Latest / Adventures in Adversity: an inspirational podcast / Ep. 51: Sacred Story Counseling - helping women heal w/Licensed Pro Counselor (LPC) Hannah Sinkovitz

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Ep. 51: Sacred Story Counseling - helping women heal w/Licensed Pro Counselor (LPC) Hannah Sinkovitz · Adventures in Adversity: an inspirational podcast

• 0:01
  OK, we are back with episode 51 of the podcast and I'm
• 0:07
  practicing my spiel Adventures in Adversity.
• 0:11
  If you have not listened to this podcast, it is a podcast where
• 0:16
  we feature real people. I got one right here.
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  True stories and daily inspiration to help you turn
• 0:26
  life's adversity, in whatever form, into more of an adventure.
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  And I don't know if you can understand the amount of
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  excitement that is emanating from my soul with this guest
• 0:39
  that I have right now. Hi, Hannah.
• 0:43
  Hey, Bree. OK guys, so I'd literally just
• 0:46
  got full body chills and you will see why.
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  So Hannah, thank you so much for joining my little podcast.
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  I'm so happy to be here. It's a long time coming it.
• 0:56
  Is a long time coming and for those of you I'm going to put
• 1:00
  all her info in the show notes because there are a lot of you
• 1:04
  are going to want to contact her especially if you live in
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  Michigan if you need a therapist Hannah we met let's take take
• 1:10
  the audience through our story because there's going to be
• 1:13
  serious stories laughs then there's going to be all sorts of
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  joy today. But I want to introduce Hannah
• 1:20
  as not only talented, amazing, empathetic, hilarious, fantastic
• 1:26
  therapist, but also as my #1 hype girl.
• 1:30
  Listen, you're easy to hype. See, so Hannah, I'm going to
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  stop talking because everybody knows that that's what I do a
• 1:38
  lot of. And I would like you to tell us
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  how did we meet? Yes.
• 1:43
  How did we get here? Bri and I met in a mastermind
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  with Tiffany Rowe. We're going to shout her out as
• 1:50
  our biz coach and mentor and friend.
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  Yes, she taught us so much and we were just little baby
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  dreamers when we first met, just hoping and praying for our
• 2:04
  opportunity to come, to build. You know, you wanted to build
• 2:08
  your podcast. I wanted to build and launch my
• 2:11
  private practice. And since that time, when did we
• 2:14
  begin? It was April of 2024.
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  So it was 15 months ago, yeah. Since that time, I have started
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  launched my own business that started back just a few months
• 2:30
  ago in March of 2025. And you obviously have been
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  rocking and rolling on your podcast, meeting all sorts of
• 2:36
  inspirational folks and spreading the love.
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  So it's pretty amazing. I remember the day I'm literally
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  getting chills again. I remember in one of our
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  masterminds, because it was the intention of the mastermind was
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  like women coming together building entrepreneurial kind of
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  this. She has two masterminds.
• 2:54
  This was more like foundational, like what are how do we do this
• 2:57
  versus like, hey, I have a business, how do I up level it?
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  We're like, So what? What do we even do to get one of
• 3:02
  those businesses? Can you can we have one?
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  Yeah, exactly. So we met and then I remember
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  you talking about like we were both just like dreaming of the
• 3:12
  thing. Yeah.
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  And talking about 'cause you were working as a therapist, but
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  you wanted to start your own private practice.
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  Right. And you did it.
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  And I did it. And you, you did your thing and
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  we did it. We did the thing that we said we
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  wanted to do that like we had all this fear about.
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  Yes, and that's the main thing that I think was so unexpected
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  through Tiffany's mastermind was how much mindset work was
• 3:39
  involved and the hurdles that we had within us just to even start
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  the ball rolling. So it was a really powerful
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  experience and definitely, you know, knit our hearts together
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  as well as our other cohort members.
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  And so grateful to have now have like a team of people who are
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  just hyping both of us up and help keep going.
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  It's it's so wild because when I joined that mastermind, I
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  remember there were a few therapists, right?
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  Like it was a mix. And I was like, this is the
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  nicest group of people I've ever met.
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  Like I'm surrounded by therapists.
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  I was like, how did I get in here 'cause I was like, I'm your
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  best test subject. If you need like someone who's
• 4:23
  really messed in nobody. But I remember just being like,
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  this is so more than it's about way more than the business part.
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  I was like, it's getting over the mental hurdle of thinking
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  that you could have the audacity to do something that you want to
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  do. Exactly, exactly.
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  It was amazing. So yes, I'm going to put a link
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  to because we're going to do reels and all this.
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  I'm going to put a link to Tiffany's page, her like where
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  you can learn more about joining those cohorts.
• 4:56
  And you joined another one, right?
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  I did another one. I just re upped immediately
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  because I was like, OK, this first six months, it was so much
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  of the the mental and emotional work that wanted more time to
• 5:10
  implement. And I knew that I needed the
• 5:12
  support of a group of people who were going through the same
• 5:15
  struggle because the folks in our lives, as much as they love
• 5:18
  us and want to see us succeed, it's a lot different getting
• 5:21
  encouragement from someone who's in the trench with you, who's
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  also experiencing those same ups and downs of starting and
• 5:28
  launching a business or a project, an idea, right?
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  And I knew I needed that, that peer support.
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  And I'm so thankful that I continued because really it was
• 5:38
  that second round of Mastermind that allowed me to launch.
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  And now I'm I'm running my own business, so it's pretty
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  amazing. I I congratulations.
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  Thank you. Because it is not only I just
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  remember those meetings and and then you being like, yeah, and
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  then I remember you posting, you're setting up your office.
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  I'm like. There's your little couch.
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  You have the. Cat, like, you know, I'm like,
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  we literally was just an idea, Yeah.
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  And then saying it out loud and then, OK, how are we going to
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  break this down? And then as you go through it,
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  OK, I'm scared. And then you get scared and then
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  something happens and then you're like, you go back to the
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  group and you're like, OK, how now do I, how do I get through
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  this part? Right.
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  It's like, hey, I did the thing, I jumped off that Cliff and now
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  there's this like other Cliff I landed on that I now have to
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  jump off of. Like so there's more cliffs
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  apparently while you run a business there's more, but the
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  biggest 1 you already jumped off the biggest one.
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  Yes. And then it's like it, it feels
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  kind of like the long float. We won't call it a fall because
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  I hear you right, But it's like the long float of, OK, at this
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  point I'm supposed to like pull this strap in order to get ready
• 6:50
  to pull that one and eventually I'm going to have the parachute.
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  But it's like all these little steps that you don't necessarily
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  think about and you know it. It feels pretty good to have
• 7:00
  other people around you, you know, with the goggles on.
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  Shaping like 1 record too. You actually can't even predict
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  once you jump off what you're going to encounter, right?
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  So I'm so glad we kicked off with that because that whole
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  theme of what, like anyone listening, it was all about
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  finding a group of support to help you navigate building a
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  business which has its own set of adversity, right?
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  And what is so cool is that you are now get let me get your
• 7:34
  title right. You are a licensed therapist.
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  Like what is that the you know there's?
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  I'm a licensed professional counselor, so LPC in the city.
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  Amazing and so you offer on one in in office therapy?
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  Do you do remote as well? I do remote as well and the
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  thing that I'm really excited about is Ioffer intensives.
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  So sometimes the weekly 60 minute model isn't sufficient
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  for the progress that gals want to make.
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  And I, I work exclusively with women.
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  That's where my heart lies. And, and so Ioffer like extended
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  therapy packages where folks can spend up to 4 hours with me in a
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  in a single setting. And sometimes that can take
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  place over a few days. So almost like a retreat style
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  where you know, we'll meet a couple hours in the morning,
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  break for lunch, kind of regroup, meet again in the
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  afternoon. And then, you know, they have
• 8:30
  their hotel or Airbnb where they stay back the next.
