Latest / Brian Thomas / FOP Pres Ken Kober - Theetge Fired

Transcript

FOP Pres Ken Kober - Theetge Fired · Brian Thomas

0:00
Speaker 1: Buckstation at six o five and very happy Friday to you,
0:04
Speaker 1: Brian Thomas. Welcoming back and timing could not be better.
0:08
Speaker 1: And I'm shocked at Ken Cooper FOP president is on
0:11
Speaker 1: the phone right now. No, I'm not shocked. It always
0:13
Speaker 1: just pleases hell to find out that Ken is going
0:14
Speaker 1: to be joining the program. Of course represented the since
0:16
Speaker 1: I Police Department as the head of the union ket.
0:19
Speaker 1: It's good to have you back on the program. I
0:20
Speaker 1: guess you got the word police chief thieves. You got
0:22
Speaker 1: fired yesterday by city Manager Cheryl Long. Good to have
0:24
Speaker 1: you back on my friend.
0:26
Speaker 2: Thank good morning, Brian, thanks for having me.
0:28
Speaker 1: What's your reaction just general reaction to the letter because
0:31
Speaker 1: it confused me. Let me just ask you at the outset.
0:35
Speaker 1: Was there anything new that city Manager Cheryl Long cited
0:39
Speaker 1: as the basis for Fiji's termination, Anything new that you
0:43
Speaker 1: needed an outside law firm to go find that they
0:46
Speaker 1: didn't know already before they placed yourund administrative leave. Just
0:49
Speaker 1: the initial question.
0:50
Speaker 2: There, No, not that I saw.
0:53
Speaker 1: Okay, So do you find it puzzling that maybe some
0:55
Speaker 1: of these specific illustrations were not mentioned previously as an
0:59
Speaker 1: explanation for why placed on administrative leave. The silence was deafening,
1:02
Speaker 1: and the retentional law firm I found very puzzling.
1:05
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, the thought that was really interesting, especially
1:09
Speaker 2: after seeing the mayor's press conference yesterday, is that he
1:11
Speaker 2: kept on saying, look, I have anything to do this.
1:13
Speaker 2: This is independent. I don't have anything to do this.
1:15
Speaker 2: He knew a whole heck of a lot about what
1:18
Speaker 2: was going on with this for somebody that was prepended
1:21
Speaker 2: like they were in the dark.
1:22
Speaker 1: Well, and isn't it odd knowing full well, everyone expects
1:26
Speaker 1: a lawsuit to be filed, you know, wrongful termination. She's
1:29
Speaker 1: already got a lawyer, she's had once the event's been
1:31
Speaker 1: around for a while. He's already suggested he's going to sue.
1:34
Speaker 1: There was some comment from pervol that she had demanded
1:36
Speaker 1: seven point five million dollars, whether or not that's accurate
1:38
Speaker 1: or not. But his statement yesterday that you refer to
1:41
Speaker 1: there's going to be discovery, and there's going to be depositions,
1:45
Speaker 1: and there's going to be a document request and the
1:48
Speaker 1: interrogatory served during the lawsuit over her termination. So the
1:52
Speaker 1: truth is going to come out. So he had really
1:54
Speaker 1: mind his p's and cues on what he said yesterday,
1:56
Speaker 1: knowing full well that maybe his statements would be put
1:59
Speaker 1: to the test of evidence.
2:02
Speaker 2: All without a doubt. That's when this is going to
2:04
Speaker 2: likely get very very interesting. Is when you get sworn
2:08
Speaker 2: under oath and go in front of mister m with
2:13
Speaker 2: these depositions. Is when it's really really going to get interesting.
2:17
Speaker 1: It is without question, all right, as I understand the
2:19
Speaker 1: city charter, she had already served more than six months
2:22
Speaker 1: when they placed her administrative and leave. The only basis
2:25
Speaker 1: she could be removed was for cause after that six
2:28
Speaker 1: month period where she operated as chief at their pleasure.
2:32
Speaker 1: And it requires incompetency, inefficiency, dishonesty, insubordination, unsatisfactory performance, any
2:40
Speaker 1: other failure of good behavior, any other acts of misfeasance,
2:43
Speaker 1: malfeasance or nonfeasance in the office, or conviction of a felony.
2:46
Speaker 1: So we can get rid of a lot of those.
2:47
Speaker 1: But do you have any concept as to which specific
2:50
Speaker 1: reason they hung their hat on in dismissing her yesterday?
