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5 Myths About Growing a Youth Ministry · Ministry Coach: Youth Ministry Tips & Resources

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: Are you a youth pastor dreaming about growing your youth ministry?
• 0:03
  SPEAKER_01: Today we're gonna talk about the other side of growth that might surprise you.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to the Ministry Coach Podcast, where we bring you weekly tips and tactics to help you fast track the growth and health of your youth ministry.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_01: My name is Jeff Lascola, and this is Kristen Lascola, and today we're talking about five myths regarding youth group ministry.
• 0:35
  unknown: Growth.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_00: I wouldn't even have thought that.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_01: Youth group ministry.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_01: That's what we do.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_01: I think growth, we talk about it, we sprinkle it into a lot of our episodes and the concepts around growth, the feeling, the emotion.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_01: It's a complicated and sometimes emotionally charged issue.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_01: And this is recorded in January.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_01: And so I feel like we're all kind of thinking about like, what does this next year hold?
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_01: Is my youth ministry gonna grow?
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_01: I'm trying to grow it.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_01: And those are all really good goals.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, it's been said, and we've said it a million times healthy things grow.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_01: Also, unhealthy things grow, all kinds of things grow.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_01: So it's just a complicated issue.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_01: So we're gonna kind of uncover a few myths that I've experienced regarding growth.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_01: Sort of my background in case you've missed that episode or forgotten, is I my first job in youth ministry, I've always worked at the same church, but we're a multi-site church.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_01: So I've worked at two different campuses.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_01: And the first campus I worked at at the time was our only campus.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_01: So it's it was kind of like the main campus, and it was a large junior high ministry.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't really know any different because that's the ministry I attended when I was a junior higher.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_01: Then it was the ministry I volunteered at, and then I interned at, and then I directed at.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_01: And it wasn't until I went to our first off-site campus and did the middle school ministry there that I realized, oh, ministry comes in all shapes and sizes.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_01: We had launched an off-site campus about 20 minutes away from our main campus.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_01: And they said, Will you be the junior high pastor there?
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_01: I said, Okay.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_01: And I remember the first day I showed up, it was a classroom at a community center, and there were 11 precious kids.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, Whoa.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_00: Big difference.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_01: It was culture shock.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_01: And I didn't, I don't think I felt like, oh my gosh, this is awful.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't feel bad.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_01: I just was like, oh my gosh, this is gonna be so different.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_01: And it was, and that was a long time ago.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_01: And now, fast forward, my ministry that same.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_01: I'm still at this off-site campus, you know, the first one we ever launched.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_01: And on Tuesday, I had 206.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_01: So it's like this, I feel like I've experienced every stage of growth, actually more than once.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_01: And it's just become something that I feel like what I thought it would be and what I what it is are two different things.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_01: And so the first myth is that if you grow your youth ministry, it will solve all your problems.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_01: The only problem it might solve is your senior pastor might leave you alone for a little while and like stop asking when you're gonna grow.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_01: And here's here's the truth about growth is that it's actually quite the opposite.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_01: It does not solve all your problems.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_01: Regardless of your size of ministry, you're always going to have problems to solve.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_01: There problems are never gonna go away.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_01: You're just gonna trade one problem for another.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_01: They're just different problems.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_01: But here's what I realized with growth.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_01: I think, in fact, you will incur more problems.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_01: There was an old rap song, I think, where they said mo money, mow problems.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_01: And I always remembered that.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_01: And I have applied it to youth ministry, mo people, mo problems, you know, because law of average, there's just when there's more of the thing, there's more potential for the thing to go wrong, you know.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_01: It's just gonna be the way that it is.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_01: So here's my advice whatever position that you're in, develop yourself as a leader, like in the sense that you outpace the size of your ministry, meaning develop your skills larger than your current ministry.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_01: So, meaning that you're always positioned for what's next, that you're not just stagnant in your leadership, meaning your leadership can like my ministry is 11 kids, I'm equipped for 11 kids, I can handle 11 kids.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_01: But what I would challenge you to do, if you have five, six, seven, eight, nine, 10, 11 kids, then figure out how to be a leader for 20 kids, 30 kids, 40 kids, 50 kids, and beyond.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_01: Like start developing the big L leadership skills in yourself now, regardless of the size of your ministry, your ministry.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_01: At our church, we have this saying, a big L leader versus a little L leader.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_01: And a big L leader is more than just someone who manages what's in front of them, but they have vision and they can see the future and they grow things in a healthy way.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_01: And they have vision and they're magnetic and they know where they're going.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_01: They know how to bring people along with them, they know how to lead in a large capacity, they know how to solve complex problems.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_01: And so, one discipline I have adopted that I love is leaders who are ahead of me in their leadership journey.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_01: I love to ask them, what problems are you solving right now?
