Latest / Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families / Teaching Kids About Friendship

Transcript

Teaching Kids About Friendship · Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families

• 0:06
  Speaker 1: If you speak to anyone that works with children, any
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: school leader, any school teacher, any psychologist, anyone any parents
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: involved with kids, whether they're at kindergarten or reception or
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: preschool or big school or high school. And if you
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: ask them what the most common challenge is that they
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: confront when they're dealing with kids, the answer is almost
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: always the same. It's friendships. There was a study done
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: in the nineteen eighties that outlines six key concepts that
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: make friendships work. Today, we dig into that study, have
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: a look at those six key concepts that make friendships
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  Speaker 1: work and explore how we can help our kids have
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: better friendships. It's a doctor's desk episode of the Happy
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: Famili's podcast. Next, Hello, Welcome to the Happy Families podcast,
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: where you get real parenting solutions every single day. This
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: is Australia's most downloaded parenting podcast. Where Justin and Kylie
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: Colson were the parents have six daughters and Kylie. When
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: you think about the enriching elements of your life, people
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: are at the core of it all the time. But
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: how good is a great friendship? Like you think about
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: the people that matter most, and those friendships enrich and
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  Speaker 1: enlarge our lives in such magnificent ways.
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  Speaker 2: I was actually just reflecting about this the other day,
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: and I decided to do something about it. Because we've
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: moved so many times over our married life, I have
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  Speaker 2: friends all over the place, not necessarily in my backyard
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: or down the road. And as I was reflecting about
• 1:37
  Speaker 2: the women in my life who have had the most
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: profound impact on me through their friendship, I went through
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  Speaker 2: my photo role and I started pulling out photos and
• 1:47
  Speaker 2: printing them up, and I kind of created my wall
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  Speaker 2: of friendship. Yeah, in my closet.
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: As I was doing the introal, I was hoping going
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: to refer to that because we didn't set this up,
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: but every time I walk into our wardrobe, now see
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: this wall of all of your best friends, photos of
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: you and your best friends. I'm like, I feel a
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: bit weird looking at all of your best friends. Although,
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: but there's such great people, such great people. Today a
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: conversation about friendships, why our kids struggle so much, and
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: the six constitutional elements, the six things that researchers have
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: discovered make friendships work. And it's worth pointing out that
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: friendships are at the very heart of our well being
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: and our distress. We've removed a couple of kids from
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: school because of friendship challenges. That's the distressing part where
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: things aren't working. And then there's, of course the joy
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: that comes from good quality friendships. A friend of mine,
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: she's been on the podcast a couple of times, researcher
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: in Melbourne, Kelly Ann Allen, talks about school belonging. She's
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: found that school belonging that is how much you feel
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: like you belong to the people at school you've got
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: those friendships. It's a predictor of everything from grades to
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: life satisfaction. Even life satisfaction a decade after school has ended.
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: The amount of time that you felt like you belonged
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  Speaker 1: at school impacts ten years later after school, how much
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: life satisfaction you have. I think it's extraordinary. Whether it's
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: academic achievement or self concept, behavior thinking, they all improve
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: when kids feel like they belong.
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: So you've teased us, there's six things. What's number one?
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  Speaker 1: Okay? So from British psychologists, really influential social psychologist Michael
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: Argyle and Minica Henderson, his collaborator, did a series of
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: studies identified these six things. This is the first one.
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: Real friends are loyal, they stand up for their friend
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  Speaker 1: in their absence. Works is just such a powerful relationship builder,
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  Speaker 1: And we can teach this at any age, including for adults.
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: Like there's a lot of us who are over eighteen
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  Speaker 1: who struggle with that. If somebody's saying something that's not
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  Speaker 1: very nice about our friend, do we lean and say, really,
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  Speaker 1: I didn't know that about my friend, or do we
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  Speaker 1: say hang on a sec That's not the Kylie Coulson
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: that I know.
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  Speaker 2: As I've listened to our daughters over the last twenty
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  Speaker 2: years of one of the things that often comes up
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: for me is I just don't want to be that
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  Speaker 2: person's friend because they talk poorly about other people. Yeah,
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  Speaker 2: and I think that deep down for all of us,
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  Speaker 2: if somebody is willing to say something nasty about somebody
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  Speaker 2: else that's not in the room, what are they saying
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  Speaker 2: about me when I'm not in the room.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's the subconscious fear, isn't it. Yeah, if you
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  Speaker 1: talk about them, what would you say about me if
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  Speaker 1: I'm not there to defend myself.
