Latest / ContraMinds Podcast - Unlocking Personal Growth and Professional Excellence / The Super CMO Show - Moses Gorrepati (#009)

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The Super CMO Show - Moses Gorrepati (#009) · ContraMinds Podcast - Unlocking Personal Growth and Professional Excellence

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: I like this example a lot.
• 0:01
  SPEAKER_01: I think it it it it's from one of the northern states where the boy was not able to hold the pencil because of fine motor, gross motor issues.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_01: So what the parents did, the mother, I think, uh took a potato, put the pencil and gave the potato to the kid.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_01: This child started holding the potato and they slowly started peeling the potato day by day, day by day, and the kid was able to hold the pencil.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_01: Now that parent mother would have invented out of necessity for that kid.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_01: But I'm sure if this is available for somebody else, they don't need to go through the same journey.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_00: Correct.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_00: Beautiful, beautiful.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_01: So in a large campaigns, we need to make able to make uh you know ensure that the agency is with the can with the with the people.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um about expectation by where we learned in the one of our first placements with the deaf.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_01: We place the person, the company was very happy with the deaf.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_01: And second, you know, first day he goes to work and he did well.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_01: The manager is very happy, second day he doesn't go.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_01: The company manager calls us saying that why he has not come to us, why what happened, anything wrong?
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_01: Then we found out this guy is sitting at home and watching a cricket match.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_01: Because he thought, oh why, why should I?
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, nobody told him that he has to inform.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_01: There's no expectation, right?
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_01: So from childhood, he was just, you know, nobody isn't talking to at home because all the communication to him is eat, sleep.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_01: That's all, right?
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_01: The parents are also not making communication because they don't know sign language, so there's no expectation, there's no conversation with death.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_01: So we build expectations, we we prepare people to think beyond themselves.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_01: Brilliant.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_00: Hi, Moses.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, lovely uh connecting with you and uh great to talk to you on the Contramines uh Super CMO show.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for joining in and talking to us.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you, Swami, for the opportunity and really looking forward for this conversation.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks, Moses.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_00: So, Moses, I just wanted to uh jump into the conversation where uh uh you know I wanted to talk to you about your own journey in uh you know uh Enable India.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_00: But uh before that, can you talk to me about what Enable India does and uh what's the kind of uh societal impact and the purpose and mission that the organization has got today?
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_01: So very interesting.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_01: Uh you know, it's very close to my heart.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_01: So please keep me timed uh, you know, in case if you need to.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um so at Enable India, we work for economic independence and dignity of persons with disabilities.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_01: And our work impacts across 19 disabilities.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_01: Uh that's range from uh visually impaired persons deaf and uh you know persons with physical disabilities and uh people in the autism spectrum, intellectual disabilities, multiple disabilities like uh uh profound disabilities like uh you know dark blindness and so on and so forth.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and our work also impacts across both urban and rural landscapes.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_01: Uh in the rural landscape, it's more on the uh livelihoods, um, you know, self-employment, all of that.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_01: In the urban livelihood, uh urban spaces, I think it's more with the open wage employment.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um, we uh are considered as a thought leaders in the uh livelihood space.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_01: In fact, um somebody told us, you know, we we are one of the pioneers in opening up jobs for persons with uh disabilities in the open wage employment.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_01: What do we mean by opening up a job?
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, you know, for example, um, when I was growing up, I always people told me as a visually impaired, you can be a teacher, school teacher, a lecturer, or a music teacher.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_01: But today, uh people with disabilities work across uh 300 plus job rooms, uh, you know, 29 sectors.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_01: Uh so we enable India has played a very pivotal role in opening up these choices for persons with disabilities.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and when we say opening up, what we mean by that is that making the job um you know friendly or can be done by people with disabilities.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_01: I'll give you an example to just illustrate what is opening up a job.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, you know, I think in 2004, very early, when we started in 1999, uh, and neighbor India founded by Shanti Raghwan and Deepesh Sitarya, both uh US written.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I'll tell you the their story why they started, but let me just complete illustration about what is opening up a job.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, 2004, there's a petrol uh you know station company that approached us and said we want to hire persons with disabilities.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_01: They said, Well, I mean, why not?
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_01: Uh uh why don't you look at hiring people with say different disabilities like vision impaired and all that?
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_01: They said, no, no, our job involves filling the petrol at a petrol station, you know.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so that requires you to see, see the board, I mean the the digital board and find out where the inlet is and then putting the uh you know fuel correctly and all that.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_01: So we said, well, yeah, why not?
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_01: Why don't we why don't you hire persons with hearing impairment, deaf?
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_01: People said, Oh, but how do they communicate?
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_01: Then we realized when we talked to them, uh, we realized that we don't talk about national politics or uh you know demonetization or GST or anything that kind of things at a petrol station.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_01: All that uh the common the conversation is is around um you know what what does customer want, whether customer wants petrol or diesel or gas, how much and how would they like to pay, you know, card, cash, whatever.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_01: So this is the communication.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_01: So we said, okay, well, this there's a communication we procreated a solution with the company saying that it's a wipable board which says I'm a person with hearing impairment.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_01: Please indicate your choice, right?
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_01: The deaf would go to a customer and say, please indicate your choice, and it's also in pictures, so that even if the driver is not literate, then they can see the picture.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, I want petrol, diesel, whatever, and I would like to pay cash card, how much 500 work is done.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_01: So the job, which is otherwise not possible for a deaf to do, is opened up because of this solution.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_01: So this is what we call opening up jobs, right?
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, and this is what we do uh at Enable India.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_01: Of course, today as an organization, we are focusing on um uh we are in a mission mode uh to make sure that livelihood for persons with disabilities is mainstreamed.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, we work on in the mission in collectives because we believe that we as an organization cannot do this work alone, and the problem is so huge.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_01: So we need all the actors, all the players in the in the sector to come together.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_01: So we run different collectives in for different disabilities.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_01: For example, there's a see a million, which is a mission um to transform visually impaired into active citizens and nation builders through digital empowerment.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_01: This is for visually impaired.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_01: Similarly, we have uh hearing uh for hear a million in the space of deaf, we have something coming up, something called rise a million in the space of uh cerebral policy.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, we have uh mission 1000 in the space of intellectual and severe disabilities.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_01: So we work in collectives and this is what we do.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_01: And as I said, enable India started by Shanti and Deepesh because of because of their own personal journey.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, when they were in US, both software engineers, when they were in US, um, they learned Shanti's brother uh started growing blind in India.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_01: So that time his name is Hari, and he he uh he was diagnosed with uh retinitis pigmentosa.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_01: Uh that time he was studying in I think BCOM.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_01: Uh so they uh both Shanti and Deepesh took him to US during the vacation, learned how to enable a person with vision impairment on working on computer, mobility, and all that.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and eventually they came back to India.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and that's when and they settled in Bangalore because both came back to India with their IT jobs.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_01: And uh, so that's the you know, Bangalore being the IT hub.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_01: So they came back to Bangalore and uh said, you know, how do we use this knowledge that we gained um to enable Hari?
