Latest / Crosswalk Talk: Celebrity Christian Interviews / Zachary Levi on David: King of Israel, Faith, and the Power of Storytelling

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Zachary Levi on David: King of Israel, Faith, and the Power of Storytelling · Crosswalk Talk: Celebrity Christian Interviews

• 0:02
  Speaker 1: Life Audio. Hey Zachary, thanks for joining me.
• 0:06
  Speaker 2: Hey Michael. Happy to be here.
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: Zachary Levi, host of the new Fox Nation four part
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: docu drama David King of Israel. Foxation dot Com is
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: the website. I really enjoyed this, Zachary, It's so good.
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: You know, David is one of the most fascinating figures
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: in the Bible. He's a shepherd, he's a king, he
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: experienced massive success and of course failure. What aspects of
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: his character and his story resonated most with you? Man?
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: I think, you know, ever since I was a kid
• 0:33
  Speaker 2: and reading my Bible, and you know, there's so many cool,
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: fascinating stories and characters, right, But David, I think there's
• 0:40
  Speaker 2: a reason why he resonates with all of us so deeply,
• 0:43
  Speaker 2: and it's that's rooted in the fact that he's a
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: man after God's own heart, which is what we all
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: aspire to be, to be men and women after God's
• 0:50
  Speaker 2: own heart, right, Like that's the sweet spot, that's the pocket,
• 0:53
  Speaker 2: that's where we want to be. And David was that.
• 0:56
  Speaker 2: He was that inherently, he was that in his nature.
• 0:58
  Speaker 2: He was that when he was the youngest of all
• 1:01
  Speaker 2: of the brothers and the smallest and the you know,
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: least assuming to be chosen as king and you know,
• 1:07
  Speaker 2: tending to the sheep and doing his doing his business,
• 1:10
  Speaker 2: and you know, for him to then rise through these
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: ranks of the social strata and be called by God
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: to be king. But can't even talk about that because
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: for fear of being murdered by King Saul and having
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: this family killed and they you know, all of it.
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: There's so much drama and intrigue and everything in this story.
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: And like you were saying, it's the highest size and
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: the lowest lows to be a man for God's own
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: heart to be chosen as the new king to be
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: then you know, running for your life trying not to
• 1:42
  Speaker 2: be killed, and then once once ascending to kingship, you know,
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: then also falling into the trap of the flesh and
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: of the ego and making really horrible decisions in fact,
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: things that today we would we look at people who
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: do things like murder and adultery, and we all collect
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: actively tend to have these very you know, we look
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: down our nose and we think like, oh, what a horrible,
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: you know, person, what a monster that person is. And
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: while I agree that that act that they have committed
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: is not a good act, and even a monstrous act.
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: God still saw through all of that, and God still
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: sees through all of that today. And I think it's
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: it's imperative that we remember that, like, particularly as people
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: of faith, we are all saved by grace. We are
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: all saved through the mercy and forgiveness of God. And
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: so you know, that was evident even in the Old Testament.
• 2:34
  Speaker 2: That was evident even in the story of David. God's mercy,
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: God's grace that was that was activated in a large
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: part because of David's repentance and David falling to his
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: knees and being like, oh my gosh, who have I come?
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: What have I done? How do I get back to
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: you God? And he was given that opportunity to do that,
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: and I think we need to not forget that. So
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: it resonates on someone the Elvis also, you know, I
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: think that the psalms are fascinating. It's just it's like
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: it's it's his diary. I mean, at the end of
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: the day, it's kind of like this this diary of
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: this man that we've been given. Now, you know, for
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: many many, many, many many years down the road for
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: us to look at and go, oh wow, it looks
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: like a lot of the same things that people were
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: dealing with back then we're still dealing with right now
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: and are to cry out to God and say, where
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: are you. I'm in the middle of the suck right now.
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: I'm in the middle of this darkness right now, and
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: I don't think there's any way out of this, but
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: I'm going to keep putting my faith in you, you know.