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  Speaker 2: In my personal experience, it has been quite rare that
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  Speaker 2: I have found someone who has been willing to stand
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  Speaker 2: up for me personally when I haven't been in the
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  Speaker 2: room or.
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  Speaker 1: Anybody, and yet, oh my goodness, it's so powerful. Like
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  Speaker 1: if you're having a conversation with somebody and the conversation
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  Speaker 1: sort of turns a little bit south someone starts saying
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  Speaker 1: something negative about another person, when somebody is brave enough
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  Speaker 1: to say, oh, actually, I don't think that's fair. She
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: wasn't even there, or I don't think that's there. They're
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: not here to defend themselves. We don't really know the
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  Speaker 1: context here, but everything I know about them says that
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  Speaker 1: that's not their normal behavior. This signal that that sends
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  Speaker 1: as well, that puts everyone on alert. Oh Kylie is
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: the kind of person who will defend me, she'll stick
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: up for me. Like it's just such a I get
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: goosebumps talking about it. It's such a powerful way to
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  Speaker 1: say I'm a trustworthy, reliable friend. I'm somebody that you
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: can look to and know that I've got your back.
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: And it's different to the thing that you'll hear boys
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: talk about don't dog the boys, don't rid out your mates.
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  Speaker 1: It's not like that. It's just saying, unless you know
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: all the details, it's probably not appropriate to talk about
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: that because they're not here to defend themselves and everything
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: I know about them, they're just not the kind of
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: person that would do that. I don't think I'm going
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: to have to check with them and find out what
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  Speaker 1: they would say, because that just doesn't feel right. Powerful,
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: powerful idea.
• 5:43
  Speaker 2: That's number two.
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  Speaker 1: So the second idea that Argile and Henderson came up
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: with was this sharing important news with the friend. So
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: good friends keep each other in the loop. If your
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: child hears that a whole bunch of people are going
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: to go to the movies and someone's being left, then
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: they stand up for their friend. They encourage other people
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: to include them and to make sure that they include
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: them in things as well.
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: This is really powerful, this one, the idea that a
• 6:11
  Speaker 2: friend is inclusive.
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, but I just had a thought, as you said,
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: that good friends also know what not to share. Like
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: I remember there was a girl that I interviewed for
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: my Misconnection book. She talked about how she had just
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: gone to the bathroom. It was the end of lunch
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: break at school, and as she was leaving the bathroom,
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  Speaker 1: one of the girls from her friendship group walked into
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  Speaker 1: the bathroom and sawry and goes, oh hey, and called
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: her by name. I can't remember her name now, but
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: she said, oh, hey, we were just talking about you,
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: and we've decided that you're the judgest person in our group.
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: So number one, no loyalty because everyone's talking about you.
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  Speaker 1: But number two, all the girls are sitting around judging
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  Speaker 1: whose judges, and they choose to judge the person who's
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: not there as the judges. And then this girl goes
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: and says, I thought i'd let you know you're the judgest, Like, congratulations,
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  Speaker 1: you've won a prize. So knowing what to share and
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: what not to share and how to share those things,
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  Speaker 1: it's kind of like that whole.
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  Speaker 2: Like there's so much nuance in that though, and we're
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: asking our teenagers, whose brains are still developing to understand it.
• 7:15
  Speaker 2: But I think the easiest way to help our children
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  Speaker 2: understand is what do you hope to achieve by sharing
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: this boom? Yes? Yes, So if you share that somebody
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  Speaker 2: hates them and they've just said the most awful things
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  Speaker 2: about them, what are you hoping that's going to achieve? Yeah? Yeah,
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  Speaker 2: it's not elevating your friend, it's actually like completely destroying
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  Speaker 2: her in one moment. And so yeah, I think that
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  Speaker 2: that's a really powerful thing to help our kids understand.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, maybe a question to ask your child is would
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  Speaker 1: you want to know this if the roles were reversed,
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  Speaker 1: Like if everyone's talking about how stinky your breath is,
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  Speaker 1: would you like somebody to come and tell you that
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  Speaker 1: was what the conversation was or would it be better
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  Speaker 1: to not know?
