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Episode 41 - Boomer Series: JD · GenX Adulting Podcast

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  [MUSIC]Welcome to GenX Adulting and today we'rewelcoming JD into the studio. Welcome JD.Well, thank you for havingme. It's great to be here.We're so happy to have you here.Oh, joy.Our first question is always,what year were you born?1961.Okay. So you are a boomer.Tail end of the baby boomers.You are. You're at thetail end of the baby boomers.Correct.Okay. Where were you born?Fort Wayne, Indiana.Okay, cool.Yeah, Midwestern by birth, but moved arounda lot. So there's a lot behind that.So are your parents from Fort Wayne?My mother's family was there when she metmy father and he was a Michigan guy.Okay. So what broughtyour father to Fort Wayne?He, you know, a little bit behind it.He was the first one to go to college andhis family on the GI Bill,he was in the Korean war,a Navy guy and started goingto college in Michigan state.And part of what was going down with that,he was getting a degree inhuman resources personnel.So he started in some plants and I believethere was some interaction betweenIndiana and Michigan where they met in amalt shop and those likehappy days type of thing.No way.Yeah, true stuff.Wow.True stuff. So Michigan bybirth him for a long time.My mom had, I think Oklahoma, Indiana.Okay.But yeah, they met there.Do you know what year?58.Okay.Wow.So a real 1950s malt shop meeting.She had the little dog on the skirt.The poodle skirt.The poodle skirt.
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  And they,you know, for them it was ideal.Like it was truly like that happy days.Like Greece.Yes.Yeah.Yeah.That's so cool.Okay.So they met and do you know how long it wasbetween the time theymet and they got married?Wasn't it wasn't long within a year.All right.And did they stay, they stayed in FortWayne obviously, becausethat's where you were born.Yeah.They bopped around a year or two.Okay.A year or two.Are you the oldest?I'm the middle child of five.Oh, wow.Middle child.Wow.How many boys, how many girls?Two boys, excuse me, three boys, two girls.And are the oldest, how does the order go?My sister Lori is a couple ofyears older than me and I'm 63.My brother's one year older than me.And then me and then my younger sisterwho's probably two years younger than me.So probably 61, 60.And then my youngest brother is 59.Okay.So I think youryoungest brother is a Genex.Might be.I think he's the last.What year was he born?He was born in 66.Yep.He's a Genex.Yeah.Okay.And the rest of you guys are boomers.Yep.Okay.So you were in Fort Wayne for like a coupleof years after like as a baby.Right. A year or two.Dad again, implants, moving up the chain.So we moved up.We moved a bunch.Okay.Now when he was in the Korean war, do youknow how long he served over there?You know, I don't know all the details.It wasn't really, he didn't really talk alot about it, but youknow, you see the picturesand thank God he wasoff the coast of Korea.Okay.So he didn't actually see active battle,but they were part of the support function.And you know, you seethe ships and the history.It was pretty cool.But surprisingly, he was soft spoken,especially when a bunch of the kids are alittle more out there.Yeah.But great dad, great dad.But his whole thing was I just want to makea better life comes from good family.But that going to school super important.That's amazing.That must have meant so much to his family.Do you know what motivated him to want togo to college since his family hadn't gone?That's a really good question.I can't say he ever told methat he just had that drive.Good man.One of those ones they wereraised pretty devout Catholics.Yeah.You know, they loved all people and as longas people were good,they, it worked out so well.But that's the path they went down and hejust always wanted to dobetter, to be better person,you know, bettercommunity, that kind of thing.So that was, that was him.He was just a good guy,just a really good guy.That's cool.What did he do for a living?Human resources.Okay.And again, he started in the plants, workedinto like manufacturingfacilities, whatever they,whatever those kind of, where they made,whether it's sometimes I think it waspetroleum type of things orpetroleum products.And then he moved up into the executiveoffices into New York over time.This was, you know, wheneverything was made in America.Right.True.Yeah.It's very different now, but this is backwhen you could get a job inAmerica to many manufacturing plantsand build a career off of that where thoseopportunities, you know, like the youngergenerations couldn't,that's not as available to them, I guess.Right.I'd agree.He did a lot of union negotiations.So it's interesting that you say that.So now that you're saying it's flagging me,I can remember how some of that was prettytense, but, you know, veryimportant, you know, same time.Yeah.Yeah.So did his job, was yourmom a stay at home mom?Yes.Okay.And with that many kids, definitely.Now did his job, did he travel or did youguys move because of his job?Yeah, we moved.I think I lived in atotal, probably 10 states.Wow.Wow.What states?So lived in Indiana, Baton Rouge,Louisiana, Wilmington,Delaware, Randolph, New Jersey,Baltimore, Maryland, went to college inVirginia, James Madison and Harrisonburg,Virginia, moved to New York, my collegebuddy, and then from New York to Florida.Okay.Yeah.So that's been that.So with my parents, you know, once I wentto college, that's when we dispersed, butyeah, so we had a lot of music.You did have a lot of moves.So your elementary years, where were they?A couple of different places.It was Delaware and then New Jersey.And then what about middle school?New Jersey.In Randolph?Yeah.It was one.Randolph's close to where I grew up.I know.I know.I heard your guy.Yeah.Yeah.I loved it.It was ideal.Like quite frankly, you go back to now andI can't believe it because it's been builtup so much, but it was, you know, he wasgoing into New York city,working for WR, Grace at the time.I mean, they had that beautiful buildingwith the bend and really proud of that.Or in the Parsippany where they had a lotof executive offices too for the various, Ithink at the time it was a chemical companythat he was working for.Yep.Might've been Dow actually, actually.I had a friend of mine moved from out ofstate from Michigan to New Jersey becausehis dad worked at Dow in Parsippany.It was allied chemical.Okay.I don't know if that really, too.Yeah, they were at the time for sure.Yeah.So his commute, he wouldcommute into the city every morning.No, no, I think that he did a fair amount,but at the same time theyhad a facility in Parsippany.And that's not too bad.Not too bad at all.No, people don't realize thatpart of Jersey is beautiful.You know, they picture the Sopranos whenyou say New Jersey, but there's a wholepart of Jersey that's small town.We lived on a lake, you guys.Yes.Yeah.You know, like you were talking about yourkids, you they're able to go out.You know, this was, this was fantastic.Yeah.So what?Oh, sorry.No, I was going to say he was real proud ofthat because each time we moved, it was astep up for, you know, your housing, whichwas always a blessing.And then, you know, I know my mom enjoyedthat, but you know,five kids in seven years.It was a, it was reallytough when we talk about her.She was great, great mom,but I mean, that's tough.It is.That was really tough.That's a lot.That's a lot.So when you were in elementary school andmiddle school, did you do any sports?Yeah.Oh, you know, typicalfootball and baseball and basketball.It was idyllic.Quite honestly, I can just remember havingto a younger brother who we always playwith in my older brother andfriends in the neighborhood.It seemed to be, you know, don't want tooverplay that, but it was just wonderful.Now, did they have travelsports when you were growing up?That I don't believe so.Okay.So it was still, it was still like, likejust everyone, neighborhood and schoolfriends played on the baseball team.Then same friends playedon football and basketball.That kind of thing.You would go to different schools.You'd have the differentschools you're competing against.But what's interesting is I think they werereal smart about where they ended uppurchasing the homes, like near this lake.And by the way, it was called Shungum Lake,if you know, random, beautiful lake.And then when we lived, other areas, they'dget it near a school.So, you know, you just go to the school andyou, you know, they'd have camps in thesummer, where is tenniscamp or all sorts of things.So I think my parents were, they thoughtthat through because that, again, dad wasworking and mom had, youknow, probably the hardest jobs.Yeah.Yeah. Mom was sitting home with five kids.She's like, I need a playground nearby.I need a lake, you know,probably have some rules.I think they really, I thinkthat was well thought through.Yeah, absolutely.Did you walk to school?I can remember walking to school.I can remember some of the bus rides.Okay.So close enough where shedidn't have to drive you guys.That is correct.I know.Don't ever remember that.That's smart.That might've put her over the top.Yeah.Yeah.So high school, where was that?High school started in, itwas in New Jersey for one year.And then I moved to Towson, Maryland,outside of Baltimore.And that was my 10th,11th and 12th grade year.Okay.So how hard was it to move tobe the new kid in high school?For me, it just worked out really well.I was comfortable because we had moved forsomeone like brothers and sisters.It was super hard.Yeah.Super hard.It's probably, um, do you think that'sbecause of your disposition and yourpersonality since everyone kind ofresponded to it differently or cause youwere a little older, like did you young,your younger siblings have a harder timewith it or your older siblings?My older siblings.Okay.There it's really, knowing me and thenknowing them, they're, I love my brothersand sisters have always been very good, butwe are extremely different.The two, my older sister and older brother,intelligent and, um, read a lot of books.My brother was very handy.I was out the door.I was playing ball.I was doing what you'retalking about your son doing.I'm on the phone at 15.I'm I want to talk to my friends and girls.So, so I was out.My brother was out.My sister was, she was in between that, theyounger, but all good.I think my sister and brother feltresponsibility to help my mom, especiallymy older sister, she's, she's wonderful.But I think that because my mom had parentshad so many kids, she had, sheassumed a role and, you know, lives a greatlife, great husband and kids and allthat, but at the same time, I think shegot, had to hold help out.I think that happens.I think, I think in larger families, theolder siblings naturally are given someresponsibility of the younger siblings.And so I think, and I think back when yourparents were having kids, having alarge family was pretty common, right?Correct.Correct.More, way more commonthan now, I would say.Totally agree.Yeah.Totally.Like you said, I have five kids now.People definitely would belike, wow, we're back then.That was probably like,yeah, that makes sense.I think a lot of people did it.Yeah.A lot of people.Especially Catholics.Right.That was a historicalCatholic, large Catholic family.Absolutely.Absolutely.I think they felt that was a big part ofit, you know, because I think my sisterwas born right about ninemonths after the wedding.Yeah.Yeah.But that was part of it.They, you know, they wanted to.Well, everything you just said too, right?They met and then within a year, you'resaying you think they got married.And then by nine months later, they haveyour sister and then four more kids comingthrough.Yeah.That's, that was that traditional.I think that's how it was, you know, alittle interesting tidbit on that, though.We talked about the malt shop, which is,you know, my dad just, you know, they wentthereafter basketballgames when he was younger.So this was, you know, it is cool.But he said the moment my mother walkedinto the malt shop, like he felt it's adifferent kind of energy.He goes, I knew I wasgoing to marry this lady.Wow.He said that from the get-go and for him tosay it, it's kind of interestingbecause he's kind of a little, again,soft-spoken, a little quiet, and might'vekept that to himself as you get.But I remember him saying that and thenflash forward to when I met my wife, whichwe can talk about when the time is right,but met her at a party through her sisterwho I went to college with.And what's interesting,she didn't feel this at all.Same, same thing happened.She walked into the roomand something happened.You know, I swear you guys, I don't mean tobecause I almost would have been easier.I wasn't living in New York.Life was great.Living with my collegeroommate, the cross buddy.Life was great.But this, so there's a connection there.Remember my dad saying that?I go, I felt that about my wife, Charcy.Everything changed for the better.That is so cool.And it's so true, you guys.Yeah, yeah, that's fate.Wish she would have felt the same way.She's like, what are you talking about?It's like, you know, I think she can relateto what you're sayingwhen I walked in the room.Well, you guys didconnect rather quick, right?We were friends.So we met when we were 19 and we werereally good friends for three years.Yeah, a little different.Yeah, yeah.We were and our friendship just gotstronger and stronger and stronger.And then about a month before we graduatedcollege, we realizedwe felt like we kind ofexpressed how we felt.I was dating one of his good friends.And so it allowed us to have a reallystrong platonic friendshipbecause we were always in the samegroup, always together.But did you feel yeah, the year?Yeah, the year before we graduated, Iremember feeling conflicted, definitely.And we would spend a lot of time together.And I think when we have reminisced onthat, we both look back and think we wereboth feeling the samething, but I was dating his friend and Ihad been with him for a long time.And then I think it came to the point whereit was OK, so we need tojust admit something, admit howwe're feeling and see what happens.And then we weren't apart after that.Yeah, that was it.So beautiful, though, because you're theguy at the same time.You've got those feelings that you know youwant to be with that person.Yeah, it was you wanted to make sure youdon't want to affect anotherrelationship unless it's likereal.That's tough.So but and then that was it.We were we graduated a month later and wedrove around the country.Are you still friends withthat person, Brian, or that all?No, I don't think so.Not really.No.No, that's another story.He was not happy with that?Nope.There was no what did the kids call it?Cross over, you know, like I ended therelationship and then therewas nothing like I'm trying tosay it was all in the up and up.Yeah.So so OK, so highschool, then you graduate.Yeah.And well, during high school, did you kindof get an idea what youwanted to do for a living?Didn't really think about it.It's too good a time sports lacrosse,baseball, lacrosse, wrestling.Friends.So when did you start playing lacrosse?The last year in highschool, your senior year.Yeah, I never played before.Never did.And we were big in lacrosse outside of it,but just so many friends played.So I was picking up a stick.So it started really in college.Quite frankly, I lived with a couple reallygood New Yorkers thatplayed some great lacrosse.So I got brought into the to the mix and itended up being just a great time.So you played lacrosse in college.Correct.But you didn't startuntil your senior year.That is correct.That's I mean, that's unheard of now.Well, really, at the time,James Madison was a club.So really goodlacrosse, but they were clubs.A lot of the schools that are clubs now nowplay D1 and you know what I mean?Yeah.But it was just fantastic.Like we played like a Virginia B team andthey would just beat you up.But that time Virginia was winning titles.But it was great.And I was really it was good that I wasable to pick it up like that.I probably didn'tcompare to some of the others.But I got involved in running the club andended up being the president of the club.And we would go to various campuses,William and Mary, Virginia military.And you just play on the college campus andhave just that's why beautiful all thesebeautiful campus.Oh, no.Virginia Tech.Yeah.How would you guys get around?You like school?They provided they provided us resourcesbecause it will acrosswas big in that area.That's Shenandoah Valley.So it was big in the area.So we always had that.And, you know, they would dovarious things to raise money.But it was great.You got to meet friends and then you'd be,you know, at Lynchburg, staying overnightor whatever. And some of the dorms of theother guys on the other team.And did you have to tryout for the club team?I know there's really no formal tryout, butI think what happened by osmosis, if youweren't good enough.Yeah.You know, we had a coach whowas a ended up becoming a mentor.I love the guy who wasa World War Two pilot.Never forget him.Colonel Roland Bud Brady.And he was the coach and he was lived downin Stanton probably 20, 30 minutes from thecollege. And he wanted tocoach because he played lacrosse.He was a skier.He was just this wonderful gentleman and agreat pilot, somegreat stories behind it inWorld War Two.But he took to me.So he knew that I hadat least I could play.But.Captain, you know, I was captain, thewrestling team in high school.Yeah. One of my buddies that I went tocollege with playedlacrosse with me at college and hewas a captain. So we already had that kindof experience on wecan have fun and all thiskind of stuff. But at the sametime, we got to do this right.You know, so let's do it.He saw leadership in you.I think so.Yeah, I think so.Yeah.Because now I mean, it's so competitivenow, like it's evencompetitive club is I thinkthere's no doubt it's completely different,I think, where I don'tthink you just can playclub even now.It's you try out for club and all that.So for you to be able to have thatexperience and then to berecognized for your leadershipcharacteristics and not just how longyou've been playinglacrosse is pretty cool.And I owe him a debt of gratitude becauseone, it helped me furtherdefine who I was going to beon being an Air Force.And he ended up being likethe military attache to Turkey.And so he was a class guy.You needed to do it as right.And, you know, I met his wife and becamepart of the extended family for some time.And they were class.So he just wanted you, you know, he stillknew we were kids, but atthe same time expected acertain level of and I respected that he'dhave us into his houseand, you know, you'd havethe little drink before dinner andeverybody dressed accordingly.Yeah.And, you know, when you were at the table,he he had dignitaries there periodically.There was a couple.Yeah, it was a couple of wild stories aboutwho he who I had dinnerwith as a young kid that Ididn't realize till till after the fact.But he was wellconnected and well respected.And, you know, like Isaid, absolutely loved the guy.You were you were learning life skills,learning life skills.Yeah.From a hero, by the way.From a hero.Absolutely.Absolutely.He left me his when he passed and gotburied in Arlington, themost beautiful thing I've everseen.He left me his flight records and some ofthe stories in the flightrecords were like, you know,how they flow in theseformation as someone gets hit.You got to take lead and stuff.And there's just some of the stories.And he wasn't he wasn'ttalked too deep about it.But once I got the flightrecords, guy was a hero.That's amazing.Amazing.I wish we could have one of those guys on.You know, I don't knowif there's any around.There's a there's a small population.Yeah.Like World War Two vets around.Yeah.Just to capture some of their stories, youknow, because theyounger generations have noconcept of World War One, World War Twoveterans, really what theyhave to say, you know, wekind of do because of growing up andhearing, you know, on TVor interviews or whatever.But there's just no exposure anymore.You know, so I just think that's so amazingthat he was your lacrosse coach.That's so cool.It was meant to be.Did absolutely.Did you maintain arelationship after you graduated?I did.You did.I mean, did he meet any of your like yourwife and kids or anything like that?He did.Again, he was getting olderand had some heart problems.I think he died in his later 70s.But they owned a really classy bath shop inthis cute town called Stant, Virginia.We stayed there.Did you?Yeah.So it's funny that the world of lacrosse,we were going tolacrosse tournaments a couplesummers ago, right up in the NortheastConnecticut or Rhode Island or something.And we left here South Florida, drove allthe way up to Stanton,spent the night there,got up the next day and drove up.What is it?70 something.What?I hate 81.81.I think so.We passed ODU, Old Dominion, which reallyhas that's the purple stadium.Really cool school.Beautiful area.We're on the towards the water, right?What is Old Dominion?Isn't that that now?No, no, I'm sorry.You're right.Yeah.Where did you go again?What did you say?Change Madison.That's what we passed right away.That's correct.It was right off the script.The two up.We passed James Madison.Yeah.Yeah.Beautiful.Old Dominion is totally onthe other side of the state.Yeah.I thank God for that college experience.It was, you hope everybody has it.And I realize now more than ever, you don'thave to have a college degree by any, youknow, whatever works.But again, it was superimportant to the parents at the time.Yeah.What a 40.Well, it was five.You did five years.Sucker up.You got that fifth year.Okay.So when did you know,um, you wanted to go there?Cause you're in high school.Cause now of course, everything's so crazywith kids, you know, junior year,touring colleges and you can even startapplying to college this summer beforeyour senior year and a lot of these kidsknow where they're going by fall of theirsenior year, but I don'tthink it was like that back then.Right.Was it?Yeah.So what was it like whenyou went to go to college?One, it was exciting.Yeah.You know what I mean?And you know, we had some resources toparents deal was they'll pay for half.You got to work in the summers.And because he had that kind of a job, hewas able to get us all good jobs wherewe're earning money.You know, working in, but they also wassmart again, seven to three, three to 11,11 to seven.So we would be doing shifts working inthese various plants.And so that kind of made you appreciatelearning how to be a good worker and thenbeing a little jealous of your friendsgoing up at the same time.You know, we made some good money.So there was that good mix up.We're paying 50 50.And you know, that was, that was theagreement, but just being able toexperience meeting the people that I did inthe Virginia, which was beautiful.It just, you know, I couldn't have askedfor more, but back to your question, itreally came down to what were our SATs.I knew I wanted to gowith my best buddy as well.So his SATs, a little lacking, but youknow, you know what I'm saying?And then it was how much to get in.Right.So those were the two variables.And then we bounced around and visit wherewere the, where were they?And quite honestly, it was so funny.I can remember still we're up in mybedroom, you know,figuring out they had the booksat the time, there was not like, you seenow we're like James Madison.Okay.It was 3000 a semesteror, or it was affordable.What it might've evenhave been a year at the time.And, um, you know, the SAT scores and then65% girls, 35% guys, it was a woman'steacher college years and years ago.Boom.That's a great ratio.So that ratio just fell right intosomething that just stood out and then yougo visit and you're like, you know, it'sjust blown up now, but at the time they'relike 10,000 students, including, you know,people that are, what's that?The after graduates or whatever they