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70 The Future of Creative Agencies with Pairbond Studios · The Rave Social Podcast

• 0:10
  SPEAKER_02: Hello, everyone, and welcome back to the Rave Social Podcast.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_02: Today we have three guests, which is the most guests we've ever had at one time.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_02: So it's going to be a party.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_02: We have Jessica, Robin, and Amanda.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_02: They're the partners behind Pairbond Studios, a woman-owned creative co-op that is breaking the mold of the traditional agency model.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_02: They believe the best creative work happens through collaboration, not hierarchy, which is why they built Pairbond around a network of talented creatives who work as an extension to their clients' teams.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_02: Together they've helped businesses bring brands, products, and ideas to life through design, marketing, content creation, and manufacturing.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_02: Their mission is simple to prove that Great Creative isn't about having the biggest agency.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_02: It's about building the right team, creating meaningful partnerships, and making work that people are genuinely connecting with.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_02: Welcome.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_02: Hi.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_02: You did that so well.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_02: This is my third podcast recording today.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_02: So I feel like I'm I'm in the flow.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I'm excited to have all three of you on for the lore, you guys.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_02: I worked with Robin, Amanda, and Jessica all in my past life at Drive Marketing.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_02: So we've known each other for quite some time, and we're excited to have them here with their new business.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_03: Yay! Yeah.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_02: So excited to see you again and talk with you.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, girls, let's do this.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_02: Let's start with pair bond.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_02: You mentioned that one of your biggest things is that you're breaking the agency dilemma.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_02: What does that mean?
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we um so I guess what we would like to say, or like what we like to compare it to, is like a cruise ship and a speedboat.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um, that traditional agency is like a cruise ship.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_01: It looks great, it's super fancy.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_01: There's a lot of things you can get from it.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_01: But in today's marketing, you have to be able to be nimble and fast.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_01: And so we're the speedboat where we can turn and we can pivot and we can, you know, definitely be flexible with your team, with your budget, with all those things.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_01: And so we're really proud to offer that kind of thing.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_02: So I love that.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_02: That's real.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_02: Old agencies are they're dying.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I really think that they are, especially because of like the rigidity and um yeah, the rigidity and the the strictness of how they operate.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_02: And I think people definitely need more flexibility.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_02: I also think a huge part of the business market now is like smaller to mid-sized businesses who are not hiring those cruise shipped size agencies.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_00: And I also think that we have tried really hard to limit our overhead.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_00: So we don't have the same um built-in costs that a lot of other agencies do.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_00: So we make it available to small businesses.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, major.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_02: When you guys were starting your agency, which I know you're relatively newer, um what were you thinking?
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_02: Like, what made you think there has to be a better way?
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_02: Was it a certain experience you had, multiple experiences?
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um, yeah, so I had the idea for pair bond initially, um, just because like businesses are trying to hire unicorns and they don't exist.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_00: So they try to hire one creative person who can do um photography, social media, graphic design, and like copywriter strategists, all of those jobs as one person.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_00: And like the problem is that these jobs all come with different skill sets.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_00: So like they not one person can do all of this to the same extent.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_00: And so after like I worked for a company and I did all of those jobs for sit five different brands, and I burnt out in a year, and so I thought that there has to be a better way to give businesses experts in all of these fields without it having to be one person.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_02: That's so real, and I could say, like, as a social media manager, even the the pressure to be a video editor, a photographer, a graphic designer, a strategist, a freaking whatever, like pop culture guru, like all these things, it is it's wild, and it's a lot, and it's honestly too much for one one guy.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_00: It is.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_00: And so if you bring a team of freelancers and each one has its expertise, let them do what they're an expert in and let everyone do what's their skill set.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I feel like that's actually such a major benefit of hiring an agency over just like an individual like freelance or just the individual person, like the unicorn you're talking about is just because like you can you can get access to a wider variety of the skill sets without like hiring each of them individually, which would be just too much for most businesses.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_03: My first boss ever in my working career once told me that you don't have to know how to do everything, you just have to know someone that does.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and I think people just try to be perfect at everything, and you don't have to do that, you just have to find capable people and work together, and it's so much more fun.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_03: That is so true.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_02: So the three of you, you fall three, come together with different strengths.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_02: How have you built?
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_02: I'm curious about how you've built like your internal partnership together and how you work together and divide and conquer on those different responsibilities, and then also what are your different roles and strengths?
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um, yeah, so the three of us couldn't be more different in the way that our brains work, which I think is also why it works.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we've worked together for a very long time and we've stopped trying to be good at the same things, basically.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_00: So, like Amanda, for example, she really pushes creativity and she knows how to tell a good story.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um, she's great at the ideation part of graphic design.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I'm more of a structural graphic designer, so I love structure, I love um like information.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_00: And so I'm really good at making sure all of our pieces fit and connect and make a bigger picture.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_00: And then Robin brings the strategy, so she makes sure that everything we're doing, whether it's social media, marketing, or graphic design, she's making sure that it has a purpose and that it's driving sales for our client.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_00: So I think all together, like we just trust to do what the other is good at, and I think they all connect and they work.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_02: I love that.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_02: Do you feel like you I mean, how how do you see your different roles also shifting and evolving together?
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_02: Like, what's the broader vision?
