Latest / Pastor John Piper's answers / Silent Women, Speaking Women

Transcript

Silent Women, Speaking Women · Pastor John Piper's answers

• 0:03
  Speaker 1: Welcome back to the podcast. Well, in all your emails
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: to us over the years a lot of emails, Romans
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: nine twenty two is the most asked about text all time.
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: It's a hard text, so there's no surprise that it
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: raises so many questions in our minds. But our second
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: most asked about text all time is one Timothy two twelve.
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: We read it this week in our Bible reading, and
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: it's on the mind of at least one woman listening
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: to the podcast right now, and probably many others as well.
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: I bet, dear Pastor John, thank you for APJ. In
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: first Timothy two twelve, Paul writes, I do not permit
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man. Rather,
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: she is to remain quiet. I'm trying to understand exactly
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: what Paul is forbidding here. Does this mean women should
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: never teach men, even in Bible studies or classrooms? Is
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: he only referring to the formal role of pastor or elder?
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: What about women sharing insights or asking questions small groups discussions.
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: I know women are praised for prophesying in both the
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: Old and New Testaments, and then she gives these verses
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: of Exodus fifteen, twenty Judges four, verses four and five,
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: Tewo Kings twenty two, verses fourteen to twenty, Isaiah eight three,
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: Loop two thirty six to thirty eight, Acts twenty one
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: eight to nine, and one Corinthians eleven fifteen. So how
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: do we reconcile these realities to Paul's prohibition in fir
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: Timothy two twelve, And how can I faithfully live out
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: this teaching in a way that honors God's designed for
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: men and women in the church.
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: So here's the key text that we're all more or
• 1:37
  Speaker 2: less concerned about. And write me so one Timothy two
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: eleven to fourteen. Let a woman learn quietly with all submissiveness.
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: I do not permit a woman to teach or to
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: exercise authority over a man. Rather, she is to remain quiet,
• 1:55
  Speaker 2: For Adam was formed first, and then Eve, and Adam
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: was not, But the woman was deceived and became a transgressor. Now,
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: there are not many passages in the Bible more out
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: of step with modern culture than this one. That's one
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: of the reasons why we get so many questions about it.
• 2:14
  Speaker 2: This text raises at least fifty questions, which is why
• 2:19
  Speaker 2: Wayne Grudem and I tried to synthesize our big blue
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: book about Manhood and Womanhood into a little book called
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: Fifty Crucial Questions about Manhood and Womanhood less than one
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: hundred pages. And I recommend it because that's his best
• 2:36
  Speaker 2: shot at putting in a small compass fifty kinds of
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: questions people can ask about this issue. So seriously, I
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: would love for people to get it. And just remember,
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: I don't get any royalties from these books. This is
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: not a pitch for how to make my books sell.
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: It doesn't sound much. You would be doing a nice
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: treat to yourself. I think if you plugged in and
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: plowed into those fifty questions, I may be able to
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: answer one or two of those questions in this episode,
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: which will leave forty eight questions unanswered. And I really
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: do hope that listeners will seek out biblical answers, not
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: just culturally acceptable answers. So here's where I start. When
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: Paul supported his statement that a woman should not teach
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: or have authority over a man, his support was not
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: to argue from culture, but from creation. That's where I start.
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: He did not say something like, well, in this culture
• 3:35
  Speaker 2: in this first century culture, it's expected that women be submissive,
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: So since the Church shouldn't put a stumbling block in
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: the way of the Gospel, we should go along with
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: this for the time being. He did not argue like that,
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: That's not the way, he argued. He argued by pointing
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: to Adam and Eve and God's design for manhood and
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: womanhood in the way he created and ordered the world
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: at the beginning. This design cuts across all cultures, though
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: it of course inevitably is influenced in its form by
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: those cultures. We'll see that in just a minute. That's
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: where I start. The Bible is very aware of the
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: role of culture in shaping the symbols of man's headship
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: and woman's submission. You can see that in one Grintians
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: eleven three to sixteen, where Paul deals with head coverings
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: and length of hair. God expects us to have spiritual discernment,
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: so we don't throw out the baby of God's designs
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: for sexual differences with the bathwater of changing cultural symbols
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: and all the implications that has for how we live.
• 4:52
  Speaker 2: Then I turned from the foundation of manhood and womanhood
