Latest / Simply Bitcoin / Jeff Booth | Simply Bitcoin IRL

Transcript

Jeff Booth | Simply Bitcoin IRL · Simply Bitcoin

• 0:00
  All right, we're here in Miami Beach with I'm such a fan, Jeff
• 0:04
  Booth, the author of Price of Tomorrow and GP at Ego Death
• 0:09
  Capital. Thank you so much for joining
• 0:10
  me, Jeff. No pro.
• 0:11
  I really, really appreciate it. Great to be here and like what a
• 0:15
  beautiful Swatch. Well, thanks for coming.
• 0:18
  And I, I've, I've been enjoying our conversations so much.
• 0:22
  Every single time you absolutely blow my mind.
• 0:25
  I think what I've been going through recently and just kind
• 0:28
  of like my Bitcoin journey is the idea of inflation and how
• 0:31
  much it's like ruin society. And I, I guess my first question
• 0:35
  to you is what a lot of people look up on YouTube is how much
• 0:39
  Bitcoin do you truly need to retire?
• 0:43
  I, I don't think very much it, it depends on how long you can
• 0:46
  hold it, but I, I, I think it's and I don't want this to be
• 0:50
  click baity, so please don't put this in the title, but I think
• 0:53
  it'll have infinite purchasing power eventually and I can walk
• 0:57
  through why if you'd like. Absolutely.
• 1:00
  OK. So if you if you said the the
• 1:02
  current all assets in the world currently equal about $900
• 1:08
  trillion underneath those assets is about $600 trillion of debt.
• 1:14
  And if you include all of the liabilities and I'm unfunded
• 1:18
  liabilities and but 600 trillion and so if that debt went
• 1:22
  insolvent, all of those assets are worthless, right, Because
• 1:26
  everything would collapse. So people are measuring their
• 1:29
  assets within a system that that debt is already insolvent and
• 1:33
  they're pretending that debt is solvent, that debt requires more
• 1:37
  and more manipulation of money forever, exponentially more
• 1:41
  manipulation of money so that the assets don't collapse and
• 1:44
  everything within that system doesn't collapse.
• 1:47
  So we're at the almost end of days.
• 1:49
  It could go on a bunch longer, but that system is getting more
• 1:53
  and more centralized, more and more controlled.
• 1:55
  And because it has to, we'll go into that afterwards.
• 1:58
  But every single asset. So instead of thinking 900
• 2:02
  trillion of assets, think my house within that, this building
• 2:05
  within that, or if that debt weren't insolvent, this place
• 2:08
  would be worth nothing like nothing, right?
• 2:11
  So there would be complete chaos.
• 2:13
  And, and So what does that say to you?
• 2:16
  It says it won't go insolvent in that way because you wouldn't
• 2:20
  let it if a government allowed the debt to completely collapse
• 2:24
  and everything to collapse and it to be anarchy in that in that
• 2:28
  way every last man for himself. You would before that happened
• 2:31
  vote for more centralization and control.
• 2:34
  You wouldn't let the bank fail. So when I say it's going to
• 2:37
  collapse to 0, it won't collapse to zero and instead there will
• 2:40
  be liquidation, more and more manipulation of money.
• 2:44
  So from bitcoins perspective, if you just said you have an open
• 2:49
  decentralized, secure protocol bounded by energy and and that's
• 2:53
  my kind of five criteria on what the on what this is.
• 2:57
  So that system bounded by energy, as long as it stays
• 3:00
  decentralized and secure. The only thing that would change
• 3:04
  this is if somehow Bitcoin broke and wasn't decentralized and
• 3:07
  secure, but that system bounded by energy will reprice all $900
• 3:13
  trillion of assets. All it's not, it's not.
• 3:17
  Bitcoin isn't within the system. It's outside the system bounded
• 3:21
  by energy. There's a really important
• 3:23
  differentiation. You know this.
• 3:25
  Many Bitcoiners know this, but many Bitcoiners know it.
• 3:28
  And at the same time, they're pricing it as an asset within
• 3:32
  the system. OK, so it's outside if you hold
• 3:35
  it in self custody, if it stays decentralized and secure,
• 3:38
  founded by energy, it will. It is repricing that entire
• 3:41
  system over time. So what does that mean?
• 3:44
  So you take that 900 trillion up today of purchasing power, not
• 3:48
  900 trillion of paper money of purchasing power and you divide
• 3:52
  it by 21 million and or if you said that, how many lost coins?
• 3:56
  You divide it by a smaller number, but let's say that
• 3:59
  number equals 43,000,000, approximately 43 million of
• 4:04
  purchasing power in today's currency of Bitcoin.
• 4:07
  But what would happen from that system?
• 4:10
  From that system, you're living in the first global free market
• 4:13
  that has ever existed. And from that system, prices
• 4:17
  fall every year. Prices as we automate, as AI
• 4:21
  moves faster and faster, as AI merges with robotics, as the
• 4:25
  free market adds more people to the free market and those ideas
• 4:29
  compete to provide us value, prices fall forever ever
• 4:32
  relative to that 43,000,000, so that 43,000,000 gains more and
• 4:37
  more value forever. So if you had a small percentage
• 4:42
  of a Bitcoin into in time, that would be enough to live forever.
• 4:46
  And it's just all we're talking about is the timing of when that
• 4:49
  happens rather than does that happen so.
• 4:52
  I think, and you know this, I appreciate our conversation so
• 4:56
  much, Jeff, because I think you Take Me Out of that perspective.
• 5:00
  I mean, it's very difficult. You're the one that actually
• 5:02
  told me this. It's very difficult to imagine
• 5:05
  that system within the existing. System.
• 5:09
  It's impossible. Yeah.
• 5:10
  It isn't in the system. In other words, we have no, You
• 5:13
  have to use first principles and then ask what will happen will
• 5:17
  be because of that, What will happen because of that?
• 5:19
  What will happen because of that?
• 5:20
  Because all of our. When I think about this, I think
• 5:23
  about all of our mental lattice, all of our books, every single
• 5:29
  other thing we've ever written is within the system.
• 5:31
  We've always lived in a control system.
• 5:33
  It's never been a global free market.
• 5:35
  We've we've always Co opted money.
• 5:37
  When people say gold is actually the store of value, it hasn't.
• 5:40
  It's failed many times. It gets repriced, it gets
• 5:43
  centralized. If gold was actually the price
• 5:46
  that the free market says it is, it should be about $80,000 an
• 5:49
  ounce. So it's suppressed through
• 5:52
  derivative instruments. It's suppressed.
• 5:54
  Nobody knows how much gold each central bank has.
• 5:57
  And you have a you have a paper currency on top that gold isn't
• 6:01
  audited every 10 minutes. So we pretend it acted like a
• 6:04
  store of value because of that could get better store of value
• 6:07
  than others. But we don't have a mental model
• 6:11
  for what a real store of value or not a store value, a real
• 6:15
  network protocol bounded by energy looks like because all of
• 6:20
  the stuff is in our mind is in this other system.
• 6:22
  What's? Stopping Bitcoin from not
• 6:25
  falling in the footsteps of gold in terms of it potentially being
• 6:28
  captured. And I'll give a little bit of
• 6:30
  context. You know, we have 3% of the
• 6:32
  supply apparently owned by MicroStrategy.
• 6:35
  The vast majority of their ET of the ETF's are custodying their
• 6:39
  Bitcoin with Coinbase. It's a tremendous amount of
• 6:42
  trust, right? And just one institution really
• 6:45
  that's custodying the Bitcoin for all these institutions, all
• 6:48
  the, you know, these public companies as well.
• 6:50
  Isn't that exactly what happened to Gold?
• 6:53
  Is it really is a exactly and and it's a really good question
• 6:57
  because of that and because of that it it should break your
• 7:01
  mind out of the trap that it's in.
• 7:03
  It won't for all Bitcoiners. So but it will for some and over
• 7:07
  time. But I put a bar at least for me
• 7:10
  in Bitcoin when I even though I keep saying over and over and
• 7:13
  over again, if it stays decentralized and secure, that's
• 7:16
  my caveat to Bitcoin repricing the entire system.
• 7:20
  What would not make it stay decentralized and secure?
• 7:23
  Exact. One of the things is exactly
• 7:25
  what you talk about. If in over 5000 years in history
• 7:28
  we've always centralized and we've always believed that
• 7:32
  inflation is natural and deflation is unnatural, then
• 7:35
  it's not Bitcoin, it's us that centralizes.
• 7:38
  It's is it human? Nature, it's human nature, it's
• 7:41
  creed, fear. And when we and and fear, in
• 7:44
  fact, a lot of control mechanisms are created by
• 7:48
  creating fear in us that then we usurp or we give our control, we
• 7:52
  give our time away through fear because somebody else will
• 7:55
  protect us, right? And so that's an age-old trick.
• 7:59
  It's how false flags work. It's how so to be able to create
• 8:04
  to create that that fear. If I knew everything about
• 8:07
  Bitcoin and I couldn't stop it every other way, I did social
• 8:10
  attacks, I did climates, it's bad for the climate.
• 8:14
  I did all of these things. If I couldn't stop it, what I
• 8:17
  would do is I would try to Co opt it.
• 8:20
  If I knew everything that I knew and I was an adversary, I would
• 8:24
  try to Co opt it. I would say I'm so for this,
• 8:27
  we're going to regulate it to make sure that that our country
• 8:31
  wins on it. And I would get people to trust
• 8:34
  my centralized one because it was safe, right?
• 8:38
  That sounds very familiar. Jeff, so, so all of the actions
• 8:42
  that we see here. And then what would what would
• 8:43
  those people be doing what those people would be doing over time
• 8:49
  that many of the Bitcoiners today would make so much money
• 8:52
  in that centralized system. They wouldn't be bitcoiners
• 8:55
  anymore, right? They would be trading their I've
• 8:59
  won, I'm there. They would move over this.
• 9:02
  They would be moving out of self custody in.
• 9:07
  To the system. Trading the system to trade
• 9:12
  their Bitcoin for a piece of paper.
• 9:15
  And they would. And the Bitcoin would be
• 9:16
  centralizing, as a matter of fact.
• 9:19
  And it would be, it would seem so normal because they were
• 9:22
  pricing from a Fiat system from and that's Fiat system had to
• 9:27
  drive inflation. So it had to centralized at a
• 9:30
  faster and faster rate, but because they would think they
• 9:33
  were getting rich within that system, it would Co opt them
• 9:36
  into that system. And I think many, many
• 9:38
  bitcoiners are going to do that along the way and they're going
• 9:41
  to sell. They'll do OK everything else
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  and they won't be bitcoiners. The question is how many more
• 9:46
  join and understand what Bitcoin really is for humanity.
• 9:50
  Yeah, how many people keep going because most of those people
• 9:54
  that do that don't run nodes. They're deferring their judgment
• 10:00
  to somebody else. And the people that run nodes
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  and and more so in time it'll be economic nodes and and how many
• 10:07
  and transactions what are those look like on the network?
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  Those are the gatekeepers to Bitcoin.
• 10:14
  So now let's just keep playing this this over.
• 10:17
  And This is why I talk about this all the time because the
• 10:20
  two systems are incompatible. If you're measuring from this
• 10:24
  Fiat system that they it price go up, you are part of the
• 10:28
  centralization. I can't say that any other way.
• 10:30
  It is a first principle. You are part of centralization
• 10:34
  right as you really come to understand Bitcoin and you
• 10:37
  become an ode. You become someone at the gate
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  defending that sovereign sovereign.
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  You become nobody tells me what to what to do.
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  You realize that you're one of the people that is protecting
• 10:53
  all of humanity, moving into a system of hope, truth, and
• 10:57
  abundance. Most people don't know that.
• 11:00
  Mostly some will know. Some are going to get killed on
• 11:03
  the way through or destroyed on the way through.
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  But you're moving your time into a system that's that's a
• 11:09
  competitive cooperative global system.
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  So it's still competitive. Free market is massively
• 11:15
  competitive. You have to provide value to
• 11:18
  somebody else on their terms to get paid.
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  But everybody wins by that. And the more people in it, more
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  people win because it's what I'm saying is so unclear to most
• 11:28
  people, right? They're still measuring Bitcoin
• 11:32
  by the other system. They're measuring prices in the
• 11:34
  other system. They're giving more control.
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  Everything they're doing is feeding a narrative left or
• 11:40
  right and, and well, well, everything in that is sucking
• 11:45
  out more of their, their power and energy and energy and time
• 11:49
  and time, but they don't know it.
• 11:52
  So they're like, that's going to continue to happen.
• 11:54
  But as long as Bitcoin stays decentralized and secure, in
• 11:56
  other words, those nodes don't accept the control system.
• 12:01
  What would happen when that control system says we're
• 12:05
  changing? It has to be the Fiat Bitcoin.
• 12:10
  It would look like B cash on steroids, right?
• 12:13
  It would look like 2017 on steroids and in the first little
• 12:17
  bit there would be a lot of people and threats of you have
• 12:20
  to convert, right. But as long as those nodes and
• 12:24
  people and all over the world and if you think about game
• 12:27
  theory here, yeah, I doubt, I doubt that that system, so that
• 12:31
  that would be hyper bitcoinization, that system
• 12:33
  trying to attack or trying to attack Bitcoin.
