Latest / Loud & Lifted / Working Moms in Leadership: Guilt, Balance and What the Research Says with Dr. Linda Fedrizzi-Williams

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Working Moms in Leadership: Guilt, Balance and What the Research Says with Dr. Linda Fedrizzi-Williams · Loud & Lifted

0:00
Welcome to Loud and Lifted. I'm your host Betsy
0:02
Hamm, and this is the podcast where we turn up
0:04
the volume on women who are rewriting the rules
0:06
of success. Today's guest is not only a respected
0:09
college president, she's also a champion for
0:12
women in leadership and a culture builder shaping
0:14
the next generation of trailblazers. Dr. Linda
0:18
Fadrizi Williams is leading Central Penn College
0:20
while navigating the very real, very raw challenges
0:23
of motherhood, ambition, and identity. In this
0:26
episode, she shares both personal experience
0:28
and powerful insights from her doctoral research
0:31
on women and leadership, and why the idea of
0:34
balance might be the biggest myth we need to
0:36
let go of. We dive into guilt, sacrifice, support
0:40
systems, and what it truly takes to thrive without
0:43
losing yourself in the process. If you ever felt
0:45
torn between your career and your family, this
0:47
one's for you. Spoiler alert, it is possible
0:50
to do both, but it's never perfect. And you were
0:53
never meant to do it alone. Welcome to Loud and
1:05
Lift. Linda, thank you so much for being here.
1:08
Oh, you're welcome. I'm so excited to be part
1:09
of it. Oh my gosh. So I was thinking back, the
1:12
first time we met was actually because of a podcast
1:14
and I was a guest on your podcast a few years
1:17
ago. That's right. That is how we met. Yep. And
1:20
that led to this beautiful relationship. I actually
1:24
forgot about that. That's Wangle. That's how
1:26
we were introduced to each other. That was how
1:28
we introduced. And I remember meeting you. I
1:29
didn't know you coming into the podcast. And
1:32
I walked in and was like, OK, this woman is amazing.
1:34
She has great energy, great presence. Obviously,
1:37
you were great at being a podcast host. Oh, and
1:39
by the way, you're a president of a college.
1:42
Kind of a big deal. You're so sweet. You're so
1:45
sweet. So I was really excited for you to be
1:48
able to join us on Loud and Lifted for a variety
1:50
of reasons. This conversation can come from a
1:52
couple different directions. First of all, being
1:54
the president of Central Penn College is a awesome
1:57
role. But doing my research, I found out only
2:01
33 % of college presidents are women. Yeah, and
2:05
that's up significantly. When I did my research,
2:08
it was 29%. So that's up from where it was. But
2:12
as you and I are going to talk about, women hold
2:15
themselves back. So a lot of the reason there's
2:17
not more women presidents is because women don't
2:20
raise their hand to be presidents. Interesting.
2:22
I'm so excited to get into this. Yeah, there
2:24
was a lot of different ways we could approach
2:27
our interview. But I heard about the research
2:30
that you did when you were going through your
2:31
dissertation and to get your doctorate to be
2:33
Dr. Linda. Literally when you shared it with
2:36
me was like is this from The first several episodes
2:39
of Loud and Lifted, I mean, your research hit
2:42
on every theme that has been very prevalent for
2:45
us through these early stages of Loud and Lifted.
2:48
A lot of similar themes, a lot of similar challenges
2:51
that women go through, especially women that
2:53
are trying to increase themselves through their
2:55
careers. We have the same host of challenges
2:58
in our different areas of life. So yeah. So first
3:02
of all, I need to ask, what made you want to
3:04
get your doctorate and be the president of a
3:06
university? You know, it's so interesting. When
3:08
I first was going for my doctorate, I wasn't
3:10
going to be a college president. I was a faculty
3:14
member. I started in radio, transitioned, started
3:16
teaching at the community college where I got
3:18
my start, and worked my way up. And it was honestly...
3:22
because my husband and I were living paycheck
3:25
to paycheck, and we're basically in poverty.
3:29
Didn't even realize it. We owned a home, but
3:30
we could barely afford anything. It was 2008.