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  Day. So for for major life events or
• 8:37
  maybe long standing extenuating circumstances or trauma, right,
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  that model can be really helpful, right, to be able to
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  do, you know, a month, two months worth of therapeutic work
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  in one sitting. Now, obviously there are certain
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  folks who are better candidates for work like that.
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  We want to make sure that they're supported before going
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  into an environment like that. So there's definitely some
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  screening process to make sure that, you know, everybody stays
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  safe and grounded. But it's something that I really
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  considered a great privilege to be able to do and help help gals
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  get a springboard to their progress, their healing, the
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  processing. Amazing I didn't even know you
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  had done you do that since our like it's all been developing
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  yes, what your offerings have been that is so needed because I
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  have so many questions. I don't even know like 'cause
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  you're like my friend, my peer a therapist and and everybody
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  knows I like love therapist. If anyone's like I'm a
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  therapist, I'm like. Tell me more I'm.
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  Like, do you want to hang out 'cause I love talking about
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  everything. Therapy, no.
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  So if someone's listening right now and they're in Michigan,
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  yeah, you offer one-on-one. Like you would always start by
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  coming in and being like, hey, what's going on?
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  And then you would help them guide like what kind of
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  treatment or or sessions or cadence might be helpful.
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  Yeah. I mean, and I think intensives
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  can be a really great like springboard, as I said, or kind
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  of this mega supplement, like if somebody has a weekly therapist
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  that they really enjoy, but they're kind of wanting this
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  additional more robust experience that then they can
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  take back to their weekly purpose.
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  That is something that is possible before an intensive.
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  I always do kind of that like primer session.
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  So an hour, hour to an hour and a half session just to like lay
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  the groundwork, give some of the homework in order to prepare for
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  that experience. So folks can travel from outside
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  of Michigan in order to have an experience like that.
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  Oh amazing. Or it can be, you know, just an
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  add on for the gals who see me regularly.
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  So cool that you're expanding who you can help.
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  Yeah. I'm very thankful.
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  This is you guys, Hannah. I mean, if you're not following
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  Hannah, I'm putting all the the links to all your things because
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  you are such a gifted therapist. I'm telling you, like you, I
• 11:18
  have not gone to therapy with you, but basically I talk to you
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  about everything in my life and you you're like, you've seen it
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  all through through. You're like, she's having a
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  rough day. No, I'm kidding.
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  I just think it's amazing because the gift that you give
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  by providing that space, whether it's in your office over a
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  screen, over an intensive for somebody who drives and flies
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  in, then they go back with those tools and then literally that
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  what you did like ripples into whoever they interact with.
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  That's the hope, yeah. I, I, I can't, I can't describe
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  how cool it is to see like the whole journey and just like
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  being on the journey with you. And then I remember Hannah.
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  And again, I'm jumping all over there.
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  Everyone's like, what are you talking about?
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  Fine. We're gonna, it's all about
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  adversity therapy, but it's all gonna stitch together.
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  I remember when we first started posting, yes we were like scared
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  to post and now we're like. Yeah, I feel like you, you were
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  always the one who was like, all right, somebody's got to go 1st.
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  I'm going and we're all like. OK.
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  Yeah, we're coming with you. You know, so you were that one
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  who just ripped the Band-Aid and help the rest of us be just OK
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  with the discomfort of something new.
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  And I feel like that's so important for all of us to
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  practice, but especially those of us in helping professions to
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  stay connected to our humanity in order to empathize with the
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  people who are across from us who we're trying to serve.
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  Because I think it's really easy when we're not practicing the
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  same things that we're asking our clients to practice, to
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  become sort of that armchair expert instead of just a fellow
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  sojourner trying to become more ourselves and become more
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  healthy and whole, You know? So it's a practice I've really
• 13:22
  valued and especially in this process of putting myself out
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  there on social media for the first time and launching a
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  business, all of these things that have felt scarier than I
• 13:34
  thought they would. It's been a really humbling
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  thing and a very positive way to stick enacted to my clients who
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  are also doing scary hard things for the first time and dealing
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  with some of those fears. So it's been, it's been a really
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  great experience. Now I want to take a little
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  rewind yeah, to the life of Hannah and we're going to bring
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  bring back. So how when did you know as as I
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  love that you use the word like a fellow Sojourner Sergeant.
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  So Sojourner. Yes, I can see like little.
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  It was a little Hannah like writing in her journal, being
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  like one day I want to help people.
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  Or was it like a later in life realization?
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  How did you get to be the amazing therapist?
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  That you are. Well, thank you.
• 14:27
  I can say that. I know.
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  I'm just feeling like, Oh my goodness, you're like, I just
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  came here. To.
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  Like, get this like nectar of kindness, that's what, yes.
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  As a therapist would say, just receive it.
• 14:39
  Yes, receive it. Well, it's kind.
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  Of I feel like always been my posture towards other people.
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  And I think we all have our God-given gifts, these natural
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  giftings and inclinations that we were born with.
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  And for me, being able to see and hold space for other people
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  has always been a part of who I am and my story.
• 15:05
  And at times, to my detriment when I'm younger and just so
• 15:09
  concerned about all of my precious little friends who are
• 15:11
  going through their like, playground dramas.
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  I was just tore up about it, you know?
• 15:17
  Bleeding heart, right? You're like, that has always
• 15:21
  been the role I have played in my friendships and my parents.
• 15:25
  They used to joke. They would call me Dear Abby
• 15:28
  because I was the one who I was, you know, when I got a cell
• 15:31
  phone in high school, parents like you really need to turn
• 15:34
  that off at night. And I was like, but what if
• 15:35
  someone needs me? And bless her heart, you can see
• 15:39
  a little window into into baby there she.
• 15:42
  Is. So definitely a lot of growth
• 15:45
  since that time. But yeah, my, when I did a job
• 15:49
  shadow in like 4th or 5th grade, I went to the school counselor
• 15:53
  in the like the middle school and I job shadowed her.
• 15:57
  And so everyone else saw it and I kind of was just like, I just
• 16:01
  know I love people, you know? Then it became apparent pretty
• 16:06
  quickly after my bachelor's degree that if I was going to
• 16:11
  have as much impact and be able to help as much as I wanted to,
• 16:14
  I needed that additional education and training.
• 16:17
  So that's it's cool to see someone follow the the the
• 16:25
  yearnings of like the inner child is.
• 16:28
  It's it's easily gets like lost. You have to find her right?
• 16:33
  And then you know, that's why therapy is great, reconnecting
• 16:36
  with your inner child, right. OK, so you take you go to
• 16:38
  college, We're going life of Hannah.
• 16:41
  Yes. So.
• 16:41
  Go and tell me about, I know there's some some serious sports
• 16:46
  along the way. Yeah, so I dig into soccer
• 16:50
  growing up and that was my outlet, my social circles, my
• 16:56
  competitive drive, which was pretty, pretty intense, very
• 17:01
  good. Nowadays, it's just like board
• 17:02
  games. If you want to schedule board
• 17:04
  game night like we're going. But then you're you're in,
• 17:06
  you're in all the way in. Yeah, I.
• 17:09
  Played nine square in the air with a bunch of teenagers over
• 17:13
  the week. And you were like, they were
• 17:15
  like. Missus sink of it.
• 17:18
  Like we're like, are you trash talking like a little bit?
• 17:21
  Absolutely, I scream. And.
• 17:23
  You're like, this is the safe space.
• 17:25
  Safe space where you can be crushed.
• 17:28
  So anyways find finding the positive outlets for that
• 17:31
  nowadays. Yeah, I played soccer all the
• 17:33
  way through college and so that really was like my driving guide
• 17:36
  for a long time was OK, this is my focus and everything else
• 17:41
  position I was. Center back defense, all great.