• 12:36
  I suspect that system would then be liquidated.
• 12:39
  It reveals the man behind the curtain in a way, right.
• 12:43
  And in a way, it reveals the fact that despite governments
• 12:47
  having a monopoly on violence, their attempts become futile if
• 12:53
  Bitcoin remains decentralized. Now when I was preparing the
• 12:58
  questions for this interview and just when you're talking to me,
• 13:01
  it seems like, Jeff, what you're describing is that there
• 13:04
  inevitably is going to be some type of clash between the
• 13:09
  previous system, the existing system, the controlling system
• 13:15
  and the system that we all want, which is Bitcoin.
• 13:18
  And and when you say we all want, I don't know if so, I
• 13:22
  don't know if people have thought that many steps ahead,
• 13:24
  right? And so I know you want it.
• 13:26
  I know I want it. And we're public figures and I
• 13:28
  know tons of other people, most of the people running nodes, I
• 13:32
  know what they want and they're not going to.
• 13:35
  But if you asked most people on the street, they think so.
• 13:39
  Think bitcoins a scam. Well, they're worried about the
• 13:42
  left and the. Right, there were and and they
• 13:44
  don't understand. And the first step into Bitcoin,
• 13:47
  it is normally the price go up, right?
• 13:50
  I'm making more money, right? And and so it's how many people
• 13:54
  I just think about this as a giant funnel with 8 billion
• 13:57
  people on the planet. And, and as you go deeper and
• 14:00
  deeper into Bitcoin, you never go back up because what?
• 14:04
  Because going going back to the other system after you really
• 14:07
  understand this one, it actually doesn't say anything about
• 14:10
  Bitcoin. Says.
• 14:11
  Something about you says something about you.
• 14:13
  But we also know throughout history, people cheat people.
• 14:17
  And when I say cheat, I'm talking about from a game
• 14:19
  theoretical perspective. People will do what they need to
• 14:24
  do for their family, for their money.
• 14:26
  And they will say, say, I have enough.
• 14:28
  I I can escape. But there is no escape from a
• 14:31
  centralizing system. So do what you'd ask there.
• 14:34
  That clash, it's inevitable. And that clash has been going on
• 14:38
  over and over and over since Bitcoin was discovered or
• 14:41
  invented. It's that there's been a
• 14:44
  centralized system. A control system cannot allow
• 14:48
  Bitcoin. Yeah, can't, because they're two
• 14:50
  different systems. You almost have to say it 1000
• 14:53
  times to yourself. The natural state of the free
• 14:56
  market is deflation. Yeah, Which means you've never
• 15:00
  lived in one. No.
• 15:02
  Unless you've been denominating your net worth in Bitcoin, you
• 15:08
  have been experiencing you. You're living on one, yes,
• 15:11
  you're you're living in the first global free market that
• 15:14
  has ever existed. And as more and more people on
• 15:17
  this network, as more and more people build to it and move
• 15:20
  their time to it, we are both the map and the territory, it
• 15:24
  starts to expand and you start to see a totally different
• 15:27
  experience than most people over here measuring their control
• 15:32
  system. See.
• 15:33
  And you look at them and you think for me too, for a long
• 15:38
  time I was, am I the crazy one? Then I go back and 10 years ago,
• 15:42
  I didn't really know this much about Bitcoin.
• 15:45
  And so I was in that system thinking I was in a normal
• 15:48
  system. And so it just, it takes, it
• 15:50
  takes a while to really understand that.
• 15:52
  Absolutely. I think it takes.
• 15:54
  I think you got to pay your dues, you got to stick around a
• 15:56
  couple cycles. You've got to endure the
• 15:58
  volatility. You got to earn your stripes to
• 16:01
  have your Bitcoin in self custody, to have many heart
• 16:04
  attacks when your hardware wallet breaks and you got to
• 16:07
  recover the seed phrase, you know, set up a multi sig on your
• 16:10
  own and you know, pay your dues as a bitcoiner.
• 16:13
  And then you understand the sovereignty that it gives you.
• 16:18
  And then you imagine the world where I know it's cliche, but
• 16:21
  I'm going to use the reference anyway.
• 16:23
  You understand how many people are still in the matrix.
• 16:27
  And my next question to you is the phenomenon of inflation
• 16:32
  being treated as if it's part of nature, the way that politicians
• 16:37
  talk about it, like the excuses, the war in Ukraine, you know,
• 16:42
  it's the it's a trade war. It's this.
• 16:44
  They blame everything and anything but themselves and
• 16:49
  people buy into it. And, and my whole view of
• 16:52
  politics has completely changed because the way that I'm, I'm
• 16:54
  seeing it now as a Bitcoiner is modern politics is essentially A
• 16:58
  popularity contest and the winner essentially controls the
• 17:01
  money printer for their, their side, right?
• 17:03
  That's what it looks like from my angle.
• 17:05
  So my question to you is like, when is this psyop end?
• 17:08
  Like so many people believe that inflation is, is just a fact of
• 17:13
  life, like goods go up over time.
• 17:16
  Naturally, they don't even question it.
• 17:18
  Yeah. And so where does that come from
• 17:19
  and where does that psyop end? And if it's been part of our
• 17:22
  history for 5000 year and people believe it and that's why I said
• 17:25
  they have to ask or they have to say the natural state of the
• 17:28
  free market is deflation 1000 times.
• 17:31
  And they have to keep saying it. Because when I, when I say that,
• 17:34
  I didn't say from zero inflation, somehow politicians
• 17:38
  and economists get productivity growth mixed up with growth.
• 17:44
  Productivity growth has faster deflation.
• 17:47
  And so people talk about this AI, that as we create more AI,
• 17:50
  we're going to be able to pay back the debt.
• 17:52
  It's so insane. Now, as we create more AI, you
• 17:56
  have faster deflation, which causes the debt to default,
• 17:58
  which means you have to create more monetary units, which is
• 18:01
  exactly what I laid out in my book.
• 18:03
  Yeah, So natural rate of deflation from a free market
• 18:09
  should be over 5% right now. Yeah.
• 18:11
  Meaning every human being on Earth would get richer by 5% a
• 18:15
  year. Every single year, every single
• 18:17
  every single human being in Africa, in South America, every
• 18:22
  single human being on Earth would get.
• 18:23
  Rich by but, but the implications of that are very
• 18:27
  serious, because if they're not getting richer by 5% every
• 18:31
  single year, who is getting richer or?
• 18:33
  So, so the point, that's the point that all centralizes and
• 18:37
  the and the puppeteers behind. Now it's easy to say it's those
• 18:41
  people. If you had a centralizing force
• 18:44
  like that, you were at the top of that.
• 18:46
  You'd spend all your time trying to retain power in that and
• 18:49
  manipulating time. And but it's more why I try to
• 18:53
  keep saying there is no they, because what gives rise to that
• 18:57
  is US. It's, it's not them, it's us
• 19:01
  Believing that that is, is normal If you just keep start
• 19:05
  with the natural state of the free market is deflation.
• 19:08
  You have to ask, where does inflation come from?
• 19:10
  And I'm not talking about inflation from zero.
• 19:12
  I'm talking from the inflation from -5 or -10 or whatever the
• 19:18
  productivity rate is in the world.
• 19:19
  Where does inflation come from? It only comes from one thing,
• 19:23
  manipulation of money. Yeah, only.
• 19:25
  And I don't think many people have gone to many Bitcoiners
• 19:30
  have gone down that path. Very few people have really gone
• 19:33
  to the bottom of what does that mean?
• 19:35
  What does it mean for me if I'm measuring in that system because
• 19:39
  I'm contributing to that system. Yep.
• 19:42
  And then the more I do in that system, and the more I think
• 19:45
  it's somebody else turn the mirror around, the more it's me.
• 19:49
  Yeah, right. The more focus and attention
• 19:51
  you're putting towards it, would it be safe to say?
• 19:53
  And one of the things that I see is it, and it's fascinating to
• 19:57
  me again from a Bitcoiners perspective, the opposing
• 20:00
  parties, essentially the politicians blaming the opposing
• 20:04
  side for rising prices, which is hilarious to me.
• 20:08
  And my question to you is, do governments fear?
• 20:12
  Falling prices themselves because it's like people are
• 20:15
  like seeking the solution from the wolf, right?
• 20:19
  Instead of just saying government, you know, because
• 20:21
  Bitcoin is that people are trapped in a jail cell, right?
• 20:27
  Screaming at their, and I've said this many times, screaming
• 20:30
  at their captor while the jail cell is open because you have an
• 20:33
  open monetary, you have an open protocol.
• 20:35
  So they just would walk over any single person on the planet.
• 20:39
  So when we talk about would politicians see this or would
• 20:43
  this person see this? Or would we just have to say,
• 20:46
  would you, right? Would, would every person see
• 20:49
  this? And I would venture to say a lot
• 20:52
  of Bitcoiners right now who call themselves Bitcoiners still
• 20:55
  don't know, right? And still they, they would fall
• 20:59
  for these traps, those people, those people, those people.
• 21:02
  And they would give that more energy because they're still
• 21:04
  measuring in a Fiat currency. They're still measuring and
• 21:07
  price go up. Yeah, right.
• 21:08
  They're still centralizing. They're essentially moving from
• 21:11
  self cast city to non self cast city to trade a derivative
• 21:15
  instrument. In other words, they're
• 21:17
  increasing their risk to move to the centralized system.
• 21:20
  Yeah. And so, so if if many bitcoiners
• 21:23
  are still doing this, and of course, politicians, of course,
• 21:26
  other people who don't know this yet are doing it.
• 21:29
  And This is why the system change is so chaotic and so hard
• 21:32
  because it's actually not the. It's us.
• 21:35
  It's our cognitive dissonance of where we're going to spend our
• 21:39
  time. And that's happening to 8
• 21:42
  billion people on the planet. And it's going to take time.
• 21:44
  Yeah. And a lot of people are going to
• 21:47
  fight this. So what would you expect to
• 21:49
  happen from the from the, from this if you've always lived in a
• 21:52
  system of theft? Always.
• 21:54
  And that system had to centralized more and more
• 21:57
  because it's based on stealing that productivity that should
• 22:00
  flow to all humans and centralizing it up.
• 22:03
  Then you have to ask who would win back from such a system?
• 22:07
  And if you're giving more power to that system and complaining
• 22:10
  about the people who are winning from that system, maybe it's not
• 22:14
  them, it's you. The power comes OK Power comes
• 22:18
  from us. The power comes from people
• 22:20
  choosing to participate in that said system with their voice,
• 22:24
  their time and their money. If we all, as I hate to use the
• 22:28
  word collective but as a whole, decide to opt out and just to
• 22:34
  participate in the alternative system, it takes power away.
• 22:38
  From that system, they're incompatible together.
• 22:41
  OK, one has to so this so all the centralization.
• 22:44
  So when people say I'm not going to do this because I'm worried
• 22:48
  about what the government will do later, they're feeding their
• 22:51
  worst fear. They're they're in a 0 sum game,
• 22:55
  getting worse and worse and worse and their fear is stopping
• 22:58
  them from moving to self sovereign.
• 23:01
  Joe, I want to tell you about the best place to build your
• 23:03
  automatic self custody Bitcoin stack. bitcoinwell.com.
• 23:08
  What makes Bitcoin well, different?
• 23:10
  What makes it unique? It's an automatic self custody
• 23:13
  Bitcoin on ramp. What does that mean?
• 23:14
  That means that when you buy Bitcoin on Bitcoin, well, as
• 23:18
  soon as the funds clear, it goes straight to yourself.
• 23:20
  Custody Bitcoin wallet address, which perfectly aligns with the
• 23:24
  Simply Bitcoin ethos, because after all, self custody is the
• 23:28
  revolution. By the way, if you go to
• 23:31
  bitcoinwell.com/simply as soon as you make your first purchase,
• 23:35
  you get 3 opportunities to win up to 1,000,000 Satoshis just
• 23:40
  for signing up and buying a little bit of Bitcoin seems like
• 23:43
  a win win. What are you waiting for?
• 23:45
  Go to bitcoinwell.com/simply today.
• 23:48
  What is the role of government in a world on a Bitcoin
• 23:52
  standard? It gets smaller and smaller and
• 23:54
  smaller and smaller as more of the productivity units move to
• 23:58
  the population for forever. Now, why this is a hard thing to
• 24:02
  understand is, is this change? All of these changes don't
• 24:06
  happen. One day we're on one system, one
• 24:08
  day we're in another and everything resolves itself.
• 24:12
  It's constant resolving. But if you just ask yourself or
• 24:16
  most Bitcoiners that have gone deep down in the rabbit hole, if
• 24:19
  you ask them what does their life look like today versus what
• 24:23
  it looked like before, they would all generally say when
• 24:26
  they get to that point, what a beautiful and credible
• 24:30
  relationships, everything their life is getting better and
• 24:33
  better and better. And I think this is also what
• 24:35
  creates some inside that those Bitcoiners pushing harder and
• 24:41
  harder on their friends to try to get them to understand and
• 24:45
  sometimes pushing their friends away because it's it's so
• 24:49
  incompatible. The ideas are so incompatible
• 24:52
  because they want to help their friends and feel what they feel.