3:33
We had our first son. The market crashed. My
3:36
husband was a union iron worker, so he was laid
3:39
off six months a year. And I was sitting in a
3:41
union meeting. at the community college where
3:44
I was a faculty member and they put up a chart
3:46
and they were showing earning potential and at
3:49
each degree level how you can increase your salary
3:52
and I've always been intrinsically motivated
3:55
wanted careers that I can make a difference didn't
3:58
think a lot about money but when you don't have
4:00
money You suddenly start thinking like, OK, it's
4:04
survival. And so I was sitting in that meeting
4:06
and saw if you earned another degree, how you
4:10
can earn a different amount of money and salary.
4:12
And I didn't want to be in poverty anymore. So
4:15
I said, I'm going to do this for our family.
4:17
I'm going to go and I'm going to get a doctorate
4:19
degree. And I really wanted to be a dean of liberal
4:22
arts. That's where I had wanted to kind of get
4:25
to. And then I was dean of liberal arts as I
4:28
was studying and going for my dissertation. And
4:30
then the more research I did, I realized women
4:33
sort of stop themselves at a certain level, and
4:36
I didn't want to stop anymore. Still didn't necessarily
4:39
think about being a college president, but always
4:41
wanted to better my life. And so I would raise
4:44
my hand at any opportunity that I had to take
4:46
on more, and I would always offer to do more,
4:50
and I think that's sort of what propelled me.
4:52
Oh my gosh, and here you are. Here I am. Killing
4:56
it. And a very challenging time to be in higher
4:59
education. So yeah, you're holding down the fort
5:01
and doing an amazing job. And I'm thankful that
5:03
I get to be part of your world and part of Central
5:06
Penn College. And do you want to give a quick
5:08
plug for Central Penn College? And then we're
5:10
going to dig into your findings. Absolutely.
5:12
And part of the reason. So when I was conducting
5:14
my research, I came to Central Pennsylvania.
5:16
And I had an opportunity to be on multiple college
5:19
campuses, had a chance to come to Central Penn.
5:21
was here early started talking to students realized
5:25
oh these are these are people who are coming
5:28
here to change their lives they were not unlike
5:30
me education was a way for them to get a ticket
5:34
out of poverty and a way to improve their lives
5:37
their family's lives there's a lot of working
5:39
adults that come here that have kids and so when
5:42
i met the students i felt instantly drawn to
5:44
this institution and the day i defended my dissertation
5:47
the position for vice president of academics
5:49
opened at central penn and i thought have to
5:51
be there. So yes, we change lives. We make sure
5:54
people are employed when they graduate. We have
5:56
a phenomenal graduation statistic. 89 % are working
6:00
in their field within a year, and 98 % are working
6:04
within a year of graduating. So we change a lot
6:07
of lives here. That's amazing stats. Well, congrats
6:09
to you. That's something to be super proud of.
6:12
And I just love the mission. That's why I got
6:14
involved with Central Penn. One, because of you.
6:16
But then two, when you hear about the students
6:18
and you meet the students and attending any events,
6:20
you're like this. This is amazing and has a little
6:22
bit of a different take than a typical institution,
6:24
which I love. Alright, so let's get into your
6:28
findings for when you did your dissertation.
6:30
Like I said, this sounded like a loud and lifted
6:32
episode. The first thing I thought we could dig
6:35
into was the myth of balance and the reality
6:38
of guilt. Yeah, and you hear so much about work
6:41
-life balance, right? And it's something that's
6:43
ingrained in you and people say they're searching
6:45
for it. And I learned very quickly on there is
6:49
no such thing. You're never going to be fully
6:51
in balance. And I think when you're constantly
6:53
searching for that, you're always going to feel
6:56
a little bit out of whack. And so the term that's
6:59
become more popular is work -life integration.
7:02
And it's how can you use the skills on either
7:05
side? When you're a mother, how can you use the
7:07
skills at work of being a mom? Or if you are
7:10
at home, how can you teach your kids lessons
7:13
that are preparing them? But what women struggle
7:16
with is something called inter -role conflict.
7:20
So inter -role conflict, and men have it too,
7:22
but it essentially is that we wear so many hats
7:25
that we are always feeling when we're in one
7:28
place that we should be doing something else.
