Latest / The Front / Australia’s top 25 TV shows from Blue Murder to Bluey

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Australia’s top 25 TV shows from Blue Murder to Bluey · The Front

• 0:08
  Speaker 1: From the Australian. This is the weekend edition of The Front.
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: I'm Claire Harvey. It's been seventy years since Bruce Ginjel
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: started a revolution.
• 0:19
  Speaker 2: Good Evening and Welcome to television.
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: Television up to that point had been a novel, idea,
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: an experiment. Now, of course it's where we go for entertainment. Lucy,
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: here's no dragon.
• 0:34
  Speaker 3: Fire cannot kill the dragon.
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: To stimulate our minds and then the final strike or
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: turn them off. Hi, Brenda, how you doing.
• 0:48
  Speaker 4: I'll tell you how I'm doing.
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: Not well, bet, But with the streaming explosion, the only
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: thing outnumbering the shows on our screens are the opinions
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: about them. Today. I'm joined by Milanderbaut and Biancher fiar
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: Markets from the Australians Culture Team, and we're here to
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: look at Australia's top twenty five TV shows live right
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: now on the Australians Culture section. Is the list that
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: is going to cause more arguments this weekend than anything else.
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: It's Australia's top twenty five TV shows of all time.
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: Joining me is Culture editor Milanda Rout and Content director
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: Biancher far Marcus. We've got to start with Working Dog Milanda.
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: We're nineties girls, and this was one of the highlights
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: of being a kid or a young person in the
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: nineteen nineties. Was one of my introductions to what television
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: journalism might be like Frontline.
• 1:43
  Speaker 5: Same, welcome back.
• 1:46
  Speaker 6: Well, the vexed issue of euthanasia continues to divide the community.
• 1:50
  Speaker 6: Few debates have been as emotionally charged, and never have
• 1:53
  Speaker 6: two sides been further apart. First to you, Ronald, you
• 1:56
  Speaker 6: believe euthanasia should be legalized.
• 1:59
  Speaker 5: Absolutely, It's a fundamental right currently denied us.
• 2:02
  Speaker 3: All well, Vanessa, what do you have to say to that?
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  Speaker 7: I agree, I'm sorry.
• 2:11
  Speaker 6: The Council of Civil Liberties fully supports euthanasia.
• 2:14
  Speaker 4: Always have right.
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: That's it.
• 2:19
  Speaker 3: I was saying to someone earlier that it actually made
• 2:22
  Speaker 3: me want to be a journalist, which I don't know
• 2:23
  Speaker 3: what that says about me, but I loved it and
• 2:25
  Speaker 3: I still love it and can keep rewatching it.
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: It was a fictionalized version, basically of a current affair,
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: wasn't it. And it was so outrageous that it just
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: had to be true. They were footing the door cowboys
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: who had all the foibles that you might expect from TV.
• 2:41
  Speaker 8: Now listen, all I got to do is get him
• 2:43
  Speaker 8: refusing to speak to us, get a bit of hassling, basil,
• 2:46
  Speaker 8: jiggle the camera, and then we can just piss off
• 2:48
  Speaker 8: out of here. Okay, Jase, you're right, okay to start
• 2:52
  Speaker 8: rolling rolling, let's go.
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: I'm mister Bowman. It's Martin Destasia here from frontline. Now,
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: why won't you speak to us about the two hundred
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: and fifty thousand dollars that's gone missing from your client's
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: trust funds? All right, come in, well, come in, No,
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: I think we've got all we need. Thank you, Thank
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: you very much, mister Bowman. You've ever asked you any questions? No,
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: that's fine, there's no need to don't want to hear
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: my take your hands, don't know what's touch. There's no
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: need to get physical, there's no need for violence. All right,
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: just let my sort of get in the car. Guys,
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: get in the car. Let's go.
• 3:36
  Speaker 7: Let's go.
• 3:36
  Speaker 6: Guy, If you're what, I just don't want to hear.
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: My start the car.
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: It was also very charming and lovable. They were beautifully
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: lovable characters, weren't they? They were, And it was all
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: the kind of unsung heroes. Mike Moore, who was the host.
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: He was the stupidest one in the whole room.
• 3:52
  Speaker 3: And it was the you know, heroic patient producers that
• 3:56
  Speaker 3: put the whole show together. They were all women, coincidentally,
• 3:58
  Speaker 3: and they and it was fantastick.
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: That was produced by Working Dog, which went on to
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: make Utopia, of course, and the beloved movie The Castle.
