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Writing Romance Across Genre—Cozy Mysteries to Rom-Coms · Reality Writes

• 0:06
  SPEAKER_01: Hello, hello, and welcome to a special love episode of Reality Rights.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_01: Aww.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_01: I'm author.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_01: Awwww.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, wait, I've got a sound effect for that.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, okay.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_01: I'm author Ellie Alexander, and I'm here with the tech guy.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_00: All tech, uh the sound effect guy, too.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_01: This is the podcast where we talk about all things bookish, reader-ish, writer-ish, and everything in between.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_01: And uh today we're gonna dive into some love themes.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_01: Am I right?
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_00: Is it gonna get spicy?
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_00: Do I have to put when I upload this episode?
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_00: Do I have to put the flag on it?
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_00: That's like, is are there things that like this is 18 and up?
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_00: Or are we still safe for work?
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_00: Right, right.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_01: No, but that is my favorite um thing that I see um when I'm scrolling, especially on Instagram, is readers, darlings out there, who are at their office desk and they've got their headphones on and they're listening to a spicy read, and suddenly like their headphones die, and the whole office hears what they're listening to.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_00: Oh Jeff's kiss.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I know.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so funny.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_00: That could be bad sometimes.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_01: Or I was chatting with the reader the other day who was talking about the fact that um they were dropping off their kids at like preschool and they had their spicy audiobook on on high in the parking lot and was like, oh wait, hold on.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe I shouldn't be listening to this right now.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_01: Uh-uh.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, but no, uh I'm pretty mild on the spice because I came from the cozy world.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_01: Uh so but we'll talk about that too, right?
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_01: And the differences.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_00: Totally.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, cool.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_00: Well, uh, first up, I just want to mention again that um uh, you know, this is reality rights, and we're talking about writing.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_00: So uh a very novel murder.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_00: The first book in the novel detective series came out uh just a few weeks ago, and um it's gotten great feedback so far.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_00: Uh so that's exciting.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_01: And the whisking hour is out in just a little over another week.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_01: So many books.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_01: It's a book bonanza.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_00: Oh man, you stole my thunder.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_00: I was gonna close this episode with a mention of the whisking hour, but okay.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_00: No, that's fine.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_00: This is what this is how it goes, darlings.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_01: I've got whisking on my mind.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_01: I can't help myself.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_01: I gotta whisk everything right now.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_01: We're whisking, we're whisking eggs, we're whisking souffles.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_00: Totally.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um, all right.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_00: And uh and then also for the darlings out there who are patrons over on uh Ellie's Patreon, uh, please be sure to tune in for the after party where things will get spicy.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um, they probably won't.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_00: But but okay, there'll be fun stuff.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_00: Fun to be had regardless.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_00: But it'll probably be PG, maybe PG 13 at the at the at the worst.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_00: But uh okay, so we're talking rom-coms, we're talking romance and cozies.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um where do we even start?
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_01: Where do we start?
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I think we should start um, you know, if we're talking about me and my career path, um, that sort of the cozy mystery has been the gateway drug to writing some rom-coms for sure.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_01: Because um, I've always added a layer of love in all of my stories.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_01: Because yes, I historically have written mysteries, quite a lot of them, right?
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_01: But um, I don't think you can separate the the humanness out of that.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_01: And so a mystery doesn't exist in a vacuum if Juliet, and I mean, first of all, come on, her name is Juliet Montague Capshaw.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_01: Of course, of course, she's going to have love drama in her life.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but even Meg, my, my OG sleuth, um, is pining away for her best friend Matt.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_01: Actually, she's really crushing on her boss, who she shouldn't be.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but she slowly learns, right?
