Latest / aiEDU Studios / Jim Secreto on How U.S. Voters are Making Sense of AI and Education

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Jim Secreto on How U.S. Voters are Making Sense of AI and Education · aiEDU Studios

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: 2027 is going to be the year where dozens of Democratic candidates come out of the woodwork to have a discussion about the future of our country.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_01: They're going to start campaigning in states, including the early voting states.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_01: They are going to talk about AI all the time.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_01: And we are going to have a national conversation about AI, its role in our lives, and what the future looks like because of it.
• 0:36
  Alex Kotran: And maybe you and I can reminisce a little bit about because we've, I mean, you've been in my professional life almost as long as anybody, because you were really the per the person that convinced me not to go to law school.
• 0:47
  Alex Kotran: Um and at the time I was interning at the Department of Energy in the general counsel's office, because I thought I was going to go to law school, and you were in congressional affairs.
• 0:59
  Alex Kotran: That's right.
• 1:00
  Alex Kotran: Yeah.
• 1:00
  Alex Kotran: And so, but you were this ex-lawyer or sort of you were still a lawyer, but like sort of this non-practicing lawyer.
• 1:07
  Alex Kotran: And we went on this walk to it was like in the mall, and you were just like, So why do you want to be a lawyer?
• 1:13
  Alex Kotran: And I was like, well, you know, I just think it'd be cool.
• 1:15
  Alex Kotran: And you're like, you don't want to practice law, and I was like, no, I just I just I want to be in politics.
• 1:20
  Alex Kotran: And you were the one who was just like, well, if you want to be in politics, just get into politics, like just like skip the law school thing.
• 1:26
  Alex Kotran: Um but well, but yeah, for our for our for our viewers, maybe you can share sort of where were you in that like where was that sort of in your own career trajectory, which is obviously really impressive.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_01: Well, not to be sappy, but there's a classic DC line, which is be nice to your interns because they may be your boss someday.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_01: And so you, Alex, uh, I have saw you from being an intern to the leader that you are today and who you've grown into.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_01: And it is amazing to watch.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it's one of the most fulfilling, oh, I'm getting a little sad, uh, professional things that you can see, which is to see someone grow, succeed, do amazing things.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_01: And so I just appreciate still being in your life because you were so successful, because I got to see you go from someone who was a kid to who is now an adult, a thought leader, someone who is kicking ass, taking names in AI, in education.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_01: And that's it's amazing.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think when I think about people that I've met in my professional career who I've stayed in touch with, I just feel so blessed to be able to be part of that because you meet these people along the way and you get to be part of the things that they create in the world, and I think that's very special.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_01: And so that's just something that I appreciate.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_01: We still get to have this relationship and uh to do that.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_01: In law school, right?
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_01: I I didn't love law school, and but I love politics.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, you know, I'm still a lawyer, I'm a member of the bar in good standing.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so, but I I saw that maybe it wasn't the right thing.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_01: I think a lot of times our parents uh want us to do things, or we have pressures in our life or that we think we should do, and being able to step away from that and really get down to our core about what how the life that we want to leave and how we get there.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_01: Law school is just a tool uh that helps us lead the life we want to live.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_01: And if it's not necessary, it's quite expensive.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_01: So understanding that.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_01: Now, it certainly made me, I would say I identify as a democratic strategist, a political operative, a bureaucratic and you know, political thinker, and it's certainly a great tool in that regard.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um, even if I'm not what I would say an article three practicing attorney.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_01: But um you are obviously a great testament that you don't need that stuff to be a leader in policy, or you know, it really is what's the life you want to lead and what's the way to do that.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_01: There's a lot of different paths, and some are less expensive than others.
• 4:09
  Alex Kotran: I mean, I think law school would have still I mean, if if it was free, and maybe if it was just like two years, I think I just would have I mean, I I enjoyed studying for the LSAT.
• 4:20
  Alex Kotran: I just found the the precision of language that was actually what always attracted me to lawyers, is whenever you talk to a lawyer, they have this precision of language, and they really like every every sentence has a purpose and they don't say too much, and I just and I always admired that because I, you know, I was interested in writing and in the humanities, and I just felt like law was sort of the the big leagues for you know for like uh for someone who had an interest in language and an interest in sort of the power of of writing.
• 4:52
  Alex Kotran: And and you know, I was coming up in high, you know, like Obama won his first term right as I graduated high school.
• 4:57
  Alex Kotran: And so, you know, you're watching this, you know, comparative to now young young man, right?
• 5:04
  Alex Kotran: And you know, like blow up into politics on you know, essentially one really, really strong speech that he gave.
• 5:11
  Alex Kotran: And it was just you know, it it felt like this just this world of possibilities.
• 5:18
  Alex Kotran: Um but but you sack you you stepped away from law for the drab beige hallways of government and what is I can only assume a fraction of the the salary and you know no black cars, no fancy client dinners.
• 5:39
  Alex Kotran: Like what drew you to because you you because you were doing congressional affairs at DOE.
• 5:45
  Alex Kotran: What was your sort of initial foray to politics?
• 5:47
  Alex Kotran: Because you said you said you were in in law, and like what was your jump?
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I got interested in politics through political campaigns.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_01: And I was in college, and a friend of mine, a dear friend, said, Hey, you should come volunteer.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_01: I'm working for this candidate who is running for governor, and you would you'd be great.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_01: You you really should help.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, I had been in student government and always interested in finding ways to make the world a better place, to be passionate about uh trying to make an impact.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_01: And politics and campaigns just seemed like that was the way that you could have an impact in the world, you could try to make things better.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_01: And I ended up, I was um the driver, as they call it a body guy for Jennifer Granholm, who was the attorney general of Michigan at the time, but she was the governor, or she was running to be governor, and I drove her around, I had an ill-fitting suit, I was 21 years old, and I was hooked.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it was the most amazing thing to be with a woman who was a great leader and a great candidate.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_01: And we would go from the fanciest fundraiser in Bloomfield Hills, Michigan, where all the rich people live and raise a bunch of money, to a senior center in downtown Detroit where everyone was below the poverty line.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_01: And to watch her interact with people and run to try to make a difference, I was like, I need to be a part of this in any way I can.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_01: And so I I did other things in my life, but I ultimately ended up working on the Kerry campaign, which for people in politics, there's nothing more intriguing and exciting than a presidential campaign because it's the biggest political operation that exists, and it scales from zero to billions of dollars, zero to hundreds and thousands of people, all working on this thing that's really bigger than them, um, trying to do something that's bigger than them.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_01: And I just realized that this is the most impactful thing that you can do in the world.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_01: And I just have to do more of that.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um from that literally caught the you were just addicted.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, and I think look, Republican, Democrat, it doesn't matter for people who who get that bug, who who see it, they're absolutely addicted, and they want to be part of it because it feels like there's nothing more impactful.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_01: And for a brief moment every two years, certainly at the presidential four years, you feel it.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_01: Everybody in the world comes together collectively to make this decision about the future of your country.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I can't think of something that's that's more powerful.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_01: I think some people wish uh they were uh more interested in money um or wealth, but I think impact and uh it there there's nothing there's nothing better.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_01: And so I'd be curious about your experience because you ultimately, you joined the Obama campaign, you were running around the dorm rooms of Columbus, Ohio, you were interacting with your peers and just feeling the sensation of democracy, the buzz of it.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_01: I just um I can't think of it.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_01: It still gets me excited to this day.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_01: I'm still passionate about it.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_01: So curious about your experience um getting into it and how it impacted you and what you do today.
• 9:22
  Alex Kotran: Yeah, I mean the the um I think you were the one who recommended this book, All Too Human, uh by George Stephanopoulos.
• 9:30
  Alex Kotran: This is like he was like Clinton's communications director.
• 9:34
  Alex Kotran: Um it might have been someone else, but yeah, I remember like reading reading that book, and it was like just enough of a taste of like just the yeah, there's nothing quite like being a part of this moment that literally everybody in the entire world is thinking about and talking about.
• 9:57
  Alex Kotran: I mean, like even you know, whether you work for you know these big companies, or just there is I don't think there is any other domain that has more of an attention that has people's attention.
• 10:07
  Alex Kotran: It's just like playing in the Super Bowl, and then you're not gonna be satisfied with anything else than getting getting back into the Super Bowl.
• 10:14
  Alex Kotran: Um and I was in like sort of you know, the I was I was really far away from the principle as you call it.
• 10:21
  Alex Kotran: You know, I I was working yeah, field um at Ohio State, and it was you know, it in in a campaign you sort of have like two different sort of modalities of field.
• 10:30
  Alex Kotran: You have uh, you know, con uh uh persuasion, which is like people going door to door and like asking, like, oh, you know, like you know, have you thought about who you're voting for?
• 10:39
  Alex Kotran: And like, well, like what are your big issues?
• 10:41
  Alex Kotran: Oh, you you know, you care about um, you know, affordability.
• 10:44
  Alex Kotran: Well, did you know that you know so-and-so has actually passed XYZ?
• 10:48
  Alex Kotran: Um at Ohio State, it was entirely turnout.
• 10:52
  Alex Kotran: It's we we know that students are gonna vote overwhelmingly Democrat, and so everything was focused on voter registration.
• 10:59
  Alex Kotran: It's uh admittedly like the the most fun because you're not really getting into debates with people if the campaign is doing their job right, they're giving you a list of like potential voters that are already Democrats, and so for the most part, people were kind of excited that you were at the door, they're like, oh, the Obama campaign.
• 11:17
  Alex Kotran: And so it was you know, you get you just we just had a lot of these like really fun sort of interactions.
• 11:22
  Alex Kotran: Um and you know, I wrote about this, it was the doing turnout at Ohio State, like because we were basically the the I was like on-campus field organizers, so you know I think Ohio State had like 10,000 students living on campus.
• 11:35
  Alex Kotran: Um and so we wanted to make sure they were all registered, and and most of them weren't registered because it was their it would be their first time voting.
• 11:42
  Alex Kotran: Um and so the first few the first month or two was easy because you'd just be going into the dorms and just going door to door, and we were like cleaning house.
• 11:51
  Alex Kotran: And then the Republicans, the you know, the the Ohio State student Republicans got wind that we were going and canvassing and and doing voter reg in the dorms, and they made a whole stink, and they were like, Well, you can't be in the dorm without, you know, it's only someone in the dorm can get in access to the dorm.
• 12:07
  Alex Kotran: This is a security issue.
• 12:08
  Alex Kotran: So, so then my workaround was like, okay, I had to basically find all these interns who lived in each dorm so that I had somebody who because you could let your friends into the dorm, but you had to have somebody right with you.
• 12:20
  Alex Kotran: And it was it was truly a cat and mouse game because even after that, we would have like RAs, and literally we'd be like chasing us.
• 12:26
  Alex Kotran: I mean, it was like a movie, you know, like you'd see the RA at the end of the hallway, and then you'd like run into the stairwell, and then you'd like, you know, you run two floors up, and they'd be calling the other RAs, and you're just sort of running around.
• 12:36
  Alex Kotran: Um it was, I mean, I it was incredibly fun, and like, you know, the uh my my version of this you know intern story, I I was at this um event in DC at the British uh consulate, British British Embassy, um, which is a very famed party.
• 12:52
  Alex Kotran: Getting invited to the British Embassy is like, you know, that's how that's how you know you've made it.
• 12:56
  Alex Kotran: In my case, I just like knew someone who'd made it.
• 12:58
  Alex Kotran: Um and this like young woman came up to me and she's like, I know you.
• 13:02
  Alex Kotran: And I was like, I don't you look familiar, but I have no idea who you are.
• 13:06
  Alex Kotran: And she was like going through like her, you know, like, oh, but did you go to this college?
• 13:09
  Alex Kotran: No.
• 13:10
  Alex Kotran: Did you do this?
• 13:11
  Alex Kotran: No.
• 13:11
  Alex Kotran: And then she finally was like, Well, wait, where did you go to school?
• 13:14
  Alex Kotran: I said, Ohio State.
• 13:15
  Alex Kotran: She's like, wait, I interned for you on the Obama campaign.
• 13:20
  Alex Kotran: I was in, I was in high school at the time, and and then it finally clicked.
• 13:24
  Alex Kotran: And it turns out she was actually, she's a producer at at A at BBC.
• 13:28
  Alex Kotran: You know, Abby, because actually you are a commentator on BBC.
• 13:32
  Alex Kotran: In fact, the the so and then so she calls me one day, she's like, Hey, Alex, do you wanna do you want to come on?
• 13:36
  Alex Kotran: We're talking about AI.
• 13:38
  Alex Kotran: And and it was funny because I was walking to the building and I saw you on the TV, like literally, you walked, we we crossed each other in the elevators.