• 4:08
  Speaker 5: What do you call that?
• 4:08
  Speaker 7: Down?
• 4:10
  Speaker 4: Sponge cake?
• 4:11
  Speaker 7: Beautiful?
• 4:12
  Speaker 5: And watch that stuff on top? I sing sugar, how
• 4:16
  Speaker 5: is it?
• 4:17
  Speaker 7: Kids?
• 4:17
  Speaker 4: Now?
• 4:17
  Speaker 5: Why would you want to go out to a restaurant
• 4:19
  Speaker 5: when this kid's coming up night after night?
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: Even Bianca, who's much younger than us, man's all about those.
• 4:27
  Speaker 3: And the dish? Yeah, and then have you been paying attention?
• 4:31
  Speaker 3: And thank god you're here. But I would argue my
• 4:35
  Speaker 3: favorite Working Dog production is even before Frontline, and that
• 4:38
  Speaker 3: was the Late Show, which is the precursor by the
• 4:41
  Speaker 3: djon which I think that's what they were called then.
• 4:44
  Speaker 3: And it used to be on a Saturday night. And
• 4:46
  Speaker 3: this may say more about my social life that I
• 4:48
  Speaker 3: remember literally coming home from parties so we could watch
• 4:50
  Speaker 3: the Late Show.
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it was one of many attempts to get late
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: night television working in Australia. Graham Kennedy had a late
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: night show for a while, Yeah, Steve Wizard. Of course
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: we don't have one now though, and that kind of
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: appointment viewing has ended, hasn't it.
• 5:04
  Speaker 3: And the problem with that is is that when I
• 5:06
  Speaker 3: do have the time, I don't know what to watch,
• 5:09
  Speaker 3: so I actually misappointment viewing, and arguably this generation does
• 5:12
  Speaker 3: as well, which is why it is such a nostalgic
• 5:14
  Speaker 3: look back to the nineties.
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: Biancher, How has the audience responded to these lists? Do
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: they agree with you guys? Or are they violently opposed?
• 5:21
  Speaker 7: Now what?
• 5:22
  Speaker 6: It has possibly been one of our least offensive lists,
• 5:25
  Speaker 6: maybe because we didn't put it together and it was
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  Speaker 6: all It was curated by our TV critic Graham Blundell,
• 5:30
  Speaker 6: who is absolutely brilliant and very respected both as an
• 5:33
  Speaker 6: actor and as a critic. But it's been fantastic to
• 5:37
  Speaker 6: see how much people actually remember, not only when they
• 5:41
  Speaker 6: saw these shows, but the history that came out of it.
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  Speaker 6: And it was possibly one of the most fun things
• 5:46
  Speaker 6: with this show seeing what was reinvented, what was, you know,
• 5:50
  Speaker 6: considered fantastic, what was considered absolutely tragic and hopeless, but
• 5:53
  Speaker 6: we loved it anyway, and what defined our cultural identity
• 5:57
  Speaker 6: during those periods.
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: One of the shows that Graham and you guys have
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: chosen is Blue Murder, which was the fictionalized story of
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: real life crooks and crims and cops in New South
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: Wales Roger Rogerson, Neddie Smith. I was covering the exploits
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: of those people as a young reporter when this was
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: published and then banned for several years while trials took place.
• 6:20
  Speaker 5: Come on, come on, please just give you anything you want.
• 6:23
  Speaker 5: Ned come on there, you tell them now, come on.
• 6:27
  Speaker 6: You talk too much.
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: It's away in trouble.
• 6:30
  Speaker 3: You're a dog.
• 6:31
  Speaker 7: You're talking to the Royal Commission.
• 6:34
  Speaker 3: I didn't meet it, you, I didn't meet it.
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  Speaker 1: It was incredibly violent, it was horrifying, but it was
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: also a launching pad for some people who are superstars now.
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: Richard Roxborough played Roger Rogerson in a very chilling way.
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  Speaker 1: And that theme of gritty crime dramas that interact with
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: real life has kept going throughout the history of Australian TV,
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: hasn't it?
• 6:58
  Speaker 3: Absolutely and you and I there are similar experience again.