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_03: So I am the one I'm gonna guess in this group that's worked the longest uh since I'm older.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and uh I don't know as much about the newer things.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_03: Like, you know, when I went to college, there was no internet really.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_03: I know that sounds makes me sound like a million years old.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_03: But um, so I never learned about website web design.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_03: There were no apps, there were no smartphones.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_03: So, like all of that is totally foreign to me.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_03: So I've been really excited about pair bond by having Robin, who is our social media side, and watching her work and watch her talk about social media and stuff like that, is a world I've never been in.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_03: And I've already learned so much from her.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so you know, she's teaching grandma some new trips.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_03: Um yeah, so uh for me, I've been excited to learn about new things that I've never been part of before.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I love that, and I feel like it's such a dance.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_02: Like I went to school for marketing, like I went through business school, did marketing, all that stuff.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_02: And like it's so interesting the elements of marketing that are have stayed the same.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_02: Like it doesn't matter if it's on a website, it doesn't matter if it's on Instagram, whatever it is.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_02: Like there are those things that are foundational.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_02: And then you have what we deal with all every day, which is like AI now using AI becoming more important than SEO.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_02: Like, are you optimized for AI or are you optimized for SEO?
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_02: You know, these things that continue to change and make the industry yeah, and everything forces you to get better.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_03: And every year it's something new, you know, there's a new app, a new strategy, a new trend, you know.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_03: So it's it can be fast moving.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_03: A little bit, yeah.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_02: For sure.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_02: I think it for sure if moves faster than design, because I also think design can be a little bit more based in, yeah, like it's it's not maybe there are some trends, but it besides that, it's pretty like steady.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_02: I like the element of both though, because like I feel like marketing would be so boring if it was just like the same all the time.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_02: So like the challenge of blending the two and making sure, like, okay, are we following like the foundational principles of like what good marketing is, and also stretching ourselves creatively.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_02: That's why I like it.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's a time balance for sure.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_02: So branding, marketing, and social media, they obviously all influence each other.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_02: We kind of talked about that, but a lot of times people do treat them separately, like they're hiring a web designer, they're hiring a brand designer or a product development designer.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_02: These different things, they're they're being separated.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but how do you guys approach them from an ecosystem?
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_02: Like, where are you starting to keep them all connected?
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, I don't think that we treat them all exactly the same because I don't know that they should be.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I mean, just kind of goes back to what we were saying.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_01: Like, we let our experts and their expertise do their thing.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_01: But the difference is is that we start everyone in the same room.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_01: So, like Amanda is building the brand and I'm there so I can say, Hey, did you think about this social aspect or did you think about this placement aspect or whatever?
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_01: And Jessica's saying, This will go really well on X, Y, or Z, and maybe we need to, you know, so from the beginning, the basis of it is the bigger picture.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_01: So our client can either use the basics or we can grow with them and put it wherever they want to go.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's kind of the difference there.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_01: Is like we're not, it's not a pass-off, it's a whole team, like our brains are in it from the beginning.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_03: And for the record, the answer is no.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_03: Amanda was not keeping the social media marketing in mind.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_03: She was not, no, but I'm working on it and we're growing together.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_03: She is now.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_02: She is now, yeah.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_02: And now when she's designing, that's all she can think about.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_02: Will this look good as a graphic on Instagram?
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_03: Is Robin gonna be mad at me?
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_03: No.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, never.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_01: Amanda needs to give herself more credit.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that's another thing just to lend, lend or go back to support what she was to go back to what she was saying before.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, yeah, she's learning stuff from me, but she has so much experience and expertise that I'm constantly learning from her too.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_01: Even if it's just like client interaction, she's like, Oh, yeah, I I've dealt with that before.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what if we try this?
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_01: You know?
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's just like a really, really cool harmony that we all sort of lean on each other and we can put ideas in the middle, and no one's like, oh, you know, it's like, ah, let's let's explore that more, you know?
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_01: And that's that's why I was like so excited to jump in with these two.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_01: It's because I they're so respectful, they're so positive, and I like it's really hard to find that honestly in the marketing atmosphere.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_01: It's very cutthroat in a lot of ways.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, it's different in that way.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_01: Cutthroat.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_02: I'll cut you down.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_02: I'm just kidding.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_02: No, uh, but yeah, I agree.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_02: It can be like it can be competitive or aggressive in some ways.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_03: Um also the reason I really like Parabond and think that we have something kind of unique going on is um myself, Jessica Robin, we've all been working in our individual fields doing what we're doing at a higher level for quite some time.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_03: So, you know, if there's very few things talking to a client about graphic design that I haven't experienced before.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_03: So that helps, and I can be like, look, here's what you do, you know.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_03: So we we're able to help each other out in that way, and that is invaluable.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_03: And that's also something you don't always get from, you know, bigger agencies and stuff like that.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, I rem and I remember what I was gonna say about this.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_02: It was when what I've experienced at least is when there's newer brands coming into the market, or maybe they're just rebranding, but they have a big vision.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_02: I think a lot of times they look at whatever is the most natural to them.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_02: So they'll, you know, if they're more of a copywriting person, they'll be like, oh, we need new copy.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_02: Or if they're more visual, they might be like, oh, we need new photos, or something like that.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_02: When like you guys are able to hold them in a different way where they can hold the bigger vision, like what's after the copywriting, the branding, the social, like what is gonna become of this down the road?
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_02: And so that you're not having to make as many like pit stops basically on the way.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you can just get there quicker.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_02: Um, okay.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_02: I would like to know when a client comes to you saying these words, we need better marketing, what's the real problem?
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_02: Or like what does that trigger for you?