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  Speaker 2: I think as teenagers, though, we often think we want
• 7:57
  Speaker 2: to know.
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  Speaker 1: Yes, that's a good point.
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  Speaker 2: We want, like, if you're talking about me, I want it.
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: I have to know.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, But why why do you want to know? Ye?
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  Speaker 2: How does that impact how you feel about yourself? How
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  Speaker 2: does that impact how you feel about other people? How
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  Speaker 2: does it impact the way you interact.
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  Speaker 1: There's a prace that I've used on the podcast once
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  Speaker 1: or twice, and that is what other people think of you.
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  Speaker 2: It's none of your business?
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: Is none of your business?
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah?
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's their business. Okay, let's do the third one
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  Speaker 1: and then we going to take a quick break provide
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: emotional support when it's needed. So I just should highlight
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: here this third element of great friendships does not mean
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  Speaker 1: that we need to be therapist to our friends. In fact,
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  Speaker 1: I think it's exactly the opposite. It just means that
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  Speaker 1: we show up when they're having a hard time. Emotional
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  Speaker 1: support means you're not emotion coaching. You're just sitting with
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  Speaker 1: your friend because I've had a rough day and checking
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  Speaker 1: in and saying sounds like it was a rough day.
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  Speaker 1: That's what good friends do.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's just about holding space for big emotions, allowing
• 8:51
  Speaker 2: your friend to have event if they need to have event.
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: I was in a tricky situation for a number of years.
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  Speaker 2: My four closest friends happened to all be sisters in law. Yes, yes,
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  Speaker 2: and inevitably, family dynamics are challenging. They're tricky. Someone upsets,
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  Speaker 2: somebody yet frustrated, and so I would be in this
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  Speaker 2: position where I would often be sitting with one of
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: them and they would just vent. Yeah. And I like
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: to think that I was able to play the place
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  Speaker 2: of Switzerland.
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  Speaker 1: I just realized there were four brothers and you were
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: like really really tight with all four of their wives. Yes, yeah, yeah,
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  Speaker 1: And you would come home and say, oh, there's some
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  Speaker 1: stuff going on with that family at the moment, and
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  Speaker 1: I'm just trying to be friends with all of them
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  Speaker 1: and to defend them when they're not present and say
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: I know that must be tough, and well, it sounds
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  Speaker 1: like you've had a rough day, like you were doing
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: all of the things, providing emotional support when it's needed,
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  Speaker 1: sharing important news but not sharing the wrong stuff, and
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: standing up for the friend of their absence. That's why
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  Speaker 1: people love you so much. Such a good friend. Hey,
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: we need to take a quick break. After the break,
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: the last three things that Michael Argyle and Minaic Henderson
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: found make the great friendships that we need to teach
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: our kids about. So they were We're back into the
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: Happy Families podcast as we count down six different things
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: that build strong friendships. Number four Okay, the fourth one
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: is trusting and confiding each other. So what our gyle
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: On Henderson found is that friendship deepens when there's sharing,
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  Speaker 1: like when you share something real, something I was gonna
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: say vulnerable, but it's not even about vulnerability. Sometimes it
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: is once you get to a certain point, but just
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: sharing real things about yourself. I guess it feels a
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: little bit risky, and maybe for all the kids that
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: it is, but it unlocks deeper commitment and deeper relationship.
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: Like I was on a bike ride in the last
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: couple of days with a maid of mine, and while
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: we were talking, I just felt like our relationships reached
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: a point where I shared some stuff with him that
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: I probably wouldn't share with people that I know but
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: I am not friends with. But over time friendship deepens,
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: you start to reveal a bit more. I was thinking
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: about this recently. What's your take on that? Or I
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: had this challenge the other day and I'm not sure
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: if I dealt with it quite the right way. What
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: would you do in this situation? So you're not just
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: passing on information, You're actually opening yourself up to influence.
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: You're saying, I trust you with my feelings, my insecurities,
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: my challenges, my difficulties, And I think that there's real
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: power in trusting and confiding in the other person. It's
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: just that sometimes kids go there a little bit early,
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: and sometimes kids don't go there at all. And I
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: might add, this is your superpower. This is the bit
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: that you do so well, which is why you have
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: such red friendships.
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: What's number five?
