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Balancing The Gut - Skin Axis And Microbiome with NY Times Best Selling Author, Dr. William Davis · Skin Anarchy

• 0:02
  SPEAKER_00: Hi guys, welcome back to another episode of Speaker Anarchy.
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_00: This is your host, Ekta, and I'm really excited today because I don't get the opportunity very often to interview true medical experts and visionaries in the field of medicine, but also obviously dermatology and skin health, as we all love to hear about here on SA.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_00: And I am really excited about our guest today.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_00: He's medically truly acclaimed.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_00: He's a cardiologist and number one New York Times bestselling author of the Wheat Belly series of books, as well as Undoctored and most recently Super Gut.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_00: So he's very well versed in a lot of different fields of science.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm really excited.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_00: And also he is the co-founder and chief medical officer of Realized Therapeutic Corp.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_00: And we're going to be talking a lot about what he's doing there.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_00: So welcome to the show, Dr.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_00: Davis.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_00: I'm really excited to welcome you and to have you on the show.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, thank you.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_01: Glad to be here.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, I'm really excited to dive in, but I'd love to learn actually from you about your amazing background because you've done so much.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_00: And just to give our listeners an idea of your background and where you're coming from.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_01: Well, like you, I come from the conventional world where I practiced cardiology for many years, about 30 years, doing procedures and all that kind of thing.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_01: But then I also shifted my attention to more of a preventive type of practice after I opened up a CT heart scan device in Milwaukee.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_01: And it became clear that the conventional solutions really don't have any impact, almost no impact at all.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_01: That is, cutting fat and cholesterol, taking a statin cholesterol drug, taking a baby aspirin, all those conventional things really do almost nothing.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_01: And so what do I do?
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_01: I have thousands of people freaking out on me because we're tracking their what's called cardiocalcium score obtained through a CTR scan, and they're increasing it about 25 to 30 percent per year.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_01: You put them on a high dose of statin drug, low fat diet, aspirin, and it goes up 25 to 30 percent per year.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_01: So people are freaking out.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_01: Of course, my colleagues would say, well, wait till they have their heart attack and then take care of it, which of course is a terrible answer because as you well know, people die at home or en route to the hospital.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_01: So it took many years of stumbling about and trying to find better answers.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_01: And one of the things I did was I looked at Ron Krauss's data from University of California, San Francisco, and he published these data 30 years ago that it's wheat grains and sugars that provoke formation of the real cause of heart disease, which is small LDL particles, not LDL cholesterol.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_01: LDL cholesterol is a poor excuse, a distant and indirect marker for LDL particles.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_01: Well, you can measure LDL particles, it's readily available.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_01: And it'd be clear that wheat grains and sugars were the culprit.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_01: You remove it, and to my great surprise, not only did small LDL in something like an NMR panel drop some maybe 1800 nanomoles per liter to zero.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_01: But then people with things like this, they say, Well, you didn't tell me I'd lose 53 pounds.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_01: You didn't tell me I'd have to stop my insulin and my metformin for diabetes.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_01: You didn't tell me I could stop three blood pressure medicines.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_01: I was getting so lightheaded my blood pressure was 90.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_01: I started to transfer, so I stumbled into this notion that wheat and grains were the underlying cause for so many health problems.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_01: That was the origin of the wheat belly series books.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_00: That is phenomenal.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_00: And I cannot tell you how it's truly a breath of fresh air to hear you talk about it in this light because as you know, in medicine, we learned conventionally that the only time we talk about wheat, grains, anything related to gluten is when you have celiac.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_00: That's what we learned.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_00: That's the extent of a lot of physicians their knowledge enough around it.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_00: And we don't have that understanding of the gut microbiome, gut health, gut immunology.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_00: We just don't understand it.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_00: So that's remarkable that you were able to tie this so closely to cardiology.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_00: And wow, I'm really blown away by that.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_00: It's very cool.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_01: That's why I love what you're doing.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_01: You're open-minded, you're willing to learn.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_01: I wish all of our colleagues were like that.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_01: Of course, many of them say things like, Well, I didn't learn that in training 25 years ago.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_01: And they don't open their ears and eyes to what's going on, the science that's unfolding.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_01: Because in my experience, the elimination of wheat and grains and doing some other things, of course, is a spectacular start to reclaiming control over health as well as weight.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_00: And I want to dive into that actually, because you have some really amazing human clinical trial data that you've had a lot of success with what you're doing.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_00: So could you tell us a little bit about oxytocin and your work with oxytocin and just what you've created here as a nuclear cosmetic component here for the beauty industry and the wellness industry?
