Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Bigamist murder, Scott Peterson speaks & Charlottesville, Va., violence

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Bigamist murder, Scott Peterson speaks & Charlottesville, Va., violence · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

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Speaker 1: Twenty seventeen marks the anniversary of the Summer of Sam.
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Speaker 1: To mark the occasion, Pocketbooks is proud to release a
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Speaker 1: special anniversary edition E book of Son of Sam by
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Speaker 1: demon haunted forty four caliber killer, killed six, wounded several others,
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Speaker 1: from July nineteen seventy six through August nineteen seventy seven.
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Speaker 1: It's also the story of the greatest man hunt in
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Speaker 1: the history of the New York Police Department, the intimate
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Speaker 1: narrative of the men assigned to tracking down a lone killer.
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Speaker 1: The police task Force investigated more than three thousand suspects,
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Speaker 1: some of them cops, before finally making an arrest. In
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Speaker 1: the meantime, politicians watched a city writhe and panic. Newspapers
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Speaker 1: played upon the fears of their readers, and the criminal
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Speaker 1: justice system showed itself incapable of coping with the man
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Speaker 1: who committed such horrendous crimes. Download Summer of Sam by
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Speaker 1: Lawrence D. Klausner today. Royalties earned from the cell of
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Speaker 1: this book will be shared between the victims, where their
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Speaker 1: families and the off her Climb stories with Nancy Grace
1:07
Speaker 1: on Sirius XM Triumph Channel one thirty two. Multiple capital
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Speaker 1: murder indictments handed down for murderers who left the Madison
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Speaker 1: County community devastated. Ronda Carlson is charged with eighteen counts
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Speaker 1: of capital murder, Christopher Henderson nineteen counts. Suspects were accused
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Speaker 1: of killing two adults, two children, in an unborn baby
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Speaker 1: back in then burning down the family's home. A seemingly
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Speaker 1: mild mannered couple now indide it for five murders, repeat
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Speaker 1: five murders. The husband's pregnant second wife. Did I read
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Speaker 1: that wrong? You're pregnant second wife? Okay, this is on
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Speaker 1: us soil. I don't know about illegal second wife. It's
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Speaker 1: less a pregnant one, two children, and the mother in
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Speaker 1: law and the unborn baby. They allegedly cut out of
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Speaker 1: her womb and stabbed. What joining me right now? Two
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Speaker 1: very special guests Joseph Scott Morgan, who is a death
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Speaker 1: scene investigator and professor of forensics at Jacksonville State University
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Speaker 1: also with me investigative reporter Cheryl White. Cheryl, what happened? Well,
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Speaker 1: this is a horrific crime. And you say second wife,
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Speaker 1: but he was still married to the first wife, Nancy,
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Speaker 1: So it's bigamy. Um, his wife, Ronda Carlson, and Christopher
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Speaker 1: Henderson are accused of killing his second wife. Um. She
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Speaker 1: was thirty five years old, and you said she was pregnant.
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Speaker 1: She was nine months pregnant, Nancy. She was about to
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Speaker 1: give birth a little Lauren Brooke. Um. But she was
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Speaker 1: also in the process of divorcing Christopher Henderson because she
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Speaker 1: had just discovered that he was already married to someone else.
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Speaker 1: She didn't know that when she married him, so she
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Speaker 1: had filed a restraining order against him. And what he
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Speaker 1: didn't know, apparently, was that she had installed a surveillance system.
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Speaker 1: She had a camera on the house where she was staying.
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Speaker 1: That was her mother's home. So guess what. There is
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Speaker 1: so much evidence that was caught on that surveillance camera. Okay,
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Speaker 1: that is perking my interest as surveillance camera. What do
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Speaker 1: you expect us to learn from the surveillance Erril, Why, Well,
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Speaker 1: according to what we've learned on that surveillance camera video, which,
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Speaker 1: by the way, the relatives were able to pull up
3:43
Speaker 1: on their cell phones as first responders were coming to
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Speaker 1: the scene of the fire at the home of Christine
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Speaker 1: Smallwood's mother, So they pulled it up and they were
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Speaker 1: showing first responders Christopher Henderson going into the house wearing
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Speaker 1: gloves and um. They also showed his wife, his first wife,
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Speaker 1: Ronda Carlson, shows her going in carrying a gas can.
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Speaker 1: Then later on that same surveillance camera video, you see
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Speaker 1: them leaving just before smoke starts pouring out of that house.
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Speaker 1: Whoa caught on camera? So the wife comes along for
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Speaker 1: the murders, Yeah, absolutely, she They were both there and
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Speaker 1: it's it's just really it's one of those things it's
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Speaker 1: hard to wrap your mind around because she was about
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Speaker 1: to give birth and as you mentioned when you described
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Speaker 1: this story, they are accused of actually cutting the fetus
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Speaker 1: out and stabbing the fetus. So that's why it's five
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Speaker 1: five murders. Kristen Smallwood the unborn child Lauren. Kristen's eight
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Speaker 1: year old son, Clayton Chambers, she'd been married before. Her mother,
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Speaker 1: Carol Smallwood sixty seven, was also there and Kristen's one
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Speaker 1: year old nephew Eli. Now they're both also not only
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Speaker 1: indicted on murder charges, but first degree arson charges also included.
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Speaker 1: And that's because Eli, again one year old, was stabbed,
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Speaker 1: but forensics say he actually died of asphyxiation in the fire. Sheryl,
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Speaker 1: Why it's almost more than I can take in, and
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Speaker 1: all I can focus on right now is seeking justice
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Speaker 1: for this family, this devastation right under our noses. Christopher
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Speaker 1: Matthew Henderson, aged forty Rhonda Carlson, aged forty two, now
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Speaker 1: suspected in the deaths of five people, nine months pregnant,
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Speaker 1: Kristen Henderson, nine months pregnant her unborn daughter, both stabbed
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Speaker 1: to death. According to police sources. The unborn child was
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Speaker 1: taken cut cut from Kristen's stomach and stabbed. Also murdered
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Speaker 1: Kristen's eight year old little boy, her mother, and there
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Speaker 1: one year old nephew. I'm just thinking back on how
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Speaker 1: helpless the twins were when they were first born, Joe Scott,
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Speaker 1: how helpless they were, and at one year old, how
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Speaker 1: helpless they were, at eight years old, how trusting they
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Speaker 1: were for what Joe Scott way in I think, let
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Speaker 1: me let me paint a really dark picture here for you.