would.Yeah.So you guys would have a book.They would have all the colleges.Right.And so you kind of narrowed down maybewhere you want to go.Or you would just look through the book andread about the different colleges.And mainly it was the SAT score required.So they didn't really lookat care about grades as much.Um, I don't think so.So it's SAT.And then you looked athow much does this cost?Like, can we afford it?Correct.Can our family afford it?Correct.I don't remember like the high schoolcounselor helping me much might up, butagain, I didn't needthat kind of assistance.And then you didn't have towrite an essay or have a resume.Did we?No.Are you,yeah, we had to do that.I don't remember that at all.We had to do an essay, but we didn't haveto do a resume because now it's SAT grades.Okay.Resume.Essay.Yeah.It's a whole thing.And people pay out, pay college, um,counselors or guys like thousands,there's a whole cottage industry.It's so different.Okay.So when did you know you got accepted?Got accepted.Like senior year end of senior year.You know, I think I worked for six monthsbefore I, uh, cause I didn't get in, Idon't believe the first semester or, youknow, how that, what was it?What'd they call it?They put you on like a waiting list andthen my, uh, college roommate that Iwanted to make sure it tookhim a year to be able to get in.So I think six months I stayed working inthe plants, you know, that kind of thing,building up money, but knowing that I wasgetting in and then he joined about sixmonths later.And then did you guys,uh, were you in dorm?Um, we went off campusfrom the very get go.Okay.It went, and that was.So the two of you in an apartment.We did.And then did you do Greek life at all?I didn't, we couldn't play in a sport.Okay.It would have beenreally, really difficult.And I do miss that because my son wentthrough that, that thank God I was ableto be part of as a dad and I really enjoyedwhat I saw, but no, it was, it wastoo much.Well, your form of that wouldhave been being with lacrosse.You still had that camaraderie.Oh, absolutely.I'm sure you guys had parties.Oh my God.All that stuff was so when, okay.So if you started what maybe springsemester, you said you were deferred.Yeah, I was deferred.Correct.And then he started what?The following, the following, right.The following fall.Okay.So that firstsemester, were you on your own?I, you know, ended up just meeting a coupleof people that were in the sametype of scenario and you know, you getpotluck and it worked out pretty good.Nice.Worked out.You guys got an apartment together.Got an apartment.Okay.Fun.It was such a farm kindof area at those times.Yeah.And it was just, you know, you could go inthere with quarries and forests and youknow, that Shenandoah Valley.So it was just idealic.So they had like the dorms out campusbecause it was growing so much where thesecute apartments theybuilt into the scenery.That's awesome.It's, it's truly a beautiful area foranybody who's not been through there.It's beautiful.It's so beautiful.So when, if you started spring and hestarted fall, when did you guys startlacrosse?That first, that fall.Yeah.That fall.That's fine.So then that's whenyou're lacrosse club lacrosse.And did you do that thewhole time you were in school?Correct.You say, what's interesting.One of the guys that I met that roomedwith, and you know, we, I don't thinkwe stayed, not friends, he was fine, but,um, just not meant to be as far as, youknow, the lasting friendship kind of thing.He's the one that turned me on to lacrosse.So he would sit there.So for those six months,says my friend was coming down.Um, you know, that's where I learned in it.Just kind of.Well, you had played for thesenior year in high school, right?No, no, no.I just played with the guys.That's the first time I picked up a stick.Yeah.So what you didn't actuallyplay on the high school team.So you just had friends who did.That's correct.Like pick up a stickand mess around with them.But then that spring semester college andyou met this kid, correct.And he pretty much taught you lacrosse.He did.That's amazing.You know, it's wild too is, you know howsome things like I love golf, but I wasnever natural at that at all, as much as Ilove it, it just seemed like lacrosse.Were you, you must, you must have been, youmust have been, you know, to be able.There's a lot ofstamina associated with that.I was telling you, I wrestled in college.So you, excuse me,high school, not college.And you know, you got to control weight.You got to do a lot of things thatchallenge you discipline discipline.So on a discipline.Yeah.Yeah.So, you know, our practices and this is,you know, a army, excuse me, a Air ForceColonel running the practice, you ran, Ithink 10 miles of practice.I, that might be an exaggeration, but wewere in really, really good shape.So I think that that helped me as much.I don't think I was as good as some of theones that were more natural, but I wasable to score a fair amount and be aroundthat, but, uh, I definitely wasn't on thetop echelon, but I was, I was helpful in.Yeah.You had a good, uh,athletic base to build off.Absolutely.So do you know what position?Do you remember what position?Sure.Midi center, midi.Okay.And you need to be quick and have goodstamina to be a midi.Cause you're back and forth, back andforth, back and forth,each end of the field.And that was it.That was it.And I love that as you know, I think you'regot, you're telling me your sonplayed plays, I love that.You know, it's physical.It is.And you know, as a young guy, you want toget that out of your.Yeah. You know what I mean?The slide, Brian and somebody's coming andyou're coming across the crease.And this guy takes you.It was, so that was now it'sa great, it's an amazing game.I don't think she can relate to her, notrelate, but she shockedcause it's changed so much.You've got to build up even this to getinto a club program at this point.It's a whole thing.It's not.It's so, it's so, I don't know if I wouldhave been able to get in it.It's a whole thing.And playing, you need to play travel inorder to really keep it likethe rec programs.And I think this is true with a lot ofyouth sports now is younger kids startout in rec and then a lot of kids will picka sport and do travel that sportand then play on the rec teams during thatseason and are so much better thanjust kids that are just doing it for fun.And then those kids don't get playing time.I think travel sportshas affected rec sports.A hundred percent.It's kind of pushed out kids that just wantto play sports just casually.Especially here in Florida.Cause it's so nice year round that kidspick a sport at a young age and theyfocus on it and they get really good at it.So to her point, the casual, you know,athlete, rec athlete, they're just behind.It's become very intense.Wow.I don't know if I like that.I know.I don't like that.No, because you know what?You want these kids to still play sports,even if they went into a YMCA,they still have them and you know, you geton a team and you know,that was such a big part of my life.Yeah.And I think for our age too, I think travelwas just starting for Gen X.I played football in the fall, basketballin the winter, and then baseball in thesummer or spring summer, and then you screwaround in the summer and youjump back into football, but I think theydon't do that anymore.It's like you're around.That was fabulous.Right.I mean, it had to be, I loved it.I mean, that's a kid dream.Totally relate to what you're saying, thatideal childhood of playing differentsports and just being athletic.And, you know, they do say a lot of the,like a lot of lacrosse coaches, evenfootball coaches, the big programs, theywant multi-sport athletes because theyknow they're more well-rounded.They're not just completely hyper focused.You start running into repetitive,repetitive motion injuries, you know,pitchers now, Tommy, John, football playersget hurt, all that stuff.And burnout.Right.Burnout.I think that's interesting.You know, it's changed.And there's just an intensity amongstparents and it's just different now.So it's really that old fashioned, oh, I'mjust going to play a sport.It's not, once you hit, Ifeel like 10, 10 is where the 10.Got to be good or you're out.Or yeah, the 10 is when they're really,although now we've been at, now it'smight be eight ornine, like when, you know,you know, what will have to happen.You got to come back in a few years.When, when JD juniors about to get in, whenhe has to decide, you come back andtell us, yeah, because he is a grandfather.Yeah.Your kids with their kids aregoing to end up going through it.It's just, I don't know.The whole, the wholephenomenon is really interesting.I'm hoping that it's going to go so far.It's going so far this way that eventuallyit'll come back around it and peoplestart to embrace just theorganic playing of sports.Cause that'll happen.That's, I think that's healthy.I think that's going to be the next step.That's the next business.There you go.Is that so interesting?You talk about it.So I, uh, my grandson who's Jackson Declanand John David, so he's, you know,hoping they'd say, call him James.They got the initials, right?Yeah.But anyway, for whatever reason, his dad,he's got these plastic clubs, youknow, golf clubs, he lovesgolf because his dad loves golf.So I've taken him to the range, you know,at the country club a couple of times.And he's got a little bag says Jackson.And you know, we got him the real driver orreal sandwich and a putter.And he's two and a half, right?So we'll get up there and you know,everybody's so kind to him and stuff.You know, we don't do it where, you know,cause he's young and I don't want to messup the flow of people really being serious,but you know, there's, it's sohot right now that, you know, it's not nearas busy, but anyway, two and a half.There's a guy giving lessons to pro to awoman and you know, Jackson sitting therewatching what's going on.I kind of explained, well, honey, thisteaches you how to be good.Well, anyway, I called theguy because started go sure.Two and a half year oldgot, you know, his swing.He's got, he's been walks around the suite.So sure enough, the pro goes with generallypeople don't start till four or five, buthe goes, I do have a couple of two and ahalf year olds that, you know, if they cansit or, and if they'lllisten, if they'll listen.So Monday, 11 o'clock or Monday or theafternoon, I forget what time, um,got his first lesson.Oh my God.Taking them.Oh my God.No, but I'm now I'm going back to going.You're in it.I'm in it, but I'd rather him bewell-rounded and be able to do all thosemultiple things.He walks around with the,you know, a club in his hand.Yeah.He likes it.He likes it.No, I mean, I think, and, and training, uh,kids don't get trainings on all thesports.It's very common now.So whether they're playing multiple sports,they're getting trainings on all those.So like, if you were to tell that toanyone, they'd be like, yeah,that sounds normal.Do you know?That's just how it is.That's what you do.You know, with everythingwe said, we're part of it.We've done the travel up to the Northeast.We've done it all.So we're, we're not, it is what it is withyour older kids or was that just youryounger?So when did this happen?Yeah.So what's interesting is with our, um, our,with our old with our older son, um,travel existed, uh, he's 28.So he was born in 1997.So when he was in middle school elementary,it was just regular little league.Um, and then middle school, he played forthe school and travel wasn't really,really prevalent yet for they'd existed,but it wasn't, no one was talking aboutit.It wasn't like, so what travel team is hegoing to play for or who's he trying?It wasn't common like that.So that was 15.That was like 14, 13, 14.Yeah.So he just, he played little league.Um, and then for hismiddle school, but he didn't do.Travel.But he, he showed an interest and we, wehired that one dude to teach him how topitch or something up in New Jersey.Oh yeah.That was, yeah, that was for pitching, butthat was all we did with him.But our daughter, it wasstarting to get prevalent.She played travel soccer.That was a whole thing.Um, so we were in thetravel soccer world for a while.So, and she was born in 2000.So I feel like, I feel like it's more ofthose, that's when it really picked up.I really took off.Yeah.It's more like the early 2000s.And then now it's just, it's crazy now.It's wild though.Like if we've got a, you know,there's a few nice parks here.We're in South Florida.So the weather is always nice.Say if I go over, we go over and throw alacrosse ball or something at the park.There's guys there working on theirdropback to be a quarterback.They're working on footwork.Right.It's crazy.There's people there kicking field goals.There's soccer kids there, you know, doingpenalty or corner kicks, you know,to try to all that stuff.It's cool, but it is wild, especially, youknow, you can relate to theJersey thing, me growing up there.That wasn't a thing.Yeah.You didn't have anintense focus on this one thing.No, not at all.No, no.Or these kids are specializing.It's cool, but it's wild.Yeah.You know, and that's great if you can bethat, you want to be that guy, but I thinkoverall, yeah, you just want to bewell-rounded andenjoy, you know what I mean?Um, so I want, I wanted to go back.You moved a lot out ofall the states you lived in.Is there one that you favored or that youhave really strong memoriesfrom that time period?Cause you were in Indiana, you were inLouisiana, you were in Jersey.That's a great question.It's got multiple different ways to answerthat because I think, oh, I don'tremember the Michigan, Indiana, you know, Iwas young, but I think we moved toLouisiana when I was four or five.So I can remember things about Louisiana inthe later sixties that impacted megreatly.So I remember that as a young kid, havingsome major influences, nothing to do withsports or stuff like that at the time, butit was a big difference from theMidwest going to Baton Rouge, Louisiana.What were some of the things?There was a lot of racism and I canremember, and it ended up beingbecause I have to say this properly.The way that my parents walked me throughit, the school that I went to, which wasa Catholic school, was able to educate youon what's right and what's wrong.And, you know, there wasbuses that were white and black.There was restaurantsthat were white and black.And, you know, people didn't treat variousraces to black folks.Well, and I can rememberit being really a bad thing.And that hurt because you didn't wantanybody else to feel a bad thing.So I'm glad that I was left with that bythrough my parents, that there'sabsolute no room for this.And to see it, it just, you know, I canjust remember, you know, people talkingdown to a man who's gota son in front of him.And I could think of that today and itwould just be, it's,it's, no room for that.So not a great thing, but coming away fromthat experience and Baton Rouge taught meto, you know, I'm not going to, I don'twant to be that person.Yeah.Yeah.Cause how old were you during those years?Probably six to maybe eight.Those are formative years.Formative years.So that was something that you carried withyou for the rest of your life.Yeah.To this day.Yeah.To this day.It's a pivotal moment.Pivotal moment.So, so I have such fun.I mean Baton Rouge was cool and it was justdifferent, you know, it was LSU.So I can remember the first football game Iever went to with my dad, LSU old man.So there's that in Baton Rouge.Um, and then I really, you know,Wilmington, Delaware seems to be a littlestop off for us, you know?So can't remember too much except forliving near a school and it was fabulousfun, New Jersey was outstanding.So you were, you were,um, more a teenager, what?70s mid seventies.Correct.So were you into music?You know, no rhythm, no, I loved, I thinkour generation has some of the greenout that, you know what I mean?The band, you guys know.Um, so I was into it that way, but youknow, I couldn't dance.My rhythm was poor, uh, no musicalaptitude, but huge appreciation andsurprisingly good at knowing what's good.Yeah.But nothing related to.Talent.Did you go see live music?Oh yeah.So what were some of the bands you saw?Bob Seger, super tramp, BruceSpringsteen, that kind of thing.Yeah.Did you see Led Zeppelin?Never saw Led Zeppelin in college.There was a lot of, uh, country rock, youknow, Marshall Tucker, Neil Young.What about Leonard Skinner?Leonard Skinner, Tom Petty.Um, all my brothers, all my brothers.You see all of these?Um, I didn't see the almond brothers.I saw three of the four weeks discussed.Um, yeah, they would comein, you know, we lived there.Uh, we were close to Charlottesville.So you'd get a lot of good stuff cominginto Charlottesville.I think it was only 45 minutes away.So you saw a lot of these bands, um, intheir prime or as they were just starting.Yeah.If they're coming to college, they came toyour college or I go up intoCharlottesville and they'd had, but yeah, Ithink it was, I forget who it was.Uh, 38 special and, and, and I think NeilYoung and you know, itwas a local type of thing.And Charlottesville is a major stop.It's a major stop.I think that's where a lot of it was.So would you see them inbig venues or in like a bar?Um, big, bigger venues, bigger venue, youknow, and then going back home intoMaryland for, you know, summer or forbreaks and stuff, we'd cruise into the,you know, DC and the Capitol center.That's where I, you know, Salt LakeSprings, Dean and some of the, but it'sall in that prime, you know, like for us,cause we were born in 71.So we're into that music, but it, for us,it was looking back on that.There was, and, and we have been able tosee some of those bands live, butit's not in theirprime, if that makes sense.So I've always, um, with the originalmembers, I just have always beenenvious of people who were, and probablykids that are older, like would beenvious if we were able to see maybeNirvana or Pearl Jam in their prime.Cause that's when we were inour twenties, early twenties.But, um, I just think that'sthat timeframe and music, I don'tthink has been replicated since.Feels that way.Yeah.My kids are listening to it.Other people, you know, are there doingremakes of those songs?Yeah.Yeah.But was that good time?I mean, you're 10 years younger.You said, okay, so was that Nirvana, allthat stuff was good stuff going to see.I mean, do you feel like you miss somethingor you feel you still had a good ride?At the time we, the grunge movement camewhen we were 23, 22, 23, 24.We missed it.We didn't see the seed those bands livebecause we got married and startedhaving kids and we were busy doing that.But, um, we, that whole thing that wasgoing on, it was happeningwhen we were in our early twenties.And so the discovery of that music, like wewere hearing it live on the radiofor the first time, you know, where kidsnow look back on that.Like it'd be like hearing Led Zeppelin onthe radio for the first time.Like, so even though we didn't see Nirvana,we didn't see Pearl Jam.We're also huge dead heads.Got it.Yeah.So when we could see somebody live, we hadthe time we went and saw the deadand then, or dead coverbands or almond brothers.We saw the almond brothers atthe beacon in New York city.We used to go do that once a year.Crosby stills in Nashand Young, Neil Young.Um, I saw Stephen RayVaughan before he died.So that's that, that Ifeel really lucky about that.I think we, we were the tail end of thatwhere they were probably still theoriginal members and they were still good,but they had aged a little bit.And then, then that whole grunge scene cameon the scene and music did change.We saw Bob Dylan.We saw Santana, all that.So that's why our son'sname is Dylan after Bob Dylan.Yeah.And then you see that movie, which was justmind blowing recently.Did you see it yet?You guys know, but it's Timothy Shallow me.I think it plays him.Amazing.Yeah.I want to see.That's all I can say.And that music, you know, that, that, that,that thing going reallytraining, he was the transition point.As you know, from that folkkind of, yes, go see that movie.Yeah.Phenomenal.No, I want to see it.Dylan movie.Yeah.Timothy Shallow.Maybe I think plays an amazing.Really?Fabulous.See it in a theater asopposed to if you can.Yeah.You know, what's coming up?What is, what's the date?There's that dead moviethat's coming out in the theaters.So we go that they'lldo, what do they call it?The night at the theater.Grateful dead night at thetheater or something like that.And it's all around the country on this onenight, all there's theatersin every town that plays and they do it andthey pick a different.Um, it's cool.So it's cool.So we go as a family.So, but anyways, I just think that's,that's cool that you were able to reallygo see a lot of these bands live.And just experiencing the music.Yeah.You know, you were talking about the dead.You got a lot of credit to them because alot of the kids at collegewere going to see the dead.Yeah.So they, they, theyendured, they persevered.Yeah.Cause what years, uh,would college have been.80 to 84.For college for you.Yeah.Was 80 to 84.Correct.And they were going to dead shows.They were going to dead shows.Yeah.And that's that early 80s.Yeah.I know that.There was a bunch, you know, cause yeah.Yes.One of my favorite shows.I went to RFK in DC and saw the dead there.I'm sure some of my friends might've beenthere because you know, youdon't just go to one or two.No.Yeah.Cause that was, um, Brent Keith and Brent,those years Keith and Brent on the piano.Okay.We're getting sidetracked with music, whichwe do have a question though.I want to go back to your Louisiana days.Sure.So I've always known you as a kind, givingopen-minded person and a nice guy as well.Right.Does that experience in Louisiana, how muchdoes that intersay your lens today?And part of the question I have is when youwere there as a little guy, did youknow it was wrong that what you were seeingand the parents helped you makesense of it, or did they explain to you?This isn't right.That makes sense.It does.Um, to answer your question, it defined meto be honest, and I'm appreciative.And you know, I don't mean that that makesme better than any thing.I'm just saying that absolutely defined me.And yes, my parents helpedme, but I knew it was wrong.And I remember the look on the kid's facewhen they're chastising some manwho's not the same color in it.And so, yeah.So, so I was the beneficiary of being ableto see it, but not having to be theperson to experience and thatit never should be that way.So, so yeah, it was very, very fortunatethat, that, that I was able to see itthat way because some people don't.Yeah.Yeah.But, um, yeah.So that was a huge, huge thing.And, you know, when you look back atblessings in life, I think that helpedall our family, you know?Yeah.No, that makes sense.Does that time being there sing?Yeah.Makes sense.Yeah.And we moved enough to knowthat there are differences.Yeah.That's not right.Yeah.So no, that's that's again, like I said,just such a pivotal moment in your life.Totally.And again, wish it never happened, butcouldn't be more thankful because, youknow, if everybody was just treating peopleright, you know, I know it sounds,you know, yeah, okay.Yeah.But I mean, that's whatyou, it's as simple as that.It really is.Isn't it?Really is.It really, it really is.A lot of things complicated.So media platforms, thingswe have, but T to the core.Yeah.It's that simple.It's that simple.So when you were incollege, what did you study?Uh, it was like a marketingmajor and a minor in economics.Okay.And at that time, as you're going throughschool, did you know what you wanted to do?Or were you just, I'm interested in this.So I'll get a degree in this.Yeah.I think that I've alwaysthat type of guy sales guy.I mean, I didn't know I wasgoing to be a sales guy, but I wasa sales guy, but I didn't see me beingengineering or have technical skills.That led me down that path.My sister was super smart valedictorianthree year high school, three yearuniversity in Maryland, you know?Smarter than us.Yeah.My brother