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The Huddle: Do we need a Capital Gains Tax? · The SME Stream

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  Speaker 1: The Huddle with New Zealand Southerby's International Realty, local and
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  Speaker 1: global exposure like no other.
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  Speaker 2: On the Huddle of Me This Evening, David Faraki, we Blogging,
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  Speaker 2: Curiapolster and Jack Tame, host of Saturday mornings on News
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  Speaker 2: Talk z'bn Q and A Highlands Thank you, Jack on
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  Speaker 2: board of it? Are you bored of it? I'm so
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  Speaker 2: bored of it? It's like an old idea. It's we've
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  Speaker 2: rejected it, Get something new, move on.
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  Speaker 3: Well we've rejected it, but we haven't rejected the reason
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  Speaker 3: that we are still talking about it, which is that
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  Speaker 3: New Zealand doesn't have sufficient revenue at the moment to
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  Speaker 3: sustain the kind of services that most New Zealanders expect
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  Speaker 3: will be part of our lives going into the future.
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  Speaker 3: And I think until we address that fundamental problem, we're
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  Speaker 3: going to keep having this old conversation. I mean, you
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  Speaker 3: can debate about the effectiveness of throwing money at problems,
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  Speaker 3: and I think if we've learned anything in recent years,
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  Speaker 3: it's that throwing at money. Throwing money at problems doesn't
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  Speaker 3: automatically make them go away. But we still have a
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  Speaker 3: massive infrastructure deficit, we have an aging population. We have
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  Speaker 3: massive needs in our healthcare system, and I think it
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  Speaker 3: is inevitable that New Zealand is going to have to
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  Speaker 3: broaden it's tax based going into the future if we
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  Speaker 3: want to have the kind of country that most of
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  Speaker 3: us would think we'd like to live in. I also
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  Speaker 3: think there's still a Faenus question at the heart of it.
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  Speaker 3: I mean, I can't get reasonable people to explain to
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  Speaker 3: me why someone working two jobs cleaning toilets through the
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  Speaker 3: middle of the night in South Auckland is taxed at
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  Speaker 3: a marginal rate, whereas someone who buys a house, holds
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  Speaker 3: it for four years and then in flecks it on
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  Speaker 3: isn't taxed at least a little bit on their capital
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  Speaker 3: gain during that period. So yeah, I think this is inevitable.
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  Speaker 3: And one of the things that I think is curious,
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  Speaker 3: ether is the timing of this conversation. I reckon there
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  Speaker 3: are a lot of people who are thinking, you know what,
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  Speaker 3: if it comes down to a binary choice between a
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  Speaker 3: wealth tax and a CGT, A CGT makes sense for
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  Speaker 3: so many more reasons.
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  Speaker 2: David, what's your polling telling you? Because a lot of
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  Speaker 2: the time you hear people say, oh, it's time has
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  Speaker 2: come people are much more on board of it now
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  Speaker 2: than they were ten years ago. What are you seeing?
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  Speaker 1: People like the idea of other people paying more tax.
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  Speaker 1: Whatever you fall on tax. People don't want to pay more,
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  Speaker 1: but they want other people to pay more. A CGT
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  Speaker 1: with no details is actually quite popular because no one
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  Speaker 1: thinks it will hit them. But the moment you get
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  Speaker 1: into a specific model and when people realize it's going
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  Speaker 1: to affect their bats, it might effect there their sheer portfolio,
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  Speaker 1: et cetera, et cetera, then it starts to die death
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  Speaker 1: of a thousand cuts. And this is this amusing thing
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  Speaker 1: with a Z coming out for it, because there is
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  Speaker 1: a case for CGT if you're a purist and applied
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  Speaker 1: to all capital gains and your lie the income text
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  Speaker 1: to compensate, but will never apply to people's family homes.
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  Speaker 1: So that would be deeply unpopular. And when does A
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  Speaker 1: and Z make its money people? That is such a
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  Speaker 1: want other people to pay tax.
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  Speaker 3: That is such a good point. That's the real test
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  Speaker 3: for Antony Watson's position on this. Does she support a
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  Speaker 3: comprehensive CGT some one that applies to the family home,
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  Speaker 3: one that applies to the family bets, one that applies
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  Speaker 3: to all capital gains.
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  Speaker 2: Jack, Why should you pay capital gains on your batch?
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  Speaker 3: I think it's cleaner. I also think regardless of any assets,
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  Speaker 3: if it increases in value and capital value and you
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  Speaker 3: make a profit from that, then it's reasonable to say
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  Speaker 3: the family some yep, I think.
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  Speaker 2: But then if you think about that, think about it.
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  Speaker 2: Think about it, Jack. So let's say you buy your
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  Speaker 2: family home for five hundred and you sell it ten
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  Speaker 2: years later for one meal. Then you pay tax on that.