7:31
So the guilt that we feel is almost always self
7:33
-imposed. So if you're home with your kids and
7:37
you know that you have a major project that's
7:40
due in a week, you're home, you're outside with
7:43
your kids, they're playing, you're thinking about
7:45
work and you're feeling guilty that you're not
7:48
spending time at work. Or if you left work at
7:50
four o 'clock because your child had a game,
7:53
now you're feeling guilty that it's 4 15 and
7:55
you're in the stands and you know that someone
7:57
is still at work. But when you're at work and
8:00
your kid has a field trip and you can't make
8:02
it, then you're feeling like you're not enough
8:05
of a mother. And then you start talking about
8:07
your significant others. If you have aging parents,
8:10
you're thinking you feel guilty you don't spend
8:12
enough time with them. You feel guilty because
8:14
you don't want to spend time with them, right?
8:16
So you just always have this heaviness. And then
8:21
when you hear about balance, and what women often
8:23
do is they take any of the personal time for
8:26
themselves out of the equation completely. Because
8:29
they're thinking, I either need to be giving
8:31
all of myself to my family. or all of myself
8:33
to my job and then there's nothing for them and
8:37
when they do take time for themselves then they
8:39
really feel guilty that they're somehow taking
8:42
advantage of people or they're doing something
8:44
for themselves and they shouldn't be and that
8:47
leads to burnout and stress and then when you're
8:49
burnt out and you're already at that point of
8:51
being so frazzled you're not good to anybody.
8:54
So I think thinking about ways where you can
8:58
integrate your home life into your work life
9:00
Actually alleviate some of that and I will tell
9:03
you for the first time in my career Being at
9:06
Central Penn. I have found a way to do that Now
9:09
I work on a college, right? We are lucky. A college
9:12
campus is one of the greatest places to work,
9:14
but my children come to events. My husband travels
9:17
to the sports teams games with us, right? Like
9:21
he's with me. So our students know my husband
9:24
and my son. My kids have grown up on this campus.
9:26
I had to give a panel presentation a few weeks
9:29
ago and my oldest son came with me and got to
9:31
watch me in action. You don't always have to
9:34
separate your lives as much as you think you
9:37
do. And I think for a long time, women felt like
9:40
people can't see me as a mom, or they can't see
9:43
that side of me, or they're going to think differently.
9:45
And it's not exactly true. So you have to find
9:47
a way for that integration. When it makes sense,
9:50
obviously. You don't want to bring your kid to
9:51
an office meeting. But ways where they don't
9:54
have to be completely separate anymore. Well,
9:56
and I think you mentioned this too. And I think
9:58
maybe this was something good that came out of
10:00
COVID is like, we all have lives outside of work.
10:02
I mean, it looks different, whether it's, you
10:04
know, you're married or you're not and have kids
10:06
or you don't. But it was like, I think COVID
10:08
at least made that door open a little bit that
10:10
like, yes, oh, there's somebody in the background,
10:13
my kids are doing school from home or you know,
10:15
what it was. But I think sometimes being able
10:18
to even acknowledge like, yes, we all have stuff
10:20
and responsibilities outside of our professional
10:23
lives and being understanding of that, that that's
10:25
That's how it is. And do you think technology
10:28
has made this better or worse? Because the fact
10:31
that we can be on our phones, have our email.
10:35
Sometimes that integration is not ever focusing.
10:39
That's a really good point, Betsy, and you have
10:42
to walk a fine line because you don't want to
10:45
not be present. So if you're going, if you're
10:48
taking off of work at four o 'clock to go to
10:50
watch your child play in a sport, right, or to
10:52
do anything, but when you're there, you're on
10:54
your phone answering emails, it defeats the entire
10:58
purpose. If you're gonna take the time to be
11:00
with your kid, take the time to be with your
11:02
kid. So I think what... technology has done maybe
11:06
in a negative way is made us a little more scattered
11:09
and less focused. If you're sitting at a dinner
11:12
table with your family and you're texting your
11:14
employees, you're not present. And I almost think
11:17
that's more detrimental than just saying, hey
11:20
guys, I have to answer this really quick. Give
11:22
me a second, leave the table, answer and come
11:24
back. So it's made it easier in that when your
11:28
child is sick and you have to work from home,
11:30
you can. But it also makes women feel like they
11:33
can never totally shut off. And that's not healthy
11:35
either. And you're not as effective. You're sending
11:37
emails from your phone, and you have spelling
11:40
errors and grammatical errors, and you're voicing
11:42
to text. It makes you look like you're not totally
11:45
focused because you're not. Because you're not.