engineer, smart, that kind ofthing, you know, but they, you know, theyweren't doing the same things I did as faras with the social life.So did your youngersiblings take more after you?Yeah.My sister went to Madison.Which was kind of cool.Yeah.And we did there together.Yeah.She came a year or twoafter, but it was cool.It was very cool.You got to party with your sister.A little bit.I think she thinks I did a little morethan, you know, I think she was a littlemore smart about I was everywhere doingeverything with everybody.And she was, knew a lot of people.I had a lot of friends, but she was alsofocused on being smart.Yeah.And what about your younger brother?He's great.I think he went to WestVirginia for a couple of years.Oh, that's a fun school.Yeah.And then I forget where he graduated fromfor two years, but he played footballand not in college, but at high school, wesaw high school quarterbacks.He was my younger brother.So they kind of weremore like loose, like you.So you're older too, werea little more responsible.Yeah.And then you kind of broke them all.That's exactly what, were you thecorruptive force or were just, yeah.And you know what?I think, you know, the good things you getin life that some people just have this,you know, they're calm andcontrol and they come off.I've been, I'm pretty hyper.Yeah.I don't mean that in abad way, but I'm excited.I want to be in and I'm nonstop.My parents would be just like, I'm tiredand not so much in a bad way.But you know, back to what about talkingabout my sister, especially whenthe kids were younger, I think that shebecame some of that because shehad to be responsible and she was, and youknow, we're thankful that she was.Yeah.Yeah.That makes sense.But at the same time,I'm glad I wasn't first.Cause we, yeah.You know what I mean?After school or after dinner, when you're15 years old, 13 years old, 16 years old,some of the best times of the life.So yeah.Yeah.Yeah.You said you went five years, which, um, incollege, which I don't think backthen was like now that's so typical kidsjust try to go five years actually.But back then it was four and a half.Remember I said, yeah.Okay.So that's where it is.Okay.Okay.Okay.So I was wondering, wheredid that extra year come from?Okay.So when you graduated, did you know, didyou have a job already set?You know what?That's a great question because it turnedinto this met another, my best friend,John LeNan, who happens to be the highschool guy, matter of fact, when I moved,it was hard.You mentioned earlierabout moving stuff, 10th grade.That was a little tough.You know what I mean?Took me under his wing pretty much.So became best of friends still are today.So yeah, absolutely.So he helped me with, um, the high schoolacclimation and bringing me in to the.The group that, you know, the sports peopleand that, you know, it was, youknow, that's really cool.Yeah, it is cool.Yeah.Yeah.What's that Matthew McConaughey movie thatthey do where they're all in highschool, and confused, and confused.That was 100% us more on the booze sidethan the other side, but that's what it waslike.So dazed and confused is pretty accurate.Pretty accurate.That's one of my favorite.We love that movie.Yeah.It's again, you know, we were athletes, sothere wasn't as much of, you know, uh,marijuana at the time andthey're not anti at all.Trust me, ran into that in college and hisgrade, but we were, that was, butkeg parties in the field,keg parties at the reservoir.What about the fashion from that movie?Pretty accurate.Pretty accurate.Yeah.And the cars.Absolutely.I had a Dodge Challenger.Oh, nice.Oh, he's so classic.You guys, it was again, not everything'salways perfect by any means, but boy,that's, that's sure how I remember that.What color?Um, it was white when I bought it from aguy, I'll never forget it.Beautiful car.He had painted the SanFrancisco Bay bridge on the car.So here I am 17 years old andit was called the San Franciscan.No way.And I ended up painting over it because youknow, but at the same time,you got it, you know, itwas a hearse pistol grip.Those are all those again, even theclimbing, I'm so surprised that I'm.Survived.They were fast and dangerous.They didn't handlewell, but you could go fast.You could go fast.We were lucky enough to have some of thosecars still around when like we gotinto high school, like my buddy had an oldCamaro, my best friend's brotherhad the Smokey and thebandit Trans Am get a blue one.We're driving down the Parkway once in NewJersey doing like 85, 90 miles an hour.He floors it and wespun out racing, racing.Uh, what are, what's one ofthose other crazy muscle cars?I can't remember.Like a Camaro orMustangs or something like that.Gran Torino.No, something like that.Did you have an eight track?Oh, that's what it started with.And then it went to cassette.I think right about that time.Okay.But you did, you did have theeight track before you went.That was such a small part, but I doremember like in the middle of the songclicking over.So yeah.Yeah.Yeah.That's cool.The days that confused is authentic.Yeah.It was the big thing.You know, after Friday night sportingevent, everybody went, whether it wasfootball, wrestling, basketball, and youknow, you'd go to the reservoir.Oh God, this was great.And you just like how many cakes?Depending upon what was going on or thetime of year, cause you know,winter little bit different.But, um, uh, you know,and they were good kids.There wasn't a lot of badthings, but you were very fortunate.Cause I think right when I was, uh, eithergraduating or in high schools,when they started, you know, the drinkingand driving wasn't smart.Yeah.Wasn't smart.You know, I picked up inearnest by the time we got there.Actually wasn't the drinking age lower for,did, were you like 18?18.Because of accidents.Yeah.They moved it up to 21 relatively quickly.So did you experience, were you able todrink when you were 18before they moved it up?Yes.Okay.Okay.So you were a part of thatand then they moved it up.Not that that stopped you from drinking,but they moved it up.Right.Right.Right.Cause we've never, we've only known 21.So you were there whenthat whole transition.It's smart that they didthat because of maturity.But I also realized if you can go to warand fight and do all these things,who am I to judge, but from a safetystandpoint, I think we're all veryyou know, sometimes you're just fortunate.But if you're one of the unlucky ones andmake a mistake, that's a bummerbecause you don't wantthat to happen to anybody.But I mean, you guys, we would have people,you know, those littleconsoles they had andthey were bigger consoles.I mean, you know, just for you, likenowadays you put your keys.Yeah.Yeah.Yeah.I mean, they'd have ice in them and you'dhave your beers in them.And it was days confused you guys.Like roadies were normaljust to bring a roadie.Everyone had a beer.Everyone had a beer.There wasn't liquor.I can't remember until really later incollege, quite frankly,but it was the beer.Everyone had a beer.We caught the tail end of that.We still got exposure to that.But by then there was a lot more of momsagainst strong drive and bad.Do I get keg parties and stuff?Oh yeah, we did.Yeah.We were in the field.Like you'll see Jen Exers talk about, youknow, our parents thought we werespending the night at someone's house andwe were passed out in a field somewhere.So we had that experience, you know, withkegs and we did more houses.You guys did more houses.And we had house parties too, but we didout because I grew up in Oregon.So there were fields, there were liketimber fields or forests, you know, youcould go and, but we didhave house parties too.But you grew up in a ruralarea, but it was a smaller town.So I think the cops were more on you guys.If you were in a field,they would have found you guys.There were cul-de-sac.So I think where I grew up, where I used toplay in streams and woods,it's all houses now.So they were building it all back then.So you go up to a dead end.We had party balls back then.Yeah.Or we'd go to like the clan or the, youknow, have just that beer or whatever,but people's houses, local kids, you know,local kids who would be in a band.That was fun stuff.Yeah.Now those, those were the days.That's great stuff.Great.So you were talking about your friendthough, that took you under his wing.Did he,Well, so he took me under his wing.Um, I, uh, the other roommate who was inNew Yorker, who's Wayne Hall,best friend as well to this day, we talkedtwice a week, at least.So when we, he graduated probably a half ayear or so before me and went and, uh,worked for, uh, at the timethey sold like software to schools.You know, it was the time where thecomputers just like the Apple just gotdeveloped and all these types of things.That was like 84, 85, 86.That's exactly correct.So I went up there and we did a lot oftechnology for years.Okay.And it was great lived athis house the first year.Um, this is post college post college.You lived with these guys in the city?Um, no, outside of the cityin Huntington, Long Island.Oh, in Long Island.Okay.Long Island.And then, so what'd you do for your job?We ended up starting a software servicescompany called forest systems.Wow.Yep.Yep.And it went really well for a lot of years.Um, at one point had up to 50 people and weended up having some issues onselling hardware products because a lot ofit was based upon chips.And at the time memorychips fluctuate like that.So that wasn't the good business to be in.So I vested ourselves from that little bitpainful to be quite honest, but wehad a services entity entity where we did abunch of cabling and we'd put bodies onsite.Yeah, that's money.Yeah.So, so that happened.I think we did this for 12 years.And at that point it was, you weren'tmaking what you wanted to make.It wasn't going to be the dream come truethat you wanted, although it providedwell for a lot of years.And at that time, people that we met in thefield, uh, either selling productsto, or becoming part of the industry iswhen my life changed in such a great wayfrom career wise, I went to work for Ciscosystems when they first startedgetting wind under their wing.So here I am, I'm thirties and I'm in a,I've got a global job working out aPenn Plaza Madisonsquare garden service in.Wall street service and financial things,learning from a company that, you know,had this leader, John Chambers, who wasjust an incredible businessman and boughtcompanies and did acquisitions better thananybody, at least that I've ever comeacross.And I'm sure there's a bunch of successstories, rightfully so, but he was knownin the industry.So he would always acquire these companies,build them into the mix.And Cisco went off like a rocket ship.What, what years, uh,when was that nineties?Yes, that was 96.Okay.They did blow up then.They had bought a communications company, aFrance company that had this telephoneline.So it was the first time, uh, there wascompetition to companies like Avaya,Brian, and I know, you know, Cisco'sphones, but I mean, it's turned into, youknow, they bought a computing platform, um,you know, and now they're, they're,they're servers are, you know, they'reright up there with some of the biggies.So I was able to see and experience thatand then allowed me to travel because Iwas in New York city.I was able to service accounts that had alot of, you know, meat on the bone.So we got to California or several times ayear, give them executive briefings,take them up to Napa Valley, um, have thewife come out on the tail end.It was, it was wonderful.And then very, very fortunate to become aglobal account manager.So I was able for like six,eight years, travel the world.So just to go back.So you guys start this software company,which I'm still like, that's so coolthat you did that right out of college.Um, really like this isall kind of new, right?In the seven late seventies, mid lateseventies and early eighties, thiswhole computer it stuff is new, right?So you're right there.And then you said you, forthe next 12 years, you handled abusiness that handled cabling.Well, that was just acomponent of one of the services.It was like, we would get bodies and theywould come in and trainpeople on how to use, like, if you canremember, and you're 10 years younger,but it's like the first time, likeeverything was Lotus one, two, three.If you remember that.And it was at the time themulti-mator word perfect.So these software packages came out thatrevolutionized everything.You know what I mean?It went from, uh, the green screen, aseverybody calls it, the blackscreen with the white text back then.It was green text.Yeah.Yeah.Yeah.Right.Then you're what they're describing is thatthat shift from that to actualwindows and a mouse and a keyboard.You were a part of that.Part of that.So you would sell that software.Correct.So you'd go to businesses and they wouldhave that traditional black screenwith the green, right.And yeah, when you type, right in mypicture in this room, because I'm notit, so you're talkingabout, yeah, through osmosis.Sometimes I understandwhat things he's saying.Um, and then you would say, look at this,look at this amazing softwareand what it can do.And I, were people blown away, blown away.Here's your email.Right.But you're, you were pre-email.That was the email, the foray into email.Cause was, what didthat software have emails?Did it introduce email?It didn't know what we're saying is thegreen screen, no email.It was just right.Yeah.Then there was probably some messaging app,but it wasn't nearly assophisticated and simple as 100%.Wasn't like, you know, these wordprocessors or, or spreadsheets that, youknow, accountants usedto pencil and calculators.So I look back and it was so good.And, you know, I've been very fortunate,but at the same time, you know, madesome mistakes because we could reallycapitalize if we would have not been.Four guys that got together and started abusiness that all just said, grow,grow, grow, give credit to people.Trust all these things that you need in a,like the business that, that Iwork for nowadays, that Brian's aware ofthe, the leader and his partner,um, the partners, uh, avery good accountant, CFO.We needed things like thatbecause at that time you guys, therewas so much great opportunity.If you remember why 2k and everybody was soconcerned that when that clock wentfrom 99 to 2000, thatyour systems didn't work.Yeah.So people spent a fortuneto upgrade their billions.Billions.And we were the recipients of that.No, that's good.No question.So you were, you were out there sellingsoftware so, so that people could, um,be confident that their whole system wasn'tgoing to fail once it went from1999 to 2000, there was a mix of, uh, atthat time, what became popular justprior to that was the local area network.So what that meant is that people were nowconnected to one another viacomputers and it was all wired.There was no wireless.But if you can imagine the gain inproductivity from going from singlecomputers and they're only just singlecomputers, so you didn't really shareanything unless you gave someone a floppydisk or some of those things.Yeah.And it went to connected.So it was steps along the way, but it wasreally big because businesses got a lotmore effective andefficient leveraging technology.Yeah.So you had the body shop setting up landsand then the Y2K stuff.Y2K stuff was amazing in terms of moneybecause everyone was nervous and theywould hire people.You were probably putting people on site togo through old software code, thegreen screen code line by line to make surethat it would handle four digitsinstead of two.That's really what it was all about.Right.It went from four, two digits, 99.Everyone assumed 1900and then it went to 2000.That's the whole problem.So they had peoplegoing through lines of code.I worked for a company.They made tons of money.And then once it happenedand it was this big dud, right?There was this non-event.They fired all those people in their stocktank and they had to diversify.Well, that's when the dot combomb, uh, uh, dot com blew up.That's correct.Yeah, that's exactly correct.But did it, did, um, everything not failbecause of all this, um, because of thesteps that were taken.So was it a dud?A combo.Actually, would you say it was a combo?Cause there were sometruths to it, but a lot of fear.You needed to do it because if you didn'tand it didn't work, you would have been,you know, who wants to be that person thatdidn't, didn't, didn't address an issue.It was like a gamble.It would be a gamble, but to Brian's point,it might not have been near ascatastrophic as it wassold, but catastrophic away.Yeah.Because one, you know,budgets were available.Yeah, totally.So, so it was good.And I worked for Cisco at that point in Y2Kand you know, everybody, yeah.So, but anyway, prior to your question, wewere selling, you know, bodies totrain people, um, on these programs.You actually were, I mean, it's fascinatingto think of that time in yourlife, your, your generation where you guysare on the forefront of that.Someone your age, right?So to go from that, I was just getting intomy career and I was at a companythat was doing that and then the.com, uh,just, you know, the internet exploded andbeing at Cisco for that, that's a straightup trajectory, right?And that's when chamberswas doing all that stuff.Well, at one point they were the mostvalued company in the world and it changedquick cause you know,there was a boat bust, right?Yeah.Cause they were all overvalued.Yeah.They were, you know, you only sell whatyour revenue was this, your profitsystem, but they were doing multipliersthat didn't make sense.So there had to be a readjustment.But Cisco at the time, they Cisco at thetime displaced a via phones,Fujitsu phones, everybody you pick up aphone, you watch TV now, all those phonesyou see Cisco, you look at the white housephone of when their president'ssitting in the, whatever theoval offices, it's a Cisco phone.So that brings me to, um, for listeners whoare not, um, know nothing abouttechnology, like let'slike, they know nothing.How would you describe tosomeone what Cisco does?What is this?A company that enables you to do businessin a very efficient and effective way.And they do that by utilizing automationand software programs that kind of likewhat you're used to youriPhone now is does everything.So you can imagine that just prior to this,if someone would call, there was avoicemail, they'd get a sticky and theywould give that to you, but businessstill moved because you got the message andyou responded to it, but there wasno connection and therewas no immediate response.There was no, so I would say that Ciscojust provided all those kind ofinfrastructure elements and softwaresystems, really operating systems, butthat enabled people to have softwareprograms on them that enabled you to dothings that you couldn't ever do before.So businesses could do get into markets.They didn't serve before businesses couldexpand because it wasn't this big jumpto have to put a facility there.You could have a location andjust you're connected to it.So it really changed the playing field.And I think Brian, correct me if I'm wrong,because you're in the glass housenow, right?The CIO really only got in the glass housewhen all this happened, the chiefinformation officer used to be the, butthere was no, you know, the chiefoperating officer, the chief executive, butthen all of a sudden it became thatimportant and the CIO in the later ninetiesor maybe early 2000s, he wassitting at the tableand that wasn't happening.And that was around the Y2K time.Do you think Y2K had a lot to do with it?Probably.With everything was there like, let's bringthis person needs to be just asimportant as everyone elsebecause of what's going on.So you were there at thebirth of so much of this.Really?Yeah.Like you remember life before the internet.And then you were there, which we do too.But, um, professionally though, and then soprofessionally, how had, how did yourcareer change as technology grew?How did it affect your career?Not just opportunity wise, but just, um,hands on your daily life.Like you were there when there was anemail, then there was email and all thesedifferent things likehow did it affect you?I think overall, and I may be unique tosome degrees because of the career paththat I took being a salesperson, but youknow how everybody used to have to, youknow, two hours in from the Island in NewYork city, you needed to be at your office.Technology allowed you, you didn't have tobe there as long as you were beingproductive, so I could still help my wiferaise the kids and work out a home.Okay.So that was key.Um, but even more importantly, and again,what a blessing to become a globalaccount manager, I serviced price waterhouse when they merged with Cooperlibrarians.So if you think about it now, they're,they're all part of the big four, whateverthey are, big three down.But it was two 75,000 person firms merging.So they had locations and 152 countries.So I'm the global accountmanager for that account.That was the auditordid the books for Cisco.So here I am, this guy, I get this jobwhere I'm flying around the world.I have a global gateway account manager,somebody that knew the language,somebody that knew what's the right word,the traditions and etiquette.So I wouldn't, you know what I mean?Oh, so you're saying as you went todifferent countries, you had a companionor a kind of a consultant to say, okay,make sure to bow, take your shoes off here.Like a culture or a culture.And they called them global gateway.Cause it was one for Europe.There was one for Asia.There was, it was.So I mean, thinkabout, I'm able to hear him.Yeah.And that person loves it.Cause here I am, I'm whatever.And here's what's thegreatest thing about it.So this is from my standpoint,why I was so fortunate as well.Cause financially that was great, butbecause we sold to them millions andmillions and because they did Cisco'sbooks, it had to be, I learned how to youethical ethics where everything in JohnChambers would come into the street anddo our numbers every quarter.And I got to sit in the back room when hewas going to differentaccounts and help you sell.So, and I don't wantto make more than that.It is, but for several years, that manwould come in every quarter and most ofthe times he'd, Oh,let's go visit met life.Let's go visit equitable.And why it's interesting.Cause I've never known that you, um, butyou've always spoken highly of him andhow you're just like, love him.Yeah.Like you've always spoken highly of him.I've been an admirer of his as, as sort ofthe client side, cause to your point,this guy blew up tech, right?He changed the world in termsof just how the world works.And, and you asked, howwould you describe Cisco?I would say it's slightlydifferent from the client side.They made the internet work.The internet does not work without Cisco'srouters and switches.And now it's theirtelemetry, you know, voice stuff.They got rid of the pots line for the mostpart, other, you know, there's otherplayers there, but Cisco would have boughtthem and, and made it better andblew it up, but that explains to me now whyyou're such a, you're why you're sucha fan of his, why youlook up to him so much.He would come in, you're on these bigmultimillion dollar accounts,strategic accounts, global accounts.He rolls in JD.Let's go do this.And you're kind of, he's yourhe's helping you make it happen.Well, honestly, he had people.And yes, he would know my name, butrealistically, um, there was a, becauseit was growing so big, everything wasorchestrated properly and he'd comein, everything was set, but yeah, we, youknow, he'd go see accounts that I had.Or again, you needed to, he was, why likeJohn chamber so much, he was a good man.He was a good man.And he put good people around.And, you know, we were all talking abouthow that internet blew upyesterday with that, that couple.Yeah.You know what I mean?Oh my God.You know what I mean?That would never happen in a John chamber.Yeah.I mean, think about cold play.You've seen it, right?So I see stuff about a week before.Sometimes I'm like, have you seen it yet?You