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Speaker 1: If I can't get any darker. This one year old
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Speaker 1: who was stabbed, fancy uh died as a result of
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Speaker 1: not the stabbed woe, but of smoke annilation. So let's
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Speaker 1: think about this just for a second. After this person
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Speaker 1: had brutally stabbed and shot these individuals, he took time
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Speaker 1: two remove this child from the mother's wound, a term child,
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Speaker 1: and then stabbed the child to death. Now, all the while,
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Speaker 1: this little one year old is suffering from stab wounds,
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Speaker 1: while all of this is going on around it. Because
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Speaker 1: we know that as a result of the autopsy, this
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Speaker 1: child did not die of the stab wounds. They died
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Speaker 1: of smoke inhalation. So that little little Eli laid there
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Speaker 1: and suffered in this environment. That gives you, I think,
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Speaker 1: probably a depth of how evil this event is. When
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Speaker 1: I first saw it, and I've seen a lot of cases,
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Speaker 1: as you well know my career. Um, it just it
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Speaker 1: just punched me in the gut when I first read this,
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Speaker 1: and you you reflect back on this and you think
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Speaker 1: how much lower can some some person go in this context,
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Speaker 1: and it it doesn't seem like it gets much lower
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Speaker 1: than this. I was just thinking that Joseph got Morgan
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Speaker 1: for a DestinE investigator also forensic professor at Jacksonville State University.
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Speaker 1: Before I gave birth to the twins, it was let's see,
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Speaker 1: I gave birth on a Sunday. This must have been
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Speaker 1: Friday or Saturday evening. I tried to go my husband
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Speaker 1: want to go to a restaurant, and so I was
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Speaker 1: trying to walk into the restaurant and somebody turned to
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Speaker 1: him and said, you better get hurt to a hospital
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Speaker 1: because I got a bad feeling. And boy were they right,
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Speaker 1: because the next day I had an emergency since arian
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Speaker 1: section and I was so so physically messed up. Joe
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Speaker 1: Scott he drove me right to the front of the
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Speaker 1: hospital and left to go park. I couldn't even walk.
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Speaker 1: I laid down on the floor in the entryway the
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Speaker 1: lobby of the hospital, and to get out of everybody's way,
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Speaker 1: I went and kind of like moved over inlaid under
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Speaker 1: a sofa because I could not take another step. And
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Speaker 1: this woman is nine months pregnant. She was killed. Kristen
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Speaker 1: was murdered just one week. It's not just about divorce.
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Speaker 1: One week after she files a protective order against him,
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Speaker 1: and during that hearing, it was revealed Henderson was also
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Speaker 1: married to Carlson. I mean, there you are in court
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Speaker 1: with a protective order hearing, which I can only imagine
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Speaker 1: what that was about. And you find out the guy's
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Speaker 1: married to somebody else. Still, so why didn't they just
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Speaker 1: go forward with the divorce? Cheryl White, Why did it
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Speaker 1: have to come down to five dead bodies? If this
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Speaker 1: is not a death penalty case, I don't know what is, Cheryl,
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Speaker 1: I just don't know what is. Well and Nancy also
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Speaker 1: consider this as we paint this picture. Can you imagine
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Speaker 1: the first responders. I mean they are responding to a
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Speaker 1: house her and outside there is a little Eli one
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Speaker 1: year old. His mom is screaming for her baby. She
10:08
Speaker 1: knows he's still inside. They go in and they start
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Speaker 1: finding the victims, one by one by one. It was
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Speaker 1: so bad that doctors advised that they be monitored for
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Speaker 1: years because of lingering trauma. So this is how the
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Speaker 1: whole thing went down. Okay, we're talking about a big
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Speaker 1: misted and his wife, killing the second wife nine months pregnant,
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Speaker 1: and wiping out her whole family five dead, including cutting
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Speaker 1: the unborn child out of her nine months pregnant stomach,
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Speaker 1: murdering her mother, a one year old child. And this
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Speaker 1: photo of her, of Kristen with her little boy, her
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Speaker 1: little boys Clayton, age eight. This picture that I keep
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Speaker 1: looking out of them is you know how you, uh,
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Speaker 1: Joe Scott, you know how you put two cans on
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Speaker 1: the end of a string and you try to talk
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Speaker 1: to each other like a phone. The little eight year
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Speaker 1: old boy, Clayton, has one ken to his ear and
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Speaker 1: the mom is holding the other ken to her pregnant tummy.
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Speaker 1: And there's a precious, precious image. They're both smiling so
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Speaker 1: big about the new baby and and this and when
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Speaker 1: then I looked at their mug shots and I'm talking
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Speaker 1: about big Amus Christopher Matthew Henderson, aged forty and first
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Speaker 1: wife Rhonda Jene Carlson, aged forty two. They're looking right
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Speaker 1: at the camera like they've got and their attitude in
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Speaker 1: their face says it all. It's like they're angry, they're arrested.
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Speaker 1: It looks defiant. I just don't understand. So they go
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Speaker 1: for a hearing, Joe Scott morgan um talking about a
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Speaker 1: protective order, but then she petitions the court to withdraw
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Speaker 1: her divorce based on the fact her husband was still
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Speaker 1: married to his first wife. So their marriage was never legal.
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Speaker 1: She was granted the order of protection based on her
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Speaker 1: testimony that he had hit her, and she wrote in
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Speaker 1: her filings, he has lied about everything since we first
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Speaker 1: met and as a result of that. Now I'm looking
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Speaker 1: at the photo as we talk, Cheryl and Joe Scott
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Speaker 1: of her nephew just one year old, Eli. He happened
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Speaker 1: to be there when I think of my babies at
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Speaker 1: one year old. I mean, Joe Scott, what in the
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Speaker 1: hey were these two thinking? I have no idea the
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Speaker 1: the first wife is claiming that she was, you know,
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Speaker 1: just kind of an innocent party in this whole Wait
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Speaker 1: a minute, you don't tromp around a five victim murder
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Speaker 1: and claim you were just there. I mean, the video
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Speaker 1: catches them walking in in gloves and carrying a gas can.
