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Perfectionism (and how we're unlearning it) · Three Rebel Souls

1:33
Hello, everybody.
1:34
Hello.
1:37
Hello.
1:39
Little.
1:40
Here we go.
1:41
Click.
1:44
We have to make the sound that reminds me of in the Good Place when Janet's like, I'm doing my own Bings now.
1:51
Like, when everything goes offline and she has to, like, Bing.
1:54
That's.
1:55
We have to make our own click for the clacky board.
1:58
Right.
2:00
Would it pick it up anyway?
2:01
Even if it did have a.
2:05
Only if we vocalize it with our.
2:08
Well, then we just keep doing that.
2:10
Yeah.
2:11
I mean, we're off to a good start.
2:13
Already off the rails.
2:15
Right.
2:15
So here.
2:17
Typical.
2:18
Another preview of general.
2:20
Exactly.
2:22
Goodness.
2:24
How are we doing today, ladies?
2:28
Quick check in.
2:32
I feel like how I always feel when we're going to record.
2:34
Excited and nervous.
2:38
And I feel like it just.
2:39
It can't be one without the other.
2:41
Oh, yeah.
2:43
I.
2:44
I mean, I heard once that being nervous about something means that you care about the outcome, that you're, like, deeply invested.
2:55
Yeah.
2:55
So I like that story because I get nervous sometimes, too, and I care.
2:59
Yeah, that makes sense.
3:03
As the author of How Emotions are Made.
3:07
And I know.
3:07
I can't remember her name.
3:08
It's three letters.
3:09
It's three words.
3:11
She says, get your butterflies in a.
3:13
Information.
3:16
Oh, I like that.
3:17
Yeah.
3:18
Okay.
3:19
Get your butterflies information.
3:20
Here we go.
3:21
Because today we're talking about perfectionism.
3:26
Oh, no, wait, no, sorry.
3:27
I'm gonna edit that out.
3:28
How are you today, Stacy?
3:33
Say.
3:33
Hold on.
3:34
I have to say how I am, and then you have to say how you are.
3:37
And.
3:40
Good.
3:40
It's the weekend.
3:44
Yeah.
3:44
Went to see the dogs.
3:45
I'm gonna doc.
3:46
Sit yesterday.
3:47
Stopped in to visit my mom.
3:49
Hung out with a friend, so.
3:51
Yeah, it's been busy already, and I have another full day, so.
3:57
Getting out.
3:58
Of the house to relax sometime, that's.
4:02
How my weekends have looked lately.
4:04
There's so many things to get, like, caught up on, like just outside projects now that the weather is nice and inside projects.
4:16
I finally hung the wallpaper in the new shelving in our bathroom yesterday.
4:21
Yeah, you have to show us.
4:24
I'll send you pictures.
4:26
A little slight catastrophe.
4:27
Contractor is going to have to come back and fix something, but that's not my fault.
4:35
Anyway, so.
4:39
Speaking of perfectionism.
4:45
Right.
4:46
So.
4:46
So I think I'm.
4:47
I'm actually feeling a lot better this week because I feel like my schedule has, like, resettled.
4:51
It's, like, balanced.
4:53
After the workshop, I delivered a couple weeks ago.
4:56
Like, leading up to.
4:58
And then doing that, everything felt very chaotic, like I didn't have enough hours.
5:03
And then this week, maybe I Just did a better job creating my to do list, since that's something I have been actively working on.
5:11
But I felt like it was a lot more accomplished this week.
5:15
Like, I got.
5:16
I had the time to actually, like, get through things and make some progress, which felt really good.
5:23
So I'm feeling better this week.
5:24
I'm feeling a bit more settled, but I'm with you.
5:29
Like, today I have to, like, give the dogs a bath because they keep rolling around in something in the backyard that they think is cologne and it's not, and.
5:44
Yeah, to, like, power wash and just do dumb stuff.
5:48
You know what I mean?
5:48
I thought you were gonna say power wash the dogs.
5:51
No, they would not be down with that.
5:54
They aren't even down with walking past a sprinkler in someone's yard in the mornings.
5:59
On our walks, they absolutely lose their minds.
6:02
So, yeah, they wouldn't be down with that.
6:05
But they are not labs.
6:10
They're also.
6:10
They're also not acting like German shepherds.
6:13
I'm like, I thought you were supposed to be tough.
6:15
Like, I don't understand what's happening.
6:17
They're not.
6:19
Yeah, tell that to the groundhog they played tug of war with last week.
6:24
Oh, no, guys.
6:25
I don't even.
6:26
I can't.
6:26
I didn't even tell you that story today.
6:28
It was very traumatizing.
6:30
We'll talk about that some other time.
6:32
Oh.
6:36
Anyway.
6:38
Oh.
6:39
Feel like we need to start over.
6:41
No, that's fine.
6:43
You just made me realize that's gonna suck when Don's not around to take care of that shit anymore, so.
6:51
Okay.
6:53
Okay.
6:54
So we are here today to talk about perfectionism.
6:59
This came up a lot when we did our courage episode, when we were talking about our core values, because we were talking about how courageous it is to do things sometimes.
7:12
Like, before we feel, quote, unquote, ready, because we may never, in fact, feel ready or just that it.
7:19
For me, the act of courage.
7:21
This came up a lot for me because the act of courage was doing things imperfectly.
7:27
It felt we.
7:28
There were a lot of themes in our courage episode around.
7:32
Anything that's vulnerable is courageous.
7:35
And for me, imperfection felt very vulnerable.
7:41
And I'm gonna try to use, like, past tense, because, again, this is something I'm, like, actively working on.
7:48
Wouldn't say that, like, we're 100% there yet, and I don't know that we ever will be, but we're.
7:54
But I'm working towards this, and.
7:58
I.
7:58
Want to use language that reflects progress, because I can't.
8:02
I do acknowledge that there has been progress, but it's still something that's, like, challenging.
8:09
And I think that both of you can relate, which is why we decided this was going to be a whole episode of its own.
8:16
So first things first.
8:19
How does this kind of manifest for the two of you?
8:22
Like, in.
8:22
Are there specific areas of your lives where you notice this showing up everywhere?
8:30
Okay.
8:32
Every part of my life.
8:34
I get that.
8:37
Trying to think for once.
8:41
I'm trying to think of where it doesn't show up.
8:43
Right.
8:44
Maybe that's an easier task than thinking of where it shows up.
8:49
How much time do we have?
8:51
I would say for me, it's definitely more prevalent with other people.
8:57
Like, sorry, this is gonna sound.
9:03
It sound in my head, it sounds so pompous.
9:05
Like I'm reframing it to make it sound palatable.
9:10
But that's really what the soundtrack in my head is saying is it's.