• 13:45
  Alex Kotran: Um but yeah, I mean, she's you know, this like incredible journalist now, and and it's like a testament to there is that bond that you build because you're like in the trenches, literally working seven days a week, and everybody's sleep deprived and eating bad food, and just you know, but you have like this endpoint.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um I think it self-selects for young people who are just wired in a way who they're ambitious, they're interested in the world, they're willing to work hard for no money.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_01: It takes a certain type of crazy person to be able to do that, but it it attracts people and you end up meeting people who go on and do amazing things, whether that's in politics, whether that's in government, whether that's in business, whether that's in the nonprofit world, but that self-selection mechanism sort of selects for people that I think in your research and your work, when we talk about the types of skills that are gonna be really important in a world where AI is ubiquitous, where the technology is expanding rapidly, I really do think it attracts the type of person who can is well positioned in that world and helps train the type of skills that are gonna be really important in that world.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_01: And I think fundamentally, if you're a people person, if you love people, it just brings you together with people who ultimately do fantastic and wonderful things.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_01: So, my advice to any young person, I guess you took it, was go on a campaign.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_01: You don't need to spend$100,000 in grad school.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_01: You know, roll up the sleeves, participate in democracy, and I think that takes young people on a journey that can be so fulfilling in their life.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_01: And so that's don't go to grad school, join a campaign.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_01: It should always be what you tell people to do.
• 15:47
  Alex Kotran: But and it's like this is really important because I think a lot of people say, well, you know, I don't know if grad school is important, but it's about the network, you know, it's about the people you meet.
• 15:55
  Alex Kotran: And and then there is this like class uh divide because not everybody can afford to go to a prestigious grad school.
• 16:02
  Alex Kotran: Um but you meet a bunch of incredible people on a campaign and you don't need any money to go and work on a campaign.
• 16:10
  Alex Kotran: And it is, I would argue, I mean, I don't know if this is the case for you.
• 16:13
  Alex Kotran: I think for me, if I see somebody who's worked on a on a you know, on a statewide or a president, honestly any campaign, but especially like an intense campaign, it's not just like it the level of bona fides that they get is uh is far more um uh pr pronounced than like you know, now I see someone went to Harvard and I'm like, I don't, I mean, I don't really know if that's like how how many bonus points do you get for that?
• 16:38
  Alex Kotran: I mean, I I it the campaign is unequivocal.
• 16:42
  Alex Kotran: You can't really coast on a campaign.
• 16:45
  Alex Kotran: It's just like there's no there's nowhere to hide.
• 16:47
  Alex Kotran: Like you're you're gonna be working a lot and and then you might not survive on the you know, you might quit.
• 16:51
  Alex Kotran: And so, you know, it's but I yeah, that's self-selection.
• 16:55
  Alex Kotran: Um do you think it's worth like if somebody's like, well, I just don't really care about politics, but maybe they're I mean, you know, we have a presidential coming up, and maybe you can talk a little bit about the timing for that.
• 17:07
  Alex Kotran: But you know, if somebody's a you know, a junior or maybe a sophomore, maybe a senior in high school right now, and they're wondering, like, you know, I was thinking about taking some time before deciding what to major in.
• 17:19
  Alex Kotran: Like, is how should they think about, you know, like how do they even go about the process of kind of figuring out should I should I should they do this, you know, between high school and college?
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_01: Certainly it's not going to be for everybody.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_01: And we have to respect that, we have to understand that.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_01: There's a lot of different ways that you can serve your community.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_01: And I think participating in campaigns and democracy is a is one I certainly recommend, but it it certainly is not for everyone.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_01: So there are other ways to be civically minded, and I think that's so important in an era where technology is so ubiquitous and we are stuck on our phones, we are connected digitally, but we feel disconnected personally.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_01: And so, this idea of serving your community and finding a civic good, sometimes you gotta go touch grass.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_01: You gotta get out there and um do it in the analog world.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_01: And so you don't have to join a campaign, but I think figuring out a way to serve your community um in any way and get off our devices and go be with other people.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_01: It can be going to uh you know, a city council meeting, school board meeting.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it can be going to a soup kitchen.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_01: There's so many different ways to connect and serve.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_01: I get, I mean, if I really had to boil this down, it's serving something that's bigger than yourself.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and of course, sometimes people are personally motivated to doing that, but getting to work for something that's bigger than you for a greater cause, I think that's what brings meaning to life.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_01: And there's a lot of different ways for young people to achieve that.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_01: And I think I think we've failed when it comes to policymakers and people in DC to for providing opportunities to do that.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_01: And I think a huge issue is finding ways for people, especially as the business model of higher education comes under greater and greater strain, the cost goes up.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_01: We're desperate for finding ways for people to do that.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_01: And maybe it's a form of national service.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_01: Not everyone's gonna join the military, not everyone's gonna do the Peace Corps, not everyone's gonna do AmeriCorps, but I I I really do think that we need to find ways for young people to serve, and we got to make it easy for them to do that.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_01: And uh it's certainly something that I, if I had a magic wand, I would definitely focus on pathways to be able for young people to do that.
• 20:09
  Alex Kotran: I would argue that it's it's not that it's not easy to do.
• 20:12
  Alex Kotran: I mean, I think you could literally go to almost any center in your community, whether that's a senior living home, a um, you know, affordable housing unit.
• 20:21
  Alex Kotran: I was just talking to uh um Boca T Washington and a uh a nonprofit in San Francisco that serves, I think like several hundred students that are also in um uh uh underserved parts of the city.
• 20:35
  Alex Kotran: I mean, and they're all would be thrilled to have, I mean, if a high school student showed up and said, hey, I just like want to find a way to help.
• 20:40
  Alex Kotran: I mean, you're you're not they're not gonna turn you away.
• 20:42
  Alex Kotran: I think there's just, you know, like when I was in high school, it was the same thing doctor, lawyer, maybe engineer.
• 20:49
  Alex Kotran: I think even my parents at the time, you know, bless their heart, but like I think even if I'd gone to engineering school, they would have been, okay, they've okay, but you know, you could still go to law or med school afterward, or you could be an IP attorney.
• 20:59
  Alex Kotran: Like, I think there was just this obsession, right, with like the cachet.
• 21:03
  Alex Kotran: And I kind of have this wondering about why is it that we don't honor like somebody who goes and like becomes a force for their community.
• 21:17
  Alex Kotran: There isn't that same prestige, you know.
• 21:19
  Alex Kotran: It's like, why do you have to leave and go to Harvard or go to California?
• 21:23
  Alex Kotran: You know, I'm from Ohio, so I have like I've I've seen this firsthand, you know, like this idea that like if you stayed in Ohio, people were like, oh, okay.
• 21:30
  Alex Kotran: You know, when I and I when I would tell people I went to Ohio State in DC, people would almost be embarrassed they asked because I think they were like expecting me to say like uh an Ivy League school.
• 21:40
  Alex Kotran: And then I would say Ohio State, and they're like, oh yeah, yeah, it's a good school, it's a really good school.
• 21:44
  Alex Kotran: And I'm like, it's okay, yeah, it's like you know, 55, it's not it's good enough.
• 21:49
  Alex Kotran: But I I think people just they're so oriented towards towards like yeah, like um okay, so we've I I want to dive into the act, like there's Like so much to talk about.
• 22:00
  Alex Kotran: I mean, I think you know, Jim, I'm gonna offer this, and maybe you and I can work together if there's like any.
• 22:07
  Alex Kotran: But if you're a student and you're wondering, like, hey, I just I'd love to kind of hear a bit more about how what I can do.
• 22:13
  Alex Kotran: Um, you know, maybe as a follow-up, even we could think about like a more targeted conversation about you know what some of the pathways from high school.
• 22:21
  Alex Kotran: Um we do have the midterms next uh in in 13 days.
• 22:25
  Alex Kotran: And can you just give I mean I've I actually haven't had a chance to look at the polling for a couple days now.
• 22:31
  Alex Kotran: I I'm what is the state of play?
• 22:33
  Alex Kotran: I mean, clearly there's you know, Democrats are doing well, but I can you put this into some context?
• 22:42
  Alex Kotran: And then why is this important in this specific moment?
• 22:44
  Alex Kotran: Because I think there seems to be a lot of attention on these midterms, maybe more so than usual.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_01: Well, it it starts and ends with President Donald Trump and the job that he's done in his administration, and we're in year six, we're we're we're we're in year 10 of his impact on American public life, and he has been one of the most impactful but also decisive political figures in generations.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_01: And so the stakes are always high, but in this particular election, how he's governed has certainly mobilized a lot of people on the left and in the Democratic Party who are very upset about what's happening and they're extremely motivated to vote.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_01: And that's why you see with polls, uh, Democrats are posed to make big gains.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_01: They're likely to take the House, they're now favored to take the Senate, but it's it's a lot closer.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_01: And so fundamentally, we're going to have a change in power in Washington, D.C.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_01: that's gonna have an impact on policy.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_01: It's gonna have an impact on the future of our country.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_01: And I think we've talked about this.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_01: What is very intriguing to me is that this is the first election where AI is really on the ballot.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_01: This is going to be the first election where AI is a kitchen table issue, and people who are not necessarily steeped in the technology, like someone like yourself, are thinking about the role of technology in their life, the impact that it's having, and it's affecting their vote.
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_01: And for me, that's a that's a fascinating question as someone who loves politics, but is definitely watching closely what's happening with technology, with artificial intelligence.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_01: So I think there's a confluence of factors that are bringing together a fascinating election that's gonna have real impact on people's lives.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_01: And so that that's that's where I think we're at today.
• 24:54
  Alex Kotran: I mean, and you totally called.
• 24:55
  Alex Kotran: I mean, we were we were chatting about this, I think it was almost a full year ago.
• 25:00
  Alex Kotran: And your prediction was that the midterms will be because basically, I mean, up until this moment, people were not talking about AI.
• 25:10
  Alex Kotran: I mean, like, AI was very low on I think it was like I think out of like 25 voter concerns, it was like 22 or something like that.
• 25:18
  Alex Kotran: Um it was it was getting a lot of attention in Silicon Valley and in obviously investors.
• 25:23
  Alex Kotran: Um but you know, people on Main Street as uh to put in DC parlance were just not really engaged in the topic.
• 25:31
  Alex Kotran: My favorite stat, by the way, is um my my stat of the day is uh more Americans are on GLP ones than currently paying for a uh uh an AI service.
• 25:45
  Alex Kotran: Right?
• 25:46
  Alex Kotran: So it's like um and then something happened and it was it feels like almost like June.
• 25:53
  Alex Kotran: It was like the mid- the primaries.
• 25:56
  Alex Kotran: And it data center, I mean I feel like was it like the data center issue that started?
• 26:02
  Alex Kotran: I mean, those were the data centers weren't new, but suddenly it kind of like was getting national coverage.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_01: That's right.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_01: And just as a you know bit of background, is I was very fortunate to do 15 years in government, all as a political appointee.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_01: I got to work in the Obama administration, the United States Senate, and in the Biden administration.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_01: And I got to work for a wonderful leader by the name of Gina Raimondo, who was the Secretary of Commerce, the sec for tech, a very forward-thinking leader who took, was deeply involved in artificial intelligence, our policy toward it.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_01: And so when I worked for her in 2024, it felt as if I had a peek into the future because every big hyperscaler AI company, semiconductor company was coming through the door to talk to Secretary Raimundo, because it turned out that this stodgy old agency that was created over a hundred years ago primarily to regulate steamships suddenly became the regulator of semiconductors and a key essential component to the future of artificial intelligence.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_01: And so, whether it was the technology companies or the investors who were planning for what they saw was a multi-trillion dollar build-out, wanted to understand the policy of the United States so that they could make those investments and you know, through scale of compute, the future of AI.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_01: And so I felt deeply honored to be able to have a peek into that future and understand what was happening.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_01: And once you overlay that onto our politics, you could see is that once those dollars got to be once those dollars started getting spent, um, particularly in the AI build-out, I think that's where it became real for a lot of people.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_01: And it went from a theoretical point or a deck on a private equity or investment bank or a lab in the mission, an SF, into people's lives across the country.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_01: Because we haven't seen an infrastructure build-out on this level since we built the railroads.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_01: Even the interstate highway system doesn't come close to how much money and the impact we are doing.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_01: So that's when people started to say, hey, what's going on here?
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_01: And the technology improved.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, you saw it just through the timeline start to come into people's workplaces.
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_01: You see it every day, how it comes into the classroom, and then it came into people's neighborhoods.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that sparked a national, international conversation about this topic in ways that had never happened before.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_01: And so that's we we saw it, and as voters and people in their community started to experience it, politicians started to respond to it as well.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_01: And that's how you saw it become part of the national political conversation.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_01: It's why it's on the ballot this election, and it's why it's going to be a key component of the presidential primaries that are going to start the day after this election.
• 29:22
  Alex Kotran: Yeah, I mean I want to talk about the presidential.
• 29:25
  Alex Kotran: Um, but I think it's important like this, like the Rubicon of going into mainstream politics.
