Latest / Beyond Labels Premium / Episode #146: Pharming the Fields: Unraveling the Controversy Behind Pharmaceutical Crops

Transcript

Episode #146: Pharming the Fields: Unraveling the Controversy Behind Pharmaceutical Crops · Beyond Labels Premium

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_02: I think both of us feel a little bit like uh we've been stealth stealth ambushed on this which is i which is identical to the way the original genetically modified organism, the GMO uh uh development came upon us.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_02: And so uh so this is same same same boat crossing the same river, it seems like.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_02: Welcome everyone to another episode of Beyond Labels.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_02: I'm your host, Joel Salatin, the farmer, along with my best co-host and partner, Dr.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_02: Cena McCullough, who's gonna lead us today in a discussion about pharmaceutical crops.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_02: We introduced this a couple of episodes back, but it is really gaining steam both in the media and among uh clearly concerns in our in our subscriber base.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_02: And so I would encourage you, uh, shameless plug here, if if this is a concerning topic and you have friends and relatives and and people that you think need to know this, please uh send this on to them so they can they can understand what's going on as well.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_02: Because I believe that this the pharmaceutical genetically engineered crop um uh whatever scenario that we're seeing right now, it's it's stealthy, it's being done uh a lot in the in the dark, and it's very, very much like the beginning, the early big the beginnings of the genetically modified um organism you know development that happened a couple of decades ago.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_02: And and essentially, by the time by the time we knew we had this issue, it was it was baked in, if you will, it was baked into the industrial food system by the time most of us realized it was happening.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_02: We see the same kind of thing in in this that's going on pharmaceutical foods.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_02: So um, Sina, I'll pass it over to you to um read a couple of the emails we got from readers that that stimulated us to um you know to dig a little bit deeper on this topic and handle it some more.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_02: So, Sina, what do you got?
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_00: Great.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so last time that we talked about this transgenic edible crop um scenario was based on the Tennessee lawmakers passing a bill that was targeting the mRNA vaccine in food.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_00: And that bill's been dubbed like the vaccine lettuce bill.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_00: I have an update on that bill.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so we said last time that it was passed and it was waiting for the governor's signature.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_00: It has been signed by Governor Bill Lee.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_00: He signed it on April 22nd.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's it's effective now.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so after that podcast aired, we had a couple listeners email in.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um, one was Ravonda Brumfield um talking about um this she heard us talking about this, and she sent along this YouTube video for us to watch from The Shepherdists.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_00: It's it was featuring Thomas Massey, and it was about um that amendment that Thomas Massey was able to get passed, where he proposed that we defund the research behind this, you know, um the edible vaccines, if you will.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and we had mentioned in the last podcast that that was passed, but it was left out.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_00: And then uh, so we got this new omnibus bill, and his amendment was left out.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_00: And so currently, taxpayers are still funding research for transgenic edible vaccines.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_00: So thank you, Rwanda, for sending that in.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um, she tells us that this should be shouted from the rooftops.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_00: We agree with you, Ravonda, and that's what we're doing now.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_00: So the second email that we received was from Maureen Galt, and she said she listened to that podcast about the Tennessee lawmakers passing the bill.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_00: And then she came across an article published by the Organic Consumers Association.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_00: And that article basically says that the Tennessee bill is a nothing bill, that it doesn't address the real issue of the mRNA quote unquote vaccine contamination, um, you know, because of the open field trials.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_00: And she's asking, do you think the label from the Tennessee bill, them labeling these foods as drugs, could it backfire on further action that could be taken?
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, great question, Maureen.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_00: So this prompted us to dive deep into this issue.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_00: And we found some information that was new to Joel and I, right, Joel?
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_00: Like I don't think neither one of us knew the prevalence of this open field, um, these open field crop trials.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_02: That's what I'm saying.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's a we we I think both of us feel a little bit like uh we've been stealth, stealth ambushed here on this, which is which is I which is identical to the way the original genetically modified organism, the GMO uh uh development came upon us.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_02: And so um, so this is same same same boat crossing the same river, it seems like.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, exactly.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_00: So I want to take this episode to dive into this.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_00: Let's talk a little bit about um what are pharmaceutical crops.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_00: We'll do just a brief history so people understand how far back this goes, as well as the current state of this.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I was mentioning before we got on the air to Joel that I found this uh document published by the USDA where they're saying thousands of field trials have been performed just with genetically engineered corn.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_00: And that's that's the ones that USDA knows of.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_00: That's under their authority.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_00: So thousands of these genetically engineered crops, um, these pharma crops have been planted.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and and that's that's from just one document, and that's just pertaining to corn.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_00: So, as we'll get into it, this is actually ubiquitous, um, in my opinion.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_00: And we're gonna get into the laws.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_00: What do we think should happen with this?
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_00: You know, as Maureen said, do we want Tennessee?
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_00: Do we want that law to be passed?
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_00: What do we think about Massey's law?
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_00: What should we do moving forward?
