Latest / Martyr's Row / Ep. 55 - Unicorns in the Bible?!

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Ep. 55 - Unicorns in the Bible?! · Martyr's Row

0:00
Um, this week on Barter's Row. Is Islam's greatest
0:03
contribution to humanity chess? If you shave
0:06
a polar bear, does it turn into a panda? Did
0:09
6th century monks get reprimanded for playing
0:12
chess in their minds? Was the 5th century physician
0:15
teasing us about the existence of unicorns? Hmm,
0:19
uh, I don't know. Let's find out! 3, 2, 1! Saint
0:40
Tudrig, king of the Britons, having forsaken
0:43
his earthly crown, withdrew himself unto prayer
0:46
and the service of God near the river Wye. Yet
0:50
when heathen enemies rose against the Christian
0:52
people, he was called again from his solitude
0:55
to defend the flock committed unto his care.
0:58
Though advanced in years, he took up arms not
1:02
for ambition or conquest, but for the preservation
1:05
of the faith and the safety of his people. In
1:09
obtaining victory over the invaders, he himself
1:12
received a mortal wound in the conflict. Being
1:16
carried from the field, he exhorted those around
1:19
him to remain steadfast in Christ, and shortly
1:23
after yielded up his spirit. Thus, Tudrig, who
1:27
had first offered unto God a kingdom, afterward
1:31
offered his very life, and was remembered among
1:34
the faithful. as one who counted not his own
1:38
life dear in the defense of Christ's people.
1:41
Anno Domini, 630. Hey, Paul. What's up? Hello.
1:49
Hello. And welcome to Martyrs' Row. Steven. WQLS.
1:55
MartyrsRow .com. Wait, what? Forward slash. Yes.
1:59
Yes. Three S's. Say yes. Say yes. To the dress.
2:07
That's a lot of things on the backslash. Yeah.
2:10
Oh, forward slash. Forward slash HTML. Forward
2:13
slash say yes to the dress backslash WQRS. Dot
2:18
HTML. Yeah. If you have any questions. Yes. You
2:22
can go to martyrsrow .co .uk dot com. We own
2:27
them all. All the ones that cost one cent. It's
2:30
a .com, but we wanted to reach a UK audience.
2:35
At this point, you can just, on your remote,
2:37
just say Martyrs Row, and we'll be there. Because
2:41
we're answering the question, how can I listen
2:43
to this podcast? Yes, obviously. In the middle
2:45
of the podcast that you're listening to. That's
2:48
why we're here. It's a question we see in the
2:50
comments all the time. You're welcome. In the
2:51
middle of the episode. You're welcome. Here we
2:54
are. How do I do this? Don't worry. You will
2:56
find us soon. And if you have found us. Welcome.
2:59
Welcome. We're glad you're here. Take off your
3:02
shoes. Leave on your pants and jacket. Unless
3:04
you're in public. No, take them off. But leave
3:07
on your pants and jacket. Yeah, that's true.
3:09
Yeah. If you want to destroy my sweater. But
3:13
if your dogs are barking. Not the song segment.
3:17
I do love a good sweater. Yeah. We know. We know.
3:22
Collectively. Yeah, that's true. You know, I
3:24
have a question for you, Steven. Okay. Steven.
3:28
Question, question, question, question. It's
3:30
an ask Steven questions kind of day. Let's do
3:32
it. Yeah. I'm here for it. Do you like, when
3:34
you think of like. Do you like. Do you like.
3:36
I don't know why I said it that way. I was going
3:39
to pivot mid -word. Do you like. Excuse me. I
3:44
have a question for you. Do you like. Pardon
3:47
me. All right, so what's the question, Paul?
3:52
I was trying to think of how to ask it, but I
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guess I was going to ask it like this. Do you
3:55
like... What do you think of classic board games?
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Just thinking of the last episode. Mary. Queen
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Mary. Queen Mary. Bloody Mary. Do you guys like
4:11
playing board games? Like the classic games?
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Who are you talking to? You. Like you and the
4:17
people around you. You think board game people?
4:20
No, not really, but I like playing them. Yeah.
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I used to more with my siblings. Okay, that's
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fair. Yeah, but I don't really very much anymore.
4:28
Yeah, because you find yourself like, what's
4:31
like the, like Batgammon is one of them? Okay,
4:34
that is a game. Or like any other like - Never
4:36
played that though. Really? Yeah. Okay, it's
4:38
kind of fun. Or like chess, big chess guy? No.
4:41
Really? Played a lot of checkers. Okay, checkers
4:44
is fun. I like chess. I never put any time into
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it. Yeah, same. And you have to, to play chess.
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If you want to be any good. Yes. I feel like
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not putting any time into it is great if the
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other person also has not. Correct. Yeah. That's
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true of everything. You have more fun doing whatever
5:03
you're doing if you're on the same skill level
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of the other person. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Unless
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they're a little bit better and you want to learn.
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That's true. Then that's beneficial. Yeah. But
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if they're not kind. Yeah, but if they're not
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kind, then it doesn't matter how good they are
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at anything. Yeah, that's fair. Yeah, chess was
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one where there was actually a period. Do you
5:24
remember the show The Queen's Gambit? I do. It
5:27
was a great show. Yeah, it was pretty wild. It
5:29
was fun. And actually, that one was like, oh,
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maybe I'm going to start playing chess. I think
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a lot of people said that. They totally did.
5:36
There's a lot of people downloading chess. Fair.
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So I was one of those people. Okay. And I was
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like, oh, this is actually kind of fun. And then
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I was like, yeah, but I don't really want to
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put that much time into it. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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And I just stopped. Chess online? Yeah. Yeah.
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But it's interesting because chess is an old
5:51
game. How old is it? Well, so glad you asked.
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How old is it? So chess was invented in India.
6:03
Okay. Around the 6th century AD. AD? Yeah. Okay,
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so around the time Islam started. Yes. And they're
6:12
actually the ones who spread it. No way. Yeah.
6:14
Are you serious? Yeah, you read ahead. No, I
6:17
didn't. But that's like that time period is...
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And that's like the Byzantine Empire. Yeah. Yeah.
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Yeah. Which, actually, there's a crazy story
6:27
about their downfall even, but that's for another
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time. Yeah, for another opening. Yeah, has to
6:33
do with the Knights Templar. Stay tuned. Interesting
6:36
stuff. Stay tuned, you Knights Templar out there.
6:40
Have we got a show for you. I don't know why
6:46
that's a thing. If you want to destroy VeggieTales.
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Oh, actually, it might be. Well, I don't know.
6:52
Okay. Sounds like something they do. So Muslims
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spread chess. Yeah. The chess disease. So if
7:04
you're a Muslim out there, chess is your heritage.
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Is that a weird thing to say? I don't know. I
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have no clue. Yeah. It is a conquering game.
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Yeah. Yeah. And so it actually entered medieval
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Europe. Mainly through the trade routes from
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- Medieval Europe? Medieval. Okay. Medieval.
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The medieval times. Medieval Europe during the
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6th century AD. Yeah. During the conquest of
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the Ottoman Empire. No? I'm pretty sure it's
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Byzantine. You're correct. Yeah. Okay. You're
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correct. Not because I know different, just because
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you said it so confidently. Yes. I think Ottoman
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is Persian. I think so, yeah. These are things.
7:51
These are words. And you can look things and
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use things. That's true. It's crazy. But yeah,
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so it's through the Islamic world and the Byzantine
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cultural contact. Interesting. Yeah. Interesting.
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And then so by the 10th to 12th century, it was
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widely known among nobility, spread into monasteries
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and clergy circles, and it became a prestige
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intellectual game. Okay, so that's problematic.
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If it's going into monasteries, then they are
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not spending time in solitude and prayer like
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they should. You know what? You're not the only
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one who thought that. No way. Because there were
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- There was a great reform? There were a lot
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of monasteries that actually put bands on - On
8:33
them playing chess. Yeah, you have to. They ban
8:35
chess. You're supposed to sit there and do nothing.
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Yeah. They're like, what if I do a little chess?
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Oh, tomorrow I'll play chess. I just want to
8:43
play. No, keep whipping yourself. Pray more.
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Stare at that wall. Don't think about chess.
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Well, the problem too with chess is you can play
8:57
chess in your mind, like the Queen's Gambit.
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Oh, yeah, that's true. So she would play whole
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rounds of chess in her mind. How do you manage
9:04
that? So you're saying there's a whole era of
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time where all of the monasteries were full of...
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Not all. No, all of the monasteries were full
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of monks who were playing chess in their minds
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because it was banned? It was like... They're
9:17
like, move the king to A4. That's a chess thing,
9:25
right? Checkmate. That's a beautiful song. We
9:30
got the other, like the master monk is like,
9:34
hey, stop it. I hear what you're doing. Stop
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playing chess. They're doing their daily hymns.
