Latest / Found-HER with Kimberley Hiebert / Keep the Peace. Lose the Money.

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Keep the Peace. Lose the Money. · Found-HER with Kimberley Hiebert

• 0:04
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, welcome uh Karen Stewart to the Found Her Podcast.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_01: Besties, we are gonna get really, really what do I want to say direct?
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_01: This is gonna be a conversation that might challenge you, uh, but I really want you listening on how the things we're about to talk about with Karen Stewart.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_01: I will let her tell all the goodness that she is.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_01: I just want to set it up by this saying this.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_01: I saw Karen speak on a panel last spring.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_01: And when I saw her, uh, how she navigated the questions and really the passion she has for women, I know you're probably wondering what it's about.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, I need to get in touch with that lady.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_01: I need to be connected with her.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_01: She is so passionate and so certain on a woman's role in managing their life, their finances, their business.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_01: She is a serial entrepreneur.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I think you've, Karen, what I know, what I'm most familiar with is you're the, I think the founder of Fairway Divorce.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_01: Is that correct?
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_01: So, Karen, welcome to the Found Her podcast.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_01: We're really excited to have you here.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just wondering if you could tell everybody else a little more eloquently about you.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_01: Give it a little more context.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I'll just sort of say I I it's always hard to kind of, you know, especially at this age of the end of the game where, you know, you're a bit older and you try and pigeonhole yourself.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_00: But I would say I'm a serial entrepreneur.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_00: I've started eight companies, I've sold five, everything from an insurance company, stockbroking firm.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_00: That was kind of my first uh, you know, 20 years, and then founded Fairway Divor Solutions and stepped down from that uh and sold the majority a year ago.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_00: So serial entrepreneur for sure.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_00: I identify with that.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_00: I'm also an author.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_00: I've written a number of books in the area of divorce, uh, one bestseller, and that was really to support the the disruption that was it I felt needed to happen within the divorce industry.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_00: And then I'm an adventure.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_00: I do, I do really extreme things like I'm going to the Antarctica to uh skin up glaciers and ski down.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_00: I've done a lot of the I haven't done Everest uh to the peak, but I've done Base Camp, I've done Anapurna Base Camp.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm kind of um I, you know, I would have used to identify as an adrenaline junkie, but I'm too old now to do that.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_00: So I sort of identify as an adventurer, but certainly more extreme than um most people would.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like you said, I'm super passionate pretty much about everything I do, including being a mom.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_01: And so I love this.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_01: What what got you not what got you started in business, but what made you like dial in on really being an advocate for women in decision making, in business, and exit building your business, exiting it.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_01: Like you have a real, I think it's tied to your personal story a little bit.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_01: And so can you share a little bit about that?
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I uh uh yeah, I have lots to say about that.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_00: So let me try and be as concise as uh as as I can.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_00: I in in a number of my businesses, one running a stockbroking firm and managing people's assets, and then of course running a uh divorce, a national divorce company, I got to witness uh women specifically and how they were dealing with money.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_00: And one of my pet peeves was is that they would often give up dollars in order to keep the peace.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_00: And you just did not see that on the male side of the equation, and that didn't even matter um if it was, you know, a happy couple negotiating, you know, talking about their assets and their wealth management.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_00: So that was a bit of a aha for me.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um, being that the reason I started fairway was I went through a very messy five-year million dollar plus legal fee, divorced myself.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_00: And that was really the impetus to uh, you know, do what I could to disrupt the status quo the way divorce was done.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_00: And I found myself at the end of divorce.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I got my company, which is great.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_00: I I got the you know, um, my kids, which was great, but I ended up with a$500,000 CRA bill.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_00: And from that moment on, before then, I had I had been successful at a very young age financially.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_00: I was very lucky.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_00: I got into the financial world at a very uh good time and it was very prosperous.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but then I always kind of measured my wealth on, you know, how big is my company, you know, how many houses do I have?