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: And then of course there's you know, there's lots of
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: different palms. They're not all him crying out for help,
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: but many are. And so I don't know, I just
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: think all of it is just it's it's it's it
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: was pertinent then it's pertinent now I think it's relevant
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  Speaker 2: to all of us. And you know, obviously, with the
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: New Testament, the story of Christ is the story that's
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: the defining story. But also, you know, the story of
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: Jesus is interesting in that it's not as relatable, I think,
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: you know, because that is that Jesus didn't murder anybody,
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: he didn't commit adultery, he didn't do anything wrong. I mean,
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: you know, obviously the Pharisees wanted to try and catch
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: him on doing things wrong, and he constantly had a
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: rebuttal for that. But you know, I think the most
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: you know, intense that you get in the in the
• 4:14
  Speaker 2: story of Christ from from his let's say emotions or whatever,
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: is which was you know, pretty significant, you know, literally
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: whipping tax collectors and money changers in the temple. And
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: I guess we can all relate to that on some level.
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: Nobody likes paying taxes. But I think that you know,
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: he David is still just human, he is just flesh
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  Speaker 2: like we are, and so there's something that's deeply relatable
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  Speaker 2: to that. And and also, as I've said before, you know,
• 4:40
  Speaker 2: of all the stories in the Bible, this one is
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: really it's it's like, you know, Lord of the Ring.
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: It's like a biblical Lord of the Rings. You got
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: witches and giants and magic and mapped to battles and yeah,
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: you know it's toll keen. It's like it's it's it's
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: really incredible. So all of those reasons attracted me to
• 4:59
  Speaker 2: the project.
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: Get how violent the Old Testament is and to you
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: see it depicted on screen sometimes, you know, it's really amazing.
• 5:06
  Speaker 2: You know.
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  Speaker 1: One thing I really like Zachary is. I love David's
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  Speaker 1: courage and his boldness for righteousness. He goes out there
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  Speaker 1: on the battlefield and his brothers aren't willing to fight Goliath,
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  Speaker 1: and he stands up and he says, I'll fight for
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: the God of Israel. It's so encouraging to see that,
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  Speaker 1: because on the flip side, like you said, he fails.
• 5:23
  Speaker 2: So many times. It's just so inspiring to watch that.
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: I was curious if there were any stories about David
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: that stood out to you, perhaps that resonated with you
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: in a new way that you might have known about
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: in the past but just kind of thought about in
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: a new way, or maybe ones you'd forgotten about.
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I would say, I mean, like I was referencing before,
• 5:41
  Speaker 2: I think that the songs I hadn't Like Someone thirty
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: nine is a scripture I go to quite often, particularly
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: what I'm like, really needing a jolt of refresher of
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: God's infinite love and infinite presence, right like Someone with
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: one thirty nine is. And it's so beautifully written. It's
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: so poetic in almost, you know, every version I've ever
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: read it in, because obviously there's multiple translations and scriptures.
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: But the Psalms you know, when we shot this docu series,
• 6:11
  Speaker 2: it reminded me, you know, as I'm standing in these
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: like cool virtual sets like in a cave and you know,
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: with the torchlight and we're talking, I'm talking about the Psalms,
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: and I'm like, oh, yeah, the Psalms. Like wow, I
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: had never really thought about it, like this is his diary,
• 6:28
  Speaker 2: Like this is his just sitting down and lamenting and
• 6:31
  Speaker 2: writing and getting this stuff out of him. So that
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: was a cool little refresher. You've spoken openly about your faith.
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: How did that journey begin for you and how has
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: it developed over the last few years.
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: Oh? Wow, Well, I mean, my parents are Christian. They
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  Speaker 2: met at church in the seventies. They had me and
• 6:48
  Speaker 2: my sisters. We grew up in a Christian home, though
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: a pretty a traditional atypical Christian home, like my mom
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: and dad got divorced when we were young. We grew
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: up with my mom. She was very deeply spiritual, but
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: not very liturgic, meaning like we never almost never went
• 7:04
  Speaker 2: to church. When we were going up with my mom.
• 7:07
  Speaker 2: We would get dragged to Catholic Mass by my grandma occasionally.
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  Speaker 2: That was interesting, but I you know, Jesus and the
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: Bible and Scripture was often spoken about in my home,
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: and my parents would have my mom and stepdad would
• 7:19
  Speaker 2: have you know, dinner parties and that would eventually wind
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: up and drinking wine and speak in tongues and you know,
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: like praying over each other. And so all of these
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: concepts were things that I absorbed when I was younger.