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_00: I just want to learn more about that.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it started in a really wacky way.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_01: I don't even remember why, but I was thinking about this hormone, oxytocin.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_01: And there was a very elegant series of studies performed at MIT, the Massachusetts Institute of Technology.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_01: And this cancer group were looking at this microbe, Lactobacillus rotori, as an anti-cancer agent.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_01: But they stumbled on a host of effects they did not expect, such as an increase in skin thickness, dermal thickness, an explosion of collagen in the dermal layer of skin, acceleration of healing, a restoration of the thymus gland that undergoes atrophy as we age, an increase in social behavior, mating behavior, a restoration in older mice of youthful muscle, a threefold increase in testosterone in the males.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_01: In other words, a whole host of change.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_01: I thought, well, this is interesting.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_01: As it turned out, that microbe they were playing with is commercially available, but it was made for infants.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_01: So the dose was real small.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_01: So I just reasoned.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_01: Let's ferment it as yogurt, not like the stuff in the store, very different.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_01: But I used a method of prolonged fermentation, 36 hours at 100 degrees Fahrenheit.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_01: And I did flow cytometry on these yogurts.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_01: It tastes like yogurt, even though it's not yogurt.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_01: It's like curd, right?
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_01: Like curd.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, it's curds in whey.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_01: You do get some separation.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_01: And we did flow cytometry on the yogurts.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_01: We get about 300 billion counts per half cup serving.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_01: So we, in effect, increased the counts of microbes from the tablets that we sourced the probiotic from about a thousand fold.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_01: And I just talked about this with my audience, so I had thousands and thousands of people doing it, and all the things seen in mice were proving this often doesn't happen, right?
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_01: The observations made in mice don't play out in humans.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_01: But everything play out.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_01: And the lady, you know, ladies are so much better at observing skin effects than guys are, but they were losing their wrinkles.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_01: They had smoother skin, increased skin moisture, a restoration of youthful muscle.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_01: They're stronger.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_01: They lost waist circumference.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_01: Their libidos went up.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_01: Vaginal dryness reversed.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_01: Guys had a 50%, not as much as the mice, but a 50% rise in testosterone.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_01: There's an increase in libido.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_01: So all the things seen in mice I've seen play out.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_01: So I did a small clinical trial that wanted to validate the skin effects.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_01: And we used methods like high-resolution skin ultrasound, which is a way to measure dermal thickness.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_01: And we did indeed get a dramatic increase in dermal thickness, 15% over 90 days.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_01: Typically, if we take only collagen, as you know, or hyaluronic acid, you get maybe a six to seven percent increase in dermal thickness.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_01: We're getting 15%.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_01: But what really took me by surprise and loss of wrinkles, all that kind of stuff, good stuff.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_01: Ladies were thrilled because they felt like they looked 10, 20 years younger.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_01: But there was another, we happened to measure waist circumference just because it's free and doesn't cost anything.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_01: And when I got these data, I didn't believe it at first.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_01: But the average reduction in waste circumference was about 7.2 centimeters or about just short of three inches.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_01: Some ladies as much as eight and a half inches or 21.6 centimeters.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_01: So dramatic loss of abdominal fat.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_01: Even more interesting, they did not lose weight.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_01: Well, how can you lose up to eight and a half inches?
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_01: And by the way, we told these ladies, please don't change your diet, don't change your exercise program, just take these things.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_01: Black missiles roterite, I happen to combine it with collagen peptides, hyaluronic acid, and acid xantin to amplify skin effects.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't think that their waists would shrink without losing weight.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_01: Consistent with the animal evidence and my large anecdotal evidence, I believe what's happening is they're restoring youthful muscle.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_01: And that, of course, puts people in control of their basometabolic rate.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_01: That's a big problem when people lose weight.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_01: They lose muscle, lots of it, in fact, and they lose control over basal metabolic rate.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_01: That's why people regain all the weight.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_01: So I think by accident I stumbled on a way to alter body composition while also having more youthful facial features.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_00: That's phenomenal.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I love that this is all tied to microbiology.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_00: This is amazing.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_00: Honestly, Dr.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_00: Davis, I grew up with my dad is in microbiology, right?
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_00: So I grew up with under learning about these, just the effect of the microbiome on some parts of the body.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_00: Now we're at different levels, but now this is like really showing people that your organs are so closely tied via this network of this whole other body that exists, which is the entire microbiome of your body.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_00: And if that is also communicating just like our cellular communications are happening, this is next level phenomenal.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_00: It's like understanding the microbiome.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_00: I think you're looking down from a higher perspective.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it's such a ripe time in the wellness industry to be talking about this because what I've seen a lot of, and I don't know if you've observed this as well, is that people are focusing so closely on like one specific area, right?