• 29:35
  Alex Kotran: Like why that's important is because you're describing sort of this reinforcing cycle where politicians notice that voters care about this.
• 29:45
  Alex Kotran: And so they, and not all, but all you need is one really sort of enterprising candidate to see, you know, this is an opportunity for me to plant a flag on this issue, and then suddenly now they've planted this flag, and then their opponent now has to make a has to respond.
• 30:03
  Alex Kotran: And then there is more attention on it because you have, you know, like this sort of uh almost like cascade of you know political actors that are like staking positions, and then you have social media, and I think I think for me, what you know sort of layered on all of that is like you know, TikTok.
• 30:20
  Alex Kotran: When I when I go on like social media, you know, most of the AI stuff that I see is about data centers, it's about, you know, I think flock surveillance cameras, by the way, also that was sort of like the the new the next wave of anti-AI uh anger is like, you know, like there's like this Darth Vader figure, like guy dressed up as Darth Vader.
• 30:39
  Alex Kotran: Did you see this?
• 30:40
  Alex Kotran: He he showed up to a uh a city council meeting, and he's like, We love flock cameras, like flock cameras is perfect so we can spy on children and the gymnasiums and schoolyards, and like and it was this like sort of caricature, but it went viral, you know, and like everybody's starting to see this.
• 30:59
  Alex Kotran: And you know, it's like I think people in the AI space and even in the education space, I don't know that they fully grasped that the vast majority of people, their most recent interaction with any content about AI was a negatively framed piece of content about a data center or a flock camera or maybe Chat GPT and kids cheating, you know.
• 31:22
  Alex Kotran: And so whenever I hear people say, Oh, we need to tell this you know positive story of AI, I'm just like, you're trying to compete with like the most powerful and ubiquitous social media channels on earth that have the ability to flood the zone with content that is naturally rewards negative content that makes people angry, like you have no chance.
• 31:44
  Alex Kotran: Um I think politics politicians know that, right?
• 31:48
  Alex Kotran: So politicians are they are reacting to the the wave of of sentiment, not trying to change voters' minds.
• 31:55
  Alex Kotran: I mean, I think that's sort of like one of the things you learn in politics is like you have limited scope to actually change people's minds.
• 32:00
  Alex Kotran: You have to figure out how do I communicate and connect to the concerns that they have.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_01: That's absolutely correct.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_01: And the way I would put it is the role of that technology plays in the lives of Americans has been cumulatively increasing over the past 20 years, and Americans are started somewhat ambivalent, but now have really deep concerns about the role that technology plays in their lives.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_01: And that goes from the gambut for its impact on inequality, uh, how it affects their children in the classroom, how it impacts their job, and now how it impacts their neighborhood and the physical infrastructure of the world around them.
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_01: And people have very legitimate concerns about is this helping me or is this hurting me?
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_01: And politicians respond to their constituents.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_01: In the political economy of getting elected, you have to be responsive to the concerns of the people around you.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_01: Certainly, social media was at the tip of the spear about how technological change has impacted people's lives.
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_01: And it certainly has changed the information environment in which we exist, and therefore how politicians and other people communicate with each other, uh, and how people what people read, what people see, it's had a profound impact on people, and therefore it's had a profound impact on our democracy.
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_01: And um, I think people have real and legitimate questions that they want to understand uh about uh their future.
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_01: And if they don't think it's working for them, they're gonna find ways to politicians are gonna be responsive to that anger.
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_01: But I will say, you know, this is an extremely important issue to figure out because technology is a source of our national strength, it's a key component of our national security, it's a primary driver of our economy.
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_01: And I have an optimistic vision of the future.
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_01: I think all these things are important, but I think we do need to think about its impact on people, because if you do not have the consent of the governed and we are not being responsive to the concerns that people have, this is when things start to go off the rails.
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_01: And I think in this election, you're starting to see people address that.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_01: That goes with data centers, which we talked about.
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_01: You know, people might be a little skeptical about data centers at first, but if there are guardrails in place, if the developers in the communities take steps to improve the lives of the communities, people change and they're more open to it, whether it's because of tax revenues, because the positive impact.
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_01: But I think it's it's dependent on the folks in the tech industry uh to to be able to make that case.
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_01: But you're absolutely right.
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_01: You can't just have a bunch of pretty vi videos.
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_01: You really have to get to the core of what people are experiencing in their in their lived experience and speak to that.
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's incredibly important.
• 35:34
  Alex Kotran: Yeah, I mean, and even I think, you know, I've been to I I spent a lot of time in Ohio, and you know, it's it's interesting because being in California, there's this whole narrative about Trump voters and MAGA and um and and and and then you go to Ohio, and I and I would always leave with the sense of you know, I completely understand how someone could get to a place where they are basically like F the government, F the establishment, burn it all down, drain the swamp, because you know, they may not understand the niceties of politics and economics, but they're watching their wages stagnate against prices.
• 36:21
  Alex Kotran: They're watching opportunity, they're watching all this money.
• 36:25
  Alex Kotran: Like it's like all these companies are getting rich and all these billionaires are becoming trillionaires, and they're not seeing any of it.
• 36:32
  Alex Kotran: And, you know, the the the I think it's been a huge miss in general, right?
• 36:40
  Alex Kotran: Like for the the elites, as it were.
• 36:43
  Alex Kotran: Um to, you know, they they have ignored it at their peril.
• 36:48
  Alex Kotran: And at data centers, yeah.
• 36:49
  Alex Kotran: I mean, what I'm hearing from you is basically these data centers are almost like these physical monoliths that now embody the broader anxiety about just sort of like the future is running away from us.
• 37:02
  Alex Kotran: And all of this technology that's been sort of building, and this all this anxiety that's been building, it's sort of coming to a head.
• 37:09
  Alex Kotran: And now there's this like big ugly building in your backyard that you can actually go and like literally like shake a pitchfork at, whereas before it was a much more, you know, it was in the cloud, it was sort of in Silicon Valley, and so it was really hard to really who am I angry at?
• 37:22
  Alex Kotran: And now it's like, oh, I have this.
• 37:23
  Alex Kotran: So what if how what has happened?
• 37:26
  Alex Kotran: I mean, have candidates actually come out against data centers?
• 37:29
  Alex Kotran: I mean, are are there pro-data center candidates, or is everybody kind of like trying to stake their own kind of like qualified opposition?
• 37:39
  SPEAKER_01: So it's a mix, and there are a lot of pro-data center candidates.
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_01: There are certainly people that understand the importance of data centers, that we need to build them here.
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_01: We don't want them built in China or the UAE or Saudi Arabia, the tax revenues that they can bring to people, they can be very positive as we reindustrialize our country.
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_01: We absolutely need data centers.
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_01: But I think you're right that it speaks to an underlying anxiety about our place in the world, about the role of technology, and who we are as people.
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's really important.
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_01: And I think particularly people who have been successful in life, who have been upwardly mobile, and I count you in that category, I count myself in that.
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_01: I grew up in Detroit.
• 38:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, I was not from an elite background.
• 38:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I was blessed with smart and loving parents, and because that was able to claw my way into whatever you want to call the coastal elitist success or a world that I'm still not always fully comfortable in, but um through sheer hustle and brain power was able to achieve.
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_01: And that that's that upward mobility is a part of the American dream.
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_01: And I feel so lucky to be part of that.
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_01: But I think what people need to expand, especially people who have been successful in life, is a lot of people feel a different story.
• 39:13
  SPEAKER_01: And that's a story of downward mobility.
• 39:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's a story of not being as successful as their parents.
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_01: That's a story of not being able to afford a home or achieve a white-collar job that pays them a living wage.
• 39:27
  SPEAKER_01: And that can have profound consequences for our politics.
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_01: And frankly, it's led to a lot of nihilism for people that kind of feel like, well, if the system isn't working for me, who cares?
• 39:41
  SPEAKER_01: Let's burn it all down and have a party while we do it.
• 39:44
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's that's something that's very dangerous.
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_01: It's something that politicians in both parties haven't necessarily addressed.
• 39:54
  SPEAKER_01: It speaks directly to the rise of Donald Trump.
• 39:57
  SPEAKER_01: You know, Donald Trump.
• 39:58
  Alex Kotran: Unquestionably.
• 39:59
  Alex Kotran: Unquestionably.
• 40:01
  Alex Kotran: You actually can look, there's a map of the of the uh the districts that swung for Trump in 2024, and it almost perfectly overlaps with a map of the counties that have experienced the most job loss due to automation.
• 40:17
  Alex Kotran: It is it is like the people are they are they are watching the world run away from them and they just have less to lose.
• 40:25
  Alex Kotran: It's like, you know, if you are struggling to find a job and you can't pay for health insurance, you know, there's you don't have that much to protect.
• 40:35
  Alex Kotran: I mean, I think people forget that like most Americans are, I mean, I think it's like couldn't afford I think the majority of Americans couldn't afford a$2,000 emergency expense that they would like literally not be able to pay for that emergency expense, whether it's like a car repair or a medical bill.
• 40:54
  Alex Kotran: And so like that's a lot of anxiety to sit with, especially if you're a parent and you have a family.
• 40:59
  Alex Kotran: And so yeah, people are gonna be but but you said something that's important, which is the paradox is the best shot we have at bringing more wealth to more parts of the country, there is no path to that that doesn't in some way involve technology, and so this is sort of what we have to figure out, which is you know, right now there's this sort of concentration effect happening with technology, and and yet it's hard to imagine anything else that we could do.
• 41:35
  Alex Kotran: We're not gonna become a manufacturing center.
• 41:37
  Alex Kotran: You know, we are a post-industrial economy, and we we might have some industrialization, you know, data centers maybe being an example, but um so so so unfortunately, even though it's a rational response to be skeptical of technology and maybe even angry, I worry that that if people shut themselves off to those opportunities, then they are certain to be left behind, right?
• 42:02
  Alex Kotran: Like it's it's you know, um and I find that very hard, right?
• 42:06
  Alex Kotran: How do you go to somebody and try to win them over without coming across as like, I'm not a shill for this technology?
• 42:14
  Alex Kotran: And I think this is something we've been really trying to figure out ourselves, which is like, you know, we're not going to parents and schools and saying, hey, AI is awesome and you should all just be using AI.
• 42:23
  Alex Kotran: And yet we also really believe that you know we need to make sure kids are ready for the world of AI, and part of that probably does involve certainly the teachers understanding this stuff, and eventually the kids, I don't know that you can graduate high school without getting hands-on in some way.
• 42:36
  Alex Kotran: And so that's like that's been like a very complicated tightrope to walk.
• 42:42
  SPEAKER_01: That's absolutely right.
• 42:44
  SPEAKER_01: The genie is not going back in the bottle.
• 42:47
  SPEAKER_01: Technology is here to stay, and in fact, it's going to increase it rapidly.
• 42:53
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's that's something that for you in San Francisco and being so close to it can understand and maybe see the future in a way and why you have such urgency to think about what we need to do to be able to square this circle in a way that helps the people involved.
• 43:15
  SPEAKER_01: Because when people are angry, when they're nihilistic, what happens is populist uh approaches that feel good, let's have a moratorium on data centers.
• 43:28
  SPEAKER_01: I couldn't think of a worse thing for our national power, for our economy, but if that's a way to sort of lash out and so that you feel heard, certainly people are going to be attracted to that.
• 43:42
  SPEAKER_01: And if if the response on the other side is, you know, this is just a Chinese PSYOP, and you know, these are illegitimate concerns, and we're a bunch of accelerationists, well, that's not going to be particularly helpful or popular either.
• 43:58
  SPEAKER_01: And so again, like Secretary Raimondo, what she says, which I I really agree with, is you know, we have a a tech plan on AI, but we don't have a people plan.
• 44:09
  SPEAKER_01: And I think when we talk about our broken politics in the solution, is finding a people plan and giving people real solutions are extremely important.
• 44:21
  SPEAKER_01: And that's why I've been so impressed with the work that you've done at AI EDU, because it starts with the premise that the technology is not going away, that if you ban it, it just goes underground.
• 44:36
  SPEAKER_01: And so we need our students to be AI literate.
• 44:39
  SPEAKER_01: We need them to be AI ready.
• 44:40
  SPEAKER_01: We need to understand the skills that are going to be essential to the future, because that's how we prepare ourselves and come out on the other side better off than we were.
• 44:52
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it's incumbent on politicians and both parties to be able to articulate a vision and a set of policies that achieves that goal.
• 45:01
  SPEAKER_01: Because if what you're handing people is a terrible dystopian future of which they have no role, autonomy, or control, of course they're going to burn it all down.
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_01: And that's why fundamentally we have to figure out this problem in a way where people end up better off than they are today.
• 45:21
  SPEAKER_01: And so I can't think of a more compelling and pressing issue that you could work on today.
• 45:27
  SPEAKER_01: And that's why I spend a lot of my time thinking about the politics of AI, technology, its impact on people, and how that changes our political system.
