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Why Being the Good Girl Is Destroying Your Happiness | Cari Fund & Marci Hopkins · Wake Up with Marci

0:00
Speaker 1: Have you ever felt like you've spent your entire life
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Speaker 1: trying to make everyone else happy? Being the good daughter,
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Speaker 1: the good wife, the perfect mom, the woman who holds
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Speaker 1: everything together, never complains and always puts everyone else first.
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Speaker 1: But what happens when being everything to everyone means losing yourself?
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Speaker 1: What happens when you finally stop trying to earn love
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Speaker 1: and start believing you're already worthy of it? Today, we're
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Speaker 1: talking about the good girl trap. family wounds, shame, boundaries,
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Speaker 1: and what it really takes to stop living for everyone
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Speaker 1: else and start living for yourself. And this is a
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Speaker 1: conversation I think every woman needs to hear. My guest
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Speaker 1: today is Keri Fund, an author, essayist, and host of
0:45
Speaker 1: the Surviving Roots podcast. Keri has built a community of
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Speaker 1: more than 123,000 readers and listeners across by speaking openly
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Speaker 1: about the things so many of us have spent our
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Speaker 1: lives keeping quiet. After ending her relationship with her mother
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Speaker 1: 18 years ago, Carrie began the difficult journey of discovering
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Speaker 1: who she was outside of the expectations she had spent
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Speaker 1: her life trying to meet. Her new book, Autopsy of
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Speaker 1: a Good Girl, Shameless Essays on Cutting Ties, Keeping Receipts,
1:18
Speaker 1: and Rebuilding a Life on Your Own Terms comes out
1:22
Speaker 1: October 20th. So we are right around that date and
1:25
Speaker 1: how exciting that is. Her work explores family dynamics, shame, motherhood, resilience,
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Speaker 1: and the courage it takes to reclaim your identity. This
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Speaker 1: is Wake Up With Marci, a space for honest conversations
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Speaker 1: about healing, recovery, and women's wellness. I'm Marci Hopkins. Take
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Speaker 1: a breath. You're safe here. Let's begin. Hello, all. Welcome
1:51
Speaker 1: to Wake Up With Marci. I'm your host, Marci Hopkins.
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Speaker 1: I'm an author, speaker, mental health advocate, and a woman
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Speaker 1: in long-term recovery. And I know firsthand what it feels
2:01
Speaker 1: like to feel lost, ashamed, and unsure of how to
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Speaker 1: move forward. I've been honored to be recognized as a
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Speaker 1: top five healer by USA Today. And Wake Up With
2:14
Speaker 1: Marci has received two Telly Awards for our work in
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Speaker 1: mental health. and talk shows. But what really matters to
2:22
Speaker 1: me is using this platform to remind you that no
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Speaker 1: matter what you've been through, your past does not have
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Speaker 1: to define your future. Here we have honest conversations about
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Speaker 1: mental health, recovery, women's health, healing, and self-discovery. Because I
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Speaker 1: believe when we share our stories, we break down shame,
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Speaker 1: create connection, and give others the courage to change their lives.
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Speaker 1: And sometimes one conversation can be the wake-up call we've
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Speaker 1: been waiting for. Keri, welcome to Wake Up With Marci.
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Speaker 2: Thank you so much, Marci, for having me. It's truly
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Speaker 2: an honor.
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Speaker 1: It's an honor to have you here. And I love
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Speaker 1: what we're going to talk about today because I really
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Speaker 1: felt when you were sharing your story before we got
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Speaker 1: on here. And because I too have had that wound
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Speaker 1: and try to be that good girl. So thank you
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Speaker 1: for being so open with your story because like right now,
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Speaker 1: a lot, the estrangement from our parents, like that's like
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Speaker 1: a big thing, right? Oprah brought that alive and everyone's
3:29
Speaker 1: been talking about it. And the more I see, there
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Speaker 1: are so many that have broken up with their parents
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Speaker 1: just to live a better life. Yes. Yeah. So- One
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Speaker 1: of the things that you said that really stayed with
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Speaker 1: me was good girls don't disappear overnight. They disappear one
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Speaker 1: small compromise at a time. And, oh, that was powerful.
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Speaker 1: So what exactly is the good girl identity and how
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Speaker 1: does a woman recognize when she's been living that way?
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Speaker 2: I mean, I think it takes a while to realize
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Speaker 2: what you're doing because it's a thousand compromises over your life.
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Speaker 2: Hopefully that you realize that you've become this good girl.
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Speaker 2: You weren't born this way. You were trained. I like
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Speaker 2: to say that we were trained to become these women. Um,
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Speaker 2: it's the girl that can read the room before she
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Speaker 2: ever learns how to read herself. Um, keeping secrets, keeping
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Speaker 2: the peace, protecting the people that were supposed to protect you.
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Speaker 2: Finally deciding that you're going to stop waiting for someone
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Speaker 2: to save you because I hate to say it, but
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Speaker 2: nobody's coming and you have to save yourself. And whether
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Speaker 2: that's through setting boundaries, communicating your pain, low contact, no contact,
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Speaker 2: there's no one size fits all to healing. I'm not
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Speaker 2: telling anyone. the 10 steps you have to follow. I'm
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Speaker 2: not telling anyone you have to go low contact, no contact.
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Speaker 2: Even though I am estranged from one parent, I've communicated
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Speaker 2: and healed and set boundaries with the other. And we
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Speaker 2: have the best relationship now. I'm all about empowerment, taking
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Speaker 2: your power back, the power that you never knew you
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Speaker 2: even had because nobody raised you to believe in that.
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Speaker 1: So true. So why do you think so many women
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Speaker 1: believe that their worth comes from making everyone else happy
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Speaker 1: or getting the validation from somebody else.
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Speaker 2: Because I think these women grew up with parents that
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Speaker 2: didn't teach them to love and to value themselves, to
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Speaker 2: know that they are unconditionally loved. So this whole thing
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Speaker 2: about estrangement or toxic parents is a trend. I hate
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Speaker 2: to break it to people that think that, but abusive parents,
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Speaker 2: toxic parents have always existed. Estrangement has always existed. Now,
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Speaker 2: maybe talking about it is new. Maybe people, because this
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Speaker 2: is a very shameful thing. When the people that give
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Speaker 2: you life are your first bullies, I mean, how can
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Speaker 2: you not take that personally? So I think that's why
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Speaker 2: there's so many good girls born is because this isn't
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Speaker 2: somebody that we met in college or our friend or
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Speaker 2: a partner that we met in school or on the
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Speaker 2: street or in the park or the playground. These are
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Speaker 2: our parents. These are the people who are supposed to
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Speaker 2: show us the world. And I think we see ourselves
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Speaker 2: in them. You know, our reflection isn't a good loving one.