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Speaker 1: And that's the thing about Arson. Joe Scott and I've
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Speaker 1: prosecuted many Arson cases. If they had been successful, it
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Speaker 1: may never have been proved that this was even a crime.
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Speaker 1: It could have been chalked off, chalked up as an accident.
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Speaker 1: That's the thing about Arson. You gotta have a really
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Speaker 1: good investigator to wade through, to sip through an Arsen
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Speaker 1: seemed to prove a crime even occurred. So not only
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Speaker 1: did they go there premeditatedly with gloves and a gas can,
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Speaker 1: that shows there was planning. She was with him. What
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Speaker 1: do you mean she just went along. Yeah, she claims
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Speaker 1: that she stood in the four of the house while
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Speaker 1: he took the gas canon went inside. Of course, the
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Speaker 1: CCTV UH images uh indicates something else. Let me tell
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Speaker 1: you what else. Regarding the arson, the investigators for the
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Speaker 1: state did a fantastic job withou they'ven't gone so far
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Speaker 1: in the appearing thus far to talk about splash patterns,
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Speaker 1: and this gives us an idea is to how the
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Speaker 1: gas or the accelerant was splashed about. Just imagine if
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Speaker 1: someone spills milk somewhere and it creates a stain, you
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Speaker 1: go back to wipe it up, and there's still that
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Speaker 1: residual pattern, just like that with gas. And this area
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Speaker 1: is burned in where the splash pattern takes place, so
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Speaker 1: you can see where he dumped this gas. After after
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Speaker 1: they had both perpetrated this horrible crime on his family
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Speaker 1: and just decimated him, he decides, well, I'll go ahead
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Speaker 1: and burn them up. And of course, as I previously mentioned,
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Speaker 1: he burned a one year old alive. Family members access
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Speaker 1: footage from their cell phones. As Sheryl White, investigative reporter,
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Speaker 1: was just telling us those UH cameras had just been
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Speaker 1: installed the week before after she had gotten the protective
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Speaker 1: order against her husband. This is what else we found,
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Speaker 1: Sheryl White. A backpack Henderson carried when he came home
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Speaker 1: from the fire was found at his mom's home. How
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Speaker 1: protect While everybody always goes and hides at their mom's
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Speaker 1: house or stashes and stuff, and their mom's found that
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Speaker 1: his mom's with a lock pick and duct tape inside.
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Speaker 1: A twenty two caliber rifle was in his jeep, as
15:15
Speaker 1: well as mm O, a pistol, and more evidence. They're
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Speaker 1: being held right now without bond. And when you look
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Speaker 1: at the home, it's a lovely brick home out in
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Speaker 1: the middle of a wooded area with a nice big
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Speaker 1: lawn on the front. I mean, and I'm certainly not
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Speaker 1: saying the structure makes the home, but it does not
15:38
Speaker 1: look like a high crime area. It looks almost bucolic.
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Speaker 1: It looks like you know, the American dreams, Cheryl White.
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Speaker 1: It's a very nice area. It's a suburb of Huntsville, Alabama.
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Speaker 1: It's just a little bit to the northeast in Madison County.
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Speaker 1: Even the name of the street sounds as you say,
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Speaker 1: for you, College St. Clair Lane, But it was not
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Speaker 1: that day. And you know, one thing that forensics found
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Speaker 1: was that Carol Smallwood, the mother Christian's mother, was shot,
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Speaker 1: so I don't know that the arson would have covered that.
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Speaker 1: We are waiting for the latest as these cases developed.
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Speaker 1: Five dead bodies, including an unborn child, an eight year
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Speaker 1: old little boy, and a one year old little boy.
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Speaker 1: Why why Luckily prosecutors do not have to prove motive.
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Speaker 1: They are not expected to crawl into the brain of
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Speaker 1: a spree killer and figure out why. They just had
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Speaker 1: to prove who, what, where and when? And now on
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Speaker 1: crime stories we find a defendant, Scott le Peterson, guilty
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Speaker 1: of the crime of murder of Lazy d vs. Peterson.
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Speaker 1: The case of State versus Scott Peterson, to me, feels
16:57
Speaker 1: like it just happened yesterday, just vanished, and it turned
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Speaker 1: into a media storm within days. Please please please let
17:05
Speaker 1: her go, bring her back. Guess what, Scotty san Quin's
17:08
Speaker 1: your new home. There was no biological evidence, no forensic
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Speaker 1: evidence whatsoever that pointed to the guilt of Scott Peterson.
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Speaker 1: There's at least eleven witnesses that saal Lacy that day.
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Speaker 1: This is all all Scott's at the office on his computer,
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Speaker 1: so he's innocent. I wasn't last one is to Lacy
17:25
Speaker 1: that day. There are so many witnesses are walking in
17:28
Speaker 1: the neighborhood. After I left the coffs, Just Cann followed
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Speaker 1: up on deep earlier across the street. Pregnant Lacy Peterson
17:37
Speaker 1: was murdered at Christmas. I've never forgotten it. I've never
17:41
Speaker 1: forgotten sitting in that courtroom as the evidence unfolded, and
17:46
Speaker 1: rushing from outside the front of the courthouse inside for
17:50
Speaker 1: testimony to resume, and the courtroom was completely full, and
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Speaker 1: I couldn't find a seat. I sat on the very
18:00
Speaker 1: back row. I had worked at the last possible second,
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Speaker 1: and I was so far back that I had to
18:07
Speaker 1: take off my backpack and sit on the backpack so
18:11
Speaker 1: I could see up to the front. And I remember
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Speaker 1: Sharon Roacha, Lacey's mother, testifying about Lacy's burial and how
18:26
Speaker 1: in the coffin Lacy was buried holding baby Connor, her
18:34
Speaker 1: first and only child. That's what I remember. And now
18:43
Speaker 1: after a jury convicts him and sends him to death row.
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Speaker 1: Scott Peterson has reared his ugly head again. Oh yes,
18:51
Speaker 1: he has, declaring from behind bars that quote. I wasn't
18:56
Speaker 1: the last one to see Lacy alive. I mean, you
18:59
Speaker 1: know what, just go back to your your keig of
19:03
Speaker 1: Pruno and your love letters from misguided women across the country.