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  Speaker 2: How are you going to buy? And because you want
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  Speaker 2: to buy another house? You now can't afford another comparable house,
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  Speaker 2: So you just pay tax on your family home. You
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  Speaker 2: are left what you mean you.
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  Speaker 3: Can't afford another comparable house. Why wouldn't you be able
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  Speaker 3: to afford a comparable house.
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  Speaker 2: Because you've just paid tax on the five hundred you've
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  Speaker 2: made on your family.
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  Speaker 3: But that house. Well, first of all, well.
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  Speaker 2: You can't afford another meal because now.
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  Speaker 3: You expect the CGT to apply to I wouldn't expect
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  Speaker 3: the CGT to apply at the marginal rate. I don't
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  Speaker 3: think many people are suggesting it should apply at the
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  Speaker 3: marginal rate. Secondly, you're looking to buy well, I mean
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  Speaker 3: that's up for debate, right, but you can make it
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  Speaker 3: a loss. I just go back to your economic point there.
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  Speaker 3: That house that you're looking to buy is also subject
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  Speaker 3: to a CG tech. Yeah, so every house is so.
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  Speaker 3: So you say you can't afford a new house, That
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  Speaker 3: new house, that comparable house that you're looking to buy,
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  Speaker 3: is subject when it's sold to you, the same CGT.
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  Speaker 3: So no, you'll argument makes no sense. You say you
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  Speaker 3: can't afford it, It's applied exactly the same things.
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  Speaker 2: Been married to. You must be a bloody nightmare. Listen
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  Speaker 2: to me. If you are selling a house for a
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  Speaker 2: million bucks and then you pay tax and you want
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  Speaker 2: to buy another house for a million bucks, it's still
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  Speaker 2: costing you a million bucks. You don't get a discount
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  Speaker 2: because that house has got a CGT on it as well.
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  Speaker 3: If but the point is that that house will have
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  Speaker 3: also had a tax applied. Yes, when it's sold by
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  Speaker 3: the person to you, it would have had the same
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  Speaker 3: thing applied. So a comparable house, the tax will be negligible.
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  Speaker 3: There'll be noice between.
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  Speaker 2: The your house, so that makes no sense. You're still the.
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  Speaker 1: Government money out of both. Basically, when you sell your house,
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  Speaker 1: the government will make money, and the person who sells
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  Speaker 1: you the house you're moving into makes government will make
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  Speaker 1: money on that too.
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  Speaker 2: Yes, but you are still You're moving from a million
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  Speaker 2: dollar house to a million dollar house, right, so you are.
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  Speaker 2: So what I'm arguing is, it's what I'm just trying
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  Speaker 2: to argue. It shouldn't apply to the family home, as
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  Speaker 2: it doesn't at the moment and all should it apply
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  Speaker 2: to the batch because your batch is not an investment
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  Speaker 2: you're trying to make money off. Your batch is your
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  Speaker 2: second home that you are enjoying.
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  Speaker 3: Do you think just out of interest, do you think
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  Speaker 3: for the sake of simplicity in keeping the tax code
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  Speaker 3: as simple as possible? I get that from a political perspective,
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  Speaker 3: there aren't going to be people who support the you know,
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  Speaker 3: support having a CGT on the family home or the badge.
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  Speaker 3: But do you think that just from a simplicity application perspective,
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  Speaker 3: it makes sense to have it completely comprehensive on all
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  Speaker 3: properm sales for example?
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  Speaker 2: No, right, yeah, absolutely not a hate paying tax.
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  Speaker 3: I mean it would certainly certainly be less bureaucratic. We
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  Speaker 3: can probably all agree on this. Then a wealth text
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  Speaker 3: we'd agree on that, right.
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  Speaker 2: If we don't have to have any of them. It's
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  Speaker 2: for me. It's not a choice of one between the
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  Speaker 2: other eyes.
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  Speaker 3: So what do you do? What would you do about
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  Speaker 3: an aging population user pays for healthcare?
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  Speaker 2: Yeap ration it because if you take all the wealthy,
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  Speaker 2: greedy buggers out and they go and pay for their
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  Speaker 2: private healthcare, it's taking least pressure. It takes pressure off
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  Speaker 2: the health the public health system. Therefore, problem Kinder solved.
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  Speaker 2: The remainder of the people can use the rest. Yeah okay,
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  Speaker 2: yeah like.
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  Speaker 1: That.
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  Speaker 2: No, you did it because you know we have we can.
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  Speaker 2: I know what you think, I know how you vote.
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  Speaker 2: We'll take a break, come back, and just to take
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  Speaker 2: fourteen away from six the Huddle.
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  Speaker 1: With New Zealand Southby's International Realty Elevate the marketing of your.