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_00: When it comes to something like communication between organs or microbiome communication or whatever that might be, cellular communication, but we're not looking at the big picture.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_00: So to find something like this, this really ties together so much stuff.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_00: I'm blown away by it.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_00: That's amazing.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it was sheer dumb luck.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_01: What I think is probably the lots of microbes are important, but lactobacillus roteri, I think, is probably the most important of all.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_01: And interestingly, almost all of us have lost it because it's very susceptible to common antibiotics.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_01: So you could have taken a moxicillin, say 20 years ago for a urinary tract or upper ester infection.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_01: You've lost all your roterite, even though it's ubiquitous in hunter-gather human populations, unexposed antibiotics, of course, and other mammals.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_01: They all have rotorite.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_01: Almost nobody in the modern world has it anymore.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_01: And when you restore it, wonderful things happen.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_01: In addition to all those things I've listed, it sends a signal via the myenteric, the nervous system of the GI tract up through the vagus nerve to the brain to release oxytocin.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_01: So there's a marked increase in the people think of oxytocin as the hormone of love and empathy, and it is that.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_01: So there is an increase in the intensity of love and affection, generosity, acceptance of other people's opinions.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_01: So I actually see people's behavior changing.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_01: But there's another really interesting aspect to roteri, and that is it's also unique among microbes in that it doesn't just colonize the colon, it also colonizes the 24 fetus small intestine.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_01: And by my estimation, there's about 150 million people in this country, about one in two, have fecal microbes that have overproliferated in the small intestine, so-called SIBO or small intestinal bacterial overgrowth.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_01: Rotari colonizes a small intestine where it takes up residence and produces what are called bacteriocins.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_01: These are natural antibiotics effective against fecal microbes.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_01: And we're seeing this reverse now.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_01: We're seeing people's SIBO.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_01: That's important because when you have fecal microbes inhabiting the small intestine, the small intestine is, of course, very permeable.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_01: That's where we absorb vitamins and minerals and fatty acids, etc.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_01: So the small intestine is very permeable and it's not equipped to deal with fecal microbes like E.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_01: coli or salmonella.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_01: So when you have trillions of microbes that have invaded the small intestine, a lot of their toxic products enter the bloodstream, so-called endotoxemia.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_01: That causes skin problems like redness and rashes.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_01: It causes joint problems, it causes depression, it's a contributed to cognitive impairment, to coronary disease, to atrial fibrillation, to type 2 diabetes, to weight gain, to expansion of visceral fat.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_01: So, what I think we stumbled on with this restoring roterite is the key to so many facets of health, including improvements in skin health and a change in the shape and body composition that is we're seeing people increase muscle, regain youthful muscle, and lose abdominal visceral fat.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_00: And I love that you mentioned the multiple areas that the specific species does colonize.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_00: And I think this really is fascinating for I think a lot of consumers.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_00: It should be because we're emerging on this area, I think, where we know that the microbiome is different for everybody, right?
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_00: It's like a fingerprint.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_00: Everybody's got their own microbiome.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_00: But there are these underlying species of bacteria that are very fundamental to how everything works.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_00: And I know you had brought up a very interesting point when you mentioned the gut permeability factor, because one of the leading edge areas of research in microbiome research is understanding leaky gut.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_00: How can we fix leaky gut?
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_00: And leaky gut is the mega problem when it comes to inflammation in the body.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_00: So it's like we're trying to understand that, and we keep coming back to this level of no, it's the microbiome and it's species that are resident naturally, you know, in everybody that are the key to understanding this because they're the ones that are fixing barriers, they're fixing the gut barrier.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_00: And for everyone listening, I'm just trying to explain that because if you had something like that completely messed up, where those species that are really kind of taking over and contributing to the healing process that naturally occurs, that's where you're gonna get even things like megacolon.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_00: Like we see this in the ear all the time, like C.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_00: diff, you know, Clostridium difficile takes over, and then you get megacolon, you get perforations.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_00: There's so many problems.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_00: Why?
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_00: Because the gut gets weakened as soon as your microbiome is completely out of wax.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_00: That's just what happens.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_00: So it's just so fascinating because yeah, this species is there in a lot of places, but then the ramifications of not having imbalance are also there, right?
