Latest / Roseman 360 / Episode 3: Caring for Our Communities: The Essential Role of Community Pharmacists

Transcript

Episode 3: Caring for Our Communities: The Essential Role of Community Pharmacists · Roseman 360

• 0:03
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to Roseman 360, the official podcast of Roseman University of Health Sciences.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_01: I'm Dr.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_01: Danielle Gundrum.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_01: This show is where curious minds meet bold ideas, where healthcare, education, research, and innovation come together through conversations that matter.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_01: Each episode brings you the voices of our leaders, educators, clinicians, students, alumni, and change makers who are advancing health and improving lives.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_01: Our goal is simple to inform, inspire, and connect through stories that broaden perspectives and spark new possibilities.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_01: Whether you're part of the healthcare community, interested in joining a healthcare profession, or simply passionate about learning, we're glad that you're here.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_01: October is American Pharmacists Month, and this year's theme is caring for our communities.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_01: There may be no better way to honor that theme than talking about community pharmacists, often the most accessible healthcare professional a patient will ever see.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_01: Today, we'll explore the essential role community pharmacists play in the healthcare system, how they connect with patients every day, how their scope of practice continues to expand, and the challenges and opportunities facing the profession.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_01: We'll also share how Roseman University's College of Pharmacy is preparing the next generation of pharmacists to serve their communities.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_01: Joining me are two leaders who see community pharmacy from two vantage points.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_01: One from the front lines of patient care and one helping educate the next generation of pharmacists.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_01: My first guest is Dr.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_01: Jamie Garcia, pharmacy practice coordinator and residency preceptor at Smith's Food and Drug.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_01: Dr.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_01: Garcia is a proud Roseman University alum and brings firsthand perspective on what it means to practice community pharmacy and care for patients where they live, work, and shop.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_01: Also with us today from our podcast studio in Henderson, Nevada, is Dr.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_01: Michelle Hahn.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_01: Dr.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_01: Hahn is Roseman University College of Pharmacies Director of Student Affairs for the Henderson Campus and Associate Professor of Pharmacy Practice.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_01: She is also a Roseman alum who completed her PGY1 community-based residency at Smith's Food and Drug.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_01: Dr.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_01: Garcia and Dr.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_01: Hahn, welcome to Roseman 360.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_01: So happy to be here.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for having me.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you for having me.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_01: Wonderful.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_01: So I have some questions prepared for our discussion today.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_01: The first one, I'd like to target Dr.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_01: Hahn, if that's all right.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_01: And it goes, why are community pharmacists often described as the most accessible healthcare professional?
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's because we're often embedded into the communities all around us.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_02: It's where you go to have, if you have questions, pick up your medications.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_02: Oftentimes, community members are checking with their pharmacists every other week, every month.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_02: We see our patients so frequently.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that's why we're able to gain a lot of trust from our patients.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_02: And they feel as if we are part of their family and community.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_00: I would add to that.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_00: So in my role currently, I oversee 17 pharmacies for Smiths and uh based out of Salt Lake and then also the whole state of Wyoming.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_00: So I see metropolitan areas, I see rural uh areas and communities across Wyoming, and our community pharmacists are part of the family.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_00: The way that they know the families, the way they know um their uh disease state, their grandchildren, there it's just they are um accessible, as you said, and we're open, you know, seven days a week.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_00: You think of a patient that sees their provider maybe uh twice a year, maybe, and they are coming to us uh multiple, you know, at least every 30 to 90 days for their pickup.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_00: And when they're shopping in our stores, they're seeing us even more frequently than that.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_00: So absolutely agree with you, Dr.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_00: Han, that they are we are embedded in the community.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_01: So, speaking about community, um, can you share a moment when you saw the difference a community pharmacist made in a patient's life?