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_01: And uh why don't we use this knowledge to enable other brothers and sisters in India?
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_01: Uh that's how over a T-Table, I mean, uh, you know, Enable India was formed uh in 1999.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_01: And what they realized very initially was um education is important, rehabilitation is important, but one thing that's a game changer is livelihoods because when the first paycheck comes to home, that's when the shift happens, right?
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_01: Because you suddenly will become part of the conversations in the family, family uh financial decisions and everything.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_01: So uh I could see that in my own life, and um that change before uh becoming independent and after becoming economically independent.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_01: So we you know, the the both Tipesh and Shanti realized it's important to focus on livelihoods, and that's how Enable India was formed.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_01: But today we uh, you know, as a you know, building ecosystem for livelihoods.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_01: So we work in the mission campaign approach, mission approach.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_01: We work with different stakeholders in the value chain, but our core focus is on the livelihoods.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_00: Fantastic, fantastic.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_00: Very it's a very inspirational story, not just uh uh you know the founders creating an organization like this, but uh somebody like you today.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_00: Uh you know, you've moved to the board of the organization, and uh, you know, you are a trustee in the organization.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_00: So uh what's your story, Moses?
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_00: So, how did it all begin?
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_00: And therefore, uh, you know, your personal story is something that can be interesting for our audience.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so uh I acquired vision impairment by birth.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and uh so obviously, like any other family, so family turned into turned to every church and uh every place that they could get to um for making sure that I get the help, uh, went to hospitals, but I think uh you know it's a combo offer that I have.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_01: It's uh glaucoma and cornea dystrophy, um, and three surgeries.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_01: Anyway, to cut the long story, that uh I was diagnosed with cornea dystrophy and glaucoma, and the doctor said you all that you can do is to retain your vision, little vision that you have in your left.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, I don't have any vision in my right eye.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, that's the condition.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, when I was growing up, the one of the things that that that made my one of the impressions on my mind very early on is about reading.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so like many millions of uh Indians, I'm also a great fan of cricket, and those days uh we had my home did not have a television.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_01: So only source of information, I mean I did not even access to radio.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um only source of information was newspaper.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_01: So uh when the newspaper comes uh to home in the morning, I almost used to run to catch it from the delivery boy's hand and run to my mother, say that please read the newspaper to me.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_01: She used to tell, look at me and said, Well, I'll read newspaper for you, no problem.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_01: But do you want me to cook or read newspaper?
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_01: And as a hungry child, I don't think I can I could ever tell her, okay, read newspaper.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_01: I always wanted to tell her read newspaper, but I always told her, No, cook.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um so that used to frustrate me because I used to go to school.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, once I come back from the school after studies, uh, once my mother is done with her housework, is when she used to read me newspaper.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_01: What used to be on my mind at that time was why am I reading the outdated paper?
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_01: Because already, if I am following a test match, obviously even the next day play would have been over.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_01: I'm actually reading the previous day's newspaper.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and to add to that, uh, as a kid growing up, my sister happens to be excited, and she used to read the move.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_01: The more the moment paper comes, she used to read her movie news that she wants to see.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_01: So that used to irritate me much further.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_01: Like, why not me?
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_01: Why is she able to read?
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not able to read.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um, of course, today I'm able to uh say this with fun, but that used to be that used to weigh me down.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, the frustration of not able to do something when I want.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_01: So to cut the long story, so I finished my um 10th standard, went to uh in I was I grew up in Vijaywada, so went to Andhra Lala College, uh took up HEC, uh history economic uh civics background, uh, and stood first in the state first uh in the general category, not not in the in the visual imped or anything or persons with disability.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_01: Then took up um you know B in English literature, uh and this all happening with friends and family's help, reading out and all that.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_01: Went to uh do master's in uh one of the prestigious central universities in Hyderabad.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and that's where I had a tipping point, the turning point, because we were asked to read Vikram Says Suitable Boy.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and it's a very bulky book.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's very good, but very, very, very bulky book.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_01: And we used to use this book to kill mosquitoes in the hostel room.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_01: Very effective.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um, nobody could read that to me.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_01: Not because friends did not want to help me, humanly impossible for somebody to read it out in a short span, right?
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_01: So I couldn't go to class for me.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_01: So that's when I and that took me, hit me very hard saying that what am I doing?
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_01: Why am I not able to do things when I want to do things?
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_01: And I was living on a thousand plus acres campus.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I had all access to all amenities that one can ask for, but never able to use any of those facilities because all that I was doing was scheduling my skill, aligning my schedule to my friend's schedule so that I can have somebody to read uh read out books to me.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_01: So that you know, really uh I was almost reaching a borderline of the depression, saying that why am I not able to do?
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_01: And I called up one of my cousins who happens to be in Bangalore at the time, working as a software engineer, and said, I heard this that the people with vision impairment can work on computer.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_01: Where can I learn?
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_01: And then he found Enable India.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, during my first year vacation of my masters, I came to Enable India, learned computers, and I think that has changed my life because I say computers are eyes for the blind, because what I couldn't do in a in a paper environment, and today being in a paperless office environment, I'm able to do things.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I do my financial management investments, I do my travel.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_01: So my wife and I are raising one-year child, so she's excited, but I take equally keen in ordering things on online, doing things so that I don't become a burden on right on spouse, right?
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_01: Because otherwise, if she has to do everything, it it will be perceived as a burden, right?
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_01: So I mean because if it is a relationship, it has to be equal relationship.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm I'm as much as uh responsible like her for my my chair to raise my child.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_01: So I really take pride in taking these doing things independently, um, taking part in social gathering, to you know, doing my booking my own travel, doing things, financial investments, all that is possible because of learning uh computers, and that's how I landed up at Enable India, and um one conversation that I overheard at Enable India hooked me into the culture, saying that this is the place I want to work.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_01: So when I was when I was when I went there to learn computers, I I was overhearing this conversation between an employment officer and a candidate with regional impairment.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_01: And this candidate with regional impairment was saying, I have an offer from one small company, and I'm also expecting another offer from an MNC.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_01: Once the those both those that offer also get released, I will take a decision on which company I will join.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_01: And this contrasting to my own life where I was always hearing that music is only an option for persons with vision impairment, it me again hit me like a boulder saying what here are people talking about choices, and I think this is the place that I want to be in.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_01: So I went back and did my masters, and then eventually I wrote a mail to Shanti, the founder of Enable India, saying that I want to work and I explained why I want to work for the sector, and that's how I landed as an intern at Enable India.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, it's been 14 years, incredible journey.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I did multiple things.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_01: I was I I used to teach uh English for visually impaired, then taught computers for blind and then worked on employment and opened up jobs.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, I actually built uh something called see a millionaire campaign that I spoke about earlier in the space of vision impairment.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um, then now working as executive director, taking care of urban livelihood mission.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, I really couldn't have asked better than this.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's an incredible journey.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_00: Inspiration.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_00: Amazing, amazing story, Marcus.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_00: I think really uh you know a story that can inspire uh many.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um so one of the things that uh, you know, uh, you know, when you when you talk about enable India and uh uh and when you say you've run campaigns like the see a million, hear a million, yeah, you know, thousand opportunities, thousand lives, thousand days.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_00: Uh so you run many campaigns, uh, you know, and uh uh you know that's something that I was really fascinated by.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_00: Uh so when you really are talking about the problem at the scale that you're talking, right?