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_01: She learns that she's got to find love in the right places.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_01: So um, you know, I think I've always had those elements in um my mysteries, and I enjoy that as a mystery reader.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_01: Like um, one of the first series that I fell in love with was uh Kate Carlyle's Bibliophiles series.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_01: And um, Brooklyn has this dashing um perhaps CIA agent, F by A.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_01: I don't want to give away too many spoilers, but he's got he's got a secret life.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_01: Uh Derek, who um is whining and dining her and and um kind of the arc of that, or like I remember reading Reese Bowen and um Georgie's love arc.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_01: So I enjoy that as a cozy mystery fan.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_01: I like it when that is an element.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_01: The balance becomes how much of that do you weave in?
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_01: And then there are, of course, a lot of tropes that end up playing out, like, is your sleuth gonna come back and fall in love with the sheriff or the detective in town?
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_01: That kind of thing.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_00: Right, right.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_00: So so you've they've you've always had elements, like all you've even the sl the Sloan Cross mysteries um definitely has has these elements and everything.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_00: Are these romantic elements something that every cozy series has?
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_00: If someone's new to the genre, is this something that they can expect?
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_01: No, definitely not.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_01: Not every um, not every cozy has a romantic element.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_01: And there is a subset, and darlings, you should weigh in on this, but there's definitely a subset of cozy readers who are not fans of any sort of love.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_01: They don't want their murder and their rom-coms to mingle.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_01: They want them separate.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_01: They want a body, they want those suspects, they want to keep moving on.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_01: So that's why I'm talking about I do think um, yeah, I do think as um uh from the writing perspective, it is important to strike a balance.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_01: That, you know, for me, that's always like a thin layer.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, if if we're talking about um, if we use the bake shop, let's use some baking analogies.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_01: The cake itself, the sponge cake is the body, the murder, the plot of that.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_01: The frosting is all of the embellishments of Ashland and like bringing the setting and the characters to life.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_01: And maybe the like sprinkles or the fine piping work would be the layer of how much romance I want to weave in.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_01: So it's really just it's a touch or it's part of a character's bigger arc, right?
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_01: Like Sloan, this is not a spoiler, but like we find out pretty much on page one that her husband is cheating on her.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_01: So that that is how the book opens.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_00: We're right in the that was spicy.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_01: That was spicy, yeah.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we see his bare ass.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my gosh, I said ass.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_01: And that was huge back in the day because that released in hardcover, so I could say ass.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_00: That's so funny to me.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_00: We got to talk about that in in an episode.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_00: Or we just we I think we just did one recently on formats and stuff, but like the fact that it was okay to include that just because it was in hardcover.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_00: Like people are paying more for this book, so you can use different words.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_01: Uh-huh.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_01: I still love that because it's like, you know, you find your husband's cheating on you, and you're like, oh, shucks.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_01: Come on.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_01: But anyway, um in that we, you know, like right from the start, that is how we that's how we are introduced to Sloan.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_01: So we get to know her from that lens.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_01: And over the course of multiple books, she starts to develop a real a friendship, a partnership, and then ultimately a relationship with one of the other characters.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_01: But that happens naturally.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_01: It's not like, you know, it's it's forced upon her.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_01: You know, like maybe in those early um first few books, there's like this little spark, or she's starting to be like, okay, well, maybe I could love again after this horrible experience.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_01: And then, you know, that opens her up.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_01: So um I think I think if you're adding a layer of romance to a cozy, there needs to be a strong motive and an intention and a reason behind it that always loops back to your character's growth arc and the story they're trying to grow into.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we talked about subplots a couple episodes ago in in Cozy Mystery series.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_00: So is that one of the reasons that like this the this, you know, because it is a growth arc, is that why it gets stretched out over multiple books like in a series?
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_00: The romantic elements, that is.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_01: The romantic elements, yeah.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_01: Because those don't usually happen overnight, you know.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_01: It's um sometimes it's a slow burn.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_00: That's not what Hallmark shows me.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_00: It happens like that night, like first date type stuff.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_01: Well, Drat.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_01: Well, dang, uh, what other non-swear words can I say?