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_01: We'll start with you, Dr.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_01: Garcia.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um this really made me think through uh one of my most impactful moments uh as a pharmacist.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_00: I was, uh I've been off the bench now about three years.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but while I was a pharmacy manager at one of our local Smiths here, um, just to be a bit vulnerable in that season, my husband and I were going through um four years of infertility and pregnancy loss.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_00: And as heartbreaking as that season was, it provided me so much empathy in the community that I served, which is growing families.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_00: And I remember one patient in particular that had um, she was on her third pregnancy that year.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_00: She had lost the first two.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_00: And um we saw her prescriptions come through and we saw that she was on, you know, progesterone and and we were rooting for her and we knew her story.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_00: And uh about a month later, I did see a prescription come through for ibuprofen, and I knew in my heart that she had lost the baby.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_00: And so I put a counseling note to make sure they called me up when she picked up her meds, and she did come that afternoon, and they called me over one of my texts, and I walk over, and me and her just sat there and I just told her how sorry I was.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_00: And we both cried together at the counter, and um, it was heartbreaking but beautiful because she was seen in that moment.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_00: And I think oftentimes in in medicine, we can get so fixated on the plan and the next step.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_00: And okay, she came in, she's uh, you know, losing this baby.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_00: Here's the next steps, here's the medicine we need.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_00: This is, and but we were able just to even have 10 seconds together of just acknowledging the pain in it.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_00: And she was so grateful and came afterwards, and even then, and with tears in her eyes, she said, Thank you.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_00: Like she knew the heartbreak she was feeling.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_00: We felt it with her because we had been walking this journey with her for the year.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_00: And so it was just little things like that of like not losing the connection to people, you know, we're in a world of AI and and a world of uh direct-to-consumer, and and you can just kind of get things efficiently, but there is such value in relationship and face-to-face interaction.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_00: And so that one really comes to mind because it really did bless me in such a heart, heartbreaking moment that nothing is wasted.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_00: I I was able to be there for her in a way maybe others wouldn't have been.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_01: Wow, what a powerful story.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much for sharing that vulnerability with us today.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um, hard to follow up, but Dr.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_01: Han, you have as uh a moment that you can share about a community pharmacist has made in a patient life.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, no, I think I'm thank you so much for sharing your story with, you know, with us and really with everyone who's gonna be watching this.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but I think it's important to know that pharmacies or community pharmacies embedded in the community.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_02: We are also a part of the community as pharmacists who are serving.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_02: So these stories hit really close to home.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_02: I think when I think back on my time in the community, I think of things that are also related to me.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_02: Patients who are struggling to pay for prescriptions, especially those in our like older adult population.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_02: I think one of the biggest things I've had or biggest impacts I've had on patients is really trying to help them find ways to afford their medication, right?
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_02: I don't want to see my patients have to choose between food on the table, supplies for their children's schools or their grandchildren, um, or keeping themselves healthy.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_02: So being giving resources for students for students or for patients, such as the Medicare call center that we have to help give them connections to federal income programs that we have for our older adult patients.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_02: Um if it's a younger patient, maybe a new mother, I know that I had to utilize this and I've shared it with my patients in the past.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_02: Um, applications for the WIC program for different states.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_02: We are constantly learning about the programs that we have in our communities.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_02: We're experts from medications.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_02: We are the experts of how to solve some of the financial problems that our patients encounter.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_02: And we are a well of resources to help our patients get what it is they need.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_02: It could be a shoulder of someone who knows what they're going through.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_02: It could be programs that are available for them that they might not be able to have or they don't know about.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_02: Um I think those are the biggest differences I've seen that community pharmacies have had beyond or in addition to, you know, their medication expertise.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_01: So good.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much for sharing.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um, yeah, at the end of the day, our patients are real-like people, and it's wonderful to see healthcare professionals be able to connect in a humanistic way.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_01: Uh so pivoting a little bit, um, so Americans pharmace American Pharmacists Month's theme is caring for our communities, which is such a wonderful theme.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_01: I would like to get some gleam into what each of you, uh what this means for each of you when you see APHA having that stance, caring for our communities.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_01: Let's start with Dr.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_01: Han first.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think that's wonderful.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_02: Um I think um I love that message.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_02: And I think one of the best ways that pharmacists can help show care for our communities is really through education, knowledge, and power.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_02: So um how I care for my patients is, you know, empowering them with the tools that they need for their health care to meet their health goals, theirs, their families.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_02: And a lot of it is yes, medication, but education on how to use that medication, what are other things they can do in addition and outside of medication, um, but really how to meet their goals, their health goals.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so yeah.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_00: And I just love how you said like we are a part of the community as well.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_00: And so um every pharmacy really has its own heartbeat.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_00: You know, even if you're a big part of a big organization um such as myself, every pharmacy has um its own um environment, its own patient population it's caring for, things that they need to know in regards to resources uh that others may not need to.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so really being involved in community, in the what's going on in that environment, um, getting connected with local providers.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, that was something I was so passionate about being on the bench, is we would have, you know, a new pediatrician's office open up across the street from us.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_00: We made sure to go down there and introduce ourselves as the pharmacist there at this, at the local, you know, Smith's pharmacy and um and get to know the providers and see them face to face.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_00: I keep just coming back to that because I think we're living in such a um fast world that we sometimes can lose sight of what that face-to-face interaction looks like.