• 45:38
  SPEAKER_01: The last thing I'll say in that is, you know, Donald Trump is usually the the he how do I say this?
• 45:48
  SPEAKER_01: Donald Trump is usually the wrong answer to the right question.
• 45:52
  SPEAKER_01: And the things that he's raised and that he's gotten support is things that maybe people who the elites who are in both parties had ignored for too long.
• 46:05
  SPEAKER_01: It's just that the solutions don't actually make us better off.
• 46:11
  SPEAKER_01: They take us down a path that is leaves us worse off than not better off.
• 46:15
  SPEAKER_01: And so the wisdom is Donald Trump is like we actually need to be focusing on some of these issues that people are deeply uh care about.
• 46:26
  SPEAKER_01: But we actually need to find solutions that improve our lives, not just sort of increase the levels of divisiveness and nihilism that are endemic in our in our culture.
• 46:40
  Alex Kotran: Yeah, I mean I'd love to try to like dig into just sort of the politics of AI right now, because I mean right now I think it's you saw in the primaries you mentioned the um you know blaming the protesters on being sort of like shills, like you know, China plants.
• 46:56
  Alex Kotran: This was um uh in in Utah, there was like a 40,000-acre uh data center development that um was getting just some small local opposition and people were protesting it.
• 47:11
  Alex Kotran: And Kevin O'Leary was one of the backers of this data center, and he went on like a cable news spree, and he was just like, Oh, these protesters are just I think they're paid for by China.
• 47:21
  Alex Kotran: He didn't have any evidences, but this he was just sort of making the claim as sort of like pointing, just raising it as a possibility over and over again.
• 47:29
  Alex Kotran: Um and I think this is an example of like the miscalculation of the the public mood because he went on cable news, which mostly skews at this point.
• 47:42
  Alex Kotran: I think the average viewer of Fox News is like 65 or something like that.
• 47:46
  Alex Kotran: It's um but then all of his all of his appearances got clipped by TikTok and Instagram reels, and then the reaction videos blew up.
• 47:57
  Alex Kotran: And so you had these protesters who were like, you know, you juxtaposed Kevin O'Leary claiming that they're all from China, and then you have the protesters like, look at me, I'm not from China, here's actually why I care about this.
• 48:08
  Alex Kotran: And the impressions, and this is the mis this is what happened with the the 2024 election where Kamala Harris went on The View on Good Morning America and on um uh there was one other sort of like one of the big like the the big marquee broadcast um uh uh uh channels that you that you could get.
• 48:28
  Alex Kotran: And in a single interview with Joe Rogan, Trump got like four times as many impressions, not including all of the clips, and which is probably an order of magnitude more.
• 48:40
  Alex Kotran: And everybody was like, How did they do it?
• 48:42
  Alex Kotran: And like it's and it's like for me, I was on a lot of these channels, and I was like, the the Republicans were were completely I mean they and the Republicans also built the actual media infrastructure.
• 48:53
  Alex Kotran: They like they were setting up all of these channels, and you had this sort of flood of uh you know young entrepreneurial folks who were creating, you know, essentially this sort of like shadow like network.
• 49:06
  Alex Kotran: Um and I just don't know that and I think the left is still reeling from that.
• 49:10
  Alex Kotran: Like people talk about the manosphere, and like it's not that there isn't a way to talk to young men without you know a sort of masochistic viewpoint, but it's just we there there there wasn't this uh understanding of like, oh, we actually you know we can't just play use the old playbook.
• 49:28
  Alex Kotran: And so I see this with with AI now where okay, you you're gonna have the data centers.
• 49:36
  Alex Kotran: I mean the midterm is really close, so maybe it's worth talking about maybe maybe making if you're if you're up for it, we could make some predictions.
• 49:42
  Alex Kotran: Or really, I'm gonna lean on you, but I have my own thoughts.
• 49:45
  Alex Kotran: We can make some predictions, and and then you just look at the polling.
• 49:48
  Alex Kotran: I just want just to uh the Democrats are favored to take the House.
• 49:53
  Alex Kotran: Um it's looking like a projection of between 10 to 20 seats in the House, three to five Senate seats.
• 49:59
  Alex Kotran: Democrats need uh three House seats to flip in order to take the House.
• 50:04
  Alex Kotran: They need four Senate seats.
• 50:05
  Alex Kotran: So the Senate is truly uh a question mark.
• 50:09
  Alex Kotran: Um and the polling's gotten better.
• 50:11
  Alex Kotran: Right now, Democrats have a D plus 9, so like a nine-point average.
• 50:18
  Alex Kotran: Um and the newest polls are are also showing a consolidation of that sort of shift to left.
• 50:25
  Alex Kotran: Um and early voting, you know, it's looking strong, especially relative to 2024.
• 50:31
  Alex Kotran: So, you know, it it it you always have this phenomenon where the Democrats are ahead in early voting, but we can look at the relative margin.
• 50:38
  Alex Kotran: And so compared to 2024, early voting margins are significantly higher, certainly in Virginia, although I think in Florida that's not necessarily the case.
• 50:46
  Alex Kotran: North Carolina leans heavily Democratic.
• 50:50
  Alex Kotran: So let's just, I mean, feel free to if you have a a contrarian view over the outcome, but I for perhaps we can sort of take for granted that the Democrats take the House, and maybe we can talk about whether or not they take the Senate and sort of what might play out, but what will the what will happen in DC?
• 51:08
  Alex Kotran: And also, like, do you think people are like do you think like technology companies and sort of like all the different folks who are in the mix here are ready for what what might come to pass?
• 51:18
  SPEAKER_01: So let's break that down in a couple ways.
• 51:20
  SPEAKER_01: Uh the structural environment, and you're absolutely right that the party that's out of power typically does well in a midterm election.
• 51:30
  SPEAKER_01: You have to go back decades to see that uh a president in a midterm election actually gain seats.
• 51:38
  SPEAKER_01: The only time in really in my lifetime was President George W.
• 51:43
  SPEAKER_01: Bush after 9-11 won seats for the Republicans in 2002.
• 51:50
  SPEAKER_01: But virtually every president loses seats in the midterms, and there's a lot of reasons for that.
• 51:56
  SPEAKER_01: And partly it's because uh the party in power gets complacent, they own all the problems of government, their voters can stay home, and that can have a real impact on turnout and always gives an advantage to the party that is out of power.
• 52:14
  SPEAKER_01: So that's the structural issue.
• 52:18
  SPEAKER_01: But then when you go individual by individual race, I'm a strong believer in the efficacy of campaigns and that candidates matter.
• 52:29
  SPEAKER_01: Candidates can run good campaigns, they can run bad campaigns.
• 52:33
  SPEAKER_01: And good candidates can win in bad environments, uh, but bad candidates have a tough time even in good environments.
• 52:42
  SPEAKER_01: And so if you go race by race for the Democrats, certainly they have recruited some high-quality candidates that are doing a good job.
• 52:53
  SPEAKER_01: And I think have an easier time.
• 52:56
  SPEAKER_01: Uh it's easy to argue about what the president has done, uh, inflation, affordability.
• 53:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um that is a huge issue that affects people's individual lives.
• 53:08
  SPEAKER_01: And so the that they can run on things like affordability, the cost of gas that are real.
• 53:15
  SPEAKER_01: And um Democrats have had a lot of success with that.
• 53:20
  SPEAKER_01: And that's why, even in the Senate, in some of the red states, you're seeing uh some amazing Democratic candidates that are giving Republicans a run for their money.
• 53:31
  SPEAKER_01: And that's even places like Kansas, where uh the Democratic candidate uh is doing a fabulous job.
• 53:38
  SPEAKER_01: He's a uh a man of faith, he's perfect for the state, and he his opponent was sort of asleep at the wheel and hadn't done so that job.
• 53:49
  SPEAKER_01: Whereas if you see Michigan, um you see the Democratic candidate struggling a little bit because of his own persona, because of Republican attacks.
• 54:01
  SPEAKER_01: And so the Senate is close, it's gonna come down to the wire, but you see enough candidates that are doing a successful job uh that uh it's likely that the Democrats might even take that in a in an election cycle where when to start there there wasn't even uh a hope and a prayer that that would happen.
• 54:23
  Alex Kotran: So what what happens when maybe we can start with Democrats take the House but not the Senate?
• 54:30
  Alex Kotran: And then we can talk about if there's a sweep.
• 54:33
  Alex Kotran: Um what changes and what doesn't change on November 4?
• 54:41
  Alex Kotran: Or I guess January 1, right?
• 54:42
  Alex Kotran: Because it the the they get sworn in or actually January, I think towards the end of January is the the next Congress starts.
• 54:49
  Alex Kotran: I it's been a while since I've been in DC.
• 54:51
  Alex Kotran: I forget all the details, there's so many arcane details.
• 54:54
  SPEAKER_01: We call it the lame duck, Alex, which is a very interesting liminal space between an election and taking over.
• 55:03
  SPEAKER_01: It's for the party that loses, it's like the worst wake in the world, where you you know you've already lost your job, but you got to get some work done.
• 55:11
  SPEAKER_01: Historically, that's been a time where people in DC have cut deals.
• 55:16
  SPEAKER_01: But because Donald Trump has not shown much interest in working with Democrats, it's probably not gonna happen this time.
• 55:25
  SPEAKER_01: But for me, what what I think will be interesting is Democrats, we talk a lot about congressional oversight and investigations, because that's a power that Democrats in the House or the Senate can exercise unilaterally and to be able to hold hearings, to investigate what's going on.
• 55:45
  SPEAKER_01: And that's why you see a lot of focus on what's going to happen in DC and uh because people have kind of given up on the idea that Democrats and Republicans might pass legislation, might reach across the aisle to do that.
• 56:00
  SPEAKER_01: And so the focus has been on oversight and investigations.
• 56:04
  SPEAKER_01: For me, that's fascinating because I think that we are going to have a focus in Congress on AI and technology like we have never seen before.
• 56:16
  SPEAKER_01: The joke is that every committee is going to be a tech and AI committee in 2027 because it doesn't matter if it's Edin Workforce, we want to talk about education and AI.
• 56:27
  SPEAKER_01: It doesn't matter if it's a House Science Committee, we want to talk about RD and the role of the AI labs and what they're using, to things like AI in our military and how it's used in the armed services.
• 56:39
  SPEAKER_01: And so this is the first time that Democrats are really gonna have gavels since Chat GPT came out in the end of 2022.
• 56:48
  SPEAKER_01: And so you're gonna see that, and you might see some Republicans, some strange belt bedfellas, cross the aisle to um look at these issues, whether that's semiconductor companies, whether that's AI labs.
• 57:03
  SPEAKER_01: And so I don't think the valley is ready for what is about to come and hit them.
• 57:09
  SPEAKER_01: And they better get their you know upgrades on United for those flights from SFO because they're gonna be testifying before Congress all the time.
• 57:18
  SPEAKER_01: But here's the one thing Donald Trump, you know, he can hate you one day and love you the other.
• 57:24
  SPEAKER_01: And I just, there might be a part of them that says, let me cut a deal.
• 57:29
  SPEAKER_01: Let's pass some legislation here.
• 57:31
  SPEAKER_01: We are certainly desperate for that in AI.
• 57:34
  SPEAKER_01: We are trying to regulate a 21st century technology with 20th century laws, and that is a disservice to every American.
• 57:43
  SPEAKER_01: And it's extremely important that people find ways to come together, even in small ways to pass laws.
• 57:49
  SPEAKER_01: So I never give up on that.
• 57:52
  SPEAKER_01: Even as a partisan Democrat, I am constantly thinking about how you can grow the pie, bring people in.
• 57:59
  SPEAKER_01: And so I'm gonna be watching very closely of whether or not legislation can move generally, but particularly on issues like AI, given how the gravity of the importance of it to everybody involved.
• 58:12
  Alex Kotran: Yeah, and you and you mentioned the uh the presidential primary race begins, and I think you know, part of because it's interesting, when when I was at DOE, when we were working together, like literally the thing that we were working together on was the Solindra investigations.
• 58:29
  Alex Kotran: And so Congress was subpoenaing the DOE and they were basically demanding all the documents, they wanted to see the documents because there was all this untoward you know money, and you know, the the government loan guarantee program had I think like a two percent default rate.
• 58:43
  Alex Kotran: And so they were like, well, these companies are going bankrupt that we've loaned money to, which today is quaint because you know you look at Silicon Valley, and if you have a 10% success rate in your venture portfolio, it's considered a huge success, right?
• 58:56
  Alex Kotran: I mean, like your the idea of a 2% default rate is almost unheard of.
• 59:00
  Alex Kotran: Um but they have the ability to literally trade all of this churn, and you we were like had like wheelbarrows full of these documents um that lawyers then had to go and go through.