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  Speaker 2: Home with a Huddle David Farrh and Jack Tam David,
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  Speaker 2: did you hear Samon Brown before on with us?
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  Speaker 1: No idea?
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  Speaker 2: Okay, So assuming that that is what has happened, I'm
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  Speaker 2: going to tell you what he said. He said that
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  Speaker 2: the contractor that made the transpower pylon fall over had
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  Speaker 2: already the same contractor had already three times before taken
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  Speaker 2: the nuts out of more than one Pilon league at
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  Speaker 2: a time. It was just that when they did it
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  Speaker 2: the fourth time, the pilon fell over. What do you think?
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  Speaker 1: I think Monty Python should come to New Zealand film
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: a show based with Transpower Dorthlyn because you know, to
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  Speaker 1: do it once because the official story was someone wasn't supervising.
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  Speaker 1: But to think they be going around the country right
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  Speaker 1: unscreened four.
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  Speaker 4: Bolts at a time and just be lucky. It wasn't
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  Speaker 4: a witdy day. It really is a stud sheet. It's
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  Speaker 4: normally I don't support Transpower pain compensation because otherwise we'd
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  Speaker 4: be paying lots more for a power bells. But I
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  Speaker 4: think when the incompetence is.
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  Speaker 1: So gross and it had such an impact, I think
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  Speaker 1: they should make a good will payment.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah well, I mean actually this was avoidable quite but
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  Speaker 2: jack should it be Transpower should be on some who's
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  Speaker 2: done this for the fourth time?
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  Speaker 3: Well yeah, I mean you'd think it should be a
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  Speaker 3: mix on right. So there are two questions. First of all,
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  Speaker 3: how on earth is this person will got a job
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  Speaker 3: or how did they still have a job if this
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  Speaker 3: was the level of training that was being provided to them.
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  Speaker 3: Something tells me that Omix on maybe doesn't have the
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  Speaker 3: means to be paying much compensation, but it's remarkable given
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  Speaker 3: this had happened so many times before that Transpower was
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  Speaker 3: still using them. Although I'm not sure if Simmon Brown
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  Speaker 3: is actually clear as to whether or not Transpower knew
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  Speaker 3: about the previous errors with the bolts after the fact.
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  Speaker 2: So when it felt when it fell over on the
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  Speaker 2: fourth time, they then found out that it happened to.
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  Speaker 3: Me, they said, surprises of the fourth time. I mean,
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  Speaker 3: I honestly think that Grant McCallum's got a really good
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  Speaker 3: point on this front. Like I think that having some
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  Speaker 3: I think it's going to be impossible to fully compensate
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  Speaker 3: every person in business for the tens and millions of
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  Speaker 3: dollars and losses caused as a result of this. But
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  Speaker 3: but I think saying something like, actually, we're going to
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  Speaker 3: cut your bills for the next twelve months, you know,
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  Speaker 3: not one hundred percent necessarily, but we're gonna we're going
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  Speaker 3: to meaningfully reduce your bills as a result of the
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  Speaker 3: inconvenience and expense from this total and utter complete incompetence.
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  Speaker 3: I think that'd be a really good move.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, why not, Hey, what do you make David of
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  Speaker 2: the fact that actually, according to the well being stats
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  Speaker 2: from Stats New Zealand, apparently we are happy like seven
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  Speaker 2: point six out of ten happy, even though we complain
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  Speaker 2: about everything at the moment.
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  Speaker 1: Well as comparing it to I mean, it's much the
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  Speaker 1: same as what was up five years ago, so you've
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  Speaker 1: got that whole COVID period at set. But I think
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  Speaker 1: in the end of the day, it shows we're a
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  Speaker 1: pre resilient country where it's not like a miracle where
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  Speaker 1: I think people are so depressed about what's happening to
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  Speaker 1: the country. People are literally I know people in New
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  Speaker 1: Zealand who get more depressed about what's happney in America
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  Speaker 1: than they do worrying about what's happening in New Zealand.
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  Speaker 1: So that's probably quite a good place to be in
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  Speaker 1: when our biggest concern is whether Donald Trump's going to
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  Speaker 1: one or not not yo, are the hospitals working, the
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  Speaker 1: school's working, etc. So it doesn't surprise me and it's
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  Speaker 1: a nice thing to see that we've still got that resilience,
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  Speaker 1: that degree of happiness, because at the end of the day,
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  Speaker 1: that's what government is meant to be about, that people
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  Speaker 1: can have happy lives.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, totally. We'll have to leave it there. Guys, Thank you.
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  Speaker 2: I really appreciated as Jack Tame, host of Saturday mornings
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: on NEWSTALKS'DBNQ and A and David Farra Kiwi Blog and Curiapolster.
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  Speaker 2: Eight away from six