Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Did he really? Convicted pedophile claims he killed little JonBenet Ramsey!

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Did he really? Convicted pedophile claims he killed little JonBenet Ramsey! · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

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Speaker 1: Quell radio dot com. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. We
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Speaker 1: are kidnap all right? Please plain to me what's going on?
1:14
Speaker 1: Are you? Oh? My god? Please, I'm okay, the show,
1:21
Speaker 1: We're okay. Do you know how long she'd think? I
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Speaker 1: don't please? We just got up and here, Oh my god. Please.
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Speaker 1: Twenty two years after the little pageant princess was found
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Speaker 1: strangled to death in her parents' basement, the murder of
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Speaker 1: John Bennet Ramsey remains one of America's greatest unsolved mysteries.
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Speaker 1: But now we're learning yet another man claims that he
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Speaker 1: committed the gruesome crime. In a series of letters exclusively
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Speaker 1: obtained by Daily Mail TV, convicted pedophile Gary Oliva says
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Speaker 1: he killed the six year old andis this terrifying phone call?
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Speaker 1: He's screaming, I heard a little girl. It was shocked.
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Speaker 1: It was pure shock. Michael Vale recalls the early morning
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Speaker 1: phone call he received from his former high school pal
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Speaker 1: Gary Oliva. It was December twenty six, nineteen ninety six.
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Speaker 1: At the time, Oliva lived blocks from the Ramsey home
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Speaker 1: in Boulder, Colorado. That was the same day Patsy Ramsey
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Speaker 1: would make her own frantic call to nine one one,
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Speaker 1: notifying authorities that her precious little girl was missing. About
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Speaker 1: eight hours later, John Bennet's body was discovered inside a
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Speaker 1: locked room in the basement at six years old, John
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Speaker 1: Bennet had already become a padget princess, and the quest
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Speaker 1: of finder killer garnered international attention to the killer has
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Speaker 1: been our position now two decades later, Vale says he
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Speaker 1: has a series of disturbing letters from convicted pedophial Gary
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Speaker 1: Oliva that he believes may solve the mystery of John
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Speaker 1: Benay's death once and for all. That was our friend
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Speaker 1: Jesse Palmer at Daily Mail reporting it. In the background,
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Speaker 1: you could hear John Benay singing, and snippets of her
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Speaker 1: mother or Patsy Ramsey's desperate nine one one call or
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Speaker 1: was it? Questions still lingering as to who killed the
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Speaker 1: pageant princess, the beautiful little girl, John Benet. But it's
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Speaker 1: all hit the headlines again when a convicted pedophile already
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Speaker 1: behind bars, Gary Oliva, said I did it. But do
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Speaker 1: I believe him? With me right now? An all star panel.
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Speaker 1: Troy Slayton, renowned LA defense lawyer, director of the Cold
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Speaker 1: Case Research Institute and no stranger to a crime Saint.
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Speaker 1: Cheryl McCollum, Bobby Brown, Colorado private investigator, intimately familiar with
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Speaker 1: this case, medical AMiner and author of homicide investigation field guide.
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Speaker 1: We're very fortunate to have doctor Michelle Duprie with us
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Speaker 1: today and joining me right now. Crime online investigative reporter,
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Speaker 1: author of Beautiful Life, The CSI behind Casey Anthony Trial.
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Speaker 1: Robin Wilansky. Robin, who is Gary Oliva? And why now
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Speaker 1: does he jump up and say, oh, yeah, I killed
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Speaker 1: John Benet Nancy. Gary Oliva was a guy who lived
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Speaker 1: in the area and police had been looking at him.
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Speaker 1: He was a guy who was obsessed with little John
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Speaker 1: Benet and how beautiful she was and in her little
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Speaker 1: outfits with her teased hair. I mean, this was a
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Speaker 1: four or five year old girl who looked like, hey, hey, hey, hey,
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Speaker 1: hey hey, what's from a fluffy outfits and teased hair. Well,
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Speaker 1: apparently he was very into her look and she really
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Speaker 1: looked like an adult. And I think that that's why
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Speaker 1: we've been talking about this case for so many years.
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Speaker 1: When those little videos came out of her and her
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Speaker 1: little pageant costumes, she looked so mature. Well, anyway, this
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Speaker 1: guy had hundreds of pictures of her, hundreds of pictures
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Speaker 1: of her, you know what, as weird as it may be, weird,
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Speaker 1: but true to Bobby Brown, Colorado private investigator. They're sadly
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Speaker 1: are probably thousands of creepy, lonely guys across the country
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Speaker 1: that have hundreds of pictures of John bin A Ramsey.
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Speaker 1: I'm sorry to have to report that, but he's I mean,
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Speaker 1: you know, they're a dime a dozen pedophiles with obsessions
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Speaker 1: on particular little girls, I mean, and John benay Is
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Speaker 1: turned out to be fodder for pedophiles all across the country.