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_00: And that's not a bad thing.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_00: But as soon as I went through that divorce, I shifted and I made the decision that my measurement was my personal net worth.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_00: And since that time, which is like 2005, so we're talking 21 years ago, more than that the actual divorce was finalized.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_00: It was 25 years ago that we got to whether we parted ways from that moment on, and plus I had to rebuild.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it was like I I am so disciplined.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_00: Every quarter I sit down and I measure my net worth, and it's my net worth.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_00: It's not I'm I am married now that uh to somebody, you know, later in life, yeah, but it's not his and mine combined, it's mine.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_00: So if we have a house, it's half the house.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_00: If we own a car together, it's half the car.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_00: So I measure mine, and that is super empowering, but it's also real.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_00: And an interesting note for female entrepreneurs.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_00: So I so you know, I'm passionate about everybody and I'm passionate about guys too, but but here's an interesting, here's an interesting fact is is that entrepreneurs, uh, 80% of our wealth as entrepreneurs is in our company.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, less than 20% of companies exit.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_00: So that means we're busting our buns 24-7, sacrificing, sacrificing, sacrificing to build these companies.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_00: And again, that's a whole other conversation.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_00: Why are we so driven to build?
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's a bit of a different pair, a wrong paradigm.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_00: We really need to be build building for ultimately uh personal wealth and freedom.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_00: Because whether you have a billion dollars in the bank, a hundred you know, million or ten thousand or a hundred thousand or million, it doesn't matter if you don't have personal freedom.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_00: And that's right, so freedom is actually is actually what the ultimate goal is.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_00: And on the way the world works is you need money to be free.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_00: So it kind of all works in a very holistic approach, but um, really getting women to step out of that paradigm.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_00: The other thing is I've had the since I've sold my companies, I've worked as a little bit in the coaching area um with a number of different people, and I just find women make decisions, approach life, communicate in a different way.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_00: And I love the fact that women are starting to build communities that are centered on business building and wealth versus just other sort of personal things.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so I you said so much there, and I think this is what reminded me when I uh saw you speak on the panel.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_01: The fact that you make this date every quarter that you to review your own personal net worth.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_01: Because this is an interesting, funny story.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um, years ago, a number of years ago, my husband and I, our mortgage came out for renewal.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_01: And we had this is our fourth business, the franchise that we're building, the franchise system is our fourth business.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_01: So at that point, we had three businesses.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_01: I think I may have been working still as a social worker, like in kind of a government job.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and we went to renew our mortgage, and uh, we didn't actually qualify for the renewal of the mortgage.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_01: It was hilarious because we're the the bankers like uh you don't have anything personally, like everything, all of our wealth, all of our everything, the properties, the insurances, like every cash, all of it, all of it was the majority of it was held in the companies.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_01: And so um it was a little bit of a surprise.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, so this is like yeah, quite a while, 20 plus years ago.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_01: But for then for me, it was quite a I was like, oh, they aren't one and the same.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_01: So you kind of get this feeling, and then fast forward years later, I get sick.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_01: 10 years ago, I got diagnosed with breast cancer.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_01: And guess what ends up?
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so guess what ends up?
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_01: It shifts your life decisions or whatever.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and so now we have to liquidate.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_01: That's what we decide, right?
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_01: Because we're like, you know what?
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe it's time to retire.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_01: What does this need to keep building?
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_01: We have everything we want.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I don't need bigger houses, I don't need whatever, right?
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_01: Like, um, what does this need?
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe it was time to, we always laugh, it's time to uh we bought some property on the Sunshine Coast and we're like, let's go be hippies, let's play pickleball, ride bikes, drink coffee, that kind of stuff.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_01: We're adventurers, but not quite that kind of adventure.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, we're active, but anyway, uh, but then you start liquidating and you're like, oh shit, now I got big tax bills.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_01: Now I'm trying to pull money out of the park, or like blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_01: Anyway.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think that that whole idea of understanding where and why you want a personal net worth is a really great conversation.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_01: It's not just about yeah.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I it is, and and it was actually when I when I mean I started Fairway in 2006.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_00: And of course, when people are getting divorced, then you're really, really grinding down on their net worth.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_00: And it was, you know, we've done over that company's done over 10,000 divorces in Canada.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_00: So they they they know their game.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_00: But what I noticed when I was sort of in the trenches is that people really didn't have a handle on their net worth statements, and not only that, didn't understand the tax implications or even the risks associated with the assets.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, you one asset, you could have two assets, they could both be both be worth$100,000, but one could have a huge amount of risk associated with it or a big tax bill.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_00: So that was kind of my first aha.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_00: And then I think the other thing is my mom, she's she's elderly and she always teases me.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_00: She says, You know, Karen, what are you?