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Speaker 1: Scott Peterson, I mean, how dare he now take salt
19:13
Speaker 1: and rub it into the wounds of Lacey's family? Another
19:17
Speaker 1: thing I will never forget as the family. Lacy's family
19:22
Speaker 1: stood by him as supported him at the beginning, until
19:25
Speaker 1: photos emerge of Lacey at one Christmas party nine months pregnant.
19:32
Speaker 1: She felt so bad she had to put her feet up.
19:37
Speaker 1: At the same time, across town, he was at his
19:39
Speaker 1: own Christmas party with Amber Fry, who had on a
19:44
Speaker 1: red satin strapless dress, and he had on a Santa
19:47
Speaker 1: Claus hat and he had his hand right on her
19:50
Speaker 1: rear end. You know what, I've had it with him.
19:53
Speaker 1: I've had it with him. Why are we even listening
19:56
Speaker 1: to him, Cheryl White? Why it's Scott Peterson back in
20:00
Speaker 1: the headlines spearing his bs. You know why? Because people
20:05
Speaker 1: are still interested in it. And there's a new special
20:08
Speaker 1: about it. And the more I read about what we
20:12
Speaker 1: may see, uh, it almost sounds as if they're they're
20:16
Speaker 1: giving him a chance to defend himself. He said, there
20:20
Speaker 1: are many people who saw her after that alleged last Right,
20:24
Speaker 1: you mean all of them that came forward at trial zero? Right?
20:28
Speaker 1: He he was a particularly unlikable person, don't you think. Well,
20:33
Speaker 1: here's the thing I never got, Joe Scott. Don't feel
20:36
Speaker 1: left out. But I've got to tell you a lot
20:38
Speaker 1: of men, a lot of women thought he was handsome.
20:40
Speaker 1: Not me, of course, I never thought he was even
20:43
Speaker 1: remotely handsome, but a lot of women did. He was
20:46
Speaker 1: allegedly athletic, had a college degree, um teeth apparently straightened
20:54
Speaker 1: by the orthodonist. I did see that at a distance.
20:58
Speaker 1: A job, a beautiful home, a beautiful wife, a baby
21:02
Speaker 1: on the way, a yard, everything, nice car, the works.
21:08
Speaker 1: But just got Morgan, don't even fix your mouth to
21:13
Speaker 1: tell me that a man within the week after his
21:17
Speaker 1: wife quote goes missing, orders the porn channel. Okay, he
21:24
Speaker 1: didn't expect her to walk back through the front door.
21:26
Speaker 1: Can I just put that out there? If I came
21:28
Speaker 1: home and my husband had ordered the porn channel. H
21:34
Speaker 1: his clothes will be in the front yard and a
21:36
Speaker 1: fire pit and the locks will be changed pronto, come
21:41
Speaker 1: home ordered the porn channel. Uhh n oh, okay. And
21:44
Speaker 1: that's just a tiny, tiny bit of evidence that I
21:46
Speaker 1: just want to throw out there. And then within like
21:50
Speaker 1: ten days of her quote disappearance, he's on the phone
21:53
Speaker 1: trying to sell the house and her car. Joe Scott,
21:59
Speaker 1: you're just sitting there, quiet me. What happened? Cat got
22:02
Speaker 1: your tongue? Nope, I hadn't got it yet. I'll tell
22:04
Speaker 1: you another telling piece of information here in regards to
22:07
Speaker 1: miss Amber. Uh. She had made in her statement the
22:11
Speaker 1: comment And I think this is very telling that when
22:14
Speaker 1: he introduced himself, he referred to himself as a widower.
22:19
Speaker 1: Now you know, okay, you just said those words. Everybody
22:22
Speaker 1: in this studio mouth the words widower. We all know it.
22:26
Speaker 1: So why is he jumping up now claiming he's not
22:30
Speaker 1: responsible for her murder? And a baby Connor's murder. And
22:33
Speaker 1: another thing I can remember as I was busy, busy, busy,
22:36
Speaker 1: I don't even know what. I was running like a
22:39
Speaker 1: maniac from one job to the next, and I heard
22:43
Speaker 1: that a baby had washed ashore, and I went, that's
22:48
Speaker 1: baby Connor. I didn't read any news nothing. I said,
22:52
Speaker 1: that's him. And the baby looked like a little shiny
22:56
Speaker 1: plastic baby doll that you you know, buy at the store.
23:00
Speaker 1: Because even in death, Lacey's body, as you know, the
23:04
Speaker 1: uterus is the strongest, the thickest muscle in of the
23:09
Speaker 1: female anatomy, in the reproductive organs, and that was the
23:13
Speaker 1: last thing to give way. And he literally floated out
23:20
Speaker 1: of her uterus and washed ashore, followed by her in
23:24
Speaker 1: the next tied essentially, So, why why am I why?
23:30
Speaker 1: It's like a gnat buzzing around my head. Scott Peterson's
23:35
Speaker 1: Scott Peterson? Why is he saying this now? And what
23:39
Speaker 1: is he saying, Joe Scott. He's saying that someone else
23:43
Speaker 1: other than him was the last person to see this
23:47
Speaker 1: poor woman alive. And of course, uh, we don't know
23:51
Speaker 1: who that person is. This is going to be quote
23:54
Speaker 1: unquote the big reveal in this program that's gonna be broadcast.
23:58
Speaker 1: I am just absolutely amazing podcast in a program, how
24:00
Speaker 1: about in a court of law? What so? Who are
24:04
Speaker 1: who are all these witnesses? This is an uh a
24:07
Speaker 1: Joel House interview he did with his sister in law, Janey,
24:11
Speaker 1: and I don't blame his family at all. They want
24:14
Speaker 1: to believe, they want to believe he's innocent. So you know,
24:18
Speaker 1: I get it. I get it when your mind just
24:21
Speaker 1: does not want to accept what's right in front of you.