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Speaker 1: How many millions of times do you think Bobby Brown
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Speaker 1: videos of her dancing and singing at the pageants completely
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Speaker 1: innocently have been exchanged. That's their stock in trade. That's
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Speaker 1: what they live for us to get another video of
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Speaker 1: a little girl. That's that's totally true. And it's been
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Speaker 1: shown a god doing those tens and tens of thousands
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Speaker 1: of times. You asked, who believes I believe that? Uh
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Speaker 1: that you know, and and and when we started, it's
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Speaker 1: like it almost sounded like that Gary e'll leevis just
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Speaker 1: now had this idea, Well, I'm going to confess to
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Speaker 1: John Benett. He has confessed two three different times over
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Speaker 1: the years, and uh, he actually became a suspect. I
6:52
Speaker 1: was working at that time. I was working on a
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Speaker 1: private team with Lusement, Charlie he Peas and I and
7:05
Speaker 1: one morning Luke Smith asked me to meet with him
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Speaker 1: at a restaurant that we always met at. I did
7:12
Speaker 1: was in September of two thousand and seven, and at
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Speaker 1: that time lou explained to me, this is when the
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Speaker 1: name Gary Oliva became, you know, part of my Spark
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Speaker 1: money answers with me as a very well known Colorado
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Speaker 1: private investigator, Bobby Brown, very familiar with the John Banay investigation.
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Speaker 1: So if this guy Gary Oliva raises his hand and
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Speaker 1: said I killed John Benay, he might as well get
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Speaker 1: in line. Listen. I've contact to the Ramsey family, but
7:51
Speaker 1: especially before Patricia passed away, and I can paid to
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Speaker 1: her many things, among them that I am so very
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Speaker 1: sorry for what happened to Jean Manet. And it's very
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Speaker 1: important for me that everyone knows that I love for
8:11
Speaker 1: very much and that her death was unintentional and it
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Speaker 1: was an accident. And um I made several efforts to
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Speaker 1: communicate with Patricia before she passed away, and I my
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Speaker 1: understanding that that she did read my letters and she
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Speaker 1: was aware of me before she passed away. What happened
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Speaker 1: in the basement. Um, that's it would take several hours
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Speaker 1: to describe it, to describe that if you could be brief. Uh,
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Speaker 1: there's no way that I could be brief about There's
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Speaker 1: no way I can remember about it. But it's it's
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Speaker 1: it's a very involved um series of apens would require
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Speaker 1: a lot of time, and I, uh, I can't. I
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Speaker 1: wouldn't want to to say something briefly about it because
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Speaker 1: if you would not. First of all, it's very painful
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Speaker 1: for me to talk about the only thing that I
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Speaker 1: can say is, it's not what it seems to be everyway.
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Speaker 1: It's not people, not at all what it seems an
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Speaker 1: absolutely not. Cheryl McCollum, director of the Cold Case Research Institute.
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Speaker 1: You've been on every kind of crime scene known to man.
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Speaker 1: In fact, you claim that's where we first met. I
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Speaker 1: claim we met in court. But okay, I guess two
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Speaker 1: honest people can disagree. So Cheryl McCollum, please did you
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Speaker 1: hear him say, oh, this can't be quick, because my
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Speaker 1: story of how I accidentally killed John Benny Ramsey needs
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Speaker 1: a lot of time, translation, a lot of attention on
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Speaker 1: me in front of the microphone, in front of the camera,
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Speaker 1: with everybody clicking their their photos. What a load of BS? Now, Cheryl,
10:04
Speaker 1: you are a crime scene investigator. Extraordinary, Now that's a legal, technical,
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Speaker 1: legal term, load of b asked or I need to
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Speaker 1: explain that to you. Let me tell you it ain't Latin. No,
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Speaker 1: it is a load of BS. And I'll tell you
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Speaker 1: I'm going to explain why it's a load of BS.
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Speaker 1: I have been on thousands of crime scenes and anthy
10:24
Speaker 1: and when something is an accident, that scene can absolutely
10:28
Speaker 1: be staged. But I have not seen where a stranger
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Speaker 1: makes an accident looks worse. So here's what he wants
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Speaker 1: us to believe. Johnny slipped and hit her head and died.
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Speaker 1: So he doesn't admit to killing her. He said she flipped.
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Speaker 1: He doesn't talk about the strangulation. He doesn't talk about
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Speaker 1: the sexual assault. He doesn't talk about whether or not
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Speaker 1: there was a taser involved with this child. He doesn't
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Speaker 1: talk about anything but an accident. It was an accident
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Speaker 1: breaking into the house. It wasn't an accident, you know,
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Speaker 1: taking her from her bedroom on the third floor and
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Speaker 1: finding a lost room in a basement and a house
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Speaker 1: she's supposedly never been in. How in the world did
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Speaker 1: this man write a three page ransom note? Asked her.
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Speaker 1: She accidentally dies, so he ain't hurry to get out
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Speaker 1: of that house, which is also croup, but he stays
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Speaker 1: there and writes this ransom note. And he just happens
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Speaker 1: to be ether to write exactly like her mama, to
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Speaker 1: the point that FBI can't rule the mama out, which
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Speaker 1: is another reason I do not believe Gary Oliva, and
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Speaker 1: I didn't believe John Mark Carr, also known as Captain
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Speaker 1: Underpants at the time. I can't recall why, but I
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Speaker 1: think both of them are lying and capitalizing on the
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Speaker 1: death of a little girl. John Vane completely changed me
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Speaker 1: and removed all evil from me. Just one look at
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Speaker 1: her beautiful face, her glowing, beautiful skin, and her divine
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Speaker 1: God body. I lit her slip and her head bashed
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Speaker 1: in half, and I watched her die. It was an accident.