• 59:12
  Alex Kotran: Um so there's so there's investigations that are actually you know that are gonna maybe slow down or gum up the the government, but it's also a chance for some of these folks who maybe have been elected, you know, they they want to get their opportunity to grandstand.
• 59:29
  Alex Kotran: And you know, a lot of that stuff does get clipped.
• 59:32
  Alex Kotran: You know, like I I think it's interesting.
• 59:33
  Alex Kotran: I think I see the most politics in DC, more so even than folks showing up on cable news, it's now like doing getting a really good question in during a hearing.
• 59:44
  Alex Kotran: And it can cut both ways because you had that example of the gentleman I forget which uh I forget who it was, you probably know who I'm talking about, where he he was he was he was interviewing um Jack uh Jack Smith, and he had this text thread and he was like, Looks like you went to see the uh the Atlanta Falcons or something, the Hawks, the Atlanta Hawks, and and then he and then it turns out it was actually the the Baltimore or you know, Maryland like Trailhawks or something.
• 1:00:16
  Alex Kotran: Um and that went truly viral, right?
• 1:00:19
  Alex Kotran: And so that was like a negative that was a bad example.
• 1:00:22
  Alex Kotran: Um but I think there's been a lot.
• 1:00:23
  Alex Kotran: I mean, uh Katie Porter, I you know, I think made, you know, had a ton of uh publicity because of she had these like big posters that she would pull up.
• 1:00:33
  Alex Kotran: And Congress people love posters.
• 1:00:37
  Alex Kotran: Um so it's that like it, but it but it like I mean to a degree, even these AI companies it might not matter what they even have to say.
• 1:00:46
  Alex Kotran: It's not like there's some special strategy going into it.
• 1:00:50
  Alex Kotran: Like what you're saying what you're saying is they're gonna be dragged through and raked over the coals just because that's the political opportunity that folks see.
• 1:00:58
  Alex Kotran: Is this is a chance to actually channel some of this voter anger and bring them, bring them up and you know, put them on the spot and try to try to make them uncomfortable and sort of like you know, if you're lucky, you get this sort of like viral moment where you know somebody says something that you know everybody freaks out about.
• 1:01:19
  Alex Kotran: But maybe that's too uh Machiavellian.
• 1:01:21
  Alex Kotran: Like maybe there is like truly some substance to be like I'm just curious, like if there's like you see an actual outcome besides sort of like the put political posturing it is a totally fair complaint that particularly builders, creators, engineers, they look at the grandstanding politics in in DC and they don't see the value of it.
• 1:01:44
  SPEAKER_01: And they see politicians that are trying to get attention, uh not try to solve problems, and they're turned off by it.
• 1:01:51
  SPEAKER_01: And that's uh what you're talking about is clipping the hearings, and that's absolutely a manifestation of our information environment and politicians responding to the incentives in which the environment that they operate.
• 1:02:05
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that people are right to be skeptical of that, but what it does do is force a national conversation about important topics, including technology, its role in our lives, AI, and that is important in of itself.
• 1:02:26
  SPEAKER_01: And it's gonna be a lot of very unpleasant for a lot of companies, but it's also an opportunity to shape the public policy debate, to neutralize false attacks, and to bolster their reputation.
• 1:02:43
  SPEAKER_01: And so you can see it as a downside, this sort of unholy Washington ritual where you're called to the witness table and you have politicians that are grandstanding, but it's also an opportunity to explain what it is that you're doing, its impact on society, and I think ultimately lead to policy laws that are important and are going to make our lives better.
• 1:03:14
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't remember who said the quote, but um it's something around the line of democracy is the worst form of government, except every other one.
• 1:03:24
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, I I'm a firm believer with that, that it's deeply imperfect, but it's the best thing we got.
• 1:03:33
  SPEAKER_01: And I guarantee you that the Chinese Communist Party is not having this debate on technology and AI.
• 1:03:41
  SPEAKER_01: They're not doing it in Russia, and it's our burden that we have to sometimes deal with the crazy politics that we have, but it's also a blessing that we get to have this debate.
• 1:03:54
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm a firm believer that it's ultimately going to lead us to a better place.
• 1:04:00
  SPEAKER_01: So there is that.
• 1:04:01
  SPEAKER_01: Winston Churchill.
• 1:04:05
  SPEAKER_01: Uh but you also talked about the primaries, which I think is extremely important, and maybe less savvy uh politicos um than you and I might not understand that the moment after the election in 26, we are immediately going to turn to the presidential primaries.
• 1:04:25
  SPEAKER_01: And 2027 is going to be the year where dozens of Democratic candidates come out of the woodwork to have a discussion about the future of our country.
• 1:04:37
  SPEAKER_01: They're going to start campaigning in states, including the early voting states.
• 1:04:43
  SPEAKER_01: And we've talked about this, they are going to talk about AI all the time.
• 1:04:50
  SPEAKER_01: And we are going to have a national conversation about AI, its role in our lives, and what the future looks like because of it.
• 1:04:59
  SPEAKER_01: And there's going to be more attention on it than there has ever been before.
• 1:05:05
  SPEAKER_01: And we're going to see the center of gravity move from Washington, D.C.
• 1:05:11
  SPEAKER_01: to the primary campaigns as Donald Trump fades into the background of American life and we start having a conversation about the future and what it looks like.
• 1:05:21
  SPEAKER_01: And so that's where I, again, as a lover of politics, as a former campaign staffer, as a policy guy in DC, that's what I am watching.
• 1:05:30
  SPEAKER_01: And I think people in the Valley, whether you are educators, whether you're technologists, this is an opportunity to be part of that conversation because it's ultimately going to shape whoever is the next person in the White House.
• 1:05:43
  SPEAKER_01: And I think for me, that's that's uh uh I'm not holding my breath on the Trump administration solving all our problems, but as I look to the future of what's possible and the conversation we're about to have, I think it's extremely important to be part of that conversation.
• 1:05:59
  SPEAKER_01: And that's what's gonna happen in twenty twenty seven in terms of this dialogue where I think people need to watch.
• 1:06:07
  Alex Kotran: Yeah it's the the primaries basically it creates the inevitability of this because there they're and especially because you have you know a weakened DNC um that has like lost a lot of I think uh credibility on the left and I think because the fact I mean it remains to be seen but I think there's like a lot of expectations that Trump has never really been very interested in the party.
• 1:06:35
  Alex Kotran: I mean he's very you know he's sort of a a uh uh a singular candidate and I think he sees himself as such and I don't know that people are expecting him to be you know because normally you have this sort of handoff and I think that's and and for better or worse right because I you know like like uh you know after by after Obama's second term you know there was a lot of positioning that Obama participated in to s to set up Hillary Clinton um as as a candidate and it's not clear that that's actually going to happen on the right and and on the left I think you know some of the most powerful candidates have been these kind of outsider you know like whether it's Mom Dani or John Asoff or uh Telarco.
• 1:07:18
  Alex Kotran: Is it Telarco or Telarico?
• 1:07:20
  Alex Kotran: Telarico yeah Tel Rico we'll cut that um Asof Telarico um there will be a reward for someone who can who can stake a I mean dare I say a populist position and so AI provides this really powerful wedge where it's like okay if you are feeling like there's the there's an opening for a populist uh uh candidate um and you may be an outsider you may not have the the the cachet with the DNC but there will be at least one candidate that takes this you know like that carries the torch and that will force it right and then once you have one candidate then it will force other candidates to decide okay are they going to be the opposition to that are they gonna say well I'm gonna stake the pro-AI track and and maybe that will be successful but I think you know it I think that's yet unproven um I mean there's like you know like Sam Licardo I think is the clearest example in California you know he's you know he he published thought leadership about you know he's like I don't think Congress should stop AI and innovation and he's opposed moratoriums um and he did really well in the primary um and uh it's like De La Cruz I think is that uh Texas Congressman De La Cruz um and you know he's been very pro-business pro AI pro manufacturing so there are some examples of somebody you know you you mentioned this idea of like the data centers are here and the question is simply who who's gonna get the tax revenue and so maybe there is an angle which is like hey I want the data center dollars to go to our community not someone else but there will certainly be some candidates that are going to get a lot of attention for their anti-AI take in you saw Bernie Sanders and Steve Bannon do a big rally I mean Bernie's been actually doing like filling stadiums with this sort of like anti-AI or sort of AI skeptic pro-worker um message and it it's hard to imagine that that's not posturing for I don't know if I mean I be I don't think Bernie's gonna run but I think Bernie is going to be a kingmaker to to a populist candidate on the left.
• 1:09:46
  Alex Kotran: And that's gonna be very hard for for AI companies to to respond to because if you come out too strongly against it you and this is actually you you sent me a note about this and there was there was one in the primary there was a a pro AI super PAC I think it's Greg Brockman's super PAC that spent a tremendous amount of money trying to block um one of the authors of the the AI regulation in New York and so they successfully blocked him from uh the primary he lost the primary the person who won was his co-author to that legislation and so um we've already seen some examples of there may not be an amount of money that you can spend it and momdani is the same example I mean he was outspent significantly if you find a way to tap into the zeitgeist you know you can actually you you that that is a path and so that's that actually creates this opportunity for folks who don't have access to the same fundraising.
• 1:10:45
  SPEAKER_01: That's absolutely right money is important in campaigns and politics but it's not definitive and I think that people in fact resent the amount of money that's in our politics because they think it distorts our politics and going back to this this conversation we have about the individual and your your your are you upwardly mobile are you downward do you feel like things are going in the right direction for you if you feel like outsiders are trying to buy off your vote or your politician and they're not really caring about you that can be really resentful and end up driving people in the other direction.
• 1:11:28
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think how you engage in in these things at a community level is extremely important.
• 1:11:35
  SPEAKER_01: Here's the thing about primaries they are going to test the mettle of all these politicians and they're going to try out ideas, they're gonna try out messages and it's extremely important and healthy part of democracy.
• 1:11:50
  SPEAKER_01: And one of the challenges that we've had in American democracy is we really haven't had a truly open primary for 20 years since 2008 when Barack Obama ultimately won and then won the presidency.
• 1:12:07
  SPEAKER_01: That's absolutely going to be an open primary on the Democratic side and so you're gonna see a ton of competition and I think that's healthy because we're going to have a debate about the future of our country and we're gonna see what works, what doesn't work.
• 1:12:22
  SPEAKER_01: And I would push back on you a little bit that it is ultimately just going to be populist this or populist that because look Bernie Sanders was poised to one and Joe Biden ended up with uh winning the nomination partly because people were so focused on who could beat Donald Trump and uh the Democratic Party made a choice to go with someone who was more middle of the road because of the importance of taking back the presidency.
• 1:12:49
  SPEAKER_01: I'd also push back on you I don't think that this is in the bag for Vice President J.D.
• 1:12:54
  SPEAKER_01: Vance I think you're gonna see people come out of the woodwork on the Republican side and challenge him because JD Vance is going to have a real challenge that he's not going to be able to criticize the Trump administration but he's gonna carry the baggage of what are unpopular policies a new uh forever war in the Middle East support for um individuals who um uh are viewed as um billionaires who don't support regular people he's gonna be have a very hard time of that and people are going to uh smell an opportunity to challenge him and I so I think Donald Trump's grip on the party is going to start to slip and we're gonna also have a debate on the Republican Party.
• 1:13:45
  SPEAKER_01: And I I will also challenge you you know the parties in American political system have never been weaker and the role that they play in our politics is decreased and decreased and decreased.
• 1:13:59
  SPEAKER_01: And we don't have smoke-filled rooms where elites in a party choose our candidates the whole modern primary system exists as a reaction to that where um going back to the 50s and even the 60s where presidents were choosing by party delegates and not by the people and so our primary party Kennedy right in the on the Democratic side you know JFK and you know those choices were um were party delegates and even the Democratic party we still have a delegate system but we have direct elections to help select who these people are and that's a way for people to get involved and and share their voice.
• 1:14:39
  SPEAKER_01: And so that's extremely important and um I think that it's it's gonna be a fascinating time in American life because we're gonna really see um that debate play out in real time.
• 1:14:52
  Alex Kotran: I think um I I love the I'm gonna bring I'm gonna bring this back to education because you know most of the folks who watch this are are folks in education but I think it really is important to understand what is going to happen in the because like because as we talked about you know these like presidential elections are you know all-consuming cultural moments and so I think if you're a school leader if you're you know even a teacher and you're trying to understand well like what is the world going to look like like what is the kind of stuff that I'm gonna be hearing from parents you know I think understanding what's what what might play out politically is you know there there's it is a sort of unquestionable that there's going to be you know ripple effects that that touch you know conversations that are happening you know with school boards.
• 1:15:36
  Alex Kotran: When I think of JD Vance it's like you know I I hadn't really connected the dots but you're right it's assuming that he runs and assuming that he has Trump's endorsement he becomes almost like the the foil and JD Vance is very pro-AI I mean he's pro-AI development I mean he's really come across as very supportive of of data centers.