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They're like, this is not a song. Pun for two,
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clean seven. That's nothing. Good move. You got
9:59
me. Amen. That's how they end. That's how they
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end their game. Oh, that's awesome. And what's
10:11
interesting, too, is because chess. The rules
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to chess now are different than they were originally.
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Okay. And they've evolved over time. It's all
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the monk's fault. Which is funny because it actually
10:20
took longer to play chess than it does now. Makes
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sense. And so it could take like half a day to
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play one game. Well, you know, that's how things
10:28
work. Technology moves things forward. That's
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true. We're like, let's speed this up. We got
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to streamline this game. We got to put time limits
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on this. Fair. That's cool. Makes sense. And
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so actually the root of the issue. was actually,
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distraction was one of them, but the other part
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of it was gambling. Oh, that also makes sense.
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Yeah, and because they used to play chess for
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stakes. Not like the meat. You got me excited
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there for a second. You're like, oh, wait, what?
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I mean, it actually could have been stakes. Fair.
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I'd play a game of chess for stakes. I mean,
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what else were they doing with their money? I
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mean, buying another robe? It's the same color,
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bro. Why are you naked? I lost all my robes.
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Chess is banned. Okay, no more chess. That's
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it. Amen. And actually, because of the gambling
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aspect to it, they just kind of lumped it in
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with dice games. Oh, fair. And so they're like,
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yeah, all those things. Not good. Fair. And so,
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yeah, monasteries held to strict time structures
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and chess could disrupt those routines by consuming
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too many hours and encouraging competitiveness.
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Okay. So the monasteries is where all the time
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limits started to play in? Yeah. That's interesting.
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So it's interesting because, yeah, so chess became
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like a moral concern. Fair. For the early church.
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It was distracting. Well, not the early church,
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the medieval church. But are we talking about
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Christian monasteries or are we talking about
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Islamic monasteries? Christian monasteries. Oh,
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so the early church fathers. Yeah. Well, a few
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hundred years later. The early church fathers
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are more like 300. Father, forgive me my sin.
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I played chess today. That's an unforgivable
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sin. Father, forgive me for my sin. For I have
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played chess today. You're going to hell. 300
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Hail Marys. Please purify my thoughts of these
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chess moves. Amen. I hope you like purgatory
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because you're not leaving. Well, okay. So chess.
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So yeah, I thought that was kind of interesting.
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It is very interesting. It never would have guessed
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that chess would be that controversial. It's
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also interesting that like it came up with the
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rise of Islam and it was a problem for Christian
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monasteries. Isn't that just typical? That's
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wild. So if you haven't played chess anytime
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soon. You're a good Christian. Don't. Three,
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two, one. They tried to bury what they couldn't
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explain. Margins filled with beasts they called
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by name. A single horn in sketches won't chase
13:30
through time, but never really control. Oh, oh.
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He called it myth to keep it out of sight, but
13:51
you survived still. Thank you. We won't bid,
14:31
we won't break. Hold the line for truth, so it's
14:35
safe. Through the dark, through the dark. We
14:40
stand fast on martyrs row. We won't bid, we won't
14:47
break. Hold the line for truth, so it's safe.
14:52
Through the dark. Through the tall we stand fast
14:56
On martyr's road On martyr's road We're back.
15:23
We're back. And we are back on Martyr's Row.
15:26
Yes. Continuing what we've been talking about.
15:28
Yes, which has all been great stuff. Beautiful.
15:31
It's the best work we've done so far. Song? Beautiful.
15:34
Beautiful song. Music to my ears. Love it. So
15:39
what's on your mind, Paul? You know what? So
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I like to look into weird things. I do know this.
15:47
As do I. Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's a lot of weird
15:50
rabbit holes I find myself on. And so actually
15:53
I want to ask you a question. Okay. I may not
15:56
have an answer. That's fair. Yeah, that's fair.
15:58
I won't be silent though. You'll give a response.
16:03
I will. It may just be unintelligent. Nah. An
16:07
intelligent non -response. Yeah, exactly. Okay.
16:10
As long as it fills air. Let's do it. Okay. So.
16:15
You know how a lot of, like, we have, like, state
16:17
birds? Yes, we do. So, a lot of countries will
16:21
have, like, a state animal. Okay. Like, different
16:24
countries. Different countries. Okay. Well, I
16:27
know, like, China has, like, they do it based
16:30
on the calendars. Well, that's for, like, their
16:32
zodiac. Like, the year of the, you know, blah,
16:36
blah, blah. But I'm pretty sure, like, theirs
16:38
is a panda bear. It's, like, their national animal.
16:40
The national, okay, that makes sense. I might
16:42
be wrong about that. That's a total guess. I
16:43
wonder who comes up with these. That's a good
16:46
question. Some random committee. Yeah. Sorry,
16:49
you ask your question. No, yeah, but it's along
16:51
that line. Okay. And so there's one that stood
16:55
out to me that was really interesting. Okay.
16:57
And so I want to ask you is, do you know what
17:01
the state animal, or like the country's animal
17:04
of Scotland, do you know what Scotland's animal
17:07
is? The national animal of Scotland. Yeah. What
17:10
is the national animal of Scotland? I have a
17:13
guess. Okay. Is it Nessie? It's not. You're on
17:17
the right track though, honestly. That's a great
17:20
guess. Where is Nessie? Isn't Nessie in Scotland?
17:23
Yeah, that's in, yeah. They missed an opportunity
17:25
there. Well, it might have started earlier. Okay.
17:31
It's a bizarre one. A bizarre one. Yeah. Let's
17:35
see. What are these Nordics up to? They're not
17:38
really Nordics, I don't think. Well, it all trickles
17:42
down. I mean, Nessie. You're on the right path
17:50
with that idea. Well, and to be fair, Nessie's
17:53
one animal or beast. Yeah, true. Versus it being
17:56
something that's more prevalent as a species.
17:59
Yeah. So species of, I don't know, gnomes? Can
18:08
a gnome be a... That would be amazing. We should
18:10
do an episode on gnomes, actually. The national
18:11
animal of Scotland. Yeah. Gnomes. Makes sense.
18:16
It does. We should do an episode on gnomes. That'd
18:19
be so much fun. We should. Yes. But unfortunately,
18:22
that answer is incorrect. Okay. So the correct
18:25
answer is actually unicorns. Unicorns. Yeah.
18:29
So another non -thing. Yeah, which is like...
18:33
Wait, that's weird. That's kind of weird, isn't
18:36
it? but unicorns are not non -real right like
18:40
there's like there are horned horses at least
18:46
at some point right don't we have like skeletal
18:49
well that's kind of the a lot of those some there
18:51
was actually a guy who's kind of funny he put
18:53
together a bunch of stuff and he's like yeah
18:55
that's a unicorn and you look at it it's like
18:57
has no neck and by stuff and it's just like Yeah.
19:03
Yeah, a bunch of bones. And they're like, is
19:05
that real? He's like, no, I made it up. They're
19:07
like, yeah, that's what I thought. Makes sense.
19:11
Yeah, I don't know. So there's no, okay. For
19:13
some reason, I thought there were remains of
19:15
something. Okay. I don't know. Yeah, it's kind
19:18
of strange. As far as I know, I don't think there's
19:20
any like skeletal remains that we found. Okay.
19:23
So then why are unicorns a potentially fictitious
19:27
animal? Yeah. of presumably a horse. That's a
19:32
great question. Maybe a predecessor of the horse.
19:35
Yeah. Why are they the national animal of Scotland?
19:40
It's actually just like a drawing. Someone's
19:42
pointing at it. They're like, oh, it has a horn.
19:44
No, I'm pointing at it. It's a picture of me
19:47
pointing at a horse. Just cut out the rest of
19:51
the body. Leave the finger. Like, yeah, it's
19:53
a unicorn. Well, but then, okay. But it has to
19:56
be like... a species because like america is
19:59
the bald eagle right but those are real yeah
20:04
yeah we can see i've seen them personally yes
20:06
yes stay away from them but you can see them
20:09
yeah they're they're pretty dangerous it's crazy
20:11
yeah you can get in a lot of trouble for that
20:13
that that's also true so why the unicorn You
20:16
know, that's a great question. Thanks. And instead
20:18
of answering that right away, I want to pivot
20:21
us to something else that's weird. Okay, let's
20:24
do it. I just wanted to open you up with that.
20:26
Let's do it. Just like, huh, that's a weird thing.
20:28
Let's do it then. You know what else is weird?
20:30
What? Is that in the King James version of the
20:34
Bible. What was that? That's a callback to our
20:38
last opener. Okay. The Geneva Bible. But what
20:42
were you? That was my allegiance to the state
20:44
and to God. That was like a Sammy Sosa. It was
20:48
like, yeah, heart, kiss. Well, you have to go
20:50
side to side. It's the cross thing. I don't do
20:52
the cross. I skip. Okay. It's just me to the
20:54
Lord. Okay. So the King James. Yeah. Has unicorns
21:01
in it. It mentions the word unicorn is used nine
21:05
times in the King James Bible. The word unicorn.