9:14
I have really high standards for how things are done.
9:20
And yes, that was training, but also some of that's me.
9:29
Right?
9:29
Like, if you're gonna clean something, then clean it.
9:33
Like, don't have asic because then it's not clean.
9:35
Like, you know what I'm saying?
9:37
So.
9:41
I just had, like an active, visceral reaction to that specific example.
9:45
Oh, yeah, me too.
9:47
And yeah, some of that was training.
9:48
Like, I was trained as a child.
9:51
Right.
9:52
To clean.
9:54
And if you didn't do a good enough job, then you're going to keep doing it until it's done the way it's supposed to be done.
10:01
Yeah.
10:02
I think.
10:02
Which is the opposite message Adriana received.
10:05
Yeah, you didn't do a good job.
10:07
Don't do it.
10:09
But that's me now.
10:11
That's what I became.
10:13
I'm that I was that mom.
10:15
Right.
10:16
Like, I wanted it to keep, like, keep trying and improve, like, every time.
10:24
Don't just keep half assing everything.
10:28
Right.
10:28
I like continuous improvement.
10:30
So, yeah, I'm gonna stop talking.
10:35
I think I'm moving down the road.
10:38
I find it interesting because how the message that you're giving you continue, right?
10:45
Like.
10:46
Like you're saying, like, that was the message that you were given.
10:48
So then you continue doing that.
10:49
Like, I mean, for me, it was like you said, it was my mom who was like, and with cleaning, do it right or don't do it at all.
10:59
So.
11:02
So.
11:03
So that message was like, I never did anything right, so don't do it at all.
11:09
And it's still today.
11:11
I struggle with that because I'm afraid of not knowing how to do Something.
11:16
So it paralyzed me most of my.
11:20
Life or of not getting it right the first time, but.
11:26
But it was like, terrifying to even try.
11:29
I mean, and still I struggle with that.
11:30
And even doing this, right?
11:33
Like, and all the behind the scenes work that we have to do, it's scary for me.
11:39
It's like, like I feel terrified, like, oh, my God, I don't know how to do this.
11:44
And then, you know, it.
11:46
It just rolls into other, other things, you know, where, like, I start to, you know, then you get the voice in your head and then you want to be yourself up about not knowing something.
11:57
But I've never done this, so I'm learning.
11:58
So I'm also at the same time learning to not beat myself up because, I don't know, something.
12:07
It's.
12:08
Yeah.
12:09
That I.
12:10
I mean, yeah, I think Erica was actually when.
12:15
When you were coaching me three years ago that that first came up and I was like, oh, my God.
12:20
That.
12:20
That message was really, really did me in.
12:23
You know, you think it's about cleaning the bathroom, but it turned out to be about so much more in my life, you know?
12:30
Yeah, well, and I think to piggyback on that, the message was, I don't know why I bother.
12:42
I'll just do everything myself.
12:45
And then that was.
12:45
That sort of became like a guilt or a shame thing, at least for me.
12:52
Like, oh, well, I guess I didn't do this, right?
12:54
And I am a useless piece of shit.
12:57
So now I'm like, now I'm a burden to someone else because they have to pick up my slack, right?
13:04
So there's like, there's a lot of dimensions to that, like old messaging, that old narrative.
13:14
And I agree that it has paralyzed me a lot too, because.
13:18
Because it has gotten me stuck so many different times in my life in this pattern of, well, if I can't do it right, I might as well not do it.
13:28
So guess what?
13:29
I need to read more books or read more articles or listen to more podcasts or learn more before I even try because I don't want to get it wrong.
13:38
Yeah.
13:40
And that's not helpful because it stopped me from doing so many things, or it's taken.
13:45
Things have taken me so much longer than they could have if I had just tried, made a mistake and learned immediately.
13:54
Right.
13:55
Because that's the part that we've talked about so much, the value in failure and mistakes.
14:01
But I was so afraid of failure for so long in my life because I received praise for getting things right.
14:10
I received a lot of praise and Recognition for doing things well.
14:14
And that was sort of how I learned to move through the world.
14:19
Right.
14:19
Like, it.
14:20
I think it was very external, but also I internalized all of those messages and associated that with, like, my value, which is a bummer.
14:36
Right?
14:37
So I, like, I feel the same way that you feel, Adrian.
14:40
I think a lot of it came from the way we were parented, but it's actually a voice that I've internalized because of the way I interpreted things.
14:51
Like, what I've realized in having these conversations now, later in life with my mom is that I.
15:03
You know, the message that I was given was always, do your best.
15:09
And then the message that I internalized was, well, once I got a 95 on that assignment, that's my best, so anything less than that is.
15:19
And then I raised the bar on myself.
15:20
Now I got a 97 on an assignment, so anything less than that is shit.
15:25
And then I, you know, like, raised the.
15:27
I just kept kind of raising the bar on myself because I kept redefining what my best was, quote, unquote.
15:34
And I internalized the most literal version of that story, not realizing that it was wildly unrealistic for that level to be sustainable day in and day out.
15:47
Like, the.
15:48
The way that I've tried to rewrite this story as I get, I don't know, older, more, whatever.
15:56
Wise.
15:57
Sure, we'll call it that, because some days I just don't feel very wise.
16:03
But I.
16:05
Maybe that's that internal narrative.
16:08
Yeah, again.
16:09
Oh, look at that.
16:10
Whoops.
16:10
Yeah.
16:13
Sneaky little.
16:15
Yes, there it is.
16:17
In real time.
16:20
The more that I've sort of learned is that I've tried to rewrite that narrative into.
16:25
Your best is different every day because you are a human being, and sometimes you have a hundred percent, and sometimes you have 80%, and sometimes you have 20%.
16:35
And if you give 20% on your 20% days, then that is your best.
16:40
And it's hard for me to sit with that still.
16:42
Like, I still have a little bit of a, like, reaction to that, but I'm trying to be more realistic with myself because I realized that a lot of the pressure didn't actually come from external people or things.
17:02
Even though I hear other people's voices, it was me.
17:05
It was the stuff that I internalized, the way I interpreted it.
17:09
And so that's been a hard thing to kind of reconcile.
17:14
Yeah, you believe the message and you ran with it.
17:17
I didn't question it.
17:18
I didn't challenge it.
17:19
I just continued to put this, like, insane pressure on Myself.
17:24
Yeah, but what kid does that?
17:25
What kid questions that when they're that little?
17:28
You trust your parents, right?
17:29
Like, you trust what your parents.
17:31
You know, like, you're so innocent and they're guiding you, but you don't know what's right and what's wrong.
17:37
You know, it's hard.
17:39
It's hard for a little kid to question those kinds of things.
