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: genocide scholars and experts. It just, it's very interesting to watch,
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: especially like when we talk about like these stories Like
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: a lot of modern universities are right now afflicted with
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: this problem of activists kind of doing this moral grandstanding
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: and causing a lot of tribalism within the student body.
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: And so with tribalism, you're not able to hear the
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: other side or even engage in dialogue or debate with
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: the other side because you already assume everything, the worst
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: caricature about the other side. And so unfortunately, we've seen
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: that like full picture at Stanford and Uh, yeah, I got,
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: it got to a point where, where, you know, inside
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: the encampment, you weren't really supposed to talk with Zionists.
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: Like it was looked down upon that you might be like,
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: there was a lot of suspicion of like, who's a
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: Zionist and who's not. So I just think that, uh,
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: like when you determine like who's good and who's evil,
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: it's just, you want to make sure that you stay in,
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: stay in your consensus, good, gracious, you know?
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: Were there ever any moments during that period where you went, oh,
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: wait a minute, or you felt a little bit curious
• 6:03
  Speaker 2: and thought, this doesn't add up, or you saw something
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: and you went, this doesn't align with what you're telling
• 6:08
  Speaker 2: me this is meant to represent. That's not what I
• 6:11
  Speaker 2: thought we were about. And this is prior to you changing.
• 6:13
  Speaker 3: Did you have moments? And what did you do? Were
• 6:16
  Speaker 3: you shut down if you expressed those?
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so one of the moments was when I had
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: mentioned a two-state solution because I joined the pro-Palestine movement
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: because I wanted the war to end and I was
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: very human rights focused. But I didn't know that meant
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: taking a step further. That means Israel has to be destroyed.
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: And so I had brought up a two-state solution. And
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: I remember in the encampment, my friends looked you know,
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: down on me. And they were like, you know, that
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: makes you a Zionist, you know, because you're, you're validating
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: Israel's right to exist. And I was like, oh my God, no.
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: And I, and I didn't even really understand. I didn't
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: really understand Zionist or, or anti-Zionist. I just knew that
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: Zionist was a slur. It was a Z slur. And
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: so I immediately was like, you know, started calling myself
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: an anti-Zionist from that point on. Because again, like when you,
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: when you Like when your belonging gets shaken like that,
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: like you want to like double down so you can
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: not lose your friends.
• 7:20
  Speaker 3: And I think that's a big part of it.
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: I mean, I look at the stance that I took
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: and I was a 40-year-old woman with 40 years of
• 7:28
  Speaker 2: life experience and it was still difficult for me to
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: stand up. I still did it, but it was really hard.
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: I don't know if I could have done it at
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: your age. In fact, I know I would not have
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: been able to do it. You want to belong. You
• 7:41
  Speaker 2: want to feel included. Life is hard enough. It's the
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: fact that you actually then had a moment and you
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: decided to follow through on that curiosity and see for yourself.
• 7:52
  Speaker 3: Tell me about the.
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: Email that landed in your inbox that basically changed the
• 7:57
  Speaker 2: trajectory of your life.
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I would back up a little bit. Before I
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: was ready to receive that email, there was a Stanford protest,
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: pro-Palestine protest in June of 2024 where Stanford students broken
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: into the president's office. They caused an estimated like $ 700, 000
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: in damages. 12 students received felonies. or sorry, were charged
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: with felonies. Those charges were later on dropped, but they
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: left graffiti like death to America, death to Israel, kill cops.
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: And I think that to see that written by students
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: at my own school, these are our biggest and brightest
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: minds saying death to America in the name of a
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: cause I've stood behind. I couldn't rationalize What does Death
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: to America have to do with saving gods and lives?
• 8:52
  Speaker 3: Like.
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: Um, and so I, I remember asking this question, I
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: was like, why do we have to cause property damage?
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: And then the response being, well, property damage isn't worth
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: more than a policy in life taken in Gaza. And
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: it's like, it's like these very scripted, like moral answers
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: that it's like, yeah, of course, but it's like thought terminating,
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: you know, you can't like, what, like, how.