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Speaker 1: I believe in my heart of hearts that these are
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Speaker 1: confessional letters. He told me that if he had the chance,
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Speaker 1: he would have eaten John Benet Oliva also made these
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Speaker 1: chilling drawings of the kindergartener. The fifty four year old
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Speaker 1: has a history of sexually abusing miners. He's currently serving
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Speaker 1: a ten year sentence in Colorado for possessing child pornography.
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Speaker 1: Oliva isn't the first to confess to killing little John Bennet.
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Speaker 1: In two thousand and six, John Mark Carr confessed to
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Speaker 1: her murder Die accidentally, Carr, who was cleared of all charges.
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Speaker 1: As for Oliva, although he has confessed to the crime,
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Speaker 1: investigators are not convinced he did it. Oliva is eligible
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Speaker 1: for parole in twenty twenty, but Vale, a writer and
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Speaker 1: publicist who lives in California, says his former friend needs
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Speaker 1: to stay behind bars. The day he walks free is
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Speaker 1: the day that I will be terrified for every child
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Speaker 1: within hundreds of miles of him, because he is not
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Speaker 1: safe to be out of society. The police department in Boulder,
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Speaker 1: Colorado has come under heavy criticism for not bringing John
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Speaker 1: Benet's killer to justice, even admitting that crime scene evidence
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Speaker 1: may have been mishandled. You're hearing our friend Jesse Palmer
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Speaker 1: at Delhi Mail TV and part of this guy, Gary
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Speaker 1: Oliva's letter being read about this little girl's god body
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Speaker 1: and her beauty and her purity, later saying he wanted
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Speaker 1: to eat her. Okay, twenty twenty, well, that's certainly a
13:36
Speaker 1: year we can all look forward to the year that
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Speaker 1: this guy will make parole. Troice Layton joining me along
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Speaker 1: with Cheryl McCollum, Bobby Brown, doctor Michelle Dupree, and Robin Willinsky. Troy,
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Speaker 1: you're the famous LA defense attorney. Why with this guy,
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Speaker 1: Gary Eliva festering behind bars make this confession because he
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Speaker 1: won attention, Because just like the other people who have
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Speaker 1: confessed to this crime but proved to not be the murderer,
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Speaker 1: done it for exactly what you said, they want, they're
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Speaker 1: five minutes of fame. Now, thank goodness, there's an illegal
14:18
Speaker 1: principle just because someone confesses to a crime doesn't allow
14:23
Speaker 1: them to be prosecuted unless there's other evidence that they
14:27
Speaker 1: committed the crime. And thank goodness for that rule. You're right,
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Speaker 1: Troice Layton, You're absolutely right. The law is throughout every jurisdiction,
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Speaker 1: and this has been taken all the way to the
14:39
Speaker 1: US Supreme Court, and that is why it's a uniform
14:42
Speaker 1: and every jurisdiction. You know, violent crimes are usually prosecuted
14:47
Speaker 1: by the states, and we've got fifty of them. You'd
14:49
Speaker 1: think there'd be fifty different sets of rules. There are
14:52
Speaker 1: not they may differ in some ways, but many state opinions, decisions,
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Speaker 1: and criminal cod have been taken all the way to
15:01
Speaker 1: the US Supreme Court. The Supremes make a decision and
15:04
Speaker 1: then all the other states fall into line with that.
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Speaker 1: Now he's right, Royce Layton is right. You cannot prosecute
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Speaker 1: someone based on their confession alone. There has to be
15:18
Speaker 1: corroborating evidence, Thank the Lord. So, Robin Willinski, let me
15:25
Speaker 1: ask you this, what do we know about the physical
15:29
Speaker 1: evidence opposing or supporting this freak Gary Oliva's confession he
15:35
Speaker 1: killed John Benet? Well, Nancy, there is not a DNA link.
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Speaker 1: From what I understand, there was DNA in John Benet's
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Speaker 1: underwear to this day that has never been identified. Every year,
15:48
Speaker 1: to my understanding, the FBI crime lab in Virginia runs
15:53
Speaker 1: that sample over and over and over again more than
15:57
Speaker 1: twenty years to this day. Nancy ever has been identified.
16:01
Speaker 1: And it's interesting, and you know this because you have kids.
16:04
Speaker 1: If you go to a store or a Target of
16:07
Speaker 1: Walmart wherever, and you go to buy underwear that's just
16:11
Speaker 1: hanging on a little hanger, that's not in a plastic wrap,
16:14
Speaker 1: and someone if she had on, for example, new underpants,
16:17
Speaker 1: and someone would have touched that in a store, or
16:20
Speaker 1: the lady who man or someone who's checking you out
16:23
Speaker 1: at the counter touches that. They still don't know where
16:26
Speaker 1: that DNA is. And Gary Oliva does not match that
16:29
Speaker 1: DNA sample. Well, I mean, Cheryl Wia call them. You
16:32
Speaker 1: and I both are raising a boy and a girl.
16:34
Speaker 1: A million times. I've been the one the mom and
16:37
Speaker 1: I hate that mom sitting in the floor of Target
16:40
Speaker 1: or wherever, and I take the underwear out of the pack.