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_00: In the overall immunology and immune response.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_01: So very interesting.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_01: I put these things together: the lactobacillus roteri with the marine sourced collagen peptides, hyaluronic acid, and acid xantha.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_01: I did it for skin purposes, not expecting this change in body composition and all these other effects.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_01: And one of the things I underappreciated was the incredible power of all things of hyaluronic acid consumed orally.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_01: I know lots of ladies like to apply it as a serum around their eyes and such, a local effect.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_01: Because we've been told cut your fat, cut your cholesterol, it caused many modern people to abandon consumption of organ meats like tongue and heart and intestine and stomach, which are rich in collagen and hyaluronic acid.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_01: By the way, and I see people tossing, for instance, they're using boneless, skinless chicken breasts, and they've thrown away the hyaluronic acid and collagen sources.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_01: So when you restore those missing nutrients, there's an increase in dermal thickness, there is improvement in joint health because we increase the synovial fluid volume, the lubricating fluid in joints, of course.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_01: Taking collagen also increases joint collagen.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_01: So it's an area where we have a redo.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_01: One of the things that I bring this up because one of the things I did not appreciate is that hyaluronic acid that is from brain, skin, and other organisms of animals, no plant sources, is a prebiotic fiber and it nourishes the microbiome.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_01: It has spectacular effects.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_01: It blooms the species like acromancy and fecalobacterium that produce the fatty acid butyrate.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_01: And I know that's kind of complex, but it in turn leads to such things as weight loss, reduction in blood pressure, reduction in insules and blood sugar, better dreams, deeper sleep, better skin.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_01: You know, butyrate's a major mediator of skin health because acidifies the skin.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_01: As you know, healthy skin is acidic, typically has a pH of about four, four point five, something like that.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_01: Unhealthy skin, as in someone with severe, psoriasis, rosacea, et cetera, typically has less acidic or even alkaline skin.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_01: And that allows proliferation of microbial species like Staphylococcus aureus.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_01: So, of all crazy things, getting hyaluronic acid orally not only makes your skin smoother and more moist and makes your joints healthier, but also nourishes the microbiome and yields all these downstream effects, something that most people have abandoned in their diet.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_00: Now, you know, this is one of the things that I think comes up a lot in like when we're taking any kind of supplement is just the idea of like, is it actually going to get to where we want it to get to without being destroyed by like stomach acid and just natural things that occur?
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_00: So when you were looking into this and creating something that is a supplement kind of product, what were some of the hurdles that were there from a biology perspective, a delivery perspective, I guess?
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_01: You know, one of the great holes of knowledge in the microbiome is so-called dose response.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_01: In other words, if there's a study, for instance, with lactobacillus gastri, which, like rotari, is one of the few microbes that colonize the small intestine.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_01: So gasterite likewise, very helpful when you're trying to eradicate SIBO, small intestinal bacterial overgrowth.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_01: Well, we often don't know how many microbes.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_01: And one of the problems with commercial probiotics is it's very expensive to manufacture and purchase these probiotics.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_01: And so they tend to give you really slow numbers.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_01: So that's what one of the advantages of making this into a yogurt is you're getting huge amplification.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_01: So when we create a product, we settle with 40 billion, which is still a lot of microbes.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_01: You'll see in non-commercial probiotics that have like one billion, sometimes even millions, which sounds like a lot, but a microbe is trivial.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_01: And so that's one of the great difficulties.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_01: I do believe 40 billion works.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know how much more 300 billion does.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_01: So what I was mentioning earlier is that there's a study, for instance, using Lactobacillus gastri, the B and R17 strain, and given to people, one billion did nothing.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_01: Placebo did nothing, of course, one billion did nothing.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_01: 10 billion caused a five centimeter reduction in waste circumference.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_01: Now, if that happened with 10 billion, what would happen with 100 billion or 300 billion?
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_01: So we often don't know.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_01: We don't have the budget of the pharmaceutical industry.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_01: So when we do our studies for a couple hundred thousand dollars, that depletes our budget.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_01: We don't have the luxury of doing these multiple arm studies where you look at one billion, ten billion, a hundred billion, five hundred billion.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_01: But my sense is that in general, the higher the number, the better off you are, and the greater the biological effect to some point.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_01: So that's a big hurdle.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_01: One of the good things about rudder is it's been shown to be very good at surviving stomach acid and bile acid, as you point out.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_01: Many microbes die in that harsh environment.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_01: But rudry and gastri, the two upper GI small intestine colonizers, are very good.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_01: There's high survivability of those two species into the small intestine.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_00: Wow, that's amazing.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_00: I love to hear that.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, I would be very curious to see, like at the higher concentrations, because it's really interesting that it's eliminating specifically, you know, fat around the waist area, because you had brought up some really, really great points about like insulin resistance diabetes.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_00: And one of the things that I kept thinking about was how people sometimes have like elevated cortisol levels because of stress in their lives, and they you might not have full-blown cushions or an actual really bad situation, but cortisol by itself contributes to that.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm just wondering how things like cortisol levels low in these patients that are losing that waste circumference and how it's helping with overall stress levels as well.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_00: Because when we talk about skin health specifically, there's a huge component with stress in terms of what it does to your body, but then also what it does for your skin and breaking out and causing certain secretions to be upregulated and all of that stuff.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_00: So I'd be very curious to see, in addition to that, what's going on on that level.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_00: But I also want to ask you, can you talk to us a little bit about the inflammation aspect of all of this?
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_00: Because I feel like right now, words like inflamma aging and the inflammation and all of these are just buzzing.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't think consumers are truly able to wrap their heads around what does all of this mean and why does it matter in terms of the microbiome?
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_00: And how does this really tie into all that?