11:48
Yeah. And I think women pride themselves. I've
11:50
done this where I'm like, I'm a great multitasker.
11:52
No one's a great multitasker. No, they're not.
11:54
You can't focus and do, to your point, do a good
11:57
job. So that kind of leads nicely into the next
11:59
session about sacrifice, support, and the invisible
12:02
load for women in leadership. Yeah, I think probably
12:06
the most not surprising but sobering fact of
12:10
all the participants that I interviewed, every
12:13
single woman, remember I interviewed college
12:15
presidents, these were all college presidents
12:17
who were mothers, every single one of them felt
12:20
like they sacrificed some level of their personal
12:23
life or their career. And for some of them, it
12:28
ended in divorces. Of all the divorced participants,
12:31
it was due to job responsibilities. Or husbands
12:35
not being supportive of the load that they had
12:38
in their job, right? If you and your spouse aren't
12:41
on the same page, it makes it really hard. to
12:44
have these kind of roles. You have to be with
12:46
a person who understands the responsibility that
12:49
you have. So the sacrifice is real. And the question
12:53
is, how much are you sacrificing? And it's not
12:55
unlike business. What is the return? For me,
12:59
when I was going through my dissertation, my
13:01
kids were two and four when I started. And I
13:04
would tear myself up about the nights that I
13:08
had to be at work to write papers. Finally got
13:11
to a place where I got super organized and just
13:13
said well Friday nights I'm staying at work And
13:15
I'm gonna write as long as I have to and I might
13:18
miss Friday nights with my kids But then all
13:20
day Saturday and all day Sunday. I'm home with
13:22
them right so you have to think about Sacrifice
13:25
in terms of what's what's the payoff of this
13:28
sure? But that and then and then the load the
13:31
workload the other startling fact was that the
13:34
higher up a woman went in her career the more
13:38
housework and family work she took on at home.
13:42
And that surprises people. People often think
13:45
if you're a stay -home mom, you're doing more
13:48
of the homework than your husband. And that's
13:50
not always the case. Back to the guilt. I think
13:54
that's what it is. So because a woman is climbing
13:57
up the ladder at work and she might have to be
13:59
away or she might have late nights, she overcompensates
14:03
by still trying to bake the cupcakes for the
14:05
class or making sure that her husband is fed
14:08
well and still keep those traditional roles.
14:11
And they're paid less than men who have children
14:15
in those jobs. And when men move up the ladder,
14:18
they're actually paid more if they have children.
14:21
which is strange, and they spend more time at
14:24
work than they do at home, and their workload
14:27
at home decreases the higher they go up the ladder.
14:31
How does that happen? Why does that happen? Maybe
14:35
because men set boundaries. Oh, that's fair.
14:38
Women have a lot of self -imposed guilt. And
14:42
it's not that their spouse is saying, you're
14:44
not home, you need to do more work when you get
14:46
here. It's that women feel this need to nurture.
14:50
And so when they're not at home, they feel like
14:52
they have to do twice as much. It is a true conflict
14:55
and guilt and a lot of sacrifice. I can totally
14:58
relate to that. When I was traveling a lot for
15:00
work, I would try to be super organized and prepared.
15:03
And I would meal prep. I'd lay out their clothes
15:05
because they were little. I would just be...
15:07
over the top and I'd be stressing so much to
15:10
get all the sun. And my husband never asked me
15:12
to do that. And eventually at one point he's
15:14
like, could you just chill? Like, we got it.
15:15
We'll figure it out. Oh my god. And I was like,
15:19
it was the guilt and it was not doing what I
15:22
needed to do. And plus I wanted it to be easy
15:24
because I didn't want him to be like, oh my god,
15:25
it's so annoying. You're traveling again. So
15:27
I tried to like eliminate any of those obstacles
15:30
until he was like, what are you doing? Chill.