16:46
Speaker 1: I know it's also neatly package, and I take it out.
16:51
Speaker 1: I try not to destroy the package, and I hold
16:52
Speaker 1: it up and to Lucy's shot in horror, I hold
16:56
Speaker 1: it up to her as she's standing there in her clothes,
16:58
Speaker 1: going mom to see, okay, is this gonna fit her?
17:02
Speaker 1: So I've handled it. You know, I may have on lotion,
17:07
Speaker 1: I may have just washed my hands. Whatever the minute
17:11
Speaker 1: amount of DNA on John Benet's underwear, What if anything
17:15
Speaker 1: does that mean? Except one thing, we know it's not
17:17
Speaker 1: Gary Oliva's. What else do we know about that also
17:19
Speaker 1: doesn't match anybody in her family. So again, it could
17:23
Speaker 1: very well come from the person that was examining the
17:26
Speaker 1: underwear before it left the factory. Somebody could have sneezed,
17:29
Speaker 1: They could have been sweating, who knows, We don't know.
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Speaker 1: That's the whole point. But it doesn't match this guy
17:36
Speaker 1: and the other thing that falls short with his story, Nancy.
17:40
Speaker 1: He wants us to believe that he stopped and fed
17:42
Speaker 1: the child pineapple. He wants us to believe that he's
17:45
Speaker 1: spent all this time looking for a legal pad and
17:47
Speaker 1: looking for a pen and writing his three page ransom
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Speaker 1: note and just walking all over the house instead of
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Speaker 1: getting the hell out of there because he just killed
17:55
Speaker 1: the child. None of this makes sense. He just happened
17:59
Speaker 1: to know John's bonus of one hundred and eighteen thousand dollars.
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Speaker 1: He just happened to know about this lost room. None
18:06
Speaker 1: of this makes any sense. And here's the biggest thing
18:09
Speaker 1: for me. In the autopsy, they are very clear to
18:13
Speaker 1: point out that John Banet had chronic vaginal injuries that
18:18
Speaker 1: to me does not suggest a stranger at all. But
18:21
Speaker 1: does it suggest And again let me point out that
18:24
Speaker 1: the brother, who I have never once suspected based on
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Speaker 1: statistics alone, but especially looking at him compared to John Banat,
18:31
Speaker 1: I think she could crack him in two with one
18:33
Speaker 1: hand behind her back. The brother has actually sued when
18:38
Speaker 1: it was suggested he was guilty, and you know, if
18:43
Speaker 1: doing that it would have basically allowed him to be
18:46
Speaker 1: put on the stand, and he was not afraid of that.
18:49
Speaker 1: So I've never believed Burke did it, and I don't
18:53
Speaker 1: believe the dad did it because John Benet, to my understanding,
18:58
Speaker 1: still had a hymen means an adult male had never
19:02
Speaker 1: had relations with her. Gary Eliva now confessing I did it,
19:08
Speaker 1: is the case now solved in the murder of John Benet,
19:11
Speaker 1: or is it simply more murky? I and Nancy Grace here,
19:22
Speaker 1: have you ever googled yourself, your neighbors, somebody at work,
19:26
Speaker 1: a crush. Fifty seven percent of Americans admit to keeping
19:30
Speaker 1: an eye on their own online reputation. Forty six admit
19:34
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19:37
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20:35
Speaker 1: with Nancy Grace. Boulder Police say Gary Olivia is still
20:41
Speaker 1: a suspect and the John Vannie Ramsey murderer. He has
20:44
Speaker 1: not been cleared, but is well known to officers and
20:47
Speaker 1: city leaders. Tell me if new information comes to light
20:49
Speaker 1: through his most recent arrest, they will certainly look into it.
20:56
Speaker 1: Nearly two decades after John Vaney Ramsey was killed Insider
20:59
Speaker 1: Families Boulder Home, a suspect and the infamous Christmas Night
21:03
Speaker 1: murder is behind bars, accused of downloading child pornography. We
21:06
Speaker 1: haven't ruled him in or out in connection with the
21:08
Speaker 1: Ramsey case. Boulder Police, the same agency investigating the Ramsey case,
21:13
Speaker 1: arrested fifty two year old Gary Oliva after getting a
21:15
Speaker 1: cyber tip that looked like somebody was getting in pornography
21:18
Speaker 1: materials related to children to an address the investigators were
21:21
Speaker 1: able to link to mister Oliva. Court documents show he
21:24
Speaker 1: downloaded twenty two separate sexually explicit images. All of the
21:28
Speaker 1: photos showed children under ten years of age, who certainly
21:31
Speaker 1: understand the interests in mister Oliva, both in connection with
21:34
Speaker 1: the new charges and his possible connection in the past.
21:37
Speaker 1: Oliva wasn't one of the early suspects in the Ramsey case,
21:40
Speaker 1: but the convicted sex offender may have been close to
21:42
Speaker 1: the Ramsey home on the night of the murder and
21:44
Speaker 1: when he was arrested on other charges back in two thousand,
21:47
Speaker 1: police found a photo of Ramsey in his possession and
21:49
Speaker 1: he did admit to having an obsession with a young
21:52
Speaker 1: beauty queen. Feel like we ought to look at all
21:54
Speaker 1: people as being possible suspects that have been possible suspects before.