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  Speaker 2: And then when I was eighteen, I just ire. Seventeen eighteen,
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: I graduated high school, and I was like, you know,
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  Speaker 2: I want to I'm going to go to church just
• 7:38
  Speaker 2: to figure this out for myself, because I don't want
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: to just believe something because my parents believe it. I
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  Speaker 2: want to believe it because I believe it. And so
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  Speaker 2: I've been on a journey, you know, I'm forty five now,
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: you know, nearly thirty years of walking with God and
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: trying to understand God better and my relationship with God
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  Speaker 2: better and refine my myself or allow Him to refine
• 8:02
  Speaker 2: me more and more, and I think, you know, allowing
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: myself also to recognize that God is is I think,
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  Speaker 2: just so much bigger than we ever like to give
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  Speaker 2: him credit for. I think that the Bible is full
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  Speaker 2: of so much resource and so much wisdom and so
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  Speaker 2: much truth. And even still God is bigger than that.
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  Speaker 2: God is bigger than the churches that we walk into.
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  Speaker 2: God is bigger than God is everything. I mean, I
• 8:27
  Speaker 2: really I like the force in star wars, in and
• 8:30
  Speaker 2: through all things, you know, like the deeper I've gotten
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  Speaker 2: into that, like profundity, you know, the deeper my relationship
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  Speaker 2: with Him grows. And so that's where I'm at, man.
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  Speaker 2: I just I just really want to know that infinite
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  Speaker 2: love of God, so that I can be a conduit
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  Speaker 2: of that infinite love of God and hopefully share it
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  Speaker 2: with myself along the way. You know, this is it's
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: interesting and ironic that it's that's the hardest thing for
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  Speaker 2: us to do. Oftentimes we'll believe for God's love for
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: it plenty of other people, but it's do we believe
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  Speaker 2: that for us? Do we really believe that for us?
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  Speaker 1: You know?
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  Speaker 2: And and so just trying to get deeper into that.
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  Speaker 1: Even part of several projects in the past few years
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  Speaker 1: that have been faith adjacent, Sarah's Oil, American Derdog, the
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: Unbreakable Boil, I enjoyed all of those. Do those stories
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: connect in some way with your own faith journey? Because
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: I think a lot of people knew you for other project,
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: but then they realized, oh, he's got.
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: A faith side of him when you jumped into these
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: faith films. Yeah yeah, I mean, you know, for me,
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  Speaker 2: I just you know, I've got God has been the
• 9:47
  Speaker 2: the author and pilot of my career, my whole life.
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: I mean, I you know, he gave me the talents
• 9:53
  Speaker 2: that I had naturally, gave me opportunities to keep doing
• 9:57
  Speaker 2: theater as a kid and refining those talents, and put
• 10:01
  Speaker 2: people along the way to recognize those talents and help
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: me and you know, get me into more positions where
• 10:08
  Speaker 2: then ultimately, I you know, had a career in Hollywood
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  Speaker 2: and have been very blessed to do this for the
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: last twenty six years of my life. Which is crazy
• 10:15
  Speaker 2: to think that I've been so blessed to have done
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: it as long as I have done it at this point,
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: and I hope I get to do it a lot longer.