• 24:55
  And then as they feel like, they just move to a different, lot of
• 24:58
  times, a different group of friends.
• 25:00
  And through that, that system and how chaotic that's going to
• 25:04
  be on it. Like if you just asked what
• 25:06
  would it look like? Many of these people will try to
• 25:09
  cheat the system because they don't have any record
• 25:12
  recognition that. So if you think of it, FTX, if
• 25:16
  you think of all of these things, if you think of it,
• 25:18
  Ethereum, if Vitalik just bought Bitcoin instead of he was an
• 25:22
  early Bitcoiner. Yeah, he would own more Bitcoin
• 25:25
  than the other. So all of the people who've
• 25:28
  tried to cheat Bitcoin would have been better if they just
• 25:32
  held bitcoins if you look at Coinbase.
• 25:35
  Oh my. Well, Coinbase versus micro
• 25:37
  strategy, that's, that's a tragedy.
• 25:38
  It's a tragedy, but it's a perfect representation of
• 25:42
  somebody trying to cheat a free market and all of the song and
• 25:46
  dance So. So again, as this happens, why
• 25:50
  do we care if you don't have to? If you move into the cooperative
• 25:55
  competitive system, you're protected from all of that.
• 25:58
  And you know, logs of human nature is going to try to cheat
• 26:01
  this system. You know those the human nature
• 26:03
  is going to get ruined by by trusting the centralized system.
• 26:09
  And you know for sure these systems are incompatible
• 26:13
  together. So how would it play out?
• 26:15
  So you asked about the government and what the
• 26:17
  government will get smaller and smaller.
• 26:19
  How will the government get smaller and smaller?
• 26:21
  Because because there's always been a global competition for
• 26:25
  labor and capital. Where will the best capital B,
• 26:28
  It'll be in Bitcoin. Where will the best talent be?
• 26:31
  That'll be in Bitcoin. And in this this I'm talking
• 26:34
  about Bitcoin, the protocol and all of the people building in
• 26:37
  the free market, the protocol and governments are going to
• 26:40
  want to track that capital and, and, and talent.
• 26:43
  So they're going to offer policies to get more on side
• 26:48
  with attracting that. And then other governments are
• 26:50
  going to offer more competitive policies to to try to attract.
• 26:54
  And what will that mean? It'll mean the centralized
• 26:56
  system, how bloated their governments are, have to come
• 27:00
  back in line. And it'll be a global
• 27:02
  competition that'll keep on going forever.
• 27:05
  And that that. So it won't look like a light
• 27:07
  switch one day, this one day, it's going to be messy.
• 27:10
  It's going to be messy and chaotic the whole way through.
• 27:12
  And I think it is with certain political ideologies today that
• 27:17
  are very popular do what you're describing essentially a pure
• 27:21
  free market. Some ideologies are really
• 27:24
  believe in that the idea of of equality via wealth or
• 27:28
  distribution. And this is very popular in
• 27:31
  modern day politics. Bitcoin essentially kind of
• 27:34
  makes that very difficult, does it not?
• 27:37
  It makes it impossible. So the only thing at least I'm
• 27:41
  willing to debate to anybody on this on how they're from a first
• 27:45
  principle, the how their policy couldn't possibly work.
• 27:49
  If the rise of inequality is from printing money, which is
• 27:53
  theft from the free market, how could you fix inequality with
• 27:58
  more theft? I would venture to say anybody
• 28:01
  listening to your podcast that's not a Bitcoiner yet I asked this
• 28:05
  question to many people and say pick your problem you care about
• 28:08
  most in the world, right, Whatever that is and it's taking
• 28:12
  all your time and attention and tell me how that problem is
• 28:16
  solved by arbitrarily creating more monetary Unix, just more
• 28:21
  pieces of paper. Can that problem be solved?
• 28:23
  And when people are honest with themselves, I realize that
• 28:25
  problem gets worse. And then they start to see all
• 28:29
  of the, their imagined problems in the world, world are getting
• 28:32
  worse. If they go back ten years or 20
• 28:34
  years and all of these things, all these things they care about
• 28:37
  are getting worse and worse and worse.
• 28:39
  And so, OK, why are they getting worse?
• 28:41
  Because we're printing more money.
• 28:43
  So we're going to print more money and that's going to get
• 28:44
  better, right? So because you're, you're
• 28:47
  arbitrarily favoring the assets because the assets aren't are
• 28:52
  holding value better. And then those assets are taxed
• 28:56
  higher and higher and higher. So government gets bigger, more
• 28:59
  and more policy, more and more manipulating the free market to
• 29:04
  redistribute the same problem you caused in the 1st place.
• 29:07
  Yeah. Now let's compare that to
• 29:09
  Bitcoin, or let's compare that to the first global free market
• 29:12
  that ever existed. What that means is you have to
• 29:15
  create value in somebody else's terms to get to to, to be paid.
• 29:21
  It's a crazy competitive process because you're competing with
• 29:24
  every person on the planet to create value for somebody else.
• 29:28
  The output of that is because all of those ideas come from our
• 29:33
  minds to create this value as human beings through the free
• 29:36
  market. We are abundance creating
• 29:38
  machines out of scarcity because anything that's scarce has a
• 29:43
  higher margin. Yeah, which attracts more
• 29:45
  entrepreneurs and different ideas to attack that scarcity.
• 29:50
  And that process has to be deflation because we only use
• 29:54
  the things that provide us more value.
• 29:57
  We are part of that. So in other words, in the free,
• 29:59
  in the free market, there's no coercion, there's no force,
• 30:03
  there's nothing. You're choosing when and how
• 30:06
  and, and what is a value to you. You'll trade with somebody you
• 30:11
  don't like because they provide more value.
• 30:14
  You don't need a middle person. You don't need a middle person
• 30:16
  to tell you you can't trade with that person, right?
• 30:19
  You'll trade with whoever you want to drive more value, and
• 30:23
  that force is unstoppable anyways.
• 30:25
  It doesn't matter. Bitcoin is imposing that because
• 30:28
  I see centralized, secure, bounded by energy, protocol,
• 30:31
  bounded by energy. It's imposing that force.
• 30:33
  It doesn't actually matter that I care that it's imposing that
• 30:35
  force. It's imposing that force in the
• 30:39
  world today. But I would ask people who don't
• 30:42
  even know what I just said there, why would you want to
• 30:44
  stop that? Yeah, why would you want to
• 30:47
  human nature? Yeah, exactly.
• 30:48
  Why would? Who is?
• 30:50
  Human, I would say human nature. I would say human nature and the
• 30:53
  lack of education and also I work in media narratives are
• 30:57
  extremely. Powerful.
• 30:58
  And maybe we just need better narratives.
• 31:00
  Or maybe we just need to repeat these narratives over and over
• 31:04
  and over again. Because if you repeat, the
• 31:06
  natural state of the free market is deflation.
• 31:08
  And unless you can disprove that, it means you live in a
• 31:12
  control system. Yeah.
• 31:14
  Every single human lives in a control system.
• 31:16
  And their argument to bear on capitalism or Marxism or
• 31:20
  totalitarianism or socialism, all of those are a different
• 31:24
  version of a control system that ultimately relies on my guys
• 31:29
  better than your guy. Yeah, right.
• 31:31
  Yeah. Fights forever, wars forever.
• 31:34
  Bitcoin is basically like there. It cuts through all of it.
• 31:38
  There is no guy. There is no guy.
• 31:40
  So what would you say to people that they see the US government
• 31:44
  announcing A strategic Bitcoin reserve, they see BlackRock,
• 31:47
  they see micro strategy, they see the price of Bitcoin, you
• 31:50
  know, roughly in the 80 to 100 KA 120K region.
• 31:55
  And you know, they believe like I make 50 KA year.
• 31:59
  I've missed this train. I've missed this opportunity to
• 32:02
  look at this. What's the latest thing now?
• 32:05
  I think it's mean coins, right? Look at this.
• 32:09
  Trump. Coin.
• 32:10
  Yeah, exactly right. Look at this Trump coin.
• 32:12
  Like I could buy more Trump coin than I caught than I can
• 32:16
  Bitcoin. So, you know, are people still
• 32:18
  late? Are people still late to
• 32:20
  Bitcoin? Are people late to Bitcoin?
• 32:21
  We started this podcast with it. It's going to have an Infinity
• 32:26
  value. As it does, a lot of those
• 32:28
  bitcoiners trading in Bitcoin will trade their Bitcoin for
• 32:32
  services that provide them value, and it'll expand around
• 32:36
  the world. And more and more and more and
• 32:38
  more, we are so early on this path.
• 32:40
  Is there a perception we're late?
• 32:43
  There's a perception we're late. It's just perception.
• 32:46
  And what that's saying is we're so early on this path that this
• 32:48
  is going to be, it's going to just be chaotic.
• 32:51
  It's going to be really chaotic. And most people and many people
• 32:54
  won't know how early and maybe maybe they'll be the same.
• 32:58
  When I thought I was late, right in 2017, because my technology
• 33:03
  team told me in 2011 and I dismissed it.
• 33:07
  When I first was in, too, I thought I was late.
• 33:10
  And when you look around at the world and you realize, wait,
• 33:13
  there's not 8 billion people talking about this yet, right?
• 33:16
  We're talking about what what this is.
• 33:17
  We are so crazy early. But will most people know that?
• 33:20
  No, most people won't know that. It's really interesting that you
• 33:23
  brought up when you got in, because I got in roughly the
• 33:26
  same time, 2016, 2016, 2017 era. And I remember I knew people
• 33:32
  that got in at $50.00 or $100 and $200 and I was like, you
• 33:37
  mean like bitcoins at 1000 bucks or bitcoins at 3000.
• 33:40
  You know, like the hell no. Like this is insanity.
• 33:44
  And now, you know, sitting at these upper bounds and, you
• 33:47
  know, crosses 6 figures for a little bit, you're just like
• 33:52
  what? Was I thinking why shouldn't I
• 33:55
  back up I. Shouldn't I shouldn't like took
• 33:58
  it out loads or like anything possible, right?
• 34:01
  So yeah, I completely agree. And it's really interesting
• 34:04
  because you talk to the OGOGS, right?
• 34:07
  Like the people that were buying it at a dollar or two dollars
• 34:11
  and they say the exact same thing because they met someone
• 34:13
  that bought it at like. $0.50 Yeah.
• 34:15
  Yeah, $0.10, you know, so it's just interesting the the the
• 34:19
  relative this out. I want to hear your story in
• 34:21
  terms of you, the process of you getting orange pelt, right, very
• 34:25
  successful entrepreneur, built companies, managed teams.
• 34:29
  Why did you feel like you had the necessity to see something
• 34:32
  like Bitcoin? What interested you in it?
• 34:34
  I believe that we're all, a lot of times you'll hear something
• 34:38
  many times and then somebody else say so or you'll see
• 34:42
  something different and then you'll, and that was your idea
• 34:46
  the whole time. So I can't tell you because even
• 34:49
  if I go back to 2011, my technology team, which was
• 34:53
  unreal and I trusted them and everything, why didn't I trust
• 34:56
  them here? And then you'd hear about this
• 34:59
  again, then you'd hear about it again.
• 35:01
  And so in 2017 and I didn't, it wasn't a big bet.
• 35:04
  I just I thought, OK, I'm going to just I'm going to play with
• 35:07
  this, I'm going to put some in. But it wasn't really until
• 35:11
  really in 2019, two thousand and eighteen, 2019, as I was writing
• 35:15
  my book and as I was writing my book, breaking down how these
• 35:19
  two systems were different, how the technology was going to move
• 35:22
  faster and faster and people weren't ready to recognize and
• 35:25
  what would the existing system do?
• 35:28
  It was really through that process and in, I couldn't
• 35:32
  figure out a fix to that because the system, the system we lived
• 35:36
  in and most people measured in and I lived in and measured,
• 35:39
  couldn't resolve the conflict that I was talking about.
• 35:41
  And all the human action from that system would divide us and
• 35:45
  it would get worse and worse and worse like we're seeing today.
• 35:48
  And so through that process, that's when I really started
• 35:52
  driving into Bitcoin purchasing more understanding it, But to
• 35:56
  even say at the end of the book, I specifically didn't make it a
• 35:59
  Bitcoin book because I wanted to, for myself to, I wanted to
• 36:03
  get to the root of the problem 1st.
• 36:06
  And so there was only one paragraph about Bitcoin in the
• 36:09
  book. And I've said this on multiple
• 36:11
  podcasts, but I at that time, even though I was buying a lot
• 36:17
  of it, I, I certainly didn't understand Bitcoin like I
• 36:20
  understand it now. I assumed it had about a 5%
• 36:24
  probability of failure. I understood nodes, I understood
• 36:27
  how it worked. But I, some of the questions
• 36:29
  that people asked today, why it, why it'll centralized, why it'll
• 36:32
  fail, I went through all of the same things.
• 36:34
  I would say I perhaps had a for me, when I look at some of the
• 36:40
  the arguments against at least some of the nonsense arguments
• 36:42
  against it, I almost like that's cute because, because, because I
• 36:48
  was once there too. And I spent so much time
• 36:51
  attacking this to say my general principle is this if 5000 years,
• 36:56
  we've never had a decentralized secure protocol bounded by
• 36:59
  energy. And this was this different
• 37:01
  enough to withstand the worst in us, the greed, the fear, the
• 37:07
  worst in us. Was this different?