24:23
Speaker 1: So he says, quote, I wasn't the last one to
24:26
Speaker 1: see Lacy that day. There were so many witnesses that
24:28
Speaker 1: saw her walking in the neighborhood after I left. If
24:31
Speaker 1: there were so many witnesses, Sheryl White, investigative reporter, why
24:35
Speaker 1: didn't they testify? Yeah, that's the number one question, isn't it.
24:39
Speaker 1: So I don't know that we're going to get any
24:41
Speaker 1: resolution to that, any answer to that question in this
24:45
Speaker 1: new documentary, but reportedly we will. Um And don't forget
24:51
Speaker 1: that when he was arrested, he had dyed his hair.
24:54
Speaker 1: Remember he had bleached his hair out blonde, and his
24:56
Speaker 1: and his goatee, and he had all of that stuff
24:59
Speaker 1: with him that would indicate flight. Do you mean false identifications? Uh,
25:05
Speaker 1: thousands of dollars in cash. Of course, he's stocked up
25:08
Speaker 1: on Fiagra, as I recall, that was in his car.
25:10
Speaker 1: You need that out in the wilderness. Um right, Joe Scott,
25:15
Speaker 1: you know he got it back a big okay. Uh,
25:18
Speaker 1: then all the wilderness gear he was set to go,
25:21
Speaker 1: and as I recall, he was caught and another thing.
25:26
Speaker 1: And you might speak to this, Joe Scott, and I
25:29
Speaker 1: found it true too. Now I don't know of any studies,
25:32
Speaker 1: but they may exist where purps, for some reason always
25:36
Speaker 1: go back to the scene of the crime. How many
25:38
Speaker 1: times did GPS reveal Scott Peterson would go back to
25:42
Speaker 1: the San Francisco Bay just look out over the water
25:45
Speaker 1: before he was arrested. Yeah, he was a lot. He
25:48
Speaker 1: was fondly thinking about what he was going to do
25:50
Speaker 1: with the rest of his life now that he had
25:52
Speaker 1: partially dismembered the body of his wife. I think people
25:56
Speaker 1: are forgetting what he did to this woman. And one
25:59
Speaker 1: more big fact here is the whole the old adage
26:03
Speaker 1: of motive means an opportunity. So you're telling me that
26:06
Speaker 1: there's other people riding around this neighborhood that saw her
26:09
Speaker 1: that could facilitate putting her in a boat after they
26:12
Speaker 1: partially dismembered her, weighed her down and took her out
26:16
Speaker 1: and threw her in the water. It's the dog doesn't hunt.
26:20
Speaker 1: It's absolutely mindless and I cannot believe they're giving this
26:23
Speaker 1: guy a platform. It's absolutely just beyond the pale. Well,
26:27
Speaker 1: here's the other thing. Here's the other thing, um you
26:31
Speaker 1: mentioned as you said, quote miss Amber Well, Amber Fry
26:35
Speaker 1: has been attacked a lot, and I don't want to
26:38
Speaker 1: make this about her because it's really about Lacy and
26:40
Speaker 1: Connor and their and their family. But I've spent time
26:45
Speaker 1: with Amber Fry, and she really believes she found Mr. Write.
26:50
Speaker 1: You know, I don't believe that she knew he was
26:54
Speaker 1: married to this day. I don't think it because when
26:56
Speaker 1: she did find out, it was because of Lacy Peterson
27:00
Speaker 1: in the search for Lacey Peterson, and she called police
27:03
Speaker 1: and went, I think I'm dating a guy that's married
27:06
Speaker 1: to Lacey Peterson. And I will never again forget when
27:12
Speaker 1: those tapes were played where Scott Peterson pretended he was
27:16
Speaker 1: in France or Brussels or or a somewhere overseas for
27:21
Speaker 1: I think it was New Year's for a holiday celebration,
27:24
Speaker 1: and he was referring to them as Jacques and Pierre.
27:27
Speaker 1: I can't remember the fake names he gave his fake friends,
27:30
Speaker 1: and he was actually it was the night of Lacey's
27:35
Speaker 1: vigil where everybody was just torn apart about where was Lacey?
27:41
Speaker 1: And he was ducking and diving, so he wentn't be
27:43
Speaker 1: on TV so all his girlfriends wouldn't find out that
27:46
Speaker 1: he was married to Lazy Peterson. Does anybody remember that
27:51
Speaker 1: Shery White? Or have I lost my mind yet again? No? Absolutely,
27:55
Speaker 1: And he had so many affairs it's hard to count
27:59
Speaker 1: them all. And when Amber found out in contact the police,
28:03
Speaker 1: she then cooperated. Um I believe she was wired or
28:07
Speaker 1: was somehow had recording take the calls. She taped the
28:11
Speaker 1: call and the only way we heard the depth of
28:16
Speaker 1: his deceit was through the calls that she agreed to take. Cheryl,
28:21
Speaker 1: You're right, So what does this amount to Joe Scott
28:24
Speaker 1: So he's saying this on A and E documentary, What
28:28
Speaker 1: what is the point? What is the point? Because if
28:31
Speaker 1: they go through all of the evidence that I think
28:33
Speaker 1: that they will, he will be proven guilty. Yet again,
28:38
Speaker 1: I mean, who are the people he's claiming that saw
28:41
Speaker 1: Lacy after he went to work if excuse me, fishing
28:46
Speaker 1: fishing fish location where her body was found, talking about
28:49
Speaker 1: putting yourself at the scene of the cor But who
28:51
Speaker 1: are these people? I don't know. I think that that's
28:54
Speaker 1: gonna be a big reveal here in this case, the
28:57
Speaker 1: producer is saying that this in no way is going
29:00
Speaker 1: to exonerate uh this fellow uh in in in in
29:06
Speaker 1: this case and take away his guilt. I think that
29:09
Speaker 1: the attorney for Peterson is seeing this as an opportunity
29:13
Speaker 1: to get this back out of the news, to start
29:15
Speaker 1: a buzz with this thing, to try in some way
29:18
Speaker 1: to cast doubt on this case and get him off
29:22
Speaker 1: of death row. And if you remember how the judge
29:25
Speaker 1: came down in this case, and this is in California,
29:27
Speaker 1: made he he framed Peterson as an absolute monster, and he's,
29:32
Speaker 1: you know, in in in in sentencing him to death,
29:36
Speaker 1: which the death penalty is not very popular in California. UM,
29:40
Speaker 1: that's the only thing that I can see that they're
29:41
Speaker 1: attempting to do here to any special regarding Scott Peterson's
29:45
Speaker 1: alleged claims of other witnesses. Airing on A and E,
29:49
Speaker 1: let's see what it proves. Our eyes are on the
29:53
Speaker 1: prize of justice and now on crime stories, boiling tensions
29:58
Speaker 1: outside the courthouse and Charlotte's film as the man suspected
30:01
Speaker 1: of driving his car into a crowd of protesters after
30:04
Speaker 1: a white supremacist rally, was charged with second degree murder.