• 1:16:00
  Alex Kotran: I mean he's had like he's there's been some qualifications to that but I think largely speaking he's sort of come I mean I think he's an example of what it looks like for a candidate to to stake a qualified but sort of unambiguously pro-AI pro-innovation with maybe some regulation but but not too much.
• 1:16:18
  Alex Kotran: So if you're a if and if you're a a a primary candidate on the on the right and you're trying to think about well I want to be able to attack JD Vance you know you could attack Trump you could attack the performance of the Trump administration at your own peril because you know Trump is probably going to continue tweeting and you know if if you put Trump in a position where he feels the need to defend his record you know do you really are you really willing to go and put your neck out and maybe there will be some who are going to do that.
• 1:16:49
  Alex Kotran: But I think attacking positions like you know Janie Vance's position on AI is maybe the safer way to draw a contrast without necessarily having to impeach the the or indict policies of of the Trump administration is that is that too am I am I getting too uh too cerebral about all of this?
• 1:17:18
  Alex Kotran: I mean is it I I think you don't think it's gonna be a big populist but I just it feels like affordability I mean if there's a recession I mean there probably will be a recession before 28 is my is that's that's actually your your your bet, right?
• 1:17:32
  Alex Kotran: Is like in March if there's a debt ceiling debate.
• 1:17:34
  Alex Kotran: Do you want can you play that out actually?
• 1:17:35
  Alex Kotran: Because I think that's like in that's an important context for because we talked about the primaries are happening in 2027 and you shared I think a really compelling prediction about you know when the AI bubble might pop.
• 1:17:47
  SPEAKER_01: I I just um I am 100% committed to making our government and our politics work for Americans.
• 1:17:55
  SPEAKER_01: That's been my life's work but I'm also clear-eyed and realistic about some of the challenges that our politics face and I think Donald Trump's inability to work across the aisle and work with Democrats presents some real challenges that are gonna come up and one of the biggest ones is the need to pass a debt limit increase which is the United States borrowing increase we've already you know said that we're gonna spend the money we've borrowed the money this is paying it back but right now in the United in DC in Congress you have to actually take a vote to do that.
• 1:18:32
  SPEAKER_01: And so that's become a point of political leverage for the party that's not in the White House and what I fear is that our politics is we're not going to do that.
• 1:18:44
  SPEAKER_01: And that could have great consequences to the faith the full faith and credit of the United States dollar and I'm hopeful that cooler heads will prevail when this happens but that could have real consequential consequential impact on our economy and could stink the the stock market and could eventually lead to an unraveling of the AI trade.
• 1:19:08
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think that's an important thing for people to understand but I think people also would um I'm hopeful that coolerheads will prevail and we'll be able to address that.
• 1:19:19
  SPEAKER_01: You're right that we we are in a populist moment that people are upset um and that that there are temptations uh to to play into that but again I I we're gonna have a big debate I think Democrats are super focused on winning and so that's that has a way of focusing the mind on what's realistic as opposed to sort of pie in the sky feel good partisan fodder.
• 1:19:48
  SPEAKER_01: When it comes to JD Vance again I think I think Donald Trump's grasp on American politics is starting to weaken it's only going to weaken more after his loss in this in his election and the fact that he is a lame duck and is not going to be part of our future will diminish his ability to control who is his successor.
• 1:20:10
  SPEAKER_01: And so that's why I I think you're gonna have a healthy debate in the Republican Party.
• 1:20:15
  SPEAKER_01: But I want to take this back to kids and to students because I think that was a really good point.
• 1:20:21
  SPEAKER_01: And there's a couple things that are I think are really important when it comes to students and politics in this next election.
• 1:20:30
  SPEAKER_01: And the number one thing is I think the worst thing that educators could do is because of the divisiveness of our politics would be draw back from what is going to be a hugely important civic moment and a learning opportunity for young people.
• 1:20:49
  SPEAKER_01: I remember back you know some of my earliest memories was Michael Dukakis losing the 1988 poll when I was in third grade to George H.W.
• 1:21:02
  SPEAKER_01: Bush and I think my dad had voted for Dukakis was the I remember the donkeys versus the elephants and it was clearly fundamental to me in my life and I think the worst thing that we could have is because Donald Trump has been so polarizing to our politics the safe path for educators and teachers is just not to bring it up in the classroom.
• 1:21:24
  SPEAKER_01: And I I really hope that that civic mindedness and civic education were able to to bring young people into this conversation even before they're able to vote because I think it has uh you know the what it was it Thomas Jefferson that talked about civic republicanism and this idea that we are all citizens and we have a role to play sometimes the focus on math, science, we forget that we are citizens and actually we learn how to be citizens.
• 1:21:59
  SPEAKER_01: And that that is an essential part of our democracy and we need to capture that in the classroom even though some of these topics have been so divisive.
• 1:22:10
  SPEAKER_01: So if I can find ways to help support that people much more talented and smart smarter than I should be leading that charge.
• 1:22:19
  SPEAKER_01: But as someone who works with students and who works with educators I'd be curious about your idea of how politics impacts the classroom especially as we're in this amazing moment where we're talking about AI and future and technology you add politics to the classroom I can see why a lot of teachers might say that's too much.
• 1:22:40
  SPEAKER_01: But I'm really hopeful that we find a way to to bring it in and use it as a teaching moment for the people who are going to ultimately be the politicians the leaders elected officials in the future it's tough.
• 1:22:57
  Alex Kotran: I mean teachers have gone through a lot I mean talk about going through the ringer I mean you have COVID I mean you have I mean Trump's election was it was like 2016 was such a sharp uh attack from what politics felt like before during Obama you know I think there was this sudden realization that of the polarization and the virulence and you know social media it's interesting like when I when I was I I you know Jen I think you and I are blessed that we grew up without all the social media stuff everywhere.
• 1:23:42
  Alex Kotran: I mean I didn't I didn't really even have social media in college.
• 1:23:45
  Alex Kotran: I mean I I certainly there were no TikToks or reels I mean we had Facebook but even Facebook was you know it's it's almost quaint to think about how it was used.
• 1:23:53
  Alex Kotran: It was like actually used to share photos with your friends and that was about it.
• 1:23:59
  Alex Kotran: And you know so I think teachers have had to kind of navigate all of the technology and the way that has shaped and and polarized the discourse and then you have you know like like Trump's politics are almost definitionally sort of this very adversarial I think it was really hard and probably still is really hard to have a reasoned political debate in your classroom when you know the the rhetoric that's being used at the national level is not appropriate for s for classrooms.
• 1:24:36
  Alex Kotran: You know like are you really how how could you have a debate about immigration and ICE when you know the it's going to conjure up this like these really graphic examples right you know on really both sides.
• 1:24:48
  Alex Kotran: But um so I mean we can be hopeful though I mean like like perhaps there will be sort of this you know politics could be a little bit more boring.
• 1:24:59
  Alex Kotran: It would be nice if it was a bit more boring and and more of a learning opportunity.
• 1:25:03
  Alex Kotran: I think I think the but I will say this you know when it comes to AI at AI Edu our one of our strategies is we we actually lean into some of these not necessarily controversial but areas where there's a lot of strong opinions you know if AI generates a rap song is that actually art you know you know how do you feel about AI's impact on the environment and should you use it or should you avoid using it?
• 1:25:31
  Alex Kotran: And these are you know students feel really strongly about them but they also really lean in and and and and we also pose them not as questions to get right or wrong but as sort of prompts to invite a a discussion in the classroom and and that's actually really it's a safe place for a teacher to be because a teacher now doesn't have to be the expert on AI.
• 1:25:55
  Alex Kotran: You know she is really just facilitating this discussion and and often learning alongside the students.
• 1:26:01
  Alex Kotran: The environment's a great example of like you know there's a lot of students and it's actually you know I think a lot of people are surprised you know Gen Z and Gen Alpha are like they're very anti-AI more so almost more so than almost any other demographic group and they're also using it more than most demographic groups and so there's this weird thing happening right where you know we always think about the younger generations as being the the technology native and the AI native generation and they are actually but there has been this dissociation or this this uh this connection between the use of AI and support for AI.
• 1:26:37
  Alex Kotran: And I think people always assume that like oh the more people use it the more they're gonna understand it and therefore they'll be less afraid of it.
• 1:26:45
  Alex Kotran: That isn't actually happening.
• 1:26:46
  Alex Kotran: It's actually the more people use it the more the more worried about it they are.
• 1:26:50
  Alex Kotran: But then it's also a chance to channel that it's like oh you're really worried about the environmental impact of AI.
• 1:26:54
  Alex Kotran: Well let's talk about that.
• 1:26:55
  Alex Kotran: How like why is AI really bad?
• 1:26:58
  Alex Kotran: You know why does it have a big impact on the environment?
• 1:27:00
  Alex Kotran: Well then that you have to kind of understand that oh actually behind ChatGBT and Claude and Gemini are these literally these like computers and these fans that spin every time you make a query and they require energy and they require water to cool it.
• 1:27:12
  Alex Kotran: And so you're learning about the infrastructure behind AI you're learning about you know um the energy system which is also you know as someone who started my career in like clean tech it's kind of fascinating how sexy energy is now because it was a very boring sector.
• 1:27:26
  Alex Kotran: And I've never heard people talking about gigawatts and terawatts on mainstream news and now they seem to be every day.
• 1:27:35
  Alex Kotran: So yeah I hope it's an opportunity for teachers I do worry about this which is you know right now if you're an administrator you are you're already navigating a lot of parent concern about AI.
• 1:27:48
  Alex Kotran: And you know we're doing a lot of like like mixed methods research at the moment to really try to understand like what is it that parents are actually worried about.
• 1:27:56
  Alex Kotran: You know clearly data centers Surveillance, um, you know, cheating are these on-ramps to concern, you know, anti-screens.
• 1:28:06
  Alex Kotran: There's like a lot of there's a lot of entry points for someone to be, you know, sort of like skeptical of AI.
• 1:28:11
  Alex Kotran: Um and what we're finding is that it's a little that there is there is room for nuance, um, but the only way that you can get to an actual conversation with a parent that will maybe get them to buy into some amount of you know, like uh bat some balance, right?
• 1:28:28
  Alex Kotran: Of like, you know, let's not just like we can't because basically you ask the way the way these focus groups went, you know, you talk to parents, parents and teachers, mostly actually worried about AI.
• 1:28:36
  Alex Kotran: Very, very little like open support for AI.
• 1:28:39
  Alex Kotran: People are at best qualified support, but also concerned.
• 1:28:43
  Alex Kotran: And then you ask them this question, which is okay, do you think if we ban AI that it will stop students from using it?
• 1:28:50
  Alex Kotran: And there's like a pause.
• 1:28:52
  Alex Kotran: And then they're like, oh, yeah, no, they're definitely still gonna use the AI.
• 1:28:56
  Alex Kotran: And then their mentality switches a bit.
• 1:28:59
  Alex Kotran: Because they're sort of like, yeah, I guess we really do need to just we have we have no choice.
• 1:29:03
  Alex Kotran: Like it's not we don't have control over whether the kids are gonna use it, so I guess we do need to make sure that there is an experienced adult in the room.
• 1:29:12
  Alex Kotran: It's already hard to get there, right?
• 1:29:14
  Alex Kotran: Like we had we and we're being really precise and thoughtful about you know what is the best entry point, and part of that is like you're gonna have to you have to find a way to actually walk across the line and not be oppositional to parents because parents are worried about their kids' safety, they're worried about protecting learning, and you don't want to be up on the you're not, you're not, you don't disagree with that.
• 1:29:35
  Alex Kotran: So you have to convince them that you know they they you have to build that trust, and the way to do that is by actually being able to articulate that protecting students and protecting learning is my number one priority, not just a sub-bullet.
• 1:29:48
  Alex Kotran: So that's sort of like where we're at turt currently in terms of like how do we think about how to talk about this.
• 1:29:53
  Alex Kotran: But as it becomes more political, I think it's gonna get harder and harder because I think you're now you I'm in all these circles with with philanthropists and with like people in Washington.
• 1:30:05
  Alex Kotran: There was actually this one round table.
• 1:30:06
  Alex Kotran: It was like a bunch of like chief innovation officers from the administration and from governor's offices, and like all these think tanks, AEI, and you know, like the cabal of like enterprise, like big big business.
• 1:30:17
  Alex Kotran: And everybody was sitting around the table and they were literally having this conversation about you know, people are just they're increasingly opposed to AI, and you know, I think we need to do a better job telling the story about why AI is so good.
• 1:30:29
  Alex Kotran: And I and I don't know if I should have done this, but I was kind of like you know, I was like, uh excuse me.
• 1:30:34
  Alex Kotran: I was like, you guys are crazy if you think that you have any any shot at that message.
• 1:30:41
  Alex Kotran: Like that message isn't going to get the trend on TikTok.
