Latest / Conspiracy! The Show / The Next MK-Ultra (Repost)

Transcript

The Next MK-Ultra (Repost) · Conspiracy! The Show

• 0:10
  Speaker 1: Hey everybody, welcome to Conspiracy the Show.
• 0:34
  Speaker 2: I'm Adam Todd Brown. Who are you?
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: I'm Fizza Dasani.
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: We are your goddamn hosts today.
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 0:40
  Speaker 2: This is gonna be the start of something magical. Not magical,
• 0:47
  Speaker 2: magical's a weird way to put it.
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I think positive and fruitful.
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: Fruitful for sure. We're gonna get a lot of podcast
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: episodes out of this. I think we might even do
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: an entire like, Side podcast, just about one aspect of this.
• 1:06
  Speaker 2: We might do that on Pretty Scary, which is basically
• 1:10
  Speaker 2: the companion podcast to Conspiracy the Show.
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: So today's episode is basically a Pandora's box.
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: It is. This is a pangea of unpopular opinion shows.
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: We are talking about the- An amalgamation. Yes. It's a portmanteau.
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: A podmanteau. It's a- I should get lazy and just
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: release it.
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: Oh, my God. Yeah, this one's meaty.
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: There is so much to this. We're talking about a
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: group called The Finders. Yeah. Fell down a real rabbit
• 1:47
  Speaker 2: hole yesterday researching this. This was my day. And as
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: you'll learn listening to this podcast, makes for a very
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: dark day. Yeah. It was not an upbeat experience. If
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: this sounds familiar, it's because we actually, on episode 55
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: of this podcast, back when we were just learning to crawl. Yeah.
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: Just babies.
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: What episode are we now?
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: Like 96. Okay. Not that long ago. Like halfway into this.
• 2:19
  Speaker 2: We did an episode about... The claim that Julian Assange
• 2:26
  Speaker 2: was born into and raised in this weird like mind
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: control sex cult called The Family. And it was on
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: a general episode about CIA related cults. And we talked
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: very briefly about this 1987 incident that happened there. in Tallahassee, Florida,
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: involving this group called The Finders. And we just sort
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: of scratched the surface. And I sort of put it
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: out of my head. And then the other day, the
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: day before yesterday, I was researching a completely different thing,
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: which we'll probably cover later. And I find this link
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: to this recent FBI document release from my favorite website, vault.fbi.gov.
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: Fucking cannot recommend it enough.
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: The most requested document on vault.fbi.gov in the month of October.
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: And released in October.
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: Released in late October. Okay.
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: And requested and then released?
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: That's the thing. No one is quite sure why this
• 3:35
  Speaker 2: is getting released right now.
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: And these documents were created in 1993.
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: 1993 and 1987. I remember the news in Tallahassee. So
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: there was press involvement initially in 87. But were the
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: documents from 87 as well?
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: In that FBI release of documents, a lot of it
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: is the initial police reports and investigations from 1987. And
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: then that runs its course, which we'll get to. And
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: then in 1993, there's another... investigation.
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: And the names have been redacted.
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: The names in the FBI files have been redacted, but
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: some of the things they put in there, like some
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: of the police reports, there's a Metro, a Washington Metro
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: PD police report that has since been released related to
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: this incident. And I think that is less redacted because
• 4:38
  Speaker 2: there's different like YouTube videos and shit surprise that you
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: can watch about this. And a lot of them have
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: screenshots of these police reports and they're not redacted. Okay,
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: so it's out there. Which is fascinating to me. Yeah.
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: So much information is out there about this now. And
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: it feels like.
• 4:58
  Speaker 2: We were talking about MKUltra before this. And every bit
• 5:04
  Speaker 2: of this has sort of an MKUltra feel to it.
• 5:08
  Speaker 2: Because it's a lot of stuff about mind control and...
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: sex cults and programming people to do your bidding.
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think with... One way to program is
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: creating trauma.
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: Right. Yes.
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: And often, I've heard that it's sex trauma. At a
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: young age, childhood sex trauma is very impactful, of course.
• 5:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah. And that's when you get into the, I guess,
• 5:38
  Speaker 2: fringe conspiracy theories about the CIA. I don't know how
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: fringe those theories are anymore, but- That's a lot of
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: what you read and hear about. People still don't want
• 5:52
  Speaker 2: to wrap their heads around it, but that's a lot
• 5:54
  Speaker 2: of what MKUltra was. When you dig into it, it's
• 5:58
  Speaker 2: not just that they were giving people LSD. There were
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: prostitutes involved, and those prostitutes weren't like.
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: Involved as subjects?
• 6:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: Being given LSD unbeknownst to them?
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: The CIA, and we know this, this isn't speculation, the
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: CIA ran a brothel in San Francisco in the 1960s.
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: How do you think those women ended up working there?
• 6:26
  Speaker 2: It's not like they replied to a Craigslist ad.
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah. They were selected and groomed?
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, because it's not like the CIA can just pluck
• 6:35
  Speaker 2: women off the streets and be like, all right, now
• 6:37
  Speaker 2: fuck this rich guy for money and we might blackmail
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: him over it in the future if we need to.
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: You can't just do that. You need someone who's a
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: little compliant.
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: I wonder what purpose it served. Was it to sort
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: of store these women or have access to them? What
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: was the goal of this brothel?
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: The brothel in San Francisco, and there were probably others,
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: but it was at a time when They were doing
• 7:07
  Speaker 2: a lot of drugging people and observing what would happen.
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: And what's crazy about that is... Oh, yeah.
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: And you have all kinds of people coming in as
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: well in a brothel.
• 7:19
  Speaker 2: Right. Yeah.
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: And you can have... I mean, if you're employing these women,
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: who knows who's the subject and who's in on what?
• 7:26
  Speaker 2: And what's... Really alarming about that is it's one thing
• 7:33
  Speaker 2: for the CIA to have run something like this. And
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: I mean, CIA people associated with the CIA, you have
• 7:41
  Speaker 2: to look into MKUltra and get. all the names, Sidney Gottlieb,
• 7:45
  Speaker 2: I think, is a name that comes up pretty regularly.
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: But all these people that had ties to U.S. intelligence,
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: there's this brothel, and the suggestion is, oh, well, we
• 7:56
  Speaker 2: were just getting people high and sending women out to
• 7:59
  Speaker 2: see what would happen. But it's like, is that really
• 8:02
  Speaker 2: all that was happening? Like, you're U.S. intelligence, and one
• 8:06
  Speaker 2: of the rumors or suggestions that has come out about
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: the Jeffrey Epstein thing is that what he was doing
• 8:15
  Speaker 2: was yes, throwing these sex parties, but one of the, like,
• 8:20
  Speaker 2: no one's really sure how he made his money. Yeah.
• 8:23
  Speaker 2: And one of the suggestions is he would bring people
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: to these sex parties and there would be drugs and
• 8:30
  Speaker 2: alcohol involved. And as someone got more and more fucked
• 8:34
  Speaker 2: up and more comfortable throughout the night, they'd start sending
• 8:37
  Speaker 2: younger and younger women in and they'd videotape it all.
• 8:41
  Speaker 2: And then the next morning, that guy would wake up
• 8:43
  Speaker 2: and Jeffrey Epstein would be like, oh, guess what?
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: Blackmail.
• 8:48
  Speaker 2: You are investing all your money with me now or
• 8:51
  Speaker 2: this tape comes out.
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: So he's in the business of blackmail. But how many
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: times can he get away with that? Like, you know,
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: his buddy, his rich buddy is like, oh, yeah, I'm
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: going to get on that, you know, Jeffrey Epstein, whatever
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: they call Alita plane, whatever. He's going to be like, hey,
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: just FYI, you might not want to do that.
• 9:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's... But I mean, that's always the question.
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: Like, I mean, I'm sure, you know, like, I think
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: maybe he could have done that, but I don't think,
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: I think he probably had multiple sources of income. Maybe
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: all CD. I don't know.
• 9:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah. That's the thing that like, they know of one
• 9:25
  Speaker 2: person that invested money with Jeffrey Epstein. Yeah. Like he
• 9:29
  Speaker 2: had one official client and beyond that, it's like, there are.
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: And how much of his wealth comes from that one client?
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: Do they know that amount?
• 9:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I don't think that one client has enough wealth
• 9:42
  Speaker 2: for Jeffrey Epstein to own a private island off of
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: what he would make investing that dude's money. There was
• 9:50
  Speaker 2: a really, I mean, we're kind of getting off course,
• 9:53
  Speaker 2: but not really because this is sort of the same thing.
• 9:55
  Speaker 2: But there was a really interesting article that came out
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: not long after. Jeffrey Epstein went back to prison again,
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: where it was like money people, like financial analysts, Wall
• 10:08
  Speaker 2: Street types, who were all interviewed and asked to like,
• 10:12
  Speaker 2: just sort of speculate on how he would have made
• 10:15
  Speaker 2: his money. That's how unfamiliar his assets and finances are
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: to everyone. He's like Trump in that way. We still
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: can't get Trump's tax returns. We don't really know how
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: much money Trump has.
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: Why is it so difficult to get these documents?
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: Well, with Jeffrey Epstein, the question is, do the documents
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: even exist? So in that way, at that point, that
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: he was running a blackmail ring is... as possible as
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: anything else as part of the business when it comes
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: to how he made money and that's kind of my
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: thought when when i hear the cia had a brothel
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: in san francisco in the 60s during mk ultra it's
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: like is that all it was for was so you
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: could monitor people when they were on lsd like you
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: spent mk ultra started in the 50s and by that
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: point we're like a decade in And you're still just going, Oh,
• 11:13
  Speaker 2: what's this going to do? Like, you know what it
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: does by then.
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 11:16
  Speaker 2: So what's the point of it 10 years later? And
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: it feels like probably part of that because it's not
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: like it's going to say CIA brothel outside. And it's
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: not like someone's going to come to you and be like, dude,
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: I know a great CIA place close to here. If
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: you want to go do a bunch of drugs, fuck
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: a bunch of women. No, it's like, you're going to
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: be some influential person who's in town and And your
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: rich friend comes to you and goes, want to do
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: some Illuminati shit? Let's go to the secret brothel no
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: one knows about.
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: So the clientele is aware of where they're going.
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: To an extent. If you go to a strip club
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: and it turns out that strip club is full of
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: government cameras that are going to use... The footage on
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: there to blackmail you by showing it to your spouse.
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: Are you just going to a strip club or are
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: you going to a CIA black site?