• 7:01
  Speaker 3: I had that with Underbelly, which was about the Gangline
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  Speaker 3: wars in Melbourne from nineteen ninety four to two thousand
• 7:06
  Speaker 3: and four. I was reporting the game linkmitters at the time,
• 7:10
  Speaker 3: and then of course the TV show Underbelly was based
• 7:13
  Speaker 3: on the books of Andrew Ruhle and John Silvester, who
• 7:17
  Speaker 3: were crime reporters for the Age at the time and
• 7:19
  Speaker 3: covered that, so the television show spurned from that, and
• 7:23
  Speaker 3: then I also covered the hearing, which they tried to
• 7:25
  Speaker 3: suppress it and they won. But we actually got bootleg copies.
• 7:29
  Speaker 3: We were watching it in the office and there was
• 7:31
  Speaker 3: no sound. There was sound, but there was no background music.
• 7:34
  Speaker 3: I don't even know where we got them from. Wasn't
• 7:36
  Speaker 3: from court, but it was so exciting. Yeah, back of
• 7:39
  Speaker 3: a truck, but it was so exciting to watch these
• 7:42
  Speaker 3: things that were suppressed but then were also reflecting what
• 7:44
  Speaker 3: I was doing in my job. And when we looked
• 7:48
  Speaker 3: at this list and looked at the great dramas, there
• 7:51
  Speaker 3: hasn't been a drama like that for quite a while.
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: Australia's done some really bad television and showers. Some of
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: it's been sort of set in suburbia, and I would
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: argue that Neighbors and Home and Away are both pretty bad,
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: and I'm prepared to be shot down on that, but
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: Bianca is something that I hear even you know, serious
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: TV critics talk about admiringly. Is Heartbreak High.
• 8:12
  Speaker 4: I've never watched it.
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: Maybe I'm a bit traumatized by Neighbors and Home and
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: Away and I've kind of thought it might be a
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: bit like those. What is Heartbreak High actually like? And
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: why is it on the list?
• 8:21
  Speaker 6: So Heartbreak High is the reboot of the nineties show
• 8:24
  Speaker 6: and it brought it into a modern era, but it
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  Speaker 6: didn't skimp on the fact that it was very Australian,
• 8:29
  Speaker 6: so it kind of amplified these attitudes of Australian teenagers.
• 8:32
  Speaker 6: And at the time it came out, which was right
• 8:35
  Speaker 6: at the start of Lockdown, it was firstly distinguished by
• 8:39
  Speaker 6: the fact that it was put on Netflix. It was
• 8:41
  Speaker 6: exposed to the world. So it focused on the kids
• 8:45
  Speaker 6: of Hartley High.
• 8:46
  Speaker 7: Well, the following students please meet at Classroom five, d
• 8:52
  Speaker 7: Amerie Wadia, Papa McLain, Anthony Bourne. So it was like
• 8:59
  Speaker 7: a dicko to Darren Rever, damn it Quin Gelage John what.
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  Speaker 6: Kind of a more sanitized version of euphoria in the
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  Speaker 6: sense that it doesn't shy away from talking about drugs
• 9:12
  Speaker 6: or sex and all these you know, teenage habits, which
• 9:14
  Speaker 6: was definitely not my experience in high school. But they
• 9:17
  Speaker 6: were much cooler, and I think it was such an
• 9:20
  Speaker 6: incredible formula for bringing very quintessentially Australian things and not
• 9:26
  Speaker 6: shying away from keeping them as such. I do feel
• 9:29
  Speaker 6: like sometimes we try to appeal too much to global audiences.
• 9:33
  Speaker 6: I would like to take this opportunity to fight you
• 9:35
  Speaker 6: on Home and Away and thank you very much, because
• 9:38
  Speaker 6: one thing I will not stand for that this country
• 9:40
  Speaker 6: loves to do is bash soap operas. Australian soap operas
• 9:44
  Speaker 6: are leaders in the world in terms of exporting talent
• 9:47
  Speaker 6: like you look at American soaps. I've watched about two
• 9:50
  Speaker 6: hundred and fifty thousand episodes of Bold and the Beautiful.
• 9:53
  Speaker 6: I could not tell you a single one of the
• 9:55
  Speaker 6: names of the people in it.
• 9:57
  Speaker 3: They stay there, they stay on it, they stay.
• 9:59
  Speaker 6: There, they get plastic surgery, and then they die on
• 10:01
  Speaker 6: that show and then they come back. Whereas Home and
• 10:05
  Speaker 6: Away neighbors, who have we got, We've got the Hem's works,
• 10:08
  Speaker 6: We've got Margaret Robbie, Guy Pierce, Kylie Minogue. I'm sorry, Yes,
• 10:13
  Speaker 6: they're terrible.
• 10:14
  Speaker 3: Even Delta goodroom.