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_00: Which is, you know, there are almost like a billion uh you know people with disabilities across the world.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_00: And in India, you've got about a hundred million uh people with uh disability.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_00: So therefore, given the scale of this problem, how do you approach a marketing problem like this?
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_00: Because you know, you are running this whole thing uh you know on scale.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_00: So, how do you break it down and how is this marketing very different from the traditional marketing that uh you know you see uh outside?
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_00: So, how do you see it as a difference?
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's a great question.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_01: So, to just put in the perspective that the scale that you are talking about, right?
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_01: So the WHO estimates about uh 15% of the population are having some form of the disability uh in countries like India.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_01: So that if we take that and put it in perspective, it's it's actually larger than Australia and the population of Australia and UK and all of that.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_01: So um, so we are dealing with such large, and there's a lot of diversity in when we talk about disability.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_01: It's not that uh all visually impaired, all deaf.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_01: You know, based on our affinity, maybe when we think about disability, what you know, maybe one or two things will come to our mind, but there are 21 disabilities, so it's huge.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_01: And um so the challenge is also about it's not about the disability itself, but the the consequences of disability.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_01: For example, as an industry, we are still at a stage where perhaps the health industry uh was about say 300, 500 years ago, or you know, which is not organized, perhaps um there is no abundance.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_01: For example, uh in say in the 16th century, perhaps everybody who's wearing specs today can be considered as a visually impaired because they simply did not have access to specs, uh, maybe in the 14th century, right?
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_01: So um, but today the wear class industry is huge.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um, there is availability, there is abundance, the people have choices.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_01: How that happened?
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_01: Because of availability and abundance.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_01: There are many actors came into the picture.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_01: Uh the lot of professions emerged.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_01: There are optimistics, there are people who ophthalmologists, anyway, so uh you know, technicians have come, then the design, the you know, fashion industry came in and said, Oh, we, you know, it's no longer just about wearing, you know, specs, but you know, there has to be stylists and so on and so forth.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_01: So if you take that parallel, right?
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_01: Like uh, for example, like compare that with the disability today, maybe the industry there's so much need, but I think the resources availability of resources is not available, or even if they're available, people don't know where they are, and things like that.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_01: So that that that's the real challenge that we need to work on.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, because it's the problem is so big and so deep, the only way that we can actually you know make progress is working in collectives.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so yeah, collective, absolutely.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_01: So, like a CMLN or a hair MLN coming together, right?
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_01: Like, because every every everybody matters, every every uh every contribution uh you know matters.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_01: So we need to design a way so that every every person, a small organization, big organization, or a or an individual can also contribute towards that larger board.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_01: Only then we will be able.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: able to uh make make progress in in you know uh to handle the problems like this right so so that's why the collective approach in the first place uh how do you how do you so how do you uh look at a collective campaign in enable india so how do you bring it together and how do you scale it because you know like a typical not-for-profit you know you are always resource crunched so therefore you don't have enough uh you know resources to do the marketing so therefore at one end uh you know uh uh let me break the break down the problem you've got to reach out to people who uh are visually impaired uh which is your uh you know audience that you are talking then you've got uh you've got a stakeholder who has to uh you know uh provide them with opportunities absolutely and then you need donors to actually go back and then say hey I want to support a campaign like this so how do you bring all of them together and uh how do you kind of organize a campaign like this absolutely I think the first thing um we at Enable India learned to uh make uh to set the narrative right we first of all need to have a positive language because language builds culture and that's something that I have I have seen in my own you know working experience how language actually matters so um one of the things that enable India has always done is uh as a contribution to the disability sector is to actually revolutionarize this language change the language that has been used um I'll give one example uh you know when I spoke about workplace solutions to open up job generally that solutions giving solutions is called as reasonable accommodations in developing nations right developed nations like countries like US UK and all that people call it reasonable accommodation that was okay in that context because it's just an accommodation people do understand what it means but bring it in the context like in a growing economy like India and when you tell a company to say hey you have to provide a reasonable accommodation what happens in the in the people's mind is that okay I'm making some accommodations to include persons with disability the reasonable may not have the weightage but it's about I'm making an uh accommodation that means I'm making something I'm adjusting or I'm making a small change so that to include so that means that I'm doing something extra yeah or almost saying that I it's almost like I'm doing a favor.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_01: Favor right so but it's what are they doing?
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_01: It's all about giving the solution for example you and I today are able to have this conversation because we are using the solution called chair to sit.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah you and I are using internet uh you know recording studio to communicate I'm not shouting from here to you know I'm in Bangalore you are in Bombay and I'm not talking to you you know shouting or troop up my I mean using my voice right so so you're using a solution so we we actually said it's about it's about workplace solutions.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_01: So when when we say with persons with disability in my case say visually impaired can work on computer using screen data which is a workplace solution.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_01: So number one I think to bring to work in a large collective we need to set the narrative using the positive language.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_01: That's why we we use persons with disability not you know differently able or any of those things because I think it's important to use the positive language.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_01: Number two I think the shared vision has to be co-created it's not that somebody is telling us to do something.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_01: And the co-creation for example in CML and here ML and this vision this mission when we create it all these visions missions are created co-created with the stakeholders that organizations coming together sitting down and say what is that we want to do and can we all rise above our own work can we think about beyond say as an organization beyond enable India somebody else beyond their organization can we look at you know can we do something more than just doing what we have been able to do that happens only when we co-create the vision together right I think that's the second part that I learned that co-creation is important.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_01: I think the third thing is having a having agency because we we can only build as you rightly mentioned build a campaign build a brand for the mission only when you give agency to everyone in the in the in the ecosystem what do you what do I mean by giving agency right what they can contribute not just viewing them as uh somebody who is consumers but uh give them uh you know a role where they can contribute for example uh we have a very interesting program called project discovery which is uh so we realize that that persons with disabilities actually use solutions every day uh and these solutions are not necessarily always very high-tech solutions um and we realized this in a very very interesting conversation once with uh um you know group of visually impaired once my founder co-founder Tipesh was talking to visually impaired group of people and said like hey in an Indian context we all keep our toothbrush together right like you know at family so how do you pick up your you know being a visually impaired your toothbrush because sighted would see green color red color and they pick up and start brushing how do you pick up so then then there are a group of you know engineers were there they were like oh maybe there has to be color recognizer and all that one hand went up from the visually impaired committee and they said I just do a scratch on the bottom of my toothbrush and put it there and I feel the scratch and pick it up somebody else said I put the rubber band and pick it up and things like that.
