Latest / Worldview Matters With David Fiorazo / Holly Pivec: Discerning Paula White, NAR, & The New White House Faith Office

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Holly Pivec: Discerning Paula White, NAR, & The New White House Faith Office · Worldview Matters With David Fiorazo

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  You better set somebody and say God's getting ready to give me access.
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  We're everywhere I go God rules.
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  The Lord has it is done.
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  The Lord has it is done.
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  The Lord says it is done.
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  And she starts going around, and around, and around.
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  We command all 16 website amic frecumsthees to miscarry right now.
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  We declare that anything has been conceived in Satanic wounds.
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  The little miscarried Africa right now, Africa right now, Africa right now.
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  I had every right and authority to declare the White House as holy ground
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  because I was standing there and where I stand is holy.
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  Welcome to World View Matters, discussing controversial issues,
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  discerning current events, defending biblical Christianity.
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  No topic off-limits.
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  And now, here's your host, David Firazzo.
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  Well friends, welcome by that opening.
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  You know what we are going to be talking about or maybe you don't.
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  And that's why we should be concerned as the body of Christ in America.
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  That was Paula White.
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  And I'm going to bring in an expert on the NAR and reckless Christianity is one of her books.
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  Very important book to get.
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  Also a new apostolic reformation.
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  She's the author of many of these great books that the body of Christ needs to understand.
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  And who am I talking to?
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  Author and new podcaster, Holly Pivic, sister, welcome.
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  Good to see you.
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  Thank you David.
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  It's always great to be talking with you again.
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  Thanks for having me on.
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  You're most welcome.
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  Before we get to the topic at hand and why Christians should be concerned.
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  We did a podcast, several podcasts with you and Doug.
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  Doug, I have your co-author of reckless Christianity.
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  There it is.
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  We did two episodes.
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  Friends, if you want to go to worldviewmatters.tv and listen to that or watch that,
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  worldviewmatters.tv, just enter Holly Pivic, P-I-V-E-C,
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  in the search and those two episodes will come up plus a couple of this we did with Holly.
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  So you've got, first of all, reckless Christianity.
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  Doing very well, great reviews on Amazon, a lot of five star reviews.
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  You talk about a lot of things, Bethel and the NAR and these movements that Christians maybe aren't aware of,
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  but have saturated our culture before we get to Paula White.
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  Holly, why should we be concerned about that?
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  Well, the new Apostolic Reformation, or it's often called NAR or NAR for short,
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  is a very popular global movement.
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  It's infiltrated churches throughout the United States, around the world.
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  And it's a movement among churches that are seeking to bring heaven to earth.
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  And they believe that the way to do that is by submitting to the authority of men and women who claim to be present-day apostles and prophets,
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  including Paula White King, who we'll be talking about later.
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  By submitting to their authority, these apostles and prophets claim they're giving critical new revelation that the church that all Christians need in order to develop supernatural powers,
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  to defeat these demonic principalities that they believe are ruling over cities and nations,
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  and to bring God's kingdom to earth and to really bring heaven to earth.
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  By bringing heaven to earth, what they mean is eradicate all sickness, all disease, all poverty, literally to make heaven mirror heaven.
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  So anything that's not found in heaven should not be found on earth.
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  And so this movement, as I said, has just been infiltrating churches.
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  Bethel Church, you mentioned, and Reading California is one of the most popular churches in this movement with global influence.
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  And there are many others as well that are led by these men and women claiming to be present-day apostles and prophets.
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  On earth as it is in heaven, right?
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  So it's not biblical. We could not have heaven on earth.
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  I guess I don't understand, and this also leads to those who are about the Seven Mountains, right?
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  I believe that we're supposed to take control, and Christians are supposed to have dominion over every area now.
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  Let's separate the fact that we as Christians should be salt and light and should be influencing anywhere we live,
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  our culture for Christ, for righteousness, the light of Christ, sharing the gospel, making disciples, hopefully exposing deeds of darkness.
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  But that doesn't mean we are too control, nor could we.
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  I mean, that's up to God, especially how someone else's heart responds to the gospel.
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  That's up to God. And so I guess, Holly, how can you help people understand how someone can believe so strongly in this idea that Christians should overtake our country or our culture?
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  Well, the people in this movement believe in dominion theology. They believe that the church is supposed to have dominion over the earth.
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  They actually believe, though, we'll be this great in-time revival, where over a billion people will convert to belief in Christ, and through that,
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  there will be a global awakening, and God's kingdom will come to earth.
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  And the Seven Mountain Mandate you mentioned is a revelation that many prophets in this movement claim to have received from God,
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  that the way the church is to take dominion of the earth is by taking control of the seven major societal institutions.
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  So that would be politics, business, media, religion, family, the arts, and education.