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: Like they knew where they were going in that. And
• 12:11
  Speaker 2: this is all like speculation, but no one's going to,
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: no one's going to be like, yeah, I'll go to
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: the CIA place.
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: So I'll let the.
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: Government give me drugs and watch me have sex with women.
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: That sounds amazing. No, you got to be tricked into that. Yeah.
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: And like at that level of deception, this was a
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: way to have some control over influential people, money, maybe. Right.
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: And when MK, what I was getting at with all
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: of that is when MK ultra was eventually shut down
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: and exposed one, it happened because of one incident. which
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: is the same thing with the finders. Uh, there was
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: one box of documents that got stored in the wrong
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: place and didn't get shredded. And it came out during
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: the church committee and the CIA had to be like, Ooh,
• 12:59
  Speaker 2: you caught us. We were doing all of that shit. Sorry.
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: We've sent, shut it down. And everyone was like, all right,
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: sure you did. But how do we know?
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: One box misplaced. It sounds like a Good Samaritan.
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: Kind of. And that very well could have been what
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: it was.
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: Just one, you know?
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: As depicted in the HBO series Succession. I don't know
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: if anyone watches Succession, but there is a scene where
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: someone's tasked with shredding documents. And he's like, I keep
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: a couple of these just in case. Yeah. And that
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: you're right. That could have been exactly what it was.
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: Someone could have been like, people might want to know
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: about this later.
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: It's interesting because the box, if you know, is full
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: of juicy stuff, juicy information. So it's just, you know,
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: it could have been a box that wasn't, you know,
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: and that's, I'm sure there's plenty of boxes with just
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: paperwork for the sake of paperwork.
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: That's the thing. That box before that box was found,
• 13:57
  Speaker 2: the CIA was like, all right, we were doing it,
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: but it wasn't, it wasn't massive.
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: Um, They were playing it down, but then they couldn't
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: because it was completely exposed.
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: And then that box of this, these like 20,000 documents
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: comes out and they're like, yeah, you were right. It
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: was massive. Cause it turned out MK ultra happened at,
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: I think it was 130 different hospitals and universities across
• 14:19
  Speaker 2: the United States and Canada. So that's basically everywhere. Like
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: it was happening to some extent to people without their knowledge, uh,
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: in a all over the fucking country and after it
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: came out instead of being like maybe we need an
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: alternative to the CIA Because you have gotten a little
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: out of control. We were like, all right, well, stop.
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: Stop that. And go back to being nice. Well, yeah,
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: I mean, this is abusive. Okay. It's systemic ritual abuse
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: of the American population.
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, it's kind of like Nazi shit.
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: In terms of their research practices.
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: And that even in some of these Finders documentaries, that
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: exact thing comes up. Is that it seemed like the
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: goal of the finders was to produce a race of
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: like perfect super people.
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: And what's interesting is this all. So when MKUltra gets
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: shut down and all of that experimenting on people who
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: were unaware of it stops, what starts in the 80s?
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: uh the satanic panic and kids just getting fucking kidnapped
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: left and right like uh kids got kidnapped forever but
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: i grew up in the 80s so i very vividly
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: remember the 80s being the era of kids getting snatched
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: off the fucking street yeah.
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: Because in most you know people weren't concerned about that
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: until it started happening so frequently. Like, you know, people
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: left their doors unlocked at night. I used to all
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: the time.
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: I would have been six, seven. Maybe I used to
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: walk to this convenience store by my house, like by
• 16:12
  Speaker 2: my standards as a kid, it was by my house. Yeah.
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: I would drive there as an adult. That's how fucking
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: lazy I've become because in all actuality, it was like
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: eight blocks.
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: And I would walk that shit by myself as a
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: kid day and night. My parents didn't give a fuck.
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: No one cared.
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: That's when they started putting like, um, faces, missing faces
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: on the milk boxes, right? The milk cartons.
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: It was the Adam Walsh thing that really kicked that off.
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: And I think, and you're right. That's when faces on
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: milk cartons started.
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: I wonder how much knowledge he has of, of this
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: sort of thing. Cause if so many kids disappeared and
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: they were being smuggled into these programs and You know,
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: I mean, he is personal for him and he would.
• 16:58
  Speaker 2: Be he would be an interesting person to ask about
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: this because and we're talking about John Walsh, obviously, Adam
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: Walsh's dad, because he seems like someone who'd be very
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: like by the book in law and order and wouldn't.
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: entertain a wild theory like this but that all flies
• 17:16
  Speaker 2: out the window when your kid goes missing and they
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: only find his head like because that's what happened with
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: adam walsh they never found his body they just found.
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: His how young was his son i think he.
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: Was eight like seven or eight and i was like
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: seven or eight at the time my name was adam
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: yeah uh still is uh so i remember that shit
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: vividly and like from then on like stories of kids
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: going missing it was like 10,000 kids go missing every
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: fucking day. And it's like every day, probably not. But like,
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: that's what the statistics felt like back then. Yeah.
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: I mean, I remember in the early nineties as well.
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: That's when I started retaining memories. Um, you know, like it's, yeah,
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: it did seem like that was something to fear. Like
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: someone getting, you know, getting snatched up. Don't talk to strangers.
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: Don't take candy from strangers. Was that a moniker? Don't
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: take candy from strangers in the seventies or the sixties.
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't think so. I feel like Stranger Danger
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: and all that wasn't as big of a deal back then.
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: I was born in 76, so I remember the mid
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: to late 80s pretty well, but I just remember kidnappings
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: and I remember the satanic panic. Yeah.
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: That's what a lot of those child disappearances, you would
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: see it attributed to that. In the press? Yeah. There
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: were all of these daycare operators who went to prison.
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: There's a great documentary about it. The same group that
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: pushes shaken baby syndrome, which if you look into shaken
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: baby syndrome- mostly a myth because we'll think about like
• 19:01
  Speaker 2: everyone has seen those demonstrations of a baby being shaken. Yeah.
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: And you see that head flopping back and forth. That
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: is a baby. Their neck would snap. And if there
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: is a diagnosis of shaken baby syndrome and there's no
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: neck injuries, it's not shaken baby syndrome. You cannot inflict
• 19:22
  Speaker 2: those injuries through shaking.
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: And Without breaking the neck first.
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: Without injuring the neck.
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: So it's a false, it's a coverup.
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: And what happened is the same group that pushed the
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: satanic panic in the 80s got behind the idea of
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: shaken baby syndrome. And even the doctor who first suggested
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: shaken baby syndrome could be a thing was like, yes,
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: but only if there's neck injuries present. If there's no
• 19:47
  Speaker 2: neck injuries, that's not shaken baby syndrome. It's something else.
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: Well, yeah, you'd have to put a lot of effort
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: into shaking the baby very differently.
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: To not break, like to shake the baby, but keep
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: the neck secure. And that probably could cause some damage
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: as well, but.
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah. And that group took what he said and they
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: were like, okay, everything except the neck thing, let's go.
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: And they got this law put in place where if
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: a doctor sees these three symptoms, they immediately have to
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: notify authorities. because those three symptoms can only be caused
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: by shaken baby syndrome. And that's a lie. Those symptoms
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: can be caused by vitamin D deficiency. They can be
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: caused by a fall. They can be caused by something
• 20:31
  Speaker 2: like 26 different conditions. But the same group that convinced
• 20:36
  Speaker 2: everyone in the 80s that daycare operators were out here
• 20:40
  Speaker 2: committing ritual satanic abuse, once that got exposed as not
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: being the case, They moved on to, okay, well now
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: shaken baby syndrome is the problem. And all these parents
• 20:52
  Speaker 2: all across the country are shaking their fucking kids and
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: killing them. And if you look into all these parents
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: who are in prison for it, no neck injuries. Like the,
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: the guy who's looked into it the most has not
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: found a single case of neck injuries being present where
• 21:07
  Speaker 2: these parents went to prison.
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: So is it a framing of the parents of if they,
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: you know, they fucked up and killed the kid?
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: It, whatever experiment or.
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: The only thing i can well the only thing i
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: can think of in terms of that is like it's
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: got to sort of be a private prison thing yeah
• 21:27
  Speaker 2: like maybe a way to keep people who wouldn't normally
• 21:31
  Speaker 2: go to prison keep them part of the prison population
• 21:34
  Speaker 2: i have no idea why the people behind the satanic
• 21:38
  Speaker 2: panic moved on to shaken baby syndrome. But the thing
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: about the finders and what makes all of that really
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: confusing for me is we all know the satanic panic happened.
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: Almost every parent or daycare operator who was convicted under
• 21:55
  Speaker 2: that was subsequently acquitted and released, I think. one person
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: might still be in prison and even they probably shouldn't be.
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: So the, the inclination is to go, okay, yeah, well
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: that's all bullshit. Uh, there was no ritualistic abuse of
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: children by any group in the eighties. And then this
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: fucking finders thing happens in the 1987 in Tallahassee. And
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: it's like, okay, but maybe it was happening a little
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: and we shouldn't have been so quick to write it off. Yeah.
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: And it, What's really uncomfortable about the finders and going
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: down this rabbit hole, I'm sure you probably experienced this too,
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: very Pizzagate-esque. Yeah, yeah.
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: I immediately thought of that.
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: Because Pizzagate is, it sounds insane that a sex trafficking
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: ring would be operated by elite educated types working out
• 22:59
  Speaker 2: of Washington DC and doing it through a local pizza place.
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: I always wonder like, why, why do like successful rich
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: men love fucking kids so much or so many of them?
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: It just seems like a disparate, I don't know.
• 23:13
  Speaker 2: It's yeah. It's got like, or maybe, I don't know.
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: It's there. There's a fringe within that group. I don't know.
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: It just seems like a disproportionate percentage. I don't know.
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: It, it, No, it does. I mean, I guess, I
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: don't know. I, I feel like saying, yeah, rich, rich
• 23:30
  Speaker 2: dudes are going to molest you. Like, I don't want
• 23:33
  Speaker 2: to put that out there because I feel like you
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: should just be on guard in general around adults. If
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: you're a child, like, and maybe it's just because the
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: satanic panic and, uh, aliens abducting all the kids in
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: the eighties, which is another theory that's out there about it.
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: I don't know. Yeah. Like, I feel like you have
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: to want to fuck kids to be able to answer
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: that question.
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Or be just, you know, a ruthless pragmatist who sees, uh, yeah, opportunity. And,
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: but that's the thing is what's the, yeah.
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: Imagine hat.
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: Like just, why does the government have a hand in
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: sex trafficking?
