Latest / The Lawtino™ / Building a Legacy Through Law, Mentorship, and Resilience

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Building a Legacy Through Law, Mentorship, and Resilience · The Lawtino™

• 0:01
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to the Latino podcast where we discuss the intersection of law and our Latino communities with legal, political, and community leaders and visionaries.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_00: Let's get started.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_03: Hey everyone, it's John Gomez.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_03: Welcome to this episode of the Latino where we discuss the intersection of law in our Latino communities.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_03: We're pleased to present the perspectives and voices of leading Latino lawyers, judges, lawmakers, and community influencers.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_03: Today, uh, as part of my hosting team, I'm joined by uh senior trial attorney Laura Dietst, uh, who is uh trial lawyer with us at Gomez Trial Attorneys, also a board member of La Rata Lawyers uh organization, very involved in uh Latino-Latina leadership in our community.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_03: Super pleased to have her with us.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_03: We also have Vanessa Felix Corona, who is an aspiring uh lawyer here, works as a uh law clerk with us now, is going to be taking the California bar shortly.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_03: Um, also very involved in the La Rata lawyers uh and students community.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_03: Um, most notably really uh coordinated and came together for a tri-city, a tri-school mixer here at the law firm.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_03: Also, um I will promote your own podcast that I saw.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_03: What's the name of your podcast?
• 1:31
  unknown: It's called Making It Make Sense by Latinas Exec.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, Making It Make Sense by Latinas Exec.
• 1:38
  unknown: Yes.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_03: Which I well, you tell us what that's about.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_01: So Latinas Exec is a program that me and another law student from one of the locals' law schools created, and it's essentially a platform.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_01: We have a website where we want high schoolers or undergrad students that are interested in becoming lawyers or going into law school.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_01: We help them with admissions, uh resumes, personal statements, and we also help them like answering any questions and just helping them network and get into law school and live the dream.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_03: Super cool.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, thank you.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_03: And so um today I think we're we're joined by a guest that really makes us feel proud, very grateful that he came all the way down here.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_03: He actually uh his wonderful wife Blanca actually uh traveled with him today uh from their home in Los Angeles.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_03: Um today we welcome um retired uh chief judge, formerly district judge, formerly amazing trial lawyer, uh Philip Gutierrez, um originally from East Los Angeles, uh, then found its way out to South Bend, Indiana.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_03: And I know Jessica Lujan is ruined the fact that she's not with us today.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_03: Jessica, um, her uh daughter is matriculating from grade school to middle school today, and the daughter is a dynamo, so like she's there today, but she's very um sad she can't be with us because she's a proud domer.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_03: Um and then um Judge uh Gutierrez uh went on to East CLA Law School, a very esteemed uh career as a trial lawyer himself, then uh served our nation as a district court judge appointed by uh George W.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_03: Bush, uh, and then on to um George W.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_03: Bush.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, and then on to serve as our the chief of the central district, obviously, you know, one of the most important federal courts in the country.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_03: Um and so we're just so honored to have you here with us today, Judge.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you for coming.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_04: Thanks for having me.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_03: Looking forward to it.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_03: And it it's so cool, like full circle, like Vanessa's talking about, you know, developing you know young future Latino Latina uh lawyers.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_03: And um I know, Judge, that you're very interested in mentoring and developing and helping young people find their way.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_03: The funny thing is, we we met each other, me and the judge, at a conference at uh UCSD, which is uh a local uh university, they were putting on a call uh uh a forum for you know mainly aspiring law students.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_03: I spoke, Judge spoke, and we we connected and he, oh yeah, I put up, because I I'm like a salesperson.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_03: I'm like, you gotta you gotta you gotta listen to my podcast.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_03: He saw the podcast and said, I want to be on the podcast.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_03: I was like, you want to be on my podcast?
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_03: So so thank you so much for being here, Judge.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_03: It's absolutely right.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_04: I saw I heard your story.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_04: We were we were talking to college students who were aspiring to be uh lawyers going to law school, so the program was was basically to give encouragement and hope and guidance to 200 college students.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_04: So I gave my story and uh Mr.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_04: Gomez gave his story, and I think we connected.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_04: We were both so impressed with each other.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_04: Uh just uh looking forward to talking to you today.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, likewise, Judge.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_03: You know, so um let's roll it back all the way to the beginning.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_03: You told me you grew up in East Los Angeles, um, and so like a lot of our listeners, you know, come from areas like that.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and it's always great to see people that have come out of those communities and done great things.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_03: What was childhood like for you?
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_04: Well, you know, um I grew up in ESLA.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_04: Um, as you said, it was probab uh predominantly probably 95% uh Latino uh population at the time.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_04: I was the youngest of four kids.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_04: Uh my mother was single.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_04: Uh my dad unfortunately had problems with alcohol and drugs.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_04: So uh I think because of that, I was I was uh kind of, I guess the right word is a hallion.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_04: I was I was acting out, not not behaving too well.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_04: And uh my mother had we had the good fortune to send me to a parochial school, but the nuns always wanted to throw me out every year uh because of the trouble I was raising.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_04: So finally uh we talk about mentorship.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_04: I think finally when I was in seventh grade, one of the one of the uh Benedictine brothers there uh saw something in me and took me aside and actually taught me how to play tennis and would take me around to tennis tournaments and expose me to a whole different uh population of things and uh different things that uh uh you could do that I had never been exposed to.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_04: So he was sort of the first my my first mentor uh who you know uh had faith in me.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_04: But yeah, but my mom went to a teacher conference with him, and it was the first time she heard good things about me, and she was just flabbergasted and amazed.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_04: So anyway, he was the first person who really inspired me to do to do uh different things.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_04: That's so cool.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_04: And so do you still play tennis?
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_04: I watch tennis, I watched the French Open this week.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_04: I as every tennis player I have problems with my shoulder, so yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_04: I can hit ground strokes still pretty good, but I don't play as office enough.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, it was a lifetime gift.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_03: But you know, like your single mom, you know, uh doing her thing, and unfortunately, you know, sorry about your dad.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_03: But I suspect your mom was probably a pretty strong lady.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_04: Oh yeah.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_04: Um we were talking about that earlier before the cast, and uh um my mother worked at the East Los Angeles Municipal Court.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_04: She was a courtroom clerk.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_04: So since the age of six, we talked about you know, mentoring high school students, it's all about exposure, right?
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_04: And so my mother had the vision that she would take me to court and uh I would meet whatever judge she was working for, whatever them happened.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_04: The first judge she worked for was uh uh Judge Takasuki, who ended up being a federal judge and uh ultimately another mentor to me.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_04: And then I would, you know, play around in the courtroom with the district attorney and the public defender and the interpreters uh and the clerk's office.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_04: So she at a very early age had this vision that somehow the uh the law was going to be part of my my life.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_04: I yeah.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_04: She was right.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_04: She she was yeah.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_04: So we were talking again earlier, and it says, like, you know, did you when did you realize you wanted to become a judge?
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_04: And I this I tell people the same thing all the time.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_04: It was my mother's idea for me to become a judge.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_04: And uh being the great mother that she was, she got me to believe later in life that it was my idea.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, yeah, yeah.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_04: But she I think she uh she knew all along what she was doing uh when she when she took me to court, you know, most days.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_03: That's so cool.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_03: And so, you know, as your you know, mom takes you in, you're watching maybe a trial or whatever.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_03: Did you do you remember in those days thinking that one day that would be you, or were you just kind of taking it all in?
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_04: I was just taking it all in.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_04: I was having fun.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_04: It was just, you know, um just watching uh the courtroom drama.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_04: Uh then afterwards being, you know, being introduced to words that you know are familiar to all us now, but I remember one particularly uh bigger hearing and everybody was using the word stipulation.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_04: Stipulation.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_04: And I I I go up to the district attorney, what is a stipulation?
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_04: So even at that early age, learning learning the lingo of the courtroom, but also I think more than anything, also it was home, right?