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, those are such excellent points.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_01: So, as you know, cortisol is out of control for many modern people due to stress.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_01: They have abnormal high surges in the morning, for instance, or inappropriate timing of surges like nighttime and they can't sleep.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_01: Well, one of the effects of roter is it slashes cortisol levels.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_01: So if you have a really high morning cortisol, it cuts it by about half.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_01: There's also evidence, the other micro I mentioned, gasterai.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_01: There's human evidence where medical students were facing an exam, a very difficult exam, were experiencing very high cortisols.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_01: Well, placebo, no effect, of course.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_01: Gastri virtually eliminated that stress-induced rise in cortisol.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_01: And that's so important, as you know, for body composition and shape because cortisol causes expansion of abdominal visceral fat and also causes loss of muscle.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_01: So here we have a way, I think, to once again, yet another mechanism by which we can regrow youthful muscle and reduce abdominal visceral fat.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_01: And of course, reducing abdominal visceral fat translates into a dramatic reduction in all those inflammatory markers, C-reactive protein, enoleukin 6, andoleukin 1 beta, all those things.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_01: But I think it goes even farther than that.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_01: So when rotari colonized the small intestine and kills off all those invading fecal microbes, that means all those toxins that would have entered the bloodstream don't enter the bloodstream anymore.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_01: I have a good friend of mine, his name is Dr.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_01: Rald Kenell, and he is an academic microbiologist.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_01: And he's got a formulation, it's a probiotic, and they did a small clinical trial, 60 people, and they got the serum levels of the endotoxin, the so-called lipopolysaccharide endotoxin, to drop just short of 100%.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_01: Now, that's a different collection of microbes, but what we're seeing is that the microbiome, when used properly, in this case rural gas ri, you can eliminate endotoxemia.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_01: That gives people dramatic control over abdominal circumference, inflammation, blood pressure, blood sugar, sleep, skin skin.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's insane.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_00: That's so cool.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_00: I'm over here geeking out.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_00: That's really cool.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_00: Because you're right, and the whole endotoxin conversation never comes up either because we don't talk about the most inflammatory thing that's going on in your body.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_00: And this happens so much with people, more so than you realize.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_00: You're being exposed to your bodies in this state where endotoxin is kind of creating havoc, turning on a whole gamut of inflammatory cascades.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_00: So this is amazing.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_00: This is such exciting work.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_00: That's so cool.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I should also mention that I was guilty of underestimating the power of the carotenoids, the world of the carotenoids, beta-carotene, lutein, xetzanthin, crypto xanthin, in this case, astaxanthin, because astaxanthin is a very powerful antioxidative compound.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_01: But I did not appreciate that.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_01: It's being appreciated as something that actually turns off many of the mediators of, as you point out, something called inflammation, that is the inflammation associated with aging.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_01: So it turns off nuclear factor kappa B, NRF1, all those markers that tend to increase as we get older.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_01: And this astanthin, there's independent evidence that asthoxanthin alone, four milligrams per day, and component of diet, astaxanthin alone reduces waste circumference by about three centimeters.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_01: I did not know this because I did this for skin purposes and gave us, of course, beautiful skin effects, but I didn't appreciate that by accident I concocted something that has dramatic effects on body shape and composition, and a lot of it via reducing inflammation.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_00: No, I mean I think this is definitely one of those, like you said, you stumbled upon something that's so multifactorial.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's a discovery in every organ system, basically.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_00: I'm really, really curious though.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_00: We had started the interview off with you discussing from the cardiology standpoint of everything, right?
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_00: In terms of like coronary heart disease and stuff, and I'm really curious.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: Curious to see if they would ever do a cohort study examining people for 20 years and seeing can we reduce the risk for any of these kind of disorders, like CAD or MI or any of it?
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_01: Excellent point.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_01: I think you're tapping into one of the least explored areas that has some of the greatest potential.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_01: If it's my personal view, I can't substantiate this just from what I've seen.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_01: It's my personal view that SIBO and endotoxemia is the number one cardiovascular risk factor for cardiomyathies, for myocarditis, for coronary disease, for stroke, for atrial fibrillation, perhaps other rhythmic disorders.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_01: And yet it's not even on the radar, most of our colleagues.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_01: And it's a huge factor in because it adds to hypertension, small L particles, hypertriglyceridemia, more inflammation, more insulin resistance.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_01: So SIBO and endotoxemia, if you gain control of that, I believe it's going to be proven that you are given enormous control over cardiovascular risk across a number of conditions.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_00: That's definitely, definitely exciting because that would cut a lot of things.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_00: Even when I think of like health policy and stuff.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, the amount of patients that are going to the doctor's office, how many people out there tuning in?
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_00: You guys know somebody in your family that has diabetes or insulin resistance or god forbid, you know, an actually really serious cardiac disorder.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_00: It's a really big conversation.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_00: It goes far beyond skin at this point.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_00: And I have noticed that in the supplement industry.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_00: And Dr.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_00: Davis, I want to get your input on this because I've noticed that the supplement industry is finally having its golden moment, right?