• 17:45
  Of course you were defending the week.
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  You were. You're the last line and you're
• 17:51
  like, I got this. Yep.
• 17:53
  That's so badass. Yeah, it was.
• 17:55
  I didn't even know that till recently.
• 17:57
  Yeah. Yeah, those were some good
• 17:59
  years. I I'm not going to be one of
• 18:03
  those gals who plays in the adult leagues though, because
• 18:06
  like, I had way too many surgeries post college to deal
• 18:10
  with and stuff like I'm not tearing an ACL in my mid.
• 18:13
  Yeah. Oh, no, I know.
• 18:14
  I hear you. I I played in a little adult
• 18:16
  league and watched that happen to other people.
• 18:18
  I was goalie though, so it was like it was fine.
• 18:21
  OK, so you're, you're running up and down the soccer field.
• 18:26
  You're, you know, when you're not running in soccer, you're
• 18:29
  learning and you're. So at that point you're like,
• 18:33
  OK, this could be a thing for me where I help people for like a
• 18:36
  career. Yeah.
• 18:37
  Honestly, I mean, I met my husband in undergrad, so I did
• 18:42
  the whole like, get married right out of college thing.
• 18:45
  Yeah, Lord bless our young who had no idea what we were doing.
• 18:51
  That's OK, It's all worked out. Yes.
• 18:54
  So I actually started substitute teaching in the high schools and
• 18:59
  quickly realized that a lot of the students felt comfortable
• 19:03
  kind of opening up to me immediately.
• 19:05
  And I think it was the anonymity, right?
• 19:07
  The like, I'm not going to see you every single day.
• 19:11
  So they would just kind of drop these really heavy things.
• 19:14
  And I felt so burdened, like, I hate that I can't be more
• 19:20
  supportive or have an ongoing relationship or really help with
• 19:23
  some of the things going on. And I was like, OK, if I want to
• 19:26
  be able to do that, I have to go back to school.
• 19:28
  So I did and I, I was able to get a grad assistantship and
• 19:33
  that that paid for my first year of school.
• 19:35
  Grateful for that. And then we got pregnant with
• 19:39
  our first child kind of unexpectedly.
• 19:41
  And I was like in the middle of grad school.
• 19:43
  Not the plan, but we're going to roll with it.
• 19:46
  And so super thankful for community who helped us and
• 19:50
  especially both of our moms were really helpful taking care of
• 19:54
  that little guy while I was doing my practice and
• 19:56
  internships. And so I grad school with an 18
• 20:02
  month old on my hip and had submitted some final papers
• 20:06
  while I was actually in labor. Oh my gosh.
• 20:11
  Held together by a shoestring, but we made it work.
• 20:13
  You were mom and before you even had the baby.
• 20:16
  That's like mom life. Yeah.
• 20:18
  For sure. So yeah, but as soon as I got
• 20:20
  into the grad program and started digging into the work, I
• 20:23
  knew that it was exactly the path that I needed to be on.
• 20:28
  And for anyone listening, if they're like in a place where
• 20:33
  they're considering helping people as a profession, would
• 20:38
  you say that that was like a feeling where you were like,
• 20:41
  this feels right or like not that you didn't have any fear or
• 20:44
  doubt, but like where you were like, you have to kind of have
• 20:47
  that? It felt aligned and I didn't
• 20:51
  have to be anyone else in order to do work.
• 20:56
  And that's where it felt like, OK, I've where you find the
• 21:00
  sweet spot. And it was like, I, I can be the
• 21:05
  fullness of who I am in this role and, and have an outlet
• 21:09
  that feel fulfilling. And, and it's mutually
• 21:14
  beneficial. Like all relationships when,
• 21:17
  when they're healthy, they, they're reciprocal.
• 21:20
  So as much as I give to my clients, I also benefit from
• 21:25
  those relationships. Like there's so much that I've
• 21:28
  learned from my clients. I'm sure your life you probably
• 21:33
  have some life altering sessions.
• 21:36
  Absolutely. I mean, I can't imagine.
• 21:39
  I mean, there's definitely, it's like this deep, sacred holy
• 21:43
  work. And also there's, there's light
• 21:46
  parts of it too. And I genuinely enjoy the women
• 21:50
  who I get to work with. And some days I leave.
• 21:51
  I'm like, how the world is this my job?
• 21:54
  Like how this feels like sort of privilege and it feels so fun
• 21:59
  some days. And it's definitely not always
• 22:01
  that it's difficult, but even from practical things, you know,
• 22:05
  like last week, a client gave me an idea based on what she shared
• 22:10
  about her organization in her home.
• 22:12
  I'm like, this is about to change my morning routine with
• 22:14
  my kids. Like, this is amazing.
• 22:18
  So fringe benefits of being connected to really amazing
• 22:23
  people, you know? Well, it's almost like when you
• 22:26
  are in your therapist couch, which is so cute and I loved it.
• 22:30
  I saw the whole evolution of like, you got the office, we
• 22:33
  have a couch, you got the pillow.
• 22:35
  And then I remember that day when you posted, I was like,
• 22:37
  holy shit. It's a this is, it's there.
• 22:42
  Like, you know, and what must be so well, as a therapist, correct
• 22:46
  me if I'm wrong, as a counselor, you are literally kind of next
• 22:51
  to them. If you're buckling up on a
• 22:52
  roller coaster, the adventures and adversity of their life.
• 22:54
  You're like, you, you step in, you're like, let's go.
• 22:58
  I'm just gonna guide you through.
• 23:00
  Yeah, right. There's, yeah, There's a lot of
• 23:04
  cool metaphors for the work that we get to do.
• 23:07
  I think one of them that I really appreciate is that of
• 23:10
  like an emotional midwife where it's like they're doing the
• 23:15
  work. I can't go through that labor
• 23:18
  for them. I can hold space for the fear or
• 23:22
  the anxiety, or I can let them know, hey, this is probably
• 23:26
  what's coming next. How might you want to manage
• 23:28
  that? And then they're the one who is
• 23:31
  going through that. And I'm just a steady presence
• 23:34
  with them. There you go.
• 23:36
  You're yes, you're shepherding them, but like you're that
• 23:40
  analogy because I just imagine giving birth to my two children
• 23:44
  and I was like, yeah, you can't, I have to have the baby, but you
• 23:48
  can give me the coaching on what's coming next, how you
• 23:52
  might breathe through it. Yeah.
• 23:59
  I mean, I just, I have so much respect and I'll never stop
• 24:02
  saying it. I have a whole section on the
• 24:04
  podcast just about therapy and how it will literally save,
• 24:09
  change, enhance your life. You will come out of that office
• 24:14
  a better version of yourself if you do the work.
• 24:17
  Yeah, absolutely. And I mean, I know that from
• 24:19
  both sides. Like I've gone through it as a
• 24:22
  client myself. Yeah, I.
• 24:25
  Again, think that's so important so that we know what that
• 24:27
  experience is like when we're the ones who are trying to
• 24:31
  engage in that well with other people who are looking for that
• 24:34
  gross healing ending. But yeah, it definitely we heal
• 24:39
  in the context of relationship and.
• 24:41
  When you're relating your healing.
• 24:43
  In the context of secure, healthy relationship and the
• 24:48
  therapeutic relationship should be that microcosm of what's
• 24:52
  happening outside in order to kind of work through without
• 24:56
  fear of consequence or reactivity to be able to like
• 25:01
  see ourselves in that mirror. And OK, so that that's the
• 25:05
  undercurrent that's been carrying this thing that's been
• 25:08
  going on for years. OK, Now that I'm aware of that,
• 25:12
  do I want to continue that pattern or do I want to shift
• 25:15
  that? How do I even do that?