17:42
Although I think that the young kids today probably would.
17:47
They're different.
17:48
Different generation.
17:49
That's because they're being raised by our generation.
17:53
Well, maybe your generation, not mine.
17:55
It's really hard to.
17:57
Yeah.
17:58
Break those cycles.
18:00
Yeah.
18:02
So let's talk about this came up for us a lot when we did the Gifts of imperfection in our little book club in Kula.
18:12
That perfectionism is a shield.
18:15
It's a way for us to protect ourselves.
18:19
What is your.
18:22
Or what.
18:22
What is.
18:23
Or what did your perfectionism actually protect you from?
18:29
What were you trying to protect yourself from?
18:31
Even if it was subconscious, I would say retribution.
18:39
Even though, as a very sensitive person, like, especially as a kid, you know, when you're just who you are.
18:49
Right.
18:50
Like, you haven't been programmed and trained.
18:54
This is not acceptable.
18:55
Whatever.
18:56
Disappointing somebody broke my heart.
18:59
Like, hurting them hurt me.
19:03
And so having somebody disappointed in me felt like retribution or having them get upset felt like an attack.
19:17
So I'm not saying, like, I was literally punished for things.
19:23
I mean, having somebody get emotional about something that I did.
19:30
So, yeah, it was about managing other people.
19:33
You felt responsible.
19:35
Yes.
19:35
Yeah.
19:37
We sort of learned that hyper vigilance to manage or try to control our environment.
19:43
And this was one way I can relate to that very deeply.
19:49
Also, as a very sensitive person, that I never wanted the reactions to be because of something I did.
19:56
And I think that actually connects to what I was saying earlier when I said, like, when you receive praise for a job well done, then that's the thing.
20:08
Like, okay, like, I need more of that.
20:10
So I have to continue to be perfect because I don't want the other thing.
20:15
I don't want the disappointment or the anger or the frustration.
20:20
And so I was, like, very much the golden child.
20:23
Like, I was never got in trouble for anything, always got straight A's.
20:27
Like, did give me the rules, and I will follow them to a T just to avoid it was the protection from, like, judgment or rejection.
20:38
Like, anything that wasn't the praise from a job well done felt like rejection.
20:42
Rejection for sure.
20:44
Yeah.
20:45
Yeah.
20:45
Especially.
20:46
Yeah.
20:47
After my parents split up.
20:49
Yeah.
20:49
Because I will have a whole other episode on Abandonment issues.
20:53
But, yeah, avoiding that because rejection is abandonment.
20:58
Right.
20:59
Like, I either want you or I don't want you.
21:02
All the black and white that doesn't actually exist is like, yeah, it's a be perfect not.
21:12
The message I received wasn't, do your best.
21:15
It was, be perfect.
21:17
Oh, bang.
21:22
Yeah.
21:22
So.
21:22
But not in.
21:24
Not.
21:25
It wasn't said.
21:26
It was implied.
21:28
That's how I interpreted it.
21:29
Right.
21:30
Okay.
21:31
So to be clear, the message wasn't, you need to be perfect.
21:35
It was.
21:37
It's what you got out of it.
21:39
Things will be calmer if you're perfect.
21:45
Yep.
21:46
More peaceful.
21:47
Don't.
21:47
Don't rock the boat.
21:48
Don't make waves.
21:49
Just do what I do as I say and everything will be okay.
21:54
Yeah.
21:55
So, you know, for me, I'm sitting here listening to you guys, and I don't know what I was protecting.
22:02
Like, I'm trying to feel into that and.
22:07
Because it didn't make me.
22:09
Because it paralyzed me.
22:12
Right.
22:12
So it didn't make me want to do better or be best at anyone, try and get attention by being the best.
22:20
It was just hiding myself.
22:22
So maybe in that way that was protecting myself, I just hid myself.
22:26
Yeah.
22:27
Instead of let me do really good to get attention.
22:30
Because there was no praising in my family.
22:33
Like, they.
22:34
They didn't do that.
22:35
You know, my mom was loving, you know, and she was affectionate.
22:39
But as far as praise goes, there was no praise.
22:44
Right.
22:44
There was no.
22:44
You're so good at this.
22:45
You're so good at them.
22:46
I mean, there was not.
22:47
I mean, there couldn't be.
22:49
I was the one who was, you know, emotionally taking care of her and all that.
22:52
So, you know, she.
22:55
I didn't get that.
22:56
So, yeah, I.
22:58
I wasn't trying to.
22:59
I was just, I guess, trying to.
23:02
I took that as just her being.
23:07
What's the word?
23:09
Critical.
23:10
She's very critical.
23:12
You know, like, she always had to find something, you know, wrong.
23:17
So I used to.
23:18
Used to make me angry instead.
23:22
Yeah.
23:22
You know what I think, though, that connects to some of the things that we've talked about before with some of the generational differences.
23:30
Right.
23:30
Of keeping up appearances.
23:33
Joneses, like, you can't.
23:35
Don't leave the house looking like that.
23:37
Don't leave the.
23:38
You know, it's like you keep hitting.
23:40
On things that she would say.
23:43
Yeah.
23:45
That.
23:45
It was all about presenting that picture of, like, that sort of.
23:50
That's how perfectionism showed more in my Pleasantville.
23:54
Like, your hair can't have bumps in it, and you're like, your Clothes can't have, like, God forbid you go outside and get a grass stain.
24:02
Like that kind of.
24:04
Yeah.
24:05
Personal appearance was huge for my mom.
24:08
Huge.
24:08
Yeah.
24:09
And just keeping up the outside.
24:12
Yeah.
24:13
Percepts, like controlling other people's perceptions.
24:16
Yeah.
24:16
The perfectionism was a way to control perception.
24:20
And would you say to keep people from actually seeing you?
24:26
Oh, yeah, totally.
24:30
Yeah.
24:31
And I feel like I did that for.
24:33
Oh, my God.
24:34
Until my divorce, probably.
24:37
So it's protecting you.
24:39
Yeah.
24:40
The real you.
24:41
Yeah.
24:43
Oh, I don't like that.
24:44
So hold on, let me sit with it for a second.
24:46
Because I'm.
24:48
I think that's why I was always so afraid to also speak up and show who I was or that I knew anything.
24:54
That's why I didn't think I was smart or intelligent, because I had to hide all of myself.
25:03
I had to perform.
25:04
Yes.
25:04
Yeah.
25:06
Which meant that I couldn't show, like, a more real version.
25:12
I had to check all these boxes.
25:16
Yeah.
25:16
I mean, and even, like.
25:17
And even the appearances, like, for example, like, us now recording.
25:20
Right.