• 37:09
  Could it resolve that conflict? And at first that why I said 5%
• 37:13
  probability of failure is I didn't think so.
• 37:16
  I didn't think as all of these attacks came that this could
• 37:20
  stay decentralized and secure. And then as I, as I got way
• 37:23
  deeper, I realized because of the way the nodes work, because
• 37:27
  of the way they, because of the way the free market works, I
• 37:30
  actually can move my time into the system.
• 37:34
  And if I choose this, it doesn't matter what everybody else, as
• 37:38
  long as there's enough people who are choosing this, it's
• 37:40
  protected. And then more and more people
• 37:43
  would do that they can actually move their.
• 37:45
  And so that's what you're seeing.
• 37:46
  You're seeing more and more people move their time into this
• 37:52
  this network protocol and that that their time is resulting in
• 37:56
  a whole bunch of layers of technology in if you said
• 37:59
  lightning and fediment and and E cash and Noster and other things
• 38:04
  that are being built to protect to essentially expand the free
• 38:09
  market while the other word market is centralizing and and
• 38:13
  dying. And so we are all knows we are
• 38:15
  literally Bitcoin. Yeah.
• 38:17
  And the more and more of us that are moving into it, the stronger
• 38:20
  it becomes. Stronger it becomes yes, it's a
• 38:22
  way of looking at the world, yeah.
• 38:24
  And it's a way of of protecting essentially your time and your
• 38:27
  wealth, right. But there's also a a spiritual
• 38:30
  component, A philosophical component and ideological
• 38:33
  component that's baked into it as well.
• 38:35
  Yeah, which that phenomenon is really interesting because it's
• 38:38
  like, which is money, but it's a lot deeper than that.
• 38:42
  So much deeper you've. Said Bitcoin fails if it doesn't
• 38:46
  become a medium of exchange. What do you mean by that?
• 38:50
  So we, we already talked a little bit about it.
• 38:52
  If people are, so if people are centralizing and it's the medium
• 38:56
  of exchange is in the Fiat currency, then it has to fail
• 39:01
  because they're, they're trusting it like they trusted
• 39:04
  gold only and gold failed. So we know for sure that if
• 39:08
  nobody's running, no spending in it, if you're spending in the
• 39:13
  centralizing currency and that centralizing currency is based
• 39:17
  on theft, then you're part of the theft, you're part of that,
• 39:20
  you're part of that economic system that has to centralized
• 39:24
  further. You might get rich in it, but it
• 39:26
  has to centralized further. Whereas if you're spending in
• 39:30
  the network protocol, that's not part of that system, you're part
• 39:33
  of the first global free market that's ever existed.
• 39:36
  Got you. What's really interesting, you
• 39:38
  know, is when I hear Secretary of Commerce Howard Lutnick
• 39:43
  continue to essentially say that a Bitcoin is a commodity, I
• 39:48
  think on on another podcast, he says it it has to be seen as a
• 39:52
  commodity. It can't be seen as money.
• 39:54
  And then I start to connect the dots.
• 39:56
  The IMF sure did put a lot of of effort into essentially trying
• 40:02
  to pressure a sovereign country into reversing the Bitcoin law.
• 40:07
  That would essentially make Bitcoin legal tender.
• 40:10
  Now, if you look under the hood, it still functions as money.
• 40:14
  There's no cat, There's no tax implications if you use Bitcoin
• 40:18
  as as money in El Salvador. But they really put a lot of
• 40:22
  effort to try to force El Salvador into saying no, no, no
• 40:25
  Bitcoin. It can't be a legal tender.
• 40:28
  It has to be something else. And I'm just connecting the dots
• 40:31
  with what Howard Lutnick is saying is like Bitcoin is a
• 40:33
  commodity, Bitcoin is a commodity, and then I'm
• 40:35
  connecting the dots with everything that you're saying
• 40:38
  there are. Any thoughts on that?
• 40:40
  This is something I saw five years ago, that this would have
• 40:44
  to play out, that's why. And the people would take
• 40:46
  different sides and it's going to be chaotic and we won't know
• 40:50
  what side somebody has actually on until they choose and they
• 40:54
  out themselves from first principles.
• 40:57
  The systems are incompatible together.
• 41:00
  So that would make perfect sense that the IMF, which is largely
• 41:04
  controlled by the, by the US World Bank and everyone else, if
• 41:09
  that was the system that they wanted, or let let's not say
• 41:13
  they certain people in, in, in parts of the government or
• 41:17
  organization wanted. It would make perfect sense that
• 41:20
  this couldn't be a currency. Perfect sense.
• 41:24
  And you would do everything possible to slow it down from
• 41:27
  being a currency, including Co opting it and making the rails
• 41:32
  of your currency easier to transact into it.
• 41:35
  Your currency being tether or equivalent or stable coin.
• 41:40
  Because what is a stable coin? It's a guaranteed lost coin.
• 41:44
  That's all it is. Gains.
• 41:45
  It's gains its stability by losing against well.
• 41:48
  I have a question for you regarding stable coins, because
• 41:50
  I think Bitcoiners had this theory that specifically in
• 41:54
  countries that had relatively stable and unstable Fiat
• 41:58
  currencies that Bitcoin was going to come in and it was
• 42:01
  going to be widely adopted. Seems like stable coins have
• 42:05
  been becoming wildly a lot adopted specifically in the
• 42:08
  Global South. So why would that be true?
• 42:11
  And why would there a couple of things disable?
• 42:14
  Quinn gives 10 to 100 times better, better than those
• 42:18
  people's currency. Those people have always wanted
• 42:21
  US currency because it though is relative to their currency,
• 42:24
  doesn't lose money as fast. Yeah, so it still loses money,
• 42:27
  but it doesn't lose as fast. And.
• 42:29
  And then we talk about perception, right?
• 42:31
  We talk about an understanding of a system change.
• 42:35
  Of course they're going to move to stablecoins because they have
• 42:38
  something that's better than better than this.
• 42:41
  And at the same time, five years ago Bitcoin wasn't, it couldn't
• 42:45
  really act as a medium of exchange.
• 42:47
  It's now being able to be act as a medium of exchange.
• 42:50
  So stablecoins had an advantage there and they had a perception
• 42:54
  advantage with a lot of the lot of people in third world nations
• 42:57
  that wanted the US dollar. Yeah.
• 43:00
  So it would be natural that that would that would happen.
• 43:02
  The question is, if it's only that, then you have two
• 43:05
  different systems. That system is a centralizing
• 43:08
  system. It has to extract more and more
• 43:10
  and more. A lot of people inside it are
• 43:13
  going to get hurt eventually. And it's how many people move
• 43:17
  their time and energy to Bitcoin.
• 43:19
  Yeah. So it's very difficult.
• 43:22
  It's been very difficult for me to fully wrap my head around.
• 43:25
  I think it was the last podcast that we did that it finally
• 43:29
  clicked in my head. I don't remember that.
• 43:32
  Yeah, right. I was like, whoa.
• 43:35
  But just for the sake of this conversation, right, The general
• 43:39
  consensus for most people right now is or not most people.
• 43:43
  Yeah, I would say most people and and the academics and the
• 43:47
  economists, they would make the argument that inflation is
• 43:51
  necessary because if if without inflation, people wouldn't
• 43:54
  spend, you know, governments wouldn't be able to, you know,
• 43:57
  pay their obligations. What would be your arguments
• 44:00
  against that? Yeah, so let's break those down
• 44:04
  one at a time so people wouldn't spend.
• 44:07
  So let's let's look at the counter.
• 44:10
  So your TV's, your computer equipment, anything with Moore's
• 44:13
  Law attached to it falls in price each year or you gain more
• 44:18
  value each year. Do you still buy a phone each
• 44:21
  year or every two years even though, you know, two years
• 44:24
  later you're going to have a better phone?
• 44:26
  Answer is yes, right now. Do you still buy food?
• 44:30
  And answer is yes. Would you still buy food?
• 44:32
  Answer is yes. There's so many different things
• 44:35
  that that you would still buy. And by the way, that argument
• 44:39
  with those things also assumes monetary pricing increase in
• 44:43
  those things. Those things will be far
• 44:44
  cheaper. But you would still buy.
• 44:46
  Yeah, we don't buy because because the counter argument to
• 44:49
  that, if we go one step deeper would be the only reason you buy
• 44:54
  is because if you don't, we'll steal your money.
• 44:57
  Because that's what you're saying.
• 44:59
  If if people don't, if we don't have an inflationary rate,
• 45:02
  people won't buy. Which is absolutely.
• 45:04
  Just change those words. Just change those words.
• 45:08
  We have to steal people's money otherwise they won't buy.
• 45:12
  And we have to steal more and more of it to make them buy.
• 45:16
  Seems like why would you want to build a system based on that
• 45:19
  theft? All the economists are right
• 45:22
  from the perspective of the debt based system would collapse
• 45:27
  without if you allowed deflation.
• 45:29
  And if the money is so all money is loaned into existence.
• 45:33
  When you go to a bank and and get a loan, that money is
• 45:37
  created out of the thin air to give you a loan.
• 45:39
  So you have an interest rate on that loan.
• 45:41
  So if all of that money globally was paid back, there was no
• 45:44
  doubt. Yeah, there'd be no money.
• 45:46
  Yeah, right. So you can see why if you had
• 45:49
  allowed deflation where prices get cheaper and cheaper, that
• 45:52
  loan gets more and more expensive because you don't have
• 45:55
  the money to be able to service the loan and that liquidates
• 45:58
  that entire debt stock. So the economists are right from
• 46:01
  the perspective of a credit based economy requires inflation
• 46:06
  to survive. But they're conflating do we
• 46:10
  require a credit based economy? Do.
• 46:13
  They need or it is that system needed.
• 46:15
  That system absolutely requires it, and that system is
• 46:19
  incompatible with the free market.
• 46:20
  And that's why it requires coercion in order to continue
• 46:25
  happening. And that's why the coercion will
• 46:27
  just continue to increase and increase and increase.
• 46:30
  And all of those things are centralization.
• 46:33
  Yeah, right. All of those things create more
• 46:35
  and more the little, the, the little companies can't survive.
• 46:38
  The little banks can't survive they because it has to be
• 46:42
  centralized more and more over over time.
• 46:45
  It is not a free market. It's the opposite of a free
• 46:47
  market. It has to misallocate capital.
• 46:50
  It has to mathematically has to government has to get bigger
• 46:54
  because you're usurping the free market and as you do, and those
• 46:58
  people can't live freely and have great ideas that contribute
• 47:01
  to other people and society. The centralized market has to
• 47:04
  tell them what to do. So it has to be manipulation,
• 47:07
  coercion, control everywhere in that system.
• 47:10
  And there's so much noise around conflating those two things, two
• 47:17
  things. And that's actually what that's
• 47:18
  what Bitcoins repricing. Yeah, free pricing, all of that
• 47:21
  nonsense because it doesn't care.
• 47:23
  Every 10 minutes, new block, it doesn't care.
• 47:27
  Doesn't care what Drew Powell says.
• 47:28
  Yeah. It doesn't care what Trump says.
• 47:30
  Doesn't care what she says, doesn't it?
• 47:33
  Doesn't care. TikTok next blog and then I I
• 47:36
  love this website called Priced in Bitcoin and it just shows you
• 47:40
  just like everything goes down. Energy prices, Yes.
• 47:43
  Prices, Food prices, All prices. Why would that happen?
• 47:46
  Because the natural state of the free market is deflation.
• 47:49
  Yeah. And Bitcoin is pricing it
• 47:50
  perfectly. Yeah.
• 47:51
  First global free. Market, yeah.
• 47:52
  And then and then you see and then it's, it's interesting
• 47:54
  because when you see that and then you compare and contrast
• 47:57
  with what you know the politicians are seeing on TV and
• 48:00
  you're like, we kind of. Already fixed this problem.
• 48:02
  It's already fixed, right. So and and and so now I'll say
• 48:07
  you're three different people, three different buckets of
• 48:09
  people. One you're you and I, we price
• 48:12
  in Bitcoin and many other bitcoiners that understand this
• 48:16
  at this end, we price in Bitcoin.
• 48:18
  We spend all our time in Bitcoin.
• 48:19
  We spend as much time as we can in it.
• 48:22
  We contribute our time to this new global system.
• 48:26
  What would our lives look like direct response of this
• 48:29
  competitive, it would be a mirror image.
• 48:31
  The more time you spent it would be it would get better and
• 48:34
  better in that system. You're a bitcoiner that prices
• 48:37
  in the Fiat system, right? You think bitcoins going up and
• 48:41
  from your perspective it is going up.
• 48:44
  You're likely to centralized your clients, you'd likely to
• 48:47
  take more risk, but for you, you're making more money.
• 48:51
  Your asset is going up is you think it's only an asset.
• 48:54
  Your asset is going up faster than other assets.
• 48:58
  And from your perspective, you're right too.
• 49:00
  You're not in Bitcoin at all. You're this camp, the middle
• 49:04
  camp that's pricing Bitcoin. You're not in Bitcoin at all.
• 49:07
  Your government is telling you that those big monopolies are
• 49:10
  stealing your money and you need to vote for me.