• 25:17
  And that's where, you know, a solid therapist is going to be
• 25:20
  able to speak in, offer suggestions, ask great questions
• 25:26
  in order for a client to come to their own conclusion of, OK,
• 25:30
  yeah, I'm ready to make this change.
• 25:33
  So much of therapy is just like sitting on the edge of that
• 25:37
  Cliff that we both have been on and just like, hey, yeah, I see
• 25:41
  it. Yeah.
• 25:41
  That's scary. Yep.
• 25:43
  That's, that's why you've been walking away from this edge for
• 25:45
  a really long time. OK.
• 25:47
  I'll be here when you're ready. We can sit here as long as you
• 25:50
  need. We can talk this over and over
• 25:52
  and over again. And when you're ready?
• 25:54
  We'll go. That's it podcast over.
• 26:03
  I was, I've never thought about I I just got a visual of wow,
• 26:12
  that is it's that person. You're there.
• 26:17
  Your client still has all the agency and all the control.
• 26:21
  You're literally sitting and you're like, look, my legs are
• 26:23
  hitting in too and we're not going to fall.
• 26:24
  Yeah. And we can stay here as long as
• 26:27
  you need, right? There's no shaming of like, why
• 26:29
  aren't you ready to jump, right? That leads me to, so you create
• 26:38
  this sacred space, whether it's hanging off the Cliff and the
• 26:41
  name of your practice. Hopefully I get it right.
• 26:43
  Yes, sacred story counseling. Yes.
• 26:47
  Another moment when you launched that, I was like, of course I
• 26:50
  was like, that's perfect. Yes, it feels, it just feels
• 26:55
  true, you know, and for every single one of my clients, and
• 27:02
  that has to be the orientation of a therapist, is that every
• 27:07
  single unique human is sacred and matters and their story is
• 27:13
  important. And that's only been true, only
• 27:16
  been proven true time and time again.
• 27:18
  Like I have never walked away from knowing someone even after
• 27:22
  they transfer out or after they fall off the caseload for
• 27:26
  whatever reason. Sure, every human is sacred.
• 27:30
  It's just true. It, you know, and like you said,
• 27:35
  we all have a story yes and it's like we have a story from the
• 27:40
  past. We have a story that's like
• 27:42
  unfolding and then we meet people on the street at work,
• 27:47
  anywhere, when we're with our kids, parents, friends,
• 27:49
  whatever, and we have no idea none right, the intricate sacred
• 27:55
  story that like brought them to that moment.
• 27:57
  Absolutely. That's a great name.
• 28:02
  I love it and one of my favorite reels that you posted, I'm just
• 28:06
  going to like we're going to have to do a flashback of like
• 28:08
  my favorite reels of yours and I'll just post was like when you
• 28:12
  sit down. So Speaking of sacred story
• 28:15
  counseling, when you come in and you're like getting ready for
• 28:18
  your client and then you come. In and you're like.
• 28:22
  So what's going on? And then all the different ways
• 28:26
  that you greet a client and then did you do it?
• 28:31
  So how'd it go? Or like another one that where
• 28:34
  you're like, and I'm like, Oh my gosh, this is exactly as a as
• 28:41
  someone who's had therapy, That's that's the therapist you
• 28:45
  want. You're literally like.
• 28:49
  So you're you're like there on the Cliff going.
• 28:51
  OK, so remember what we talked about?
• 28:54
  Yeah. Are cliffs are are we still
• 28:55
  hanging or are we jumping today? No, not jumping.
• 28:57
  OK, no fun. No problem.
• 28:58
  Like you bring in. How do you OK, here's a
• 29:01
  question. Yeah.
• 29:02
  How does one, whether you're a therapist listening or anyone
• 29:08
  who wants to have be better, more present in their
• 29:10
  relationships? How do you as a therapist or
• 29:14
  what's a couple things people can?
• 29:16
  How do you know if you're creating a safe space for
• 29:19
  somebody when they're talking to you?
• 29:22
  I think a good indicator is whether or not you are centering
• 29:25
  yourself or maintaining curiosity about them.
• 29:35
  So the space is dependent upon like how you're, what you're
• 29:37
  bringing, Yeah, like your and how towards.
• 29:41
  That posture, yeah. Because I think it's AI.
• 29:46
  Don't know if this is just like an issue common to man all over
• 29:50
  the world if it's cultural. Or, but we will find out with.
• 29:55
  Me. I don't know.
• 29:59
  But like everybody wants to feel important.
• 30:01
  So frequently we're listening to respond and not listening to
• 30:04
  hear or listening to learn. And people can tell.
• 30:09
  People can tell when someone is really curious and genuine,
• 30:14
  wanting to know, OK, how are you really, what's going on there?
• 30:19
  Or if it's this desire to be in the know, we've all maybe some
• 30:23
  of those people in our social circles where it's like they're
• 30:26
  really intentional to ask questions, but I don't know if
• 30:29
  it's like safe to share with them because it seems like it's
• 30:32
  like the juicy gossip with. The tea?
• 30:34
  Yeah, like what's going on? With the things that are really
• 30:37
  deep and core and vulnerable you, that's not the person you
• 30:41
  want to share those things with who's using it for their own
• 30:45
  gain socially just to have something to talk about.
• 30:48
  Or the person who just wants to offer their solution without,
• 30:53
  you know, having that rapport and relationship where you would
• 30:56
  invite that. But someone who just wants to be
• 30:58
  like, you know, you just have to do XY and Z and you'll be good,
• 31:02
  you know? But to be seen and heard just as
• 31:06
  you are someone to just be with you and not try to fix you.
• 31:12
  You know that powerful medicine. The the listening that and
• 31:20
  that's such a especially me too, like I am hyper and I'm always
• 31:25
  like, and then I'm working, I'm really working on that being
• 31:29
  like take it in and like someone or a friend, like, you know, if
• 31:34
  a friend's like I didn't get that job or like the interview,
• 31:37
  like fell through, You know, a lot of people are looking for
• 31:39
  jobs and stuff not to be like, don't worry, it'll be fine, but
• 31:42
  being like, really sorry, I know you really wanted that.
• 31:45
  That sucks. I'm so sorry, right.
• 31:47
  And like, just let it let it suck for a second and then be
• 31:50
  like maybe call when later. So can I get you a latte?
• 31:54
  Right. Still sucks, though.
• 31:55
  Not saying it doesn't suck. Exactly, exactly.
• 31:57
  There's a there's a time and a place for everything.
• 31:59
  Being with someone in the suck and just being like, yeah, this
• 32:03
  is horrible. This is grief.
• 32:04
  This is not going away. And I wish it was for you.
• 32:09
  You know someone is at the door, voice.
• 32:12
  The voice of God. Leaning.
• 32:14
  God is like, Oh yeah. Right, For like being with
• 32:19
  somebody in their grief matters. And there's also a place for
• 32:22
  practical problem solving, especially like in the
• 32:25
  therapeutic sense, like in our everyday life.
• 32:28
  I think, you know, it's good to ask like, hey, I have a few
• 32:32
  ideas. Are you open to hearing them?
• 32:36
  Actually, no. Like today just sucks.
• 32:38
  And I kind of just want to like lament about that.
• 32:40
  I want to like, I want to grovel for a little while.
• 32:43
  It's like, cool, let's do it. Like what ice cream are we
• 32:45
  picking up? What show are we putting on?
• 32:48
  You know, like, or you want to get your mind off it.
• 32:51
  OK, where's the next silent disco?
• 32:53
  Like let's roll out. We're going to dance and just
• 32:56
  like shake it off. You know process, right?
• 33:00
  Because you actually have to. What I've learned, apparently
• 33:04
  word on the street is a feeling will keep coming back until you
• 33:08
  kind of process it. But like.