25:22
I mean, I wouldn't go out in public in my glasses and sit here now.
25:25
I'm like, you know what I'm saying?
25:26
I don't care.
25:27
You know?
25:27
Like, I don't care how people are gonna see me.
25:29
This isn't about how I look.
25:31
It's about what we're talking about here.
25:33
Right.
25:34
But I'm not saying it's easy, right.
25:37
Like, it's still a struggle because it's still that messaging of, like, going out in public.
25:42
My mom would.
25:43
And it wasn't like, anything crazy, but my mom would always just look presentable.
25:48
But that even saying presentable in the house like that.
25:52
Yeah, she never said it like that.
25:53
She actually never said it like that.
25:55
But if I was gonna leave the house, she would just say, put a little lipstick on, you know?
25:59
Or, like, you know, I mean, because back in the 90s, that's what we put on, a lip gloss lipstick.
26:04
So put a little lipstick on, you know?
26:06
And I was like, okay, got it.
26:07
But still, the message, I think, is so much bigger than that, right?
26:12
Like, you're like, oh, because you have to look presentable for everyone else.
26:15
Right.
26:16
Like, you don't care what everyone else thinks.
26:19
Right, Exactly.
26:20
And we can't let them see the real us because then we would be rejected, Correct?
26:25
Yes, it is.
26:27
It all does trace back to, like, rejection sensitivity for me.
26:32
And even that idea that, like, my own inner world or my, like, my truest self isn't good enough.
26:42
So I've got to put on this show and play this character, play this role.
26:46
Right.
26:48
And who you are isn't valuable.
26:51
It's what you do.
26:54
Right?
26:55
Oh, yep.
26:56
Yeah.
26:58
Yeah.
27:00
You're saying a lot of things that are making me a little squirmy today.
27:07
Sorry.
27:07
I'm laughing because the haircut's literally squirming.
27:16
They'll see it when we finally post the video recordings of all these, and they'll also get to see.
27:23
To your point, Adriana, I don't know even what's happening on the top of my head today, but this.
27:30
Yeah.
27:30
I mean, the no makeup and glasses.
27:32
Like, I would never walk out of the house like that.
27:34
I mean, I still won't.
27:38
I still won't.
27:39
But, you know, I.
27:40
You know, I used to be where, like, you know, not that I had a full face of makeup on.
27:46
I've never been one to wear makeup.
27:48
Makeup.
27:48
Like, every day I would put.
27:49
Like, for me, it's always like, mascara and lip gloss and that's it.
27:53
And once the lip gloss wears off, it's done.
27:55
I've always been that way.
27:57
Yeah.
27:58
Only when I go out.
27:59
Like, I'm going out to dinner or whatever, party, whatever.
28:02
Then I like to put my makeup on and.
28:05
And get dressed up because it makes me feel good.
28:07
But I've learned.
28:09
Am still learning to just.
28:11
I don't have to.
28:11
I don't have to look like that all the time.
28:13
Like, it's okay.
28:14
And that's why I'm choosing to just show up like this and just be real.
28:19
Because it's not about how I look right now.
28:20
It's about what we're doing.
28:23
My routine takes me all of three minutes.
28:27
Right.
28:30
Moisturizer.
28:32
Just, you know, do something about the bags under my eyes.
28:39
Eyeliner and mascara.
28:40
I'm with you.
28:41
Like, I've never been big into that aspect of it either, but always, like, kind of the look presentable, for sure, like, resonates with me.
28:51
I mean, I don't think there's anything wrong with looking presentable.
28:54
I mean, no, you should care about what you look like.
28:56
And how about how you're presenting yourself?
28:58
Because you do make impressions on people.
29:01
Not that you should care.
29:02
That shouldn't be like, your.
29:03
I think you should do it for yourself.
29:04
What makes you feel good enough for others, but you care about yourself.
29:09
Yeah.
29:09
Yeah.
29:10
The framing of it is different for me now.
29:12
It's more about, like, I'm taking care of myself and I'm doing what I want to do.
29:16
That makes me feel good versus I have to do this because God forbid someone else see it.
29:22
Right, Right.
29:23
I think that that has also been a shift away from, like, that perfectionism.
29:29
It's the motivation behind it is what's changing for me.
29:34
Because I also, I used to say that, like, I like you, I have high standards of myself.
29:43
Like, I.
29:44
I don't want to half ass anything that I do.
29:48
I want to strive for excellence.
29:51
I want to always learn.
29:53
I want to grow, I want to improve.
29:56
And there's a.
29:57
There's a very, like, fine line where that tips out of balance and becomes.
30:04
I don't know how else to say it other than to say, like, it just.
30:07
It turns a bit, like, toxic for me.
30:10
That's when it becomes the paralyzing thing.
30:13
Right.
30:13
Like, when I first launched my own business, I had been a business coach for over 10 years already, and I was like, I got this.
30:25
I know exactly what I need to do to build my little business here, and I'm gonna set up my website and set up all my things.
30:31
And I, like, I shut down because I felt like I need to have everything figured out.
30:39
All the branding needed to be perfect, all the messaging needs to be perfect, all the things need to be perfect.
30:43
And it took me way longer to get started than it ever should have, given how long I had been doing it already for other people, like, how long I had been helping other people do it, and the fact
30:56
that I knew exactly what I needed to do.
30:58
I just couldn't mobilize myself because it wasn't perfect.
31:02
And so I delayed my own success because of that.
31:06
And that was.
31:07
You know, that's a big.
31:10
I won't say that's like a source of regret, but I.
31:13
I think it's a catalyst now for doing things differently, which kind of is a great segue to this.
31:21
This podcast that we launched very imperfectly on purpose because I think this has been like, an active practice in done is better than perfect and that we can continue to improve.
31:40
Um, but I'm curious how this has felt for you guys as we've launched imperfectly as it relates to some of those old stories, old narratives that we hold on to.
31:54
I mean, for me, I.
31:55
I want to say that's actually a relief to do it that way, because like I said before, doing.
32:03
Doing something that I don't know how to do paralyzes me.
32:07
So the fact that I was given permission to do it imperfectly calms my nervous system instead.
32:14
Right.
32:15
Because it's like, okay, I don't know, but I'm Learning.
32:19
And I'm learning as I go along.
32:21
And also, I feel like it's also a great message for people listening to and maybe even permission to give themselves permission to do something imperfectly because we're not doing it perfectly right.
32:35
And we can.
32:36
The whole world can start doing this.
32:38
We can all start doing, just start doing things that we want to do, that maybe we've held ourselves back from doing or try to do it so perfectly right.
32:48
Because I feel like perfectionism isn't just trying to do everything perfectly, because for me it was, don't try it at all.
32:56
Right.