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_01: So we realized that there are solutions everywhere and in fact the following question was about how do you put the toothpaste on the toothbrush.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_01: And again one went hand up I said they said no I don't take I don't align it on the toothbrush I take the paste into my mouth and start brushing with my brush because it's about brushing it's not about really putting the thing on the toothpint a toothbrush.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_01: Correct so what we learned is that it's important there are solutions and we need to really understand.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_01: So uh you know we launched this project campaign called project discovery a project program called project discovery where we said you you are a person with disability or a caregiver or a rehabilitation specialist educationalist you keep innovating a lot of solutions on your day-to-day basis make a two-minute video of your solution and send it and the quality is not important the quality of the video is not important the solution is important and for last three four years we are doing this video competition today we have about three thousand plus videos available why I'm talking about this because this is what you're giving agency to people in a campaign in a mission mode when you want to make a large change where everybody should feel that they are contributors they exercise their agency you know agency and provide so it's maybe that you know maybe what they are doing may think that oh I'm just doing because out of my need I'll tell you another solution that came in this competition and I like this example a lot I think it it it's from one of the northern states where this boy was not able to hold the pencil because of fine motor gross motor issues so what the parents did the mother I think took a potato put the pencil and gave the potato to the kid the this child started holding the potato and they slowly started peeling the potato day by day day by day and the kid was able to hold the pencil.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_01: Now that parent mother would have invented out of necessity for that kid but I'm sure if this is available for somebody else they don't want to go through the same journey.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_01: Correct beautiful beautiful yeah right so in a large campaigns we need to make able to make uh you know ensure that the agency is with the can with the with the people so we spoke about language we spoke about co-creation we spoke about giving agency to people and I think I think it then it's about having that space for having a dialogue review and um you know anything that we do is about constant communication.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_01: So this is how we build um camp you know large campaigns and and of course work with the stakeholders so I hope that I answered your question.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_00: It's a beautiful it's a beautiful example of uh how uh you know uh how uh how you empower the uh you know the the stakeholders yeah uh to just get involved and that's a learning that every marketing uh you know uh uh you know uh department can take an example out of this because you're actually talking about co-creation you're talking about uh you know uh building empowerment to people who are involved yeah and I think this is something that is something that uh can be taken by any brand wanting to do marketing but this really is a very very powerful uh example and therefore how do you build the groundswell for this because you know for example uh you know you need awareness with the uh you know visually impaired or the people with disability they should know about this okay the second one is you also run something like an enable academy right where you kind of train them so talk to me about the enable academy because you're then preparing people for the empowerment opportunities right so therefore you're building an ecosystem for this and that itself is a campaign right absolutely absolutely I think that's a brilliant question how do we reach the unreached right because we may have this very good campaign but how do we get this word to the last mile and how do people know something like this happening right so um before I touch upon how what we do on enable academy we have another platform called enable vani so again we realize that enable one e is this very simple technology that works on the fear you know uh feature phone uh the smartphone is not required uh it's actually a social media networking net net networking platform that works with and without internet so so people can actually dial a number and get connected to this IVR system and people can listen to you know different audios or people you know the information about different jobs or uh stories and all that and people can also say hey I have a similar story I want to share and they can press you know three or two or whatever and then record their story and that comes to us for moderation and if we see that story is authentic that information is authentic and that also goes onto the platform.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_01: So and this is a community platform moderated community platform so uh in 2000 I think it was about 1516 we started in Karnataka called Namavani Namavani means my voice correct um so we we said you know maybe it'll be able to reach about thousand people in a year or something like that we were thinking because we were also trying to understand the power of community networks correct but we shocked to see you know no no time we reached 5,000 calls and and then what we realized is there is one guy who said I want a job in North Karnataka I'm a visually impaired and want a job in North Karnataka.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_01: Another person put a message saying that I run a shop I'm a person with disability I run a shop in you know Northern Karnataka somewhere and I am looking for somebody who can work for me.
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_00: Then we realized this is the power of the community platform to just pass the information um you know to the to the grassroots community today I think it's about 98% of the content that comes on enable one is generated by users and today we have in four languages uh you know Canada Tamil Hindi and Bengali uh why I was saying about this example of uh having a community network at a grassroot level is important because that's how we kind of spread the information and not about our just information people actually a lot of things come people actually uh and we what we have done is that we have used a concept of uh star user recognizing users who contribute regularly recognize them every month these are the star users let's just call out their names and all that and that incentive for me what it did is created a sense of belonging for people we we started seeing people taking pride in contributing to the platform so when we when we create such platforms where users take a lead and users feel a sense of urgency sense of need sense of pride in contributing back then we don't have this information gap correct that's how we are able to spread information uh brilliant about about so therefore therefore how do you build your uh you know how do you reach the unreached uh you're talking about uh you know enable vani as a community network where uh it creates user generated content and the uh you know in marketing world we talk about it as UGC but you are building it as uh user generated content in your uh uh you know uh community networks and therefore you reach the unreached and that's really how you build the pull from the people who need a support right absolutely and when people are seeing value in coming because what we saw that people there are people uh who will not complete their day unless they log in at least three times onto the platform a lot of people asked me Moses but how do you ensure that it's always up and running I said yeah well you know we don't need to think about technical solutions because there are communities always watching out even if they're if the platform is down for a minute we will get to know because the community is actually because the people are waiting to log into the platform right so when you created that sense of belongingness uh I think you know a lot of uh you know monitoring evaluation that we traditional way that we talk about can be taken care of but fully giving the control yeah okay so therefore uh to uh reach the unreached you built a community network to attract them into uh you know into your uh you know into your fold right now how do you uh you know how do you attract the ones who want to give these uh you know uh people with uh you know disabilities the opportunity and emperor so how do you reach out to them through campaigns absolutely I think again that's a very interesting question with the uh nothing uh you know sexy like success right so one of the things when we when we talk about employers uh what we did uh very early is that we built something called business case so we went to corporate saying that uh you only hire persons with disability if it makes your business sense and we we tell you how it's important and it's imperative for your business to hire uh persons with disabilities over the years we kind of you know we evolved a business case where we talk about how uh your own leadership quotient will your ability to solve problems will increase if you have persons with disabilities in your team your team morale will go up you will have a access to an alternate uh pool of suitable candidates because you otherwise you are not looking at persons with disabilities as your potential pool but suddenly now when you tap into that you will have a talent pool there and so on so forth so we created a business proposition in the first place.