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_00: And that way when they're we're getting their prescriptions, we um have that image in our mind.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_00: We can call them up, they have that image of us, you know, and and just building those relationships.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and this just kind of brings me to like uh one of my soapbox items that I just uh share with all my students that I have on rotation with me is just the term community pharmacy.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_00: Like I'm a proud community pharmacist because I want to care for those in my community.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I know oftentimes we hear uh retail pharmacy, and sometimes that's used interchangeably, but personally that's probably my least favorite term for what I do because retail just implies that we sell something.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_00: When I think of retail, I think of like Kohl's or somewhere you're gonna go buy socks or buy buy things, but um community just brings in that uh human interaction and that personal.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, we we see our patients shopping in our stores and we know their story.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_00: No other department really gets that level of intimacy.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't think we should take it lightly.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_01: That's so wonderful.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_01: So to uh go up on top of that, um, the role of a pharmacist is evolving and changing beyond just dispensing medications.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I'd like to ask each of you to share a little bit of detail on how the role of a pharmacist has changed over the course of each of your careers.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_01: Uh let's go ahead and start with you.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I graduated from Roseman in 2014 and um have been in community practice since 2006.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_00: So I was reflecting on that, that I've been in community for 20 years, started as at 18 as a pharmacy clerk in Southern California.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_00: And um, I fell in love with community because, again, the relationships that I saw the pharmacist have with the patients.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_00: And I am a very hard on my sleeve type of person.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_00: And as much as I loved hospital rotations and being in the hospital, it was so exciting and so impactful.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_00: I did not like seeing my patients in their sickest state.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_00: So I love seeing them more ambulatory and getting to see them again and again.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but gosh, the role has changed over the course of 20 years in so many ways, um, but has also remained solid in what patients expect, a safe and convenient place to pick up their meds.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um, gosh, when I graduated in 2014, I remember uh, you know, another very large pharmacy here had nurses come in to give vaccines to uh patients.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_00: And that quickly changed, or a few years after I graduated, you know, then it was more, more and more that pharmacists were becoming immunizers.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_00: And then look at us walking into 2020.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_00: And in 2021, it was community pharmacists that vaccinated America.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, and I just think about the impact we can have and the role.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so yeah, and then just point of care testing and different preventative care testing, strep, strep tests and COVID and flu, and then being able to prescribe um hormonal contraceptive prescribing.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_00: Those were things that were dreams when I was in pharmacy school and we've been able to see, but there's still, I feel like there's still so much more.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_00: We're constantly evolving.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_00: That's the one thing about pharmacy.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_00: You're never gonna be stagnant.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_00: You have to constantly be learning.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_02: I'm I agree, right?
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_02: I'm a graduate of the class of 2018, and I'm lucky enough to be licensed in two states.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_02: I'm licensed in Utah and Nevada, and just to see the different progress and in each state and also like nationally, the progress that pharmacists have made.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_02: We still have a long way to go.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_02: But I know Utah, during the time when I was a student, they did a big overhaul of their pharmacy act to help empower and give pharmacists, you know, to be able to practice at the top of their license to really help impact patient care, um, help with, you know, some of the prescribing abilities that they're able to do to help the team, to help the healthcare team.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_02: In Nevada, where there have been reforms to our collaborative practice agreements that have happened, there's still a lot of things that are changing in this state as well.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but so much growth has happened just in the time that I've graduated.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_02: I do have a unique perspective that my mother was also a pharmacist and she graduated in the early 90s.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_02: I think it was amazing to see her and watch her graduate.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_02: I think I was in the fifth grade or so when she did.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_02: So, but her also watching me become a pharmacist and what it was like when she graduated in the 90s, she wasn't, she is never given an immunization during the time that she practiced before she ended up retiring.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_02: And now I'm here at the university teaching pharmacy interns, you know, first year pharmacists to give immunizations to watch our impact during things like the pandemic.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_02: Just these are the things that, yes, my mother wished and she would have loved to participate while she was practicing.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_02: But it's not just in my time, but also with the generation ahead of us.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, what a beautiful perspective too.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_00: I forgot that detail about your mom being a pharmacist.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, just to see the the growth of our profession.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_00: And we get to have a say in that growth.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_00: I think that just brings us to advocacy and the importance of advocacy.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_00: When I was a student, I um, you know, I knew about the organizations, American Pharmacist Association and and uh, you know, Utah Pharmacy Association.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_00: And um, and it was okay, I'll sign up and be a member, but it was just kind of this passive membership, like, okay, I think this is just kind of what you do.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um, not realizing that, yeah, my voice matters and I can be um a change maker and I can be um a leader in my profession and have a say through uh politics.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_00: I never ever thought that going into pharmacy would lead me into advocacy in that way.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but you know, over the course of my career, I have been on the board for the Utah Pharmacy Association.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um I was uh the president of the Utah Pharmacy Association in 2020.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_00: If you had told me that in 2014 when I graduated, I probably would have laughed at you.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but the importance is there of being a voice because our profession is constantly changing.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_00: New drugs are constantly coming out.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and we have to uh we have to lead it in the direction that we want to go.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_01: What a great point.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_01: Uh so let's experiment a little bit on um expanded scope.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_01: So we talked a little bit about your career path and how uh immunizations is now something that is well known that pharmacists do.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um what are some outside of some of what you've already mentioned, or maybe provide a little bit more detail and context, as outside of immunizations, what are some services that pharmacists can do in your respective states that members of the community might not be aware of that are available to them?