15:33
You are absolutely right, Betsy. That's very
15:35
common. And I think any woman that has to travel
15:37
or be out of town in their roles has done similar
15:41
things. I even did this last night. I went out
15:44
to dinner with friends, which I never do. I do
15:47
it like quarterly. It was also not healthy. I
15:50
made sure they had meals to heat up. My kids
15:53
at this point are 17 and 15. They're self -sufficient.
15:58
Right, make bacon cheese. They can make it for
16:02
a night and I'm still making sure, like I'm texting,
16:05
are you guys good? Do you need anything? It's
16:07
just, yeah, it's tough. It's innate. So what
16:10
do we do about that? How do we do a better job
16:12
of just taking a step back? And to your point,
16:15
boundaries, I love that word. That is so true.
16:17
That is a great word to say that we don't do
16:19
as well, I think as men typically. We don't set
16:22
boundaries and we don't ask for help. We're not
16:24
good at asking for help. And that's with our
16:27
teams too. But that's the other thing about women
16:30
leaders is we tend to do way too much for our
16:32
teams. You have to delegate more. You have to
16:35
ask people to do more. You can't just step in
16:37
and fix it when it's not working. And I think
16:40
at home and the way these women became successful
16:42
and what they did learn over time is they had
16:45
to ask for help. They had to ask their kids to
16:47
help out with chores. A lot of them outsourced
16:50
some of the home responsibilities. They had a
16:53
cleaner come in once or twice a month. They ordered
16:56
groceries online to save time, right, for delivery,
16:59
which I do. I do too. And it is, it saves so
17:02
much time. You don't always get what you want,
17:04
so you have to be a little flexible, but it saves
17:07
you time and energy, right? So thinking about
17:10
what can you ask other people to help you with
17:12
so you're not trying to do all of it on your
17:15
own? And you do need that perspective. And the
17:18
other thing is people aren't going to step up
17:20
and help you on their own and not because they
17:22
don't want to. They think you can handle it.
17:25
We do such a good job of showing that we are
17:28
capable that people don't realize we need help
17:32
until we're burnt out and then we snap and we're
17:34
crying and we're stressed. It shouldn't get to
17:37
that point. When you're feeling overwhelmed,
17:40
before you're feeling overwhelmed, your family
17:42
has to help you out. If you have siblings, but
17:44
you're the one always caring for your parents,
17:46
you have to say to your siblings, I need help
17:48
with this. The burden is not all on you. You
17:51
don't have to do that to prove anything to anyone.
17:54
So ask for help. No, that's great. And I think
17:56
too, especially when it comes to the house piece
17:58
of it, what I learned is it's my expectations
18:00
are higher than my husband's or my kids. So I
18:03
like OCD. Everything has to be away. Like I don't
18:06
like clutter. So sometimes I'd be mad that I'm
18:09
like running around the house doing that. And
18:10
then eventually, especially as the girls got
18:12
older, it's like you pick up the stuff off the
18:14
steps and ask someone to unload the dishwasher.
18:16
Sometimes it's your husband and your kids. You
18:19
have to tell them what to do. No, you really
18:21
do. It's not clear to them or they don't care
18:23
that there's dishes in the sink. That's right.
18:26
Don't be resentful about it. Yes, I totally would
18:29
do that. Just ask them to do it and then be appreciative
18:31
even if it's not to your standard. You got to
18:33
let some of that go too. That's a great point.
18:35
I know. That's very fair. It's hard. This is
18:38
literally my life. But I agree outsourcing is
18:42
huge and asking for help I think are the two
18:44
big things and especially I think when the girls
18:47
were young it's having that reliable Child care,
18:49
you know, I think sometimes you try to piecemeal
18:51
child care together and rely on family, which
18:53
is great But you know, sometimes you're like
18:55
look I gotta I gotta bite the bullet I gotta
18:56
find consistent daycare or whatever it is and
18:59
that's hard because again It goes back to where
19:00
you feel like you're making a sacrifice But you
19:03
need that reliability and consistency in your
19:04
life, especially your kids are young you do and
19:07
that's a good point So the other thing in all
19:09
of this research is for women with younger kids,
19:12
it's absolutely the hardest. And when you do
19:15
have to put your kids in daycare, and I remember
19:17
I used to feel... I don't know if resentful is
19:20
the right word, because I loved working, right?