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_01: I better go back and revisit.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_01: No, yeah.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's definitely um, I just want that in my writing to feel as natural to what would happen in the real world, you know, especially um Sloane's a great example because she's coming off a a divorce, or not even she's not even divorced.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_01: Like she's just been slapped in the face by this horrible thing.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_01: And so she's having to like put herself back together and figure out who she is.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_01: And then once she's able to do that, she starts to have space to open up to find love.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_01: And that that kind of happened with Jules too, because at the beginning she leaves Carlos, um, her husband on the ship, and then she comes home and she um meets back up again with her high school love, um, who happens to be um a burgeoning detective in town.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_01: So I think I think there were some.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um there are some darlings I want to hear from you that might have thought that, you know, I was gonna follow that trope, but ultimately um we'll have to see if she does or not.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_01: I won't give any spoilers.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I do think there's there's something really innate about that idea of like, okay, can you go home again?
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_01: And if you if you meet up with somebody who you knew when you were in high school and loved then, but you're this whole d different person, does it work?
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_01: So um I always want to explore those kind of like layers and themes.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_01: I don't want it to just be cheesy of like, okay, and he met the hunky detective and they rode off in the sunset happily ever after.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_00: Well, and the bake shop's a great example because that particular romantic element, it it generated a lot of fan reader support in the in the sense that there were literally teams.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_00: There was team Carlos and Team Thomas, and people got into it in the comments and on social media and in reviews and everything, like going back and forth about where Jules should end up and like how it should happen.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_00: And it was it was pretty fun to watch.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um, for a cozy mystery series, I felt like that was like it was a big um uh a big subplot, uh very popular subplot, I guess.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_01: No, that was so fun.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_01: I distinctly remember when we had the launch party for a crime of passion fruit, and a whole crew of darlings showed up in their Team Thomas and then their team Carlos shirts.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_01: And I I didn't know that was gonna happen.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and it was so cool to be like, oh my gosh, I I wasn't um I actually I hadn't set out to write that kind of love triangle initially.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_01: That that hadn't been my intention at all.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_01: I thought I knew exactly what was gonna happen in book one.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um and Carlos didn't get very developed for that reason for a couple of books, because I really initially thought he was gonna be a toss-away character.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_01: And then as I got deeper into the story and I got to know Jules more and also freaking Carlos, who every time I was writing, and we've talked a lot about the fact that I do some pretty extensive outlines before I start writing, so I know where the story was going.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_01: But every other day I'd be down in my office and it's like, Ulieta, I'm like, no, you're not in this scene.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_01: Get out, no.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so sometimes, like, I don't know, that creative force just kind of leads you somewhere else, which I think is great.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it's one of the reasons as a writer, you know, you you can plot so much, but then you also have to stay open to see where the story's gonna take you to.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, for the darlings out there, that was a super fun time for me as the tech guy, uh husband or the author, to have this like super hot, fictitious Spanish hunk talking to my wife every day.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_00: That was fun.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_00: Super fun.
• 12:57
  unknown: Yeah.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_01: I know, and you'd be like, where's Carlos from?
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_01: I really don't.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_01: I legit, but yeah, sorry.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_00: Super fun.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yep, yeah.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_00: Happy Valentine's Day.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_00: Be curious to see if it would be okay if it had happened the other way around, but you know, whatever.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, no chance.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_00: We'd digress.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um, okay, so you've got all this experience writing these romantic elements and and subplots throughout multiple series, really, but but definitely with just even with just the bake shop, that's like uh a lot of experience there.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_00: And then last year, one of your publishers was like, Hey, you know what?
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_00: We'd like you to write a rom-com.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, actually, we'd like you to write two rom-coms.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah what was your reaction?
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what walk walk the walk the darlings through like what you were like, wait, I I write cozy mysteries.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_01: No, okay, so that's not entirely how it happened, though.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_01: I had already written one of the rom coms, and it was sitting in the um yes.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_01: So like I had already dipped a toe into writing a rom-com, but I hadn't done anything with it.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_01: I'd written like a second draft of a rom-com.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_01: And um, it had been sitting in a closet since COVID.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_01: And when I was chatting with my editor, she she was asking, like, what else do I have?