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  Yes, thank you. And they believe that there are these high-ranking demonic principalities that are ruling over these institutions and that the apostles alone have the authority, apostles like Paula White,
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  Cain, alone have the authority to cast out the high-ranking demons that are believed to be ruling over these institutions.
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  And then only then will Christians, the gospel will be able to go forth with effectiveness. Christians will be able to change society and bring God's kingdom to earth.
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  And so a lot of people believe that Paula White, Cain's appointment by President Trump to lead the White House Faith Office,
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  he newly created White House Faith Office that he created by executive order.
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  A lot of people see that in this movement see that as a way for the Seven Mountain Mandate to become enacted because she is part of this movement.
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  And so it gives access to all of these other leaders, apostles and prophets in this movement to the White House who would seek to come in with that agenda.
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  Don't we have to say apostles and prophets when we talk about these people?
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  So why are we talking about this? We opened up the show today with all those clips and there's many, many more out there, but that was a courtesy of Todd Freel and wretched radio.
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  Paula White saying what she was saying and jumping around, taking authority, whatever else.
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  But why are we talking about this friends? Over on your website, Holly Pivic, you wrote a blog on February 8th, it says,
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  it is the leader of the new White House Faith Office, Paula White, Cain and AR.
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  And then you go in, you proceed to answer that question and you share an excerpt from reckless Christianity.
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  Well, I want to go back one day to February 7th, 2025, where President Donald Trump announced appointments to the White House Faith Office.
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  I'm just going to read and let you share after I read this Holly.
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  It says, Pastor Paula White Cain will return to the White House as a special government employee and senior advisor of the newly created White House Faith Office.
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  In the last 40 years, White Cain has expanded her influence globally in almost 200 countries, ministering, fighting for religious freedom and humanitarian rights and advocating for the voiceless.
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  She is the founder and president of Paula White Ministries and National Faith Advisory Board.
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  She is president of City Destiny and the overseer and a teaching pastor at Story Life Church in Florida.
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  Paula previously served as an advisor to President Trump in the White House Faith and Opportunity initiative.
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  She also served as Chairwoman of the Evangelical Advisory Board in 2016.
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  Paula is a celebrated New York Times bestselling author, teacher, beloved wife, mother grandmother, mentor, popular TV personality and spirit led preacher of God's word.
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  She is married to the legendary singer, songwriter Jonathan Cain of the iconic rock and roll Hall of Fame band journey.
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  And I read that right off the White House website at whitehouse.gov.
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  So Holly, we don't know as we talked before we got on the podcast today with you.
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  Exactly how much of Donald Trump's ear Paula White has because there are a lot of faith leaders, a lot of pastors coming and going out of the White House.
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  And but we should be concerned share a little bit more about why you decided to put that blog up and that excerpt from reckless Christianity about Paula White and your concerns, please.
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  Yes, well, a lot of people knew already that Paula White Cain was a tele evangelist, make a church pastor, even a prosperity preacher.
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  But what they didn't know is her connections. They weren't aware of her connections with this new apostolic Reformation movement.
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  And I was aware of that because I was invited back in 2017 to speak at a panel for the Religion News Association at their annual conference in Nashville, Tennessee.
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  And that is a conference where religion writers from all the major media outlets come and I was speaking, I actually spoke with Paula White Cain on that panel and another and a profit in this movement named James Gaul, a profit in this movement.
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  And we were talking about this movement, the new apostolic Reformation. And so I actually met her there and we were informing reporters, I was informing them of the dangers of this movement.
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  And they were invited as representatives of this movement to speak to this panel of news reporters.
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  But what's important for people to realize is her teachings, her beliefs do not, they're not in the NAR beliefs in general are not just Pentecostal charismatic teachings.
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  This is not a critique of Pentecostal charismatic beliefs. Our books are not critiques of that. It's specifically a critique of new apostolic Reformation teachings, which are very extreme and even have many Pentecostals and Charismatics concerned because they are so extreme and they're causing so much division and damage and churches and even Pentecostal and Charismatics.
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  And so when I wrote this article on my blog, letting people know about Paula White Cain's connections with this movement, I got some pushback from some of my readers who said, you know, you should just be happy that there's a Christian in this faith office and representing us and that President Trump even created this faith office.
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  And we shouldn't nitpick over theology. But what people need to realize is just because someone claims to represent Christianity doesn't mean they represent or accurately represent biblical Christianity.
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  And Paula White Cain is an example of that and her participation in this NAR movement being an apostle in this movement.
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  She brings in many people with her who are also part of this movement into the White House. And so, so, you know, you see these pictures online or President Trump and he's surrounded with all these faith leaders that are laying hands on him and praying for him.