21:58
Speaker 1: For now, Boulder Police say it's focused on the most
22:00
Speaker 1: recent charges, but that could change if additional information about
22:04
Speaker 1: him becomes available subsequent to his arrest. In this case,
22:07
Speaker 1: we'll certainly look at it now. Eliva is charged with
22:10
Speaker 1: three felonies for sexual exploitation of a child. You are
22:13
Speaker 1: hearing our friend at ABC seven. They're in Denver. That's
22:18
Speaker 1: Jennifer Kovaleski talking about the twenty sixteen arrest of Gary
22:22
Speaker 1: Eliva on child porn. Now he jumps up and says,
22:25
Speaker 1: I kill John Banet. But Bobby Brown, Colorado Private Investigator
22:30
Speaker 1: is correct, he said it before. But you know what,
22:33
Speaker 1: as I always love to say in court when the
22:35
Speaker 1: defense jumps up and over and ever, I'm like, you
22:37
Speaker 1: can say that, oh all you want to. You can
22:40
Speaker 1: say a hundred times, two hundred times, a thousand times.
22:42
Speaker 1: It doesn't make it true. Just because he keeps saying
22:45
Speaker 1: I did it, I did it doesn't make it true.
22:48
Speaker 1: Joining me right now, renown medical examiner and author of
22:51
Speaker 1: Homicide Investigation Field Guide. Now there's some good reading right there,
22:56
Speaker 1: Homicide Investigation Field Guide. You know, Jackie and Allan, Jackie
23:02
Speaker 1: Howard and Allen Duke always roll their four eyeballs when
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Speaker 1: I talk about one of my favorite books ever, Method
23:09
Speaker 1: and Assessment of Homicide and Suicide. I mean, I can't
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Speaker 1: tell you how many times I read that. And of
23:15
Speaker 1: course the Gun Lover's Bible, so I would familiarize myself
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Speaker 1: with ballistics. So you know, Homicide Investigation Field Guide I'm
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Speaker 1: very impressed, doctor Michel Dupree, But that's not my issue today.
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Speaker 1: My issue is Gary Oliva, because a lot of people
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Speaker 1: want to believe, yes, he did it and put the
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Speaker 1: case to bed. But I don't take it very lightly
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Speaker 1: when somebody makes a false confession, because you know what
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Speaker 1: that does. That ruins a potential future prosecution of the
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Speaker 1: real killer because as giving no offense choice Layton slimy
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Speaker 1: defense attorneys a defense on a silver platter, say I
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Speaker 1: catch the real killer. And then here comes TROYE Slate
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Speaker 1: bouncing into court and his two thousand dollars Armani suit
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Speaker 1: and his fancy Italian loafers. He comes up and he goes,
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Speaker 1: oh really, because John Mark Carr said he did it
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Speaker 1: and Gary Olivia said he did it, it doesn't help,
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Speaker 1: doctor Michelle Dupree. It doesn't help at all when some
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Speaker 1: nut job like Oliva claims he did it, and hey,
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Speaker 1: what if he did? So, Michelle Dupree, Doctor Dupree, how
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Speaker 1: do I prove he did or didn't do it based
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Speaker 1: on the crime scene in the DNA fancy? That's an
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Speaker 1: excellent question. We go with a physical evidence, I mean,
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Speaker 1: physical evidence does not lie, and your guests are far
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Speaker 1: have mentioned many instances and where it just doesn't add up.
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Speaker 1: The DNA doesn't match, there's no other physical evidence at
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Speaker 1: the crime scene to make a confession. We all know
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Speaker 1: that some people just want the spotlight, and so that's
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Speaker 1: where we'd have to go on the defense of this.
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Speaker 1: Go with the physical evidence and you will never go wrong.
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Speaker 1: You know what. I used to argue something like that
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Speaker 1: to juries all the time, not as eloquently as you
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Speaker 1: just did. And you didn't even train three years to
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Speaker 1: speak in front of a jury. Very well. Put, you
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Speaker 1: have to follow the hard forensics if you've got it,
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Speaker 1: And here, Cheryl McCollum, we have a glaring lack of
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Speaker 1: forensics pointing to Oliva. Cheryl McCollum, if you had one
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Speaker 1: minute in front of the jury, what would you say
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Speaker 1: to sum up the fact did Gary Oliva murder little
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Speaker 1: beauty Queen John Benet. He has not given us one
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Speaker 1: thing about that crime scene we didn't already know or
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Speaker 1: we didn't publish. He's a liar and he's out for attention, period.
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Speaker 1: What about forensic Cheryl, There is no zero that leads
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Speaker 1: to him. There's no DNA, he's got no clothing with
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Speaker 1: her blood on it. He's got no hair from her, nothing,
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Speaker 1: nothing leads us to him. And Anthia is another thing.