2:57
Speaker 2: Well, and you look at it. I mean she put
2:58
Speaker 2: in the letter that went to Chief Fiji that you
3:02
Speaker 2: know she was in subordinate. She was told to do
3:06
Speaker 2: things that she didn't do. But it's like a question,
3:08
Speaker 2: why didn't Why didn't you address those things while they
3:10
Speaker 2: were happening. Yeah, claiming that you know that she was
3:13
Speaker 2: not allowed that the city manager was not allowed to
3:16
Speaker 2: talk to command staff. Well, you're the city manager, you're
3:20
Speaker 2: you're the chief's boss. If she's doing something that you
3:24
Speaker 2: don't like or that you think, so, why didn't you
3:26
Speaker 2: address it right then.
3:27
Speaker 1: Call her on the carpet, bring her into a meeting, right,
3:30
Speaker 1: And that didn't happen.
3:31
Speaker 2: Yeah, Oh, absolutely not. Of course it didn't happen. Now,
3:35
Speaker 2: now all of a sudden, it's this big problem.
3:37
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you know it's odd. At the time of
3:39
Speaker 1: you know, the the various you know, outbreaks of crime
3:41
Speaker 1: in downtown, the shootings, the riots, the stabbings and all that,
3:45
Speaker 1: Mary I have to have Purwell was expressing confidence in
3:47
Speaker 1: police chief Thigi's a competence on the job. And it
3:50
Speaker 1: was only until recently I suppose that he changed his
3:53
Speaker 1: mind on that. Again, going back to all of these
3:55
Speaker 1: specific illustrations, sided by city manager Long for what they
3:58
Speaker 1: claimed she did poorly, no calling out of the carpet,
4:03
Speaker 1: and no criticism from the mayor. City manager Long at
4:05
Speaker 1: the time. I just again, it sounds like going back
4:08
Speaker 1: and trying to reinvent circumstances or now create circumstances that
4:11
Speaker 1: they say she was well misfeasance or malfeasance or whatever,
4:16
Speaker 1: just to just to justify the termination. I don't see
4:19
Speaker 1: how this is going to stand the test of a litigation. Ken,
4:22
Speaker 1: I really don't.
4:23
Speaker 2: No, no, I don't want you know. And you look
4:25
Speaker 2: at you, like what they did to Chief Michael Washington,
4:28
Speaker 2: now they're doing it to her. It's like, you know,
4:31
Speaker 2: this is just just the latest example of a poor
4:35
Speaker 2: decision made by the city manager that's gonna end up
4:37
Speaker 2: cost of these taxpayers millions millions of dollars.
4:41
Speaker 1: Well, and speaking of dollars, one of the complaints that
4:43
Speaker 1: long had a determination letter is that you had the
4:46
Speaker 1: money you needed for staffing in recruitment, you still didn't act.
4:50
Speaker 1: Referring to the amount of police officers that the city
4:53
Speaker 1: manager apparently had requested a full contingent of officers at
4:56
Speaker 1: Washington Park or whatever, which would have required Fiji to
4:59
Speaker 1: order officers. There's mandate overtime hours. The chief is the
5:04
Speaker 1: one responsible for morale the police department. It probably knows
5:07
Speaker 1: better than city manager law, because she's not there with
5:09
Speaker 1: the police day to day. How bad the morale is?
5:12
Speaker 1: I know, forcing people to work overtime that they don't
5:14
Speaker 1: want to work, it's already a problem. I've heard from you, Ken,
5:17
Speaker 1: and correct me if I'm wrong. We don't have enough
5:19
Speaker 1: police officers anyway. We're low on numbers. Thank you defund
5:22
Speaker 1: police folks. But how do you force officers to work
5:25
Speaker 1: just constantly seven days a week, maybe without pissing them
5:28
Speaker 1: off or otherwise reducing morale? That is a that's a
5:31
Speaker 1: chief function to decide.
5:33
Speaker 2: Hmm.
5:34
Speaker 1: I'm looking at crime statistics. Does it really require mandating
5:38
Speaker 1: over time? I, as chief make these determinations as the
5:42
Speaker 1: as the head of the department. I don't think it
5:44
Speaker 1: does well. Apparently with hindsight, Long says that was wrong.
5:48
Speaker 1: She specifically disregarded her directives. But that's a that's a
5:53
Speaker 1: management function. That's a management decision. Do you find a
5:55
Speaker 1: problem with that back and forth that she cited? I mean,
5:59
Speaker 1: what's the deal with the mandated overtime? Ken?