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Speaker 2: We start to measure ourselves. We start to shape shift.
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Speaker 2: We start to fight for that unconditional love when it's
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Speaker 2: conditional the whole time. And I think that's, we, we
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Speaker 2: become trained to, to be these people.
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Speaker 1: Yeah. Be the people pleasers. But I also believe that
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Speaker 1: it is a generational thing, right? I mean, we just
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Speaker 1: continue to pass that along. So we're breaking that now. Yes.
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Speaker 1: And it's not okay. That's what we're saying. It is
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Speaker 1: not okay.
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Speaker 2: It is not okay.
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Speaker 1: Growing up, I too thought life and love was all conditional.
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Speaker 1: And I worked really hard to be loved, even though
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Speaker 1: I never really felt that way. And it wasn't until
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Speaker 1: like I used alcohol for most of my life to
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Speaker 1: numb the pain from abandonment, my alcoholic parents, from abuse.
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Speaker 1: And it wasn't until I got sober that I started
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Speaker 1: understanding how much of my identity had been shaped by
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Speaker 1: everyone else, right? And realizing that everything, that empowerment, that
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Speaker 1: all comes from inside of us, you know, and just
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Speaker 1: learning how to get to that.
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Speaker 2: Yes.
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Speaker 1: So you yourself, 18 years ago, made a huge decision to, well,
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Speaker 1: create the biggest boundary, and that was to walk away
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Speaker 1: from your mother. So can you take us back to
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Speaker 1: that moment and what made you finally realize that you
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Speaker 1: needed to do that, that you needed to make that change?
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Speaker 2: This is a great question because so many people think, oh, well,
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Speaker 2: you just cut your mother off or a strange parent
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Speaker 2: is like, I don't know what happened. I was 31
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Speaker 2: years old. I can remember the phone call. It was
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Speaker 2: winter in New York City. I was in my new
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Speaker 2: boyfriend's East Village apartment. And I knew not to answer
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Speaker 2: the phone, but I answered the phone because I knew
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Speaker 2: how the conversation always went with my mother. Everything was
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Speaker 2: about guilt. She was the victim of everything. And this
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Speaker 2: was at 31 years old. So I can remember 8
8:14
Speaker 2: years old, 10 years old, 12 years old, 14 years old, 16.
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Speaker 2: I remember my entire life, the same conversations about you know,
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Speaker 2: not having a space for my own feelings, not having
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Speaker 2: a moment to feel like I was living my own life.
8:27
Speaker 2: I was caught between two toxic parents who just went
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Speaker 2: through a bitter divorce my entire life. Everything was about
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Speaker 2: punishing each other. And we were just, my siblings and
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Speaker 2: I were just their audience. And I just remember begging
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Speaker 2: my mom for almost 10 years, like, can you just
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Speaker 2: call and ask me how I am? Or do I
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Speaker 2: need anything? Or can we just have a civil conversation
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Speaker 2: without talking about X, Y, Z? It was like that
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Speaker 2: Bill Murray movie for decades of my life. You wake
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Speaker 2: up and it's the same conversation. Different season, different outfit,
8:58
Speaker 2: but same conversation. And you start to think that you're
9:02
Speaker 2: the one that's going crazy. But I just remember being
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Speaker 2: on the phone and she started in on something again,
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Speaker 2: complaining about something and the poor me and this and that.
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Speaker 2: And I finally was like, I can't do this anymore.
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Speaker 2: This is This is never going to change. Like, I
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Speaker 2: feel like I'm suffocating in my own life. I'm drowning.
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Speaker 2: And you know, every, I think every kid wants to
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Speaker 2: hear those three words from their mom or dad. I
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Speaker 2: love you. And that day she said, go fuck yourself, Carrie.
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Speaker 2: I'm sorry if I'm not allowed to curse.
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Speaker 1: Sorry, but it was literally painful.
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Speaker 2: As much as you would think that would break me. I,
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Speaker 2: It cracks something in me, but it opens me up.
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Speaker 2: And for the first time, I finally realized no mother
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Speaker 2: would ever speak to their child like that. So this
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Speaker 2: isn't parent to child. She's like acting like this is
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Speaker 2: woman to woman, like she's fighting with a stranger. And
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Speaker 2: I just said, I can't do this. anymore because I'll
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Speaker 2: never be able to become happy or to heal in
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Speaker 2: this relationship. You just keep breaking me. And I said,
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Speaker 2: I love you. I wish you the best, but I
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Speaker 2: can't do this anymore. Please never contact me again. And
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Speaker 2: I hung up the phone and that was 18 years ago.
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Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. Well, did she try to reach out? Did
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Speaker 1: she try to mend the relationship?
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Speaker 2: Okay. So interesting enough, because I get a lot of
10:22
Speaker 2: people online with my social media. Well, how do you
10:24
Speaker 2: know she hasn't changed? Um, she never reached out. Um,
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Speaker 2: I can, she comes from a huge Italian family. I
10:30
Speaker 2: stayed close to, um, some of my aunts and even
10:34
Speaker 2: my grandmother until she passed away last year. So my
10:36
Speaker 2: mother never changed. I Unfortunately, my daughter, when she became
10:45
Speaker 2: old enough, a couple of years ago, around nine years old,
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Speaker 2: she started asking about my mom and I'll do anything
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Speaker 2: for my children, even though I knew she hadn't changed.
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Speaker 2: I just, I knew it, but I thought I'll put
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Speaker 2: myself out there because it's not really about me anymore.
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Speaker 2: It's about my child. And I thought to myself, she
11:00
Speaker 2: wouldn't reject a child thinking I'd convinced myself. Maybe I'm
11:04
Speaker 2: talking to a reasonable person. Um, I emailed her and
11:08
Speaker 2: she didn't respond for a year. And then on Thanksgiving,
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Speaker 2: she chose a holiday to text me because I've never
11:13
Speaker 2: changed my number, saying, acting like almost nothing had happened.
11:17
Speaker 2: She'd love to meet her grandchildren. She's been praying for us.
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Speaker 2: She loves us so much. So I took a deep
11:23
Speaker 2: breath and I know how to respond. I've grown up
11:26
Speaker 2: a lot since then. It was at that time 16
11:29
Speaker 2: or so years. I've healed a lot. And I'm a
11:32
Speaker 2: mother now, which changed everything. Um, so I played along
11:37
Speaker 2: with the conversation. I said, perhaps we could FaceTime. The
11:40
Speaker 2: kids would really like to FaceTime and maybe they could
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Speaker 2: meet you. We could take things slow. Uh, this is
11:44
Speaker 2: really about them. Um, and, and about three text messages
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Speaker 2: she started, I swear, Marcy, it was the exact same
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Speaker 2: conversation from 18 years ago. And the one I heard
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Speaker 2: my entire life, you don't know what you've done to me.