21:07
Yeah. Okay. Read it to me. I would love to. I
21:12
have read the King James Bible. I'm going to
21:15
turn myself up. Okay. Yeah, get loud. Check,
21:19
check, check. Get loud. Yeah, let's get a little
21:21
louder in this. So the first passage that we
21:25
see this is Numbers 23, 22. Numbers 23, 22. That's
21:31
confusing. And it says, this is all in King James,
21:33
so. Bear with us. Bear with us. God brought them
21:38
out of Egypt. He hath, as it were, the strength
21:42
of an unicorn. The strength of a unicorn? Yeah.
21:46
Huh. Interesting. And then we have Numbers 24,
21:50
8. Didn't take too long to come back to that.
21:52
No. Same general area. Yeah. It says, God brought
21:56
him forth out of Egypt. He hath, as it were,
21:59
the strength of a unicorn. He shall eat up all
22:02
the nations' enemies and shall break their bones
22:05
and pierce them through with an arrow. Why not
22:10
with a horn? With his arrows. I know. And pierce
22:14
them through with the horn. Of which he has because
22:17
he is a unicorn. Okay. And then we have Deuteronomy
22:27
33, 17. Okay. And it says his glory. A little
22:31
earlier. A little earlier. His glory is like
22:35
the first sling of his bullock, and his horns
22:38
are like the horns of unicorns. With them he
22:41
shall push the people together to the ends of
22:44
the earth, and they are the ten thousands of
22:47
Ephraim, and they are the thousands of Manasseh.
22:50
Huh. Okay, so this is the third example. Yeah,
22:55
and there's still more to go. So wait, so why?
23:00
Is the King James the only translation that mentions
23:04
unicorns? Well, that's a great question. Okay,
23:06
good. I love it. I was hoping it wasn't a question
23:09
you didn't have an answer for. That's a dumb
23:10
question. So my next point. Moving on. Let's
23:15
just edit that out. That's awesome. So we'll
23:21
actually walk it from like current all the way
23:25
back to the Hebrew translation. Oh, okay, okay.
23:29
Or Hebrew. Starting from King James? Actually
23:32
starting from even modern. Because modern, like
23:35
the English Standard Version, even the new King
23:37
James, doesn't use unicorn. Okay. And so the
23:40
word that they actually use is wild ox. Wild
23:43
ox? Yeah, which is vastly different ideas. Not
23:47
in the horse family. No. Wild ox. Yeah. Don't
23:51
oxen have like... Two horns? Yeah, but aren't
23:54
they like parted in the middle and smoothed out?
23:57
Yeah, I think they kind of like. It looks like
23:59
they're like gelled. Yeah. Like they've melted
24:02
horns on them. They have like, what's the little
24:06
rascal? Oh, Alfalfa? Alfalfa. Like how he's parted
24:11
and then it's like slicked down. Yeah. That's
24:13
kind of what their horns are like. Yeah, it's
24:15
true. Except for the slick is like the horn.
24:17
And then they go, that's what. Yeah, they kind
24:18
of. Yeah. Yeah. So what is. But I think even
24:21
that one that they're thinking of, I think it
24:24
did have like two straight horns. Okay. This
24:27
particular ox? This particular one, yeah, which
24:29
we'll talk about that. How do you get from, okay,
24:32
walk us back the etymology. Yeah, so that's where
24:34
our modern translations, English translations
24:37
would use, would translate it as wild ox. Then
24:40
we have the King James, which translates to unicorn.
24:44
And then before that, we have the Vulgate. Okay.
24:47
Which used unicornus. Unicornus? Yeah. Like a
24:51
cornucopia? Like a cornucopia. A cornucopia of
24:54
unicornus? Delicious treat. Yes, could I have
24:57
one cornucopia of unicornius? Oh, excellent choice.
25:02
Sorry, sir, we only have oxen here. Tastes like
25:06
fruity pebbles. That does make sense. Yeah. Okay.
25:14
And then before that, we have the Septuagint,
25:16
which was the word monokeros. Okay, so the Greek.
25:21
Yeah. Monokeros? Monokeros. Okay, so we're going.
25:25
King James, which is proper English, back to
25:28
the Vulgate, which is Latin, and then back to
25:32
Septuagint, which is the Greek. And then if we
25:36
bring it back to the Hebrew text, the word there
25:38
is Re 'im. Re 'im? Yeah, which sounds a lot like
25:42
unicorn, doesn't it? Well, the first thing that
25:47
sticks out to me is the R -E at the top, which
25:51
usually doesn't end well. I mean, they were vicious
25:56
creatures. Usually in Hebrew, if it starts with
25:59
R -E, it's not. It's like oof. Yeah, like rabom.
26:06
Yeah, like the refaim. Exactly. It's like oof.
26:10
Yeah, yeah. It's not great things. Yeah, it's
26:13
not great. So these are vicious creatures. Yeah,
26:15
so the way that the passage is. Mighty warrior
26:17
animals. Yes. Some could say beasts of the field.
26:22
Potentially. Okay. Yeah, so like you're saying,
26:25
their descriptions there are strength, wildness.
26:30
Okay, yeah, yeah. Horns, and inability to domesticate
26:36
in dangerous power. Because we see that, the
26:39
inability to domesticate that language in Job.
26:42
Okay. Which actually, I'll just read that one.
26:44
We didn't read through all of them, not like
26:46
we need to, but that one is - Oh, Job mentions
26:48
unicorns? Yeah. So it's Job, then four of them
26:52
are from the Psalms, or three of them are from
26:53
Psalms, and then another one from Isaiah. Okay.
26:56
So we actually get two of the nine references
26:58
are in Job. I feel like if you had asked the
27:01
question, hey, the word unicorn is used in the
27:06
Bible, where do you think it is? My guess would
27:09
be Psalms. Yes. Because I feel like that makes
27:12
the most sense. But you're saying it's only referenced
27:13
twice. Three times in the Psalms. Three out of
27:16
nine. So a third. Yeah. That makes sense. But
27:18
it's still like, well, hold on. But these other
27:19
ones talk about it? But also the Psalms is kind
27:21
of where we get more detailed description of
27:24
everything. Yeah, that's true. So it makes sense.
27:28
Yeah. It's not unsurprising. It's not. But Deuteronomy
27:33
and Numbers? It's like, wait, hold on. Yeah,
27:35
yeah, yeah. That's weird. That legitimizes it.
27:37
Yeah, now it's real. Okay, so. Case closed. Tell
27:41
me about the re. Well, let's get into that in
27:44
a second. Okay. I want to read the Job passage
27:46
first. Job passage. Passages, I guess. Unicorns.
27:49
It's a couple of verses. And it says, Will the
27:52
unicorn be willing to serve thee, or abide by
27:56
thy crib? Canst thou bind the unicorn with his
27:59
band in the furrow? Or will he harrow the valleys
28:03
after thee? Wilt thou trust him because his strength
28:08
is great? Or wilt thou leave thy labor to him?
28:11
Wilt thou believe him that he will bring home
28:14
thy seed and gather into thy barn? So this idea
28:18
of like, yeah, you're not going to get it to
28:20
do what you want ever. Right. So it's a beast
28:23
that cannot be tamed. Yeah. That is, yeah. So
28:29
kind of an individual beast that is wild. It
28:34
has very strong features. Yeah. Makes sense.
28:39
Yes. So like strong as an ox. Yeah. So that's
28:42
the evolution of it, it seems like. Well, yeah,
28:45
because there's some very strong, especially
28:47
in here, like textual evidence. Okay. Modern
28:50
translators get the idea of this is actually
28:52
a wild ox and not a unicorn. Yeah. How do we
28:55
get there? Because it feels like, okay. So at
28:58
some point. In the origin, it wasn't unicorn
29:02
because it wasn't English. Right. And then we
29:07
slowly get to unicorn and then it evolves out
29:09
of unicorn into wild ox. Yeah, which is totally
29:12
different. Did you happen to look up what the
29:14
Geneva Bible says? No, I didn't actually. That
29:17
would be interesting. Keep going. Let me see
29:18
if I can find it. Yeah. Oh, I should have done
29:20
that. What's the Job passage? It's Job 39 .9.
29:26
Job 39 .9. All right, keep going. And so, yeah,
29:31
so the questions revolve around that we see in
29:34
this Job passage, these Job passages, is that
29:36
it's talking about serving humans in agricultural
29:39
use. Okay. And so typically if you think like
29:42
a horse -like creature, you don't think of them
29:44
like plowing fields. Sure. So that's where some
29:48
of their ideas came from. Okay. They're like,
29:50
well, hold on. Actually, it doesn't make sense
29:53
that a horse would be plowing a field. That's
29:55
fair. Yeah. Yeah. And so it's like, yeah, that
29:58
doesn't really seem to make sense. Yeah, but
30:00
that's kind of a speculation based off context.