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_00: Like the king is in the parlor counting all his money.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_00: He goes, Is this your is this your day per quarter?
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_00: The queen is in the parlor counting all her money.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_00: So, yeah, yeah.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_00: So she does that.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_00: She'll call me and she's saying, What are you doing today?
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_00: I say, Well, it's my quarterly money counts.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes it's monthly because I'm so OCD about it.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_00: I I will say what you don't measure, you don't create.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, so I've been I've been amazing how the universe has manifested uh significant wealth for me because I've measured it.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_00: So I sometimes am surprised at how big my number is, and I don't feel like I've actually like earned it or warranted, but like you're not grinding working for it.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_00: No, but I know that I so good gosh, but I know that I manifested it, and that's very, very cool.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, some people will say, Well, why don't you include some of your husband, right?
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_00: Because clearly there's some joint assets.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_00: And I said, No, no, no, it's half, it's half.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_00: So so that's really key key.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_00: I think the other thing that I learned is when you really shift to building your personal net worth, and I'm not I'm not saying we don't build our companies, but they are three different quadrants of our life.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, building companies does not give you freedom, that is the opposite of freedom.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_00: Building your personal net worth gives you choices and freedom.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_00: But you've got to be ruthless about the decisions you make in order to build that wealth.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_00: So, one of my rules of thumb was I've never paid other than my mortgage, which I paid off in 2008.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_00: I've never had another mortgage since then.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_00: I have lived within my means and I've never paid interest, which means when I say that, I've never paid interest on a credit card, I've never had a line of credit on my businesses, nothing.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_00: I've always done it very organically.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_00: And I look, and you know, when I again I got to see so many thousands of people's net worth statements who live big, you know, show big, and then they've got uh, you know, maybe it's a two million dollar or a million dollar house and they've got an$800,000 mortgage on it, and they're paying.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_00: It's like that's not the definition of building wealth.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_00: The definition of building wealth is you start with what you can afford.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_00: And granted, you know, the first or second house you need a mortgage.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_00: Beyond that, you should be living within your means.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_00: The freedom associated with that when you wake up when you're in your 50s or 60s is enormous because all of a sudden there's nothing tying you down.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_00: There are no bills, it's it's just complete freedom.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_00: And your businesses, if you've done it right, hopefully will generate some income for you.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_00: But if they don't, that's okay because they got you to where you're going.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so you know, what you do not measure, you will not create is so, so important.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_00: But also being disciplined, like it's sad to me to look at the national, like when they look at sort of the debt with per capita in can in our country.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_00: That's that's heart-wrenching.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_00: And uh I I don't I don't get it, right?
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_00: I I understand there are people who have to go into debt in order to put food on the table, but it Canada is a pretty generous government, quite frankly.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, and that's not you're not you're not talking to those.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_01: You're talking to those that are living above the means, not being disciplined.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_01: Why do you think why okay?
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_01: I want I actually I want to go back to another quote, another statement you said about leaving money or giving money away in the pursuit of peace.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_01: So this is the this is the like it doesn't matter, just whatever makes everybody happy.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_01: Is that that kind of is a good one?
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, I guess through fairway divorce, you would have saw that a lot.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and you know what was interesting about that?
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_00: That wasn't just okay, so listeners might go, oh, I wouldn't do that.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_00: That was even with the females that were professionals.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_00: So when you have couples, and let's say you have a stay-at-home husband, I'm just gonna say, yeah, and the the woman is the primary uh breadwinner, or let's say the woman has a business that is bigger than the husband's, or he's maybe got an income.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_00: That personality, that sort of characteristic was consistent.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_00: There may have been the one-offs that were, no, no, forget it.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_00: Like I'm not, I'm not giving away that just to be happy, to make peace with my ex my ex-spose.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_00: I there's something in us, and I get it, right?