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and and basically figure out, even as a tribe, what can be done about this so we can get this stopped.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_00: So let's start.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_00: And I will say, um, the organic thing, Maureen, thank you for sending in that uh article from the OCA.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_00: There's a lot of great information in it.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_00: And as we're going to go through here, I'll tell you too like some of it I agree with and some of it actually I don't agree with.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_00: So we're gonna get into all of that.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_00: So the question here that we're talking about is what should be done with these open air field trials of pharma crops.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, the it's a concern because when they're open air, meaning they're not like in a research lab, they're not enclosed, like in a greenhouse, for instance, they're exposed to the open air.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_00: And we know that there's been some situations where there's already been contamination, which we discussed in the last podcast.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_00: So pharmacrops, let's start here.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_00: A pharmaceutical crop, which is also called a farmer crop, it's actually any crop that's used to produce a protein that will be turned into a pharmaceutical, so a prescription drug, for instance, or a vaccine, which we call biological, or an industrial enzyme, or a reagent that can be used in biochemical laboratories.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so when we say pharmacrops, we don't just mean edible vaccines.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_00: We mean they're using these crops to also make pharmaceuticals along with vaccines, but also enzymes and reagents for um for to be used in laboratories.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_00: Most of the pharmacrops are grown, surprisingly, in open fields.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so they're grown in an open field, they're harvested, and then the protein is actually purified for use.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_00: And according for uh according to the Center for Food Safety, they said um open field trials of these pharmaceutical crops have taken place every single growing season since 1992.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_00: Right, so these have been out in the open air every season since 1992.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so if we go back just a brief history, um the first patent on edible vaccines was documented in 1990.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, by 1992, uh Dr.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_00: Charles Um Arnson introduced the use of the transgenic plants as a delivery system um for edible vaccines.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so he introduced it in his lab.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_00: During the 90s, this is when we had this huge expansion of edible vaccines.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_00: We had um Artsnet's team or Artson's team, he worked on Streptococcus antigens, hepatitis antigens.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_00: They worked on it in tobacco plants and potato tubers.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_00: Then other researchers jumped on board uh like Masson in 1992.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_00: He actually achieved the successful expression of HEP B antigens.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and they said that it could be administered orally, um, and it was successful in animals.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_00: You had some other scientists stepping in here too and working on like the Norwalk virus and E.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_00: coli, and they all showed that uh you could elicit that immune response in animals when they consumed these plant-dry proteins orally.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, and then the pivotal moment came, and you're gonna love this, Joel.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_00: The pivotal moment came in 1998.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_00: This was when there was a trial with 14 adults, okay.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_00: These were healthy adults.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_00: 11 of them consumed bite-sized pieces of a raw potato, and it was genetically engineered to produce part of a toxin that would be secreted by E.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_00: coli.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_00: And it would, and that toxin would cause diarrhea.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so so 11, 11 healthy people ate the bite-sized pieces of the potato that were genetically engineered, and the remaining three volunteers ate bite-sized pieces of just an ordinary potato.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_00: So 91% of those people, which was 11 out of 10, who consumed that transgenic potato, they developed a fourfold increase in antibodies.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, fourfold increase in antibodies in their blood, and a fourfold increase in antibodies in the intestine.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_00: This is the study.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_00: This is the groundbreaking study that actually sparked the edible vaccine era.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, it was the first time that an edible vaccine was shown to generate a significant immune response in a human.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, and then the director at the time of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Infectious Disease, he basically announced the potential for edible vaccines to reduce disease burdens for like all kinds of disease, including hepatitis and diarrhea.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_00: This is what he said.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_00: Edible vaccines offer exciting possibilities for significant reducing, significantly reducing the burden of diseases like hepatitis and diarrhea, particularly in the developing world, where storing and administering vaccines are often major problems.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, Joel, can you guess who was the director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Disease at that time in 1998?
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I wonder if it would be a guy named Dr.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_02: Anthony Fauci.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_00: Ding ding ding.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_00: Dr.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_00: Fauci is involved in this as well.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yes.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_00: So as I said, that sparked this whole era of these edible vaccines.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_00: It was supported by the government.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_00: Funding came from the government.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_00: Since then, we've had a diverse range of plants that have been used to make these edible vaccines.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_00: Anything from potatoes to tobacco to bananas to tomatoes to wheat, rice, lettuce, and so forth.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_00: They've already created these to target certain diseases and conditions like rabies, HEP, AIDS, cholera, cancer, um, hemorrhage, gastroenteritis, Alzheimer's disease, measles, malaria, type 1 diabetes, and foot and mouth disease.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_00: And as I said, they've so they've expanded to pharmaceuticals, enzymes, and reagents.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_00: So expanded beyond these edible vaccines.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_00: So that is a little brief history.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_00: Now let's go to what is the current state, right?
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_00: What are the types of crops that are growing now?