• 4:57
  Speaker 2: in creation to Paul's explanation and of how it worked
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: itself out in the home, in the church, and eventually
• 5:06
  Speaker 2: in all of life. In Ephesians five, Paul argues from
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: creation again that in the family, men are to be
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: the head of their wives and love her as Christ
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: love the church, and women are to be subject to
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: that leadership the way a glad and glorious church is
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: subject to Christ. And then in regard to the church,
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: in one Timothy to twelve, women are not to teach
• 5:30
  Speaker 2: or have authority over men. I think the first and
• 5:33
  Speaker 2: clearest implication of that verse is to realize that these
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: two actions, teaching and having authority, are the very two
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: actions that distinguish an elder or overseer or pastor. Those
• 5:49
  Speaker 2: are the same office in Paul's mind, distinguish an elder
• 5:54
  Speaker 2: or a pastor from the other office of the church,
• 5:58
  Speaker 2: namely deacons. If you compare the list of qualifications required
• 6:03
  Speaker 2: for the elder or overseer or pastor, able to teach
• 6:08
  Speaker 2: and able to govern or exercise authority wisely in the
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: church are the two that distinguish the elder from the deacon.
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: So we see the first qualification in fir Timothy three
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: to two and the second qualification in first Timothy five seventeen.
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: Let elders who rule well govern well be considered worthy
• 6:33
  Speaker 2: of double honor. That's five seventeen. So I conclude that
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: for Paul in the church, the first and clearest implication
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: of the created order of male and female is that
• 6:48
  Speaker 2: spiritually qualified men rather than women, should be the overseers.
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: Elders pastors of the church, and their central job is
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: to provide guiding, authoritative teaching to the church as part
• 7:04
  Speaker 2: of their overall authority in leadership. I think a good
• 7:08
  Speaker 2: argument can be made that when Paul said women shouldn't teach,
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: he didn't mean every kind of teaching in every situation,
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: but rather he saw teaching in for Timpathy two twelve,
• 7:23
  Speaker 2: as combined with exercising authority over men, and so the
• 7:28
  Speaker 2: teaching in view was specifically toward men, and even more specifically,
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: a teaching in such a way that it embodies a
• 7:38
  Speaker 2: kind of authority that would make it unfitting toward men
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: if a woman did it. The argument for this would include,
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: for example, observations like Proverbs thirty one twenty six, which
• 7:52
  Speaker 2: speaks of a woman having the teaching of kindness on
• 7:55
  Speaker 2: her lips. Titus two three speaks of women teaching younger women.
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: First Corinthians eleven speaks of women prophesying in church with
• 8:04
  Speaker 2: appropriate symbols of submission. Acts eighteen twenty six speaks of
• 8:09
  Speaker 2: Priscilla and Aquila setting Upolus straight in their private setting
• 8:14
  Speaker 2: with him to give him more accurate teaching. Two Timothy
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: one five and three fourteen remind Timothy of the life
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: shaping teaching that they got from their mother and grandm
• 8:24
  Speaker 2: he got from his mother and grandmother. And one Peter
• 8:27
  Speaker 2: three one to six describes a woman's submission to her
• 8:30
  Speaker 2: husband in such a way that she clearly is thinking
• 8:34
  Speaker 2: for herself in not following her husband into unbelief or
• 8:38
  Speaker 2: into sin. So what does that imply about the wider
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: ministry of women, especially as it regards teaching and leading. Remember,
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: there are forty eight questions left unanswered, but I will
• 8:53
  Speaker 2: try to close with a general statement that I hope
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: will provide guidance for the wider application of this biblical
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: truth that we've seen. Spiritually, mature womanhood should disincline a
• 9:07
  Speaker 2: woman from taking opportunities to teach men, including mixed adult groups,
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: wherever that role would embody the kind of authoritative engagement
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: that would be like the teaching and authority of an
• 9:22
  Speaker 2: elder in the church. That's the principle that I try
• 9:26
  Speaker 2: to follow, or to put it positively, Spiritual women should
• 9:32
  Speaker 2: fill their lives with christ exalting ministries that come alongside
• 9:38
  Speaker 2: the leadership of spiritual men, and find their fruitfulness in
• 9:42
  Speaker 2: ways that support and complement that leadership. There is a
• 9:47
  Speaker 2: fitness in the nature of things, by virtue of creation
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: and God's design that causes women to flourish under the strong, humble,
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: spiritual leadership of men, which is not true about men
• 10:06
  Speaker 2: under the leadership of women. I think that's implied in
• 10:09
  Speaker 2: these texts. And this is not at all a matter
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: of competence in skills. It's a matter of what goes
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: deep into the soul of a man and a woman
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: as they discover the way God designed them to relate.
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Amen, thank you, pastor John. You can get a
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: digital copy of fifty Crucial Questions about Manhood and Womanhood
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: online right now, free for the taking. Find the free
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: pdf by going to Desiring Good dot org forward slash
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: Books and it's right there at the top of the page.
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: Fifty Crucial Questions about Manhood and Womanhood. A little one
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: hundred page book. Enjoy, think about John, and thank you
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: for joining us today. We're staying on the topic of womanhood.
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: Next time, we're getting at Proverbs eleven twenty two. Like
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: a gold ring in a pig snout is a beautiful
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: woman without discretion? How to attractive women abuse their beauty?
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: We find out next time. Come Tony Reiki see all
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: Monday