6:02
Speaker 2: No, without a doubt. And it's funny because the chief
6:04
Speaker 2: I talked about this last summer when they were trying
6:06
Speaker 2: to do this, They wanted to make it mandatory for
6:10
Speaker 2: officers to come in on their off time and work
6:13
Speaker 2: and walk a beat between on Vine and Maine, between
6:19
Speaker 2: Central Parkway and Liberty. Well, there was no data to
6:23
Speaker 2: suggest that this was such a crime bridden area, and
6:26
Speaker 2: it was like from four to midnight, seven days a week.
6:30
Speaker 2: There was nothing to suggest in the data that this
6:33
Speaker 2: is where they should have this increased patrols. In fact,
6:37
Speaker 2: you looked at all the crime that was going on
6:39
Speaker 2: and over the Rhine, it was north over the Rhine,
6:40
Speaker 2: it was everything north of Liberty. But ironically they only
6:44
Speaker 2: wanted them in this specific area, and it's because that's
6:48
Speaker 2: where a lot of the revitalization was or is currently
6:53
Speaker 2: a lot of three EC owned properties. Of course you're
6:56
Speaker 2: in those areas and I've flught. I told the chief,
6:59
Speaker 2: I go listen, you can't do that. These cops are
7:00
Speaker 2: over work to begin with, and now to tell them
7:03
Speaker 2: that they're going to come and do this on our
7:04
Speaker 2: off days, they go. You do realize that we're we're
7:07
Speaker 2: in a staffing shortage like everybody else's. If you want
7:11
Speaker 2: to make these cops mad, especially younger cops, and get
7:15
Speaker 2: them to leave and go to other departments and go
7:17
Speaker 2: ahead and force this overtime on them. And that's when
7:20
Speaker 2: she brought up the fact and listen, data doesn't even
7:22
Speaker 2: suggest we should be Here's like, I'm not doing it.
7:24
Speaker 2: These cops are over work to begin with, right, you know,
7:27
Speaker 2: it is what it is. And you know that's the
7:29
Speaker 2: neat part is she's going to be able to stand
7:30
Speaker 2: behind what this data says because they have it. So
7:35
Speaker 2: the question is going to become is why were you
7:36
Speaker 2: Why did you want cops to work in an area
7:39
Speaker 2: that wasn't experiencing a spike and crime. That's the question
7:42
Speaker 2: that they're going to have to answer.
7:43
Speaker 1: That is, and they will have to answer it.
7:46
Speaker 2: Is it?
7:46
Speaker 1: I mean, you've been around police starting a long time
7:49
Speaker 1: ahead of the FOP, of course. Can Does the city
7:53
Speaker 1: manager regularly tell the police chief, any police chief, how
7:57
Speaker 1: many people need to be staffed at any given.
8:02
Speaker 2: Yeah? Not not to my knowledge, they don't.
8:04
Speaker 1: I mean it's that's the day to day operations.
8:06
Speaker 2: Yea, yeah, absolutely. I mean I sit in staff meetings,
8:10
Speaker 2: you know, where assistant chiefs the chief captains will talk about, Hey,
8:14
Speaker 2: I've got this event coming up, Okay, is it adequately staffed?
8:17
Speaker 2: Do you need more resources. The city manager's not in there,
8:19
Speaker 2: the mayor's not in they're telling them these things. This
8:22
Speaker 2: is something that's done internally, because well, they're the chief
8:25
Speaker 2: of police, are and assistant chief, they're commanders. Those are
8:28
Speaker 2: decisions they should be making. I don't know somebody that's
8:30
Speaker 2: never worn a uniform, you know, that would potentially be
8:34
Speaker 2: making these decisions. It doesn't make any sense if you
8:36
Speaker 2: me going into a doctor's office and going, hey, doc,
8:39
Speaker 2: let me need you to operate on this person and
8:41
Speaker 2: do it do it here? Because of this, what do
8:43
Speaker 2: I know about you know, surgery? Right? Thing right?
8:46
Speaker 1: That's how I was viewing. That's why I asked this
8:48
Speaker 1: a big question. How often does a city manager make
8:52
Speaker 1: specific and day today employment decisions and and and overtime decisions?
8:55
Speaker 1: They don't, all right? They also city manager also was
8:58
Speaker 1: referring to Police Chief DJ's skipping in October fourteenth public
9:02
Speaker 1: safety town hall meetings. She sent an assistant chief over,
9:06
Speaker 1: Oh she went to a play again. Isn't this a
9:10
Speaker 1: police chief decision? Did she get called out into the
9:12
Speaker 1: carpet for not showing up on October I mean the
9:14
Speaker 1: next day, October fifteenth. I mean, I'm not sure why
9:17
Speaker 1: this is a bone of contention, Ken, do you understand no?
