Latest / The Shed Organics Show / #46 | Landscape Gardening Success Strategies | Keith Edwards [K.E. Landscapes]

Transcript

#46 | Landscape Gardening Success Strategies | Keith Edwards [K.E. Landscapes] · The Shed Organics Show

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Hey everybody, welcome back to another episode of the Shared
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Organics show, My name is Jordan and today we are joined by the
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incredible Keith Edwards. Now Keith is a landscape
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consultant in Melbourne and is a bit of a legend in the game here
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in this country. He's developed a reputation for
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building some really thoughtful and creative spaces for people
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that not only have longevity and practicality in terms of being
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able to utilize the space now and into the future, but also
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having a little bit of a really people focused attitude towards
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it. Really enjoying the process of
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working with a client to build this space long term.
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Having it, as he, he points out in there some, somewhere that
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invites you out to be able to come out into the garden and
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explore what is around each corner.
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And I really like that sentiment.
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I really like the way that he phrases that.
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He also shares a very similar, I guess point of view in terms of
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how important our soil health is and shares some really practical
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and important tips on setting your soil up for success in a
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landscaping project. And how he approaches all of the
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different soil types, conditions, sunlight, water, all
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of these things to make sure that that soil is thriving from
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the get go. Now, I'm super grateful to Keith
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for coming on and sharing some of his expertise.
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I've been keen to pick his brain for a while.
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So without further ado, I'm sure you're going to enjoy this
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conversation. This is Keith Edwards from KE
1:34
Landscapes in Melbourne. If you had to, if you had to put
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into your words what the role of a landscaping consultant is in
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terms of consulting for clients and trying to get the best
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outcome, balancing what you know in your knowledge versus what
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the client wants, can you talk me through the role of a
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landscape consultant in your eyes?
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Yeah. Well, I've been doing this for a
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very, very long time, as you well know, Jordan, And I guess
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the, the, the biggest thing that I asked from all my clients is
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to provide me with a concise brief.
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And that concise brief can take in lots of different forms.
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A lot of people love to just put in Pinterest and therefore take
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pictures and shots that, you know, they find inspiring for,
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for their own particular gardens.
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But I also like to, once I've I've read that is to sit down
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with them and actually go through them and, and just
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confirm what aspect of that particular picture did they
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particularly like? Because it might, it might be
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just something very, very small in that, in that overall picture
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that takes their fancy. It might be a little water
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feature somewhere rather than the whole overblown thing.
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And then I, I, I will explain why I, I'm, I'm taking the brief
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and, and what I'm trying to achieve.
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And that is to provide the best possible outcome design wise
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for, for, for, for them and, and other things that you ask them
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to provide is things that they see that garden requiring in the
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future. So, you know, if, if, if a
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budget doesn't allow to put a pool or a tennis court or or
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something else at that particular stage, those are the
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sorts of things that I need in order to work the whole thing
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out as a, as a complete concept that makes sense.
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Yes, definitely because you're thinking long term and if you've
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got something that is going to be put in in the future, then
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you don't want to be building something that's, you know,
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difficult to move or you have to move at all really.
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So when you're you're talking about these plans with them, how
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much of it is like structural related in your work, in your
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particular line of work, things like patios, you know,
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extensions, garden sheds, these. Types of things.
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Playgrounds. Exactly, Yes, yes, yes.
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How much of it is that? And then the plant side of it as
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well, the gardens and those types of things.
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What sort of balance are you doing?
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Right. Well, the, the first thing that
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that you would, you would design or you would put as
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consideration of your design are those hard structures, you know,
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whether they want paved areas, whether they want a fire pit,
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whether they want seating, whether they want a playground
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for the children. And that's probably one that is
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a really critical question to, to, to ask clients because
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there's no point in putting a, a, a playground way down the
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back corner of the property that's going to be hidden,
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hidden with vegetation. Because if you can't see a child
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fall off a bloody swing or something, you know, you're
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absolutely. So, so I design playgrounds, for
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instance, around the area that is most visible from the house.
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And that generally, believe it or not, and, and that I don't
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want to put this in any dismissive way, it's generally
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the kitchen. Yeah, you know, that's, that's
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where, you know, mum might be cooking or washing or doing
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something. So that is a great place in
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order to, to put the, the, the kiddie, the kids playground
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areas, you know, so it can be easily seen, you know, and you
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know, so it's all those sorts of things that you need to sort of
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put down first. Planting comes later.
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That and, and that that is also has to be a reflection upon what
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they require from their garden. You know, whether they want
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vegetable beds, whether they want fruit trees, whether they
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want a perennial garden or, or a, or a, a, an edible garden,
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whatever else, these sorts of things that that become the,
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the, the key constructs of their design.
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It's not my design. It's not me influence
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influencing them. It is me asking the questions in
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order for them to get the best possible outcome for their
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garden. Yeah, that's very true.
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How much, though, do you find yourself having to reel in some
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of the ideas in terms of just bringing some sort of level of
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realism to it? What are you, what are your
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experiences with that? Well, a lot of those things get
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back to budgetary things, right? And to give you, to give you an
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idea, I, I've just finished the design where the, it's a, it's a
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granny flat. So the, the mother's moving in
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on the block. It's a, it's a blank canvas.
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They wanted a decking out at the front.
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They wanted various aspects, but it all gets back to a budgetary
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thing. So the actual size of the
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decking that I've designed has to come down in size in order
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to, to fulfil their, their budget requirements, right.
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You know, so that's a, a very, very big consideration.
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You know, paving for instance, is is another very expensive,
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you know, out out, out outlay that people have arbors.
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These sorts of things also play an awful big part in in what the
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plants are going to cost. And then if if, if the clients
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are wanting to have a a particular aspect of their
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garden showcase very, very quickly, then another
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consideration is the cost of plants.
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You know, if they, they want to get put advanced plants in or
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advanced trees in, you know, that's, that's a big budget
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requirement on their, their part as well.
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You know, so all these things go into play.
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But I guess the way that I look at this is I will provide them
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with the best possible design. And then that is, is a they can,
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they can back backstage and back pedal that.
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Yeah. And, and make it fit, you know,
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by, by perhaps not doing all the planting in one particular hit,
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but maybe doing, doing it in stages as they can afford it.
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But if the whole thing's laid out design wise, then you've got
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a point to start and a point to finish.
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And that's a critical thing. And then I'll, if, if the
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clients are going to be doing, doing that on, on, on that, you
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know, a planned basis of where to start and where to finish.
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I always say, well, listen, start at the back because you
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don't want to be trapped traipsing over the stuff you've
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done in between hand and destroying all that.
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So start at the back and work your way to the front or have a
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have a plan so that you've got a, a, a way that you can attack
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that you know. Yeah, very clever.