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_01: Second thing that's what we realized is we always have to understand the challenge from their perspective see I think people even today there's a lot more work to be done there are a lot of more companies can hire a lot more work to be done it's not that companies are not hiring because they don't want to hire persons with disability it's just that they don't know how to include so when you think from their perspective what is the things that can go wrong in our workshops we talk about actually very uh and this is innovation by Shanti um you know when we talk about disability a lot of times you know we can talk about so many technical details and all that people get scared because people are not able to visualize hey I as an individual who have eyesight cannot do things without eyesight how will this person who has no eyesight can do these things obviously people will not be able to visualize.
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_01: So what we have done is that demystifying disability is very important in the terms that that is relatable to people so in our workshop we actually talk about disability as an ability and inability and today if I ask you what is your inability for example your inability can be swimming or cooking or in my case singing for example I can't sing in my own bathroom.
• 39:43
  SPEAKER_01: So it's just my inability but I have some other abilities and how do we overcome some of our inabilities using solution for example we don't climb up you know 50th 54th floor by steps because we have inability of going up that that height so we use elevator as a solution you know if I have to come to you and meet you in Bombay you know I can't fly like a bird that's my inability but I can use a plane to fly.
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_01: So that's a solution.
• 40:13
  SPEAKER_01: So we we actually so we understood the problem from the employer side how deep it is it's about you know when when nobody has exposure you know that's in for them it's a disability what can person with disability do because they are not able to visualize if they they can't hear they can't speak or they can't see they can't walk for a minute they they're not able to visualize their life but here is somebody with a disability has overcome the challenge or or have solution to overcome the challenge have had the journey it's not overnight uh the person is ready for uh you know you know working or doing things so we designed our awareness programs our engagement from the understanding from the perspective of employer so that's why we have a very nuanced approach to uh you know to to rally people to bring people or our outreach for the uh employers the nuanced is for example we also not only just do awareness for top leaders or uh or hiring people we also conduct workshops for peers because they have to work with persons with disability day in and day out and their understanding of disability has to be very different from a you know hiring or a CEO level or a hiring boss or whatever right so and we we we we actually created a term called includability ability to include includability uh again this word is coined by Shanti at Enable India so which is about we realize that ability to include is no longer just a you know you know it's not it's not having awareness it's actually a skill it requires competency and it requires knowledge right so we've created the third and we actually run um you know programs for leaders to become includable and so on and so forth.
• 42:09
  SPEAKER_00: So in short what you asked build a business case understood the problem from their perspective and and created a you know interventions at multiple levels and that can be consumed in a small bit bite size as well so this is how we work with the employers very interesting so you know I I want to summarize what you said in a couple of what you're saying so what you do really is build the uh you know build the groundswell in corporates yeah uh by making by building awareness with people with abilities about their disabilities right yeah abilities and yeah inabilities yeah yeah so therefore uh that's how you build the uh momentum there how do you uh how do you uh identify therefore the relatability gets built right because there's then we say hey like you have inabilities persons with disabilities but I love I love that I love the inability and the ability comparison I think it's a beautiful way of uh you know making it relevant and uh it's a it's a it's a communication language or it's a marketing language where people can relate it to right uh the relatability is very high yeah uh how do you identify the stakeholders in a corporate because you've got a CEO you've got a you know a hiring team you've got a peer so therefore uh how do you really reach out to these corporates because they uh you know you need a massive uh amount of uh uh you know reaching out capability in terms of doing these workshops right yeah so that's where I think the you know actually um today reaching out to companies is not a problem because when you build a brand or when you build a mission brand like disability cause um and people are coming for like actually we don't reach out to companies
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_01: That proactively to say, okay, we want to work with you.
• 44:03
  SPEAKER_01: Somehow people are seeing what's happening with you know company.
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_01: Because initially, when we placed people with disabilities, uh, even now, we will only ask company to hire if they feel absolutely that candidate is fit.
• 44:19
  SPEAKER_01: So, therefore, the you were you were your candidates are your brand ambassadors.
• 44:24
  SPEAKER_01: So their work speaks for the quality of you know, uh, therefore, companies come forward today.
• 44:30
  SPEAKER_01: Actually, interestingly, we have a problem of more demand.
• 44:33
  SPEAKER_01: Of course, there's a lot more to be done.
• 44:35
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not saying that every company is ready to hire, but there is a lot more demand than the readiness of the supply itself because I today I battle not having enough people who are suitable to get into the corporates.
• 44:50
  SPEAKER_01: That's because of not the capability issue, it's about awareness and access and multiple other things.
• 44:56
  SPEAKER_01: So, capability may be there, but you know, access needs to be there, and awareness about this has to be there.
• 45:02
  SPEAKER_01: So that so then there is more on the supply side than the corporate.
• 45:08
  SPEAKER_01: So to answer your question, I think it's it's about really building that call, you know, mission brand out there, and all your candidates as your brand ambassadors, you don't have a problem of going and convincing companies to hire for persons with higher personal disability.
• 45:26
  SPEAKER_01: Where it becomes intensive is to work with each company to say um you know how they go through the life cycle.
• 45:32
  SPEAKER_01: And you asked a question about how do we how do we reach out to whom do we reach out to people, I mean in the corporate where there are multiple layers.
• 45:39
  SPEAKER_01: I think that depends on the life cycle where they are today.
• 45:42
  SPEAKER_01: For example, some some start with, and we always say if you are a new company, and I personally, for example, um encourage companies to start with volunteering because that's a beautiful way of starting.
• 45:56
  SPEAKER_01: Because you know, when you say go and do a trekking with visually impaired or uh uh you know watch a movie with visually impaired, or go out and do something with deaf, you will actually you are interacting with community in a non-threatening environment.
• 46:11
  SPEAKER_01: You are not sitting and thinking, Oh my god, I have to hire this person and I have to make that person work, and it's a client interfacing role, and I have a time-sensitive targets, and you are scared already.
• 46:22
  SPEAKER_01: But in an unthreatening environment, you are going for a movie, and you your role is maybe to go out with that visually impaired to explain the uh movie uh you know, wherever there is a no description, only visuals are there.
• 46:35
  SPEAKER_01: You are in a chilled environment.
• 46:36
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you're talking nicely, and you will build that comfort, and you will learn more about that person.
• 46:42
  SPEAKER_01: In the beginning, maybe you will see, oh my god, when I meet Moses, he's a visually impaired.
• 46:46
  SPEAKER_01: How will I talk?
• 46:47
  SPEAKER_01: But when you start talking to me, when you start interacting with me, you will learn, you know, I like sports, I'm learning golf, and uh, you know, I'm I'm a foodie, and you know, so the dominant story about disability will start going down, and you'll start learning about me as an individual.
• 47:05
  SPEAKER_01: So we tell companies to start as a volunteering, and then you know, then based on their where they are in their life cycle, for example, their immediate hiring need, then we go for hiring.
• 47:16
  SPEAKER_01: Some companies say, no, no, we want to first systematically work on the sensitization, let's do that.
• 47:22
  SPEAKER_01: So, all of that.
• 47:24
  SPEAKER_00: Fantastic.