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what else what I might want to write in the next few years?
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_01: And I tossed that out.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_01: And she was like, Yes, that.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_01: And then um, they were going to republish Meg.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_01: And so I was like, hey, it would be so fun to bring Meg back again, like 10 or 15 years later.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_01: Let's see how she's grown.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then that all ended up after a long brainstorming session, instead of being a murder of being a romance for Meg, too.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_01: So um, yeah.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_01: I still like I still can't believe that kind of all worked out.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and it is sometimes about timing because I had written that rom-com, it had just been sitting there, taken up space, um, and then it's like the right person found it at the right time.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_00: That's right.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_00: No, I I I remember now clued into love because we were we had talked a lot about just the whole like scavenger hunt type of uh you know um trope, I guess, and and like how that would, you know, work into it.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_00: And super fun book, but um how like talk a little bit about the differences between the two genres because you've we're we'll get into it, but you've got a couple more rom-com projects coming up.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um so yeah.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um you know, when I wrote Clued into Love, it came really fast because um it's not the same in terms of the plot points and the work that goes into not the work, but like the amount of plotting you have to do for a mystery is different than a rom-com.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I we talked about this on an earlier episode, I think, at length.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_01: But, you know, just to sort of recap for any darlings who might have missed that one, with a mystery, you need a body and suspects and a sleuth and this whole other um world of the supporting cast of characters.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if I said a victim, uh, you need a victim.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then everything is right, you need a body.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and then, you know, the whole book, the plot is being driven by trying to solve this puzzle.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_01: You have to weave in red herrings and send a sleuth down a dark alley and all of those sort of things.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_01: That doesn't happen in a rom com.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_01: It's so much more about character growth, connection, um, you know, chemistry, what brings somebody together, something that ultimately tears them apart, and then how they find their way back together at the end.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_01: So it's a much um, it's a much cleaner arc, I would say.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_01: And so when I wrote Clued into Love, it came really fast.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_01: But then when I went back and worked on it, you know, to really develop it, it it was it's much meatier in terms of the layers that you need to edit.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_01: And then the same is true for um A Cozy Kind of Christmas, which was the Meg story.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_01: And it was harder, I would say, with Meg, because I wrote Clued into Love as a rom-com.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um, with Meg, because I had written so many mysteries for Meg, I kept thinking like, oh, and then she goes to find the nope, she's nobody.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_01: Nope.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_00: That that's well, that's interesting.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_00: Cause I was gonna ask, like, you've talked before about like how you know what's easier about writing a rom-com versus a cozy mystery, but that that is interesting.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_00: Like you brought up a couple of things there that so there are some things that are actually harder.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um or equally as hard, I should say.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, more they're challenging in different ways, maybe.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, interesting.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um well, you so a cozy kind of Christmas, include into love.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um, those came out uh and uh you had a great time writing them and everything.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_00: And now you're moving on to um some fall settings.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_01: Cozy fall.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um yeah, I do think for me, like so much of my writing is sensory based, and that idea of like building these worlds and these communities and these characters who care about each other.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so I was brainstorming ideas with my editor, and she's like, you know, fall is so fun right now, and everybody is loving those fall vibes.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_01: Do you have any ideas?