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_01: Like, don't give me anyone's name.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not like fishing for gossip.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_01: I just want to know at your level of leadership, what kinds of problems are you solving?
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_01: Tell me the scenario without giving any details away that would breach privacy or anything like that.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_01: But and tell me the problem, tell me what you're doing, tell me the steps that you've had to take.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_01: Because when you start to lead larger, not only do you increase the number of problems, but you also tend to increase the size of the problems and the complexity of the problems.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_01: And I always just remember thinking, I want to be ready for that.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like, well, how?
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I won't have the problem till I have the problem.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_01: But when I hear other leaders and like, just talk, just tell me what you're doing right now.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, well, there's this person, and you know, they're upset because, you know, this.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_01: And then what we had to do is bring in this, you know, and and they start to talk through these solutions that never would have occurred to me.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_01: But what it helped me understand is patterns of problem solving, so that when something comes my way, I'm like, okay, I know what leaders who I respect and love would maybe do in this situation.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_01: This seems to be a logical pattern.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_01: Well, first you talk to them and then you talk to them, and then you bring everyone together.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_01: And then, you know, you, you know, depending on the seriousness of it, then you call this person.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_01: So it's like, ah, okay, like I feel like I'm developing skills that are outpacing where I'm currently at, which are positioning me for growth in the future.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_01: But just know that, you know, like whatever size you dream of your youth ministry being at, that's not gonna be like, we did it, everyone.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you will be in the thick of like think of like the leaders you know who are leading big.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_01: I promise you, they're not on cruise control, and they are knee knee or neck deep in issues, problems, things that they have to untangle.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_01: And that's leadership.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_01: That's what we signed up for.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_01: So it's not like a complaint, it's just the reality.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_01: Like, just be ready for that.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_01: And I think we just see the number and we get all starry-eyed.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_01: Like, wouldn't that be cool?
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_01: Wouldn't it be cool if 200 kids were coming here?
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_01: It would be cool.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_01: 200 kids hearing the gospel, that's awesome.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_01: Just know though, it's not devoid of a lot of blood, sweat, and tears behind the scenes.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_01: You know, when you look at a different church or youth ministry that you think, wow, if we could only be that size, just know what you think that person's job is and what that person's job actually ends up being are probably very different than what you imagine it to be.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_01: So it doesn't mean like, don't want to be big, just have a realistic view that, hey, it's not gonna solve any of your youth ministry problems.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_01: You will have more problems and they will be more complex.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_01: So get ready.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_00: I like how you said you when you were talking to other leaders and seeing how they addressed problems and kind of lumping them together because it more than likely the same problem won't present itself exactly the same.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_00: And there will be a a tweak or you know, something in there, it's like, well, I can't use the same method I did last time because this now, this factor has now changed.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_00: But when you kind of approach it more in a like an overview of like this is kind of how maybe leaders ahead of me have approached similar type problems, then you can kind of put some of that stuff in there because I feel like you you come home like on a Tuesday night, and if there was an issue, there's always an issue.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_00: Well, and it's it's not it's very rarely the same thing.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_01: I know.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_01: It's yeah, you know, it's not wild.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_00: 50 weeks or whatever you're meeting out of the out of the year, if like if there was a problem every weekend or every week, it would probably be a unique situation every single time.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_00: So it would be nice to say, when this happens, you do this, when this happens, you do this, but it's not always that cut and dry.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_00: It's not preparing yourself for like that, like you were saying, kind of that roundabout, how do you address this type of issue, right?
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_00: Even though it might not be plug and play for every single one.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_01: Because I think it comes down to more theoretical, like, oh, when someone has a moral failure of this type, we usually move in this direction.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_01: There's nuance, like you said, but you at least have a baseline instead of I don't know what to do.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_01: Because my staff will come to me a lot with a problem, and they're like, as soon as I say, here's what we're gonna do, they're like, I told them Kristen always knows what to do.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_01: And I can't be like, Yeah, you're right.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_01: I do.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_01: It's just because I've watched really good leaders for a really long time, and I just like copy what they do.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_01: I copy their leadership philosophy.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, hey, here's how we deal with people who, you know, do this.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_01: Here's how we deal with parents who ask this, here's how we deal with a kid who's in a conflict like this, and here's how we deal with a family issue, you know, like it's just always a different scenario, like you said, but at least I have a direction.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_01: And then you can always call for help, like phone a friend, you know, like just say, hey, here's what I'm thinking of doing next.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_01: Am I on the right track, you know, of whoever your leadership is?