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: These are people who go on to win Oscars and Emmys,
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: but not not for these Australian productions, but they made them.
• 10:23
  Speaker 6: It's like working at McDonald's when you're a teenager. It
• 10:26
  Speaker 6: makes you an incredible CEO won day.
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: It really is like a boot camp. I mean the
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: discipline of working on a show like that Home and
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: Away is in an amazing production machine. From scripting to
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: a finished production is often just days. That is amazing
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: and it gives these people the talent, of course, and
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: the skills. But they're embarrassing. They aren't that Why am
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: I embarrassed by you can psychoanalyst me now, Bianca? Why
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: am I embarrassed by those shows? When I don't think
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: English people are embarrassed by Coronation Street.
• 10:53
  Speaker 6: I think it's conditioning to the accent. I think a
• 10:56
  Speaker 6: lot of people do sit down to watch and immediately
• 10:58
  Speaker 6: they hear an Australian accent and then just must assume
• 11:01
  Speaker 6: it's subpar or that less money's gone into it, it
• 11:04
  Speaker 6: doesn't have the right people backing it, which is decades
• 11:08
  Speaker 6: of conditioning. And we have waves across the small screen
• 11:11
  Speaker 6: and the silver screen where we have our moment and
• 11:13
  Speaker 6: then it lapses and we forget that this country is
• 11:16
  Speaker 6: actually extremely talented and punches well above its way considering
• 11:19
  Speaker 6: the amount of barriers we have do get those audiences.
• 11:23
  Speaker 6: But I also think what's intrinsic to most viewing experiences
• 11:27
  Speaker 6: is you want to escape. And for us, it's a
• 11:30
  Speaker 6: lot easier to watch an American show that has nothing
• 11:32
  Speaker 6: to do with our lives and get that kind of escapism.
• 11:35
  Speaker 6: Whereas you see something toothless Bill down the street in Paramatta,
• 11:40
  Speaker 6: like I know him, I don't really know if I
• 11:42
  Speaker 6: want to watch him all evening.
• 11:44
  Speaker 3: So I think also too, I was not allowed to
• 11:45
  Speaker 3: watch Neighbors Home and Away as a child. My mum
• 11:48
  Speaker 3: did not allow me.
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: But you have turned out to be very less like andisicated.
• 11:52
  Speaker 3: So but I did watch it in my twenties as
• 11:54
  Speaker 3: a rebellion, so I was like it was properly like
• 11:58
  Speaker 3: an example of you know, how to watch that. So
• 12:00
  Speaker 3: as an adult in my sharehouse, I would watch it and.
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: Other people were smoking joints, living on the wild side
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: in between all the covering the Ganglin murders.
• 12:13
  Speaker 3: I just think it's kind of those op operas are
• 12:16
  Speaker 3: kind of boring. They just and also to again. It's
• 12:18
  Speaker 3: the you know, that's all that was on TV. You
• 12:22
  Speaker 3: had four channels. You came home, you either watched the
• 12:24
  Speaker 3: news or you watched home in a wait.
• 12:32
  Speaker 4: Coming up more of my chat with Bianca and Milanda.
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: The most globally successful show on this list is Bluey.
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: I was speaking to a colleague and dear friend of ours,
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: Jasper Leek, who has never watched an episode of blue
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: and I said to him yesterday, I'm so jealous. You're
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: so lucky you get to start at the beginning. Bluey
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: is the most magical and beautiful television show and it's
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: lovely to see it being recognized internationally, isn't it.
• 13:19
  Speaker 3: Yeah, And back to be Anker's points, it sells Australia,
• 13:22
  Speaker 3: and it sells Brisbane unashamably, you know, the Queensland, and
• 13:26
  Speaker 3: now everyone knows what it is around the world. I
• 13:28
  Speaker 3: think the key to good kids stuff for me anyway,
• 13:31
  Speaker 3: personally with my children is it's bearable to the adults
• 13:34
  Speaker 3: and it speaks to the adults. And so the thing
• 13:36
  Speaker 3: about blue is it's not like Pepper Pig where you
• 13:39
  Speaker 3: kind of just want to hit your head against the
• 13:40
  Speaker 3: wall after watching the multiple times because that's what happens
• 13:43
  Speaker 3: with children. You watch them multiple times. But it's just beautiful.
• 13:47
  Speaker 3: It's just really nice.
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: It has shaped I think the way generation parents too.
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: You can't watch an episode of Bluey and not feel
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: more playful.