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I didn't wouldn't have even thought of that.
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Apart from then budget requirements, like obviously
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budget would be a big one because most people would come
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in with not much idea as to how much these things cost.
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But aside from budget, say budget was covered, then we've
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got people that might have wants and needs for things that just
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aren't going to work in that particular space.
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Whether it's the selection of plants, whether you're, you want
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a cactus garden in somewhere that's really soggy ground or
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you know, something along those lines.
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How much of that are you having to challenge?
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Because obviously it's their idea and you're trying to
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facilitate as much as possible. But if you know that putting a
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plant in and having it in that situation is going to cause it
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to die or it's just going to fail in that spot, how how much
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of that are you offering to the client to help them in that
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regard? If, if, if, if they're wanting
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a, a, a succulent garden in a, in a bog hole, then I would
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simply tell them go and get themselves another, another
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designer, because it ain't going to work unless they put in, in
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those, those requirements that are going to satisfy those
9:41
conditions. And that might, may be to build
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up that area. It may be to use a, a, a free
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draining sand to build it up. It may mean that you've got to
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put in cut off drains to, to isolate that particular patch
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and then it can work. You know, so there's, there's
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those sorts of things that you've got to explain and
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explain in a, in a manner that the, that the clients understand
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and cost outlays. One big one where you say that,
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look, you know you're not going to achieve it if you don't do
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these particular things, you don't put these practices in
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place, they're not going to work.
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Yeah, that's right. And I presume that you know,
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your knowledge base that comes in into this is really helpful
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because then you can say to the client, look, I've seen this
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before or whatever it is. And if you really want it, these
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are the steps that we're going to have to come in and it's
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probably going to be a little bit more expensive or to to
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divert things or it's just you're working against the flow
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of the natural land and things like that.
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I imagine as well, like having some sort of observation of the
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space in different times of year or under different weather
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conditions, or getting an idea of the sun, the amount of
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exposure, the wind, the the shade, all of this type of
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thing. What's what sort of time frame
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are you getting to observe the property?
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And how much of that are you taking from the client
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initially? Well, well, you, you're asking
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questions all the time when you go onto a site, you're asking
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the clients and, and you're looking, you know, I mean, like,
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but everyone's got a mobile phone that's got a, a compass
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app on it. So, and, and there's also
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another app that I use that shows me the, the shadows as
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the, as the, the winter comes in and as the summer comes in.
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So you, you, you know, I've got a lot of that information
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already based on there. Another thing that, that with,
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with some clients that I will ask is to get the sites of aid
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so that I know where the contours are.
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I know which way that, that the land is flowing and then I can
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build and work on things on that particular basis.
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You know, a lot of my clients, I, I just asked that question.
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Look, you know, can we please organise a, a survey plan?
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And once I've got that, everything is plotted
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accordingly. I've got all the levels sorted
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out. I know what the finished house
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level flooring is. I know where the decking is
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going to work out. I know where, you know, I've
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said all those things are all worked out.
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It's and it's a case of of of of knowing what you've got to work
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at work and work with. Yeah, well, exactly right.
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And it's kind of taking a bit of a scope as to, yeah, what are my
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options here? What what have we got here?
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What's the land trying to do and tell us and all of these types
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of things and then build in that it's a lot of problem solving I
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imagine is is there, what are some of the maybe common
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problems that you're trying to solve regularly like that you
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come up against apart from, you know, obviously we spoke about
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budget in the planning and things, but in terms of the
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actual implementation on the land, what are some of the
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problems that come up commonly? Well, well, if we, if we use a,
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a, a current job that's just been completed, for instance,
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this is a, a development in a subdivision on a, on a sloping
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block of land where there is no legal point of discharge for
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storm water. Oh, and that, that, and I know
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that sounds absolutely crazy, but this is the way that things
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were done, you know, 50-60 years ago.
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So in this particular job, the people on the high side of my
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clients are shedding water through open, open pipes of the
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housing, the roof. They're collecting as much as
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they can into into tanks and so forth, but the the water is
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traversing all the way down and running into the property at the
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back, right. So the, the only way that we can
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manage that was to select a particular type of mulch that
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was going to allow the water to wash through.
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But it slowed that water movement down.
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Yeah. To have the best possible soils
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that would that are high in carbon that will absorb a lot of
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moisture. And then let, let that water
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just traverse very, very slowly down to the to the very back
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perimeter where we put a Swale drain all the way across.
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And then we put in in a big pond at the very, very lowest point.
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So the, the, the water went down the block, hit the Swale drain
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and then slowly moved across to the pond area.
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We had an enormous amount of planting put in around that
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pond. So there was a lot of water
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absorption and, and, and lots of routes and so forth that will
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help you know that that reticulation of that water going
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through it. So you've got to think outside
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the square when you're, when you're dealing with things like
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that, you've got to make sure that you've put management into
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your designs that actually cater for all those possible outcomes,
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you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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And especially in a country where we do see crazy amounts of
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rain come down sometimes. And, and that is often a problem
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with you mentioned, like estates or the building, you know,
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fairly, I guess, cost effective housing on a large scale.
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There's quite a few that have gone here around in Brisbane
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that have all of these sort of things.
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There was one whole area that was put in with, you know,
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hundreds of houses and they didn't put sewage in beforehand.
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So they were literally coming in and pumping, getting a company
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to come and pump and take away the sewerage the whole time.
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These types of things to me, like you said, seem a little bit
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crazy. But like a lot of these
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properties are not set up. The soil is not right, like the
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the way that it's built and the contour of the land is not
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thought about in these instances.
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And quite often they're clearing so much of the vegetation there
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to build these houses. So there's nothing to soak up
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all of that water. Is that something you're seeing
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commonly in in certain houses versus ones that probably have a
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little bit more land or have a little bit more thought in terms
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of that? No, not necessarily.
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I mean, I mean, you've got, you've got to remember what sort
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of soils we've got here in Australia.
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We, we have got the oldest soils in the world.
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Yeah. You know, we, we, we were part
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of Gondwana land when we moved away.
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We've had no new volcanic activity or anything else.
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Our soils are incredibly depleted of goodness in them.
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So every single site that I go on to, I have AI have a set of
16:13
specifications with what which layout exactly what has to
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happen to the soils in order to give the best performance for
16:20
the plants that we're going to be putting in brilliant.
16:23
So for instance, we trying to find good organic compost is a
16:29
hell of a job. You've got a, you've got a few
16:32
places up in Brisbane that I've actually mentioned to my to my
16:36
followers up up in there that a very, very good compost in a
16:42
rocky point, I think is, is 1. They have a fabulous range of,
16:46
of composted soil. So I will recommend them.