9:22
Speaker 2: And this is just it's this is just a failed
9:25
Speaker 2: attempt at trying to say that she was not doing
9:28
Speaker 2: anything she should have been. But if the city manager
9:30
Speaker 2: thought it was so incredibly important that she was there
9:33
Speaker 2: once again, she is her boss, why didn't she say, Hey, Keith,
9:38
Speaker 2: you're going.
9:38
Speaker 1: To be at this legitimate question more with Ken Cobert.
9:41
Speaker 1: Ken don't go away because there's more to breakdown this letter.
9:43
Speaker 1: So let's talk about that and when we get back,
9:46
Speaker 1: and you know, you had your roof dealing with that
9:48
Speaker 1: harsh winner and it's been for station six fifty five
9:52
Speaker 1: KARC DE talk station by Thomas right here was never
9:55
Speaker 1: named a very happy Friday with FOP President ken Coe
10:00
Speaker 1: going over Cheryl Long's termination letter to police Chiefdji came
10:04
Speaker 1: out yesterday and we talked about the overtime and I'm
10:07
Speaker 1: with you all day long. That seems to me a
10:09
Speaker 1: day to day determination of the chief. You know, the
10:11
Speaker 1: city manager shouldn't be making decisions regarding how many officers
10:13
Speaker 1: at any given place at any given time. So moving forward, uh,
10:17
Speaker 1: Cheryl Long said, THIJI damage relationships with important city partners,
10:22
Speaker 1: you showed an inability Bill bridges or and work with
10:24
Speaker 1: important city partners with whom you disagreed. Now I don't
10:27
Speaker 1: know about that, but specifically, she referenced this the Cincinni
10:31
Speaker 1: Public School Board, which, according to the reporting, told police
10:37
Speaker 1: Chiefdiji to not attend school board meetings and also complained
10:41
Speaker 1: to Mayor have to have provout provol when she showed
10:44
Speaker 1: up unannounced to a board meeting and showed up with
10:46
Speaker 1: costs of dealing with disorderly students. What does the since
10:50
Speaker 1: a public school board have to do with police chief
10:53
Speaker 1: but the police chief Ken, Do you understand this particular allegation.
10:57
Speaker 2: No. The ironic part about this is, and I sat
11:00
Speaker 2: in these meetings with when juveniles were actually out of
11:03
Speaker 2: control in twenty twenty four, I said, any chief put
11:07
Speaker 2: together a meeting with Metro since public schools, juvenile Court,
11:12
Speaker 2: the Prosecutor's office. I mean, there were was a whole
11:16
Speaker 2: room full of people that sat down and we're trying
11:18
Speaker 2: to figure out how to address this. So I'm at
11:22
Speaker 2: a loss. I mean, but you know, ironically enough, I'm like,
11:26
Speaker 2: these school board meetings are open to the public if
11:28
Speaker 2: the chief wants to go there, because there's something she
11:31
Speaker 2: thinks should be addressed. You're mad at her because she
11:33
Speaker 2: didn't go to a public safety meeting, But now you're
11:35
Speaker 2: mad at her because she went to a school board meeting.
11:38
Speaker 2: Which one is it.
11:39
Speaker 1: I'm glad you said it that way, because that's the
11:41
Speaker 1: first thing I went in my mind. She's a city residence,
11:44
Speaker 1: she has control over, she has to deal with all
11:45
Speaker 1: these youths that are in the since public schools. Why
11:47
Speaker 1: wouldn't she be there and what's wrong with her being there?
11:50
Speaker 1: Do you think the school board just didn't want to
11:52
Speaker 1: talk about the problems we had with youth in the
11:54
Speaker 1: city of Cincinnati, perhaps Ken without a doubt.
11:57
Speaker 2: Without a doubt, that's exactly what this came down to. Shed.
12:01
Speaker 2: They did not like the fact that she wanted to
12:05
Speaker 2: hold these leaders accountable for their inaction, and somehow that's
12:08
Speaker 2: that's her fault.
12:10
Speaker 1: All right. Well, I suppose now that this public opinion
12:17
Speaker 1: comment to Corne to Cheryl Long cgi had previously stated
12:21
Speaker 1: that she would set down if public opinions shifted or
12:24
Speaker 1: things weren't going right or properly. I don't know how
12:27
Speaker 1: do you gauge public opinion and who's the determination as
12:30
Speaker 1: to whether the majority of the public has lost faith
12:33
Speaker 1: or confidence in police CHIEFDG. This is a This is
12:35
Speaker 1: a rather disturbing and subjective metric, isn't it.