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: Well, it's weird. One of the, if you get, Deep
• 24:12
  Speaker 2: enough into this Finder's investigation, at one point it suggested
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: that the CIA didn't mean for this to turn into
• 24:22
  Speaker 2: a sex cult. It just kind of turned into a
• 24:25
  Speaker 2: satanic sex cult. And they were like, oh, fuck. Like,
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: we were just trying to.
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: I swear to God, the CIA, I don't know what
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: they do to people.
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: They need a sitcom.
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: People come out of there just fucked up, and then
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: the CIA has to clean up their mess, and they
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: create these quote-unquote monsters. Yeah. And then it's like, I mean,
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: look at the war on terrorism and all that shit.
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: Who puts people in power?
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's... The reason I bring up MKUltra, one, because
• 24:54
  Speaker 2: I do sort of, with how prevalent cults were in
• 24:59
  Speaker 2: the 80s, like regardless of the satanic thing, whether they
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: were influenced by Satan or not, just the sheer number
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: of cults that became a big, big deal in the 80s,
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: including Scientology, which if people are unfamiliar, the founder of Scientology, L.
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: Ron Hubbard, was in the Navy before he started Scientology.
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: All of these cults that spring up in the 80s
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: after looking through all this finder shit, it just sort
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: of makes me wonder if when MKUltra shut down, if
• 25:32
  Speaker 2: the CIA was like, okay, no more universities and hospitals.
• 25:36
  Speaker 2: Let's create communes.
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: We need to get off the grid.
• 25:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: And maybe using, you know, former military to be a
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: point or, you know, or as a pawn even. I
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: don't know how in they, I mean, to be the
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: leader of a commune, I feel like there has to
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: be some sort of delusion.
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: Well, one of the weirdest, and people try to write
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: this off all the time. We did an episode about
• 25:59
  Speaker 2: it but we just scratched the surface because there is a,
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: I think, 28-part magazine article that I think was eventually
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: turned into a book about how every single influential member
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: of that Laurel Canyon music scene in the 60s, like
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: Neil Young, The Doors, The Birds, fucking David Crosby, all
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: of those motherfuckers are military children. All of them, that
• 26:28
  Speaker 2: entire fucking scene is in, you can make the argument. Well,
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: world war two happened. So a lot of people like
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: join the military or went to the military and then
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: like Vietnam started. And so of course, but all of them,
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: like all of them, every single fucking one. Yeah. All
• 26:47
  Speaker 2: military kids just by fucking chance show up at Laurel
• 26:52
  Speaker 2: Canyon at Frank Zappa's house. at the same time and
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: start the counterculture movement. And we're supposed to be like, yeah,
• 27:00
  Speaker 2: there's no government involvement there. Like, of course there's some.
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: I mean, it makes you raise a brow. Yeah, of course.
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: At least one, you know?
• 27:10
  Speaker 2: And when you look into all of these different cults
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: and communes that popped up in the 80s, a lot
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: of them popped up off American soil or moved to
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: off American soil. Yeah. And The CIA isn't supposed to
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: operate on American soil. And if you dig into the
• 27:28
  Speaker 2: details of these individual groups, a lot of times you
• 27:33
  Speaker 2: fucking end up at the CIA. You end up having
• 27:36
  Speaker 2: questions about where they get their money and why they
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: were allowed to go the places they went, which is
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: a thing you see here.
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: Because, you know, they're on the radar.
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: Of course.
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: They're absolutely on the radar. So it's, you know, who knows?
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: You know, you might make a deal.
• 27:49
  Speaker 2: Like if this network just set up a fucking commune
• 27:53
  Speaker 2: in Idaho, we'd get it. Someone would come infiltrate us.
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: Like if I was like, I'm taking these fucking messages
• 27:59
  Speaker 2: about Trump to a goddamn mountaintop in Idaho, it would
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: be Ruby Ridge part two. Like I would, I would,
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: I would get shot. Probably the government does not take
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: kindly to that. Yeah. So of course all these groups
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: were on the government's radar. Yeah.
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: And, and, and in the good graces. Yeah.
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: It, it seems that way. And It feels like the
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: finders could be that box of documents moment for the
• 28:27
  Speaker 2: second half of MKUltra.
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: Today or this month.
• 28:31
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: Where we know MKUltra shut down in theory. Yeah. And
• 28:36
  Speaker 2: people are like, yeah, but they're probably still doing it somehow.
• 28:38
  Speaker 2: I feel like these documents could be the thing that
• 28:42
  Speaker 2: if it's honestly investigated and looked into enough, we might
• 28:47
  Speaker 2: find out MKUltra continued and it continued as communes and cults. Yeah,
• 28:52
  Speaker 2: I mean, it is very- Which is the logical way
• 28:54
  Speaker 2: to continue it.
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, off the grid, no paper trail. And if you're
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: the entity that's supposed to be responsible for for observing
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: and controlling these groups, then you have the power there.
• 29:08
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 29:08
  Speaker 2: So let's talk about this Tallahassee incident.
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: And that's where it's odd. It's very odd for it
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: was five kids.
• 29:17
  Speaker 2: I think it was six. It was either five or six.
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: Six kids discovered in dirty clothes with two men in suits?
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: That's just an odd visual in itself.
• 29:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that alone, I'm already out. It's like, get a
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: fucking woman in that van, please. Like, this is a nightmare.
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: Well, and it's like you two guys put together and
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: five kids who've who have not lived yeah in society.
• 29:39
  Speaker 2: They look like street children yeah and these dudes are
• 29:42
  Speaker 2: well dressed well put together wearing suits they're traveling in
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: a van so what happens February 4th 1987 Douglas Ammerman
• 29:51
  Speaker 2: 27 and James Michael Howell sometimes called Michael Houlihan 28
• 29:56
  Speaker 2: are pulled over in a van in Tallahassee after a
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: woman calls the police and says, uh, these two well-dressed
• 30:05
  Speaker 2: men were just at the park with these two kids
• 30:08
  Speaker 2: that she described as scruffy and hungry.
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: So if a kid looks hungry, you know what I'm saying?
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: If a kid is hungry, it's like, okay, there's there,
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: that kid needs to be attended to, but they're looking hungry. Yeah.
• 30:22
  Speaker 2: It's like with the fucking Sarah McLachlan dog commercials. Yeah.
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: When you see a dog that's all skin and bones,
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: you're like, get that good boy some food. Yeah. I'm
• 30:30
  Speaker 2: sure it's the same with kids.
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: You want to adopt them.
• 30:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly.
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: Like in the send a dollar a month type of way.
• 30:36
  Speaker 2: And these were like feral kids. Most of them, according
• 30:42
  Speaker 2: to police reports, didn't recognize modern things.
• 30:46
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: Telephones and typewriters and like.
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: I think I read in one of the articles that
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: only one of the children was able to give information
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: to the police.
• 30:56
  Speaker 2: They were mostly non-communicative except for the oldest girl who
• 31:01
  Speaker 2: is identified as Mary. And all of the kids are
• 31:06
  Speaker 2: identified only by their first names. John, Franklin, Max, Mary, Bebe,
• 31:13
  Speaker 2: and Honeybee. Again, honeybee, get those kids to the police
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: right now.
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: You're just setting her up for success, right?
• 31:21
  Speaker 2: And when they ask these two dudes what they're doing
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: with these kids, their response is we're transporting them to
• 31:29
  Speaker 2: Mexico so we can establish a school for brilliant children.
• 31:32
  Speaker 2: I mean, and I mean, flattering for those kids. I'm sure.
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: But it's just like, well, you don't want to give
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: them a bath or a snack.
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: You don't want to fly. You don't want to like
• 31:41
  Speaker 2: fly them there.
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 31:42
  Speaker 2: Like feed them, do anything in the.
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: Back of them. They're so brilliant. Just throw them in
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: the back of a van. Like they're not showing any value.
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: They also told police that the kids were being weaned
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: from their mothers. Okay.
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: That's I mean, come on. Yeah.
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: That's a problem.
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: That's a red flag.
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: That's a huge red flag. And they claim the parents
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: were in Washington, DC, which that part's important. So the
• 32:03
  Speaker 2: police are like, all right, we should probably just arrest you. Like, yeah,
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: this feels like a really big problem.
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: And this was a local Tallahassee police.
• 32:12
  Speaker 2: Tallahassee PD. And when they say that they're going to
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: arrest these men, Michael Houlihan falls face down on the
• 32:21
  Speaker 2: ground and refuses to stand up, but they arrest him anyway,
• 32:24
  Speaker 2: as you do. I don't, I don't know if he
• 32:26
  Speaker 2: thought playing dead was going to work.
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: Oh, he, okay. Like he, he just like he had
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: an aneurysm or something.
• 32:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Like he fainted or something.
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Jesus.
• 32:34
  Speaker 2: And the police search this van and they find a
• 32:37
  Speaker 2: stash of fake IDs, more than 20 floppy disks, a
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: TSR 80 computer, a Chinese to English translation dictionary, and
• 32:47
  Speaker 2: a device used to connect two computers via a phone line,
• 32:51
  Speaker 2: which we know now is a modem, but police in 87.
• 32:54
  Speaker 2: It's like, fucking ancient Egypt seeing spaceships and they're like, look,
• 32:59
  Speaker 2: it's a flaming bird.
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: They just, I mean, they described it pretty accurately.
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: I mean, they nailed it in 1987 tech terms. So
• 33:08
  Speaker 2: the police were initially unable to locate the parents. Another
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: huge problem. Yeah.
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: I mean, like when you think of kids under the
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: age of six, it's just like, it's, I just remember
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: being upset when my parents left at that age. Right.
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: You know, like it's just I think there's something in
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: development where like that time that bonding with the parent,
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: like it's it's it's a little traumatizing to just like
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: not have your parents around like that.
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: Well, maybe it would have been less traumatizing if you
• 33:37
  Speaker 2: were weaned off your mother at a younger age. Yeah.
• 33:39
  Speaker 2: If you had been thrown in a van.
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: I guess I just wasn't considered brilliant enough to be
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: taken to Mexico.
• 33:44
  Speaker 2: If I was starting a school in Mexico for just
• 33:47
  Speaker 2: brilliant people now.
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: It's never too late.
• 33:49
  Speaker 2: I would use you to found it. I can't be
• 33:55
  Speaker 2: in it. I passed my prime. That's exactly how I
• 33:58
  Speaker 2: want to say it. I would use you to found it.
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: I can't be. I'm not as influenceable or what is
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: it called when you... take drugs and people can't program me.
• 34:11
  Speaker 2: I don't know where we'd find drugs in Los Angeles
• 34:13
  Speaker 2: is the problem.