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But down here in Vic, what I'm finding the biggest problem is,
16:53
is that we're having these green bins that everyone has in their
16:57
properties except me. That, that they load all their,
17:02
their rubbish in their green rubbish.
17:04
And that is then goes off to A to a company that is then
17:08
utilising that to turn that into a compost.
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But when that when that product goes into say a garden supplies,
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it is not a compost and it is not a good soil because it has
17:23
aph sometimes of over 9. Yes, yeah.
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Right now you can't grow anything successfully in a, in
17:29
a, in a composted soil that is over 9.
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So down here, right, we, we have a, a fabulous relationship with
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a, with a company called Clyde Compost.
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And I've worked with Vince now for probably 10-15 years
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beautiful. And he produces a quality pop
17:46
compost that is every single batch has the batch number that
17:51
has been tested. And on the back of every single
17:54
bag there is the pH. And I picked up a bag yesterday
17:58
to put into my vegetable garden and it had pH on the back was
18:01
that was 7 point O seven. Yeah.
18:04
OK. And it rates all the, the, the
18:06
NPK and all the trace elements, they're all, they're all
18:09
monitored. Now that costs him a lot of
18:10
money to have to have egg, egg path, look at those, those soils
18:16
and then do all the tests on it. That costs him a lot of money.
18:19
Yeah, but you know, he's now into Bunnings down here in
18:22
Melbourne. Yeah, which is fabulous for him,
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but he's selling a quality product.
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Now we get back to these rotten, horrible old soils that we've
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got here here in Australia. So with my designs that I do
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here in Melbourne, they are specified with Clyde Compost
18:42
added to the soil at a placement depth of 75 mil.
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Great. All right.
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Now that also has a 30% additive of a product called lignite
18:54
humate. All right, now, lignite humate
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is is just another word from dirty brown coal.
19:01
So it's, yeah, it's like what? A humic, Humic acid or humate.
19:04
Humate. No, no, no.
19:05
It's brown coal. So.
19:07
So it is the. Original brown coal.
19:09
Original brown coal. It is full of moisture.
19:12
It is. It only contains 20% carbon.
19:16
Yeah, but the other 80% is humate.
19:18
Humate is the building blocks of light, the building blocks that
19:20
you see in rainforests. Absolutely.
19:23
Is all right, so that is mixed into his compost and that is
19:25
then applied to at a depth of 75 mil and incorporated
19:29
mechanically into the soil to a depth of 200 mil.
19:33
Wow. OK, All right.
19:34
So that's what we're putting in. And then another part of the
19:38
specification will say that every single plant that is put
19:41
into the ground, when the hole is dug before the plant goes in,
19:45
there is a teaspoon of micro gold, which is which is made by
19:51
a company up in in Queensland called Bio Stim all right.
19:55
That is put into the bottom of every one of these holes.
19:58
The plant is put in, the soil is put around, and then it's
20:01
watered in. Beautiful All right so that,
20:04
that Myco gold being a fungus fungal, fungal spores, 4
20:08
different types of of fungi. So you've got endo and
20:11
ectomycorrhizal fungi, you've got Bacillus and Trichoderm,
20:15
Trichoderm, and then you've got all the different ranges of
20:18
those particular fungal species. And that some of those are going
20:25
to have a relationship with the, the root system of those plants.
20:28
It's going to then take from the, the plants the two sugars
20:32
that are created in photosynthesis, so supras and
20:34
fructose and grow a root system that will increase that plant's
20:38
capacity by 600%. And then on top of that, the,
20:44
the, the, there is another product that we put in called
20:47
Manash. And then this is a rock dust and
20:51
it is the only rock dusting in Australia that that contains 3
20:55
different types of rocks. So you've got up to 60 trace
20:58
elements and minerals that are going back into the soil to feed
21:01
the plants, to feed the soil, to feed the microbes, to feed life.
21:06
And everyone, every one of those jobs that I do, you go back in
21:10
six months time, mate. And the grace in those is
21:13
incredible. So this is all part of the
21:15
specification specifications that I put in my jobs.
21:19
Keith, you're speaking my language that all of that sounds
21:23
absolutely incredible. The focus on the soil was
21:26
actually a question that I wanted to jump into at some
21:28
stage during this, but you've nailed everything that I would
21:31
wanted to add. There's a few things that you
21:35
touched on that I just want to click on through that.
21:38
The first thing was obviously those the, the green bin, the
21:41
composting, the, the way that you choose a certain compost.
21:46
I use red soil organics up in gimpy.
21:49
They've got an absolutely incredible compost up here and
21:53
just full of humus. Like it's just black and sticky
21:55
and delicious. And you're right, so many people
21:59
just throw stuff in the green bin.
22:01
It's then basically sold back to us as a very sterilized and an
22:05
extremely alkaline mix, which is just terrible.
22:08
And, and you're right, it, it discourages a lot of gardeners
22:11
that are getting in that they think, Oh yes, I'll go and get
22:13
some compost. You go get a bag of compost and
22:15
then nothing grows. You kind of very disheartened
22:19
and it's not understanding that the soil life itself, the actual
22:23
soil food web, the the whole interplay of everything
22:27
underneath the soil is what gives that soil itself its
22:31
vitality. And then therefore the plants
22:33
and everything as well, water retention, the list goes on.
22:36
So that was the first one. Then you mentioned obviously
22:40
that you do mycorrhizal Fungotrachoderma bacillus,
22:45
incredible inoculant to put straight into that root zone,
22:48
straight on the roots. I do that every single time.
22:50
Same with seeds. And then you also mentioned the
22:53
rock dust, a huge important missing point in a lot of soils.
22:58
Yep. So are you.
23:01
So just to clarify, you're doing this, that's a, that's a a
23:04
standard procedure for you for every single garden that you're
23:08
putting in 200 mil worked in, same thing for everything.
23:12
Every single job, you know so, so when you think about a a raw
23:16
site that you're working on, there is not a lot of not a lot
23:20
of of of flora and fauna in that soil.
23:24
So you're not destroying anything by by by mixing these
23:28
things in In fact, you're up you are just setting yourself up for
23:30
enormous amounts of success. Yeah.
23:33
So that's why I put them in. So every one of my
23:35
specifications on every one of my designs has, has got all
23:38
those components worked in. Whether I'm, whether I'm, I'm
23:41
dealing with a client here in Melbourne or I'm dealing with a
23:44
client in Pennsylvania, all these things are worked out and
23:47
they're all part of the specifications that are on my
23:51
designs. Yeah, you're right.