• 49:13
  You're right to and you're getting destroyed over and over
• 49:18
  and over again. Or you're on the other side of
• 49:20
  that and you think it's the socialist and you're on, you're
• 49:23
  on the technocrat side that transferring more power control.
• 49:27
  You're right to. That's what.
• 49:29
  So from your perspective on this system, all all would exist.
• 49:34
  It seems like as, as as a movement, because it's really
• 49:38
  what this is. We, we have a major narrative
• 49:41
  problem, like we need more education, more narrative, at
• 49:46
  least to get people on our side. Or or when you say that isn't
• 49:50
  even necessary. Not, not really.
• 49:52
  I just so in a, in a decentralized secure protocol,
• 49:55
  it's bound to be that's never existed, that never existed in
• 49:58
  human history. It's, it's our own cognitive
• 50:02
  dissonance falling away, coming to, to understand that the truth
• 50:08
  that then moves more and more people over.
• 50:11
  But it's there is no one narrative in in Bitcoin and I
• 50:15
  don't know if there should be anyone narrative from Bitcoin.
• 50:18
  I would say maybe not the narrative of Bitcoin, but I'm
• 50:21
  saying the narrative versus the existing system, the Fiat system
• 50:24
  versus the Bitcoin system. Well, I do, as you know, this do
• 50:28
  a ton of podcasts and let's just use you and I as an example.
• 50:32
  And this is how I think about it just about everybody in the
• 50:35
  world. And with you meet people, they
• 50:38
  impact you positively or negatively or whatever.
• 50:40
  And and you come away changed. Yeah.
• 50:43
  Our conversation when the light bulb went on.
• 50:46
  Yeah, right. It changed your perspective, of
• 50:49
  course. And so before that you were in
• 50:51
  that middle camp about Bitcoin. Yeah, right.
• 50:53
  Yeah. And then you went you went
• 50:55
  deeper. Yeah.
• 50:56
  And we, I did a podcast with Natalie recently that's I think
• 51:00
  now has 185,000 view views. And that wasn't supposed to be a
• 51:04
  podcast. It was, she was writing her
• 51:07
  book. We, we were really good friends.
• 51:09
  I, I, she's read my book three times and she was writing her
• 51:13
  book and she couldn't explain to her editor what I meant.
• 51:16
  So she'd so she said, could we just do a non podcast?
• 51:21
  Can you just help me through this?
• 51:23
  And it was through that, that then she released it as a
• 51:25
  podcast because it clicked for her, clicked how different it
• 51:29
  was how, but it took a long time together, same with Peter
• 51:32
  McCormack. Like I think, I think I was on
• 51:35
  this podcast 3 or 4 times and the light finally went on to
• 51:39
  what I was saying. So for me, I feel like I've been
• 51:42
  saying this over and over and over and over again, but that's
• 51:46
  why I say it's the cognitive dissonance from moving from one
• 51:49
  system to another. And I went through it too.
• 51:51
  It's very difficult because you're you're in the matrix,
• 51:54
  right? To use that examle, you're in
• 51:56
  the Matrix and you're trying to imagine a world outside of the
• 52:00
  Matrix. It's unimaginable.
• 52:02
  Yeah, it is imaginable. Like for me, it's for me at
• 52:05
  least. I think maybe I'm totally wrong,
• 52:08
  but I think it, it's perfectly clear.
• 52:11
  It's perfectly clear. Maybe I'm a terrible.
• 52:14
  Maybe the problem is I can't explain it very well, but it's.
• 52:19
  But I see a world with 8 billion people in service of 8 billion
• 52:22
  people. I see a world that looks totally
• 52:25
  unlike. That what is that world 10 years
• 52:27
  from now describe? It so in 10 years it's still
• 52:30
  probably it still probably isn't all the way there.
• 52:33
  So what would get it all the way there our choices.
• 52:36
  OK, Will most people make the choice that I'm making or you
• 52:39
  met you've already made within 10 years?
• 52:41
  Unlikely. Which is reclaim their
• 52:44
  sovereignty, but. Holes what spend spend your time
• 52:47
  in a free market that you complete.
• 52:49
  What What about the Bitcoin scaling?
• 52:52
  Vast majority of people won't be able to transact on the main
• 52:54
  chain. So one of the words I use is
• 52:57
  open decentralized secure protocol bounded by money or by
• 53:00
  by energy. So if you use the word protocol,
• 53:04
  technologies are winner take, most protocols are winner take
• 53:07
  all it really important open protocols win.
• 53:10
  And we we see we saw that the last protocol anybody knows
• 53:14
  about probably before electricity would be to the
• 53:18
  Internet and it comes in layers, right.
• 53:21
  And you and and so the Internet all around the globe, you have a
• 53:25
  choice to be on it or off of a North Korea is off of it, right?
• 53:29
  Their citizens can't you can't can't get on it.
• 53:32
  Look at what happens to the country.
• 53:34
  Even if you're in China behind the great Firewall and you run
• 53:37
  AVPN, you can have all of the Internet.
• 53:40
  Nobody can stop it. So but how did it emerge?
• 53:44
  It came in layers. Yeah, First layer was by Darfa
• 53:47
  in the late 60s and it took Tim Berners Lee in 1989.
• 53:51
  It took 20 years of layers to be able to to build the Internet.
• 53:57
  And then all of the innovation that happened on top of that
• 54:00
  took another, call it 20 years. Just about everything we do is
• 54:04
  on top of that protocol, protocol today.
• 54:07
  And most people, when they're talking about Bitcoin today,
• 54:10
  they're talking about Bitcoin like it emerged in 1989, OK?
• 54:16
  And they're comparing it to the Internet.
• 54:18
  You think that's where we are in bitcoins?
• 54:20
  No, no, no. When I'm talking about Bitcoin,
• 54:23
  I'm talking about where we were in 1969 right now.
• 54:28
  No, no, no, no. But that the Bitcoin that you
• 54:30
  know that most people are talking about as a store of
• 54:32
  value is the first layer of the protocol TCP IP.
• 54:38
  The next layer comes in and it's a transport layer like lightning
• 54:43
  liquid, no. And that that would be another
• 54:48
  layer or kind of layer 2 and 2 1/2.
• 54:52
  And each of these layers has trade-offs, but provides more
• 54:55
  functionality without having another coin, without having a
• 54:58
  bridge to another coin, without having a tether, without having
• 55:01
  a. I understand some of the things
• 55:04
  that people wanted through the box sized wars.
• 55:06
  I understand some of the people things people wanted through
• 55:09
  privacy coins and other because what they, what they were saying
• 55:14
  is if this doesn't have privacy, it will be killed.
• 55:20
  And if you just, if you just said that they're right, right?
• 55:24
  Because if you said later on the centralization and if you do, if
• 55:27
  you didn't have privacy, one of the reasons why the nodes in
• 55:29
  Bitcoin is so, so it makes it so secure is you can't find all
• 55:33
  these nodes all over the place. Yeah, right.
• 55:36
  They're all hidden behind toward browsers and they're all over
• 55:39
  globally distributed. So if you use that same example
• 55:43
  and you said you had as open if Bitcoin was an open monetary
• 55:47
  network and you could see everybody's transactions, right,
• 55:50
  which it is if the government, if everything's centralized in
• 55:53
  the government and everybody could see that, then eventually
• 55:56
  you would expect those people to be at risk.
• 55:59
  So I completely understand the privacy aspect of why people
• 56:03
  wanted that privacy coin, but those people made a it had to be
• 56:08
  bounded by energy, decentralized them to secure.
• 56:10
  First you had to add privacy in layers, right?
• 56:14
  You had to add. So that's what fettiments does.
• 56:16
  That's what the cashew does. You had privacy and fettiment.
• 56:22
  Now you essentially replicate that known nature of that coin
• 56:25
  at the and you have maybe thousands, millions of
• 56:29
  federations and end time, all self sovereign that provide
• 56:34
  privacy, abstraction, communication, privacy and and
• 56:38
  such. And this is very early still,
• 56:40
  but it gives a scaling layer that cannot be found and it
• 56:44
  gives a resiliency to to to Bitcoin that that can scale all
• 56:48
  around the globe without that that attack vector.
• 56:52
  These things needed to be in place before the system
• 56:56
  centralized. Yes, right.
• 56:57
  And that's what I'm talking about in the free market,
• 56:59
  whether it's Fetty, whether it's whether it's Cashew, whether
• 57:02
  it's, whether it's Noster, whether it's, it's a combination
• 57:05
  of all of these things predicting where the value would
• 57:09
  need to be building in layers on top of everyone that that build
• 57:13
  this parallel system. Literally every you have
• 57:16
  parallel Internet being built that everything is going to move
• 57:19
  to yeah, in time. And so so you have to
• 57:25
  peer-to-peer, which is peer-to-peer, which is which the
• 57:27
  the Internet we know of got got captured and consolidated and
• 57:31
  you're being farmed in it. Yeah, because of that
• 57:34
  centralized, that centralized knowledge, everything in that is
• 57:39
  essentially farming you. It's essentially like if I send
• 57:44
  you even signal right? I send you a signal message.
• 57:47
  It's me Signal server, you right.
• 57:50
  Where is that signal server you're trusting?
• 57:52
  That signal server is, you know, doing the right thing.
• 57:55
  And then I have a buddy founder of Start 9 Matt Hill and like
• 58:02
  you can essentially run your own server at home.
• 58:05
  And instead of me sending a message to a server, then
• 58:08
  sending it to you, it'd be my server is sending a message to
• 58:11
  your servers direct through Tor and it's peer.
• 58:15
  To peer, and that's a that's a great service is there's a
• 58:17
  really good example of, of a service that builds up or
• 58:21
  certain iron that builds up to solve this problem and extends
• 58:25
  the protocol in a whole bunch of different ways that allow you to
• 58:30
  escape that matrix. And more and more people do it
• 58:33
  because they, they realize that the cost, the true cost of that
• 58:37
  centralization and and so who owns the server firms?
• 58:41
  Who owns the like, like you can't even find the numbers, but
• 58:44
  the NSA probably runs the most compute.
• 58:48
  Where did that money come from from They're running that most
• 58:51
  compute, right? It's coming from the same from
• 58:53
  the centralizing system. And all of your stuff is going
• 58:57
  through that. China would have a similar
• 59:00
  thing. So all of the people inside this
• 59:03
  system that think that they're making these free choices.
• 59:06
  That system is is changing your mind, right?
• 59:09
  When you go to Google, when you go to Facebook and what you see,
• 59:13
  it's actually feeding the thing that.
• 59:15
  Hey, is this why you've chosen to opt out of X and go to?
• 59:19
  Poster completely yeah, is Yeah, you know this.
• 59:24
  I didn't. I'm not trying to be popular.
• 59:28
  My time matters, right. Yeah.
• 59:30
  I had left behind 375,000 followers on on X because there
• 59:36
  was no fix from that system. And I found it hypocritical when
• 59:40
  Elon was talking about free speech and what that would look
• 59:43
  like when you know it's can't be you can't you when you when you
• 59:47
  know the centralized system can't be.
• 59:49
  He makes different decisions in US than he does in China.
• 59:53
  Yeah, right. Why?
• 59:55
  Because he wants to sell cars there.
• 59:57
  Why? He wants to sell satellite.
• 59:58
  And all of these things are in the inside that system.
• 1:00:02
  Nostra is exactly the same as Bitcoin, right?
• 1:00:04
  It like we're very similar when the similar conversations.
• 1:00:08
  Well, Nostra won't won't work. It doesn't have as much value as
• 1:00:11
  this. What do you think people said
• 1:00:13
  about Bitcoin earlier? Same thing.
• 1:00:14
  Same thing. Yeah, right.
• 1:00:15
  It's just earlier. Yeah, right.
• 1:00:17
  And I and I realized I could move my time to the thing that
• 1:00:20
  was earlier and make a difference in that thing.
• 1:00:23
  Yeah. Absolutely.
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• 1:01:24
  Now, one of the things that you've told me in the past that
• 1:01:26
  absolutely fascinating me is that you've said AI is dangerous
• 1:01:31
  under a Fiat standard. AI is safe under a Bitcoin
• 1:01:36
  standard. What do you mean by that?
• 1:01:38
  Well, I just did this podcast with George Gammon.
• 1:01:40
  That was, it's funny, George, it's same thing that you, just
• 1:01:45
  like I wrote in my book that because of the exponential
• 1:01:49
  change in AI, I wrote a paragraph that said we measured
• 1:01:54
  AI today in decades. Very shortly we'll be measuring
• 1:01:57
  in years, then quarters, then months, then minutes, then
• 1:02:00
  seconds. And so what's happening right
• 1:02:02
  now is that's happening. What is that?
• 1:02:05
  It's productivity gains at a massive scale, a staggering
• 1:02:09
  scale. So if you don't use AI in your
• 1:02:11
  business, I'm sure you're probably starting to use it in
• 1:02:14
  your podcasting. You have to, right?
• 1:02:16
  Or you don't have to. But if you don't, your cost is
• 1:02:19
  way higher and you can't compete, right?
• 1:02:22
  And if you, if you do it, your cost is way lower.
• 1:02:25
  And so you, you are going to remove labor and use AI
• 1:02:30
  otherwise you won't be a business.