32:57
And I'm sure that there's other people out there like me who also felt paralyzed.
33:03
So, I mean, it's definitely uncomfortable.
33:04
It's definitely uncomfortable because still I have to face that, oh, my God, I don't know how to do that thing.
33:09
And I'm trying anyway, and I'm learning, and you guys are so good to me and helping me along the way.
33:18
But it is a little bit of relief to not do it perfect for me.
33:23
It's very interesting that you say that, because I think I felt the same way.
33:26
Oh, good.
33:28
And also, I think the difference for me in launching this and launching my own business was that I had people to do it with.
33:36
This time when I was doing it on my own, I felt it was just a lot harder because I had to figure everything out alone.
33:48
I was missing, like, the support network and the collaboration that I had experienced previously with teams and in jobs that I was in where I was getting to do similar work, but I was doing it alongside other people
34:01
who were making me better.
34:04
Right.
34:04
Like, or who's.
34:05
We could kind of collaborate on ideas and task lists and things like that.
34:10
And I was able to, for the most part.
34:13
I was very lucky to be in roles and on teams where I was able to, like, really leverage my strengths in doing my own business.
34:22
I had to do it all, which meant I also had to do the things that I found way less fun.
34:28
And that also paralyzed me because I was less familiar with those things.
34:33
And it was more uncomfortable because I knew that I wasn't going to get it perfect or get it right.
34:39
But here, not only has five years passed since I launched my business, so I've learned a lot and grown a lot, but here I had people to do it with.
34:53
And we started with the right tone.
34:57
Right?
34:57
Like, we started with that.
34:59
This isn't going to be perfect.
35:00
It's going to be a little bit messy.
35:01
We have no clue what we're doing right.
35:03
We're just lifting it up as we go and hope for the best.
35:07
And that's interesting because it did feel uncomfortable, but I actually.
35:14
I think it was like, that's what it feels like when you're shedding those old stories, because it's that, like, old instinct, trying to be like, oh, hey, we don't do this.
35:28
I'm like, shut up.
35:29
We do now.
35:29
This is actually what.
35:32
Sit the fuck down.
35:33
And this is what we do now.
35:34
Right.
35:36
I think I feel like I'm a little bit the opposite of you, too.
35:40
Was.
35:40
I was like, let's go faster.
35:43
We're gonna totally something up.
35:45
And then we were gonna learn a ton from it.
35:47
So let's go, let's go, let's go, let's go.
35:51
But the flip side is, I feel like, you know, we did some practice runs.
35:59
Like, we've.
35:59
We've been recording our conversations for, like, six months now.
36:04
Those are not the episodes you heard.
36:06
It was just us trying to get comfortable with being in front of microphone,.
36:10
Turning the microphone on.
36:14
How does the sound?
36:16
Is the microphone on?
36:21
They were awkward as fuck, though, which was weird because we talk to each other this way every single week.
36:29
All of a sudden, we press record, and it's like, we've never spoken before, or we, like, don't even know how to communicate like human beings.
36:36
I was like, what is happening?
36:38
When I think back to, yeah, like, who the fuck is that?
36:44
So, yeah, like, but so, like, the benefit of that really is so you're not getting the messiest version of this, but you're definitely still gonna see a lot of bumps along the way, so.
37:00
Because on the back end now, we're actually doing things right, like, which we weren't doing before.
37:05
We were just talking in front of microphones without doing anything with that stuff.
37:12
Now we're actually doing stuff with it.
37:13
So you're definitely going to see some issues.
37:16
So please let me know.
37:17
Let all of us know if something goes wrong somewhere, because I can tell you I will absolutely make a mistake.
37:25
I know I did yesterday, and I don't think it had an impact, but, you know, we'll see many.
37:34
I'll listen to for.
37:36
What did we do yesterday?
37:37
Truth.
37:38
Truth.
37:40
Just let me know if there are any problems.
37:41
Anyway, so.
37:44
But for me, it's just mostly excitement, I think, because I'm not.
37:51
Yeah.
37:52
I'm not attaching any kind of perfection to it at all.
37:56
And I'm also not attaching any kind of outcome to it.
38:00
Yeah.
38:01
Like, I don't know if anybody's gonna hear these episodes and at the same time, I almost don't care.
38:10
Like, I, I hope people do and I hope that they get something out of it.
38:14
But at the same time, this is just fun.
38:18
Right?
38:19
Like, I get to spend time together and we get to do things together and work in a way that's you.
38:27
Like, I, I've been part of some really awesome teams, but there's still some perfectionism, some guilt, like expectations on myself.
38:43
And here working with you guys, I don't think I really feel that, like the only expectation is that I say what I say I'm going or I do what I say I'm going to do.
38:55
That's it.
38:56
And.
38:56
But that's really more of an agreement.
38:57
Right?
38:57
Like that's me making it and following through on it.
39:01
Other than that, I don't feel like there's any expectation or unrealistic standards that we have with each other, which really takes so much of the pressure off.
39:15
And because, you know, we love each other and we love what we're doing.
39:21
Like, I feel like that gives it another level of freedom to it.
39:29
Yeah.
39:30
I also think that we were really intentional about starting from a place of what we value.
39:36
And perfectionism is not one of our values.
39:39
No.
39:39
Right.
39:40
But general fuckery is.
39:41
Yeah.
39:42
Fuck yeah.
39:43
So let's go.
39:46
Right.
39:46
So it was more for us, I think.
39:50
And maybe that was a bit like, maybe that was an almost subconscious thing that we did that like we actively chose things that were the, I won't say like in opposition to, but like we can't be courageous and
40:04
tell our most true stories and be compassionate and, and also be perfect.
40:12
Like those things can't, like compassion for our whole human selves, can't coexist with perfectionism because perfectionism is rooted in like this sort of judgment or this unrealistic standard.
40:28
Right.
40:28
So we.
40:29
And fear.
40:30
Yes, it is very fear based.
40:32
So I think we actively chose things that were in opposition to this because this is something that we've all been practicing.
40:40
Like, I joke, but I actually think it's quite true that I'm like a recovering perfectionist.
40:45
Like I'm actively trying every single day to be mindful of where those tendencies are showing up and move away from them.
40:54
And we've talked about this before in Kula.
40:59
We had like a really great workshop on it a couple of years ago.
41:04
But I think the thing that has, the way that this has impacted me the most is that combination of the shame spiral.
41:17
What happens in my body when I start carrying that and then how that leads to burnout for me.
41:23
Like, perfectionism ultimately leads to burnout because I overload my to do list or I think something's going to take me a lot less time to accomplish than it actually is.
41:34
And I just sort of set these unrealistic expectations because of those old narratives.