23:52
Because like I'm a big fan of what I would call no till or
23:57
minimal till. But there is certainly a point
24:00
where turning the soil to begin with, like you say, if there's
24:03
actually nothing in there and it's a pretty devoid soil, just
24:07
layering organic matter on top and trying to get things
24:09
growing. And it is going to really take a
24:12
long time before all of that's penetrated right down to those
24:15
to those depths. So turning it over at that
24:18
instance is actually quite, quite helpful.
24:21
Do you do you then try and just do a a no till approach sort of
24:26
after that and just layering compost etcetera?
24:29
Well, I guess probably the best way to explain that is, is with
24:32
my own garden. Cool.
24:33
Yeah. All right, so I've, I've got 180
24:36
square meter backyard, not huge, no.
24:39
But in that backyard I've got, I've got over 70 fruit trees.
24:42
Wow, wow. I've got, I've got 320 linear
24:45
meters of hedging, which is about one point 1.6 meters high.
24:51
And then in the in in between that, which is it's a circular
24:55
hedge. And then in that circular hedge,
24:57
in that in that circular area is a lawn of Kaikuyu.
25:02
And sitting on top of that of that lawn are 8 raised vegetable
25:06
beds. OK, SO33 triangular beds and and
25:10
and five rectangular beds 1.2 by two point 2.4 by 450 high, which
25:17
is the height of a chair. Yes.
25:19
Now I have another section of the garden bed in the in the
25:23
ground, which is just for growing additional food plants,
25:30
not outside of the raised beds. Yeah, Now I treat that area
25:34
totally different to the way that I treat my my raised beds.
25:38
OK. And the reason for that is that
25:41
if you think about, if you think about an organic farmer who is
25:45
growing, going to grow organic vegetables, they are striving to
25:49
have in their soil 5% organic matter.
25:53
All right. I, my, my raised beds have been
25:55
tested. My raised beds have 35% organic
26:00
matter through them. Wow.
26:02
So the way that those beds are treated is the, the, the mulch
26:07
on the top is, is who flung dung from Neutrog?
26:11
And that's the final layer. So when I, I take a crop out, I,
26:15
I would, I would put a sheet of plastic over half of the of the
26:18
top of the bed. And I take the Hoo flung dung
26:21
and put it on top of the on top of the, the sheet.
26:24
And then I dig out 100 mil of soil, composted soil.
26:29
And I put that on, on the fruit trees.
26:32
I then put back into that bags of Clyde compost lignite hue
26:38
mate. And then I put the mulch back
26:40
over the top. And then I had another layer on
26:42
top of that of the Hoo flung dung.
26:44
OK, all right. And then I add Manash rock dust
26:50
to the top of that. And then I inoculate the whole
26:53
lot with Neutrog Go Go juice. So therefore I am feeding the
26:58
microbes in the soil that then feed the worms and, and in those
27:02
beds, we don't have earthworms in those beds, those raised
27:05
beds. We have compost worms in those
27:08
beds. Yeah.
27:09
So I and, and those beds will thick the, the current one I've
27:13
just planted tomatoes in down here 2 days ago.
27:17
Those beds sat for four weeks before anything, before anything
27:22
was planted into it. Yeah.
27:24
When, when I, when I first put the, the rock dust down, I had
27:29
the last who owns Monash Beck come down and have a look and we
27:33
pulled the soil back. There was no worm life.
27:36
Now the, the, the, the, the statement used to be there's no
27:41
worm life, there's no soil life. All right.
27:44
So by doing what I've done out of the rock dust, populated it
27:48
with Gogo juice. 2 weeks later you pull that back and it is
27:52
just teeming with little tiny composting worms.
27:56
It is just a living, living basis now resting that for for
28:00
four weeks before planting. Just set yourself up for
28:03
enormous amounts of success. Now the difference between the
28:08
other bed, the ground bed, is that I, I initially put enormous
28:13
amounts of compost into that, dug it all the way through at
28:16
the lignite hue mate. I put biochar in it because it
28:19
was a very draining sort of an area.
28:21
So I'm locking in lots and lots of comp of carbon into that
28:25
soil. Yeah.
28:26
So that when you walk on that soil, now when it's wet, that
28:31
soil sticks to the bottom of your feet.
28:33
So it is flocculated. Yes, it is so chock a block full
28:36
of carbon that it's not going to wash away, it's not going to
28:39
blow away. It is just chock a block full of
28:41
goodness. Now when I rotate a crop in it,
28:46
I do not dig that soil. I broad fork it and add compost
28:50
from the top and get it deep down.
28:52
So I've got I've got a broad fork that goes down 300 mil into
28:55
that soil. Yeah.
28:56
OK. And the, the compost and
28:58
everything else in the air, everything.
29:00
And if you saw that saw today, it is chock a block full of
29:02
worms, earthworms, beautiful, you know.
29:05
So it's a growing medium, so so the two beds are handled totally
29:09
different. That's very interesting mate.
29:12
Just going back. Hey guys, really quickly jumping
29:14
in. I just want to remind you if you
29:16
are not subscribed to this show, that is the number one thing
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that you can do to show me your support.
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So if you're finding value from this conversation and you're
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deeply engaged, I would love you to hit the follow or subscribe
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button. All right, back to the show, to
29:29
your raised bed and pulling the soil out.
29:31
Just can you clarify what the thinking is behind why you would
29:35
pull that out? Is it because it's, it's sort of
29:38
being used in terms of nutrients and you're trying to just
29:40
replenish it and and and yeah, and.
29:43
What, what, what I'm, what I'm trying to do there is to ensure
29:46
that there is no pathogens in that soil that are going to have
29:49
an effect on on the next plot that's coming through.
29:51
I would rather if there's any, any parasites or any pathogens
29:55
that are going to be negative that soil, they can go out in,
29:58
in, in and around the fruit trees.
30:00
And that that's a fine thing. So what I'm putting back in
30:03
actual fact is, is compost that is is mixed in with the deepest
30:10
soil. So I'm only taking out 100 mil,
30:12
but I'm using the deepest soil down there, once again, using
30:15
the broad fork to get in as deep as I can, and then then mixing
30:19
all that that lot up together. OK.
30:21
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And then as you say, when you
30:24
adding these amendments and things like that, you have to
30:27
give it that time to sit because it can get a little bit hot.
30:29
Planting straight into there can just to, you know, sizzle some
30:33
roots and, and the the all little delicate high Fey and
30:36
everything that are in there from, from the fungus and stuff.
30:38
So that's really, really interesting.
30:40
So then when you're bringing that sort of thinking to a
30:45
client for someone growing food crops, flowers, things like
30:52
this, a general garden takes a bit of maintenance and takes a
30:56
bit of time and effort. So are you trying to adapt and
31:02
sort of shift the the methods based on the client, how much
31:07
time they have, how integrated their gardens are and their
31:10
their goals and time availability, things like that?