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: I know that's a tough one.
• 34:15
  Speaker 2: So yeah, all of these kids, uh, one important detail
• 34:20
  Speaker 2: about this very important detail is the police initially said
• 34:26
  Speaker 2: two of the children showed signs of sexual abuse and
• 34:30
  Speaker 2: I'll link to a documentary. It's not really a documentary.
• 34:34
  Speaker 2: It's a like a 20 minute YouTube video that kind
• 34:37
  Speaker 2: of lays out the timeline of this. And when you
• 34:40
  Speaker 2: just hear the police say, Oh, there were signs of
• 34:42
  Speaker 2: sexual abuse. It's hard to wrap your head around what
• 34:45
  Speaker 2: that means. And it is horrific. And I don't want
• 34:49
  Speaker 2: to fucking say what it means, but they didn't just
• 34:51
  Speaker 2: glance at these kids and go, Hey, that kid's been touched.
• 34:55
  Speaker 2: Like a doctor examined these kids and found signs of
• 34:59
  Speaker 2: sexual abuse. So at this point it's a problem. Yeah.
• 35:04
  Speaker 2: And they still can't find the parents. All of the
• 35:07
  Speaker 2: kids are uncommunicative. They're covered in bug bites, which is strange.
• 35:13
  Speaker 2: They would ask to go outside when they wanted to
• 35:15
  Speaker 2: use the bathroom. One of them defecated on the floor
• 35:18
  Speaker 2: of the police station, which that's kind of dope. Yeah,
• 35:22
  Speaker 2: I'd maybe do that right now, given the chance.
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he's starting a movement.
• 35:28
  Speaker 2: The girl who was able to talk said that they
• 35:32
  Speaker 2: had been living together in a house with several other
• 35:35
  Speaker 2: children and adults. They were only allowed to eat when
• 35:38
  Speaker 2: it was a reward for good behavior, and even then
• 35:41
  Speaker 2: they were only given raw fruits and vegetables. She said
• 35:44
  Speaker 2: a man called the Game Caller was their leader, and
• 35:48
  Speaker 2: he told both the adults and children what to do.
• 35:51
  Speaker 2: When asked about sexual abuse, she denied anything of the
• 35:54
  Speaker 2: like had happened, but also got very uncomfortable and asked
• 35:57
  Speaker 2: to end the interview at that point. And the next day,
• 36:01
  Speaker 2: police confirm that all of these people, the adults and
• 36:04
  Speaker 2: the children, are part of this group called the Finders.
• 36:07
  Speaker 2: So that's the Tallahassee portion of what happens. And as
• 36:13
  Speaker 2: crazy as all of that is, it gets significantly crazier. Yeah.
• 36:18
  Speaker 2: Like the investigations into this are nuts. And the... FBI documents.
• 36:25
  Speaker 2: The thing about FBI dumps and things like that, if
• 36:29
  Speaker 2: you just pull them up, this isn't really the case
• 36:32
  Speaker 2: with the Mueller report, which I bring up just because
• 36:35
  Speaker 2: I hate when people running for president are like, I've
• 36:40
  Speaker 2: read the Mueller report. It's like, bitch, it's a book
• 36:42
  Speaker 2: you can buy in stores. You should have read the
• 36:46
  Speaker 2: Mueller report the day it came out. You're running for president.
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, thanks for doing your job.
• 36:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm supposed to be impressed that you read a
• 36:52
  Speaker 2: 400-page book this year?
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's all relative now. Look at the standards
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: of today. Reading? Right. A president who reads?
• 37:03
  Speaker 2: So I get it when, and we'll link to the
• 37:07
  Speaker 2: FBI documents on the website, You click on it first.
• 37:09
  Speaker 2: It's pretty imposing. Yeah. It's like 300 some pages, I think.
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: Over 300. Yeah.
• 37:14
  Speaker 2: But what you have to understand about that, there's a
• 37:16
  Speaker 2: lot of cover letters. There's a lot of the same
• 37:20
  Speaker 2: report filed multiple times, so you don't have to read it.
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: And it's on a full page each time.
• 37:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: So it's not too dense.
• 37:27
  Speaker 2: It reads faster than you would expect. I got through
• 37:30
  Speaker 2: all of it yesterday in a couple hours. Yeah. And
• 37:33
  Speaker 2: that's reading it thoroughly. Like you can also just sort
• 37:36
  Speaker 2: of scan it.
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, I just, I, I went through the
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: first 10 pages pretty thoroughly in a few minutes.
• 37:42
  Speaker 2: And the details in there are insane. So, but back to,
• 37:48
  Speaker 2: I don't even know why I brought that up, but, uh,
• 37:50
  Speaker 2: back to the, this investigation, like, like we know all
• 37:55
  Speaker 2: of this stuff about the finders. Like, This one Tallahassee incident,
• 38:00
  Speaker 2: if this doesn't happen, I don't think we would probably
• 38:04
  Speaker 2: know anything about this group.
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: They slipped up.
• 38:08
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: That was a major slip on their end.
• 38:10
  Speaker 2: And you know it's a slip up because of the
• 38:14
  Speaker 2: things that happen next. Yeah. But the first thing that
• 38:18
  Speaker 2: happens is Tallahassee notifies Washington, D.C. because they, after looking
• 38:23
  Speaker 2: into the finders, realize they're located in Washington, D.C. So
• 38:28
  Speaker 2: they call DC Metro and Washington DC is like, yep,
• 38:31
  Speaker 2: we know all about him. A confidential informant actually came
• 38:35
  Speaker 2: to us a few weeks ago and was like, hey,
• 38:37
  Speaker 2: I think there's a sex cult operating in the DC area.
• 38:41
  Speaker 2: Might be buying and selling kids if you want to
• 38:43
  Speaker 2: look into that. And they were like, maybe.
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: They became aware of pretty recently.
• 38:47
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 38:47
  Speaker 2: They had also just sort of become aware of this group.
• 38:51
  Speaker 2: And which is crazy because this group was born out
• 38:54
  Speaker 2: of the human potential movement, which started in the 70s.
• 38:58
  Speaker 2: So they'd been in existence and probably in the DC
• 39:02
  Speaker 2: area for a while.
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: What's the name of the leader? Something Petty?
• 39:06
  Speaker 2: Morgan Petty.
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: Do we know his history?
• 39:09
  Speaker 2: That's what future episodes of this are going to be about.
• 39:12
  Speaker 2: He is, again, like the Laurel Canyon thing. It's just
• 39:16
  Speaker 2: a coincidence, obviously, that all of those famous rock stars
• 39:20
  Speaker 2: are military children. With Morgan Petty, we're supposed to take
• 39:25
  Speaker 2: his word that the fact that his wife worked for
• 39:29
  Speaker 2: the CIA and his son worked for Air America, which
• 39:32
  Speaker 2: was a famous CIA airline that basically ran drugs, we're
• 39:36
  Speaker 2: supposed to take that as just coincidence in that this
• 39:40
  Speaker 2: group has nothing to do with the CIA at all.
• 39:43
  Speaker 2: There are interviews with him I found some fascinating shit
• 39:47
  Speaker 2: about this guy and we'll get into it because that's
• 39:50
  Speaker 2: the thing. He doesn't even come up much in these
• 39:53
  Speaker 2: early investigations because as we'll find out, the investigation gets
• 39:58
  Speaker 2: shut down so quickly. And it's like, well, that's telling.
• 40:02
  Speaker 2: Why is that guy who started a cult and is
• 40:05
  Speaker 2: also married to someone in the CIA? Why did you investigate?
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: His people are carrying vans of sexually abused children, vans
• 40:12
  Speaker 1: of sexually abused children.
• 40:14
  Speaker 2: And it's, One of the things that comes out like
• 40:17
  Speaker 2: after Washington, D.C. hears from Tallahassee, they conduct these raids
• 40:22
  Speaker 2: on three different properties owned by the finders. There's a
• 40:26
  Speaker 2: farm and then there's a warehouse and then there's a
• 40:30
  Speaker 2: triplex that they own in Washington, D.C.
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: Are these in close proximity of each other? They're in
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: the same.
• 40:36
  Speaker 2: Well, they're all in D.C. and D.C. is not huge.
• 40:39
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 40:39
  Speaker 2: But the farm, I think, was in Virginia. Yeah. Yeah,
• 40:42
  Speaker 2: it makes sense.
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: Which is pretty much D.C.
• 40:43
  Speaker 2: That's still Washington, D.C. So all these different government agencies
• 40:47
  Speaker 2: get involved because now there's the potential that kids are
• 40:51
  Speaker 2: getting taken from overseas or taken overseas and these crimes
• 40:56
  Speaker 2: might cross federal and state lines. So the Customs Service
• 41:00
  Speaker 2: gets involved, the FBI gets involved, and the CIA gets
• 41:04
  Speaker 2: involved to some extent. But they're involved the least in
• 41:08
  Speaker 2: the actual investigation. No reason.
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: And I mean, you'd think that someone would want to
• 41:13
  Speaker 1: send someone to do damage control.
• 41:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah. And they sort of do like that's one of the.
• 41:18
  Speaker 1: But they have to be subtle about it.
• 41:20
  Speaker 2: That's that's one of the suggestions here is that at
• 41:23
  Speaker 2: one point someone goes, look, this is CIA matter, pal.
• 41:27
  Speaker 2: You need to back off. And people backed off like.
• 41:31
  Speaker 2: Do we remember any huge arrests of a global sex
• 41:35
  Speaker 2: trafficking ring in the 80s? I don't. So they launched
• 41:38
  Speaker 2: these three simultaneous raids and they remove from a warehouse
• 41:44
  Speaker 2: that was near one of the properties. They remove multiple
• 41:47
  Speaker 2: bags of photographs, computer records and documents. The photos are
• 41:52
  Speaker 2: especially questionable. Here is a quote from U.S. Customs spokesman
• 41:56
  Speaker 2: David Hoover speaking to the Washington Post in 1987. we're
• 42:00
  Speaker 2: not saying that it's pornographic, but it has all the earmarks.
• 42:04
  Speaker 2: And so he's like, we're not saying it, but it is. Yeah.
• 42:07
  Speaker 2: And another customs inspector who did a, what turns out
• 42:11
  Speaker 2: to be a really important report that I think was
• 42:14
  Speaker 2: just released as part of this FBI dump of files.
• 42:19
  Speaker 2: The implication is that they're naked, like they're pictures of
• 42:23
  Speaker 2: naked children. Yeah. And I mean, all the earmarks?