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_04: It was I was a c I was perfectly comfortable there, but I didn't have it in my mind that I was just having fun.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_04: Yes, and uh never had in mind that someday I was gonna be at council table or on the bench or anywhere else.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_04: Where was she uh clerk?
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_04: What court?
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_04: Uh East Los Angeles, uh municipal court before unification.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_03: And the the I I don't know if you remember if it made an impact on you, but at that time, you know, were there any Latino prosecutors or defense lawyers or there were a few.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_04: Uh uh a couple of public defenders and DA and DAs that were Latino and ultimately became judges.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_04: Uh but there it was there weren't very many, not not not like today.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_04: Uh but no, there weren't very many.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_04: Uh how about judges?
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_04: Um one of the judges she worked for was Judge Vega.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_04: So there was that was a small court, you remember the municipal court days.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_04: There was five judges, I would always say probably one or two uh were Latinos who had previously been DAs or city attorneys in Los Angeles who ultimately became uh judges.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_04: And that also too was inspiring to me to see.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_04: Uh I I don't think we asked the question now, but I didn't think I realized the significance of seeing some someone who looked like you uh on the bench.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_04: But then but I guess on the other hand, too, it just made it totally natural that it was you know a possibility.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that's so cool.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_03: That's I mean, it's a little bit, you know, you can call it fortuitous or you can call it God's plan that He had your mom working in the course.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_03: You know, like it was all it was all set to happen.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_04: I think that, yeah, like you know, I'm my mother, I'm sure, I like like I said, she she knew what she was doing.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_04: Exactly.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_04: This all goes back to mom.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_03: It's so cool that that you had um uh a person from the church, uh a male leader influential in your development and you know exposure, because you know, as I was telling you before we started, uh one of our lawyers here, Jessica Lujan, her dad, you know, painted the murals here in our podcast room.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_03: And one of the prominent figures is um this priest, um, tú eres mi otro yo.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_03: Um and uh Jessica really gives him a lot of credit for her development and being a mentor to her.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_03: And you know, we hear like a lot of criticism of the Catholic Church these days, and you know, I was raised Catholic.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_03: Um, my kid goes to a Catholic school, and I personally am a big fan of the Catholic Church.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_03: I feel like they do a lot of great work for a lot of great people, and obviously for you.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_04: I was very fortunate that I'll give him a shout-out because we probably will listen to the podcast.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_04: He's he's he's now in his 80s, but uh he was he was brother Hillary McGuire.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_04: He lives in San Diego now.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, really?
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_04: And uh he's not a brother anymore, but he's he's now married and has kids.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_04: But he was he was the first person that was instrumental.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_04: And as you mentioned, uh, you know, after after that I went to Cantwell High School in in Montebello.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_04: And there again, there was another mentor.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_04: He wasn't uh he he wasn't a cleric, but uh uh James Moran, uh who was my English teacher for three years and an algebra teacher for half a year, and and uh he wasn't very good at algebra, he was he was an English person, English major guy.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_04: And uh so if you watched the Notre Dame football game that weekend you could at least get one word problem correct.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_04: So if Notre Dame scored X, what did Purdue score, you know?
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, yeah.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_04: And so he basically taught Notre Dame for for three years.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_04: And so that was the influence that that got me to go from East LA to Campbell High School to Notre Dame.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_04: Uh he pretty much convinced a group of us, uh it was again probably 90% Latino at the time, and uh he convinced probably about ten kids that you're gonna go out of state for school.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_04: And so uh he persuaded uh peers that went in Yale, Columbia, um, Notre Dame, Penn, Cornell.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_04: So he was just a another uh instrumental super person.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_04: Is he still around, do you know?
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_04: He's still around.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_04: He lives in he lives in uh San Gabriel.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_04: Oh cool.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_03: That would be cool both if uh now Mr.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_03: McGuire and Mr.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_03: Moran were able to listen and like reflect upon the you know the effect they had on you in your life and all and as a result all the people whose lives you've touched.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I never would have it never would have imagined it, but talk some more about it.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_04: As you know, it's the as a kid in East LA, first of all, learning how to play tennis and community competing uh at the high school level and tournament tennis, and then you know, going to Cantwell High School as a freshman, never would have imagined myself ever in South Bend.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, uh Indiana.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_04: I couldn't even, it wasn't even on the on the radar at all.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_04: Did you like it?
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_04: Um like anybody else, my first semester I was so cold.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_04: Uh it was the worst winter in Notre Dame history.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_04: It was the first time that Notre Dame ever shut down for three days.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_04: Oh wow.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_04: And so it was a it was a culture shock.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_04: Um there weren't very many Latinos at Notre Dame at the time.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_04: Uh the only other Latinos that I remember are Gilberto Salinas, who was seven foot tall from Texas, and he was on the basketball team.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_03: Oh.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_03: And uh Chuck is seven foot.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_03: I was I was waiting for the kicker.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_03: I thought you meant the kicker.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_04: And uh there was such uh Chuck Aragon from New Mexico who ran the first sub-minute uh mile, four-minute mile track.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_04: And then there was I don't even remember his name, but he was an obnoxious guy from Texas that we called the mouth from the south.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_04: And then it was uh it was just me who didn't have any athletic ability, at least I didn't know.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_03: Tennis player.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_04: Well, not not good enough to play college.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_04: No, not there yet.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_04: But those were the only folks that I I knew of, except uh uh the only other Latinos there were the groundskeepers.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, sure.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_04: And that was it.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I watched, let me ask you about that because um because I watched this movie, I forget what it's called.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_03: It's uh maybe you guys saw it, maybe it's about I think they're in Texas, and there's this Mexican dude, he's a teacher, and he likes to golf.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_03: And then and then there's like some Mexican kids that work at the club as bad boy, what a caddies.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_03: And then they would like play golf like in the field, but then he develops them into a team.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_03: Do you see it?
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_03: I saw it a few months ago, actually.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_04: I don't remember the name of it though.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_04: I can't remember he was not allowed into the country club, right?
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_03: And even though he was a great golfer himself, and they barely like he almost had to show up by surprise with his golf team to compete with all the Mexican kids.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_03: But the reason I bring it up, okay, so here's here's the thing that almost made me cry, is they get to the championship and they they won the championship, but they they cheated to take it away.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_03: But and so there's a period of time where he brings the team into the clubhouse, they just kind of walk through, and all the Mexican men are like waiting tables or cleaning the tables, and you can see them look at these guys with such pride in their eyes.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and so I wonder, like, um they probably looked at you and felt that way.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_04: Well, it was you know, it it's a special place, but and I think um everybody there, I mean, just despite the the the lack of of Latinos at the at the university, I think I was always treated there with such dignity and respect.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_04: And whether it was our uh the the people in the cafeteria or the people that were in the dorms uh cleaning the cleaning up after the messy messy men, uh it was just a a very positive place.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_04: Um everybody was I thought treated with a lot of dignity and respect.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_04: It was I think something ingrained.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I mean I I'll tell you what, I would love for my boy to find his way there.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I don't know if it'll happen, you know, but it's a dream of mine that he would, and he's he's now come around to that way of thinking.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_03: He's he's a he's a fighting Irish fan.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_04: One of the you asked me if if I if I was happy my first year, I I was so miserable at the time, homesick, but I I say this my college roommate is we we ended up being roommates for three years.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_04: We we we visit him every year in Chicago, so we're still friends after all these after all these years.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_04: But I was so miserable, I was uh I was uh got early to my Spanish class, and I don't remember her name.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_04: She walks in and I said, Oh, what are you up to?
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_04: And she says, Oh, I just went to the study abroad office.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_04: And she said, Where where are you gonna go?