19:22
But I would go to the drop -off line at school
19:24
when my kids were little. And there'd be moms
19:26
in their workout outfits. And they were stay
19:28
-home moms. And they were going to go get to
19:30
work out for two hours. And here I am. I've already
19:33
put two hours in, and it's only 7 AM. And now
19:36
I'm getting ready to go work all day at work.
19:39
And I'm leaving my kids in before care and after
19:42
care and feeling like a monster because I'm doing
19:45
that, all to find out my kids loved that time.
19:48
They made friends. They were playing kickball.
19:51
They were doing crafts. Like they were okay.
19:54
Your kids will be okay. It was you. Yep. Totally
19:57
been there. I get that as well. Well, that leads
20:00
nicely into the next piece, which motherhood
20:02
as leadership training, which is something I
20:04
haven't really thought about. So talk to us about
20:06
that. A lot of people think that the two roles
20:08
are totally separate and that's not the case.
20:11
So every woman that I interviewed found that
20:14
being a mom actually prepared them better to
20:17
be college presidents. And when you think about
20:19
some of the skills and even just leadership roles
20:22
in general. So the two biggest things that people
20:26
felt like motherhood trained them for was number
20:28
one, time management. Women are just better at
20:31
time management. You have to be, right? So time
20:34
management and organizational skills, they kind
20:36
of go hand in hand, but getting very organized
20:40
with your time, being structured, knowing when
20:43
you have to do something, when you have to be
20:45
somewhere else, you have to have good organizational
20:47
skills, especially as your kids get older and
20:49
then they're into sports and activities and you're
20:52
managing a calendar, right? So you're almost
20:54
a project manager with a game chart. that outlines
20:57
your whole family life. That's all transferable
21:00
to your jobs. We're also really good at juggling
21:03
different roles. You have to be able to be, you
21:06
know, a disciplinary one minute and then be a
21:09
friend the next minute and be able to deal with
21:12
all of the emotions. Mothers have increased patience
21:15
and understanding. They're often better supervisors
21:19
than any other sector because you have to have
21:23
skills where you can listen and be patient and
21:27
be kind. A lot of the moms found that being a
21:30
mom helped them with their anxiety because they
21:35
would feel so anxious all the time but then realizing
21:38
having kids kind of puts everything in perspective.
21:42
You start understanding what's important and
21:45
what's not important and so little things that
21:47
might have gotten you upset. don't really bother
21:50
you anymore. So you have a way to control your
21:53
anxiety. And then the other big thing is women
21:55
in general are more transformational leaders
21:58
than men. They just are. They're transformational
22:01
leaders. And when you put in being a mom on top
22:05
of it, your emotional intelligence skills are
22:09
heightened. You are able to be more attuned into
22:12
people. You can read people that you're communicating
22:15
with better. You have more compassion, more empathy,
22:19
and those are all skills that help you. And before
22:22
they might have been looked at like a weakness.
22:24
A lot of times people think that women are emotional.
22:28
Emotional intelligence is not the same thing
22:30
as being an emotional person. It just means that
22:32
you're able to read a room and you're able to
22:34
correspond and communicate with people in a way
22:37
that's more effective instead of just treating
22:40
everyone the same or being kind of cold about
22:42
it. So those are all things that make you a better
22:45
leader. Well, and that makes sense too, especially
22:48
when you think about culture. There's a lot of
22:49
talk about, you know, how you're building the
22:51
culture in your organization and being intentional
22:54
about it. And to me, a lot of that goes to what
22:56
you just mentioned with understanding how you
22:58
treat people. Everyone's different and, you know,
23:01
understanding emotions. So to me, that would
23:03
help women build better cultures and their organizations.
23:07
Oh, and negotiating. That's the last one I'll
23:10
say. Yeah. Being a mother gives you really good
23:14
negotiating skills because you are constantly
23:17
negotiating with your children, right? So thinking
23:21
about how you can transfer that skill into any
23:24
kind of business situation where negotiation
23:27
is part of it. Yeah. And how about picking your
23:29
battles? That's something I think. I don't know
23:31
if I learned that at work or as a mom. That's
23:34
such a good one. We say that at work all the
23:37
time. We even say that when the board's there.