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_00: So I think that for us, like the customer doesn't know if you have three different departments or if you have 20.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but the customer notices with the brand doesn't feel the same in on every touch point.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_00: And so a lot of companies have, you know, three departments that don't talk to each other.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_00: But like we were saying with us, we're in it from the beginning, all three of us.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_00: So we all are in there for the ideation, we're all in there for branding and revisions and thinking through the social aspects and things.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's just where our model really works.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_00: Like we look at what the businesses need and curate a team around it.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_00: So we'll find you a web design expert, you know, and we'll find you um the right social media strategy.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_00: And so we really work with the businesses as individuals instead of working heads down in our own little department.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_02: Like our motto is they're kind of saying that broad.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_03: Sorry, Jaden.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, you're good at it.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_03: You go ahead.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_03: Our motto is uh everything is better when it's done together.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_03: And uh we try to, you know, we live by that, we work by that.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_03: Um and it really is better.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_02: So, like when someone's coming to you and they're like, we need better marketing, to you, that's a signal that something within their business is like disconnected.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_02: And then you're you're taking that and finding what the disconnect is and then helping them navigate a path forward.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we actually offer.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, sorry.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_01: I was gonna say we actually offer um like different kinds of audits as well, like initially right off the bat, so that we can look into what's going on and um pinpoint that and then have conversations about what we think next step should be.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_02: Or user data.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_00: I don't remember.
• 18:02
  unknown: Oh, sorry.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_02: That's okay.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I do I feel like especially like coming from a corporate place into maybe you guys are working still with big corporate brands, or maybe you're working with smaller um businesses now.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_02: But I think when people often people think that they that the the problem that they're having is a problem, but actually it's a symptom.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_02: So they'll be like, I need better sales, or like, oh, our inquiries are down, or like, oh, nobody we need to get the we need to get our name out there.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_02: Like that's one that I always hear.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_02: And it's like those are all symptoms of a broader problem, which is bad marketing and bad marketing over a period of time, right?
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_02: Because it's not like you fix your marketing and then the next day you have sales, it's a process and you have to you have to be repeatable with it, yeah.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_02: Um, how do you know when a brand has like clarity and a purpose versus when a brand is giving chaos?
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_02: Like, how are you identifying that?
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I'll take that one.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um I always feel like a brand that has clarity feels like someone you know.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_01: It's they're like recognizable, they have a personality, um, they're relatable.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_01: And I feel like when there's a lack of clarity, it looks like you're just kind of like throwing spaghetti at the wall.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_01: Like there's different kinds of posts, there's different kinds of, you know, all these different sort of um topics and concepts and stuff, and it's just like chaotic, and you just you're asking what they're trying to tell you.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_01: But when there's a consistent storyline, there's a consistent personality and feel of like, oh, I can relate to this, um, you know that that's like a good brand.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_03: I love that.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_03: I think if I think if people see something of yours with your brand on it, and then later you or someone asks them and they don't remember it at at all, then you've probably got a lot of work to do.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_02: Chaos.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_02: And it's honestly hard.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_02: Like, you know, marketing is like obviously that's why agencies exist and why there's so many consultants and stuff, but it's not always super easy because um there's so many things going into play.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_02: It's your fonts, it's your colors, it's how all of it's how those things make you feel, it's the personality of the brand, it's the face of the brand, which is an era we're in now.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_02: That's like a brand can't exist without a human element to it.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_02: Um and when you're trying to blend all of those things and then post them on Instagram, like it's not always easy to make sure that the dots are connected time and time again, and you're not veering from that original brand that you established.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and there's so many dots now.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_00: Like you have social media, you have Pinterest, you have your website, you know, there's so many dots to connect that like having a whole team of experts, it creates a web instead of dots to connect, right?
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_02: And if you're hiring like different agencies or like different freelancers to to manage all those things, I can see how the disconnect can grow quickly.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_02: Like if they're not communicating with each other, which I mean most of the time they're not going to because that's not their job.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_02: Um, the agency model makes a lot of sense to you guys can be the ones that that connect those dots and make sure that things aren't veering off of.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_02: How they should be going.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_02: I would love to know, like each of you in your own area of expertise, what you think about marketing trends and trends in general.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_02: Like it could be brand trends, stylistic trends.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_02: Like, what do you think about them?
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_02: And how do you decipher one that's worth exploring versus one that's like not for skip it?
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_02: Skip it.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_03: I well, I work purely off vibes.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_03: So uh if the vibes are good, let's try it.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_03: Uh and then Jessica and Robin come in and wrangle me in and say no.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_00: Or yes.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, that's a good vibe, but let's put some structure to it.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_02: Like, for example, that's what I think.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_02: Like that's more of like a design trend.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_02: Like, what are the vibes?
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_02: Like, should should you follow that?
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_02: Should you not?
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_03: Like, what do you think?
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I just hosted my cousin's uh wedding shower, bridal shower, and it was all butter themed.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_03: So I for one love the butter theme.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_03: I think it's fun.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_03: If you ask the vibes, follow the trend.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_03: Amanda's good with butter.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_03: Butter and good vibes.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_03: That's all you need, really.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_03: I still buy that.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, that's funny.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I hope that's my sound bite, butter and good vibes.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_03: We can make that into a sound bite.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_02: Um, Robin and Jess.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_00: So I'll go.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I I think marketing does change so quickly.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_00: And I have been in the room with business owners that think every single piece of marketing needs to attract every single customer.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_00: And like, honestly, I don't think it should be.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I think that's where they get caught up in trends, is they want to appeal to everyone.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_00: Where, like, let's let's think about our audience and who we're actually trying to reach.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_00: Will that reach them?