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_00: We're we're maternal, we're nurturing, we want peace.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, we would be better running the world than you know what we've seen, but you know, that's a whole other story.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_00: But the fact is, is we want we want to have love, we want to express it, we want a family, we want to love, and that's our nature as females.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_00: But we have to be cognizant of what we're giving up, and it's not just today.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_00: It's do you realize, like madam client or madam person, if you give in and maybe give, let's say a let's say the house is worth a million and the wife says, you know what, I don't want to fight anymore.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_00: He can have it for 800 grand.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_00: So you basically left a hundred on the table, right, for yourself.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_00: That 100 over the course of 10 years, if invested property, could end up as five to 10 times, you know, depending on the rate of return.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_00: But let's say five times, so half a million dollars.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_00: So you're not giving up that hundred grand, you're giving up your future freedom.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_00: And like it's a mathematical thing, right?
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, women are often choose more of the softer types of professions, and so maybe their brains aren't working as fast around the math.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, my mantra is you get the bloody math straight, be clear about it.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_00: Those are boundaries, those are female boundaries that we have to have.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_00: And ultimately, it empowers you to have a life you want, to be the person you want.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_00: And if the spouse is that's a non-negotiable, no, I'm I I I'm not about fighting, but I am about being fair and and not caving in because you want to be sweet potatoes, you know, you just want to be kind and so let me ask you this then.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_01: As a woman who's like that, you're not wanting to fight, but you are not going to give your chance at a freedom or whatever it is away, uh just to sacrifice or be the peacemaker.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_01: Do you get a lot of flack for being so convicted in your perspective on that?
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_00: I think I actually get a lot of respect, but I think I get but I think I get that side eye, right?
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's why people like, like especially females, like to be around me.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_00: But it's certainly, you know, I'm on my third marriage.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna be authentic.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_00: My first two failed.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, there was lots of reasons, but I I have been I've had this conviction of female empowerment since a very early age.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_00: And that, you know, that goes back to all your family history and watching your mom and dad and be like, please never, I never want to be in that marriage.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_00: But I think there is a conviction that happens, and with that comes boundaries, and with that comes alienation of people who may don't maybe don't want to abide by are comfortable with those rules.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_00: I am pretty non-negotiable, and that has cost me in relationships.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_00: But for me, that's too bad.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's just too bad.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um I I don't apologize for it, you know.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_00: And and I, you know, it it's funny because there's a lot of women, I'll say to them, you know, maybe you should tell your husband that if he he you would actually get more money if you divorced him than if you put up with his crap while you're married to him.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you know, like don't don't underestimate the power of getting half of your bucket in your own bucket.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_00: There's power in that.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not I'm not advocating divorce at all.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_00: I I've never advocated for it.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_00: But to have the control and the power over your own bucket is really important as empowering.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_00: And that's where, and in fact, ironically, that's what relationship, that's where relationships thrive is because of the mutual respect.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_00: It's clear.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_01: It's so yeah.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and that's why I ask you because I I'm a very direct communicator.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_01: I am very I feel I really function by clearest kind, very direct, not disrespectful.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_01: I don't tear people apart, I don't have hissy fits, I'm not emotionally uh abusive, all that kind of stuff.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_01: But yet I get so much flack, and there has been so much relationship uh shrapnel because from even best friends, people that I thought were like my ride or dies, because they just and my husband would say, People can't handle you, or or you're too much.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_01: And I would be like, What does that mean?
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_01: What do you mean?