• 33:11
  From a therapist's perspective, you well, there's this this lady
• 33:15
  that has this feel deal, heel approach, T Rowe, she does.
• 33:19
  And she's gonna love this. Oh yeah, feel.
• 33:21
  Deal heel like feel, deal heel, feel.
• 33:24
  Deal. Heel over.
• 33:25
  Here too I'll I'll. Photoshop them in.
• 33:28
  There we go, our girl. Feel deal.
• 33:31
  Heel screenshot. Feel, heal.
• 33:36
  It's like it's so there's a difference.
• 33:38
  Like sometimes when I before, before therapy and like waking
• 33:43
  up to the reality of life and how emotions work, I would
• 33:47
  almost feel bad for feeling bad. Yeah.
• 33:50
  So I'm like, I'm like, OK, something maybe I got rejected
• 33:53
  from something and then I'm crying.
• 33:55
  And then I'm like you, then the voice comes in going get your
• 33:58
  shit. Like, are you really crying
• 33:59
  about this? Get out of yourself.
• 34:02
  Yeah. And then the shame mixed with
• 34:04
  the actual thing. And then so instead of now I'm
• 34:09
  learning like this really sucks. And then I'm like, OK, let's
• 34:12
  just like lean into it, put on some music and like go and go
• 34:17
  for a walk. Or like, because I actually am
• 34:19
  like, OK, this is, I think I need to like be upset right now.
• 34:22
  Right, right. Learning to accept your emotions
• 34:26
  is a huge process, especially I I feel like probably for Someone
• 34:29
  Like You who's like the go getter, the hype woman, the like
• 34:33
  up for anything gal and get her done, it's so easy to just put
• 34:38
  on the face and keep trucking. Yes, especially like I'll
• 34:43
  literally now being, and I'm sure you feel this as a
• 34:46
  therapist, like if I have a a bad moment or like a a mood
• 34:51
  that's just off and then I'm like you host a podcast about
• 34:55
  adversity. Come on like you're a fraud.
• 35:00
  You know, posture syndrome like. You're helping people.
• 35:03
  Oh, yeah. You're like, oh, are who are
• 35:05
  you? I always go like, who are you?
• 35:06
  Mel Robbins? Like, what are you doing now?
• 35:08
  Like I used to tell my therapist that I'd, I'd be talking to her
• 35:12
  and she's like, how's the, the podcast looks great.
• 35:15
  And I'd be like, yeah, like, you know, Mel Robbins, what are you
• 35:18
  over here? And she's like, and I'm like,
• 35:20
  oh, it's just funny. You know, I'm like, wow, that
• 35:21
  I'm like literally dissing myself.
• 35:23
  Right, you're undercut. In like a joke.
• 35:25
  Yeah, because how cringe would it be if people knew you
• 35:28
  actually cared or like that we're the audacity, like you
• 35:34
  mentioned, the audacity to think that we have something to offer
• 35:37
  people or that our connection with people could make a
• 35:40
  difference, you know? That my thought was like before
• 35:43
  when we were sitting on the ledge in the mastermind.
• 35:46
  I'm like, there's already enough podcasts.
• 35:48
  Yep, why am I doing this? I used to say like, oh, I'm such
• 35:52
  a wand. I'm like a wand.
• 35:53
  I used to actually say, oh, well, I'm like a wannabe
• 35:55
  podcaster. I would literally, I remember
• 35:58
  saying that and I'm like only recently in the last few months
• 36:07
  did I stop saying that. That's that was a year and a
• 36:11
  half. Yeah, yeah.
• 36:13
  I was afraid that if I'm a real podcaster and it doesn't pan
• 36:18
  out, then I failed or like I'm a joke or I'm AI, but I don't
• 36:24
  know. I've broken free from that and
• 36:26
  I'm like, no, I'm a podcaster like you almost have, Like I am
• 36:30
  a real boy. No, I.
• 36:33
  And that is like the ongoing work.
• 36:35
  So even in a therapeutic experience such as the
• 36:38
  mastermind, it's not just in therapy that we can come to have
• 36:43
  these knowledge or skills. It's 1 streamlined way to do
• 36:46
  that. Direct the coaching.
• 36:50
  That's part of it. We get the tools, but then we
• 36:53
  have to utilize those tools over and over and over again.
• 36:56
  No, my mind sets slipping that lie that was planted long ago.
• 37:02
  You know, I have to reconfront it and to name it, acknowledge
• 37:06
  it, and then move into know what is the truth.
• 37:09
  And even if it feels funky, like what do I want to be true?
• 37:12
  And what I want to be true is that I am a podcaster.
• 37:17
  I am a business owner and also like a grown ass lady because
• 37:22
  that imposter syndrome can leave us feeling so tiny and young and
• 37:25
  small. Like all of these other folks
• 37:26
  have it figured out and we are still like growing up and you
• 37:30
  know what? We all are everywhere but.
• 37:34
  We are and it was funny. I told my boss two weeks ago on
• 37:38
  a one-on-one and he's amazing. And I'm like, look, I got to be
• 37:41
  honest, Jason, I'm like, I was like, because I was asking for
• 37:45
  feedback and I, I was like, there's a voice in my head
• 37:48
  that's like, come on, Bree. Like you're being authentic.
• 37:50
  Be authentic, right? Like this is your one-on-one.
• 37:53
  This is what it's for, right? And I'm like, to be honest,
• 37:56
  Jason, I've had a little bit of imposter syndrome with this.
• 37:59
  And he like, I don't. And he was just like, oh, yeah.
• 38:02
  I mean, and then immediately almost was like, well, yeah, of
• 38:04
  course. Like that's really hard.
• 38:06
  Like, I mean, nobody understands that part.
• 38:08
  And I'm like, yeah, I'm really glad.
• 38:12
  He's also amazing, but I'm like you said it to your boss that
• 38:16
  you have impostors and I I would have.
• 38:18
  I'm like, that's not you're not going to like get fired and
• 38:21
  you're not like he's not going to doubt you because you
• 38:23
  expressed doubt, right, That you have doubt.
• 38:25
  Right, you don't have to be perfect.
• 38:28
  Like naming it. That's naming it.
• 38:30
  All you have to do in life is feel your emotions, I think.
• 38:32
  And then everything else gets better, if you feel.
• 38:34
  It, yeah, I mean, that's step one.
• 38:37
  And then for the heavy, heavy stuff, though, I can't express
• 38:41
  enough how much therapy, especially if like for trauma,
• 38:46
  you need it right? What do you think?
• 38:50
  Have you again? I'm getting so fired up by all
• 38:52
  these conversations. I'm all over the place as a
• 38:54
  therapist. When someone comes in and
• 38:57
  they've got some really heavy stuff, it's going to take time
• 39:02
  to unravel that. What a wouldn't you say?
• 39:05
  Walking to the office for the first time is such a monumental
• 39:09
  step. Oh yeah.
• 39:10
  I mean, just like anything, getting there is the hardest
• 39:14
  part. And and that a lot of the times
• 39:17
  for folks who maybe have not had safety elsewhere in their life
• 39:23
  to explore these things or to name these things, it's that
• 39:27
  process every single week of, OK, I am getting in my car and
• 39:31
  I'm driving to the office or I'm sitting down at my computer.
• 39:34
  And yes, I'm going to willingly put myself in a vulnerable
• 39:36
  position. And just like getting there is
• 39:41
  half the battle. And so I have so much respect
• 39:45
  for the folks who are choosing to do that because I understand
• 39:50
  why people don't. Because when you feel it can,
• 39:56
  it's, it's, it's you feel some heavy stuff because stuff comes
• 40:01
  up from childhood from any period or but also when you find
• 40:08
  the right therapist and you have that release, you're like, not
• 40:12
  the same, right? In the best way.