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  Speaker 2: But you know, I think that a lot of these projects,
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: you know, starting with like American Underdog and like you said,
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: going you know, Sarah's Oil, I mean, even Unbreakable Boy,
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: A lot of that just was almost waiting for filmmakers
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: who were in the faith space to come with projects
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: that were that were up to the standards that I
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: think we need to have within entertainment that you know, Unfortunately,
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: for a long time, I think there were a lot
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: of very well meaning faith filmmakers, but didn't they didn't
• 10:55
  Speaker 2: recognize that, you know, you can't just it can just
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: all be about the message. It can't all just be about,
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: you know, shoving Jesus down people's throat. You got to
• 11:05
  Speaker 2: you got to be able to come with a really
• 11:07
  Speaker 2: great story, something that resonates even if you're not somebody
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: who's a believer, that doesn't have any faith, but it's like, wow,
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: what a you know, American underdog to me was a
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: perfect example of that. It's it's a true story about
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: you know, Ker Warner and his wife Brenda, and their
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: incredible journey and their faith along the way. It's you know,
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: it's an integral part of the story. But you're allowing
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: an audience that's just like a football audience to go
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: and watch that and be touched by that and not
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: feel like they're being proselytized, not feel like they're you know,
• 11:34
  Speaker 2: being preached to. And I think that that's an issue
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: on all sides. You know, I think that there's conservative
• 11:39
  Speaker 2: filmmaking that can be too preachy on this side, and
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: clearly there's ideologically left leaning some might call woke types
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: of preaching on this side, and I think all of
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: that needs to stop. I think we need to recognize
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: that you can have really good messaging and it can
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: be laced into a really fantastic story and and and
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: shot and produced in a really fantastic way. If you
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: can do that, then you get to reach a lot
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: more people with a really great message. And so as
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: those projects started to materialize, and you know, working with
• 12:11
  Speaker 2: the Irwins on American Underdog and John Gunn and the
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: Irwin's on Unbreakable Boy, and Cyrus and Astra and John
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: Shepherd on Sarah's Oil, and you know, all of the
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: wonderful cast and crew and everybody that came together that
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: I was like, Okay, this is I feel good about
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: telling these stories. And I'm glad that these stories get
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: to be as you said, faith adjacent or faith infused.
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: I think that it's important to tell those kinds of stories.
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: Let's close by talking about something you launched last year,
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: wild Wood Studios in Texas for people who may be
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: hearing about it for the first time.
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: What is Wildwood? What's the vision behind it? Yeah, so
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: we announced it last year. We have yet to launch it.
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: We're still in the process of raising a good amount
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: of money to go build this massive, crazy vision of
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: mine that I believe God gave me twenty six years
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: ago when I first started working in Hollywood and I
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: got my first loop behind the curtain and I saw
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: how all the sausage was made. I was devastated because
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: God made me who I am with a lot of
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: empathy and a lot of logic, and I care far
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: too much about other human beings and excellence to then
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: find myself working in an industry that I don't think
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: cares about either of those things really, And I was
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: very distraught, and I didn't know what to do, and
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: I'm crying out to God and I'm like, what why
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: do you have me here? Because I believe that God
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: had always called me to be an actor since I
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: was a little kid, and that definitely all came to fruition,
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: and I believe God. What I heard back from God was, Zach,
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: You're not wrong. It's very broken, and I'm going to
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: use you to make a better version of this, so
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: that artists can be valued and the audience can be valued,
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: and we can make really excellent stuff and excellent movies
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: and TV shows and video games, music and all of
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: these things that really come back to giving me the
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: artists more agency and more value. And again, by creating excellence,
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: you're valuing your audience. If you're just continuing to serve
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: them slop all the time and you mark it really well, well,
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: guess what, you don't really care about your audience very much.
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: And so anyway, I'm nineteen years old and all this
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: stuff is coming into my head. I'm like, oh my gosh,
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: what is this all? What is this? God? What do
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: you want me to do? And he's like, you need
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: to You need to ride this broken boat of Hollywood
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: long enough to build your relationships and resources and reputation
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: and learn how broken this boat is and where all
• 14:19
  Speaker 2: the holes are, so that I'm going to download you
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: with all these blueprints. Act I'm I'm going to show
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: you how to build a better boat. And at the
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: right moment, you're gonna jump ship. You're going to be
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: going to build this boat, and you're going to bring
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: as many people with you two by two onto this
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: arc as Hollywood continues to crumble, and it does, and
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: it is and AI is going to be a massive
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: part of Hollywood imploding as it already is. And so
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: that's what Wildwood is. Wildwood is, it's an independent movie studio.
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: But also God wasn't. God was unsatisfied with that. God
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: was like, yeah, you can go build just a place
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: for people to work, but also look at all these
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: other ways that we need to help people live a
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: better life, Like our education system is broke, and our
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: help and wellness system is broken, our agricultural system is broken.