• 1:02:31
  Yeah, other people will beat you.
• 1:02:33
  Yeah. And why wouldn't you be your
• 1:02:34
  business? Because people will will follow
• 1:02:37
  the business that's cheaper, better, faster, right.
• 1:02:39
  The follower follow that instead of going for the higher, slower,
• 1:02:43
  more expensive business. Yeah.
• 1:02:44
  So every bit every business, because we're on the other side
• 1:02:47
  of it searching for more value, has to use AI.
• 1:02:51
  Every person has to use AI. And so that's staggering
• 1:02:55
  productivity gains. And those people that are
• 1:02:58
  working today, what do they do? They have to manually do it.
• 1:03:04
  I'm I'm saying what do the people that are going to be
• 1:03:06
  replaced by the AI do? There were this many jobs and
• 1:03:10
  now there's this many less jobs. Where do those people go they
• 1:03:15
  don't like? Where is there to go?
• 1:03:18
  So perfect. Now let's, let's so we know for
• 1:03:21
  sure AI is going to happen faster and faster.
• 1:03:24
  We know for sure we're going to use it, right.
• 1:03:27
  We know for sure we're going to choose more value.
• 1:03:31
  Yeah. From the companies that use it.
• 1:03:33
  Yeah. In other words, you have one day
• 1:03:35
  you could have one company producing you or one company
• 1:03:39
  with one person giving you so much value because of the tools
• 1:03:44
  that company replaces thousands of people that you gave you the
• 1:03:47
  same value before or store or what you did before.
• 1:03:50
  So you'll use that. Where do those people go?
• 1:03:54
  Where do they go? OK, that's in the world I
• 1:03:57
  describe on Bitcoin, prices fall by exactly the rate that those
• 1:04:02
  people go. Wait, wait, wait.
• 1:04:05
  What? Why?
• 1:04:06
  Because it's productivity that the productivity that we choose,
• 1:04:09
  the prices fall by that they don't need the job anymore
• 1:04:14
  because prices keep falling and falling and falling.
• 1:04:16
  Oh my. God.
• 1:04:17
  OK, see, it's another Jeff Booth mind breaking moment.
• 1:04:21
  And it is, but it's funny that and there maybe maybe I'm just
• 1:04:27
  bad at communicating it because it's it's that's what they.
• 1:04:32
  What did I say last time the penny dropped?
• 1:04:33
  The penny dropped twice. They keep falling, they keep
• 1:04:36
  falling, they keep falling forever.
• 1:04:38
  And so the the job that you think you need to pay for the
• 1:04:42
  artificial prices that are going, going up is only needed
• 1:04:45
  because of the artificial prices going.
• 1:04:48
  Yeah, it's not needed. You live in abundance.
• 1:04:51
  You continually live in if prices kept falling, if if
• 1:04:55
  prices fell by 5% a year, then 10% a year as the natural course
• 1:04:59
  and then 15%. If people, if people lived in
• 1:05:03
  abundance, what, what incentive would you have to to build
• 1:05:06
  things, for example? So there's always going to be
• 1:05:10
  things to solve, OK, Always. In the free market, you get paid
• 1:05:15
  more than than somebody else for creating value.
• 1:05:17
  How do you get paid? You get paid by creating value
• 1:05:20
  for somebody else. Yeah.
• 1:05:22
  The more people you create value for, the more you get paid.
• 1:05:25
  Then what happens? Somebody sees the value you're
• 1:05:28
  making making, and they compete with you and they remove your
• 1:05:32
  value. And you have to commute harder
• 1:05:34
  and harder to provide more value.
• 1:05:36
  And the output of that is all prices continue to fall.
• 1:05:39
  You win, they win, everyone wins.
• 1:05:42
  Because even if you weren't part of that equation, those people
• 1:05:45
  competing create value for you. When prices are allowed to be in
• 1:05:49
  the free market, the only way you lose from that equation is
• 1:05:54
  if you live in a centralized market.
• 1:05:56
  The prices are artificially made to rise.
• 1:06:00
  I see what you're saying. So then you'd lose your job.
• 1:06:05
  All prices are higher. And you wouldn't be.
• 1:06:07
  You don't know what to do. And you wouldn't be returned to
• 1:06:09
  the government who's creating the problem.
• 1:06:11
  And you say save me, Save me. And they create a new program to
• 1:06:14
  save you that. Where does money come from?
• 1:06:17
  From you. Yeah.
• 1:06:18
  In this world, you just get better and better.
• 1:06:21
  But it is a perfect expression of humankind trading with each
• 1:06:25
  other in service of humankind, that is.
• 1:06:29
  And Bitcoin is imposing that discipline.
• 1:06:31
  If you own part of Bitcoin, you are already part of that system.
• 1:06:36
  That is mind blowing. So what about highly centralized
• 1:06:43
  countries that essentially depend on this top down control
• 1:06:49
  of their population? They'll get eradicated.
• 1:06:52
  So so so. Bitcoin is terrible for
• 1:06:55
  dictators. OK, why?
• 1:06:58
  So you see the CCP. Essentially.
• 1:07:01
  So why? Why is the CCP so against
• 1:07:03
  Bitcoin? Because it's terrible for
• 1:07:06
  dictators, of course. It's terrible for a centralized
• 1:07:08
  planning system. That's why they want to CBDC.
• 1:07:10
  Yeah, so so. But but again, why?
• 1:07:12
  Why many other nations are wanting CBDCS is the same.
• 1:07:16
  The same reason a really good friend of mine, Alvaro, runs the
• 1:07:19
  Democracy Lab in Costa Rica and he has some stops that I think
• 1:07:24
  it was 10 years ago, 47% of humanity lived in somewhat
• 1:07:31
  democracies, right? So 5053% lived in dictatorships.
• 1:07:37
  Now only 10 years later, I think it's like 80 to 2% live in
• 1:07:43
  somewhat dictatorships. The trend is getting worse and
• 1:07:46
  worse and worse. Why would it get worse and worse
• 1:07:48
  and worse? Because the dictator rises
• 1:07:50
  because of the manipulation of money.
• 1:07:52
  Typically what happens is you go socialism first.
• 1:07:56
  Yeah, and because socialism can't fix that problem, right?
• 1:08:00
  Eventually some someone moves to faster fascism to take back
• 1:08:05
  control and they consolidate more power Dictator and and it
• 1:08:09
  consolidate more control. You can't fix that problem
• 1:08:11
  because it's all broke. Based on money coming forward
• 1:08:14
  officially from somebody else, that should go to them to you.
• 1:08:17
  This is why the problem looks like.
• 1:08:19
  But can't they fund the men with guns?
• 1:08:22
  And can't the free market system not fent fund the men with guns
• 1:08:26
  as efficiently as the centralized system?
• 1:08:30
  Nodes all coming back to nodes, same as nodes on fettiment.
• 1:08:35
  If there was one node in Bitcoin, if the if Bitcoin was
• 1:08:40
  completely open, everybody could see it.
• 1:08:44
  Eventually the men with guns let's first one node, men with
• 1:08:49
  guns would go kill that person. It would be over.
• 1:08:53
  The honest system has never prevailed because the honest
• 1:08:56
  system was always outed where if you were honest against this
• 1:09:01
  overwhelming force against you, this system because it's
• 1:09:05
  decentralized and secure and that decentralization is hidden
• 1:09:08
  around the world, you can't stop it.
• 1:09:11
  Stop one person keeps going. Stop Two People keeps going.
• 1:09:15
  It's just to make an analogy that it's, I'm connecting dots,
• 1:09:18
  Jeff. This is why all the guerrilla
• 1:09:22
  warfare was as successful as it was.
• 1:09:25
  Like you look at Vietnam, If you look at Afghanistan, Afghanistan
• 1:09:28
  was invaded by the British, the Soviets and the Americans.
• 1:09:32
  Super centralized force the latest technology and they got
• 1:09:37
  beat by a bunch of independent nodes with AK-40.
• 1:09:41
  Sevens. And now this, this is the this
• 1:09:44
  is the opposite. This is that a fair analogy?
• 1:09:46
  Yeah, but that that's a war analogy to do it.
• 1:09:48
  This is a peaceful analogy to do it because you all you have to
• 1:09:51
  do is move to a node. You can hide your node node
• 1:09:55
  behind the Tor browser or you can you can be part of this
• 1:09:58
  network. And the more people that are
• 1:09:59
  part of this network running, running nodes, the more safe and
• 1:10:03
  secure you are in a group that it cannot be found, a globally
• 1:10:07
  distributed group. That's, that's, that's what's
• 1:10:09
  protecting it. That's actually why I think
• 1:10:11
  Fetty, Fetty and Fettiment is such a big deal because it
• 1:10:15
  expands that ability for you to do that in a complete private
• 1:10:19
  way and gives you all of your friends and people that you
• 1:10:23
  communications private knows about.
• 1:10:26
  And it expands essentially that node model, yeah, in a guardian
• 1:10:31
  type of model into a way that extends, extends the network.
• 1:10:35
  But yes, that's ultimately they it can't be stopped.
• 1:10:39
  It's so fast. Again, you have to essentially
• 1:10:42
  you have to zoom out. You have to think outside of the
• 1:10:46
  matrix to understand this new system and and it's.
• 1:10:52
  It's difficult to because it's not intuitive, but once you
• 1:10:55
  point it out, you can't Unsee it.
• 1:10:57
  Yeah, So what almost what you have to do and what I did what
• 1:11:00
  you're doing, it wouldn't what your exact once you see it, you
• 1:11:03
  can and then you choose to move your time towards it and be part
• 1:11:07
  of it. But the first step is, is this
• 1:11:10
  true? Like, could this actually
• 1:11:12
  resolve this paradox that we've always lived on, we've always
• 1:11:15
  lived in a control system? Could we actually live in as
• 1:11:18
  something else? And, and when you, when you
• 1:11:21
  understand Satoshi's brilliance and creating, creating this and
• 1:11:25
  what this looks like, and the cypherpunks that risk their
• 1:11:28
  lives to be able to, to free money from state and, and, but
• 1:11:33
  now that network, how big it is already and how many people are
• 1:11:37
  there and it's expanding faster and faster.
• 1:11:40
  Kind of have to ask yourself why would I want to live in this
• 1:11:43
  other system when I can live in this system?
• 1:11:46
  Yeah, yeah, absolutely. What do you think about
• 1:11:49
  MicroStrategy and what they're doing?
• 1:11:52
  I think Michael is, is inventing A playbook for this.
• 1:11:58
  And I think he's he's a genius in this and he's creating an
• 1:12:02
  incredible, incredible vehicle to take him to take advantage of
• 1:12:08
  kind of the Fiat world moving into the Bitcoin world.
• 1:12:11
  There is the centralization risk on some of that.
• 1:12:15
  But he has no more vote in the network than I have and the
• 1:12:18
  network I'm a node. He's a node right now.
• 1:12:22
  I think he's a is very good for Bitcoin.
• 1:12:26
  I think he's, I think he's great.
• 1:12:29
  We'll see in time and again, when I say cheat and everything
• 1:12:32
  else, I'm talking from a game theoretical perspective.
• 1:12:35
  Eventually in time, every single person is going to be forced to
• 1:12:39
  choose the global free market or the centralized coin.
• 1:12:44
  It's going to and, and so we'll see in time what what people
• 1:12:47
  choose when they choose it. But but now I think he's been
• 1:12:51
  fantastic for Bitcoin. I think he's, I think micro, I
• 1:12:55
  own micro strategy and my RSPI think it's a fantastic
• 1:12:59
  investment. I think we think he's great.
• 1:13:02
  So it's, it's essentially it's, it's a net positive, but over
• 1:13:06
  time essentially will kind of reveal.
• 1:13:09
  For me, I've never looked up to people with money.
• 1:13:13
  I've never looked up to people with power.
• 1:13:14
  I've never looked down to people without money or down to people.
• 1:13:18
  I I see everybody is equal. I just see everybody is a genius
• 1:13:22
  in their own capacity and, and having and then I watch for who
• 1:13:27
  do I want to be around? And I can be friends with two
• 1:13:30
  people with vastly different, I can disagree with both of them
• 1:13:34
  in some different ways, but also really like both of them.
• 1:13:38
  So I tried to take the personalities out of this and go
• 1:13:41
  back to, to 1st principles and, and from a first principle, the
• 1:13:47
  natural stay of the free market is deflation.
• 1:13:49
  And So what does that mean it when most people in the world
• 1:13:53
  don't know that? Yeah.
• 1:13:54
  What it means is people are going to choose for the control
• 1:13:58
  system or the free market and in time, and they're going to be
• 1:14:01
  forced to choose. And we'll just watch to what
• 1:14:04
  they chose. So when it's first principle,
• 1:14:08
  first principle is Jeff. So you, you apply that to
• 1:14:12
  relationships, like when when you're talking to someone or
• 1:14:16
  let's say you, you know, I'm sure a lot of people want to
• 1:14:19
  meet you, Jeff, right? Is that something that you take
• 1:14:21
  into account? Everything.
• 1:14:22
  What's the equation in your head?
• 1:14:24
  Is it just, is this person going to be more centralized?
• 1:14:27
  No, no, no, not in that, not in that.
