Latest / Foul Territory / Andrew Marchand grades MLB’s new media rights deals, Opt-out recovery

Transcript

Andrew Marchand grades MLB’s new media rights deals, Opt-out recovery · Foul Territory

• 0:04
  Speaker 1: All right, here we go. We're back.
• 0:05
  Speaker 2: Let's finally dig into this MLB deal. We wanted to
• 0:08
  Speaker 2: wait for the specialist in this category, Andrew Marshan, joining
• 0:11
  Speaker 2: us right now on FT senior sports media columnists for
• 0:13
  Speaker 2: The Athletic twice a week. You can listen to his pod.
• 0:16
  Speaker 2: Just go to Andrew Marshan and mr cha n D
• 0:18
  Speaker 2: dot com. Andrew, Great to have you on, and I
• 0:21
  Speaker 2: wanted to just start with a little bit on your
• 0:23
  Speaker 2: column regarding this deal for MLB. We've known about the
• 0:27
  Speaker 2: teams involved, You've talked about him too, for months. How
• 0:30
  Speaker 2: do you grade this deal? I think most fans look
• 0:32
  Speaker 2: at the money, but they don't realize some of what
• 0:34
  Speaker 2: MLB had to sell away to make up for the
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: money that they gave up with this opt out that
• 0:39
  Speaker 2: you can help describe.
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah, if you look overall, I probably give them C
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: plus maybe B minus. I think they netted out. Okay,
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: I mean you have to really go back to when
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: they first did the ESPN deal. Jimmy Pittarro, chairman of
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: ESPN and Rob Manford, commissioner the Baseball wanted opt out
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: in that deal, and that deal they were set to
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: pay for the final three seasons of a seven year
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: deal one point six five billion dollars. MLB said we
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: would like an opt out for after four years to
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: the final three years, and then ESPN said, well, if
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: you want to opt out, we want to opt out.
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: Then this past February, ESPN used it. So when you
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: look at what that deal was for, it was for
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: home run derby, the playoffs, eight to twelve playoff games,
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: first round, and then Sunday Night Baseball. So they were
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: going to pay one point sixty five billion. Those assets
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: now are going to be with NBC, Slash, Peacock and
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: Netflix and will be for a round nine hundred million
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: dollars no excuse me, seven hundred and fifty million dollars
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: for the next three seasons. That's a nine hundred million
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: dollar difference. So what they did was they said, we
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: want to make up that money, so they sold MLB
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: dot tv or license it for the next three years.
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: That will be ESPN. They got that one point sixty
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: five billion dollars back, and so that is similar money
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: when you look at where they ended up, but they
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: had to sell their prize jewel for the next three
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: years in MOLB dot TV.
• 2:11
  Speaker 3: I got it there's so many things that I want
• 2:12
  Speaker 3: to unpack here, and it's probably a way above my
• 2:15
  Speaker 3: intelligence grade. So if I say something dumb, just tell me.
• 2:18
  Speaker 3: But you said Manfred wanted to put in that opt out.
• 2:23
  Speaker 3: Had he never put in that opt out, it would
• 2:25
  Speaker 3: have been status quo and they would have stayed on path.
• 2:28
  Speaker 3: Am am, I correct, And this would have been they
• 2:30
  Speaker 3: would have finished out the three year deal and ended
• 2:32
  Speaker 3: up kicking him in the face, and they lost a
• 2:36
  Speaker 3: ton of money. Like owners need to realize that he
• 2:39
  Speaker 3: for this move, he lost a ton of money. And
• 2:42
  Speaker 3: the players, Am I right.
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: You are correct? You know they'll argue that they made
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: up the money and that they would to have had
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: these discussions if there wasn't that opt out. Here's the
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: thing when you cover media and just to understand the
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: deal and why that opt out did not make any sense.
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: Media companies do not want three year deals. They want
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: If you look at the NFL deals, the recent ones
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: are for eleven years, as are the NBA ones. NFL
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: has an opt out, but eleven year deals. This deal,
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: after why did Major League Baseball and go back to
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: that seven year deal? The reason they had to take
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: less money a little bit less money for that deal.