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_00: So this stems back from um Prodigene.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_00: Prodigy, the Prodigene scandal was what we talked about in the last podcast.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_00: This was in 2002.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_00: This was when Prodigene genetically engineered corn to produce a vaccine for pigs.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_00: And that was the one that contaminated 500,000 bushels of soybean in Nebraska.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um, then there was another incident of contamination of 155 acres of corn that was grown next to a plot of Protegene's GMO pig vaccine corn.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, it was contaminated by wind bone pollen.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_00: So we already had these examples of contamination going back to 2002.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_00: We don't know how much contamination happened before that because most of us weren't even aware that this was happening.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_00: Prodigene at the time was also involved in engineering corn to produce the HIV vaccine and blood clotting agents.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_00: They had already received 85 test permits for conducting experimental open-air trials of these genetically engineered pharma crops.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um, they were planting in at least 96 locations.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_00: They received$6 million in money from the governor's biotechnology partnership.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_00: It was funded by Monsanto and chaired by the Iowa governor Tom Vilsack.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_00: So you know, Vilsack, Joel, he's still currently um Biden's ag secretary, right?
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, that's correct.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, so he's the he was he was under Obama and then Biden brought him back.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_02: He's a total, total uh agro, you know, agro-industrial complex shill.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yes.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_00: So he was actively involved in this as well.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_00: And as Joel just mentioned, and I want to really reiterate, this is not a party issue, right?
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_00: This is both um it this goes across party uh party lines, is what I'm trying to say.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_00: Like this just keeps moving forward, regardless of who's the president, it seems.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_00: So um what happened was Prodigene, it now has it operates under a new name, right?
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_00: This is also part of what happens, people change the names.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_00: So the new name is the Applied Technology Institute.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_00: They continue to conduct open-air field trials.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_00: And here I just want to share a couple so you can get an idea of the range of these different pharma crops that they're currently um producing.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_00: So one of them is called endocellulase.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_00: This is an enzyme that breaks down cellulose and it will accelerate the breakdown of that plant material into ethanol.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_00: So this is being used in the biofuel industry.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so this one, endocellulase in particular, has faced a lot of opposition, particularly from the North American Millers Association.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_00: They basically warned that even a minimal contamination could compromise the quality of food corn, right?
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_00: Because this again is happening in corn.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_00: And in 2017, they were proven right.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um, contamination became common.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_00: There were significant economic losses because farmers had to start destroying large quantities of compromised corn, right?
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_00: So one example is the endocellulase.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_00: Another example would be avidin, right?
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_00: Avidin is probably more familiar to people.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_00: This is a protein that's found in the raw egg whites and it can bind to biotin.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, Joel, I remember avidin, I always remembered because in grad school we were told don't eat raw eggs because you can end up with the biotin deficiency, a B vitamin deficiency.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_00: And I remember thinking, oh man, because Rocky ate raw eggs, you know, like that was a thing to do, right?
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_00: Bodybuilders did that.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_00: And um, I I know people today who eat raw eggs, but yes, apparently it binds to biotin um and prevents its absorption.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_00: So what happened was the Applied Biotechnology Institute, they created a recombinant avidin that they said was functionally equivalent to chicken avidin, but it was engineered using a plant.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_00: So what they're doing was trying to have an a plant-based alternative to these to avidin.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_00: So um they the paper that this is based off of said that this recombinant avidin was so stable and effective that it can be incorporated, incorporated into ground cornmeal and other foods.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_00: So they actually did that.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_00: They incorporated it into cornmeal, they fed it to mice, and they said it's the protein survived digestion and an elicited immune response in the mouse.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_00: And they said this would showcase its potential as a quote delivery system for oral vaccines.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um, another one is um aprottenin.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_00: Originally, this was actually derived from bovine pancreas.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_00: It was actually withdrawn from the market because of increased risk of death compared to other blood clotting agents.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_00: And then later on, it was reapproved for medical use.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_00: Kind of a sketchy backstory there.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_00: Well, the Applied Biotechnology Institute once again engineered um an animal source-free recombinant.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_00: They genetically engineered it using um corn.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_00: The authors concluded this was an quote, affordable way to make high-quality pharmaceuticals in plants.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_00: So again, another pharmaceutical made in a plant, and they're trying to avoid using the animal, uh, the animal sources.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_00: There's several other ones here.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I won't go into the detail.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_00: There's um, I think it's um Brazine.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's actually in a fruit that's known for its sweetness, but the Applied Biotechnology Institute figured out how to genetically engineer it using corn.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_00: And then they said you can directly put that in food.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um, trypsine, corn, synthesis to corn um genetically engineered to create a synthetic version of trypsin.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_00: People know of trypsin because right, it digests protein um in the small intestine.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um, again, they're trying to put that at large scale so that it can be used in cell cultures and to manufacture vaccines and insulin.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then they have a few more, including like a hepatitis B booster.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, if you go and look in the literature and you're trying to find, like, give me a website that lists all of these pharmaceutical crops.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_00: Very difficult to do.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_00: You have some that are broken links now.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you do have um a website, a web page that's on the USDA's website, and I'll provide a link to that in the show description.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_00: But if you click on that website, it it has a list of permits, right?
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_00: These are permits, quote, for pharma um pharmaceutical, industrial, value-added proteins for human consumption um or um phyto uh remediation.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_00: So these are the permits that if somebody wanted to basically plant a pharmaceutical crop, they would need to get this permit.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_00: But if you look at that website, while it has the list, it has a list of crops and it will tell you the state in which this was approved or just or withdrawn or not approved.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_00: When you click on the individual PDF documents that would let you see the permit.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_00: So basically let you see the information about what kind of crop this is, what is it genetically engineered to do, almost all of the links are broken.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_02: And and and more importantly, where is it?