31:13
Yes, I am. And and that all gets back to
31:15
part of the brief. I mean, if you can imagine when
31:18
you're putting in a perennial garden, there is a fair, fair
31:21
amount of work at the end of that particular season and
31:24
you've got to know and understand that.
31:26
So, and, and then I have other clients who, who want low
31:30
maintenance, minimal amount of work that they've got to do.
31:33
So therefore you select the plants that fit that format of
31:36
what they require. So there's not a lot of
31:38
maintenance involved. You know, I've, I've, I've seen
31:42
lots of designers that love to put in all these bald plants and
31:45
everything else, you know, different shapes, different
31:47
coloured bald, it's all maintenance.
31:49
You know, it's all things you've got to go back and attend to.
31:52
But I, I say to my clients right from the start, if you are not
31:55
prepared to follow my instructions about setting your
31:58
soil up for success, then please choose someone else.
32:02
Yeah. But I go in there and I explain
32:04
the whole thing in, in the, in the same manner that you, you
32:07
know, I've sort of, yeah, said to you today, this is what we
32:10
need to do. If you're going to be investing
32:13
in your garden, you've got to invest in your soil first
32:16
because that's where it all comes from.
32:18
That's the basis of success in a garden and, and it's there.
32:23
And I mean, you know, I've, I've, I've gone round gardens
32:25
that I designed, you know, 2530 years ago and, and they still
32:29
look as good today. That's as, as they did, you
32:32
know, not long after they were completed.
32:35
Another big thing that I that I'm using in a lot of my designs
32:38
now is I'm using what's called Griddic sand, which is which is
32:41
otherwise known as crusher dust. Mm hmm.
32:44
Yeah. And this is a, a, a, a, a, a, a
32:46
granite that's been that where they've quarried it.
32:49
They've got the fine, the very, very fine stuff down the bottom.
32:52
So when it's put out on, on the, on a soil that has all these
32:56
amendments in it, there's it the, the, the client's got
33:00
nothing to do. They don't have to replace that
33:03
in five years time, 10 years, 20 years time, it's still going to
33:06
be there and everything will go through that soil.
33:09
I threw that, the Granetti sand washed down to where the roots
33:12
are, so they've been 20 years time.
33:14
The only thing that might need to be done is a little bit of
33:16
supplementary liquid feeding and that's it.
33:19
Yeah, that's that sort of stuff, that crusher dust, so cheap,
33:25
such a great input. And you know, we've got some
33:28
really good sources of it in in Australia here in excellent form
33:32
of silica, you know, a great form of phosphorus, long, long,
33:36
slow release, I guess if you've got the right life in there that
33:38
can solubilize a lot of the phosphorus, that sort of thing.
33:44
We've also seen with like a bit of this new term paramagnetic or
33:49
paramagnetism, a little bit of charge.
33:52
I think you can also you can check these things as to where
33:54
your source is coming from into how much that's in there.
33:57
But it seems to really do a lot to to benefit the plants and
34:00
things like this. Absolutely.
34:03
Sorry, just to just to kind of bring it back to the client and
34:07
and explaining about the soil health and the plant selection
34:10
and things like this. So if you've got somebody that's
34:13
a really low maintenance garden, they don't have a lot of time
34:17
and these types of things, are you setting the soil up
34:20
differently? Are you coming back and doing
34:22
stuff for them? Are you telling them what to do
34:26
or just organizing, you know, a compost or a fertilization every
34:29
now and then? Because you know, in my
34:31
experience, some people just won't do anything.
34:34
They'll they'll leave it. Yeah, so.
34:37
What are we doing there? We got, I'm fortunate enough
34:40
that that every one of my clients I love beautiful, you
34:44
know, and, and when I do a design for them, they're part of
34:47
my family. I, you know, I pour my guts into
34:49
their designs. I love that.
34:50
And I like, you know, I just love being passionate about what
34:55
I'm creating for them. And they know that, that they
34:58
can send me an e-mail anytime they like or they can get my
35:02
phone and give me a call and say, keep, listen, this
35:04
particular plant's not doing what it should be doing.
35:07
What what's going on. And I'm, I'm here for, you know,
35:09
I'm here from, for as long as I'm walking this earth and, you
35:12
know, and I haven't lost total lost in the marbles, you know,
35:16
and that's, and that's what I love to do.
35:18
It's, and it comes from passion. It's all about passion and the
35:22
passion is is explaining to people just where it all starts,
35:27
you know, and that's with the soil.
35:29
That is really cool. And you would see you'd, you'd
35:33
get a lot out of seeing these gardens long term.
35:37
So can you tell me about your experience in visiting some of
35:41
these gardens again that you you explained about earlier,
35:43
sometimes 20 years later, what's, what are some of the
35:47
highlights of some of the things that you've seen or some of the
35:51
possibly like notable problems that have helped you change your
35:54
mind on a few things or anything like that?
35:58
Yeah, look, there's, there's, there's lots of things that you
36:00
learn along along the track and, and you know, I'm learning every
36:03
single day still. I'm, I'm, I, I and, and that's
36:05
what I love about this industry is, is you always got something
36:08
to learn. So there's lots of things that
36:10
that have changed back from when I first started.
36:13
And to give you an idea, I, I was involved in the turf
36:19
industry for a bit after I, when I first finished school, I
36:23
actually became a curator of a private girls school.
36:26
We had 28 acres of, of land and I and I worked, worked with that
36:30
for, for seven years and I had a staff of seven.
36:33
We put in a huge Olympic Oval and all that sort of stuff.
36:39
When I, when I had had enough of that, I went and was asked to,
36:43
to work with, as a consultant to the, the turf research industry.
36:47
So I worked with them for a period of time.
36:49
So I learnt an awful lot about how to manage things, how to
36:53
maintain things, being curated, being preventative, and then
36:57
learning about the turf industry.
36:59
So get just going, just going forward to where I started this
37:03
conversation about learning things, is that the turf type
37:06
that was around in that particular period, the main turf
37:10
type was the type called tall fescue.
37:13
OK, all right. Now I've been to some of the
37:17
jobs that I have designed over the years and the the lawns look
37:20
absolutely revolting, right? All right, they, they pull down
37:25
those jobs. And the reason for that is that
37:27
people don't understand turf types.
37:31
So tall fescue by by by description is a tall grass.
37:37
So therefore, when the grass is, is, is that high, it's going to
37:41
have a nice deep root system that is deep down into the soil
37:44
profile that is getting hot, getting access to the moisture
37:47
and everything else, correct. But when someone comes along and
37:50
might be the, you know, the, the mowing guy and he, he's looking
37:54
for another buck or doesn't really need a cut this week, but
37:56
I'll take a little bit off anyway.