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_01: But always be ready for the next season of leadership is the bottom line.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_01: You should be developing your leadership skills like literally every day.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_01: You know, there's so much, I mean, you probably are if you're listening to this podcast, but you know, there's so much good leader stuff.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_01: There's so much good content.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_01: It's like you should be developing your leadership muscles every day to get ready for what's next, to be able to handle growth when and if it happens.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_01: Kind of along the same lines, a myth about growing your youth ministry is that it will be inherently better.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_01: Like the youth ministry itself will be, it'll just be a better group.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_01: And as the saying goes, bigger isn't necessarily better.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_01: There are aspects of a large ministry that are super fun, and there's energy and there's excitement and you know, all of that.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_01: It's kind of make it's like a buzz, like everyone wants to be, you know, where everyone is.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what's the big deal?
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_01: Everyone wants to be there.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_01: But at the same time, it's not always better because the bigger you are.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_01: Here's what I've learned is it puts a ton of limitations on you, believe it or not.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_01: You think like, oh, it's big, we could do anything.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_01: No, you can do much less.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_01: I used to be able to take my students to the beach, and now I'm getting slapped on the wrist by the ocean, oceanside lifeguards.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_01: Bless their heart.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_01: They're doing their job, you know.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_01: But they're like, What are you doing?
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_01: You don't have a permit.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, permit?
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I've been doing this for 21 years.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_01: I've never asked you for a permit.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_01: And they're like, you know, if you're over a certain size of a gathering, you have to have a permit.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_01: That's never been an issue for me before.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_01: Transportation, it would be like, why don't you drive and I drive?
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_01: Bada bing, bada boom, you know, and now I'm getting all these rental vehicle contracts that never come through, and I'm having like a panic attack at midnight, you know.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_01: There's certain games I can't play.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_01: Like, how do you play a game with 200 people?
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_01: It's just some of my favorite things we can't do anymore.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_01: So there are limitations on you when you're bigger.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_01: Now, those are solvable problems, but the simplicity that once was is not there anymore.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_00: So don't again even drop off and pickup, more more specifically, pickup.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_00: I have the police come system.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_00: Because it can't just be you pull up, your kid gets to the car and they leave.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_01: It's like we have to have lanes and co-six lanes of cars, parking guards.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_01: And I had the police come a few weeks ago.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_01: He wasn't mad, he was just like, What's going on?
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_01: What is why why are there so many cars here on a Tuesday night?
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_01: We live in a small town, and our even our town has a Facebook group, and they were like, Does anyone know why there's a billion cars on mission road on Tuesday nights?
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_01: I did not chime in.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_01: Somebody else answered on our behalf, like, oh, it's a youth group.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_01: It's so cool.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_01: You should, if you have a junior hire, they should go.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_01: So nobody was mad, but everyone was just like, What, what, what?
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's just you need systems and infrastructure and all this stuff.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_01: And so it gets complicated.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm not saying, so do anything possible not to grow.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_01: But what I want to do is paint a picture of if your goal is to grow, I don't want you to be blindsided by the unintended consequences that come along with really great growth.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_01: Our growth has been very healthy, it's been steady, it's been good.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_01: I'm glad we're the size we are.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_01: These are just things nobody told me about, nobody warned me about that.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_01: Instead of having more freedom to do cool things because you have more kids, you actually have less freedom.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_01: And resources are more scarce.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, like sometimes the quality of things changes because, well, we can't afford to buy everyone this.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_01: I can only afford to buy everyone that.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_01: And so there's just things that I don't know.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_01: I don't want smaller youth groups also to be jealous of like larger youth groups because you have an advantage in some ways, and larger youth groups have an advantage in some ways.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_01: It's not like all one side or the other.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_01: So it just ends up looking different once you get big.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_01: It's not like I don't play games anymore.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_01: I have to go back to the drawing board.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_01: How do we play games that can maintain their organization and quality and engagement?