• 40:15
  Yeah, to be able to integrate all parts of yourself and to not
• 40:19
  live separated from things that are driving your behavior,
• 40:25
  right. Because whether or not you're
• 40:26
  conscious of it, it's there. And I think that's the
• 40:31
  interesting part because the deep work, it matters and and we
• 40:37
  have to take the time and hold the space for it.
• 40:41
  And then there's the secondary gear that's that at some point
• 40:46
  needs to become simultaneous of OK, managing your emotions,
• 40:51
  naming them, tapping into them, feeling them and working
• 40:55
  behaviorally to shift choices to.
• 40:59
  And that includes things like boundary setting and
• 41:03
  communication in order to actually create a life that is
• 41:08
  different and doesn't support the patterns that were painful
• 41:12
  to you or hurtful to you. And that I mean, that's, that's
• 41:15
  a hard shift to make because it's one thing to become aware,
• 41:18
  to be conscious, there's another to choose differently and to
• 41:22
  choose to implement new patterns.
• 41:26
  And that's when the real like rewiring happens, the
• 41:28
  neuroplasticity, right? So I love how you laid that out.
• 41:32
  It's very makes sense to me. You feel it and you've all the
• 41:36
  like you're shaking out the rug. And the great part is that you
• 41:38
  have somebody next to you because I did some guided
• 41:41
  visualizations and literally like trauma flashbacks and where
• 41:45
  I had to. And I did tapping with her while
• 41:47
  I was doing. Yeah.
• 41:48
  And I remember she was like, even though, even though, like,
• 41:53
  even though the secret's out, I still love and accept myself
• 41:56
  completely or even though. And I'd be like, even though,
• 42:00
  and I'm like, as I'm saying it, I'm like, I don't accept myself
• 42:03
  right now, but I will. But I'm going to keep doing it,
• 42:06
  you know, Or like, you know, I had to.
• 42:09
  I had to confront the thing, feel the thing and then almost
• 42:12
  like she's like, OK, so practically when we're in this
• 42:16
  situation, how what do we what tool do you have from all the
• 42:20
  things or which I have like a toolbox now I'm like, OK, use
• 42:25
  that one, you know, like. Yeah.
• 42:28
  So it's like you have your emergency like RIP cord for
• 42:31
  those situations where it's like I don't have time to sit and
• 42:33
  like tap all this out right now. Like I need to like function
• 42:38
  through this event or this moment and then later when I get
• 42:42
  home. You can have an ugly.
• 42:44
  Cry an ugly cry, I can tap in. I can name it.
• 42:46
  I can 5th. You know, that's where like
• 42:49
  walking I love because so much of our response is this like
• 42:53
  innate physical reaction. It's our nervous system, how it
• 42:56
  was trained in our youth to respond to threats, emotional,
• 43:00
  physical and otherwise. And so our first line of defense
• 43:04
  should often involve some physical element in order to
• 43:09
  turn the alarm off. To say turn the alarm off.
• 43:12
  Thank you, body, for warning me that you think this is danger.
• 43:16
  I'm not in danger. I'm sad and I don't have to be
• 43:19
  afraid of my sadness. Wow.
• 43:27
  That's powerful. I the alarm, everyone can
• 43:31
  relate. The alarm goes off a situation
• 43:33
  you feel hijacked from like a stimulus in a board meeting or
• 43:37
  at school or whatever or at home or in Starbucks and you
• 43:42
  literally. So for people who haven't done
• 43:44
  the nervous system research because it's so fascinating your
• 43:47
  body, so your body thinks like a Saber toothed tiger is.
• 43:50
  Coming. Yeah.
• 43:51
  I don't know if you've seen those reels.
• 43:53
  I think they're so funny. But like my body doesn't know
• 43:55
  the difference between trying to get my long time and being
• 43:58
  chased by a bear. Yes.
• 44:00
  So I'm going to lay down now because I think I'm being
• 44:03
  hunted, but actually I'm just running late.
• 44:07
  Exactly. And those things are set in
• 44:09
  place really early. That part of it too is like
• 44:11
  learning to give yourself grace. Like, yeah, this is here also.
• 44:14
  It doesn't have to stay this way.
• 44:16
  But it's going to take daily intentionality in order to start
• 44:21
  a new pattern and to feel differently about myself and to
• 44:24
  be able to more quickly navigate situations like that.
• 44:27
  Because it it doesn't mean like just because you're aware or you
• 44:31
  have new tools, it doesn't mean that the alarm is not going to
• 44:35
  go off in those moments anymore. Hopefully it doesn't sound as
• 44:39
  loud or maybe it less frequent. But the primary thing is like
• 44:45
  expanding your tolerance for those moments in order to be
• 44:49
  able to keep your brain online to say, OK, I'm going to turn
• 44:53
  this alarm off now by using my tools, by grounding, by, you
• 44:57
  know, deep breathing, by tapping, going for a walk or
• 45:02
  whatever the case may be. There's so many coping skills
• 45:05
  out there and lots of good ones. But whatever your first line of
• 45:09
  defense is. And then from there you can
• 45:11
  actually navigate those situations.
• 45:13
  So it's about expanding the window of tolerance and then
• 45:17
  being able to implement something different so you can
• 45:20
  move out of that distress more quickly.
• 45:25
  That is makes perfect sense to me and it's it would make sense
• 45:30
  that would be very helpful to have a trained person, a trained
• 45:35
  therapist who has studied and who is also a human who has
• 45:40
  studied how this all works from AI mean that's where the magic
• 45:45
  is. I feel like where you're like
• 45:49
  you took a whole class on like 1 little piece of that and then
• 45:53
  also you're a human who's been through that and then also
• 45:56
  you're all you're still learnt. Like this whole nervous system
• 46:00
  thing blew my mind. I was like, what are you talking
• 46:04
  about? What are you literally the
• 46:08
  mastermind? That was the beginning of it.
• 46:10
  And then I went healing her stories.
• 46:12
  My therapist that I used to go to, I remember like why is she
• 46:16
  like so focused on my nervous? Like I remember being like, what
• 46:19
  is this? I remember literally thinking in
• 46:20
  my head like, yeah, yeah, anyway, like, yeah, like, and
• 46:25
  then being like, yeah, I'm like, can we just talk about it?
• 46:27
  Like we're talking about, isn't that going to if you talk about
• 46:31
  it enough, it'll fix like, oh, it's fascinating to me that you
• 46:38
  can that you're that you can also reset it and re you don't
• 46:42
  have to stay where where it was or you can calm it.
• 46:47
  Exactly, and I think that's one of the the misconceptions about
• 46:51
  therapy. I'm just going to go and I'm
• 46:53
  going to talk and it's not going to change anything.
• 46:55
  Well, actually talking does in and of itself change some
• 46:59
  things. It it could doesn't change what
• 47:01
  happened, right. And the right therapist for you
• 47:04
  is going to be able to connect with you, to guide and to help
• 47:11
  your perspective, your orientation, your posture toward
• 47:16
  those events or beliefs. It's going to help you shift
• 47:22
  that so you're not changing the thing.
• 47:24
  You're changing how you engage with the thing.
• 47:29
  I can't, I can't do this anymore.
• 47:30
  There's too many. Good.
• 47:32
  There's me 100 reels, changing your posture towards the thing.
• 47:38
  I love that you said that. You're like, listen, I can't
• 47:40
  change the thing and that's shitty and I'm sorry.
• 47:44
  And we can talk about it, but then I'm gonna change how?
• 47:47
  Like maybe over the course of someone sees you for six months,
• 47:50
  maybe when they walk in that first day and then the six
• 47:53
  months, they're like, The thing is still there and it's still,
• 47:56
  still ugly. But I see.