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_00: It's finally coming out of this, I think, dark era where people were scared of supplements, they were scared of trying new things, and now we're coming out in this way of like, no, this is science.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_00: Here we go.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_00: Here's real science.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_00: So, in terms of getting this on a level of in doctor offices, like family practitioners and stuff like that, what is your take on that?
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_00: Having a supplement like this?
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_00: Because if it's good for you in all of you know, in all ways, like I'm just curious, like how to get more doctors on board, you know, with like being more experimental with these kinds of things.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_01: I think doing what you're doing and what I'm doing, that is trying to educate the public, yes, but also our colleagues, because as you know, I think I'm older than you, and I remember going through training and edu, and there was almost nothing, almost nothing said about nutrition, supplements.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_01: They kind of poo-pooed it, as you point out, and yet they're among the most important things you could ever do.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_01: So I hope there comes a day, not for a generation or two, when our colleagues are first experts at nutrition and the intelligent application of supplements, and experts in the microbiome.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_01: And only then do we resort to such things as replacing a joint or putting a stent in somebody's arteries or all those things that we do in conventional healthcare.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_01: I think people, once they understand this, once our colleagues understand this, you're given a ticket for magnificent health, including control over your skin health, youthfulness, and body shape and appearance.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_00: So you guys notice that huge difference in the dermis, right?
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_00: And this is important because I want to actually hone in on this a little bit more.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_00: And for the understanding of listeners out there, is because I know a lot of people are going into like clinics right now, they're getting way more aesthetic procedures done, at least from what I've noticed.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_00: There's been an uptick, and a lot of times we're doing Botox, we're creating muscle.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_00: And so, how do you incorporate this into if you are somebody that loves aesthetic, you like getting your stuff done?
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_00: Is this something that you should stop doing everything a day on this routine for like 30 days and then see how you are?
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_00: How would you recommend people incorporate this in their everyday routines?
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it takes 90 days for truly visible, obvious changes.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_01: So it's not an overnight thing.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_01: It does take 90 days or so.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_01: And then, of course, longer term, you get better results.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_01: But we know that the lactobacillus roteri microbe, when restored, that provokes oxytocin release, that alone causes second explosion in dermal collagen, dramatic increased dermal collagen.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_01: We supplement collagen peptides because that's kind of the building blocks for increasing collagen.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_01: And many modern people, because they've been told to cut their fat, eat more healthy whole grains, and other things, have caused glycation or glucose modification of their collagen.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_01: Collagen is very susceptible to this process called glycation, and it makes the collagen brittle and inflexible, and your body resorbs it.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_01: And that's why people over time get brittle, crepey skin.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_01: Well, you can add to that collagen, rotari via oxytocin, collagen supplementation.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_01: It gives you a chance to do over to get more collagen in your dermal layer of skin.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_01: The hyaluronic acid causes water to be retained in the dermal layer.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_01: It's very good at that and has those microbiome effects that reduce inflammation and causes butyrate production that benefits the skin because butyrate is very essential for skin health.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_01: And then that acts the Xanthan, likewise, the anti-inflammatory effect.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_01: So we're seeing dramatic effects on skin.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_01: But the great thing is the ladies, this was a ladies' trial, but guys also take it and they tell us they're happier because the oxytocin they like their families better, they like their co-workers better.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_01: People say, you know, I introduced myself to strangers in line for coffee at Starbucks.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_01: That kind of anxiety some people get when they're in a social situation, that goes away because of the oxytocin.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_01: So seeing not just a skin and joints are big effects, but we're seeing all kinds of other.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's not a stretch to say that we're making people become better human beings, accepting the opinions of others, liking other people better, tolerating people better, being more generous, as well as being more youthful.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, exactly.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_00: And I agree with you.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_00: I really think that when it comes to like truly advanced science, that is what happens.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_00: You get a real overall effect.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_00: And this is where holistic medicine is, like you said, like we are in a weird place right now.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_00: And this is, I think, time to cross that line into the more holistic aspect of medicine because yeah, there is an overall effect.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_00: Like oxytocin is a hormone that women naturally produce after having sex, or when you're giving birth, it helps with birthing your child, and so many components are affected with hormones and especially things that are so key.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_00: So oxytocin for me, I feel like that's a whole ocean of information right there because I know it has an effect on cortisol, like we talked about that before.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_00: I know it works on so many different things, but to be able to modulate it in a way that is safe for the body, I think that's where this is so unique because people love finding out.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_00: I know that this hormone or this chemical does this.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_00: Let me bombard my body with that chemical.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_00: Or that molecule.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_00: But they don't understand that's not how physiology works.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like you have to go through the actual mechanisms of the body and what's living inside of the body to have it incorporate into your system.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_00: For example, through the bacteria are doing the work they're supposed to do, which is causing downstream effects.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_00: So it's just a very fascinating feel.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_00: I'm really excited about it.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_00: And I love that you're really spearheading this movement.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_00: It's very clear.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_01: Those are great points because it's becoming clear that a lack of oxytocin, which is a societal problem, I think, now, because if we've all lost rudder, this thing that causes release of oxytocin, if we all lost it, it makes people angry and intolerant and have a hard time accepting other people's opinions.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_01: But you raise an excellent point, and that is what happens in pregnancy and after delivery.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_01: Well, oxytocin, as you know, is instrumental in causing release of milk.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_01: So a lot of ladies, I think, who fail to breastfeed, about a third of the ladies who can't breastfeed, it may be due to lack of rotori and thereby oxytocin, also the appearance of postpartum depression.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_01: That may be all the same thing.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_01: The only thing I would caution ladies about is one thing we don't know.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_01: So everybody's supposed to have rotari.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_01: That's established fact, all of us.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_01: Children, infants, adults of any age.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_01: What we don't know is if we do it with, say, the yogurt where we get 300 billion counts, is that safe in pregnancy when the uterus has increased its oxytocin receptor density by about 200 fold in anticipation of having to deliver a child?