37:58
So he reduces the height of the grass.
38:00
So the height of the grass reduces the depths of the root
38:04
system until it comes all the way up to the surface.
38:06
So that when you get the first hot day, the roots are exposed
38:10
to, to the heat and the grass dies and they get full, full of
38:14
winter grass and all weeds and all sorts of other crap.
38:18
So that is something that I, I have noticed and taken on board
38:23
most of my designs today down here in Melbourne are using
38:28
various types of cooch. Yeah, and, and one of the best
38:31
ones for down here is 1 called TIFF Tough, which is a, a
38:35
beautiful coloured coloured couch that is incredibly tough.
38:40
It it doesn't have reactions with people who have any
38:44
asthmatic problems or anything else.
38:46
It's a terrific grasp, you know, for, for that for kids and all
38:49
the rest of it. And it's very, very easy to
38:51
maintain, you know, so they're the sorts of things that you
38:54
learn on the way as part of your, your lifelong, you know,
38:58
journey through, through the, through the industry.
39:01
The other things that you, you, you, you look for in plants and,
39:05
and some of the jobs is the longevity of some of the plants
39:08
that you've you've put in there. You know, some plants, for
39:12
instance, perennial type plants, you're going to get five to
39:14
seven years out of you, you they're not.
39:17
And, and unless the people that are replacing it with the like,
39:20
for like you're getting a change in, in the whole way that that
39:24
garden works and reacts. Yes.
39:26
And the same thing applies to trees.
39:28
You know, there are, there are plants today that, that, that my
39:31
clients down here in, in Melbourne will say, and I've,
39:34
I've just finished one. The client said, I want to have
39:38
a eucalyptus kzii in that garden, which is the, the silver
39:42
Princess, the, the weeping, the weeping, which is the Western
39:45
Australian plant. So, so therefore in my designs,
39:50
what I've learnt now is that those plants have to be
39:54
specified as grafted so that they suit the conditions of the
39:58
soils we've got here as opposed to the soils in WA.
40:02
So they they're a grafted plant and the same thing applies to
40:06
the West Australian flowering gum.
40:08
It also is now a grafted plant. So you're seeing changes that
40:12
are happening within the industry along those particular
40:14
bases. You know, so you're learning as
40:17
things change, you know that you're learning where you know,
40:20
people have have now got a clue about the different, different
40:23
soil types that are available. You know, so these those things
40:26
that you know that that change as as the whole thing goes
40:29
along. That's clever.
40:31
I had not even thought about that sort of grafting technique
40:34
to to basically help it adapt to the.
40:38
The Local. Soil, yeah.
40:40
And because, you know, often I talk about when you're when
40:43
you're getting plants to try and get ones that are local or local
40:47
cuttings because they're more suited to the environment, to
40:49
the soil, all of these types of things rather than grown in a
40:54
controlled environment somewhere else in a different state and
40:57
then shipped over here. You know, you're going to put
40:59
that in the ground and it's just not going to do well.
41:02
Coming back to to lawn, actually really interestingly, I had this
41:08
wonderful guy who runs a channel on YouTube called the Backyard
41:11
Naturalist and his name's Darcy. And he did this really sort of,
41:14
he does a documentary style, but a little bit comical on on
41:19
lawns. And he was just sort of
41:22
highlighting how much lawn we have in the country, how many
41:27
people are using their space for lawn instead of for gardens and
41:33
things like this. To me, a lawn needs to be a
41:39
functional space. So for example, I've just put in
41:43
this, did some more turf, actually took out some gardens,
41:46
which is actually going against. What I like to do?
41:49
I took out some gardens and I put in some lawn at my parents
41:52
place because we've got a little 1 now and we're hoping to be
41:55
able to kick a ball around on there with him at some stage so
41:58
it becomes a very functional safe space.
42:02
Are you thinking about those types of things with lawn in
42:06
terms of having it as a functional area?
42:08
And then if someone if you've got a blank space, for example,
42:14
do you tend to put lawn there or do you tend to go for a wild
42:17
flowers? Do you tend to let it go wild or
42:19
a bit of a, you know, pollinate a friendly garden?
42:22
If you've got a bit of a spare space, how much of it is going
42:25
to lawn and how much of it are you trying to divert into other
42:28
things? Right.
42:29
Well, that, that all that all, all goes back right to the very
42:32
beginning of our conversation here.
42:34
And this is part of the client's brief.
42:36
True. Yes.
42:36
All right. Now I will ask my ask my
42:38
clients, you know, you've got kids, OK, We do we what sort of
42:43
what sort of needs do those children have for that those
42:47
particular spaces? Are you going to be kicking a
42:49
football round? Are you going to be playing
42:51
soccer? Are you to, you know, have
42:53
cricket or whatever else? So there's, there's things that,
42:56
that come back to that amount of grass that goes into that brief.
43:01
For instance, my, my middle boy has 22 boys, two young boys,
43:05
Lebanon, Lebanon 6. And, but they're way into soccer
43:11
now. So I designed their garden on
43:13
the basis of, of having a good space to to run and kick a ball
43:17
and, and have a set of Nets down the very, very bottom.
43:22
And the way that that was designed was to meet the space
43:26
that they had available. So therefore the the lawn, if,
43:30
if you can imagine an Oval shape is their lawn area, but the top
43:36
area is wider than the bottom area.
43:39
OK, alright. So so it comes down in, in a, in
43:42
a, in a, into a narrower, yeah, round rounded centre at the
43:46
bottom there. So they could put the goals down
43:48
there, but what that does to the eye is that that changes your
43:53
perspective of how much lawn there is.
43:56
It looks like the lawn is a lot deeper, a lot longer than it
44:00
actually is. So, so it takes the eye down to
44:03
this smaller circle where you're standing on a much larger circle
44:06
behind you. So they've got this method of
44:09
then that they can kick the ball down to the goal line, which is
44:13
their focal point, but they've got a big space up the top that
44:16
they can, you know, also utilize as as part of their running
44:19
around before they have the shot for gold.
44:21
That's not so, so it's, it's, it's, it's looking at spaces and
44:25
trying to maximize the client's requirements.
44:29
You know, that's how I look at it.
44:30
It's maximizing the client's requirements.
44:32
It always brings it sort of back to that, doesn't it?
44:35
That's really beautiful. That just some some nice ways of
44:38
being thoughtful about the space.
44:39
Like you said. The the other thing I was
44:43
thinking about before was you were talking about, you know,
44:48
certain trees that the grafted trees and things like this and,
44:51
and putting certain things in. Obviously when you put a tree in
44:55
or a fruit tree in or something like this, it begins very small.