• 1:14:29
  In the relationship. All I care about in a
• 1:14:31
  relationship, I tend to look through kind of the noise and so
• 1:14:36
  at somebody and I tried to see the the best in them.
• 1:14:39
  OK, that's the the I might not, I don't have to agree with
• 1:14:42
  everything they are, but in a relationship that's I care about
• 1:14:45
  the best in that person person. And, and typically not typically
• 1:14:52
  always, I'm not talking about that person behind their back
• 1:14:55
  ever. Of course, if I have something
• 1:14:57
  to say, I say it to them directly.
• 1:14:59
  And and so in in all my relationships, I would say I'm
• 1:15:02
  very present in a relationship. So you and you and I, right?
• 1:15:07
  Even if we don't see each other for a long time, there's a
• 1:15:09
  closeness, there's a we. Continue where we left.
• 1:15:11
  Off and it's very real. It is very and it doesn't even
• 1:15:16
  have to be real for you. It's real for me.
• 1:15:18
  That's how I feel about you. That's how I feel about anybody
• 1:15:22
  I would spend any time in in my life.
• 1:15:25
  And I so a friend of mine said to my to his son, who then said
• 1:15:31
  to me, he didn't ever said it to me.
• 1:15:33
  This friendly going back to do when I was 10 years old, one of
• 1:15:36
  my really good buddies, he goes, he said to his son, he said, so
• 1:15:40
  his son said, my dad told me to learn from you that you take the
• 1:15:45
  best from everybody and allow them to be who they are and then
• 1:15:50
  talk about the best and and those people.
• 1:15:52
  And so that meant a lot because I didn't, I didn't even know his
• 1:15:55
  dad saw that right. So, but that's how that's how I
• 1:15:59
  would say virtually all of my relationships look like.
• 1:16:02
  Has that ever worked against you seeing the the the best?
• 1:16:05
  In people for for sure there's there's some people who have
• 1:16:10
  tried to take advantage of you. If I thought about a line here
• 1:16:16
  and I said on this side, I'm wide open, I'm living in, in
• 1:16:21
  kind of the way I want all the time.
• 1:16:22
  And the risk is sometimes people take advantage of that.
• 1:16:26
  Then then that would be and, and but the benefit is I see way
• 1:16:30
  more great people and I learn way more.
• 1:16:33
  I see hope I see. So it's a, it's a strategy
• 1:16:38
  that's different from a strategy of seeing the worst in people,
• 1:16:42
  closing myself up and seeing less people, right?
• 1:16:46
  And I just think that strategy has way better odds of success.
• 1:16:50
  Can you have friends within the same industry?
• 1:16:53
  What do you mean? Can you have friends within the
• 1:16:56
  industry? In Bitcoin, Yeah, why not?
• 1:17:00
  This is very competitive. But, but, but it's in, it's
• 1:17:04
  competitive. Every single person in in, in
• 1:17:07
  this industry, every single person benefits me because we're
• 1:17:11
  living in the first global free market, whether they I, I
• 1:17:14
  disagree with them or not, whether they win and my company
• 1:17:17
  loses or what we all win. We're living in a in a world it
• 1:17:21
  because it's a competitive global free market where every
• 1:17:25
  single bitcoiner yeah, benefits me because they're working
• 1:17:29
  towards and I benefit them the adoption of Bitcoin and I
• 1:17:32
  benefit them. Maverick.
• 1:17:33
  Kaiser's saying it's Sailor the employee, who is the employee,
• 1:17:37
  the Bitcoin employee of the month.
• 1:17:40
  There's So what I would say is it's actually probably way below
• 1:17:45
  the people we talk about, including me every day.
• 1:17:48
  It's people that are, are unsung heroes.
• 1:17:51
  The, the fight that's going on right now between core and
• 1:17:54
  knots. The the, some of the core
• 1:17:56
  developers, some of the knots develop all of this thing.
• 1:17:59
  The unsung heroes are all of us doing that thing.
• 1:18:03
  Making Bitcoin strong. And what do you think about the
• 1:18:05
  what's happening between core and knots?
• 1:18:08
  It's another another little mini civil war.
• 1:18:10
  It's not. As bad as the block size yeah, I
• 1:18:12
  don't think this is a civil war. I think this is AI think this is
• 1:18:16
  AI can see both I can see both arguments.
• 1:18:18
  Bitcoin mechanic is a good friend I and I think when it
• 1:18:21
  becomes this is just the way it is on on core.
• 1:18:26
  I don't like that, but I can also understand from the from
• 1:18:29
  the core core developers that and this can be a hostile
• 1:18:33
  situation to be a core developer and constantly in this battle
• 1:18:38
  all the time because people care so much.
• 1:18:40
  Yeah, I'm probably not going to take a side and in it because I
• 1:18:45
  can see, I can see both. I can see both sides.
• 1:18:49
  OK, you know, when I started simply many years ago, maybe I
• 1:18:54
  was young and naive. I would start the show with, you
• 1:18:59
  know, will be your you will be your guide through the
• 1:19:02
  separation of money and state and talking to you.
• 1:19:07
  It kind of revitalizes that that outlook that I have, right,
• 1:19:13
  which is, you know, I think you you identify that, you know, the
• 1:19:16
  state, whether they do it on perfect.
• 1:19:18
  It's all about incentives, right?
• 1:19:20
  You know, really does cause a tremendous amount of harm,
• 1:19:23
  whether intentional or unintentional, manipulating
• 1:19:27
  money. So when I talk to you, you're
• 1:19:33
  essentially you are describing a world where money and state will
• 1:19:39
  be separated. It will be separate.
• 1:19:43
  No matter what, it's going to be separated.
• 1:19:45
  It's just a matter of how long it will take.
• 1:19:47
  It's just timing. This isn't.
• 1:19:49
  Again, this is imposing as long as it stays decentralized and
• 1:19:52
  secure. Every time I say as long as it
• 1:19:55
  says these centralized and secure, What I'm really hoping
• 1:19:58
  people here by that is I have a choice.
• 1:20:02
  I can be part of the network. I can run a node today, I can
• 1:20:06
  spend more Bitcoin, I can spend money in Bitcoin and I have a
• 1:20:09
  choice to keeping it decentralized and secure and
• 1:20:12
  nobody can take that choice from me.
• 1:20:14
  When I say as long as it says decentralized and secure, what
• 1:20:17
  I'm really saying is claim your choice.
• 1:20:21
  OK, That, that, that, that, that, that claim that for you
• 1:20:25
  and you will protect that network and you'll see, you'll
• 1:20:28
  see more opportunity in it. If you think it's hard right now
• 1:20:32
  to do it, learn how to do it. It's not very hard.
• 1:20:35
  It's not very hard. No it's not and it's become way
• 1:20:37
  easier. 10 years ago it was like practically impossible.
• 1:20:41
  Now you can build buy a pre built open source node.
• 1:20:44
  Multiple hardware wallet manufacturers, right?
• 1:20:47
  A big fan of cold collar, of course.
• 1:20:49
  What are your thoughts on the strategic Bitcoin Reserve
• 1:20:53
  announcement coming out of the US government?
• 1:20:55
  Of course governments are going to want to acquire more, right?
• 1:20:59
  Ken SIM and a friend of mine and mayor of Vancouver wants to
• 1:21:03
  acquire it on Vancouver's balance sheet.
• 1:21:05
  Why? Because if he acquires it on the
• 1:21:07
  balance sheet, then the money in Vancouver can't be debased and
• 1:21:12
  the services can go further in Vancouver.
• 1:21:15
  That would be the same in any country.
• 1:21:17
  It would be the same thing that would happen in your own
• 1:21:20
  personal life, would happen at A at a business would happen at
• 1:21:24
  the state would happen at the city would happen at a country
• 1:21:28
  exactly the same, the same thing.
• 1:21:29
  So why wouldn't states, countries, cities all all do the
• 1:21:34
  same thing? They will for sure.
• 1:21:36
  They're going to do to do that and they're going to be in
• 1:21:38
  competitive competition with other people doing it.
• 1:21:41
  But what as as people talk about that?
• 1:21:43
  I'm just thinking just go buy more yourself.
• 1:21:46
  Yeah. So you can front run government
• 1:21:49
  still, right? You can front run most of the
• 1:21:52
  global corporations still. That is going to go on forever
• 1:21:56
  like you're going to. Isn't we're so early in this
• 1:21:59
  adoption curve that I would love to see this, the Bitcoin going
• 1:22:04
  into more and more individual hands?
• 1:22:06
  Yeah, yeah. Do you think we've peaked in the
• 1:22:09
  amount of whole coiners? Good question.
• 1:22:15
  I don't know. Probably, probably not because I
• 1:22:19
  think a lot of the coiners, people who hold today will sell
• 1:22:24
  for Fiat dollars and they'll think they will retire and the
• 1:22:27
  move on and other people will replace them, OK.
• 1:22:31
  What I've noticed, Jeff, I think last year, really the last six
• 1:22:36
  or seven months of last year, I went through this kind of
• 1:22:42
  experience and simply where I had a very, very strong, you
• 1:22:46
  know, we're going to remain neutral politically.
• 1:22:48
  We are not going to pick sides. We're not going to say anything
• 1:22:53
  because we believe that our message, our message has to be
• 1:22:56
  all inclusive, right? That's how you get people on
• 1:22:59
  your side of the football. And I think that really switched
• 1:23:03
  when Operation Show .2 point O really started to accelerate and
• 1:23:08
  you had the arrests of, of, of the Samurai wallet developers.
• 1:23:12
  You had Ross Olbrich essentially 2 life sentences.
• 1:23:16
  And then a very wisely and intelligently, you had two
• 1:23:21
  candidates coming in there and basically saying, hey,
• 1:23:23
  Bitcoiners, if you elect me, I'm going to free Ross and I'm going
• 1:23:27
  to end Operation Choke .2 Point O.
• 1:23:30
  And I remember when I started talking about politics, I got so
• 1:23:34
  much heat from Bitcoiners because we, but we do believe in
• 1:23:37
  the theory from the sovereign individual, which is Bitcoin is
• 1:23:40
  going to essentially make politics irrelevant over the
• 1:23:42
  long run. But I think in this last
• 1:23:45
  election, if we did nothing, Ross would still be in prison.
• 1:23:50
  So my question to you is, is Fiat voting still important?
• 1:23:56
  I, I think yes, and and I, but I and I agree with you for the
• 1:24:01
  same reasons. I just so I've been close to
• 1:24:03
  Pierre poliov and he understands us from the sand and in Canada
• 1:24:10
  and I helped him understand this.
• 1:24:12
  I helped him set create self custody.
• 1:24:14
  I helped his wife to create self custody.
• 1:24:17
  And he so far as 3 or 4 weeks ago, maybe a little longer ago
• 1:24:23
  now called and said, listen, Jeff, as we do this, how do we
• 1:24:27
  make the transition? How do we make this transition
• 1:24:31
  from this system that looks like this to to this system?
• 1:24:34
  And prior to that year, a year ago, at one point as he was
• 1:24:38
  going down the rabbit hole, he said he asked same thing you
• 1:24:41
  asked earlier on. How does this protect it?
• 1:24:43
  He asks, are you safe? He asked, are you safe?
• 1:24:46
  Because as he was going down and he was politician party
• 1:24:50
  understands seat get gets a whole bunch of the information
• 1:24:54
  from the and he realizes how broken and how Co opt corrupt
• 1:24:59
  the system is and that's why yes was safe.
• 1:25:02
  So I built personal relationship with him because he's sound
• 1:25:06
  money. Do I think he's perfect or
• 1:25:08
  anything else? Who knows right.
• 1:25:10
  But the best in him that what I was saying before he understands
• 1:25:14
  sound money and why it's so important.
• 1:25:16
  So I for the first time in, in any time, I kind of went out on
• 1:25:23
  a limb and said this and got the same thing that you just said.
• 1:25:26
  And Kearney was Kearney was like, we have a central banker,
• 1:25:30
  like a major central banker that's going to pivot Canada for
• 1:25:34
  further to the left. And it's going to provide a lot
• 1:25:37
  more danger or, or, or the track that Canada's on is going to get
• 1:25:43
  worse, a lot worse, because it's fundamentally unsolvable from
• 1:25:48
  that system. And most people I know are on
• 1:25:51
  that side. I it was, it was staggering to
• 1:25:55
  me because they also know who I am.
• 1:25:57
  Yeah. And it was staggering to me to
• 1:26:00
  watch, watch that. And and then still in the
• 1:26:04
  Matrix. So I'm going to move the Overton
• 1:26:07
  window. I posted this on my ex account
• 1:26:11
  and I will give a little bit of context.
• 1:26:14
  Really, the last century was really between, you know, 2
• 1:26:18
  superpowers, right? Which is you had the communist
• 1:26:22
  system and we know it wasn't free market, but the more free
• 1:26:27
  market system, right? And I posted this on my ex
• 1:26:31
  account which I know you don't use but I'm going to post it on
• 1:26:33
  my nostril. Account after this I'll I'll ZAP
• 1:26:36
  it. But I basically said the future
• 1:26:40
  of capitalism is Bitcoin, the future of socialism, our central
• 1:26:47
  bank, digital currencies. And then that's kind of led me
• 1:26:50
  down the rabbit hole. I'm going to move the Overton
• 1:26:53
  window here, Jeff. Are current left wing politics
• 1:26:56
  compatible with a Bitcoin standard?