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_00: You want me to go?
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_02: Uh I can go first.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, there's a lot of services.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's also dependent on state and uh the pharmacy that you're going to.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_02: But I mean, just off the top of my head, here are some examples, like the diabetes prevention program.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_02: A lot of bottle of pharmacies can help really impact and help patients manage, you know, their pre-diabetes status and helping them prevent it from progressing even more.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_02: These are national CDC recognized programs that pharmacists can lead and help their patients through the course of a year.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_02: If a patient already has diabetes, we have DSMES, which is diabetes self-management education programs, where our pharmacists are helping give our patients tools.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_02: They have this diagnosis.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_02: It can be life-changing and really overwhelming for our patients and really helping guide them through their medications, lifestyle, diet, these different things.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_02: Um, we do medication reviews, we watch for drug interactions.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_02: Um, we have the opportunity to have collaborative practice agreements with other providers for very specific other disease state managements that can help patients, whether it's pulmonary issues or other endocrine or issues.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_02: There's a wide opening for that where we can help work together and these services can be provided to our patients.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and ones that I think about and have a privilege of being a part of every year on Capitol Hill during pharmacy day on Capitol Here Hill here in Salt Lake City.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um I mean, we just just different point of care testing, um, such as um cholesterol panels, blood glucose, uh, A1Cs, um, also, you know, as I mentioned, doing like uh nasal flu, strep, COVID testing, being able to prescribe um hormonal contraceptive prescribing, as we mentioned, uh naloxone.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um uh so there's there is a lot that are we're able to do that was not thought of before.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_00: And then I just think of just continued, continued scope and continued practice.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you think um when I was in my residency, I was part of a uh blood pressure clinic where we were able to meet with patients that would come in to an ambulatory clinic and we would be able to change uh based on a protocol.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like things like that can bring such a can help the healthcare uh industry as a whole and help our patients as a whole, because we have primary care physicians that are overworked and highly burdened as well.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_00: Like we are a team and the patient is in the center.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_00: And so we have the ability, I mean, even just postpartum care, you know, there's so often the the rate when a baby is born, the baby has how many doctor's appointments within, you know, days even of being uh born.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_00: But how about postpartum care for the mom and transitions that brings me to transitions of care when people are transitioning out of the hospital?
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_00: How can the community pharmacist be there to help smooth that transition with a new diagnosis with a new baby at home?
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I just think that there's so much that we can do with that uh intimacy that we have with our patients.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_02: Such a great point.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_02: I just, yeah, I think a lot of the things that Dr.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_02: Hersia brings up, right?
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_02: We and things that we've mentioned earlier in this conversation, right?
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_02: We see our patients very frequently.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_02: We have that privilege, whether it's weekly or monthly or every 90 days, right?
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_02: We are able to see, you can do screenings, we have that access.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_02: And of course, we want to share that information with our other partners in healthcare to help our patients and their healthcare team.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_02: I think we have that unique opportunity, and I think that's areas for us to grow in.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_01: Awesome.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, so let's just shift a little bit and talk about our challenges and opportunities as pharmacists in the community.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_01: So we'll start with the hard one first.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_01: What are the challenges facing community pharmacists and pharmacy teams today, Dr.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_01: Garcia?