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Speaker 2: I almost had a nervous breakdown. Everything was about her, her, her, her.
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Speaker 2: And all I could think about, and I wasn't even
12:02
Speaker 2: thinking about me, is what am I going to tell
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Speaker 2: my kids? What am I going to tell my kids?
12:07
Speaker 2: That grandma is so just the victim of- Narcissistic.
12:12
Speaker 1: Yeah.
12:13
Speaker 2: I mean, I can't tell an eight-year-old that, but it
12:16
Speaker 2: broke my heart. Not that I felt rejected, but I
12:18
Speaker 2: was like, wow, even after all of this time, she
12:21
Speaker 2: couldn't even put a child first again. So, uh, I
12:25
Speaker 2: didn't give her the battle cause we know a lot
12:27
Speaker 2: of narcissists love to have an audience. I just said,
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Speaker 2: I think there's a lot of healing that still needs
12:32
Speaker 2: to happen. And I'm sorry, this couldn't work out that
12:34
Speaker 2: she deserved a life full of peace and happiness. And
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Speaker 2: I wish her well. And I finally blocked her number
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Speaker 2: because I just didn't, I was scared that I had
12:43
Speaker 2: opened up something where I would start getting the messages
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Speaker 2: and the, all of the things I'd lived through for
12:48
Speaker 2: the decades before I became estranged at 31. Yeah.
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Speaker 1: Well, and you probably didn't block it initially because there
12:54
Speaker 1: was that part of you that was hoping that she
12:57
Speaker 1: would reach out 100% and, and try to heal that relationship.
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Speaker 2: Yeah.
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Speaker 1: So did you have a lot of guilt after you,
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Speaker 1: you had that phone call and said, I can't not
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Speaker 1: the second one, but the first one, did you have
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Speaker 1: a lot of guilt?
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Speaker 2: Um, I think, you know, it's hard to go back
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Speaker 2: and remember because it was 18 years and I've built
13:16
Speaker 2: such a life on the other side of all this. Um,
13:19
Speaker 2: I didn't feel guilt at first. I think I was
13:23
Speaker 2: heartbroken because now I sort of like orphaned myself. My
13:27
Speaker 2: mother wasn't dead. She was alive. She was in contact
13:30
Speaker 2: with people I was in so contact with. I had
13:31
Speaker 2: a younger brother that is not estranged from her and
13:35
Speaker 2: still had this relationship, very toxic and unhealthy. But I think,
13:39
Speaker 2: I hate to say this, but it's true. At first
13:41
Speaker 2: for a The silence did not give me loneliness. It
13:46
Speaker 2: gave me something that I didn't know how to describe.
13:49
Speaker 2: And now looking back, it was peace. It was just
13:52
Speaker 2: the ability to be able to hear myself and to
13:56
Speaker 2: experience an emotion without feeling guilty or being used against me.
14:00
Speaker 2: Like it was peace. It was peace.
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Speaker 1: That gave you the opportunity to learn who you were. Yes. Yes. Right.
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Speaker 1: So what did that process look like?
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Speaker 2: It was a very ugly process at first. There's nothing
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Speaker 2: pretty about any of this. And it did not come
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Speaker 2: in a little box with a pretty little bow on
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Speaker 2: it saying, here, Carrie, this is your gift. It was ugly.
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Speaker 2: It was gut-wrenching. At 31, I became estranged, but I
14:30
Speaker 2: started realizing my numbing... I know you talk a lot
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Speaker 2: about your own journey and alcohol and numbing.
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Speaker 1: My numbing....
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Speaker 2: Started when I was a young child, maybe 12 or
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Speaker 2: 13 with body dysmorphism and just trying to become perfect
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Speaker 2: and look perfect. I just wanted to be so loved.
14:49
Speaker 2: And as that continued on, then I got in, then
14:52
Speaker 2: I leaned into bulimia and I was bulimic probably for,
14:55
Speaker 2: I mean, I don't know, almost 20 years. And then,
15:00
Speaker 2: then alcohol, because then alcohol helped with the disordered eating
15:02
Speaker 2: because then I would starve myself, but then I would
15:05
Speaker 2: numb myself. So then I couldn't feel hungry. And Um,
15:08
Speaker 2: so with the bulimia distracting me and then alcohol came
15:11
Speaker 2: into the picture. Um, it was interesting with alcohol because
15:15
Speaker 2: it's that numbness, you sort of feel yourself separating and
15:19
Speaker 2: you can't feel, it's like the, the record player of
15:22
Speaker 2: all of the, the trauma and the pain and those
15:25
Speaker 2: previous conversations, it just sort of stopped. And I was
15:27
Speaker 2: able to be present, but you're not present because you're intoxicated.
15:31
Speaker 2: It's a very interesting separation.
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Speaker 1: Um, that's a good way to put it.
15:36
Speaker 2: It, It does.
15:37
Speaker 1: It gives you the ability not to feel. Yeah. So
15:40
Speaker 1: you just like, there's like the happiness, like a little bit,
15:43
Speaker 1: like I can get through this, like this is like
15:45
Speaker 1: motivating me to continue. But then for me, then towards
15:51
Speaker 1: the end, because I was drinking a lot, the resentment
15:55
Speaker 1: would just come out and I didn't know how to
15:56
Speaker 1: process any of those emotions in a positive way. Yeah. Yeah.
16:04
Speaker 2: And then And then it was shopping, like it all
16:06
Speaker 2: just sort of blending together. I didn't let go of one.
16:09
Speaker 2: It was like bulimia and then starving and then alcohol.
16:12
Speaker 2: And then I just started like shopping and trying to
16:14
Speaker 2: decorate myself because, you know, I wanted to be this
16:16
Speaker 2: perfect good girl. Perfectionism was like, you know, if I
16:19
Speaker 2: look good and if I dress well and I'm skinny
16:23
Speaker 2: and I'm successful and I'm working so hard, like everyone
16:27
Speaker 2: will be so distracted by all the shiny things. No
16:29
Speaker 2: one will say like, how are you? Or are you okay?
16:31
Speaker 1: Okay.