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_04: He says, Mexico City.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_04: And I said, I thought it was too late to study abroad.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_04: He goes, No, today today's the last day.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_04: So after that Spanish class, I go to the study abroad uh office and uh decide I'm gonna apply to go somewhere.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_04: So there were there were three options for me.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_04: Uh one was Japan, because that program was in English, the other place was Mexico City, and the third place was Ireland.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_04: And I said to myself, well, if I'm really homesick, I'm gonna be really homesick in Japan.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_04: And I said, I live in California, so someday I'm gonna get to Mexico City.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_04: So out of the blue, I just decided I was gonna go to Ireland, and I got accepted to the Ireland program and spent my sophomore year in Ireland, and again, never would have dreamed.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_04: The whole year?
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_04: The whole year.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, cool.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_04: Um and uh we went to it was St.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_04: Patrick's College, Manute, which is the National Seminary, so all my male friends were clerics or studying to be priest, and my my friends from Notre Dame and St.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_04: Mary's College across the street who were in the program, we we went to school with the Irish kids.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_04: Um they were all Irish.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_04: I was the only only Latino.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_04: And um uh the I had a great year there.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_04: Um and but it was the funny thing was it was about it, the interesting experience was um they would ask me, um, what are you?
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_04: And he said, you know, I would say, well, I'm a Mexican.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_04: Well, you know, you're not a Mexican, you're an American, but you're kind of different.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_04: But it was again another great year, uh, a very uh beautiful place, beautiful people, and then that developed my interest in literature.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, really?
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_04: And then I went back for my last two years and majored in English.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_03: So like like Wordsworth and some like the English classics or yeah, well, a lot of Irish writers.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_04: Oh uh and uh Who's that really famous Irish writer?
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_04: Like uh uh Yates.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, yeah, that's right.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_04: So yeah, um he wrote a book called I'm gonna get this wrong, but uh Portrait of an Artist as a young man that I like.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_04: And I ended up writing a short story that hopefully no one no one ever sees.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_04: A portrait of a young domer as a young man, a portrait of a domer as a young man.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, cool.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_04: Uh so anyway.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_04: Uh it was a again, different places that I never thought I would thought I would be.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_03: Super neat.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_03: Like, first you got out of East Losis playing some tennis, and then you end up in Indiana, and then you end up in now Ireland.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_03: Um you're making your mark at a pretty young age.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_04: We were pretty, I think I was uh I was young at my uh at the time, it was I think when I was in Ireland, I was 18 and 19 years old.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_04: Have you ever read Angela's Ashes?
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_04: Yes, it's it's I I read it because our kids had to read it.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_04: Oh really?
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, it was part of the curriculum in high school.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_04: That's gotta be the most depressing book.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_04: Oh man.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_04: It just is a bad thing after another keeps happening to the family.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_04: You guys never read it?
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_04: Mm-hmm.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's just it's uh it's a book about basically this kid grows up poor in Ireland and um I think single mom, right?
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_03: And then, you know, like she's kind of trading herself, you know.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_03: It's just it's a and but I I could I could relate a lot to it, you know, like it's just it's the story of the Irish in the sense of horror.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_04: Horrible things happen and keep happening, but despite that, the spirit they keep their chin up, right?
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_04: They keep the chin up, the spirit.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_04: And there was a lot of similarity, I thought, between the Mexican culture and the Irish culture, whether it's uh family, family, church, church, music, struggles, literature, and it was just always finding the positive things out of the most negative things possible and just uh persevering.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_03: Amen.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_04: That's beautiful.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_03: So uh like when you're in Ireland at that point, are you already looking towards law school?
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_04: No, uh I was uh I was just trying to I one of the advices well the advice I got from Jim Moran was to was to do things that I liked.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_04: So that's when I f I f I started to realize how much I enjoyed reading, writing, and speaking about what I had read.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_04: So I was just uh fortunate enough to find something like uh literature that I just uh enjoyed and was having fun.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_04: So basically, while other people were studying or working, I I was actually having fun reading books.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_04: I you know, it was it was really wasn't work anymore.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, it took a lot of time, it was a lot of effort, but I was really doing something I enjoyed and then enjoyed writing about it, and then I enjoyed uh going to class and talking about it, what we read.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_03: And so um we'll go from you know Ireland and Notre Dame now, we're gonna go to law school.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_03: So I thought Vanessa, maybe you could talk about the law school chapter, you could talk about the lawyer chapter, because people are getting tired of hearing from me.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_03: So take it away, Vanessa.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, perfect.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so when you started law school, how did you how did you start?
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_01: Did you just start your applications?
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_01: Did you start writing your statements first?
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_01: Uh how did you pick the law school you wanted to go to?
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_04: It was it was not it, I would not recommend the course that I took uh to go to law school.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_04: It was very unscripted, unplanned, not in any way disciplined.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_04: Uh as I majored in English, you know, I was the first person in my family to go to college, and I think they were disappointed that I was an English major because what are you gonna, you know, what are you gonna do with English as a major?
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_04: And unfortunately, they were probably right.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_04: So my senior year, I'm trying to figure out what am I gonna do with this English major, and uh fortunately I had a couple of um people living around me in the dorms who were applying to law school, and they sold me on the idea.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_04: We just started talking and uh uh they were applying, so I just went along for the ride and I started studying with them.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_04: Um they didn't have I didn't have classes at the time, we just all had the same books, and we'd kind of go on you know, go to different places and study together, and and took the LSAT, and then um followed their lead and applying.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_04: I knew that because of the weather I wanted to come back to California, so I only applied to California schools, wasn't even quite sure I was gonna, I just was gonna see what happened.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_04: And um I got into UCLA, so uh I said they may not make the same mistake twice.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_04: So I said I so I I came back home to Los Angeles and uh decided to go to law school.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_04: And I think because it was unscripted, again, I was the first person in my family to go to law school, I didn't quite realize how serious law school was, as well, you know, how act how rigorous it was going to be.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_04: So when I showed up the the the first week, I was just overwhelmed.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_04: And um how serious people took it.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_04: I was you know, went to the next football game.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, that's what I was used to.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_04: And so all of a sudden um there were people that really wanted to do this, really were excited about it, and I was just trying to find my way.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_04: Did okay my first year, but really didn't know if I belonged in the place or not, or what future I had in the law, just didn't didn't feel comfortable, and then an out of the blue, uh I get sent another mentor.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_04: I decided to extern in the Central District of California in federal court for uh Judge David Williams, who happened to be uh one of the first African-American federal judges in the country.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_04: And um he just gave me a lot of responsibility, and then he was the one who just kind of made me realize I would go into court and watch court again, but this time as a sort of an insecure law student, and then I would see lawyers argue, and I thought, I I I can do that.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, good.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_04: And then I would see writings that they had submitted, and then I said, I certainly can do that.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_04: And then just Judge Williams just, you know, uh always always encouraging, always um, you know, uh very positive about the work I was doing.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_04: And then that was sort of the turning point for me in my second year of law school that I belonged, that I I actually did belong, and I I could be successful at uh doing this.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_03: That must have been a nice feeling.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_04: It was, you know, yeah, it was like a um the light bulb went on, the the light switch.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_04: It was just that dramatic because that was my second semester of law school, and you're still, what am I gonna do?
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_04: Uh I'm I'm just surviving or you know, not really enjoying myself, and then that he just turns the light switch on.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_01: Would you say that your exant kind of helped you overcome that feeling of being overwhelmed and feeling like you didn't belong, almost like imposter syndrome?
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_04: Exactly.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_04: I think that's exactly right.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_04: Imposure syndrome, um, I'm over my head.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_04: Uh, I don't, you know, even though I was exposed by then, you know, I'm now an adult, and you know, there's not other lawyers you necessarily can talk to.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_04: I did have Judge Takazuki to talk to, but you you still that doesn't necessarily cure your self-doubt.
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_04: So that getting rid of self-doubt comes from inside.
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_04: Uh, not you know, you have positive influences, but you don't stop doubting until you really believe in yourself, and that's was the switch that that uh he helped me make to believe.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_01: Did you ever extern at a law firm?
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_01: Because I know you said your first year you started at the courts, and I know you said you grew up going into the courts, so like going into law school, did you know you wanted to be an extern at a court?