know, that one hit the press.She's the head of HR.Yeah.I mean, could it get any worse?No.I mean, the problem's not hers.She's no, no, no, but I'm yeah.I, oh, trust me.But it blows up families.It does.No, it's terrible.His wife had his last nameoff her socials that morning.Yeah.I mean, you can't doanything anymore, by the way.Yeah.That's the other thing.And that's where it really, well, nowwhat's funny is they'vebeen, I've seen on socialmedia, different like, um, Morgan Wallenand, um, different musicians that areplaying live right now, the last fewnights, and they'll say,okay, our camera's goingto go around.So if you're here with your secretary,separate and they're giving more like hopeever, and then there's people at likebaseball games and men have signs thatsay, this is my wife.This is my sister.So no, no, but you're right.So because you've been there from the verystart and, um, have gone along thejourney of technology as it's grown, um,from the aspect of a sales and sales.Yeah.Um, and you continue, I assume to go onthis journey and I, I'm assuming itcontinues to challenge you.And, um, you're always, you're kind ofalways at a little bit of a learningcurve every few years.Um, how, how would you, would you say thatthat has helped you stay young atheart and young in your mind because you'realways kind of plugged into what's goingon?Absolutely.And that it's helped you feel stillconnected with, um, the present day ofwhat's happening.Absolutely.Yeah.Cause you probably have toknow, I wouldn't say as much as likeBrian's and it he's more technical, but youprobably do have to know.Almost as much in order tobe able to sell it, right?Like you can't fix it if it breaksnecessarily, but you need to be able toknow a lot about what you're selling.Yes.I have good people around me, so I can'treally tell you that I'd be that guythat knows all what's behind it.But you know what?And, and, and, you know, Brian chime in ifyou, if you, cause I'd begood to know, but I like to think that, youknow, when you appreciate people thatare buying from you and when you have thisrelationship with them, where it'smutually respectful, even though I'mselling to them, it makes for thispartnership that youreally want your client to win.And of course you will as a salesperson orthe company you're working for,cause you're doing quality work.So I've always just wanted to provide avery good experience that goes longterm, because then you getrelationships with people.You're spending a lot of time with folksthat aren't your family, yourafter hours and things that are enjoyable.But at the same time, you know, I stillunderstand my role as a salesman.And, um, I look at that asbringing the right resources andmaking sure my client's good.I do that more like aquarterback than the technical side.Cause honestly, why went tocollege on the marketing side?And why was hot that door?I, I'm not that guy that can sit there andgo, yeah, you know, thisnano bite that talks to that.And I do kind of understand a lot of waythat works because over time, but I'mjust like, where's my engineer?Okay.Yeah. Yeah.Yeah.So a lot of people don't, there's a lot ofsalesmen, there are a lot moretechnical, for sure.But you're probably moreknowledgeable than you realize.I think so.Cause I have adapted to, like you said,changing technologies.And I'm, and I see a lot of people my agethat, you know, not they fear it,but they don't utilize it.Yeah.But I mean, I love a lot of things thatvideo and audio on this phone and thepictures I'm capturing of the family andthese things and how to message them orit's fantastically powerfulwhen you really think about it.So I won't be great about behind thescenes, but I do understand to your point.So as far as sales, um, you just describeda lot of the reasons why youenjoy it, um, as far as the relationshipwith your clients and, um, and thatyou're coming with good intentions.You're, you know, you're selling themsomething that's going to truly help them.You're not just selling to sell.You're selling, you have ameaning behind what you're selling.There's meaning behind it selfishly too.Of course.Because you know whatit does if you do well.Yeah, of course, of course, the family, butyou're selling with integrity.And you know what I wouldn't be ashopefully as good if there wasn't passionbehind what you're doing.Yeah.Yeah.Absolutely.And I do see what you're saying becausesome people it's just a job.I, yeah, I look at it different.Now I work for a person that I worked withat Cisco, who's just a wonderfulman and built a great company.Um, so there's that again, respectrelationship and delivering to yourclient, good stuff, so it kind of feelslike been a win-win to your point.There's, there's componentsof that that need to be done.Right.So yeah, it has, I mean,there's some authenticity to it.Absolutely.And you're proud.You're proud of the business.You're proud of what you're doing.And that probably has contributedsignificantly to your success becausepeople can see throughit if it's not that way.I think you're correct.So, you know, so is there also though foryourself personally, um, do youenjoy that hit of making the sale?Totally.Yeah.Do you like to gamble?No.Okay.That's so interesting because, um, ourolder son is a salesman and he likes togamble, not in a bad way.He doesn't have a problem, but he likes togo with his friends, the casino andstuff and, um, my father gamble, my greatgrandfather, my grandfather.And I think one of the reasons he enjoyssales is because that hit is similar towhen you hit when you're gambling.Yeah.Yeah.So I wondered, yeah, I've wondered ifsalesman in general, like to alsogamble because it's like the same hit.I've always wondered that and you've beendoing it for so many years.So I didn't know if you, if you, or ifyou've known other sales guys that liketo gamble, not as a problem, just for fun.I understand your point.Yeah.I think people finddifferent, you know, entertainment.That's that's all good.I always looked at it thatyou work too hard to risk that.I bet.You know what I mean?Yeah.I like the environment being around, butnow I'm at, and it might be also that Idon't sit still real good, like play boardgames with family members or thingsthat are great to see I'm moving.So you're, so have you always been likethat since you're a little kid?Yeah.Okay.Yeah.So sports was good for you.Great for me.Okay.And yeah, sales would be like that, right?Sales would be like that.Next chase, that next thing, that nextthing that got back to when youanswer that question, did youknow what you're going to be?No, but yeah.Yeah.You knew you had to dosomething with your hustle and moving.And you, are you an extrovert?Yeah.Yeah.Like you enjoy meeting new people andtalking to them no matter where you are.No matter where.Yeah.So you have all the components.I do.And I've learned too.Cause like I said,I've been very fortunate.Uh, my wife's family's dynamite.There's a bunch of successful people inthere and I saw how they've interactedwith people I've been able, as I told youto travel and see how they interactedwith people.So I hope that we're doing that right.But yeah, I'm definitely out there jumpingaround and meet and greeting.Okay.When you were traveling, um, around theglobe, uh, for work, how, what countrieslike, what would you saywere your top countries?I love to reminisce on it.Cause once I get closer toretirement, I want to do more.I was so lucky.Um, that I was the type guy that when youhad meetings, there was alwaysbe like a Thursday, Fridayand a next Wednesday, right?You got these certain peoplethat would come in and out.God bless them.I get it.I wasn't that guy.I was, I'm going to do the right thing, butat the same time, I'm going to see.I'm here.Yeah.And then, you know, a lot of the times,because we had great, my wife'sfamily in particular, youknow, would help us with the kids.My wife would join us on thetail end and that was wonderful.She loved to travel.We love to travel together, but I'd have tosay Europe has always just beenphenomenal, you know, I love my, you know,experiences in Asia, but, uh, I lovethe field of history in Italy and France.I love the comfort ofspeaking English in England.Not that a lot of other countries don't.It's a lot of do, but Ijust love that for some reason.So Europe was where I felt most.I love that.But, um, seeing the othercultures was, was great.Cause it really made me feel that much moreboy, we're a great country.We have, even though there's, there's bumpsand, uh, it was interesting.Even all those years ago to hear people,what they thought of as good and bad,there was still like, you know what?You guys are, you guys are something.So do you feel that, um,like, cause it feels like now.There's a lot of America, America hateAmerica stuff outside of America.But when you were traveling,you're saying that, um, youencountered more pro America.Yeah.But there was also negative.If you guys remember thatshow, like Dallas, yeah.Okay.So, you know, these things,they play these things like that.But like, if you go to a,uh, Parisian restaurant, right.And, you know, I can remember walking causeI forgot, what a city.Um, the people would snap their fingers fora waiter and you never do that.And you knew they were American and it justmeans you're not being, or, andthe reason I bring Dallas cause you know,they'd be sitting there and you know,you'd have your boots up on the table.Yeah.There's certain things etiquette wise.You just don't do.So I think they thinkthat there was some of that.And because we were for lack of a betterword, but top dog, you know, a lot of me,you know what I mean?People would look for that, but I thinkthere was also a lot of respect andespecially if youhandled yourself properly.And like I said, I was so fortunate to beable to have a gateway accountmanager and be like, listen, you know, youwait, you turn, if you're going to sitthere and show them that you, you want thebill real quick,you're going to wait longer.Yeah.So, you know, it's cool.Yeah.Greatest country whereI would, I love Italy.I think Italy is to catch me out ofcountries and I'd like to gift.Yeah.Did you go?So you did Europe, you didAsia, did you go to China?I didn't, I was never able to go to China.I didn't get to Japan.Want to do that, but a lot of, you know,Vietnam and Thailand and Hong Kong,Australia was a trip.Whoa, God.I love those people.I've always wanted to go to Australia.Oh, you guys on my list.Yeah.We need to do that.I really want to go to Australia, you know?And you know, it's well, what a country,you know, I, obviously once you startgetting on the, what do you call that?The Western side or, youknow, how Sydney and the coast.You're on the stick side.Yeah.The stick side.I didn't do that per se, but I mean,there's some crazy nature, but I mean,oh my God, talk about just beautifulenvironment and people that justseem to get how to enjoy done right.Cause they're all sosuccessful at what they do.So that was, that was right up there too.And you know, it's an English speaking andagain, not knowing other languages.And God, I wish that'sone of the regrets I have.I wish I learned languages.Cause I think there's power in that.Oh, absolutely.But again, go in thereand being comfortable.Cause again, there'speople in different countries.France is a great example.Unless you've got the right thing.They don't, they really don't want to helpyou out unless you're,you know, making some effort,which is, you can get by in, inFrance with just English.I found you can, I've been in Hong Kong andeven China, you can get by with English.Yeah. Now there's tools that can help you.But I mean, like if you'rethat person that is being kind of.Abrupt or rude.Cap driver.Yeah.He's going to act likeI don't understand you.At least that's my experience.Yeah.So, so I just think again, it's just beapproach it properly and, and, youknow, be respectful cause you are insomebody else's country.Absolutely.Yeah.Did you ever go to South America?Um, you know, LatinAmerica, that's about it.That's about it.I have not made it down there.We didn't do a lot ofbusiness down there for some reason.And it seemed like I was traveling onbehalf of Pricewaterhouse Cooper forCisco and they were muchlarger in, uh, Europe and Asia.What about Africa?Never, never that, that'd be a dream too.So how many years didyou do this traveling?It's a long time.It was wonderful.Wow.Wonderful.That is so cool.So when, okay.So you, you, we covered your, um, when yougraduated and you worked, but whenin there did you meet your wife?I have one question really quick.Okay.Cause I'm, I'm real curious on that fronttoo, but in terms of the sales approach,you're, you started young right out ofcollege and what do youthink's changed for you over that time?And I think what I was thinking is she wasasking you about your technical,you know, are you technical?Can you do it?Have you always had the same approach orwhen did it maybe kick off and evolveto where you're really more clientrelationship management more so thanI'm going to sell you something, right?It's never, I've got this product.I want you to buy it.It's more like, how can I help?What problems do you have?What solutions can I bring you?Right?I think that's more your approach.How long did it take before you got there?What'd you say?Great question.Cause this will help your boy.Okay.Being a relationship person,I want to hang out with them.They want to hang out with me.So if you have a connection that, Hey,whether it's you're going out,you're taking them out or you're golfing oryou know, and again, there'scertain people that don't, you don't haveto have that kind of relationship.But whatever that is, if you find a tiethat finds you're already at bat,you're already on first, second base.Yeah.So I was always that guy was in play.Yeah.I'd hang out with people that were in play.I'm not saying we were better than anybody,you know, probably thought wewere, but the net of it is, is we justwere, it was great to meet peopleand it was great to kind of connect.Yeah.So that's first.And then second to your point over time,Brian, you realize that only takes youso far can be a door opener company.You work for it can be a door opener, butthe reality is, is what's my value to them.Yeah.And that did take some time.But I think that if what I know now, I wishI would have known then wasunderstanding, like you said, take the timeto understand what's important toyour client and you know, before I wouldbe, you know, I'm not taking the time toread somebody's financial things andunderstanding where they're going.And realistically that's powerful,especially children nowadays, or excuseme, young adults, there's so muchinformation out there.You can Google things and find it.Oh, by the way, I hearyou got this initiative.I never knew those kinds of things.Yeah.So the value proposition is key, but I alsothink where you really get good atit, because no matter how good your companyis or no matter how it never seemsto rain, you're going to run intosituations where, you know, your companyor you or it was an act of God, but goodthings didn't happen.How you handle it then is more importantthan how you handle it.When everything's going great.Yeah.I think that's a, it'sactually a great point.Even in the non sales world, right?How you deal with adversity and treat thepeople around you during those weirdtimes or just how you handle it reallystarts to define you then more so thanwhen things are good, no doubt about it.Yeah.That's a great point.How much would you say self-awareness comesinto play as a salesman?A lot more than I gave it credit for.And great that you bring that up becausethat's probably a weakness of mine.I kept going without evaluating.It naturally happened that I think I gotbetter at what I did, but theself-awareness, I didn't take time to, toreally go down that path.You know, I would listen to people who'dmentor and give me help, but I justseem to be moving on and not reallyevaluating unless it was, you know,obviously critical or something like that.But that's a, it's, it's good to think thatyou could get yourself in a betterplace by doing more of that.But,and then how much wouldyou say delusion helps?And when I say that, I mean, fake it toyou, make it like just believe in yourselfand just go for it.So it's like, I feel like it's a balancebetween self-awareness and delusionalmost, because if you're too self-aware,you can get analysis paralysis where youum, you're like, I can't do it, you know,or you think to overthink it, but then ifyou, um, are too delusional, then you'renot going to, you're not authentic anymore.Would you say that's accurate?Like that balance of the two?I think you're, yeah.Does that make sense?It does.And you know, I have, again, really thoughttoo much about it, but since we'retalking about it, you're making a reallygood point, because if you think aboutthat, that balance would make for a verygood rep, somebody that's willing to putthemselves in play, somebody evaluatingthemselves to be smart.And then, you know, what's interestingabout it, you can be lucky a lot too.I got lucky inheriting account.That was one of the biggest accountingfirms or what do they call them?Consulting firms at that time.And then being able towork with a company leader.So there's a lot of luck and luck.You can put yourself in play.Um, and that happens, but it's probably avery good mix of that.I didn't ever lookedat it that way as much.And I probably could begood because I really do.I always look at myself and I think it wasa good sales rep, but not a great rep.And it's not cause I'm not a really goodguy and I care causeI'm a good quarterback,but never took the time to keep.How am I working day to day to get better?The guy that I work for now, that's aleader, but also a very good family friend.He's good at, you know,what's your pre call planning?Did you sit there afterwards and then sendthat follow up email?And those ones that do it are good becausethey're taking the time before and afterto really spend some time looking at whatthey just did instead of moving on to next.So I always moved on to next somewhatsuccessfully, rather successfully, butthe hitters would do the mix of the threethings that you just said, the, that, thatbalance, the other thing too, though, whereyou're going as well as that's anentrepreneurial trait ofI'm going to go sell it.And, and if I get it and Iland it and it's like, oh wow.All right.It happened.Now let's make it happen.So they're willing tofake it a little bit, right?I'm bigger than I'm going to let you thinkI'm bigger than I really am.And if you bite, I'm goingto make sure I make it happen.And that's, that's right.Cause if you don't, then you know, thenyou're not that, yeah.Cause there is risk in that, but there'sprobably a bigger upside quite frankly.Can't hesitate.Cause then you createdoubt with your client, right?And you're, you have to, you have to atleast appear you believe a hundred percentin what you're selling without hesitation.I'd be that guy that couldn't work for acompany that wasn't, you gotta deliverthose, you know, there's no question youwant a good product of good service beingdelivered and you know,don't, don't compromise.You know what I mean?You know, because there are good companiesand you want to be with the good companythat makes good park,but also great culture.And then you, you know, then your life'sthat much more enjoyable for sure.Yeah.Because would you say that, um, for asalesman that wants to be truly successful,they need to be working for a company theybelieve in and that they enjoy.And if they're working for a company thatthey're miserable at, or they're not,um, satisfied, it's going to, um, affecttheir growth as a sales salesperson.Absolutely.But I think it also bleeds into other areasthat may be more important.If you're not happy, howdoes that help your health?If you're not happy, how does that helpyour relationship with your, your spouse?Yeah.How's that help you with your kids?So I think there's a, it's a, it's, youknow, it's a whole package deal typeof thing from my perspective.I think you need to be healthy.I think you need to be challenged.I think you need to be, you know, and allthose kinds of things.And it's not saying that's easy, but youknow, I don't want to be in a culturewhere they're not paying it forward.Do you know what I mean?Yeah.And I'm not saying you have to be, youknow, UNICEF orthey're even around anymore.I think so.But you get what I'm trying to say.I absolutely do.Yeah.I just, you know, I want our company.They pay it forward.They do the right thing.So in your experience, I'm sure you've comeacross a lot of different sales people.Have you encountered, um, salespeople thattheir whole world is falling apartpersonally, but they'restill out there grinding.And, um, and you think that what's going onpersonally hasaffected them professionally.Absolutely.But really definitely, butalso the other way around.In what way?That you're saying they're still grinding.I think that kind of caused it.Do you know what I mean?In other words, it's self-fulfilling.It's self-fulfilling.You know what I mean?Give yourself, I mean,why is that happening?You know what I mean?Yeah.But, but, but yeah, absolutely.Yeah.You know, I have this kind of personality,probably addictive, to be quite honest,that served me well, andalso created some challenges.So I'll see.The reason I bring that up is becauseyou'll see sales reps that, you know,they're not doing the right things, youknow, uh, eating too much, drinking toomuch, staying out too much, putting theirselves in situations that aren't healthy.And I understand you learn with age how tomake better decisions, but the net ofit is the ones that make bad decision inthose categories, it goes right downthe path you talk about.They're not healthy.They're not happy.They may be working fine and stuff likethat, but boy, I don't know how that.Yeah.You may be wired and that's okay, but Idon't see a lot of that.I see a lot of people trying to do theright thing and, you know, trying to,and there are some more driven and there'sreasons for, but you can tell ifsomeone's going to be,you know what I mean?If they, they're nothandling things, right?And it looks like they're going to hit awall or something like that.Is it a hard thing to fight where if,especially if you're traveling and soyou're meeting new people, you're out todinners, you're doing all these fun things.Is it, can it be hard for certain people?Do you think to then have to downshift whenthey're home and just slow down alittle bit because you're always on, you'realways, you know, talking to people.There's always new andexciting stimuli coming at you.And then when you get home to your family,when people, people who sell,come home to their family, they're livingthe more monotonous day to day life.Do you think that can be hard for somesalespeople that transition?Absolutely.Absolutely.Do you think sometimes then they end uptaking on more work and being gonemore cause that's easier than being home?I imagine so.That kind of gets back to how do you handlethat relationship at home?How is your relationship with your spouse?Are you doing the right thing to make surethat that person's needs are being met?Yeah.And then the kids, so you got to make sureyou figure that all right.Cause cause you don't want it to go down apath where it doesn't work out becauseof it, but certainly I think you're ahundred percent right that that could godown that path, you know, just becauseyou're right, you got to be on.But if you think about nowadays, right?Like, um, I think you were talking theother day about, you know, technicalproblems and you had to beon phone calls for whatever.So even though you're working for home,that's a, that's a tough thing.And the next day you'reshot because you were on calls.So there's a mixed bag of that.So you got to get both, right?Whether, you know, it'sgood that you can be remote.It's good.If you're going in, you good, you find thebalance, but the net of it is got to beable to be find that balanceso that you're healthy, right?You do that through your sports or, youknow, whatever