• 47:59
  I mean, that is exactly what happens with a good therapist.
• 48:03
  Yeah. Exactly.
• 48:07
  And then tell me about how amazing it must feel to see
• 48:13
  your. I know you've posted about it
• 48:15
  when someone comes in and they're like I.
• 48:16
  Did. The thing or like I did it and
• 48:19
  it was horrible, but I still did it or I did it and it worked.
• 48:22
  Are you just like Oh. My gosh, it's amazing because
• 48:25
  like we all need that person who is going to believe in us even
• 48:30
  when we don't believe in ourselves or like hold on to
• 48:32
  hope when we have none. And sometimes that's all it can
• 48:36
  be. I'm here and I don't believe
• 48:38
  you, but I want to like that matter.
• 48:42
  So then to see someone move maybe from that position of
• 48:45
  feeling so downtrodden or hopeless to reclaiming their
• 48:50
  life, to being willing to honor themselves and protect
• 48:55
  themselves and doing really hard things in order to get there.
• 48:59
  I mean, it's the greatest privilege of my life.
• 49:01
  And it truly it is not my work that does that.
• 49:07
  It is the client's willingness and the client work because so
• 49:10
  much of it takes place outside of the therapy session, right?
• 49:14
  It's their willingness to be like, OK, I'm going to trust
• 49:18
  that in this process and I'm going to do it even though it
• 49:21
  feels like the craziest thing I could ever do.
• 49:25
  And then all the sudden things, things feel different for them.
• 49:29
  So to see that and to feel that is, I mean, it's beyond words.
• 49:34
  I'm sure it's quite overwhelming at times where you just have
• 49:38
  like moments where you just like cry happy tears because you're
• 49:42
  just like, wow, like, and you just see that like people are so
• 49:47
  resilient. Like holy, some tough stuff.
• 49:52
  Yeah, the resilience of the human spirit goes beyond my
• 49:56
  imagination that it's not something I can fully
• 49:59
  comprehend, but to be able to witness it first hand is
• 50:05
  incredible. And my clients know that I
• 50:09
  crazy. Like I'm getting messy over
• 50:11
  here. Like getting messy.
• 50:14
  I love. See.
• 50:16
  Yeah. And you know what?
• 50:18
  I again, I'm not a therapist. I just play 1 on TV.
• 50:22
  No, I'm not a therapist. I just pretend to be one with
• 50:25
  with a podcast. No, I I pretend to be a lot of
• 50:27
  things. I'm kidding, all right?
• 50:30
  Edit No, I pretend to be a podcaster.
• 50:32
  I No, I'm kidding. I I don't I.
• 50:34
  Am a podcaster. I am one.
• 50:37
  I lost my train of thought because I I distracted myself
• 50:40
  there. No, when you were saying like
• 50:43
  the moments where you the resilience, right?
• 50:47
  I feel like there's just once you see how resilient someone
• 50:54
  can be and like have a one-on-one interaction with
• 50:57
  them, it almost awakens something in yourself.
• 51:01
  I'm sure where you're like, wait, I'm a human too.
• 51:07
  I can and I've seen their journey.
• 51:09
  And then maybe in your personal life, when you're, you know,
• 51:11
  living human, I'm sure your clients flash across.
• 51:15
  I mean your, your training, your tools, but then also.
• 51:18
  Yeah. And I think that's, I mean, I,
• 51:21
  I'm a relational therapist. There are so many different
• 51:24
  kinds of therapists out there and they're each one of us.
• 51:27
  But relational therapy, I mean, it prioritizes the therapeutic
• 51:32
  relationship. And so even though it is a
• 51:35
  professional relationship, it's a real 1.
• 51:38
  And I think that so core to the way that I operate in my work,
• 51:43
  it's like, yeah, I my care for them is genuine and it is
• 51:48
  boundary, but is real. And so like any relationship, of
• 51:54
  course there's going to be, I see a meme and it's like, Oh my
• 51:56
  gosh. So and so that would, I don't
• 51:59
  think I I tell them about it in session, but I don't send it.
• 52:03
  Yeah. You're like I want to.
• 52:05
  I want to, but I don't. But other times where like, you
• 52:08
  know, I know that a client is going through something heavy or
• 52:11
  is about to take a big step. And so of course they're on my
• 52:15
  mind in between session and, and I think that that's a positive
• 52:19
  thing. It's a really unique role to be
• 52:21
  so intimately involved in someone's life and to not have
• 52:25
  contact outside of that really unique base and to not share
• 52:33
  that with other people, I feel like.
• 52:35
  Like I know everything and it's. Fine.
• 52:37
  Sometimes where I'm like, you know, honey, I'm off to work and
• 52:40
  then I'm like flying to Brazil or something, you know, it's
• 52:42
  like, and no one will ever know about it, but it's, it's so cool
• 52:45
  to be able to do that. And so it's, yeah, it's
• 52:48
  definitely an interesting position to be in at times.
• 52:52
  Well, and I can I'm visualizing your office sacred story
• 52:55
  counseling and like all literally it's like contains
• 52:59
  these sacred stories and now I'm getting into like now I'm
• 53:03
  getting chills. So they come in and their story
• 53:06
  is sacred, but I feel like the work you're doing all your OK if
• 53:10
  all your little OK. I'm doing like a visual.
• 53:12
  If all your clients, you're sitting in your between sessions
• 53:15
  having your getting ready for the next 1, you know, doing your
• 53:19
  breathing and each one of your clients with your on the couch.
• 53:23
  It's all cozy and amazing. All their stories like floating
• 53:26
  in there in a safe space and then every time they come in, it
• 53:30
  shifts. It's not that it goes the pain
• 53:32
  doesn't go away, but then like it morphs into them starting to
• 53:35
  heal and like taking a different looking at it differently.
• 53:39
  Your space contains a lot of stories, but like how amazing,
• 53:45
  like you're literally, I hope you know the the impact
• 53:50
  therapists are like my ride or dies.
• 53:52
  They're like, it's like a first responder type feeling for me
• 53:55
  towards like this is the you're the first responders.
• 53:59
  Like emotionally. Yeah, it's.
• 54:03
  What do you? I mean it's.
• 54:04
  Amazing. It is amazing.
• 54:05
  And it also, you know, there there is a weight to it.
• 54:08
  There can be a toll to it. My brother is a firefighter.
• 54:14
  And so one day we were talking just about some of the
• 54:18
  challenges of the work that we do.
• 54:19
  And he was like, I didn't realize that like there's a
• 54:23
  crisis element to your job. I was like, yeah, it is.
• 54:28
  And then I go home and make dinner, right.
• 54:30
  Like in the same way runs into a burning building and then goes
• 54:34
  home and plays with his kids. It's like we're just, we're that
• 54:38
  first responder in a different way.
• 54:40
  And yeah, so I I don't know that.
• 54:44
  Do you that. I'm really glad you brought that
• 54:46
  up as a therapist and whatever you're comfortable sharing.
• 54:51
  It's very important that therapists and if any first
• 54:54
  responders are listening. I had Parker was on an episode.
• 54:57
  He was an EMT. He, he really had to process
• 54:59
  some stuff and he said that he would contain it at the moment
• 55:03
  because there's like anger of situations he would walk into
• 55:06
  and then he would find after he would be like, I'm so mad or
• 55:10
  like, but then I'm like, how did you?
• 55:13
  He's like in the moment, you kind of just, but then you get
• 55:15
  home when you're like, that is not right.
• 55:16
  Or like, how do you, how, how as somebody in that type of
• 55:20
  profession, you have to nurture yourself and get make sure you
• 55:23
  have support. Absolutely.