• 9:16
  Speaker 3: Do you argue that?
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: How do you, well, of course it's not, but this
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: isn't going to save that life. You know, it's, I
• 9:22
  Speaker 2: get it. This is, they're so good at it too,
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: aren't they? It's sophisticated.
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: Genuinely, genuinely. And it's like, you can't push back. And
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: so when you feel, when you are trying to push back,
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: you're just met with a wall. That's why they boil
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: this down to whether, do you support genocide or do
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: you not? Like, there's not even the question of, is
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: this genocide? It's not even a question anymore. It's which,
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: which one, when are you on? What side are you on?
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: So it's just like, yeah. When you have it like
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: two sides and there's no nuance, no complexity, no room
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: for complication, it's just very easy to demonize people that...
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: don't have your opinions or view something differently. So after
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: that whole like protest, I took a step back from
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: the movement because again, I was so confused on like,
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: what exactly was I a part of at that point?
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: Because I didn't realize, I didn't know at what point
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: did this pro-Palestine movement became anti-American, anti-Israel. Right. And so
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: I took a step back. But in that space, I
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: received an email invite from my now best friend inviting
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: non-Jewish students to bear witness to the Nova Music Festival
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: exhibit in L.A. And I remember seeing this. I was like,
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: what is this Zionist propaganda doing in my inbox? Like
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: I was so confused and I was almost going to
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: delete it. But I did have a hint of curiosity.
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: And I was like, you know what? I want to
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: investigate this propaganda. And I think, like, although I went
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: in with, like, not the best intentions, because I wanted
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: to expose, like, the AIPAC, like, whatever conspiracy theory I
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: was thinking this would be, I still went. And I
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: still had curiosity. And I think that's, like, what a
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: lot of people, young people are missing right now is curiosity. Yes.
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: When I went to the exhibit, like that exhibit, it
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: rattled me in every way imaginable. Yeah.
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: Tell me about what you were exposed to. I mean,
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: it's ironic, isn't it? You went to try and expose them,
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: but in turn, what you were exposed to there was
• 11:34
  Speaker 2: changed everything. It was listening to calls that were made,
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: seeing burnt out cars. What was it that just, I guess,
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: maybe stopped your heart?
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: Oh, wow. Yeah. I mean, truly, the exhibit was so
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: well done. It wasn't they brought the real things. And
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: the thing is like, it's one thing to look at
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: social media and like scroll through and watch videos, but
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: to see the real artifacts, like seeing the bullet riddled
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: holes in porta potties, the burnt wrecked cars, the shoes
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: that are left behind. It was very like visceral and
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: you can feel like you're there with them. And then
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: not just that, like I, just to see, like the
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: victim's faces, and they just look like normal people. They
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: don't look like colonizers or anything, like any of the
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: caricatures I thought a Zionist looked like.
• 12:34
  Speaker 3: Guys, give me a minute.
• 12:35
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• 12:39
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• 12:42
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  Speaker 3: Now, join the movement today.
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  Speaker 2: Go to patriotmobile.com forward slash Erin or call 972-PATRIOT. Use
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• 14:00
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• 14:07
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• 14:11
  Speaker 1: These were just kids my age going to a music
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: festival that I would have went. And it's really hard
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: to not put yourself in their shoes of like, living
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: your last moments after just coming to go dance, you know?
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: And so I remember like another recording that like struck
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: me was this audio recording by a Hamas terrorist who
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: had called his dad on the woman's phone that he
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: had just murdered, saying that he had killed 10 Jews
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: with his bare hands. And I thought that dad was
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: going to like scream in horror, but instead his dad
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: congratulated him and his mom said, I wish I was
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: there with you. And I was, these were our martyrs. These,
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: this was the resistance. And there was no like, no,
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: no vocabulary that I had learned over the years of like, whatever,
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: calling this like a decolonization and whatnot that could, That
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: can help me understand what I was hearing. And he
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: said Jews, that he killed Jews. He didn't say Zionists
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: or like freeing Palestine. It was Jews. And that was
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: like the first time I realized that this was about Jews.