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, just you know, my vantage point as a district coordinator overseeing 17 pharmacies in this current season, staffing is a very big issue.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I think that's a a big reason.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_00: I there's a lot, multi-factor many factors that are going into that, um, including, you know, our pharmacy class sizes, uh, amount of students that are choosing to go into pharmacy.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um since I, you know, 12 years ago, I had, you know, had a class size uh in the hundreds, and we're seeing less and less.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_00: And so that obviously is gonna impact the profession and impact, you know, as people are retiring, our next uh generation.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: generation of pharmacist.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_00: So that is a big stressor because then the, I mean, the work is still there.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, we want to allow our teams to have those relationships with their patients and and not just um clear out cues.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's a big big passion of mine as well is, you know, so much of community practice is you come in and you have work to be done and you uh your success of the day is getting through those cues and getting through those that work and and processing that prescription.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_00: And my goodness, that's so important and that's the backbone of community practice.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_00: But when we are just looking at you know names in a queue versus people in front of us, I think that we've lost sight of why we got into the profession.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_00: So um the biggest challenge I think it would be staffing in the current moment, um, at least in you know the West uh area I can't speak nationally but I would uh assume based on trends that maybe this is a a problem we're seeing across the board.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_00: And then payment I think our payment models are still not there and that is driving the prioritizing the filling of prescriptions over the time spent with the patients because pharmacists still are not considered providers and able to bill for services just like you would go see your doctor or your eye doctor, your dentist like they can bill for the time that they spent with you the insurance, but uh pharmacy does not have that.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_00: So going back to the advocacy is we have to fight for for those things so that we can change what community practice looks like in the future and and help expand into more communities and more patients.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_00: And just even thinking of the rural communities the importance of having a community pharmacist there that if the hospital might be a hundred miles away.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah the staffing and and billing um I think are the biggest challenges I see.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_00: How about you, Dr.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_00: Han?
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_02: I mean I agree with so many of those things and as an educator in the pharmacy school we're in the college of pharmacy I want to help alleviate that I want to help educate our students to have all the tools in front of them and know what they're walking into and know ways to best be able to handle the situations.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_02: I do think a lot of the challenges though also lead us into a lot of opportunities for community pharmacy.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_02: There is a market where it is growing and there is a need for pharmacists right now, especially in the community sectors and the community areas, community companies, whether it is in cities or in rural areas there's an opportunity for our students to be huge advocates for our profession, right?
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_02: To help us in advocating for reimbursement for models, to speak at ports of pharmacy, to advocate on the national level as well.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_02: And I think there's a lot of services that we're able to provide as well.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_02: I know that dispensing fees and cover and payment models for that have been shrinking and have been harder times for our pharmacists to recover.
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_02: But there are also other areas where pharmacists can potentially bill and have be fight financially sustainable.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_02: And I think our students and our incoming generation of pharmacists are going to be a big proponent of that and big advocates of that and helping change the type in those areas.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_02: So I think the challenges also do provide opportunities for the next generation of pharmacists.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely and then almost just like a passionate thing that brought your your conversation brought to mind I mentioned earlier you know direct to consumer this is the first time since I've been in community practice for 20 years that we're seeing uh direct to consumer where manufacturers are able to get a prescription and ship medication directly to a patient's house.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_00: And again, we are in a a world of convenience and efficiency and uh you know Amazon deliveries daily and um and so you know it makes sense that pharmacy and community practice would expand into that as well with delivery models and and those are things that we are seeing expanding in in um in my practice as well.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_00: But it just brings back to the importance of your pharmacist.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah you get something dropped off at your house who are you calling for questions guess what they're still calling their community pharmacy that didn't fill the prescription that didn't and they're asking us those questions because they don't have someone readily available or a face that they know or a name that they know.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_00: Hey is Jamie there can I speak with her real quick um so it's just brings back to I'm all about efficiency.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_00: I think there is a place for AI in uh community practice and I mean in so many workforces um but cautiously uh approach that into not taking away the importance of that face-to-face interaction and knowing who your pharmacist is.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah that's there's this balance of the new technologies and the tools that are available like how do we use them as tools while still maintaining us being community pharmacists and integrated in a part of it and where patients feel safe to come to us and are having these really open and vulnerable conversations with us.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_02: While a tool like AI and our things can be something that can help with some efficiencies and such, it's it still needs both pieces.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely wonderful um so you mentioned about how we're teaching our students at Roseman University to have those tools in order to be successful in their careers.