44:59
So all of the other plants around it have lots of light.
45:03
They've got, you know, much more wind exposure, things like this.
45:06
When that tree grows up and provides a lot of shade
45:10
protection, it's going to change the ecosystem in the garden
45:14
underneath. So talking about succession and
45:19
thinking about the plant choice for 15 years down the track when
45:23
there's a a big tree, how much of that are you trying to
45:28
implement for a long term versus, you know, trying to just
45:33
use what's working and things like this?
45:35
Well, you, you, you set the whole job up on the on the basis
45:40
of what that's going to look like in full time.
45:43
Yeah. Now, for instance, every one of
45:46
my designs has got a whole, whole row of circles on them.
45:49
And those circles represent the plants, but they're not circles
45:52
just for the hell of drawing circles.
45:54
Those circles represent the the mature width of those plants.
45:59
Yeah. All right, so that's how that's
46:01
based on. So I've got the trees with a
46:03
with a bigger canopy and then the smaller plants that will
46:05
suit though underneath that canopy at the right sizes.
46:09
So the whole whole space will totally cover itself out.
46:13
Now, if you're, if you're putting in all those beautiful
46:16
soil amendments that I've that I've mentioned, you're not
46:19
waiting 15 years to get a, a, a full blown garden.
46:23
True, you might, you might be waiting 8 to 10, yeah, because
46:26
you've got all that goodness. You've set that garden up to be
46:28
that, that, that, that space that you want.
46:31
So everything is worked out on that basis, including, you know,
46:35
the, the, the, the parts of the garden that are going to be in
46:38
the southern aspect of, of, of the traverse of the sun.
46:43
So when, when in, in winter time, when the sun is dropping
46:46
down 35°, you've you've compensated for that with the
46:50
plaque selection that you put in there.
46:52
Yeah, it's all taken care of on the, at the design, at the
46:56
design, you know, table. That's where it's all based on.
46:58
Yeah, that's such to me, it's just like this.
47:02
It's somewhat wizardry, Keith, of bringing all of these these
47:06
factors together to try and get everything and everything's
47:08
going to be so different and so unique in each design because
47:12
it's the same principles a lot of the time.
47:14
But it's just, you know, adapting them all based on this,
47:18
the space that you've got in front of you.
47:21
Let's let's talk personally about design for you.
47:24
Do you prefer to have loads of space or small spaces when
47:29
working on something? Is it exciting to you to try and
47:33
work within a creative boundary or just to have endless options?
47:39
Look, I've, I've been lucky enough to have, have all, all
47:42
sorts, you know, from designing a full blown garden that, that
47:45
covers 10 acres, for instance, you know, so and involves lakes
47:50
and all sorts. So I've, I've had all that, but
47:54
some of the hardest gardens to actually work on a little
47:59
backyard gardens that are part parts of units.
48:02
Yeah. All right.
48:03
You, you've got to maximize the impact when people come into
48:06
that space to make it a wow factor, you know.
48:10
So you've got to, you've got to make sure that the, there's
48:12
enough space of paving to, to, you know, to, to satisfy
48:16
people's needs for sitting outside with a table and chairs
48:19
and all the rest of it. And then you've got to really
48:21
think about what you're doing around that, that walled
48:24
section, you know, where are you creating the interest and the
48:27
colour in that? And, and, and have you got space
48:30
to put in there to put a, to put a, a deciduous tree, for
48:33
instance, that's going to provide that summer shade, but
48:37
then going to lose its leaves to allow that that solar
48:39
opportunities to come back into that space in the winter time.
48:43
So it's not just, you know, a single use space.
48:46
So there's a lot of thought going to go into a small area,
48:49
you know, we're not talking, you know, 4 meters by 4 meters.
48:52
Yeah, there's a lot of planting that's got to go into that to
48:55
create that interest that's in that space.
48:58
And the same applies to 10 acres.
49:00
You know, you've got to, you've got to manage the whole job.
49:03
You've got to think about the maintenance that that's involved
49:06
with that. And, and just to give you an
49:08
idea, in those sorts of spaces, I don't put trees in lawns.
49:14
Yeah, because you've got to, you've got to go around it with
49:17
a lawn mower. You've got to go around it with
49:19
a brush cutter. You're going to ring back the
49:21
bloody, you know, you're going to destroy those trees.
49:24
So trees go in garden beds. If it if it's if it's in the
49:28
middle of a lawn, it's in a garden bed.
49:30
Yeah, there'll be garden beds all the way around.
49:33
And, and probably one of the most important factors that that
49:37
happens to me when I sit on my drawing board is I have a little
49:41
person sitting on my shoulder and, and her name is Edna
49:44
Walling, who was Australia's greatest female landscape
49:49
designer. Awesome.
49:51
So, so I studied Edna Walling and, and I, and I have lots of
49:56
little things that she says to me as as I'm sitting on my on my
49:59
drawing board, looking at the brief and then coming up with a
50:02
design. And one of the most important
50:04
things that she says to me is this a garden you can see all at
50:08
once is not much of A garden at all.
50:12
Wow. All right.
50:13
And the reason, the reason that that is so important is that
50:16
that if you walk out your backyard and regardless of what
50:19
size you've got, if you walk out that backyard and you can see
50:22
absolutely everything that's going on in that backyard, it's
50:25
not going to take you out. It's not going to say, say to
50:28
me, come out and see what's over behind this particular space
50:31
here. Come and see what's behind this
50:33
garden bed. See what's over here?
50:36
It doesn't take you on a journey unless you you've created these
50:40
particular garden rooms. And that's what I try so much to
50:43
do. I've done big gardens where,
50:47
where, where there's they've got children.
50:50
So you provide spaces with within those gardens that
50:53
haven't got physical boundaries, but have got a pathway that
50:58
wanders all the way through the, the garden beds and there'll be
51:00
little faces within those within that, that that garden where you
51:04
can sit and contemplate. You get away from mum, get away
51:08
from dad, you know, have a hissy fit, whatever else you know.
51:11
So it's everything, got to have a journey.
51:14
That's a that's such a profound thing.
51:18
I relate very much to having sort of that mental voice of
51:21
various people that, you know, fortunate chatting to a bunch of
51:25
people like yourself that are really, really knowledgeable.
51:27
And I get these little tidbits of things that that come through
51:30
in in the work that I do. But I really love that idea of
51:34
just being invited by the garden to go and figure out what's
51:38
going on and just to be to be taken through on that journey
51:44
with just returning to small spaces, that's obviously a lot
51:48
harder to do when you've got a 4 by 4 space that you're kind of
51:52
walking out and you're, you're in that space already.