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: And I know that sounds so ignorant, but when you're
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: inside the... this pro-Palestine movement, they make it so clear
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: to you that, no, we're anti-Zionist. We're not anti-Semitic. This
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: has nothing to do with Judaism. This has nothing to
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: do with Jews, but rather the Zionist entity.
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: That would have been really hard for you, I'd imagine,
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: not only the content and the subject matter, which is harrowing,
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: but maybe realising that what you were a part of
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: earlier or what you cared so deeply about wasn't what
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: you thought it was or that you in some way
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: may have contributed to supporting those who carry out this
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: kind of thing. How did you handle that personally and
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: what did you go through after that experience?
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: I know exiting that exhibit, I was so conflicted internally.
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: I thought I was going to go back to my
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: pro-Palestine friends and like chat about what I've seen. I
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: had no one to turn to with like all this
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: like new information because I knew if I went to
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: go talk to my friends that they would be like, well,
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: why were you even there in the first place? And
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: then they would start questioning me. And so I was
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: just kind of, I was like kind of, in between
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: like a rock and a hard place at that point,
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: because I, I, everything that I had believed about October 7th,
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: about the Nova music festival, um, there's so many different
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: like propaganda things that I had believed in, such as, uh,
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: that this, that it was mainly soldiers that were killed,
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: not civilians. Um, and that was just a lie just because,
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: you know, it mandatory services in Israel. So everyone's technically
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: a soldier, um, And so but it's like unraveling all
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: of those those lies by myself was just harrowing. And
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: I and I understand why people don't go down that path,
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: because it took so much energy to to question this,
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: the consensus, you know.
• 17:38
  Speaker 3: No, it does. And it's lonely.
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: It's so lonely when you don't feel like you can
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: confide in anyone. And again, I feel, I know I'm
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: not your mother, but I just feel so proud of
• 17:49
  Speaker 2: you for having curiosity, for going to see for yourself.
• 17:53
  Speaker 3: And then do you know what?
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: You could have walked away and thought more propaganda. In fact,
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: that's what I'm going to convince myself because that's easier.
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: It's easier for you to stick with what you believe
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: in because then you don't have to challenge yourself. And it's,
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: you could have done that and, and, I would have
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: gotten it because you're young and there's so much, but
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: you did the opposite. What happened when you decided you
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: weren't not only going to be part of that pro-Palestinian
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: movement that you were in before that all your best
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: friends were in, not only walk away from that, because
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: that's one thing, that's very brave, but to then actually
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: use your voice in the opposing way. And when I
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: say opposing, not opposing trying to save innocent lives in Gaza.
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: I'm pro-Israel, which I think is the greatest way to
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: support innocent lives in Gaza.
• 18:43
  Speaker 3: I'm anti-terror. But to actually try and.
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: Support in ways that will actually help. When did you
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: decide to use your voice and be public? And what
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: was the fallout from that? Did you lose friends? I'm
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: assuming yes.
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: Absolutely. I lost pretty much all of my friends. I
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: had joined the encampment when I was 19 years old
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: in my sophomore year. And all my friends came from
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: the encampment. It felt like a family. So to step
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: away from that was not easy at all. Before I
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: went public, I had actually got to visit Israel and
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: see for myself. And that let me gain the confidence
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: of what I was going to speak. Because after the exhibit,
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: I was confused. But to see it for yourself is
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: completely different. I just know that I just have such
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: strong opinions about people I've never met in a place
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: I've never been. And to you know, be boots on
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: the ground, talking to Israelis, talking to Palestinians, seeing what
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: coexistence does look like in mixed cities, and eventually experiencing
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: a missile myself, I realized, like, you know, our American
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: privilege to be able to call for war during a
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: time of peace, you know?
• 20:07
  Speaker 3: And so.