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: Why not go and build essentially a modern day factory
• 15:07
  Speaker 2: town kibbutz of sorts where you have people that they
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: don't just go there and work, they live there. They
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: could they have community there. You know, this is how
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: we used to live. We used to live in towns
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: and people everybody knew each other, and everybody collaborated and
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: everybody kind of relied on each other. The Amish have
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: never stopped doing this. We laugh at the Amish. We've
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: they've been the butt of so many jokes for so long,
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: and Gold dirted that they haven't gotten some stuff right,
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: like really right for a long time, and now look
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: at this massive trend of people saying, oh, if I
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: you know, we could you, we should just go get
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: some land, just all of us, and we can go live,
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: you know, out of the matrix and we can grow
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: our own food. It's like, yeah, people have a do
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: with that for a long time, and I'm glad that
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: a lot of people are waken up to that. But
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: so that's really what it is. It's an intentional community,
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: you know, kind of centering around the arts, people who
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: work in the arts and sciences of entertainment and others
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: as well. You know, I want to open it up
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: to anyone in every one that can bring value to
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: and and really help foster true community again. And I
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: think it's the thing that we're all we're all dying for.
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: Are you wanting to change what is made though? In
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: terms of the content? I mean, is that something you're
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: dissatisfied with?
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, but only to the extent that I
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: just talked to you about, Like, may it all be excellent,
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: May it all be excellence, May it not be I
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: want the agendas and the preachiness, I want all that
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: gone that's unnecessary in it, and it waters down the
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: excellence of the film, like that great writing doesn't require
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: that great writing leads people there. I mean, again, using
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: Tolkien as an example or C. S. Lewis, you don't
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: these are allegorical. They are there, their their fantasy. You're
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: living in this incredible, massive world of dwarves and elves
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: and kings and dark lords and all you know, magic
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: and all that stuff. But the message within all of
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: that is what makes it timeless. It's why people love
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: it to this day. White people who aren't necessarily even believers,
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: can look at the excellence of and absorb the wisdom
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: that are in those stories.
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: It.
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: Tolkien just came out swinging. It was like, this is
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: all about Jesus, and this our lead character is Jesus,
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: and it's you know, it's like, well that doesn't that's
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: not grabbing people in the same way, you know. So
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: I just want to make great stuff. I want to
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: make great stuff, and I want to create an environment
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: where people can be who they are, speak their mind.
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: You know.
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: I'm a more conservative leaning libertarian type of a guy,
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: and it's been very, very difficult for people like me
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: and Hollywood to be able to just speak what we
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: believe to be true, even when we're speaking it in love,
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: even when we're speaking it in kindness. You know, there's
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: blowback for that, there's pushback for that. I don't think
• 17:34
  Speaker 2: that's I don't think that's fair in any way, shape
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: or form. You know, I want to I want to
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: get us back to a world where people are allowed
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: to and not just allowed to, but encouraged to be
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: able to have debate and be able to speak to
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: talk through things. We need this, We need this more
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: than ever. A lot of people agree with you, sach
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: I know that much. I know I do.
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: Let's close by chatting quickly about David, King of Israel.
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: What do you want people to take away from this
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: to after they watch it? Are maybe one or two
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: themes that you want people to embrace?
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: Oh, well, just nothing. I keep coming back to this,
• 18:09
  Speaker 2: but that nothing can separate you from the love of God.
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: Nothing can separate you from the love of God. And
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: I believe that was true in David's time, even though
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: there were a lot of these Old Testament kind of
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: you know, rules and laws and whatever all that was.
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: But even through and despite all of that, God still
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: loved David. David was still a man after God's own heart.
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: And I think God is always just right there, just
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: waiting for us to turn back to him and say,
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: use me. How can I be used in this world
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: to make it a better place, to make it to
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: for your love to be shown on the people of
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: this earth. And I want that to be the message always,
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: regardless of the story. May we always remember and endeavor
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: to remember and to remind others that there is nothing
• 18:55
  Speaker 2: that can separate us from the love of our God. Amen.
• 18:59
  Speaker 2: Zachary thinks so much. Drank you so much, Michael, good
• 19:01
  Speaker 2: to talk to you.
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: If you like today's episode, please subscribe and leave a
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: five star review.
• 19:07
  Speaker 2: That's how we help more people just like you find
• 19:10
  Speaker 2: the show.
• 19:11
  Speaker 3: A big thanks to the team at Life Audio for
• 19:13
  Speaker 3: their partnership with us on the podcast. If you go
• 19:16
  Speaker 3: to lifeaudio dot com, you will find dozens of other
• 19:19
  Speaker 3: faith centered podcasts in their network.
• 19:22
  Speaker 2: See you next time.