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_01: And engagement with this level of kids.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, maybe we split boys and girls, maybe we split by grades, maybe we split by small groups.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you know, we have to continue to solve problems.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_01: And then number three, a myth about growth is that it will happen overnight, you know.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_01: Whenever you see a large youth group, you just assume they've always been big, you know.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_01: And that's why I shared a little bit of my flux in numbers at the beginning.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_01: It was like, well, yeah, I have a lot of kids now, but that 11 when I first started, you know, and it wasn't like, and then six months later, woo, it was like And you probably wouldn't.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it would be nice to have it happen that fast, but you probably wouldn't be a good thing for you or the ministry itself if you had growth come that quickly.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_00: Be not being able to sustain it, it would all be like trying to catch, you know, a water in a small cup when you need a bucket.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like that bucket is representation of your youth ministry and your leadership being ready for that kind of growth.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_01: And so if it happened slowly, and at like I said, ours was in a very healthy, organic way.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_01: It wasn't like all of a sudden we had to make room for 200 kids.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_01: It was like, oh, I remember when we got to 43.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_01: I thought that was like, what is happening?
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_01: And then I remember getting to like 70.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_01: And then I remember breaking 100 for the first time.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, this is over the span of six, seven, eight years, you know, this like took a very long time.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_01: And so just know, like, as youth pastors, we always talk about being in it for the long haul.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_01: If your attendance is fluctuating or whatever, don't worry about it.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_01: Like healthy, sustainable growth happens over a long period of time.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_01: It's not going to happen overnight.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_01: It's not like you're just gonna work really hard for six months and then there's just gonna be this exponential growth.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_01: Like it usually takes longer than that.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um, our friend Chase sent us a text message this week.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_01: He's in our YMGA course and he sent us a picture of his youth group before he started the course.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_01: And it was this little circle of kids, you know.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_01: And now, I mean, he's been our course for what two years?
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_01: And now, like, he showed us a picture of what his youth group looks like, and it's exploding.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_01: It's exploding.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, that's two years, and he's been in the course, like working away, working away.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't mean to plug it, but you know, it speaks for itself.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't mean to.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_00: Well, and that well, now that we're on the topic, but the course basically is designed, it's taking your roadmap, your blueprint, and the path that you've done, but doing it in reverse in the sense that like now that it's been figured out, now that the trail has been cut with the with the machete, now you can go through it much quicker instead of having to be the one slashing away.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_00: I was the one with the machete.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_00: You were the machete, or the one with the machete.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_00: Just getting but now instead of like, yeah, because you're having to go through, okay, how do you figure out this?
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_00: What do you do here?
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, stuff like that.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_00: It's like the course basically is saying, Okay, now that that that path has been cleared, here's where you go.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I remember when we were starting, you always were saying, even with the podcast, be what you wish you had.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_01: You know, that was the mantra you would always say.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like, yeah, I wish, you know, 21 years ago me had this me to help, but too late.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_00: If you're interested, grow your youth ministry.com.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_00: You can check out more information, but let's go on to the next point.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um, well, I don't want to go into the next point.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_01: I'm still talking about it won't happen overnight.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_01: So here's the encouragement: there is just be faithful.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_01: Like, just be faithful.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_01: Show up every single day and give your ministry your absolute best.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_01: Be an incredible steward of what is exactly in front of you.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_01: And I have to believe that over time the fruit will speak for itself, the growth will happen organically.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_01: People will just naturally invite their friends.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_01: And that's what I remember ending up happening.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_01: I would rarely tell my students bring your friends to youth group.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_01: They just intuitively Knew I can bring my friends to youth group, and I want to bring my friends to youth group.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't have to tell them.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_01: It was obvious.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_01: And because we were just running a really good program, and I remember just showing up every single week, every single weekend, like giving it my absolute best, loving the heck out of the students, trying to make it as fun as possible, trying to make my message as good as possible, trying to make our events as fun as like anything within my hand.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_01: It was like, I'm not going to half effort this thing.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_01: I'm going to like, okay, God's put it in my hand.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna like squeeze the heck out of it and see how how much we can get out of this.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_01: And I loved it.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_01: And some weeks I felt like, heck yeah, that was a win.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_01: And some weeks I'm like, where was everybody?