30:07
Speaker 1: I'm proud of what she did. I'm proud of what
30:12
Speaker 1: she did. Those were the words uttered by the mother
30:16
Speaker 1: of a young woman who was mowed down, dead, dead
30:22
Speaker 1: at what she thought would be a peaceful march. It
30:26
Speaker 1: didn't turn out to be peaceful, and now Heather is
30:31
Speaker 1: dead protesting white supremacist march at Charlottesville. What happened When
30:38
Speaker 1: you see the footage of this on TV and the
30:42
Speaker 1: clips that have been played over and over again, it
30:45
Speaker 1: looks like something you would imagine happening in some other country,
30:49
Speaker 1: But it's right here in our Virginia. What went wrong?
30:55
Speaker 1: And who now is going to jail? I mean, see Grace,
30:59
Speaker 1: this is crime Stories. Thank you for being with us.
31:02
Speaker 1: It's right under our noses. Joining me. Special guest Susan Candiotti,
31:09
Speaker 1: investigative reporter. Also with me, Brian Levin, hate crime expert.
31:14
Speaker 1: Both of you, thank you for being with me. I
31:17
Speaker 1: remember working on one of the first hate crimes that
31:22
Speaker 1: I ever knew of anyway in Inner city Atlanta. I
31:25
Speaker 1: was working on a serial killing of young black gay males.
31:33
Speaker 1: And this was whoa whoa way back in the in
31:36
Speaker 1: the mid eighties. And I don't think that the words
31:41
Speaker 1: hate crime were even um popular at that time. I
31:46
Speaker 1: just knew a guy was murdering young black male gay guys,
31:53
Speaker 1: and the bodies were had piled up, all right, and
31:56
Speaker 1: it was very clear that male black gay were the targets.
32:05
Speaker 1: That's the first time I ever really knew about hate crimes.
32:09
Speaker 1: I knew about crime, but crimes, evil, horrible crimes directed
32:15
Speaker 1: at a particular group, just because they belonged to that group,
32:19
Speaker 1: whatever group it could be. I want to go first
32:23
Speaker 1: to Susan Candiotti, investigative reporters. Susan, break it down for
32:28
Speaker 1: me in a nutshell, give me the takeaway. What happened.
32:31
Speaker 1: What happened is you had in of course, Charlotte'sville over
32:35
Speaker 1: the weekend, Virginia, there was a rally that was staged
32:40
Speaker 1: called for by this group two UH because they were
32:45
Speaker 1: protesting the fact that the city there had voted and
32:49
Speaker 1: agreed to bring down the statue of UH Confederate General Lee. Okay, wait, wait, wait,
32:56
Speaker 1: we're still talking about the Civil War? Are what this
33:01
Speaker 1: is all over? A statue of Robert E. Lee, Confederate
33:04
Speaker 1: or general. Okay, when you say a group, what group
33:09
Speaker 1: is that? The KKK, is that the Arian supremus? Who
33:12
Speaker 1: who's the group? Seems to be a combination of a
33:15
Speaker 1: lot of different groups that came together and be organized.
33:19
Speaker 1: I mean, we know, for example, that infamous leader of
33:22
Speaker 1: the KKK, former leader of the k D, David Duke,
33:25
Speaker 1: was even involved. But you had a number of different groups,
33:28
Speaker 1: including reportedly militia groups, who were also involved in this.
33:32
Speaker 1: Militia groups. Militia groups, what do you mean by militia groups?
33:35
Speaker 1: I always think of a bunch of like, uh, white
33:39
Speaker 1: guys running through the woods on the weekend and a
33:42
Speaker 1: beer keg. What do you mean by militia group? These
33:46
Speaker 1: are people who think that it's time to take back
33:49
Speaker 1: power from the government. But the government is running the
33:53
Speaker 1: country to the degree of removing individual rights, and the
33:58
Speaker 1: government has too much. Okay, wait a minute, Wait a minute.
34:01
Speaker 1: That that may not be half wrong, Susan Candiotti, But
34:04
Speaker 1: what does that have to do with dragging out a
34:05
Speaker 1: statute of Robert E. Lee? I mean, does anybody on
34:10
Speaker 1: the program right now like big government? Because I mean
34:13
Speaker 1: I was a fed and I'm not crazy about the Feds.
34:16
Speaker 1: All right, I'll just put that out there. But why
34:20
Speaker 1: I don't I don't understand how disliking big government, which
34:24
Speaker 1: I really don't know anybody that does like big Everybody
34:26
Speaker 1: in the studio is saying, no, we hate big government. Okay,
34:29
Speaker 1: but that's just us. But what does that have to
34:31
Speaker 1: do with mowing people down dead and dragging down a
34:35
Speaker 1: stad taking down a statute. These are sometimes often, as
34:39
Speaker 1: we know, like minded people who are hearkening back to
34:46
Speaker 1: any interference by the government on individual rights to as
34:50
Speaker 1: many of these groups have said who attended this rally,
34:54
Speaker 1: the idea that the government can mess with history and
34:58
Speaker 1: the fact that a statute representing a leader of a
35:03
Speaker 1: Confederate army can be taken down is again off sign.
35:09
Speaker 1: Many of these groups believe it's interferenced by the government
35:12
Speaker 1: with literally the history of the United States. They take
35:16
Speaker 1: it as an affront. They take it, of course, what
35:18
Speaker 1: did that person represent? That person represented the South, help
35:21
Speaker 1: represented South in the Civil War and states rights to
35:26
Speaker 1: maintain the ability to keep slavery alive in the tent
35:30
Speaker 1: a minute, there's a big difference, I think in arguing
35:34
Speaker 1: for states rights. Because we have states rights. It's a
35:38
Speaker 1: very delicate balance between state power and federal power. But
35:42
Speaker 1: state states right is another issue from slavery, for Pete's sake.