you're doing, your coldplunge, your yoga, you know, taking thewife out of your, your relationship withfriends and finding a good balance becauseyou're right, there is a heavy load.And you know what I mean?I, you know, I was so happy.My wife was able to stay at home until thekids left high school and raise thekids, which she did phenomenal on.And that, you know, I've definitely feltpressured to produce.Yeah.Yeah.I think it did create some issues.Absolutely.Yeah.Absolutely.Yeah.Valid point.Yeah.Cause it's such a delicate balance.And especially if you have one spouse who Iremember when he traveled, there was,you didn't do this again after that, but hecalled me from Madrid, from like a barto tell me how wonderful everything is.And our kids were like three, three andsix, and I'm making mac and cheese andhave to give baths andeveryone's screaming.And I think your dad actuallysaid, don't ever do that again.That's not what you do.But I think it can be, it can be where youhave, there has to be an understanding.There has to be good communication becauseyou have one spouse that is outthere working for thefamily, supporting the family.And then the other spouse is holding downthe home front, raising the family,doing all the things so that the spousethat's leaving can go leave and not worryabout the home front, which is priceless.Um, but that spouse that's gone is living alittle bit more of a, you know, a funexistence, you know?And so there has to be that, I'm sure inyour marriage, you had to find thatbalance, it's not like you came home andwere like, guess what I did.I think I created some issues.You're, you're right.Yeah.That's why it ended up being great when mywife was able to come.Yes.And you know, quite honestly, at least frommy perspective, her job is so muchmore important than mine.I mean, raising those kidsjust the same way you did, right?Yeah.You know what I mean?Yeah.And I don't want to speak for you, but frommy perspective, hugelyoutweighs what I did.I understand making the money and all thatstuff and all the things behind it.But I liked what I saw washappening with my children.So it goes together.It's a partnership, right?Absolutely.And the communication I think is a hundredpercent key, but I always say,he laughs, but I always do say that, um,you know, I, I was able to, it was aprivilege for me to stay home because Brianwas able to provide that, but itwas a privilege for him to be able to justgo and build his career without onesingle worry about thehouse or the kids or anything.He didn't even have togive it a second thought.So we both were privileged from ourpartnership and not that it was easy.We're going on 31 years this September.Um, there's been ups and downs, marriages,ups and downs, and there's bad days,bad weeks, bad months, whatever.But I think that communication, butespecially in your situation wherethere's somebody traveling, I think it cancreate, um, extra challenges inmarriage and marriagein general can be hard.So that communication is so important.Yeah.And by the way, you're right.It did.Yeah.Yeah.It absolutely did.Yeah.We managed through it and we'll be married37 years and we're 38 in September.You better figure out which one.Yeah.Well, 1987.So what does that mean?That's 38.I'm not mad.It's going to be 38.That's amazing.When in September, 26.Oh, we're the 17th.Okay.Cool.Yeah.I do have a question.I think it's a perfect segue.I want to get into how you meant your wife.Yeah.Yeah.Yeah.That was going to be my next question.Two comments, one comment, one questionthat bar Madrid was amazing.It's like a 200 or 300 year old Irish club.Amazing.It's like, I think itwas three or four stories.Hi, it was amazing.Spain's a beautiful country.Oh, it's my favorite city.Here it is a gift.That was his favorite.Yeah.Yeah.The question I have, it's interesting.I was talking to someone who's about yourage, actually guy I worked with theother day, just talking about sort of thatenlightenment that we go through.I feel like, you know, this podcast hasprobably helped me, um, learn somethings, you know, just talking like thismeeting incredible people and talkingabout, you know, like your life story andall this, when did, do you have a pointwhere you remember where maybe a light bulbwent off and you had some sense oflike, it may be an epiphany or therealization of just understood things alittle bit better thingsstarted to fall into place.Was that your early fifties?And if that doesn't make sense, I could tryto clarify, but you mean personally,yeah, personally, where you were justwisdom is the word I'm looking for.Where you kind of feltlike, okay, I kind of got this.I understand what I should do.I understand that I didn't do that.Does that make sense?And do you recall a moment in life whenthey're that click for you?I understand the question.I can't say a moment in life, but, but toput color around that.Certain things are important.I knew that they were going along the rightpath, like the raising of the kids,even like you said, calling from Madrid.I mean, I must have probably done that.And you know, and it's so funny because youtend to forget, but I can remembermy wife, man, you know,and we didn't have help.Like her parents, when we moved down here,we're here and they, it's thegreatest of the kids.Shearsie was with the kids alone.So I can't say anyone, but I mean, it justseemed like over time, there wasjust these, I started feeling that, youknow, not making as many mistakes.Grew up a little bit.Yeah.Cause you know, mistakes can be painful.You know what I mean?And who wants that?You know, and I feel like I had a lot ofbreaks and then you start going, man,you don't want to be onthe other side of, you know.Yeah.Yeah.Yeah.I wonder sometimes, is there a moment formen when they're in amarriage, when they really kind of lookaround and think, I am so lucky.Like I am so lucky that I have thismarriage and these children, but thatyou start to see people that are divorcingor things are falling apart andyou take stock in what you have.Is that kind of what you're talking about?Yeah.I feel like I'm in that andI've been in it for a little while.And I'm just curious cause it's, I'm notsaying it's a new thing.I've always been a pretty conscious person,but I've also had the ability tobe a jerk and just let it, you know, callfrom a bub and Madrid at three in themorning and say, how warm the, right?So I wouldn't do that again.I know not from that, but just, I dunno,you, yeah, you grow up, you get a littlemore conscious, a littlemore awareness type of thing.Yeah.I'll add this Brian, since having grandkidsand now you're looking atthis from a different perspective and it'sa mind blowing, you're going to love it.You had the three kids and ifyou're, I've never seen my wife.I mean, we of course happy.We've enjoyed the kids somuch now more than ever.I was the officiant of my son's marriage.That's amazing.And you know, my daughter'sgetting married in January.Oh, I didn't know that.Congrats.Thank you.I mean, he's marrying his name, Eric Katz.He's a great guy.He's a Jewish guy and his father, Ron Katzand I are going to be theofficiants at my daughter's wedding.So I feel so connected in that way.Do you know what I mean?Yeah.No, that's a whole nother phase.It's a whole nother phase.So now that my kids have got older and youstart understanding that, you know,you did a lot of the right things and nowI've got these grandkids and I'mlike, I got this and my kids, because youhad made a point and wanted, no, one ofyour podcasts I was listening to.And you were talking about not puttingyourself front and center with, youknow, your kids' kids and you were talkingto my wife and I played that.I played it so well, but a beautiful babyand how two of them, but hey, how can wehelp let us know?Cause we're only 10 minutes away if thatnaturally involved in this thing where,oh my God, we, we love our son, but ourdaughter-in-law is amazing.And we help each other.We try not to overstep and it's so justcommunicate, but honestly, it hasn't beenthat way.It just kind of has worked.So it's, you know, a mutual respect, but atthe same time, you know, I wouldn'thave taken the approach and just jumped andforced ourselves on it.Right.No, we did.That's, you'd be amazing how many people,amazed at how many people do, you know,and then there's a lot of,they suffer the consequences.I don't want that.No, no, no.So actually, what advice would you give topeople whose children, adult childrenhave not gotten married yet?What advice would you give to parents onhow to be a good in-law to their futurespouse?Take it slow.Right.Cause you don't know that person.Well, you may think you do, you may have acouple of experiences, but take it slowbecause you really want to learn about thatperson over time, some trips with them.So maybe one-on-ones or some whatever itmay be naturally that evolves, learn moreabout them and then slowly, butsurely, how can you be helpful?How can you be kind?How can you make it a better day so thatthe relationship just blossoms in a goodway?Doesn't mean there won't be bumps becausethere absolutely will be humans that, youknow, aren't perfect.But, uh, yeah, take it slow.Learn it, learn a good bit.Don't put the cart before the horse.Even if you like these, I can't think thatyou know, you want certain things tohappen, but you can't make them happen.So be a great participant to help it unfoldin the best for everybody involved.Great advice.Right.Yeah.No, that's wonderful advice and respecttheir boundaries too.Right.Totally.Yeah.Totally.Yeah.And how important would you say it is tomake them feel welcome into the familyfrom day one?Key, especially, you know, there's, there'speople have issues that they'vegrown up with.We've all had certain things, some betterthan others, some worse than others, butyou don't want to, you know, there, there,some people don't have great parents.And then all of a sudden they're in thishouse and it's Brady bunches.Are you guys know what the Brady bunches?Oh yeah.Okay.Yeah.Yeah.Yeah.Yeah.Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But you know, we're seeinglike everything was pretty cool.Yeah.We grew up watching the Brady.Yeah.Yeah.Yeah.That's our air.In your thing, strolling me for a little,but for us, um, it was reruns.Okay.Yeah.Yeah.Yeah.Yeah. Yeah.Yeah.Yeah. That shit was life.Uh, maybe we're really littlelike, but no, I think it stopped.Okay.But I thought when they were in Hawaiidoing that, like ski jump competition.Okay.Maybe it was, maybe it was the earlyseasons that were reruns, but no, no, Ithink you're right.I think like we were there for maybe likeour age could remember live, but thenthe early ones that were black and white.That's crazy.Yeah.So funny.You remember that, but yeah, but I mean,how I deal with, you know, just themusic was great and they got it.So, but a lot of, you know, I, and I seethis because again, some of the thingsthat I do outside of, uh, my direct family,you see, these people aren'thaving the luxury of two good parents doingthe right thing and being there.Yeah.You know what I mean?Yeah.You know, I was telling you about thatEucharistic ministry thing and it'ssuch an awesome thing to do it.And I do it for the sick and dying.And it's so interesting to hear what theytell you as you're getting older andgetting ready to move on and what's goingto blow your mind won't blow yourmind, but one of the main things you'llhear is I wish I spent more time withfamily and they'll go, I was just trying towork really hard, but you know, mydaughter holds it againstme because I wasn't there.So there's regret on not being there.And again, some of it's selfish and youmake your own bed, but some of it, oh, Ijust thought I was working so hard.So, so important.And the other one, thisis just blows me away.They'll go, I didn't speak tomy brother for like 40 years.And the guy, you know, he's on his deathbed and he's just like, why did I let thathappen? So it gets back to those familyties and it gets back to getting over thosehurdles and just, you know, making thatwork out because when you can't change andit's getting to that point, it's, and it'sall in those similar regrets.It's like, Oh, I wish I made more money.I don't think that matters at that point.It's about you, what your kids are going tosay about you and your, anyway, not tokeep going, but it's so interesting to hearand go, I wish I would have well, thendo it.Yeah.So yeah.And I've, it's not the first time I'veheard that, but at your door, you'redirectly involved here.And so hearing that is, uh, it's kind ofpowerful because you hear that you canread it and go on Yahoo.com or whatever andread that, but to hear it and you seeit firsthand, that'sprobably way more powerful, I guess.I've been able to use it.My friends got a great friend that I love.I speak golf and where it's, it's so cooland may not be as close to his brother.There's some whatever.Yeah.He was talking to meabout a certain things.And I said, have youreally thought about that?So I learned from that gentleman that saidthat to me about why didn't I speak to mybrother for 40 years?Yeah.And you know, and that may be a little bitof dramatic example, but the point being,if you can control it and you can be there,you're not going to, you're going to feelgood about how things unfold as you age.Yeah.And the investment, I think one of the,what you were referring to the video maybewas also talking about the investment youput into your children, their childhoodand being there and present, you get thereward when they're adult children andthey give you access to their life.Cause it's amazing howmany access to the reward.It's the reward, right?Like our, our, our, our, even our 15 yearold still will hang out with us, but ouradult children want to hang out with us.And we're every time we're like, mydaughter asked me ifI'd go to yoga tomorrowmorning.I'm like, yes, of course.My favorite thing.So it's our favorite thing.Absolutely.You guys were, you would, you're verysimilar to my, and it's so important.You got to work and it doesn't meaneverything's perfect.Yeah.But when you think about that and you know,it kind of gets back to so importantwhether it's a man or woman that stay athome person, I think is more importantthan, you know, especially as times unfoldand there's so much pressure to earn.But man, I'm glad my wifestayed home and let's go there.Let's go.How did you meet your wife?Where did you meet her?Yes.I've been married 37 years.I know I've said hi to herbefore, but let's hear it.Okay.When did you meet her?Okay.So, um, I guess like 85, 86,right out of college, right.Her sister was, uh, ran thesoccer team for James Madison.So we'd share fields and she was just thisbeautiful, cool girl.Did she go there?Oh, she was.She played soccer for James Madison.Okay.My wife's sister.Yeah.That's okay.Okay.So we were just great buddies, greatbuddies and our groups hung out together.And you know, love her still to this day.They live near us.You know what I mean?Um, and we graduated, I don't know.I went up to New York with my buddies doingour thing and she's like, Hey, comedown, we're having a party.Um, you know where she lived at the time,you know, where was that?Like, I think it was Fairfax, Virginia.Okay.Yeah.They're Virginia girls.Um, and again, I met theparty, got a bunch of friends.Life is good.This beauty walks in the house.Starts shaking.My dad said, you guys, the energy changed,at least for me and having him, excuseme, have said that I, I knew something wasdifferent at that point and then howit unfolded.So very quickly, we knew she was flying upto New York shortly thereafter.Wow.Yeah.So it was instantaneous.And by the way, you guys, I'm sure for heras it was for me, I was popping around.So ho Greenwich village, going into thecity, Nick games, taking clients out todinner on Cisco.I wasn't looking for love to get married.Yeah.You really wasn't ready to settle down.That could be a little bit ofcause some of the immaturity.Mm-hmm.Back to what caused some of the, how oldwere you when you got married?So 87.So I was 26.She was 25.Yeah.You guys were young.We were 23.Yeah.Yeah.That's even that I can'timagine, but you're right.It's young.We, my first kid was born when I was 30.So I felt good about that because we wereable to do a bunch, but I wasn't ready.I wasn't.And by the way, not sure enough too,because commitment made a lot of sense, butthere were other priorities and what theysaid when they were reading vowsdidn't make sense untilyou really go through it.Yeah.Yeah.Yeah.So it's true.I, I, we always say we feel like we grew uptogether because we got married sayingyou're twenties.You grow so much in your twenties.You change your frontal lobe.Doesn't even close to your 26.I think, you know, we gotmarried before our frontal lobe.Well, we were, we were married, had a kid.We had Nathan at 26 at a young age and thenhad Kaya at 29 and then popped up.With Dylan at 38.Yeah.I know that I can still remember that whenthat's our bonus, but you'd love being amom from the get go from the get go.So you were that I wanted that.In fact, we had a discussion before we gotmarried and I made it very clear that Iwanted to be a stay at home mom because mychildhood was total chaos.My parents divorced and married otherpeople divorced and married again.And I had step siblingsand half siblings and moving.It was just chaos.And so I wanted stability.And I wanted to give mychildren the childhood I wanted.I wanted to make cookies and have themthere when they got home from school.I wanted the traditional 1950s, quoteunquote, Norman Rockefeller.I wanted it.I wanted it.And he wanted thatbecause he grew up like that.His mom was home tillhe went to junior high.Um, so he had, hisparents were still married.Um, he had a very traditional upbringing.So we, we were like minded andwhen we got married, we're 23.We didn't have any money.Like we lived in a house that was probablyliterally the size of this room.Not much bigger than this room.When we brought Nathanhome, including the kitchen.Yeah.When he, and we're not exaggerating whenhe, we brought Nathan home.His crib was like here.Um, like in, in the, therewas a room, his crib was there.So I stayed home even then.Like I, I went, we went without for me tostay home because that's howimportant it was to both of us.I just couldn't put him indaycare and none of that.So, and then we built the career together.And we had a pretty meanindependent street too.I think we were livingin Oregon at the time.Yeah.We could have probably chosen some easierroutes, but we were pretty independent.We could have lived in Michigan or Jerseynear family and probably had more help,but we were doing it on our own.You were madly in love.Yes.You had a child together.Yeah.Had to be one of thebest times in your life.Right.It was, it was great.Like, especially Nathan beingborn was, I don't even know.It was magical.It's weird.We were kids raising kidsand it was like, I don't know.I feel like my whole life isblessed since we've had a family.So to go back and pick thatas the best time, I don't know.Today was pretty special.I mean, what an amazing, when you thinkabout it, because you obviously weren'tearning, no, no, you livein, but my point is how cool.I can just remember that just being withsimilar, a little, little bitdifferent, but very simple.Well, I think part of marriageis building the life together.So many younger generations, I think, and Ithink a lot of it has to do withsocial media and comparingyour life to others so easily.Um, but I think they think they need tohave the big house and the cars and allthe things before they get married.And it's like, no, some ofthis is you build it together.Is there is something aboutstarting out small and doing it.That's the marriage.That's the foundation.And, um, that creates that strength andthose ups and downs and thatadversity and all that.So it's, I mean, it's wonderful.Once you get all those things, it's lovely.There's that that's great.And that's the goal,but I'm doing it together.You go, I think you go through things thatkeep you together, you know, insteadof just having it all there and then, Idon't know, having it all there cansometimes really create problems, having alot of money, not that, but I mean,yeah, you live in an affluent area.I live in a fluent area and a lot of thekids that have problems, they haven'tbeen told to do chores orhaven't had, you know what I mean?There's, there's, there's issues.No, you have to have that work ethic andyou have to have an appreciation formoney and the cost of thingsthat doesn't, and that earn it.Cause then you, um, you enjoy it, but ifyou're just given things, then youreally never understand howto be happy about something.You know what I mean?I do.I do.And that that's great.Cause that kind of levels things out.If you think about it, you don't want toalways struggle, but at the same time,you just want it to work, butyou do want that appreciation.Yeah.You want your kids to be good.You want to be good, you know,again, we were down to earth.Yeah, absolutely.And real when, uh, soyou guys got together.Oh, you're going to the party.You went to the party, hemet her and then she came up.Yeah.He came up.Did she move up?Uh, we're shortly thereafter.And then did you guys live together?Yeah.And then from how long was it from the timeyou met to got married?Less than two years.Not even it happened quick.And her, her family was from.Um, Northern Virginia.Okay.But what's wild and thisis why it worked out again.So fortunate when you think about it.So that now we had twokids, little ones in New York.I'm living out on theNorth shore of Long Island.It's a great friends andstill to this day, wonderful.But I'm going into New Yorkcity, going back in New York.It's lovely.It is, is not having been a grind.It's a grind.So her dad, her stepdadreally just phenomenal man.Anyway, it was very intelligent.I had a company that built, uh,intelligence andcockpits during the Reagan era.So he software did different things so thatthese cockpits had intelligence.Um, sold the company did very well andmoved to of all things, Capecoral to start got into real estate.Eventually moved his way down into FortMyers and then ended up in Naples.So here we are after X amount of years inNew York and we're ready.And he's like, come on down.And Cisco was like, Idon't care where you live.It was meant to be.So I went from that wonderful experience,but burning out, as you said, it was, Iwas, you know what I mean?The rat race was in thereduring the Giuliani years.Right.It was.So that's when New York was wonderful.Yeah.Cause I started with therainbow coalition with David Dinkins.That administration was not a good one inmy opinion, no disrespect, butGiuliani came in andcleaned things up and it was nice.And I'll tell you this, you know, I stillgo back and forth and we would go in.We bring the kids.I would go with the kids by myself.Toys are us.And that whole Times Square was different.There was things youcould do with kids then.Absolutely.Yeah.You can't say it's changedfor the better as of now late.So that's a shame.It is.It breaks my heart.It's it'll, it'll be a circle though.Cause when I was a kid, we'd go into thecity and it was dangerous.There were hookers on the street.Yeah.Yeah.Yeah. Yeah.So on drugs, the squeegee guys, it was funbeing in high school doing that.But then I went to college, came back andGiuliani had taken over and it was likeDisney, so we're back tothat squeegee mode right now.I'm hoping though.I don't know.It's a little crazy there right now.I'm hoping it'll sort itself out.It doesn't certainly sound like what'sgoing on in the potential mayor.Anyway, you just want safety, right?You want to be able to, you know, take yourkids into the city and experiencegreat and not that you kill stamp, but yougot to admit you better be, youbetter be smart about it, right?Were you, were you there thenfor nine 11 or had you moved?Sounds yet move a year before.Okay, cool.Terrible.Yeah.No, it's horrible.We were so glad to move and we still goback once a year, twice a year,dependent upon, we got some good friends,but living