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_01: But he knows he finally was able to say, What's too much is that when you say you value direct communication, you lead with that, so you that's how you are, and you want people to be that way to you, and then they can't, they don't have the capacity, and so then they you find them kind of shifting off at first.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_00: They're attracted, but then they're totally, and I think too, like I I, you know, my younger self, I probably struggled a little bit with a proper filter.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_00: I I didn't have a filter, so I was so direct, and that got me into trouble.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I think I'm older and wiser, and so I do have a bit of a filter now.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I'm still very direct and I'm very opinionated.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_00: And I'll say to people, like, don't ask me that question unless you want the answer, because I'm not gonna tell you what you want to hear.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna tell you what I think you need to hear.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_00: That's my role in life.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_00: That's that's part of my that's part of my passion in life and business is helping people see the truth, even if they don't want to see it.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_00: And it's around money, it's around relationships, you know, just what whatever it is.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_00: And so, you know, Shirley McLean used to have a uh, I mean, she's guys, she's 100 plus now, but one of her books out on the limb would talk about how there's different stages in life, and as you move through life, people on the stage will change.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_00: And I think as as you've probably found, those people who just find you too abrasive or or too direct, um, you know, whatever.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you know, that that's their version of me.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, this is who I am, and this is I, you know, I'm authentic in who I am.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_00: I love human beings, I love people.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_00: But I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna soften a uh a message that I think is so important for you to know just because I don't think you can handle it.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_00: That's almost an insult.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I I appreciate that.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_01: That's what I wanted to one of the things I love about aging, there are a lot of things I don't love about aging.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, but one of the things I do love about aging, I'm 59, is I really love the clarity from being able to look back and seeing patterns and seeing things.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_01: So when you talk about like, you know, you're older now, your filter is a little, not your filter, or maybe you know how a little more finesse or softening or whatever it is.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_01: That's the one thing I love about being my age is I can look back.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I just had a conversation with my daughter this morning.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_01: She left her nine-year-old at home alone, and I was horrified because that's just who I am.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_01: And I said to her one day, she goes, Well, she's like, she can take care of herself, you know, blah, blah.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_01: And I said to her, sweetheart, I want you to remember this moment because one day, when you're in your 50s and you're looking back at your grandkids, you're gonna say how you're gonna think how young they are.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_01: But when you're in the moment, you don't see them as that little.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_01: You see them as I want you to remember this moment because one day soon, 20 years from now, you're gonna be you're gonna hear this conversation.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, it happened with her.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_01: So I there are some things that I love about age, and that's one of them is being able to look back and see, right?
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_01: And see the patterns and how they can um how we can move that forward to influence our present.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_01: So I want to ask you a little bit about this decision advantage of formula, formula.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_01: This is something I've come across when I started, I was like, oh my God, who's this woman?
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_01: And I had already heard about fairway divorce years ago.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_01: So first I've totally forgot to congratulate you on building and really spearheading such a yeah disruptive process for what really is a hard one of the hardest times in people's lives.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_01: And the really uh the saying is real, really the lawyers are the ones who benefit.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_01: People and the families are all left just like spent and torn, and you whether they self-destruct and then spend everything on trying to anyway.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_01: Congratulations for building that thing.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_01: Like thank you.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_01: That's thanks, and to see it go on and be something without my legacy now, right?
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_00: Beyond me.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_00: That's the key, right?
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_01: That's what I love.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_01: That's what Door Gurus is for us.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_01: Is it's that's what we were building that to be that.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_00: So um it's a legacy piece.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_00: It's a legacy piece.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so I love that.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_01: So congratulations on that.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_01: But going back to the decision advantage formula, when I was looking through it, I was curious because I thought it was gonna be a little more complicated than that.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: I was curious what propelled you to create this formula for helping.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_01: I'm guessing you work a lot with women, but probably men, helping people, let's just say, instead of genderizing it, make decisions.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_01: And how did you, yeah?
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_00: Well, it started back about 15 years ago.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_00: I I created what I called the universal decision making model.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_00: And it was, it was like 12 steps, and it was, you know, because I was really frustrated with people not well, number one, not able to make decisions.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_00: Number two, making decisions and then changing their mind a million times, and or making decisions and then having regret because it didn't exactly go the way they wanted.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_00: And so I was just, I was puzzled and kind of it set me on a path of starting to learn about different personalities and how we make decisions.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_00: And why do we, you know, why do we have regrets?
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_00: I I suffered out a bit.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_00: I look back and go, oh God, why did I make that decision?
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_00: But there's something really nice about looking back and go, you know what?
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_00: I made that decision with the information I had at the time, and I made the best decision I could.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't know the outcome.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_00: That's a much better and more fulfilling confidence-building thinking process versus that was a really bad decision and I'm an idiot.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_00: And so I created I created this about 15 years ago, and then I tested it as I was working through people with divorce, and I'm like, okay, let's let's break this decision down.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, let's let's start breaking the pieces of of why you're making them.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_00: Is your ego getting the way?