• 1:30:45
  Alex Kotran: It's not going to be the thing that the parents are talking to each other about, you know, over brunch.
• 1:30:51
  Alex Kotran: And the the idea that you have any ability to shape the conversation is almost almost uh uh you know that it it it it represents a misunderstanding of how this goes, which is like the conversation is gonna be the conversation, and you need to understand like how do we navigate given the current that we're in.
• 1:31:13
  Alex Kotran: And so I think with schools, it's like if the current goes to this very increasingly AI skeptic uh mindset, if there is more and more discussion during primaries, you know, and we'll see how how prominent AI gets, but you can imagine, you know, all the AI companies, I don't know if you saw this report, it was like a leak.
• 1:31:33
  Alex Kotran: And a bunch of the AI labs have, the frontier labs have actually been like doing um it was okay, this was framed as like a leak.
• 1:31:41
  Alex Kotran: I think it's actually like pretty common for every company to do this, but they were basically doing like uh uh scenario planning for like what happens if there's a a crisis because of AI, and this expectation that that would result in a huge popular put uh outcry.
• 1:31:56
  Alex Kotran: And things like a plane, you know, like airports getting shut down or a bank, you know, going offline.
• 1:32:02
  Alex Kotran: There's like a lot of there's a lot of a big big scope of like different sort of like bad scenarios.
• 1:32:07
  Alex Kotran: Um it's very likely something is going to happen.
• 1:32:10
  Alex Kotran: I don't know what it is, but it's it's hard to imagine there not being another story similar to you know what we saw with like the hugging face, you know, there's like where where open AI sort of broke out of its container and hacked a bunch of websites.
• 1:32:24
  Alex Kotran: Um so I'm thinking about that.
• 1:32:27
  Alex Kotran: Then I'm imagining it's it's hard to it's hard to visualize a world where people are feeling better about AI.
• 1:32:33
  Alex Kotran: I think that they're gonna feel worse.
• 1:32:34
  Alex Kotran: And so if you're a teacher, if you're an administrator, how how do you how do you deal with that?
• 1:32:42
  Alex Kotran: Because it it seems unlikely that you can change people's minds about you can't convince them that they're wrong to be concerned about it, but then you also have this duty to prepare kids as a not just protect them, but to prepare them.
• 1:32:55
  Alex Kotran: And part of preparing them is like we need to understand these tools, and they need to understand these tools.
• 1:33:00
  Alex Kotran: And so, what advice would you have to superintendent?
• 1:33:03
  Alex Kotran: You know, this is like let's say this is a bigger district, relatively active parent pop, you know, like parent community, and you're trying to make some decisions about your policies now, and we're talking to some of these districts that are literally thinking about this, and they're gonna be passing policies that are go gonna go to a vote before the board, you know, in the in this in the in the winter spring, so right after the primaries.
• 1:33:27
  Alex Kotran: Um yeah, what advice would you have to someone who's trying to understand like what is the national environment gonna look like as I'm trying to navigate this locally?
• 1:33:36
  SPEAKER_01: I am absolutely not qualified to tell a superintendent what to do on anything.
• 1:33:42
  SPEAKER_01: And the only uh uh obviously I know a lot about politics.
• 1:33:48
  SPEAKER_01: And like you, my mom was a public school teacher for 35 years.
• 1:33:53
  SPEAKER_01: She taught in the same district her whole career.
• 1:33:56
  SPEAKER_01: And so I grew up with an educator, I grew up with someone that worked with students, and so I do have that perspective.
• 1:34:03
  SPEAKER_01: But I think from politics and what you said, I think it's the same, yeah, whether it's the classroom or the campaign trail, which is when you're talking to people, you need to meet them where they are.
• 1:34:17
  SPEAKER_01: And what that means is you can't come to them with some idea or position that is just wholly outside of their lived experience.
• 1:34:27
  SPEAKER_01: And whether that's AI or their life, their job, you need to come to people and understand their perspective, where they are, and that's where the conversation starts.
• 1:34:39
  SPEAKER_01: And maybe if you meet people where they are, you can sort of understand where they're thinking and share information with them that helps them form their view, but that fundamentally starts from a position of recognizing that they don't need to be educated or scolded for their views, but in fact need to be respected as individuals who have ideas, thoughts, the human dignity of the individual.
• 1:35:14
  SPEAKER_01: And I think uh we have gotten away from that.
• 1:35:17
  SPEAKER_01: And so that's what I'm hopeful for as part of these conversations.
• 1:35:22
  SPEAKER_01: And I have nothing but respect for educators, teachers, administrators who um uh uh have to deal with this all the time.
• 1:35:32
  SPEAKER_01: And I I have one funny story.
• 1:35:34
  SPEAKER_01: I was helpful preparing um the Miguel Cardona, the former uh secretary of education, to go testify before Congress.
• 1:35:44
  SPEAKER_01: And I had been dealing with lots of cabinet secretaries.
• 1:35:46
  SPEAKER_01: My job was to make sure that they were ready for the gauntlet of Congress that was gonna kick their butt.
• 1:35:52
  SPEAKER_01: And I remember I'd been dealing with all these important people like Janet Yellen and Lloyd Austin and Tony Blinken, and I got to the Secretary of Education who was an educator and who had been before school boards hundreds of times.
• 1:36:06
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, are you gonna be okay here?
• 1:36:09
  SPEAKER_01: And he's like, this is nothing.
• 1:36:11
  SPEAKER_01: I got this.
• 1:36:13
  SPEAKER_01: And I just had to laugh because it's in fact teachers and educators that are dealing with human beings all the time.
• 1:36:20
  SPEAKER_01: And in fact, politicians could learn a thing or two because they're in the gauntlet.
• 1:36:25
  SPEAKER_01: They're working on these issues every single day of their lives, and I think we have a lot of wisdom to learn from them in DC, not the other way around.
• 1:36:39
  Alex Kotran: Yeah, I wish there were more teachers running for public office.
• 1:36:43
  Alex Kotran: Absolutely.
• 1:36:44
  Alex Kotran: You have to be a bit of a bit of a sociopath.
• 1:36:47
  Alex Kotran: I mean, I think it's like so antithetical to it.
• 1:36:49
  Alex Kotran: You know, if you're a teacher, you have it it is sort of like the least sexy, the least power, you you know, the least money.
• 1:36:59
  Alex Kotran: You are in it because of the kids, because you're drawn to this sort of sense of purpose.
• 1:37:05
  Alex Kotran: And and yet I think there's like a lot of examples, you know, um of politicians who who were school teachers and who worked in schools, and you know, I think they're it's a yeah, we need more teachers in in politics.
• 1:37:20
  Alex Kotran: Um yeah, you gotta meet people where they are, and for the most part, parents are not seeing the benefits of AI for themselves.
• 1:37:29
  Alex Kotran: I think most people are.
• 1:37:30
  Alex Kotran: I mean, even in comp even in corporate America, I think you know, it's like 1% of AI users are driving, you know, 10% of the ROI in a lot of companies, right?
• 1:37:39
  Alex Kotran: So you have this concentration of even within AI forward organizations, um, not everybody is even seeing the value for themselves.
• 1:37:48
  Alex Kotran: And so if if parents aren't in the wavelength of, oh, AI is this really powerful thing that tool that I'm seeing the benefit of, um, yeah, where do you meet them?
• 1:38:02
  Alex Kotran: And I think it's like, but it feels like every parent cares about their kids being on the right side of disruption.
• 1:38:10
  Alex Kotran: And I think parents do know that the disruption is here.
• 1:38:12
  Alex Kotran: Even if they're not using it, they're seeing it.
• 1:38:14
  Alex Kotran: They're seeing it at the companies that they work for, they're seeing it in their communities.
• 1:38:18
  Alex Kotran: And that's that's how we've done it.
• 1:38:20
  Alex Kotran: I mean, that's how we've basically, you know, walked the line as we say, look, we're not here to have a debate about whether AI is good or bad.
• 1:38:30
  Alex Kotran: Like our focus is, you know, if you assume that AI is here and we really do think it's here, um, what needs to happen to make sure your kids don't fall behind?
• 1:38:41
  Alex Kotran: Because that's the one thing that we have certainty.
• 1:38:43
  Alex Kotran: If they are not on the right side of this, they will be left behind, they will lose out on opportunities, especially in a moment where there's a lot of concept, there's more and more concentration of capital.
• 1:38:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um I and and I I think you guys do an amazing job of having that conversation and trying to give people tools to be able to deal with this hugely disruptive technology and impact.
• 1:39:11
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it's a great segue to you know, you're seeing it in the classroom, you're you're getting people exposed to it.
• 1:39:18
  SPEAKER_01: You and your organization are extremely advanced and forward.
• 1:39:22
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it's quite sad at how behind the folks in the beltway in Washington, DC are, and um having, you know, getting exposure to this technology and understanding what it can do.
• 1:39:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I think it's extremely just like folks in the classroom need to be AI literate, they need to be AI ready to be able to survive in the world that's coming.
• 1:39:46
  SPEAKER_01: The folks that make our laws, the staffers that actually make Washington DC run, they have to start to understand what these tools are.
• 1:39:56
  SPEAKER_01: And the way that they have to do that is they have to use these tools.
• 1:39:59
  SPEAKER_01: And I know you've recently had an experience where you came and talked to people and you came away maybe worried, or um, that people simply just um didn't understand what will what is happening, what is going to happen, the scale and speed of this technology, and maybe needs to have a little more understanding of AI.
• 1:40:25
  Alex Kotran: Yeah, that what worried me in DC, because we did a bunch of these sort of like you know, AI workshops with you know Hillstaffers and just like other folks in DC, um, you know, social impact organizations.
• 1:40:38
  Alex Kotran: And I wasn't, you know, I'm never worried by you know when somebody is new to AI and and you know they're really they're just starting the learning journey.
• 1:40:46
  Alex Kotran: I think that's just you know, everybody's gonna have to get started.
• 1:40:50
  Alex Kotran: What worried me is there was actually people had a chip on their shoulder.
• 1:40:54
  Alex Kotran: They were like, well, I'm too smart.
• 1:40:56
  Alex Kotran: The AI can't do what I do.
• 1:40:58
  Alex Kotran: You know, I I've tried the AI, I don't think it's very good for writing, I think it's you know, it makes mistakes.
• 1:41:05
  Alex Kotran: And that's usually how I can figure out whether someone's really used AI, is whether if they start talking about, oh, well, it hallucinates and it, you know, it makes mistakes.
• 1:41:13
  Alex Kotran: It's like that is correct, it definitely hallucinates.
• 1:41:16
  Alex Kotran: But the world that we're in now is one where it doesn't take too much clever prompting to set up a validation loop.
• 1:41:24
  Alex Kotran: So the AI does the research and produces, you know, the and this is what this is basically what we should be showing this Hillstaff is we're like, oh, look, you can create your you know sort of briefing memo before the hearing.
• 1:41:33
  Alex Kotran: And yes, it's it might make some mistakes, but what you can do is you can say tell the AI, you know, put all the data that you pulled into a table, and in one column add the source for the information, a link to that source, and a specific citation of the page number and a quote to ensure that there's an actual real source for the claim that's being made.
• 1:41:58
  Alex Kotran: And then it will go and do that, and then you get another AI to go through and now click on each link and actually check to make sure.
• 1:42:05
  Alex Kotran: Does that 100% reduce the the risk of mistakes?
• 1:42:08
  Alex Kotran: No.
• 1:42:09
  Alex Kotran: But you certainly, you know, I mean, I was an intern and I, you know, I would write media briefings for for the Secretary of Health every night.
• 1:42:18
  Alex Kotran: And my boss didn't just forward that along to the Secretary.
• 1:42:20
  Alex Kotran: Like she reviewed my work and she would always find mistakes.
• 1:42:23
  Alex Kotran: You know, so like the you know, the the this this idea that, well, I'm too smart for the AI, it's not useful to me, I think is it the the worry is that that if you're not even willing to get on the journey, like I'm fine if you're starting to learn the journey, but if you are, if you are opting out of the learning journey, like I think those folks are gonna find themselves, they're gonna look around all of a sudden, and it might not be obvious what exactly how it happened, but they're gonna realize that they're like totally behind.
• 1:42:49
  Alex Kotran: And it's you know, the modern-day equivalent of somebody who's, you know, you watch the this is like the the the person who's using two fingers to type under the keyboard, you know, and everybody makes fun of them.
• 1:43:01
  Alex Kotran: And you know, I think that not not being willing to learn how to use AI and wield it.
• 1:43:06
  Alex Kotran: And then also there's like social impact organizations who are like rightfully concerned about the you know, the socioeconomic externalities of AI and the bias and all of this, you know, legitimate questions.