16:32
Speaker 2: I just was like... And I moved through my life
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Speaker 2: like that from a teenager all the way until pretty
16:39
Speaker 2: much to my estrangement. It's when that estrangement happened and
16:42
Speaker 2: I started to have silence and peace, I started realizing
16:45
Speaker 2: how much pain I was in and how this was
16:48
Speaker 2: so fake. I was this fake, perfect human being going
16:51
Speaker 2: through my life. And I just didn't want to live
16:54
Speaker 2: like that anymore. So I just started peeling back everything.
16:58
Speaker 2: I started... Um, the bulimia and all of those things
17:01
Speaker 2: just slowly stopped over time.
17:04
Speaker 1: I just.
17:05
Speaker 2: Did you have support?
17:06
Speaker 1: Did you have therapy? Was there any kind of community
17:09
Speaker 1: you were involved in?
17:10
Speaker 2: It's very interesting. I've only been to a therapist once
17:12
Speaker 2: and it's a constellation therapist. I never had therapy. Right
17:15
Speaker 2: around the time of my estrangement, I had met a man.
17:18
Speaker 2: It was the first probably not narcissistic, toxic person I'd
17:21
Speaker 2: ever dated because I was always trying to fix people.
17:23
Speaker 2: It was like, oh, if I can fix them, they
17:25
Speaker 2: love me. That means my parents were wrong.
17:27
Speaker 1: I did. Harry, I think you're the same person as
17:30
Speaker 1: me a lot.
17:31
Speaker 2: Let's just check them all off the box. I had
17:35
Speaker 2: met this man months prior to my estrangement and it
17:39
Speaker 2: was terrifying because the way he looked at me, it
17:41
Speaker 2: was almost like now looking back, like the way when
17:43
Speaker 2: you look at your mother and you're supposed to mirror back,
17:46
Speaker 2: it was almost like I saw the way this man
17:47
Speaker 2: looked at me and he just behaved in a way
17:51
Speaker 2: that he, that it seemed like I was so worthy
17:54
Speaker 2: of so many things of like love and peace and
17:57
Speaker 2: someone loving me and that I wasn't this cold monster,
18:00
Speaker 2: this unlovable person. My mother taught me that I was like,
18:03
Speaker 2: And I just got like a little glimpse of that feeling.
18:06
Speaker 2: And I thought, I don't want to be this person anymore.
18:09
Speaker 2: I want to find out who I am. I want
18:11
Speaker 2: to start ripping off all these labels that everyone has
18:13
Speaker 2: told me for decades. And I want to know who
18:16
Speaker 2: I am because when you're a good girl and you're
18:19
Speaker 2: people pleasing and you're shape-shifting, you know, with the estrangement,
18:24
Speaker 2: I was alone a lot. Like no one was calling me.
18:26
Speaker 2: My toxic mom wasn't calling me and making me relive
18:28
Speaker 2: in her past over and over again. It becomes very
18:30
Speaker 2: silent and you become, there's loneliness and you start to
18:33
Speaker 2: realize when no one's around, you don't know who you
18:36
Speaker 2: are because you're not trying to earn love with everyone.
18:40
Speaker 2: You're not performing. You're just alone and no one needs
18:43
Speaker 2: anything from you. And it's like, who the heck am I?
18:45
Speaker 2: And that's very scary at 31 years old. Like, I
18:48
Speaker 2: don't know who I am.
18:51
Speaker 1: God, I can relate in so many ways, just trying
18:54
Speaker 1: to be seen. And that unconditional love, there is a
18:58
Speaker 1: moment when I, said, I can't drink anymore, right? Because
19:02
Speaker 1: we're just filling our voids. That's what we're doing. And
19:06
Speaker 1: I always say, if somebody has addiction or has anything,
19:10
Speaker 1: that is a hurt person, right? There's something underneath that.
19:15
Speaker 1: And so when I decided to quit drinking and I
19:19
Speaker 1: finally sat down with my husband and fully meant it, like,
19:24
Speaker 1: I need help. he showed me unconditional love that I
19:28
Speaker 1: had been searching for my entire life. And like you're saying,
19:32
Speaker 1: it changed everything for me. And I was ready. I
19:38
Speaker 1: was ready to do whatever it took to find myself.
19:42
Speaker 1: And he loved me unconditionally. So that I, what you're saying, like,
19:48
Speaker 1: I felt like, like, okay, I am lovable. Yes. Yes.
19:52
Speaker 2: Absolutely. Beautiful.
19:54
Speaker 1: Um, a lot of work, a lot of work, you know,
19:58
Speaker 1: still working at it 11 years later, but, but wow,
20:01
Speaker 1: like life is pretty amazing when you start to find
20:04
Speaker 1: that person, but you also that That did follow, I
20:08
Speaker 1: know you said it was quiet and all, but this
20:11
Speaker 1: followed you into motherhood, which I understand, trying to be
20:14
Speaker 1: that perfect mom. You're probably trying to be the perfect mom,
20:18
Speaker 1: you know, not only to your kids, but in front of,
20:21
Speaker 1: at the face of everybody else, right? So what was
20:23
Speaker 1: that like for you?
20:25
Speaker 2: That was terrifying, honestly. You know, when I became pregnant,
20:30
Speaker 2: I was so excited. And then it hit me. It
20:32
Speaker 2: was like, I don't have a village. I don't have
20:35
Speaker 2: anyone showing me how to be a mom. And then
20:38
Speaker 2: years later, I laughed at the idea of that my
20:40
Speaker 2: mom trying to teach me how to be a mom
20:41
Speaker 2: because we're in this place in life because she didn't
20:46
Speaker 2: mother me the way that I deserve to be mothered.
20:48
Speaker 2: But it was terrifying. But I am a functioning, traumatized woman.
20:57
Speaker 2: I am successful. I can do anything. I went straight
21:00
Speaker 2: into that perfect mom syndrome. I put myself up on
21:03
Speaker 2: this pedestal. It was lonely as heck. And I did
21:07
Speaker 2: everything perfectly. I was going to be the mom that
21:10
Speaker 2: I never had. I was going to give my kids
21:12
Speaker 2: the childhood they deserved. And I parented the SHIT out
21:17
Speaker 2: of motherhood. It was exhausting and brutal and lonely, but
21:22
Speaker 2: I was fine. And I smiled and I dressed the part.
21:26
Speaker 2: And I, it wasn't until I'm 48 years old. It
21:30
Speaker 2: wasn't until a couple of years ago. I started writing
21:34
Speaker 2: this book because my friend planted this little seed in
21:36
Speaker 2: my mind. And as I started writing these essays, I
21:39
Speaker 2: was like, oh my gosh, I am just another, it's
21:44
Speaker 2: another costume. Not that I don't love my kids unconditionally
21:48
Speaker 2: and I'm so happy and proud and honored to be
21:50
Speaker 2: their mom, but I wasn't present in it. I wasn't
21:54
Speaker 2: experiencing all of the joy that I should have enjoyed.