30:04
Yes. Like that's a big leap. It is. To go, it
30:07
has to be a beast that people have tamed. Yes.
30:11
But that's like an adjacent species. And that's
30:15
where like the wild ox part comes in. Yeah, because
30:17
if you just say. Because they're like, it's a
30:19
version of an ox that we can't tame. That also
30:22
doesn't exist? Yeah. Are there wild ox? Well,
30:27
that specific one, I think it was an Oryx. Okay.
30:31
Which I believe have gone extinct. Okay. Oh,
30:36
no. Oh, what does it say? Job 39 .10? Nine? Yeah,
30:42
39 .9 and 10. 39 .9. It is I which how he who
30:49
made the wildernessy. His house and the salt
30:53
places his dwellings. He daredeth the multitude
30:57
of the city. He heareth not the cry of the dreyer.
31:03
He seeketh out the mountain for his pasture.
31:07
That doesn't sound like the same verses. And
31:09
searcheth after airy green thing. I guess E -U
31:16
-E -R -Y. Oh, here we go, actually. Will the
31:19
unicorn serve thee? No, that says... Vinicorn.
31:23
Well, there was no standardized spelling then.
31:27
Yeah, this is not English. Technically, it is
31:30
the word. No, it's not. But it is technically
31:33
the word unicorn there. Yeah, it's like a German
31:36
version of it. This is interesting, though. Okay.
31:39
Because in other translations, this part, verse
31:44
12 in here, is actually verse 9. Really? Oh,
31:47
so this is swapped around. That would be really
31:49
interesting to see. Will the unicorn serve thee?
31:53
Or will he tarry by the cribby? Cribby? Canst
31:58
thou bind the unicorn with his band to labor
32:03
in the furrow? Or will he plow the valleys after
32:06
thee? Okay, so it's saying can we tame the wild
32:09
beast? Yes. Okay. Yeah, which is an interesting
32:14
idea. Look, I just read the Geneva Bible that's
32:16
not clearly in modern English, and I got the
32:19
context of what it meant. They use letters willy
32:21
-nilly. Yeah. Wild. They're like, yeah, that's
32:25
a V. I've never seen a unicorn spelled that way.
32:27
I didn't know you could spell it that way. It
32:28
must be German. Put a V in front of it? Actually,
32:32
more Nordic. No wonder they left. Like, yeah.
32:35
Well, where is Geneva? Anyways, I'm asking you
32:38
questions you don't have answers to. That's fair.
32:44
That's amazing. Who was it? Okay, so the other
32:48
evidence that scholars use for the wild ox translation,
32:52
which I think is a little bit stronger, is Switzerland.
32:58
Geneva is in Switzerland. Makes sense. That does
33:01
make sense. I don't know why it does. That's
33:04
why, because it's not necessarily a German thing.
33:06
It's Germanic, but to put the V in front of the
33:10
word instead of a U. Oh, I see, yeah. Is more
33:14
Swedish. The Swiss. Yeah, that makes sense. Okay.
33:19
Yeah. Sorry. You're good, it's just funny. Oh,
33:26
Geneva. Oh, Geneva. That's our song. I love it.
33:33
So the other external evidence that we see is
33:35
the Akkadian word rimu. Okay. Which means wild
33:40
bull or wild ox. Wild bull or wild, okay. And
33:43
so Akkadian and Hebrew are related Semitic languages
33:46
and Re 'im and Re'mu are phonetically similar.
33:50
Okay, so Akkadian would have been more of a,
33:53
like Mesopotamia? Yeah, yeah. And so they're
33:58
saying like, oh, these words are actually like
34:00
very similar. So it means wild ox. Gotcha. But
34:04
here's the interesting thing. Okay. Is that there
34:06
are words in every language that can sound similar
34:09
but carry vastly different meanings. This is
34:12
a term called false friends. Okay. And so, for
34:16
example. They sound similar. They're not necessarily
34:19
spelled similar. Sometimes they're spelled exactly
34:21
the same. Okay. Yeah. So, for example, in Germanic
34:26
languages, speaking of which. Yes. Which we have
34:28
like English, German, Dutch, and Norwegian. Right.
34:32
we have the word gift in English. Okay. Which
34:36
means present or offering. Yes. But in German,
34:39
it means poison. Oh. And it's spelled and pronounced
34:42
pretty much the exact same way. Really? Yeah.
34:44
Huh. And like, oh, well, that's kind of weird.
34:47
That is weird. So it's like, oh, wait, so the
34:49
fact that these two words are phonetically similar,
34:51
does that actually mean anything? Because they
34:53
could mean totally different things. I see what
34:56
you're saying. But so here's the part where it's
34:59
like you say that, and then the scholars are
35:01
like, oh, time to study. Yeah. And so the difference
35:05
here is that the Semitic languages are unique
35:09
because they are built on a strict system of
35:11
three consonant roots, and words don't just sound
35:15
similar by accident. They follow rigid, predictable
35:17
mathematical formulas as they morph between languages.
35:22
Okay, so the Semitic language is a little bit
35:24
more rigid. Yeah. There's a lot of rules that
35:27
they don't break. Right. Makes sense. So they're
35:29
like, oh yeah, they're actually like very, very
35:31
similar. So looking back on it and when it says
35:34
the name in like the R -E name. Yeah. What was
35:38
it again? Raim. So that wouldn't mean something
35:41
else across Semitic languages. So it'd be very
35:46
unlikely that it would. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. That
35:49
makes sense. Yeah. And so the root for this animal
35:51
we have is R -M. Okay. In Akkadian, this root
35:55
consistently yields ramu. In Hebrew, it yields
35:58
raim. And across all of these sister languages
36:02
in the exact same geographical region, this specific
36:05
root never shifts meaning to something completely
36:07
different. Like we have the example of like poison
36:10
and present. Yeah, yeah. In Semitic cognates,
36:14
which is what they're called, the root is consistently
36:16
associated with wild bovine or large horned animals.
36:21
Oh, okay. So it's just large horned animals.
36:25
Yeah. That are wild. And it typically puts them
36:28
in like a bovine family. Okay. Yeah. So a wild
36:32
beast with horns. Yeah. I mean, that makes sense.
36:36
Right. But how did we get to unicorn? And that's
36:39
the weird part. What's the first one that uses
36:43
unicorn? Did you say that the Vulgate does? Well,
36:46
in the Septuagint is where we get the monoceros.
36:48
Okay. Which means one horned. Correct. But it's
36:51
like, oh, wait, hold on. So like, it seems like
36:53
in the original, it's talking about something
36:54
that has multiple horns, potentially. Potentially.
36:58
So are we saying that? Where did they get that
37:00
idea from then? So this, oh, Septuagint. Yeah.
37:03
Okay. The next one. So the, yeah, that's fair.
37:08
Yeah, so then the apostles would have read a
37:13
mono horn, a single horned beast. Yeah. Wow.
37:18
Okay. Yeah, and it's kind of interesting. So
37:20
then there must be a single horned beast. Unless
37:24
mono is referring to a pair, a single pair. Yeah.
37:29
Which again is like adjacent. Right. It's like
37:32
that implies a lot. It does, yeah. And so I guess
37:37
the question really is like, so how did the Septuagint
37:41
translate rim into... the one -horned or minoceros.
37:45
Right. And not, so we have like the word in Greek,
37:48
like toros, which means wild bull. Okay. And
37:51
it's like, that's not a perfect association,
37:54
but it is idea of like, yeah, here's this wild
37:56
untamable beast. Yeah, yeah. It's like, okay,
37:58
so there are other words available. Sure. So
38:01
why did they choose this one? Yeah, why? Yeah.
38:05
Why, Paul? Tell me why we get to unicorn. The
38:09
truth is, no one actually knows for sure. So
38:13
we don't really know why the Septuagint translated
38:16
this way, but we have ideas. I mean, they translated
38:20
the Septuagint in Alexandria. Yes. At least as
38:25
the legend goes. Correct. The 70 rabbis were
38:29
brought down into Alexandria and isolated in
38:33
order to write, to do their translation of the
38:40
Old Testament. Yeah. And that's one where it's
38:44
interesting. So it's like, okay, so if we have
38:48
70 isolated independent scribes translating this,
38:53
how come they all chose the same word? Fair.
38:57
But that's a little bit of lore mixed in with
39:00
history. Right. Yeah, it's true. That is true.
39:03
And at some point they had to have corroborated
39:09
and come together and counseled. Like, yeah,
39:13
I'd be interested to know how many people agreed
39:15
on unicorn. Right. That would be interesting.
39:20
Yeah. Like it has to be. But also like, but did,
39:23
but where's the parallel unicorn myth? I'm glad
39:31
you asked that. Okay. We'll get there. Okay.
39:34
So you could say I'm asking the right questions.