• 55:24
  And, you know, I, I intermittently go to my own
• 55:27
  therapy and that's part of why just have my own container to be
• 55:32
  able to, you know, the things that I hear or see other clients
• 55:38
  go through that is just hard to witness a but also some of the
• 55:42
  things that then touch on my own story and my own grief.
• 55:45
  Being able to have my own container to be like, OK, yeah,
• 55:49
  this was activated this week because of XY and Z, you know,
• 55:55
  but movement is so huge for me, being able to just walk, you
• 55:59
  know, I have a dog and so my she is like just my little support
• 56:05
  animal, like love her. I have two cats as well.
• 56:08
  So, you know, get my animal love, make sure that I'm
• 56:10
  spending time with my friends, but also just taking the time to
• 56:15
  take care of my mind and my body to move.
• 56:17
  And, and that's frequently what I do after work.
• 56:19
  I'll just like, I'll go walk and kind of get it out because,
• 56:24
  yeah, there's a lot of, there's a lot of hard things that happen
• 56:29
  to folks in life. And to know that sometimes we
• 56:32
  won't see justice on this side of the veil, that that can be
• 56:37
  really hard to hold. Oh yeah, very, very.
• 56:43
  And you know, I think one thing I'm learning too, again, just
• 56:48
  from the podcasting perspective is you have to treat everybody
• 56:55
  with, and I knew it before, but like treat everybody with
• 57:00
  immense care because you don't know what they're bringing to
• 57:04
  the table or what they just heard or what they are helping
• 57:07
  someone go through or what they're going through 'cause
• 57:12
  some of it's just too heavy to talk about outside of a
• 57:14
  therapist's office, right, right.
• 57:16
  Or they're not ready if some people are ready and be like,
• 57:20
  here's my story. And some people are like, I
• 57:22
  could never do that, but thank you for sharing.
• 57:24
  And I just can't do it, but I will take so whoever can.
• 57:28
  I don't know. I just, I was, I'm just
• 57:34
  picturing you. I was actually picturing you
• 57:35
  'cause I know you've posted reels of you like going for a
• 57:37
  walk with the dog. And I'm like, so glad that you
• 57:40
  prioritize that because that energy goes back and forth and
• 57:46
  you have to. Process it exactly.
• 57:49
  And be able to show up for the people in my personal life to be
• 57:53
  able to, like, be fun, silly mom.
• 57:56
  And that can be challenging at times when especially the
• 58:01
  unexpected, like if I have a really heavy day where, you
• 58:04
  know, multiple of my clients come in with a new type of
• 58:08
  heaviness or crisis and it's like, whoa, OK.
• 58:11
  So yeah, just finding ways to make sure that I'm able to
• 58:13
  transition well into home life. Yeah, and it it's you're never
• 58:19
  done right. You're never done.
• 58:21
  You're never going to. It's it's think I'm learning.
• 58:24
  It's the constant self nurturing and feeling of the emotions.
• 58:28
  It's just going to be continuous and you're bobbing along and
• 58:31
  then sometimes there's like a drop and then sometimes you
• 58:34
  watch someone else drop and you're like, OK, I got you.
• 58:36
  And then sometimes you're like, oh, it's me this time.
• 58:39
  Shit like and then sometimes I feel like you're, you surprise
• 58:44
  yourself about how well you handle something that and then
• 58:46
  sometimes you're like, oh, normally I'm fine.
• 58:48
  Why am I bawling about this? And then if you take the time
• 58:51
  and you're like, oh, it's because of XY and Z or like, for
• 58:55
  whatever reason, like my grief box is open today and that just
• 58:59
  has to be OK. And I'm gonna go and let myself
• 59:03
  lose it in the shower for a little bit.
• 59:05
  You know, if that's the only place that I have, then taking
• 59:08
  the time to actually let it out and then OK, let's move through
• 59:12
  it. Hannah, I I just looked at the
• 59:18
  time too, and we, we hit our hour like I usually.
• 59:21
  I mean, here's the thing. I have many ideas.
• 59:23
  We well, obviously you're coming back.
• 59:25
  Of course. This is an introduction, an
• 59:28
  introduction to sacred story counseling and what hopefully
• 59:33
  could be a consistent voice. Sometimes when she wants to come
• 59:37
  on and talk about things related to adversity, whether it's
• 59:40
  yourself or we focus on specific topics and you can give some
• 59:44
  tools. And I mean, you could.
• 59:48
  There's so many things you know you're going to, I'm going to be
• 59:50
  your stalker for the next week. So you already know that it's
• 59:53
  going to go up. It's going to go up to like a
• 59:55
  creepy level. It scared me like, wow.
• 59:57
  I just first I want to thank you from the bottom of my bleeding
• 1:00:01
  heart because you are a peer, a friend.
• 1:00:06
  I consider you like a mentor because I just, well, you're a
• 1:00:10
  therapist, counselor. So you're automatically like, so
• 1:00:15
  I just want to thank you. I know you have a lot of
• 1:00:17
  clients, you have kids, you have a husband, you have friends, you
• 1:00:21
  have a business. And you carved out time for
• 1:00:25
  absolutely and I and and all the listeners that that's the most
• 1:00:29
  important thing. Everyone that's hearing this is
• 1:00:31
  going to get a nugget that could potentially change their posture
• 1:00:36
  towards something. Yeah, I mean, that's our hope is
• 1:00:38
  that our story could connect, even if it's with one other
• 1:00:41
  person, one who needs some encouragement or even the nudge
• 1:00:46
  to like, hey, maybe it's time. Maybe it's time to give yourself
• 1:00:50
  that space because everyone deserves it.
• 1:00:53
  One deserves an unbiased space to process their story.
• 1:00:58
  And that's what you provide, and that's why you're amazing.
• 1:01:02
  And that's why I will be your eternal hype girl for life.
• 1:01:05
  It's mutual. I am your hype girl as well.
• 1:01:07
  And yeah, thank you for welcoming me on the podcast.
• 1:01:10
  I I love what you're doing and your energy is so contagious.
• 1:01:15
  And I'm just thankful that our our paths have crossed and that
• 1:01:18
  we get to continue to encourage one another and and hopefully
• 1:01:21
  continue the impact. Oh yes, thank you.
• 1:01:25
  And I'm going to put all your Instagram, your website, if you
• 1:01:30
  are a resident in Michigan, in person therapy, online therapy.
• 1:01:35
  If you'd like to come to Michigan for an intensive, all
• 1:01:38
  the info will be in the show notes.
• 1:01:41
  I highly encourage you to follow Hannah because your content is
• 1:01:45
  so real and relatable. Where I feel so seen when I'm
• 1:01:50
  like, that was me in the morning at the fridge one morning.
• 1:01:53
  I'm like, are you kidding me? She's are you in my house right
• 1:01:57
  now? And then it makes you feel
• 1:01:59
  normal. So thank you for like showing
• 1:02:03
  that side of yourself, especially as a therapist.
• 1:02:06
  Like it's just so, so good. Keep my friends and I'm
• 1:02:12
  definitely not a superhero. Superhuman, like being a
• 1:02:15
  therapist is good work. It's sacred work, and it's only
• 1:02:19
  possible when we have people supporting us.
• 1:02:22
  So thank you for being a person who does that for me and for the
• 1:02:26
  other people and especially other therapists in your life.
• 1:02:28
  You're someone who's super intentional to like, speak,
• 1:02:31
  encouragement, and life over others, and we all need that.
• 1:02:35
  Hey, that's why we met. Well, we are going to wrap up
• 1:02:41
  episode 51. Woo.
• 1:02:45
  And please look at the show notes because this is my girl
• 1:02:49
  Hannah, and this will be the first of many.
• 1:02:52
  Absolutely can't wait to come back.
• 1:02:55
  All right, sister, I'll talk to you soon.
• 1:02:56
  Bye. Bye.
• 1:02:57
  Bye.