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_04: I knew I wanted to be an extern.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_04: Um, I just wanted that experience at about the same time and different lawyer, Dominic Rubokava, who uh was another him and his wife set up a scholarship for UCLA student, and I was the second recipient of this of his thing.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_04: So he he paid for my law school my last two years.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_04: Wow, and also too, he was he was as here Dominic says that you know when he was leaving law school, there was this room, everybody was in the room, and he was trying to figure out how to get into the room.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_04: There's important things happening in that room, and he had to figure out how to get in the room.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_04: Dominic was the person who figured out how to get in the room.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_04: So Dominic became a very um close friend of uh Mayor Tom Bradley, uh was a supporter of his and uh was on the fire the DWP commission, the fire.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_04: So all of a sudden, that after law school, he's he's introducing me to different folks who sort of lead on the judicial path because part of the judicial path is um knowing people who are going to recommend you um to the bench.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_04: So again, just and how did I meet Dominic?
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_04: My mother.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_04: Dominic was visiting one of the judges at the courthouse, and my mother got word that he gave a scholarship to a Latino UCLA law student.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_04: So before I know it, uh I'm I've got Dominic's number and I call him up and I meet him and his wife, and then the scholarship comes.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_04: So it was again my mother.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_04: The master manipul manipulator.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_03: Did you uh I just was curious, like when you came back to UCLA, did you ever live at home with your mom or I did.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_04: Um I was my last year of law school, I lived at home.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_04: I just wanted um uh I was I was getting too caught up in the study groups and and the the pressure, and I just wanted to come home and kind of be normal again.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_04: Uh so I would study at the library, drive home from UCLA late at night, and then just kind of have a kind of a normal 10 months of uh of people just treating me like Philip.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_01: Were you involved at all in any student organizations at your school or community organizations during law school?
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_04: I was involved in La uh La Rossa.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_04: Um I worked a lot.
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_04: Um you asked me if I I worked through uh a lot after my first year of law school, I worked at a small firm.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_04: Uh so I was working about 20 hours a week and then full time in the summer uh was a small uh uh small uh uh PI firm.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_04: And uh that was Anthony Dettel's Rez.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_04: And he he just again gave me a lot of responsibility.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_04: Uh I'm sure the response kind of responsibility you're getting here, uh, but that also was a confidence builder, the trust that he gave me.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_04: And so when I before I went to a medium-sized firm, I was a lawyer uh with him for for for two years.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_04: And um within a few weeks I was taking depositions and doing arbitrations, and uh within two years of doing my first trial.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_04: Um that's your cue, Laura.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I don't now want to hear about this.
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_02: So obviously, it's uh it sounds like you started off, you know, your your career as an attorney on the plaintiff's side.
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_02: Um so I kind of walk me through what that was like in your first trial.
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_02: Obviously, that has such a meaningful impact.
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_04: My first trial was on the defense side.
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_04: There was one thing that I admire about the entrepreneurship of a of a plaintiff's firm.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_04: I literally, you know, when I did my first binding arbitration for a plaintiff, I was worried sick.
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_04: I just felt that if I let him down, I was it was it was a big deal.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_04: It wasn't just about money, it was about uh making sure I didn't let him down.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_04: We we we we got a fair award in the arbitration, uh, but it worried me sick.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_04: Um my first trial was on the defense side.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_04: So by that time, Tony had gone to a firm that did some uh products liability work aviation.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_04: So I got on to a team uh that did helicopter crash cases.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_04: So um it was all again dumb luck.
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_04: So I was working on the case, and um I was supposed to meet the head lawyer in uh Mesa, Arizona, that's where uh the company had moved, to help prepare expert depositions.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_04: And it turns out that the partner got Legionnaire's disease in Philadelphia, and there I was by myself in Mesa, Arizona, and nobody else could come out to help me because it just is it was just a disaster.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_04: So for the first part of the week I was preparing our um experts and our pilot expert.
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_04: And so, and then at the end of the week I defended three expert depositions after this is my second year of law school, after law school.
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_04: Wow, so it was just dumb luck.
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_04: And then the case gets tried in Fresno, and so um I'm the low-level associate, so I'm not gonna be at the trial necessarily.
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_04: But uh there was a bunch of pretrial motions that I had written, and the the the partner was joking around and says, I I don't understand.
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_04: So I went go up to Fresno to argue.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_04: One day I have motions and alumni.
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_04: I don't have a change of clothes.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_04: The motions go for four days.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_04: There's no hotel rooms, I'm sleeping on the floor of the of the of the partner's room.
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_04: Um, the other lawyers were all bigger than me.
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_04: Uh, other defense lawyers are giving me their shirts, their white shirts.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_04: And I just remember Friday flying back from Fresno, probably the most the most stinky person on the after four days.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_04: So then that involved me in a it was a two-month product liability trial.
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_04: So that that was my first trial with somebody else, and then led to other adventures.
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_02: That's amazing, especially because you just shared, you know, like in law school, you had that aha moment where you felt like you belonged.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm assuming, you know, as a new attorney, you're insecure.
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_02: We've all been there, you're wanting to prove yourself, and so that probably really solidified that for you and kind of gave you a sense of more security in what you were doing, showing that you were upright and were able to prove your own and hold your own.
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_04: It was just uh you were like I think almost for any good new lawyer is when you're throwing into things, and you know, you prepare, you work hard.
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_04: I was too it it happened so quickly, I couldn't be nervous.
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_04: I just had you just had to go in and figure this out and and defend your expert depositions and uh make sure they went as well as they could go as well.
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_04: And I learned how to fly a plot, I learned how to fly a helicopter during that week.
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, because the the the test pilot, one of the theories was uh was was um pilot error, and I'd never flown a helicopter, and uh most of the people in that business were ex-military who had flown different things.
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_04: So I was one of the lawyers in the room that had flown anything.
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_04: So we went over the Arizona Desert and he was showing me how to land a helicopter without power through power rotations.
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_04: So we spent about three or four hours with dual controls on a helicopter so that I could finally understand what he was saying in terms of pilot air.
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I feel trial attorneys in particular sometimes it takes a particular person.
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_02: You know, so many people go into law school wanting to become an attorney, but not everyone's made out for being in the courtroom.
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_02: So did that kind of scratch an itch and kind of solidify that you wanted to continue to litigate because you continue to litigate for the rest of your career, you know, before um going onto the bench, correct?
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, one of the things I think for people to be successful, and when I do talk to you know former law clerks or student groups, you have to you have to like or at least it's better if you love what you do, but if you gotta at least like it.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_04: And so I knew right away that I loved it.
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_04: I I it was just uh a passion for me.
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_04: And if you like if you like or love something, something you're usually pretty good at it.
• 37:03
  SPEAKER_04: Um so if you have that kind of uh passion uh for what you do, it like you said about reading books, it's not work anymore.
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_04: It was hard work, long hours, preparation, but you know, I was loving it.
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_02: So, what did you continue, you know?
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_02: Obviously, following this trial, um, from what I understand, you moved on to a bigger firm.
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_02: What type of cases did you continue to litigate?
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_04: That ended being the the the firm did uh one of the reasons that I was they were try were attracted by me, I had just done this trial.
• 37:33
  SPEAKER_04: And um so I walk, I I I uh I had a headhunter, and uh you know, she's you know, have you heard of this firm?
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_04: And I say, Yeah, sure, sure.
• 37:45
  SPEAKER_04: And um so she puts me in contact, and I was tired of driving all uh a long distance in Los Angeles, but I still wanted to work in downtown LA.
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_04: I was working at the time in Westwood, long drive.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_04: So I'm talking to the partner, and uh we're we're hitting it off this telephone interview, and she tells me, This is but you understand this is for the Orange County office.
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_04: And so I didn't I didn't understand that and didn't want to sound desperate.
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_04: So I said, Oh yeah, sure, sure.
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_04: And so I interviewed in in Orange County and went to their Orange County, which was a smaller branch, and I think that was also helpful.