39:37
The right questions. Okay. Yeah. Just a little
39:39
bit. I hate to ask a question. That you're not
39:41
ready for. That's fair. And if you do, then I'll
39:44
be like, I actually don't know that one. Love
39:46
it. Yeah. And you should do that too, by the
39:48
way. Yeah, that's right. There's nothing wrong
39:49
with saying I have no clue. Dear listener. Dear
39:51
listener. And so why we see this pop up in the
39:57
Septuagint, some critics believe that this is
40:01
an internal inconsistency. in the Septuagint
40:04
because of Deuteronomy 33, 17. Okay. One of the
40:07
ones that we read. Right. Which says, a firstborn
40:10
bull, he has majesty and his horns are the horns
40:14
of a wild ox. That's in the ESV translation.
40:18
Okay, yeah. So, but in King James, so what we
40:21
see in the ESV, it says wild ox, singular. Got
40:24
it. And then in the King James, it says his glory
40:27
is like the first sling of his bullock and his
40:30
horns are like the horns of unicorns, plural.
40:33
And so they're like, oh, okay. So there's just
40:37
an inconsistency. They wanted this idea and they
40:40
just had to make it work. Got it. Okay. So yeah,
40:43
they worked together to figure out what made
40:45
the most sense. Yeah. And so in this passage,
40:49
the word for horns. is in the plural form, and
40:53
the word ra 'im is in the singular form. So it
40:57
would have to be a single animal with multiple
41:00
horns. However, it's not that simple, as always.
41:04
Never is. So the underlying Hebrew text of the
41:08
Bible often uses singular nouns for plural words.
41:11
Okay. It's like, of course they did. Wait, say
41:14
the first part again. So in the Hebrew text.
41:17
In the Hebrew text, they use plural nouns for.
41:20
They can use. singular nouns for plural world
41:23
yeah oh so that goes back to the idea of a pair
41:26
right and so it's like oh well that's it's kind
41:29
of weird and the example we have of that is actually
41:31
in deuteronomy as well okay i'm sure there's
41:33
more this is the one that i found got it uh which
41:36
is deuteronomy 8 15 and it says who led you through
41:40
the great and terrifying wilderness with its
41:42
fiery serpents and scorpions and thirsty ground
41:45
where there was no water who brought you water
41:49
out of the flinty rock and so the word serpents
41:53
and scorpions is actually in the singular form
41:55
in hebrew however um because of context it's
42:00
translated as plural okay yeah i mean we have
42:04
we have uh groupings like that like i can't think
42:08
of one right now but there are some things where
42:10
like you would say like mouse or mice right yeah
42:14
but there are some animals where deer and deer
42:17
yeah right Yeah, you wouldn't say deers. No.
42:21
You would just say there are deer. There are
42:23
moosen. There are moosen deer. Deer moosen. That
42:29
sounds good. Yeah, and that's where it's like
42:31
the context of it matters to be like, oh, there
42:32
is a deer outside or there are deer outside.
42:35
Yeah, the setup to it. Okay, that makes sense.
42:38
Yeah, and so that's like a potential like, hey,
42:41
that could just be what's going on here as well.
42:44
Gotcha. Because if in their mind Raim is a single
42:47
horned animal. Yes. Talking about horns pluribig,
42:50
of course there's more than one. Fair. If that's
42:53
what's actually happening. That would be their
42:55
response. Yeah. Like, what do you mean one horned?
42:58
Yeah. And there's other texts to corroborate
43:01
that story. Corroborate? One -eyed, one -horned,
43:05
flying purple people eater. Do you know that?
43:07
I do know that one. I was trying to see if I
43:10
could get to it. I wasn't... I was like, what
43:12
is the... Okay. You have to go up at the end.
43:17
And so, monochorus literally means one -horned.
43:22
However, it is not necessarily a technical zoological
43:25
category. Okay. A zoological category. Big word,
43:28
right? Yeah. Get ready for your zoological categories,
43:32
kids. And the zoological category. So the ancient
43:35
Greek animal terminology was often descriptive
43:38
and not a precise taxonomy. Okay. Two big words.
43:43
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so with this description,
43:46
there are many known animals that could qualify
43:49
as the winner for this category. Yeah. So also
43:53
worth pointing out. We already talked about this.
44:00
Yeah. So it's like they could have used other
44:03
words to refer to an ox or a cow or a bull. Okay.
44:08
But they chose this word. And as one of our favorite
44:12
things to say is if something in the Bible is
44:14
weird, it's probably important. Yeah. But they
44:16
seem to have changed it and adjusted it over
44:18
time. Right. So it's like digging into, well,
44:22
at one point it said unicorn. Right. And why
44:25
did we flip back out of that? Yeah. Yeah. And
44:28
if you're like, if you're a listener of this
44:31
podcast, then the answer would be because it's
44:34
the King James. Because the King loved unicorns.
44:41
Well, just simply that like the King, like the
44:44
King James, it's not that it was wrong. It's
44:47
that when you look at the King James, they would
44:49
fill in the blanks for you. Yes. So like the
44:52
King James translation, it's not incorrect. And
44:55
a lot of people go, this is the best version.
44:57
Are they also the same people who, if they stopped
45:00
reading the King James version, the next Bible
45:03
that they would read would be the amplified version,
45:05
which has, which takes like, it adds in like
45:09
three or four synonyms for every important word
45:11
because that's what the King James is doing.
45:14
It's going like, Hey, This connects to this,
45:17
but before you get there, we're going to imply
45:20
it here so that you don't miss it. We make these
45:24
connections for you. Yeah. And the problem with
45:26
that is you're building commentary into the raw
45:30
text. Yeah. So that's why it would be problematic.
45:35
Yeah, that's true. You should put it in the margins,
45:37
but don't put it in the actual text. Yeah. Yeah,
45:41
I agree. And it's not necessarily incorrect.
45:44
Although there are, it's been the Bible with
45:49
the most errors. Yes. Because of that reason.
45:52
They imply the commentary into the text and they
45:55
make it read a certain way. Yeah. I mean, so
45:57
far as like they added verses. Correct. Yeah.
46:01
Yeah. But then also we have like the Geneva Bible,
46:04
which also used unicorns. It did. Well, it used
46:07
vernicorn. And it moved the verses around. Yeah.
46:10
I wonder why that is. You know, I haven't really
46:12
ever thought about the fact that Geneva is in
46:14
Switzerland. Yeah. But like Geneva, Switzerland,
46:18
like that's something that I've been like. I
46:20
guess I have heard that. Correct. Yeah. But I'll
46:22
never think of the Puritans in America with a
46:24
Geneva Bible coming from Switzerland. And the
46:26
Swiss Army knife in their pocket. Yeah. Yeah.
46:29
I mean, probably around the same time, right?
46:31
The printing press and the Swiss Army knife.
46:33
Yeah. I think it's the same thing. Same guy.
46:35
Yeah. Mr. Swiss or Mr. Army knife. Mr. Cheese.
46:40
Mr. Cheese. That'd be more Minnesota. That came
46:46
later. Wisconsin. Mr. Swiss met Mr. Cheese. You
46:51
know, the rest is history. Blah, blah, blah.
46:55
Blah, blah, blah. Take out some holes here and
46:58
there. Oh, yeah. Oh, that's great. So there's
47:04
a couple, there's a few possibilities that people
47:08
like to put forward of like, why did the Septuagint
47:11
do this? Got it. And so one of them is a real
47:15
horned, one horned animal tradition. Okay. So
47:19
ancient Near Eastern and Greek writers had traditions
47:22
about one horned beast. For example, Tezos in
47:27
the 5th century. Tezos? I know, it's wild. You
47:30
should see how it's spelled. It sounded like
47:33
you were saying tease us. Tezos. Okay. Or like
47:36
playing around with Jesus. Yeah, it's spelled
47:38
C -T -E -S -I -A -S. Okay. And pronounced Tezos.
47:42
Okay. Tezos. Don't ask me how. Okay. Go for it.
47:46
What did Jesus say? He must have been French.
47:50
That would make sense. Some wild stuff going
47:53
on with the French. Yeah, it's true. So in the
47:55
5th century BC, he described an Indian beast
47:59
with a single horn. An Indian beast with a single
48:02
horn? Yeah, a beast from India. I'm not sure
48:04
if that's racist or not. Continue. Yikes. So
48:11
he says this in his work Indica. There are in
48:16
India wild beasts, which are as large as horses
48:23
and even larger. Their bodies are white, their
48:27
heads dark red, and their eyes dark blue. They
48:31
have a horn on the forehead. which is about a
48:35
cubit and a half in length, which is approximately
48:38
28 inches. He was using cubits? Yeah. Teases
48:40
was? Teases. Teases' preferred metric was cubits.
48:48
It was just little blocks he carried. Is that
48:52
where tease us comes from? I wonder, actually.
48:54
Yeah. Are you teasing us? Are you teasing us?