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm going to pivot and talk a little bit about Roseman University's College of Pharmacy and how that Doctor of Pharmacy program prepares graduates for community practice.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_01: So my first question is what advice would you give to students who are considering a career in pharmacy and what Roseman would bring to them in that preparation of becoming a community pharmacist?
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_01: Let's start with Dr.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_01: Han.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_02: So many ways I can try and take this I might have to come back and answer this in in multiple ways but I think the first thing my advice to students who are interested in pharmacy is really keep an open mind.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_02: There's so many routes that you can go in pharmacy school.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_02: I am a huge advocate Dr.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_02: Garcia is a huge advocate of community pharmacy because we are community pharmacists but I also understand that there are other areas Dr.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_02: Gundram yourself you you are an oncology pharmacist I have colleagues that are in clinics I have colleagues that are working in palliative care, in cardiology pediatrics for students who are interested in being a part of the healthcare team I think pharmacy is a wonderful area for them to explore.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_02: And I think there are so many avenues if you are someone who wants to learn more about you know medication and interactions I think that's great.
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_02: If you want to be a leader you know in healthcare all pharmacists are leaders.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_02: I learned a lot of my leadership skills from both of you as my former faculty member and now colleague and my former residency preceptor as well and now colleague also in Smiths too I think there's a huge avenue for that.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_02: If you want to be a problem solver a lot of what we do in pharmacy is problem solving and being proactive and those are the skills that you develop in pharmacy school to prepare you for your career.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_02: And if you just you love learning pharmacy is changing so quickly and so much there's new medications there are uh we are advocating for changes if you are someone who loves to learn and loves to stay up to date pharmacy is a great option um but I I think yeah there anything else to add there Dr.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_00: Garcia I mean yeah Roseman um was such an amazing choice for me.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_00: I I came from Southern California I went to a uh UC Riverside a very big university um for my undergrad and when I came to Roseman I mean it felt like community I know that's our like theme word of the day but truly it did coming from you know a where I had classes 300 plus in a lecture hall to walking on campus and being known by my professors, being greeted in the morning, being seen in the classroom, even you know going from to a class of 100, I still felt known and seen.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_00: The three year program um was accelerated, but it um was focused and it was where my heart was and what I wanted to do.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_00: So um the collaborative uh work that I had with my classmates and even the interdisciplinary um I mean that was back in 20 you know 2011 to 2014 is when I was there and and I remember having a class with the dentist uh the dentistry students and um that was maybe one of the first uh where they where there's more integration of interdisciplinary and that really stuck with me even my whole career like I said even when I was a pharmacy manager feeling uh confident to walk into the dentist office that was across the across the way in the parking lot and go uh build a relationship with them talk about you know mutual benefits we talked about HPV vaccine and obviously they're doing the oral screenings um so there was a lot of collaboration there and that's I mean we're not siloed and I I think that's a really important part for students to remember that we're all a part of the healthcare team with the patient in the center.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_00: And so we can't talk at the patient or to the patient.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_00: We have to have them on board with what their goals are and help them to get there through resources.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_00: But um pharmacy school was a wonderful wonderful route for me to go brought me to Utah obviously I loved it and have been here ever since but community practice and and residency um I that's just one piece I'll I'll plug in because I didn't know about community residencies until I was in my last year of pharmacy school.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_00: And thank goodness I had a really great leader who saw me and knew my heart for community practice and said why aren't you doing a residency?
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like well I thought it was a silly question because I was like well I'm not going into the hospital like in my mind that's all I saw was hospital-based residencies, maybe an AMCARE residency, which intrigued me but my heart was community.
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_00: And so that opened up to being the inaugural resident for Smith's and gosh what a privilege to have Michelle as one of our residents a few years later and the relationship that we've had ever since.
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_00: And um but if you're going into pharmacy school you're going into leadership.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_00: This is something I tell all my students on rotation I I hear often like well I just want to be a staff pharmacist.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_00: I just want to be a float pharmacist like I I hate this that disqualifier of just a staff.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_00: No, you're a leader.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_00: You are the leader of that department you are running that sh that team you are constantly triaging and um so no matter what route of pharmacy you go to which keep your mind open because I was blown away with how many options there are in pharmacy um if community's not your thing there research academia there's so so much specialty there there's so much to do um but yeah just going in there with an open mind and uh and wanting to be a part of the team and be a leader but you are a leader regardless of what route you go you leadership if you don't love it learn to love it because this is what pharmacists are.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_02: I'm just gonna add one more thing I think I really loved hearing your story about what brought you to residency.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_02: And I think I'm gonna share a little bit about my story of how I even learned about community residency.