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_01: Is it safe then or will it provoke uterine contract?
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_01: We don't know.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_01: No, we haven't done that clinical drug.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_01: So I tell ladies, don't do that yogurt during pregnancy.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_01: Instead, what another way to do this so that you still get rotary, because you do need it, is do a mixed culture yogurt that is, doesn't have yogurt, but it doesn't have a dairy, could be coconut milk, could be other things.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_01: I I ferment salsas and hummus and all kinds of things and juices.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_01: But if you do the yogurt, buy a commercial yogurt with live cultures, maybe it's got two, three, four, or five other microbes, and co-ferment it with the rotary.
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_01: So just like having a backyard garden, if you're a 10 by 10 plot and you only grew tomatoes, you're gonna have a ton of tomatoes.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_01: Another year, what if you grew tomatoes and cucumbers and eggplant and zucchini, you'll have fewer tomatoes.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_01: So, same thing here.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_01: Do a mixed culture yogurt.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_01: That way, a woman can still get the rotari, but not achieve those super duper high counts like we do.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_00: You know, and also what this makes me think of is a lot of like eastern cultures as well.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_00: Because, like, I know, like in in Indian culture, like that's why I originally I'd asked you about curd because people in North India they make that every day.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_00: That's like a staple in their diet, is it's not exactly yogurt, it's curd.
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_00: And people live to be very old.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_00: My grandparents were like centennial when they passed, and and it's very common for people to live long lives in certain areas of the world where they've incorporated some sort of this type of different way of fermenting their yogurt product in their diet.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_00: So I know that there's a lot of other types of evidence that is really supporting this as well, as we look at cultures and societies and just how people eat in different parts of the world.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you're so right.
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_01: Fermented foods that most of us have neglected over our entire lifetimes are proving to be extremely powerful.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_01: So I encourage my readers to ferment vegetables, pickles, cucumbers, radishes, all kinds of things, as well as kefirs, kombucha, yogurts, of course.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_01: We make something called sacromyces ballardi sparkling juices.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_01: We take a commercial product called fluorostor, which is the yeast, sacramyces bilardi, we empty that one capsule into any volume of juice, provided the juice has no preservatives in it, like potassium sorbate or sodium benzoate, and then you let it sit on your kitchen counter for about 48 to 60 hours.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_01: It's amazing.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_01: It starts to bubble after 24 hours because it's producing so much CO2.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_01: You have to leave the cap on loosely or else it'll explode.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_01: But it makes a delicious sparkling cider.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_01: So if you used apple cider, for instance, you'll have apple soda.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_01: I do mango passion fruit.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_01: I get mango passion fruit soda, and this gives you a big wallap, big counts of this fungus that protects your microbiome.
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_01: It doesn't colonize the GI tract, but it nourishes other microbes.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_00: Oh wow, that's very interesting.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_00: Because yeah, I've never really tried anything that's like a drink kind of thing, but that sounds very cool.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_00: I think that we're, for me, with supplements and anything that has to do with like nourishing the microbiome, the conversation around prebiotics and probiotics and all, I think it's still very new because it's like I don't understand quite how that works because things pass so quickly through your GI tract.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_00: So that kind of component.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_00: But I know that there's a lot of benefit there.
• 32:21
  SPEAKER_00: And I think a lot of times when we're trying to nourish, just as common consumers, sometimes we damage as well.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I know a lot of people that drink, like, for example, a lot of juicing happens, you know, in their life and they're drinking these juices that are not-I mean, there's no nutrients in them, right?
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_00: But then you convince yourself that this is helping and this is gonna help my microbiome.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_00: But I think sometimes it's really about what you said-the garden analogy of just you gotta have a nice balance.