12:39
Speaker 2: Oh, without a doubt, And it's of course they do
12:41
Speaker 2: it design that way. That way, you know, they can
12:44
Speaker 2: try to find a scapegoat, especially a couple of weeks
12:46
Speaker 2: before an election.
12:48
Speaker 1: All right, And as to the April tenth Plead predisciplinary hearing,
12:52
Speaker 1: city Manager Cheryl Long accused THEG. I guess this is
12:55
Speaker 1: a fault from police Chief THEG because she did not
12:57
Speaker 1: present any witnesses or bring any documents or records. I
13:01
Speaker 1: guess I'm kind of wondering what police Chief THEJI should
13:03
Speaker 1: have done and did did Fiji know specifically what allegations
13:07
Speaker 1: or concerns will be addressed to thijis so she would
13:10
Speaker 1: know in advance who to bring or what documents to
13:12
Speaker 1: show up with.
13:14
Speaker 2: Now, and you know, these predisciplinary hearings, it's it's almost
13:19
Speaker 2: always predetermined as to what the outcome is going to be. So,
13:23
Speaker 2: you know, me having participated in dozens of these over
13:27
Speaker 2: my career, that's just it's you're you're not gonna You're
13:32
Speaker 2: not going to change somebody's opinion, especially in this situation,
13:36
Speaker 2: it wouldn't matter what she said when she went in there,
13:38
Speaker 2: we knew that the fate was her fate was sealed
13:40
Speaker 2: in October.
13:42
Speaker 1: Yeah, that seemed pretty obvious. Now in so far as
13:45
Speaker 1: uh Christopher Smitheman's motion to change the chart of the city.
13:48
Speaker 1: Since I to require council members to be involved in this,
13:51
Speaker 1: what is your reaction to the concept and the petitions
13:54
Speaker 1: being circulated. Are you in favor of it or against it?
13:57
Speaker 2: Now? I think it's fantastic any anytime youing you can
14:02
Speaker 2: allow council, which of course is elected by the citizens
14:07
Speaker 2: of the city, you know, to be able to make
14:09
Speaker 2: these decisions. And you're talking about it would take seven
14:11
Speaker 2: out of the nine council members to do this. And
14:14
Speaker 2: look at the council members that they interviewed yesterday and
14:17
Speaker 2: the things that they were saying, basically, listen, we hope
14:20
Speaker 2: that this gets settled out of court. We don't want
14:22
Speaker 2: to have to go through this. We don't want to
14:24
Speaker 2: go through this. They know it's wrong. You know, they're
14:27
Speaker 2: in a tough position because what are they going to do.
14:29
Speaker 2: They're going to go speak out against the city manager
14:31
Speaker 2: they should, they should, They could, yeah, and they could,
14:35
Speaker 2: but they're not so they they're roundabout way as you know,
14:39
Speaker 2: students there for thirty five years. We hope this just
14:41
Speaker 2: gets resolved. Of course they do, because it's going to
14:44
Speaker 2: be worse if it's not.
14:46
Speaker 1: Kaed Scott warb Over, the inquiry has counted. Jeff Kramatan,
14:49
Speaker 1: Council with Kramating said he supports long decision and here
14:53
Speaker 1: you go, and that it's not council's role to get
14:55
Speaker 1: involved in personnel decisions. And I'm sure he's like, you know,
14:58
Speaker 1: he's taking cover behind it. We don't have to do that.
15:00
Speaker 1: That's not our role. Don't ask me about this. We
15:02
Speaker 1: weren't consulted. Well, it's about time that you got consulted
15:05
Speaker 1: in advance of the hiring and firing. Elected official accountability.
15:09
Speaker 1: That's what Smitheman's motion will bring about. Let's change the
15:11
Speaker 1: charter and make that happen. Sign the circulating petition. Han Kober,
15:16
Speaker 1: thank you so much for what you do each and
15:17
Speaker 1: every day. We support this insin police department as you
15:20
Speaker 1: know here at fifty five KRC and my listeners do
15:22
Speaker 1: as well, and I wish you all the best. Well
15:25
Speaker 1: navigating the challenges presented and hopefully you end up with
15:27
Speaker 1: a great police chief. Good, have a good one, Ken,
15:33
Speaker 1: all right.
15:34
Speaker 2: All right, thanks Brian, thanks for having me a little
15:36
Speaker 1: Root for you have a great weekend and I'm sure