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, where's it located?
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_02: Where where is that where is that field?
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_00: And you can't find that.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_00: You can see the state of the application, like if it's in California or Kansas, for instance, but you can't see any of the of the other any of the other information.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_00: And again, as I said, most of those links are broken.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so you can't see it.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_00: Now, that stat that I got that I cited earlier in this study, where they said thousands of field trials have been performed with genetically engineered corn plants under USDA authority, that came from one of the handful of documents that wasn't broken.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_00: That the link wasn't broken to it.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_00: All the rest of them are broken.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_00: So I did actually send a request.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um I email the USDA asking for access to all of those permits, you know, telling them these links are broken, that basically the public has a right to know this information.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_00: And so we want access to it.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_00: If we can't get access to it, then I'll file a FOIA, a Freedom of Information Act, so that we can know this and warn everybody because we don't want our crops contaminated.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_00: Like I said, these have already had wind-blown drift contamination.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't want this for anybody, for any of our mass-produced crops, even on the organic scale, or our home gardens, right?
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_00: So we have a right to know.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_00: And we're gonna we're gonna get to the bottom of this.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um, okay.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_00: In addition to that company, the Applied Biotechnology Institute, there are other pharmaceutical crops being grown in the US and abroad.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_00: And I won't go into detail, I'll just list um some of the highlight names.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_00: So Uzbekistan is trying to create a tomato to grow the COVID vaccine.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_00: We also have Canada is also trying to draw to grow the lettuce COVID vaccine.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_00: We have edible COVID vaccines being grown for wild animals, farmed animals, including farmed fish, and companion animals.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_00: We have the malaria vaccine that they're trying to grow in crops.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_00: We have a tomato colorectal cancer vaccine, the Korean scientists are trying to grow.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_00: And we also have a tomato that they're trying to engineer to produce a Parkinson's drug to produce L-DOPA.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_00: They're also trying to get a lettuce to be engineered to express um IgF-1, which is insulin-like broke factor one.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_00: And that's supposed to help treat muscle disorders and heal bone fractures.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then there's some others, you know, like ACE2 proteins and so forth.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_00: So we'll have the um a link to the entire list in the show description, but I want to move on to the important question that I wanted to ask you and to discuss.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_00: Now that we all are up to speed in terms of what are pharmaceutical crops, how do they come about, and how extensive this is, and that we already know there's been contamination and we do not know the extent of it.
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_00: What do we think should be happening legally?
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_00: You know, coming back to Maureen's question, um, do we want these laws passed?
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_00: Are these laws going to do anything?
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_00: And what do we think as libertarians, you know, and and constitutionalists, right?
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_00: So if you want, um I would like to start by reading a couple comments that we got from listeners.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we have our new community forum, and I post a related question to that forum.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_00: I asked the question: Should it be legal to sell genetically modified seeds to gardeners?
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_00: Which you can expand this, right?
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_00: To should we be having these genetically modified um open open air field trials?
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_00: It's a similar concept.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_00: So here's what a couple of our listeners said.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_00: We have Ethan Johnson, who said, um, even in what most would call an ideal libertarian society, there would still be laws.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_00: So I don't like the take that they should be legal for the sake of liberty.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_00: Just because we can't doesn't mean we should.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_00: Libertarianism, in my opinion, is not a valid form of governance as we live in a world of sin, and because we all exist in a relationship since the day we are conceived.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_00: Every decision we make affects someone else in some way.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_00: I say all that to say that GMOs that can pollinate other plants should be illegal in all forms.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_00: And then we have somebody under the name of Cyborg Bear, which I love.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um, cyborg Bear says education is a more liberty-friendly solution.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_00: If people understood and cared about what GMOs are and how corporations use them to manipulate the agricultural and health sectors, they would not buy into them, which would hit these corporations financially.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_00: At that point, corporations would adjust, but if not, smaller businesses will profit by making better decisions.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_00: So, and then Paul, um Paul Wartenberger says, legal, yes, as I despise most every law that is created, especially in the name of quote safety.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_00: But now let's make them liable if their GMO plant cross-pollinates with our non-GMO plant.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_00: And there has to be a large warning label clearly stating that the plantslash seeds are GMOs.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of great comments from our listeners.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_00: Joel, I have a lot to say about here, but I want you to chime in first.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, well, well, that uh that last comment is is anybody that had known that has read any of my stuff knows that that's kind of where I am.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_02: That um that you know when you when you simply begin outlawing stuff because you don't like it or don't want it to be around, that's a really slippery slope toward toward tyranny.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_02: Uh because we it a a society is can easily jump into a fad situation where um where something you thought was fine suddenly becomes kind of universally thought to be not good.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_02: And I mean, I mean, uh, you know, prohibition is a good example.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, we had a we had a fad of of uh of temperance, women's temperance union, and um and swept the country and we outlawed alcohol, um, which by the way stopped the alcohol button on a Model T Ford and and got rid of the um the the alternative fuel and made everybody get gas, and that's why um that's why um the the Rockefellers um paid a lot for the women's temperance union.