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: Why was that they didn't have other bidders. It wasn't
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: like they were doing ESPN a favor if they had
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: other bidders. So going on, that's the case for what
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: the Sunday Night Baseball home run derby ate the twelve
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: playoff games, and that original deal didn't have the eight
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: to twelve that was added a little bit later. But
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: you don't have other bidders. Now you could say, well,
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: there's a lot of there's the netflixes and all these
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: other digital players coming in, so maybe in four years
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: will be better, but you have to know that nobody
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: really wants three year contracts, so you go back into
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: the market and that's where they really made the mistake,
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: and then ESPN used the opt out. He has been
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: ended up being right because they're saying, no, this, these
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: games aren't worth one point sixty five billion dollars over
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: three years, and the market said, yeah, that's correct, they're
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: way they're worth way less than they are. And another
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: point I'd make is that they got a premium on
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: Sunday excuse me, on MLB dot tv uh and you
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: know there's estimates, maybe it's two hundred million dollars extra
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: a year, which is great, but MLB dot TV they've
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: been they haven't want to they haven't wanted to license
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: that ever. And now they put a number on it
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: that yes, in a couple of years when they when
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: it goes to market, maybe again maybe they can increase
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: that a lot. But it just happened to be the
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: same one point six y five billion dollars at ESPN
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: instead of if they put maybe this is what this
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: is worth, this is a maybe it's worth three billion. Again,
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: you can only get what the market will say. But
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: they just got the money back and it felt like
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: a little bit like a band aid that said, let
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: me be a little positive. The partners that they have
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: ESPN continues Netflix you get involved, which was a good
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: money deal on the Netflix deal, uh, and then the
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: NBC and Peacock. That's good when you go into after
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: twenty eight when all their deals are up. To put
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: some ducks on the pod for Manford Company.
• 5:06
  Speaker 3: My question, the question that most fans have to me
• 5:12
  Speaker 3: is with them, are they going Is this going to
• 5:14
  Speaker 3: fix the blackouts? No, so nothing will be fixed on that.
• 5:20
  Speaker 3: So fans really could care less about any of this
• 5:22
  Speaker 3: except for the fact that they have to get four
• 5:25
  Speaker 3: new subscriptions to be able to see some of their teams.
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: Now, I'm going to defend the MLB on this. The
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: thing about the blackouts, it's not that MLB doesn't want
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: to get rid of blackouts. I think they would do
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: it tomorrow, and I think Manford and company are trying
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: to do that for twenty eight when all their national
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: deals are up, and they want to make it so
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: they can have a thirty team local package that you
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: can buy digitally and get a large percentage of your games,
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: of your team's games. But those rules are into cable
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: contracts and they're legal, and they're arcane, yes, but it's
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: not like you can just snap your fingers and say nope,
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: you can't. Because these regional sports networks, which are diminishing,
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: they have their rights to certain territories. Some I think
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: everyone would agree, don't make any sense because of how
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: far they go and how you're not really close to
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: this team and you can't see their games. So yeah,
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: there are problems with that, but I don't really think
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: that's me. They know the issue, they would solve it
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: today if they could. It's just not they can't just
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: snap their fingers and say we're gonna do things differently,
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: you know, as these regional sports networks, and we've seen
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: with six teams who are now part of this ESPN deal,
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: but you'll be able to buy their in market games.
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: That's kind of where the future is going. Not necessarily
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: will be with ESPN, but Amazon could be players for this,
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: you know, a couple of years. Apple could be players.
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: You know, there's a number of other places that maybe
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: get involved, and so that's what they're trying to point towards.
• 6:55
  Speaker 4: I've done I broadcast in an Apple game. I've done
• 6:58
  Speaker 4: a couple of games on these app apps and stuff
• 7:00
  Speaker 4: like that. How do you think the audience is gonna
• 7:03
  Speaker 4: take this? And knowing that you know, you're eventually gonna
• 7:06
  Speaker 4: have to buy you know, Peacock and Netflix and all this,
• 7:09
  Speaker 4: do you see the audience numbers going down on these
• 7:12
  Speaker 4: or do you see this being okay? Stabilize that this
• 7:14
  Speaker 4: is like the new norm. I know NBC is in
• 7:16
  Speaker 4: the picture, that's you know, that's a regular viewing broadcast
• 7:19
  Speaker 4: and network. But how do you see you know, the
• 7:22
  Speaker 4: regular fan going to these apps all the time and
• 7:25
  Speaker 4: trying to get in there.
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: I would say that Baseball did better with their partners.