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Speaker 1: No blame, get it. The whole surrounding of that house,
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Speaker 1: the whole perimeter. There's no footprints coming or going from
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Speaker 1: that house. What did he do? H a bag out
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Speaker 1: of there? Come on, he didn't do it. He does
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Speaker 1: it right like her mama. He didn't spend hours in
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Speaker 1: that house after he quote accidentally killed her and found
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Speaker 1: a paint brush and a piece of rope and did
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Speaker 1: a makeshift you know, way to strangle that base rite. Yeah. So,
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Speaker 1: Troy Slayton, you're the renowned defense attorney. If you were
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Speaker 1: defending a future defendant, what would you say? Because I
26:37
Speaker 1: know you can spin a yarn. No offense, Troy, and
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Speaker 1: I'm sure an untaken But what would you what would
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Speaker 1: you say? It sounds like to say he can do it.
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Speaker 1: If you say you're you aren't defending Jackie Howard five
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Speaker 1: years from now, who's now charged with murdering John Benett.
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Speaker 1: How would you try and pin this on a leva?
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Speaker 1: Why would certainly point to his confession? I would say,
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Speaker 1: let's believe a person when they make a statement against
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Speaker 1: penal interest. Here's another legal theory for the audience. When
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Speaker 1: somebody says something that goes so far against what an
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Speaker 1: average person would do and tends to inculpate themselves, tends
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Speaker 1: to make themselves look guilty, that type of statement is
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Speaker 1: more trustworthy here. A normal person doesn't commit I mean,
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Speaker 1: doesn't admit to committing a crime that they didn't do.
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Speaker 1: A normal person doesn't. Obviously Oliva's is not a normal person.
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Speaker 1: And if I was called upon to defend Oliva's in
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Speaker 1: some sort of future prosecution, well you have my witness
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Speaker 1: list already all set for me too. Bobby Brown, who
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Speaker 1: is a veteran in law enforcement Colorado private investigator, Bobby Brown, again,
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Speaker 1: thank you for being with us. You've heard Cheryl McCollum
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Speaker 1: explying why she doesn't think Oliva is response or committed
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Speaker 1: the crime, but you disagree. Explain. I want everybody to
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Speaker 1: know that I am not saying by any means that
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Speaker 1: Gary Oliva is, even though he confessed again that he
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Speaker 1: is the person that is responsible for the death of
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Speaker 1: John Benet. But I just wanted to say a couple
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Speaker 1: of things. Is that after John Benet's death, Gary Olivia
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Speaker 1: did leave the state and where he sexually molested a
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Speaker 1: seven year old little girl. And he was in Boulder
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Speaker 1: the night that John Benet was killed. He was supposedly
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Speaker 1: staying at a church near by their house, and the
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Speaker 1: next morning he called his friend. He tells his friend
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Speaker 1: that he had done something really bad that a little girl.
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Speaker 1: One thing that I will say that when I called
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Speaker 1: up when he was arrested in two thousand and sixteen
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Speaker 1: with the pornography charges I did, I got all of
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Speaker 1: the bonding information, which I have printed out right in
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Speaker 1: front of me, and it clearly says that he was
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Speaker 1: arrested on April tenth. However, he was booked into the
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Speaker 1: Boulder County Jail on June seventeenth, and he had a
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Speaker 1: bond set for twenty five thousand dollars. When I asked
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Speaker 1: the jail where was he between April tenth and June seventeenth,
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Speaker 1: and the exact quote from the deputy or person that
29:45
Speaker 1: I spoke to the jail said that it was the
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Speaker 1: sixty four thousand dollars question of the day. The world
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Speaker 1: was shocked to hear about the motive of the six
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Speaker 1: year old beauty pageant princess jumping a Ramsey. Since this
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Speaker 1: horrible day, her death has remained as one of the
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Speaker 1: biggest mysteries of all time, which has set in motion
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Speaker 1: at many conspiracy theories, some crazy but others more grounded
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Speaker 1: in reality. Today, Lauren Forces are on the brig of
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Speaker 1: closing the case after Gary Oliver, a fifty four year
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Speaker 1: old convicted pedophile who is currently serving time in prison,
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Speaker 1: confessed to her murder. The Daily Mail obtained letters written
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Speaker 1: by Gary Oliver. The report claimed the fifty four year
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Speaker 1: old is taking full responsibility for the crime, saying he
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Speaker 1: killed her by accident. I never loved anyone like it
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Speaker 1: did John Bernee, and yet I let her slipped, her
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Speaker 1: head bashed and I watched her die. He allegedly wrote,
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Speaker 1: it was an accident. Please believe me. She was not
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Speaker 1: like other kids. John Bernee completely changed me and removed
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Speaker 1: all evil from me. Oliver stated, just one look at
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Speaker 1: her beautiful face, her beautiful skin and divine God body.
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Speaker 1: I realized I was wrong to kill other kids. Yet
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Speaker 1: by accident she died and it was my fault. The
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Speaker 1: sensational letters was sent to the music publicist to Michael Vale,
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Speaker 1: a former mate of Oliver's who has quartedly suspected his
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Speaker 1: involvement in the crime for many years. The shock admission
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Speaker 1: is one of the biggest breakthroughs in the now infamous case,
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Speaker 1: which has had detective stumped for years. My suspicion began
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Speaker 1: when Gary called me late one night on December twenty six,
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Speaker 1: nineteen sixty six. He was sobbing and said, I heard
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Speaker 1: a little girl. The fifty five year old told the publication,
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Speaker 1: you're hearing our friends at Daily Mail regarding Gary Oliva
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Speaker 1: announcing he murdered John Benet. I don't know that I
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Speaker 1: would call his confession a breakthrough. I think I call
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Speaker 1: it more of a speedbop. To Bobby Brown, Colorado private investigator,
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Speaker 1: how did you first learn about Eliva? At the breakfast
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Speaker 1: meeting that Lou Smith and I had? And Lou Smith
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Speaker 1: was the one that brought up that there was a suspect,
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Speaker 1: Gary Oliva, and Lou was very serious about it. I was,
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Speaker 1: and obviously that's how I I put a lot of
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Speaker 1: work to this. And I want to say that, you know,
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Speaker 1: when people ask real quick, why would anybody confess to this?