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: After going through that experience of Israel, I realized I
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: need to start telling people about my experience. Because after
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: I left Israel and I shared on my story where
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: I've been and what I did, I immediately started losing friends,
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: losing people that I've known for years, like since high school,
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: elementary school, from college. Immediately on adding me, blocking me,
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: one of my best friends, like for years, I think
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: 10 years, she decided to ask me like, you know,
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: is this you on this like Israel trip? And then
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: immediately blocked me. And so I'm just like, you know,
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: what does this say about our culture nowadays that we're
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: not even able to argue? We're not even able to
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: like get upset with each other at least and argue
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: it out. they're going straight to no contact. And so
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: I don't know, it's, and it only fuels like to
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: what you said, like this loneliness epidemic, which I think
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: in turn makes people more radicalized. So it's, it's, it
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: was really hard to go through that, but I think it,
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: it pushed me to then start speaking up because there's
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: just so I'm seeing the left get steered off this
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: cliff and I'm trying to course correct before it's too late.
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: And we're seeing these good movements getting hijacked by bad
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: actors and the left, they don't know what's coming. And
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: like what you had said earlier, like being a useful idiot,
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: like I was one of the useful idiots. And so
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: I really want to ensure people know like, hey, it's
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: okay to realize that you made a mistake and admit
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: when you're wrong and to change your mind. There should
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: be no shame in that. And so, yeah, that's what
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: I try to do on my platform and my content creation.
• 22:11
  Speaker 3: You've hit the nail on the head.
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: And before I respond to that point, the point you
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: make about being blocked straight away and this unwillingness to engage,
• 22:20
  Speaker 2: that says so much about a movement. If they're terrified
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: that any challenge to them could destroy them or cause
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: bring people out of this, then it means that they're
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: not standing for anything that is strong. And I, for example,
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: I would love to not look at a million different
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: websites each day because sometimes they challenge me and my view,
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: but I have to, if I want to be honest
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: and I want to make sure that I am always
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: speaking truth, I need to look at everything. And I
• 22:47
  Speaker 2: do that every day and I still go to bed
• 22:49
  Speaker 2: every night. I am on the right side of this.
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: but I will be challenged and I will look at
• 22:54
  Speaker 2: everything and I will constantly investigate because you've got to.
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: The other point I'd make is this is such a
• 23:01
  Speaker 2: crucial point that is not made often enough.
• 23:04
  Speaker 3: There is no shame.
• 23:06
  Speaker 2: There is no shame, particularly if you are a young
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: person who was caught up in this.
• 23:11
  Speaker 3: It is so easy to get caught up in this.
• 23:13
  Speaker 3: And you're right. People are lonely. The world is a
• 23:15
  Speaker 3: hard place. You're looking to belong.
• 23:17
  Speaker 2: You want to feel valued. You want to feel like
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: you're making a difference and, And it's not just these
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: other students here. This movement is sophisticated. There is money
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: coming in from nefarious actors who are very good at manipulation.
• 23:30
  Speaker 3: It's what they do. It's like how you get into
• 23:32
  Speaker 3: bad relationships. They manipulate. So there's no shame.
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: You should have the courage to speak out and you
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: should be respected for that. No one should say, well,
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: you were there so we don't accept. No, that's BS
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: and that should never exist. We can't live in a
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: world like that. So you are such an example of that.
• 23:48
  Speaker 3: Final question to you.
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: No, it's actually incredible because I know how difficult it is. Again,
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: as a woman who's much older than you, as a
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: young person, you are so inspirational.
• 24:00
  Speaker 3: What is your advice?
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: I am hoping so many young people see this, people
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: who maybe are where you were at a few years
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: ago and are starting to question themselves. Or maybe they
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: weren't until they watched you right now and now they're going, okay,
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: this feels uncomfortable.
• 24:16
  Speaker 3: What do I do next? What do they do next?
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: I mean, I would first say, to slow down and
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: understand that there's bigger forces that are going on outside
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: of yourself that are manipulating what you're able to see
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: on your social media, your algorithm and things like that.
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: And I would prioritize mainly learning the stories of the
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: people who actually lived there. Because it's one thing to like,
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: you know, rattle off the history of like, you know, 1948,
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: but it's another thing to actually listen to people's stories,
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: listen to Holocaust survivors, listen to why that they went
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: and moved into Israel, listen to Palestinians who have a
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: different vision of liberation that doesn't require the destruction of Israel.