• 47:25
  SPEAKER_00: So, uh, so the point that you made, I'm I'm kind of uh moving there, which is to say, uh, how do you prepare people uh uh uh for these opportunities is key, and that's where your Enable Academy probably comes in, and therefore, uh how and what do you do there?
• 47:44
  SPEAKER_00: Because I can see that there are lots of tools and resources that you have built for people to get uh competent in those areas.
• 47:52
  SPEAKER_00: So, how do you build this?
• 47:54
  SPEAKER_00: Talk to me about the Enable Academy and what uh what happens to people and how do you transform uh you know these people?
• 48:01
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 48:02
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's an important thing.
• 48:03
  SPEAKER_01: So, one of the first things that we do uh in transforming persons with disability, we start with a very, very simple thing called expectation.
• 48:13
  SPEAKER_03: Right?
• 48:14
  SPEAKER_01: When I was growing up, uh Swami, when I was one, and people used to come to my house, relatives and all that, they used to ask my sister, hey, what will you become when you grow up?
• 48:24
  SPEAKER_01: But I never heard that question to me.
• 48:28
  SPEAKER_01: Why?
• 48:28
  SPEAKER_01: Because people are saying, Oh, Moses is here, you know, maybe already going through the lot of medical interventions.
• 48:35
  SPEAKER_01: There is no expectation from me.
• 48:37
  SPEAKER_01: It's not that they they don't want me to succeed in life, but people who genuinely concerned, you know, he's going through operations and this and that and all that.
• 48:48
  SPEAKER_01: Will I ask him what he will become in the future?
• 48:50
  SPEAKER_01: That's not the question.
• 48:52
  SPEAKER_01: So, what does that do to a visually impaired or a person with disability?
• 48:57
  SPEAKER_01: No, when you have a sibling uh you know who is constantly sent to say to the neighbor store uh store in the neighborhood to get something, you are not get going there, you are not getting that opportunity.
• 49:09
  SPEAKER_01: What it does is that you will you will slowly miss those life experiences of going out and buying that bread and coming back, and in the process, you ask for a change, take change, whatever that that whole transaction experience you're losing.
• 49:24
  SPEAKER_01: Therefore, there's a threat that sometimes persons with disabilities can put in that self-prison where they themselves start seeing themselves as somebody who needs help.
• 49:36
  SPEAKER_00: Perfect.
• 49:38
  SPEAKER_01: So we need to first break that we at Enable India and with our partners, what we do is that we first, when they come to us, we ask them to form the rules.
• 49:49
  SPEAKER_01: And we say that including trainers will follow that rules.
• 49:53
  SPEAKER_01: What does it mean?
• 49:54
  SPEAKER_01: That we are we are telling them we expect you to form the rules, we expect you to control the training.
• 50:00
  SPEAKER_01: So our enablement with candidates starts with expectations.
• 50:06
  SPEAKER_01: That's the first step.
• 50:08
  SPEAKER_01: Then, interestingly, what we do, and some of the building blocks that I will talk about, obviously, the trainings like the platforms like Enable Academy will give them a lot of knowledge, courses, all of that, depth, understanding of how to say, you know, get ready for a job and all that.
• 50:26
  SPEAKER_01: But in our training programs, we actually focus on building attitude.
• 50:32
  SPEAKER_01: Can you, you know, we we talk about you are you know, say you are a deaf or person with physical disability, spinal cord injury.
• 50:41
  SPEAKER_01: When you overcome your challenges, can you start thinking about how you can contribute to the society?
• 50:48
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, training programs, we say the 40 hours of mandatory community work, people say, What?
• 50:56
  SPEAKER_01: I am blind.
• 50:56
  SPEAKER_01: How will I contribute?
• 50:58
  SPEAKER_01: That's something you need to find out.
• 51:00
  SPEAKER_01: So people form small groups of their own, uh, and they take up the causes that are close to their hearts and start contributing back.
• 51:10
  SPEAKER_01: For example, one of the batch, yeah, one of the batches in um in Kerala went to a government hospital and saw that the parents uh you know not bringing children for vaccination because there is no breastfeeding booth or the cabin in the hospital.
• 51:30
  SPEAKER_01: And they wanted to build that.
• 51:33
  SPEAKER_01: And they went to hospital and said, Oh, we need money.
• 51:36
  SPEAKER_01: Obviously, government hospitals, we don't have money.
• 51:39
  SPEAKER_01: So they they worked and built a you know this breastfeeding uh booth uh so that the you know parents can bring their young children for vaccinations.
• 51:51
  SPEAKER_01: They did that.
• 51:52
  SPEAKER_01: Somebody else took up a project of rescuing dogs, somebody else took up a uh you know, project of teaching computer for transgenders, so on so forth.
• 52:04
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, people will take up things, so it's shifting from oh I am a I'm blind, I am deaf, I'm this, to no, I am an active contributor, I am taking charge, I am a volunteer, I am a count, I am a change maker.
• 52:22
  SPEAKER_01: So this is this another shift that we do in our training programs, and that that's where all the academy or that that you referred will come into the picture to facilitate at scale.
• 52:33
  SPEAKER_01: Obviously, some courses need to scale, so it's not that everybody needs to come to Enable India.
• 52:38
  SPEAKER_01: So, like a platform like Enable Academy will take us to more people, but our curriculum, our noir, and the you know, it's all this again, these these insights came from our past experience when we start placing people in different companies.
• 52:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and about expectation why where we learnt is the one of our first placements with the deaf.
• 53:01
  SPEAKER_01: We place the person, the company was very happy with the deaf.
• 53:04
  SPEAKER_01: And sec, you know, first day he goes to work and he did well.
• 53:08
  SPEAKER_01: The manager is very happy, second day he doesn't go.
• 53:11
  SPEAKER_01: The company manager calls us saying that why he has not come to us, why what happened, anything wrong?
• 53:16
  SPEAKER_01: Then we found out this guy is sitting at home and watching a cricket match because he thought, oh, why why should I?
• 53:25
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, nobody told him that he has to inform.
• 53:27
  SPEAKER_01: There's no expectation, right?
• 53:28
  SPEAKER_01: So from childhood, he was just, you know, nobody isn't talking to at home because all the communication to him is eat, sleep.
• 53:36
  SPEAKER_01: That's all, right?
• 53:36
  SPEAKER_01: The parents are also not making communication because they don't know sign language, so there's no expectation, there's no conversation with deaf.
• 53:43
  SPEAKER_01: So we build expectations, we we prepare people to think beyond themselves.
• 53:50
  SPEAKER_01: Brilliant.
• 53:50
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so that's the real crux of our our programs, you know, where then obviously up close you give all the things required to to work in a company, you know, getting them ready for a job.
• 54:03
  SPEAKER_01: And we always say don't don't get ready to pass the interview, you know, gain skills that are that will help you to progress in your job, like become a quality, you know, the quality conscious and things like that.