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  And like in our conversation earlier before I came on, we talked about how that can be encouraging to see that. But then when you see that many of those faces are actually, you know, people who are leaders in this new apostolic reformation movement, that's important to realize because Christians need to be more discerning and realize just because someone claims to represent Christianity doesn't mean that they're actually doing so.
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  Fact check true. That's why we played, like I said, there's so many more clips we could play friends and we're going to take a brief pause in a minute with Holly, but we're going to come back. We've got another clip of Paula White and some things that she was speaking teaching. And it's just that we should be concerned. And yes, going back to that comment or the comments that we often get just be thankful that, yeah, I'm glad President Trump isn't listening to the
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  leaders of Islam or the Muslim brotherhood. You know, I'm glad he's not listening to some radicals, you know, some occult driven people or whatever. But we've got to get back to biblical Christianity and understand, you know, the doctrines and theologies. It's very important to discern these things. So yeah, we're not being nitpicky. We are being very careful and discerning as believers as we should.
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  The Apostle Paul warns about and Peter and Jude contending for the faith. Before we take a brief pause, Holly, you've got a brand new, and I mean brand new podcast. So your YouTube channel is Holly Pivic official.
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  Is that the best place to go to subscribe and then get your podcaster? Can they can they hear it? Can they watch it elsewhere? Go ahead. Yeah, they can subscribe there. If they would like to watch the video or if they prefer to listen to audio, they can go to Spotify, Apple, podcast, pod being some of those other audio platforms.
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  Awesome. Awesome. So we're going to take a brief pause. We'll be right back with a lot more on World View Matters.
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  Get free activation now with promo code David.
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  So Holly Pivic is with us. And again, her website Holly Pivic.com, you can get that blog on Paula White and her excerpt from the excellent book, reckless Christianity.
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  She's helping Christians understand what to look for and what to be concerned about. So Jeff, go ahead and play that clip.
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  I saw it very distinctly. The color was like a goldish, but it was a yellowish goldish. And then I saw the earth for a moment and they brought me back and he put me in certain places, one being the White House, one being certain continents.
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  So she was before the throne of God, she saw the face of God, but not clearly apparently God gave her a mantle. And one of those mantles, I guess now that he placed her in the White House, these are the things that we need to be concerned about.
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  I would love to get your reaction to that before we go on, Holly.
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  Yeah, well, these are common claims in the NAR movement that that people are, you know, through some kind of vision or something they're transported to different locations where they can see things, different places, geographical regions, even time period sometimes.
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  And where they receive revelation from God or they go to heaven, these are all very common claims in the movement. And one thing earlier, I noticed in one of the videos you showed, I think she said something like I declared the White House Holy Ground. I think that's, I might have that a little wrong, but she talked about declaring.
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  And that's a very common teaching in this movement, which is that apostles have the authority to make declarations, apostolic declarations, and these are speaking words that actually create reality through the spoken words.
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  And so, but people who aren't aware of these, the movement's teachings might, might miss these things if they're not familiar with the language.
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  So, what are some things? Obviously, let's just say before I ask this next question, we need to be in prayer for President Trump and his administration.
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  There are a lot of believers in his new cabinet, a lot of great men and women of God, but we do need to pray for wisdom for the president. And we are called to pray for our government leaders and officials.
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  So, that's obviously very scriptural. It's biblical. It's a New Testament. Please pray, friends. And don't look down your nose at Trump for appointing someone like Paula White.
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  We don't know where his faith is. We don't know where his heart is. We know he's been, the gospel has been shared with him. We know he has somewhat of an understanding of the biblical worldview.
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  And he also believes that he was saved by God for such a time as this to help America. Very interesting that he believes that, but he could go the wrong direction if he has too many people like a Paula White, you know, talking to him about maybe God's given him a mantle or whatever.
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  So, Holly, your thoughts on that, just being discerning praying for wisdom for our president and the administration and what else to be concerned about.
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  Yeah, absolutely. I agree that we need to pray for our president. I do think a lot of, you know, a lot of the teachers that he surrounded himself with are prosperity teachers and the prosperity gospel is a core part of the NAR movement.
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  Because NAR, they teach that that the way in order to be able to take the minion of the earth, the church needs to have vast financial resources to build God's kingdom on earth. And they believe that the believers, you know, being rich and prosperous will enable that to happen.
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  So, it is interesting to think about President Trump's, you know, importance places on on wealth and money and these things and surrounding himself with these prosperity teachers.
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  I wonder if that's part of the draw, but yeah, I can't remember the second part of your question.
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  Oh, well, just what should we looking ahead now? Because I see a lot of pictures on social media of a lot of pastors in the Oval Office. I mean, a dozen or more sometimes reaching out or a few of them praying over President Trump, which is wonderful.
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  But again, who are all these people? We don't know exactly who everyone is and how much influence they have over the president. So go ahead and share your thoughts on that.