51:56
There's a lot of other problems that come with small spaces and
51:59
one that's come up a lot because so many of us are in these
52:02
smaller living situations now increasingly is, is there
52:07
exposure to light the, the sunlight?
52:09
And if you're in high rises, you're in cities, you're in
52:11
apartments, you're in all sorts of different places, you're very
52:14
limited with light. And without necessarily turning
52:18
to supplemental light, is there anything that you try and do to
52:23
maximize the amount of sunlight or light exposure that you get
52:27
in these types of areas? Yeah.
52:29
Well, you have to, you know, because that's going to impact
52:31
on, on your plant selection. Yeah, huge thing, you know, but
52:35
there's certain plants that you can put into those environments
52:38
with low light that will still provide you with the with the
52:41
interest and the colour. Yeah, you know that that a
52:44
garden requires. And then of course, you know, in
52:47
these small spaces you have lots of other opportunities.
52:49
Now if we, if and I think back to this small little courtyard,
52:53
you know, you know, in a two-story apartment, it's got 4,
52:58
it's got 4 walls. It's got one wall, which is the,
53:01
which is the building itself. Then it's got the other three
53:04
walls which are, which are the boundaries.
53:06
Yeah. So you, so you've got all these,
53:08
all these hard lines. So, So what I did with this
53:11
particular job was to create green walls.
53:16
Yeah. All right.
53:17
And, and rather than, rather than just having straight green
53:20
walls where you, where you have, have a corner that that meets
53:23
like that, we used concrete reinforcing mesh with, with
53:28
treated pine uprights. And we curved the, we curved
53:32
the, the, the concrete reinforcing mesh around that
53:35
corner. So it gave you this circular
53:38
effect. And then we grew up, we grew up
53:41
a trachea sperm and which is the the Evergreen Jasmine up that
53:44
wall. And I love using that because
53:47
it's it's a climber that will perform from the ground all the
53:50
way up to the top. You don't get a lot of climbers
53:52
will go all the way up the top and you've just got it's sitting
53:55
on the top and it's all bare on the bottom, you know, so you can
53:58
create that sort of space. And then on the other walls, the
54:01
opportunity that are are going to be dependent upon, you know,
54:06
their, their North SE facing, but you have the opportunity on
54:11
some of these other walls to put Australian fruit trees and
54:13
plants like that on it, you know, so you're creating a lot
54:16
of interest as well and giving structure to a garden, which is
54:20
probably the most important thing that is in consideration.
54:24
Again, it's heading the walling on the on the, on the shoulder
54:26
again, saying to me, a garden must have structure.
54:30
Yeah, it's got to have some sort of structure in some way that
54:32
that that pulls the whole thing together.
54:35
That's really clever mate. Your thinking is so, so
54:39
beautiful. I just love all the nuanced ways
54:41
that you're thinking about these things.
54:44
A question I find myself asking a lot at the moment is, is like
54:47
what is top of mind for you at the moment in terms of what's
54:51
interesting you moving forward in this industry?
54:53
What's still exciting you? What sort of things are you, you
54:57
know, diving into head first at the moment that's really fresh
55:00
and exciting for you? Well, it's, it's not necessarily
55:05
new plant varieties or anything else that, that that's creating
55:08
my interest. It, it is my clients that are
55:10
creating the interest because I'm getting an awful lot of
55:13
young clients that now want to be involved with the gardens
55:17
that's edible, beautiful, beautiful.
55:19
They want to, they want to be able to get their children to go
55:21
out the backyard and pick beautiful homegrown fresh
55:26
produce that's free of chemicals and nasties and all the other
55:29
crap. And, and, and that is a, a huge
55:32
passion for me. That is something that I
55:33
particularly really love. My, I've got 2 grandkids that
55:38
live fairly close to us. And when they arrive with their
55:41
parents, they, they look at their mum and dad and they say
55:43
to them, why don't you stay here and talk to, to Nan and Pop
55:48
while we go and visit the garden And they go out the backyard and
55:50
they go on and, and you walk out there and they're just picking
55:53
broccoli or beans or tomatoes or fruit.
55:57
And that's just that's. Such a joy.
56:00
And, and that is the best possible thing that you can give
56:03
to a child. It's not bloody money and toys
56:06
and crap like that. It is an involvement with, with
56:09
nature, seeing where food comes from, seeing that it's seasonal,
56:13
seeing how, how, how, how much it tastes better.
56:17
You know, my, my, my grandson, one of the two grandson had a
56:21
competition picking beautiful carrots out of the out of the
56:25
ground and, and they, they took a whole heap home and, and they
56:29
were used over a few days. And, and the oldest one looked
56:33
up at his mother and while he was eating a carrot, he said,
56:36
this carrot's come from Pop's place, hasn't it?
56:38
Because it doesn't taste like the, the stuff that you normally
56:41
buy us, you know, and that sort of thing is just brilliant.
56:44
Yes. You know, he's getting he's
56:45
getting an understanding of of just how good home grown food is
56:50
so that that hopefully will instill in him it's that
56:53
opportunity if he gets it, to grow his own as well.
56:57
You know it's beautiful. It's absolutely beautiful.
57:00
I resonate with that a lot because that's a big part of my
57:03
mission, especially now having a, a young boy.
57:05
I just, I've, I had that with my grandmother, being able to go
57:08
and pick produce in her garden. And every time I visit back, go
57:13
back to that property. We went back recently and I can
57:15
just go and pick pears and apples off the tree.
57:17
It's just so joy filled and it's such a a straight path from good
57:23
healthy organic produce straight into me.
57:25
And it's it's that it just feels really authentic and true.
57:46
And there we have it, ladies and gentlemen, thank you again to
57:49
Keith. I highly recommend you go and
57:51
check out some of his links in the description or the show
57:54
notes below. You can go and follow along on
57:56
his Instagram. He always shares different tips
57:59
and tricks and little projects that he's working on.
58:02
So you can go and see what he has to offer there.
58:05
Now, if you enjoyed this conversation, as always, it is
58:08
super helpful to go and share this episode to leave a review.
58:12
Any thoughtful comments, some stars please, please.
58:16
That really does help spread the awareness to more people to come
58:20
and jump onto this show, get some value out of it, and
58:23
hopefully inspire more people to get their hands in the soil, get
58:26
dirty, and start growing something for themselves.
58:30
So that's the one thing that you can do to support me.
58:32
Otherwise, share the episode if you thought that Keith has some
58:36
wonderful knowledge to share and you think that someone would
58:38
find that knowledge helpful. And again, look, we've got
58:42
another exciting episode next week.
58:43
I'm not going to spoil it just yet, but we have another great
58:46
guest as well. So look forward to seeing you
58:48
then. And as always, take care and bye
58:50
for now.