48:56
No, I swear. It was a cubit and a half. Okay,
49:02
Jesus. Okay. Okay. Blue eyes. Are you sure? No
49:07
one has blue eyes. Did you say red head? Yes.
49:11
Like the hair. Dark red. Dark red. Well, that's
49:15
problematic. Their head was. Okay, but not the
49:17
rest of their body? No. It's weird. So white
49:19
hair on the body. Red head. Dark red head. And
49:23
a white body. And a white body. And then blue
49:26
eyes. Yeah. Feels like a drawing my kid would
49:28
make. It might have been, actually. Yeah. He
49:31
uses cubits. And the horn at the base is snow
49:34
white. The tip is sharp and crimson. And the
49:38
middle part is jet black. Whoa. Pretty bonkers.
49:43
Sounds like a popsicle. A delicious one. Yes.
49:47
That's a lot of colors. Okay, so that's probably
49:50
where we get the rainbow. The rainbow, yeah.
49:52
Yeah, I think so. Because you're going, what
49:54
color were the hooves? Oh, he didn't specify.
49:57
How about the tail? He didn't tell us about that.
49:59
Just made it glitter. I'm guessing they're white.
50:01
It's just glitter and rainbows. He's like, I
50:04
don't have to tell you that, though. Okay. So,
50:06
Tesus, when was Tesus? Fifth century BC. So,
50:10
oh. Whoa. Yeah. Okay. So before the Septuagint.
50:14
Correct. Yeah. Okay. So before the Septuagint,
50:17
which was like between two and 300 BC. Yeah.
50:20
200 years before that, Tesus, where was he? He
50:25
went to India. He went to India, but where is
50:27
he from? I think he's from Greece. Okay. Also
50:31
makes sense. Yeah. So a Greek man went to India
50:33
and he saw a beast that was white bodied. Don't
50:39
know the color of the hooves. Redhead. Redhead,
50:41
dark red hair. Yeah. With blue eyes and then
50:45
a horn that started white, turned black, and
50:48
then went back red. To crimson, yeah. Okay. It's
50:51
like a real deep red. Yeah. Well, crimson would
50:55
be like a blood red. Yeah. Which is, okay. It's
50:59
crazy. These colors don't really match very well.
51:01
No. Which would make it horrifying. I guess you
51:04
could adjust the shade of them and it would make
51:06
it. Yeah. Yeah. And he's saying that the size
51:10
of horses are bigger. Okay. Which is crazy too.
51:15
But you know what that actually kind of sounds
51:17
like? It sounds like whatever this beast was
51:20
had just killed something with its spike. Which
51:23
could have been. Yeah. And then has red and black
51:26
and like running down its white body. Yeah. Which
51:30
is possible. Makes sense. Yeah. I can see that.
51:33
Yeah. But this guy's like, I don't want to get
51:36
near that. Yeah, Tiza said, no, thank you. It's
51:38
red. Did he write this back to his buddies? Yeah,
51:42
he's like, guys, don't come here. India is wild.
51:46
This is crazy. You should try the curry. It's
51:50
delicious. What year did this curry made? Actually,
51:55
that's a good question. I wonder if he was blessed
51:57
with it. Is it a good question? No, but it's
52:00
interesting. I think it is, too. I don't think
52:03
it's a good question, though. I mean, good in
52:04
regards to this, no. Fair. In regards to Curry
52:08
Talk. Fair. Maybe it was Curry on his head. Which
52:10
is our Patreon -only show. Curry Talk? Curry
52:13
Talk. Curry Talk with Stephen and Paul. Welcome.
52:15
This is our side show. Welcome to Curry Talk.
52:18
Welcome to Curry Talk. Just have hand gestures
52:22
and signals now. They're incredible. So the Septuagint.
52:29
translators, may have believed in the Re 'im,
52:32
that the Re 'im belonged to this category of
52:34
exotic animals. Okay, so an eastern wild beast.
52:37
Yeah, so that's the first possibility. Okay.
52:42
Well, it would make sense if Tezos is Greek.
52:45
Yeah. And it were the Greeks who made the Septuagint.
52:48
Right. They would have heard the lore of Teasus.
52:50
They're like, this is crazy. Yeah. It must be
52:53
this. They're going through and going, oh, they
52:54
said wild beasts. Remember what Teasus said?
52:56
Yeah. He was teasing us. Fair. So the second
53:03
possibility is the translators no longer knew
53:06
the exact animal. Okay. So by the Septuagint
53:09
period, 3rd to 2nd century BC, some ancient animals
53:14
were disappearing regionally. Linguistic knowledge
53:17
had shifted, and translators sometimes worked
53:20
from tradition rather than direct familiarity.
53:23
Which, that's normal. It's like, people don't
53:27
realize they're killing narwhals. Yeah. And that
53:32
there are not enough narwhals to keep killing
53:35
them for their... To repopulate, yeah. For their...
53:39
How did I bring up narwhals? Because they look
53:43
very similar, too. They got this... The spindly
53:45
horn. They're a water corn. Yeah, a water corn.
53:50
What about the candy corn? A mono water beast.
53:53
Whatever happened to the candy corn? No one can
53:57
kill those. The candy corn kind of looks like
54:00
the horn he described. Actually, that is true.
54:03
It's got kind of the right color. Yeah, a little
54:05
bit. Yeah, close. But, okay, yeah. Yeah. Well,
54:10
you would just see, like, you would see animals
54:13
become extinct because people would kill them
54:16
off. Right. And not realize they're doing it.
54:18
And they're like, oops. Yeah, yeah. No more.
54:20
Okay, so that makes sense. Yeah, and so the term
54:23
minoceros could have been the closest conceptual
54:28
word that they had to pick from. Got it, okay.
54:31
So they're like, this is, like, they're both
54:34
crazy animals, so here you go. So the description
54:37
from... introduces this characteristic name,
54:43
right? It's kind of the beginning of the etymology
54:47
of it. I believe he was the first one. Or at
54:52
least it gives us a connection in the etymology
54:55
to a Greek speaking person. Yeah, because we
54:58
actually see several writers talk about this
55:03
creature that they called the monochorus. In
55:06
that same era? Around the same time, yeah. Got
55:10
it. And so for that, that's just kind of the
55:12
earliest known written that we have using that
55:14
word. Yeah. Or like those kinds of descriptions.
55:18
Okay. And so, yeah. And so the second idea and
55:24
why they picked that is they didn't actually
55:26
know what Raim was specifically referring to
55:31
creature -wise. Okay. And they're just like,
55:33
well, this is a crazy animal that we know today.
55:35
Yeah. And so the third one is a visual interpretation.
55:42
And some scholars propose that ancient artistic
55:45
depictions of bulls in profile where only one
55:49
horn is visible contributed to wand horn descriptions.
55:52
Again, that's like a sidestep. And this is like
55:54
a hugely speculative version and not many people
55:58
even hold to it. That goes back to the like,
56:00
well, it could be wild beasts because there are
56:05
beasts. Yeah. Or it's wild ox because ox exists.
56:09
Right. But, okay. Yeah, fair. Yeah, it's interesting.
56:13
It's an adjacent idea. Yeah, it doesn't really
56:15
make sense. And so the fourth one is that it's
56:18
a rhinoceros. Oh. And so the rhinoceros was known
56:23
in the ancient world through trade military campaigns
56:26
and traveler reports. And the descriptions have
56:30
some overlap with the imagery the Bible gives
56:33
us. However, Greek... has a word for rhinoceros
56:37
and they didn't use that word fair yeah because
56:41
if you're thinking about um like it's a rhinos
56:44
rhinoceri yeah are typically gray right and yeah
56:51
so it could have been a rhinoceri yeah a rhinoceros
56:55
that um rhinoceroses right i think rhinoceri
57:00
is right I don't think it is. It sounds right.
57:03
I think it's a rhinoceros. Rhinoceros. A singular
57:07
rhinoceros. Oh, yeah, that's just rhinoceros.
57:09
Yeah. Or rhino. Oh, yeah, fair. You're going
57:14
to take the easy way out. Yeah, rhinoceri is
57:17
nothing. I thought that was more than one. I
57:21
actually have no clue what the plural is. Oh,
57:22
maybe. But anyways, the rhinoceros does have
57:28
a single horn. But on his nose. He also has a
57:30
smaller second one. Yeah, that's true. And that's
57:33
where it's like, maybe they didn't know it was
57:35
there. But also, like, how did, like, the color
57:37
thing didn't make sense. Yeah. I mean, to be
57:40
fair, the Bible doesn't describe color. No, I'm
57:42
talking about... Or if we take old Teasus. Teasus,
57:47
yeah. Yeah. I was like, how do I say his name
57:49
again? And so... Let's see. Modern translators,
57:55
I have a lot of notes in here, usually reject
57:58
unicorn because in modern English, that word
58:02
is overwhelmingly associated with mythical horse
58:04
-like creatures. So they prioritize probable
58:07
zoological reference over preserving ancient
58:10
translation tradition. And so... Yeah, so the
58:16
world becomes less mythical. Yeah. And so they
58:19
flatten it out. And so, I mean, it is interesting
58:22
to give them credit on that. And this is kind
58:25
of like, to say it now, there's kind of like,
58:27
from where I'm at, there's kind of like two conclusions
58:30
to this. Yeah, okay. And based on the archaeological
58:34
evidence and other writings and the word cognates
58:38
that they found, it's like, okay, it does seem
58:41
like the original Hebrew was referring to a wild
58:45
ox or an oryx. Okay. I think it was the specific.