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I had just seen this meme of this woman who went to Portugal with her daughter.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and in Portugal, she comes back and all of her footage from the trip is like her toe, or you see, like, you know, the beautiful scenery of I don't, I don't remember if it was Portugal.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_01: I think it was Portugal though.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um, the beautiful um scenery behind her, but instead of seeing the scenery, it's just like a dump truck that is coming by.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_01: Like clearly her photo taking skills were not phenomenal.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and the comments were just hilarious, where it was like, protect this woman at all cost.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_01: She is my mom, she's every mom, like all the things.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_01: And I had this spark of an idea that I was like, oh my gosh, it would be so fun to have sort of like an accidental travel influencer, somebody in their 50s who is not super tech savvy, who's definitely not able to create these gorgeous aesthetics that you see on most of the travel feeds and like explore that.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so that's that's where we're going with um the first, well, actually, both of um these fall duets that are gonna come out.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_01: A fall to remember is the first one, and it's gonna feature Miranda Brown, who lives in Half Moon Bay, which is right by us.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_01: We've been to Half Moon Bay a couple times, and I was like, Oh, I have to set a book here.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_01: Perfect.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_01: And they have this amazing fall pumpkin festival where the pumpkins that come in now, I mean, they're like 2,000 pounds.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_01: It's ridiculous.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_00: I think they're even heavier than that.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_00: Uh they're but they're it it is it's a big deal.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I mean, pun intended.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_00: Uh it uh no, it's uh it's very popular.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and um and half moon bay is just a gorgeous place all year round, but definitely in the fall, um, that is definitely true.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_00: So um a lot of inspiration there, I guess.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of inspiration, yeah, and so much fun to work with.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_01: And um to loop back to the whole spice thing, like that's not my lane.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_01: I'm I'm well aware of like I don't I don't read things that are super spicy either.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_01: It's just and there's no shade there at all.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_01: And glad like I have lots of friends who do.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_01: I have lots of friends who write that.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_01: It's just not my particular like go-to.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_01: I love like a classic rom-com, like all of the 80s and 90s movies when Harry met Sally and my best friend's wedding and all of those throwback, um, Nodding Hill, sliding doors, like we don't we don't get rom-coms like that so much anymore.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_01: I miss that.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but what I do know that I tend to lean into more is like female connection and friendship.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, in everything that I've written, which is only two out and two more to come so far, but everything that I've written in this world, it's it's multiple points of view and it's that idea of like multiple storylines that intersect.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, maybe you have a woman that's um, you know, retired and then you have a 20-something.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_01: And I love writing from multiple perspectives and seeing those stories weave together.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_01: So for me, the focus is as much on female friendship and points of connection as it is romance.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_01: The romance Is almost secondary, dare I say.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, they are true rom-comps, but um it's you're gonna get not like a lot of spice, no spicy bedroom scenes at all.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, I I know that.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_00: Uh talk a little bit about like I mean, obviously a totally different genre.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_00: You talked about some of the differences between the um the two Cozy Mystery and and rom-com, and then some of the similarities, but like how do you how like how have you written these books and rolled them out um and and kept your longtime cozy mystery reading audience engaged and interested?
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um how much how much crossover is there?
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_01: I don't I don't know is the truth to that answer because I'm so new to um writing these.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_01: And um, you know, I don't, I can't, I can't fathom never writing mysteries.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_01: Like I love writing mysteries.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_01: It's just in my blood now.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but it's also fun at this stage of my career to do something that is challenging too and like shaking me out of that box a little bit.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_01: I think I think my mysteries are better for writing the rom-coms too, because it's it's teaching me new things.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then as far as audience crossover, it's interesting because um I think there is some crossover, but then there's a lot that doesn't crossover.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_01: And there are brand new readers now who have discovered me only because of the two rom-coms, and they had no idea that I have this backlist of mysteries.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then I've had some cozy mystery darlings out there who read a rom-com for the first time and are like, I don't usually, Ellie, but I'll try it for you, um, which is so sweet.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_01: And you don't have to either.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_01: Like I totally appreciate it, and it's okay if you want a body, I get it.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_00: Totally.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_00: There's uh um, yeah, the the body would be the key missing piece, I guess.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_00: But uh, but you get you get a bit of both uh with the cozy mysteries.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_00: So um yeah, yeah.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_00: Uh what's what has been your favorite part about writing the rom coms uh versus writing the cozy mysteries?