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_04: So I walk in the first day, and on my desk are five, ten files, there were legal malpractice cases.
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_04: And none of the other young lawyers or new lawyers wanted to handle the legal malpractice cases because they said that the lawyers' clients were difficult.
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_04: I loved it because uh I was able to try cases, uh criminal law, property, uh, divorce, bankruptcy, all kinds of different expertise.
• 38:59
  SPEAKER_04: Uh and I would just have to learn or hire the expert to teach me what should have happened in this bankruptcy, what should have happened in this dissolution, what why was this will and trust prepared properly or not properly?
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_04: All these different um it didn't a criminal case, a malpractice, I'd have a criminal case.
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_04: And so I just again loved it because I was learning something different every file.
• 39:24
  SPEAKER_04: And also uh usually became friends with the opposing side and usually became friends with my client.
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_04: And um that led to being on the bench in the sense because many of my former clients became judges, and they didn't do anything wrong in their cases, but uh, they started encouraging me to apply, and then the partner that talked to me on the phone who hired me was the managing partner, and then she started she encouraged me when I was 35 to apply to the bench.
• 39:56
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, it definitely gave you foundation in so many different areas of the law, which you know obviously so many people that do eventually become judges don't have the opportunity.
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_02: You got to kind of dip your toes in a variety of different areas of law, which really sets the foundation for you becoming a judge.
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_04: It did.
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_04: It was it was a great training ground.
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_04: Um when I first took the bench, uh I I had handled one criminal case, and that it was a criminal, the legal malpractice case, but I never practiced in criminal law.
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_04: So of course my first assignment on the on the bench was criminal law, doing misdemeanors and then doing felonies, felony trials.
• 40:33
  SPEAKER_04: So it was it gave me that confidence that I I could learn this and uh and handle it.
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_02: Was that you know, and then I'll hand it off to John asked you questions about you know your experience on the bench, but I guess given the experience that you had with a variety of different areas of law and then kind of that being a driving force and kind of feeling that confidence, was there anything else in addition that really drove you to you know becoming a judge and um going onto the bench and really making a meaningful impact?
• 41:03
  SPEAKER_04: I think it was a um uh public service, I think, you know, because even though I was I was 37 when I became a judge, um I had the sense that I really hadn't done much to give back to the community.
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_04: Um and so part of it was was that that it was time, you know, I made a decent living, and it was time to to do something to give back to the community.
• 41:30
  SPEAKER_04: So that's when I made it a point to become more of a mentor.
• 41:33
  SPEAKER_04: Um I would speak to whoever wanted invited me, whether it'd be a grammar school, uh reading at a grammar, you know, reading to first graders, second graders, whatever it was, especially at the municipal court, you're so close to the people around you that there was a lot of opportunity to do that.
• 41:53
  SPEAKER_04: And I thought also, too, I thought it was important.
• 41:55
  SPEAKER_04: We started off the podcast by talking about um uh my father.
• 42:00
  SPEAKER_04: And I thought it was important, so when I went to high schools or even grammar schools to talk about my father and sort of to present the picture to the kids or the high school student, that just despite the fact that you had a uh a dad with uh uh and divorced parents, and you know that you walk into a classroom, you probably 50% of the kids come from broken homes.
• 42:23
  SPEAKER_04: And so it was the idea to me to speak to as many people as possible to make them understand or believe and to see me that I didn't have to be the victim of those kinds of circumstances and the story could end well for the kids that I was talking to.
• 42:39
  SPEAKER_04: So that's why I made it a point to always, when I spoke at high schools, grammar schools, to talk about my family so that they could see that what was going on behind closed doors could be overcome.
• 42:52
  SPEAKER_02: It's great because I feel like you know, there's this preconceived notion where you know, if you want to become a successful attorney, so many people think, okay, you have to come from a certain particular, you know, family or background, etc.
• 43:02
  SPEAKER_02: So I think that that's great that you went and spoke to so many different people to show you don't have to be raised a particular way.
• 43:08
  SPEAKER_02: You know, every attorney in the successful whatnot comes from a different story.
• 43:12
  SPEAKER_02: So I think that's really empowering and great that you did that.
• 43:17
  SPEAKER_04: We had a great story.
• 43:18
  SPEAKER_04: We had a uh Judge Wright started the STAR program in the Central District of California, and that's a post-conviction um uh rehabilitation.
• 43:27
  SPEAKER_04: Uh and it really is difficult for the participants.
• 43:31
  SPEAKER_04: Uh it's about you know people that would have strong drug drug addictions.
• 43:35
  SPEAKER_04: So every once in a while I would I would uh help him out and substitute in when he couldn't make it.
• 43:41
  SPEAKER_04: And so I was there's usually about 10 participants, and there's a lot of preparation, so you you know this individual stories, but it just so happened this one particular time, one of the participants, their son, was there, and he was about 12 years old, and I started to talk to the son about my My dad, which was his dad, who was right there.
• 44:03
  SPEAKER_04: And the participant was so excited about it, he was looking at his son, you could become a judge.
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_04: Look at him.
• 44:11
  SPEAKER_04: Despite me, you can become a judge.
• 44:13
  SPEAKER_04: And it was just that whole dynamic of, you know, just by telling your story, uh, the positive hope that you could give somebody.
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_04: And here was dad, who's post-conviction, felony conviction federal court, now in the STAR program, and his son visiting and watching and able to make that connection that son of a convicted felon, drug addicted person, that son could succeed.
• 44:41
  SPEAKER_03: Super cool.
• 44:42
  SPEAKER_03: I do want to explain.
• 44:43
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I was on my phone while you guys were talking, and the reason I was is um when you said you did uh legal malpractice defense, um, right upstairs we have a firm uh with a woman by the name of Heather Rosing, um, and that's what they do.
• 44:59
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and so I texted her and I said, Hey, you know, we have a judge down here, and I just learned he did uh legal malpractice, so I invite them to come down like if they're around at 215.
• 45:10
  SPEAKER_03: Um but the first question I got like once you turn out to be a judge, um, does your mom want to be your clerk?
• 45:18
  SPEAKER_04: Oh my gosh.
• 45:19
  SPEAKER_04: Um she wants to be my well, unfortunately, she she saw me become a state court judge, she didn't see me become a federal judge.
• 45:27
  SPEAKER_04: Um, but I remember um when I got the call from the governor's office that um that I was gonna become a judge, I kind of uh I've melded out at age, but I was kind of an intense person at times.
• 45:41
  SPEAKER_04: And so um I get the call from the governor's office, and the I call my my mother, and we're both uh I'm crying, she's not crying.
• 45:51
  SPEAKER_04: And uh talking about my grandfather and how proud he would be, and and uh my mother switches right into advice mode.
• 45:59
  SPEAKER_04: She says, You better be nice because if you're not, no one's gonna like you.
• 46:05
  SPEAKER_04: Thanks.
• 46:06
  SPEAKER_04: Thanks, Mom.
• 46:06
  SPEAKER_04: That's good to know.
• 46:08
  SPEAKER_04: But it was a courtroom clerk, you know, keeping keeping the judge in line.
• 46:13
  SPEAKER_04: Uh so yeah, so that was the first advice she gave me.
• 46:16
  SPEAKER_04: And and uh unfortunately she wasn't around when I was sworn in as a federal judge.
• 46:20
  SPEAKER_04: I'm sorry to hear that.
• 46:21
  SPEAKER_04: But um, the person that swore me in was the first judge she worked for, was Judge Takasuki.
• 46:26
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, cool.
• 46:27
  SPEAKER_04: And so they um it seemed like when you go through the formal ceremony, various people talk about you.
• 46:35
  SPEAKER_04: And inevitably, uh, I just thought it was a design plan to make me sob on the bench because Judge Takasuki starts talking about my mom, my high school teacher starts talking to mom, my mom, and I'm just like about ready to lose it the the entire time.
• 46:53
  SPEAKER_03: But it was again full circle.