in Naples the last 25 yearshas been nothing but, but beautiful.It's gotten too busy since the pandemic.Everywhere in Florida.Right.So everywhere in Florida.Yeah.But, but again,Before you guys got married, like how Isaid, Brian and I had that talk about howwe envision raising children and then I'dbe home and he'd work.Did you and your wife have just adiscussion about roles or how you saweach of you playing outyour role in the marriage?No.And would you say that, um, that was neededor you should have, or did yougo, did it just happennaturally for you guys?Happened naturally.But I think if that discussion was had, itwould probably been a little bit better.And the only reason I say that is sheworked for city core at the time,Citibank, and she was, she did well.She did well.And she wanted kids, but you know,everything changes the moment you have akid and then like I said, I wasn't, youknow, a couple of miles down the street.Right.So, you know, for it work.So I think that was a difficult change, butshe just loved being a mom.So that all worked out, but that discussionprobably would have been more prudent.We just fell in love.And so let's go.Would you say that that's pretty common inyour generation that just to go for itand not have the communicating beforehandabout those things, but wasn'tdiscussed as much maybe.I think so.I think you're probably right.I don't know as much about others, but I dothink it's probably that's real.Cause if not, peoplewould talk about it more now.Like, you know what I mean?Yeah.Yeah.You know, you know, it makes me, so whendid you become a communicator?Cause you probablyweren't in the beginning, right?When did you, in hismarriage, in his marriage?Yeah.Yeah.Probably.She was a better listener.I talked too much.So I always thought I was a goodcommunicator, Brian, but,but, um, I think we had that.We always loved each other immensely.And we always thought that, you know, youcould always work through things.But again, I think we could have been me inparticular, more intelligent about someof the choices that I made.You know, I was loving life, you know, justdoing things and putting it out there.And at some point, especially when you havea family, you know, you can't come in latefrom the city, you know,I think you've alluded to that.You've got, did you go through that phasewhere your, your wife's home with the kids,you're in the city doing a nice sales job,taking people out, entertainingclients in the best city in the world.Yep.And you're going to Nick's games.Probably there were probablysome hot clubs like studio 54.I don't know.I'm like, was it, so what's the deal there?Like, what was that phase like for you?What were you guys, what were you up to?It was wonderful.And a lot of times she participated, but itwas the eighties nineties and a lot ofbad stuff happened with drugs.Yeah.Yeah.The coke years.Yeah.The coke years.And, you know, I got caught up in it alittle bit and it was tough because youknow, I have an addictive personality.So that, that issomething I look back on it.Not proud of, but you know,it is what it is.It is what it is.But got through it.Thankfully things went good.But point is, you guys,there'd be Friday afternoon.You're on wall street, street closes.They'd run out the bar restaurants andyou'd go down there and I'm on thatrelationship guy, they liked me.They'd have a room in therestaurants, a party room.Yeah.Yeah.Do you remember that kind of, I mean,well, the seaport area, right?That wall streets, the seaportkind of area that parties there.It's a, I used to go in there as a kid.We brought her there andbrought the kids there.We'd get on the seaport.But all those restaurants, all those bars,it's a fun place to be.Yeah.Yeah.I just wish that that was the littledifferent times because you can't callyou know, especially, or even if you'redrinking too much and you got to go backtwo hours, you know, you're not in the,the, the healthiest of environments.And I'm not boo hooing about it, but Imean, those choices, if you look back,I would now go a lot better.And I think that I shared that with mychildren and they made better choices.Back to you talk about my father'sgeneration and mother's great parents.They never told me a thing about it.Yeah.And I would have been the guy that had beengood to tell about it.You know what I mean about, Hey, you know,getting a girl pregnant or the, the, the,the, I never had those discussions.Yeah.I don't, I think that's their generation.There was, it was.And even in your generation, like you guys,I think you talking to your kids aboutthis, that's probably kind of unusual foryour generation because I don't thinkyour generation really talked.Gen X is really the first generation wherewe're like, we're talking about it all.Cause no one talked to us about anything.You know, like ourparents, his parents didn't talk.Well, you had silent generation and boomer.Maybe they both were silent generation.I had boomer in our situation.Our parents talked to us about money, aboutgetting a girl pregnant, aboutanything, menopause, like, you know,anything that's coming up.So we went in blind.So now we're all making it a point.Let's talk.So with our kids, we're like, we're goingto talk about it all, even if it'suncomfortable or even if justso that we're a resource for you.So I think, but I knew you doing that withyou, your kids, I think that was, um,you were progressive for your generation.I think that you did that.Cause I don't think a lot did.I'm glad to hear that because I think a lotof it stemmed out of I don't want themcause I feel so lucky that some things thatcould have gone bad didn't.And sometimes bad thingshappen to very good people.Yeah.So I didn't, you know, if you can limitthat potential possibility, I mean, thinkabout now with the drugs, like thefentanyl, they're talking about, can youimagine these wonderful young kids make onemistake, one mistake.It happens to one of our son's friends.And it was one, youknow, I can't even imagine.And I would, it just, it's beyond me tothink that, cause I can't even tell youhow many mistakes havebeen made by me, my friends.You think you're just smoking a joint, butit's laced with fentanyl.Now all of a sudden you'rephoning at the mouth, dying.That's fucked up.That's crazy.It's a tougher time.So we've talked, I've talked to Dylan aboutyou can't take anything fromanyone because it could have, I sayanything candy, anything you're right.You can't, you know, I mean, theconversations we'vehad with him about that.I never even had with Nathan and Kaya thatI'm having to have with him.It's, it's crazy.Mind blowing.Honestly, the topics you have to covernowadays, and maybe it's, it's alwaysbeen that way in week to your point where ageneration that talks about it,but it's crazy.Our parents didn't talk to us and now we'rethe, the depth we go to it'sto cover everything, but safe, you guys.That's the problem.And you, you know, doesn't mean that it'snot here or where I'm in, but I'm sayingthe, anybody could make that mistake.And now you're paying withyour life and it's just not right.So we have to address this as a society andfix it because that's not fair to them.Even if they made a mistake because we allmade, we've all made mistakes.We could have a space to make mistakes.You should not have it be life.Generally that's the way life used to be.And you know, a safe space tomake those mistakes, I guess.I have a question.So I have to do this sometimes.I have a questionbecause she's ready to roll.In talking to your kids, was that driven byyou and your wife say together or moreher cause ours was definitelydriven more by Nicole, right?She's the better parent.But how would that,what about your dynamics?I guess.Mutual.Yeah.You know, it's interesting.And again, so cool that it happened thisway, but my son and I've been like thisand they can't go, it's just been that way.Still are.Um, my wife and my daughter, best friends,they just had their bachelorette party formy daughter out in Colorado.I saw it at Denver last week and a weekendago and 12 wonderful girls flew into formy daughter and they invited my wife.That's wonderful.So when you have those kindsof, you know, that's the reward.Yeah.I stayed at my son's house and helped withthe two kids and it was the greatest fewdays to see this.So I take that so, Oh, but I think thatcomes from the hard work that you all did.And again, just like yousaid about Nicole, I agree.Sure.She's probably better parent.She's definitely smarter.But you know, I think I might be more funto be honest with you.Yeah.And I think that's the mix, but that Icredit her so much with that because boy,these kids turned outwell, but I did my part.There's no question, but she was in it dayone and they talked to her.Yeah.They talked to her and they allowed thatthey didn't invite us to school.They invite.I'm telling you, my son, I was responsiblefor him staying an extra year atUniversity of central Florida.I loved everything about his college.My wife and I go up, they'd invite us.We'd never put ourselvesfront and center, whatever.But you're in Orlando.Yeah.What a boy.I loved that.I bummed out when he graduated.I swear to God, I canrelate my, I would go up.I'd go up to my son's fratparties for dad's weekend.Oh yeah.So you had a reputation in the frat.The greatest.So you can get thatyou did something right.Doesn't know.Yeah.But, but that, but that'snot, again, it's earned.It's earned from the time.100%.Yeah.And you guys had a partnership.You worked together all those years,raising your children.Yeah.Um, as, as far as becoming a parent, Ialways say that that's an emotion thatyou don't have until that baby's born.And then it's a love you didn't know itexisted and then it changes you forever.And it just changes thewhole trajectory of everything.100%.And it's the greatest thing ever.And the hardest.And the hardest and the hardest because ittakes so much effort and time to do it.Right.I think, but it's so rewarding.You know what?Absolutely.And if you don't, you never know.Yeah.I got good news for you to call.Great news for you.It's better being a grandpa.Everyone says that.It's true.I can't imagine.And it doesn't mean even my kids who weadore and they adore us.You're going to, you're going to, you can'tbelieve that it's thenext generation of you.You see it of them, they see it in you andthey're just like, so dad, this is the wayyou were with me.And it's just, and then you're just like,you'll have the time and energy.You know, you might be alittle older when you're young.As the kids you too.Yeah.Yeah.Oh, but you are gonna, it, from myperspective, and I'm gladto hear that you say otherpeople say maybe it'scause you're not as stressed.You're better off financially.You have some choices.We happen to live near one another, whichis obviously the best.You're probably going to want that.Yeah.You know what I mean?Yeah, absolutely.But I've never, ever, everexperienced anything like this.You know, I cannot wait.I cannot wait.She's so our oldest and hisgirlfriend got a fish together.A beta fish.She wants them to go out oftown so we can babysit the fish.That's how much I can't wait.Oh, we have a storage unit and half of itis filled with toys of my kids that are forour grave.We pay monthly on it.You know what?You probably, you probably, youknow, and I'd love to hear it.Cause by the way, I listened to podcast onewhere you talked about the upbringings andwhat you went through as opposed to whatyou went through,because I would truthfullysay, thank God, because youknow, you never know, right?Doesn't mean your parents weren't good,whatever, but two stable parents, two goodpeople was so wonderful.So for you to make the choices, kudos,because you could also be tainted wherepeople feel they got short change orwhatever the case may be.And you know, you still own your owndestiny, but it's a little bit harder.Yeah.Maybe a lot a bit harder.But I mean, what's better andwhat there's nothing better.And I know what I see it on your face.So I can't wait.I can't wait.Well, he'll, he'll tell you, you know,he'll tell you as soon as we get news.Well, not only that he will be at two.Oh, he will be at two.I can't wait.Oh, he's going to be.Yeah.No, I, I, I, and you know what you guysboth, you complimented me, you complimentedyour wife and I do think that everythingyou said about the mother and the home.I agree.But I do 100% feel that having a father andin a child's life is the game changer fora son and a daughterfor a son and a daughter.It's a game change, whether you're stillmarried to the father or not, the fatherbeing involved with thechildren is a game changer.I think it's important.It has to be right.Yeah.I mean, really does.Although there are some women that aren't,aren't into, you know, yeah, but yeah,that's the base.Yeah.But that father, especially I think withgirls, especially with self-esteem,with, um, believing in themselves withknowing how to pick a partner, having thatfather in their lives is such an aid.They're not trying to fillthat void of not having a father.I would make an argument and I, and I'm notsaying I would win this argument, butI would put up the argument that thefather's more important, but I wouldexpect the mother to counter that with whythe mom's more important.And then you agree to disagree that we'reboth important, butdads are super critical.I think it's a, it's anawesome responsibility.We have to honor and put work into andevolve and all of that.It's critical.I think.Yeah.Can't, I can't disagree, be critical, but Idon't, uh, I would say that.It's going to sound a little odd, but Imean, my mother having a baby anddeveloping inside of themjust as amazing to them.And not that you can't have the sameconnection because I think we do, but Ialso think it's different.And I think the motheris that, and it's both.So we're talking, I'm saying,you can't, but point is, I do.And you think about it, a lot of the issueswe have, you got some strongmothers that thank Godhold together things.And then when you don't have a father, Ithink statistically there's no,you're a hundred percent on point.Yeah.But, um, you both just, I think it worked.You guys, you're going tohave this beautiful child.Let's just make it work.Yeah.Yeah.That's the key.So your, so your son went to UCF.Yeah.Where'd your daughter go?Florida Gulf Coast.Okay.So they were both in Florida and now theyboth live in Florida.Close.So that's wonderful.So it's just, do you justkeep hitting the jackpot?You know what I mean?Pension myself because it's, you know,What more could you want?Um, maybe more grandchildren.Um, because now you're at two, right?And it too.So a boy or a boy, two and ahalf year old, cutest thing you'veever seen in this four month old.And then it's the fourmonth old, a boy or girl.Girl. Oh, Gemma, Gemma.And it's so funny, you know, babies, right?He said you're great.You know, and I happened tobe, I liked the baby stage a lot.Never had a problem with mine.And obviously them, you know, diapers,crunched on batter, but we walk aroundand all I see my wife do she's holding thislittle chunk of mugs and just kissingthe head and I'm sitting there going,that's what you used to do with Alexandra.And it's, I've never seen her happier.Yeah.Again, I take, yeah.Yeah.Yeah.Yeah.So, uh, is your daughter and daughter andLaura, they stay at home?My daughter is not, she's a counselorFlorida golf coast, but my daughter andshe doesn't have a child yet.My daughter, she'sgetting married in January.Okay.Okay.Um, but yeah, my daughter-in-law stoppedworking right before the child.This woman was made to mother.Okay.And do you know anything about, causethey're, uh, are they millennial orGen Z when were they born?Um, 93.And I think she was maybe 95 or 94.Okay.So millennial, there, no, yeah.They're millennials.Yeah.Cause Nathan's the, he's the oldest child.He's the oldest Gen Z and he's 97.You're the expert in the millennials.Okay.So they're millennial parents.So, or not parents, your son is amillennial parent and with your daughterin law, um, have you observed, do you thinktheir communication is way moreinvolved about roles, parenting, um,raising a family than even yourgeneration or our generation.Have you observed any of that?Or gotten that vibe?They interesting because they're reallygood, but they don't put it out there asmuch as I put it out there.They're very different.They're more, my son was much more tohimself growing up aboutrelationships and stuff like that.I think I made him uncomfortable.Even though he was fine with it and ends upbeing good talking about some of thethings that we talked about.I think they must obviously do that.Well, I don't see them doing that outwardlywhen we're around, but I seetwo parents that are joyous.I noticed that this past week, what wasjust me and my kid and sure it's a lotof work, but it's joyful with them.You know, and it had a lot of work.I was Sunday come, I was done.You know, that two and a half year old, oh,it's the cutest, but a lot ofwork, but some juice.They have some juice, but to your point,they seem more, I don't, they're not asoutwardly about it.Um, I think my daughter with my wife isvery good about going deep, but my son'snot his actions speak volumes.Yeah.Yeah.Yeah.But, um, you know, he's probably, they'reprobably, they're more private about,they're more private about it,but they're working as partners.It's obvious thatthey're working in harmony.Yeah.And I feel that they'resupporting one another very well.And you know what, for what it's worth, Ithink he feels the same way, making surethat his wonderful wife has everything sheneeds to be a great mom.Cause that's what's most important to him.That's wonderful.Have you, have you seen, has he, um, doeshe do more domestic stuff than like ourgeneration or your generation is the guy?Cause I feel like millennial men will domore like, um, do dishes, vacuum, dodiapers, like they'll help out more aroundthe house, that generation thanGen X men and boomer men did.Have you observed any of that?Were the, were, were the difference?Like I'm big into that always.Oh, really?You've always helped.Oh, well, yeah.You know, five kids, seven years.Oh, true.We're doing dishes.We had a regiment and Ithink it's very important.There's a lot of talkabout successful people.They've all done chores andthat way forget about the money.You make whatever they've done.Sure.Yeah.Yeah.You have to have some responsibilityfeeling you're part of a team.Yes.That kind of, that's what we've always toldour kids is you're part of thehelping the household run.Yeah.Yeah.So important.I mean, a lot of statistics are coming outafter they look over all these years.Interesting.But she's real good.I mean, it's bedlamright now in a good way.They've got this beautiful 80 poundAnatolian shepherd who used to be the kingof the castle because everybody, you know,and they got the two and a half year oldwho's cutest can be, but oh boy.Yeah.And then this little four month old.So they're a beautiful home.Nice home, but you know what?One more kid.We got to get a new house.It's not big enough.Um, I think she's realgood about keeping that up.I don't know.And he, um, is a partner.My wife's brother never got married.Great guy has a kitchen, bath and cabinetcompany and they're doing a good job.And he's a partner in that firm.So, um, it's nice being an entrepreneur.He's done it now eight, nine, 10 years.Um, my brother-in-laws in his laterfifties, it's, you know, it was going to beAustin's business or that's wonderful.Yeah.It's he with another partner's gentlemanthat that that's their third wonderful,but Austin, so he gets up and out early andworks, but comes home at four o'clockand he's on duty from then.That's wonderful.And then, you know, theweekends, they seem to make it work.They really do.That's great.But I think to answer your question, Idon't think he's doing a lot of thingsaround there.He's, you know, when I wasthere with him, he was pretty good.But I think based on the list that was onthe refrigerator, he had theinstructions on how to do it right.And he properly followed them.Yeah.That's funny.Um, now I was going to, you had mentionedabout, we've talked about your parents,but we haven't discussed, um, were theyaround for your children when they wereborn, like were theygrandparents for your children?Were they were, they happened to live inNaples until they got older.One had Alzheimer's one had a multitude ofmaladies that ended up being dementia.And we moved them up to Virginia wherethere was two sisters that were greatwith them and a brother that lived kind ofclose as opposed to just me down here.But they were able to experience it, butit's different because seeing her, mywife's family, they were all about it.Mm.You know, the big ItalianBernie Panella did well.He was a smart man, had beautiful homes.Life was good.They're calling you.Hey, you want to take Jersey out?We'll take the kids.My parents were burned out.Love the kids.No problem.Did it, but they were burned out.Yeah.So were they more like they would visit andthen, yeah, they were like that.They were like that.And it was cool because they actually livedin this really nice communityfor several years on the same street.And my father and mother and my wife'sstepfather and mother were great friends.Oh, that's awesome.It was again, very nice.Wonderful.It was.And he, my dad had so muchrespect for her stepfather.He was a really smart man.And he would be that guy that you'd want tosit down with him and hey, dad,I'm going to buy a car.Hey dad, how do I finance this?Or I'm putting this guy, he was the rock.But anyway, my dad loved it.And you know, he sold to the military.And then my dad was military.It was a, it was a wild thing.And that was enjoyable because we'd havethese parties and everybody came together.That's lovely.Actually the hands on stuff, like we'regetting the kids as much as possible.And I'm taking them to the golf course,insurance is wheeling around.We're having fun with it.My parents are like, yeah, yeah, not bad.They just wouldn't know.I think there's twoapproaches, two approaches.And, um, and it's interesting to when yousee what your parents, you don'tknow how your parentsare going to react, right?Until you have children andthen you're like, oh, okay.You're, you're like that, you know?And then, so now did herfamily also live in Naples?Oh yeah.Matter of fact, sister that I went tocollege with lived in Naples,lives in Naples and her parents too.Yep.Yep.That's so wonderful.Remember they got them down here.No, I know.But the, um, parents though, their, herparents too also live down here.They move first.Yeah.They were the parents move.Yeah.Okay.Okay.Okay. Correct.Okay.So the pair, oh, Ithought it was just the sister.So the parents moved here.First brother came down.Oh, the brother.Yeah.And then the sister came then.This was, you know, 30 years and 20 someyears ago, because I was the last.And that was 25, whichseems like yesterday.Yeah.That's what happens.We've been here a whileand it's like almost 20.Yeah.It goes so fast.So fast.So when did your parents come down?Um, you know, they were, that was probablylike, um, we've been here 25year, maybe five years after that.They started in Cape coral, bought a coupleproperties, moved down.And that's where they'd all kind ofhappened in Naples wherethey were all together.And did any of yoursiblings also move down?No, they're, they're, they're mainly, uh,either, uh, Richmond, Virginia,outside of Baltimore, um, once in SouthCarolina, it's a little bit dispersednow, but we still seeeach other fair amount.It was, you know, with their parentspassing a couple of years ago, there'sa little bit of a miss now because therewas always a reason to be there, but theconnection is still great.That's wonderful.And with social media and everything too,that helps so much, you know, keep intouch and keep in contact.When does your parents, um, whocame down with dementia first?My father.And how old was he?Late seventies.That's early.It feels early.And it was a rough 10 years.He had it for 10 years.He lived till late eighties.Yeah.And when, what about your mom?She had it later than him, but she