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, that's a good question.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um I love it.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't have to be just one.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_01: If you've got multiple, you can you can give people a bonus reason to yeah, I love the uh um sort of the atmosphere that it creates.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_01: Like um right now I have uh the When Harry Met Sally playlist going for this particular rom com because that's Miranda's like go-to for fall.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so for right now, it's like all the fall vibes.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_01: We're basically in summer here in California, even though it's February.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but you know, I I'm like soaking up like all the goldenrod and orange tones, and um, there's so much sensory scene setting you get to do.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_01: And uh, what's really so fascinating from a writing perspective that's completely different than anything else I've ever experienced with writing mysteries, again, because they're so plot-driven and I have a clear sense of like the points that I need to hit in terms of all of the suspects and what they're gonna reveal is that with the rom com, every day that I sit down, like I I know that like, you know, the couples are gonna meet at the beginning, they're gonna have this spark, something's gonna tear them apart, and then at the end they're gonna meet together.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_01: But like everything in between is just totally unknown.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so every day when I sit down or stand up to write, uh, I'm I'm surprised.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_01: And it it's been scary a little bit too, which I think is the good part about pushing yourself um and taking myself out of my comfort zone because I'll be like, oh no, like what is gonna happen next?
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_01: Like I left off on chapter 23 yesterday, and what's gonna happen in 24?
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_01: Like I'm they were at this like fall harvest fest bonfire.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_01: So, like, what's happening the next morning?
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_01: So um, but then magically, as I get into the story and I start writing, of course, like okay, now the next thing happens and the next thing.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so it's it's more discovery-based, maybe is a is how I would describe it.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, it's interesting.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_00: For me, uh is you know, uh looking as an outsider looking in, I guess.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um it's been I know fall is your favorite season, so like getting but but and you've talked about this in multiple episodes of Reality Rights before, but it is pretty funny to see like you know, a fall screensaver on your computer, or to see like fall pictures pinned to boards in in your in your office space and everything when you know the poppies are blooming, the roses are blooming, their oranges and lemons are just you know plentiful on trees right now and everything, and and you've got all these red and amber tones in in your office.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_00: And the same was true for the the holiday rom-coms because you were writing those much earlier in the year, and it was hilarious.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_00: I'd be walking by and I'd hear like Christmas tunes playing while you were in writing.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_00: That was like it just seeing stuff like that and hearing things like that out of season are are uh kind of uh par for the course in this household.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_01: We're just used to it now.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_01: Spirit.
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's uh the publishing schedule and release schedule being what it is, you're never writing about a season in the season that you're currently in in real life in the book.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_00: You know, so it's it never lines up.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um but I you're you're definitely in your happy place writing about fall.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_00: I will say that.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_00: So it's that's gotta be a a favorite part of it too.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, no complaints.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_01: No complaints about that.
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_01: I think twice in my entire career the seasons have lined up and it's like, oh no, normally.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um so you like you've written cousin mysteries.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_00: You you you wrote standalone fiction too, uh Lost Coast Literary.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um you wrote a memoir.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so you've written in multiple genres for the writers out there, since this is reality rights.
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um would what would you recommend to writers who are, you know, maybe just getting started and they're writing in one genre?
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_00: Do they need to write in multiple genres?
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_00: Is that like, would they be okay writing in the same genre forever?
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_00: Or do do they need to explore other genres?
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_00: Is it a requirement or is it just a personal preference?
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um what do you think?