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yes or no?
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_00: And so um, that's kind of my take on trends, is sometimes they're good vibes, sometimes they're not so vibing.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_00: So um that's kind of what I think.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I'll just add on a little bit to what Jessica said.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I think that like having done this for so long now, um, we can we're able to give the like the advice that not every trend is for every brand.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I think it was Jessica that said, you know, as we've discussed these kind of things, like if it makes sense, we'll definitely lean into it.
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_01: But if it doesn't, like it's not worth the time, the hours, and the budget to put into it, you know?
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_01: So I think it really has to make sense.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_01: And um, I think that's what you get when you have somebody whose experiences, like their instinct and their experience is going to tell you, like, I'll just tell you up front, this is probably a waste of time and money, you know?
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_01: So I don't know, that's kind of how I feel about it.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_01: I think if it's like immediately comes into your brain, like this will work, this is we gotta do this, jump on this, then it's probably there because the the motivation and the fun is there with it.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_01: But if you like, if you're having to sit there and concept and try to brainstorm like how how can we fit this into this brand, it's it's probably a puzzle piece that doesn't work.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I love that.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_02: I love the idea of like it fitting naturally.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_02: That's also a whole nother, I feel like unspoken marketing strategy is just like being using your intuition.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_02: Like, like that is just not gonna work, or that is gonna work.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_02: I don't have the data, but I just can tell you my gut says that's not good.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_01: I know sometimes it's scary because you're like, my gut's saying no, and everybody else is saying yes, and you're like, do you stick to it, or are you like guess like second guess yourself?
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's it's hard the those situations.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_02: For me, I always am going with the gut.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like the data.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, but I don't know, like if that's necessary.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_02: But I I actually feel like that's more of a thing now than it has been in the past because of social media and like having a pulse on like the vibe and the energy of what is going on socially, like it that in and of itself is like a skill that you have to attune yourself to that can't always be explained with a number.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, well, it's being part of that community, right?
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_00: Like if you're in the trenches, if you're in the social media every day, you know more or less what your people want.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, that's so I think they'll tell you.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_02: They such a good example of this is also someone all of us know and is a client of ours, but it's Maya with Aunt Shell, her knitting company.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_02: And she has done this literally perfectly with creating a community that she listens to and they listen to her and they go back and forth and they create these products that haven't existed before, literally at all.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_02: And so, because of that, she's becoming like an absolute trailblazer in the industry that will for sure be well known forever because of the community.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_03: Absolutely, and you know, Maya does such a great job of um every post, every photo shoot, every project, every get together, every event.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_03: It always has the same Maya vibe and it feels good.
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_03: And if things feel good, people are gonna want to be involved in it, and she's really nailed that, and that's sometimes hard to do.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_02: It's not it's because it's not something that you can always fake.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I think especially in the world of social media, things are just it's harder to fake things now.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_02: Like people can tell how you feel about it, like they can tell when you're not being honest, they can tell when you're trying to make a sale, and they can tell when it's AI.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, they can tell some people, so maybe not enough people, yeah.
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_02: If you ask me, yeah, that it's tricky.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_02: Um, okay, if you could give every business owner one piece of advice about building a memorable, memorable brand, what would it be?
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_03: So um just kind of going back to what Jessica said, I think one of the more important things you can do when you're starting your brand is kind of figuring out who exactly is it that you're wanting to market to.
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_03: Um because, you know, that really that is the bigger d biggest driver of what your brand's gonna look like, feel like, you know, what the social marketing's gonna, everything, you know, stems from there.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_03: And I think a lot of people when they start businesses, they don't really put it into thought like where am I gonna sell this, who am I gonna sell this to, who am I, you know, marketing towards.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so I think just really kind of getting to know or narrowing down who your end user is or who you want that end user to be.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_03: If you can the sooner you can lock down on that, the better off I think the branding part of it will be because the branding will be more authentic at that point.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_03: And if something's more authentic, then you're already off to a great start.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, that's like the number one piece.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_01: Can I can I just give Amanda some flowers here on that?
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_01: Like she really knows her stuff with this.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_01: So seriously.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um, just let's go for it.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_01: She just worked with a client that wanted to make uh some packaging for some uh like a personal product.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_01: And Amanda's like, this is all you, like, this is so reflective of you.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_01: So she took her handwriting and made it into the font.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_01: And it's just like one of those touches that I think is so cool.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_01: And the client just loved it, but also the people who follow her, because she has a really great following, would know that too.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_01: So it's just like this way of again, like what Jessica was saying, is like connecting the dots and like really being in it with your client so that everyone understands, like it's authentic, which is so important right now.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_01: It's like it's reflective of her.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_01: I just such a cool way of doing it.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_01: And that's like, I don't know, I just can't get over it.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_01: She showed it to me and I just fell in love with it.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_03: And it can be subtle, right?
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_03: Like, there's nothing on this, this the packaging or the in the branding that um that says who the my client is.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_03: It's not released yet, but yeah, you know, there's nothing on it that says or it's her, but it's like if you know, you know, and she's so much more connected to this product, which is she's gonna be the face of the product, so like it's so important for her to connect with it.