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  Speaker 1: Do you know what? This is what you do? I
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: think this one's your best one of all. This is
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: the one you do them all so well. But the
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: fifth one is volunteering help when it's required. If there's
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: one thing that I know about you, it's that you
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: just have this desire to serve other people like you
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: love people so much, and you look for opportunities to
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: serve them. You're always thinking about them. If you're in
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: the shops, you see something, you think, oh, that little trinket,
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: that little idea that would be so good for somebody.
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: And the keyword is volunteering rather than waiting to be asked.
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: Like a good friend notices when someone's struggling and they
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: offer help without being prompted. From a kid's point of view,
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: this is the child who sees a classmate struggling to
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: carry something and they say, hey, do you want some
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: help with that? Or let me get the door for you.
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: Just asking can I help, or stepping in and doing
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: the thing is one of friendship's core skills. And to me,
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: that is the thing that you do best of all.
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: I love making a positive difference in people's lives, but
• 12:35
  Speaker 2: it's not actually about me. It's about wanting to see
• 12:39
  Speaker 2: them happy, wanting to see them experience joy, even if
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: life is tough. Right now. The other night, I was
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: having a conversation with one of our daughters, and we
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: were just talking about as part of my wall in
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: my closet and talking about these women who've influenced us.
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: And she mentioned one of my friends and just said
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: that she was somebody who had really impacted her at
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: a time in her life when she was really struggling.
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: And I kind of just very imprompt you. I just
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: I grabbed my phone and I pulled up Marco Polo
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: and I pulled up my friend.
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: For those who are not familiar with Marco Polo, it's
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: kind of like a.
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: Snapchat for adults Snapchat for help.
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: It's a video messaging app where you record a video
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: of yourself and then you send it to your.
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: Friend and then and they listen to it when they've
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: got time.
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah, except some of your friends send you like forty
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: five minute long videos.
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: Because we sit in the car and we talk, but
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: we know that our timing doesn't connect with each other.
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: So it's great. But I picked it up and I said,
• 13:41
  Speaker 2: I'm putting my daughter on the spot. But she's just
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: shared something with me that's so important for you to
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: know right now. And she sent me a message back
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: she was bailing her eyes out. Did exactly what I
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: needed it to do and she just said thank you
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: for sharing that with me. She's gone through a really
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: hard time right now. She's feeling like she's just failing
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: in all the areas that matter. And to know that
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: just her small efforts to do something when she recognized
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: our daughter was having a hard time, has had such
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: a profound impact was powerful. I love it. It didn't cost anything,
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: it didn't take much time. But it's just recognizing that
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: people need to know how important they are in our lives,
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: and sometimes we just don't make the effort.
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: Here's the last one making an effort to make the
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: other person happy. So that's what you did there. You
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: saw an opportunity to send a message to a friend
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: that you knew would make a cry tears of joy,
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: the right kind of tears. It's when you remember your
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: friend's birthday, you remember something that's important to them. You
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: saved them a seat, You say I thought of you
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: when I saw this. You send them an image of
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: you at their favorite restaurant and say, wish you were
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: here with me right now. Maybe is that always friendly?
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: Sometimes that could be going. That sounded good when I
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: thought it. I'm not sure about it now, that I've
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: said it. Kids who grow up understanding that friendships require
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: active what's the word maintenance, development, input, ongoing, active consideration
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: are far better equipped to keep them. So our time
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: is well and truly up, Kylie, But I want to
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: walk through those six again and we'll put them into
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: the show notes. The six elements that make friendships flourish.
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: Standing up for the friend in their absence, sharing important
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: news with the friend, providing emotional support when it's needed,
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: trusting and confiding in each other, volunteering help when it's required,
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: and making an effort to make the other person happy.
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: And this study was done in the eighties, like this
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: is a forty plus year old study now, But those
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: six rules, they're still the right ones even in the
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: age of social media, the digital age, the age of AI.
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: Get the kids off character dot AI, get them off
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: social media and get them having genuine friendships where they
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: have these kinds of experiences, and they will, oh my goodness,
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: they they'll have such rich, enlarged lives.
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: And I think you can put a price tag on
• 16:12
  Speaker 2: a good friend, someone who will experience the highs and
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: lows of life with you. Just it makes life more meaningful.
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: In the show notes, we will link to the study
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: and those six elements that make friendships flourish. The Happy
• 16:26
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