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Speaker 1: You know, why would you leave? But consessted this, and
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Speaker 1: you know that's a great question, because somebody that's been
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Speaker 1: around with this for a long time. The sex offenders
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Speaker 1: and especially pedophiles, they don't do really well in prison.
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Speaker 1: So you know, if you're in prison and all of
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Speaker 1: a sudden you're you're saying, here's this gigantic case that's
32:18
Speaker 1: been out there for all these decades, and then you're
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Speaker 1: saying that you are the one that did it, you know,
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Speaker 1: that's not a very smart move by any meaning. Well,
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Speaker 1: it could be. To Robin Willinski, Crime Online dot Com
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Speaker 1: investigative reporter and author of Beautiful Life See Aside behind
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Speaker 1: Casey Anthony Trial on Amazon, Robin, you've studied this very
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Speaker 1: very carefully. We all covered at John Manai's death and
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Speaker 1: the investigation intensely at the time. What do you make
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Speaker 1: of it? What about his confession is consistent or inconsistent
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Speaker 1: with the facts, the forensic facts as we know them. Well,
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Speaker 1: I'll tell you an aunty. I was actually out there
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Speaker 1: in another lifetime in two thousand and six working for
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Speaker 1: another network when they bought brought John Mark Carr back
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Speaker 1: to the United States, And I will tell you that
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Speaker 1: I knew of Aliva, but I do not believe that
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Speaker 1: the DNA there's no DNA that puts him inside that house.
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Speaker 1: For me personally, my big takeaway after all these years,
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Speaker 1: the only thing that connects John Mark Carr, the other
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Speaker 1: guy who said that he killed John Beday, the only
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Speaker 1: thing in my mind that connects him to the case.
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Speaker 1: You know, there's no receipts, there's no DNA. That ransom
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Speaker 1: note that Patsy finds on the bottom of the staircase
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Speaker 1: is signed s b TC, and no one has ever
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Speaker 1: been able to explain what those letters stand for. Well,
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Speaker 1: in my old job at a different network, we had
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Speaker 1: a producer that was sniffing around in this little town
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Speaker 1: in Alabama where John Mark Carr is from. And in
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Speaker 1: one of his yearbooks he signs it SBTC shall be
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Speaker 1: the Conqueror. And to me, that's an interesting takeaway to
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Speaker 1: this case. Also, there was a window in the basement
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Speaker 1: that there's some glass that was pushed in. The only
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Speaker 1: person skinny enough, physically small enough to have gotten into
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Speaker 1: that window from the outside is not Aliva. He's a
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Speaker 1: much bigger guy. The only person who would fit through
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Speaker 1: that window would be someone like John Mark Carr, who
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Speaker 1: is that sick you know, Roby Mallinski. When I would
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Speaker 1: try cases. In closing argument, I carried with me a
34:20
Speaker 1: huge jar of water, and at the bottom, Cheryl, don't grown,
34:25
Speaker 1: because you remember this, there was dirt at the bottom.
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Speaker 1: And at the beginning of my closing statement. Sometimes, if
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Speaker 1: it fit, i would take the big jar and I'd
34:37
Speaker 1: shake it in front of the jury to make sure
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Speaker 1: they saw me do it. I'd set it down on
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Speaker 1: council table and then I'd start my closing argument, which
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Speaker 1: would at the least take one hour. By the time
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Speaker 1: the hour was up, I would pick up the jar,
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Speaker 1: which now all the soil was at the bottom, and
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Speaker 1: I'd hold it up and say that defense is trying
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Speaker 1: to muddy the water. I've explained to you the facts
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Speaker 1: and see now is crystal clear you are muddying the water.
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Speaker 1: Robin Wilinsky, I'm just gonna tell you right now because
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Speaker 1: and you have me. You're like a little snake charmer.
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Speaker 1: Oh SBTC and he could fit through the window. I'm
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Speaker 1: calling b yes again, Troy S Laton, LA defense lawyer.
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Speaker 1: Isn't it true John Mark Carr was in another state
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Speaker 1: when John Benet was killed. That's when all the evidence
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Speaker 1: shows and it's it's unbelievable to why can't you just
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Speaker 1: say yes like a normal person. Why why do you
35:39
Speaker 1: have to leave a little doubtling? Really well, that's what
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Speaker 1: the evidence shows, as if to say, bet Man I wasn't.