21:56
Speaker 2: I was too busy checking off the to-do list and
21:58
Speaker 2: making sure everything looked perfect and the outfits and the
22:01
Speaker 2: holiday mornings. And I was just trying to be every pickup,
22:05
Speaker 2: every breakfast. I would not ask for help. I could
22:07
Speaker 2: do it all because that's what I should do. That's
22:10
Speaker 2: what I deserved. And it wasn't until a couple of
22:13
Speaker 2: years ago, I started writing. And then I also started
22:15
Speaker 2: having health problems. My labs were all messed up. I
22:18
Speaker 2: was not sleeping. I was having extreme anxiety. And then
22:22
Speaker 2: I had read something, and then I also saw a
22:24
Speaker 2: functional medicine doctor. They were like, you can keep telling
22:27
Speaker 2: everybody you're fine. You can change your vitamins. You can
22:29
Speaker 2: try a new gym. But it's all in there. It's
22:32
Speaker 2: all buried deep, like, in your bones, and there's no
22:35
Speaker 2: running away carry anymore. Like, you've got to stop telling
22:39
Speaker 2: people that you're fine, and you have to start really–
22:42
Speaker 2: you know, doing some serious work. So I've relaxed a
22:45
Speaker 2: lot these past couple of years within my motherhood. Like
22:49
Speaker 2: I still take it like my most important job in
22:51
Speaker 2: the world because it is, but I am not the perfectionist.
22:55
Speaker 2: I like to say I'm recovering a trophy mom and
22:57
Speaker 2: a recovering perfectionist. Me too. I don't want the trophy, right?
23:05
Speaker 1: Actually, I drank at feeling like my husband was trying
23:09
Speaker 1: to make me the trophy woman and wife. And I
23:12
Speaker 1: was like, I'm tired of this. But yeah, it's incredible
23:19
Speaker 1: to become present and peaceful and relationship I have with
23:24
Speaker 1: my children now is absolutely beautiful. And they come to
23:28
Speaker 1: me for everything and It's not about what everybody else
23:34
Speaker 1: is thinking. It's about really the relationship and the parenting
23:38
Speaker 1: and the mom I can be to my kids. I
23:40
Speaker 1: love that. Yeah.
23:41
Speaker 2: That's beautiful.
23:42
Speaker 1: It's really what's most important. And I didn't, you know,
23:44
Speaker 1: I too didn't get that. I was, I didn't want
23:47
Speaker 1: my kids ever feel what I felt, but in that
23:51
Speaker 1: I was still bringing my own sickness into parenting. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
23:57
Speaker 1: So it's just crazy. That's what we do. What do we,
24:00
Speaker 1: I mean, how else, how else are we supposed to parent? We,
24:04
Speaker 1: we don't know any other way. And it is that
24:08
Speaker 1: perfectionism and showing up and performing. I mean, that, that
24:12
Speaker 1: was our survival. And you talk about that, right? Like
24:16
Speaker 1: I could do anything. I lived in this survival mode.
24:19
Speaker 1: Like I didn't need anybody. I could do it all myself.
24:25
Speaker 1: And it's so interesting because so many things that you're saying,
24:28
Speaker 1: like are things like, I even help people with, it's
24:31
Speaker 1: called the care method, that communication, asking for help without guilt,
24:35
Speaker 1: reinforcing those boundaries and embracing your worth. Like we all
24:40
Speaker 1: need that.
24:41
Speaker 2: Yes.
24:41
Speaker 1: And we're not taught that. And, um, so I, I
24:46
Speaker 1: love that. So what about fear? Like, what was that
24:51
Speaker 1: fear for you? Were you operating in a place of
24:54
Speaker 1: fear instead of love?
24:56
Speaker 2: A hundred percent. Um, I confused fear with love. I
25:00
Speaker 2: think really my entire life, um, fear of failing, even
25:05
Speaker 2: though my, my, my parents never ended up showing up.
25:08
Speaker 2: I mean, my dad and I have a different relationship now,
25:10
Speaker 2: but the fear of rejection, because you've already been rejected
25:13
Speaker 2: by the people who give you life, who are supposed
25:15
Speaker 2: to love you the most. So just fearful of being
25:18
Speaker 2: rejected and not loved, whether it was, um, with a
25:22
Speaker 2: boyfriend or a boss or a girlfriend, um, fear of
25:28
Speaker 2: I think I was just scared of everything. I mean,
25:30
Speaker 2: it's the only place I really knew how to operate from.
25:34
Speaker 2: And after building up all of this armor to protect myself,
25:38
Speaker 2: how do you love? That requires vulnerability. That requires honesty.
25:43
Speaker 2: That requires putting yourself out there. And yeah, I think
25:48
Speaker 2: fear really ran my life a lot until, honestly... At 48,
25:55
Speaker 2: this book, as much as I want it to help
25:57
Speaker 2: other people, inspire them to heal, it really has fueled
26:00
Speaker 2: my own healing. And not by all the amazing people
26:02
Speaker 2: I've met in this community and their comments and their emails,
26:04
Speaker 2: but by saying it out loud. I had stuffed myself
26:08
Speaker 2: down with so much shame and the truth that it
26:10
Speaker 2: kept me so silent and so scared that that's why
26:13
Speaker 2: I was so alone. Not because of my parents, but
26:16
Speaker 2: because of the shame that I literally was so alone
26:21
Speaker 2: because I I was scared of being rejected. And as
26:24
Speaker 2: I started slowly turning up the volume on my voice
26:27
Speaker 2: and writing and saying things out loud, I realized these
26:30
Speaker 2: things over time, over the last four years, really, they
26:33
Speaker 2: stopped owning me. Like I'm sitting here with the amazing
26:37
Speaker 2: Marcy and it's like, what can you, what can anyone
26:40
Speaker 2: that's listening now or who would see me on social media,
26:43
Speaker 2: what can you say about me that I haven't already
26:44
Speaker 2: said out loud? What are the shameful, disgusting things that
26:47
Speaker 2: I've been so ashamed that have kept me so lonely
26:49
Speaker 2: and not getting close to people that I've said it
26:51
Speaker 2: all out loud. What can I say about myself or
26:53
Speaker 2: what can someone say about me that's going to make
26:55
Speaker 2: me curl up into a ball and want to binge
26:57
Speaker 2: and purge or want to reach for a drink or
26:59
Speaker 2: want to go out and try to shop and make
27:00
Speaker 2: myself feel loved by things that will never love me back?