had allthese issues, broken backs.She, she unfortunately, such a wonderfulwoman fell into just started with backand then multiplesurgeries in the medicine impacts.And then, you know, so just turned intomore and then eventually dementia.But my dad, we hadreally good medical care.So he was on a couple of the medicines, airaccept, and I forget the other one.Early.So it wasn't like he wasn't cognitive.He was, but he wasn't, he got quiet becausehe wouldn't remember what he wassaying in sentences and hedidn't want to feel like that guy.So he got quiet, but he'dalways remember you and so forth.And he was this guy, like I said, he knewit with his, the wife from theget my mother from the get go, he died.Three months to the day after she died.And you know, he had no reason to be, Imean, physically he was still okay,but you lose that will to live.Where were they married?Do you know?Yeah, they were married in 1959.So yeah.So that had to be, what is that?41 years today.It's a 60 something late six, 60.Yeah.And I think they had areally good relationship.I really do.Did you, did, um, you guys use the servicesdown in South Florida thenfor him when he had dementia, right?Yeah.We were able to fortunate that financiallywe could afford a concierge doctorwho happens to be a friend who happened tobe brilliant, to be quite honest with you.Um, and he, he took care of his care untilit got to the point that a lot of it here,I was still working, still having kids andmy parents had a large house and I'dget calls all the time, certain thingsneeded to be maintained.And of course you want to help them out,but it got to be a lot.My mom was constantly going into eitherhospitals or rehab centers.And interesting point.Cause my wife, God blessher said, JD, you've changed.You're taking this too much.You're being short with your family.Something's got to give it a Webex callwith the four brothers and sisters.They took over in a like wonderful brothersand sisters would, and you know, soldtheir house, moved them up there.The two girls girls would take care of you.Yeah.Care of that.Not that the boys won't, but guess what?I'll take my two sisters.Yeah.Managed about care.I was going to take, I'll takemy daughter managing my care.Keep your daughter close.But yeah, so that was tough to see that,but thank God they had great care.That's good.A lot of love, but God, it's hard.You can't describe tosomeone how torturous that is.Torturous.Good work.Until they've gone through it.You've gone through it.Um, and, and just, it'slike a double death, right?Cause you're losing them and in real timewatching it and then you lose them.Yeah.Um, it's hard for me to say, especiallywith my dad, cause he's the one whotaught my mom was big supportive, but thisfaith thing has changed my life inso many good ways and doesn't matter whatfaith you have turned out to be theperson that what my father tried to do withus or did with us and a lot of itwas spirituality, butit was more your actions.Uh, that's all, you know,that's, that's what I care about.And that's what.Yeah.So when did you, your EucharistEucharistic minister, correct?Correct.When did you start on that journey?Um, directly tied to my parents.Um, it was really important that they getthe body of Christ in their variousfacilities, they were graduated.So they started and you know where it was,you could still live in your samething and then it moved up to you couldlive in the same thing, but you had tohave help and then they hadto, you know, that kind of thing.And, um, these wonderful people would comeinto the facilities and they'd give thebody of Christ to my dad or my mom, or evenbefore it got too bad, they'd havethis beautiful group that would just joinin the little, little room that they hadthere and all the people that were goingthrough the same things.They'd have a little reading and it was,was maybe a song or two or whatever.And that meant a lot.So when, when I saw that and got to talk tohim, it was kind of moving.And then you, you know, as a Catholic, youbelieve that is the body of Christ.And I do.And to see that miracle happen at thatpoint, I felt that that's somethingthat I wanted to do, um, for, for boththose reasons, it's probably the mostrewarding, but it's, it'salso a little bit challenging.Did you, did you do it for them or that wasjust your motivation after that to,to be able to do that for others?Like he means literally, did you give themthe Eucharist yourself?My parents?No, it was no, no, thanks for clarifying.No, I didn't.That would have been great.That would have been great.But, um, it's the greatest, it's probablythe greatest thing, but it's also just alittle bit, you know, you,you're seeing what's happening.And as you're on that road, when it goesdown there, there's some great discussionsyou have, but it's also just to get anolder process and it being, you know, youtry to avoid it as much as you can.Yeah.But now I'm right in the middle of that andyou meet some good people and havelost, and it's, uh, it's a, it's a littlechallenging, but probably one of the mostwonderful things I've done.It's a commitment.You know, my Sundays are definitely not,you know, what do you do?Are you going to hospitals andno, I, what I do is I actually go tovarious people's homes.Okay.Either generally can't make it to church.So the church has a program that you willcome and you will, you know, do a readingfor them or talk to them.It doesn't have to bethis big grandiose thing.Yeah.But the reality is you tell them what'shappening, the message from that Sunday,and then you give them the body of Christ.That's wild.It is.It's a, it's probably, youknow, we've done a lot of things.My wife and I, she's got a good heart.We've done a lot of things on the outside.This is probably one of the more rewardingin terms of the connection is one, youknow, I'm sitting there driving around andI'm like, this is unbelievable, man.I've always taken it and I get it, but I'mlike, you know what, man, I could, theguy that I'm giving this to or the womanI'm giving this to, this is the body ofChrist, man.So yeah.So when you leave, are you leaving, um,energized and ready for the day and youfeel good, or do you leave kind of likemaybe not necessarily with the heavyheart, but like a real reflective mind oflike, wow, that was pretty heavy.And you know what I mean?There's a difference there.One's like, let's go take on the day.That was amazing.The other is that was amazing.Wow.I need to kind of gather my thoughts.Love the question.Cause I now actually think of that becauseone always believed, always believe, butyou know, there's nobody Ilove more than Jesus Christ.There's nobody, you know, and as much as Ilove my wife and kids, it's hard to even,but it has brought me that much closer to,I believe as you know, the savior andit's the greatestthing, the greatest thing.And it's the thing that makes most sense inthe world that to me sometimes makesme a little bit down.You know what I mean?Yeah.And being able to have that closeness tothat has been super rewarding.Um, the greatest I've met some, some goodpeople and I like it.Selfishly sometimes I sitthere and go, it's Sunday.I'm limited.Yeah.Uh, it makes me feel bad that I feel thatway, but we're all sinners.Exactly.And I don't really bad.Um, but I do feel good cause I know it'ssuper important to them.And again, I'm sitting there driving withthe pics they're called and it is thebody of Christ and I took that not forgranted cause I've always respected andcherished that, but at the same time I'mdriving around and I'm giving that tosomebody to experience thatis, is, is a beautiful thing.And that's why I think priests and serversand deacons feel this thing.Cause there's, sure, especially prieststhink what you got to give up and a lotof things, but I think that that isprobably what's a big thing about it.Think about what they're doing, buryingpeople and counseling people that havehad tragedies.So anyway, great question.I don't know if I leave energized, I leavefeeling closer to Christ and that moreimportant to me than anything.It's almost like you become a Brinks truck.It's that valuable.It's more valuable than, you know, theBrinks trucks that have the money, butyou're, yeah, you're, you're, it's morevaluable than what's in a Brinks truck.You know, it's the body of Christ.A hundred percent.It's like, you know, you can't, you have tobe careful with that.There's certain things around it.You can't keep it overnight.Now, if you drop it or there's all there,it's the body of Christ and there isthere, there's history behind it, but yetyou're a hundred percent right.And that feels, itfeels really, really good.It's an awesome responsibility.It really is.But I mean, it's amazing that, that you'redoing that and giving it's suchan incredible gift you're giving to people.And I'm sure it does bring you so muchcloser to your own faith.It does.And that makes me super happy because Ialways believed and always tried to payforward, but the reality of it is I wantthat closer because that's goodness.And sometimes like, you know, I like, I'vehad to take myself off certainapplications, social media platforms,because I'm getting drawn into policechases or fights and Iunderstand it's like healthy.No, no, you have to be careful where youcan assume mentally and spiritually.For sure.100%.Have you been there when people havepassed, you give less rights?No, no, no.That's just the priest, right?That's correct.That's a sacrament, right?I had just a quickie cause this will comefull circle and it's just amazing to me.I had a gentleman in my neighborhood whosewife I know cause we did the HOA inour neighborhood togetherand she was real nice lady.And when she heard that I became aEucharistic minister, she's like, Hey, doyou mind being, take care of my husband?Who's a nice guy.He had some heart problems like 80.So I got to know him through her and youknow, we knew he wasn't in greatshape, but you know,he's 80 and he got around.Well, anyway, I come or acall to say, Hey, I'm on my way.She goes, don't come.He passed away and I'mlike, Oh, I'm so sorry.I didn't know, but you know, whatever.And she goes, I gotta tell you something.And I'm like, what?She goes, Jadie, his name was Maurice.Her name's Alicia.She said, he's in bed and he calls me andhe goes, honey, lay down.And hold their hands.And she, he died holding her hand and theywere kind of like what we weretalking about, you feel about your wife orwhatever he knew it was coming.Wow.And he said, hold my hand.And I, it's almost hard to believe, butthis, this, I know this woman.Um, and yeah, so, so to be able to befeeling things like that.And I know they were good, a Cuban peoplethat were successful, great grandparents,but the net of it is, and I'm sure they hadbumps in the road, but that love andthat, that, that bond through their faith.God knows it's coming.Hold my hand.Yeah.What a trust me away.That's amazing.That's amazing.True story.So it's, you're right.It's amazing.That's, that's what, what I would want.I would want that.If I had to pick, we wouldgo at the exactly same time.Wonderful.You guys have such good energy.A hundred years old, our kids are fine.Everything's good.Okay.We're done.I'm not dying.So if I'm Catholic, just, you know, so, um,in a pinch, if it was like themiddle of the desert, could you give lastrights or can you can't, you can't, youcan offer comfort, but youcannot do the performance.What is the, I was a race Catholic.I I'm, I'm not at this point.Um, what is the significance of the lastrights in, in that context?I'll let you know that ithas to be done by a priest.Well, I mean, you know, you're being, it'sa sacrament you're passing on, butyou know, you're forgiven,you know, that kind of a thing.Honestly, I wish I knew more, but, um,it's, it's part of the process and you'reat you're, you're, you're with a holyperson as you are passing on.Yeah.And it's a beautiful thing.And again, I think if there's any thing youwant to say or anything youask, even carrying with you or any, ohyeah, almost like a, not a lastconfessional, but if you'recaught, I guess you're not right.You're not lucid at that point.Well, you could be, it's a good point.Honestly, I'm not aware enough, but yeah, Iwant to even find out.Cause the great thing about this journeytoo is I've learned so much more and I'venever made the time.I love the stories.I love the history.Oh, if you take the time to really learnabout, it's fascinating.It's really fascinating.But like the sacraments like baptism,communion, reconciliation, confession,marriage, um, last rights, confirmation.You got them all.Yeah.Yeah.That's it.Right.Last rights is one of those, right?Okay.It's on that level.It's on that level.Yeah.Okay.Yeah, exactly.So I think that's, I've thought about thatwhen I've been at church.I've thought maybe inmy future, I'll do that.The Eucharistic is probably one of thebetter things I've ever done.One connection to my parents.How about that?Yeah.But more importantly, Oh my God, I loveeverything about what this guy did andstands for, and I hope we, no matter whatfate, no matter what color, let's just,let's do what this guy wastalking about and love it on man.And, and, and, and, and, you know, in ourtime in place, and don't you think you'redoing, we've talked about family.That's what you've done to yours.That's what I've tried to do to mine.I've always told Brian, cause he's not apracticing Catholic, but I'm like, you'remore Catholic than a lot of Catholicsbecause by his actions, he's lived theCatholic, but that's my,that's sort of the rub for me.That's my problem.Well, he has his own.I know I am, but I, it's, you know, he, youknow, it does take effort and there'ssomething to say about that, but at thesame time, that's not what matters.It matters your actions and who you are.Cause you know, this is why I'm saying allthis faith fighting and race stuff.I get that it's part of life, but when youpeel that back, you know, you have togo to church to do that, or you don't haveto do what kind of where I fall on it.Yeah.Yeah.But, but I mean, you mightfeel better making the efforts.I know I always feel closer to Jesus whenI'm doing those things.You know what I mean?I've got a wife that if there's a hurricaneor a flood or something, she'son the phone getting stuff together.And then you go do something and I go, God,I feel so good about what we're doing,but closer to you.And at the same time you helpin somebody, how do you feel?I don't think there's much better.So the only reason I'm saying that Brian,that does take some effort.Good.Well, I do think I know that, um, you know,between Naples and here, there's alarge, uh, native American reservation, theMicah Sukey tribe is out there, Ithink. Um, and I think you've told me howyou've done some volunteer work there.Right.Have you done like thekitchen or soup type of thing?Tell her about that.Cause I remember you telling me about that.It's like, wow, that's really cool.But I remember you also sayingit's kind of heavy cause it's,Oh God.Yeah.It's a mockly.So it's not, so there is a casino now andmock a mockily, but you know what Imean, but it's in the city of a mockly.Have you guys ever been to a meeting?Oh yeah.That's where a lot of it's.I've been in the area,but we've hiked down there.I've gone to like Everglade city.I've done the whole, that whole area.Okay.Um, we've come in from, what is it?41, uh, between Nate,you know, the old high.Well, if you were on alligator alley guyscoming to that area, it's exit eight.Okay.And you go five miles.What is that?I think it's north, right?Is that, well, north or definitely west.Not, not, not, uh, youknow, no, it's in east.Anyway, the point of it is, it is a, wherea lot of the migrants, um, are, are, arepicking in the field.So it's a lot of that.And you know, because the casinos there,there's all those issues with that,but it's very poor.It's very poor.So it was a church related thing.It's called the Guadalupe center.And they're wonderful withtheir outreach and so forth.So interestingly enough, that's one of thethings I was able to do with my dadearly on before he started getting sick.So it was, it was, you know, doing it withyour family was really cool.Another way you can feel closer, butfeeding is always such a good thing.You know, and you also run into a lot ofthese businesses that supportedthis Guadalupe center, you know, like apublic, you know, you don't know if youknow what's behind thescenes, but they're pretty good.They're pretty good, man.And I appreciate when that truck rolls inand it says it's not expired,but they're not selling anymore.Someone's eating it.So anyway, I really liked that side of it.So that's what it was.It was a mockly andthere's a lot of needs there.It's a, it's a rough andtough kind of situation.We have a place here called Boca helpinghands and public there for the,it's for the homeless andpeople who are in need of food.Publix delivers so much there.It's amazing.Like I seem to do it right.That founder.Yeah.Yeah.Yeah.No, it's great.Maybe they've become part of the community.They are part of the world.Supporting part of the Florida community.They hire a lot of different kind of folks,you know what I mean?Some with special needs.I like that.And hopefully it's a, it's good, but Imean, yeah, no, it's a good company.So as your, um, oh, I was going to ask, yousaid that your wife went back towork after your kids, what did she do?She was bookkeeper for thekitchen, bath and cabinet company.Okay.Perfect.And then surprisingly enough,guess when she stopped working?Grandchildren.Yeah.It's a great excuse.I love it.I love it.I love it.Yeah.And again, never happier.That's wonderful.And then your daughter'sgetting married in January.Right.Um, and will they stay hereor to where you live in Naples?They live in Fort Myers,about 30 minutes away from us.Um, she lives, it's pretty close to thatFlorida golf coast where she's at.And that's cool.Cause if you go up there,it's a pretty vibrant campus.Oh, it's amazing.We toured it.I love it.Well, that was back with, um, Nathan.So that was like years ago.We're going to be touringit this year with Dylan.Trying to get him to go there.Well, hey, by the way, let me know.Cause my daughter will get you set up.Oh, perfect.Counselor.And what's so funny is so she went there,but went there early, got out of highschool after three years.You know what I mean?And then went there to whatever and joineda sorority changed her life.All good.Now she's counseling there.It's like, that's wonderful.And I've seen the collegego to your point, Brian.It's well-funded.Yeah. You've got to tell you,it's they're building.Yeah.Um, safe.It's safe.Yeah.Yeah.So every experience I take the little guythere to we've had lunch or drop, youknow, combined see, uh, anti-ally atFlorida golf coach with the two year old,which of course she loves, but I mean,everything feels really good at Floridagolf coast, so it's anice option for you guys.No, we're going to definitely, he knowswe're going to go, um, check it out.So your daughter graduated a year early.She did.She went through some tough times in highschool, a little bit ofbullying.Yeah.Was tough.Another reason why, and it was up, we sentthem to this nice private school.Yeah.Um, some of it may have been self-inflictedto be honest with you.You know how you interact with you,whatever, but, and I don't mean to makejudgment because everything ends up workingout or at least it did in thisregard, but she just had atough run, um, the last year or so.And it just so happened that Florida golfcoast had this program had nothing to dowith, with that inparticular, but she's smart girl.She writes well, she's creative.And it was this type of thing that theymade available that, that I don'tknow if it was, she went freeor we had to pay a certain part.I don't remember, but all I know is thetiming couldn't have been better.And she loved it.Ended up being a, uh,what do they call them?The fraternity, one of the girls that helpsthe, the, the, the sorority members,you know, coast, the partiesand all those kinds of things.So she got to, she got to do that.Then she was in a sorority, a lot of the,her friends from there.So it was a great experience.I'm happy that that worked out.That's wonderful because now, I mean, ourdaughter also went throughsome stuff like that, just, I think whengirl, when there's mean girls involved,it's vicious and it can be so, it's, youknow, that by the way.Oh yeah.Yeah.Um, it, it, it's, it's, it's a, I call itquiet bullying when girls bully becausewhen boys bully, it's more obvious, butwith girls, it's more, um, behind thescenes of indicative stuff, but it can be,um, it can cause depression.It can be horrible.So, well, I think, yeah, and you have to, Ialways tell parents of daughters, youneed to watch out for that because therecan be things going on.You don't even realize.And then all, and that's where thecommunication comes in with your kids.And that's where it'slike, you need to talk to me.You need to tell me what's going on.And so, um, I'm glad that works out becausegirls will just drop friends.They'll be like, I'mnot your friend anymore.That's hurtful, especially some of themare, you know, they go camp together foryears.Yeah.But she's again, my daughter handled it.It came out real well.That's wonderful.It really, really is testament to, cause Ithink my wife, I know my wife had a lot.Yeah.Well, you know what I'm saying?I was more like, Oh, bea phase and it will pass.Still try to be a good dad,but she talked to my wife.That's the key.Back to the point.That's the most important.Yeah.That is.I'm like, I go to my wife.So why, you know, especially with my son,you know, sports and all that, and we'reall getting along really well, but I'mlike, I don't, why is this alley?You're, you're definitelythe favorite in my life.I always try to be that guy.She's like, Jady, man,start taking her to lunch.Yeah.So I'm doing these things that you do.And you know, sure enough, I did it and ourrelationship turned into the, I, Icouldn't want anybody different than herfor a daughter, but it's funny.My wife goes, dude, what is your problem?In a good way.You're good dad, but you're not making theeffort that you should have.Or cause you're sitting here, come to me.Why aren't I closer to.So lesson learned.So that goes back to my question.When did that happen for you?When did you, that epiphany happen whereyou're like, all right, I got areally, was that mywife told me two years ago.Okay.10 years ago.Yeah.Maybe probably 10 plus years ago.Okay.And we got along.Wasn't like there's a bad thing, but Imean, I don't think I was near ashelpful as my wife was, um, I tried, youknow, again, we had good family stuff,but she was going through atough time and my wife managed it.And I didn't realize the degree of which,and I probably could have been morehelpful to be quite frank with you.You just summed up our, my life, our life,that relationship, because they're waymore, she's the one who's guided that.And it's like, you reallyneed to put in a little time.And man, that's a valid point because I'mlike, no one's ever told me that I'malways the guy, whatever,but I avoided that kind of.Conflict for one, neverdealt with it personally.If anything, I was always trying to hangout with buddies and you might have abump here and there,but I don't remember it.And I don't rememberthat at all with my son.To your point, Nicole, Ithink there were some mean girls.Yeah.Oh, usually there is.That's usually what it is.Yeah.And a lot, usuallythat stems from jealousy.It's usually, that's what,that's typically what it is.If you go back to the rootof it, someone was jealous.And so someone decided todestroy your daughter's life.That's pretty much how it is.It follows on kind of.Yes.It's like Lord of theFlies, but girl version.Yeah.And it's horrible.It's horrible.That yeah, it's very common.It happens in middle schooland high school for girls.And it's very, and then unfortunately, someof these mean girls grow up to bemean women and so you, but then by then youcan handle them, but you, I canspot them a mile away.You just know, likekeep them at arm's length.Cause