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_00: Is there is there some sort of personality trait that you've got from that you're just not conscious of that is interfering?
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_00: So, long story short, after I sold Fairway a year ago, I was like, okay, what's the next chapter for me?
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not ready to retire.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_00: I don't really want to start another business.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_00: I'm so yeah.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_00: So you don't want to be locked down like that.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but so what does it look like?
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_00: And I thought, like, I love to write, I love to share, I love to communicate.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_00: So I kind of did a deep dive into how can I simplify?
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_00: And quite frankly, you know, Mel Robbins with her let them, you know, it's like, oh, that's so simple.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_00: How and so I came up with this pause check choose and pause, and then within that, there's little steps.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_00: And I have a if you on my website, Karen Stewart.com, you can go there, you can download the the ebook or sign up for my newsletter, and and I I'll send you the ebook.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_00: But it's really just and I've got a little printout, and you so you just like pause is like, okay, this is a this is an important decision.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_00: This is not if we're having pizza tonight.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_00: This is a potentially life.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_00: So pausing and and just making sure, and this is the key, we're asking the right question.
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_00: That's all I could go on and on about that, but we don't often ask the right questions, and our question will have bias in how we answer it.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_00: So, for example, should I quit my job?
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_00: That's maybe a question.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_00: Or versus, is there something in my present job that I could alter that would make me happy with my job?
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_00: So very different questions, but but coming from the same places, I'm not happy, right?
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_00: So phrasing the question is key.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_00: Then you move to uh um uh choosing.
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_00: So you look at all these different um uh so checking, sorry, so it's pause, check, choose.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_00: So you move to these, and I have like five different things.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_00: Is your ego involved?
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um, have you weighed the pros and cons?
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_00: Have you taken a step back?
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_00: Is there other fac other people involved that you need to bring into the decision?
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_00: So kind of again, just a little more analytical blueprinting for an important decision.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_00: And it if they're not important, it doesn't matter, and then choosing.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_00: And choosing choosing basically doesn't mean you have 100% confidence that the outcome is going to be, but it is a hundred percent clarity that at this point in time this isn't the best decision.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_00: And if you don't have that clarity, and you know, you know, that's that gut feeling, that's that am I in the flow?
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_00: Is that like, am I getting goose pumps?
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_00: Uh do I have signs?
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_00: Like there's an element of intuition we have to apply it.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_00: I love that women can do this.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_00: We have to apply that.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_00: That's a muscle we have to learn to apply.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_00: So you make a choice.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_00: Then what I love to say to people is sit with that choice, get really clear within 24 to 48 hours.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_00: If that is the wrong choice, there will be signs.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, okay.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_00: And if it's the right choice, there not may not be signs, but at least you'll have you won't have the bad signs.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_00: And then you just have to let it go.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_00: But if it doesn't go the way you wanted, yeah, it's not because you didn't make the right decision, it's because it was the right decision at the time.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_00: And there's a lesson in there then that you have to be able to capture for your next journey.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_00: So that's how I've sort of looked at the whole decision-making model and the discipline that we need.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, because I look back and I go, oh my gosh, I can't believe I made that decision, right?
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_00: What was I thinking when I married that guy?
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_00: But three beautiful children, and you know, but uh yeah, now if I had applied that decision-making model today, I wouldn't have I wouldn't marry that person, and I would have saved myself a lot of pain and suffering and maybe had kids with somebody else.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_00: But that's what it is, is and not to beat ourselves up about the past.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_00: Like you've got the tool today, use the tool, apply the tool, and then be gentle with yourself as you as you move through how it evolves, right?
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's about loving ourselves.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_00: And if we love ourselves first, then we become a loving human being on the planet.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_01: I love that the one thing that what did you say, pause, check, check, choose, check, choose, pause, check, choose, choose.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_01: And remembering that the outcome it does not determine whether it was a right or wrong choice.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_01: Because so many times we're like, you know, I when you're telling and explaining this, I'm going to a decision that we made in the business for something.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_01: And I I think the same thing, like, oh, that was a terrible outcome.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_01: It was it, right?
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_01: So that was a bad choice.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_01: And and it wasn't a bad choice at the time.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_00: No, right?