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_02: Um because they they were in the gas business and wanted to get that infernal alcohol button off the dashboard of the Model T that would that would drive on both alcohol and gasoline.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_02: Um so so yeah, I I I think I'm not interested in outlawing it.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_02: Um you know, as much as I'd like to think education makes it better, uh, you know, our education system is in a is in a shambles.
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_02: And um goodness, look what our education system's cranking out.
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_02: So uh it doesn't help that I'm just fresh off of the Florida Parent Educators Association um annual meeting in Florida last week.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_02: It's the large it's the largest homeschooling convention in the in the world.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_02: And um yeah, it's it's it's pretty it's pretty amazing.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_02: And and so so the the the question is well what's the you know what what's the defense here?
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_02: And so number one, and I would say, number one, there should be no government funding for any research whatsoever.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_02: Zero.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_02: The the the the libertarian position is no government uh uh payments for any research whatsoever.
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_02: None.
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_02: Zero.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_02: Everybody hear me?
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_02: None.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_02: You know, that way whatever research is done, whatever investment is done is private investment, private research, which which inevitably um both slows it down and makes it and makes it genuine.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_02: It doesn't, it doesn't um uh pick winners and losers, you know, within that within that research phase.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_02: And then, yes, the liability.
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_02: So if if you're if if contamination happens on my crops, you're liable for trespass, for tr trespass infringement.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_02: And um that's the that's the thing that we have lost in our country is and we said and we we saw this over and over with um with GMOs.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_02: You know, um, and I wrote about this in uh folks, this ain't normal.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, normally if if uh your property, if your animal or something gets out and comes to my place and tromps my rosebushes, I can go to the just to the magistrate, swear out a warrant for trespass, and you're responsible for your bull trampling my rosebushes.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_02: But the way the courts have interpreted GMOs, if your bull comes and tramples my arm my rosebushes, not only are you not liable, but I have to pay you, pay you for the privilege of your bull trampling my rosebushes.
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_02: And so what we have here is a complete breakdown in um in jurisprudence, in in understanding uh you know trespass law.
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_02: And I think one of the reasons is because the environment, the generally, the I'll be broad here, generally the environmental movement, which has been a fairly liberal movement, um, has been very weak on property rights.
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_02: They uh that that kind of general theme uh has been all about the commons, we're all you know, we're all relative.
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_02: And and I listen, I get all that, but it's been very weak on this is my stuff, not your stuff.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_02: And uh and when you have weakness in that realm, then you don't have much protection on me protecting, you know, me protecting my backpack.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_02: If nobody should be able to have a backpack, then um, then you don't have much protection on the backpack that I happen to have.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_02: And uh and unfortunately, that's kind of the that's kind of the way much of the culture has moved in our you know, in our move towards socialism and and and and um fascism, is that private property has gradually been undermined by the courts and by the culture and by the media to uh to a place of almost um you know non you know non-importance anymore.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_02: And um and so that that's that's our problem.
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_02: Our problem is uh is property rights and my stuff and your violation of my stuff.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so I love all that.
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_00: Let's break this down into little steps.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_00: So the first thing you said was there should be no taxpayer um funding for any of this research, right?
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_00: Any of these pharma crops.
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I agree with you on that.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_00: And so let's tie this into what Massey's doing.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_00: Because the question is then, okay, we agree that we shouldn't have any funding, taxpayer funding for this.
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_00: How do you actually implement that?
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_00: So, Massey, uh, this gets back to his law where um Massey said that he had that amendment, uh number 115, where he wanted to stop, make it so that you had to stop any kind of funding of this.
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_00: His amendment passed unanimously, but that prohibition was left out of the omnibus spending bill.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_00: So taxpayer dollars are still funding it.
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_00: So so here's my thought.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_00: I have a couple of thoughts here.
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_00: So even if, and this is where I'm like, what do we actually do?
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_00: Because as you know, I'm a libertarian constitutionalist, I don't want any more laws on the books than is absolutely essential, you know.
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_00: So even if Massey's amendment was passed and it was added to the spending bill, okay, that could get changed the next fiscal year when the vote came up again.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_00: So this is not like a permanent solution.
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_00: It could just, it could just be changed again with the next vote.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and it doesn't actually technically forbid the practice of these transgenic crops, right?
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_00: It's just saying that the government can't fund it directly.
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_00: So that means like foreign countries or like you said, independent research organizations or groups, they could still fund it.
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_00: Or you know how these things work.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_00: When you get you can actually move monies around, right?
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_00: It just can't be said it's directly funded from like the FDA, USDA, and such.
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_00: So there's there's again, there's all these loopholes um, you know, and weaknesses, even in even in Massey's bill, right?
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_00: The good thing is though, Massey's bill has brought this um to people's attention, right?
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_00: It's put it on people's radar, including ours.
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_00: So he's done such a good thing for us in general.
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_00: So so if that's the case, so that's on the federal level.
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so hit his amendment was based on the federal level.
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um, now let's go to um the Tennessee level.