27:03
Speaker 2: What can you say about me? I own it. I
27:06
Speaker 2: might not have been able to control what happened to me.
27:08
Speaker 2: I've been able to control how I've healed from it
27:12
Speaker 2: and what I've let go and what I've learned. And
27:15
Speaker 2: That has let me lean into love and let go
27:19
Speaker 2: of this fear. I mean, I'm scared of a lot
27:22
Speaker 2: of things as a mom, but when it comes to myself,
27:25
Speaker 2: I'm not scared. I'm not so scared. I'm not scared
27:28
Speaker 2: of rejection. I'm just not that terrified little girl anymore.
27:32
Speaker 2: I love that for you.
27:34
Speaker 1: Thank you. And that is like, ladies, you listening? You listening?
27:41
Speaker 1: Because that's really being vulnerable, being authentic. sharing, you say
27:46
Speaker 1: about sharing your story, right? Me too, sharing out loud.
27:51
Speaker 1: And it is so healing. I used to be so
27:54
Speaker 1: terrified of it, right? But writing, whether you're writing a
27:59
Speaker 1: book or just writing your stories down, you heal through that.
28:05
Speaker 1: I'd ask you this, when you wrote your book, Cause
28:09
Speaker 1: I remember my first book chaos to clarity and I
28:11
Speaker 1: wrote it and I wrote the stories and I, I just,
28:14
Speaker 1: I was so still attached to the pain of those stories.
28:19
Speaker 1: And as the edits were happening and all the things
28:22
Speaker 1: were happening, like by the end of it, it was like,
28:27
Speaker 1: those things happened to me. They don't own me anymore.
28:31
Speaker 1: I don't live in that anymore. Would you, would you
28:34
Speaker 1: say that you felt the same? It was so cathartic
28:37
Speaker 1: for you. Yes.
28:39
Speaker 2: I loved what you just said because so many people
28:42
Speaker 2: who still try to shame people like us that have
28:44
Speaker 2: healed and who talk about this, get over it. You're
28:49
Speaker 2: too old to be talking about this still. And I
28:51
Speaker 2: like to remind people, and you just said it, you
28:53
Speaker 2: can talk about something and not live there anymore. Something
28:56
Speaker 2: can happen to you and it doesn't define who you
28:58
Speaker 2: are today, but you can still talk about it. That's
29:01
Speaker 2: why people write books and host podcasts and go to
29:04
Speaker 2: community meetings and in groups to talk about their things,
29:08
Speaker 2: you can talk about addiction and not be addicted anymore.
29:11
Speaker 2: Like there's this whole shame that we just have to
29:13
Speaker 2: get over it and you don't talk about it anymore.
29:15
Speaker 2: But like you said, the writing, the talking about it,
29:18
Speaker 2: it is so healing. I mean, you write all of
29:22
Speaker 2: these things down and you look at them and you
29:24
Speaker 2: realize you're so much bigger than these words on a
29:32
Speaker 2: I'm so much more than this estrangement. That's something that
29:35
Speaker 2: happened to me. I'm so much more than these stories
29:38
Speaker 2: that I'm writing. But I remind myself, and the reason
29:41
Speaker 2: I think it's so important, like your books and everything
29:44
Speaker 2: that you do, is that some people are not on
29:47
Speaker 2: their millionth step like we might be. They're on their
29:49
Speaker 2: first step or they're on their 20th. And remember how
29:52
Speaker 2: lonely the first step? Oh, I don't even want to
29:54
Speaker 2: go back to the first step, but.
29:55
Speaker 1: Do you remember how- it's so interesting because I just
29:59
Speaker 1: wrote a book about the first 30 days of sobriety
30:02
Speaker 1: and helping people called wake up. You're not broken. And like,
30:08
Speaker 1: I've had to take myself back there.
30:09
Speaker 2: Yeah.
30:10
Speaker 1: And it's really wild because you do, you keep moving forward. Right. And,
30:16
Speaker 1: and it just becomes kind of a thing in the
30:18
Speaker 1: distant past that I dealt with and I did. But
30:21
Speaker 1: when you go back there, I mean, the shame, the guilt,
30:25
Speaker 1: the loneliness, that it's just, it's guttural. And you, you
30:31
Speaker 1: don't think you're ever going to get out of it,
30:35
Speaker 1: but it is those little micro steps every single day,
30:40
Speaker 1: just showing up for yourself is, and learning those tools, right. And,
30:46
Speaker 1: and putting them into action, putting life into action is
30:49
Speaker 1: the only way we're going to create change.
30:52
Speaker 2: Yes.
30:53
Speaker 1: So for you, let's talk to that woman out there.
30:57
Speaker 1: She's watching, she's listening, she's exhausted. What are some of
31:01
Speaker 1: the first small steps that she can take to start
31:05
Speaker 1: finding herself again?
31:06
Speaker 2: I love that question. You know, I would go back to,
31:11
Speaker 2: I'm trying to go back to my beginning. If you're
31:13
Speaker 2: in a toxic relationship, you know, try to create a
31:15
Speaker 2: little bit of space to set some boundaries so you can,
31:18
Speaker 2: and it's not to punish people. It's to honestly, the
31:22
Speaker 2: boundaries are trying to help people have, keep them in,
31:25
Speaker 2: have a relationship with you. The boundaries, a healthy person
31:27
Speaker 2: shouldn't be offended by boundaries. If you know what I'm saying?
31:30
Speaker 2: Like it's to help the relationship actually be maintained, but
31:33
Speaker 2: I would maybe take some space for yourself, set some
31:37
Speaker 2: boundaries and really think about who you want to be
31:40
Speaker 2: in your life. Do you want to be peaceful? Do
31:42
Speaker 2: you want to feel joy? What kind of woman do
31:45
Speaker 2: you want to be? And I would think about those things.
31:48
Speaker 2: I love, journaling. And I don't mean like a dear
31:51
Speaker 2: diary every morning, but during the beginning of my healing journey,
31:54
Speaker 2: I'd wake up every morning, I'd open a blank page
31:56
Speaker 2: and I'd write five things I'm grateful for. Sometimes they're
31:58
Speaker 2: the same thing. The first thing is always my family,
32:01
Speaker 2: our health, a good night's sleep, my dogs. And then
32:04
Speaker 2: maybe something I wanted to accomplish that day, the walk
32:07
Speaker 2: I'm about to take, a meeting, a friend for coffee,
32:10
Speaker 2: just five things. Start your brain off in the morning
32:12
Speaker 2: with five things you are just grateful for. And then
32:17
Speaker 2: I would ask yourself, you know, do you need help?