58:48
Yeah. Because we do have a lot of depictions
58:50
they've uncovered archaeologically that it's
58:53
like, oh yeah, this is probably what they were
58:55
talking about. That makes sense. And so that's
58:58
where modern translators are like, that's the
59:00
most likely from everything we found in ancient
59:03
Israel and that surrounding area. Yeah. And so
59:07
this is probably what Israel is talking about.
59:09
But those animals had almost gone extinct by
59:13
the time the Septuagint would have been translated.
59:16
And so they would actually not really even know
59:18
what that animal was. I see what you're saying.
59:20
So like because of migrations, because of people
59:23
killing off certain species and different things
59:25
like that, by the time we actually get to the
59:27
Septuagint, the original animal that they're
59:30
referring to is not as prevalent as it was when
59:34
it was originally written. Yeah. That makes perfect
59:36
sense. Yeah. The other thing, if I can throw
59:38
a wrinkle in this whole thing. Yeah, please.
59:40
Because I think locationally, you keep going
59:43
to like, ancient israel yeah the problem with
59:47
that is when numbers is written they're true
59:51
you know what i mean yeah so like when we first
59:54
see it in deuteronomy i say i mean like this
59:56
area the near east yeah well well so it's not
59:59
that when deuteronomy is written down or numbers
1:00:01
is written down that they're not in the promised
1:00:03
land right um well fair so i actually know they
1:00:09
have they have to if we attribute those writings
1:00:12
to moses as author then they necessarily are
1:00:15
not in the promised land correct yeah so they're
1:00:18
they are in the judean desert or outside of it
1:00:22
in the jordan region and just all along that
1:00:24
area so if that's true then where they just came
1:00:29
from was egypt yeah and egypt is very close to
1:00:33
alexandria yeah true so technically the like
1:00:37
the landscape of beasts that are understood when
1:00:42
this is written first in Deuteronomy and Numbers,
1:00:45
would be the landscape of and surrounding areas
1:00:49
of Northern Africa. Yeah. So really, if we're
1:00:55
looking at what beast are they talking about
1:00:57
in Deuteronomy, you'd probably be better to look
1:01:00
at the region of North Africa, which is where
1:01:03
the Septuagint is translated. Yeah, that's fair.
1:01:05
Or the kind of western or eastern plains of like...
1:01:11
persia and uh modern day iraq and iran and yeah
1:01:16
ancient mesopotamia really that makes sense because
1:01:19
job right so job is also not in israel right
1:01:24
he's more so in the mesopotamian region yeah
1:01:27
so yeah so i mean and that's part of what makes
1:01:31
it a little bit interesting too it is it's like
1:01:34
we really don't know that means that they're
1:01:36
more east right and not only are they more east
1:01:40
but When we hear about this from Nisus. Tisus.
1:01:45
Tisus. I'm just going to replace the first letter
1:01:51
with a bunch of different letters. Tisus. He's
1:01:56
from Greece, which is further west. Yeah. So
1:02:00
he's going to India, which is a little bit closer
1:02:04
to where Moses and then where Job would have
1:02:07
been. He's coming back on. Yeah. So like in the
1:02:13
eastern region. I mean, so we're really talking
1:02:16
about a beast that is pushed out that way. It's
1:02:20
more eastern than Israel. Yeah. It's even more
1:02:23
eastern than northern Egypt, but it would be
1:02:27
more representative of that area. Yeah. So it
1:02:31
kind of pushes it all together. Which, I mean,
1:02:33
could lean into, it really is talking about the
1:02:36
unicorn. And the unicorn just happened to die
1:02:38
off by the time. Right. we get to second, third
1:02:41
century BC. Which I mean, I'd be hunting those
1:02:43
things like crazy. But also if they're in India.
1:02:46
They have a magic corn. Yeah, fair. No, I'm kidding.
1:02:49
Oh no, they would have had to die off by the
1:02:52
Vulgate, right? I mean, they still used unicornis.
1:02:57
That's right. Yeah. And so does the Geneva Bible
1:02:59
later. So I guess by like today, they would have
1:03:01
to die off. Yeah. Or by the founding of Scotland.
1:03:06
Yeah. Yeah. That's kind of interesting. Or whenever
1:03:08
they picked their animal. So for me, it's like,
1:03:13
okay, I think there's still some more like, to
1:03:15
lead this idea some more credence, to lend it
1:03:19
more credence, let's look at some more historical
1:03:21
cues. Yeah, yeah. And so we have, oh man, these
1:03:27
Greek names. Greek names are tough. Megathenes.
1:03:31
Okay. We'll go with that. And he's forward through
1:03:35
third century BC. Okay. And so he traveled in
1:03:39
India and also described exotic animals. Fragments
1:03:43
of his writings describe strange horned beasts,
1:03:46
enormous wild animals, and creatures unfamiliar
1:03:49
to Greeks. And he helped cement the idea that
1:03:53
India was home to bizarre animals. Okay. And
1:03:56
then we have Pliny the Elder, who's first century
1:03:59
AD. Okay. And he describes a creature called
1:04:02
the Monoceros in Book 8, Chapter 31 of his Naturalis
1:04:08
Historia. And he says, but that the fiercest
1:04:13
animal is the Monoceros, which we would say unicorn,
1:04:17
which in the rest of the body resembles a horse,
1:04:20
but in the head a stag, in the feet an elephant,
1:04:24
and in the tail a boar. What? And has a deep
1:04:28
bellow and a single black horn three feet long
1:04:31
projecting from the middle of the forehead. Is
1:04:34
this not Ezekiel? No. Okay. They say that this
1:04:37
is an impossible to capture. This animal is impossible
1:04:39
to capture, to capture him alive. So this is
1:04:43
like a Bigfoot. Which is kind of crazy. Sounds
1:04:47
like a, yeah, it sounds like a, yeah, exactly.
1:04:50
It sounds like a cryptid. It sounds like a interdimensional
1:04:53
being or. and abomination that's still around.
1:05:00
Yeah, and it's interesting because this is where
1:05:02
we have some of that contextual clue with Scripture
1:05:05
is because the idea that they're impossible to
1:05:08
capture them alive, it sounds similar to the
1:05:11
imagery in Job that we read. Well, and to be
1:05:15
fair, in modern use, we would call someone that's
1:05:19
hard to nail down or hard to get a hold of or
1:05:21
unique in their own way that's hard to capture.
1:05:25
A unicorn. Yes, that's true. So it's inherent
1:05:29
in the concept of what a unicorn is. Right, yeah.
1:05:34
That's interesting. Which could have been just
1:05:36
traditionally passed down, which actually it
1:05:38
was. Yeah, it would have been, yeah, yeah. Yeah,
1:05:40
because that idea stretched all the way into
1:05:42
the medieval age. Right. And threw on. And so
1:05:46
what's interesting about this with Pliny the
1:05:48
Elder, though, is, where did I, I lost it. Yeah,
1:05:57
it's important to note that he didn't travel
1:05:59
to India himself. Okay. Instead, he compiled
1:06:02
his description from the lost texts of ancient
1:06:05
Greek historians and ambassadors, Megathenes
1:06:08
being his primary source for the Monoceros. Which
1:06:11
was 5th century? Yeah. Okay. Around the same
1:06:15
time as... 3rd and 4th century BC. Okay, so just
1:06:19
after. And so he was 1st century AD. Yeah, just
1:06:23
after Tesus. Which is pretty interesting. It
1:06:26
is. It means that there's a tradition being handed
1:06:28
down from a couple of generations. And what's
1:06:30
also interesting about that is how they're talking
1:06:32
about it. Because, I mean, his book that Pliny
1:06:36
writes is Naturalis Historia, which is just...
1:06:40
History of natural life. Yeah. And so it's like,
1:06:43
oh, so he's talking about these like they are
1:06:46
legitimate, real things. Yeah, he would be like...
1:06:49
He's writing a science book, basically. Yeah,
1:06:51
he's logging animals. Yeah. Interesting. Interesting.
1:06:57
Interesting. I love that. And then we have Herodotus,
1:07:03
who's 5th century BC. Okay. He also opens the
1:07:06
idea up that distant regions contain extraordinary
1:07:09
animals beyond ordinary Mediterranean experience.