• 1:26:59
  Our current left wing current to our current right wing aren't.
• 1:27:03
  They're both incompatible. But I think the right wing is
• 1:27:05
  more open to Bitcoin and I'll give you an example.
• 1:27:09
  So I actually, I agree with you so, so so more.
• 1:27:12
  If you were more of a free market person, you would
• 1:27:16
  probably see Bitcoin first. But that being said, there's a
• 1:27:19
  lot of progressives like if you said Troy Cross and a whole
• 1:27:23
  bunch of who are incredible people that also understand
• 1:27:26
  Bitcoins, the only way that they can solve.
• 1:27:29
  It's not monolithic. I completely agree with you.
• 1:27:31
  But there was a vote and I asked Senator Lummus in DCA couple
• 1:27:35
  months ago and she was like, that's a good question.
• 1:27:37
  So I asked her this. I said there was a vote in the
• 1:27:40
  House last year, and the vote was essentially forbading the
• 1:27:44
  federal government from launching a central bank digital
• 1:27:46
  currency. It wasn't monolithic, but let's
• 1:27:50
  just say the vast majority of the right voted for the bill and
• 1:27:56
  the vast majority of the left voted against the bill.
• 1:28:00
  And if you take a look at some of the Fed's recent actions, you
• 1:28:05
  can make a very strong. I mean, it doesn't help that
• 1:28:08
  Trump's calling Powell a loser on on to social.
• 1:28:11
  But you can make the case that a lot of the Fed's recent actions
• 1:28:15
  were political in terms of helping trying to help Kamala
• 1:28:18
  elected. And if you look at the 5th
• 1:28:20
  tenant of the Communist Manifesto and makes the case for
• 1:28:23
  the necessity of a central. Bank.
• 1:28:25
  There is no capitalism or communism with a central bank.
• 1:28:31
  You just said the 5th tenant of the Senate communist.
• 1:28:33
  It's the same system. It's exactly the same system.
• 1:28:37
  If you manipulate money, if you have centralized control of
• 1:28:41
  money and everything else resolves around centralized
• 1:28:44
  control of money, then capitalism, communism is exactly
• 1:28:47
  the same system. Has to be.
• 1:28:49
  Yeah. So that is the problem.
• 1:28:51
  And so when we say left or right on that, and I would say most
• 1:28:55
  people don't understand that. And maybe more, more right
• 1:28:57
  people on the right. They haven't quite gotten to
• 1:29:01
  this, but maybe some have gotten there.
• 1:29:04
  Ron Paul obviously been talking about this for forever, and
• 1:29:07
  you're starting to see the same things he said emerge.
• 1:29:11
  So there are certainly more people on the right that would
• 1:29:14
  see it. Is it a more viable vehicle to
• 1:29:17
  that? They're both the same.
• 1:29:19
  They both end in the same place. They both end in the same place.
• 1:29:22
  So when I talk about Canada and when I talk about Bitcoin for
• 1:29:25
  Canada, that mattered. For Bitcoin, it doesn't when
• 1:29:29
  you're talking about the state for the US, it's the same, same
• 1:29:33
  thing when you're talking about this, this battle.
• 1:29:35
  And again, for, for the, the, the left, right battle for the
• 1:29:40
  US, it matters a lot that you vote for Bitcoin.
• 1:29:43
  If you wanted to stay in the US for Bitcoin, it doesn't matter.
• 1:29:46
  But do you see what I mean? That like it.
• 1:29:48
  It does matter to vote for the right if you want Bitcoin to be.
• 1:29:54
  Well, I, I, I guess I don't want to impose my beliefs on
• 1:29:57
  somebody. Else, and this is the conundrum
• 1:30:00
  that I went through personally because I'm like, wait a second,
• 1:30:02
  like, no, no, no, I want to be inclusive in my messaging.
• 1:30:06
  I have a lot of friends that do great work.
• 1:30:08
  You mentioned a couple of them. I love the progressive case for
• 1:30:11
  Bitcoiner guys. I have them on my show all the
• 1:30:13
  time. They're incredible.
• 1:30:14
  I give them credit 'cause they're like in a hornet's nest.
• 1:30:17
  They're like, dude, guys, keep doing what you're doing.
• 1:30:19
  But at the same time, I can't deny the reality.
• 1:30:22
  And the reality was if if I voted for Kamala, Ross would
• 1:30:26
  still be in, Ross would still be in prison.
• 1:30:28
  And in Canada, it's the same thing.
• 1:30:30
  The perpetrator of all of the damage against the troops, the
• 1:30:33
  trucking thing, and there's loss of individual rights and
• 1:30:37
  freedoms and the the media, that whole party, everyone, most of
• 1:30:42
  the people in that party are still elected.
• 1:30:44
  It's been 10 years. Canada's standard of living is
• 1:30:47
  going down lower and lower and lower.
• 1:30:48
  All these problems are getting worse and worse and worse
• 1:30:51
  because of the same thing. And we just selected it again.
• 1:30:55
  It's crazy. Yeah, it's crazy.
• 1:30:57
  Now the question is on the resolve for.
• 1:31:01
  So I agree, Pierre would have ripped out a bunch of that and,
• 1:31:05
  and created a path to something that looked better and, and
• 1:31:09
  hopefully Bitcoin would have been a big part of that, of that
• 1:31:12
  path and it would have accelerated Bitcoin in Canada
• 1:31:16
  and it would have made my life easier in Canada.
• 1:31:18
  Now I have to make a decision, Do I exit?
• 1:31:21
  Where do I exit? What does that, what does that
• 1:31:24
  look like? And I think that's going to
• 1:31:25
  happen over and over. My if you read my LinkedIn post
• 1:31:28
  on this, I said exactly, I don't have to impose my beliefs, but I
• 1:31:33
  can tell you my why, right? And and my why, if I was in the
• 1:31:38
  US would have been exactly what you just said.
• 1:31:40
  And I think it's very important to focus on the first part of
• 1:31:43
  what you just said about imposing your beliefs on someone
• 1:31:46
  else, even it doesn't matter how right you think you are.
• 1:31:50
  Let that individual make their own decision.
• 1:31:53
  And I remember I was telling my Co host, like Opti, I was like,
• 1:31:56
  Opti, you know, we might have to move to El Salvador, my friend,
• 1:32:00
  right during the the previous election.
• 1:32:03
  And I was half joking, right? You know, the US has a little
• 1:32:06
  bit more, the states have a little bit more sovereignty.
• 1:32:08
  That's actually what creates the so the way the Constitution is
• 1:32:12
  written and that the power to to slow or stop this from
• 1:32:16
  happening. But what what ends up happening
• 1:32:19
  is money is superordinate to law.
• 1:32:21
  You could see the Constitution being chipped away, of course,
• 1:32:24
  right, because of because of broken money and because of the
• 1:32:27
  central bank, because of the relationship to money, because
• 1:32:30
  money is superordinate to law and money is superordinate to a
• 1:32:33
  piece of paper that protects your rights.
• 1:32:37
  The way that this was formed in the US certainly protected your
• 1:32:41
  rights better than it did in Canada and other other nations.
• 1:32:45
  In fact, the US is a because of that long ago fight for
• 1:32:49
  independence and because of the, the the Constitution and because
• 1:32:55
  all rights are created equal. I think the so in in kind of the
• 1:33:00
  spirit of people in the US that they're not willing to let that
• 1:33:04
  die, which is really good for both the US and it's also good
• 1:33:08
  for Bitcoin. And my question to you is, Jeff,
• 1:33:11
  at what point do we do, I don't want to say stand and fight from
• 1:33:14
  a kinetic sense, but at what point?
• 1:33:17
  And this is where I like, I felt I was at a crossroads and you
• 1:33:21
  just said yourself, you felt like you needed to vote as well.
• 1:33:24
  At what point do Bitcoiners say no?
• 1:33:27
  We need to hold the line here. So I, I, I think this comes down
• 1:33:31
  to, I think what Bitcoiners are doing are both holding law and
• 1:33:35
  and again, decentralized secure protocol bound by energy.
• 1:33:39
  People are going to make any decision and all decisions kind
• 1:33:42
  of form where where we're going. So there's going to be lots of
• 1:33:44
  heights. Some people are going to take
• 1:33:46
  that fight. Some people are going to just
• 1:33:48
  rise above it and just keep on building faster.
• 1:33:50
  And they're like a Gandhi, right?
• 1:33:52
  They're still fighting, but they're they're they're fighting
• 1:33:55
  on something that can't be attacked.
• 1:33:57
  Yeah, right. And so they're using their
• 1:33:59
  energy differently. So I think it's going to, I
• 1:34:03
  think with what's coming, how chaotic this is going to be,
• 1:34:05
  it's going to be all of the above.
• 1:34:07
  That's going to as as as we move over there.
• 1:34:10
  When I think about my energy, is my energy that better?
• 1:34:15
  So there Brad Mills said just recently.
• 1:34:18
  So do you want to help create some kind of political party?
• 1:34:23
  Do you want to help move some of these laws and for not a chance.
• 1:34:28
  So I can move my energy from where it is now, helping
• 1:34:32
  entrepreneurs build products, technology that expand this
• 1:34:36
  network and move faster and faster and faster and stay
• 1:34:39
  there. Or I could take it and do that,
• 1:34:42
  right? It's a no brainer.
• 1:34:44
  Where's your best energy? Where should you focus it?
• 1:34:46
  Yeah, yeah. What message do you have for
• 1:34:51
  future generations? And the reason I'm asking this
• 1:34:53
  question is I just had a daughter by a year a year ago or
• 1:34:57
  so. She's walking down.
• 1:34:58
  That's so cool. So little humans.
• 1:35:01
  I can't. Believe that how that works.
• 1:35:04
  But you know, what I, what I find fascinating is that she was
• 1:35:09
  born into a world where Bitcoin exists versus you and I, we
• 1:35:14
  essentially, you know, we grew up in a world where Bitcoin
• 1:35:18
  didn't exist when we were born, didn't exist for a big portion
• 1:35:22
  of our lives. And then we found it.
• 1:35:25
  She's going to be Bitcoin native.
• 1:35:26
  Because I'm. Going to be telling her list out
• 1:35:29
  of the wallet. You know download Sparrow, watch
• 1:35:32
  some tutorials right? What message would you have for
• 1:35:36
  future generations? It's very hopeful, especially if
• 1:35:40
  she has a dad like you, that that is.
• 1:35:43
  But but year early on this, you're understanding, if you
• 1:35:46
  understand all that stuff that's coming across and you're curious
• 1:35:49
  enough to keep going. And, and so if you think of
• 1:35:53
  people with integrity in your life, right, like what, what
• 1:35:57
  would you want your kids to see? Like would you want them to see
• 1:35:59
  that, that you're aligned in that integrity and everything
• 1:36:02
  else? And a lot of times when you get
• 1:36:04
  to, I think all of the time, when you get to the bottom of
• 1:36:07
  the Bitcoin rabbit hole and you make that commitment, that's who
• 1:36:10
  you are. Your daughter's going to see
• 1:36:12
  that she's going to grow up with it and she's going to benefit
• 1:36:15
  from not just that in that system, but as that system
• 1:36:18
  expands, she's going to see all of the hope and promise of that
• 1:36:22
  system, whereas some others aren't.
• 1:36:26
  They're not really going to be. In fact, if you just ask what
• 1:36:29
  you do on your podcast, what why did I come here?
• 1:36:31
  Why did, why is your podcast successful?
• 1:36:35
  It's successful because you're touching people, you're making
• 1:36:38
  an impact on other people's lives and and that's expanding
• 1:36:43
  and, and you can feel it expanding because you're making
• 1:36:46
  that positive impact. That's what the free market
• 1:36:48
  looks like, that's what Bitcoin looks like.
• 1:36:50
  And that's what the more and more people who step out of that
• 1:36:54
  world are going to look like. So your daughter is going to
• 1:36:56
  bathe in it every day. She's going to be part of a part
• 1:36:59
  of that. And it's so super hopeful that.
• 1:37:02
  Was very touching and I really appreciate it.
• 1:37:05
  Very powerful, Jeff. And you know, I hope everyone
• 1:37:08
  who's watching understands, right?
• 1:37:10
  If they have kids, you know they can see that as well if they're
• 1:37:14
  bitcoiners. Kids, my kids now are 2119 and
• 1:37:18
  17 and close like incredible, incredible.
• 1:37:25
  They reach incredible family. We're so close.
• 1:37:29
  I'm watching kind of that closeness and everything else
• 1:37:32
  out of the same thing. Kids don't do what you tell them
• 1:37:35
  to do. Kids do what you show them to
• 1:37:38
  do. They learn way more about who
• 1:37:41
  you are, how you show up, than what you tell them.
• 1:37:44
  And so if you show up in congruence, if you show up
• 1:37:48
  authentic, if you show up with integrity, that's what your kids
• 1:37:52
  will see. My final question to you, Jeff,
• 1:37:55
  what legacy do you want to leave through your work?
• 1:38:00
  This impact just, yeah, impact positive impact on other people.
• 1:38:08
  Love it Jeff. Poof, thanks an honor.
• 1:38:11
  Thank you so much. You too.