32:20
Speaker 2: And seek therapy or seek someone that is trustworthy that
32:25
Speaker 2: you can just talk to. You don't have to write
32:27
Speaker 2: a book. You don't have to go on social media
32:28
Speaker 2: and create content. Just talk to someone and say it
32:32
Speaker 2: out loud so you can be, you know, sometimes it's better.
32:36
Speaker 2: And I always say you have to validate yourself. But
32:38
Speaker 2: when you don't come from a place of feeling worthy–
32:41
Speaker 2: it's hard to validate yourself. You think you're crazy. You
32:43
Speaker 2: think things aren't that bad. You think maybe I'm being
32:46
Speaker 2: too hard on this person that keeps hurting me. I
32:49
Speaker 2: think talking to somebody, whether it's a therapist or a
32:53
Speaker 2: friend or a trusted person, and letting them validate you
32:57
Speaker 2: because they care about you and they love you, I
33:00
Speaker 2: think that's really important.
33:03
Speaker 1: I love that. And just... Being honest and those boundaries
33:09
Speaker 1: are so important. I didn't know how to create a
33:12
Speaker 1: boundary because I was always trying to give all of
33:14
Speaker 1: myself so people would love me. But like you said,
33:18
Speaker 1: a boundary is not being mean, right? It is about
33:22
Speaker 1: protecting yourself and it's the way you go about doing
33:27
Speaker 1: it and people will respect that. And it's when you
33:32
Speaker 1: get healthier, everything around you gets healthier, right? So speaking
33:37
Speaker 1: of that and the people around us, what do you
33:40
Speaker 1: think about the people around us and how important it
33:44
Speaker 1: is to have positive people around us? And one more note,
33:51
Speaker 1: what you just said was, what do you want in life?
33:55
Speaker 1: Is it peace, joy? It's more like, how do you
33:58
Speaker 1: want to live your life? Not about the accolades, not
34:01
Speaker 1: about the titles, right? Those are the things that we
34:05
Speaker 1: thought would bring us the happiness. But it's like when
34:09
Speaker 1: you start to say, this is how I want to
34:11
Speaker 1: live my life and start moving towards that. This is
34:14
Speaker 1: what I want to feel in my life, right? And
34:17
Speaker 1: the people we surround ourselves with have a lot to
34:21
Speaker 1: do with that. So share with us about, well, you've
34:23
Speaker 1: already spoken about your mom, but about others in our
34:27
Speaker 1: lives and how important it is to have those positive
34:30
Speaker 1: people in our lives.
34:32
Speaker 2: It's so important. I grew up in West Virginia and
34:34
Speaker 2: my grandma, Jo, always used to say, carry birds of
34:36
Speaker 2: a feather flock together. And I never got it at first,
34:39
Speaker 2: but now I truly understand. You want to surround yourself
34:43
Speaker 2: with people who support and love you and that they
34:48
Speaker 2: know that relationships are two-way streets. They're not just takers.
34:51
Speaker 2: So you slip back into those people-pleasing roles. You want
34:55
Speaker 2: to have honest people in your life. And I think
34:59
Speaker 2: at this point in my life, I've surrounded myself with
35:02
Speaker 2: a very small group of people. I don't need to
35:05
Speaker 2: have the quantity of a million people to feel loved.
35:08
Speaker 2: Just having a few people that you know that you
35:11
Speaker 2: can trust and lean on, I think is so important.
35:15
Speaker 2: I have found that because I never used to lean
35:17
Speaker 2: on people, I was terrified of rejection. And these past
35:19
Speaker 2: couple of years, just asking for help and learning to
35:22
Speaker 2: lean on people has just been so, I can't even
35:25
Speaker 2: explain it. It's really helped fuel my healing even, even more. Um,
35:31
Speaker 2: I think also as you go through your healing, not
35:34
Speaker 2: to be shocked or surprised if you continue to lose people. Um,
35:38
Speaker 2: even though I lost certain family members when I became
35:40
Speaker 2: estranged at 18, certain aunts, uncles, and cousins, they just
35:44
Speaker 2: chose sides, which it's sad that there's even sides to choose. But, um,
35:48
Speaker 2: A few years ago when I started writing and talking
35:50
Speaker 2: about this stuff online, telling my story, not talking about
35:53
Speaker 2: anybody else, I lost some of the most important people
35:56
Speaker 2: in my life. They just stopped calling. I noticed I
35:58
Speaker 2: wasn't on the group family chats anymore. Birthdays would pass.
36:03
Speaker 2: These were people that were like in my wedding and
36:05
Speaker 2: they had been my closest family members my whole life.
36:10
Speaker 2: I never imagined they're not being in my children's life
36:12
Speaker 2: or my life. So My world has definitely gotten a
36:14
Speaker 2: lot smaller even in these last couple of years. And
36:17
Speaker 2: was that heartbreaking? Absolutely. Do I miss some of them sometimes? Absolutely.
36:23
Speaker 2: If I could go back and undo some of this
36:25
Speaker 2: to have them in my life, absolutely not. Because I
36:30
Speaker 2: am me now. I know who I am. I am
36:33
Speaker 2: showing up in this world as a softer version of myself.
36:37
Speaker 2: Somebody asked me a couple of weeks ago, well, with
36:40
Speaker 2: the book coming out and all of this stuff, what's next?
36:43
Speaker 2: And I said, what's next? I'm like, I'm no longer
36:45
Speaker 2: confusing exhaustion with success. I want to have a soft life.
36:51
Speaker 2: And they're like, what do you mean? And I'm like,
36:53
Speaker 2: I want peace. I want joy. I want to wake
36:55
Speaker 2: up after sleeping eight hours and make my kids breakfast
36:57
Speaker 2: and send them off to school. I want to write
37:00
Speaker 2: because I enjoy it. I want to take walks outside
37:02
Speaker 2: that don't count as workouts just because I want to
37:05
Speaker 2: go be in nature. Everything doesn't need to check off
37:08
Speaker 2: a box or count for something. I just want to be.
37:11
Speaker 2: That's why I just want a soft life.
37:15
Speaker 1: I love that. And like, you have a book coming out.
37:19
Speaker 1: What's next? Can we embrace this moment? I just... I
37:23
Speaker 1: just wrote a book for God's sakes.
37:25
Speaker 2: What do you want from me? I mean, nothing is next.
37:29
Speaker 2: Connecting with readers, but nothing is next.
37:32
Speaker 1: What is next?