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think it's I definitely think it's a personal preference or like where the story is taking you.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't, I didn't feel for lack of a better word, I didn't have like a calling or a story idea for a rom-com until we were talking about a scavenger hunt in the middle of the pandemic when we were all like, you know, um, safe at home.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_01: And uh that just kind of spurred on the idea.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_01: So I don't think you should force yourself to write something that you're not interested in writing.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_01: But if you have an idea for something, like let's say you're writing a mystery right now and you're like, ooh, but I really have this idea for like a sci-fi, or I'd really like to write YA or a rom com or whatever it is, I would say explore that too.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_01: Like follow your creative energy because that never leads you astray.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_01: Like, um, and sometimes it's hard because you'll have like, you know, if you're deep, let's say in edits or you're in the like middle of a manuscript and and it's messy, it's easy to get distracted by like, oh, this shiny thing, like this new story idea that's like trying to take up space.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_01: So I would say like finish what you're working on and then maybe give some energy to that new idea.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but yeah, I definitely think you should explore whatever genres you're interested in.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_01: And I think the really great thing about where publishing is at right now is there are so many mashups.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_01: You know, even 10 or 15 years ago, it was like, especially in the cozy, you need a title that is punny and you need like this hook, and it has to be exactly this long.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_01: And here are the points or like to loop back to what we were saying at the beginning, there's no swearing, no sex, no, you know, killing of kids.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_01: All actually, most of that is still true.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_01: But um, you know, there were much um firmer guidelines and boundaries in terms of what could happen.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_01: And now you're seeing all kinds of cool crossovers happening, like um Alice Chen's reality check, which um both of those authors came to Ashland Mystery Fest last year.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_01: It's like a rom-com meets a mystery, it's reality TV, like it's all these things that before like I don't think would happen, or I loved Allie Cardi Carter's um The Most Wonderful Crime of the Year, which is the same thing.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_01: It's a rom-com meets a mystery.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_01: So I think there's space to play around these days and and mash up some genres that that wasn't available um 10 or 15 years ago, which is cool.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, uh that's so true because I remember we were at Mystery Fest uh in Ashland a couple of years ago, and um we were at uh a bookshop there, and I saw a book that it had like a I think it was like an ogre on the front.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um and and I was like, oh, cool.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_00: And you're like, that's a romance.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, what?
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_00: And you're like, yeah, it's it's uh what did you call it?
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_00: It was um it was like fantasy romance, but it had like a there was like a mashup name.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_01: Romanticy.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_00: Romanticy, yes, romanticy.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, it was like that is so cool that that uh because I'm sure there's a there's an audience for that.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_00: And and as it stands, that particular series, I which I don't remember the name of, um, yeah, is wild what or it was is still wildly popular.
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_00: So that's that's really fun.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um mashups can be super fun.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_00: Uh so it's good to see.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_00: Uh more books for everyone.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_00: That's awesome.
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_00: Uh well, before we wrap up, any last thoughts on uh ro rom coms and cozy mysteries?
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_00: Ramosy mysteries?
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, remose?
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, we could start something.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, what do we think, darling?
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_01: Remosies, yeah.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_01: Uh no, but just uh sending all of you the Valentine's love.
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for all the book love that we get.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um it's the absolute best.
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, definitely.
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_00: Uh we are very appreciative.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and speaking of feedback, the last episode we did talk about reader feedback, and we got a lot of feedback after that episode.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_00: So thank you for that.
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_00: That was great.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um didn't get a lot of hate in the comments, which I I had I had specifically asked for feedback.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_00: So that was uh yeah, it was great.
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_00: No, um, but but thank you.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_00: We really appreciate all the listeners, all the darlings out there.
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um uh next up, uh tune in next time.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_00: We are going to be talking about the whisking hour book 22, right?
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_00: In the Bake Shop Mystery Series.
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, it is coming out February 24th.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um and uh and we're gonna be talking about the book, spoiler-free, of course, and a lot of uh just bake shop uh mystery series fun.
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um, some other things are coming in the series that uh might mention uh during that episode.
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_00: And so longtime fans of the series and anyone new to it should have a good time.
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_00: And uh uh so look for that in the next episode.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um so that is all we have for this episode of Reality Rights.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_00: I would like to know from the darlings out there like uh what what are your favorite uh rom com series or rom com standalones?
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_00: I guess maybe they aren't series.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um that that would have been a good question, but uh you know, we'll find next time.
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um or favorite romantic storylines in a cozy mystery series, uh that I would like to know too.
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_00: I'd like to hear about that in the comments.
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_00: And um as always, uh patrons head on over to Patreon for the after party where things are going to get spicy.
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_01: Ooh, all right.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_01: Well, on that note, till next time.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_00: Until next time,