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_01: So when I look and kind of put that filter that you just the that it wasn't with the information that I had, the situation we were at, blah, blah, blah, it all felt good.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_00: Outcome has no bearing on whether you made the right decision.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_01: See, and that's I think the shift.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_01: And maybe that's what people are afraid and why they get so tied up in not making a decision because they're like, oh, is it going to be the right decision?
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_01: Meaning, is the good stuff, whatever that is, the success going to be attached to that.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_01: I always say that when I was younger and my friends were getting married.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if this is the right guy.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if this is the right.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_01: Well, you'll you don't know, you don't know what life you don't know what life will give.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_01: You don't know how it'll evolve.
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_01: You'll never have a I I don't know if it's a right.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_01: It'll be right if you make it right.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_01: It'll be right if that's what you choose and go down that and just make the decisions as they happen, right?
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um and so I think sometimes we get too stuck on trying to guarantee an outcome of success before making it and it freezes.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_00: And and that, and and that's paralysis, right?
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, that's what it does.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and and you know, the type of personality that can fall into that quite easily is a really analytical person who's very, you know, I need all the facts.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_00: And but what happens is they're paralyzed in indecision because they'll never get the enough facts.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_00: And that was something I noticed in again in working in divorce with all these couples, is that you would have people that say, Well, you know, I'm gonna go with my gut, and then you have somebody else says, I don't have enough facts, and neither one's right.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, a gut needs to be backed up by by some analytics and some facts and and just a check because sometimes our gut can be a little bit off.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_00: I'm a believer in trusting our gut, but it's also a sign that I need more information, and sometimes people will jump.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_00: And then the other sign is you know, I'm so analytical I can't make a decision, so I'm paralyzed in life and I miss so many opportunities.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, it's almost giving yourself the freedom to make the wrong like have clarity in decisions.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_01: That's make the decision and then yeah, and then let it go.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_00: You can always change, right?
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yes.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_00: We're we're we're not we're not, you know, we've come into this life, and the main reason we've come in, I believe, is to to grow and to learn and to increase our you know, our level of consciousness and whatever it is that that somebody believes.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_00: But I think it's to be a better person, you know, than when we leave, right?
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_00: Than maybe we were when we came in.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know if that makes any sense.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_00: So I I again, it's not about getting everything right, but it is about the conversation we have with ourselves and being authentic about it.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_01: And then being confident that you made the decision, like you said, the best decision you could at the time with the information you have, and then moving forward from there, taking the lessons, what were those, and then moving forward from there.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_01: So I love that.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_01: I I really like that um the pause, check, choose.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_01: I like the decision advantage formula, especially coming from somebody that's had is so analytical, like in finance, you're you know, uh stocks you said, finance, building fairway divorce, all those kinds of things.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_01: You're like in your head a lot, right?
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_01: Decision making a lot.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_01: So I I I love the way that that's laid out.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_01: And that it's simple.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_01: You've simplified it.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_01: Usually it's a big 12-step.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_01: So I love all that kind of stuff.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_01: This is why I said that we're already we're already approaching 30 minutes.
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_01: It goes by very, very fast.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_01: What is the one thing you would like to leave our listeners with?
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, I think there if there is, I think number one is is, and this sounds so cliche, but you have to start by really choosing to love yourself.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_00: It's a choice.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_00: And then from there, you in or by loving yourself, you have to make your ultimate, you give yourself the gift of driving to ultimate freedom, which does have personal net worth associated with it.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_00: And then as you're going down that path, apply the simple pause, check, choose, which will help you build your intuitive muscle.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_01: What a great wrap-up.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_01: Karen, thank you so much for your time.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_01: Where can people hang out?
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you you have a website so they can get some information and you do an email series on there.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_01: I get it.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I you can Karen Sturt.com, you can join up for my newsletter.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_00: I'm on LinkedIn.
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I I I'm kind of around, but uh Karen Sturt.com is where you can get my newsletter.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_00: LinkedIn, you can message me and download some of my stuff.
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_00: It's all free.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, I'm just trying to give away and share my life learnings with people who I care about, which is basically everybody.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_00: Love that.
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks.
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for your time today.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.