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_00: There needs to be a balance, and even though you're not pregnant, you should consider that because having a balanced microenvironment in any organ, that is going to lead to good things rather than one.
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_01: So you know, there's a husband-wife team at Stanford, Erica and Justin Sonnenberg, and they've done a great job of advancing our understanding of the role of fermented foods because it was a mystery for many years.
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_01: You know, fermented foods, these things you can ferment right on your kitchen counter, have species of microbes like leuconostoc mesenteroides or P.Cocus pendicaceous.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_01: And these are microbes that don't take up residence in a human GI tract.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_01: They just pass through.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_01: Well, how could they provide all kinds of incredible benefits?
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_01: Well, it's become clear what they do is as they pass through your GI tract from mouth to anus, they produce metabolites.
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_01: These are common metabolites like lactic acid and acetate that in turn nourish those important microbes and cause us to bloom into beneficial microbes that in turn nourish you, like through that butyrate fatty acid.
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_01: So, among the most important things all of our listeners and readers can do is to go back, just like our great-grandmothers did, and ferment foods.
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_01: Or if people don't want to do it themselves, I tell them you can now buy fermented pickles, fermented vegetables, kefirs, etc.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_01: When I do that, I like to leave it on the kitchen counter for at least 42 to 72 hours additional because commercial production is all about going as fast as possible.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_01: So they often don't allow enough time.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_01: So I leave these things out in the kitchen counter.
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_01: People say it's gonna go rotten.
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_01: No, it's fermentation is kind of a controlled rot.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_01: That's what we're doing.
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, I know it is.
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_00: And it's interesting that it's been around for so many centuries as well.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's another component of all this is it actually brings a lot of history back up.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_00: It's when we talk about these things that are now coming up.
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_00: Like I know a lot of Asian cultures have fermented their foods for a very long time, and now we're seeing it in topical products as well.
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_00: Like people are saying fermented essence for your face, put it on your face, and it's going to help you with just a skin barrier and all of this.
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_00: And so there's a lot of talk around that now, but I just feel like a lot of times history keeps repeating itself with these discoveries, you know?
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_01: So I know you have an interest in skin health.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_01: And I think what we're also kind of talking about is this new appreciation.
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_01: So, of course, ladies are really good at understanding topical products, but it's oral products that also have a big role.
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_01: So this whole new world of so-called neutracosmetics, things you can ingest orally.
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_01: I see ladies paying lots of money for hyaluronic acid serums, put around their eyes, but I point out to them it's great.
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_01: It does help.
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_01: But did it make the skin in your abdomen or your thighs better?
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_01: No, of course not.
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_01: It's a local application.
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_01: Well, what if you take the hyaluronic acid orally will improve skin body wide and your joints and your arteries and your brain?
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_01: So I think what we're doing here by coming at this from a skin perspective is we're really restoring so many facets of health via this oral route.
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_00: And I think this is the next wave.
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_00: I think this is where consumers are headed, if I'm honest, from what I've observed, at least in the way that industry is going, is that as consumers, we're becoming a little saturated, a little fed up, just topical, topical, topical, topical.
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's just becoming a little much.
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_00: And I think a lot of people are on that page.
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_00: You want real options, real therapies.
• 35:49
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I always said in the beginning of this show when I started it, I think one of my first episodes, Dr.
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_00: Davis, was about why do we keep doing the same thing over and over again, wishing for a better outcome?
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_00: Why do we keep doing that?
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_00: And we're still there many years later.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_00: And I think now, though, consumers are coming around, they're realizing that beauty is inside out.
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_00: That's the bottom line.
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_00: Like your body, it's a whole system, you know, it's not an isolation of tissues, it's a whole system, and you have to approach it like that.
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_00: We have to take care of ourselves, and what that means now is so different than what it meant like 10 years ago, even like taking care of yourself.
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_00: If you can take something that's going to balance your overall microbiome in your body, which is then gonna impact so many cascades, so many pathways and different organs and different ways.
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_00: Why wouldn't you do that rather than spend like thousands of dollars on moisturizer?
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_00: It's just the same thing.
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_00: I always say this we're not buying products, we're buying packaging.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_00: You know, like that's that's where we're headed.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_00: So, this is very novel and it's very interesting to me.
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_00: I love that you're behind this, and I love that you're doing this, and thank you for educating me and everybody on this topic because I think there needs to be a lot more of that.
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_00: So, truly thank you.
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for listening, and thanks for taking an interest.
• 37:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, this has been a really great conversation.
• 37:03
  SPEAKER_00: And for everyone tuning in, if you guys have any questions, I know a lot of topics were discussed today.
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_00: Please chime in, let us know.
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_00: And you have any questions, we'll pass them to Dr.
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_00: Davis's team and see if we can get more answers, or maybe you could come back for another one if you're if you have time, Dr.
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_00: Davis.
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, be happy to.
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_00: Awesome.
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much.
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 37:20
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