• 46:55
  SPEAKER_03: You know, uh, Judge Yutaga, your mom gave you the advice, like be a nice judge.
• 47:01
  SPEAKER_03: And you know, we try cases in front of different courts in different places, and um, you know, I can always see a difference uh when the the jury in particular really likes the judge, they really like the experience.
• 47:15
  SPEAKER_03: Um talk to us about, you know, and I feel like it's always a better place to try a case where the judge has created that atmosphere, you know.
• 47:24
  SPEAKER_03: Um talk to us about that if you would.
• 47:26
  SPEAKER_04: It usually it starts as soon as the jurors walk into the courtroom, it starts the that whole process and they see your your demeanor, you know, whether uh you're happy to be there or not happy to be there, usually I'm trying to make it a welcoming place for jurors many times as the first time they've been in a courtroom.
• 47:44
  SPEAKER_04: And then during the jury selection uh process, um federal court, unlike state court, um the lawyers don't necessarily have the right to ask questions in federal court.
• 47:57
  SPEAKER_04: Some judges do.
• 47:58
  SPEAKER_04: Um so basically the first contact they have is with the federal judge.
• 48:03
  SPEAKER_04: And to me, the the the only way that process is going to be helpful to the lawyers is to enter into the discuss uh a discussion with the jurors about the various aspects of their lives that would make them fairer, unbiased, or honestly partial in the particular case.
• 48:21
  SPEAKER_04: And it and it it's very simple, it's just a matter of being able to just have a conversation, talk to the jurors, and to you know, be legitimately interested.
• 48:31
  SPEAKER_04: So sometimes you know, people will say, you know, I do X, I have no idea what X is.
• 48:37
  SPEAKER_04: So it's just a matter of, can you tell me about your day?
• 48:39
  SPEAKER_04: What does your day look like?
• 48:41
  SPEAKER_04: And I think that legitimate interest in their lives, all of a sudden you're forming a bond with the individual uh juror and uh uh making it a hospitable place, then they begin to trust you uh in how you're conducting the trial that you're being fair and giving everybody their their their due.
• 49:05
  SPEAKER_03: By the I always wonder this, like um so once you're a judge for however many years, say toward the end, and you got a trial, you know, it could be a civil case or criminal case, say it's a civil case, with what degree of um accuracy, because you've seen this for so long, are you able to predict the outcome?
• 49:27
  SPEAKER_04: Uh more times than not, then sometimes it's just a curveball.
• 49:34
  SPEAKER_04: It's just a curveball.
• 49:35
  SPEAKER_04: And it starts the process because many times, you know, when you you have a pretrial conference with a lawyer and you're still trying to get them to try to resolve the case among themselves.
• 49:46
  SPEAKER_04: So sometimes that conversation could be what do you think the value of the case is?
• 49:52
  SPEAKER_04: What are you gonna ask the jurist for?
• 49:53
  SPEAKER_04: Well, you think you know, X million dollars.
• 49:56
  SPEAKER_04: And I remember this, we were talking talking about this the other day, and I told this lawyer, you're out of your not in a more polite way, you're out of your mind, basically.
• 50:08
  SPEAKER_04: You're not gonna get that from the jury.
• 50:09
  SPEAKER_04: Well, that's the he did that better in front of the jury.
• 50:14
  SPEAKER_04: And again, we were uh it's it's he just you know told a very compelling story uh that I didn't quite see when we were just talking about the case.
• 50:25
  SPEAKER_04: I hadn't I hadn't met his client yet, I hadn't seen, I didn't see her test, I hadn't seen her testify yet, and once the story unfolded, I was dead wrong.
• 50:35
  SPEAKER_03: And so, you know, advice to trial lawyers what has been you know one or two of the most important things that you've seen in trial lawyers that have affected outcomes in a good way?
• 50:49
  SPEAKER_04: Well, one, be yourself, you know, don't be anybody else.
• 50:54
  SPEAKER_04: Um be nice, um tell a story.
• 50:59
  SPEAKER_04: And um I think especially today, with all the way from video games to everything else, and uh people's attention spans are short.
• 51:08
  SPEAKER_04: So the story has to be told in a compelling and concise and moving uh way.
• 51:15
  SPEAKER_04: Um and I think those are the those are the three things um uh that the that I think would make that does make a successful um trial lawyer.
• 51:27
  SPEAKER_04: Um and there's some that are very good at it.
• 51:30
  SPEAKER_04: We were talking earlier about one of my classmates, and I'll give him a plug, Dale Galipo, trying his 1983 cases.
• 51:38
  SPEAKER_04: And two two quick stories about Galipo is we're had a jury selection, and one of the jurors said something really strange.
• 51:47
  SPEAKER_04: He said, I have trouble hearing uh people with accents.
• 51:52
  SPEAKER_04: What is that?
• 51:53
  SPEAKER_04: What does that mean?
• 51:54
  SPEAKER_04: I'm expecting the lawyers to ask them to be excused, and they don't.
• 52:02
  SPEAKER_04: Galipo gets up in his opening statement, he says, I will try not to speak with an accent.
• 52:09
  SPEAKER_04: All jurors started laughing.
• 52:11
  SPEAKER_03: Case was over.
• 52:13
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 52:14
  SPEAKER_03: They thought this one of us, normal guy.
• 52:17
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 52:18
  SPEAKER_04: And uh during that same trial, he he is so cool.
• 52:23
  SPEAKER_04: I found this out afterwards, uh, you know, words was spreading that because he he's got such a great reputation, all the externs in the building were basically gonna watch his closing argument.
• 52:33
  SPEAKER_04: And he's as I hear the story be told, I was in chambers.
• 52:37
  SPEAKER_04: Um instead of being worried about his opening standing, he turns around to the audience and starts asking questions of where do you go to law school, and he starts telling them what he's gonna do in closing argument and how he's gonna do it.
• 52:49
  SPEAKER_04: And then before the judge is ready to take the bench, he just sits down and I come on and he does it.
• 52:55
  SPEAKER_04: Wow.
• 52:56
  SPEAKER_04: So it's just a you know, it's he's himself.
• 53:00
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 53:01
  SPEAKER_03: I love it.
• 53:02
  SPEAKER_03: So, Judge, um, you know, uh, there's an elephant in the room that that we have to kind of draw a little, you know, fence around for today, and um that is we are recording, you know, within a week of like these uh very large public protests in Los Angeles around immigration enforcement actions and the some community members' response to that.
• 53:31
  SPEAKER_03: And so um, you know, normally I would ask you about some of that stuff, but you as a retired federal judge are subject to perhaps being asked to be a special master.
• 53:43
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I know sometimes um I've seen programs where the courts will ask retired judges to come back and preside over certain matters, and so you gotta steer clear of that stuff.
• 53:54
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, let's look at some perspective.
• 53:56
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, it is it it was it's you know uh First Amendment so important, and it's important that people voice their dissent with the government, that they protest, that they, you know, uh speak their mind about what they think is wrong or what they think is right.
• 54:12
  SPEAKER_04: And so, but the uh the problem uh being, you know, uh unfortunately some people really I don't I think um care about what's being said and end up you know uh through vandalism or through other things, um I think uh um saw uh delete the message.
• 54:35
  SPEAKER_04: Um so what was hard this week to watch or to see is you know because I worked as a federal judge, I was chief judge in uh 2020, the last time there was civil unrest, and courthouses are special places and federal courthouses are super special places.
• 54:52
  SPEAKER_04: Anyone who's practiced, how special it is when you walk into a federal courthouse, uh it's solemn.
• 54:58
  SPEAKER_04: And to see um, you know, uh graffiti on there's uh two courthouses in Los Angeles, one is at Roy Ball, which is right next door to the detention center.
• 55:08
  SPEAKER_04: And to see the the damage done to the courthouse uh is is difficult.
• 55:13
  SPEAKER_04: Um same thing, I I haven't seen it yet, but there was also damage done to the old courthouse, which is now at least by the LA Superior Court, but still a federal building.