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_03: And we got to a point where she does, and that's a great feeling, and that sets everything up from here, you know, to be successful.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_03: Agree.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_03: I hope that was a good one.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_03: That's my favorite thing.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_03: When you find when you find one thing or you have like one spark of an idea, and you're like, oh, what if we do this?
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_03: That's there's no other feeling like that on earth for the code.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_02: And then it's cool.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_02: Then you guys execute it.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I feel like people get those those feelings, and it kind of goes back to what you were saying at the beginning of this question, Amanda, but like people get really excited about what they they're what they want to do, right?
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_02: They're like, I want to open this business or I want to launch this product without thinking about who they're who's gonna buy it.
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that's where you can you can get a little sideways or rocky from the start, is not knowing who you're gonna sell.
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_03: It just makes it a lot harder moving forward, I think.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, you have to work backwards for sure.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_00: And uh I I do think that like in today's social media um marketing era, like it is so important to be authentic because like your community knows, they'll know if you're not being um you know honest or authentic.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think authenticity is just one of those things that's so big right now.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_00: So I think Yeah, I think I think also sorry, Jaden.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_03: I think also um the feedback you can get from customers, people that follow you on social media is more available to us than ever in history.
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_03: So if you do something, say something, make something that people don't like or don't think is right, or there will be lots of people that let you know in the comments.
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_04: They're gonna tell you.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_03: They're gonna they're gonna tell you.
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_03: So, you know, the more authentic you can be about what you're trying to do, what you're trying to sell, you know, people people really do notice that.
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's there's a very, very big trust recession going on.
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_02: It's there's I'm not a data numbers girl, as you've noticed, but there is so much data and numbers behind this that there's a major trust recess recession right now.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that's why the authenticity matters, is because people are taking more time to sniff out is this a gimmick?
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_02: Like, what is the point of this?
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_02: Why am I buying this?
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_02: Why am I buying this from you specifically?
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_02: Like, what is what's the bigger picture?
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_02: And people are really taking their time with that, it's not as quick as it once was.
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_03: So younger people are um, they really want to a lot of times they really want to make sure that what they're buying, using, being seen with, wearing whatever it is, they really want to make sure that the people behind this brand or this brand is a decent brand.
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_03: Like I try really hard to know who I'm buying from.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_03: And if it's something from like a small artist that I've found on Instagram and they're selling something, my buy now button is I have no problem with that.
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_03: It's hot.
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_03: Um, you know, because I will always, always, always support, you know, small, small artists, small businesses.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_03: That feels better, and that feels better for me to spend my money that way.
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that's something that I think people are paying more attention to, you know, especially right now when as the economy is a little uncertain sometimes, you know.
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_02: Oh no, she said uncertain.
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_02: Um uncertain, unprecedented.
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_02: I'm still unprecedented, yeah.
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_02: Uh no, you're exact you're exactly right.
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_02: And I also think strong brands can weather those storms very easily.
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_02: Like, not it's not to say you won't struggle, but your struggles will be felt a lot less than if you if you don't have a good solid brand that is memorable, recognizable, and actually doing or serving people in a way that they actually need to be served.
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_02: Like, yes.
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_02: Um, okay, what is the biggest lesson you guys have learned from working together as a team?
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I think mine is trust.
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um, like get people on your team who you trust and trust them to do your job so that you can focus on what you do best.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I'm not gonna step in the lane and try to tell Robin what strategy we should use, you know.
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not gonna tell Amanda, I'm not gonna tell Amanda those colors aren't vibing, you know, because like I mean she might, but I might.
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_00: That's okay.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_00: But that's okay.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna focus on what I do best so that they can do what they do best and let them shine.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_03: And we've all known each other long enough in both a personal and a work business capacity that I trust Jessica and Robin both with my life.
• 37:03
  SPEAKER_03: So when they're like, Do you trust me with your business?
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, absolutely.
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_03: Like, you know, I'm yeah, I couldn't do any better than them.
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_03: So um that just feels really good because all I have to do is sit at my computer and draw things.
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_03: And that's what I like to do.
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_03: So that's great for me.
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_01: My biggest, I think the biggest lesson, lesson I've learned is that um you just you're gonna be happier in what you're doing when you have people around you that actually value you and support you.
• 37:39
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I'm gonna have off days.
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_01: We all have off days, but like there's, you know, Jessica's like never shy about, okay, how can I like help you?
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_01: You know, or like, can I pick this up for you or whatever it is.
• 37:52
  SPEAKER_01: And then it's like, and it's it's like um, it goes back and forth.
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_01: It's like I can't do exactly what she does or whatever, but maybe I can organize something for her, or vice versa, or whatever.
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_01: And I just really appreciate being in a space where the mentality is if if you succeed, if I succeed, then we all succeed.
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, I'll just go back to it again.
• 38:13
  SPEAKER_01: I've I said it earlier, but like it that is not always the scenario that you find yourself working in and the you know, the the room that you find yourself in all the time.
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_03: I really like to we really like to we really like to go with a um a rising tide lifts all boats, yeah.
• 38:35
  SPEAKER_03: Kind of strategy.
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_03: And if Jessica feels good and is caught up and is you know, feels good about what she's doing, then I feel good about that, you know?
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_03: So yeah, um, yeah, working with these two ladies and um just having each other's back is great.
• 38:56
  SPEAKER_02: I love I honestly love it because I uh I work pretty much on my own.
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_02: I have a team, but we are we're we're contractors, you know.