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_01: But I just remember, I was just like, just be faithful, just be faithful.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_01: Keep going, keep going, keep going, day in and day out.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_01: And here's what I learned too.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_01: Some sometimes growth is out of our control.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_01: Like, no matter how hard we work, no matter how good we are at our job, like you might be at a church that has some extraneous circumstances that make your growth curve just really slow.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_01: And it might not be your fault.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_01: It could be a location issue, it could be a facility issue.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_01: That was kind of our problem for years.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_01: It could be a leadership issue, it could be a budget issue.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we talk about how to make youth ministry on a shoestring budget, and I did it for a long time.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we can't always just blame like, well, if I had$30,000, I could do it.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_01: But there are factors, I believe, outside of a youth pastor.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_01: I don't care what anyone says, there's factors outside of a youth pastor's control that do hinder their growth.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_01: I don't like playing the blame game.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_01: I think personal responsibility, take what you can and run with it, resource the heck out of what you've been given.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_01: But sometimes your hands are tied in certain areas and there's just nothing you can do about it.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_01: I've seen that be proven.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_01: And so I'm very sympathetic to youth pastors who are trying their absolute best, but their hands are tied in certain areas, you know?
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_01: And so give yourself a break on those.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_01: It's like just keep being faithful, you know, with what's in front of you.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_01: So it is hard, and I I understand that.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, number four, just because you're growing, it doesn't mean you're doing everything right.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I think sometimes if you have experienced growth, you can pat yourself on the back and just say, Well, we're doing something right.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know what that little church down the street's doing, but they don't get it.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, um, I've I've met plenty of youth pastors of large ministries that I would say, you're just kind of lucky it grew.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_01: I wouldn't say it's because you guys are just nailing it.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_01: Like God is bringing students here, and that's great, but you've got a lot of issues we've got to figure out, and and we do, but it doesn't.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I just want to kind of pull back the curtain on that.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_01: Large ministries, it's not like, well, then they figured it out, and what are we doing?
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_01: We're drowning over here, and we must not be good at our jobs.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_01: It does not mean that.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_01: Growth is a mysterious thing, you know, and that's kind of what we were saying in the beginning.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_01: It just doesn't mean things are well done.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_01: I've been to large churches that things were hideously done.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_01: And I couldn't figure it out.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_01: Why are people here?
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I don't know.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_01: Is there nowhere else to go?
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_01: Do they like the big flashy stage and lights?
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_01: I like that kind of stuff.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_01: So maybe I would be drawn to that.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_01: But just seeing the quality of some of the messages or ministries, I'm just like, wow, what's going on?
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_00: You know, there's a church I know about that was very close to this.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_00: Kind of goes back to you're saying location can matter.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_00: And some churches have their hands tied and somewhat you can't really just up and move where you're at.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_00: But there was a church that was located right, literally like right down the road from a school, and it kind of just became, yeah, go straight from school to this church.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_00: And so that became a post-school hangout, which is good, which is great.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_00: But at the same time, this church was just exploding with growth because of a lot of this, but was so unhealthy.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_00: Where it was like um people would talk for years and years after the fact that it's like, oh, I remember going there.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_00: We would just get drunk in the parking lot.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_01: You're like, I heard so many of those stories.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, where were the leader?
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_01: And they'd say, Oh, they wouldn't make you come in.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_01: Like they would let you just hang out in the parking lot if that's what you wanted.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, unsupervised.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_00: And just I don't know, the the hearing about that, it's like from the outside, you could say, Oh my gosh, they have, you know, I don't know how many students it was.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_01: They had like 200 kids for a while.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_00: 200.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_00: So you know the same one I'm talking about then?
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_00: 200 kids showing up completely unhealthy.
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_00: Is that worth it?
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_00: You know, like I wouldn't think so.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and that's what I mean.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_01: Like, where you look at these things and you're like, oh, like must be nice, you know, but it just, and if it's you, just watch yourself.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_01: Like, it doesn't mean like you can kick your feet up because clearly we have it figured out.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_01: Look at our numbers.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_01: Enough said, the numbers speak for themselves.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_01: No, they don't, you know, and if that culture continues in unhealth and gets away from you, they're you know what's scarier than a small unhealthy culture is a big unhealthy culture because that thing can run off the rails so fast, and you are not big enough to to corral that back, and that thing can crumble under your feet.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, and that's best case scenario.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_01: There's all kinds of weird stuff that can happen.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_01: It can damage the reputation of your church and your ministry and yourself for a long time to come.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm not saying it is bad.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just saying don't get too comfortable just because you're big doesn't mean you figured it all out.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_01: The best case scenario would be healthy and large, like that would be fantastic.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_01: So you just have to keep your eye on health constantly as a leader of a youth ministry.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_01: Like health, like you, every area, like what are our relationships like?
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_01: What are what's our uh leadership culture like?