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um, because I want to I want to bring these two things together and then get your input on it.
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_00: So one of the things that this, and this is where I kind of differ from the comment made from the Organic Consumer Association um there from their article, it starts out by saying, even though Congress made adding drugs to food illegal, so they're saying Congress made adding drugs to food illegal, meaning, you know, it shouldn't be even funding research where it's putting drugs in food or any of that.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I'm not sure.
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_00: I wanted to get your opinion, Joel, because when I look at the FDA's website under the regulations, uh, there's a notice called Food and Drug Administration Amendment Act of 2007, prohibition prohibition against food to which drugs or biological products have been added.
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_00: So, biological products, you know, those would be like vaccines.
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_00: Those are biologics.
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_00: This is what it says in the summary.
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_00: It says the FDA, um, you know, it's doing this section 912 of this this new regulation and establishes that the FDA Cosmetics Act prohibits the interstate shipment of certain foods to which an improved drug or licensed biological product has been added.
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_00: It also prohibits the interstate shipment of foods containing an added drug or biological product that has been subject to a clinical investigation.
• 37:33
  SPEAKER_00: So if you read down through this whole thing, that's what it's talking about, is it says the introduction or delivery for introduction into interstate commerce of any food to which has been added a drug approved under section 505, a biological product licensed under section 351, um, or a drug or biological product for which a clinical investigation has been instituted.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_00: So this is this is where we get into this nuance of the constitution, right?
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_00: Of where does this actually fit?
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_00: And um I wrote about this in my first book, Hands Off My Food.
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_00: I interviewed this amazing uh constitutional attorney, uh Michael Ferris.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_00: He's he was the founder of the Patrick Henry College in Virginia.
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_00: So he's the one that taught me about how he says the commerce clause, so that's Article 1, Section 8 in the Constitution.
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_00: It limits the authority of the federal government by reserving the regulatory power power over the food supply to the states and the people.
• 38:35
  SPEAKER_00: It says the federal government has authority to regulate international imports and the shipment of goods across state lines.
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_00: So that's the inner interstate um shipment.
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's between states, is what he's saying, right?
• 38:55
  SPEAKER_00: So am I interpreting this incorrectly, Joel?
• 38:59
  SPEAKER_02: This FDA uh well, this uh Cena, I hate I I I hate to bring the bearer of bad news, but our country left the constitution a long time ago.
• 39:09
  SPEAKER_02: And and I and I and you know, and and uh and and and and also I think I'm wondering if when you say the shipment of foods containing added biologicals, um, would they even say that this is food, this is food with added biologicals?
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_02: I I I I think you get in a courtroom and uh and and attorneys would actually argue this is not added biologicals to food.
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_02: It was already in the food when it was harvested.
• 39:42
  SPEAKER_02: And and they they would they would parse this out as not being within the definition of this of this prohibition you just read.
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm so glad you brought that up because that's my second point, okay, is that they will always find loopholes, right?
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_00: In every single law, they will always find loopholes, like even in the Tennessee law.
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_00: I found the summary of the bill from their financial review committee, and they're defining what um what a because you know their their bill basically said that a food containing a vaccine or vaccine material is a drug, and so it has to be labeled.
• 40:19
  SPEAKER_00: And then they went on to define what a vaccine or vaccine material is.
• 40:23
  SPEAKER_00: So they so as soon as you define it, the companies can just come up with loopholes, right?
• 40:29
  SPEAKER_00: They just change the name, they just change the application of what that substance is actually doing.
• 40:34
  SPEAKER_00: So there's always going to be loopholes.
• 40:35
  SPEAKER_00: So I agree with Maureen.
• 40:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, this is we're gonna have loopholes.
• 40:39
  SPEAKER_00: This could backfire on them, but um, but but like it's like, what do you actually do about this?
• 40:45
  SPEAKER_00: And one of the things I wanted to say was um, so I don't agree with the OCA's interpretation because I don't think that Congress actually did make it illegal.
• 40:54
  SPEAKER_00: I think they made it um, I think they made it illegal for interstate commerce.
• 41:00
  SPEAKER_00: And and and I can't believe I'm gonna say this, Joel.
• 41:04
  SPEAKER_00: But if this, if I'm interpreting this FDA um document correctly, that is prohibited just for interstate commerce and not like within the state, then the FDA finally got something right, right?
• 41:17
  SPEAKER_00: Because they're finally working within the constitution according to this document.
• 41:22
  SPEAKER_00: So kudos to the FDA.
• 41:25
  SPEAKER_00: Now, again, you can change the definition, but at least they finally did it right.
• 41:31
  SPEAKER_00: They finally acknowledged their authority is just for between the states, right?
• 41:36
  SPEAKER_00: Uh it's just for exchange of goods between states and not within the state.
• 41:41
  SPEAKER_00: So if somebody like the Tennessee uh lawmakers, if they're aware of this and they're reading this, then you're gonna be like, okay, this is set up the way the Constitution is actually set up, where they only the FDA can, federal FDA can only regulate what happens between the states.
• 41:59
  SPEAKER_00: So that means within the state, the authority falls back to the state and the people.