41:40
And it's not something that I'm doing intentionally, but I do have to intentionally do the opposite to unlearn those, like, default settings.
41:53
I'm curious if there's anything in there, if you've ever felt that sort of burnout or that shame spiral or anything that kind of relates back to your perfectionism.
42:05
There's definitely shame for me and shame in not trying.
42:10
Shame in not at least trying, right?
42:12
Like, when I'm frozen, I would rather just escape, do, but do anything but focus on that.
42:22
Like, I'm.
42:23
I'm not gonna do that.
42:24
And then I feel shame about it, you know, then.
42:28
Because I procrastinate on doing things that make me so uncomfortable because I don't know how to do them.
42:35
And, you know, I feel like also a little bit of codependence comes to play in that, right?
42:40
Because it's almost like I want someone to hold my hand while I do it.
42:45
So there's shame about that too, right?
42:46
Because it's.
42:47
Maybe it's not codependence, but maybe it's that I have a hard time asking for help.
42:53
And there's nothing wrong with asking for help to do something you don't know how to do.
42:57
Well, that's.
42:58
I think that's so closely related to perfectionism, though, right?
43:01
Like, you should just be able to do this, right?
43:03
You should just be able to figure this out.
43:05
You should know the right way.
43:06
Like, don't ask me.
43:08
Meanwhile, who the fuck.
43:10
Who the on earth knows how to do everything?
43:12
Nobody.
43:13
That person.
43:13
Nobody.
43:14
Nobody, Right?
43:16
So it's okay that you don't know how to do something because you don't know.
43:20
And so I feel like I would freeze at the thought of having to do something.
43:24
I would just procrastinate.
43:25
I would feel shame about that, and then I would feel shame about, like, having to ask for help.
43:31
And I almost wanted, like, someone to hold my hands, but it's.
43:35
Maybe it's not necessarily holding my hand, but just that I.
43:38
It's okay to ask for help and not feel shame about that.
43:42
Interesting.
43:45
Trying to carry it all is definitely part of what leads to my burnout.
43:48
When I.
43:49
Like when I get to that place, it's trying to carry it all yeah.
43:54
And then, you know, and then I feel shitty because I'm not really doing something that I really want to do or that is important to me because I'm just.
44:05
I'm holding myself back.
44:08
Well, I mean, if you think about getting to that point of, like, burnout too, or, like, where you're completely shut down.
44:15
If I felt shitty when I wasn't completing all the things on my to do list, imagine how shitty I feel when I'm completing absolutely nothing.
44:22
Yeah.
44:22
Because I'm so shut down and burnt out that I physically can't.
44:27
Right.
44:28
Mentally can't.
44:30
So I never got to the burnout, though.
44:31
I would just shut down.
44:32
The shame spiral.
44:34
Yeah.
44:35
Just.
44:35
Either way, it's real deep.
44:38
Yeah.
44:40
Yeah.
44:40
The shedding on yourself is very, very big.
44:46
Right.
44:47
I know.
44:49
You know, I'm pretty smart.
44:52
I can figure stuff out, like, in high standards, especially for myself.
45:00
I'm the most competitive with myself, like, a thousand percent.
45:05
My expectations for myself are higher than anybody else.
45:08
Um, so.
45:12
Hi.
45:12
Perfectionism.
45:13
Nice to meet you.
45:14
I'm super good at telling other people to check their unrealistic expectations and I am terrible at checking my own unrealistic expectations of myself.
45:22
Yeah, I can relate to that too.
45:24
Yeah.
45:25
So, yeah.
45:26
The spiral, the negative voice.
45:28
Oh, yeah.
45:29
Gets pretty loud when I can't figure something out.
45:33
Like, I mean, it's.
45:36
That is the nastiest bitch in my head.
45:38
Like, for real.
45:40
I'm not kidding.
45:41
Because she's really mean.
45:44
I mean, like, she's really mean.
45:48
She says really, really nasty stuff.
45:50
And she creeps in very quietly now because I'm pretty good at recognizing it.
45:57
So now it's.
45:58
She rides in on frustration, like, and, like, hides underneath it.
46:04
When I start getting frustrated and I can't figure something out on my own.
46:09
She.
46:10
She found another way to get in.
46:12
She.
46:12
Yeah, she's like, Trojan horses are way right in there.
46:17
Frustration, sneaky.
46:19
And like, to figure this out.
46:23
Yeah.
46:24
Oh, no, look out.
46:26
Not nearly as smart as you think you are.
46:29
So, like, it's fair.
46:32
It's so subtle now that it kind of.
46:37
When she's loud, it's easy.
46:38
I'm like, hi, thank you for visiting.
46:41
Goodbye.
46:43
Yeah, when it's sneaky, that's really tough because I'm already in the spiral when I recognize it.
46:50
And then it's super hard to get out of.
46:54
But I forgot what I was gonna say.
47:00
I'll be imperfect there.
47:04
Alrighty, then.
47:04
I won't even edit that part out.
47:06
No.
47:06
Yeah, don't.
47:07
Then we know we're practicing what we preach, let's say, because this is the thing we talked about, this encourage, because perfectionism came up a lot encourage.
47:19
This is the thing that.
47:20
That feels rebellious to me.
47:23
It's allowing the imperfections, allowing that vulnerability to be seen.
47:27
And so that, for me, is the part that feels like the rebellion.
47:34
But where, I guess, where are you actively practicing this and how.
47:41
In what, even the smallest of ways?
47:44
Because we also talked in the courage episode about more like ordinary daily small acts of courage.
47:52
Where are you showing up in that way to.
47:55
To try to rewrite this story?
47:58
Well, like I said before, showing up to record like this with no makeup on and my glasses, my hair in a ponytail, and I care what I'm going to look like, you know, so I think that that's part
48:14
of it.
48:17
And then also, as we go through this, all the process that, the whole process that we have to go through that is required for the podcast, that I do as much as I can, and then I ask for
48:29
help when I can't, right.
48:31
I ask, you know, either one of you to help me through something that.
48:35
When I can't do it myself, right?
48:38
When I don't understand something, even though it feels extremely uncomfortable because you speak,.
48:43
You speak like you're the only person who hasn't launched a podcast before.
48:47
And.
48:47
And you're the only person who doesn't know what you're doing.
48:49
None of us know what the we're doing reminder, right?
48:52
No, I do figure it out.
48:55
True.
48:55
But you guys know so much more on some of the back end stuff, like, you understand a little more on the back end stuff where I am completely have no clue.
49:03
Right?
49:04
Like, at least you guys have built websites, not besties.
49:07
That's.
49:07
And that's okay, I said it again.
49:09
Human technology are not besties exactly.
49:12
Friends.
49:13
Exactly.