35:47
Speaker 1: So Okay, people are there protest, and I would say cooks,
35:52
Speaker 1: but we've got a dead body, so it's it's I
35:57
Speaker 1: can't really brand them in that way. They're there, and
36:02
Speaker 1: there are counter protesters that are they're arguing with them,
36:07
Speaker 1: So I guess this whole thing is not really about
36:10
Speaker 1: state's rights. It's about people being angry. Some people being
36:16
Speaker 1: angry that what's perceived as a symbol of slavery is
36:21
Speaker 1: going to be pulled down, Robert Elie's statute. And I
36:25
Speaker 1: this moment right now, I am not arguing about Robert E. Lee.
36:30
Speaker 1: All right, I'm not arguing about the Civil War. I'm
36:33
Speaker 1: arguing what had about what happened in Virginia and how
36:37
Speaker 1: could that happen here where you basically have a mob
36:40
Speaker 1: scene that gets out of control protesters and counter protesters
36:44
Speaker 1: and we end up with a body bag. Okay, take
36:47
Speaker 1: me through what happened exactly. So they're they're protesting about
36:51
Speaker 1: a statute, their counter protesters protesting against them, and what
36:55
Speaker 1: happens the group, according to police, that was staging the rally,
37:00
Speaker 1: I did not enter this area where they were supposed to,
37:03
Speaker 1: and they went a different way. Uh. And the two
37:06
Speaker 1: groups confronted each other. Insults and tons were being hurled
37:11
Speaker 1: by both sides. All of a sudden as their people
37:14
Speaker 1: in the middle of the street on the side streets
37:17
Speaker 1: a car bringing to police into all kinds of witnesses
37:20
Speaker 1: and a group of people who are protesting the rally
37:26
Speaker 1: of white supremacists and neo Nazis who had been there
37:28
Speaker 1: the date, being joined by Brian Levin, hate crime expert.
37:34
Speaker 1: Brian put it in a nutshell Vanguard America, the American
37:37
Speaker 1: fascist James Alex Fields Junior, just twenty years old? How
37:41
Speaker 1: can you have be so full of hate at just twenty?
37:46
Speaker 1: I mean I had already survived, just survived the murder
37:49
Speaker 1: of my fiance, was trying to figure out what I
37:51
Speaker 1: could do to fight back against all that pain and
37:56
Speaker 1: anger and and just over will tides of pain. At
38:02
Speaker 1: that age, how do you get so full of hate?
38:05
Speaker 1: He has been arrested and charged with murder two after
38:08
Speaker 1: he allegedly drives his car into a crowd of anti fascist,
38:13
Speaker 1: killing a young woman, mowing her down dead and injuring
38:19
Speaker 1: nearly twenty other people. Photos have recently emerged showing Fields
38:25
Speaker 1: marching with a right wing group known as Van Guard America. Okay,
38:31
Speaker 1: I know who the clan is, and that is a
38:33
Speaker 1: name that has struck fear throughout the South as long
38:38
Speaker 1: as I can remember. Um. Now, when I was a
38:41
Speaker 1: little girl, Brian, I did not know anything at on.
38:45
Speaker 1: This is growing up in the South about hatred, racial hatred, crime, nothing.
38:52
Speaker 1: I would get a little glimpse of hatred on TV
38:55
Speaker 1: at dinner when the world news will be on the
38:57
Speaker 1: six o'clock news. We only got one channel, which CBS,
39:01
Speaker 1: and um, I could you know, see protests going on
39:06
Speaker 1: about maybe Vietnam and angry faces. But we didn't know
39:09
Speaker 1: anything about racial hatred or anything like this. And that's
39:16
Speaker 1: growing up in the South. So I don't understand how now,
39:21
Speaker 1: at this time, two thousand seventeen, this is still festering.
39:26
Speaker 1: It's incredible, isn't it. And you know what's so interesting
39:28
Speaker 1: is you wouldn't have heard of Vanguard America because it's
39:31
Speaker 1: a relatively new group, just a couple of years old,
39:34
Speaker 1: um founded by UH a military event and the night
39:41
Speaker 1: of the rally, they were saying blood and soil, and
39:47
Speaker 1: that blood and soil reference goes back to the Third Reich,
39:50
Speaker 1: along with those torchs like marches a. Brown Shirts used
39:54
Speaker 1: to do that. And it's never wait a minute, wait
39:57
Speaker 1: a minute when you say things like brown shirts, everybody's
40:00
Speaker 1: not steep in the culture of hate like you are
40:02
Speaker 1: no offense. But what what do you mean by brown
40:05
Speaker 1: Sharus who would go out and beat up enemies of Hitler?
40:11
Speaker 1: They were just organized thugs. And what's so interesting is, uh,
40:17
Speaker 1: Vanguard America uses the term blood and soil, which was
40:23
Speaker 1: okay anything that their motto is blood and soil. I
40:25
Speaker 1: want to stay completely away from them. Now they're claiming
40:29
Speaker 1: this guy had nothing to do with them. Van Guard
40:32
Speaker 1: is now saying James Alex Fields Junior, just twenty years old,
40:35
Speaker 1: for peat's sake, had nothing to do with him and
40:37
Speaker 1: was not a member. So why are they implicated in
40:40
Speaker 1: this because they were there marching. Well, he was not
40:42
Speaker 1: only there marching. Mr. Field is not only their marching.
40:45
Speaker 1: He was photographed dressed in the same clothes and carrying
40:49
Speaker 1: the shield Uh that had these symbols on it. So uh,
40:55
Speaker 1: you know you know, I don't know how they're saying
40:57
Speaker 1: he wasn't a member because he came all the way
41:00
Speaker 1: from Ohio. In addition, his high school chief wait, and
41:03
Speaker 1: he came down from Ohio to argue about a statute
41:08
Speaker 1: of Robert Elie. Okay, I'm having a hard time. First
41:13
Speaker 1: of all, it's hard for me, Susan Candiotti, with everything
41:16
Speaker 1: going on in the world, to even imagine how people
41:19
Speaker 1: that have families and and jobs and a life have
41:24
Speaker 1: time on weekend to go trump around arguing about a statute.