23:39
I've got to pick my battles. This one is not
23:41
worth fighting. Not worth your time. Yeah. Yeah.
23:43
So true. That's so funny. So those are all so
23:47
great. So how do we redefine leadership for women,
23:50
especially women who are in leadership roles
23:52
or maybe they have a small business having other
23:54
employees? Like how do we do better in these
23:57
situations and support our employees? I think
24:00
you really have to support women. And people
24:03
say that all the time, and yet they don't do
24:06
it. And that's not just women with children.
24:08
That's women in general. Because the other thing
24:10
I found was that none of the participants I interviewed
24:13
felt like being a mother held them back from
24:16
leadership positions. What they felt like was
24:19
that being a woman often was the differentiator
24:22
for them. in getting into leadership positions
24:25
because they were very and remember this is 10
24:28
years ago and these were women that had been
24:29
in their roles for a little while they were often
24:31
the only woman in a room with a lot of men and
24:35
so how do women feel more confident about themselves.
24:39
I think the biggest thing that women struggle
24:41
with is imposter syndrome. It's talked about
24:44
all the time, but we do have a tendency to not
24:47
want to move forward or to take on a leadership
24:50
role until we are 100 % certain that we're ready.
24:53
And even then, we don't feel like... we're really
24:57
ready to be in that role. And so for a lot of
25:00
women that get to leadership positions, they
25:02
do feel like they're an imposter. They feel fake.
25:05
Like, I can't believe I'm in this role. I'm not
25:08
sure that I know what I'm doing. And I think
25:11
what we have to share with women is every single
25:14
person feels that. No one's perfect. No one is
25:18
perfect and you're not going to know. So you
25:21
don't have to pretend to know everything. You
25:24
don't have to come in colder or trying to be
25:27
more assertive because you're a woman or you're
25:29
a mother. You need to be genuine. People see
25:32
through phoniness. You need to take a genuine
25:35
interest and curiosity into people. If you are
25:38
a woman in a leadership position, you need to
25:41
make it easier for the women under you. I think
25:43
that's another thing where those of us that have
25:46
kind of come through and have had some nightmare
25:49
experiences tend to be tougher. Like I made it
25:52
and you need to experience this. That's not true,
25:55
right? So what can you do different? I almost
25:57
never schedule 7 .30 or 8 a .m. meetings. And
26:01
I'm a morning person. I would prefer that, but
26:04
I know how hard it was to get my kids to before
26:07
care school, you know, or to on the school bus.
26:10
If you have kids in elementary, their buses are
26:12
coming at nine o 'clock. Right. So annoying.
26:16
Even if she's bringing her children to daycare.
26:18
If you have your meetings start at nine, just
26:22
be conscious of it. Don't schedule meetings for
26:24
four o 'clock in the evening. If you want women
26:26
to be on boards, the board meetings can't start
26:29
at six o 'clock because they're not going to
26:32
ever pick their job over their children. And
26:35
when we're looking at career theories, there
26:38
was a theorist, his name was Super, it's called
26:41
the Lifespan Approach. And the Lifespan Approach
26:43
is you always have one dominant role. in your
26:46
life. No matter how many roles you have, and
26:48
women have multiple, there's one dominant role.
26:50
If you have children, almost always your dominant
26:53
role is going to be motherhood. It just is. It
26:56
supersedes everything. So when you're having
26:59
multiple events in the evenings, your moms aren't
27:02
going to be able to be there. Or if they are,
27:04
it's only going to be for a certain period of
27:06
time. So it's hard to move up a ladder when everything
27:09
is on these hours that conflict. with their childcare.
27:14
So not to say you can't have evening events,
27:17
but then it's like you're giving a few months
27:19
notice so they can make arrangements. Or you're
27:22
asking them, and not in a way where you're asking
27:24
them in front of a group of other people. You
27:27
might want to ask them one on one. Like I'm thinking
27:29
about this event at 6 p .m. on a Wednesday and
27:32
two months from now, do you think you'll be able
27:34
to make it? That way she can make arrangements.