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 42:27
  Speaker 2: Like, that's an earmark. Yeah. That's all I really need. Yeah. Like,
• 42:31
  Speaker 2: if you have multiple pictures of even your own kids naked. Yeah,
• 42:35
  Speaker 2: one's plenty. Yeah.
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: One's plenty.
• 42:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah, one's a goof. Yeah. You caught your kid in
• 42:40
  Speaker 2: the bath. Also, still don't even put that on Facebook.
• 42:44
  Speaker 2: What are you doing? But.
• 42:46
  Speaker 1: I mean, like, it's like, but if you have, like, stacks.
• 42:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 42:49
  Speaker 1: And they're all different kids. It's like, well, there's a
• 42:51
  Speaker 1: little collection going on here. What's up?
• 42:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you have some explaining to do. Explaining. And there
• 42:59
  Speaker 2: were also several photos of children processing or slaughtering goats.
• 43:05
  Speaker 1: Ah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I remember reading that.
• 43:08
  Speaker 2: And several images depicting children involved in bloodletting ceremonies while
• 43:14
  Speaker 2: surrounded by men in white robes.
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: And it sounded ritualistic to me.
• 43:20
  Speaker 2: And this is in a U.S. Customs agent's report about
• 43:26
  Speaker 2: what they found. And that's the moment where I'm researching
• 43:30
  Speaker 2: this and I'm like, okay, was the satanic panic completely fake? Yeah.
• 43:36
  Speaker 2: because they also report finding a clearing behind one of
• 43:41
  Speaker 2: these homes. Yeah. That looked like it had been used for,
• 43:45
  Speaker 2: which was a thing people would say all the time
• 43:48
  Speaker 2: in the eighties. Like when they were like, Ooh, dungeons
• 43:50
  Speaker 2: and dragons. But also it's like the fucking clearings were
• 43:54
  Speaker 2: there with the rocks around them. Like why? Like why
• 43:57
  Speaker 2: were so many of those popping up? And it just,
• 44:00
  Speaker 2: those pictures, like in that initial, uh, investigation in 87
• 44:05
  Speaker 2: and all the newspaper articles around it, which. And fascinatingly enough,
• 44:09
  Speaker 2: you can just Google and still read all of the
• 44:13
  Speaker 2: Washington Post's coverage about this. This was a huge story. Oh, yeah.
• 44:17
  Speaker 1: You just sent me a link. And I actually didn't
• 44:20
  Speaker 1: realize it was from the 80s until I went back
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: and I saw the date. And I'm like, oh, this
• 44:25
  Speaker 1: is just readily available.
• 44:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, there's multiple. Was it even HTTPS?
• 44:30
  Speaker 1: Was it even secure? I don't know.
• 44:32
  Speaker 2: Probably not.
• 44:34
  Speaker 1: Don't put your credit card information in. Don't give them
• 44:36
  Speaker 1: to the finders.
• 44:37
  Speaker 2: Use code UNPOPS at checkout if you do, though. We
• 44:41
  Speaker 2: get a little 15% kickback from the finders.
• 44:43
  Speaker 1: Good way to track and see who's, you know.
• 44:45
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 44:45
  Speaker 2: Who's the finders now, right? So this U.S. Customs official,
• 44:51
  Speaker 2: his name's Ramon Martinez. He wrote the report that mentions
• 44:56
  Speaker 2: all of this crazy shit that he found. Also mentions
• 45:00
  Speaker 2: finding several documents about obtaining or purchasing children. Hmm. And
• 45:07
  Speaker 2: his report is.
• 45:08
  Speaker 1: I mean, that's hand in the cookie jar shit.
• 45:10
  Speaker 2: It really is. And you would think with all of that,
• 45:14
  Speaker 2: this would have become a bigger deal.
• 45:17
  Speaker 1: Unless... Unless.
• 45:19
  Speaker 2: There was someone at a really high level in government
• 45:23
  Speaker 2: because this investigation, customs investigates it. The FBI investigates it.
• 45:28
  Speaker 2: DC police look into it. Tallahassee police.
• 45:32
  Speaker 1: It's on the radar and then it disappears.
• 45:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah. And then eventually they just shut it down and
• 45:37
  Speaker 2: everyone's like, what? Like, what do you mean? But that
• 45:39
  Speaker 2: was the 80s. So what what the fuck were we
• 45:41
  Speaker 2: going to do? Go on the Internet and get mad
• 45:43
  Speaker 2: about it?
• 45:43
  Speaker 1: Not yet.
• 45:44
  Speaker 2: And so the Ramon Martinez files this report. And based
• 45:50
  Speaker 2: on all of this, especially customs and the D.C. police
• 45:54
  Speaker 2: are like, is this a child porn ring? or like
• 45:57
  Speaker 2: a child sex trafficking ring, which is something you obviously
• 46:02
  Speaker 2: want to investigate further and put a stop to if
• 46:05
  Speaker 2: you can. And then a really weird thing happens, as
• 46:09
  Speaker 2: if this isn't weird enough already. A few days after
• 46:12
  Speaker 2: the investigation starts, there's this student on the campus of
• 46:16
  Speaker 2: Florida State University.
• 46:17
  Speaker 1: In Tallahassee.
• 46:18
  Speaker 2: In Tallahassee, who just finds a computer in a phone booth.
• 46:22
  Speaker 2: And this is 87.
• 46:24
  Speaker 1: It's not like- So yeah, computers aren't laptops. They aren't
• 46:27
  Speaker 1: Air Mags.
• 46:27
  Speaker 2: This is like- Someone didn't drop their iPad.
• 46:29
  Speaker 1: There's a couple boxes full of shit.
• 46:31
  Speaker 2: It's heavy.
• 46:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 46:33
  Speaker 2: And not only do they find a computer- The 80s.
• 46:37
  Speaker 1: Was it the phone booth? Was the phone booth itself
• 46:39
  Speaker 1: a computer?
• 46:40
  Speaker 2: Probably, yeah. Did he mistake it as a phone booth? Yeah. Exactly.
• 46:44
  Speaker 1: Just the computer stacked on itself.
• 46:46
  Speaker 2: And this computer he finds unbeknownst to him, exactly like
• 46:51
  Speaker 2: the computer found in the van when they pulled those
• 46:54
  Speaker 2: two men over with those five kids. Same kind of computer. Okay.
• 46:59
  Speaker 2: And this student finds his computer and is like, free computer.
• 47:03
  Speaker 2: I'm going to go home and fuck around with this. Yeah.
• 47:06
  Speaker 2: And he takes it home and he finds all of
• 47:09
  Speaker 2: this like inside information about the Tallahassee police investigating the finders.
• 47:16
  Speaker 2: And it is never addressed how the person who owned
• 47:21
  Speaker 2: that computer had all this information about, About the Tallahassee
• 47:25
  Speaker 2: PD's police report.
• 47:26
  Speaker 1: Who initially owned the computer? Do we know that?
• 47:29
  Speaker 2: They just know it was someone who was tied to
• 47:33
  Speaker 2: the finders.
• 47:34
  Speaker 1: And it was left. I mean, if you leave something
• 47:37
  Speaker 1: like that in a phone booth, it's meant to be found.
• 47:39
  Speaker 2: Either that or, you know, the police are closing in
• 47:43
  Speaker 2: on you and you're fucking fleeing.
• 47:46
  Speaker 1: And you're just leaving your shit out in the open?
• 47:49
  Speaker 2: Well, you're probably not wanting to send... This is my
• 47:54
  Speaker 2: theory of how that computer ends up there.
• 47:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you have to haul it.
• 47:57
  Speaker 2: I think someone associated with the two men who were
• 48:02
  Speaker 2: arrested found out that they were arrested. And we know
• 48:05
  Speaker 2: these computers were used to communicate with each other, presumably
• 48:11
  Speaker 2: so they weren't having their phones tapped or having to
• 48:14
  Speaker 2: communicate in that way.
• 48:16
  Speaker 1: And they had internet access and modems.
• 48:19
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 48:19
  Speaker 1: Whatever they called it back then.
• 48:21
  Speaker 2: And the one thing you see in any TV show
• 48:24
  Speaker 2: or movie about organizations trying to avoid police detection, especially
• 48:28
  Speaker 2: in the 70s, 80s, 90s, they use pay phones.
• 48:30
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 48:31
  Speaker 2: So if you know that you're part of this huge
• 48:34
  Speaker 2: fucking child sex trafficking ring and it's like two of
• 48:38
  Speaker 2: your members just got arrested with five fucking kids in
• 48:42
  Speaker 2: a van. Yeah. You know, it's time. There's probably some
• 48:47
  Speaker 2: sort of like message that's going to go out on
• 48:50
  Speaker 2: that network of computers to say, all right, everyone fucking
• 48:53
  Speaker 2: shut it down. Go into hiding. Shit just got real.
• 48:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 48:58
  Speaker 2: And if you're sending that message, you're probably doing it
• 49:01
  Speaker 2: thinking like, all right, I need to get. the fuck
• 49:04
  Speaker 2: out of here right now. And either in a panic,
• 49:08
  Speaker 2: you leave the computer behind or you just don't want
• 49:10
  Speaker 2: to be bogged down by running away with it. Or also,
• 49:14
  Speaker 2: you know, that even if the police find it and
• 49:18
  Speaker 2: know that it's just an odd placement. Well, I think
• 49:23
  Speaker 2: they had to connect to the phone booth to... Oh, gotcha.
• 49:26
  Speaker 2: So they needed that phone line. They needed that line
• 49:30
  Speaker 2: that police wouldn't have tapped. Gotcha.
• 49:32
  Speaker 1: And then it's just like, fuck it, I gotta get
• 49:33
  Speaker 1: the fuck out of here.
• 49:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, because then if they find it connected to your
• 49:36
  Speaker 2: home phone or something or find that- It's traceable. A
• 49:39
  Speaker 2: call went through your home number, it's traceable. But if
• 49:42
  Speaker 2: they find it in the phone booth and the computer's
• 49:44
  Speaker 2: still there- Like, they might get your fingerprints or something,
• 49:47
  Speaker 2: but other than that, it's like, fuck you.
• 49:49
  Speaker 1: Can you imagine just, like, the kind of pressure you
• 49:51
  Speaker 1: must be under to haul that big-ass computer to a
• 49:54
  Speaker 1: phone booth and then assemble it?
• 49:56
  Speaker 2: That's the thing, too. It's like, you got to do
• 49:58
  Speaker 2: that without being detected.
• 49:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like, you're really slick.
• 50:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, people are... Your partners suck.