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_02: And I think it also goes to a point of my experience at Roseman.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_02: So the first person who ever told me about community residency, I was a second year student and it was my dean who actually told me about community residency because my dean at the time he was a community resident previously before he became dean.
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_02: And I had this conversation with my dean.
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_02: Now a dean of a college if you had told me an undergrad that I would be having that sort of interaction with a dean I would have just looked at you and been like I couldn't even tell you who the dean was in my undergrad institution.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_02: But Rosen really created an environment where the faculty members were not just training students but their future colleagues like I felt such a close relationship with my faculty, my staff, my dean to have these conversations that really shape the course of my career.
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_02: And look at me now right I am now working in colleagues with one of my faculty teachers who's right here, like Dr.
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_02: Gundrum you're the one who taught me oncology and now we are both directors of student affairs together, right?
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_02: Our adjunct faculty who are coming in and who are teaching us Dr.
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_02: Garcia, you were adjunct faculty and you're teaching your students who are now Smith's pharmacists and working on your teens.
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that's something very unique to have here at Roseman in our college is that close relationship that we all have, knowing that one day we will be working together very, very soon.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_02: So I think that is a highlight of our program.
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, the cliche piece of pharmacy is a small world but it is and um we are growing uh professionals and who are going to be our colleagues.
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_00: Every student I have I think of them as you know my colleague um down the road and training them up to be a leader.
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_00: And um yeah what a privilege to be here today with you know interacting with you guys over the course of my career and got to see you Michelle blossom into such a fabulous pharmacist and leader and advocate for students is honestly the why behind why we do this and why we pour into people.
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_00: Residency takes um a lot of work to give feedback and pour into others but man when we lift others up we're lifted to you know and our profession is greater because of it.
• 35:31
  unknown: Yeah.
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much for your comments about Roseman University's culture on campus.
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_01: I I'm also very excited to be here with both of you alumni of our pharmacy program.
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_01: So we did talk a little bit about residency.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_01: Residency as you know is not a mandatory component as a future pharmacist this is optional training after graduation.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_01: So I want to pivot back to that doctorate of pharmacy degree that is offered at Roseman University and we do have that six-point mastery learning model that has been discussed on previous podcasts here at Roseman36C.
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_01: I was just wondering what is your favorite part of the six-point mastery learning model and how that impacted your learning and becoming a PharmD pharmacist we'll start with Michelle.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_02: Okay I think I talked a little bit of I had if I had to pick two I think one would be the active and collaborative learning and I think I shared a little bit about that so I'm gonna pick my other one and that's gonna be early to experiential.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_02: I am a former director of experiential education so that might bias me a little bit in this but I think one of the my favorite parts is how quickly when I was a student I had never been in a pharmacy before yes my mother was a pharmacist but I was not a technician before I was not a clerk before I was very new to it all.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_02: But when I was a student at Roseman I was in a pharmacy within two months of starting my program and as intimidating as that sound I'm so thankful for that experience.
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_02: I was able to learn about medications like metformin and other diabetes medications and then be able to work with patients who are on those medications and provide those counseling so early on I was seeing them in practical use.
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_02: And then also one of the huge things about being a pharmacist and especially community pharmacist is communication and counseling and learning how to communicate with patients efficiently effectively and there's no better it's hard to learn from a textbook you're not gonna learn that from a deck of slides you're gonna learn by doing and I was able to practice and develop those skills over all three years that I was a student.
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_02: And a lot of that had to do with because we are we start our students early on their rotations I felt I had the support I was given the training that I needed the basics of um counseling the workflow from my institute from from my college and I'm so thankful for that because I had time to learn and practice so early on I love that I absolutely agree.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_00: I just think back to my preceptors that I had um who saw something in me and who tailored the experience to what I was bringing in and what I lacked and helped me grow.
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_00: And so many of those preceptors that I was on rotation with 12 years ago 15 years ago now are my colleagues today that I look up to and I'm so grateful for.
• 38:21
  SPEAKER_00: And so it is so important.
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_00: Again, we're not in a silo and we are building up the next generation of pharmacists and you're talking about the problem solving.
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_00: I mean one of the things I loved about Roseman was the groups.
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_00: I loved being with a group and studying with them and we're doing our tests together and um just even how to like conflict resolution, right?
• 38:45
  SPEAKER_00: That's part of a pharmacy and you have to de-escalate situations and you have to find solutions to problems.