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: You know, most of us have Netflix, not everybody. They're
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: gonna be baseball fans, probably older who don't have Netflix,
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: who might want to watch Opening Day and maybe they
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: get it for the one game. Do they needn't? You
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: know you can turn it off after But a couple
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: of things that they still have very wrong. There's too
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: many partners. And the Apple deal never made much sense
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: to me, still doesn't because you're only putting four regular
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: season games for your team on Apple. So that's just
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: an inconvenience for people and noise. People. All due respect
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: Todd for doing those games, but when you're but yeah,
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: you need another service. Uh, and it's only four games,
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: and so there's as you know, one hundred and sixty
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: two so you can miss four. And I think the
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: issue is if you if you look at the Yankees,
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: for example, you have to have Yes, Amazon, Prime Video, Netflix.
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: I mean, I might stop now because I don't know
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: how long your show goes for, but you may not.
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: You may have to extend keep going to see all
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: the games. Now, it's not a birth right they have
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: to see every game, but people have become accustomed to
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: being able to see it. And this is something I
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: would say, and Baseball is aware of this. Manford's even
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: said it publicly, is that he has said this way.
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: Is how I say it is that if you make
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: it hard for people to watch games, they'll listen to
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: you and not watch, you know, eventually, not not all
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: of them. But if you those diard fans, you know,
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: they they they're gonna follow as much as they can.
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: But you're saying Apple game here and then you know,
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: Roku now they're out. But you know, Roku didn't make
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: much sense to me. For ten million dollars a year,
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: that deal is crazy to me. I mean, Roku's free
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: to watch, but most people don't think of Roku, don't
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: aren't watching things on Roku, especially your older fans, So
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: that deal made no sense. But yeah, too many partners
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: right now and too expensive, so they have to dwindle
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: that down in a couple of years.
• 9:25
  Speaker 3: Is there a streaming group that steps up at the
• 9:27
  Speaker 3: end of this, at the end of twenty eight or
• 9:29
  Speaker 3: is this or all these groups that are taking these
• 9:32
  Speaker 3: games on saying you know, what do we need to say?
• 9:36
  Speaker 3: What do are what are they looking for in this
• 9:38
  Speaker 3: next three years? That'll make them say, yeah, we want
• 9:42
  Speaker 3: to take it. We want to be the place for
• 9:44
  Speaker 3: major League Baseball. Or is that not? Is that not
• 9:47
  Speaker 3: Manfred's Manfred's full plan here. His full plan is just
• 9:51
  Speaker 3: get as much money as you possibly can, no matter
• 9:53
  Speaker 3: who that group is.
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: I think it's a combination. They have to get it
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: right this next time around. And by getting it right,
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: it means two things. Number One, you have to get
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: the money to pay the players, as you know, and
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: to to get your for the owners, for everybody involved
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: in baseball. They want as much money as possible. Number
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: two is you have to limit the amount of partners
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: that you have, make it easier to digest. They were
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: to column a couple of months ago. For the athletic
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: what I would do is Monday through Friday, it's all.
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: You can eat your digital package or your RSN every
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: game Monday through Fridays on that service. Saturday and Sunday,
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: you'd have some special games that you have, some exclusive
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: windows and then you know, you feel the dreams Ruman Derby,
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: you try to auction those off as well, and if
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: your team wasn't in that exclusive weekend game, you get
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: it on your digital package. So then people don't have
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: to think that much. It's very simple and I think
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: it could be successful, but they have to simplify what
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: what the doing here because a couple things. One hundred
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: and sixty two games is a lot. I think baseball
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: gets a bad rap in terms of their viewing. I've
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: said this forever. They should be saying. When somebody wants
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: to compare baseball to football, I would say, how many
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: billions of minutes have people? Do? People watch baseball during
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: the season as compared to football, And people who are
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: gonna support they'll say, well, there's only seventeen games that
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: under sixty two. Yeah, that's the point. If there are
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: only seventeen Yankee games, what would the ratings be. Now,
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: they might not be NFL ratings, but they'd be much
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: higher per game for those seventeen games. So baseball has tonnage.
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: They should use that to their advantage. But they also
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: have to create scarcity because that's the NFL's big advantage.