• 54:16
  SPEAKER_01: And we do it beautifully with this lot of uh examples, very simple examples and scenarios.
• 54:22
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, for example, we talk to deaf about quality.
• 54:25
  SPEAKER_01: We show a you know, you know, one very good banana and uh you know black-looking banana, and say, which one do you like?
• 54:32
  SPEAKER_01: Obviously, people say, right, you know, very yellow one, nice, black, bad, you know, not good to eat.
• 54:39
  SPEAKER_01: So, like this, therefore, quality is important, right?
• 54:43
  SPEAKER_01: In in in jobs.
• 54:44
  SPEAKER_01: So simple things, but I think the real pivot is preparing people for life than just a job.
• 54:52
  SPEAKER_00: So, so therefore, if I look at the uh, you know, if I look at the puzzle, yeah, uh, one is reaching the unreached, the other one is getting the stakeholders who can give them opportunities.
• 55:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, the uh third is preparing the uh you know people who have reached uh with the right life skills so that they can be ready to be employed.
• 55:12
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 55:13
  SPEAKER_00: And the fourth stakeholder is uh, you know, you need resources for all this.
• 55:18
  SPEAKER_00: So, how do you build your uh you know the donors and the supporters for an initiative like this?
• 55:23
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 55:24
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that's a very uh very good question.
• 55:26
  SPEAKER_01: So um I mean for something like this in disability, uh we need uh donors uh who are willing to understand, right?
• 55:35
  SPEAKER_01: So um obviously uh when we work with some different stakeholders like donors, we we do uh as much as they select us, we also select them based on the value match and so on and so forth.
• 55:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I think uh you know, so far, I mean, we we put we make that effort to uh you know co-create this again with the with the with the donor saying that hey, this is what it is and this is what we believe works, and um not just say agreeing to the you know there are there are funders that we said no as well to say okay, I mean you may be a great funder, but there is no alignment.
• 56:15
  SPEAKER_01: So then you you you've got to be willing to say no when you need to say no and work with people who'll understand you, who is willing to learn uh the depth, the complexity, and willing to invest in systems, right?
• 56:32
  SPEAKER_01: It's not always about how many you train, how many you place.
• 56:36
  SPEAKER_01: That's important.
• 56:37
  SPEAKER_01: But in in in case like disability, we need to invest in the system because I spoke about how how healthcare industry has invested in systems and therefore today they're where they are, right?
• 56:48
  SPEAKER_00: Like correct, correct.
• 56:51
  SPEAKER_01: So so those are the things that we do uh with with the donors.
• 56:56
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, I think it's about how we communicate our own convictions for me.
• 57:00
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of times I I say, um, I think there are a lot of good people out there willing to help.
• 57:07
  SPEAKER_01: There's no doubt on that.
• 57:08
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm I can come across a very optimistic, but I'm saying with with my own 15 years of experience in this space, there are a lot more people than we think who are willing to stretch that hand.
• 57:20
  SPEAKER_01: It's about how we communicate, how do we put our perspective and and speak in the language that they understand and bring them to the narrative ship that we want to want them to understand.
• 57:34
  SPEAKER_00: So therefore, uh so for sorry, yeah.
• 57:37
  SPEAKER_00: So, therefore, from a donor perspective, it's about not just the money, but it's about the value alignment.
• 57:43
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 57:43
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and therefore, that's really when uh actually you're able to uh you know build the momentum for something like this, right?
• 57:51
  SPEAKER_00: Uh yeah, the other interesting thing, uh Moses, I wanted to talk about is really the organization that works for all this, right?
• 57:59
  SPEAKER_00: Because you know, I saw you are a great place to work, okay?
• 58:02
  SPEAKER_00: So how do you build uh how do you attract talent?
• 58:06
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, uh, especially in a place like say Bangalore, for example, you may be having offices everywhere, but uh when people are saying, you know what, uh, you know, I need the money, uh, you know, if you don't give me an increment, I will leave, I'll move to the next job.
• 58:20
  SPEAKER_00: So, how do you attract talent and how do you ensure that you become the place to work for?
• 58:26
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so how do you how do you really see through this?
• 58:29
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, you know, people who want to work for Enable India?
• 58:32
  SPEAKER_01: That's again a very interesting question.
• 58:34
  SPEAKER_01: And I think um over the years, what we realized is organizations, I mean, any everybody knows this, organizations are made up of people, and in the sector like disability, we need people with the right amount of passion and skills both.
• 58:50
  SPEAKER_01: So we at Enable India always believed that um you know we may not be able to pay like corporate big salaries, but we have to help them to realize their purpose, right?
• 59:03
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and obviously have to pay them fairly good because when we're talking about dignity, we have to talk about the dignity of our staff, you know, because they can't they can't be working on this complex challenges thinking, you know, will will my salary for the month be enough?
• 59:21
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 59:21
  SPEAKER_01: I mean we we make sure that there are a lot of other small things we do uh to be able to cater to.
• 59:28
  SPEAKER_01: For example, we at uh Enable India, for example, have a welfare fund that can be given out to people, and there is a committee again that that's managed by staff themselves.
• 59:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um, there are levels when they need when the staff needs an access to money.
• 59:44
  SPEAKER_01: We we do understand going to a bank and taking a personal loan can actually weaken your financial uh situation, right?
• 59:54
  SPEAKER_01: So so we do understand.
• 59:55
  SPEAKER_01: So we have an interest interest-free loans and small things like that to make sure that there is a comfort, uh, and we do uh constantly do the market surveys and benchmark ourselves with organizations where we kind of reasonably pay them well to make sure that we take care of dignity.
• 1:00:14
  SPEAKER_01: But having said that, I think the the real thing is uh nurturing the potential, nurturing the passion.
• 1:00:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I think that uh you know aligning when getting the right talent and uh is important at Enable India, we actually look at people who are humble because uh fortunately and unfortunately, the sector where we are in, we have to learn constantly.
• 1:00:36
  SPEAKER_01: I can't say I I have arrived, I worked as a CEO in an X company and I know how to work.
• 1:00:42
  SPEAKER_01: Uh so we are not in a very standard manufacturing company, correct, right?
• 1:00:48
  SPEAKER_01: Even manufacturing is complex.
• 1:00:50
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just saying that uh to just simplify, right?
• 1:00:52
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just using, for example, if you're just manufacturing bottles, water bottles, even there, there is a complexity now, how A is coming and then all that, but but that's there's a process, yeah.
• 1:01:05
  SPEAKER_00: But I think I think uh but I think the point that you are making is the purpose comes before the job, right?
• 1:01:12
  SPEAKER_00: And uh once I have an alignment of purpose, yes, then the job needs to ensure that you are fairly compensated.
• 1:01:20
  SPEAKER_00: So we so therefore we talked about the alignment of the talent uh uh in terms of their purpose, and therefore the job and the role, and hence uh the compensation as a fair compensation for people.
• 1:01:34
  SPEAKER_00: That's when this works, is what you are saying, right?