• 39:07
  SPEAKER_02: We're we're in our own lanes to a degree.
• 39:09
  SPEAKER_02: We love each other, but uh it's it's just fun to see you all working together um in such a close capacity and like really love that.
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_02: I have some rapid fire questions.
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_02: Um are we ready?
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, they're not scary.
• 39:26
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, number one, a brand you're obsessed with right now.
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_00: Oh Jaden, I will tell you, I'm not gonna lie.
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_00: My algorithm is like 90% cross-stitch.
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_00: So cross-stitch brands, cross-stitch influencers.
• 39:44
  SPEAKER_00: I'm basically 80 years old.
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_03: So have you cleared it modern cross-stitch, though?
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_03: They're it's so fun.
• 39:51
  SPEAKER_03: Patterns are great, colors are great, designs are great.
• 39:53
  SPEAKER_03: It's a whole world out there.
• 39:55
  SPEAKER_02: I have not taken a spin, but maybe I should.
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_02: They're killing it.
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_02: My buy now is hot.
• 40:03
  SPEAKER_03: And then calls.
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, sounds good.
• 40:06
  SPEAKER_00: 90% cross-stitch.
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_00: That's what my algorithm tells me that I'm gonna like.
• 40:11
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah.
• 40:13
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so uh I um I enjoy sports, a lot of sports, a lot.
• 40:21
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, so I follow a lot of sports teams.
• 40:24
  SPEAKER_03: I see I'm fed a lot of sports contents and content.
• 40:29
  SPEAKER_03: And right now um teams are releasing their schedules for the year, and they really make it a thing.
• 40:38
  SPEAKER_03: And a lot of times they'll find like some niche like corner of the internet.
• 40:43
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_03: Um, like the Atlanta, I want to say it's the Atlanta Falcons.
• 40:48
  SPEAKER_03: It's either the Atlanta Falcons or the Atlanta Hawks, but they had a there's a kid on social media that does bird calls, and they had him, he had them, they had him host their schedule release, and so he would do a different bird call for each home game.
• 41:06
  SPEAKER_03: And it's so unhinged, but it's so funny.
• 41:09
  SPEAKER_03: And this kid is so good at it, and like they're all just so unhinged, but they're so fun and they're so creative and so well done.
• 41:17
  SPEAKER_03: And a lot of times they pull from small creators, um, small designers, and it's like just it's a nice design sports crossover in the world for me.
• 41:29
  SPEAKER_02: But yes, I know what you're talking about, and then the NFL, when the NFL teams do their schedules, they are so creative.
• 41:36
  SPEAKER_02: There's so many NFL teams that have such good social media.
• 41:40
  SPEAKER_02: I really like the LA Charles.
• 41:42
  SPEAKER_03: They do a great job.
• 41:43
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 41:44
  SPEAKER_03: They just do the Detroit Lions, has a great social media team.
• 41:49
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 41:50
  SPEAKER_01: Some of them are really, really impressive.
• 41:53
  SPEAKER_01: Some of those, yeah, social media teams are elite, like they're killing it.
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 41:59
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 42:00
  SPEAKER_02: Um, okay, next one.
• 42:02
  SPEAKER_02: Um, Instagram or TikTok.
• 42:05
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, I always say Instagram for business and TikTok for entertainment.
• 42:11
  SPEAKER_01: Same.
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, we all know Jessica's is already Instagram for cross stitch.
• 42:18
  SPEAKER_03: So, yeah, no.
• 42:21
  SPEAKER_03: No, I'm not sure.
• 42:22
  SPEAKER_03: But yeah, I'm the I'm the same.
• 42:23
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 42:24
  SPEAKER_03: Instagram for inspiration, friends, that kind of thing.
• 42:27
  SPEAKER_03: TikTok, I don't want anybody I know on my TikTok.
• 42:32
  SPEAKER_03: I just want to get on there and watch the crazy video.
• 42:34
  SPEAKER_03: It's my safe space.
• 42:36
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
• 42:37
  SPEAKER_03: Like, you know, I don't need you to know what I'm watching at 2 a.m.
• 42:41
  SPEAKER_03: when I should be going to bed.
• 42:42
  SPEAKER_03: Like, you know, and I'm watching, watching some guy clean out a horse's hoof.
• 42:48
  SPEAKER_03: Nobody needs to know that.
• 42:49
  SPEAKER_02: Like, like for the ninth part series, too.
• 42:53
  SPEAKER_02: You know, when you get like you've watched a whole movie on TikTok just in like yes segments.
• 42:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 43:00
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, I hate it.
• 43:01
  SPEAKER_02: When I get to the end, I'm always like that chicken.
• 43:04
  SPEAKER_00: You subscribe to follow what happens to the chicken.
• 43:08
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
• 43:08
  SPEAKER_02: I love when people are in the comments and they're like, let me know when part two is up.
• 43:13
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, you're gonna have to every man for himself.
• 43:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 43:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um you gotta put your in your algorithm right where you want it.
• 43:22
  SPEAKER_00: I do I've been working on it so hard.
• 43:24
  SPEAKER_03: I think you know TikTok had the best algorithm too.
• 43:29
  SPEAKER_03: Like they would just get what you've had and yeah, very much changed.
• 43:35
  SPEAKER_02: Do you have like like I'll be scrolling TikTok and I have like different things that I do depending on how much I like the video?
• 43:41
  SPEAKER_02: Like, if I like it, I'm gonna like like it.