• 50:03
  Speaker 1: I mean, they got, like, you were able to take
• 50:05
  Speaker 1: a computer and reassemble it in a phone booth, which
• 50:09
  Speaker 1: is probably clear, and your partners are walking around with
• 50:12
  Speaker 1: five dirty kids, six dirty kids.
• 50:14
  Speaker 2: That's probably why sloppy. That's probably why they use the
• 50:19
  Speaker 2: campus of Florida state university because where else in the
• 50:24
  Speaker 2: eighties are a bunch of people going to be carrying
• 50:27
  Speaker 2: computers around then on the campus of Florida state university.
• 50:30
  Speaker 2: So you could very easily walk around with this newfangled
• 50:34
  Speaker 2: piece of equipment.
• 50:35
  Speaker 1: I'm a student play dumb.
• 50:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Like, you know, I'm a student or I'm like,
• 50:39
  Speaker 2: I fucking fix computers. What do you want kid? I'm
• 50:41
  Speaker 2: at a place where there's computers. Like, So that's, it's
• 50:44
  Speaker 2: not going to stand out. Yeah. And I actually just
• 50:46
  Speaker 2: thought about that. We're doing good work on this episode.
• 50:49
  Speaker 2: My God.
• 50:50
  Speaker 1: We're uncovering some stuff, putting two and two together, getting
• 50:54
  Speaker 1: four and shit.
• 50:55
  Speaker 2: Thinking like child sex traffickers. Look at us.
• 50:58
  Speaker 1: Well, you got to think like them to.
• 51:00
  Speaker 2: To podcast about them.
• 51:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I guess so.
• 51:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 51:03
  Speaker 1: You know, like. Yeah, I guess so.
• 51:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah.
• 51:05
  Speaker 1: Woof. We're trying to understand. Yeah.
• 51:07
  Speaker 2: But I, I do think that's probably, that probably explains
• 51:12
  Speaker 2: that phone, like that phone booth, why they use that
• 51:16
  Speaker 2: phone booth, because that's where, and then you just, then
• 51:18
  Speaker 2: you just leave that fucking computer and no one's ever
• 51:20
  Speaker 2: going to find you.
• 51:21
  Speaker 1: Cause all you have to do is pull the jack out. Right.
• 51:23
  Speaker 1: It's like, I mean, I don't know. I don't remember.
• 51:25
  Speaker 1: I don't even remember. But yeah, it was pretty simple.
• 51:28
  Speaker 2: Well, this was like, this was like free internet computers.
• 51:32
  Speaker 2: I mean, they had some version of the internet, obviously, but,
• 51:35
  Speaker 2: I don't know how this fucking thing worked.
• 51:37
  Speaker 1: And it's interesting that a commune would have access to
• 51:40
  Speaker 1: technology like this.
• 51:41
  Speaker 2: That's the thing. As you dig deeper into this cult,
• 51:45
  Speaker 2: that was part of their whole gig. They were a
• 51:48
  Speaker 2: computer technology cult.
• 51:50
  Speaker 1: And you don't think of men walking around in suits
• 51:53
  Speaker 1: slaughtering goats.
• 51:55
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 51:55
  Speaker 1: You know, it's a little odd. Yeah.
• 51:57
  Speaker 2: It's the 80s. And what better way to get people
• 52:03
  Speaker 2: into the fold just so you can be in front
• 52:06
  Speaker 2: of them and talk to them, especially if you're trying
• 52:09
  Speaker 2: to get rich, influential people. If you not only have
• 52:13
  Speaker 2: access to all of this computer technology, but know how
• 52:16
  Speaker 2: to use it and know how to harness it and
• 52:19
  Speaker 2: can get in front of a rich person and be like, man,
• 52:21
  Speaker 2: you wouldn't believe the shit you can accomplish with a computer.
• 52:24
  Speaker 2: I'll show you how to use one. Yeah. And next
• 52:27
  Speaker 2: thing you know, you're in the finders helping them traffic
• 52:30
  Speaker 2: kids to China. And like- Like you were recruited. Like
• 52:33
  Speaker 2: we know that the NXIVM cult that was just uncovered,
• 52:37
  Speaker 2: what the fuck was that? Like that was mostly rich,
• 52:41
  Speaker 2: successful people who were just looking for something else in life.
• 52:45
  Speaker 2: They were so fucking smart.
• 52:47
  Speaker 1: And so bored.
• 52:48
  Speaker 2: And so bored with everyone in their life that they're like.
• 52:51
  Speaker 1: Too much power and nothing to do with it is dangerous. Right.
• 52:54
  Speaker 2: And like, that's how rich people get- defrauded out of
• 52:58
  Speaker 2: their money because they think they're so smart. And well,
• 53:01
  Speaker 2: I would identify this person as a fraud if they
• 53:03
  Speaker 2: were a fraud. And it's like, no, you're not that smart.
• 53:05
  Speaker 2: You're just bored. And they know that and they're taking
• 53:08
  Speaker 2: advantage of it. Like computers in the 80s would be
• 53:11
  Speaker 2: a great fucking way to get in with rich people.
• 53:14
  Speaker 2: Like that's pretty brilliant. And that's what this group did.
• 53:19
  Speaker 2: They were like, they would go around... travel around the
• 53:22
  Speaker 2: world like when we get into talking about marion petty
• 53:26
  Speaker 2: and the game caller that's uh what they called him
• 53:29
  Speaker 2: he would they called him the game caller because.
• 53:32
  Speaker 1: The leader of the finders right yeah they called.
• 53:35
  Speaker 2: Him that because these people would wake up and be
• 53:37
  Speaker 2: like all right what do you need us to do
• 53:40
  Speaker 2: today and he'd be like uh go make a hundred
• 53:43
  Speaker 2: dollars he's a shot caller yeah And it wouldn't be about, well,
• 53:48
  Speaker 2: we need $ 100. It would be about, well, get out
• 53:51
  Speaker 2: there in the world, leave the house right now with
• 53:54
  Speaker 2: nothing to your name and come home with $ 100. Like
• 53:58
  Speaker 2: whatever you got to do, fucking do it. And that
• 54:01
  Speaker 2: if you're putting young people and developing minds through shit
• 54:05
  Speaker 2: like that. Like you're doing that for a purpose. You're
• 54:07
  Speaker 2: doing that to train people.
• 54:09
  Speaker 1: And the term game finder there, we have the word
• 54:11
  Speaker 1: game in there and you're talking to children. So that
• 54:14
  Speaker 1: is one way to, you know, I think in the
• 54:17
  Speaker 1: second article that you sent me, it was revealed that
• 54:21
  Speaker 1: his explanation for the goat sacrifices and the bloodletting was
• 54:26
  Speaker 1: the goats were troublesome and we wanted to make it
• 54:28
  Speaker 1: a game for the kids. And so we could, you know, sacrifice,
• 54:32
  Speaker 1: you Right. Kill the goats and then eat them later.
• 54:34
  Speaker 1: And the bloodletting, you know, maybe something for theatrics. But
• 54:37
  Speaker 1: it's just like, again, these this seems very adult.
• 54:41
  Speaker 2: Very adult. You know, so it's it's it's it's.
• 54:45
  Speaker 1: And a manipulation technique. Like, why are you playing these
• 54:48
  Speaker 1: type of games with kids?
• 54:49
  Speaker 2: Right. And so they find this phone booth computer. Yeah.
• 54:54
  Speaker 2: And shortly after that happens, another DC Metro cop reveals
• 54:59
  Speaker 2: that another thing they found in that warehouse, a bunch
• 55:02
  Speaker 2: of books about mind control. So now it's like, what
• 55:05
  Speaker 2: the fuck is this?
• 55:06
  Speaker 1: Is this DC cop a whistleblower?
• 55:09
  Speaker 2: No, that's one of the weird and kind of unfortunate
• 55:12
  Speaker 2: things that you get to later in this is there's
• 55:16
  Speaker 2: these couple of cops who are like, yeah, we found
• 55:18
  Speaker 2: all this like possible child porn shit. We found stuff
• 55:22
  Speaker 2: about buying kids. We found mind control books. And then
• 55:25
  Speaker 2: at one point, all that evidence disappears. They turn it
• 55:29
  Speaker 2: over to, I think, DC police. And eventually DC police
• 55:35
  Speaker 2: are like, there's none of that in the evidence you
• 55:38
  Speaker 2: gave us. And that was Ramon Martinez who turned all
• 55:41
  Speaker 2: that evidence over and was like, all right, I'm trusting
• 55:44
  Speaker 2: you to take this and do the right thing with it.
• 55:47
  Speaker 2: And then when he went back to access it later,
• 55:50
  Speaker 2: they were like, It doesn't exist. We've never heard any
• 55:52
  Speaker 2: of that, which that's strange as fuck.
• 55:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 55:58
  Speaker 2: All of the incriminating evidence just goes away.
• 56:01
  Speaker 1: Then you saw it. He saw it himself.
• 56:03
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 56:04
  Speaker 1: It was in his hands and now it doesn't exist. Hmm.
• 56:06
  Speaker 2: And a, uh, the next day, a Virginia investigator with
• 56:10
  Speaker 2: knowledge of the group, this is the part where Mary
• 56:13
  Speaker 2: and Petty finally comes into, uh, the story. Uh, there's
• 56:18
  Speaker 2: this Virginia cop who has, some, uh, familiarity with the finders.
• 56:23
  Speaker 2: And he's like, uh, Hey, if you get too close
• 56:26
  Speaker 2: to Marion Petty, he is going to go to Andrew's
• 56:29
  Speaker 2: air force base and get on a military plane and
• 56:33
  Speaker 2: fly to China. And I feel like that was that
• 56:36
  Speaker 2: investigator being like, all right, let me say that again. Slowly.
• 56:41
  Speaker 2: He's going to get on a military plane and fly
• 56:46
  Speaker 2: to China. Uh, How would you have access to a
• 56:50
  Speaker 2: military plane?
• 56:52
  Speaker 1: And I'd like to also point out that a piece
• 56:54
  Speaker 1: of evidence found in the truck was a Chinese dictionary.
• 56:58
  Speaker 2: Chinese to English translation dictionary. Also, one of the girls,
• 57:03
  Speaker 2: the girl who could communicate when she was interviewed by police,
• 57:07
  Speaker 2: claimed a Chinese man who she only knew as Chinese man.
• 57:11
  Speaker 2: Way to be racist, kid.
• 57:12
  Speaker 1: That was the 80s.