27:36
So I think we have to find a way to incorporate
27:40
more women into these positions because because
27:41
women often are better leaders. I know our men
27:44
are not gonna like to hear that. And I've had
27:46
a lot of male bosses that I've actually loved
27:48
and admired because they pushed us. They pushed
27:51
me. And the one thing I will share is that in
27:54
all of the women in my study, none of them, not
27:57
a single one would have ever aspired to be a
27:59
college president if someone didn't tell her
28:02
that she had the ability to do it. Every one
28:05
of them was encouraged by someone. And when I
28:08
thought about that, I thought about my own mentors.
28:10
who said the same thing to me because I had never
28:13
thought about it either. So what we can do for
28:15
women leaders is nominate them for awards, encourage
28:20
them to apply for a job that's a leadership position,
28:24
help them with their CVs or their resumes, and
28:28
get them to a place where they believe that they
28:31
can do it because self -efficacy is the number
28:33
one determinant in whether or not a woman is
28:36
successful. Oh my gosh, I love that. And encourage
28:38
is such an important word, right? I think it's
28:41
something we can all do better. And you have
28:42
to be intentional. Sometimes you have to think
28:44
about it. You could think really highly of somebody,
28:47
but do they know that you think highly of them?
28:49
And are you saying it to other people who maybe
28:51
could help that person get promoted? So it's
28:53
just that visibility and exposure that's so important
28:56
to get ahead. Absolutely. So advice for moms
29:01
and who are aspiring for that leadership role
29:03
What did you find that you think are those sort
29:05
of key takeaways to continue to grow in any in
29:08
any organization? I think a few things one find
29:12
find your circle of support system I think we
29:15
tend to think we have to do it on our own. Otherwise,
29:17
it's not real So your support system can't only
29:21
be from your significant other Your significant
29:24
other is a great source of support, but they're
29:26
also the love of your life, right? So you don't
29:30
always want to be burdening them about everything
29:32
under the sun that's bothering you. You can find
29:35
support systems in your colleagues, in women's
29:39
community networks, find a group of women in
29:41
the community that you can talk to. A lot of
29:44
women that have boards, your board of directors
29:47
can be a great source of support. I have to say,
29:49
and I'm not just saying this because you're a
29:51
board member, Betsy. I think I have the greatest
29:53
board of directors. I have the most supportive
29:56
group of people that I know I could pick up the
29:59
phone and call any one of them and say, I need
30:01
help with this and ask for help. If you get nothing
30:04
out of this, ask for help before you crash out.
30:07
As my kids would say, everyone has that moment
30:10
where you've hit, you've just, you've gotten
30:12
to the top and you can't take another thing and
30:14
you're crashing out before you get there. Ask
30:17
for help with your house. Ask for help with the
30:19
groceries. At work, ask for help if you don't
30:22
understand how to do something. Because that's
30:25
not a sign of weakness. It shows that you know
30:28
your limitations and that you're setting yourself
30:30
up for success, not failure. That's so true.
30:32
I love that. That's a huge takeaway. So Linda,
30:36
thank you for sharing your findings with us.
30:38
This is amazing. And like I said, this is literally
30:40
reiterating everything we've talked about in
30:41
the first 10, 12 episodes of Loud and Lifted.
30:44
So thank you so much for that. So if people want
30:46
to connect with you or find out more about Central
30:49
Penn College, where can we do that? So centralpen
30:52
.edu is where you're going to find anything Central
30:54
Pen. You can find me on LinkedIn or Facebook,
30:57
Linda Fidriese Williams, for email lindafidriese
31:00
at centralpen .edu. Awesome. Thank you so much
31:02
for being here. You're welcome. Thanks for having
31:04
me. Linda just reminded us that the goal isn't
31:07
perfection, that support matters just as much
31:09
as strategy, that motherhood isn't a barrier
31:12
to leadership. It's a training ground. If you're
31:15
a woman leading in any space, this episode is
31:17
your permission slip to drop the guilt, rewrite
31:19
the story. and do it your way. Balance is a myth,
31:22
leadership is messy, and you're still more than
31:25
enough. If this episode spoke to you, share it
31:27
with another woman who needs to hear it. Please
31:29
don't forget to subscribe to this podcast and
31:31
follow us on Instagram. And keep showing up loud
31:34
and lifted.