• 13:55
  Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly, fad.
• 14:01
  Speaker 7: What do you hear?
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: Billies want?
• 14:03
  Speaker 6: We want to pet? What pets end up taken over
• 14:06
  Speaker 6: the place?
• 14:07
  Speaker 5: I've already got you two animals for that.
• 14:09
  Speaker 6: I can train it animals.
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: Listen to me.
• 14:13
  Speaker 3: Please? Can we have a pet?
• 14:15
  Speaker 7: But you've already got one.
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: Sean Richard Rockbrow was chilling as Detective Roger Rogerson in
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: Blue Murder, and he was charming and deeply flawed as
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: Barrister Cleaver Green in Rake The Wretched Politics to drive
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: me knots.
• 14:35
  Speaker 6: It's supposed to be a happy event.
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: Correct, that is absolutely correct?
• 14:39
  Speaker 5: What excuse me? I've noticed you say the word correct
• 14:45
  Speaker 5: a lot.
• 14:45
  Speaker 3: Really, Yeah, I hadn't noticed.
• 14:48
  Speaker 5: Yes, when somebody says something that you agree with, you
• 14:51
  Speaker 5: don't say yes or uh huh, you say correct. It's
• 14:57
  Speaker 5: but like a school teacher talking to it ten year old.
• 15:00
  Speaker 5: You know you're not actually agreeing, you're approving. It's as
• 15:05
  Speaker 5: if the statement is invalid until you deem itself.
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: Why is rakeso appealing when it does have the Australian
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: accent and the kind of Australian setting that we in
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: other context might find cringe.
• 15:18
  Speaker 6: I'm a Rake die hard. I'd say it's the first
• 15:21
  Speaker 6: show that I truly watched it as an adult when
• 15:23
  Speaker 6: I was developing some sense of taste for all its flaws,
• 15:26
  Speaker 6: for all its insanity, and for all its craziness. As
• 15:29
  Speaker 6: a King's Cross local and a die hard defender of
• 15:33
  Speaker 6: the Coca Cola strip, it made me truly proud to
• 15:35
  Speaker 6: be an Australian. That show, which is I don't know
• 15:38
  Speaker 6: how you'll interpret that. That show did something so important
• 15:42
  Speaker 6: for the area that has been gentrified and pillaged over
• 15:45
  Speaker 6: recent years. There have been several cafe owners that bought
• 15:48
  Speaker 6: establishments that were featured in Rake and made sure that
• 15:52
  Speaker 6: they were preserved and protected from becoming, you know, another
• 15:54
  Speaker 6: boutique hotel of something that no one can afford to
• 15:57
  Speaker 6: go to, and kept all the interior architecture just so
• 16:00
  Speaker 6: that people could fans of the show, fans of the
• 16:02
  Speaker 6: area could still enjoy it. And that to me, I
• 16:05
  Speaker 6: was like, this is this is what television does when
• 16:08
  Speaker 6: this country champions it. It really does remind us that
• 16:12
  Speaker 6: it's actually absolutely awesome to be Australian and we have
• 16:15
  Speaker 6: so many compelling stories to tell of them are absolutely batshit.
• 16:21
  Speaker 3: The other thing too, was that sea change did the
• 16:23
  Speaker 3: same thing, which is, you know, it started a sea change,
• 16:26
  Speaker 3: and it completely gentrified bow and Heads and all the
• 16:30
  Speaker 3: Bellerine peninsula and no one would get pasted along before
• 16:34
  Speaker 3: dive down, and now everyone went. They changed the whole
• 16:39
  Speaker 3: coast of Victoria. It's set up tourism down there and
• 16:42
  Speaker 3: it started a proper sea change and countless had lines
• 16:46
  Speaker 3: about sea changes and tree changes ever since. So I
• 16:48
  Speaker 3: think it's fascinating where history and television and fiction and
• 16:51
  Speaker 3: culture and life all intermixed and then produce these things
• 16:54
  Speaker 3: which are really timely and obviously contribute to when they land.
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: Well that's what the culture sections all of. I can't
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: wait to read it in full. Thank you very much,
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: thank you, thank you. Melander Raut is editor and Bianca
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: far Markers is Content Director of Culture at The Australian.
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: Check out their work now at the Australian dot com
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: dot au slash culture. This episode of the Front was
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: hosted by me Claire Harvey and produced by Jasper League.
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: My team also includes Kristin Amiot, Leat Sammaglue, Tiffany Dimac,
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: and Joshua Burton