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_00: So Tennessee then has taken the initiative to start putting laws on their books to protect their state, right?
• 42:11
  SPEAKER_00: To protect their citizens.
• 42:12
  SPEAKER_00: And that's actually how the constitution is set up.
• 42:15
  SPEAKER_00: So while I while I don't want more laws on the books, I also think Tennessee did something really strategic here.
• 42:23
  SPEAKER_00: Because if this is true, if the interpretation is true and the FDA holds to this, then that's the recourse for states, is to now, right?
• 42:32
  SPEAKER_00: And then you vote with your feet based on what those states are doing.
• 42:36
  SPEAKER_00: Now, just to throw in a little bit of a uh a curveball here, I went on the FDA's website to ask, what is the definition of interstate commerce?
• 42:48
  SPEAKER_00: Right, right, because this is what happens.
• 42:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we got the federal FDA by a distorted interpretation of interstate commerce, and that happened with the birth of the FDA in the early 1900s.
• 43:01
  SPEAKER_00: So this is what the this is what the FDA says.
• 43:04
  SPEAKER_00: The technical definition of interstate commerce is commerce between any state, right?
• 43:12
  SPEAKER_00: So they're agreeing with me.
• 43:13
  SPEAKER_00: The technical definition is commerce between any state.
• 43:16
  SPEAKER_00: Then this is what it says.
• 43:18
  SPEAKER_00: If a product crosses state lines between the start of the manufacturing process and when it is received by the individual who purchased it, then it has entered interstate commerce.
• 43:31
  SPEAKER_00: If the product is composed of ingredients from out of state, then it is considered to be part of interstate commerce, even if the product was created and consumed within that state.
• 43:42
  SPEAKER_00: So if you source from any products out of state, you see how they twist it?
• 43:46
  SPEAKER_00: They're twisting the definition of these caveats.
• 43:49
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so if you're making, if you're making a stew and you use salt from Utah and you live in New Jersey, uh, then that's in that by the FDA's definition, that's interstate cost.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_02: Commerce.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 44:01
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I buy my my food from you.
• 44:03
  SPEAKER_00: My I buy my meat from you.
• 44:05
  SPEAKER_00: I get it shipped to my house.
• 44:06
  SPEAKER_00: You're in Virginia.
• 44:06
  SPEAKER_00: I'm in Georgia.
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_00: So that means if I sold that, if I made something here and I sold that product in Georgia, that underwent interstate commerce because I got the meat from you.
• 44:17
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's right.
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_02: That's right.
• 44:19
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 44:20
  SPEAKER_02: So this is a or spice spices from any place else.
• 44:25
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, anything that you would use that's not, yeah.
• 44:27
  SPEAKER_02: So that's a that's a pretty broad uh that's a pretty broad interpretation, obviously.
• 44:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 44:34
  SPEAKER_00: So, but this goes to both your and my point that anytime you have any law, they will just change definitions.
• 44:41
  SPEAKER_00: That you can't encompass everything in your definition.
• 44:44
  SPEAKER_00: Tennessee did what sounds like on paper, a good job of defining vaccines and vaccine material, right?
• 44:52
  SPEAKER_00: But even you and I look at this and we're like, at face value, we see there's already loopholes.
• 44:57
  SPEAKER_00: There's already ways that people can get around it.
• 45:00
  SPEAKER_00: So the the issue becomes they don't label it, right?
• 45:05
  SPEAKER_00: Just like with GMOs.
• 45:06
  SPEAKER_00: If you have a GMO tomato, it's still called a tomato at the grocery store.
• 45:11
  unknown: Right.
• 45:11
  SPEAKER_00: So we need some kind of labeling, right?
• 45:13
  SPEAKER_00: You would think, so that we can then speak with our dollars in the marketplace, right?
• 45:18
  SPEAKER_00: And that's what Tennessee was trying to do.
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_00: They didn't actually ban it, they were trying to get it labeled as a drug.
• 45:24
  SPEAKER_00: But so that's the question is now you need some kind of label.
• 45:27
  SPEAKER_00: And then then we're back to, well, I guess you got to trust the label, then, right?
• 45:32
  SPEAKER_00: And all those labeling loopholes.
• 45:34
  SPEAKER_00: So I don't know.
• 45:35
  SPEAKER_00: My big thing is, you know, I'm a libertarian, I'm also a constitutionalist.
• 45:39
  SPEAKER_00: I think that there's just overreach here.
• 45:42
  SPEAKER_00: I don't want new laws passed.
• 45:44
  SPEAKER_00: I think people should know what they're eating though.
• 45:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I want in this situation, I want the I want a free market solution.
• 45:53
  SPEAKER_00: So in our final few minutes here, I know we've gone over.
• 45:56
  SPEAKER_00: I wonder if you can get a uh if you can expand on that, like we can close out with that.
• 46:01
  SPEAKER_00: I want states to take charge, right?
• 46:04
  SPEAKER_00: I want them to take take to utilize their constitutional authority here and to take charge.
• 46:10
  SPEAKER_00: Just like I mean, the Tennessee law is not great, right?
• 46:14
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's not perfect, it's gonna have loopholes like all laws, but like Massey's amendment, it is bringing this to our attention, right?