1:07:13
So while he does not give a specific one horn
1:07:16
monochorus description, he does describe bizarre
1:07:20
animals like flying serpents, gold dinging ants,
1:07:23
strange horned animals, and creatures difficult
1:07:26
to classify. Yeah, he's got some wild stuff.
1:07:30
We still kind of do that now, though. What do
1:07:33
you mean? That's not out of the realm of modern
1:07:36
zoology. Oh, yeah. Like all of those things,
1:07:41
you know what I mean? We're just like, that's
1:07:43
weird. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, no, that is true.
1:07:45
Maybe flying serpents we don't talk about as
1:07:47
much. Yeah. That one we don't talk about too
1:07:50
much. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But fair. Thankfully,
1:07:53
we don't talk about that. Yeah. And so in the
1:07:58
ancient world, the unicorn is treated as a real
1:08:00
zoological creature. And this does shift as early
1:08:05
as 200 to 500 AD when it is used symbolically
1:08:09
in texts like Physiologus. Sure. Written by an
1:08:15
unknown author in Alexandria. I have no clue
1:08:17
how to pronounce that. Got it. But in Alexandria.
1:08:20
Yes. Which is important. And so this book describes
1:08:23
the unicorn as an allegory for Christ, the incarnation,
1:08:26
and the Virgin Mary. Okay. And so the real foothold,
1:08:30
though, took place. in medieval bestiaries between
1:08:34
500 to 1300 AD. And bestiaries were illustrated
1:08:40
books combining animals, moral lessons, theology,
1:08:43
folklore, and symbolic teaching. And the unicorn
1:08:46
became one of the most popular creatures in these
1:08:49
texts. And then the image... The imagery shifted
1:08:54
again post -medieval during the Renaissance,
1:08:56
then Victorian Romanticism, and then modern fantasy
1:09:00
literature. And so by the 19th century, the unicorn
1:09:04
was increasingly detached from theology, ancient
1:09:07
zoology, and biblical interpretation, and it
1:09:10
became a fantasy archetype. Okay. So it moved
1:09:14
out of the realm of things that people have observed
1:09:17
in natural life. Yeah. Became extinct and then
1:09:21
now it's mystical. Yeah, because it started to
1:09:23
be used more symbolically. Okay. And people were
1:09:26
like, oh, I like that idea. Let's do more with
1:09:28
it. And then they're like, oh, that's cool. Let's
1:09:30
do more with it. Yeah. And that makes sense too,
1:09:33
where it's just like, it's just an animal that
1:09:35
did exist. It's not as magical as we think about
1:09:38
it now. Right. But it was a wild beast. It was
1:09:44
not. Yeah. And I think that's the important part
1:09:46
with it too is, Even how it's talked about in
1:09:49
these original records that we have of its description,
1:09:53
they're not like, oh, yeah, and it can create
1:09:55
rainbows. Right, right, right. It's just like,
1:09:57
no, this is an insane beast that is bizarre.
1:09:59
To be fair, we don't know what color the tail
1:10:01
is. That's true. So come up with your own conclusion.
1:10:05
That could be anything. It's true. And so it
1:10:08
does make sense that our imaginations would kind
1:10:12
of run with it. Yeah. Because it's like, okay,
1:10:14
here's something. I mean, so even taking like
1:10:17
the mountain bat gorilla. Okay. Who was, I believe
1:10:21
it was that one, was considered a cryptid at
1:10:23
one point. Because we had not yet discovered
1:10:25
it. Right, right, right. It was only people that
1:10:27
were like, hey, I just saw something crazy. Yeah,
1:10:29
it was elusive, yeah. And people came up with
1:10:32
these ideas of what it could be. Right. Until
1:10:34
we found it and we're like, no, it's just a crazy,
1:10:36
awesome gorilla. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. That
1:10:38
makes sense. And so I think that that's kind
1:10:41
of the idea of what happened here. It's something
1:10:42
that you're not going to run into. Yeah. And
1:10:44
if you do, you're going to wish you hadn't. Like
1:10:46
a grizzly bear. Sure, yeah. Don't want to run
1:10:48
into one. Makes sense. Yeah, me neither. Or even
1:10:50
a polar bear, even worse. Yeah, fair. You know
1:10:53
polar bear's skin is black? I heard that, yeah.
1:10:56
That's weird. And it's like their fur is hollow.
1:11:00
Hollow? It's because it helps like insulate better
1:11:02
or something. That's wild. It's kind of crazy,
1:11:05
yeah. Fair. But they're monsters for sure. So
1:11:08
if you shaved a polar bear, it would be black.
1:11:10
That's crazy. It'd be a panda bear. What? Are
1:11:15
polar bears just shaved panda bears? You could
1:11:18
shave a polar bear in the form of a panda bear.
1:11:25
That's what they're doing. A panda bear? Yes.
1:11:28
Pandas are bears. Yes. Just like zebras are horses.
1:11:32
Yeah, just wild. Weird. Weird. The same thing.
1:11:36
You could paint, like if a horse was white and
1:11:39
its skin was black. Then you could shave a horse
1:11:43
to look like a zebra. Right, yeah. Yeah, exactly.
1:11:49
Okay, so. And so I think that's where, what's
1:11:51
interesting is because I think in modern scholars
1:11:55
terms, they really lean into the, it's a wild
1:11:58
ox idea. Got it. And there's a lot of backing
1:12:01
behind it where it's like, okay, I can see why
1:12:04
you came to that conclusion. Yeah. And it's obviously
1:12:06
the safest conclusion to come to. Right, right,
1:12:08
right. But then it's like, yeah, but also. we
1:12:11
have a tradition where they didn't translate
1:12:13
it as a wild ox. Yes. But what's interesting
1:12:16
about it is you can be like, oh, they just made
1:12:18
a mistake or whatever. It's like maybe they weren't
1:12:21
talking about the same thing that the original
1:12:22
Hebrews intended. Right, because the animal doesn't
1:12:26
exist anymore. Right. But at the same time, they're
1:12:29
talking about another animal that we consider
1:12:31
to be fairytale now. Yes. But was actually, it
1:12:34
looks like it could have been real. Yeah. And
1:12:37
so that's where it's like, it's kind of an interesting
1:12:39
twist in this topic. It is. Where it's like,
1:12:42
oh, why does the King James use unicorn? Right.
1:12:48
It's like, well, because that's what the Septuagint
1:12:50
did and unicorns they believed were real. Yes.
1:12:54
And it's like, well, why do modern scholars translate
1:12:56
it wild ox? And it's like, well, because when
1:12:59
they look back, they see that the ancient Hebrews
1:13:01
were probably surrounded by these wild oxes.
1:13:04
Yeah, or something that was more adjacent to
1:13:07
a wild ox. Yeah. They may even have looked back
1:13:09
and been like, we don't have this animal. Yeah.
1:13:13
But I think we have something like it. Let's
1:13:17
look back and read what Teas has talked about.
1:13:19
Right. Well, and at the same time, it's like
1:13:21
the descriptions that we have of the monocaris,
1:13:24
there's some range in how it's described. Yeah.
1:13:27
Some people get a little bit more specific. It's
1:13:29
like... It really could have just been that's
1:13:31
what they're talking about, but it's so monstrous.
1:13:33
They're like, I don't know what that is. Yeah,
1:13:35
yeah. I mean, that's even what Herodotus talks
1:13:38
about. He's like, to our minds in his time, he's
1:13:42
like, I don't even know what to do with these
1:13:43
things. Yeah, that's fair. Some of the creatures
1:13:45
that he witnessed, he's like, yeah, I don't even
1:13:47
know how to categorize them. Yeah. And it could
1:13:50
very well be that the... Ancient, this is all
1:13:52
speculation. It very well could have been the
1:13:55
writers in Hebrew were like, I don't know what
1:13:57
that is, but maybe it's a cow. Yeah, maybe it's
1:14:01
a cow. It's big like one. Yeah, fair. That's
1:14:05
interesting. So, unicorns. Yeah. Something like
1:14:11
it must have existed at some point, but probably
1:14:14
not as mystical and magical as we thought. Correct,
1:14:17
yeah. It just... Because it was an elusive wild
1:14:20
beast, it became a magical idea. Yeah. Which
1:14:25
then transformed into fairy tales. Right. But
1:14:30
the beast that is listed in the Septuagint, the
1:14:35
Vulgate, and the King James is not the magical
1:14:39
version. Correct. But a tangible wild beast that
1:14:43
probably did look something like the magical
1:14:46
unicorn that we know today. Yeah. Maybe it looked
1:14:49
a little bit more like a rhinoceros. Could be.
1:14:52
That one guy said it has the feet of an elephant.
1:14:55
Yeah. That's pretty wild. Kind of wild. So did
1:14:58
unicorns exist and are they in the Bible? Yes.
1:15:03
Yeah. Three, two, one.