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: It's a great TV score and this fantasy there's betting
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: and it works, but it has scarcity. Even though they
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: keep putting games all over the place, it's still only
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: seventeen regular season games that makes every game important. When
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: you play one hundred and sixty two, you guys don't
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: bear any for the players. Every game is important. You're
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: trying to build to make playoffs. But in June June seventeenth,
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: if you're a fan, that game doesn't mean as much
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: as you know, late October of course, or even you know,
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: mid September.
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: Thank you, Yes, I make that point all the time.
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: I also think, Andrew, the NBA is a good comp
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: at times. Right there's at least more inventory. It's not
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: nearly as much, it's about half the games, but it's
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: a good comp because you also look at two leagues
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: that have had somewhat similar revenue numbers that they report.
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: So that that leads me into my question.
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: The line that you said in your column The Athletic
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: was that MLB might need some better advanced scouts looking
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: into the next deal. How do you compare the way
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: that they've looked at media in general versus a spot
• 12:42
  Speaker 2: like the NBA. I mean, I worked for MLB for
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: a time period, and I know now as someone who's
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: on YouTube every day among other platforms, like it's very
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: restrictive with highlights. We don't have to necessarily go there.
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: But just in general, what do you see since you
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: cover all of the sports, and the NBA's deal is
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: way bigger and their younger audience is way larger. I
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: think because of the way that they allow creators like
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: us to use their highlights.
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean the the idea in terms of their
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: attitude of you know, kind of keeping their content for themselves.
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: I can understand it in some regards to monetize it,
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: and not that other people monetize all of their things,
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: but you could do licensing deals, which a lot of
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: other leagues have done with you know, a million entities.
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: NFL has a lot of deals, and so does the
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: NBA and SODA's hockey with a lot of places where
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: they can show highlights, you know, and they have to
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: obviously there's a fee involved. I would say this, they
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: have not anticipated this moment. Well, now you can. It
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: is complicated, you know, the regional sports networks diminishing, I
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: do think was pretty predictable. Where we're going to a
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: digital world where a show like yours can reach basically
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: the whole globe, and so that's your audience. And you
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: know it used to be you know, all these things
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: are all about distribution. If you look at the history
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: of media, and this gets into sports, you know, go
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: way back when the old adage was never get in
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: a fight with someone who sells ink by the barrel.
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: Why was that because the owner of the newspaper back
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: before I'm talking nineteen hundred, he could have He could
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: say whatever you wanted in the newspaper and hopefully you
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: was I'm not getting into mainstream media sometimes not perfect
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: but gets a bad rap. But let's just go with
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: my analogy here. He could say whatever he wanted, you
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: couldn't respond. Now, I could go through the whole history
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: of it, but distribution is the most important thing, and
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: distributions not zero. Doesn't cause zero to distribute, but it's
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: pretty close to zero for you to reach your audience.
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: That you could be one day bigger than MLB network
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: is not something that's unfathomable. It's something that very well
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: could happen because you can reach people just as easily
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: as a can in some respects on YouTube, it's even
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: simpler for people. There's no fee for them to log
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: on and watch your show, and so I don't think
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: they anticipated the moment well. I think if you look
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: at what the NBA did. I thought they really did
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: well in terms of the partners they ended up with,
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: and this is the model that, you know, I think
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: it's different. I think MLB is looking at the NBA
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: is like, we'll just do what they did and more
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: national games. I think it's a little different personally. But
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: they did a great job. The NBA. They got seventy
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: six billion dollars for eleven years. They have three national
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: partners ESPN, Nbcpcock, and Amazon Prime Video. And I know
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: some people said it's kind, it's not. I don't think.
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: I think it's going to become second nature by next year.
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: That you know. The games are a Monday and Tuesday,
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: Peacock and NBC Wednesday, ESPN. I could go on, but
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: I think it'll become second nature in terms of the
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: national games. And I think there is something there that
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: they should follow baseball, but it's not exactly the same.
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: I think a NASH regular season basketball game going on
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: the assumption the stars are playing is a little bit
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: more of a draw than most games, not you know, featuring.
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: You know, I think there's two stars who stand out
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: or must watch TV and no Tani and Judge right now,
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: maybe others will develop, but and they're also on the
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: two teams that are the biggest draws, and so you
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: can't show them every time on national TV. But you know,
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: I think, like you look at the Netflix the other
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: Field of Dreams game. I again, I'm sure there's a
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: reasoning for it. I don't know it. But how again,
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: all due respect to the Twins, how are the Twins
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: in that Netflix game for Field of Dreams versus the Phillies.