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  Right. Well, I think you're right. We don't know exactly how much influence they have over him. But one thing that's important to realize is that they are representing a Christianity for our nation.
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  And so, like I talked about earlier, if they are the face of Christianity for our nation and they aren't representing biblical Christianity, then that can be a very dangerous thing.
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  And so, it's just important for people to just not assume because that somebody is claiming to be a Christian, but to dig deeper to, you know, to be aware of these movements like the New Apostolic Reformation Movement and these other dangerous movements so that they can be more discerning.
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  So again, friends, why do we talk about this because on the White House website and we know from if you've been paying attention and watching the developments, which a lot of it has been encouraging what the Trump administration is doing almost on every level, almost.
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  You're not going to agree with everything. He's not a perfect man. And nor are all the people in his cabinet, but it says he appointed Paula White as the senior advisor of the newly created White House Faith Office.
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  So, she's a senior advisor. She must have some say or some influence here. Now, let me go over to your blog, Holly, and let you expound.
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  It says in 2019 that Paula White would pass direct leadership of her church, City of Destiny in Florida, and that you should pass that on to her son, Brad Knight.
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  She would then function as a governing apostle over the church. However, she said she would not adopt the title apostle since a title like that may be misunderstood.
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  She favored instead the designation oversight pastor, but moments after her announcement, her son told her publicly, you are truly an apostle.
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  And the quicker that people realize that God has granted you favor and authority and unique favor and authority, the better off they'll be, end quote.
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  Holly, something to be concerned about there, isn't there?
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  Yeah, that's one thing that people really need to be aware of in this movement is that many people will not directly refer to themselves as an apostle because they know that it's a controversial term, especially now that there's been so much exposure of this new Apostolic Reformation movement.
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  And so by what they do is they will allow other people to call them an apostle and they'll hint and they'll use buzzwords and loaded language that insiders in the movement realize they're calling themselves an apostle, but you have to kind of be an insider to know it or they'll let other people refer to them as apostles.
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  And even Bill Johnson about the church and reading, he doesn't typically refer to himself as an apostle, but those around him do and he allows them to do that.
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  So this is a tactic that leaders in this movement will will do.
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  And so people just need to be aware of that. And another thing to be aware of is even earlier than 2019 back in 2012.
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  The White King gave a message and it can still be found on YouTube.
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  And she was talking about how we're in a season of Apostolic Reformation and she talks about there how for about the past two and a half years.
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  So this was in 2012. So that means going back to like 2009, 2010, she said she started really focusing on the message of the Apostolic and how it's important to have apostles and governing apostles.
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  And how they're key to a reformation that's happening in the church.
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  And so and she describes these she says what she believes about apostles that they have governing authority that they have basically miraculous ability that others don't have in order to that their followers can experience like miraculous breakthroughs in their life.
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  And she says, you know, she tells the people in their church, you know, because they've submitted to the authority of an apostle, they have access to miraculous breakthrough because of that.
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  And so she she lays out her views even more on that even going back to 2012.
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  So we've got two minutes left with you, Holly Pivic and your first new podcast was called discerning the cons, cults and counterfeits, the two prongs of biblical discernment.
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  And people can follow you on YouTube and watch those episodes there.
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  What are you going to be doing coming up?
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  Can you tease a few of the topics or is it?
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  Yeah, the next episode I'm going to be talking about popular catch phrases that are used by Christians that can be that we just say without thinking, you know, catch phrases or we say all the time things like, you know, when God closes a door, he opens a window or, you know, all of these different kind of God never gives us more than he can handle.
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  We're going to be dealing with a couple of catch phrases that are particularly dangerous and talk about how because catch phrases are used so frequently, we don't really think about them.
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  They're they can deliver deception if we're not careful and really evaluate those catch phrases and and also be doing another episode on NAR and what to look for.
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  Because one of the most common questions I get is how do I know if a church organization is part of this movement. So I tell people how they can know great excellence.
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  So friends again, brand new podcast, congrats, Holly. I know it's always a big undertaking when we start doing something like that. So praise God.
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  And Doug say hello. I already told you say hello to Doug for us and people can watch those videos on reckless Christianity that we did here when we interviewed both of you.
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  Any new book in the works or is that down the road at all?
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  I'm working on yeah on the side. I'm hoping that that will happen.
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  And all your free time.
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  Yes. All right. Well, sister, thank you for the work you do discernment is a huge issue, especially in today's Christians in today's America with the seeker sense of a church and all the counterfeits.
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  But God bless you in a larger territory. We will Lord willing do this again. Thanks.
• 27:33
  Thank you David. Thank you most welcome. All right guys. God bless you. Thanks for sharing the podcast. And as always, keep speaking the truth about things that matter.
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  You