• 57:14
  Speaker 2: Taught her to count to 10 in Chinese. And then
• 57:17
  Speaker 2: she counted to 10 in Chinese for this cop. And
• 57:20
  Speaker 2: after all of that, all of this evidence and speculation
• 57:25
  Speaker 2: and suggestion that these people are taking kids to and
• 57:29
  Speaker 2: from other countries for possibly unsavory purposes, the investigation gets
• 57:35
  Speaker 2: shut down. It is determined that no laws are broken,
• 57:39
  Speaker 2: no federal laws, no state laws. No children have been abused.
• 57:44
  Speaker 2: And the investigation just gets shut down.
• 57:46
  Speaker 1: And in the article, they soften the language significantly from cult.
• 57:53
  Speaker 2: They describe these people as living an alternative lifestyle. And
• 57:59
  Speaker 2: there's even a cult expert who is interviewed and is like,
• 58:02
  Speaker 2: these people aren't a cult. They're trying to help people.
• 58:05
  Speaker 2: They're described as liberals all the time. They're described as
• 58:09
  Speaker 2: women who want to help people. And it's like, you sure?
• 58:14
  Speaker 1: I mean, what happened to all the other, you know,
• 58:16
  Speaker 1: the evidence in the contour, you know? Yeah. What about
• 58:20
  Speaker 1: the dirty kids?
• 58:21
  Speaker 2: The dirty kids, the fact that they were only eating
• 58:24
  Speaker 2: raw fruits and vegetables, the fact that most of them
• 58:27
  Speaker 2: didn't know what indoor plumbing or electricity was, like the
• 58:31
  Speaker 2: bug bites. It's documented. There's so many documented things that happened.
• 58:36
  Speaker 2: And then this investigation just got shut down. And for
• 58:39
  Speaker 2: the longest time, that's kind of where the story ended.
• 58:43
  Speaker 2: And then these FBI files come out at the end
• 58:46
  Speaker 2: of October or end of last month.
• 58:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 58:50
  Speaker 2: And, oh man, there is so much more to this
• 58:54
  Speaker 2: fucking story. For one thing, it picks up again in 1993,
• 58:59
  Speaker 2: which will be the next episode of this, where the
• 59:03
  Speaker 2: investigation starts all over again. And- again, just sort of
• 59:09
  Speaker 2: goes nuts. nowhere. But these FBI documents, they reveal a
• 59:14
  Speaker 2: lot of crazy things about just this time period. And
• 59:19
  Speaker 2: the thing about what we said earlier about this, uh,
• 59:22
  Speaker 2: having some pizza gate vibes to it. One of the
• 59:25
  Speaker 2: things that this is in the fucking official FBI documents,
• 59:29
  Speaker 2: there is a drawing of this fucking building in the
• 59:33
  Speaker 2: FBI documents. Uh, one of the things that they turned
• 59:37
  Speaker 2: up or one of the things they found in that
• 59:39
  Speaker 2: initial raid back in 87, a preschool tied to the
• 59:44
  Speaker 2: group was discovered in the DC area. It had two tunnels,
• 59:48
  Speaker 2: one of them extending all the way to the front
• 59:50
  Speaker 2: yard of the triplex next door, which the finders also owned.
• 59:55
  Speaker 2: The entrance to the tunnel in that front yard was
• 59:58
  Speaker 2: obscured from public view by a three-car garage and a
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 2: hole was discovered in the bathroom floor of one of
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 2: the apartments that possibly connected with those tunnels in the
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 2: preschool next door, but it had since been filled in.
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 2: And that school was outfitted with a fire alarm system
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 2: that could be triggered by any of a series of
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 2: light switches, but the alarm did not connect to the
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 2: local fire department. It was just an internal alarm. Like
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 2: as if it was like, shit's going down, run. Yeah.
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 2: Hit those fucking tunnels. go to the triplex, leave through
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 2: the front yard.
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 1: Red flags galore.
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 2: And when the police were finally able to talk to
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 2: more of these kids, they all described going in and
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 2: out of a tunnel entrance that was exactly where the
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 2: police found it. So that feels like some satanic panic shit.
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 2: Like that feels like a preschool set up solely for
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 2: ritualistic shit.
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 1: Well, you're doing something with the kids.
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 2: You're definitely doing something with the kids.
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 1: That's not regular school.
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 2: They also found a small white plastic plate with three
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 2: pentagrams on it in the dirt near the children's play area.
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 1: There's the Satan ritual stuff.
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 2: And then there's the pictures. There are pictures of these
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 2: kids we mentioned earlier, like slaughtering goats and bloodletting ceremonies.
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 2: And one of the moms eventually shows up and testifies
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 2: about that. And this is what she said. This is
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 2: the shit that gets this investigation shut down and they
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 2: determine everything's normal. This is verbatim. from the FBI files.
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 2: The pictures of the children with slaughtered goats was not
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 2: a ritual sacrifice, but rather an attempt at a hands-on experience.
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 2: One mother, who wasn't sure that the ordeal was necessary
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 2: or that she approved, she indicated that only the three
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 2: men were present at the time, thought that the experience
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 2: was well-intentioned as a experience for the children to learn.
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 2: She likened the slaughter to that of what is done
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 2: in conventional biology classes. Several mothers indicated that the robes
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 2: being worn by the men were actually sheets the men
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 2: wore during the slaughter to protect their clothing. The slaughter
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 2: of the two goats on the Virginia farm was at
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 2: the end of the summer and the goats couldn't be
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 2: left there alive. The meat from the goats was taken
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 2: back to Washington, D.C. to the group where they ate
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 2: the meat. The children had the experience to see where
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 2: meat comes from, an experience that most children don't get
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 2: while they are growing up. I don't fucking believe that.
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 1: Well, especially if the goats were initially pets. Right. That's traumatizing.
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 2: And, and like, what does the goats were problematic or
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 2: the goats were troublesome? Like, what does that mean? Like
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 2: they just like became a burden because then that does imply, well,
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 2: they used to be pets. And so we had the
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 2: kids kill those pets and it's like, that's not a
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 2: hands-on experience. That's not normal. You're doing something fucking weird. Yeah.
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's, it's some people would say it's murder. Yeah.
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 1: Animal abuse. And they ate the meat or they say
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 1: they ate the meat, but there's no way to track that.
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 2: And it's happening at a time when all of the
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 2: country is up in arms about. satanic abuse at fucking daycares.
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 2: And now there's this fucking police investigation with all these
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 2: fucking tunnels and warning systems and tunnels that lead to
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 2: an escape next door.
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 1: I mean, a fire alarm that's only internal, not connected
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 1: to any department, like local fire department. That's crazy. That's
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 1: very suspect.
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 2: It's super suspect.
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 1: To say the least.
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 2: And- But by far the craziest detail to come out
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 2: of that FBI file. I mean, this isn't the craziest,
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 2: but the revelation that as far back as 1987, which
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 2: was a few days after the Tallahassee incident, there was
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 2: already talk of the finders having some sort of connection
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 2: to the CIA. The files you mentioned that start in 93. Yeah.
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 2: I think they open by saying, we want the Department
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 2: of Justice to open an inquiry and into whether United
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 2: States intelligence used the finders as part of a like
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 2: global sex trafficking scheme. Yeah.
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 1: There is some finger pointing at, um, at intern. That's
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 1: why I was asking you earlier, is this internal is
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 1: one group looking at another and there's always sort of this,
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 1: I wouldn't call it maybe a competition between FBI and
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 1: was it CIA?
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 2: It was CIA. That's what, that's what happened. Like one
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 2: of the, documents from 1987 that is most interesting this
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 2: one that talks about cia involvement one of the customs
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 2: agents managed to talk to the cia and i think
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 2: it was ramon martinez and he talks to the cia
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 2: and they tell him that this uh woman who worked
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 2: at the cia was also a member of the finders
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 2: And it just so happened that in her last couple
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 2: of years with the CIA, which also overlapped with her
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 2: years in the Finders, she traveled to Moscow, North Korea,
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 2: and North Vietnam. This is between 69 and 71, when
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 2: we were fucking at war in Vietnam. And the customs
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 2: agent is like, this is in his report. He says
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 2: to the CIA agent, well, you know, only you could
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 2: have arranged that. Like no American could get to travel agent.
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 1: You can't just vacation in North.
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah. You can't just go to North Vietnam when we're
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 2: at war with North Vietnam. Like only you could have arranged.
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 1: That Delta is not flying in there.
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 2: And the CIA was like, yeah. Huh? And, and just
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 2: like left it at that. Like they, they kind of
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 2: like stonewalled him and we're like, yeah, somewhat like we
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 2: knew about this group. Uh, someone related to us traveled
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 2: to these countries on their behalf. What of it? What
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 2: are you going to do about it? And the answer
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 2: was nothing like this. The investigation in 1987 gets fucking
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 2: shut down and it's determined that no crimes were committed.
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 1: So it was a very short lived investigation.
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 2: It lasted like a week, I think. Like it took
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 2: like seven to 10 days for between all of this
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 2: evidence of a potentially global child trafficking ring to be uncovered.
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 2: We went from that in like the span of seven
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 2: to 10 days to going, it's nothing. Don't worry about it.
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 1: And we don't know what happened to these two men
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 1: that were found in Tallahassee.
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 2: I think they. They were arrested and they went on trial.
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 2: I think they eventually like were convicted of like misdemeanor
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 2: child abuse or something, but nothing that major. And one
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 2: of the, I think the, we'll end on this because
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 2: the 1993 stuff is a whole other episode.
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 1: Well, it resurfaces.
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 1: Everything just pops right back up. And so it's like, well,
• 1:07:08
  Speaker 1: what happened then? And really what happened last month where
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 1: it's back again? Right.
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 2: And I found a thing that I haven't seen mentioned.
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 2: I'll save it for the next episode, but I haven't
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 2: seen it mentioned in any of these articles in any
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 2: of these documentaries. And I'm going to dig into it
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 2: more because I don't, I don't even, I'm not 100%
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 2: sure what I'm seeing, but we know this 87 investigation happens. Uh,
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 2: we know it pops up again in 93 and when
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 2: it pops up again in 93, uh, the finders are
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 2: like the people who are responsible for speaking for them
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 2: are like, we've never been associated with the government. Like why?
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 2: Like this is like our leader. He fucking tells stories.
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 2: He's the game caller.
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 1: And like, there's a lot of emphasis I think on
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 1: humor and sort of defending their practices. It's like, well,
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 1: we like to have fun and we're funny. This is
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 1: supposed to be funny. I can see how it's not
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 1: funny to you, but like, it's supposed to be funny.
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 1: And like, you know, as comedians, I'm like, I'm still
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 1: trying to figure out how what they were doing is funny.