• 1:01:37
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely, absolutely, absolutely.
• 1:01:39
  SPEAKER_01: Uh yeah, I mean we invest in people, so uh you know there are there are many ways of making sure that the well-being of the staff are taken care of, right?
• 1:01:49
  SPEAKER_01: So um there are programs that people can uh have access to, mental health.
• 1:01:55
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, I spoke about uh you know the interest-free loans.
• 1:01:59
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, you know, we we we encourage people to um represent uh you know uh represent in different conferences and uh stay relevant, get opportunity to um you know speak, uh, you know, all of that.
• 1:02:16
  SPEAKER_01: So I think all of this will really help people to see the purpose and constantly they learn.
• 1:02:23
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's another thing that we do uh at Enable India is to make sure that the you know the there are enough challenges for people to keep aspiring.
• 1:02:33
  SPEAKER_00: So therefore, if I were to summarize it, uh Moses, the way I'm looking at it is the core and the central uh idea is the purpose in the mission.
• 1:02:44
  SPEAKER_00: And the uh and that purpose and mission uh you know will attract the unreached through uh community marketing, uh, you know, through user-generated content, there where you're actually uh you know building a certain amount of pull for uh you know the people who you want to support.
• 1:03:03
  SPEAKER_00: Then you are actually educating the stakeholders who provide the opportunity, therefore, you are almost feeding the market, and therefore you're uh you know growing them, and that's the second stakeholder that you manage.
• 1:03:16
  SPEAKER_00: The third stakeholders are people who want to contribute for the cost, so you invite them and start getting them in and then uh getting them to see a difference, but then the value alignment is more important than the money, and therefore, that is when cost-related marketing can really work.
• 1:03:33
  SPEAKER_00: And finally, you look at people again.
• 1:03:36
  SPEAKER_00: If they are not aligned to the purpose and mission, then you will not be able to uh you know get the best out of them.
• 1:03:41
  SPEAKER_00: So, all these are all the Lego blocks that you need to bring in to succeed in cost-related marketing, right?
• 1:03:49
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely, absolutely.
• 1:03:50
  SPEAKER_01: Put it beautifully.
• 1:03:51
  SPEAKER_01: So the building blocks are that, yeah.
• 1:03:54
  SPEAKER_00: Fantastic, fantastic.
• 1:03:56
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, so when you when you look back, uh Moses, uh, you know, uh, if you were to uh look at some learnings for marketers, uh, what would you say uh you know uh uh is key uh if you want cost-related marketing to uh you know succeed?
• 1:04:15
  SPEAKER_00: If you were if you if you were to say what are the top three things that any marketer in uh a not-for-profit, if you are looking at uh you know doing this, what would you think are the three non-negotiables that they should look at?
• 1:04:28
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 1:04:29
  SPEAKER_01: I think one is co-creation because um it's not something that we have the solution and you you need to receive it.
• 1:04:38
  SPEAKER_01: It's not that.
• 1:04:38
  SPEAKER_01: So I think any any any marketing, um, if you want to take it to the masses in this development space, the solutions have to be co-created.
• 1:04:50
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 1:04:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I think second is that the lens of a marketing person to see these are consumers only, not contributors.
• 1:05:00
  SPEAKER_01: I think that needs to change.
• 1:05:01
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of times we push content or information or strategy from the perspective of what we think.
• 1:05:10
  SPEAKER_01: But I think if we take a change that lens to how, I mean, how do I ensure my consumers actually can contribute?
• 1:05:19
  SPEAKER_01: I I know that's a slightly difficult to do, but I think that's what I as personally are going through the journey at Enable India to see how each person with disability that we serve look at them as a contributors rather than just as a receiver.
• 1:05:36
  SPEAKER_01: And then your whole whole the way of working will change.
• 1:05:41
  SPEAKER_01: Because you'll start seeing more potential than what you otherwise think.
• 1:05:46
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 1:05:47
  SPEAKER_00: Fantastic.
• 1:05:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I think I think language builds culture.
• 1:05:52
  SPEAKER_01: So I think focusing on um appropriate language and language always evolves as as a human evolution.
• 1:06:00
  SPEAKER_01: Happens.
• 1:06:00
  SPEAKER_01: So especially in the cause like disability, I think when you are setting a narrative, I think using the right language is important.
• 1:06:09
  SPEAKER_01: I'm taking that and urging all the you know folks in the marketing field because you have a great power of setting the narrative using the right positive language.
• 1:06:18
  SPEAKER_01: Cause can be anything.
• 1:06:19
  SPEAKER_01: Tomorrow it can be something, it can be woman cause, it can be LGBTQI, or it could be anything.
• 1:06:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I think uh I will give an example.
• 1:06:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um we actually work in uh we we are working on enabling visually impaired um girls to be uh doing an early detection of breast cancer using the methodology called discovering hands, which is touch and feel method.
• 1:06:46
  SPEAKER_01: So when we were talking recently and somebody actually then we were talking about how we do the early detection of the breast cancer and all that, but one of the doctors told me that Moses, I think we should talk about uh breast health in general, not just about only the uh the what the girls would do screening.
• 1:07:09
  SPEAKER_01: Then I understood it's it's about really that like if you can set the narrative about the breast health, screening has to happen automatically.
• 1:07:17
  SPEAKER_01: So don't don't push the solution what you have, rather understand what's the larger context that's really required for people, then your solution might actually help.
• 1:07:28
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you have a solution of visually impaired girls doing screening.
• 1:07:32
  SPEAKER_01: That's the solution, perhaps.
• 1:07:34
  SPEAKER_00: But I think beautiful, beautiful.
• 1:07:36
  SPEAKER_00: I think what you're really talking about is if you talk brand health, uh, you know, then sorry, sorry, the uh if you talk about breast health, then uh you know the rest of the components uh automatically come together and therefore build a platform for the purpose, and then the components come together, and that's really how you need to look at it, is what you are saying.
• 1:07:58
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 1:07:59
  SPEAKER_00: Brilliant, brilliant.
• 1:08:01
  SPEAKER_00: So thanks, Moses.
• 1:08:03
  SPEAKER_00: It was a very, very inspiring session.
• 1:08:05
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, you know, the work that you are doing uh is amazing.
• 1:08:10
  SPEAKER_00: The you know, the way you touch people, the number of uh uh you know, people whom you touch and change lives uh is uh commendable, and uh I'm truly inspired by this conversation and thanks a lot for taking time and talking to me.
• 1:08:25
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much.
• 1:08:26
  SPEAKER_01: I I really enjoy what we do, and I think that's what taking us uh you know, helping us to do what we are doing.
• 1:08:33
  SPEAKER_01: But thank you so much for the opportunity, and I think you are doing an important work of taking a message like this to the larger audience.
• 1:08:41
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much.
• 1:08:42
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for listening to this episode.
• 1:08:44
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• 1:08:51
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• 1:09:14
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