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_01: What's our theology like?
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_01: Are we staying true to everything we were supposed to do?
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_01: Is our heart getting off track?
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_01: Like, are we just here checking boxes and playing church, or do we have a true heart for students and do we love them, or are we becoming jaded and numb?
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_01: You know, like there's so many ways.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, and like we don't even have to give an example.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_01: Everyone listening knows an example, you know, of some ministry they heard of or knew, and then you know, it wasn't what it seemed to be, but it was like the thing.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_01: So it's just be careful.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_01: And lastly, the myth is number five that you'll be more fulfilled as a youth pastor.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_01: Like you personally will be happier, you will feel accomplished, you will feel successful, like not totally.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_01: Most of us get into youth ministry because we love students.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_01: Student ministry.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_01: Like you connected with students, you were gifted with students.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_01: Growth can have a weird effect on your role as a youth pastor because it inevitably uh creates more distance between you and the students than you've ever experienced before.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_01: You become more of a leader of leaders, you become the vision caster.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_01: You're like, you have your hands on the steering wheel of the ship and you make sure the ship gets repaired, you make sure the crew is taken care of, you make sure the ship is heading in the right direction, you make sure the sails are up.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_01: So you're like looking at the ship overall, you're not as involved.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, I still have discipleship relationships with my students.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_01: It's not at the level it was when we were 11 or 25.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_01: My leaders do that now.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_01: And I remember that, you know, shift kind of start to happen.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_01: And you might even like your job a little less as you transition into a season of growth because you realize you're the problem solver, you're the issue dealer with her, you're the, you know, you're doing things on a bigger level so that everyone else can do the discipleship in the ministry.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you're still teaching, but you know, that one-on-one kind of relationship that you loved having with students where you knew every single one by name and you knew what they were going through, and you, you know, they were texting or calling you when they needed something, you know, that would will probably be deferred to the small group leaders, you know, at that point.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_01: And then your job is to care for the small group leaders so that they can continue to be the uh engine running this thing.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, I think that's a hard thing that I've heard many times over the years as youth pastors grow, like their ministries, they're like, oh, my job's changing.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_01: I thought this would make me happier.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_01: I thought I'd be more fulfilled as a youth pastor.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_01: And it's not that I don't love my job, but I kind of have to mourn that transition a little bit and step into a new phase and stage.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it catches people off guard because they just thought, like, I'll be the guy up on stage, like hundreds of kids, and it'll be so hype.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, will you know their names?
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_01: Some, you know, it won't be the same thing.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_01: Once we're in trouble.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, the ones who are in trouble.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_01: And your student leadership kids.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, it will be different.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_01: And so prepare yourself for that.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_01: So, yes, growth is a good thing, and maybe this episode felt like a drag, like, but I I guess the point of it was to take away some of the the myths so that you aren't caught off guard by what actual growth entails and how it affects you as a leader.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_00: And obviously, this podcast is all about how to grow a healthy youth ministry.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_00: It's even in the little front end there, the little bumper, it's always about health over growth.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_00: Because if it's not healthy, it's not worth even being a large, you know, youth ministry.
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you want to really lead an unhealthy giant youth ministry.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_01: I would rather have like six kids forever than have to six little angels lead an unhealthy, huge youth ministry.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_01: That'd be my worst nightmare.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_00: So if you got a lot of value out of this episode, make sure you subscribe, like, share with another youth leader, and leave a review if you're listening on a podcast.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_00: Takes two seconds, and we love hearing from you.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_00: Speaking of, let's do a community comment of the day.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_00: This comes from Dr.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_00: Brandon Jones, who says, still great content three years later.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_00: This was uh an episode I wrote down the five things every youth pastor needs to start doing.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_00: That was, I think I was almost four years ago, and now that thank you, Doctor.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, pretty good.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um, we've been doing this.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_01: This is our six months.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_00: This is coming up on six years.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes I watch the really old ones.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, cringe.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe the content was good, but our delivery was like so different.
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_00: I think I've been consistently bad throughout the six years.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_01: Ooh, poor Jeff.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_00: Poor Jeff is right.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_00: Hey, thank you guys so much for watching and listening.
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_00: And we'll see you next time.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_01: Most youth pastors want to grow their ministry, but there's some hidden things that they don't always expect that we're gonna talk about today.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_00: In this episode, we're not only giving you Welcome to the Ministry Coach podcast, where we bring you weekly try that again.
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_01: What did you say?