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 2: Right. And one of the first things that comes up
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 2: in the, I actually tweeted a screenshot of this. If
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 2: you go out to my Twitter, you'll see it. It's
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 2: a screenshot of the end of Ramon Martinez's report, which
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 2: we'll talk about in detail in the 1993 episode, but
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 2: he's like, basically, I think the CIA was using the
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 2: finders to distribute misinformation, like as a, a, a means
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 2: of distributing information. And all these 93 investigations happen and
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 2: the finders are like, nah, we've never been associated with
• 1:08:52
  Speaker 2: the government at all. Well, in researching this yesterday, and
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 2: I need to look into it more to know exactly
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 2: what it is, but the founder of the Finders is
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 2: on a 1991 congressional directory. And the section he's in is...
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 2: a section about approved media sources and approved media outlets.
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 2: So on the one hand, you have this guy saying, Hey,
• 1:09:18
  Speaker 2: the CIA is using this fucking sex cult to distribute
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 2: information of some sort. And on the other side, to
• 1:09:27
  Speaker 2: the masses, to the, I don't know, like he doesn't, yeah,
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 2: he doesn't specify, doesn't specify. And then on the other side,
• 1:09:34
  Speaker 2: you have the CIA and the finders being like, no,
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 2: there was never any relationship there. And then right in
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 2: the middle of that, you have the founder of this
• 1:09:43
  Speaker 2: group on a fucking congressional directory of approved media outlets
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 2: and reporters like Mr.
• 1:09:50
  Speaker 1: Petty.
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 2: How does he get from being investigated for possible child
• 1:09:57
  Speaker 2: sex trafficking in 87 to the goddamn congressional directory in 1991?
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 2: That is what I want to find out and look
• 1:10:06
  Speaker 2: into on the next episode.
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 1: Sounds like he has a lot of friends in high places.
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 2: It sure does. And speaking of that, the last line
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 2: from the document that brought up CIA involvement in 1987,
• 1:10:20
  Speaker 2: this could explain a lot about the group's funding, which
• 1:10:22
  Speaker 2: we have been unable to document to this point. So
• 1:10:26
  Speaker 2: despite all the shit they found in this investigation in 87,
• 1:10:31
  Speaker 2: nothing saying where they're getting the money from. to jet
• 1:10:34
  Speaker 2: set around the world and own all these properties. Where
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 2: is that money coming from? Yeah. Yeah.
• 1:10:41
  Speaker 1: I mean, you can't trace the money. It might be
• 1:10:44
  Speaker 1: some like funny business, you know, but, and if you're not,
• 1:10:48
  Speaker 1: if you're, you know, if you're able to get away
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 1: with that, no one's saying anything.
• 1:10:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah. And it, It feels like this is another thing
• 1:10:56
  Speaker 2: where we all think about the satanic panic now and
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 2: laugh about it because a lot of it was crazy.
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 2: But also, did the CIA start that in case we
• 1:11:06
  Speaker 2: ever found out about this? So they could be like,
• 1:11:09
  Speaker 2: come on, that's satanic panic shit. Get the fuck out
• 1:11:11
  Speaker 2: of here. And it's like, yeah, it is. But also.
• 1:11:14
  Speaker 2: There's pictures, man. Yeah. We got the receipts. There's FBI documents.
• 1:11:19
  Speaker 1: There's a connection between the two. And I mean, his wife, Mr. Petty,
• 1:11:23
  Speaker 1: I don't remember his first name, but that Petty dude,
• 1:11:25
  Speaker 1: his wife- Marion.
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 2: I think I was calling him Morgan for a lot
• 1:11:28
  Speaker 2: of this, but I think it's Marion.
• 1:11:30
  Speaker 1: His wife and son, you said, were- high up there.
• 1:11:34
  Speaker 2: They're involved in the CIA. And this is a, like,
• 1:11:37
  Speaker 2: this is a group that's tied in. Like a lot
• 1:11:39
  Speaker 2: of their beliefs are new age beliefs, which we've talked
• 1:11:41
  Speaker 2: about before, uh, as being possibly like a satanic thing.
• 1:11:46
  Speaker 2: And it's like, I don't know what to believe anymore.
• 1:11:48
  Speaker 2: Like what's happening in the fucking world.
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, I'm, I'm always curious as to how
• 1:11:54
  Speaker 1: organized everything is, you know, it's cause everyone has their
• 1:11:58
  Speaker 1: own motives, but how organized are these, are these powerful people,
• 1:12:02
  Speaker 1: powerful entities?
• 1:12:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah. And it's like, you clearly, like you obviously have
• 1:12:08
  Speaker 2: to be very organized to pull off a global trafficking ring,
• 1:12:12
  Speaker 2: but we know those things happen. Like we know there
• 1:12:15
  Speaker 2: are organizations out there doing it.
• 1:12:17
  Speaker 1: My cousin was telling me in Texas and Dallas, There
• 1:12:21
  Speaker 1: was a woman whose kid was just snatched right from her,
• 1:12:25
  Speaker 1: just snatched and pulled into a car.
• 1:12:26
  Speaker 2: I saw a surveillance video. I think this was in California,
• 1:12:30
  Speaker 2: but a woman was at the store with her child
• 1:12:33
  Speaker 2: and the front door of the store was like just
• 1:12:36
  Speaker 2: a little propped open. And this guy just fucking reached
• 1:12:39
  Speaker 2: in and grabbed her daughter and tried to run. And
• 1:12:42
  Speaker 2: like they caught him and beat the shit out of him.
• 1:12:45
  Speaker 2: But that's pretty fucking brazen.
• 1:12:47
  Speaker 1: And so what, did they get any information from him?
• 1:12:50
  Speaker 2: I mean, you know, I guess the assumption is just
• 1:12:54
  Speaker 2: he was, you know, a bad dude who wanted to
• 1:12:57
  Speaker 2: snatch a kid.
• 1:12:58
  Speaker 1: But it's just like someone like that, you know, if
• 1:13:01
  Speaker 1: they are tied to a larger organization, that can be
• 1:13:04
  Speaker 1: access to a lot of information.
• 1:13:06
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 1:13:06
  Speaker 1: You know, and it's just like, I feel like that's
• 1:13:08
  Speaker 1: something you have to look into if you're just randomly
• 1:13:11
  Speaker 1: snatching kids.
• 1:13:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and that... This like, there will be so many
• 1:13:16
  Speaker 2: more episodes about this. I cannot believe I found, I
• 1:13:19
  Speaker 2: didn't want to say, I feel like there's another thing
• 1:13:22
  Speaker 2: I found that I feel like no one has addressed
• 1:13:25
  Speaker 2: when it comes to this theory that I also want
• 1:13:27
  Speaker 2: to talk about on the next episode. I also found
• 1:13:29
  Speaker 2: a book written by one of the followers of this
• 1:13:32
  Speaker 2: dude about, uh, the game. It's called the game caller.
• 1:13:36
  Speaker 1: Where did you find the book?
• 1:13:38
  Speaker 2: On fucking google books like.
• 1:13:40
  Speaker 3: Oh you can read it online yeah wow yeah it
• 1:13:44
  Speaker 3: was a weird time and there's so many like conspiracy
• 1:13:48
  Speaker 3: theories about that wave of child kidnappings yeah and like
• 1:13:53
  Speaker 3: they range from uh really crazy to aliens and satanists
• 1:13:58
  Speaker 3: to uh just kidnappers man who knows.
• 1:14:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah There's a lot to look at.
• 1:14:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah. But we will be back in a week or two.
• 1:14:08
  Speaker 2: I don't know what's going up next week, but you're
• 1:14:11
  Speaker 2: going to do the 1993 episode with me, I hope, also.
• 1:14:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:14:14
  Speaker 2: I don't know if we have time to do it today.
• 1:14:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, we'll definitely get her done. Yeah.
• 1:14:19
  Speaker 2: But we will dig into the rest of this Finder
• 1:14:25
  Speaker 2: shit in a lot of detail in the future, not
• 1:14:28
  Speaker 2: just on Conspiracy the Show, but on this network in general. Uh,
• 1:14:32
  Speaker 2: I think me and, uh, Caitlin cut are going to
• 1:14:33
  Speaker 2: do a whole episode just about the founder of the fight.
• 1:14:37
  Speaker 2: He is a fascinating figure.
• 1:14:39
  Speaker 1: Hell yeah.
• 1:14:40
  Speaker 2: And I need to know more about him in a
• 1:14:42
  Speaker 2: way that doesn't get me murdered by the CIA, CIA, preferably.
• 1:14:45
  Speaker 1: Well, it's always sort of towing the line.
• 1:14:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:14:48
  Speaker 1: Towing the line of not getting murdered and getting murdered.
• 1:14:50
  Speaker 2: That's what we do here. Uh, that should be the
• 1:14:54
  Speaker 2: motto of this podcast until then. What do we have
• 1:14:58
  Speaker 2: to plug? Before we get out of here, patreon.com slash unpops.
• 1:15:01
  Speaker 2: You can get bonus episodes of this podcast and all
• 1:15:05
  Speaker 2: the other podcasts that I co-host. So check that shit out. Uh,
• 1:15:10
  Speaker 2: that's all I got.
• 1:15:11
  Speaker 1: Hell yeah. And, uh, You can stay in touch with
• 1:15:14
  Speaker 1: me on Instagram, Twitter. It's just my name, Fizza Dasani, F-I-Z-Z-A-A-D-O-S-A-N-I.
• 1:15:21
  Speaker 1: And check out my website, thatname.com, fizzadasani.com. And I have
• 1:15:27
  Speaker 1: a tour, a national tour and a weekly podcast called
• 1:15:30
  Speaker 1: Facial Recognition Comedy. facialrecognitioncomedy.com and we have a monthly residency
• 1:15:35
  Speaker 1: here in LA the second Sunday of every month at
• 1:15:41
  Speaker 1: oh and we have a show in New York we
• 1:15:44
  Speaker 1: have a monthly show in New York but with the
• 1:15:45
  Speaker 1: holidays the timing's a little wonky December 20th at 11.30pm
• 1:15:50
  Speaker 1: at New York Comedy.
• 1:15:51
  Speaker 2: Club Christmas in New York is dope I.
• 1:15:54
  Speaker 1: Know that's what I'm hearing so New York listeners.
• 1:15:57
  Speaker 2: Come out come hang alright let's get the fuck out
• 1:16:00
  Speaker 2: of here Fizza say goodbye See y'all. Goodbye, everybody. We
• 1:16:03
  Speaker 2: love you. Stop kidnapping kids.