49:13
So you guys, the technology part aspect of it a little more where I'm like, I have no clue what you're talking about.
49:20
I said, I don't even know what that means, you know, and that is very triggering for me.
49:25
You know, in those moments, I feel like that voice comes back of, you're dumb and you don't know.
49:31
You know, it's so interesting.
49:33
I never really, like, thought about that because it's true that, like, Stacy and I also have never used this software before and we've never done these things before.
49:41
Like, we're all the same.
49:42
But I can see the pattern now of, like, I'm just clicking around and maybe breaking some shit until I figure it out.
49:51
And you're Like, I'm just not going to touch anything until I know that I'm not going to break it.
49:55
Right.
49:56
And that's.
49:56
Yes.
49:57
Because I don't know what I'm doing.
49:59
That's a really.
49:59
You see how it comes, right?
50:01
Manifestation of those patterns.
50:03
Yeah, I don't know.
50:04
I don't know.
50:05
So I'm just not going to touch it because I have no idea.
50:08
And I'm like, I can do it.
50:10
Click, right.
50:10
Okay.
50:11
Yeah.
50:11
Control Z.
50:12
Control Z.
50:12
Control Z.
50:15
No, I mean, even.
50:16
Even just doing like the.
50:18
The.
50:18
Our.
50:19
Our own pages.
50:19
The other day, I messed something.
50:21
I'm like.
50:21
I'm like, I can't.
50:22
I don't even know how to figure this out and how to get back to it.
50:24
I tried.
50:25
I clicked where I could and I'm like, no.
50:26
So, you know, you, either one of you will have to help me.
50:29
We'll figure it out.
50:30
It's okay.
50:31
So, yeah, we'll get it all sorted.
50:33
Worst case scenario, we start over.
50:35
I mean, like, literally, that's like we did with the podcast, right?
50:38
Like, we recorded an episode and it disappeared.
50:43
It's in the ether somewhere.
50:44
We have no idea where was it meant to be heard?
50:47
Exactly.
50:48
And Eric is like, oh, my God, I'm so sorry.
50:51
I have no idea what happened.
50:52
And Adriana are like, whatever, we'll record it again.
50:55
Like, who the fuck cares?
50:57
Like, did we pay you a million dollars to not take this over?
51:02
That old pattern, though, of.
51:04
I felt like I let you down.
51:05
I felt like I disappeared.
51:06
I would disappoint you in some way because we had to do that work.
51:10
Exactly.
51:11
Thing that we're talking about.
51:12
Yeah, but it's funny that you say that, Erica, too, because that's how I feel.
51:16
That's how I feel.
51:17
I feel like I'm letting you guys down, that I don't know how to do anything and that I.
51:21
In my head, I'm telling myself, destroyed.
51:23
That you guys are going to get frustrated with me because I don't know something, you know, not so much because I don't know something because I'm not trying.
51:31
I don't know.
51:32
So it's definitely that comes up, you know, it's like, it's definitely like very, very triggering.
51:40
And I.
51:40
I've noticed that lately.
51:42
And I'm like, okay.
51:43
I'm like, but this is good.
51:43
It's coming out to work through it.
51:47
But yeah, God, it's a.
51:50
I don't mean.
51:50
God, I mean.
51:54
I mean, the pattern is a.
51:56
What I'm saying.
51:56
Yeah, yeah.
52:01
Did we answer the question.
52:02
I don't remember what makes it rebellious.
52:06
Yeah, well, it's that.
52:08
It's the.
52:09
It's the unlearning, the sitting with the discomfort of doing things imperfectly, I think is the punchline that we all feel kind of similar theme.
52:20
You know what.
52:20
And also, because I feel like I.
52:24
As uncomfortable as it is, I want to feel.
52:27
Face that.
52:27
Because this is.
52:29
Because I'm doing that for the podcast.
52:32
Right.
52:32
Like, I'm doing it for something that I'm excited about.
52:35
Right.
52:35
That I'm excited to do, that I'm excited to do with you guys.
52:38
So it's like, well, I'm not doing it for anyone else, for me.
52:42
Right.
52:43
Like,.
52:45
But the.
52:46
The intrinsic motivation is enough of a driver.
52:50
Right.
52:50
To push through, like, the discomfort of doing something imperfectly.
52:54
And I mean, we've already done so many things to improve, like, our processes.
53:01
We got on this Morning, 11 episodes in and decided, you know, let's switch up the logo a little bit.
53:10
Like, we're just.
53:11
It's a.
53:11
It's a process of, like, continual improvement, which actually feels so much better to me than anything else I've ever started.
53:19
Yeah.
53:20
Yeah.
53:20
Than to have had it all figured out before we got started.
53:23
Yeah.
53:24
Because we wouldn't have recorded a.
53:26
An episode at this point.
53:27
You'd be hearing this in 2028.
53:29
Like, that's.
53:31
If you were lucky.
53:33
Exactly.
53:34
I think.
53:34
But that's.
53:35
Yeah.
53:35
For me, it's kind of the same.
53:37
Right.
53:37
Like, I feel like.
53:40
Let's see if I'm thinking about, like, some of the podcasts I listen to.
53:44
Right.
53:44
Like, they're very established.
53:47
Right.
53:48
Like, they're produced.
53:50
They're like, there's a lot of money behind them, a lot of experience, a lot of all of that stuff.
53:58
So, you know, when I think about what we're doing, I'm like, what the.
54:04
Let's try some and see what happens.
54:07
And we're not trying to be them.
54:09
No.
54:09
Well, right.
54:10
But.
54:10
But that feels rebellious.
54:11
Like, put yourself out there.
54:14
Not just.
54:16
Yeah.
54:17
Not just on the same platforms.
54:19
Right.
54:20
A lot.
54:20
You know, exactly, exactly.
54:22
Not.
54:22
Not just in public, but also the things that we're talking about, like, that is not going to be perfect.
54:29
It's that the.
54:31
The.
54:31
That we end up talking about is gonna be messy.
54:34
Oh, my God.
54:35
Like, I'm still a total mess.
54:39
My life is, like, very interesting.
54:45
So, like.
54:47
And, you know, what's that?
54:49
What's.
54:49
Isn't there a line from Ted Lasso your work in progress?
54:54
Yes, that's.
54:55
It That's.
54:55
I like that better.
54:57
Yes.
55:00
Perfectionism just sounds like an anchor that's going to drown me right now, like, because I don't think I could do anything perfectly right now.
55:15
So.
55:16
Yeah.
55:18
So we need to go a bit easier on ourselves.
55:21
I also think that the world is fucking tired of fucking perfectionism, Right?
55:27
Because it's perfectionism everywhere.