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: Like listen to all sorts of different perspectives and just
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: have intellectual humility because, again, we are coming from such
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: a privileged place to not have to live through those consequences.
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: So when we're seeing these protesters, they get to go
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: home after. They're untouched by the consequences of what they're
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: calling for. If they're calling for death to Israel, they
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: won't have to attend a single funeral. So I would
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: just say just to have that humbleness of, when you're
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: approaching this type of conversation and just try your best
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: to hold multiple truths at once, because, you know, if
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: you're only insulated by one side, it's really hard to
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: see the other side as human. And at the end
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: of the day, like we are all wanting peace and stability.
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: And so it's just best to remember that.
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: Do you have a beautiful family who supports you and
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: loves you and is proud of you?
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: My family is very beautiful. Uh, As for support, it's
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: kind of difficult just because my mom is just a mom.
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: She's concerned. I get it. I went into college, like Stanford,
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: for pre-med. And now this whole thing kind of changed
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: my plans. And she's just like, why don't you just
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: focus on school? Why are you worried about any of this?
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: It's not your burden to shoulder. And I try to
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: explain to her, like, why it's important, like, for me
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: to do this because, like, I feel like I'm the
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: only one doing it, at least with my own perspective.
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: And so trying to explain that to her, like, we
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: just got death threats and someone had, like, doxxed my address.
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: And my mom, bless her heart, she just, like, she
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: just is so confused on why any of this is
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: going on. And then another aspect of my family, it
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: just really strained my relationship with my brother. After I
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: went to Israel, he stopped talking to me. And I
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: think that I'm definitely not the only person in the
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: world that's dealt with this. These conversations are happening at
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: our dinner tables. These are affecting families and tearing people apart.
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: And so we have to understand what type of movement
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: and cause is supposed to be doing this. And so
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: I don't know. It's just it's it's opened my eyes
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: to a lot. And I and I and I really
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: want people to come together and hopefully bridge the divide.
• 27:45
  Speaker 3: Yeah, do you know what? That is so relatable.
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: And what I would say to you is you are
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: not just here fighting for Israel.
• 27:53
  Speaker 3: You are fighting for America.
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: The people that you are now speaking against want to
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: destroy your country, that your brother lives in, that your
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: mum lives in. And it's hard to see that now
• 28:04
  Speaker 2: for some people, but they will. And from your mother's perspective,
• 28:07
  Speaker 2: I get it. My mum was, you know, Do you
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: need to? This is, you know, this is so hard.
• 28:13
  Speaker 2: Your life is already hard. I don't want your life
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: to be any harder. You know, now she is, watches
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: everything I do, sends me messages after each one. She
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: went to her first, she's not Jewish as well, obviously,
• 28:25
  Speaker 2: her first Jewish event in Canberra in Australia.
• 28:28
  Speaker 3: Maybe six months ago.
• 28:29
  Speaker 2: And eventually people come around and understand and she's super smart.
• 28:35
  Speaker 3: What it's about. Would I be the same with my child? Probably.
• 28:38
  Speaker 2: I'd be like, Eliza, no, just go to school, play
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: with your friends and don't do anything dangerous ever because
• 28:44
  Speaker 2: it terrifies me. But I tell you what, they will
• 28:47
  Speaker 2: understand one day and you will be their hero as
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: I'm sure you already are.
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: You're amazing.
• 28:51
  Speaker 3: I thank you for your voice and your courage. And
• 28:54
  Speaker 3: I'm here anytime.
• 28:55
  Speaker 2: Anytime you want to reach out, I come to the
• 28:57
  Speaker 2: US a lot for work If it's ever hard and
• 28:59
  Speaker 2: you need someone who looks very young but is much
• 29:02
  Speaker 2: older to speak to, you reach out to me anytime.
• 29:04
  Speaker 2: I'm so proud of you and I thank you for
• 29:06
  Speaker 2: sharing your story.
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: Thank you so much. I really appreciate you having me.
• 29:37
  Speaker 3: Thank you.