• 43:44
  SPEAKER_02: If I really like it, I'm gonna like it and save it.
• 43:47
  SPEAKER_02: If I like really, really like it, I'm like like, save, comment, send it to Raj just so he can see it.
• 43:54
  SPEAKER_02: Like I have these different like formulas that I use so that my algorithm gets curious.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_02: Wow.
• 44:01
  SPEAKER_02: I'm good.
• 44:02
  SPEAKER_01: I always give my husband a really hard time if he doesn't watch the videos I sent him because I tell him I'm his algorithm and I'm curating videos for him.
• 44:11
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, you don't appreciate the time I'm putting into this.
• 44:15
  SPEAKER_02: I like me and Reg will send videos to each other and then like at night we watch our own algorithm that we send to each other.
• 44:23
  SPEAKER_02: Like if he's like, I already saw this one, I'm like, shut up.
• 44:26
  SPEAKER_02: No, you didn't.
• 44:27
  SPEAKER_02: Like, this is the first time you've ever seen this right now.
• 44:32
  SPEAKER_03: Oh my gosh.
• 44:32
  SPEAKER_03: Blake's not Blake's not on social media at all.
• 44:36
  SPEAKER_03: So I just have a little where I save TikToks is I'll just and it's a hundred percent dog videos, animal videos.
• 44:46
  SPEAKER_03: And then like every couple of weeks, I'll be like, Do you want to watch some TikToks?
• 44:50
  SPEAKER_03: And he's like, Yeah.
• 44:51
  SPEAKER_03: And I will scroll for him through his personally curated dog videos.
• 44:59
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 44:59
  SPEAKER_02: Oh my god.
• 45:00
  SPEAKER_02: But I enjoy that.
• 45:04
  SPEAKER_03: So it's great.
• 45:05
  SPEAKER_02: That is hilarious.
• 45:07
  SPEAKER_02: Um, okay.
• 45:09
  SPEAKER_02: What's your biggest branding pet peeve?
• 45:14
  SPEAKER_00: No PMS colors or style guide.
• 45:18
  SPEAKER_00: That's real.
• 45:19
  SPEAKER_00: You need them.
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_00: Need them.
• 45:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 45:23
  SPEAKER_02: I gotta know your colors.
• 45:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 45:26
  SPEAKER_00: It's so important.
• 45:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 45:27
  SPEAKER_00: The PMS values, the hex codes, like you gotta know them all.
• 45:33
  SPEAKER_03: Uh mine is probably um having too much AI content or AI leading content.
• 45:42
  SPEAKER_03: Like, I understand that AI, you know, is a thing and I understand it's gonna be there.
• 45:49
  SPEAKER_03: And it's hard to go through your day without using something that's AI if you're working on a computer.
• 45:55
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so it is what it is, but just don't have it be the face of what you're doing because um if you think people can't tell that it's AI, they can.
• 46:06
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 46:07
  SPEAKER_03: And you know, it's real.
• 46:09
  SPEAKER_03: And I think, you know, it that just goes back to the authenticity part of it too, is like, you know, if it's AI, you have no idea where it's pulling from.
• 46:19
  SPEAKER_03: And you know, you want it to be yours, not pulled from 17 other brands that you have no idea about, you know.
• 46:26
  SPEAKER_03: So it's AI can be a little tricky.
• 46:29
  SPEAKER_03: Um, while I understand it, I think, you know, just don't go all in.
• 46:35
  SPEAKER_03: Agree.
• 46:36
  unknown: Yeah.
• 46:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 46:38
  SPEAKER_01: I'd say like uh not giving credit where credit's due in the social world because um it's very easy to copy concepts because of trends and things like that.
• 46:48
  SPEAKER_01: But there are some things that are very innately that brand.
• 46:52
  SPEAKER_01: And if you feel like you want to do something similar, like at least give them a shout-out or a tag or whatever it is.
• 46:58
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's really important for artistry and for creativity to make sure that those people get like called out and you're honest and about it.
• 47:08
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I love that for sure.
• 47:12
  SPEAKER_02: Um, okay, last rapid fire.
• 47:14
  SPEAKER_02: What's one thing every business owner thinks they need but they don't?
• 47:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um, to do everything themselves.
• 47:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um, just because you can do something doesn't mean you should.
• 47:28
  SPEAKER_00: Like you could should trust your team and do what you're best at so that they can do what they're best at.
• 47:33
  SPEAKER_00: Because we've all had those clients, right?
• 47:35
  SPEAKER_00: Who are I'll just do it myself.
• 47:37
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, you can do that, but you could also let someone who has, you know, done it to do it successfully.
• 47:47
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 47:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 47:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 47:49
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 47:50
  SPEAKER_03: I think uh for me, it's less one single thing that they think, but I think sometimes people, especially if they've never created their own brand, create started their own business or anything like that, um, as they're working through stuff, I think people have this idea that they're gonna come to a designer and say, This is what I want my brand to look like.
• 48:11
  SPEAKER_03: And then the first round they get back is gonna be exactly what it is.
• 48:16
  SPEAKER_03: And uh, and that's just not the case.
• 48:18
  SPEAKER_03: Everything is a process.
• 48:20
  SPEAKER_03: It's the same with I think social media and the marketing and everything is it's it has to be a collaboration, it has to be um a process because it's it's just not gonna be instant.
• 48:32
  SPEAKER_03: And with most uh things in the world today tend to be instant, but this is gonna be one of those things where it's not really gonna be.