• 1:43:20
  Alex Kotran: Um but then if you're writing off, you know, and I think about campaigns a lot, you know, if you're and there's there's rumors that that a lot of democratic campaigns have explicitly avoided using AI because of you know unions or you know, there's like sort of like there seem to be some folks on the left, especially who are who are swearing off AI because they're not willing, that they're worried about the implications or whatever.
• 1:43:46
  Alex Kotran: They're maybe they have like they've they're taking a principled stance.
• 1:43:49
  Alex Kotran: Um I don't know if this is I don't know if we're gonna see it in the midterms, but I think by 2028 it will what you'll start to see is it might not be obvious that there's gonna be like an AI campaign, but I think what you'll see is there can there gonna be candidates who are outperforming relative to their fundraising and are able to emulate what Mamdani and you know other candidates have been able to do with these like very fast and nimble and sophisticated and grassroots sort of art you know uh organizations.
• 1:44:23
  Alex Kotran: And yeah, I worry about that.
• 1:44:25
  Alex Kotran: I worry about how do we but this is the to close on like an optimistic note, and not I'm not I'm not forcing this, this is like truly what I believe.
• 1:44:33
  Alex Kotran: Um whenever I hear like because that is a state of play, because there is actually such slow adoption of AI, and that is becoming one of the big challenges for companies who are trying to compete, and campaigns and any organization really, um, you know, everybody's right now it's really tough to get a job if you're a fresh college grad, no doubt.
• 1:44:57
  Alex Kotran: I I I think in five years the conversation will look something like all these young people, all these college grads are taking all the jobs.
• 1:45:06
  Alex Kotran: And it's gonna be people who are actually further along in their careers who are getting replaced by young people who are just more comfortable playing around with tools and you know, like and so there's one conversation which is like how do we deal with that and all the displacement and reskilling?
• 1:45:26
  Alex Kotran: That's a separate podcast.
• 1:45:28
  Alex Kotran: But I think for this, it's like, you know, if you're if you're a young person, it doesn't matter what your position is on AI, but whatever that position is, if you want to have any place in solving it and making the world better, the best shot, your best shot at figuring that out is actually being that disruptor, like being that knowledgeable, enterprising, innovative, you know, fresh uh uh voice.
• 1:45:54
  Alex Kotran: And companies are gonna be desperate for those folks.
• 1:45:57
  Alex Kotran: And they're gonna say, you know what, we don't care, even if you know how to use this or that tool, we can treat you to use a tool if you're someone who actually can learn.
• 1:46:05
  Alex Kotran: And also just you have more neuroplasticity when you're younger.
• 1:46:07
  Alex Kotran: Like it there, there's yeah.
• 1:46:11
  SPEAKER_01: So one of the drawbacks of our political system is that you tend to become an elected official at the end or later in your career as opposed to the beginning.
• 1:46:23
  SPEAKER_01: And so, by definition, you are old or older than the average person.
• 1:46:31
  SPEAKER_01: And I think in this moment, when technology has such a profound impact on our politics, such a central role in our future and the policies we should do, when you a valid critique is that some of our most senior political leaders are don't understand the technology.
• 1:46:52
  SPEAKER_01: They haven't used Claude code to vibe code and software engineer a piece of software.
• 1:46:58
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe they've done a chatbot, but do they really understand what semiconductors are doing?
• 1:47:05
  SPEAKER_01: Reinforcement learning, training of uh data, algorithms, compute, energy.
• 1:47:13
  SPEAKER_01: And it's a fair criticism that maybe we need people who have a better understanding of these technologies to help be our leaders, to help move us into the 21st century.
• 1:47:28
  SPEAKER_01: And that, to your point, is why I'm optimistic about young people and their role in our politics.
• 1:47:39
  SPEAKER_01: Because I agree with you that the people who are going to lead us out of our current darkness are the people who might be in a classroom that is working on an AI EDU curriculum today, and that is going to really understand these technologies and have skills that help them figure out and solve these problems in a way where unfortunately I count myself, these are these old fogies are not doing a very good job.
• 1:48:12
  SPEAKER_01: And I am really optimistic about people who are AI native, who grow up with these technologies.
• 1:48:21
  SPEAKER_01: It's good that they have a healthy skepticism and they might have some ideas for us and our politics that are actually really good.
• 1:48:30
  SPEAKER_01: And so I can't wait for young people to get involved in the process, to come to Washington, D.C.
• 1:48:39
  SPEAKER_01: to get a job on the hill, to run for office, to become a member of Congress and to solve these problems.
• 1:48:47
  SPEAKER_01: I'm excited about it because I really think that they're gonna add a perspective and an approach that even I, as an aging zillenial, uh might not have uh the best approach.
• 1:49:03
  SPEAKER_01: And so I I think that's that's it's good.
• 1:49:06
  SPEAKER_01: And I again, that's why I think that the work that you do at AIDU AIEDU is essential.
• 1:49:13
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, why I am just feel so fortunate to help support you and play a small role in the work that you do because I just I see the impact that it's gonna have on our politics, on our government, and our future, and that makes me optimistic about what's coming.
• 1:49:32
  SPEAKER_01: So thank you, Alex, for the work that you do, and thank you to the students and to the young people who stick with it.
• 1:49:40
  SPEAKER_01: And I think join the campaign, do it now, get on that campaign because that's gonna be that's gonna be our next president who is gonna lead us out of this, and I'm gonna vote for that person.
• 1:49:55
  Alex Kotran: And you don't have to want to be a politician, you know, you don't Have to want to be a DC person.
• 1:50:03
  Alex Kotran: The campaign is like it's just like being a badass, like a boot camp for just being like a badass operator.
• 1:50:12
  Alex Kotran: Like you are gonna, you know, whether you are interested in business or law or I mean, I can't really think of anything besides, you know.
• 1:50:25
  Alex Kotran: I mean, I guess if you want to go, if you're like a STEM kid and you just but even okay, even STEM, you know, right now companies aren't just looking for engineers who can sit quietly in a cubicle, well not a cubicle, probably like a glass room over with a beautiful view of the bay, but quietly in sort of your corner hacking by themselves.
• 1:50:42
  Alex Kotran: Like they're looking for people who can collaborate and sort of like be these human intermediaries between the tools and the AI and the product managers.
• 1:50:52
  Alex Kotran: And so it kind of I don't I really don't think it matters what your goals are because a campaign is going to force you to build this like set of human skills, you know, dealing with people, dealing like persuading people, inspiring people, managing volunteers is like, you know, I mean the the fastest track to actually getting experience managing is be on a campaign because you're gonna get handed, you know, uh in my time it was like a clipboard, but literally like printouts of you know the people's addresses.
• 1:51:27
  Alex Kotran: And they're like, oh, these are the people who signed up to be a volunteer.
• 1:51:30
  Alex Kotran: And now you have to go and meet with them, and then you're like you're knocking on somebody's door and they're like, Who is that?
• 1:51:36
  Alex Kotran: And they're like, oh, you know, with the Obama campaign, and you know, it sounds like you're interested in being a volunteer, and they're like, and you know, it's they're probably at the mall or something, and somebody like accosted them, and they just to be nice, you know, put their name down.
• 1:51:48
  Alex Kotran: They never really, and now you're in this place of like you're trying to pitch this person on giving up you know a bunch of time to go and knock on people's doors and get yelled at.
• 1:51:57
  Alex Kotran: Um but but dang, if that's not, you know, if you can do that, you're gonna walk into a an office environment and just like it's gonna be quaint.
• 1:52:07
  Alex Kotran: You know, like there's like nothing that the corporate world can throw at you that um that will cut your teeth in the way that uh being on a campaign, maybe the exception of the folks who are having to prep these um these AI executives for for congressional investigations, because that's gonna be that I'm sure that's a very intense job.
• 1:52:26
  Alex Kotran: Um Jim, I know we're almost at time.
• 1:52:29
  Alex Kotran: Uh what is sort of like I mean you already I usually ask for parting advice, you already gave the parting advice.
• 1:52:37
  Alex Kotran: Um I'm gonna try to add this to every interview, so let me start with you actually.
• 1:52:44
  Alex Kotran: Can you think of like anything that you did in high school?
• 1:52:47
  Alex Kotran: Just like that you remember.
• 1:52:48
  Alex Kotran: Let's say you had a homework assignment, a test you studied for, a project, like is there anything that like you did that just still lives in your head, rent-free?
• 1:53:01
  Alex Kotran: Well, I sent you this as a prompt before, but I I didn't.
• 1:53:04
  Alex Kotran: So this is you're totally on the spot for this.
• 1:53:08
  SPEAKER_01: I have had teachers in my life who believed in me, who understood that I had potential, and fed me books outside of the curriculum because they knew that I would like them, who engaged with me after class.
• 1:53:27
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that had such a profound effect on me that I understand the role and importance of educators and how truly life-changing they can be, and to encourage you to maybe get out of your comfort zone.
• 1:53:47
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, uh I didn't have a great middle school experience, but because of the teachers that I had in high school, I joined the newspaper, student government, marching band, and I really found my people, I found my passions, and it was because of the teachers who uh were willing to give extra time.
• 1:54:08
  SPEAKER_01: It wasn't any syllabus, it wasn't any pop quiz, it wasn't any curriculum that was designed, it was the human beings who were in it for the love of the game and the love of the students.
• 1:54:22
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm so grateful to Mrs.
• 1:54:24
  SPEAKER_01: Bonichi.
• 1:54:26
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I'm gonna tear it up, because of the things that that she gave to me.
• 1:54:33
  SPEAKER_01: And so I hope that people can experience that because it's truly profound, and if you have a teacher that touches your life like that, it can be life-changing.
• 1:54:45
  SPEAKER_01: So we can only hope that everybody has that experience.
• 1:54:52
  Alex Kotran: Yeah, I mean, our teachers are the most amazing.
• 1:54:58
  Alex Kotran: It's like the most overeducated, underpaid, underutilized, expert workforce in the country.
• 1:55:06
  Alex Kotran: They're the second most trusted profession after nurses, which is another female-dominated profession, which is interesting.
• 1:55:13
  Alex Kotran: Um and they've had every reason to leave.
• 1:55:16
  Alex Kotran: COVID sucked, I mean, the the you know, moms for liberty and all the school politics.
• 1:55:24
  Alex Kotran: And I mean, it's just been and nobody is willing to support paying teachers more.
• 1:55:31
  Alex Kotran: It's like the biggest trap.
• 1:55:32
  Alex Kotran: You know, if I was gonna run for president, my my platform would all be just pay teachers like six-figure salaries and like let's do what Singapore does, or like what Japan does, where being a teacher is it's like you try to go to you you try to become a teacher, and if you fail, and it's very competitive, if you fail in Japan, your backup is okay, I'll okay, I'll go to med school.
• 1:55:51
  Alex Kotran: Like that is the level of prestige that is that is can uh conveyed to educators.
• 1:55:58
  Alex Kotran: And in this moment where we need education and it so desperately, um, yeah, if you're out there and you're a teacher, I mean, just like history is going to look back on this moment, and I think people will see that there's no one else who could help us through this.
• 1:56:17
  Alex Kotran: Because the AI labs can't do it.
• 1:56:19
  Alex Kotran: The DC probably can't do it, irrespective of who wins.
• 1:56:24
  Alex Kotran: DC DC can never do this.
• 1:56:26
  Alex Kotran: Is like every single community, it's hyper local, classroom by classroom.
• 1:56:31
  Alex Kotran: There's literally no one.
• 1:56:31
  Alex Kotran: It's like the teachers are at the um they're they're at the core.
• 1:56:39
  Alex Kotran: Yeah, they're the last ones that can really save us because and because their job is really empowering the next generation who are also our our best shot.
• 1:56:51
  SPEAKER_02: That's right.
• 1:56:52
  SPEAKER_01: So hats off uh to every teacher out there, and we're counting on you because uh we need you.
• 1:57:03
  SPEAKER_01: So we need you.
• 1:57:04
  SPEAKER_01: Let's let's do it.
• 1:57:05
  SPEAKER_01: Let's let's call let's start working on a bill uh to bump up teachers' salaries.
• 1:57:10
  SPEAKER_01: I'm happy to help lead that charge.
• 1:57:12
  SPEAKER_01: Ooh, I like that.
• 1:57:13
  Alex Kotran: That would be fun.
• 1:57:14
  Alex Kotran: How does one you know, it could be a fun just an idea for another podcast if you're up for it?
• 1:57:20
  Alex Kotran: This is great, by the way.
• 1:57:21
  Alex Kotran: Um I mean, I kind of wonder what if we like basically almost did like a master class on, you know, like the schoolhouse rock, like I'm just a bill.
• 1:57:33
  Alex Kotran: Um like I wonder if we actually like went through the process of coming up with an idea for legislation, talking about how you would actually go about doing it.
• 1:57:43
  Alex Kotran: But but like for a student audience.
• 1:57:46
  Alex Kotran: Um Yeah, we we can we can do that.
• 1:57:50
  Alex Kotran: We can do that.