41:29
Speaker 1: And while you may respect certain things about Robert Elie,
41:32
Speaker 1: the statute brings up a lot of pain for a
41:35
Speaker 1: lot of people, right, Okay, can we just all accept that?
41:40
Speaker 1: And uh and is a reminder of bad things in
41:46
Speaker 1: the past. So I get the angry feelings of wanting
41:50
Speaker 1: the statute down, all the hate and the pain behind that.
41:56
Speaker 1: His mother has said after this happened, she had no
41:59
Speaker 1: idea eah that her her son was attending this rally.
42:04
Speaker 1: She knew that he was going away, that he told
42:06
Speaker 1: her that he was going to attend to rally of
42:09
Speaker 1: some kind. She thought it was something political, or that
42:12
Speaker 1: it had something to do with I believe she is
42:14
Speaker 1: reported to say President Trump, but she didn't really know
42:16
Speaker 1: what it was all about, and she reportedly told him
42:19
Speaker 1: just stay out of trouble. But this is a young man, Nancy,
42:23
Speaker 1: who when he was growing up in Kentucky, his high
42:28
Speaker 1: school teacher said that this young man had a fascination
42:32
Speaker 1: with Nazi Germany, that he wrote papers about it, very
42:37
Speaker 1: well written papers. And his teacher tried to he admired
42:42
Speaker 1: Nazi Germany and Hitler and what he had done, and
42:46
Speaker 1: his teacher tried to, you know, a steer him in
42:49
Speaker 1: the right direction. Why what's this fascination? Why are you
42:53
Speaker 1: why do you care about this? But he said to no.
42:56
Speaker 1: Avail m. Brian Levin. I want to follow up on that,
42:58
Speaker 1: Brian Levin joining us his warning hate crime expert. So
43:02
Speaker 1: I'm hearing so many different pieces of this puzzle that
43:04
Speaker 1: he grew up basically enamored with Nazi Germany and then
43:09
Speaker 1: transplanted those feelings onto States rights agenda and was there
43:15
Speaker 1: marching in the vanguard brown shirt uniform carrying their their shield.
43:21
Speaker 1: So where does that leave me now? Well, I mean
43:24
Speaker 1: it's the Department of Justice, and I hope they are
43:27
Speaker 1: immediately investigating this as an Act of domestic terrorism. I mean,
43:32
Speaker 1: we're not just fighting isis. We're fighting any hate that
43:37
Speaker 1: ends in death. As far as I'm concerned, I mean,
43:41
Speaker 1: I've been doing it since the eighties, and to me,
43:43
Speaker 1: this is just a new hybrid. Yeah. Well, unfortunately, while
43:46
Speaker 1: we do have a domestic terrorism statute, it really just
43:50
Speaker 1: relies on traditional Plaine Vanilla statutes. So as as Susan
43:54
Speaker 1: who covered the McVeigh trial, uh found that McVeigh was
43:58
Speaker 1: charged under traditional laws. But I can tell you that
44:01
Speaker 1: the Justice Department is vigorously pursuing this. And one of
44:05
Speaker 1: the things that we've seen over the last couple of
44:06
Speaker 1: years has been this explosion of what I call hate
44:10
Speaker 1: mega rallies. Uh. Years ago, Uh, we used to see,
44:16
Speaker 1: you know, a couple of dozen of these hate mongers
44:18
Speaker 1: show up and it's only from one group. In the
44:20
Speaker 1: last two years alone, we've had more of these mega
44:22
Speaker 1: rallies with scores of people are over a hundred, uh,
44:26
Speaker 1: then we had in the previous fifteen years. So this
44:30
Speaker 1: is a disturbing thing. And what's happened is white nationalism
44:35
Speaker 1: has now become a splintered, yet bona fide socio political
44:39
Speaker 1: movement hold on I want to talk to you about
44:41
Speaker 1: hate crime grapes because they're really not on many people's radar.
44:46
Speaker 1: They're on my radar because we would prosecute the resulting murders.
44:51
Speaker 1: At that time, we were not really calling them hate crimes.
44:53
Speaker 1: To prosecute them for murdering, get life behind bars or
44:56
Speaker 1: the death penalty. But when you're saying, hey, grapes, who
44:59
Speaker 1: are are they? How many are they? Where do they meet?
45:03
Speaker 1: To me, they're like roaches. You can't find one, but
45:05
Speaker 1: when you find one, there's a million. As you said,
45:07
Speaker 1: you're more unbold. Now Southern Party loss in their accounts
45:12
Speaker 1: increase from the previous year. Um, But where do they meet?
45:16
Speaker 1: How do they recruit? I want to know the details.
45:19
Speaker 1: I don't I don't care about all the statistics. Who
45:21
Speaker 1: are these people? A lot of them are, particularly these ones,
45:24
Speaker 1: you're younger people who are white males, consider themselves disenfranchised
45:29
Speaker 1: and the organized over social media. Do you think this
45:32
Speaker 1: whole thing can be traced and prosecuted through social media?
45:34
Speaker 1: Because it's not just the one young woman dad. There
45:38
Speaker 1: are also two Virginia State Police dead. Uh one of
45:44
Speaker 1: them Lieutenant Cullen, just forty eight years old. And Trooper
45:49
Speaker 1: Pilot Bates both dead at the scene. They were in
45:53
Speaker 1: a Virginia State Police helicopter. They're both dead, and in
45:58
Speaker 1: my mind, I don't see why this is not going
46:00
Speaker 1: to be prosecuted as a death penalty case because in
46:03
Speaker 1: my mind, there are three dead bodies as a result
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Speaker 1: of these hate acts. You know what, if the FEDGE
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Speaker 1: come in and charge it under the hate crime statue,
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Speaker 1: you could get the death penalty. It's not always um
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Speaker 1: easy to tackle what's happening right now, but it's in
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Speaker 1: our backyard, on our American soil. This is not some
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Speaker 1: hateful mob in another country where death occurs. This is
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Speaker 1: right here. Nancy Grace Crime Stories signing off, goodbye friend,