• 46:24
  SPEAKER_00: You and I are spending two podcast episodes now talking about this because we didn't know about this.
• 46:30
  SPEAKER_00: So it's bringing it to our attention so it's doing a good thing.
• 46:33
  SPEAKER_00: I would like to be able to find growers and support those growers that are aligned with my principles, right?
• 46:41
  SPEAKER_00: That's always my fallback.
• 46:42
  SPEAKER_00: Move the market by supporting growers financially.
• 46:47
  SPEAKER_00: We could demand that grocery stores don't buy these products, right?
• 46:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um, just like what happened with appeal.
• 46:54
  SPEAKER_00: Grocery stores, some of them stood up and said, we're not gonna sell any of the produce that has the appeal coding on it.
• 47:01
  SPEAKER_00: And then other grocery stores like Whole Foods stood up and said, Oh, here, we actually have it and we think it's a good thing.
• 47:07
  SPEAKER_00: And then you get to speak with your dollars, right?
• 47:09
  SPEAKER_00: So that would be fantastic if we can um if we can bring this awareness to grocery stores and um and get it so that they don't even get in the store in the first place.
• 47:22
  SPEAKER_00: Because the tipping point is small, right?
• 47:24
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's like 10% or something like that, right, Joel, to to actually get something off the market.
• 47:29
  SPEAKER_01: But that's right.
• 47:30
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna let you close us out with your final thoughts of where do we go from here, Joel?
• 47:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, well, you know, these are the the problem is that the the ship has left the port.
• 47:41
  SPEAKER_02: And and um, you know, as much as we'd like to think that we could turn that ship around, uh you know, any more any more than uh than GMOs, uh, it ain't gonna happen.
• 47:57
  SPEAKER_02: And so the real solution is is a A, there's no there's no perfect side, this tide of this side of eternity, but but B, the best you do then is you you seek out uh sources that are the least can the least contaminated possible, people who who don't participate in this kind of thing.
• 48:21
  SPEAKER_02: And and you know what?
• 48:22
  SPEAKER_02: I hate to say it, that takes effort.
• 48:24
  SPEAKER_02: We we can't just sit on the sofa and watch football and Netflix and and have all this happen.
• 48:30
  SPEAKER_02: We we have to engage.
• 48:33
  SPEAKER_02: We have to engage with our food system, we have to engage with what's going on.
• 48:39
  SPEAKER_02: And obviously, if you're listening to this podcast, you have made that decision to engage.
• 48:44
  SPEAKER_02: We thank you, but that's you know, uh that that's just that that's just the kind of the start point.
• 48:52
  SPEAKER_02: Be awareness is the beginning, and then you take that awareness and you move forward with more education, with networking, with finding your tribe, with with defunding the opposition, uh, and funding, you know, funding the people that you that you can trust and share your values.
• 49:11
  SPEAKER_02: And uh that's that's the ultimate, that's the ultimate approach.
• 49:15
  SPEAKER_02: And and I would just say you don't you don't fear, don't be intimidated by the fact that um that you're telling your friends, family, acquaintances, worker, uh, fellow employees, uh telling things that they don't know about and don't even know they don't even know they need to know about them.
• 49:41
  SPEAKER_02: Uh go ahead.
• 49:42
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, go ahead and and evangelize anyway and um and and stand up here for a different, you know, for a different approach.
• 49:51
  SPEAKER_02: And um and you know, it wouldn't it be nice to wave a magic wand and have all the all the bad things go away, uh, but that only happens in Peter Pan and Tinkerbell.
• 50:03
  SPEAKER_02: You know, it doesn't happen in the real world.
• 50:05
  SPEAKER_02: And so we have to live in the real world and we live in it where we are.
• 50:09
  SPEAKER_02: Let me just say that I I think Cena, correct me if I'm wrong, but I I would suggest that that this kind of thing is in in the mo in the broadest sense is another toxin.
• 50:27
  SPEAKER_02: It's another toxin in our culture.
• 50:31
  SPEAKER_02: And the two days of truth summit that's coming up very shortly, uh, is gonna be all about how do you handle toxins.
• 50:43
  SPEAKER_02: And I would suggest that that this pharmaceutical food is going to be yet another one of those kind of toxin threads that we're gonna have to watch out for.
• 50:55
  SPEAKER_02: And um, so I encourage everybody to come to the Two Days of Truth Summit and uh learn how to detoxify.
• 51:03
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 51:04
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so this week's community discussion question is Is there any research that the government should fund, like that our tax dollars should fund?
• 51:14
  SPEAKER_00: And if so, what is that research?
• 51:18
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, if you're watching the video, leave a comment below.
• 51:21
  SPEAKER_00: If you're listening to the episode, click on the link below that's titled Watch and Discuss.
• 51:26
  SPEAKER_00: We'd love to hear your comments, and we look forward to hearing what you're gonna have to say.
• 51:30
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, everybody.
• 51:31
  SPEAKER_02: Thanks for being with us on another episode of Beyond Labels.
• 51:35
  SPEAKER_02: We hope you have a great week, and we'll look forward to seeing you again next week.