• 55:23
  SPEAKER_04: And then there was damage done to the uh first grade courthouse, which is the brand new courthouse.
• 55:28
  SPEAKER_04: And um so it's just difficult.
• 55:30
  SPEAKER_04: And it it it when I was chief, one of the things you you have to decide is is how to protect the building, how to how to protect your employees, how to protect the people that are coming to court.
• 55:42
  SPEAKER_04: So just things like that that were distasteful to me was you know like building a fence around the courthouse.
• 55:48
  SPEAKER_04: Um it's supposed the courthouse is supposed to be a safe place.
• 55:53
  SPEAKER_04: It's supposed to be um accessible to everybody.
• 55:56
  SPEAKER_04: Um everybody should be able to walk in and feel no harm is gonna come uh to them.
• 56:03
  SPEAKER_04: And they get to voice their their grievances, either a grievance against the the government, whether it be a civil rights case, 1983 case, uh whether it be a criminal defendant uh fighting for his liberty.
• 56:18
  SPEAKER_04: Um and again, it's it's gotta be a welcoming place for the defendant, it's gotta be a welcoming place for the prosecutor, it's gotta be a good place for the family members who are coming to watch the trial, it's gotta be a friendly place for the victims, safe place.
• 56:33
  SPEAKER_04: So that's the hard that that's from my perspective, it's a different perspective when you're watching um uh civil unrest, that gets then when it gets out of hand and and and you see uh special places uh uh being vandalized.
• 56:49
  SPEAKER_04: So that's from my my perspective, that that's the hardest thing to to watch.
• 56:54
  SPEAKER_04: And uh uh but there was some relief in not being chief this weekend, so uh just watch and didn't have to worry about.
• 57:01
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, I'm sure what was going on on Monday was how do you keep the building open?
• 57:05
  SPEAKER_04: Because people have business.
• 57:07
  SPEAKER_04: Uh people have cases, they have they have gr they have uh things that are very important to them uh to to be heard.
• 57:15
  SPEAKER_03: So I mean those courts, judge, or you know, ultimately where anybody with those types of grievances, if they're real grievances, are gonna be able to get justice.
• 57:26
  SPEAKER_03: And it's sad that you know um probably through just kind of indiscriminate, you know, targeting against the government or just institutions or buildings or property, you know, that that people would feel compelled to uh demark or vandalize, you know, those places.
• 57:44
  SPEAKER_04: There are important places where important things you've got to decide, agree or disagree.
• 57:48
  SPEAKER_04: Uh, you know, um the attorney general from California is is talking about bringing a lawsuit, uh bringing a grievance against the administration that the the call um of the National Guard was improper.
• 58:01
  SPEAKER_04: Well, where that where is that grievance gonna get hard?
• 58:04
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 58:05
  SPEAKER_04: Um yeah, uh one of the labor leaders, uh Huerta was uh was arrested.
• 58:11
  SPEAKER_04: Well, he needs a he needs an arraignment, he needs to figure out whether he's gonna get bail or not.
• 58:16
  SPEAKER_04: Well, Royball has to be open for him to get his hearing uh to receive bail.
• 58:23
  SPEAKER_04: So as as the turmoil goes around you, things have to still happen.
• 58:28
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, we do civil rights cases here, Judge, and you know the advice, you know, or counsel that we would give is um you know, obey the law, you know, act peacefully, um, sure, exercise your constitutional rights, but you know, within all that, it's not going to help your any or your cause any or you know uh whatever you're fighting for to just be an irresponsible, reckless, you know, indiscriminate person and and not follow the law.
• 58:56
  SPEAKER_03: And and so, you know, not only for whatever cause is it's something they're fighting for, but also ultimately you you come to us, you know, and and you have some has with the police, but just prior to that, you're busting a cop's window.
• 59:11
  SPEAKER_03: That's probably not gonna be a very good case, right?
• 59:14
  SPEAKER_03: So, you know, if you are if you are marching peacefully with a Mexican flag and you get taken out, then you know, obviously that's a whole different story.
• 59:22
  SPEAKER_04: And and that that case is gonna be filed in the courthouse that was just finalized.
• 59:28
  SPEAKER_04: Right?
• 59:29
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, and you yeah, you wanna yes.
• 59:32
  SPEAKER_03: Well, so uh turning you know uh the page.
• 59:36
  SPEAKER_03: Um so what are you doing today, Judge?
• 59:39
  SPEAKER_03: What's keeping you busy?
• 59:41
  SPEAKER_04: Uh I I'm doing the private mediation uh neutral work.
• 59:45
  SPEAKER_04: I've um so trying to resolve disputes uh outside of the court system.
• 59:50
  SPEAKER_04: The cases either have been filed or will be filed or have been filed.
• 59:54
  SPEAKER_04: Um I'm doing uh I've been assigned I I've been hired in several arbitrations, probably about 50 arbitrations that will be heard next year.
• 1:00:02
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, 50?
• 1:00:03
  SPEAKER_04: Five zero?
• 1:00:04
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, we'll see how many go, right?
• 1:00:05
  SPEAKER_04: Oh gosh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:00:07
  SPEAKER_04: Uh so and then I've done some special masterwork for the Northern Northern District of California.
• 1:00:13
  SPEAKER_04: And um it's I've been busy, a little bit more busy than I wanted to be in retirement, but it's a good thing.
• 1:00:20
  SPEAKER_04: Uh are you still reading?
• 1:00:22
  SPEAKER_04: I I do.
• 1:00:22
  SPEAKER_04: I just finished uh I I uh uh uh not a serious book.
• 1:00:27
  SPEAKER_04: Well it's a serious topic at in some points, but uh one of my favorite people when I was growing up was uh Johnny Carson.
• 1:00:34
  SPEAKER_04: Sorry, we just read an autobiography, but uh uh Johnny Carson, so I'm kinda kind of picking my my next there's a whole bunch of stack of books in my office that I that uh every time we go to the bookstore I'll buy we'll buy something and then it gets on the pile and then you figure out which one to pull out.
• 1:00:52
  SPEAKER_03: Now, now Blanca, would you say that he is working more or less than you anticipated after he stepped off the bench?
• 1:00:59
  SPEAKER_05: More.
• 1:01:00
  SPEAKER_03: Definitely more, right?
• 1:01:01
  SPEAKER_03: Definitely more and is that okay with you or were you ready just for full-time husband?
• 1:01:07
  SPEAKER_03: Okay with it.
• 1:01:07
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you're good?
• 1:01:09
  SPEAKER_05: He still makes time for us then, so I'm okay with it.
• 1:01:12
  SPEAKER_04: Uh she's she likes to try Blanca likes to travel.
• 1:01:15
  SPEAKER_04: Oh so as long as there's there's something to look forward to in terms of travel, everything.
• 1:01:20
  SPEAKER_03: What's the favorite place you ever went?
• 1:01:23
  SPEAKER_03: Uh Blanca.
• 1:01:25
  SPEAKER_00: Me?
• 1:01:25
  SPEAKER_00: I went to?
• 1:01:26
  SPEAKER_00: Uh probably.
• 1:01:26
  SPEAKER_00: No, but you have to have gone with him.
• 1:01:28
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, Paris.
• 1:01:29
  SPEAKER_03: Paris.
• 1:01:30
  SPEAKER_03: Oh.
• 1:01:31
  SPEAKER_00: Love Paris, yes.
• 1:01:32
  SPEAKER_01: We both love Paris.
• 1:01:34
  SPEAKER_03: They just got a big win um PSG.
• 1:01:36
  SPEAKER_01: Well, his initials.
• 1:01:38
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, really?
• 1:01:39
  SPEAKER_01: Oh yeah!
• 1:01:40
  SPEAKER_04: So that's funny you mentioned that because I just got a PSG jersey.
• 1:01:44
  SPEAKER_04: Because everything because my initial when in federal court there's a case number, but then there's the judge's initials.
• 1:01:51
  SPEAKER_04: So my initials were PSG.