they're just like an energy thing.Or for me, I can read now.Like, yeah, you just, youcan tell just the way they are.And I'm sure your wifecould also totally spot.You're like, okay, I'm notgoing to be good friends with her.She'll say, and my outercircle as a woman, you just know.And it's unfortunatethat they have children.And then they race mean girls.I would be very upset.I get it.Cause God, you know, make the steak, Bob.Uh, I wouldn't, my daughter was a bully.I mean, how does that, I'm not going tolet, I would be front and center of that.You can't do that.But you're, that's the point.You're not a bully.You're not raising a bully, but there'sadults that grow up and they don't change.And they say, generally that's it.That you think that the mother was probablythe parent, the mother or theparents, um, are, were probably bullies andhave not changed their ways, havenot grown as people and are just havinglittle people like them, like theythink it's fine.They don't correct.They're like, yeah, that's fine.They don't correct.Or they're insecure or they're jealous.There's parents who arejealous of other kids.You know what I mean?Like their kid, their, those kids might bedoing better at something than my kid.They're jealous.It's just, it's a horrible thing.Talk about faith.Like you were at the Nick game.All this was happening.No, but those daughterdaddy dates, I call them.Um, there's been times where I'm like, youneed to take her on adaughter, daughter, daddy date.It's time.And they go to lunch or they go to dinneror they go do something.And it's such a game changer.I will say this Nicole.And again, I've only met your daughter theone time at that F one, but they,that's, yeah.And she's doll.Thank you.She's a sweetheart.Well, you know, I'm from that school.Nice to meet you.And you're looking me in the eye and where,where, you know what I mean?I'm not trying to, yeah, I'm going to puttoo much into it, but I, you know,Oh really?And you know, you're, you're, you'regenerally going to talk to me and not just,you know, no, she's a very authentic woman.Young.I call her a woman.I saw a girl, but she's very authentic andvery genuine and very kind.Yeah.There you go.Yeah.So she really, really is a good person.Yeah.You know, one of the first things she saidwhen she knew you were coming, shegoes, make sure and thankhim again for the F1 tickets.I'll tell him how much I love it now.And I said, I will.I promise you did mention.And again, I'll get you one of those daysbecause to see that that much fun.And that is that's become such an event.The only problem is Brian hot, right?And it gets packed.So you got to figure outtiming and things like that.And you'll have a better experience.Now we know what to do.Well, and where to park dialed in.Yeah.Yeah.You get what I mean?Cause then there's you'll have, my secondyear was a lot better than my first, eventhe first was great, but yeah, we'veliterally watched every race since then.The two of us watch every race.I recorded now, actually.Yeah.So before I asked my last question, do youhave any other questions?I always have to ask him because I askedhim and he goes, I had a question.I don't think so.I think we've covered some ground here.You know, you got everything.I think so.Okay.I think so.My last question is always, where do yousee yourself in five years?I would guess I had to guessretirement, but I don't know.So where do you see yourself in five years?Definitely retired.Okay.You know, and again, I enjoy, I have such agood working relationship.If there was someconsulting, just to stay busy, fine.But, um, we love theworking out type of thing.My wife and I have really bonded that muchcloser because we both love tospend and love yoga, so we'll do classestogether and it's enjoyable.Cause you know, you're, you're doing thosethings and then, you know, youmeet the people there and like, they'retheir hunts, you know?So I know that we'll be doing a lot of thattogether, which is good.Cause we enjoy it and it's the healthy.I'm sure there's going toprobably be some more travel.Um, more time spent trying todo the right thing for others.I know that's a big part of it.So I think we'll be busy.I'll be doing a lot of golf.There's no question.Hopefully with JD junior.Know what I mean?And now he has those trainings.He might be better than you.Oh, I hope God, I pray.So I pray so, but probably in a really goodplace, probably still here.We always thought about having a secondhome and we're kind of planning on thatat some point and you never know, but withAirbnb's and you could getmonth here and there, my wife's not leavingthe children and there's no way.And not yet.I don't want to either, but I'm stillsaying my dream is seasons.I still can't get over missing.See Brian.I wanted to answer your question before Ihave one for you, but that was how I seemyself retired and happy as can be.And good friends and good family and justhopefully trying to stay healthy.And maybe more grandchildren.That would be the, don'tmess up that wedding ceremony.Cause that leads tothe grandchildren, right?A lot of responsibility.You know, what's interesting too.My daughter, she'll make agreat mother, my opinion.Cause you know, shewill, um, she's ready now.That's wonderful.Yeah.And you know, she's,she's 30 years old now.So yeah, she's just turning 30 years old.That's great.She's from 30.So yeah, but, but I could see thathappening and he's there.He's done well.He's smart kids.Got a good job.So I could see that happening, but yeah,that would be awesome.That's wonderful.That's a, you're so blessed.I really am.And I, and you know, andI'm appreciative of that.Um, yeah.Yeah.No, it's wonderful.Now you said you had a question for us.You, cause I was talking to Brian aboutthis, especially now, knowing like thatNorthern New Jersey thing that you live.And I lived as idyllic, but I can rememberfall and smelling fireplaces.You know what I mean?I can remember a snow days.Yep.A hundred percent.And that was a lot more Northeast.Right.And you know, I moved down here and notthat that love, but move down here.Love Florida.Pretty hot.You know what I mean?And a lot of the sameand a lot of that's good.And you had mentioned, oh,you can play sports year round.I was doing that in the summer now.But anyway, I always alwaysthought of that second home.And then I go, Brian was telling me thatyou grew up in the West and the PacificNorthwest, you know, having worked forCisco for all these years, you know,it's a lot of years as God's country.Right.Yes.So I had family lived outin Colorado, then California.Why would you leave?Well, I mean, I, I loved Oregon.Um, where I grew up in Beaverton outside ofPortland, I loved growing up there.Um, we met in college inAshland, Oregon, Oregon.So are you guys okay?Yeah.Okay.Yeah.He came from Jersey toOregon to go to college.Um, so that's where we met.And Ashton, Oregon is this quaint littleShakespearean festival town artsy hippie.You got to go there.Magical.If you're ever near Ashton, it's 20 milesnorth of the California border.So if you're in theredwoods area, it's amazing.It's nice.There's vineyards are out there.It's gorgeous out there now.If you want to be, but the wholething, but the, it's beautiful.It's like she's saying it's 15, 20 milesnorth of California, uh, border right onI five, there are littleShakespeare's festival there.Wonderful park downtown area.It's it's great.Growing up in Oregon, you know, the thingis when you grew up somewhere like Oregon,you almost don't realize howbeautiful it is until you leave.And then you're like, wow, majestic, right?Like you see a redwoodtree, you're changed.Yeah.Well, that's Northern California, but evenin Oregon, it's just Douglasfurs and green, it's green, green, green.The one thing I will say is it's a verygray cause it rains about nine monthsout of the year or so, likeeight months out of the year.That's key then.I didn't know.I didn't know maybe eight months out there.I'm going to Oregoniansay that's not right.Uh, it rains a lot.I didn't realize that I lived in gray.You don't know youlive in gray and see Lee.And then I moved to New Jersey with Briancause we had Nathan in Oregon, but thenwe didn't want to raise him in Portland.Understood.It was starting to turn into a little bittoo much of a drug culture town, whichI'm sure you've seen what'shappened to Portland sense.Um, and where he's from Sparta is kind oflike where you lived in Randolph,this quaint little Lake community, supersafe, just ideal, like all that.So we moved out to NewJersey to raise children.When I moved is when I realized, Oh, I wasliving in gray cause in New Jersey,even when it's cold in the winter, it stillcould be a blue sky out.Like I didn't realize how muchI needed a blue sky or I neededmore sun.So, um, I love Oregon.I will always love the Pacific Northwest,but I don't think I could live in the grayagain.So that's what it is in gray.Cause you think that beautiful nature.It's gorgeous.And then one of the reasons it's so greenand so lush is cause it rains so muchand it, and the air is clean and all that.Um, and that's justwhat it's like up there.It's just, it's like Seattle.It's very rainy.Um, it's gorgeous.I love it, but I just,I couldn't do it again.Cause you do get seasonsthere, but it's still gray seasons.It does snowsometimes, but it's still gray.Like it is cool to like, if you're drivingin downtown Portland, I think it'shigh five, you come around the corner andright there's Mount Hood in the distanceand it's snow covered year round.So that's amazing.I don't know if you can still see St.Helens or not.I know it's erupted againand may have shrunk, but St.Helens is out there.Yeah.You know, so as you're driving around,there's these inactive volcanoes,basically, but they're really cool.I'd be on the freeway just driving andthere's the mountain.It's like, it was justlike, yeah, that's right.That's where it is.But yeah, the different things, but youjust said it cause I couldn't do thateither, and you know what resonates becausespending time in England, it's gray.Yeah.Very much like that.It's a lot, but you're a hundred percent.Okay.It's very much like that, you know, andagain, and I think there's a lot ofseasonal depression, not just in Oregon orWashington, but anywhere like that.Um, I just, I couldn't, but you know,what's funny, you said about seasons.I miss seasons too.I do, but I do feel the seasons in Florida.No, I do.I feel when the break comes in the fall.Um, and then of course winter.We, that I feel, I don't know about thebreak in the fall much.You know, I did when we moved here.Yeah.But you know, different strokes.I do love andappreciate the sun and all that.And you do not get me wrong, but you know,in your mind, you're like, I'mgoing to go be in the woods and NorthwestOregon or Washington state.And now they say BritishVancouver is the most big.I just want what you don't have.Yes.But I'm not going anywherewithout, you know, the reality iseverything's a plane ride away.Yeah.I, it's great to go on like aweek or two vacation out there.Airbnb, be it with the whole crew,everything you would want.You can get without living there.You can go have that experience, but youdon't have to live in it.You can get it in North Carolina.I think you were in North Carolina with asummer ride or South Carolina.Well, wherever you were,I drilled into that city.You were in, what's really cool.Greenville.Yeah.Greenville.Yeah.Yeah.Um, I need, I want moreNorth just because I want cooler.Yeah.Yeah.But again, uh, you know, I, who wants blackice and all that kind of stuff.But I just laugh how therewas four distinct seasons.And maybe it was my youth too, at that agewhere everything was looking good.But God, Brian, I enjoyed that so much.You knew spring, you knew summer, you knewfall, you knew winter.Yeah.And I love the differentclothes people are wearing.Yeah.I miss that.I miss the different,like I wear all the things.In January here, I'm like, where am I?I wear everything or January, February.Yeah.And I see other people doing it too, but,um, you know, but in New Jersey,at least you'd be in winter was like sixmonths or five months.Like you'd be dealing inthe kids were inside so much.I found it as a kid.I have such fond memories, all wonderfulwhen it would snow getting the day.What it would mean to come out in thespring when it's like 60 degrees andyou're in shorts, cause it's not 30.Right.In the seasons.But as a parent, as a dad, I hated itbecause if it snows, I'm dealing with,I'm the one dealing with the sidewalks, thedriveway, and then it melts.And then it freezes again.Now I'm dealing withice from a safety issue.You know, so it's fair.Cause I haven't, well, I take that back.I lived in New York with the kids.Long Island.Yeah.But then the raking, he, I remember in thefall, he'd be raking almost everyweekend, like blowing the leaves.Um, it was, we had time.We lived kind of back into the woods.We had a cool place thatour backyard was the woods.And that was cool.But he did spend a lot ofthe fall just blowing leaves.So he, he enjoyed he, and plus when wemoved here, he enjoyed the break fromnot doing it.And it was fun.I don't mind doing leaves.Honestly, I'm all, I'm okay with it becausewe'd be out there with thekids and they'd be rolling in it.But now in New Jersey, they have ticksticks and Lyme disease.So it's not like you'relike, don't roll in it.Don't have fun.Yeah.Don't you can catch.Yeah.So in conclusion, we've all lived rightabout perfect timing where therewasn't, you know, Iremember ticks when I was there.Yeah.It's a big thing.Like, yeah, you got it.Cause the deer, I've heard of it hugely.And I think I've even come across a coupleof people have been dead.You know, they're hurt because of it.Yeah.My mom got limes when she was up there.It was terrible.She did.It's amazing how muchshe recovered, but yeah.So we're like you,we're not leaving the kids.If the kids go to Oregon, I'm going Oregon.She's, she's in that mode.I'm like, I'm not leaving floor.I would go.I actually would go to, Ihave my eye on like Chattanooga.Maybe that Ashville area.Turn me on to the Chattanooga.It was nice.I love it.Chattanooga is cool.Yeah.Very cool town.Very cool.Give a shout out to what is it?11 that was, I'm like, crew distilleryright in Chattanooga.I went there.Did you remember you told me to go thereand then there was the hotel.I stayed at when thatriver was right there.I forget.Oh, you stayed at the same hotel.The Marriott.It's kind of like a book.Yeah.Yeah.Yeah.Yeah.Yeah.Oh my God.Great.And you walk across that bridge, rightacross the Tennessee river, I think.Yeah.But 11 whiskey at some ofthe best whiskey I've ever had.If anyone's around Chattanooga, go thereto, it's by the train.Right.Yeah.Chattanooga.Choo choo.Hey Nicole, I'll end on this ifyou want to end, which is great.Cause this was fun, but part of theChattanooga, I love that, you know,the whole Desmond Doss story.No, he's that, um, the soldier thatwouldn't carry a gun.Oh my God.It's the most amazing story.Uh, guy's name is Desmond Doss.And he is this, it was a, I think I forgetthe name of the movieHacksaw Ridge or whatever,but you told me about this.Yeah.But you got to watch the movie becauseanyway, he just became, he, peoplewere against me, wouldn't carry a gun.Anyway, he ended up being like one of thebravest guys ever saved like 72lives under fire, just crazy story.Anyway, I would telleverybody, this is my hero.This is my hero.So sure enough, that's where he's buried.So when Brian said, check out Chattanooga,that's where this gentleman's buried.And I went and saw his grave and it was, itjust made the, cause I'm like, that'swho you want to be a guy that's gentle, butit's a hero and then they had,Oh my God, it was moving.That's amazing.Yeah.Oh, I was meant to ask you,did you go to your, um, lacrossecoaches grave in Arlington?Um, I did.I haven't been there since they buriedthem, but it was the one of the most.Oh, you went to the service.Oh God.You guys have never forget it.Horse drawn carrots.Oh, no kidding fly over.He was good.He was like, I said, you guys, he.Imagine just, I mean, you know, a manly manthing I never experienced war.Thank God.But at the same time, he'sheroes that put it out on the line.This guy bought Germans and planes andfought Japanese and planes.And, you know, just, you needto challenge yourself as a man.Yeah.So we have no clue.No clue.No clue.Yeah.I, and I'll be the first to admit I wouldnever be a cop and I would never, I couldnever sign up for, for anarmed service or thing like that.I'm, I'm a guy's guy, but I'm not a guy, aman's man or whatever, right?Whatever that difference is.I don't know what it is, but these guysthat, that have gone the war.Flown over and, youknow, in planes, that's.Hero.They're heroes.They give us, they gave us the life work.We're sitting here having a podcast.Thank you.Yeah, exactly.Yeah.Yeah.Absolutely.100%, 100%.And that's, you need to watch that movieand you get a chance.It's, it's, I mean, he's world famous.I mean, and it's just real cause at the endof the movie, they interview peoplethat, and they tell the real thing, like,you know, cause he got just abused.Everybody didn't want to be with himbecause he wouldn't carry a gun.Wow.Yeah.Interesting.Yeah. We'll have to check it out.Yeah.Check it out.We'll have to watch that.So that's a good note to end.Oh, before you end it,I'll just say thank you.Really appreciate.Oh, absolutely.That's part of my.Yes.You don't go and you have a nice succinctending and wrap up, but I just,thank you so much.Awesome.Just yes.Really cool.Yeah.Really cool.Nicole, you know, I, I know your husbandand you know, we've, we've, it's, it'sbeen fun, it's been, it's been good.Cause you know, like you said, you talkabout business and you want to do the rightthing.I just like that.Yeah.When you get, when you have to go throughthat and you're with people that are goodpeople that are fair people and you know,it's wild to be able to be here.So thanks.Well, thank you for sharingyour story and your wisdom.And, um, you know, I think a lot of peopleare, a lot of our listeners will learn alot from some, some of the stuff youshared, especially, um, professionally.I think the wisdom you have when it comesto your professional journey, um, and thedifferent aspects of sales and theintegrity that you bring to that role.I think the youngergenerations can learn a lot from that.And so I really appreciate that you didsuch a deep dive into that because, um, Ithink there's aspects that, um, the youngergenerations need to learn a little bitmore, um, about the meaning behind whenyou're selling something, not just thesale.So I think you really, youbrought that to the forefront.One, one thing I'll add to what we've seenboomers get a, take a tough rap, um, sayin the comments and stuff, but I do thinkyou've represented the boomer as well.And I think for our listeners, she, andI've said it in other episodes where I'vesaid I've, I know someboomers that are good people.I think you've represented your, yourboomer generation well.And I know you're not full of crap.This is all genuine stuff.And I've known JD for a few years now,several years, 15, 18 years.Probably.Yeah.Wow.Wow.I didn't know it was that long.Yeah.Well, and so much of what weare about here is authenticity.And so I can say to our listeners, we havean authentic boomer inhere that's authentic.And I think there are more, but I, I thinkas Brian just said, you're such a greatexample of someone that's coming from thatgeneration that gets it.That's real.That's, um, that can just relate withanyone probably from any age and anygeneration, and I think that, and you'renot all about yourself, you know, you,you're, you're giving back, you, um, arethere to, to meet people halfway.I just know that that'show you approach life.And, and I think there areother boomers like you out there.It's just that, unfortunately, the youngergenerations encounter 10, not like thatbefore they come across one like you.And so I think they getdiscouraged, you know?And so, um, I just, I'm so glad you came onto share your story becauseI appreciate that.What, what are they, if I may ask, what,what are they, what do you find?Cause they're rude.They're in general, again, I'm interested,very rude service people like staff atrestaurants and stores,centered, greedy, self-centered.Yeah.Yeah.Greedy.Fuck up the whole world.I'm not even kidding.There's a lot of people with an attitude ofthe boomers, fuck it up for the rest ofus type of thing.Excuse my French.Did you know greatestgeneration to boom or what?No, greatest generation,silent generation, boomer, Gen X.So I was raised by silent generation.Probably.Probably.Okay.Yeah.Yeah.No.And I think there's a lot of, alot of good boomers out there.Here's the thing.There's a lot of good boomers, but the onesthat aren't are loud.About it.Okay.And so they're the loud ones.And then the other boomers are just livingtheir life like it, like the rest of us,you know, but that's what's being projectedonto the younger generation.Got it.Part of it.I think part of it is probably veryprofessionally driven, corporate driven inthat there's a lot of boomers still inmanagement roles and their tirelessworkers, and they expect the same from thepeople that they're managing so that theydon't, they don't get theconcept of work life balance, right?They expect you to always be on and that'spart of the perception.I don't know if it's as much as you, youknow, you're go down to the park andOh, let's stay clear of the boomers, butit's, you know, that's sort of thatprofessional to seewhat you guys have heard.And it's good to know.Cause you know what?Yeah.Yeah. You don't know, right?Why do that?Yeah.Yeah.No, no, but I think you are right.Because millennials brought the work lifebalance, tried to bring the work lifebalance into the workplace.And then Gen Z is really wanting thatthey're, you know, their state, their,their one expect have more expectationsand, um, have even more boundaries.And so I think when there's youngergenerations coming into the corporateworld with that attitude, and then ifthere's boomers that are like, we go towork, we work as hard as possible.You work over time, you work on theweekends, I don't know, no questionsasked, they just don't,they, yeah, they clash.And so, and so I think.That's also what's going on, you know, andI think they can both learn from eachother, but right now there's a clash andthen there's Gen X and they're going,wait, let's talk this out.Come on you guys.So, um, that on the professional and then,and then on, and just when they're out inthe wild, it's the, the ones that are rude,but they were rude their whole life.That's the thing.These are just rude people.They just happen to be in this generation.It's not a generational thing.There's Gen X, there's an act like that,you know, so, but that'swhy, again, I'm so happy you came on andshared your story because you're just thisawesome guy, you know, this is great guy.You know, you, you, you, you kind of justend up with people that you want to bearound and you know, do the right thing.You know, probably a lot of that.Yeah.Well, I think you're really cool.You're really cool.So much fun.Really cool.Boomer.So again, thank you.And just sharing about your personal life.And, um, again, there's just a lot ofwisdom there and I'm really happy that ourlisteners are going to get, um, get someexposure to what you have to share.Cause I know there's someone out there thatwill learn something or there mightbe other boomers out there listening thatcan say, I can totally relate to that.So cool.I remember that, you know, or, oh yeah.So, um, again, thank you so much.Yeah.The impeller is what I was thinking of whenthe, the car, the car,it was on his mic.Yeah.That's what happened.You know what I mean?Yes.I'm thinking that forthe last couple of years.And good luck with yourdaughter's wedding in January.It's exciting.And with your grand babies and, um, withyour retirement that's in the future andall that stuff.So thank you again.And to our listeners, please leave anyquestions or comments.We always love to hear from youand we will see you next time.Bye.