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that um really helped me in building relationships with my team.
• 38:56
  SPEAKER_00: And it was just so fun at a recent career fair to run into one of my teammates who's now a coordinator for another large pharmacy here in Salt Lake and we got to be the I mean it was just so cool to see how we've both grown in our careers and remembered and reminisce on the time that we were you know at Roseman till 11 p.m studying for an exam together and um but that was uh that was a really positive experience for me.
• 39:24
  SPEAKER_01: Oh wonderful I love to hear as an educator that importance of team based learning and leaning on your partners it's it's truly not a competition.
• 39:33
  SPEAKER_01: We're all in this together at the end of the day.
• 39:35
  SPEAKER_00: When you think of the pharmacy department it's not a one man show you are dependent on your technicians then shout out to our techs like I pharmacists could not do what they do if it wasn't for pharmacy technicians.
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_00: So they are backbone to our success and our patient success and now our vaccinating I mean you talked about the growth of pharmacy um we have technicians who are immunizing it's just so amazing and wonderful and they are so skilled and talented to do so.
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_00: But yes it's not a one man show and so you you have to embrace collaboration especially in community practice and lean on one another and I feel like Roseman really helped with that.
• 40:15
  SPEAKER_01: So we truly are a farmer in the pharmacy.
• 40:18
  SPEAKER_01: It's true.
• 40:18
  SPEAKER_01: So one last question um before we close if listeners remember one thing about their local pharmacist this American pharmacist month in October what would you want it to be?
• 40:31
  SPEAKER_01: We'll start with Dr.
• 40:32
  SPEAKER_01: Han.
• 40:33
  SPEAKER_02: Really it's communicating with your pharmacist and making that connection if you um feel comfortable like with your pharmacist it's gonna help impact your health in so many ways.
• 40:45
  SPEAKER_02: Let them know what your medications are.
• 40:47
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe if you don't feel everything at that pharmacy that's okay but as long as your pharmacist is aware they can check for drug interactions with other medications from other pharmacies.
• 40:56
  SPEAKER_02: If you're feeling side effects if you're got concerns you have questions having that relationship with your pharmacy can make all the difference and having that resource with someone that you feel comfortable and safe with.
• 41:06
  SPEAKER_02: And if you do feel that way right help advocate for their for them right it goes both ways.
• 41:11
  SPEAKER_02: Your pharmacist is going to be advocating and fighting for you and helping you meet all of your goals and to have that two-way street I think would be amazing where you also fight for them as well.
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah I would absolutely agree with that um we've talked a lot about relationships and just the intimate relationships that we get to have with our communities and relationships go two ways.
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_00: It can't just be one person pouring in and giving feedback and give and interacting and it goes both ways.
• 41:39
  SPEAKER_00: So if you don't know your pharmacist name, find out your pharmacist name and get to know them and let them get to know you.
• 41:47
  SPEAKER_00: You know uh that being able to I have a pharmacist in Heber and he has been in that community and has grown up in that community and his team calls him and they want to speak with Jack because that's their pharmacist and they know you know who he is and they trust him.
• 42:02
  SPEAKER_00: And trust is built on relationship.
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_00: And so um your pharmacists are very skilled experts and I know sometimes you might not see them right up front as often but call them up to get to know them and ask your question because uh they they want the best for you.
• 42:21
  SPEAKER_00: We want the best for our communities to keep them healthy.
• 42:24
  SPEAKER_00: And uh it all starts with relationships.
• 42:28
  SPEAKER_01: Incredible it's just so wonderful to listen to two alumni great shining examples of pharmacists who are putting the heart back in healthcare.
• 42:37
  SPEAKER_01: So thank you so much for your time.
• 42:39
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you both for joining us and for the care that you bring your patients and your profession.
• 42:45
  SPEAKER_01: As we've heard today community pharmacists are trusted accessible and increasingly essential healthcare members of the team this American Pharmacist Month we'll hope that you'll take a moment to thank the pharmacists who care for your community.
• 43:00
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for listening or watching this episode of Rosem360 we'll hope you'll subscribe to YouTube, Apple Podcasts Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts.
• 43:10
  SPEAKER_01: In the weeks and months ahead you'll hear from a variety of hosts and guests as we continue exploring the people, ideas, research and innovations that are shaping healthcare and improving lives.
• 43:22
  SPEAKER_01: I'm Dr.
• 43:23
  SPEAKER_01: Danielle Guntram.
• 43:24
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks again for joining us on Rosebund360