35:45
Speaker 1: Maybe he was with Harry Potter. Maybe he was with
35:48
Speaker 1: Harry Potter and they transported what's the word they use
35:52
Speaker 1: in Harry Potter. I've got I've read them so many times,
35:54
Speaker 1: and they appeared in John Manay's basement. He wasn't out
35:59
Speaker 1: of the state. Troy Slayton, he may have been out
36:02
Speaker 1: of the state. That's what the evidence appears to show, Nancy,
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Speaker 1: But I wasn't with them. You weren't with them, so
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Speaker 1: we can't say for sure. And it's this exact type
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Speaker 1: of confession from Oliva that is, as you've said, a
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Speaker 1: goldmine for the defense in any future prosecution of this
36:25
Speaker 1: horrific tragedy. To doctor Michelle Duprey, medical examiner and author
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Speaker 1: Homicide Investigation Field Guide, do you see anything on the
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Speaker 1: scene of the murder that indicates Oliva is the killer? Nancy,
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Speaker 1: not that I can tell. I mean, there is no
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Speaker 1: physical evidence, and that's always what we have to go for.
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Speaker 1: Everything that your other guest have said is absolutely true.
36:42
Speaker 1: There's no way to tie him to this. We depend
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Speaker 1: on something called low cards exchange, where a perpetrator comes in,
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Speaker 1: brings something from outside into the crime scene and then
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Speaker 1: take something away from the crime scene outside. We don't
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Speaker 1: have that here too, Cheryl McCollum, Cold Case Research Institute Director,
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Speaker 1: CSI expert. Cheryl, you know, give me your best shot
37:04
Speaker 1: as to why he did do it. I know that's
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Speaker 1: gonna be tough. Zero there's nothing, and I'm gonna blow
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Speaker 1: your mind. Cadn't you just use your imagination for Pete's sake?
37:14
Speaker 1: Defense attorneys to do it all the time. I do,
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Speaker 1: And in order to do that, I would have to
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Speaker 1: make something up, which is exactly what he's done it.
37:20
Speaker 1: But I'm going to blow your mind. He didn't even confess,
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Speaker 1: he said, John Beney slipt and she hit her head.
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Speaker 1: We don't even have a confessience. He's a liar, is
37:33
Speaker 1: that true? Bobby Brown Colorado a PI Is there nowhere
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Speaker 1: he says I did it? Not from ideal and there
37:43
Speaker 1: is one to Cheryl McCollum, director of the Cold Case
37:46
Speaker 1: Research Institute. I know you couldn't stretch your imagination to
37:51
Speaker 1: come up with an argument that Eliva's guilty. But if
37:56
Speaker 1: you were arguing to the jury right now, why would
37:58
Speaker 1: you say he's not guilty of John Benet's murder. His
38:02
Speaker 1: handwriting does not match the ransom note. He writes an
38:06
Speaker 1: all caps the ransom note does not in the ransom note.
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Speaker 1: It says things like at ashe and she's gonna be beheaded,
38:13
Speaker 1: and all of these things. His confessions, it's not it's
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Speaker 1: not a confession number one and number two. He doesn't
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Speaker 1: say what he hit her in the head with. It
38:23
Speaker 1: doesn't say you know why he did it. He doesn't
38:27
Speaker 1: say he's molested her or anything. He doesn't say how
38:31
Speaker 1: he got in her out of the house. He doesn't
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Speaker 1: say how he knew where the locked bedroom was or
38:35
Speaker 1: the room. He doesn't say where the pineapple came from,
38:38
Speaker 1: or why he took time to feed this child. He
38:41
Speaker 1: doesn't say where he found a legal pad or the inkpen,
38:44
Speaker 1: or why he would go from the third floors to
38:47
Speaker 1: the basement, and spends all of this time in this
38:49
Speaker 1: house writing a three page note looking for these instruments
38:53
Speaker 1: to do that, all the while there's a dead six
38:56
Speaker 1: year on the basement that he didn't mean to really
38:58
Speaker 1: kill in the first place. None, none of it makes
39:01
Speaker 1: any sense. And Nancy, he's a liar, and he's an opportunist.
39:05
Speaker 1: And he and his you know, elementary school friend. Maybe
39:08
Speaker 1: they want to write a book. I don't know what
39:10
Speaker 1: they're doing. But it's not true. There's nothing authentic. Again,
39:15
Speaker 1: he has not told us one thing that is not
39:18
Speaker 1: public knowledge about that thing. Explain whether or not she
39:21
Speaker 1: was paved. Tell me, tell me what the marks are
39:25
Speaker 1: on her neck, Tell me how the scratch has got
39:27
Speaker 1: on her back. Tell me why the paintbrush. Why you
39:31
Speaker 1: would make this really crude garrett to strangle her with?
39:35
Speaker 1: And why do you keep talking about the head in dream?
39:37
Speaker 1: You don't mention his trangulation at all. Just patiki eye. There.
39:40
Speaker 1: We know she was strangled. That's the official rule. Explain
39:44
Speaker 1: it to me. Why would you make a little drawing
39:47
Speaker 1: in the palm of her hand? Why would you go
39:48
Speaker 1: back up the stairs and get her favorite toy? He
39:51
Speaker 1: can't explain any of that because he didn't do it.
39:54
Speaker 1: I think that says it all, Kama says. Tells me
39:56
Speaker 1: Gary Olivia is just seeking attention, a book deal, a
40:00
Speaker 1: movie deal, or who knows what, maybe even protective custody.
40:04
Speaker 1: We'll see Nancy Gray's crime story, signing off goodbye friend,