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: I mean, the Phillies are fine, but if you're trying
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: to get Netflix involved, I mean, how many people are
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: gonna watch it? Yes, Field Dreams is cool, but they
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: already did it, and I just don't see how the Twins,
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: who may not even be very good by then. It
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: could be August and they're already out of it. Just
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: that's that's a weird decision to me.
• 17:00
  Speaker 3: But you would have you would have the Vikings and
• 17:02
  Speaker 3: the Eagles if there was a Field of Dreams football game, So.
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: Yes, to me, I think that's a difference though, because
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: the Twins and the Vikings are totally you know, different animals.
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: The Vikings, you know, they're not having their you know,
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: their quarterbacks not good whatever. They but it's a different
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: so I think when you look at the sport again,
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: this is just the reality of it. There's about six
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: teams that can play nationally. The other teams that again,
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: players and on those teams may not want to hear
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: it may not be fair, but they are about six
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: teams that should probably be on almost every time nationally.
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: The reason the Yankees and Red Sox are on Sunday
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: night so much they get a half a million more people.
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: I mean that people watch. People may say they don't
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: like it, they might not fair, YadA YadA. People watch.
• 17:48
  Speaker 3: That's why we need to promote shows that talk nationally
• 17:51
  Speaker 3: about baseball and hit all the teams and don't care
• 17:55
  Speaker 3: which team wins. But anyway, there was only a show
• 17:58
  Speaker 3: that was like rated and like you know, in the
• 18:01
  Speaker 3: foul territory region of the field and stuff like that.
• 18:04
  Speaker 3: We had a handsome guy named Todd Frazier that came on.
• 18:08
  Speaker 3: My question is actually a fan question for you, all right,
• 18:12
  Speaker 3: armand is amazing asked. Can we ask Andrew what happens
• 18:16
  Speaker 3: to the deal when the lockout happens next year? And
• 18:18
  Speaker 3: I want to add on to that, what happens to
• 18:21
  Speaker 3: the deal if there is a lockout for the next deal,
• 18:25
  Speaker 3: does that affect the TV ratings? So kind of a
• 18:28
  Speaker 3: two part there.
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: I mean, you guys, I'm sure covering this every day
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: in terms of labor and where we're going, But you
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: don't want to go in if they miss games, god forbid,
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: miss the season. I mean, that's going to hurt their
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: negotiating where they are. And the other thing is about
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: the Nationals just came back to like just another point
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: and I can get further into the question, but is
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: that it is better again? Do you want to talk
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: about all the teams, But at the moment, if a
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: Yankees died, that's better for baseball in terms of their
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: next deal because the ratings will be higher now. They
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: did well because the Blue Jays and Dodgers had a
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: great series, And the most important thing is going seven games.
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: They can get six or seven games, that's what the
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: networks really want. But the lockout potential is something that
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: is awful. Again, I don't know the language of these deals.
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: I presume they don't get paid if there's a lockout.
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: I don't think baseball is in position to say, you know,
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: sometimes the NFL has been able to say that we
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: still get paid even if the games still get played.
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: Obviously they get the games back when they're you know,
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: they extend the deal they get they get those games,
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: but they still pay them throughout. I'm pretty sure baseball
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: did not have that luxury in these deals to get
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: paid if there's no games, So yes, that would impact.
• 19:49
  Speaker 3: Now.
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: The other thing is about these deals that were just consummated.
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: People have to understand when they compare it to the
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: NBA recent deal or the NFL's recent deals. They were
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: selling their top shelf stuff the NBA finals, the Super Bowl,
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: Baseball was not. They were selling their second tier games
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: that are eight to twelve playoff games, which are big,
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: but not an LCS. You know, there's two LCS, is
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: not a World Series, and so it's not apples to
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: apples when you compare exactly where the NBA just landed
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: and then where the NFL got two one hundred and
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: ten billion plus a couple of years ago for eleven years.
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: Andrew good stuff. Really appreciate it. Like Kratz said, we
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: had to bring on someone smarter than him to be
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: able to explain all of this. You are definitely that guy,
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: Andrew Marsham dot com. He covers this on.
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: His podcast twice fel.
• 20:36
  Speaker 2: You can listen to that covering all sports, and then
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: there's more on this in the Athletic as well.
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: Andrew, good to see you.
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: Thanks for the time man, Yeah, thanks guys,