• 1:01:53
  SPEAKER_04: And so any time I would tell somebody PSG, they would say, Well, you know, Paris Saint-Germain.
• 1:01:59
  SPEAKER_04: And I was like, what are you talking about?
• 1:02:01
  SPEAKER_04: So anyway, when I was uh flipping channels, I noticed that they well, I was actually I was watching the French Open at Paris Rolling Garos, and uh when uh Djokovic from Serbia was playing Sinner from Italy, Djokovic got very upset because the French crowd on their phones were watching the soccer match.
• 1:02:21
  SPEAKER_04: So they were going crazy during the tennis match.
• 1:02:24
  SPEAKER_04: Like if they score a goal on the so the camera had all these people watching uh uh PSG win the uh the championship.
• 1:02:35
  SPEAKER_04: So what I decided to do, I thought it'd be pretty funny.
• 1:02:38
  SPEAKER_04: I got a I I just got it in the mail yesterday.
• 1:02:41
  SPEAKER_04: I got my PSG.
• 1:02:43
  SPEAKER_04: My PSG uh jersey.
• 1:02:44
  SPEAKER_04: I love it, I love it.
• 1:02:46
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I watched, it's funny you said Mexico City.
• 1:02:48
  SPEAKER_03: I watched that match in Mexico City with my son, who's uh he's a big PSG fan, and they just crushed him.
• 1:02:56
  SPEAKER_03: It was a crushing blow.
• 1:02:58
  SPEAKER_03: I know.
• 1:02:58
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:02:59
  SPEAKER_03: Like uh crazy.
• 1:03:00
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so uh last question, last question, and then I'll close up.
• 1:03:05
  SPEAKER_05: Last question, okay.
• 1:03:07
  SPEAKER_01: Mine's pretty easy.
• 1:03:08
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 1:03:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um, what advice would you give to law students that are looking down the road and maybe in pursuit of being on the bench?
• 1:03:17
  SPEAKER_04: Pursuit on the bench is a little different, but um it's uh I'm gonna repeat myself in law is is can be a very hard profession.
• 1:03:32
  SPEAKER_04: And because it's hard, you have you can't let it beat you.
• 1:03:36
  SPEAKER_04: You have to you have to find, and if you don't, you don't necessarily find it right off the bat.
• 1:03:42
  SPEAKER_04: You have to find something you enjoy doing, something you believe in, whether it's civil rights cases, whatever it is, um defending big corporate being a U.S.
• 1:03:54
  SPEAKER_04: attorney, becoming a public defender, whatever your passion is, again, you because that's what's gonna, it's as I said, it's difficult, it's time consuming, but again, if you love it, if you believe in the work that you're doing, it's easier.
• 1:04:08
  SPEAKER_04: Um becoming a judge, I think one, be competent in what you do, but I think second, I think um people want to know that when they appoint a judge, they call it roboticis.
• 1:04:22
  SPEAKER_04: The robe won't get to your personality, to your head.
• 1:04:25
  SPEAKER_04: So, what's the track record for you not having robotis, letting the letting the title get to your head?
• 1:04:31
  SPEAKER_04: How have you treated people in your profession as you were practicing law?
• 1:04:38
  SPEAKER_04: How did you treat your opposition?
• 1:04:40
  SPEAKER_04: How did you treat the opposition, the client?
• 1:04:43
  SPEAKER_04: How did you treat, you know, the the governor's office or the president's office, uh, the White House counsel's office are going to ask everybody who's ever had contact with you, uh, how how what was your demeanor?
• 1:04:57
  SPEAKER_04: Will you have a good demeanor for the bench?
• 1:04:59
  SPEAKER_04: I think they care about more than that about incompetence.
• 1:05:02
  SPEAKER_04: But so the bottom line, I think, is is your reputation starts in law school, if not before that, especially with social media.
• 1:05:11
  SPEAKER_04: Uh, we didn't have that, so what you put on your social media will follow you the rest of your life.
• 1:05:17
  SPEAKER_04: And so it's it's a matter of teaching, treating other people with uh dignity and respect, treating all people the same equally.
• 1:05:25
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you, Josh.
• 1:05:27
  SPEAKER_02: So you've clearly had an impactful career on the bench and then also as a litigator.
• 1:05:31
  SPEAKER_02: What are you most proud of and what legacy do you hope to leave behind?
• 1:05:36
  SPEAKER_04: I think that both sides uh feel they got a fair shake.
• 1:05:43
  SPEAKER_04: Um that I, you know, I wasn't pro prosecution or I wasn't pro uh uh defense, that I treated, you know, uh both sides uh fairly, that you walked in the courtroom, that I was prepared.
• 1:06:00
  SPEAKER_04: Listened uh and uh uh felt both sides felt they had a chance.
• 1:06:07
  SPEAKER_03: So Judge, uh last question, and I steal this from Osutava and his uh podcast Cracks, highly recommend it.
• 1:06:16
  SPEAKER_03: Um if you could uh write a message in the sky uh for all the world to see forever, what would you tell them?
• 1:06:27
  SPEAKER_04: It's become more common now, but it was I would be dream big.
• 1:06:31
  SPEAKER_04: Because the what I talked about in the beginning, if when I was you know 12 years old, if you told me I was gonna become a pretty decent tennis player, I I couldn't have even dreamt it.
• 1:06:41
  SPEAKER_04: When I was 13 years old, if you told me four years later I was gonna be in Ireland, I never could have dreamt it.
• 1:06:47
  SPEAKER_04: If you would have told me, you know, as a I was gonna be a judge when I was 37, I couldn't have dreamt it.
• 1:06:54
  SPEAKER_04: So it's important to dream big because your your your your dreams that uh will happen will be bigger than anything that you can imagine.
• 1:07:05
  SPEAKER_04: So you I think the parameter has to be that you have to set set your sights, uh clouds to the stars.
• 1:07:13
  SPEAKER_03: I like it.
• 1:07:13
  SPEAKER_03: Beautifully said.
• 1:07:15
  SPEAKER_03: And so uh thank you again, Judge, for joining us.
• 1:07:17
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you, Blanca, for being part of this.
• 1:07:20
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you to my co-host.
• 1:07:22
  SPEAKER_03: Um, this episode, as always, is brought to you by uh our sponsor, Gomez Trial Attorneys, um, a national uh trial law firm based in California that provides uh personal injury, uh employment rights, uh civil rights, mass torts, and class action representation.
• 1:07:43
  SPEAKER_03: Um if you like this, share it.
• 1:07:46
  SPEAKER_03: Um I'm hopeful that uh Mr.
• 1:07:48
  SPEAKER_03: McGuire, Mr.
• 1:07:49
  SPEAKER_03: Moran will tune in and check this out.
• 1:07:51
  SPEAKER_03: I'm hopeful that some of the judges uh colleagues, perhaps, or people that have appeared in front of him, maybe even um Dale will listen and hear about what a great uh trial lawyer he is.
• 1:08:03
  SPEAKER_03: Uh classmate of uh Judge Dolly G and uh Dale Um Galipo.
• 1:08:09
  SPEAKER_03: Um pretty pretty cool uh class that you were part of.
• 1:08:13
  SPEAKER_03: Um and so uh thank you again, Judge.
• 1:08:15
  SPEAKER_03: This wraps things up.
• 1:08:16
  SPEAKER_03: We're gonna take the judge out.
• 1:08:17
  SPEAKER_03: I think some of our uh firm members are here to hear from you.
• 1:08:21
  SPEAKER_03: If the message got upstairs on time, they'll be out there too.
• 1:08:24
  SPEAKER_03: So thank you again.
• 1:08:24
  SPEAKER_03: You're welcome.
• 1:08:25
  SPEAKER_03: My pleasure.
• 1:08:26
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
• 1:08:26
  SPEAKER_00: It's a pleasure to meet you.
• 1:08:29
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for listening to the Latino podcast.
• 1:08:32
  SPEAKER_00: We'll see you again next time, and be sure to click subscribe to get future episodes.