55:28
You fucking turn about everything, every aspect of life, and it's like, I think everyone's tired.
55:34
I think people just want real, like, authenticity.
55:37
Real shit.
55:38
Like.
55:41
You.
55:41
That's a relief because.
55:43
Yeah, yeah, I'm with you.
55:45
I think for me, it came to a, like, a bit of an internal breaking point where I was like, okay, well, this standard is no longer realistic and sustainable, so we need to set more realistic and sustainable standards
55:56
for ourselves and then just hope for the best.
56:02
Right?
56:03
So that's it.
56:04
I think maybe the.
56:06
The encouragement is learning to sit with the discomfort long enough to begin to rewrite the old narratives because we know they're there.
56:17
We are tired of them.
56:21
I'm tired.
56:24
But it is a process that takes a lot of practice and a lot of patience.
56:31
So here we are.
56:31
Yeah, yeah.
56:34
Worth it, though.
56:35
It's worth it.
56:35
Oh, yeah.
56:37
So let's give ourselves permissions to say, that bar is too high for how tired I am right now.
56:45
So we're just gonna be uncomfortable with the not reaching that bar.
56:50
Yeah, yeah.
56:52
And see what happens.
56:56
I feel like before we close, I'm gonna put you on the spot for a second, Adriana, because I feel like this is a good opportunity to talk about your soul reclamation circle.
57:10
Oh.
57:11
About how we're kind of reclaiming these parts of ourselves in this little group that you've started in Kula.
57:18
So, yeah, so I start.
57:21
I.
57:22
You know, I.
57:23
When I first started thinking about what I wanted the circle to be, it's kind of like we do here.
57:29
I love having conversations.
57:31
Right.
57:31
I feel like having other people's perspectives and insights are so helpful.
57:39
They have helped me tremendously in my growth.
57:41
Right.
57:42
Just understanding myself and just seeing different points of views.
57:47
And I wanted to start a circle doing that for whoever wanted to join and.
57:56
And have those conversations in Kula.
57:58
And I wanted to be a safe space where, you know, again, it's not about.
58:06
I wasn't.
58:06
I wasn't teaching anything.
58:08
I wasn't there being an expert on anything.
58:10
I'm just facilitating it.
58:13
I'm just saying, you know, whoever raised their hands, you can speak now.
58:18
You know what I mean?
58:19
I'm not going in there prepared with My answers to the questions that I'm bringing on the topic.
58:24
I'm thinking about my answers as everyone is at the same time.
58:29
And I just wanted it to feel like a cozy living room, sitting on the couch, having a chat with my friends.
58:36
Like, that's how I wanted it to feel.
58:39
And hopefully everyone that has joined and will join will get something out of it and, you know, just like I have in the past.
58:51
So that's really why I wanted to facilitate it, because it's been so helpful for me, so I wanted to do the same for others.
58:59
Yeah.
59:00
And I think there's so much power.
59:01
It's kind of the reason that we did this.
59:05
Right.
59:06
We say it in our intro.
59:07
We.
59:08
These stories don't often get spoken out loud or these parts of ourselves, we don't allow them to be seen, probably because of a lot of what we talked about in this episode.
59:16
But part of reclaiming our sovereignty or reclaiming your soul is allowing these parts of yourselves to be vocalized, to be like, out in the open, but in a place like it, within a safe container.
59:31
Correct.
59:31
You're creating, like a safe container for those things.
59:34
So if you haven't already, Kula, our online community is free to join.
59:40
And you can join Adriana's Soul Reclamation Circle.
59:44
Yes, please.
59:45
Every other Monday at 5:00 clock Eastern.
59:47
Every other Monday.
59:48
Yes.
59:49
So come on in.
59:51
5:30 5:30pm Eastern.
59:53
Oh, 5:30, sorry, 5:30.
59:54
That's okay.
59:55
Yeah, no, I would.
59:57
I would love for more people to join.
59:59
I feel like there's probably a lot of people who are feeling alone in what they're feeling and what they're going through and maybe don't know where to turn.
1:00:12
And.
1:00:14
If you feel called, Kula is an amazing space for that.
1:00:19
And the circle is also great because you can come join.
1:00:22
You can speak if you want to.
1:00:24
You don't have to speak if you don't want to.
1:00:26
You know, there's no pressure at all.
1:00:28
Yeah.
1:00:30
So come on in.
1:00:31
We'd love to see you there in either the Soul Reclamation Circle or some of our other hula events.
1:00:38
Our schedule is a bit lighter for the summer, but we are going to be picking some things up and adding a bit more come the fall.
1:00:50
But in the meantime, you can always just reach out to someone, have a conversation, post.
1:00:58
Absolutely.
1:00:59
Post on our feeds and someone will, you know, respond and engage.
1:01:03
At the very least, it's a.
1:01:05
It's a place where you can be your most authentic self and others will just kind of bear witness.
1:01:12
I think sometimes that's the most powerful thing about having that community.
1:01:17
Right.
1:01:17
Just being able to be seen and heard and understood.
1:01:22
So we'd love for you all to join us there because we'd love for opportunities to interact.
1:01:29
Yeah.
1:01:30
With this instead of just.
1:01:34
Yes.
1:01:34
In front of our microphones on a model.
1:01:36
Right.
1:01:37
Come talk to us.
1:01:38
Come.
1:01:38
Yeah.
1:01:38
We want to hear your stories.
1:01:40
We want to create a much broader community from this where we can all, you know, kind of provide this kind of space for each other more often.
1:01:50
So we'd love to see you in there.
1:01:52
There will be a link in the show notes for you to join Gula if you want to come in.
1:02:01
So I think any other closing thoughts or words?
1:02:05
Perfection is boring.
1:02:08
Let's have a bit more fun.
1:02:09
It's a myth and it's boring.
1:02:13
Yeah.
1:02:14
So let's not do that anymore.
1:02:17
Let's just definitely are what make us beautiful.
1:02:21
Oh, I love that.
1:02:23
Right.
1:02:23
And you know what?
1:02:24
We don't want to be like everyone else.
1:02:26
Right.
1:02:26
Everyone's different.
1:02:28
So I feel like being perfect puts you in a box that you have to be like everyone else and we don't have to be.
1:02:35
Exactly.
1:02:36
Creates more rules.
1:02:37
Right.
1:02:38
Rules.
1:02:39
No rules.
1:02:41
Who made the rules?
1:02:44
Let's be rebels.
1:02:45
Let's break the rules.
1:02:46
Exactly.
1:02:50
All right.
1:02:50
Love you guys.
1:02:51
I love you.
1:02:52
Thank you so much.
1:02:53
I'll see you in a couple of weeks.
1:02:55
Bye.