• 48:40
  SPEAKER_03: And so sometimes people don't quite aren't quite prepared for that.
• 48:45
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, that makes sense.
• 48:50
  SPEAKER_02: Robin, what do you want to add?
• 48:52
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I I loved Jessica's answer.
• 48:54
  SPEAKER_01: I'm totally on board with that, which is yeah, touche.
• 48:58
  SPEAKER_01: I think, yeah, I think J and you can probably relate, like a lot of people um like they just feel like they can do it and they they probably can, but are you going to do it?
• 49:10
  SPEAKER_01: And are you going to do it at the level that's going to make a difference?
• 49:14
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 49:15
  SPEAKER_01: Like, yeah.
• 49:16
  SPEAKER_01: And are you going to see the return that you want to see and that kind of thing?
• 49:20
  SPEAKER_01: Cause I just like it's hard, it's really hard because I really want to help somebody, but also when they don't see the value in the expertise, then it's like we you know, we've got to meet somewhere on this kind of thing.
• 49:35
  SPEAKER_01: So I just agree with Jessica.
• 49:37
  SPEAKER_01: Like, just like just because you can do it doesn't mean you should do it.
• 49:40
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 49:41
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 49:41
  SPEAKER_02: I feel like it's such a good compass is like this is specifically for like smaller businesses, but like you should do the things that you want to do and like feel really fun and exciting to you.
• 49:54
  SPEAKER_02: And like that's where you should spend your energy.
• 49:56
  SPEAKER_02: And then the things that feel like are draining to you, or like you can do it, but it takes you forever.
• 50:03
  SPEAKER_02: Um, or you can do it, but you just don't like it.
• 50:06
  SPEAKER_02: That sort of stuff is where I think, and I personally, like even in my business, draw the line.
• 50:12
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I don't want to look at QuickBooks ever in my life, so I'm gonna hire that out.
• 50:17
  SPEAKER_02: Like, you know, it's just like I could totally reconcile my bank account.
• 50:21
  SPEAKER_02: I don't want to do it, so I'm not gonna do it, you know.
• 50:24
  SPEAKER_02: Spend my time on on other things that I actually do want to do.
• 50:28
  SPEAKER_02: So I love that.
• 50:30
  SPEAKER_02: Um, the last question for you guys is what is one piece of advice you wish you could give your younger self?
• 50:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um, for me, I would say to be confident.
• 50:43
  SPEAKER_00: I think it took me a long time to like be my biggest cheerleader or believe in myself as much as my biggest cheerleader did.
• 50:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I think that for me it would be be confident, trust yourself, take the leap, like you'll be fine.
• 51:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 51:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 51:02
  SPEAKER_01: I'd say, oh, no, that's a problem.
• 51:05
  SPEAKER_01: Go for it.
• 51:06
  SPEAKER_01: I'd I'd say for me, it's like um, don't try to like push yourself into rooms where you're not wanted, not necessarily wanted, but like if you feel like you're constantly fighting to be heard or to be respected or whatever that is, like that's a major sign of like you need a change of scenery, you need a change of pace or whatever it is.
• 51:28
  SPEAKER_01: So I wish I could go back and tell myself, like, don't put so much effort into that, put it into things where it's connecting and clicking, you know.
• 51:38
  SPEAKER_03: So yeah.
• 51:41
  SPEAKER_03: Um, mine is um just start.
• 51:47
  SPEAKER_03: Especially if it's something creative, you know, it it doesn't have to be perfect from the jump.
• 51:52
  SPEAKER_03: Uh and it took me a long time to get to this point, also, but you just have to get in there, just start, just create, just draw, just craft, just do whatever.
• 52:02
  SPEAKER_03: Um perfection, it really is the enemy of progress.
• 52:07
  SPEAKER_03: And um also uh you're allowed to create things that are just for fun, just for you, just because I think you know you'll see it a lot on social media if somebody makes something and people are like, you could totally sell this, you could put this on Etsy, and it's like you don't have to.
• 52:30
  SPEAKER_03: You can just make something because you wanted to and you like it, and that's enough.
• 52:35
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I love that.
• 52:37
  SPEAKER_02: I love that life is too serious for everything.
• 52:40
  SPEAKER_02: Life is too serious, yeah.
• 52:42
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, like we need to have more fun.
• 52:45
  SPEAKER_02: Totally 100%.
• 52:47
  SPEAKER_02: Well, you guys have been a joy to have on the podcast.
• 52:49
  SPEAKER_02: We will make sure to link your website and your Instagram so people can check you out.
• 52:55
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but is there anything else you wanna say?
• 52:59
  SPEAKER_01: I want to say make sure you're having fun.
• 53:02
  SPEAKER_01: Because if you're not having fun, your customers and everybody else knows it, and they're not having fun.
• 53:08
  SPEAKER_01: So that's so real.
• 53:11
  SPEAKER_01: Also, like, can you imagine?
• 53:12
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I just you you gotta have a little fun, or else like you're gonna have the most dreadful life ever.
• 53:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, make it look fun, yeah.
• 53:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, thank you all for being here.
• 53:24
  SPEAKER_02: It was really nice to see you again, Jayden.
• 53:26
  SPEAKER_02: It's been awesome.
• 53:27
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
• 53:28
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you for having us.
• 53:31
  SPEAKER_02: Bye.
• 53:32
  SPEAKER_02: Bye.
• 53:33
  SPEAKER_02: Bye.