37:33
Speaker 2: Oh my God.
37:34
Speaker 1: Yes. I'm trying to get my book out there. How
37:36
Speaker 1: about that? So speaking of that autopsy of a good girl,
37:40
Speaker 1: which I love the name, share with us about the book.
37:43
Speaker 2: You know, it's really, it's emotional. It's dark. It's a
37:47
Speaker 2: funny collection of personal essays. And it's all about how
37:52
Speaker 2: the good girl becomes, that she's not born that way.
37:55
Speaker 1: She's trained.
37:56
Speaker 2: It's not like a healing book. It's an autopsy. I
37:58
Speaker 2: literally put myself on this table and I sort of
38:01
Speaker 2: dissect childhood, womanhood, motherhood. And it's about going back and
38:05
Speaker 2: seeing how all of these versions of ourselves is created.
38:09
Speaker 2: And I do it through stories. I'm not a therapist
38:11
Speaker 2: or a coach. I didn't write any kind of self-help.
38:14
Speaker 2: It's really like a collection of stories that if you're
38:18
Speaker 2: driving down the road and you hear a song on
38:20
Speaker 2: the radio and in three lyrics, all of a sudden
38:24
Speaker 2: you're that 22 year old in your childhood home, or
38:27
Speaker 2: you're that 14 year old that was traumatized with something
38:30
Speaker 2: or that eight year old that heard that label for
38:32
Speaker 2: the first time. And now is identifying with that. You know,
38:35
Speaker 2: it's to take you back in places, um, and help
38:39
Speaker 2: you realize you were never alone. None of this was
38:42
Speaker 2: ever your fault. You were in survival mode. You, you, um,
38:48
Speaker 2: we become the choices that we make and we can
38:49
Speaker 2: always choose to do differently than what was done to us.
38:52
Speaker 2: So they're entertaining as much as they are heartbreaking. They're
38:55
Speaker 2: funny as much as they are gut-wrenching. I really put
38:59
Speaker 2: it all out there in a very sort of entertaining
39:02
Speaker 2: kind of way. It's almost like you're reading a novel.
39:07
Speaker 2: But I think at this point, I don't know if
39:08
Speaker 2: you agree, but at this point in our lives, I
39:10
Speaker 2: think we have earned the right to laugh at some
39:12
Speaker 2: of this stuff because- Oh, got to laugh somehow. So
39:16
Speaker 2: that's what I've done.
39:18
Speaker 1: And you know what? A lot of people can hear
39:20
Speaker 1: the message through humor, right? Better. It just depends on
39:25
Speaker 1: on who is reading it or who's listening. We all
39:29
Speaker 1: learn and there's a, something we hear and helps us
39:32
Speaker 1: to change, right? It's that one little thing that changes us.
39:37
Speaker 1: So you were talking about the essays that you wrote.
39:40
Speaker 1: So you've created a community around those essays. Is that correct?
39:44
Speaker 1: Is it a blog? Tell us about it. Actually, no.
39:47
Speaker 2: I just started sharing that I wrote a book maybe
39:50
Speaker 2: a month ago. I created this community starting about two
39:53
Speaker 2: years ago. I just started holding my phone up in
39:57
Speaker 2: the car and grabbing one of my kids' glue sticks
39:59
Speaker 2: and just started saying things out loud. Honestly, society says
40:05
Speaker 2: X with childhood trauma and healing. I'm saying Y. I'm
40:09
Speaker 2: speaking of this as a person who's experienced this for
40:11
Speaker 2: 18 years. I grew up in a small town in
40:14
Speaker 2: West Virginia. There was no TikTok or hashtags or algorithm
40:17
Speaker 2: telling me what to do. This is just coming from
40:20
Speaker 2: lived experience. And I know many sides to it. I
40:23
Speaker 2: may be estranged from one parent, but with the other
40:25
Speaker 2: parent that was the alcoholic, I've healed more. He's a
40:28
Speaker 2: great grandfather to my kids. He's present in my lives daily.
40:32
Speaker 2: So there's many ways to heal. But the bottom line is,
40:36
Speaker 2: is that we all have the right, and we are
40:39
Speaker 2: all worthy of peace and love and becoming the person
40:42
Speaker 2: we want to be. So no matter how you get there,
40:44
Speaker 2: I don't care, but please get there. And if you
40:47
Speaker 2: don't believe that you are worthy of it, I'm telling
40:50
Speaker 2: you that you are until you believe it yourself because
40:53
Speaker 2: life is short. Life is short.
40:56
Speaker 1: It is. I always say, borrow my hope until you
40:58
Speaker 1: find your own. Oh, I love that. I love that.
41:01
Speaker 2: Put that on a t-shirt if it's not online. I
41:04
Speaker 2: love that.
41:05
Speaker 1: Keri, thank you so much for coming on Wake Up
41:07
Speaker 1: With Marci and for all the things you do. And
41:10
Speaker 1: what a powerful, powerful message. I mean, you're going to
41:14
Speaker 1: help a lot of people through this book. Thank you.
41:17
Speaker 2: Thank you, Marci, for having me. It's truly an honor.
41:19
Speaker 2: I'm a big fan. And thank you for all that
41:21
Speaker 2: you do.
41:22
Speaker 1: Yeah, thank you. And I just want to say also.
41:25
Speaker 1: Thank you for reminding us that healing isn't a destination.
41:29
Speaker 1: It's a journey and we're allowed to keep growing along
41:33
Speaker 1: the way. And that's what I heard you say. And
41:36
Speaker 1: let's just keep growing one small step at a time.
41:39
Speaker 2: I love it. Thank you so much.
41:41
Speaker 1: All right, Carrie, thank you so much for coming on
41:43
Speaker 1: the show.
41:43
Speaker 2: Thank you.
41:44
Speaker 1: I want to thank you all so much for tuning
41:47
Speaker 1: in to wake up with Marcy. And for those of
41:49
Speaker 1: you beginning your sobriety journey, Please check out my book,
41:52
Speaker 1: Wake Up, You're Not Broken, a companion for your first
41:55
Speaker 1: 30 days of sobriety. And I want you to know,
42:00
Speaker 1: remember this, please. You are not broken. You are healing.
42:05
Speaker 1: You are becoming. And thank you so much for tuning
42:08
Speaker 1: in to Wake Up With Marci today. If today's conversation
42:11
Speaker 1: resonated with you, please like, comment, share with somebody that
42:15
Speaker 1: needs to hear this message. Remember that you are worthy
42:21
Speaker 1: and it's time to wake up to that worth. And
42:23
Speaker 1: I'll see you next Thursday with a new episode. Bye.